From the WSJ:
Foreclosure Haunts Next Home Purchase
Jumbo borrowers who went into foreclosure a few years ago are learning the hard way: You can’t go home again.
Affluent home buyers attempting to get back into real estate after defaulting on their home loan are finding that few lenders are willing to work with them. Those that do often impose long waiting periods, higher down payments and higher interest rates.
Since spring, lenders say they have increasingly been hearing from would-be buyers who went through foreclosure. “We get the calls routinely,” says Al Engel, executive vice president at Valley National Bank, based in Wayne, N.J.
Callers include self-employed borrowers whose income dropped during the recession, causing them to fall behind on their mortgages, but who have since financially recovered. Also affected are borrowers who walked away from their homes after their values plummeted and owed more on their mortgage than the house was worth. Now that home values have stopped falling in most housing markets, they want back in.
…
Borrowers who intentionally default—the ones who walked away from their homes—are less likely to be approved for another mortgage soon after. Lenders that originate private jumbos often follow guidelines set by Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, which require strategic defaulters to have re-established their credit profile for at least seven years after foreclosure in order to get a mortgage.But experts say more flexibility among lenders could emerge in the next year. A recent change allows certain borrowers to become eligible for mortgages backed by the Federal Housing Administration in as little as one year after their foreclosure. Previously the waiting period was at least three years. “This may be an influence on the private lenders to loosen a little bit on their waiting period,” says Daren Blomquist vice president at RealtyTrac.
Borrowers who overcame a financial hardship that was out of their control and improved their credit profile and are shopping for a mortgage should consider smaller lenders. Valley National Bank and Fremont Bank, which is based in the San Francisco Bay area, say they are open to working with some private jumbo applicants in as little as 2½ to three years, respectively, after the date of foreclosure.
I swear I had nothing to do with this. From CNN:
Cops: High-end bourbon heist likely an inside job
A bourbon heist at a high-end Kentucky distillery has left tongues wagging in elite whiskey circles and some small-town cops wondering whodunit.
The Buffalo Trace Distillery in Frankfort noticed this week that it was missing some of its 20-year-old Pappy Van Winkle, one of the rarest and most sought after bourbons in the world.
“It’s highly coveted,” said Franklin County Sheriff Pat Melton, the man leading the investigation. “It’s the best of the best.”
Melton said the distillery called him on Tuesday to report that 65 cases, or 195 bottles, of the high-end hard stuff were unaccounted for.
Nine cases of Pappy Van Winkle rye were also missing.
[1] grim
I advise you to remain silent and request your attorney once questioning starts.
where’s that dude who used to say “good morning NJ” every day? he hasn’t done it for a while.
That was Mike, I believe. Lurking probably. Which is where I must now go. Happy Friday, y’all.
Who would have thunk some lenders are gulp evaluating risk and are imposing standards on those who defaulted. Where is Obama this is not fair!
Affluent home buyers attempting to get back into real estate after defaulting on their home loan are finding that few lenders are willing to work with them. Those that do often impose long waiting periods, higher down payments and higher interest rates.
Perhaps the industry should have never granted a loan in the first place. But never fear, I’m confident the industry will find a way to dupe them a 2nd time.
If you are affluent, shouldn’t you be able to buy a home without a loan?
the typical SUV driver is much more of a hazard than the typical biker
http://blog.nj.com/njv_paul_mulshine/2013/10/dont_look_now_but_the_typical.html
HANNITY: Gloria, the media — you’re ticked off and feel the media has been unfair. I don’t — at this point in the incident, I don’t know what happened that led up to it and I don’t know if there is video that will come out that will show us. But I don’t see why the person in the car would ever run over anybody. I just can’t understand that part of it. Nor can I understand the end of it when the bikers chased them and broke open the window and beat the crap out of him.
ALLRED: Thank you for saying that, because here are the facts that we have uncovered, Sean, in our investigation. First of all, what is really not being talked about is what happened several miles before Edwin was run over. And what happened before, and we have evidence of this that law enforcement is certainly aware of or going to be aware of, is that the SUV was in the right lane several miles before, decided to move over to the center lane, hit a biker on — hit the motorcycle, kept going, and then several miles later hit a second biker on the motorcycle, and then ran over Edwin, her husband, crushing him under the SUV. Now, Edwin, by the way —
HANNITY: Because he was stopped at this point?
ALLRED: Edwin was standing there in front of the SUV trying to get everybody to move on, roll off, and basically calm down. Then, he took steps away to go back to his bike. And suddenly the SUV without warning crushes him, runs into him.
HANNITY: Was there intimidation going on?
ALLRED: No. And that is what is important, because Edwin had done nothing at all to the driver. He was standing there trying to help the situation. Therefore, the driver — look, even if the driver is in fear for some reason, and I don’t know why, because the video shows bikers getting on the bikes ready to roll off. But if he had some fear what he should have done is honk his horn so people know get out of the way, not just suddenly gun the motor, which is what the driver did, and then roll over and crush and change the lives not only of Edwin but of her and their two children forever.
HANNITY: We’re going to continue to have — a lot of people rush to judgment in these cases and I’m not going to do that. I want to hear other facts. I don’t see any intimidation at the time they’re stopped.
Street haven’t you got the memo real affluence in America is measured by how much access to debt you have. Money is for suckers.
Couldn’t have said it better myself . . .
“[Obamacare] is the greatest opportunity I’ve seen in my lifetime. It’s the first time we are seeing really fundamental changes happen. And there’s a lot of money that can be made as this chaos is sorted out,” said Lisa Suennen, the co-founder and managing member of Psilos Group, a health-care-focused venture capital firm. . . . ”
Back to lurking
10
Good to know you’re not making money off the govt.
Nom [10],
What does she mean there’s a lot of money to be made? Off the govt? From the taxpayers?
got Google?
Another high quality NY Post headline….
“Carnegie Deli boss ‘hid salami’ with tenant : suit”
http://www.northjersey.com/news/bergen/Ugly_paint_job_on_unfinished_American_Dream_complex_will_be_Super_Bowl_backdrop.html
Thundaar,
All we need to do is throw more taxpayer money down that rat hole. That will fix it.
16-Joyce
any talk of the American Dream makes me giggle.
joyce maybe a really big blue tarp with a super bowl logo on the side
So, in 1988, the Wall Street Journal decided to see if Malkiel’s theory would hold up, and created the Dartboard Contest.
How it worked: Wall Street Journal staffers, acting as the monkeys, threw darts at a stock table, while investment experts picked their own stocks. After six months, they compared the results of the two methods. The WSJ even solicited stock picks from some of its readers, and compared them, too.
After 100 contests, the results were in. From Investor Home’s great description of the contest:
On October 7, 1998 the Journal presented the results of the 100th dartboard contest. So who won the most contests and by how much? The pros won 61 of the 100 contests versus the darts. That’s better than the 50% that would be expected in an efficient market. On the other hand, the pros losing 39% of the time to a bunch of darts certainly could be viewed as somewhat of an embarrassment for the pros. Additionally, the performance of the pros versus the Dow Jones Industrial Average was less impressive. The pros barely edged the DJIA by a margin of 51 to 49 contests. In other words, simply investing passively in the Dow, an investor would have beaten the picks of the pros in roughly half the contests (that is, without even considering transactions costs or taxes for taxable investors).
The pro’s picks look more impressive when the actual returns of their stocks are compared with the dartboard and DJIA returns. The pros average gain was 10.8% versus 4.5% for the darts and 6.8% for the DJIA.
15 – You’ll have the unfinished American Dream mall, route 3 under construction….and no NY team even in the superbowl. Why are we doing this again?
Spartacus,
The problem is that people tended to buy the expert’s darts, so their picks were to some extent self-fulfilling prophecies. 6 months is probably too short a time period to eliminate that follow the leader effect.
I believe the Jets will get to superbowl this year it will be at home, they will be up 28 points in the second half, tickets will be going for an all time record. They late in the 4th Q the other team will do the greatest come back in the history of the NFL while a massive blizzard is coming, the jets lose and as fans head out to cars they realize they are trapped and it is Katrina and the New Orleans Saints stadium all over again this time with mass freezing with dozens of jets fans dying that night of exposure.
The Jets will not let their fans off easy like Giants just losing a bunch in a row they have to crush them in the mightest of ways
Street Justice says:
October 18, 2013 at 10:26 am
15 – You’ll have the unfinished American Dream mall, route 3 under construction….and no NY team even in the superbowl. Why are we doing this again?
Good Morning New Jersey
Not sure if posted already The phone number to the Obama care hotline is 800-382-5968.
The letters spell out 800 F**K YOU. I checked it out. It is true. Dial the # if You don’t believe it. Or check out Washington Times story —-> http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/oct/3/naughty-number-obamacare-hotlines-vulgar-suggestio/
Mike,
The story says they are also marketing an Obamacare /Obamaphone package deal.
I propose we start a new annual subcultural experiential arts and community event, similar to Burning Man, except it’s called Burning Mall.
We all pull up, camp out, break out some beers, get a little crazy, and let the mother f*cker burn.
Coudln’t we just use the Cateret tire fire that has been ongoing for 50 years ; P
RE Forclosed homes….anecdotal, but I see this type of thing reported in the local news all the time these days.
Police arrest two in copper theft plot
Posted: Oct 13, 2013 12:19 AM EDT
Updated: Oct 13, 2013 12:19 AM EDT
ANDOVER — A pair of Morris County men were charged with burglary, police said.
Eric S. Goodyear, 30, of Oak Ridge, was charged with burglary, theft, possession of burglary tools, and criminal mischief.
David V. Mezik, 37, of Butler, was charged with burglary and theft.
On Thursday, Oct. 10, while patrolling the area of Goodale Road and Luchetti Way, Officer Robert Youngs observed a vehicle parked in the driveway of a known foreclosed residence.
Youngs pulled into the driveway where he observed Goodyear and Mezik at the rear entrance of the home.
After an investigation in which officers located hacksaw, a large hammer, a head lamp flashlight, and pieces of copper pipe stacked inside the residence, it was determined that Goodyear and Mezik had broken into the house to remove the copper pipe, according to police.
Both men were charged and were lodged in the Sussex County Jail in lieu of $25,000 bail.
Re: Title post;
So what they’re saying is that if it’s agency crap that is going to be moved off their books onto the taxpayer’s balance sheet in a matter of days if not minutes, prior FK is no problem. If its a non-agency jumbo where the bank’s own money is at risk — well, back the bus up and let’s set down and think about this some more.
I’m sure this will end well.
State trooper claims bikers are to face tougher ticketing
High-ranking state trooper related to Lien said to be behind order
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2465654/Does-SUV-attack-victim-Alexian-Lien-high-level-NYPD-links.html
‘You guys are going to get written,’ he can be heard telling the bikers. ‘After what happened in New York City, this is what they’re doing.’
He added: ‘The guy who was assaulted – his uncle is one of our bosses on our job. So he sent the word down, that all these bikes are getting stopped, and they’re going to get written.’
Anecdotal…. even though the Giants SUX this season. I was offered 6 Jets tickets and nobody in my office wants to go.
Juice,
I’ll take them. I have family members who would love to go.
anecdotal, but I see this type of thing reported in the local news all the time these days.
Claim jumpers, the mining is just a little bit different from how it used to be.
Scrap metal is so liquid it is crazy, I don’t remember ever having an easier time selling scrap for big dollars. It almost doesn’t matter what it is.
I cleaned some trash out of my basement one afternoon and walked away from the scrap yard with around 300 bucks, you heard that right. Most of the stuff, the average person would have just tossed in the garbage without even thinking about it (old brass faucets, old brass valves, scrap copper piping, old radiators, baseboard cores, broken aluminum car rims, steel wheels, scrap iron railing, old aluminum gutter leaders, snipped ac coils out of air conditioners, etc). Even crazier, I tossed a huge load of computer gear one day, but at the last minute decided to strip the cases and aluminum extruded heat sinks. When I was done I had a small recycling container filled with extruded aluminum (I had a lot of computers), and a big box of sheet steet case I’d flattened out. I think I walked out with another 300 bucks that time too. Old car batteries? Dead SLA batteries from old UPSes, big bucks. Too bad they don’t take cars, I’d drive straight in there and probably get more for the scrap steel and aluminum than I could for the whole running car.
Juice [31];
My friend is trying to pull a JJ and lowball some Giant PSLs; so far the faithful are holding ranks.
34 – do they even use copper in new construction/repairs anymore? They used all plastic piping on my addition.
37
Most residential new construction has gone to plastic, either pex or cpvc.
Multifamily construction is usually a mix of plastic and copper. Copper (sometimes cpvc) mains, pex runs into the units has become the norm.
Commercial construction is still largely copper.
Lead free requirements that go into effect in 2014 for all potable water applications may push more jobs into plastics.
the Giant PSL transfer window closes 10-31-2013. If Giants lose a sixth game it may shake some folks lose.
I did see a pair on season ticket rights in UD for face.
Anon E. Moose says:
October 18, 2013 at 1:02 pm
Juice [31];
My friend is trying to pull a JJ and lowball some Giant PSLs; so far the faithful are holding ranks.
Allred makes Sharpton look ethical.
Mezzanine 250B Row 6 $2,900
Mezzanine 226 Row 14 $3,000
Terrace 1 307U Row 15 $1,000
Terrace 1 343U Row 17 $1,200
If I were low balling Giant PSL, this four would be best to make an offer on. You can offer less than asking.
Mez B are corner endzone a little higher than Mezz A, but pretty cheap for mezz level. The row 14 seats are under cover, row 6 is 8 rows closer and cheaper
307 U is corner sideline, cheap.
But I rather go for 343 as same ticket price and is more of a sideline seat.
Other than that most Giants PSLs are overpriced.
Mezz B is a tough sell. If you are going with a wife or kid who does not like rain or snow and not scalping I would offer $2,000 each and see what happens.
If you got 343 row 17 at 1,000 that is a good deal. My friend was a giant season ticket holder like 18 years and that is his section.
http://nygiants.strmarketplace.com/Personal-Seat-Licenses/Personal-Seat-Licenses.aspx
Just goes to show how much of a business “this” really is…. Anyone wish to venture a guess as to the profession of this person’s resume?
**************************************
Objective: To bring proven skills in management, marketing, and organizational growth to an upward-moving company
EDUCATION:
2008 Master of xxxxxxxxxxx (with honors)
2004 B.S in xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
RELEVANT EXPERIENCE:
February xxxxx – April xxxxxx xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Provided visionary leadership to a xxxxxxx with 620 total members, $2.4 million in assets, a $600K annual budget, 30 employees (9 direct reports), and a four-star Child Care Center with an enrollment of 90
Reversed a 15-year decline by rebranding, restructuring, and implementing growth-oriented systems
Led a 12% increase in [revenues], reduced annual spending by $40K, and retired 30% of the xxxxxxxx’s debt
Led the creation of online ad campaigns, direct mail marketing, a website redesign, and community outreaches that doubled the number of first-time guests (aka customers)
Tripled the rate at which first-time guests became full members through a customer-service oriented assimilation system
Fulfilled all human resources management responsibilities including the creation of positions, the hiring, training and evaluating of upper level staff, and handling pay scales and increases
Handled all office management duties including supervising QuickBooks accounting, production and analysis of financial reports, database creation and management, updating workspace technology, and creating a productive work environment
Improved employee retention through effective conflict resolution systems and opening communication chains for appropriate recourse
Built and trained 40 teams of volunteers in their objectives and provided necessary resources
**************************************
Ponderer [42];
Social Worker?
#42..must be a good gym!
#42,
Pastor/Priest?
Ding! Ding! We have a winner….
Not sure I could have guessed. Sure didn’t look like the experience or highlights of a senior pastor (and especially the redacted version).
Well done Ragnar. You can leave early and have a double scotch on me!
Ragnar says:
#42,
Pastor/Priest?
Is that a $300,000 a year job too?
condo,
only if you’re gunning for the rabbi position.
Probably more! Wouldn’t be surprised if there was some equity participation, commission, and bonuses. And let’s not forget company housing, car, and other “fringe” benes … JJ – please chime in here…
#47 1987 Condo says:
Is that a $300,000 a year job too?
Finally some justice in this backward world…..
Foreclosure Haunts Next Home Purchase
Affluent home buyers attempting to get back into real estate after defaulting on their home loan are finding that few lenders are willing to work with them.
By
AnnaMaria Andriotis
Jumbo borrowers who went into foreclosure a few years ago are learning the hard way: You can’t go home again.
Affluent home buyers attempting to get back into real estate after defaulting on their home loan are finding that few lenders are willing to work with them. Those that do often impose long waiting periods, higher down payments and higher interest rates.
Since spring, lenders say they have increasingly been hearing from would-be buyers who went through foreclosure. “We get the calls routinely,” says Al Engel, executive vice president at Valley National Bank, based in Wayne, N.J.
Callers include self-employed borrowers whose income dropped during the recession, causing them to fall behind on their mortgages, but who have since financially recovered. Also affected are borrowers who walked away from their homes after their values plummeted and owed more on their mortgage than the house was worth. Now that home values have stopped falling in most housing markets, they want back in.
Terri Conrad and her husband saw their 4,500-square-foot, five-bedroom home in Carbondale, Colo., foreclosed on last year. They purchased the home for $1.25 million in 2007, but its value had dropped to roughly $700,000 by 2012. Ms. Conrad, who manages finances of affluent families, says the couple tried refinancing but was denied. Although they could afford the payments, they decided to walk away because they didn’t want to keep paying for a home that was worth significantly less than the loan. They are now renting in Houston and plan to wait at least a couple of years before applying for a home loan again. “I’m worried about who’s going to give me a mortgage,” she says.
Most lenders who offer private jumbo mortgages, which start after $417,000 in most parts of the country and at $625,501 in pricier housing markets, remain very selective and limit themselves to borrowers with the strongest credit profiles.
Foreclosures stay on credit reports for seven years from the time homeowners default on their mortgage. What’s more, a foreclosure can lower a borrower’s credit score by 100 points, says John Ulzheimer, a former manager at FICO, FICO +2.36% the credit score used by most lenders. Borrowers who were previously always on time with payments would see a bigger drop. For instance, someone with an 820 FICO score (FICO scores range from 300 to 850) could drop to 580 following foreclosure, he says. That borrower could need more time to work his or her way back to a top score before getting a mortgage.
Separately, many affluent borrowers went into foreclosure later largely because they were able to tap their savings to pay their mortgage. Foreclosures on homes worth over $1 million peaked in 2011, while foreclosures on homes worth less than $1 million peaked in 2009, according to RealtyTrac, which tracks real-estate data. By delaying foreclosure, they will likely have to wait—possibly until after housing has fully rebounded—to get a home loan.
Borrowers who intentionally default—the ones who walked away from their homes—are less likely to be approved for another mortgage soon after. Lenders that originate private jumbos often follow guidelines set by Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, which require strategic defaulters to have re-established their credit profile for at least seven years after foreclosure in order to get a mortgage.
But experts say more flexibility among lenders could emerge in the next year. A recent change allows certain borrowers to become eligible for mortgages backed by the Federal Housing Administration in as little as one year after their foreclosure. Previously the waiting period was at least three years. “This may be an influence on the private lenders to loosen a little bit on their waiting period,” says Daren Blomquist vice president at RealtyTrac.
Borrowers who overcame a financial hardship that was out of their control and improved their credit profile and are shopping for a mortgage should consider smaller lenders. Valley National Bank and Fremont Bank, which is based in the San Francisco Bay area, say they are open to working with some private jumbo applicants in as little as 2½ to three years, respectively, after the date of foreclosure.
More issues to consider in seeking a mortgage:
• Cash reserves. The banks willing to work with these borrowers require large down payments, ranging from at least 25% to 50%, and savings that equal at least three months of mortgage payments.
• Detailed screening. Lenders will often require a lengthy conversation with applicants to figure out the circumstances that led to their foreclosure.
• Higher interest rates. Some lenders say if they do approve these applicants, they are likely to charge higher interest rates to compensate for the extra risk they are taking on.
Yup, I don’t live too far from one of the larger temples in BC and let me tell, that is a kingdom! The rabbi is very well off from what I hear.
#48 zieba says:
condo,
only if you’re gunning for the rabbi position.
I was in the Red Bank Starbucks just now…..the have a big sign that says “I Love PSL’s”…….it meant pumpkin spiced lattes…..
JJ the Welfare Queen says:
October 18, 2013 at 1:48 pm
the Giant PSL transfer window closes 10-31-2013. If Giants lose a sixth game it may shake some folks lose.
Sorry the vendor who was offering tickets
will just give them to another client. It Box seats
And they push product at the games.
Really?! That should do it.
#50
“…and savings that equal at least three months of mortgage payments.”
They should be barred from ever be able to borrow again, period.
“Callers include self-employed borrowers whose income dropped during the recession, causing them to fall behind on their mortgages, but who have since financially recovered.”
Shouldn’t they be asked to payback the money they own?
“Also affected are borrowers who walked away from their homes after their values plummeted and owed more on their mortgage than the house was worth. Now that home values have stopped falling in most housing markets, they want back in.”
Those sucks would do it again without hesitation when given the opportunity.
“But experts say more flexibility among lenders could emerge in the next year. A recent change allows certain borrowers to become eligible for mortgages backed by the Federal Housing Administration in as little as one year after their foreclosure. Previously the waiting period was at least three years.”
This is precisely why the government should get out of people’s life.
More on the Mortorcycle gang (cop arrested)
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/11/nyregion/undercover-just-about-everywhere.html?src=rechp&_r=0
@texyellowdogdem: From many first hand reports of people using the Obamacare call center, the folks at the call center are well-trained and helpful. #inners
I would not be surprised if the NYPD had people operating in foreign countries.
Juice Box says:
October 18, 2013 at 5:29 pm
More on the Mortorcycle gang (cop arrested)
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/11/nyregion/undercover-just-about-everywhere.html?src=rechp&_r=0
NYPD’s intelligence adventure need to be slapped hard. The game they are playing is not compatible with this country’s way of doing things.
NYPD is behaving like Scotland Yard. Scotland Yard (aka -London Metropolitan Police Criminal Investigation Division) by virtue of history took on many of the duties like Royal Family Protection, Labs ,etc that in the US are handled by the Fed Gov’t. Scotland Yard is the largest local police force in the UK that by virtue of its size and history has many duties, and specialties that are lent out to other agencies in the nation.
This is a very bad idea for the US, because of regional politics, and likelyhood or regional corruption.
First politics – Think the damage that a Maricopa County like Sheriff Arpaio can do if he were to be allowed the leverage that the NYPD presently has. Think the southwest own Edgar J. Hoover.
Corruption – As we are seeing with the undercover cop hooligan motorcycle rider that did spying on Occupy Wall Street demonstration. NYPD did not monitor and actively restrict his off-duty social life. Things that Fed agencies do with their staff. So think the stuff that Serpico brought out but instead of local mob hoodlums with pay offs think Mexican Drug Gangs.
So eventually for better or worse, after an incident. The Fed Gov’t will tell in blunt terms to NYPD to stick to parking tickets, and stop and frisk. Because the consequences will be very ugly if they are not stop soon.
Anyone who pays his mortgage is a goddam idiot.
On the bright side, Magpies- down a man- draw Liverpool and enter top half of Prem.
Sox! Wow, I’m gonna need a defibrillator for at least another week!
[68] spine,
Saw that, what a match. We couldn’t start at our usual bar so we decamped to our old bar and watched in a room full of scousers. They were stunned. Of course, so were we.
There were some Gooners there waiting for their match. They were real jerks.
@MMFlint: This Canadian has had to endure free, socialized, government-mandated health care for about 35 seconds. Cleary upset. http://t.co/kTKVKQ8TX8
@markfollman: Yet another 2-year-old finds a loaded handgun and accidentally kills herself: http://t.co/wVLroCAO7t Depressingly regular news.
Obviously tragic but does accidental child deaths with firearms happen with any greater frequency than other accidental deaths?
anon (the good one) says:
October 20, 2013 at 11:37 am
@markfollman: Yet another 2-year-old finds a loaded handgun and accidentally kills herself: http://t.co/wVLroCAO7t Depressingly regular news.
[68]
They certainly don’t – but are more preventable than other deaths. Gun rights carry responsibilities, too. Not charging the relatives with at least criminal negligence for leaving the loaded handgun laying around when the small child is in the house is a bad, bad precedent.
Agreed. But I don’t think that’s the reason anon posted that.
Anon I’m curious, why did you post that?
cobbler says:
October 20, 2013 at 1:14 pm
[68]
They certainly don’t – but are more preventable than other deaths. Gun rights carry responsibilities, too. Not charging the relatives with at least criminal negligence for leaving the loaded handgun laying around when the small child is in the house is a bad, bad precedent.
so glad there was a drone(s) flying over the crowd at The Hunt this weekend
what ever would we have done
68-69
You’re so sure about that?
I’d like to see estimates about how many children accidently shoot themselves as well as how many drown in their own pools.
All tragic nontheless
You can’t make childhood 100% sterile and safe… we try our best to have the safest pools, playgrounds, etc. As we can’t make a loaded handgun child-safe, we should keep it away…
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#73 Joyce
Hard to get Apples to Apples numbers, but even the fact that you are reaching for them shows that you want to defend the position.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/12/21/child-gun-deaths-newtown_n_2347920.html
CDC numbers for 2010. “129 people between the ages of 1 and 19 died in gun accidents. Another 749 took their own lives using a firearm, most of which were owned by a parent.”
http://blog.poolcenter.com/article.aspx?articleid=6135
This year was lower at 172 children (under the age of 15) drowning between May 31 and September 6th.
い！あなたの、あきらめな！彼女は憎々しげにイスと、ただあなたを懇願から個人の感情において、祖国がないでください再 モンクレール 
They have some pretty good safes nowadays that can fit in a drawer and are quick access. They are designed to be opened in the dark or with a fingerprint.
cobbler says:
October 20, 2013 at 8:30 pm
You can’t make childhood 100% sterile and safe… we try our best to have the safest pools, playgrounds, etc. As we can’t make a loaded handgun child-safe, we should keep it away…
http://www.ammoland.com/2013/10/nj-second-amendment-society-files-amicus-brief-in-nj-supreme-court-concealed-carry-case/#axzz2iJZ6Hedv