Fewer Underwater Homeowners in NJ

From the Record:

Share of underwater homeowners declines in NJ, US

About one in every seven New Jersey homeowners with mortgages, or 14.6 percent, are “seriously underwater” — owing much more on their mortgages than the home is worth, according to RealtyTrac, a California real-estate information company.

That’s down from 19 percent, or almost one in every five, in the second quarter of 2014. The drop in seriously underwater properties is the result of a rise in home prices, which is giving homeowners more equity.

Nationally, about 7.7 million homeowners, or 13.3 percent of those with mortgages, are seriously underwater, which RealtyTrac defines as owing at least 25 percent more than the property is worth. The percentage of seriously underwater homeowners has dropped from 17.2 in the second quarter of 2014.

Unsurprisingly, homes bought during the housing boom — when mortgage standards loosened and home prices soared — account for a large share of all those seriously underwater. Nationally, homes owned for seven to 11 years accounted for 38 percent of all seriously underwater properties, RealtyTrac said Wednesday.

Underwater mortgages affect the entire housing market, because people who owe more than their homes are worth can’t sell without taking a loss. That has led to a low inventory of homes for sale, slowing housing activity. In addition, underwater homeowners who struggle to pay their mortgages can’t simply solve their problems by selling the home.

This entry was posted in Economics, Housing Recovery, New Jersey Real Estate. Bookmark the permalink.

215 Responses to Fewer Underwater Homeowners in NJ

  1. Libturd in the City says:

    Frist?

  2. Libturd in the City says:

    From late last night…

    We continue to ignore the fact that what was promised is simply too expensive. Seriously, the shortfall is 90 Billion in NJ alone. There are only 9 million people in NJ. What’s $10,000 per person?

    Listen, if my boss told me that when I’m 65, my company will provide me with with Cadillac healthcare for life and 50K per year till I die, I would laugh in his face. I would question where the money to pay for this was going to come from? Yet when the public workers unions negotiated (traded votes and endorsements) with politicians that wouldn’t be around (or alive) to see it through, they just assumed the taxpayers would cover it. That seems awfully fair. Right?

    Listen, I hate to sound like CC, but even if the state was doing its part to pay these insane retirements, our services would be in the toilet. Hell, they already are, and that’s without those huge payments. We should ask the Unions themselves what should be cut to make those payments. What do you think Essex? What services do we cut? He was supposed to pay 3.1 billion of the 30 billion in state gross revenue for the pension alone. He paid 1.3 billion. Where do we get the remaining 1.8 billion from? What do we shut down. Who do we layoff?

  3. Essex says:

    I think that the state has an obligation to those who served it. They will make the pension system whole. If it were ‘you’ or your grandmother, you’d be up in arms.

  4. anon (the good one) says:

    @billmaher:
    I predict that sometime in the next few months the number of Republican candidates will surpass the number of #BillCosby accusers.

  5. Ragnar says:

    As Keynes would say, “we owe it to ourselves”. So no prob, just make the top 1%, 90,000 people pay for it. It’s only fair.

  6. Fast Eddie says:

    Anon,

    You coming to the next get-together?

  7. grim says:

    Yet when the public workers unions negotiated (traded votes and endorsements) with politicians that wouldn’t be around (or alive) to see it through, they just assumed the taxpayers would cover it. That seems awfully fair. Right?

    My position on this continues to be that these pension deals were illegal, these deals were made in back rooms, with political motivations, with no thought for where the funding was going to come from. By agreeing to pension programs that relied on unrealistic funding and performance assumptions, this amounts to the creation of new debt without referendum, illegal by the state constitution. Union victories were pyrric.

    I’m not sure how Sweeney’s new plan to borrow billions from the Feds to pay the pensions is possible either, since again, this should require referendum. Nobody else thinks funding the NJ pensions with Japanese housewife style carry trade is probably a bad f*cking idea?

  8. Essex says:

    Doesn’t matter how you ‘think’ the agreement was made.

  9. grim says:

    I think that the state has an obligation to those who served it. They will make the pension system whole.

    This is fair to new employees whose contributions are going to fund someone else’s retirement, knowing full well they’ll never collect on a similar set of benefits?

    “F*ck you, pay me”

  10. D-FENS says:

    Who says Democrats are anti-gun?

    “We have ample evidence the Libyan gun-running operation was a White House operation and that the State Department under Hillary Clinton ran the show,” said Clare Lopez, a member of the Citizens’ Commission who served as a career operations officer with the CIA and is currently vice president for research at the Washington-based Center for Security Policy

    Read more at http://mobile.wnd.com/2015/07/ex-cia-officer-obama-admin-framing-arms-dealer/#WjL8LAGIAAWIDgO3.99

  11. anon (the good one) says:

    @MarketWatch:
    Fewer than 21,000 lions are said to remain in all of Africa.
    #CecilTheLion

  12. grim says:

    I’m telling you, NJ will push pension obligations down to the municipality level. Municipalities will have no mechanism other than asset sales and increased property taxes to fund this. This will be structured in the form of a one-time “special assessment” across all property owners. Municipalities will have no other option and this scheme is nothing more than a way to force their hand. Municipalities will retaliate politically and attempt to point the blame back to the state legislature for forcing this. Property owners in urban areas will be faced with astronomical bills. NJ will put in some sort of payment plan scheme in place for the special assessment, which ultimately results in owners paying more (finance charges, etc).

    You’ll see.

  13. Libturd in the City says:

    Essex,

    Heck…If I was promised that pension, I would have striked already. I am really convinced that even the Union knows the getting was too good, hence their past willingness to accept reforms. The problem is, it’s still not enough IMO. As for a bailout, I think the state of NJ and the state of Illinois are a little larger than GM. 1,350,000 to 216,000 and I have a feeling that the GM employees were not in Cadillac health plans. And the precedent is dangerous here. If Illinois and NJ get bailed, then what about the other 20 million state and local workers across the nation. Why would their state governments pay for their pensions if NJ and Illinois didn’t?

  14. grim says:

    Merkel would object, for sure.

  15. Libturd in the City says:

    As evidenced by the massive size of the shortfall in the pension accounts, the amount the state has been asked to contribute vs. what the employees contribute is way lopsided. It’s like asking my employer to match my 401K contributions 4 to 1.

  16. Libturd in the City says:

    And why? It’s not like these state workers are not paid well.

  17. The Great Pumpkin says:

    The fed low interest loan plan addresses how it will be paid, right? I think that is a sound answer to this issue.

    In response to your first paragraph–Why are you looking at it like that. Why are you looking at putting all the cost on the current generation? What does this generation have to pay all the costs for the past and future? The loan is a sound plan. It spreads the pain over 30 years instead of all at once. The federal govt is still paid interest, so it’s not totally free money. Nothing is free about the plan. They are just asking for help from the federal govt to help spread out the costs. No way can we handle not paying into the system for 20 years and expect to pay all those missed payments in one year. Come on now, you are being a little ridiculous.

    Also, I will never agree with you that a 50,000 a year pension is too expensive. Give me a break. These workers don’t make much in salary. This is their reward. Stop looking at it like the way you are.

    For example, avg salary of teachers is 65,000. That’s crap for this state. Yes, they deserve a 50,000 pension when they retire. If they put in 30 years, how do you not give that to them. They contribute to their own pension too. So think of it this way. Those first 15 -20 years you were paying the teacher nothing, the pension is payback.

    A lot of people die a year or two after retirement and don’t even get to enjoy it, what do you say about that? Instead, you act like everyone lives into their 80s. Not true.

    Libturd in the City says:
    July 30, 2015 at 7:34 am
    From late last night…

    We continue to ignore the fact that what was promised is simply too expensive. Seriously, the shortfall is 90 Billion in NJ alone. There are only 9 million people in NJ. What’s $10,000 per person?

    Listen, if my boss told me that when I’m 65, my company will provide me with with Cadillac healthcare for life and 50K per year till I die, I would laugh in his face. I would question where the money to pay for this was going to come from? Yet when the public workers unions negotiated (traded votes and endorsements) with politicians that wouldn’t be around (or alive) to see it through, they just assumed the taxpayers would cover it. That seems awfully fair. Right?

    Listen, I hate to sound like CC, but even if the state was doing its part to pay these insane retirements, our services would be in the toilet. Hell, they already are, and that’s without those huge payments. We should ask the Unions themselves what should be cut to make those payments. What do you think Essex? What services do we cut? He was supposed to pay 3.1 billion of the 30 billion in state gross revenue for the pension alone. He paid 1.3 billion. Where do we get the remaining 1.8 billion from? What do we shut down. Who do we layoff?

  18. Comrade Nom Deplume in Meffa says:

    [13] libturd

    Watch what happens with PR. That is the next fight on the card.

  19. Fabius Maximus says:

    The pensions will be paid anyone who takes the other side of that is a fool. The question is how?
    Pushing it down to the towns is an interesting idea but how do you calculate the share? If the town does not have a fire department that pays into the system, do they get a pass on that part?. If someone works for multiple towns over their career, would it be pro-rated over those towns?

  20. The Great Pumpkin says:

    This is the biggest problem.

    Why aren’t you more angry with the unfair executive packages that are totally unfair. No problem with the executives robbing everyone? Nothing to say about that? Instead get mad about a 50,000 a year pension? I guarantee you could put every single participant on this board in a ceo position, and the rate of success and failure will be the same. No one questions how we are paying individuals millions of dollars in a year? Where does this money come from? Just crazy, attack a worker for a 50,000 pension, but no problem paying an individual millions on a yearly basis. The bias is strong with people.

  21. Libturd in the City says:

    Plumpy. There are 750,000 current public employees in NJ’s. Not counting retirees. How many execs are there? And yes, I have huge issues with exec compensation and feel there should be ratio caps on executive pay as well, but that’s low hanging fruit an I don’t pay those executives involuntarily.

  22. The Great Pumpkin says:

    How does this plan entail nj not paying its’ bills?

    Libturd in the City says:
    July 30, 2015 at 8:20 am
    Essex,

    Heck…If I was promised that pension, I would have striked already. I am really convinced that even the Union knows the getting was too good, hence their past willingness to accept reforms. The problem is, it’s still not enough IMO. As for a bailout, I think the state of NJ and the state of Illinois are a little larger than GM. 1,350,000 to 216,000 and I have a feeling that the GM employees were not in Cadillac health plans. And the precedent is dangerous here. If Illinois and NJ get bailed, then what about the other 20 million state and local workers across the nation. Why would their state governments pay for their pensions if NJ and Illinois didn’t?

  23. Libturd in the City says:

    Shortfall is equal to 10,000 per person in NJ. So my family owes $40K. So there goes our personal emergency fund stash. I would bet, we are one out of every 200 families in NJ that could afford to pay it.

  24. grim says:

    Pushing it down to the towns is an interesting idea but how do you calculate the share?

    Based on a proportional share of total contributions, with the obligation based on each employee’s weighted earnings (salary x length of contribution).

    If the town does not have a fire department that pays into the system, do they get a pass on that part?

    If there are no direct pension obligations, they are not included in their proportional allocation.

    If someone works for multiple towns over their career, would it be pro-rated over those towns?

    Guillermo’s pension shortfall is $259,000.

    He worked for Clifton for 10 years at an average salary of $35,000 and then worked for Passaic for 20 years at an average salary of $45,000. Clifton gets a bill for $72,000 and Passaic gets a bill for $187,000. When both pay up, Guillermo’s pension is fully funded.

    This seems like a reasonable, fair, and equitable distribution of pension obligations.

  25. anon (the good one) says:

    @Salon:
    The 1 percent declares war on Puerto Rico: The austerity push that unmasks neoliberalism.

    Because Brown ultimately describes this “form of reason” as the cause of the inherently unstable relationship between democracy and neoliberalism, I think it’s worth quoting her description at length.

    According to Brown, neoliberalism as a form of reason “is an understanding of the world and of the human beings within it as nothing but markets — and an understanding of human beings as fully reducible to market actors.”

    Brown notes that the idea of humans-as-market-actors is not new. But neoliberalism holds that every aspect of society should be thought of as a market. That’s what makes it unique.

    Now, if you were to examine Puerto Rico’s crisis from a perspective other than that of neoliberalism, you’d probably think the solution was relatively self-evident. Puerto Rico’s creditors took a chance; and in retrospect it’s clear that they made a bad bet. In order for the people of Puerto Rico to pull themselves out of a nearly decade-long economic tailspin, the territory’s creditors will have to “take a haircut.” That’s a raw deal for them, no doubt; but the chance that an investment might lose you money is pretty baked-in to the whole capitalism thing (or at least it’s supposed to be)

    so it’s reasonable for policymakers to remember that making creditors happy is not their ultimate mandate.

    But when you look at the recommendations offered by these IMF economists and their 1 percent backers, it’s difficult not to conclude that neoliberalism has at least warped their sense of what other people will consider decent. For example, arguing, as the report does, that Puerto Rico’s debt is sustainable so long as its government cuts spending on education will not sound decent to those who know that Puerto Rico’s already closed 100 schools this year. It’ll sound even worse to those who know that the U.S. national per-student spending average is $10,667 and that Puerto Rico’s is only $8,400.

  26. grim says:

    Why aren’t you more angry with the unfair executive packages that are totally unfair.

    Because there isn’t some politician telling me that I’m personally obligated to pay for it. The shareholders pay for it, there are plenty of mechanisms in place for them to express any outrage they might have.

  27. The Great Pumpkin says:

    Govt worker, or private worker, they are all a part of the same economy. What difference does it make if it’s private or public. If a private worker is overcompensated it affects everyone in the same way when a govt employee is overcompensated. They are all a part of the same economy.

    How can you bash someone for getting 50,000 a year that goes right back into the economy and is taxed, as opposed to these executives who get paid MILLIONS IN A YEAR and bank all the money? They then pay an accountant to do beautiful tricks that result in these unfair executive payouts skipping out on taxes. The BIAS IS STRONG.

    Libturd in the City says:
    July 30, 2015 at 8:34 am
    Plumpy. There are 750,000 current public employees in NJ’s. Not counting retirees. How many execs are there? And yes, I have huge issues with exec compensation and feel there should be ratio caps on executive pay as well, but that’s low hanging fruit an I don’t pay those executives involuntarily.

  28. anon (the good one) says:

    @washingtonpost:

    U.S. economy expands at 2.3% in second quarter, picking up speed

  29. anon (the good one) says:

    @nytimes:

    The U.S. economy regained its footing in the 2nd quarter, growing 2.3 percent

  30. The Great Pumpkin says:

    lol…shareholders pay for it? The consumer pays for it. Stop kidding yourself. Love the bias here. It’s a hate the govt love-fest.

    If it’s private, I don’t pay for it. If it’s public I pay for it. What world do you live in? You pay for it no matter what. It’s an economy. What don’t you people get? The private field has outrageous no show jobs to take advantage of taxes. The private field has outrageous 6 figure jobs where the people do nothing. Why are you not complaining about this? Instead you attack a worker just because they are PUBLIC as opposed to private. No problem with waste in the private, only focus on the public end of the economy. Whatever.

    grim says:
    July 30, 2015 at 8:37 am
    Why aren’t you more angry with the unfair executive packages that are totally unfair.

    Because there some politician telling me that I’m personally obligated to pay for it. The shareholders pay for it, there are plenty of mechanisms in place for them to express any outrage they might have.

  31. D-FENS says:

    Again, you are misdirecting your anger at a CEO who had nothing to do with government pension negotiations.

    Direct it at the Politicians…past and present who put us in this situation.

    The Great Pumpkin says:
    July 30, 2015 at 8:39 am
    Govt worker, or private worker, they are all a part of the same economy. What difference does it make if it’s private or public. If a private worker is overcompensated it affects everyone in the same way when a govt employee is overcompensated. They are all a part of the same economy.

    How can you bash someone for getting 50,000 a year that goes right back into the economy and is taxed, as opposed to these executives who get paid MILLIONS IN A YEAR and bank all the money? They then pay an accountant to do beautiful tricks that result in these unfair executive payouts skipping out on taxes. The BIAS IS STRONG.

  32. The Great Pumpkin says:

    Yes, they would be upset if people were advocating for taking away their retirement. You know this.

    Essex says:
    July 30, 2015 at 7:45 am
    I think that the state has an obligation to those who served it. They will make the pension system whole. If it were ‘you’ or your grandmother, you’d be up in arms.

  33. Libturd in the City says:

    So it’s no so much a question of how do we pay it. It’s more a question of, how did we ever get here. And don’t go blaming it all on the states underpayment. It really is simply too rich. Which brings me to the ultimate solution. Let’s ask every executive in NJ to pay for the public workers pensions out of their excessive salary.

    There are 300,000 people in NJ making over 200K (that makes me an executive I guess). The shortfall is 90 billion. So if everyone making over 200K must write a check to make the pension whole, they would each owe $300,000. Realistically, I would posit that there are around 5,000 executives in the state. So if they each send in a check for $18 million, we’ll be fine. Of course, the underlying issue (the fact that the benefits are too rich in the first place) still remains, so in another decade or two, we’ll have to do this all over again.

  34. Libturd in the City says:

    “If it’s private, I don’t pay for it. If it’s public I pay for it. What world do you live in? You pay for it no matter what. ”

    Blumpy, Blumpy, Blumpy. You are as clueless as a Bill Cosby companion at 3am.

    How have I contributed to the CEO of say, GM? How have I contributed to the CFO of say, Burger King?

  35. 1987 condo says:

    We may see similar oversight And loans as was done in the 1970s got NYC, via MAC. You all remember “Ford to City Drop Dead” headline. Political reality caught up and loans tied to oversight were made. Detroit, Puerto Rico and Illinois will be test cars ahead of NJ

  36. JJ says:

    First PR can easily pay their debts back. They just dont want to. For instance PR Electric still uses Oil at most plants which is costly and has a poor collections system.

    The Creditors offered to lend them money directly at very favorable terms and to have them modernize plants some plants gas and at least hedge oil contract with the rest and get more aggressive in collections. The creditors were even ok with extending maturities and taking lower coupons. However PR wants voluntary principal write downs. At that point creditors know they are not allowed to declare bankruptcy so F them. They also know if they got laws changed to do that they could clip a few more coupons and then in BK circle like vultures privitize the electric company and take it as an asset.

    Same for COFINA bonds, raise the sales tax and be more aggresive in cracking down on black market.

    GO screw them they cant default so why do anything.

    If anything PR should borrow MORE. They should create a synthetic bond that is triple AAA above even GO bonds backed by hard assets and borrow big for 40 years and get a very low coupon. Then every single bond they have with a six percent coupon or higher they should call or buy in market if below par.

    When rates turn or oil prices rise things like PR Electric are screwed and BK is only option.

  37. Ottoman says:

    “How have I contributed to the CEO of say, GM? How have I contributed to the CFO of say, Burger King?”

    It’s cute that you think you’re intelligent.

    “Here’s a stark number for understanding how low-wage employers are relying on the kindness of taxpayers: $153 billion.

    That’s the annual bill that state and federal governments are footing for working families making poverty-level wages at big corporations such as Walmart (WMT) and McDonald’s (MCD), according to a new study from the University of California Berkeley Labor Center. Because these workers are paid so little, they are increasingly turning to government aid programs such as food stamps to keep them from dire poverty, the study found.”

    http://www.cbsnews.com/news/how-low-wage-employers-cost-taxpayers-153-billion-a-year/

  38. Ottoman says:

    See above

    “Because there isn’t some politician telling me that I’m personally obligated to pay for it. The shareholders pay for it, there are plenty of mechanisms in place for them to express any outrage they might have.”

  39. Libturd in the City says:

    I found some better numbers. Of the 4,000,000 NJ state tax returns collected on the 9,000,000 people who live here, 50,000 reported income greater than $500,000. Let’s only charge them since they all must be executives and certainly can afford it (which is the true blue reasoning employed by most lefties anyway). So that’s only $1,800,000 per executive family. Write those checks. Blumpkin says you should. After all, that’s where the problem stems from.

  40. Ottoman says:

    And yet your convictions are not so strong that you’d be willing to file suit and prove it in court. You do know we have a court system in America right? And if you could get it into federal court, our corporate owned Supreme Court just might agree with you, regardless of the truth. Instead you’ll just continue to blame public workers for NJs problems.

    “My position on this continues to be that these pension deals were illegal, these deals were made in back rooms, with political motivations, with no thought for where the funding was going to come from. By agreeing to pension programs that relied on unrealistic funding and performance assumptions, this amounts to the creation of new debt without referendum, illegal by the state constitution. Union victories were pyrric.”

  41. Libturd in the City says:

    “It’s cute that you think you’re intelligent.”

    I’d rather be a fool than a pompous pr1ck.

  42. clotluva says:

    If pension obligations are forced down to the municipal level, couldn’t the municipalities then declare bankruptcy…or just continue to build deficits so substantial that it once again becomes the state’s problem?

    http://www.njslom.org/magazine/2011-10/pg-98.html

  43. Libturd in the City says:

    ” You do know we have a court system in America right?”

    Pompous pr1ck.

  44. phoenix says:

    Libturd,
    First of all, the answer should NEVER allow any one group to benefit more than the others. So if cuts need to be made, all age groups, ALREADY RETIRED and still working, need to share in any pain equally.
    Secondly, we have tons of money to give to other nations, they have their hands out like beggars on 42nd street. Take some of that money and put it towards the the funding.
    Also, give them federal loans at the SAME RATE they lend money to the banks for. We seem to have no problem printing money for others, why not for us here. After all, it was the politicians that approved this, suck it up.
    The combo of increased funds, a haircut in reimbursement, and no interest loans should shore it up a bit.
    You wave the flag on the 4th of July for America.
    You offshore all the work you can.
    What you can not offshore you insource with visas.
    Then you use technology to get rid of the rest.
    I look at my neighbors, middle class people just trying to make a go of it, getting in the car every morning, coming home late at night, trying to put their kids thru school.
    Real Americans need a real leader and not someone bought and paid for.

  45. Libturd in the City says:

    Actually, you can blame the NJ Assembly (mostly made up of Ottos), for the leaky property cap that allows for municipalities to increase their property tax increases over 2.5% for such extraneous needs such as pension obligations. CC asked for a 3% hard cap. No matter how hard he tried to pass an unbreakable cap, the Dem controlled assembly would not have it. It was either the 2.5% BS cap or no cap at all. Now you know who to blame. The Blue Pompous Pr1cks who know better!

  46. Essex says:

    33. Sure, and while we are at it. Let’s build another stadium.

  47. Essex says:

    44. I like the cut of your jib, carry on.

  48. Libturd in the City says:

    Phoenix…I agree. I can easily name one thousand wrong at all levels of government. And I’m apparently, not intelligent. And I can name one thousand things wring with capitalism and corporate greed. It pissed me off to no end that shareholders don’t say boo about excessive compensation. But I know it’s setup so they little guy is powerless. Really, our government behaves no differently than an executive board, which isn’t that terribly surprising. After all, it crafts all of it’s laws to the highest paying bidder. Need Uranium? Make a donation to the Clinton Foundation. Don’t worry, she’ll delete the email.

  49. D-FENS says:

    Barack Obama tells Jon Stewart the economy, ‘by every metric, is better’ than when he took office

    Politifact: Mostly False

    http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2015/jul/28/barack-obama/barack-obama-tells-jon-stewart-economy-every-metri/

  50. clotluva says:

    By the way, the maximum backstop for private pensions insured by the PBGC is $60k/year.

    http://www.pbgc.gov/wr/benefits/guaranteed-benefits/your-guaranteed-pension.html

    It would seem logical that any federal loans to support public pensions would be contingent on providing a similar cap.

  51. Libturd in the City says:

    And Essex, I really do sympathize and have nothing personal against anyone going for what they can. I have the most respect for those who strive to do their best. Though, the problem here is that the politicians gave away a farm when all they had was a small backyard garden to give (Grim’s point). And they left the taxpayers to make up the difference. And sure, blah blah blah, it’s a representative form of government and we voted for these guys. But at some point, the economics of it become a factor. At some point, everybody leaves and no one gets paid their pensions. NJ has had a suck@ss recovery. I personally feel it is due to excessive taxation and overregulation by far too large of a state government. I could be wrong. It wouldn’t be the first time. We’ll see how this plays out. If the stock market crumbles (which is due), we’ll see the results in 2019. If the market continues on its current rampage, then maybe 2023 at best. Either way, invest in popcorn futures.

  52. Essex says:

    51. I respect your point of view. But the horse has left the barn…

  53. Libturd in the City says:

    “33. Sure, and while we are at it. Let’s build another stadium.”

    Wait until the Devils move. I paid a huge amount of the construction costs for the unnecessary Prudential Center. They lost their basketball team and the hockey team just might move to Vegas. On the bright side, we were able to provide a few impoverished locals a couple more minimum wage jobs. Seems like a good investment. I’m guessing the blue-team was behind it. Meanwhile, the baseball stadium a mile north of the Rock (Newark Bears) sits empty.

  54. D-FENS says:

    @Mark_J_Perry: Milton Friedman: “The minimum wage is the most anti-black law on the books” https://t.co/rsNexIY4qk

  55. Libturd in the City says:

    Essex. There never was a barn. And that horse is marching right to the glue factory.

  56. Libturd in the City says:

    I agree with Uncle Milty. The money would be better spent on providing skills training for those who were too dumb to take advantage of the many opportunities given to them when they were younger.

  57. Essex says:

    55. One more reason that I am loathe to sink a fortune into real estate here.

  58. FKA 2010 Buyer says:

    Move along, nothing to see here. Keep discussing the inner workings of who ultimately pays someone’s pension. Hint….it’s you one way or another. Either as a employee accepting a lower pay, as a investor accepting lower returns, as a consumer payer higher prices for their products or as a taxpayer because the gov’t has given them some type of corporate welfare.

    HELOC Defaults Could Be Next Villain To Victimize Housing Market

    According to Experian, approximately $265 billion worth of HELOC loans were originated between 2005 and 2008. By comparison, between 2000 and 2002 that market was around $20 billion. Up until now, much of the damage from this mounting debt has been contained because borrowers have only been compelled to make interest payments. But now those loans are in or nearing the repayment phase.

    That’s significant, because over the last two calendar years there has been a sharp uptick in 90-day delinquencies for borrowers in the repayment phase, Experian says. Also consider that the S&P/Experian Consumer Credit Default Indices showed that the default rate on second mortgages – which include HELOCs – jumped in June over May, from 0.42 percent to 0.55 percent, the biggest monthly increase since 2013.
    Whatever happens, we certainly won’t see a repeat of 2008. For one, HELOCs are far less numerous and represent fewer dollars than traditional mortgages. Also, they are typically not bundled together into bonds and sold to outside investors. That means their tentacles don’t stretch quite as far, making a cataclysmic event that cascades throughout the entire financial system a near uncertainty.

    http://www.forbes.com/sites/greatspeculations/2015/07/29/heloc-defaults-could-be-next-villain-to-victimize-housing-market/

  59. Essex says:

    make that Loath. Yet, living here, in this state has provided some huge rewards for my family. God Bless big Pharma.

  60. Essex says:

    No see Stu, you can bitch and moan about teachers and bailouts. And some pensioner scrimping by on $35k a year. But you won’t say or do anything to rant about the ride you are being taken on (to the glue factory) by the healthcare system in this country. No, because everything thinks, since they sat in a classroom for X number of years they are an expert on Education. Nevermind the billions spent on healthcare in this Country with the outcome being completely unacceptable. You’ll bitch and moan about this teacher and that one, while you are more likely to get worse after you enter a US hospital than better…..

  61. Ragnar says:

    Libturd,
    I’d be willing to pony up $80k cash today in return for making public unions illegal, followed up with mass disbowelment of the public bureaucracies in NJ.
    It’s only 4 years of my current property tax bill, after all, and in terms of future cost savings, would probably be a positive NPV investment for me.

    But I’d leave NJ before paying $300k.

  62. Libturd in the City says:

    I rant about the healthcare system here all the time. I’m a huge supporter of single payer. But the corporate healthcare interests won’t let that happen.

    It’s not just NJ. My research into Costa Rica has me dumbfounded how they have higher rated healthcare at about 1/5th of the cost of ours. Hmmmmm. Yes, it’s rated higher, and not based on cost, but on quality.

    Now if they could just do something about the petty theft down there, I would be 100% sold on it. Right now, I’m about 80% sold. Vegas still calls me.

  63. NJT says:

    #12 [Grim]

    That’s a scary scenario. Maybe I/we will have to leave, if it comes to pass. Kids got us stuck here for…at least another six years.

  64. phoenix says:

    Rags
    If NPV is the most important thing to you, What do you suggest we do with the mentally ill,the sick and the handicapped?

  65. Libturd in the City says:

    Go Obamacare. Stick it to those overcharging uber-profitable insurers.

    http://finance.yahoo.com/echarts?s=UNH#{%22range%22:%222y%22,%22allowChartStacking%22:true}

  66. Libturd in the City says:

    “What do you suggest we do with the mentally ill,the sick and the handicapped?”

    Follow the DeBlasio example. Let them all move into the parks, bus and train terminals.

  67. Ragnar says:

    Libturd, 48
    Shareholders do say stuff about excessive executive compensation. But there are a lot of companies where boards are entrenched. So investors have to slowly erode their defenses one vote at a time. Activist investors actually do come in and change things up quickly, reconstituting the board, throwing out executives, and changing compensation plans very quickly. In comparison, I’ve almost never seen a politician (e.g. governor) go in and bust up the entrenched bureaucracy and waste as fast as some takeover/restructuring experts can in the private sector.

  68. Libturd in the City says:

    Rags. True about takeovers, but it’s far and in between.

  69. Ragnar says:

    phoenix,
    What % of the population is mentally ill, the sick, and handicapped?
    Don’t many have families and churches and charities?
    Handi-capable people aren’t helpless – many are fully self-supporting.

    The sick and the mentally ill can get jobs from the Soros foundation, moveon.org, and write endless posts on Daily kos and njrereport. Wait, I think that’s already happened.

  70. NJGator says:

    Grim 24 – Only problem with your math is that Guillermo’s actual pension amount will only be based on the last 3 years of what Passaic actually paid him. He could have worked in Clifton and Passaic part time for $1,500/year accruing pension credit and then his cousin who is a freeholder got him a sweetheart gig with lots of OT for 3 years and his entire pension would be based on that one FT job. Does Clifton wind up having to pay more in pension obligation than they ever paid him in salary?

  71. leftwing says:

    “No one questions how we are paying individuals millions of dollars in a year?”
    Every minute of every day. Whole Foods lost the confidence of its customers over its weight discrepancy. Showed in the numbers today and the stated cause by the company of slower store traffic. Stock down 4 points, 10%. The execs there are out some serious coin because they weren’t minding the store (haha, sorry) and thousands of people questioned it. Please show me the oversight and ‘penalty’ for the public sector.

    “Where does this money come from?”
    Millions of free people freely choosing whether to hand over their hard earned dollars for the wares and services provided. Unlike how the public sector gets its money, by taking it from me under threat of imprisonment.

  72. Libturd in the City says:

    I’m still waiting for someone to answer my question as to why public workers are guaranteed a good retirement regardless of market conditions until death and the rest of us are not. I’ve been looking through my retirement account rules and I can’t seem to find where it states that my gains earned will be based on the average of the five largest contributions I made over the lifetime of the account.

  73. Libturd in the City says:

    At least he is using soap. The lumps of flesh I have to slalom in Penn Station have never seen a bar of soap.

  74. NJT says:

    Three good friends of mine are around 50 and working at Fortune 500s where their job(s) are constantly under threat (H1-Bs, offshoring, RIF, mergers/aquisitions ect.) and they’re all AT LEAST 150K ‘underwater’. All of them have kids and a ‘stay at home’ wife, too.

    When they get laid off/let go (it will happen..happened to me 3 times) what do they do? FEW are going to hire an ‘old’ white guy at a salary that can support a family and mortgage payment in NJ.

    So glad I don’t have one anymore (mortgage).

  75. Libturd in the City says:

    “AT LEAST 150K ‘underwater’.”

    This is so common these days. In the past few years, I have read of three suicides by supposedly wealthy dads (all in Montclair). In almost every case, they off themselves rather than reveal to their stay-at-home wives and offspring that they’ve been living a charade of a life for they are actually broke. So are they bigger puss1es for not facing up to their families or for not being willing to live within their means?

  76. Nomad says:

    Lib,

    Every read stuff from Carl Richards i.e. the behavior gap? Great email a few weeks ago from him about perception and reality. Guy with little house and no mortgage vs guy w big house & benz but no savings living paycheck to paycheck.

    http://www.behaviorgap.com

    PS – punkin, how do you find time to post all day and do work?

  77. Libturd in the City says:

    Nomad. I’ll read it. Thanks for the recco.

  78. D-FENS says:

    http://www.mrctv.org/blog/planned-parenthood-plots-sale-legally-alive-fetuses-probably-going-get-caught-anti-states

    A Planned Parenthood executive plots harvesting of “intact” fetuses that are considered born-alive infants under federal law – and warns “they’re probably going to get caught” if they try it in anti-abortion states, a new undercover video by the Center for Medical Progress shows.

    Actors posed as representatives from a human biologics company in the video. They meet with Dr. Savita Ginde, Planned Parenthood of the Rocky Mountains’ Vice President and Medical Director. The meeting took place at the Denver abortion-clinic headquarters.

    “Sometimes, if we get, if someone delivers before we get to see them for a procedure, then we are intact,” Ginde says in the video. “We’d have to do a little bit of training with the providers or something to make sure that they don’t crush”

    For 2nd trimester procedures, Planned Parenthood does not use feticide or digoxin. This means that intact deliveries can possibly be born-alive infants according to 1 USC 8 of federal law.

    Later in the video, Ginde engages in negotiations for harvested organs. She says, “I think a per-item thing works a little better, just because we can see how much we can get out of it.”

    Perhaps, the most atrocious statements reveal that Planned Parenthood knows what they are doing is illegal and efforts are needed to conceal their program. “Putting it under ‘research’ gives us a little bit of an overhang over the whole thing,” Ginde remarks. “If you have someone in a really anti state who’s going to be doing this for you, they’re probably going to get caught.”

  79. The Great Pumpkin says:

    Amen. They will never see the light. They are too obsessed with hating only the govt. The private sector is a perfect god to people like rags. It can do no wrong. Just blame everything on the govt workers, it’s much easier this way.

    Ottoman says:
    July 30, 2015 at 9:21 am
    “How have I contributed to the CEO of say, GM? How have I contributed to the CFO of say, Burger King?”

    It’s cute that you think you’re intelligent.

    “Here’s a stark number for understanding how low-wage employers are relying on the kindness of taxpayers: $153 billion.

    That’s the annual bill that state and federal governments are footing for working families making poverty-level wages at big corporations such as Walmart (WMT) and McDonald’s (MCD), according to a new study from the University of California Berkeley Labor Center. Because these workers are paid so little, they are increasingly turning to government aid programs such as food stamps to keep them from dire poverty, the study found.”

    http://www.cbsnews.com/news/how-low-wage-employers-cost-taxpayers-153-billion-a-year/

  80. The Great Pumpkin says:

    Why can’t they understand this? I’ve been trying for over two years, but these guys are set in their ways. It’s always the poor’s fault (for being on welfare), or the govt workers fault for their taxes. No, it’s never the private sector’s fault for sucking up all the profits and eliminating jobs. They have nothing to do with it, it’s always the govt’s fault.

    I have a plan, eliminate all social programs. Eliminate all govt jobs. I want to see these people take their rage out on their masters when they can’t afford to put food on their plate. Angry and hungry packs of human beings on the streets…hope they are ready to defend themselves from the rage.

    phoenix says:
    July 30, 2015 at 9:29 am
    Libturd,
    First of all, the answer should NEVER allow any one group to benefit more than the others. So if cuts need to be made, all age groups, ALREADY RETIRED and still working, need to share in any pain equally.
    Secondly, we have tons of money to give to other nations, they have their hands out like beggars on 42nd street. Take some of that money and put it towards the the funding.
    Also, give them federal loans at the SAME RATE they lend money to the banks for. We seem to have no problem printing money for others, why not for us here. After all, it was the politicians that approved this, suck it up.
    The combo of increased funds, a haircut in reimbursement, and no interest loans should shore it up a bit.
    You wave the flag on the 4th of July for America.
    You offshore all the work you can.
    What you can not offshore you insource with visas.
    Then you use technology to get rid of the rest.
    I look at my neighbors, middle class people just trying to make a go of it, getting in the car every morning, coming home late at night, trying to put their kids thru school.
    Real Americans need a real leader and not someone bought and paid for.

  81. The Great Pumpkin says:

    You hate people, admit it. You look at human beings with disgust. Your logic says so. You would never help someone unless you are getting something out of it. Go move back to florida.

    Ragnar says:
    July 30, 2015 at 10:07 am
    Libturd,
    I’d be willing to pony up $80k cash today in return for making public unions illegal, followed up with mass disbowelment of the public bureaucracies in NJ.
    It’s only 4 years of my current property tax bill, after all, and in terms of future cost savings, would probably be a positive NPV investment for me.

    But I’d leave NJ before paying $300k.

  82. The Great Pumpkin says:

    Because it’s the right thing to do.

    It’s wrong to see so many private workers treated like crap. OH hail the private sector!!! They don’t pay their taxes and treat their top workers like gold, while crapping on the rest.

    Libturd in the City says:
    July 30, 2015 at 10:57 am
    I’m still waiting for someone to answer my question as to why public workers are guaranteed a good retirement regardless of market conditions until death and the rest of us are not. I’ve been looking through my retirement account rules and I can’t seem to find where it states that my gains earned will be based on the average of the five largest contributions I made over the lifetime of the account.

  83. Libturd in the City says:

    “Because it’s the right thing to do!”

    Why? Because you say so? I can’t wait for it all to collapse.

  84. The Great Pumpkin says:

    How many workers get away with this? It’s the hooked up elite crew, just like the private sector. Established businesses in monopoly environments shouldn’t be so rewarded at the top. It’s not a difficult job, but you are not complaining about paying for that. Yes, the economy is a whole, public or private, everything is related one way or the other. There is no industry that is not supported by the rest of the economy. They are all together. That’s why they measure the gdp.

    NJGator says:
    July 30, 2015 at 10:25 am
    Grim 24 – Only problem with your math is that Guillermo’s actual pension amount will only be based on the last 3 years of what Passaic actually paid him. He could have worked in Clifton and Passaic part time for $1,500/year accruing pension credit and then his cousin who is a freeholder got him a sweetheart gig with lots of OT for 3 years and his entire pension would be based on that one FT job. Does Clifton wind up having to pay more in pension obligation than they ever paid him in salary?

  85. The Great Pumpkin says:

    Then let it collapse. It’s wrong to be the richest country in the history of man, and have this many people living in poverty or just above it. It doesn’t make any sense.

    Libturd in the City says:
    July 30, 2015 at 12:47 pm
    “Because it’s the right thing to do!”

    Why? Because you say so? I can’t wait for it all to collapse.

  86. Libturd in the City says:

    I’m really done with you Plumpy. I tried. I think for myself. You ought it to try it some time.

  87. joyce says:

    59-60
    Did you really make those two posts back to back ??

  88. Libturd in the City says:

    Plumpy. Take a trip to India, or China, or the Philippines or Mexico. Then come back here and make that same statement.

  89. Libturd in the City says:

    Noticed that too Joyce. Sadly, Essex is probably right about the outcome. We will pay for it and then will eat cat food.

  90. Fast Eddie says:

    G0d bless the rich and the 1% for giving us a platform to make a good living as well as offering so many perks and benefits for our efforts.

  91. The Great Pumpkin says:

    I am paid on salary. Half of the time, I am waiting on data from other individuals. Don’t judge a person’s job that you know nothing about. Do you know how many times I have to stay late, waiting around for stupid data from someone that hasn’t put together their report?

    Nomad says:
    July 30, 2015 at 12:06 pm
    Lib,

    Every read stuff from Carl Richards i.e. the behavior gap? Great email a few weeks ago from him about perception and reality. Guy with little house and no mortgage vs guy w big house & benz but no savings living paycheck to paycheck.

    http://www.behaviorgap.com

    PS – punkin, how do you find time to post all day and do work?

  92. The Great Pumpkin says:

    Yes, their elite rip them off to no end. Ever see the social structure of India. Come on, now. Carlos Slim is sucking Mexico dry, he owns everything. Not giving crap back to the people. That’s how a Mexican was the richest individual in the world a few years back. I can see the fast eddies of mexico worshiping carlos slim for their jobs. Idiots.

    Libturd in the City says:
    July 30, 2015 at 12:52 pm
    Plumpy. Take a trip to India, or China, or the Philippines or Mexico. Then come back here and make that same statement.

  93. HouseWhineWine says:

    Isn’t it a slippery slope to renege on a pension that was promised? If it’s o.k. to do so for public employees, are private pensions next? To be fair, what always struck me as grossly unfair was that NJ public school teachers did not have to contribute at all to their healthcare insurance. That was just plain wrong. I believe they have a small contribution now. How is it morally right that your next door neighbor, friends in NJ have to have some skin in the game and you don’t? I tried discussing this with two teacher friends and realized that I was not as special as they were, in this respect.

  94. joyce says:

    “That’s why they measure the gdp.”

    I have no retort; I just wanted to repeat this thunderous closing line.

  95. joyce says:

    Gary,
    I know you’re repeating yourself for effect, as am I with this post. But when you say that it sounds just as stupid as when JJ blesses free market capitalism and just as stupid as anything the Idiot says.

  96. Libturd in the City says:

    “are private pensions next?”

    Next? First, who still has one. Second, tons of them have been raided or just outright frozen. Gators was. I never had the distinct honor of being eligible to participate in one, nor would I have trusted it would have been paid. I’ve never had much faith in Social Security either so I’ve saved on my own.

  97. Ragnar says:

    This was forwarded to me. Have no idea if true, but should cover a little bit of the pension shortfall.
    New Jersey State Police Ticketing:
    Here’s the latest NJ State Police Initiative (Radio Station NJ 101.5 confirmed this info).

    Starting July 28, New Jersey will launch a 30-day speeding ticket frenzy.
    The state estimates that 9 million dollars will generated in speeding tickets.
    One million dollars will go to pay state troopers over-time.

    The will be 50 state troopers on duty at all times patrolling the 9 main intersections and highways as follows:

    I-295 North and South,
    I-95 Jersey Turnpike North and South,
    I-80 East and West,
    I-287 North and South,
    I-78 East and West,
    I-195 East and West,
    I-280 East and West,
    Route 130 North and South,
    Garden State Parkway North and South.

    5 MPH above the limit can justify a ticket and every state trooper is supposed to pull a car over and write a ticket every to 20 minutes.

    They have issued 30 brand new unmarked Crown Victoria cruisers and are bringing in all of their part-timers on full time you work in NJ, NY, DE or CT, you will probably be on one of this highways.
    So, please be on guard and drive safely!

    Starting August 15, the price of a violation to show your driver’s license, registration or insurance card at the time you are stopped, increased from $44.00 to $173.00 (Keep these documents in your car). And the fine for not having all three documents is $519.00!

    The fine for hand-held cell phone use while driving will be going up to $180.00.

  98. HouseWhineWine says:

    98. We have a private pension. Just because it’s not very common anymore, doesn’t mean they don’t exist. Why make such a blanket statement? Two wrongs don’t make a right, you know?

  99. Libturd in the City says:

    House,

    If I told you I would sell you my car for $1. Would you buy it? Of course you would. If I told you you could have free healthcare for your family for life(if you vote for me), hell yeah you would. Well I’m not selling you my car for $1.

  100. D-FENS says:

    Something I just can’t get over is that Michael is possibly helping to manage one of the funds in somebody’s 401k. Boggles the mind. He has zero business sense.

  101. Ragnar says:

    Pumpkin,
    If you get promoted a couple times someday you can go home to dinner on time, and let the people reporting to you stay late to get those reports done.

  102. D-FENS says:

    We live in a fcuked up world.

  103. Libturd in the City says:

    Two wrongs don’t make a right. So I would expect the government workers would have no issue with making up for the shortfall in my 401k, if does not earn me 8% a year. And if somehow the money runs out before I die, they can make up that shortfall too. I am obligated to help them. It should be mutual.

  104. Libturd in the City says:

    Speaking of promises broken by the government. Where’s my homestead rebate? Did the governor not reneg on my rebate?

  105. Libturd in the City says:

    I was promised a rebate. Waaaaaaaa!

  106. Essex says:

    34. it’s an ecosystem — at it’s nucleus.

  107. HouseWhineWine says:

    My point was that the teachers I know did not even begin to understand the concept that they SHOULD feel obligated to contribute towards their own healthcare coverage. Of course, who wouldn’t agree to pay zero or almost nothing? But, give me a break and at least admit that you aren’t above the lowly private sector. I got blank looks from all the teachers I knew when I told them how badly the recession had hit my industry. They simply didn’t get it, nor did they even pretend to.

  108. Juice Box says:

    re # 76 – Life Insurance?

  109. Ragnar says:

    D-FENS,
    The title confuses you. “Financial Analyst” is a corporate finance job, in the lower rung of a corporate finance department, usually staffed by people right out of college, or less motivated/less talented people with more years of experience. They are normally putting together reports that other people ask them to do, and passing it up to the next level. Good ones have an eye for catching mistakes, might be able to think up new reports or processes, suggest process improvements. Next step up would be called a finance manager or something like that, then higher still would be VP or director.

    What you’re thinking when you hear “financial analyst” is actually a job called Equity Research Analyst, in the field of investment management. There are a lot fewer of these than “financial analysts”. There are some on the “sell side” who work for Investment Banks basically sending out research as a way to advertise trading with their bank. There are also “buy side” equity research analysts, who work for investment managers to help judge which stocks to buy. They usually have MBAs and/or CFA designations, and are supposed to be brilliant, but I’ve seen plenty of analysts that Libturd could probably out-analyze.

  110. Libturd in the City says:

    Not for suicide.

  111. Libturd in the City says:

    “I’ve seen plenty of analysts that Libturd could probably out-analyze.”

    Thanks for the bid of confidence there big guy.

  112. JJ says:

    Thank God when us 1% go to Heaven we get our own upgraded section. Doing the Lord’s work has its perks.

    Fast Eddie says:
    July 30, 2015 at 12:53 pm
    G0d bless the rich and the 1% for giving us a platform to make a good living as well as offering so many perks and benefits for our efforts.

  113. JJ says:

    Does he Anal-ize them with a broom stick?

    Libturd in the City says:
    July 30, 2015 at 1:27 pm
    “I’ve seen plenty of analysts that Libturd could probably out-analyze.”

    Thanks for the bid of confidence there big guy.

  114. Ragnar says:

    HouseWhineWine,
    If teachers, and the education system were opened up to market forces:
    1) Customer satisfaction would rise
    2) Good teachers would be better rewarded
    3) Bad teachers would be more easily driven from the system
    4) Teachers would become more educated about capitalism, a system many seem to fear and hate, having been cocooned in an alien environment of government and government unions.

  115. Ragnar says:

    Lib,
    Now what to do about CNI?

  116. Alex Bevan says:

    109

    They started paying in 2011 I believe. It’s a sliding scale in our district phased in over several years based upon salary, up to 35% of the cost of the policy for the top tier of the salary guide. I think my wife’s policy was valued at $28k this year.

    So the mythical 100k teacher is paying about 9k for her free health care.

  117. joyce says:

    Oklahoma City has become a medical tourist destination, according to an industry expert, leading the charge for a different method of healthcare delivery, specifically one that embraces the principles and fundamentals of the free market.

    Dr. Keith Smith is a local physician who believes in a free market healthcare system. He is a strong advocate for transparent pricing.

    “Oklahoma City has become a major medical tourist destination because of entrepreneurial physicians committed to quality and value,” said Dr. Smith. “People have been flying in all over the country and outside to get their care in Oklahoma.”

    http://newsok.com/why-has-oklahoma-city-become-a-medical-tourism-destination/article/5434353/?page=2

  118. phoenix says:

    98 Libturd
    Yet you pay into the system as you do not have a choice.
    You pay into a system where someone ACTUALLY is getting something in return, maybe MORE in return then they paid in.
    I think it should be made solvent so you should be able to have faith in it.
    You put your real dollars from real work into it.
    Which is why I feel a pimple faced kid working at Mickey D should not have money taken out that they do not have a chance of getting anything back in return.
    How to fix, cut expenditure, increase inflow. Not one or the other.
    Balance it for all, then keep it balanced. Period.

    “I’ve never had much faith in Social Security either so I’ve saved on my own.”

  119. phoenix says:

    116. Ragnar, HWW,
    HouseWhineWine,
    If teachers, and the education system were opened up to market forces:
    1)Middle class children will be taught at home on an IPAD.
    2)Middle class children will tested by a computer at home.
    3)Prices will stay the same, just like online college courses (where are the savings?)
    4)One teacher will be able to teach hundreds of middle class children.
    5) Company that greases the palm of the politician will get the teaching contract.
    6) Wealthy children will go to private schools with actual human contact (job
    connections later in life, friends help friends)

  120. D-FENS says:

    Fleeing New Jersey, and Its Crushing Taxes, for a Better Life

    http://www.nationalreview.com/article/421625/states-new-jersey-south-taxes

  121. joyce says:

    phoenix,
    Instead of getting through all the politics and demagoguery to actually cut benefits and increase taxes AND continue to do one or both of those in the future to keep it balanced … why not take steps to end the program?

    End the current payroll taxes, send out smaller checks until the mythical trust fund is depleted. I could go deeper into the numbers (but why bother cause this won’t happen). I think the easiest program to manage is no program at all.

  122. joyce says:

    Then privatize it rather than outsourcing.

    phoenix says:
    July 30, 2015 at 1:46 pm

    5) Company that greases the palm of the politician will get the teaching contract.

  123. phoenix says:

    123 Joyce, could be a good idea, but you would have to start at a time in the future before anyone who paid in at all.
    Then it would be ok.
    No grandfathering, no phase in, no 2 tier. It’s all smoke and mirrors.

  124. The Great Pumpkin says:

    I don’t have business sense? Then how do I make so much money? I don’t make it all from a job.

    Rags wants me to move up and I ask why? I already make enough money to not worry about it.

    Lib, makes over 200k and he would rather trade his job with a teacher, because they have a pension. I’m sure Ben would love to trade you his teaching job. Lib, you make over 200k, have a wife that works, and are as frugal as can be, yet it’s not enough. When will it be enough?

    D-FENS says:
    July 30, 2015 at 1:12 pm
    Something I just can’t get over is that Michael is possibly helping to manage one of the funds in somebody’s 401k. Boggles the mind. He has zero business sense.

  125. JJ says:

    Teachers are lazy.

  126. The Great Pumpkin says:

    Why do hate everyone except management? Why? You have a disease. Open up your heart, life’s much better helping people as opposed to hating them and complaining about how their life should be ruined because they are poor or work for the govt. It must be miserable to have so much hate occupy your life on a daily basis.

    Ragnar says:
    July 30, 2015 at 1:26 pm
    D-FENS,
    The title confuses you. “Financial Analyst” is a corporate finance job, in the lower rung of a corporate finance department, usually staffed by people right out of college, or less motivated/less talented people with more years of experience. They are normally putting together reports that other people ask them to do, and passing it up to the next level. Good ones have an eye for catching mistakes, might be able to think up new reports or processes, suggest process improvements. Next step up would be called a finance manager or something like that, then higher still would be VP or director.

    What you’re thinking when you hear “financial analyst” is actually a job called Equity Research Analyst, in the field of investment management. There are a lot fewer of these than “financial analysts”. There are some on the “sell side” who work for Investment Banks basically sending out research as a way to advertise trading with their bank. There are also “buy side” equity research analysts, who work for investment managers to help judge which stocks to buy. They usually have MBAs and/or CFA designations, and are supposed to be brilliant, but I’ve seen plenty of analysts that Libturd could probably out-analyze.

  127. clotluva says:

    Punkin (93) “Don’t judge a person’s job that you know nothing about.”

    vs.

    Punkin (20) “Why aren’t you more angry with the unfair executive packages that are totally unfair.”

    Go troll elsewhere.

  128. Essex says:

    Always hire a lazy man to do the job JJ. Bill Gates

  129. joyce says:

    understand your logic. However, I and I think a good portion of others would be willing to forgoe any future SS benefits if I could stop paying those taxes right now…as well as not being on the hook for any future liabilities.

    If you or others (and I understand this position) want to keep paying in as well as get whatever benefits are available, that’s okay with me too as long as I can opt out

  130. The Great Pumpkin says:

    So are the fat cats, that sit behind a desk all day fuc!ing their secretary all day.

    JJ says:
    July 30, 2015 at 2:25 pm
    Teachers are lazy.

  131. joyce says:

    ^^^Was responding to phoenix.

  132. joyce says:

    “Then how do I make so much money”

    Your parent’s helped you get a loan to buy a house discounted severely from another relative… and your wife works.

    “Lib, makes over 200k and he would rather trade his job with a teacher, ”

    Pretty sure that’s his household income, but I’ll let him respond.

  133. The Great Pumpkin says:

    Go screw clot.

    clotluva says:
    July 30, 2015 at 2:26 pm
    Punkin (93) “Don’t judge a person’s job that you know nothing about.”

    vs.

    Punkin (20) “Why aren’t you more angry with the unfair executive packages that are totally unfair.”

    Go troll elsewhere.

  134. joyce says:

    clutlova,
    Ouch, that must have hurt. He destroyed your argument.

  135. Juice Box says:

    re: # 99 – there have been allot of troopers out lately, but this is baloney.

    http://nj1015.com/is-there-a-speeding-ticket-frenzy-coming-to-new-jersey/

  136. The Great Pumpkin says:

    Joyce, I’ll let you think what you want about me. I have nothing to prove. Everyone that knows me knows how well I am at putting money to work. My dad knew when I was 10, that I would never be poor. Think whatever you want, you already have your assumptions laid out.

    These our lib’s words below, not mine.

    “There are 300,000 people in NJ making over 200K (that makes me an executive I guess). The shortfall is 90 billion. So if everyone making over 200K must write a check to make the pension whole, they would each owe $300,000. Realistically, I would posit that there are around 5,000 executives in the state. So if they each send in a check for $18 million, we’ll be fine. Of course, the underlying issue (the fact that the benefits are too rich in the first place) still remains, so in another decade or two, we’ll have to do this all over again.”

    joyce says:
    July 30, 2015 at 2:29 pm
    “Then how do I make so much money”

    Your parent’s helped you get a loan to buy a house discounted severely from another relative… and your wife works.

    “Lib, makes over 200k and he would rather trade his job with a teacher, ”

    Pretty sure that’s his household income, but I’ll let him respond.

  137. The Great Pumpkin says:

    I’m sick of being nice. I’ll give it right back to you guys. You have been wailing on me for a long time with no pushback.

    joyce says:
    July 30, 2015 at 2:31 pm
    clutlova,
    Ouch, that must have hurt. He destroyed your argument.

  138. homeboken says:

    Pumpkin – I have a theoritcal scenario for you:

    Propose you work in a team with 11 others. All 12 of you make the exact same salary and benefits, inside the office. Outside your personal lives match current reality. Your company is going to have lay-offs. Your entire team is brought in and offered the following:

    1. We will eliminate the jobs of 2 people. We may use your evaluations or not. We alone will determine who gets laid off and who stays.
    2. You can all share in head-count reductions by participating in the new mandatory furlough program. You are each required to take 2 months of unpaid vacation in the next year.
    Which do you choose? I have a follow up depending on your choice.

  139. anon (the good one) says:

    @DanScavino:

    Reuters National #GOP Poll

    #1 @realDonaldTrump 20.4%
    #2 Jeb Bush 10.8%
    #3 Rand Paul 6.5%
    #MakeAmericaGreatAgain

  140. homeboken says:

    FYI – The “we” above is considered management. They control who is laid off and who is kept. No employee input or volunteering will be considered.

  141. The Great Pumpkin says:

    We get it, you want nothing to do with helping all the screw ups out there. You handle yours, so the others should be left for dead if they cannot do the same. What do you say, start in kindergarten? Anyone that can’t perform to a certain level should be put out of their misery because a bunch of conservatives do not want to help them survive later in life. We will be a spartan based society, only the strong survive.

    FYI, this is sick being we are the dominant species on the planet with more than enough resources to go around. People starving, yet dunkin donuts will throw out dozens of donuts every night. Just not enough resources to go around, but we are throwing out food. All about that dollar.

    joyce says:
    July 30, 2015 at 2:27 pm
    understand your logic. However, I and I think a good portion of others would be willing to forgoe any future SS benefits if I could stop paying those taxes right now…as well as not being on the hook for any future liabilities.

    If you or others (and I understand this position) want to keep paying in as well as get whatever benefits are available, that’s okay with me too as long as I can opt out

  142. anon (the good one) says:

    @SenSanders:

    America is the only major nation in the industrialized world that does not guarantee health care as a right

  143. anon (the good one) says:

    @SenSanders:

    As a moral society our job is to ask: do we believe that everyone is entitled to health care?
    -Sen. Sanders

  144. xolepa says:

    Ragnar,
    That may be an old one. Sounded of a press note I read many years ago.

    http://money.cnn.com/2011/09/15/autos/last_crown_victoria/

  145. clotluva says:

    Joyce,

    I do like how his/her persona has evolved from fake earnestness to vigilant piousness. (Coincidentally, neither persona seems to place a high value on logic.)

  146. The Great Pumpkin says:

    Know where you are going with this. Why bring up hypothetical situations that don’t really apply to the real world. Why are these people suddenly being forced out?

    I have a better question for you. Why are there not enough jobs? Why is every single person not given a job? That applies to your first option, meaning, why do we pick winners and losers. Why isn’t everyone given an opportunity to have a job? If they screw up that opportunity, so be it, but why is everyone not given the option to work based on whatever skill level they are at? Why?

    homeboken says:
    July 30, 2015 at 2:41 pm
    Pumpkin – I have a theoritcal scenario for you:

    Propose you work in a team with 11 others. All 12 of you make the exact same salary and benefits, inside the office. Outside your personal lives match current reality. Your company is going to have lay-offs. Your entire team is brought in and offered the following:

    1. We will eliminate the jobs of 2 people. We may use your evaluations or not. We alone will determine who gets laid off and who stays.
    2. You can all share in head-count reductions by participating in the new mandatory furlough program. You are each required to take 2 months of unpaid vacation in the next year.
    Which do you choose? I have a follow up depending on your choice.

  147. homeboken says:

    If you don’t want to play back with hypotheticals, that’s cool, I get it. But if you truly can’t answer the questions you pose below, then I don’t think you have the mental ability to argue the points you are trying to defend on this board.

    “Why are there not enough jobs? Why is every single person not given a job? That applies to your first option, meaning, why do we pick winners and losers. Why isn’t everyone given an opportunity to have a job?”

  148. NJT says:

    As a kid in rural NJ (Northern Rockaway Twp. Morris County – it was RURAL/REDNECK back then) Doctors still made house calls…somtimes the bill was paid with barter goods, and this was in the early 70s!

    In 1987? I got Chicken pox (rare for someone my age and potentialy fatal). Doc came out one last time. Was a good man. Smoked like a factory but told me to quit. I’m workin’ on it. Damn good cigars…

  149. homeboken says:

    And Pumpkin – the situation is hypothetical because it doesn’t directly apply here. But I know personally of a situation where the employees were offered this exact choice, so not entirely hypothetical.

  150. Marilyn says:

    I love reading this page now even more. It just confirms all my decisions.

  151. The Great Pumpkin says:

    Oh I know the answer. It’s because people in advantageous positions take advatange of the weak. Our society doesn’t have to be set up this way. There is enough to go around. Who is debt owed to, huh? You people speak of debts, without understanding these debts are owed to someone. How can we not afford this type of society if the debts our owed to ourselves….really should say the 1% who own everything. How can it be impossible to pay back debts, if they are owed to ourselves. If a debt is so large that it can’t be paid back, who the hell is this debt owed to and how did the majority of the population become a slave to this debt?

    Call me an idiot all you want, I’m not blinded by conservatism or the status quo. I know who is robbing who, and it sure as hell is not the poor on welfare, or the govt worker getting a pension.

    homeboken says:
    July 30, 2015 at 2:55 pm
    If you don’t want to play back with hypotheticals, that’s cool, I get it. But if you truly can’t answer the questions you pose below, then I don’t think you have the mental ability to argue the points you are trying to defend on this board.

    “Why are there not enough jobs? Why is every single person not given a job? That applies to your first option, meaning, why do we pick winners and losers. Why isn’t everyone given an opportunity to have a job?”

  152. Marilyn says:

    Look come take a ride out to Lake Foreclosure. Come see the mess of NW NJ. Come see the no traffic or businesses all on Route 23. This was once a thriving , growing State. Now its abandon city (Utopia Song) . This is now spreading to lower Wayne, and I have seen a few empty wrecks now in Waldwick. Its not getting better, unless you got some great job, your sunk. I meet people all day and talk and they are making about 70K. I have a friend who runs Pascack Auto Repair. He makes too much to afford health insurance for his family but I guess 80K is too much in NJ and running a business and trying to make it. Things are not good until we LOWER TAXES. The State is not in growth phase anymore. The stages of a city are growth, stabilization, decline and the revitalization. I can see that NJ is in the decline phase. If all taxes were lowered across the board things would be better.

  153. D-FENS says:

    Michael, maybe it is you who should “open your heart”

    The Conservative Heart
    How to Build a Fairer, Happier, and More Prosperous America

    by Arthur C. Brooks
    On Sale: 07/14/2015

    http://www.harpercollins.com/9780062319753/the-conservative-heart

    About the Book

    The prominent economist and president of the American Enterprise Institute—the leading intellectual think tank on the right—offers a bold new vision for conservatism as a movement for social and economic justice.
    In The Conservative Heart, Arthur C. Brooks contends that after years of focusing on economic growth and traditional social values, it is time for a new kind of conservatism—one that helps the vulnerable without mortgaging our children’s future. In Brooks’ daring vision, this conservative movement fights poverty, promotes equal opportunity, celebrates earned success, and values spiritual enlightenment. It is an inclusive movement with a positive agenda to help people lead happier, more hopeful, and more satisfied lives.
    One of the country’s leading scholars and policy thinkers, Brooks has considered these issues for decades. Drawing on years of research on the sources of happiness, he asserts that what people most need are four “institutions of meaning”—faith, family, community, and meaningful work. These are not only the foundations of personal wellbeing, but also the necessary means for building a better nation.
    Combining reporting, original research, and case studies, and free of vituperative politics, The Conservative Heart is an intelligent and compelling manifesto for renewal. Clear, well-reasoned, and accessible, it is a welcome new strategy for disconsolate conservatives looking for fresh, actionable ideas to address the serious problems confronting us today and to reclaim our future, and for politically independent citizens who believe that neither political party addresses their needs or concerns.

  154. Libturd in the City says:

    Who said I make 200K?

    I’ve never revealed my salary. With that said, my AGI probably higher than most here, but that’s because I run 3 million or so through the machines down in Atlantic City.

  155. homeboken says:

    Pumpkin – I never “said” you were an idiot, I may have thought those words, but never typed them… You seem to be caught up arguing that the world should operate in the way that a text-book describes. Your ideas around debt and credit, employment and wages, and income equality are not at all reflective of the real world.

    You are getting very worked up and emotional the past few days. Have you considered taking a break from this board? It can’t be good for you mental health.

  156. The Great Pumpkin says:

    I have said this on here before, but someone in the know stated 287 is the cutoff line in northern jersey. All the development and expansion will take place in this area. Go take a look at jersey city. Sussex is dead, it’s too far out. Now picture across the country, how many places are like Sussex. North Carolina has way more Sussex type counties than jersey. This is why I say middle America is dead. Coastal locations will thrive unless resources are found in the inner lands.

    Marilyn says:
    July 30, 2015 at 3:05 pm
    Look come take a ride out to Lake Foreclosure. Come see the mess of NW NJ. Come see the no traffic or businesses all on Route 23. This was once a thriving , growing State. Now its abandon city (Utopia Song) . This is now spreading to lower Wayne, and I have seen a few empty wrecks now in Waldwick. Its not getting better, unless you got some great job, your sunk. I meet people all day and talk and they are making about 70K. I have a friend who runs Pascack Auto Repair. He makes too much to afford health insurance for his family but I guess 80K is too much in NJ and running a business and trying to make it. Things are not good until we LOWER TAXES. The State is not in growth phase anymore. The stages of a city are growth, stabilization, decline and the revitalization. I can see that NJ is in the decline phase. If all taxes were lowered across the board things would be better.

  157. D-FENS says:

    For example, take the proposal to increase the minimum wage. Conservatives have many reasons to believe that it is the wrong way to help the working poor. First, when the cost of hiring unskilled workers rises, businesses hire fewer of them. Brooks believes that the key to personal happiness is “earned success.” A higher minimum wage means that fewer people have the opportunity to experience it.

    Second, because some of the costs of a higher minimum wage are passed on to consumers in the form of higher prices, it hurts those who buy these goods and services, like meals at fast-food restaurants. The economist Thomas MaCurdy of Stanford University reports that this price effect “is more regressive than a typical state sales tax.”

    Third, the minimum wage is not well targeted to those living in poverty. Of workers affected by an increase in the minimum wage, more than half belong to families making more than $35,000 a year, and almost a quarter belong to families making more than $75,000 a year. If we were evaluating a government spending program to combat poverty, no one would be satisfied if so many of the program’s beneficiaries were already living well above the poverty line (about $24,000 for a family of four).

    Fourth, there is a better way to help the working poor: the earned-income tax credit. This income supplement is well targeted to families living in poverty, it does not raise the prices of goods and services produced by low-wage workers and it does not discourage firms from hiring these workers. By incentivizing work, it increases the number of people enjoying earned success.

    Brooks finds arguments like these persuasive (as do I). But they do not fit neatly on a bumper sticker. This stuff appeals only to policy wonks, who represent a tiny fraction of the electorate.

    “It’s time to give America a raise.” That is how President Obama explained why he wants to increase the minimum wage.

    Such a great sound bite plays well on the evening news. Of course, it does not rebut any of the conservative arguments against a higher minimum wage, but it carries a clear implication: The president’s political opponents don’t think America deserves a raise

  158. The Great Pumpkin says:

    I prob do need a break. I’ve been lashing out, and that’s not me. It’s not a text book outlook of the world. It’s a Bernie sanders view of the world. Why can’t we try something better? There are a lot of people out there that are worth a lot more than they report. Trust me, there is enough to go around, but too much greed at the top to ever let that happen.

    Can you answer my question. I don’t think there is anything textbook about it, so please answer.

    If a debt is so large that it can’t be paid back, who the hell is this debt owed to and how did the majority of the population become a slave to this debt?

    homeboken says:
    July 30, 2015 at 3:19 pm
    Pumpkin – I never “said” you were an idiot, I may have thought those words, but never typed them… You seem to be caught up arguing that the world should operate in the way that a text-book describes. Your ideas around debt and credit, employment and wages, and income equality are not at all reflective of the real world.

    You are getting very worked up and emotional the past few days. Have you considered taking a break from this board? It can’t be good for you mental health.

  159. 3b says:

    #156 lib post 33 could be interpreted as indicating you make 200k. Just saying.

  160. Marilyn says:

    Pumpkin I think you may be correct on where to live in NJ. I don’t agree with your tax plans but I agree with your location ideas. SO next time if I find out Im living in tobacco fields and with rural poverty in Raleigh I will hit you up to find me the perfect location. I have a friend who is buying a house in Long Branch, NJ Atlantic ave. 1 block from Ocean. What do you think of that location?

  161. The Great Pumpkin says:

    159- You miss the whole point. Why is everyone not given a job? If they don’t do their job or want the job, let them die. Instead we have welfare, which is by design set up to help the rich. It keeps people from getting too desperate to rise up and at the same time it dictates that they will live with a lot less, so that the top can keep more profit. Best part, most of the welfare is payed by workers through their taxes. So the rich get the workers to help out with the cost of the poor, which should be the rich’s sole responsibility.

  162. Libturd in the City says:

    Thanks 3b. Yes, I should have stated that there are that many tax returns filed where the income stated was >200K. Thanks for the correction.

  163. Marilyn says:

    Pumpkin don’t you know the quote , “give a man a fish and you feed him for a day, teach a man to fish you feed him for a lifetime.

  164. Libturd in the City (channeling jj) says:

    ” I have a friend who is buying a house in Long Branch, NJ Atlantic ave. 1 block from Ocean. What do you think of that location?”

    Are they gay?

  165. homeboken says:

    Here is your answer – Even though you refused to answer me:

    If a debt is so large that it can’t be paid back, who the hell is this debt owed to and how did the majority of the population become a slave to this debt?

    A – All debt can be paid back, it is a mathematical certainty. One only needs to redirect payments from one or all other avenues and apply them to the reduction of the debt you describe. There is no debt that “can’t” be repaid, only debt that “won’t” be repaid.

  166. Marilyn says:

    they are the hippie types. Very Woodstock.

  167. 3b says:

    #164 lib: welcome. I still pop in on occasion. Today s discussion reminds me of the old times. One point that I believe little time is spent discussing is that the out of control spending that in many instances is self inflicted. I have witnessed it for years in the original brigadoon.

  168. Leigh says:

    For one minute please consider if all those promised pensions actually do not get paid. All these retired teachers, firemen, police, etc. – you think with that loss of income they’re going to stay in NJ with ever increasing property taxes, cost of living? They will move because they’re at a point in their life they’re looking to retire and minimize their expenses, so most likely, if their pensions are cut – they’re gone. This means their houses are sold (perhaps at a discount) and the people that do move into NJ are probably on a lower economic rung on the ladder being less able to afford these houses and ever increasing property taxes. So I sorta think NJ is in trouble regardless, primarily because the unfunded liabilities are crushing. People are looking to get out and escape this crushing cost of every day expenses and future liabilities. I would suggest everyone prepare a way to get out; barring a miraculous reversal. It’s very difficult for me to see a good outcome for NJ and buying a house in NJ now is a very, very dicy preposition unless it is bought very, very smart.

  169. anon (the good one) says:

    you don’t have kids, why it took so long for you to leave?

    Marilyn says:
    July 30, 2015 at 2:58 pm
    I love reading this page now even more. It just confirms all my decisions.

  170. The Great Pumpkin says:

    I’ll answer your question. Obviously, option two. Too bad it will never go through. The other workers will go into self preservation mode and screw each other over….greed sucks.

    Thanks for answering. I have a few more questions. So who willingly loaned out money to the majority of the population? Did they realize that this would put the majority of the population into a desperate situation, therefore creating an opportunity to gain power from this debt? Who gains an advantage on the rest of the population from this debt?

    homeboken says:
    July 30, 2015 at 3:34 pm
    Here is your answer – Even though you refused to answer me:

    If a debt is so large that it can’t be paid back, who the hell is this debt owed to and how did the majority of the population become a slave to this debt?

    A – All debt can be paid back, it is a mathematical certainty. One only needs to redirect payments from one or all other avenues and apply them to the reduction of the debt you describe. There is no debt that “can’t” be repaid, only debt that “won’t” be repaid.

  171. Comrade Nom Deplume, Thankfully Not Greek says:

    Traffic on the parkway blows so I’m camping out in Montclair. Anybody out there that I owe a drink to?

  172. homeboken says:

    170 – Leigh says “They will move because they’re at a point in their life they’re looking to retire and minimize their expenses, so most likely, if their pensions are cut – they’re gone. ” …”nd the people that do move into NJ are probably on a lower economic rung on the ladder.”

    The people that enter the market are presumably net contributors to the tax rolls. That is, they will seek employment and pay taxes into the system. The retiree provides no service, yet takes payments from the system. They are the lowest rung on the economic ladder as they provide no service yet are receipients of payments. Their departure from the state would be a net benefit to the system, EXCEPT, they take their pension payments with them where ever they go. So in a sense, better to keep them in state and have them spend it here.
    If their pensions are cut – It won’t matter what state they live in. They won’t be able to afford living in NJ or Alaska.

  173. Grim says:

    You should have stopped into the distillery

  174. anon (the good one) says:

    ” I would suggest everyone prepare a way to get out”

    this endless, endless talk about leaving while staying firmly in place. even Gary traded up to permanently stay here.

  175. The Great Pumpkin says:

    That’s why we need this fed loan for the pensions. It makes the liabilities very manageable. This plan will save jersey. With big business returning, the tax revenues will increase and bring jersey back. I truly believe this.

    Leigh says:
    July 30, 2015 at 3:41 pm
    For one minute please consider if all those promised pensions actually do not get paid. All these retired teachers, firemen, police, etc. – you think with that loss of income they’re going to stay in NJ with ever increasing property taxes, cost of living? They will move because they’re at a point in their life they’re looking to retire and minimize their expenses, so most likely, if their pensions are cut – they’re gone. This means their houses are sold (perhaps at a discount) and the people that do move into NJ are probably on a lower economic rung on the ladder being less able to afford these houses and ever increasing property taxes. So I sorta think NJ is in trouble regardless, primarily because the unfunded liabilities are crushing. People are looking to get out and escape this crushing cost of every day expenses and future liabilities. I would suggest everyone prepare a way to get out; barring a miraculous reversal. It’s very difficult for me to see a good outcome for NJ and buying a house in NJ now is a very, very dicy preposition unless it is bought very, very smart.

  176. Ragnar says:

    Oh Pumpkin,
    Sometimes I hate people in management too.
    My career is a crusade against wasting resources and wasting capital.
    Because the saving and investment of capital, deployed to its highest and most productive purpose, by free exchange, is what drives up human living standards and wealth over the centuries.
    The opposite destroys wealth and deters progress.

  177. Comrade Nom Deplume, Thankfully Not Greek says:

    [175] grim

    Was trying to get as far south as I could before getting clotted in.

  178. Leigh says:

    174 – good point, but it won’t do much for future NJ house values regardless, and that is the concern.

  179. homeboken says:

    Pumpkin says – So who willingly loaned out money to the majority of the population? Did they realize that this would put the majority of the population into a desperate situation, therefore creating an opportunity to gain power from this debt? Who gains an advantage on the rest of the population from this debt?

    You are a financial analyst – you know the answers to all these questions.

    When debt is issued the lender evaluates the likelihood of repayment and cost they associate with using their dollars to lend to someone else or invest elsewhere. This is the credit evaluation. The lender makes a loan at an interest rate that incents them to send real dollars to a borrower for some other purpose, be it starting a small business, buying an ipad on credit, or as sources needed for a home purchase.

    When a loan is made a debt is created. As it’s been said here – Debt does not mean wealth and new debt does not create anything except a swap of assets for liabilty that we will be paid back over an agreeed upon time. Both parties are complicit and understanding what the debt contract means. Lender and Borrower know their role, doesn’t matter if it is an institution borrowing a billion dollars to finance the purchase of the The Palace Hotel or a single mom swiping her credit card to buy milk for her kids. The transaction is EXACTLY the same deal, only the size of the debt is different.

  180. xolepa says:

    (168) You got something against Woodstock? hehe. Saw Neil Young there 2 weeks ago. 3 uninterrupted hours of pure musicianship.

    Talking about Woodstock, seems they opened up the Catskill Distillery right near Yasgur’s Farm. Yes, the farm still exists. Any one privy to their products?

    My apologies grim, don’t know where yours is, but I avoid NE NJ like the plague. Only business I have there is shooting thru on 287 towards the Tappan Zee and beyond.

  181. Marilyn says:

    172 Denial

  182. homeboken says:

    Pumpkin – Now that you answered my questions – Here is my follow up.

    You and your colleagues chose Option 2, mandatory furlough. Now – You are approached by all 11 of the others in your team. They all tell you “I can’t afford to lose 2 months pay, but Pumpkin, you have 2 rental properties. You can afford to take a little extra time off for me so I can earn right?”

    What is the tipping point for you? Will you take take 3 months off so a a widower with 2 kids on your team only takes 1 month off. AFterall, you have other income streams where he has only his paycheck. Will you take a year off and save the incomes of 6 people? How do you choose? Based on your comments, you certainly would offer to carry extra burden for those that are less fortunate. How much extra weight are you willing to haul?

  183. joyce says:

    To answer your question, we all know his reading comprehension is crap… so is his memory.

    Libturd in the City says:
    July 30, 2015 at 3:10 pm

  184. The Great Pumpkin says:

    Honestly, I would help as long as it doesn’t put me in debt. If you were close with these workers, how could you sit there and watch their kids suffer. It’s too upclose and personal to not help, but I understand the point you are making.

    I think the type of people we all are basically talking about are the individuals that game the system, whether rich or poor. The people always looking to get over on someone. The ones that will take and take. This whole discussion today is based on this issue. Whether private or govt, these are the people we ALL HATE. THESE ARE THE PEOPLE THAT ARE BOILING OUR BLOOD. I focus on the rich crooks and a lot of you focus on the crooks in the middle and lower classes. I don’t know why I think I can make a difference. The world I seek will never happen with those type of people living in it. They will always cause the economic system to break by finding ways to cheat it. Some people suck and ruin it for everyone else.

    homeboken says:
    July 30, 2015 at 4:14 pm
    Pumpkin – Now that you answered my questions – Here is my follow up.

    You and your colleagues chose Option 2, mandatory furlough. Now – You are approached by all 11 of the others in your team. They all tell you “I can’t afford to lose 2 months pay, but Pumpkin, you have 2 rental properties. You can afford to take a little extra time off for me so I can earn right?”

    What is the tipping point for you? Will you take take 3 months off so a a widower with 2 kids on your team only takes 1 month off. AFterall, you have other income streams where he has only his paycheck. Will you take a year off and save the incomes of 6 people? How do you choose? Based on your comments, you certainly would offer to carry extra burden for those that are less fortunate. How much extra weight are you willing to haul?

  185. The Great Pumpkin says:

    I still think jersey will not fall. All these doom and gloom predictions for jersey. If there is one thing I learned, doom and gloom predictions never materialize.

  186. The Great Pumpkin says:

    You the saying….too big to fail. Apply this to jersey. This economy goes down, then so does America’s. We contribute a lot to the national economy. We go down, then everyone else feels it, esp the state’s that rely on our federal tax dollars.

  187. Ben says:

    Lib, makes over 200k and he would rather trade his job with a teacher, because they have a pension. I’m sure Ben would love to trade you his teaching job. Lib, you make over 200k, have a wife that works, and are as frugal as can be, yet it’s not enough. When will it be enough?

    Lol. I’m not looking to trade my job. I declined going to med school and will be one of the highest paid teachers in the state in a few years.

  188. xolepa says:

    Come on, Pumpkin, enough is enough. Have some decency and let others discuss more pertinent subjects. No one likes a big mouth.

    And Ralphy boy, you got a BIG MOUTH.

  189. Marilyn says:

    You hit the nail on the head Pumpkin. I don’t think NJ taxpayers have a problem helping the one who is in real need. But we don’t want a lifetime of need if able to work once kids grow up, we don’t want fraud, we don’t want fake disability and we are tired of tax cheats like lets say Sally Wongs nails who hides most of the money because its cash. I know several personal trainers who take cash and claim they only make 30K and in all reality they make a lot more! I know people who hide cash and some of us cant do that or have principles. The bar has become very low for principles in NJ.

  190. jcer says:

    187, it will further stratify, with wealthy able to stay and survive even with the pension explosion and middle class towns like Waldwick,Nutley, and Rutherford will look like Pakistan after a drone strike. The blue team doesn’t get it or maybe they do but Marilyn is right about the crushing taxes being an issue for the state going forward.

  191. anon (the good one) says:

    @lhfang: Police brutality is what happens when America collects revenue via traffic tickets & fines instead of taxing the rich

  192. jcer says:

    189 mazel tov Ben. I don’t besmirch the pay, I have no issue with 6+ figure teachers if they are good at what they do my issue is the every bag of human goo gets a pony and a wholly unsustainable pension system that is dependent on the State making good investment decisions….cough Lehman Brothers cough…..

    What plumpy doesn’t get is that for the rest of us we are basically the Roman Gladiators for the executives in the private sector, always pitted against one another and living in fear of the predators, we need to make money for our employers or we peril, in the government you can shoot at a car with 3 kids in it, waste resources on a manhunt and probably still keep your job and get a fat pension.

    The state needs to dismantle it’s pension system and fire workers, eliminate entire departments of government. They produce nothing so it is inefficient.

  193. anon (the good one) says:

    without Michael this site doesn’t get to more than 30 posts a day

    and then we will have to hear about your very right wing kid attending a very liberal school

    xolepa says:
    July 30, 2015 at 4:40 pm
    Come on, Pumpkin, enough is enough. Have some decency and let others discuss more pertinent subjects. No one likes a big mouth.

    And Ralphy boy, you got a BIG MOUTH.

  194. grim says:

    70 – NJGator – Yes, this is intentional. Future pension liabilities serve as a barrier to hiring marginal positions, even low paid ones. Isn’t this how the system should work?

  195. A Home Buyer says:

    186 – Pumpkin Pie

    So is that an admission that text book theories of how things “should” work fail in the real world? Or are you now calling for a purge of the people “who spoil the world”.


    “I don’t know why I think I can make a difference. The world I seek will never happen with those type of people living in it. They will always cause the economic system to break by finding ways to cheat it. Some people suck and ruin it for everyone else.”

  196. A Home Buyer says:

    Pumpkin,

    By the way. Still waiting for your analysis on Public Pensions and Health Benefits in retirement. Ill settle for just the Health Benefits after 25 years service.

    Hopefully Ill learn something when you explain it to how it works economically. Fiances was never my strong point.

  197. Jon Talus says:

    Can anyone tell me how Case-Shiller calculates home values? Do they merely average the sold prices of homes in a given month?

  198. joyce says:

    I love when those like Ottoman and PumpkinFace say food stamps etc are programs that benefit the rich / corporations because I agree with it. However, they refuse to discuss ending these programs.

  199. joyce says:

    Trolls tend to do that.

    anon (the good one) says:
    July 30, 2015 at 4:51 pm
    without Michael this site doesn’t get to more than 30 posts a day

  200. Grim says:

    199 – no it’s a paired sale model – they go back through history and look at the sale prices of the same property over time.

    It’s ideal because it’s not impacted by mix shift like simple descriptive statistical models.

  201. joyce says:

    Pumpkin,
    Countless posts over the years by people here have blamed the incredible and increasing income inequality on the true culprits. Yet, you have defended the actions taken as necessary each and every time it’s been brought up.

    You can’t have it both ways.

  202. Anon E. Moose says:

    Gourd [186];

    I don’t know why I think I can make a difference. The world I seek will never happen with those type of people living in it. They will always cause the economic system to break by finding ways to cheat it. Some people suck and ruin it for everyone else.

    And you’ve just put your finger on why the collective body count of utopian collectivist ideologues who rise to power numbers in the millions. People they find inconvenient must be… eliminated. Yet you’re a cheerleader that we should follow the same path.

  203. Anon E. Moose says:

    Not sure why this didn’t make it through, but trying again:

    Getting back to the whole public pension discussion: “Something that can’t go on forever, won’t. Debts that can’t be repaid, won’t be. Promises that can’t be kept, won’t be. Plan accordingly.” –Instapundit

  204. The Sad Pumpkin says:

    197, 203, 204- All three of you are right, and you know why. I feel like I took drugs. Yesterday’s news about the pension had me on cloud nine. I was so happy for jersey. Today I had my heart ripped out of me. Not fun at all. Total emotional roller coaster ride.

  205. Ragnar says:

    To paraphrase Homer Simpson:
    More debt, the cause of – and solution to- all of NJ’s problems.

  206. Alex Bevan says:

    207

    And all of bank profits.

  207. Banco Popular Trust Preferred Shares says:

    I forget….is Pompous Pr!ck a biblical character?

    Libturd in the City says:
    July 30, 2015 at 9:27 am
    “It’s cute that you think you’re intelligent.”

    I’d rather be a fool than a pompous pr1ck.

  208. Banco Popular Trust Preferred Shares says:

    Can we do a 10 year GTG there?

    Grim says:
    July 30, 2015 at 3:47 pm
    You should have stopped into the distillery

  209. Libturd at home says:

    I have a feeling the same 8 guys will show up, who always show up.

  210. Fabius Maximus says:

    #67 Rags

    While you may get an investor like Icahn going after blood in the water, most company shares are in Institutional hands, and they get voted to maintain the status quo.

  211. caljn says:

    Gosh you right wingers are an angry bunch…at everyone who is not you.
    How dare someone get a leg up, any leg up, that you didn’t get! It ain’t fair!

  212. Rotten Pumpkin says:

    I disagree caljn, It is the left wingers who are angry. People who are politically right of center tend to make less money overall than people who are left wingers however they consistently give more to charity.

    Why do left wingers want to use government to take other people’s money through taxation? Right wingers voluntarily give more of their own money….angry selfish left wingers won’t donate their own money but still take it from others through taxation? Very sad.

  213. caljn says:

    #214
    You evidently inhabit that parallel universe where they make up their own reality.
    Angry selfish left wingers won’t donate their money? You’ve discredited yourself.

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