From the Street:
Manhattan Housing Inventory Vanishes
In the tiny island of Manhattan, supply of homes has always been limited and homeownership has been the privilege of a lucky few.
But the supply-demand dynamic in the city is now so out of whack that even a million dollars in the bank and pristine credit doesn’t do you much good.
Buyers who are re-entering the housing market after waiting on the sidelines for so long are waking up to the cold reality that there are few homes left to buy.
“The market is absolutely insane,” says Jacky Teplitzky, managing director at Douglas Elliman Real Estate. “It has completely changed in the last five weeks. There is just no inventory.”
…
The absorption rate — the number of months it would take to sell the amount of listings in the market at the current sales pace — fell to 5.5 months at the end of the fourth quarter of 2012, compared to the 10-year average of 9.3 months. Listings have dropped even further since then in the early months of January and February.
…
Doug Perlson, CEO of online real estate company RealDirect.com says prices are on the rise with bidding wars among buyers starting to drive offers above the asking price. “It is amazing how in such a relatively short time, Manhattan has gone from a neutral [housing] market to a buyers’ market to a sellers’ market now because of a lack of inventory. It is frustrating for buyers who have been sitting out for so long only to find out that there is nothing left.”
…
Supply of homes has plunged nationally for a number of reasons. New home construction came to a standstill following the bust. Foreclosure activity has declined reducing the inventory of existing homes in the market. Some homeowners cannot sell their homes because they continue to owe more than their homes are worth. Others can’t sell because they can’t qualify for the loan they would need to “trade up” to a bigger home, owing to tight credit conditions.In Manhattan, however, there are other factors at play. Unlike the rest of the country, there are relatively fewer underwater borrowers in the city and foreclosures are also low.
…
The real reason why there are not enough listings, he says, is because potential sellers are staying put in their homes due to lack of supply. “When sellers sell, they become buyers or renters,” says Miller. “If you are a homeowner and you want to trade up, but can’t find anything to buy, even though you still have plenty of equity in your home, what do you do? Nothing.” says Miller.Perlson of RealDirect.com says the inability to trade up to larger homes has dramatically reduced the supply of middle-tier housing, effectively freezing the market.
…
Are there concerns of a brewing bubble? “We are still in a rational housing market,” says Kathy Braddock, co-founder of Rutenberg Realty. “Everything is not flying off the shelf. When you hit the sweet spot, you get multiple offers. But there is no stupid money.”Miller does worry that prices might be rising a little too quickly in some areas, but believes that buyers this time are a little more cautious. “Back then [in the boom], buyers were panicked. This time they are more skeptical and less willing to become totally irrational. But if inventory continues to fall and the economy improves a little bit, that could change,” he warns.
A different point of view, from MarketPlace (APM):
I heart New Jersey… despite its high property taxes
New Jersey has the highest property taxes of any state in the U.S. I own a row house with a postage-sized stamp yard in the town of Collingswood, and I pay about $5,000 a year in property tax.
On paper, living in Collingswood looks like an unwise financial decision. But consider the alternatives:
I could pay a fifth of my current property taxes if I moved over the bridge to Philadelphia. But then I’d have to pay taxes on my wages, a business tax since I’m self-employed, plus pony up for a business license. These are all things I don’t have to pay in Collingswood.
OK, so I could move to a suburb of Philadelphia. My sister and her husband live in one, and she pays for trash and recycling pick up, which are services included in my taxes. Plus, she’s considering private school for her two sons because the area’s schools aren’t great. Ka-ching!
Sure, I could pick up and move to Florida, where I went to college. But then I’d be whacked with a 7 percent sales tax on things like clothing, unprepared food, medicines, and household paper products. New Jersey’s tax on those items? Zero.
My point is this: It’s not all about dollars and cents when it comes to where you live. Collingswood is a small friendly town, with an active downtown, a farmer’s market, and a commuter train to Philadelphia. Our streets are tree lined, our crime levels low. My dog has a backyard. My family is here. I have dug roots in deep. Could I save a few bucks by moving across the bridge? Perhaps. Would I rather pay less in property taxes? Of course. But for my own slice of Garden State heaven, those bucks are worth it.
In honor of the lumber dude from years back, from the WSJ:
Plywood Becomes Hot Item in Housing Recovery
Here’s the best sign yet that the U.S. housing market is recovering: plywood.
Growing demand and tight supplies have pushed up plywood prices by 45% in the past year, and U.S. producers are scrambling to get back up to speed after slashing output of the basic construction material during the housing bust.
Great time to be rich, from the NYT:
Well Before Summer, Hamptons Luxury Real Estate Is Scorching
Harald Grant, a senior vice president of Sotheby’s International Realty, has already rented out an oceanfront house in Southampton for $550,000 for the month of August alone and has a stack of 14 contracts and purchase memos on his desk representing pending sales of $4.5 million to $25 million. Not to worry: the most expensive oceanfront property in the Hamptons, on East Hampton’s Lily Pond Lane and co-listed by Tim Davis of the Corcoran Group and Diane Saatchi of Saunders & Associates, is still available for $40 million.
For high-rolling renters, Mr. Grant has a trio of oceanfront rentals in Southampton that can be had for the summer for $400,000, $600,000 or $800,000. Why pay $25 million to buy, and more to maintain, a summer getaway when you can rent and run? Or, for a million or so, you can rent year round.
“But in general what’s different this season,” Mr. Grant said, “is that in the mind of most buyers, less is more, and nobody wants to be the king of the hill and flaunt their wealth the way people were doing before the recession.
“Folks who spent $20,000 for a month’s rental,” he continued, “may be looking to spend $15,000. Folks who could be driving a Rolls-Royce are settling for a Mercedes. People aren’t saying, ‘I have to have it; I’ll pay anything,’ and writing checks on the spot. An owner who says, ‘I want $32 million for my oceanfront house’ probably isn’t going to get it. He’ll get somewhere in the mid-20s.”
Good Morning New Jersey
Legend has it, there are some carpenters who still make decks out of wood.
For folks that think washing a deck once a year is “maintenance” or a “hassle”, I honestly don’t know what they’d do with cedar. Burn it down probably, maybe tear off the decking and install composite. I agree, nothing beats the real stuff, but nothing is worse than the maintenance required with the real stuff.
Strip, sand and restain at least every 7 years, more likely every 5 years, in addition to at least the same annual wash a composite deck would need. To keep it looking good, some folks retreat as often as every other year. Until the point at which it gets so bad they slather on some of that ugly textured deck coating paint. Usually I find PT or Cedar decks just get neglected to the point at which they continually just look dirty, thus requiring no annual maintenance … well until the decking starts falling apart. I’d wager a bet and say about 2 in 10 cedar or PT decks still look good 10 years later. And people bitch about composite fading or getting chalky 10 years after installation?
This is the reason folks will spend a small fortune on Ipe if they want a real wood deck, but you still need to treat with oil annually to keep it looking good. Now, if you are a treehugger, you might not be so keen on the fact that they are clear cutting rainforest to get it. Most composites are at least 50% recycled material, some go as high as 95% recycled material.
Would be a huge waste of some very precious wood to install an IPE deck for someone who just neglects it to the point that the decking turns into garbage.
grim, i had a bad experience with some cabot stain on my cedar deck I built a few years back. I too was going for the “grey” to match the vinyl siding, but the stain did not absorb well, the deck always looked “dirty”. Never again. Next cedar deck I do, no color stains/sealer. Anyone have a product they used on cedar they liked?
BTW, I had the cedar shipped in from Oregon, and even though I paid about $300 to ship it, was still significantly cheaper than any lumberyard in the area. The markup out here is def high. I know I think I saved around 20% at the time. Knotty, but the boards were beautiful. Can’t beat the joy of working with cedar.
but the stain did not absorb well
You either stained too quickly, when the cedar didn’t have sufficient time to dry out, or you waited too long, after the surface had already began to oxidize. There is a optimal window for best result. Want to know the sign of a good cedar deck builder? Did he show up 4 or 5 times with a moisture meter, test the deck, and say “Nope, not today.” Occasionally you’ll have some challenges if you had palleted decking with strongly varying levels of moisture in the decking.
Anyone have a product they used on cedar they liked?
Almost irrelevant given the change in formulations to meet low-VOC regulations. Something that you used 5 years ago, and was great … well … it doesn’t exist anymore. The can might look the same, but give it a turn to the side and look for the new VOC emissions data.
By the way, the cedar you buy today is very, very different from the cedar of years back. All of the old growth cedar is gone, and decking is all new/young cedar. Why does this matter? Because the oily weather resistant cedar was old growth heartwood, that’s why it lasted so long. The new stuff, while still technically “cedar”, is different all together. In the old days, nobody gave a thought about felling an 800 year old cedar to make shakes.
“If you are a homeowner and you want to trade up, but can’t find anything to buy, even though you still have plenty of equity in your home, what do you do? Nothing.”
Any questions?
[1]. Grim,
Not so different a view. NJ has its appeal and is great for many. If it wasn’t, no one would stay and taxes would be low. But it isn’t for everyone. While I liked NJ in many respects, it did not work for us. Are there things I miss? Hell yeah. But the move wasn’t done for my benefit.
And, frankly, there are things I don’t miss like high taxes for allegedly blue ribbons schools that aren’t. IMHO, the new school in UCFSD blows the Brigadoon school district away. And we aren’t supporting armies of unneeded cops either. In fact, most townships here don’t have their own police. Finally, those costs the author said she avoids weren’t avoided in the Brig, and they were more expensive.
To each their own, I guess.
Re: Patio vs. deck: If my property were level, I’d frankly rather have had a patio. But to build a one-story-high patio would have meant some big honking concrete monolith and no way to get lawnmowers past it. The property slopes toward the back so the 1st floor kitchen is the 2nd floor in the back and the basement is ground level. So the raised deck was really the only option. I also have an old, cracked, tilted, settling concrete patio outside the basement, but to deal with that is some mid-five-figures of work — break it up, haul it away, level the ground, do a new retaining wall, then put in paver or stone. Not a DIY job by any stretch, certainly not for a 58-year-old under 5′ tall woman. We will see this summer how well we like the Clubhouse stuff. It’s got to be better than having nothing and having to go to outdoor cafes to eat outside on a nice day.
[123][prior], Fabius the black knight,
You don’t get it, or you do and you’re being obtuse intentionally. Okay, if you want rebuttal, it will have to wait until I don’t have the constant droning of young girls in my ear. Reminds me too much of you.
Nom
Just wondering;you mentioned about some towns not having cops,how fast does a cop comes if you call 911?Do they have integrated jurisdiction? Maybe that idea will work here in jersey.I know joint services has been proposed
FORTUNE — Despite higher taxes and worries over government spending cuts, consumers have surprisingly held on to their optimism. In February, they bought more of almost everything, from homes to groceries to clothes.
It’s easy to doubt the positive data, given all the economic headwinds today. After all, the payroll tax cut ended in January, taking $1,000 annually from the paychecks of a typical U.S. family earning $50,000. And the billions of dollars in federal spending cuts that kicked in on March 1 are expected to weigh on many households.
And yet, retail and home sales have been stronger than expected this year, as consumers slowly shake off worries about the economy. Sales of previously owned homes grew to the highest level in more than three years, rising 0.8% to a seasonally adjusted annual rate of 4.98 million, the National Association of Realtors reported Thursday. Similarly, retail sales rose 1.1% in February from the previous month.
If you still don’t believe how well consumers have held up, some on Wall Street point to a favorite economic indicator: Auto sales.
“They’ve held up well,” says Larry Kantor, head of research at Barclays, adding that vehicle sales are a better signal of the country’s economic health than most other indicators
Unlike retail and home sales, data on auto sales don’t get revised later as new economic data comes in, making it a more accurate real-time indicator. Plus, auto purchases are considered big-ticket items typically made after relatively careful thought about future income and payments. The fact that sales have continued climbing suggests consumers are confident enough to take on payments.
In February, U.S. auto sales rose 3.7% to 1.2 million. The rate of sales, seasonally adjusted, translates to a full year of sales of 15.38 million sold, according to Autodata Corp. General Motors (GM) led the way with 224,314 vehicles sold, up 7% from a year earlier. Ford (F) followed with 195,822, up 9%. Toyota (TM) and Chrysler both saw sales rise 4% during the same period
Bears Fan,
Be careful with cedar. Many on the woodworking forums are very careful with cedar and some other woods. Use the right protection as it can be toxic.
http://www.rightdiagnosis.com/w/woodworkers_lung_cedar_dust/intro.htm
1:
“OK, so I could move to a suburb of Philadelphia. My sister and her husband live in one, and she pays for trash and recycling pick up, which are services included in my taxes. Plus, she’s considering private school for her two sons because the area’s schools aren’t great. Ka-ching!”
Collingswood High School comes in at 267 of 328 on the NJ Monthly magazine ratings, so I bet a lot of Collingswood parents are considering private school also.
Re #1; And Collingswood is being annexed by Camden. If you live in CW on the wrong side of Route 30, better have home defense. I love it when one street thinks its safe because the murders occur one whole block away. Then again, the murder rate across the river is much worse.
The entire world dreams of a place in Manhattan and a summer home in the Hamptons.
What a suprise with a huge bull stock AND bond market with all time low mortgage rates want to buy in these two places. Plus RE taxes are pretty low. A million dollar home in Hamptons often only pays 2k a year property tax.
And unlike Jersey and Nassau County Hamptons and Manhattan RE investments are actually investments, something you buy to make money.
Housing in NJ, Nassau County, Staten Island are not investments, they are usually just a pile of dirt you buy to throw money in for 30 years.
if being 58 and under 5 feet prevents you from doing an hard work how do you own a restaurant?
Jill says:
March 23, 2013 at 10:39 am
Re: Patio vs. deck: If my property were level, I’d frankly rather have had a patio. But to build a one-story-high patio would have meant some big honking concrete monolith and no way to get lawnmowers past it. The property slopes toward the back so the 1st floor kitchen is the 2nd floor in the back and the basement is ground level. So the raised deck was really the only option. I also have an old, cracked, tilted, settling concrete patio outside the basement, but to deal with that is some mid-five-figures of work — break it up, haul it away, level the ground, do a new retaining wall, then put in paver or stone. Not a DIY job by any stretch, certainly not for a 58-year-old under 5′ tall woman. We will see this summer how well we like the Clubhouse stuff. It’s got to be better than having nothing and having to go to outdoor cafes to eat outside on a nice day.
Jj posting on a weekend?
#11 Eddie Ray
Why bother. Why don’t I go back to ignoring you and you can continue with your self-righteous indignation.
#7 grim
For my cabin I used Douglas Fir, slightly cheaper than IPE, but again you have the second generation cuts and seasoning issues. Another interesting material is Poplar. If you can blend the green tinge into the landscape it is really beautiful.
Fast Eddie , today I had a taste of the medicine you have been subjected to, only in Morris County. Looked at 4 houses, same story in each. Original owner in home, 1969-1975. Kids recently graduated . Crappy replacement windows or original ones, original rotted siding and doors, 1970 tile, 1985 furnace, cracked driveways. All but one had new granite countertops but with old painted cabinets. Prices just under 4 handle, this is Long Valley. 500 k is the next bracket I will look into. These are not big homes either as I don’t need/want more than 1700 sq/ft. Everything was a dump. I am seriously considering liquidating my 403b completely, paying the taxes on it and giving it to the second half so I don’t have to hear the constant complaining and droning about how miserable her life is. NJ is a toxic state.
#18: Where in earth did you get the idea I own a restaurant?
Re: NJ
They forgot to mention some of the best fishing in the world. You just cant beat it.
1. 100 miles out to the Canyon.
2. Expanding inshore reefs.
3. Migratory striped bass 2x a year.
4. Well maintained inlets with a back bay for days that are too rough outside.
I hammer NJ for its faults but every now and again I have to give it a compliment. Other than family thats what keeps me here.
Juice is soon to be a homeowner aka bagholder.
Made an offer today and was accepted. 3k sqf ft completely updated home that was put on the market last night and my offer accepted this afternoon.
How does 3.68 for a mortgage sound? Should I dump Chase and call a broker?
Any help appreciated.
He mistook you for Joyce.
Jill says:
March 23, 2013 at 4:18 pm
#18: Where in earth did you get the idea I own a restaurant?
[main story] – Yep, this is the wash-in.
That threw me for a loop too. I had to do a double-take to make sure I wasn’t reading yesterday’s posts.
yome says:
March 23, 2013 at 3:29 pm
Jj posting on a weekend?
Most of New Jersey is two hours from the shore, two hours from the mountains, two hours from city. New Jersey – two hours from all the places you’d rather be.
[20] black knight,
“Why bother. Why don’t I go back to ignoring you”
You promise? Thanks!
Seriously, it is a decent amount of work to rebut thoroughly the opinion and cherry-picked evidence of a zealot. I used to do a fair amount of it, and the work product always had to be bulletproof. Here, the expressed opinion that “GWB threw the 4th amendment under the bus” is both broad and vague. A balanced, researched rebuttal isn’t something that one just whips off the cuff. It is akin to proving a negative and it takes some time and effort, the former being a somewhat scarce resource during tax season. Hence my insistence that you either wait for it or pay for it.
And as I’ve said before, I hold out no hope of convincing you nor would I try; it would be to convince everyone else. And frankly, that has no priority when I’m otherwise busy.
[12] yome,
State police provide coverage in much of the area west of West Chester. Exception are the cities and Kennett borough. Also Birmingham has police but Route 202 goes through it, providing much revenue. I don’t want to know what response times are but the staties are thorough. I got a visit last week to see if I had seen anything unusual after a gate on a closed road had been opened a few times by people cutting off the chain.
Fire coverage comes from a force covering three towns.
Three towns near me have a joint police force. One town is much wealthier than the others and the arrangement almost wasn’t renewed this year because the smallest town couldn’t justify the nut–much easier for the wealthy town to have a robust force.
Eddie [8];
Market prices will recover, whether by inflation (my contention) or the simple ebb and flow of market cycles — buyers are fatigued and coming out of their bunkers, and thanks in part to Marx brothers-like market intervention by government (el HARP-O), there’s nothing for them to buy, so good listing go quickly in bidding wars (even if the baseline is adjusted from 2007).
Putting all that aside, the housing stock isn’t getting any younger. Aside from small bits of in-fill construction, and the occasional tear-down, the houses are only getting older. For better or worse, the market has priced that in already.
7 – grim, thanks for the info. I’m actually a fairly proficient woodworker, but did not consider the moisture content specifically. I waited for a few consecutive dry days. Next time I will heed your knowledge.
25 – Juice, nice, best of luck. Same town as some of your more recent postings?
Bears – thanks yes we moved fast same place ZIP, sellers were motivated. house was updated and my kids will now live a life that I could only dream of….for a Bronx boy like me. We will be happy overpaying. Do the same.
Juice…..
JB – funny u say that, we hit a few today in the town next door west, and are prepping 2 offers. I had to place a call into Bob Farrelly’s office for another pre-approval (been awhile), and will be getting that done monday morning. I’ll take your good fortune as a good omen for me.
I get a daily list of the county, by chance, is your potential new street start with the letter “E”?
Bears – nope call me 201-694-2430 now.
Juice
JB – ok, u bet.
Sounds like its going to be a busy BBQ season.
Grim – Bears called, he is coming to the party on horseback from Colts Neck.
Tough finding a sober moment from an Irish guy on a weekend.
chicagofinance says:
March 23, 2013 at 7:01 pm
He mistook you for Joyce.
Jill says:
March 23, 2013 at 4:18 pm
#18: Where in earth did you get the idea I own a restaurant?
I find that when I’m sober, guns are much less interesting.
40 – yes, Juice and I rapped some tonight. He was definitely enjoying his evening :)
JB, appreciate the chat. My continued best wishes on your pending purchase.
State treasury particularly happy this morning, someone from NJ won the $300m Powerball. Christie called, he asked me to relay a message: “F*ck you, pay me.”
#9 Comrade
I agree. I am a teacher and know first hand about Blue Ribbon status-my school has it. All you need to do is fill out the very expanive an specific paperwork properly. No one checks to see if what you are claiming is 100% true. They weed out the applications by eliminating those who filled it out wrong. Public and private schools all teach to the test anyway. It doesn’t show how great the school is. it just teaches the kids how to take the test and ace it so your school looks better than the others. Shame, shame.
I went to the movies with my daughter Friday night. I bought two tickets (she gets charged as an adult now :( ), popcorn, and drinks. It cost me almost $50. The movie sucked to boot. I went into Kohl’s yestarday and had to walk out because the line was around and down the aisle. I went into Macy’s (which isn’t as expensive as it used to be) and walked right up to the register to pay-no line. I hate Kohl’s stuff, but it is much less expensive and people are shopping there more now than I have ever seen. It is not just prices of houses and property taxes, it is everything. How do you save for the future? Or does everyone just plan to wing it when they retire?
Americans appear to have done a great job deleveraging, either by pulling back and spending and focusing on debt service, or simply by getting shaken out of a situation they shouldn’t have been in (foreclosures, short sales). Don’t forget, even in the negative case of a foreclosure, it’s a net positive for consumers as debt service is dramatically reduced.
We’ve gone completely 180′ with regards to debt in the US. Mortgage burden is lower than it was in the late 90s, a period many regard as being a “normal” market.
So are they spending at Kohl’s because they can’t afford Macy’s, or are they spending at Kohl’s because they are being more frugal with regards to adding debt?
From Reuters:
Household debt burden hits record low, a positive spending sign
A measure of the burden of U.S. household debt sank to a record low in the fourth quarter, offering more evidence of improving household finances that should lend support to consumer spending and the economy.
The household debt-service ratio – an estimate of the share of debt payments to disposable personal income – fell to 10.38 percent, the Federal Reserve said on Wednesday.
That was the lowest since the series started in 1980. In comparison, the ratio, which takes into account outstanding mortgage and consumer debt, was 10.56 percent in the third quarter. It peaked in the third quarter of 2007, shortly before the U.S. economy fell into recession.
…
An even broader measure of financial obligations that includes automobile lease payments and the cost of renting a home also fell in the fourth quarter, dropping to 15.48 percent of disposable income – the lowest level since the third quarter of 1981.
That drop reflected an easier burden for homeowners as mortgage debt payments dropped to 8.67 percent of disposable income in the fourth quarter, the lowest in nearly 13 years.
Natasha [45];
Kind of jives with my experience of the Education Industrial Complex generally — no gives a sh!t if the answer is right, everybody gets a gold star who fills out the proper forms correctly in triplicate. The system is designed to breed compliance.
Oh yeah, and the unions run the show. ‘Fnck you, pay me’; ‘kill the fat man’, and all that…
Come on Grim, what are you talking about? People don’t know how to stop adding to their debt. They buy at cheaper stores because they don’t have the money anymore. IJ don’t care what the media claims, take a look around you at the people in your life. They are the best way to determine what is really going on. Family and friends who used to take yearly vacations can’t anymore-not out of choice but necessity. They spend more time at home-eat out less often, etc, etc. Not because they are saving money, but because they don’t have the extra money.
That drop reflected an easier burden for homeowners as mortgage debt payments dropped to 8.67 percent of disposable income in the fourth quarter, the lowest in nearly 13 years.
When you’re bankrupt and have nothing left, one doesn’t have a mortgage debt payment any longer. It’s like not being counted in the unemployment stats because you stopped looking for a job and/or fell off the gravy wagon.
I still want to know what people are going to do when they retire? I know what my parents were able to do, but what are the people who are now in their 20s-40s going to do when they retire? Where is their money coming from? Are they counting on their house to pay for retirement? Bad move if that’s the case. I know more people who have been effected by lay offs and cut backs than the opposite scenario.
No one will retire. Work until your sad ass drops dead. Haul your carcass away, and plug another drone into your spot.
I have no plans to retire (by choice). Never did. My dad decided to semi-retire at age 81 and had a massive stroke less than two days later.
Western civilization is on the brink of collapse.
#52
My dad watched coworkers do the same as your dad. My dad decided to retire at 62 and enjoy his life until 82 when he died. He left my mom comfortable and able to live out the rest of her life without worry. I plan to work past 62, hopefully not out of necessity, but out of boredom. But the next question-who will give us jobs when we are old and grey if we have to work? I don’t see a whole lot of seniors working out there right now.
53. If that’s the case then we may as well enjoy barbecue season while we can. Smile!
Some of you on this site are just too young to understand what normal looks like in terms of the economy. We are headed towards some rocky times ahead. The writing is on the wall. A little common sense is all you need to see it all clearly.
effected=affected
used to texting and auto spell correct :)
natasha (54)-
I think that on a macro level, seniors working past retirement age are crowding younger people out of the jobs market right now.
I think that on a macro level, seniors working past retirement age are crowding younger people out of the jobs market right now.
Nonsense! There’s bidding wars going on by young, budding families with hefty salaries wearing mauve colored glasses! We’re prestigious here!
#59
It is the dirt! Don’t you understand? It has gold flecks and diamond chips in it. The dirt will save everyone from poverty. The dirt will fund their retirement. People from all over will flock here to buy the dirt because it is so special and unlike any other dirt anywhere else.
Natasha [54];
I don’t see a whole lot of seniors working out there right now.
I think that there are more of them out there than there used to be. In any case, the seniors who are retired today have the tailwind of SS income — anyone under 55 today won’t have that. Many will be forced to continue working.
For most, work is less physical than it ever was. There’s no reason a middle manager can’t keep pushing papers or compiling reports well into their 70’s.
It also depends on how you view your work vs. what else you’d like to do with your time. I enjoy many core aspects of my job, and fully plan ‘retirement’ to be a part-time proposition until health dictates otherwise.
#61 Anon
I agree with you, but what worries me is the employers. Will they want people in their 70’s or will they opt for the youngsters.
Natasha [62];
I’m a W2 employee and most would consider me to have a job and an employer.
In my case I sell services. It just so happens I have one large client who buys wholesale and resells. But if push came to shove I could and would stop outsourcing my resale function and market myself — also taking up administration, billing, collections, etc. I’d also collect the premium that my ’employer’ currently does in exchange for the discount and margin they enjoy.
I see your point, however, and for most its a race to the bottom. Younger, hungrier entrants will work for less on the promise or expectation that they will one day be paid like the old-timers. In fact, that will never materialize, but the employers will take full advantage.
Anon
Exactly!
Moose,
Younger, hungrier entrants will work for less on the promise or expectation that they will one day be paid like the old-timers. In fact, that will never materialize, but the employers will take full advantage.
But… but… how will they fund their retirement and still look prestigious?
IJ don’t care what the media claims, take a look around you at the people in your life.
The data comes from the Federal Reserve, are you saying it’s not credible because Reuters reported on it, or because the Fed is just making up numbers?
That said, how are your household finances? Do you have less debt today than you did in 2000? What about net worth? Investment accounts? Retirement accounts? Or are you the rare exception?
Some of you on this site are just too young to understand what normal looks like in terms of the economy. We are headed towards some rocky times ahead.
Yeah yeah, walked 6 miles to school every morning, in the snow, uphill – both ways. I’d argue that the Gen X’ers have a much more accurate worldview than the boomers ever did. If anyone’s perception has been clouded by the post ww2 geo-economic trends (trends that are not likely to play out again in the near future), its the boomers, not us youngins. A good percentage of us younger X’ers have spend our entire working careers in a recessionary environment, first the dot com bust, and now the credit bust, blown away 401ks and investment accounts. Hard times is all there are.
I know what my parents were able to do, but what are the people who are now in their 20s-40s going to do when they retire? Where is their money coming from?
Savings? Investment? Fidelity reported last month that 401k balances had hit record highs. Average balance by age group was $120k for boomers, and just under $60k for gen x’ers. On the Gen X’er side, I’d say at multiply that number by at least 1.75 to get an accurate view, and really, most of is younger gen x’ers are now working to fund two 401ks (and in some cases IRAs as well). On the boomer side, I’d say that number is closer to 1. So, I wouldn’t at all be surprised to hear that Gen X’ers have combined 401ks that are exceeding boomer retirement funds in the next few years.
I think that on a macro level, seniors working past retirement age are crowding younger people out of the jobs market right now.
Again, the Boomer Locusts ™ (credit to Moose) take more than their share and leave a wasteland in it’s place.
My spouse retired at 51(I was 46). After 9/11 and a brain aneurysm he decided to get off of the NYSE. We sold the seat, the big house, the Vermont ski condo and downsized to a house 1/7 th the price of our other house for cash.We paid for our kids Ivy education and weddings for cash. I still have my business, that I don’t consider work, doing backstage catering. We don’t spend nearly as much as we used to, you spend the first half of your life accumulating things and then the next half getting rid of them. I don’t miss any of our stuff. Sometimes at holidays I miss the big house where extended family would gather. We travel a lot. We go to the beach a lot. We’ve been able take in and give care to our elderly relatives as they pass from this world.
We’ve taken some hits with stock market investments because we didn’t believe that Bernanke and the banksters would be hellbent on kicking the can down the road this long (We should have followed JJ’s investments). The one investment I made was becoming a partner in a small spa out in Utah that needed seed money to expand. They opened a spa in Malibu and hooked up with NBC and Reveille and became The Biggest Loser! So as long as people keep stuffing themselves with pork rinds we’ll be OK!
We don’t worry about property taxes as much as health insurance. We have Blue Cross Blue Shield and pay $2500 a month for an HMO and they raise the premiums over $100 a month every year. With Obamacare next year we’ve been warned that it will be raised even more. Hubby is thinking of getting a job until he’s 65 just so we can get group health insurance.
The data comes from the Federal Reserve, are you saying it’s not credible
Yeah, that is exactly what I am saying. Young and naive if you believe everything the Fed Gov tells you. Yes, we are from the Government and we are here to help. Got my Bomma phone how “bout you?
That said, how are your household finances? Do you have less debt today than you did in 2000? What about net worth? Investment accounts? Retirement accounts? Or are you the rare exception
My situation has nothing to do with anyone or anything except my own doing. My household finances and my net worth was what I worked towards and what I chose to invest in. My father did it all by himself and he taught me well. My husband educated himself on investing and made the right choices. If we are in good shape it is because we were careful and did without All the wants All the time.
Fidelity reported last month that 401k balances had hit record highs
All this tells you is that the 401k’s that exist have hit record highs. There are a whole lot of people out there who DON’T HAVE a 401k at all. What are they going to do? Oh, that’s right, we will support them.
And I didn’t walk 6 miles-only 1/2 mile, and it wasn’t up hill-that was my mom’s generation.
Still getting used to navigating and screwed up the italics :(
slash first
#60 Natasha
The dirt will fund their retirement.
Yeah, that’s kind of what I gathered while home shopping this weekend. Unfortunately I am having a hard enough time funding my own retirement let alone that of someone else. My house is just about paid off and my taxes are low. I want to gradually maintain/improve where I live. Second half has other ideas. I am not about to buy another house unless it’s a good deal. One thing I have to say about JJ, he does not seem to buy/invest in anything that does not increase in value/ make money for him. I find it hard to argue with that strategy.
71 Phoenix
Sounds a little like me, I am ready to improve what I have. We are not done paying our mortgage and our taxes suck, but that is the whole state pretty much. But I don’t need to move and add extra expenses to my life. I like the comfort of knowing I am in good shape.
Savings? Investment? Fidelity reported last month that 401k balances had hit record highs.
Tell that to Trudy and Biff who bought an overpriced piece of sh1t in Allendale and are two paychecks away from Alpo casserole.
Fast Eddie.
Estate tool sale 630 Sargent Rd, Rivervale, NJ 07675 with the amount of tools it looked like a plumber, mechanic or general contractor, very old school and very neat. I didn’t tour the inside of the house. Probably 3/2 with finished basement and a pool. Nice big lot.
Worth a knock on the door on a letter in the mail.
Fabius,
Thanks for the info!
grim #66: Not all of us. I’ve felt the wolf was at the door since I started working after graduating college in 1977. I got out of high school into the first Arab oil embargo and college right into the second. Unlike most of my peers, who stayed home with Mom ‘n’ dad, I moved out a year after graduating, while I was working in retail (sociology major who had decided against grad school for social work). I couldn’t afford a house till age 40, wasn’t able to start putting money away until maybe 1985. Now I didn’t have kids, which has allowed me to be in pretty good shape at this point. I never took equity loans; just saved for home improvements until I could afford them.
It all depends on what your perspective is. When I was working at S&P in the 80’s, all of my peers were being pragmatic about money and it was those who were in their 20’s then — the early X-ers, who were the Gordon Gekko worshippers who voted for Reagan. Maybe it was just that all my friends were hippies and sci-fi nerds.
Estate tool sale 630 Sargent Rd, Rivervale, NJ 07675
Already under contract, last ask was $475,900.
#77 grim
Curious on the DOM?
Went ARIP at 109 days on market (Jan 3rd). Estimated closing date is tomorrow.
Anything good left on the tools? It might be worth going back knowing they are closing sometime next week most likely.
Large air compressors one massive 5ft tall still in the crate with a $1800 price tag on it.
The guy had a very nice air tool set up, although it looks like the tools were gone.
Sears Radial Arm Saw.
5 wooden step ladders.
Oxy Bottle, selection of torches and lines.
Tool boxes
stone chisels
Chain and rope.
Assorted garden tools, pick axes and a nice old cast iron garden roller
If anyone’s interested, I still have a broken grenade launcher.
Really just looking for an edger, and maybe a power rake.
Grim,
Finally decided to pull a trigger and purchase something this year. Looking at Wayne.
Is it possible to have you as our agent? Thanks
Again, the Boomer Locusts ™ (credit to Moose) take more than their share and leave a wasteland in it’s place.
If you were a Boomer you would have done the same thing.
I am literally at the tail end of the Boomer generation, and I agree that they are greedy and selfish. Some people argue that the WWll generation was the best, but they raised and spoiled the Boomers, with the intention of giving their kids more than they had. The Boomers were taught to be self indulgent.
And again, if you were one of them you have done the same thing.
You’d be amazed how quickly you can edge with a grenade.
Rather, rake.
Yes. JJ is dumb
26.chicagofinance says:
March 23, 2013 at 7:01 pm
He mistook you for Joyce.
Jill says:
March 23, 2013 at 4:18 pm
#18: Where in earth did you get the idea I own a restaurant?