Movement of jah people!

From NJ Spotlight:

IS THE FEDERAL SALT CAP PUTTING NJ RESIDENTS ON THE ROAD TO OTHER STATES?

Cindy Myers, the president of a moving company based in Mahwah, said she’s seen a big uptick in out-of-state moves in the past three years.

Her customers air a common complaint. “It’s taxes,” she said, “it’s ‘I can’t afford to live here.’” 

Myers shared her story yesterday at a news conference organized by U.S. Rep. Josh Gottheimer (D-5th), who wants to bring attention to the real-world impact of SALT, a new cap on federal income-tax deductions for state and local taxes. 

The $10,000 SALT cap was enacted by President Donald Trump in 2017 as part of a broader overhaul of the tax code. But many taxpayers are just feeling its pinch for the first time this month, as they file federal returns under the new rules, only to learn that the new limit means they owe the feds more money.

“Our phones in our office, my phone is ringing off the hook with people saying, ‘Wait a second, what is going (on) here?” said Gottheimer, who’s introduced legislation seeking to rescind the cap.

The deduction was worth as much as $24,783 on average for those who took it in Bergen County, where Myers’ moving company is located. But even though she says out-of-state moves have tripled in recent years, it’s too soon to determine how the SALT cap is affecting the broader New Jersey landscape. 

Ilene Horowitz, president of New Jersey Realtors, also spoke at the news conference yesterday, saying that 2018 was a strong year for the state’s real-estate market, although she did raise concerns about the potential impact of the cap. 

“Professionally speaking, for 2019, I think it’s too soon to see the effects of SALT,” Horowitz said.

This entry was posted in Demographics, Economics, New Jersey Real Estate, Unrest. Bookmark the permalink.

75 Responses to Movement of jah people!

  1. grim says:

    From the NYT:

    Is the Hudson Valley Turning Into the Hamptons?

    For Amelia Sandell, the Hudson Valley was appealing because it was nothing like the Hamptons. Although now, she admits, that argument is getting harder to make.

    “It feels like the amount of people from Brooklyn who are buying second homes here is growing exponentially by the day,” said Ms. Sandell, 43, who lives in a brownstone in Carroll Gardens, Brooklyn, with her husband, Rob Schlederer, 47. She is a founder of Red Lantern Strategy, a market research company based in Dumbo, and her husband is a broker at Compass.

    The couple recently bought a small cottage with a wraparound porch, on property with a creek, in Stone Ridge, N.Y.

    “We were up at our house recently at the grocery store, and we ran into people we know from the dog park in Brooklyn,” Ms. Sandell said. “Often it feels like we are even more social up there with our friends than we are at home.”

    For generations, New Yorkers have flocked to the Hudson Valley to escape the pace of city life, often choosing it over the Hamptons for its affordability, as well as its relative lack of traffic, pretense and SoulCycle studios. But as more city residents buy homes upstate, that distinction is becoming less obvious.

    Even in places like the Catskills, once known as the borscht belt. Recently, some have given it a new name: The Camptons. And the once-sleepy hamlet of Kerhonkson, N.Y., where a number of ultramodern million-dollar homes have been built in recent years, has been dubbed Kerhampton.

    More alarming, for some, is the arrival this spring of a Hudson Valley version of the Hampton Jitney, the upscale bus that is a quintessential symbol of the eastern Long Island getaway. Line, a business-class bus service run by Trailways of New York, will ferry weekenders upstate for upward of $50 one way, offering them high-speed Wi-Fi, cappuccinos and locally sourced snacks.

    In the fourth quarter of 2018, the median home value in Ulster County was $221,500, compared with $192,000 in the fourth quarter of 2013, an increase of more than 15 percent, according to data from the appraisal firm Miller Samuel. And last year, sales of homes valued at $900,000 or more nearly doubled, to 39, from just 21 the year before, according to data from the Hudson Valley Catskill Region multiple listing service.

  2. The Original NJ ExPat says:

    Two Trump haters engage. One has Trump Derangement Syndrome, one doesn’t.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RtH5wf5_LcY

  3. The Original NJ ExPat says:

    This is what will happen in the United States if you allow all
    these schmucks to promise all the goodies and paradise on earth to destabilize
    your economy, to eliminate the principle of free market competition, and to put
    a big brother government in Washington, D.C. with benevolent dictators like
    Walter Mondale Bernie Sanders who will promise lots of things, never mind if they are fulfilled or not.

    Filmed in 1984:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bX3EZCVj2XA

  4. ExEssex says:

    Delusional :

    President Donald Trump once again gushes about his daughter Ivanka in a new profile where he says his unpaid advisor ‘created millions of jobs’ and confirms he considered her for two prominent posts with global reach.

  5. Comrade Nom Deplume, Tax Warrior says:

    Ironically, the Left has argued for years that the distortive effect of taxation is a fake conservative boogeyman. It isn’t but the irony here is that the argument now embraced by the Left, that the Trump tax change is driving people to other states, is in fact that same boogeyman, only now advanced by the Left.

    Tax distortive migration is real but as the Left correctly maintains, it is sometimes the tail, not the dog. It is not always a deciding or driving factor in migration or a decision NOT to migrate.

    Further, the Trump tax effect is marginal–the taxes giving rise to it were always there. It is now simply that those taxes bite more because the Feds aren’t paying off a portion for the wealthier taxpayers.

    Further, what is ignored (conveniently) by the Left is that this effect hits only a small portion of taxpayers and those are (in the words of the Left), the ones who can best afford it. In fact, hasn’t the Left always accused this cohort of “not paying its fair share”? Now suddenly they are paying too much?

    Fnally, the elimination of the deductions doesn’t hit the vast majority of taxpayers and doesn’t hit the vast majority of those who are out-migrating because of taxes–they did not lose the deduction. No, those people are out-migrating for the same reason they always did: Onerous state and local taxation.

    Come on Otto, Ex, whomever, prove me wrong (Otto, you can simply fling feces since that is your highest form of expression).

  6. The Great Pumpkin says:

    Bingo. If taxes played a major role in the decision process of where someone lives, the most populated areas would be low tax states. Data doesn’t follow the nonsense call that taxes force migration. If this was the case, low tax states would be highly populated, and high tax states would have low populations. Low and behold, the most densely populated states are high tax locations.

    So enough with the bs that taxes make people migrate or plays a role in the decision of what state they will live in. Family and opportunity are the real drivers of migration, not taxes. There is not a location in America that is overtaxed. FACT. People are creating billions under this current tax system….billions. Tepper became a billionaire in nj, so enough with the bs. No one is going to move to another state to save a small percentage on taxes if it costs them significantly in profit and/or are forced to leave their family/friends.

    At the end of the day, the people complaining about the taxes are just complainers. They complain about everything and are never happy. They can be paying a 5% tax rate and will still complain that they are being robbed. So careful listening to the people they interview for these articles, they are just complainers that are never happy.

    I’ll also add that when a business like Mercedes leaves nj, it’s not because of taxes, and more to do with the cost of labor. They are moving to a cheaper location to pay much less in labor….period. They also will move because of logistics for said business, but don’t think for a second that taxes are the main factor in the decision process of where a business will be located. It’s the labor cost…..

    “Tax distortive migration is real but as the Left correctly maintains, it is sometimes the tail, not the dog. It is not always a deciding or driving factor in migration or a decision NOT to migrate.”

  7. 3b says:

    Pumps there comes a point where taxes do drive migration both business and people. We are at that point now in this area. You can’t simply keep raising taxes and even worse see no improvements or benefits just more money down a black hole. For all the taxes we pay we should have the best of everything. We don’t not even close!!

  8. The Great Pumpkin says:

    “WHY DON’T YOU CLASS WIKILEAKS’ ACTIONS AS JOURNALISM?
    JM: I would put it more in the category of an intelligence activity. As then-CIA Director Mike Pompeo said back in 2017: “WikiLeaks walks like a hostile intelligence service and talks like a hostile intelligence service.” Assange does not scour the world looking for bad activities of all governments. He has occasionally mentioned some country other than the U.S., but the U.S. is overwhelmingly his main target, not Russia, China, Iran, Syria or North Korea — all of which have deplorable practices that he would spotlight if he were a serious journalist. And in his focus on the United States, we now know that he does this with the assistance and encouragement of the Russian intelligence service. I don’t call that journalism.

    Real journalists, when they come upon material along the lines of what he has published, will call an intelligence agency and say, “We have acquired this material and we are going to publish it unless you can convince us that this will damage national security.” And you always have a chance to make your case. Sometimes you make your case successfully and they hold off; sometimes you don’t win your case and they publish it. I have examples in my career of both of those happening. He didn’t give anyone that chance. He just puts it out there, and even Edward Snowden said his last release of CIA hacking tools would be damaging.

    DO YOU THINK THE U.S. GOVERNMENT COULD AND SHOULD CHARGE HIM FOR PUBLISHING THESE SECRETS?
    JM: I think it’s a close call. Emotionally, I would say yes. He shouldn’t do this. Frankly, that’s such a legal question that if I were still in office, I would not answer that question in congressional testimony without clear legal guidance.

    I think what Assange is doing now and what he will do is he will seek martyr status. You can already see it in the reaction as he came out of the embassy saying, in effect, “I told you so” to his supporters who have been gathered outside. “See what they’re doing to me?’’ He will seek martyr status, and it will play to that crowd. Some people will buy it.

    I’m sure they are printing up Julian Assange T-shirts now. Someone is going to try to make him a hero. There will be bumper stickers, T-shirts and cups. People need to understand one thing: This guy is not a hero. He is an anti-U.S. hacker. If it’s fair to break into Pentagon computers, then it’s fair to break into your computer and mine.”

    https://www.ozy.com/opinion/former-cia-chief-we-must-keep-julian-assange-from-becoming-a-martyr/93796

  9. ExEssex says:

    WASHINGTON, D.C., MARCH 18, 2019 – With tariffs continuing to take a toll on U.S. businesses, farmers, communities, and families across the country, a new report by IHS Markit released today outlines the impact of tariffs on the equipment manufacturing industry and the broader U.S. economy.

    “This report shows that tariffs continue to take a toll on U.S. equipment manufacturers, who will pay significantly more to manufacture equipment in the United States in the coming years,” said Dennis Slater, president of the Association of Equipment Manufacturers (AEM). “Tariffs on steel, aluminum, and Chinese imports, as well as the potential for additional tariffs, are driving up the cost of production, delaying capital investments, and impeding job creation for our more than 1,000 member companies.”

    “While we agree with the Trump administration’s concerns regarding China’s unfair trade practices, including weak intellectual property protections, restrictions on foreign investment, and policies that limit competition, tariffs only hurt America’s businesses, workers, and families,” said John Garrison, chairman of the board, president and CEO of Terex Corporation and an AEM board member. “We urge the Trump administration to negotiate solutions to these long-standing issues with China, de-escalate economic tensions, and remove broad unilateral tariffs.”

    The report, “The Economic and Industry Impact of Protectionism Tariffs on the Off-highway Equipment Sector,” estimates the impact of the Trump administration’s Section 232 and Section 301 tariffs. Several of the report’s key findings speak to the significant, long-term impact on the U.S. economy, including:

    Placing tariffs on about $265 billion of imports will hurt the U.S. economy, largely from the direct effect of higher prices, yielding average lost GDP of $29 billion a year for 10 years.
    The effect on employment is negative; the tariffs will suppress domestic job gains by 260,000 over 10 years.
    Consumers will pay higher prices and reduce their real spending by $23 billion per year throughout the forecast horizon (ending in 2027).
    The report also highlights specific impacts on the equipment manufacturing industry:

    Tariffs will increase costs of producing U.S. agriculture and construction equipment by 6 percent; with its higher steel-related product content, the costs of producing U.S. mining equipment will increase 7 percent;
    Total loss in employment related to diminished output of all off-highway equipment is projected to end the forecast period with a loss of 20,700 jobs.

  10. The Great Pumpkin says:

    We pay high property taxes, but we don’t get nickled and dimed on other things. Nj just relies on property taxes too much. That is the problem. They need to do what these other states do and start charging for cars and everything else instead of raising property taxes.

    Also, any dense high producing area is charged an income tax. Florida and Texas are the only states that don’t, but they have had an endless supply of land. That’s coming to an end, and they are becoming denser…..only a matter of time before they need an income tax to help pay for the costs of new infrastructure and schools. Price to pay for large expanding population…..ask anyplace that has experienced it. It always happens, no place has been immune from this.

    At the end of the day, I promise that nj doesn’t pay significantly more than most of these other places. It’s really not that much of a difference unless you are counting every penny.

    3b says:
    April 12, 2019 at 9:57 am
    Pumps there comes a point where taxes do drive migration both business and people. We are at that point now in this area. You can’t simply keep raising taxes and even worse see no improvements or benefits just more money down a black hole. For all the taxes we pay we should have the best of everything. We don’t not even close!!

  11. The Great Pumpkin says:

    Yes, for a retiree, 5,000-10,000 extra in property taxes hurts. That’s why retirees leave that can’t afford it. For someone working in a decent job or owning a business, that is chump change.

    So yes, they could save 5,000-10,000 in property taxes, but how much will that cost them in compensation or future compensation?

    If you can find a good job in one of these locations, more power to you, but that is not the norm.

  12. The Original NJ ExPat says:

    The morons made this Marxist propaganda don’t even know the difference between pie and cake.

    ExEssex says:
    April 12, 2019 at 9:36 am

    Okay: https://youtu.be/rvskMHn0sqQ

  13. ExEssex says:

    Ur old lady let’s you eat her pie while you admire the cake on that fresh young beatch from accounting…

  14. The Original NJ ExPat says:

    I can never tell from exSex’s posts if he’s at the beginning or end of his drinking day.

  15. ExEssex says:

    More of a smoker than a drinker I confess.

  16. The Original NJ ExPat says:

    Not buying it. I can tell the difference between a nasty, mean drunk and a wake and baker pretty easily, as I’m sure your wife and daughter can too.

    More of a smoker than a drinker I confess.

  17. The Original NJ ExPat says:

    ^^^^Pumps – want to weigh in? You Dad was both, right?

  18. 3b says:

    Pumps 5 to 10k is chump change? That attitude is one of the reasons we are in the mess we are. Stop trying to rationalize why taxes are out of control and your perverse belief that it is justified. And as for not being nickeled and dimed you are wrong there as well. No surprise!

  19. The Great Pumpkin says:

    Look at this list. Look at the difference, it’s almost nothing. Nj is at 9.86% and lowest state is at 5.10%. Most states are pretty close to nj. Anyone moving to Alaska from nj to save 5% on their taxes is pretty damn crazy. If you have a job lined up, more power to you, but if you are blindly moving there in search of a job…..you are nuts.

    https://wallethub.com/edu/states-with-highest-lowest-tax-burden/20494/

  20. Bruiser says:

    Blumps, 10:05
    “I’m sure they are printing up Julian Assange T-shirts now. Someone is going to try to make him a hero. There will be bumper stickers, T-shirts and cups. People need to understand one thing: This guy is not a hero. He is an anti-U.S. hacker. If it’s fair to break into Pentagon computers, then it’s fair to break into your computer and mine.””

    And you’re buying McLaughlin’s garbage?
    Earth to Pumps and McLaughlin: The US Intelligence agencies have already decided it is fair to break into every computer, phone, router, disk array, IoT device, etc that touches the Internet. They’re just pi$$ed Assange caught them early, and is almost as good at it as they are.

  21. The Original NJ ExPat says:

    With less than a GED, you would be crazy to leave Passaic County.

    If you have a job lined up, more power to you, but if you are blindly moving there in search of a job…..you are nuts.

  22. The Original NJ ExPat says:

    ever

  23. The Original NJ ExPat says:

    Can’t have any lunar landers wandering around, not finding American flags there.

    https://apnews.com/7b7a46420b114036bff98b1e87b83306

  24. Blue Ribbon Teacher says:

    Julian Assange brought more transparency to government than anyone in recorded history.

  25. Joe says:

    This is an interesting take on why this is happening just now to Julian Assange after the Mueller report turned out to be a dud.

    https://www.armstrongeconomics.com/international-news/rule-of-law/julian-assange-has-been-arrest-by-british-police/

  26. Comrade Nom Deplume, secretly rooting for the robots says:

    ExEssex says:
    April 12, 2019 at 9:36 am

    Were you even listening?

  27. JCer says:

    Pumps taxes in NJ are out of control, the property tax issue stems from how NJ funds education and a lack of shared services. Truth be told the issue of small towns is that they are solely residential in nature and thus the burden of school tax falls squarely on home owners. Yes there is waste and inefficiency in government at the local levels but it pales in comparison to federal and state(in most places NWK is a different animal. The state spends a lot on public school aid unfortunately most of it goes it goes to the Abbott districts which are basically a black hole, who also have very diverse rateables so theoretically should be much more able to raise enough property tax to cover school costs. If we shifted to a model like other states where the majority of school funding came from sources other than property taxes we could fix property taxes in NJ. The other big issue we have is again black holes like Newark and Paterson who suck in county funding, I send essex county 20% of my property tax dollars and I think my town has 2 county roads running through it, that’s the extent of my benefit from funding the county.

    The article you are referencing doesn’t account for the progressive nature of taxation(if it did CA is worse than NY), it is much more punitive the more money you have, in NJ if you make 150k your tax bill isn’t so bad if it’s a million or more you have a problem. Guess who runs/owns/manages the companies who have a foot out the door? Yes at some point the uber rich(billionaires) no longer care about the tax money, they have that luxury. Your garden variety high net worth/income people do care and the tax situation totally effects them.

    The other elephant in the room is the taxes are sky high in NJ and still the financial situation for the government is bad, high debt at all levels, tons of unfunded liabilities, and a deficit.

    NJ is the poster child for bad governance…….

  28. The Great Pumpkin says:

    Too bad he only targets the US government….that’s the problem. Why doesn’t he spill russian or chinese dirt? Why doesn’t he release their weapons of espionage like he did to the US. F’k him, he is a traitor to the United States….plain and simple.

    Blue Ribbon Teacher says:
    April 12, 2019 at 12:12 pm
    Julian Assange brought more transparency to government than anyone in recorded history.

  29. The Original NJ ExPat says:

    Now that the game has changed, I’d like to see him bring more transparency to government leaks. He’s already said that none of the leaks came from Russia. Imagine if he says that the DNC emails came from Seth Rich?

    Unlike others who report “news”, nothing from Wikileaks has ever been challenged successfully for accuracy. Assange seems like he leans left, but he seems to force himself to be objective when it comes to releasing stuff…a trait long ago extinct in the corporate news sphere.

    Julian Assange brought more transparency to government than anyone in recorded history.

  30. The Great Pumpkin says:

    If you think governments can be transparent….I have a bridge to nowhere for you. You expect the game to be played in the open, so your competition knows every single thing about your government and its players?

  31. The Great Pumpkin says:

    Jcer,

    I agree with most of your post, I just don’t agree with this part. If you are making a million a year or more, are you really crying about having to pay a 50% tax rate? If a person is making a million or more a year, they are the ones using the infrastructure and education system the most, so why don’t they pay for what they use? No way you can make that type of money without using the infrastructure and education more than most individuals. So why should these others pay on an equal percentage, when they are not getting the benefits of said investment on equal footing?

    That’s the bottom line with progressive taxation….the people making the most money off taxpayer investments (esp military) should put the most back in. It’s wrong to put a flat tax in place when certain individuals benefit from govt investment more than others.

    “The article you are referencing doesn’t account for the progressive nature of taxation(if it did CA is worse than NY), it is much more punitive the more money you have, in NJ if you make 150k your tax bill isn’t so bad if it’s a million or more you have a problem. Guess who runs/owns/manages the companies who have a foot out the door? Yes at some point the uber rich(billionaires) no longer care about the tax money, they have that luxury. Your garden variety high net worth/income people do care and the tax situation totally effects them.”

  32. Joe says:

    What a stupid post. He releases what is LEAKED to him. Other countries are not leaking as much info from internal sources.

    “The Great Pumpkin says:
    April 12, 2019 at 12:37 pm
    Too bad he only targets the US government….that’s the problem. Why doesn’t he spill russian or chinese dirt? Why doesn’t he release their weapons of espionage like he did to the US. F’k him, he is a traitor to the United States….plain and simple.”

  33. The Great Pumpkin says:

    Oh please…if that’s what you want to think.

    Joe says:
    April 12, 2019 at 12:50 pm
    What a stupid post. He releases what is LEAKED to him. Other countries are not leaking as much info from internal sources

  34. Joe says:

    You are like a stupid fool that gets angry at the messenger and orders him executed even though it is is not his fault.

    Go wallow in your trough of ignorance.

  35. The Original NJ ExPat says:

    That’s because those regimes will just kill 10 guys that access to a document to make sure they got the one that leaked.

    Other countries are not leaking as much info from internal sources

  36. The Great Pumpkin says:

    I don’t know…the guy seems pretty biased in his release of information. Maybe you are correct, but I have a hard time believing it.

  37. The Great Pumpkin says:

    Evidence that trump is all over the place.

    “President Donald Trump on Thursday is now pretending not to know anything about WikiLeaks, whose founder, Julian Assange, was arrested earlier in the day in the UK — despite the fact that the president has publicly professed his “love” for the organization in the past.

    “I know nothing about WikiLeaks,” Trump told reporters in the Oval Office Thursday. “It’s not my thing,” he added.

    But it is his thing. Very much so.

    In 2010, Trump casually mentioned to Fox News anchor Brian Kilmeade that Assange should get the death penalty for leaking sensitive US government documents he received from then-US Army Pvt. Chelsea Manning.

    And six years later, during the height of the 2016 presidential campaign, Trump praised WikiLeaks’s consistent releases of emails related to his opponent, Hillary Clinton. “WikiLeaks, I love WikiLeaks!” Trump professed during a speech on October 10.

    President Donald Trump on Thursday is now pretending not to know anything about WikiLeaks, whose founder, Julian Assange, was arrested earlier in the day in the UK — despite the fact that the president has publicly professed his “love” for the organization in the past.

    “I know nothing about WikiLeaks,” Trump told reporters in the Oval Office Thursday. “It’s not my thing,” he added.

    But it is his thing. Very much so.

    In 2010, Trump casually mentioned to Fox News anchor Brian Kilmeade that Assange should get the death penalty for leaking sensitive US government documents he received from then-US Army Pvt. Chelsea Manning.

    And six years later, during the height of the 2016 presidential campaign, Trump praised WikiLeaks’s consistent releases of emails related to his opponent, Hillary Clinton. “WikiLeaks, I love WikiLeaks!” Trump professed during a speech on October 10.”

    https://www.vox.com/world/2019/4/11/18306442/assange-wikileaks-arrest-trump-love

  38. JCer says:

    Leaks from Russia and China are fewer and harder, the people are poor except for those tied into the government and the police state apparatus is big and is known to exist by the people. Any attempt to leak government secrets would be met with a summary execution, additionally it’s hard to leak something everyone knows as fact, the government in those countries monitors all communications and is spying on everyone inside their country. It’s not like the US where plausible deniability etc, people are either ignorant to the fact that they are under constant surveillance or pretend that it’s not case.

    Pumps on progressive taxation, it’s a scam it doesn’t work, the more you try to tax the rich the more they avoid it. The over a million dollar income set can and will leave a place like NJ taking their tax dollars with them, countries with high progressive taxes tend to have issues. Looking at the tax shelter countries they have few problems(and no poor people), the rich don’t need your government services, they can hire their own and just through a small sales tax they can cover a fair amount of government. You want to be like Monaco,Andorra, Switzerland not France, Italy, or Spain. Just say what you really feel, you are envious of people who make a million a year so that is the cutoff you should take more of their wealth…………

  39. The Great Pumpkin says:

    Jcer,

    Always love your posts.

    I’m not envious and I wish we didn’t have to have taxes, but we have to pay for this somehow.

    Can we agree that there is a complete correlation between money earned and services used? There is no way you can become a big shot without the benefit of using public infrastructure at a higher rate than the avg individual. It’s just wrong that these individuals try to use this public investment for free by trying to avoid their tax bill at all cost. These people are greedy and immoral. They are the first to cry about corrupt politicians stealing their money through taxes, but have no problem doing the same exact thing as the politician with their tax bill. When they hide their money from the tax man, someone else has to make it up. WE ARE ALL CORRUPT…

  40. ExEssex says:

    11:26 you are sadly overestimating your intuition. I like bourbon but probably should drink MORE which would mean i’d Have to make a habit out of it which I don’t. I’ m very hangover averse.

  41. xolepa says:

    Just reading through today’s blog…Kerhonkson, WTF? I know that town like the guy I see in the morning mirror. That town was OK in the 70’s (I’ve been there since the 60s) but started to die in the eighties. Used to eat at the Log Cabin restaurant on 55 east of 209. Great perogies and borscht, no kidding. When you’re a teenager you get real hungry. Also saw the Islanders witn the Stanley Cup on TV there over Memorial Day weekend back in the late 70s.

    Either way, the town once had a passenger railroad station and still has the correctional facility. Once, with my gang of friends, we pulled up about a 1/2 mile away from the slammer and peered at it with my binoculars. We saw the guards peering right back at us with their own binoculars. Needless to say, we hightailed it.

    Kerhonkson still is the location for my drinking/best time of life/hangout/meeting girl place: Soyuzivka, aka SuzyQ

  42. xolepa says:

    In fact, I proposed to my wife there 36 years ago!

  43. JCer says:

    Pumps lets avoid talking fair, some rich have gamed the system and pay too little taxes but many others making high incomes are paying very punitive taxes. I would think we already know that capital gains taxes are poor policy, taxing income makes sense because of the speculative nature of active income based investment as well as business opportunity is not as mobile as capital. Once income taxes approach 50% it would seem people start pulling back, why work so hard if you only can keep half, forget about 70%.

    Also when you talk about services the rich actually use little, many send their kids to private school, they tend to spend a lot in the local economy, in general at a state level they are taking few if any resources, if anything they require fewer public services. On a national scale, defense is the big one, things like road infrastructure should be paid for with use taxes(gas tax, etc) anyway.

  44. PumpkinFace says:

    No, no we cannot. I can’t wait to hear this “logic”.

    The Great Pumpkin says:
    April 12, 2019 at 2:41 pm

    Can we agree that there is a complete correlation between money earned and services used? There is no way you can become a big shot without the benefit of using public infrastructure at a higher rate than the avg individual.

  45. The Great Pumpkin says:

    I disagree with this part. Anyone making large amounts of money is using the services the most. They might send their kid to private school, but their professional position or the business they run relies on the said investment in public education to provide workers for them.

    That’s a huge cost. Imagine if they had to train all their workers on the basics that a public education provides. Look how long training is, it takes years for people to learn the basics.

    If we eliminated public schools, half the people aren’t going to go to school. They are not paying for school. So what would happen to the pool of workers if we eliminated the public school system? If they thought the quality of worker is bad now, they would be screwed under this scenario. Their business couldn’t function.

    How about the roads and the entire infrastructure system. Without that, there is no business. Who uses our roads the most? Businesses. No question about it. Their shipping destroys our roads. Their employees destroy our roads. Their customers destroy our roads. Who uses the airport the most? Business….The people profiting. So why can’t they pay to support it?

    How about Social Security and Medicare. How many businesses are profiting off that? How many businesses would go under if we took those two away? An enormous amount would suffer. So who really benefits? People using these government handouts don’t HOLD money. The minute they receive it, they spend it. So who really benefits from handing out all this money to the poor? In whose hands does the money really end up? Yes, the big dogs who refuse to pay taxes.

    So I don’t know why the rich refuse to see how much this government helps them. I didn’t even go into the military. You think that military is for us? Just like the King’s army was to defend his people, right? That army’s purpose was to defend and gain power for the king. Simple as that. Why would you think today would be any different?

    So the govt is really for the rich. No idea why they hate it so much. The govt is what protects property rights. Don’t like paying for police, good luck protecting your private property without a strong force in place. Do most rich people go to jail? No, it’s the poor. So who is the police force for? To protect the people with the most property, yet the bill is shared equally by everyone. Yet, the rich cry about taxes and government, blind to how much they get for their money.

    “Also when you talk about services the rich actually use little, many send their kids to private school, they tend to spend a lot in the local economy, in general at a state level they are taking few if any resources, if anything they require fewer public services. On a national scale, defense is the big one, things like road infrastructure should be paid for with use taxes(gas tax, etc) anyway.”

  46. No One says:

    “If you are making a million a year or more, are you really crying about having to pay a 50% tax rate?”
    Crying, no, feeling ripped off, yes, thinking of ways to escape NJ, yes.

    “If a person is making a million or more a year, they are the ones using the infrastructure and education system the most, so why don’t they pay for what they use?”
    You know what’s even more highly correlated to use? Pay per use and user fees. I’d be very happy to shift to the pay per use model. I’ve pulled my kid out of the state-run system for the last 4 years, yet I pay over $300k per year in state and local taxes. I’m pretty sure the average family consumes more NJ services than mine does. No school or welfare consumption, and I play 99% of my tennis and golf in private clubs, not public facilities. I drive about 10k miles per year, pretty much like average. When I fly out of an airport, the airport fee is already embedded in my airfare.

    “No way you can make that type of money without using the infrastructure and education more than most individuals.”
    Sure you can. I make money by thinking and informing decisions by typing stuff on a keyboard. Increasingly, I can do that anywhere. And I have some colleagues proving that by doing the same thing remotely from outside of NJ. I’m pretty sure the average Camden family uses more resources than my family does. Which is why I pay hundreds of thousands per year to NJ, and they get checks in the mail and free stuff.

  47. The Original NJ ExPat says:

    To my mind only the very poor pay too little taxes, as in a negative tax rate. It’s just these billionaire mouthpieces for the Democrat party who claim they pay too little on the other end. I would put some “tax free windows” in the tax code. I don’t pretend to know the right breakpoints, but something like zero tax due on the $10K between $50K and $60K; make people earning $50K think they are losing “free money” if they don’t make it to $60K instead of trying to hide $10K of income, trying to make it look like they are earning $40K.

  48. Blue Ribbon Teacher says:

    He doesn’t speak Russian or Chinese. That’s the problem. Both of those regimes tend to execute people internally for leaks

  49. The Great Pumpkin says:

    BS!! They couldn’t do this without the said investment in infrastructure that you take for granted.

    ““No way you can make that type of money without using the infrastructure and education more than most individuals.”
    Sure you can. I make money by thinking and informing decisions by typing stuff on a keyboard. Increasingly, I can do that anywhere. And I have some colleagues proving that by doing the same thing remotely from outside of NJ. I’m pretty sure the average Camden family uses more resources than my family does. Which is why I pay hundreds of thousands per year to NJ, and they get checks in the mail and free stuff.”

    Yes, sure. You had no helping hand from the govt in building your wealth, correct? Now explain to me specifically how you did this? Could this be done in Somalia? Why or why not? Please explain.

    You know what’s even more highly correlated to use? Pay per use and user fees. I’d be very happy to shift to the pay per use model. I’ve pulled my kid out of the state-run system for the last 4 years, yet I pay over $300k per year in state and local taxes. I’m pretty sure the average family consumes more NJ services than mine does. No school or welfare consumption, and I play 99% of my tennis and golf in private clubs, not public facilities. I drive about 10k miles per year, pretty much like average. When I fly out of an airport, the airport fee is already embedded in my airfare.

  50. ExEssex says:

    The biggest factor is “what” is done with taxes collected. Do you trust the powers that be and figure they are making wise investments on behalf of society?

  51. The Great Pumpkin says:

    No One,

    Why is America the best place in the world to do business? Why?

    If it’s all about the individual, why are so many countries left in the dust? Their infrastructure sucks, and their education system doesn’t exist. THIS IS NO PLACE TO DO BUSINESS.

    NOW DO YOU KNOW WHY THE U.S. GOVERNMENT IS RESPONSIBLE FOR CREATING THE BEST PLACE TO CONDUCT BUSINESS IN THE WORLD. WHY HAS THIS PLACE CREATED SO MUCH WHILE SOMALIA HAS NOTHING? AND YOU SIT HERE THINKING GOVERNMENT HAS NOTHING DO WITH IT.

    You really have to open up your mind and understand the benefits of doing business in America. This government has done a hell of a job for entrepreneurs and the free market system.

  52. The Great Pumpkin says:

    I don’t trust anyone, but I don’t know of a better system than what we have in place. I don’t believe a perfect exists due to human nature, and I believe this is the best system that we currently have on the table. It has produced significantly for this society.

    ExEssex says:
    April 12, 2019 at 4:54 pm
    The biggest factor is “what” is done with taxes collected. Do you trust the powers that be and figure they are making wise investments on behalf of society?

  53. No One says:

    The State of NJ spends about 2% of its budget on the judiciary system.
    Most of NJ’s budget appears to be wealth transfers and trying to do things private service providers do better.
    My town spent about 15% of its budget on police and public safety.

    People who want limited government don’t “hate the government” they merely remember that the role of government was designed to be servant not master, employed to protect individual rights and property, rather than to be the instrument of looting and plundering by corrupt politicians and avaricious pressure groups.

  54. The Great Pumpkin says:

    Couldn’t agree more, and I get where you are coming from. That’s why I always try to explain to you that we shouldn’t expect perfection because human nature is at play. No doubt, we should strive for it, but the question is how? Our fore fathers did a great job of providing the building blocks of “checking” power. Unfortunately, it’s not enough. I think we have to get rid of pay to play.

    I know it sounds crazy, but let’s just add a tax to pay for elections from now on. It will save us a lot of money in the long run. It’s the only way to get more honest individuals into positions. The donation process is a major source of corruption and would be in our best interest to eliminate it. With this, we can head towards a road of less corruption and more efficiently spent tax dollars.

    “People who want limited government don’t “hate the government” they merely remember that the role of government was designed to be servant not master, employed to protect individual rights and property, rather than to be the instrument of looting and plundering by corrupt politicians and avaricious pressure groups.“

  55. The Great Pumpkin says:

    For some reason, i thought you hate government. I thought you were someone that was advocating for a govt that was privatized into nothing.

  56. No One says:

    Yes, I’d probably shrink the government by about 75% if I had my way, which I won’t.
    Because I think it’s expanded vastly beyond its core competence and appropriate scope of protecting rights (police and military) and administering justice (courts). The majority of Government budgets at the state and federal level is now mostly about giving to some and taking from others. The reason why politics has descended into madness is because all the groups are fighting for control over the huge “spreading around” of money that this 75% represents. Politicians want to be the people being seen giving away “free” goods and services. But the more they do, the less efficient it becomes, because it has to be bureaucratic, and it has to have a lot of waste. Who enjoys eating in government cafeterias?

  57. The Great Pumpkin says:

    You are absolutely correct. That’s a good description of what has become of it.

  58. ExEssex says:

    Aight it’s 4:20….1

  59. The Original NJ ExPat says:

    Exactly. Protect me from fraud and protect me from force.

    Because I think it’s expanded vastly beyond its core competence and appropriate scope of protecting rights (police and military) and administering justice (courts).

  60. The Original NJ ExPat says:

    “The Democrats are going to continue to unravel because this is the first time they have faced any measure of accountability in decades for their egregious use of power.”

    Sidney Powell, Former Federal Prosecutor
    Author, Licensed to Lie – Exposing Corruption in the Department of Justice

    https://www.amazon.com/Licensed-Lie-Sidney-Powell/dp/1732767602

  61. The Original NJ ExPat says:

    ^^^misquoted, should be egregious abuse of power

  62. ExEssex says:

    Trump ultimate troll on the Dems. You want these folks?

    Here…

    Smh

  63. The Original NJ ExPat says:

    Why would anyone not want illegals in their city/town?

    1. They commit less crimes than American citizens.
    2. They grow the economy.
    3. They add diversity.
    4. They do the jobs that nobody else will do.
    5. We are a nation of (illegal?) immigrants.

    The more illegals you have, the richer your economy becomes. We should all be collecting them like beanie babies if we want to make big money in the future, right?

  64. The Great Pumpkin says:

    “Newly available net worth data from the Federal Reserve suggests that the “left-behind” contagion has spread to all Americans aside from the top 10 percent. While still wealthier overall than most other groups, even the upper-middle class is feeling the pinch of income stagnation. The growth rate of this group’s incomes is lagging behind that of those both lower and higher on the socioeconomic ladder.”

    https://apple.news/ANg1jPMNXQfmM-Hx_VIrBKg

  65. The Great Pumpkin says:

    We def need immigrants….been a key cog in the American economic growth story.

  66. The Original NJ ExPat says:

    Mr. Trump’s claims of no collusion are, in a word, hogwash.

    -John O. Brennan, Former Director of the Central Intelligence Agency (2013–2017)

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BNSnVPRgt3Q

  67. The Original NJ ExPat says:

    ^^^ George Toscas and David Laufman are names you may not have heard of before, but you may hear of them soon.

  68. The Original NJ ExPat says:

    ^^^ Also Mike Kortan.

  69. Zycdafe says:

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  70. leftwing says:

    Encompassing multiple faults often discussed here from overpopulation through municipal mismanagement…. enjoy your ocean dips this summer in spring lake and avon… because, you know bacteria from raw belmar sh1t only travels one block. Which way are the ocean flows there, north or south?

    And btw which are the nine other beaches referenced in the article with worse measures?

    https://www.app.com/story/news/local/land-environment/2019/04/11/belmar-nj-shark-river-water-pollution-sewage/3350392002/

  71. Congratulations on this great job and give us the opportunity to ‘smart’!

  72. Superb blog much more complete and practical. It will take me months to “catch up” with my delay.
    A big thank-you.

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