From Vice (first time ever?):
Cities Are for Rich People Now and Wooing Amazon Only Makes It Worse
If there are two facts of life in the modern American city, they are that rent will be too damn high, and that attracting investment from a mega corporation will seem to some local power players like the best way to stave off economic disaster. The rent part is an old, old story. Under-construction of affordable and publicly-funded housing units targeted at the working- and middle-classes is a trend that started around the 1970s. Combine that with spiraling income inequality, the erosion of tenants’ rights, and stagnant real wages, and it makes paying for a roof over your head almost impossible in many metropolises. At the same time, the decline of manufacturing and the federal government’s general unwillingness to invest in major job-creation programs (like infrastructure) means civic leaders have long been tripping over each other to woo companies who might act as job creators for the populace and, not incidentally, help those politicians keep their own jobs.
Enter Amazon, the corporation to rule them all. CEO Jeff Bezos is the richest man ever, and his empire has been dangling construction of “HQ2,” its new headquarters outside the company’s original home base of Seattle, for nearly a year now. Dozens of cities have made bids, Olympics-style, to win the company’s favor, and 20 cities are still in the running as finalists. Their thirst makes some sense: After all, tens of thousands of high-paying tech jobs could be in the offing, not to mention all the money those new arrivals (or maybe even newly-employed locals) might be spending at local businesses.
The company, for it all its questionable labor practices and pernicious effects on everything from book publishing to retail clothing, does seem to be able to offer the prospect of a real economic boon. That’s what unprecedented corporate consolidation means—one company really does have the power to boss around an entire city because its sway over jobs (and its attendant political influence) are that enormous. The leaders of places as varied as Toronto to Newark (two finalists for the HQ2 bid) are not crazy to be offering massive (and possibly secret) tax breaks in hopes of winning Amazon’s favor—it really could improve their short-term finances or at least attract a lot of tourism and the wealth that comes with it.
But shipping in a bunch of tech workers and their ilk could also mean even higher rent and worse gentrification. And since cities don’t seem to have any idea how to actually drive down rent for the poor, it’s fair to wonder if they might be better off without that Amazon money entirely—even if it means losing out on jobs and development in the interim.
Good Morning New Jersey
https://njopra.com/2018/04/25/newark-releases-its-amazon-hq2/
Newark’s HQ2 proposal is the worst I’ve read, both in content and clarity. Why couldn’t Newark get an Business school student or consulting firm to help create a readable presentation?
People talk down my Toronto HQ2 call, citing political risk. But how will the US politicians go further than empty rhetoric when attacking Amazon? The company is so popular with US consumers, a backlash would erupt if the US regulators made it less convenient or more expensive to shop online.
All that money and Bezos still can’t fix that wonky eye of his.
My next door neighbors got a full price cash offer the day after they listed their house. It was about $75k more than I thought it was worth. He was also shocked. Now I’ll have 2 NYC CEOs living next to me. There goes the neighborhood.
“If you or anyone you know has been in the New Jersey real estate market, you feel the pain.
On the rebound from the housing crash, New Jersey real estate keeps getting hotter, and the battle of bids and demand for homes continues to get worse.
Home values have risen slightly, while inventory has plunged dramatically, making it harder to find a home in strong real estate markets, which tend to be Jersey’s most desirable areas.”
Newark’s HQ2 proposal is the worst I’ve read, both in content and clarity. Why couldn’t Newark get an Business school student or consulting firm to help create a readable presentation?
FFS. Page 1:
“10-gigabite internet service”
The CFO at my wife’s company just bought in Saddle River. The tide is turning.
Jeez first thing in the morning too!
My next door neighbors got a full price cash offer the day after they listed their house.
Two house tour guides in the last two months knocked on my door and said they had clients who love my house and are interested. For sale signs (the ones that I see) go on lawns around here and they are gone within a week. I’m in my house almost three years now and could easily make a profit, even if I didn’t upgrade two bathrooms, put on a new roof, sanded the upstairs floors, etc. I can make twice the money I put into the house.
The economy is very strong, as evidenced by the crowds on the train, even in the heart of the summer vacation weeks. It’s crowded getting younger by the day and I can only imagine what September is going to bring. All this steady doom and gloom from the media onslaught is simply because they hate Trump AND because he’s doing the things that should have been done a long time ago. Anecdotal evidence has become the real news.
There is a lawsuit over the 3rd party vendor that prepared the Newark’s HQ2 proposal.
Then there is the website they built to promote it, it is already down…..
https://yesnewark.com/
Fast sorry I am not buying the crowds getting younger by the day on the trains. I have been riding the Pascack Valley line for years and it’s never been older. Yes now you have the college interns summer jobs kids on the train and that will be gone in another week or two. Houses are selling in my town as well. And yes some have children already but I have to tell you they are older 40s with toddlers. Not saying it’s good or bad just pointing out how much things have changed. The pool club which used to mean you have arrived in my town is limping through another season. No parents home not enough kids..
This sold for over a million recently in Wayne.
https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/32-Vista-Trl-WAYNE-NJ-07470/39797945_zpid/
This just sold on alps right by DePaul. So double lined and a very busy road sold for I think 776 or 778.
https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/1450-Alps-Rd-WAYNE-NJ-07470/39795005_zpid/
Amazon HQ2 is going to be a terrible deal for whichever city is unlucky enough to “win”.
The economic activity would be great, of course. But it’s going to create a lot of problems too -housing, transit, infrastructure, etc. – and whatever ridiculous bargain that Bezos hammers out isn’t going to leave much if any revenue to mitigate them.
32 Vista Trail, Wayne sold for $1,250,000 6/29/09. Likely still depreciating!
Something that I’ve noticed lately in the media is the assumption that gentrification is a bad thing to be concerned about and prevented by “stakeholders” in the community. I suppose it goes hand in hand with the idea that being able to support oneself through productive work, savings and investment, two parent families, etc. are forces of oppression. Meanwhile, addicts, hookers, and schools that fail their students are presented as supporting “vibrant communities”.
^^^$33,000 in taxes at an assessed value of $650,000. That tax bill is fun for the new owner.
And I know the logic – The owner is so rich that a tax bill of this size doesn’t bother him. We disagree.
30 year,
Maybe, but I would say bottom has already been hit for towns further out from nyc. The spillover is real, every year it’s been spreading from the coast to the next town that hasn’t seen appreciation yet. Went from jersey city, to secaucus, to Rutherford, to Clifton, to Montclair….it’s inevitable, the economy is so strong and getting stronger.
Then why did they buy it? Actions say a lot when judging a market, not your feelings of who would pay 33,000 a year in taxes. Trust me, they have so much money it doesn’t phase them or they would not have bought.
homeboken says:
August 7, 2018 at 9:41 am
^^^$33,000 in taxes at an assessed value of $650,000. That tax bill is fun for the new owner.
And I know the logic – The owner is so rich that a tax bill of this size doesn’t bother him. We disagree.
No bottom yet for the top end in towns like Wayne. Today I will look at a house in Oakland on over 5 acres, over 5000 GLA, with over $40,0000 in taxes. Scheduled for sheriff sale this week. Hey Pumpkin, where did all their money go?
Just sold. Beautiful property, love this house. Jog around this lake. Just sold for 1.6 with 42,000 in taxes.
https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/764-Pines-Lake-Dr-W-WAYNE-NJ-07470/39799820_zpid/
Just sold in April for 1.2 and 33,000 taxes.
https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/744-Pines-Lake-Dr-W-WAYNE-NJ-07470/39799667_zpid/
No bottom yet for the top end in towns like Wayne. Today I will look at a house in Oakland on over 5 acres, over 5000 GLA, with over $40,0000 in taxes. Scheduled for sheriff sale this week. Hey Pumpkin, where did all their money go?
Didn’t we talk about this circa 2006-2007.
Big homes, big taxes, why bother?
Albatross.
From a strategy perspective, modest homes were significantly better approaches. Never buy the most expensive house on the block, in the town, etc etc. Never buy in a town where you won’t be in the top quartile of income, etc etc.
There are strong segments of the market in towns like Wayne. Hard to find a good deal between $400,000 to $600,000. For a town like Paramus the range is likely $500,000 to $800,000. Tenafly range would be more like $600,000 to $900,000. Once you get into the top 10% of value range for all towns in North Jersey other than Hudson County the market is soft.
It would be fair to assume that this will not change until people find a comfort level with the impact of the new tax law.
Pumpkin, for the most part people with lots of money didn’t get their pile of money by being stupid about how they spend. Lots of wannabees buying luxury homes with big tax bills.
Live below your means, in a town where you are above the mean?
30 year he knows real estate better than you. Who cares if you are actually in the business and have been for 30 years. He knows the IT job market better than Bystander who has been in it for years. He knows everything better than everyone regardless of their experience or familiarity with a topic.
Pumpkin, for the most part people with lots of money didn’t get their pile of money by being stupid about how they spend.
Big hat, no cattle.
Pumpkin, post all the Pines Lake sales you want. Have you compared these sales to what similar homes were selling for just a few short years ago? Same story as the other high priced homes, still depreciating!
If I have the time one day I will post a breakdown of sales by price range in Wayne. If I remember correctly sales over $800,000 accounted for around 5% of the total sales in Wayne the last time I checked.
Ehh, NJ at its heart is still a banana republic.
Trains that are randomly shuttered daily without notice.
Debt at five times its gross revenue.
Children educated in roadside trailers.
https://www.monroenow.com/news/local/monroe/controversial-location-of-classroom-trailers-likely-won-t-change-monroe/article_acedb22e-941f-11e8-8840-1bf419cac691.html
Hope you like Rio.
Re: Newark HQ2 recall Christie for some reason (lame duck?) really didn’t care.
There was little to no effort behind the pitch, it was tossed out ill prepared on the deadline with a massive concession.
Felt to me like a suicide pass to the incoming administration….good luck getting up Murph if you catch this one…..
30,
These are current sales. These are the people catching the falling knife and creating a market bottom.
I don’t think anyone realizes that an individual purchasing a 1.2 million dollar home with 33,000 in taxes didn’t get into the position to purchase this by being cheap and saving money. They know how to make money, that’s why they can spend it. They have so much excess capital that 33,000 in taxes doesn’t phase them. You think they are living paycheck to paycheck? The reason the houses go into foreclosure sometimes is because these type of people are risk takers….remember they didn’t get into this position by saving and not taking risks.
And you guys still think (S)he is a legitimate poster.
Fast Eddie, your description of the real estate market place in your little slice of Pascack Valley heaven reads like it was written by Pumpkin! What about your legitimacy?
PUMP irrespective of the market top or bottom, remember just because someone makes a Mil$ purchase, doesn’t mean they can afford it or really rich…
The more we make, the more leverage we try to get and buy more expensive stuff and all that cycle..
How about these guys making 500K and living paycheck to paycheck..
https://www.cnbc.com/2018/03/06/budget-breakdown-of-a-couple-that-makes-500000-a-year-but-cant-save.html
30 year,
Lol. Take my Kool Aid away! :)
This article is ignorant. How is that living pay check to pay check? They are putting how much towards principle every year? That money just vanished?
Also, 5,000 in gas when you live in nyc? Wtf! How much are you driving? Three vacations at 6,000 a pop? Ten thousand on clothes for four people? Cry me a river, these people are doing great.
I don’t get their student loan debt at 35….they still have 10-20 years of student debt left with that high of a payment? Makes no sense. How much debt did they accrue?
NJDepartment says:
August 7, 2018 at 10:34 am
PUMP irrespective of the market top or bottom, remember just because someone makes a Mil$ purchase, doesn’t mean they can afford it or really rich…
The more we make, the more leverage we try to get and buy more expensive stuff and all that cycle..
How about these guys making 500K and living paycheck to paycheck..
https://www.cnbc.com/2018/03/06/budget-breakdown-of-a-couple-that-makes-500000-a-year-but-cant-save.html
3b,
I’m not even expert on IT market. I am just telling folks honest truth on my job search. Others could have different experience. I generally look at my family and close friends. I know their situations without any filtered BS. I will take it any day over business sponsored media blitz or govt propaganda. Everyone is doing ok. No better or worse under Trump. My younger brother is only ‘knocking it out of park’ person but he is hedge fund techie for 18 years. My older brother and sister are starting their job searches now. One is moving to heart of PA to be with spouse and other looking for high level administor for non profit in DC. We’ll see how things go for them. My comments were strictly on NYC banking sector which I still say is horrible.
From a real esate point of view, my younger brother is taking a beating on his nice colonial in a so-so CT town. He paid $600k or so in late 2010. Some of it is his fault as location sits above very busy area. He easily dumped 80K into place with updated kitchen, customized storage/shelving, huge vinyl fence, new heating, thousands in tree removal etc. It is now 4 months on market with no offers and he is down to within 5% of what he paid for it. I told him to negiotiate hard when he bought it but he did not listen. Still, it hard to believe he is getting crushed after buying in late 2010.
But, but..the appraisal came in at 610K back in 2010. He should have been protected from overpaying. (quote from a genious economist/real estate guru/jr. credit analyst from Wayne NJ)
Sorry, I snorted when I put Blumpkin and genius together in a sentence thus the spelling error.
The person is not a real poster.
It’s satire!
Bystander,
I’m glad you landed a gig, btw.
“Live below your means, in a town where you are above the mean?”
This!!
Bystander I understand. But you were far more qualified then he to opine having gone through a search and he contradicted you every step of the way. He is insufferable!
Fast No. I think he is real.
Take away one of those 250k incomes and it gets ugly!
Bystander congratulations by the way. I am happy for you.
Bought in 2010 and still underwater. Interesting..
https://www.wsj.com/articles/hardly-anyone-wants-to-admit-america-is-beating-poverty-1533596075
“According to the American Housing Survey, the poorest 20% of Americans live as the middle class did a generation ago as measured by the square footage of their homes, the number of rooms per person, and the presence of air conditioning, dishwashers and other amenities. “
Thanks guys. Time to sit by pool and enjoy last weeks of unemployment.
Bystander,
Now its the time to look for the right job you want and the pay you deserve…
Thanks NJD. I am still applying and still having calls. Just not responding to recruiters with contract jobs. That will save me two hours a day alone.
HGTV buys ‘Brady Bunch’ house to restore it “to its 1970s glory” – The Hollywood Reporter
https://apple.news/AD4iGHMifRF-Rql-gLNj_nQ
Musk is losing his mind…
Whether he does or not, he puts doubt and fear in the minds of the shorts.
““Live below your means, in a town where you are above the mean?””
I think “live below your means, so you can afford a town above your means,” works better.
But you better be prepared to teach your kids some morals and values as they won’t learn it from their friends or their friend’s parents.
On that “Yes Newark” site.
I love the sail boats and ferry on the Passaic/Newark River. Did you ever smell that river when the wind blows northerly or westerly? The PCBs will make your nose twitch. In my 30 years of commuting over that river, I’ve never seen a boat. Let alone a sail boat. Probably, because it would disintegrate on contact. :P
https://www.epa.gov/enforcement/case-summary-165-million-settlement-start-cleanup-work-passaic-river-new-jersey
Jersey where the middle class are poor….
Oh yeah. Thanks for the job search info Bystander. I am seeing the same kind of thing at my level. Certainly Gator saw it too. She took a >20% haircut.
“Jersey where the middle class are poor….”
Paycheck wealthy. Like the NY couple in the article. Upper echelon of national income but nothing left after expenses.
Real wealth creates time and space. Not a 3200 sq ft contractor special that needs two 1%er paychecks derived from 12 hour door-to-door days and de minimis savings in hour long traffic jams wallowing in the masses.
But ask our resident genius on wealth. You know, the twit who self admittedly isn’t there but will tell you everything you need to know based on his watching Robin Leach between ADHD episodes when he was a teenager.
Libturd,
I don’t think the new crowd in NJ cares anymore.. The urban crowd that is coming from wherever, will swim in in passaic river if you get them a house next to it..
This house right next to passaic river sold for 840+ in rutherford…
Look at the beautiful view and the color of the water..
https://www.movoto.com/realestate/210-vanderburgh-ave-rutherford-nj-07070-pid_d9bbr8q0ih#popphotoview
Passaic River up by Clifton/Rutherford is a little bit better.
Nereid, Montclair, Glen Ridge, Rutherford – they all row crew there.
They haven’t died of cancer yet.
OMG. That house has nearly every bad mcmansion feature possible. Let’s count them. Like those paper menus in roadside restaurants that challenged you to find the subtle differences between two apparently identical drawings.
Wasn’t there a bad mcmansion website or blog ripping apart these horror shows. Was quite funny.
Anyway who cares. I am staring at the Atlantic from one of the prettiest spots on earth after two martinis since we went to the house when a large cloud came over. My biggest decision right now is to bang out another hour on the beach or bring a 29 year old upstairs and let her luck my ba11s if she asks really nicely. Need to hurry, have to get back swinging that mop tomorrow.
NJDepartment,
Omg, that’s hideous!
That New York couple is living paycheck to paycheck, yet giving 18,000 to charity every year. The 32,000 loan payment for 10-20 years at the age of 35 simply blows my mind. Try making sense of that.
Well, it sat on the market for months and I guess sold in minutes as soon as the spring market hit.. Infact the whole area next to passaic river is flood zone and I don’t think people are giving any $hit about location as long as it’s a newer house.. and in train town.
Severe shortage of inventory and great economy maybe the reason.So I have a feeling that pumps may be right ….LOL ( did I say that)
Pumps, please read they live in NY suburbs, probably LI or Westchester. Think about this what does 8 years of private education cost? I’m going to guess they had 500-600k in student debt, they have only been working for 10 years and at an Associate starting salary they probably weren’t paying it off too rapidly because they probably were living in Manhattan at the time. The numbers are pretty accurate, what does a nanny cost for 2 kids in NY? 5k in gas makes absolutely perfect sense, 10k in clothes is totally reasonable Attorneys cannot go to work dressed like schlubs(seriously what does a nice suit cost, shoes, clothes for little greydon and ellery). I’m a bit older but make a similar income and have some similar expenses.
Income after taxes…yeah 275k is about right
housing expense….87.5k yeah I’ve 88k with P+I, property taxes, insurance, and maintenance, my house was less expensive but my taxes are higher and I have more maintenance
I spend about 12-15k on vacations, usually do 2(typically week long ski trip and a 2 week cruise)
Kids in cheap daycare/school it’s a savings over a nanny(I pay 30k for 2), my friends in Westchester pay are paying 26k for 1 kid
I have no debt(32k), no car payments(10k), no misc(10k), don’t spend near 12k on kids activities probably closer to 3k kids are young, and my food+utilities fit in the 23k
I probably save 75k-85k per year in addition to the 50k going into the 401k’s. But I’m pretty cheap, it’s no surprise if you aren’t very careful with the price tags that you could easily spend your income when housing and food takes more than a third and childcare is 20%.
I absolutely hate to admit I agree with Gourd – But he is correct as it relates to the NYC couple.
I see 2 maxed 401k’s, mortgage amm, $18k per year to charity and another $10k that is just horribly misspent. They are saving appx $70k per year right now.
The student loan debt is nuts – but I’m guessing law school will do that to you – But still – at this level of debt service they must have paid back $200k+ in debt so far.
Once the student’s loan are re-paid, these guys can save $100k per year without changing one iota of their spending habits
Found Libtard: https://youtu.be/fcwLrEATXH4
He does look quite like me. But I sing better.