Retire somewhere warm? Or tax friendly?

From the WSJ:

It’s getting trickier to put up your feet and sidestep taxes at the same time.

Investors getting ready to retire have long looked at state and local tax laws in deciding where to settle when their working days are over, alongside sunny weather and recreational opportunities.

But some states are becoming tighter-fisted with tax breaks for retirement income. Georgia and Michigan have imposed new limits on deductions and exemptions, and Kentucky is considering similar changes.

“As the population ages, it’s going to be harder and harder for some states to keep their generous programs,” said Kim Rueben, a senior fellow at the Tax Policy Center, a joint venture of two Washington think tanks, the Urban Institute and the Brookings Institution.

The result is a shifting landscape that is complicating what is already a difficult calculation of the financial impact of uprooting to another state.

Some states, including Florida and Texas, don’t tax any personal income, including retirement income. Pennsylvania doesn’t tax any retirement income, while Illinois doesn’t tax most retirement income. Other states appeal to tax-conscious retirees because they have low property taxes or don’t have a sales tax.

The changes could also alter the debate in other states, particularly those wrestling with the issue of whether increasing taxes will compel residents to leave.

William Schooling, a demographer at the California Department of Finance, says there is limited information about whether people move based on tax concerns. But a New Jersey report linked tax rates to “small but significant effects on net out-migration from a state.”

Financial advisers often discuss tax regimes with clients who are getting ready to retire. Andrew Tignanelli, president of the Financial Consulate, an advisory firm in Hunt Valley, Md., is working with a New Jersey doctor who plans to retire to Hershey, Pa., because taxes are lower there and family members also live in Pennsylvania.

On the West Coast, retirees are sometimes drawn to Nevada partly because it has no income tax, says Christopher Jones, who runs Sparrow Wealth Management in Las Vegas. Mr. Jones has personal experience—he moved the firm from the East Coast two years ago, partly to be close to family and partly to save money. “I was getting killed on New York City taxes,” he says.

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90 Responses to Retire somewhere warm? Or tax friendly?

  1. grim says:

    Forgot to post this last week, from the Record:

    NJ casino revenues decline again; largest drop in country, report says

    New Jersey suffered the largest drop in casino tax revenues of any state in the country at 8.2 percent, according to the annual “State of the States” report issued Monday by the American Gaming Association.

    The report concludes that the key reasons for the decline were the temporary casino closings in Atlantic City in the wake of Hurricane Sandy last fall and “increased competition from new casinos in the mid-Atlantic region.”

    The state with the second-largest drop in casino taxes collected was Delaware, down 5.5 percent.

    New Jersey’s casino tax revenues fell to $254.8 million in 2012 as an annual decline since 2006 continued – spending on gambling in Atlantic City declined nearly 40 percent in that time.

  2. grim says:

    Real Cost of Living in NJ from Legal Services of NJ:

    http://www.lsnj.org/PDFs/RCL2013.pdf

    Family of 4 in Bergen County, with two pre-school kids? You need $86k a year, minimum. 3 kids? $114k.

  3. grim says:

    From HousingWire:

    Freddie Mac speeds up availability of streamlined loan mods

    Freddie Mac announced the immediate availability of its streamlined modification program for delinquent borrowers on Monday, pushing up the roll out from its originally scheduled launch date of July 1.

    The announcement extends the GSE’s decision to make the streamlined mods immediately available to all Hurricane Sandy victims and gives servicers the green light to send modification offers to borrowers who are least 90 days – but no more than 720 days – delinquent on a Freddie guaranteed or owned mortgage.

    Loans also must be at least 12 months old and satisfy all eligibility criteria.

    Borrowers who are qualified do not have to submit documentation for a streamlined modification. The mod takes effect permanently after the borrower proves his or her ability to make three on-time payments during a three-month trial period.

    The streamlined modification offers the same mortgage terms as Freddie’s standard modification—an initiative that allows servicers to cut back on monthly mortgage payments by shifting interest rates, extending payment terms to 40 years and offering principal forbearances.

  4. grim says:

    From the Record:

    Flood insurance sticker shock as lawmakers try to reverse federal cuts made before Sandy

    Richard Bandazian of Wyckoff thought he caught a break when superstorm Sandy spared his vacation house on the Point Pleasant Beach boardwalk.

    Then his flood insurance bill came. Along with a 25 percent increase to $4,700 this year, he was told his bill would keep going up by that much every year until it hit a “full premium rate” — and no one could tell him how much that would be.

    Now he’s wondering how long he can keep the house.

    “You add another 25 percent next year and another 25 percent the year after that, pretty soon it makes it not worth even having,” he said.

    About 17,000 vacation home owners and 5,000 businesses in New Jersey are getting the same sticker shock from their insurance renewals, and tens of thousands more homeowners, including an unknown number of primary home owners, will soon be in the same situation.

    That’s because Congress, faced with a federal flood insurance program with staggering debts, passed two laws before Sandy ever appeared on the radar last year to phase out insurance subsidies that many property owners never knew they were getting.

    The rate spikes are hitting just as the region rebuilds, and some members of Congress – who voted for the bills last year but oppose the increases – are trying to persuade their colleagues to reverse course.

  5. grim says:

    “They’re saying only rich people are able to have houses at the Jersey Shore,” he said. “I worked a lifetime to get my beach house, and I’m not a rich guy.”

    I dunno man, you’ve got a house worth almost a million dollars in Wyckoff, and your Point Pleasant house had a tax assessment of $1.2 million.

    That’s somewhere near $2 million in real estate.

    I’m all for playing the “poor me” card, but get real dude.

  6. Comrade Nom Deplume, Bostonian says:

    FWIW, TPC is considered a highly reliable source in tax circles. And as nonpartisan as a group can be.

  7. Richard says:

    I would have thought if you can get through Sandy without flooding, it isn’t worth buying flood insurance, esp if its going to be very expensive.

  8. grim says:

    I wouldn’t be surprised if we start to hear talk about mandating “flood insurance” coverage across all property owners, regardless of actual flood risk. The mantra will likely revolve around “unexpected/unanticipated damages resulting from unpredictability associated with climate change.” May start to hear about expanding “flood” to “disaster” and include any weather related disaster not covered by typical HO insurance.

  9. Anon E. Moose says:

    Grim [8];

    The only way to keep paying out for people who choose to live in flood plains and get flooded out over and over is to force people who have no risk of flood to pay the cost, huh?

    Obamacare meets flood insurance.

  10. grim says:

    9 – That is exactly correct.

  11. Fast Eddie says:

    9 & 10,

    Prestrige has a price; if we can’t accept it, we need to look elsewhere. ;)

  12. JJ says:

    This story is stupid first of all if he got zero damage during Sandy drop the insurance. That was a once in one hundred year storm. Since he already has it and storm season is coming I would wait till December to drop it.

    FEMA is taking non primary homes, vacation and second homes to full market price starting with renewals, max of 25% a year till homes reach full market value.

    FEMA is also ending Grandfathering. Meaning, you bought a home built prior to current zoning requirements you can take over policy. Now it is full market price for new owner.

    FEMA also for homes that are repetitive loss homes or homes that are ICI even if policy stays in force rates are going up.

    My primary house which now has flood and “technically” never had a flood claim is entitled to the low flood insurance as long as I own home. But I cant give it to next person. Given my house is built in 1955 and never had a flood claim and FEMA will now jack my rates sky high if I put in a claim more than 50% of building cost or 3 claims greater than 5k I wont be putting in much claims. Also FEMA has a new rule I cant substantially expand house or I lose rate.

    FEMA left a narrow bucket of who gets subsidized flood rates.

    Also guy in article can just convert vacation home to primary property by 12-31-2013 and lock in the primary home rate. After that even if Primary it goes up.

    I got screwed on the Flood Free Ride as I never had flood insurance. Now I am kinda trapped in my house. My super low flood rate is only for me. I sell it next guy gets jacked rates, if I rent it I get jacked rates as not a primary home.

    Only good part is tons of homes at shore, long beach and far rockaway are being sold cheap in 2013. If one actually wants to make it their primary home now is the best time in a lifetime to buy!!!! Not only do you get the cheap price, but you lock in cheap flood insurance for life. But window is closing.

    Part of reason I switched to a condo from a bungalow at beach is flood insurance. The condo has flood insurance not the owner of unit. Flood is in my maint.

    FEMA loves flood on condos. Why they charge the same rate for all units. No uppers got damaged only a few lowers. So FEMA nails the whole condo development. My condo pays 1k per unit flood. Which is pretty steep considering. But at same time for 1k in my maint I am cool, maybe condos in 2016 will become more popular at Shore when folks realize buying individual flood policies on vacation homes are outrageous.

    BTW full flood in a flood zone is crazy high. Women who got flooded out like one mile from me in the higher flood zone was paying 3k a year flood on a small cape with no basement. She could not raise it as it is no a slab which is very expensive. 130k. They told her in three years her rates will start rising till 13k. Full flood. They will hit her up 25% a year on her 3k policy till she hits 13k unless she raises house.

    She did renovation herself with aid of salvation army, catholic charities and flood money. Bare bones. She took the 40K left over paid off daughters student loans and now she sits. She figures the bare bone renovation has a shelf life of 5-8 years by then house is coming down or if it gets flooded again she is gone. Youngest kid is 11 so she only needs house 7 more years. Flood for folks like her is bad news. There really should also be a income based primary resident clause. But there is not. This couple makes like 100K which is nothing on LI, with a mortgage, 8K in property tax and now a combined 15K a year flood/home insurance policy all on a home worth tops 280k it is crazy.
    grim says:
    May 14, 2013 at 5:44 am

    From the Record:

    Flood insurance sticker shock as lawmakers try to reverse federal cuts made before Sandy

    Richard Bandazian of Wyckoff thought he caught a break when superstorm Sandy spared his vacation house on the Point Pleasant Beach boardwalk.

    Then his flood insurance bill came. Along with a 25 percent increase to $4,700 this year, he was told his bill would keep going up by that much every year until it hit a “full premium rate” — and no one could tell him how much that would be.

  13. 1987 Condo Buyer says:

    #12..why need to pay flood ins. if you rent it, assuming there is no mortgage??

  14. Brian says:

    Defense Distributed’s download site, defcad.org, features the following message:

    “DEFCAD files are being removed from public access at the request of the US Department of Defense Trade Controls. Until further notice, the United States government claims control of the information.”

    And Defense Distributed posted the following tweet announcing that the site had “gone dark:”

    #DEFCAD has gone dark at the request of the Department of Defense Trade Controls. Take it up with the Secretary of State.

    — Defense Distributed (@DefDist) May 9, 2013

  15. grim says:

    Arms export controls, no doubt. Interesting interpretation, I’m not sure I disagree.

  16. JJ says:

    Because if you rent your home you are not entitled to any FEMA assistance AKA $31,900 check for primary owners without flood insurance.

    The renter will move his personal belongings to the upper floors when water floods in. The renter is then entitled to make a FEMA claim for rental assistance and move to a hotel and take his stuff out.

    The owner is left with a badly damaged home and no tenant. Oddly flood insurance is more valuable in a rental home or a vacation home.

    Plus tenants could give a crap about owners house. For instance I was madly trying to save kitchen cabinets, electric box get wet installation down and towel dry wood floors to limit warping. The tenant would have just bailed left his wet crap everywhere and would have caused more damage to house. My neighbor had double the damage I did as his wife is lame, his kids are lazy and he is pushing 60. I had whole house on street in practically 48 hours, gutted and all. He was still futzing around and it caused tons of damage.

    1987 Condo Buyer says:
    May 14, 2013 at 9:29 am

    #12..why need to pay flood ins. if you rent it, assuming there is no mortgage??

  17. Brian says:

    Check this one out Grim. After all, this is a real estate site…..

    3D Printing: Your Next House Could be “Printed,” Not Built

    http://www.policymic.com/articles/38233/3d-printing-your-next-house-could-be-printed-not-built

  18. Brian says:

    3D House printing using a quick drying concrete perhaps?

  19. grim says:

    What problem is this solving?

  20. Brian says:

    http://www.technologyreview.com/view/428909/a-3-d-printed-house/

    Well, this may well be the coolest video you see today.

    It’s a TEDx talk from a fellow named Behrokh Khoshnevis, who is a professor of engineering at USC, where he directs something called the Center for Rapid Automated Fabrication Technologies. CRAFT has stated as its grand challenge “building a custom-designed house in a day while drastically reducing the costs, injuries, waste and environmental impact associated with traditional construction techniques.” The applications of such rapid-fire housing are endless: affordable housing for the poor; “extraterrestrial buildings constructed from in situ materials”; emergency FEMA-style housing, and the like.

  21. JJ says:

    Immigration.

    grim says:
    May 14, 2013 at 10:01 am

    What problem is this solving?

  22. grim says:

    Nicely done

  23. Brian says:

    For better or for worse, it’s a disruptive technology. And it’s coming.

  24. Lisoosh says:

    “Anon E. Moose says:
    May 14, 2013 at 8:19 am
    Grim [8];

    The only way to keep paying out for people who choose to live in flood plains and get flooded out over and over is to force people who have no risk of flood to pay the cost, huh? ”

    What’s the difference between that and current federal subsidies?

  25. Lisoosh says:

    “Brian says:
    May 14, 2013 at 10:39 am
    For better or for worse, it’s a disruptive technology. And it’s coming.”

    Great. When every job in the nation has been replaced by machines, who is going to buy these little plastic houses?

  26. Brian says:

    From the article:

    Still, he doesn’t sugarcoat the fact that yes, a number of able-bodied men will be put out of work. That’s no excuse, he says, for not seizing on this technology and all the opportunities it represents. At the turn of the 20th century, 62% of Americans were farmers, he points out. Today, that figure’s something like 1.5%. And yet the world didn’t collapse. “The same will be true in the case of construction. There will always be better economies resulted from advancement and utilization of technologies that just make sense.”

    Lisoosh says:
    May 14, 2013 at 10:47 am
    “Brian says:
    May 14, 2013 at 10:39 am
    For better or for worse, it’s a disruptive technology. And it’s coming.”

    Great. When every job in the nation has been replaced by machines, who is going to buy these little plastic houses?

  27. Fast Eddie says:

    Dear President Obama,

    Thank you!

    Sincerely,
    Richard M. Nixon

  28. Libtard in Union says:

    Plastic houses will make for interesting firefighting.

  29. Statler Waldorf says:

    Burning plastic is great for fire safety. I can see the toxic black smoke filling the hallways now.

    “3D Printing: Your Next House Could be Printed, Not Built”

  30. joyce says:

    I don’t understand a RE listing of a storm destroyed house on leased land. What are they selling? the right to assume the lease in perpetuity, fantastic

    I would never consider a house on leased land, but that’s just me

  31. Statler Waldorf says:

    JJ, not until they can print shrubs and lawn mowing robots.

  32. joyce says:

    If a land lease is only for 20 years or so, what happens in the house owner can’t come to an agreement with the land owner on a renewal?

  33. grim says:

    CoreLogic HPI:

    http://www.corelogic.com/downloadable-docs/marketpulse_2013-may.pdf

    New Jersey YOY – March
    Including Distressed – Up 2.5%
    Excluding Distressed – Up 2.8%

  34. Dissident HEHEHE says:

    “They’re saying only rich people are able to have houses at the Jersey Shore,” he said. “I worked a lifetime to get my beach house, and I’m not a rich guy.”

    You know who own many shore homes in NJ? State and municipal employees! In Hoboken for example there’s literally hundreds of firefighters, teachers and police officers living in subsidized housing in Hoboken – we are talking $1000 for a 3BD apt – who take their savings and poor it into shore homes. Perhaps the above whiner is one of those.

  35. Brian says:

    They use concrete.

    30.Statler Waldorf says:
    May 14, 2013 at 11:21 am
    Burning plastic is great for fire safety. I can see the toxic black smoke filling the hallways now.

    “3D Printing: Your Next House Could be Printed, Not Built”

  36. Statler Waldorf says:

    Why did he switch from construction workers to farmers? How many construction workers existed “at the turn of the 20th century” and how many exist today?

    “At the turn of the 20th century, 62% of Americans were farmers, he points out. Today, that figure’s something like 1.5%. And yet the world didn’t collapse.”

  37. Brian says:

    Sometimes, people’s reaction to the device is that all of the construction jobs will disappear causing economic turmoil. He uses the example of how all the farming jobs disappeared to show that this is not necessarily true. With innovation comes new jobs and new opportunities. Let’s not let irrational fear hold us back.

    37.Statler Waldorf says:
    May 14, 2013 at 11:27 am
    Why did he switch from construction workers to farmers? How many construction workers existed “at the turn of the 20th century” and how many exist today?

    “At the turn of the 20th century, 62% of Americans were farmers, he points out. Today, that figure’s something like 1.5%. And yet the world didn’t collapse.”

  38. Anon E. Moose says:

    [27] Translated:

    HD TV Stick says:
    May 14, 2013 at 10:53 am

    A very thorough analysis, appreciate your learning.

    HD TV Stick/JJ… Who knew JJ spoke and wrote Chinese? ;-)

  39. Lisoosh says:

    “Brian says:
    May 14, 2013 at 10:52 am
    From the article:

    Still, he doesn’t sugarcoat the fact that yes, a number of able-bodied men will be put out of work. That’s no excuse, he says, for not seizing on this technology and all the opportunities it represents. At the turn of the 20th century, 62% of Americans were farmers, he points out. Today, that figure’s something like 1.5%. And yet the world didn’t collapse. “The same will be true in the case of construction. There will always be better economies resulted from advancement and utilization of technologies that just make sense.””

    Well, the world did kind of collapse. We had two devastating world wars that changed the intire industrial landscape. Never mind the current collapse of the middle class in the US caused in part by technology as well as globalization. Disruption is collapse, as well as rebuilding, but the world rebuilt isn’t the same and the human cost is sometimes incalculable.

    Yes from “lefty” sources but an interesting sounding book and interesting interviews, from a tech guru:

    “http://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/06/books/who-owns-the-future-by-jaron-lanier.html?_r=0″

    ““Who Owns the Future?” overlaps with “The New Digital Age,” Eric Schmidt and Jared Cohen’s much more polished work of Web analysis. Their book focuses more on global issues, but disagrees with specific points.

    “The New Digital Age” looks forward to self-driving trucks that can ease the strain on Teamsters; Mr. Lanier rambunctiously writes of “Napstering the Teamsters” out of work, and of how such technology could go terribly wrong. The books also disagree on whether surgeons’ work will be enhanced or diminished by robotics.

    And where Mr. Schmidt and Mr. Cohen see promise in technology’s effect on the Arab Spring, Mr. Lanier is sick of the back-patting about social networking. Revolutions can happen without it, too, he says. ”

    “http://www.salon.com/2013/05/12/jaron_lanier_the_internet_destroyed_the_middle_class/”

    “Much of the book looks at the way Internet technology threatens to destroy the middle class by first eroding employment and job security, along with various “levees” that give the economic middle stability.

    “Here’s a current example of the challenge we face,” he writes in the book’s prelude: “At the height of its power, the photography company Kodak employed more than 14,000 people and was worth $28 billion. They even invented the first digital camera. But today Kodak is bankrupt, and the new face of digital photography has become Instagram. When Instagram was sold to Facebook for a billion dollars in 2012, it employed only 13 people. Where did all those jobs disappear? And what happened to the wealth that all those middle-class jobs created?”

    “Future” also looks at the way the creative class – especially musicians, journalists and photographers — has borne the brunt of disruptive technology.”

    “Well, until about the year 2000 or so, some jobs had been destroyed by new technology. This goes back to the industrial revolution and earlier. But more jobs were created than those destroyed. So what changed?

    Of course jobs become obsolete. But the only reason that new jobs were created was because there was a social contract in which a more pleasant, less boring job was still considered a job that you could be paid for. That’s the only reason it worked. If we decided that driving was such an easy thing [compared to] dealing with horses that no one should be paid for it, then there wouldn’t be all of those people being paid to be Teamsters or to drive cabs. It was a decision that it was OK to have jobs that weren’t terrible.

    So it wasn’t inherent in the technology. In other words, there’s nothing inherently different about digital technology or the Internet than there is with factory technology or the assembly line or these other technological shifts that have developed?

    Yeah. I mean, the whole idea of a job is entirely social construct. The United States was built on slave labor. Those people didn’t have jobs, they were just slaves. The idea of a job is that you can participate in a formal economy even if you’re not a baron. That there can be, that everybody can participate in the formal economy and the benefit of having everybody participate in the formal economy, there are annoyances with the formal economy because capitalism is really annoying sometimes.

    But the benefits are really huge, which is you get a middle-class distribution of wealth and clout so the mass of people can outspend the top, and if you don’t have that you can’t really have democracy. Democracy is destabilized if there isn’t a broad distribution of wealth.
    …….
    Well, a lot of your book is about the survival of the middle class in the digital age, the importance of a broad middle class as we move forward. You argue that the middle class, unlike the rich and the poor, is not a natural class but was built and sustained through some kind of intervention. Has that changed in the last decade or two as the digital world has grown?

    Well, there’s a lot of ways. I mean, one of the issues is that in a market society, a middle class has always required some little artificial help to keep going. There’s always academic tenure, or a taxi medallion, or a cosmetology license, or a pension. There’s often some kind of license or some kind of ratcheting scheme that allows people to keep their middle-class status.

    In a raw kind of capitalism there tend to be unstable events that wipe away the middle and tend to separate people into rich and poor. So these mechanisms are undone by a particular kind of style that is called the digital open network.

    Music is a great example where value is copied. And so once you have it, again it’s this winner-take-all thing where the people who really win are the people who run the biggest computers. And a few tokens, an incredibly tiny number of token people who will get very successful YouTube videos, and everybody else lives on hope or lives with their parents or something.
    ..
    We don’t realize that our society and our democracy ultimately rest on the stability of middle-class jobs. When I talk to libertarians and socialists, they have this weird belief that everybody’s this abstract robot that won’t ever get sick or have kids or get old. It’s like everybody’s this eternal freelancer who can afford downtime and can self-fund until they find their magic moment or something.

    The way society actually works is there’s some mechanism of basic stability so that the majority of people can outspend the elite so we can have a democracy. That’s the thing we’re destroying, and that’s really the thing I’m hoping to preserve. So we can look at musicians and artists and journalists as the canaries in the coal mine, and is this the precedent that we want to follow for our doctors and lawyers and nurses and everybody else? Because technology will get to everybody eventually.

    It wasn’t too long ago that it was unskilled people on assembly lines who answered phones or bank tellers and it’s just crept up in the decades since. You’ve mentioned a few times this sort of digital utopianism that still emanates from Silicon Valley. Where does that kind of thinking come from and why does it exist despite all the evidence to the contrary?

    Well, it’s an orthodoxy now. I have 14-year-old kids who come to my talks who say, “But isn’t open source software the best thing in life? Isn’t it the future?” It’s a perfect thought system. It reminds me of communists I knew when growing up or Ayn Rand libertarians. It’s one of these things where you have a simplistic model that suggests this perfect society so you just believe in it totally. These perfect societies don’t work. We’ve already seen hyper-communism come to tears. And hyper-capitalism come to tears. And I just don’t want to have to see that for cyber-hacker culture. We should have learned that these perfect simple systems are illusions.”

  40. grim says:

    Heard Lanier give a talk like 15 years ago, hmm, maybe closer to 17 or 18, anyway, I wasn’t really impressed and just kept thinking “what is this load of bullshit”. I’ll give it another chance, but I can’t seem to get much further than that original impression.

  41. Ragnar says:

    Lishoosh, (41)
    What are these guys whining about? That people who hang out online in the US deserve someone to give them a US “middle class” lifestyle, (and in effect, a global upper class, top 10% lifestyle)?
    And anyone who doesn’t want to pay for some else’s Farmville/youtube infrastructure (home, high speed internet, utilities, car, food) is an “Ayn Rand libertarian” or “communist”?

    F*ck. At least the old fashioned communists expected the workers to actually work and produce something of value in return for their guaranteed government living. Now the lefties want all the benefits for people for only the cost of filling out government forms. It’s up to the top 35% to figure out how to actually produce something of value in this new global economy, and then pay for the bottom 65 percent’s “middle class” lifestyle?

    Or we just go back to the 1950s, raise tariffs, make everyone take manufacturing or farming jobs, take the women out of the workforce, raise trade barriers, and pretend that there is no global economy and China and Japan and Korea and the Europe don’t exist?

  42. Brian says:

    I don’t follow….are you saying a reduction in farm jobs and the rise in agribusinesses caused WWI and WWII? I don’t see the connection.

    Personally I don’t know if I feel good or bad about the whole idea of 3D printing or additive manufacturing but it exists, and it has the potential to make a strong impact on our world. For that reason, I am interested in it.

    It’s really just an idea…a concept. Things as simple as the assembly line had a strong impact in the past so why not this?

    41.Lisoosh says:
    May 14, 2013 at 12:45 pm

    Well, the world did kind of collapse. We had two devastating world wars that changed the intire industrial landscape. Never mind the current collapse of the middle class in the US caused in part by technology as well as globalization. Disruption is collapse, as well as rebuilding, but the world rebuilt isn’t the same and the human cost is sometimes incalculable.

  43. JJ says:

    War is great for getting rid of unemployment. I say lets bring back the draft every ablebodied male under 40 who is out of work has 90 days to get a job or get sent to certain death.

    It is win win, they either get a job or go to war and get killed.

    Brian says:
    May 14, 2013 at 1:06 pm

    I don’t follow….are you saying a reduction in farm jobs and the rise in agribusinesses caused WWI and WWII? I don’t see the connection.

  44. Dissident HEHEHE says:

    “War is great for getting rid of unemployment. I say lets bring back the draft every ablebodied male under 40 who is out of work has 90 days to get a job or get sent to certain death.

    It is win win, they either get a job or go to war and get killed.”

    Don’t give them ideas.

  45. JJ says:

    wonder if Jwow and Snookie did the prince at the Jersey shore today, only fair they did everyone else

  46. F1rstT1meBuyer says:

    Looks like I’m going to have to change my name soon. After looking at over 20 houses, my counter to the counter offer was accepted. I initially offered 5.2% below asking. The seller countered at 2.6% below the original ask and finally agreed to 3.8% below the original asking price.

    I thought finding the house was the hard part. I’m just realizing that was the easy part. I’m feeling overwhelmed right now with all the extra work that now needs to be done.

  47. Fast Eddie says:

    Is the AP wire tap to distract from Benghazi or was that supposed to be IRS Gate? I’m losing count.

  48. Painhrtz - Doc Daneeka says:

    Nom double or nothing on the 6 pack for Bruins Rangers. That was some comeback by the way last night. Was already making plans for toronto when you guys pulled the rabbit out of the hat.

    Now I can get my classic original six hatred of bruins back. Hated Sinden, despise Millbury and especially could not stand Neely.

    You up for it.

  49. grim says:

    From Bloomberg:

    Fed Says U.S. Household Debt Declined to 2006 Level

    U.S. households reduced debt during the first quarter by 1 percent to the lowest level since 2006, resuming a deleveraging trend in the wake of the financial crisis, according to the Federal Reserve Bank of New York.

    Household debt fell to $11.2 trillion in the first quarter compared with a peak burden of $12.7 trillion in the third quarter of 2008. Consumers reduced debt by $110 billion after increasing their borrowing by $31 billion in the fourth quarter of 2012, while delinquency rates fell “across the board,” the Fed district bank said in a statement. Student debt bucked the trend, rising to a record $986 billion.

    “Household deleveraging has resumed its previous trajectory,” Wilbert van der Klaauw, a senior vice president and economist at the New York Fed, said today in a statement. “We’ll look to see if this pace of debt reduction and delinquency improvements will persist.”

    Mortgage debt led the decline, falling to $7.93 trillion from $8.03 trillion, along with credit card balances, which decreased $19 billion to $660 billion, according to the Fed regional bank.

    The largest increase in lending occurred in student loans, according to the New York Fed survey. Total student debt rose to $986 billion in the first quarter from $966 billion in the fourth quarter of last year.

  50. JJ says:

    Are you kidding me? The negotiations only start once you agree on price.

    F1rstT1meBuyer says:
    May 14, 2013 at 2:33 pm

    Looks like I’m going to have to change my name soon. After looking at over 20 houses, my counter to the counter offer was accepted. I initially offered 5.2% below asking. The seller countered at 2.6% below the original ask and finally agreed to 3.8% below the original asking price.

    I thought finding the house was the hard part. I’m just realizing that was the easy part. I’m feeling overwhelmed right now with all the extra work that now needs to be done

  51. The Original NJ ExPat says:

    8,9, & 10 – I wonder if Warren Buffet is paying a lower flood insurance premium than his secretary.

  52. Anon E. Moose says:

    Pain [50];

    I’ll put a 6-pack on the Blue Shirts.

  53. Dissident HEHEHE says:

    Maybe the Prince and JC Mayor Healey will have a victory party tonight at D’jais? They both have a penchant for drunken public photos.

  54. xolepa says:

    (45) JJ would you feel the same if your kid was on that list?

  55. F1rstT1meBuyer says:

    @52 JJ What do you mean? what else is there to negotiate? Am i missing something?

  56. xolepa says:

    (56) I don’t play with thoughts like that in my head as you never know what life will bring you. My wife hated one our neighbors and always wished that they would move. I told her not to wish because your wish may be granted. Well, turns out neighbors did move several years ago. Replaced by squealing kids and noisy dog. The old neighbors were quiet.

  57. JJ says:

    I have never been unemployed in my life. Although at my age my options are getting limited. Too old to be a stripper, male model, rap star or sports star.

    I guess they could just decide not to collect unemployment. I support all wars the USA enters into. Shoot them all let god sort them out.

    I would say a better idea would you get the list of every person who belongs to NRA and owns a gun and send them first. A) they like to shoot things B) they are nuts C0 better to send them off before they shoot us. Also clean out the prisons and welfare folks, send them all off. Pull a cuba and put them all on boats.

    Just where to attack, so many crazy countries. Folks that live get to pick a war bride to bring back and a free home in downtown detroit and a free GM Car and 20K bank account in a TBTF bank .

    xolepa says:
    May 14, 2013 at 3:09 pm

    (45) JJ would you feel the same if your kid was on that list?

  58. chicagofinance says:

    NOTE THE DATE MAY 18, 2009 – 4 years ago…..

    OPINION
    May 18, 2009
    Tax Audits Are No Laughing Matter

    A president shouldn’t even joke about abusing IRS power..

    By GLENN HARLAN REYNOLDS

    Barack Obama owes his presidency in no small part to the power of rhetoric. It’s too bad he doesn’t appreciate the damage that loose talk can do to America’s tax system, even as exploding federal deficits make revenues more important than ever.

    At his Arizona State University commencement speech last Wednesday, Mr. Obama noted that ASU had refused to grant him an honorary degree, citing his lack of experience, and the controversy this had caused. He then demonstrated ASU’s point by remarking, “I really thought this was much ado about nothing, but I do think we all learned an important lesson. I learned never again to pick another team over the Sun Devils in my NCAA brackets. . . . President [Michael] Crowe and the Board of Regents will soon learn all about being audited by the IRS.”

    Just a joke about the power of the presidency. Made by Jay Leno it might have been funny. But as told by Mr. Obama, the actual president of the United States, it’s hard to see the humor. Surely he’s aware that other presidents, most notably Richard Nixon, have abused the power of the Internal Revenue Service to harass their political opponents. But that abuse generated a powerful backlash and with good reason. Should the IRS come to be seen as just a bunch of enforcers for whoever is in political power, the result would be an enormous loss of legitimacy for the tax system.

  59. JJ says:

    You got results of inspection, see if they will kick in some of closing costs, money for them to waive asbestos/lead causes or money if you drop the mortgage contingency clause or home inspection clause. Money to be owed you if they dont get out in time and have to rent from you, money in escrow if COs are missing.

    Here is where you skip the Catholic lawyers and get a good Jewish Lawyer!!

    F1rstT1meBuyer says:
    May 14, 2013 at 3:14 pm

    @52 JJ What do you mean? what else is there to negotiate? Am i missing something?

  60. Painhrtz - Doc Daneeka says:

    moose so we are both going to be betting on the same team? this goes back to Nom and I last year. I still haven’t collected and he ran off to Pennsyltucky so I’m giving him the chance to get square or an excuse to head to Jersey.

  61. JJ says:

    Is it just me or does anyone else wonder how long before Angelie Jolie Boobs are on ebay. I mean what a waste, you gotta figure someone is going to try and sell them.

  62. xolepa says:

    No, JJ. They’re worthless. Everyone can now 3d print them just like those baby fetuses.

  63. JJ says:

    Good one. Reminds me of the Harry Mudd eposide where he is stuck with endless copies of his mother in law

    xolepa says:
    May 14, 2013 at 4:09 pm

    No, JJ. They’re worthless. Everyone can now 3d print them just like those baby fetuses.

  64. 1987 Condo Buyer says:

    Regarding H Williams Paving….thanks for all your info over the weekend, they just finished up my driveway, and 3 of my neighbors (all riding off me…and I rode off you guys!)…thanks..looks good

  65. 1987 Condo Buyer says:

    #67..well thanks……but A rating in Angie’s and Libtard seal of approval……so who knows..the stuff looks black…?

  66. Libtard at home says:

    They are good. There’s probably better, but you’ll pay double for it. Just don’t forget to seal it in the fall with the best stuff you can buy. Two super thin coats beats one thick one. If you are quick and it’s dry, you can manage to do two coats in one day.

  67. Libtard at home says:

    JJ,

    I saw those reviews. I find the best guys are the ones with A ratings in the BBB, but have resolved complaints. If you see unresolved issues in the BBB, run! Also, don’t ever hire the ones who advertise. Paying for business means terrible word of mouth. So 1987…what did you pay per square foot?

  68. 1987 condo buyer says:

    $3 per square foot, complete rip out, gravel, compact, black top, working around belgian block and related issues, on par wih other bids i have gotten over past 2 years.

  69. Libtard at home says:

    With the ripout, sounds fair. Did ya offer cash? The kid bites on it, but the owner doesn’t.

  70. brain (37)-

    Of course not. We have good, old-fashioned fear to hold us back.

    “Let’s not let irrational fear hold us back.”

  71. chicagofinance says:

    The End Is Nigh (Ricin Roni Edition):
    Former Wall Street Trader Fulop Ousts Jersey City’s Mayor
    http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-05-15/former-wall-street-trader-fulop-ousts-jersey-city-s-mayor.html

  72. Anon E. Moose says:

    Just heard Healey conceded the JC mayoral election.

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