(Of course this isn’t the first time someone caught them, see: NAR: 4% Quarterly Gain is (Oops) Actually a 30% Loss. In retrospect, maybe that wasn’t a one-time mistake at all, but an example of a systematic manipulation of data.)
From the WSJ:
The housing crash may have been more severe than initial estimates have shown.
The National Association of Realtors, which produces a widely watched monthly estimate of sales of previously owned homes, is examining the possibility that it over-counted U.S. home sales dating back as far as 2007.
The group reported that there were 4.9 million sales of previously owned homes in 2010, down 5.7% from 5.2 million in 2009. But CoreLogic, a real-estate analytics firm based in Santa Ana, Calif., counted just 3.3 million homes sales last year, a drop of 10.8% from 3.7 million in 2009. CoreLogic says NAR could have overstated home sales by as much as 20%.
While revisions wouldn’t affect reported home-price numbers, they could show that the housing market faces a bigger overhang in inventory, given the weaker demand.
In December, NAR said that it would take 8.1 months to sell some 3.6 million homes listed for sale at the current pace, but the number of months it would take could be even higher if sales are revised down. Any revisions wouldn’t have an impact on homeowners, but it could have consequences for the real-estate industry. Downward revisions would show that “this horrific downturn in the housing market has been even more pronounced than what people thought, and people already thought it was pretty bad,” said Thomas Lawler, an independent housing economist.
From Reuters:
U.S. housing data may have understated extend of collapse-report
A U.S. housing trade association is examining the possibility that the data it releases underestimated the collapse of the housing industry, the Wall Street Journal reported on Monday.
The National Association of Realtors, which issues the monthly existing home sales report that is closely watched by economists and financial markets, may have over-counted home sales dating as far back as 2007, the newspaper said in an article posted to its web site.
NAR’s home sales count was at odds with calculations by CoreLogic, a California real estate analysis firm, according to the report. CoreLogic says NAR could have overstated home sales by as much as 20 percent.
An over-count of home sales may mean that there is a bigger backlog of unsold homes and that it will take longer for the U.S. housing sector to climb out of the deep hole it is already in, dragging on the broader economic recovery.
From UPI:
CoreLogic Blasts NAR for Overstating Home Sales
The “most popular measure” of existing home sales, the National Association of Realtors’ Existing Home Sales, has increasingly overstated home sales for ten years as measured by five other sources, and reached a level in 2010 that is 15 to 20 percent higher than actual sales, according to CoreLogic, which made the charges in its US Housing and Market Trends Report.
CoreLogic reported sales totaled only 3.6 million in 2010, down 12 percent from 2009. By comparison, NAR reported sales fell only 5 percent in 2010 after rising in 2009, and were flat relative to 2008. CoreLogic said sales did not actually rise in 2009.
From Bloomberg:
U.S. Home Prices in December Probably Had Biggest 12-Month Drop in a Year
Residential real-estate prices dropped in the 12 months to December by the most in a year, a sign the U.S. housing market is struggling even as the rest of the economy recovers, economists said before a report today.
The S&P/Case-Shiller index of home values in 20 cities fell 2.4 percent, the biggest year-over-year decrease since December 2009, according to the median forecast of 19 economists surveyed by Bloomberg News. Another report may show consumer confidence fell this month from the highest level in almost three years.
Foreclosures are forecast to rise this year as banks resume seizures, further depressing values and prompting would-be buyers to hold off on purchases. Unemployment at 9 percent and declines in housing are among reasons the Federal Reserve has signaled it will proceed with its unconventional monetary stimulus.
“We’re seeing declines in home prices and they are broad- based,” said Julia Coronado, chief North America economist at BNP Paribas in New York. “We’re seeing very weak demand for housing, lots of distressed supply coming on the market. There is every reason to expect downward pressure for a while.”
S&P/Case-Shiller’s report is due at 9 a.m. New York time. Forecasts for the 12-month change ranged from declines of 1.7 percent to 8.5 percent.
Good Morning New Jersey
From the WSJ:
Housing Needs a Good Spring in Its Step
Although the groundhog spotted his shadow, there’s no early spring in sight for the U.S. housing market.
In fact, the primary selling season, which traditionally kicks off on Super Bowl Sunday, is off to a sluggish start. The index of weekly purchase applications from the Mortgage Bankers Association is down 18% from a year ago. And this month’s home-builder sentiment survey, considered a leading gauge of activity, remained at recessionary levels.
Data this week aren’t likely to inspire much more confidence. New-home sales are expected to be down 14% in January from a year earlier. Purchases of existing homes are seen up 4%, in part because of continued foreclosure sales. Tuesday, the Standard & Poor’s/Case-Shiller index is expected to show home prices posted a 2% year-to-year drop in December, more than November’s 1.6% decline.
The weakness partly may reflect unusually bad winter weather. Additionally, prices and activity a year ago temporarily were juiced by the first-time home-buyer tax credit. Still, despite improvement in other parts of the economy, housing is barely managing to thaw.
It doesn’t help that the somewhat brighter outlook for economic growth is lifting interest rates. Average 30-year, fixed-rate mortgages jumped above 5% this month after hitting a low of 4.17% in November, according to Freddie Mac. Already, that has choked off the refinancing wave. Now, it risks denting affordability, which, along with still-tight lending standards, continues to push entry-level buyers into rentals, notes Guggenheim Securities home-builder analyst Jay McCanless.
“I’m shocked, shocked I tell you.”
Actually I’m not shocked at all. If you take take the info on a product as to sales & availability from the people who make their living selling it to you , well…..
Maybe big pharma can make a drug to repair the housing market. Both industries need a shot in the arm now.
well…..
It’s always a great time to buy!
Any desperate foreclosing baby boomers with not enough in there 01K to retire who would love to sell their soul?
The entire real estate/banking system appears to be corrupt. If you start hanging some of these crooks from lamp posts it might stop some of this behaviour.
NJ Toast Number 5 They have a better chance of finding a drug that grows hair on a bald head
Mike 9, I thought they had that one!
From the APP:
Christie to propose next state budget today
New Jersey Gov. Chris Christie will lay out his fiscal vision for the coming year when he delivers his second budget address today.
The fiscally conservative governor is expected to propose limited tax cuts for businesses, a modest increase in property tax rebates for certain homeowners and a minimum contribution to the state pension system.
grim 6 isn’t it always, if I’m selling it to you. Move on people housing is dead, foreclosures, unemployment, demographics to name a few. This dog don’t hunt & will not for the foreseeable future. Get ready for the new sh*t storm as oil goes through the roof,1 per gal increase cost US consumer 2.6 bil a week. Ben better get the B2 warmed up, helicopters do not have the payload capacity needed for the job.
grim11 that should be great theater.
grim
I heard just that from a friend of mine on Saturday. I still think anyone outside of this blog believes in that slogan. He is in Philadelphia i dont know how thing are down there
“It’s always a great time to buy!”
My whole futures board is red, damn wish I wasn’t busy today love to watch this unfold. Up by closing, any calls? Ben is on the job. Well off I go , have a good one folks.
Grim, I don’t think the Philly market has had the same volatility that NJ had / has. That said, prices, even in the “prime” areas have gone down and for the most part, new listings seem to have lower asks than from 1-2 years ago.
Question to you and those on this board: lots of talk on how price drops have made home affordability the best now in many years. I guess I don’t really buy it (no pun intended).
If you look at price : income ratios, is there any info broken down into 10 year silos to show how housing as a % of household income has gone up or down over they last 40 years? I know two income households impact the ratio but I am guessing that if we went back to the ratios of the 60s or 70s, current housing prices would look much too high.
Is it possible for housing to drop another 20% or is there some type of natural price floor that we are close to right now?
toast (16)-
Not only is it possible for housing to drop another 20%, I’m here (as a Realtor) to tell you that it is a mortal lock.
Today’s revelation that NAR cooks the sales numbers means yet one more fraudulent statistic is now piled upon the lies we have been fed for the last four years on UE, bank solvency, the true value of PMs, etc.
At some point (and I believe, soon), this giant pyramid of lies will collapse under its own weight, and asset values that have been levitated solely by helium and falsehoods will collapse.
Like BC always says, no gubmint in history has printed its way to prosperity, and we will not be the first.
Embrace the oblivion. And, feel good about it: the really devastating impact will hit well after we are dead.
Then again, we can keep telling ourselves lies, continue printing money and knuckle down under the wrath of extortion gangs disguised as public sector unions.
We can warm ourselves next to trash can fires, while little Graydon’s teachers live in a collectivist utopia.
Not only is it possible for housing to drop another 20%, I’m here (as a Realtor) to tell you that it is a mortal lock.
What a beautiful statement! Leaving for work… what remains, anyway.
If anyone is looking to buy an entire bank or part of one, I may know of one. When are they going to break up BAC? Balboa will be gone by June and I am sure ML can’t run away fast enough.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-02-21/bofa-almost-doubles-credit-card-unit-writedown-to-20-3-billion.html
nar and mls going the way of govt pensions? Never saw that coming. (Sarcasm)
Flat fee listings make too much sense and they also scare every realtors pants off, which is why all non traditional mls listings are severely black-balled by the entire establishment.
Did anyone see the article in the Sunday Record about the condo market recovering? What complete and total bullsh*t!
Here is the trend, kids. Ignore it at your own peril.
– deflation in all leveraged assets
– inflation in necessities, commodities and consumer goods
This trend will probably continue until domestic violence breaks out and/or the Bernank and Eraserhead die.
We’re close to five years into this ocean of shit, and no one besides Madoff has spent a day in prison yet.
Well, grim, if even Free Dating Chat Rooms (#21) has discovered that you are a very clever individual, we know your influence is vast! :-)
#23 neanderthal – Flat fee MLS is great for some people. Just like any great tool, you have to use it properly. Without easy showing, proper pricing and a sub commission high enough (2% minimum) to attract showings from buyer’s agents, it is no more useful than a FSBO ad in the Sunday paper.
I don’t believe individual listings are shunned by agents if they meet the criteria I described. Problem is that most of these listings are difficult to show and seriously overpriced. Buyer’s agents are just happy to earn a commission these days.
19. Your talking points are stale.
Italian stock exchange fails to open this morning. Move on; nothing to see here:
“Yesterday we pointed out that UniCredit, the bank which had fallen by 5% in day trading, was 7% owned by Libyan interests (we also noted some other odd Libyan holdings). Today, this stigmata is far more of a curse than a blessing, as not only the bank, but the entire Italian stock exchange, the Borsa Italia, is in major unwind mode, and has been halted all day. FT reports: “Borsa Italiana, the Italian exchange, failed to open as usual on Tuesday amid concerns in the Italian broking community about possible fallout from turmoil in Libya. The outage, which left brokers unable to process orders, came a day after the main Italian stock market index closed down 3.6 per cent, making it the worst performing European market on Monday. Traders in London said the failure to open meant that the crucial opening auction, which sets initial prices at the Borsa, had also not taken place. Yet there was growing demand from investors to trade certain blue chip Italian stocks.” Following up with a European market participant we got the following: “stock exchange suspension has been ordered to handle massive unwind of positions in some of the largest index components. Significant dislocation occurring on swap and option market on the FTSE MIB as well…. So you see, it’s not just in the US that it is forbidden to sell.” In other words, when faced with a huge deluge of selling, best to implement the biggest known circuit breaker of all and just shut it down. In the meantime, UniCredit CDS trading away from Italy was 3% wider this morning as concerns about that “7%” spook risk holders.”
http://www.zerohedge.com/article/pervasive-cross-asset-liquidations-force-halt-italian-stock-exchange
As my grandma used to say: “Figures don’t lie, but liars can figure.”
sx (29)-
The only thing that is stale is the length of time my talking points have been valid.
You’d think we’d come to our senses after five years of pain, but there are still too many entrenched interests who are benefitting (i.e., looting the system) from the complete destruction of the US.
hope he wins.
“A New York lawyer who says the condo he wanted to buy was missing 109 promised square feet is taking his dispute to trial next month.
Rishi Bhandari agreed to pay $795,000 for a two-bedroom apartment in a building being converted to condominiums, the New York Times reports. Shortly before closing, he noticed the unit was smaller than he expected. The bedrooms, living room and kitchen were supposed to cover 743 square feet, but Bhandari’s measurements showed 634 square feet.
The developer offered to refund Bhandari’s deposit and let him out of the contract, but Bhandari didn’t like the offer. Instead, Bhandari wanted a price reduction for the discrepancy, calculated to be about $111,000 by one appraiser. His suit claims deceptive trade practices and false advertising.
The developer has countered that its offering plans warned that square footage was approximate, and included “points behind the boundary walls.” Its countersuit claims Bhandari breached the purchase contract.”
http://www.abajournal.com/news/article/lawyer_claims_condo_was_missing_109_square_feet_in_suit_against_developer/
[14] xroads
FWIW, I have a friend trying to unload his townhouse in Phila. It is a nice house in a great section of the city. He has reduced the price but it ain’t moving.
NAR are a jerks. Anyhow. Went to one open house near me that was a brand new listing of a four bedroom in a good neighborhood. Only one there, two realtors, they tried to sell me so I said I need room for pool. Then they harrass me that you can put one in a corner sideyard, when I explain town only allows 4 feet fence in sideyard, but you need six feet for pool plus you have to move pool in further when in sideyard and there is power lines nearby which you have to move away from the realtors go oh you just need a variance for fence, variance for pool and maybe you could get power lines moved. I was like, look I am being nice. The only way to make this house better is with a gallon of gas and a pack of matches. Then they were like call me, Mattress salespeople, used carsales men and timeshare salesmen share the same ethics code as the NAR>
Debt,
Forget all of the other components affecting housing prices. Just consider the impact that the mass move or the boomers into retirement will have!!! Their investment portfolios have gotten rocked and they now expect to pull their retirement out of their vaunted housing equity. Who do they sell the POS cape to for 750K when it ws last updated in 1980 and carries a 15K annual tax bill?
That alone in enough to cause a major depression in the housing market and that is just the tip of the iceberg.
From Bloomberg:
“President Barack Obama has called the Wisconsin bill “an assault on unions.” Organizing for America, the White House’s political operation, is helping state Democrats make phone calls and perform other grassroots work in opposition to the legislation in Ohio, said Chris Redfern, chairman of the state party.”
Forget Arizona and the lawsuit’ if this WH wants to spark a civil war, interfering in the fiscal matters of a state is a far more effective way to get us to a shooting war.
I love how there is virtually no mention of the chaos spreading through the middle east yet you find things like this: Violent Juarez video game upsets critics in the headlines.
And why exactly would anyone be upset about such a game when the city of Juarez is seeing open urban warfare on a daily basis with military grade weapons?
[37] redux,
Further, and this is provocative, if the WH is going to make the Feds a player in the politics of a state, that makes them a legitimate target for all (and I mean all) manner of state political action.
For example, if the WH operatives are conducting political operations in Ohio or Wisconsin, the governors should turn the tax dogs loose on them. This can, and perhaps should, extend to levying taxes on government agency offices if any political activity is conducted from those agencies.
And 0n a Clotpoll level, if the union thugs revert to form, and there is a backlash, the feds should not be immune. As Clemenza would say ‘they ain’t civilians anymore.”
[38] Kettle1
Hey, you’re back!
As for the weaps, ixnay on the ilitarymay grade. The administration would have us believe that Mexican drug lords are getting all their hardware from American gun shows. If it gets out that they are actually using military-grade hardware, not avail. to civilians here (?), that undercuts The Chosen One’s propaga, er, message.
Nom,
Sorry, I missed that memo.
its too bad that the drug lords are buying their weapons directly from the military as well as machining their own military grade weapons in clandestine facilities. A few of these facilities have been found and appear to have most of the latest and greatest manufacturing tech. It aint no mom & pop operation.
Dont for get the Chinese connection either. They sell knock off weapons dirt cheap just like walmart sells knock off knick-knacks for pennies.
The US military recently began issuing armor piercing M-16 ammo (Tungsten core 5.56) to troops and you cannot legally buy it in the US yet. Somehow that ammo is reportedly showing up in mexico already. Its great for penetrating common body armor.
December home prices slip for 6th straight month
REUTERS — 3 MINUTES AGO
NEW YORK (Reuters) – Single-family home prices fell for the sixth month in a row in December, in line with expectations, a closely watched survey said on Tuesday.
The S&P/Case Shiller composite index of 20 metropolitan areas declined 0.4 percent in December from November on a seasonally adjusted basis. The figure was in line with analysts’ expectations.
During the fourth quarter, home prices declined 3.9 percent from the previous quarter and were down 4.1 percent compared to the fourth quarter 2
31. The country’s been looted — beginning in 1979 — with the selling out of our manufacturing base and the quantum leap in earnings for the CEOs who did it.
Move on, nothing to see here….Cha-ching.
This is shaping up to be a particularly doomy day/year. Saudi arabia will destabilize and my gas will go through the roof. I might have to invest in a polyethylene gas tank because these 5 gallon cans aren’t going to cut it.
I was looking at the canadian energy trusts to play this upcoming oil spike but I’m not convinced.
Pretty soon NJ is going to look like Shanghai. Picture 1 million mopeds on the parkway for the am commute.
I like how they say home prices fell 4% in one year as if it is no big deal. But lets say you bought a POS 500K house in BC one year ago with 20% down.
Well you financed 400k at 5% which is 24K in interest income.
4% of 500k loss is $20k.
Total money out the door is 44K.
20% down means you put invested 100K of your money in the house in a downpayment. A 44k loss is a 44% loss of your investment.
Real Estate is heavily leveraged. For the thing to work home prices have to rise every year.
People are crying the muni market is broken, 100K in muni bonds yielding 5% last year are now only trading for 90K. A 10K loss, but you got 5k in interest income so you are only out 5k, and that 5k loss is on paper if you hold to maturity. That is a meltdown.
RE a 44% loss on same 100k investment. Is no big thing.
Double dip is firmly in place. New lows hit in the NY metro area.
Will update the home price tracker later this afternoon.
#44 JJ
Don’t you have to subtract the cost of renting a comparable home from that 44k loss? If renting a similar place costs 30k a year, wouldn’t the loss be 14k plus the maintenance and repairs?
Love this blog
What does “cape” mean?
safe (46)-
jj, the titan of WS, assumes that if you didn’t buy a house, you live in your car.
43. I like scooters. Better than minivans. Cept where do you put the kids?
“Double dip is firmly in place.”
JB,
More like a single scoop depression.
Forget guido market failure, Declining RE, Shiny 1405, $96 barrel, dictators killing own people, food price inflation causing riots and gov’t failures around the globe, NAR, unemployment, BAC, Eraserhead, loan modifications, etc…
James Dolan and Isiah Thomas gave us Carmelo Anthony and Chauncey Billups this morning. Just sold two tickets to Wendsdays game for 225% above face.
Greenshoots and mustard seeds for everyone!
#34 JJ says – “Mattress salespeople, used carsales men and timeshare salesmen share the same ethics code as the NAR”
Realtors really aspire to have the same ethics code as Wall Street. Many of us just don’t have what it takes to stoop that low. I’m doing my best though…gonna file for “moral bankruptcy”. That might be enough to get me there!
Essex 49
If you live in certain parts of the world you put the whole family on the scooter
http://nimg.sulekha.com/others/original700/2008-8-13-16-54-15-3062c316f97d47d5906f13be8347829f-3062c316f97d47d5906f13be8347829f-2.jpg
How’s the dead pool looking for the spring selling season?
I’m learning to embrace policy risk (and the oblivion).
USO opened over a buck over my strike price this morning, and my metals stops put me solidly in the positive. Thank you Col. Qaddafi.
[40] Kettle
Those are inconvenient facts for an administration that wants to use Mexican violence as an excuse for restricting gun rights.
Might as well stage an invasion from Poland with dummy troops. Worked before.
Realtors get in the way of a lot of transactions. Only two houses in last two years I wanted to buy. Both times me and seller were 6% off in price. Both houses are still for sale, one is listed 300 days, one is around 400 days.
Neither house the realtor found for me. I found them on-line. If MLS let homeowners list on their site for same price as realtors and owners passes savings on to buyers a heck of a lot more house would sell. We need a cars.com for homes.
30 year realtor says:
February 22, 2011 at 10:03 am
#34 JJ says – “Mattress salespeople, used carsales men and timeshare salesmen share the same ethics code as the NAR”
Realtors really aspire to have the same ethics code as Wall Street. Many of us just don’t have what it takes to stoop that low. I’m doing my best though…gonna file for “moral bankruptcy”. That might be enough to get me there!
Haven’t done the math, but I think that, netting losses and gains, my metals holdings have paid for my metals holdings.
That is, shiny has paid for lead, brass, and steel alloy.
MSNBC reports from Libya that troops refusing to fire on citizens, just as with Egypt.
Troops refusing to quell street rebellions. That isn’t a development you will hear Obama talking about. Not a good idea to suggest a precedent.
Nom,
Northcom is training to avoid that sort of inconvenience.
anyone see the video on youtube of the protesters being fired on with live ammo??? Not pretty. The video was by one of the protesters. he jumps behind a tree and films the entire event.
Then again, marching on a military checkpoint backed up with APCs and tanks may not be the best idea in general.
Video was from Bahrain. if you want the link google for it, its not hard to find. I wont post it here due to its fairly graphic nature.
[61] Kettle
It is something that they take seriously. Both the administration and liberal attack groups have gone after Oathkeepers. Want to nip this deprogramming thing in the bud.
Sas3, (last thread)
I don’t think our public education alternatives are so awful – yours in Green Brook, mine in Bridgewater. Just last week I saw an article in the local paper about how great the Greenbrook middle school is supposed to be. Not necessarily great value for the money for taxpayers, but not awful. But down the road from you in Plainfield they have total crap, and they aren’t allowed much of an alternative. They’d be better off with a Walmart-type school than the Maoist-state-run shop they’ve got.
As for Pingry, $30k a year is a lot of money. I have to make an extra $60k to spend an extra $30k you know. It’s only a couple of miles away from us. I’ll think about it when my kid gets near middle school, particularly if she has a very strong interest in their drama extracurriculars. But currently, I don’t see a huge advantage over our local Bridgewater elementary school. At the moment she’s in the top private shool in Shanghai, while my wife is on a limited term assignment there, and her company is paying those $30k+ bills.
keep this in mind next time you hear that attempt to cut $60B from federal budget would lead to armadeggon.
“According to the 2010 Financial Report of the United States Government, $ 2.3 billion in outlays were reviewed by federal executive branch entities for improper payments last year; 5.5% of these payments, or $125.4 billion were found to be improper. This represents an increase of $16.2 billion from the fiscal year 2009 estimate of $109.2 billion. Furthermore, the GAO estimates that at 5.49%, the rate of error across the entire federal government is roughly the same. Put differently, this means that in fiscal year 2010, $189.7 billion in federal spending, or 5.49% of $3.5 trillion, was overt waste.”
Nom,
The US has one of the most effective military training systems in the world. Ever so it will be hard to get any significant % of your troops to reliably fire on potential neighbors. Even if they do, its a great way to foment division amongst your forces. Historically troops are more likely to intentionally miss then aim true.
JJ #58 – If the houses were listed 6% lower would your offer have been the same?
You found the homes online, how did they get there?
MLS for everyone? So you want to pay what the brokers pay? For brokers it is a cost of doing business broken up over many transactions. Don’t be fooled, the per listing fee is only a portion of the total cost. There are layers of associated costs and membership is paid on an annual basis. It is cheaper to pay a flat fee broker to put the property in MLS and such arrangements are easily found.
From my perspective a good listing agent’s value is in counseling the homeowner on pricing, presentation and negotiation. Some people need these services more than others.
You can blame the real estate business for you not buying those homes but I suspect that if you really wanted one of them you would be living there already.
Title Post;
I should brush up on my RICO and antitrust. I’m sure there’s a fortune to be made twisting Yun’s balls.
Ruh Roh
http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20110222/ts_afp/japaneconomydebtratingmoodys
Nom [38];
As Clemenza would say ‘they ain’t civilians anymore.”
AMC’s been running Godfather, Godfather:Part II, and Goodfellas this month. Amazing how well these hold up.
re # 68 – JJ what is the difference between the ad online and an ad in the NY Times Real Estate section? Are you saying the MLS needs to go the way that the newspaper classifieds have via Craigslist. Craigslist ads for real estate aren’t free and neither are Zillow or Trulia or any other service that provides information. There is always a cost, is it worth 6%? Dunno can you find a house without the advertising is the question? Perhaps driving around the neighborhoods you like if there is a FSBO outside you might have a chance.
re # 71 – #2 or #3 economy in the world’s rating is now negative? How far behind is the US is the question? A decade or two or less?
I am saying I want the ability to list on the MLS website for a flat fee. If I sell it zero commission. If another broker sells it they get 1/2 commission. That way I could contact listing broker (owner) direct.
Juice Box says:
February 22, 2011 at 11:48 am
re # 68 – JJ what is the difference between the ad online and an ad in the NY Times Real Estate section? Are you saying the MLS needs to go the way that the newspaper classifieds have via Craigslist. Craigslist ads for real estate aren’t free and neither are Zillow or Trulia or any other service that provides information. There is always a cost, is it worth 6%? Dunno can you find a house without the advertising is the question? Perhaps driving around the neighborhoods you like if there is a FSBO outside you might have a chance.
if anybody sees deranged state senators fleeing police, this time from Indiana, inform IN state troopers. It is as elections do not matter anymore. Simply “bus in the union thugs and flee the senate” is the new option, openly supported by White House. Civil war is not far behind.
“House Democrats are leaving the state rather than vote on anti-union legislation, The Indianapolis Star has learned.
A source said Democrats are headed to Illinois, though it was possible some also might go to Kentucky. They need to go to a state with a Democratic governor to avoid being taken into police custody and returned to Indiana.”
It is tough to swallow a commission of 60K on a one million dollar home. Meaning I am buying a $940K home for one million. I would be happy to pay them like $500 bucks.
30 year realtor says:
February 22, 2011 at 11:27 am
JJ #58 – If the houses were listed 6% lower would your offer have been the same?
You found the homes online, how did they get there?
MLS for everyone? So you want to pay what the brokers pay? For brokers it is a cost of doing business broken up over many transactions. Don’t be fooled, the per listing fee is only a portion of the total cost. There are layers of associated costs and membership is paid on an annual basis. It is cheaper to pay a flat fee broker to put the property in MLS and such arrangements are easily found.
From my perspective a good listing agent’s value is in counseling the homeowner on pricing, presentation and negotiation. Some people need these services more than others.
You can blame the real estate business for you not buying those homes but I suspect that if you really wanted one of them you would be living there already.
Wow. Shiller separating from case, calling for another 15-25% real price drop. You just have to love that guy to pieces. See marketwatch for article. Case calling bottom. Again.
I assume seller would list at same price, but would go down lower. This home was priced too high and was badly presented and the realtor was not even willing to give me a bj. But really the realtor model is broken. Look at Borders going bankrupt, bricks and morter labor intensive business that try to pass costs on are dead. Like last time I bought a matress, went to sleepys, macy’s etc. to haggle for best price, sat on dozens of beds and then found one I like and haggled on price and then called 1-800-mattress to get bed. I do the same with car dealers, got to multiple ones test drive cars and then go to auction. Realtors are next.
30 year realtor says:
February 22, 2011 at 11:27 am
JJ #58 – If the houses were listed 6% lower would your offer have been the same?
You found the homes online, how did they get there?
The only positive to come out of the protests in Wisconsin is that these teachers will have less sick days to get paid out on when they retire.
Realtors definetly get in the way of transactions. At one open house I asked for copy of seller’s disclosure. I get email from another realtor in the same firm as listing agent (passed my info on without my consent) saying “I have the disclosure, but before I give it to you, let’s meet face-to-face.” I knew it was a ploy to assign me a buyer’s agent. I didn’t write back – I don’t need a buyer’s agent. I know what I want. On another property, I sent in an offer that I’m not fully convinced was passed on to the seller. The house didn’t sell and was withdrawn a few months later.
JJ #79 – The homes are brick and mortar, not the real estate biz. The business will continue to change but the comparisons you make are not the correct ones. More like stock brokerage business in that low commission trading is available, but not right for everyone. Stock brokers provide online research for customers, but not all the tools that they have available.
Like any other business MLS must face the possibility that someone can create a better mousetrap. To believe MLS is only about data is a shallow view.
82, letarded is that you?
The Republican strategy is to split the vast middle and working class – pitting unionized workers against nonunionized, public-sector workers against nonpublic, older workers within sight of Medicare and Social Security against younger workers who don’t believe these programs will be there for them, and the poor against the working middle class.
By splitting working America along these lines, Republicans want Americans to believe that we can no longer afford to do what we need to do as a nation. They hope to deflect attention from the increasing share of total income and wealth going to the richest 1 percent while the jobs and wages of everyone else languish.
Republicans would rather no one notice their campaign to shrink the … pie even further with additional tax cuts for the rich – making the Bush tax cuts permanent, further reducing the estate tax, and allowing the wealthy to shift ever more of their income into capital gains taxed at 15 percent.
sx 82-
Problem is that your post labels you a socailist by the very people that are victimized this sham. I never understood why the middle class was so eager to do the rich’s heavy lifting.
Getting people to pay their share is not the same as socialism.
65: Get Picard on it. Clawbacks, baby.
82. Its not about being against public workers, its about paying them and taxing ourselves reasonably. If they would just agree to moderate salary reductions in light of shrinking revenues, like private sector has already experienced, barely any of them would even have to be layed off. But they are so greedy, they’d rather see half their coworkers on soup lines rather than take a dollar reduction in pay. Its for the kids I tell you.
#79, do you see any point in a “fix things systematically” versus “abolish unions”?
Some things fixes can be easily made through negotiations:
1) fix the practice of depositing sick days for eternity — one can accumulate a years worth easily!
2) fix the pension calculations from “top earning years” to an inflation-weighted average of salary — or altogether moving to a 401k type — with some insurance against drastic market fluctuations (the x% [employee] + y% [Employer] model seems reasonable)
LOL -Gadhafi wants to “die a martyr” speaking from the compound Ronald Regan bombed back in 1986. If Obama has any nuts he would grant him his wish and finish what Ronald Regan tried to do in 1986. We have to have a few missile boats in the region. Lock on a satellite to him and send the martyr to his maker already.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/dates/stories/april/15/newsid_3975000/3975455.stm
Jamillworm and Nossex…
I never follow party lines…that’s for the weak and feableminded.
One need only look at the teachers pension (one of the less generous programs among the state pension systems in NJ) and see how outrageous it is. This is not Republican vs. Dem or top 1% vs. the rest of us.
Where else can you pay in $90,000 over your career and get out one to 2 million.
Do the effin math you politico robots. 5.5% of your annual salary to be paid out until death at 60 to 70% final salary? Are you kidding me? And there’s like 1 pension per 10 students in the average school district.
neanderthal
how many times has case called bottom ?
Clot, did you see this Italian escort/former adult film star who allegedly has the goods on most of Seria A & the Italian National team?
http://tinyurl.com/4wdwyku
If loving international soccer scandals is wrong, I don’t ever want to be right.
http://www.baristanet.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/Gratia-mailer-smaller-filesize.pdf
This is an interesting (albeit highly statistically flawed) marketing piece by a GR realtor.
So companies can use mk-to-mkt to retroactively put pension losses in prior years, thereby making go-forward comparisons more favorable, but banks don’t have to use the same methodology for their RE inventory or notes. FASB is a joke.
http://www.pionline.com/article/20110221/PRINTSUB/302219958
Pounding down Inchgowers 27 year old while sittting in a ring side seat watching the collapse of every social norm and structure created in the 20th century. This is what it must have been like in 4/5th century Rome.
Lib-
My pension fix: Hire an actuary and give us an exact number that the plan is underfunded due to missed payments. Not the total amount that the plan is underfunded, but the amount that is because of missed payments + expected interest . We pay it and then the state walks away and lets the unions run the plan. Moving forward the state gives the plan a 3% match like the an employer gives to a 401k. The expected savings on the match can be used to service the debt payments on bonds that were sold to pay the municipal and state share.
I think that the plan and it’s participants would look at the plan much differently if it did not have the state backstopping it.
82.Essex says:
February 22, 2011 at 1:31 pm
The Republican strategy is to split the vast middle and working class – pitting unionized workers against nonunionized, public-sector workers against nonpublic, older workers within sight of Medicare and Social Security against younger workers who don’t believe these programs will be there for them, and the poor against the working middle class.
By splitting working America along these lines, Republicans want Americans to believe that we can no longer afford to do what we need to do as a nation. They hope to deflect attention from the increasing share of total income and wealth going to the richest 1 percent while the jobs and wages of everyone else languish.
Republicans would rather no one notice their campaign to shrink the … pie even further with additional tax cuts for the rich – making the Bush tax cuts permanent, further reducing the estate tax, and allowing the wealthy to shift ever more of their income into capital gains taxed at 15 percent
The majority of Independents like myself who has never been a Republican or Democrat, can’t afford the Public Sector Salaries & Benefits and needs them cut back to reasonable standards. Pensions & Healthcare can be rolled back to whatever the IRS says is the National Average. That gives them parity. Please stop ignoring the Fact that we can’t afford it!
Can we elect a horse to the Senate?
d2b
that would be a nuclear event for many pensions
JJ: “It is tough to swallow a commission of 60K on a one million dollar home. Meaning I am buying a $940K home for one million. I would be happy to pay them like $500 bucks. ”
The home I’m currently negotiating (Milwaukee, moved out of NJ 2 years ago) is less than a third of the prices you’re talking about, but am paying a lawyer friend $300 to submit the offers and negotiate the deal. Seller only has to pay for their agent.
On saturday I offered $260k vs the asking price of $285k (down from $360k when it first went on the market 1.5 years ago). They came back last night with $268k. Probably should have offered $250k, but the place is freakin nice so not worth a few grand to piss them off too much. Wrote a sappy letter with the offer about how me and the wifey appreciate all of the hard work they put into the place, can see ourselves raising a family there, look forward to bringing the garden back to it’s former award winning glory blah blah blah. I was expecting a counter of 280 or 275 so maybe it worked a little.
Tomorrow will having an HVAC guy look over the system while I take another close look around. If nothing is crumbling or about to explode will counter with a BAF $265k, no home inspection, include everying in the house (nice snowblower and patio furniture mainly) except for the Excalibur in the garage.
Of course Shiller’s and Clot’s prognosis don’t exactly give me the warm fuzzies, but this one’s too nice to pass up.
Any opinion out there on <$2k gas ranges? Sears has Kenmore Elites 30% off for 2 more days. Pretty nice 30" freestanding model with convection oven, decent horsepower and reasonably good construction is now $1350. Still trying to find out what the owner's had in the 45.5" wide space. Something french and very pricy judging by the low-res MLS photo.
I'm thinking a nice 30" 5-burner with a 15.5" butcher block/open storage is the way to go.
kettle-
There is speculation here in Philly that the food workers local can’t accept a restructuring plan for ACME markets because the plan requires buyouts of workers that have been with the company for many years. The pension fund can not absorb the hit and needs the workers payments to keep the fund going. The union wants SuperValu to make a one time payment to the system before passing the vote.
A wall street bond trader complaining about intermediation? Hard to have much sympathy.
82 Essex.
Its not a Republican strategy so much as it is Republicans seeing an opportunity and seizing it. Just because it has become a perfect opportunity for Republicans DOES NOT mean that the basic issues being confronted are not 100% valid. We can’t afford this any longer. If these facts are playing the the republican’s favor, whose fault is that?
[87] sas3
You are being too logical. This is political theater. There are more than one tune being played here.
1. Swing for the fences. When you do this in baseball, you win big or strike out. In politics, it gives you an opportunity to test out themes, probe your opposition, and lay the groundwork for the points you raised.
2. Let them have your way. Pertinent to number one, if the points you make are offered as concessions, they may be easier to swallow. The unions were going to say no to anything out of the box. When faced with extinction, they will settle for a haircut.
3. Frame the opposition. Both sides are trying to do this, and they appear to be playing to their bases. But what will carry the day is what resonates with the vast middle. Both sides are also trying out themes to win over the middle. Too soon to say who will win.
4. Making the alternatives palatable. If the unions are successful in beating back the legislation, a governor can, and should, use this as an opportunity to clean house. Again, the unions will scream but this time, the screaming will fall on deafer ears because the parents that got stuck with kids on sickout days, and those that hear tax increase versus cuts in services they don’t use or even know of will not be sympathetic to the union cause.
5. Give on a symbolic issue. Paradoxically, if I were to relent on one issue, it would be a millionaire’s tax. I’d offer grudgingly to float it as a temporary surcharge on, say, income over 1MM, expiration in 2 years. Guess what? It won’t collect dime one, and would actually cost the state money, and probably some jobs. That’s what happened when Maryland tried it, and WI is geographically similar.
[82] essex
fwiw, I don’t care whether the unions win in WI or not. Personally, I would not mind seeing them win, provided we immediately see WI start to circle the drain (a bond downgrade right after a union victory would be a good start). It will have a salutary result on negotiations in other states if a Rust Belt state commits fiscal hara kiri, so long as the GOP stands by its pledge not to bail out profligate states.
If you haven’t guessed, I am all for letting the states do what they want, and returning to the constitutional construction we have long strayed from, where most power vested at the state level. Then we would have real curbs on abuses since we could use the Bekins vote to effect policy.
d2b, 3% employer contribution is too low — and it will be a race to bottom. My alternate benefits plan is at 5% (or more for employee) plus 8% employer. In industry jobs I worked, it was always no match.
I think IBM has moved from pensions to something closer to the 8% contribution. But they also have employee stock purchase plans (big deal with the upfront discount they offer).
There are significant differences between different types of employment, so trying to make everything homogeneous is not desirable…
d2b
Color me shocked! You mean that the various pension funds weren’t returning an annualized 8% ????? I wonder how their funding fares when faced with a 3% projection?
sas3 105-
It’s a start. But the central issue is that the participants need to take ownership of their retirement plan. One would hope that this would produce a plan with withdraws that adequately reflect contributions. It’s simple. If the participants own the plan, then they make the rules. Right now the state truly owns the plan.
That being said, 401k’s are the swindle of the century. We continue to turn this country’s retirement over to crooks and liars that have crashed the system without consequences twice in a decade.
Lindsay Lohan’s former LI house put on market for $1.295m on 3-22-2010, her parents rented it for 4 years when she went to Cold Spring Harbor HS.
Still for sale today at 100K less.
13 Stillwell Ln LAUREL HOLLOW $1,195,000
Post Modern, 1 Family
9.0 Rooms
5 Bedrooms, 4.5 Baths
Garage: 2.0 Att
Annual Taxes: $19,301
Cold Spring Harbor School District
Year Built: 1978
Lot Size: 2.4 Acres
Last Sale 05/17/2005 $1,285,000
Also sold 08/09/2000 $535,000
If you look at 2005 price appears to be bargain, if you look at 2000 price appears expensive. However, this is a super nice house in the number one rated HS in tri-state area with a train line. Plus a celeb lived there and it still can’t sell, shows how weak market is.
There was once a time when rich benefits were granted to our public servants in exchange for them giving up a much more opportunistic career in the private sector. In more recent times, politicians have made so many promises in exchange for votes as well as from the return on the investment offered by union lobbyists that both public sector salaries and benefits now surpass that of the private sector. I support the concept of unions and collective bargaining. I really do. What I don’t support is the exchange of a union vote or endorsement in return for financial gain of the union membership.
It’s not the Republican’s who should be faulted for trying to bust the unions. It’s the fault of the unions for not paying Republican leadership enough to garner their favoritism.
This is how it works today. Send in your contributions now and don’t forget to check off that box on your tax returns to keep these crooks thieving.
So how do you all think the typical American fat ass will look on one of these fine vehicles?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kaP353v8JWY
#96 Yup. There is no money. The unions can picket and complain all they want. It doesn’t change the fact that, for a variety of reasons, the money just isn’t there to pay the benefits that were promised. Where do the public employees think the money is going to come from? The rich? They’ll move away. Corporations? They’ll move away. Individual income taxes? They’ll move away. Property taxes……oops. People usually can’t move away unless they can sell their houses first. Who would want to take on a tax burden that can rise to infinity? Uh oh.
d2b, do you think the common options in 401k (bond-funds and index-funds and some more aggresive funds) are restrictive/unstable? I fear that making it like an IRA may lead to more day traders.
Of course, the money should be completely off limits to anyone except the owner.
As Lt. Aldo Raines would say, “this [fcuk] wants to die for his country. Oblige him.”
http://www.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/africa/02/22/libya.protests/index.html?hpt=T1
#111, it is more than the money. In case of WI, the unions were ready to compromise on the money aspects, but want to retain collective bargaining rights. Walker says no to that.
SAS
I fear that making it like an IRA may lead to more day traders.
Whats the problem? If someone wants to gamble their own money then so be it. If they personally feel they are not comfortable or competent to manage it them dump it into a fund option.
You implied meaning is that they need some parental figure managing their resources for them whether they like it or not.
I was wondering if we would see any of this in Wisconsin:
http://newsofthenorth.net/article/Top_Stories/WI_State_News/Tea_Party_group_starts_petition_to_recall_Sen_Jim_Holperin_one_of_14_Democrats_who_left_Capitol/120218
[115] kettle
The USG has more than one vested interest in preventing people from pissing away their IRAs. First, it deprives the USG of tax revenue in the future, and, second, it raises the prospect of people relying on gov. for their support to a greater extent than they would otherwise.
I am worried about the prospects for IRAs, traditional and Roth. For traditional and 401(k)s, I may, for both tax and nontax reasons, advocate cashing out as quickly as possible once you reach 55, with a goal of having all retirement assets out of retirement solution by age 60. I’d go into detail as to why, but I don’t give away my advice for free.
Ket, you are right. I withdraw my argument, especially since it is now possible for someone to liquidate the IRA/401k and gamble away easily (though at a 10% penalty and regular taxes).
Gahdafi to pull a Saddam and sabotage oil facilities?
From Time Magazine
There’s been virtually no reliable information coming out of Tripoli, but a source close to the Gaddafi regime I did manage to get hold of told me the already terrible situation in Libya will get much worse. Among other things, Gaddafi has ordered security services to start sabotaging oil facilities. They will start by blowing up several oil pipelines, cutting off flow to Mediterranean ports. The sabotage, according to the insider, is meant to serve as a message to Libya’s rebellious tribes: It’s either me or chaos.
Read more: http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,2052961,00.html#ixzz1Ej3a4K8B
http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,2052961,00.html
make (51)-
I can’t help but think that ‘Melo and Chauncey come to the Knicks along with a quadruple dose of bad Isiah ju-ju. Having Isiah anywhere near this deal- or Dolan- hangs like a fart in a crowded subway car.
Juice,m
Its a good thing OPEC has that emergency meeting about meeting Libyan shortfalls with other OPEC reserves.
From Time Magazine
There’s been virtually no reliable information coming out of Tripoli, but a source close to the Gaddafi regime I did manage to get hold of told me the already terrible situation in Libya will get much worse. Among other things, Gaddafi has ordered security services to start sabotaging oil facilities. They will start by blowing up several oil pipelines, cutting off flow to Mediterranean ports. The sabotage, according to the insider, is meant to serve as a message to Libya’s rebellious tribes: It’s either me or chaos.
30 year (80)-
A small cadre of posters here has clung to such a “shallow view” for close to five years now. For my first year or two here, I had enough energy to engage them in much the same way you are now. However, after a couple of years, I just came to accept the bleatings of these wahoos as white noise.
It’s amazing how many people outside the RE business are experts on the RE business.
“Like any other business MLS must face the possibility that someone can create a better mousetrap. To believe MLS is only about data is a shallow view.”
Debt,
Melo is a great player. All the rest we sent to Denver are “replacable”.
stu (89)-
This is what happens when millions of sheeple continually mistake a math problem for a political one.
DO THE MATH. THE MONEY ISN’T THERE. THE PUBLIC PENSION SYSTEM IS UNSUSTAINABLE. PERIOD.
dome (91)-
Man, that thing has some serious mileage on her.
stu (92)-
You have to hand it to Keller-Williams; they brainwash more effectively than any other company in RE.
Im back in the Canadian energy stocks. Nice to have some decent yield back on the table. Fing miners like AEM are so manipulated.
Get your mopeds ready folks. Petro dollar is going bye bye. Thank you Arabians for your oil. We will now use our own. Have fun with your T-bills and camels.
Al 128
sounds good in theory but that doesn’t come without some serious pain on our end as well.
Debt,
Veto/Neanderthal should repost the prediction chart he made with everyone projected drop from peak, and we can see who is still in the game.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1359339/Video-girls-fighting-maple-syrup-Dennys-restaurant-goes-viral.html#ixzz1EhfiUjRY
the end is neigh!
Clot, one good start for the pension problem is to restructure it dramatically (or make it 401k type plans) for new hires (of all professions). All of that can be done without busting unions.
Debt,
I dug up Veto’s prediction chart updated as of Dec 2010
http://www.scribd.com/full/44717891?access_key=key-1od159ogih58qac5vdx2
129.
No doubt Ket,
Probably will be apocalyptic for awhile. Nothing a moped cant handle. If my kid was 18 and didnt want to goto college I would get him in the oil business.
Realtors jobs are to make money for themselves and to make money for their office. Secondly their job is to get the most for the people who hired them to sell their house.
My problem is they like to pretend they are helping buyers and like to pitch real estate as an investment. As a buyer I hate when they say they want to help me. I hate dealing with sales-people. Heck I bought a matress this weekend and sleepy’s salesperson when asked if that was best price told me that is lowest price allowed, she even showed me her screen with a lock next to it indicating that is lowest price, even said today only free shipping, even offered a better price if I bought two. Of course next sleepys I went to gave me a lower price, then I called Sleepys 800 number and they beat the two stores price. Finallly, I call 1-800 Matress and stuff is not on sale but regular price is a few hundred less. Realtors annoy me cause I want to look at houses that realtors sell then call some type of 1-800-real estate number and buy them with 1% commission. The realtors are much stronger than the car dealers and matress sellers. They are holding on to their turf. I did not want to pay sleepys a few hundred bucks extra to pay the salary of their sales person and rent on store, did not want to pay a few thousand extra to a car dealer for their sales person and rent on store but somehow hard to buy a home in a good neighbor hood with out the realtor extracting the price of a brand new BMW. God bless realtors they have families to support. Trouble is it is not my job to pay their kids tuitions. One realtor said she wants me to buy a house cause she has NYU tuition to pay. I said jokingly that is nice to know I have kids of my own so you are telling me your plan to take from my kids college savings plan to pay for your kids education. She laughed and said I don’t like to think of it that way.
Debt Supernova says:
February 22, 2011 at 4:41 pm
30 year (80)-
A small cadre of posters here has clung to such a “shallow view” for close to five years now. For my first year or two here, I had enough energy to engage them in much the same way you are now. However, after a couple of years, I just came to accept the bleatings of these wahoos as white noise.
It’s amazing how many people outside the RE business are experts on the RE business.
“Like any other business MLS must face the possibility that someone can create a better mousetrap. To believe MLS is only about data is a shallow view.”
131:
Was that Tiger in the background?
JJ [131];
Thanks for the laugh. I love how her trampy thong is hanging out – other girl should have cr°tch flossed her.
134. yeah you two could corner the market on lube.
[131] JJ
That Denny’s was in Chicopee, Mass., which is home to an Air Force Base and a good deal of Mass. trailer trash.
Detrius falls down. In Mass., it accumulates on the Conn. and RI borders.
19.
First, your attempt to connect collective bargaining by public employees to state budgetary woes fails, as states that prohibit such collective bargaining are also suffering from fiscal shortfalls right now. For example, Texas prohibits collective bargaining, and its projected FY2012 budgetary shortfall of $13.4 billion is 31.5% of its FY2011 budget. Similarly, North Carolina’s $3.8 billion projected shortfall is 20% of its budget. Wisconsin’s shortfall, meanwhile, is 12.8%.
The current deficits are largely the result of two things – the Bush tax cuts and the Bush Recession. If we rescind those tax cuts and restore economic growth, much of our short term deficit issues will disappear.
Third, your suggestion that everyone must be hurt by austerity is highly problematic. Over the past 30 years, large tax cuts and deregulation have enabled the wealthy elite to make out like bandits while the middle class has rapidly disappeared. The gap between the rich and poor has widened, and the vast majority of economic wealth created over the last three decades has gone to the top 20% and, especially, the top 1%. It is only fair that those same folks should be asked to contribute more to reducing our deficits than those in the middle and at the bottom who have hardly benefited from our economy over the past 30 years.
Taxes are currently at 9% of GDP, which is half of the average in post-WWII America. So, let’s increase that to 18% to begin with by asking the wealthy and large corporations to begin paying their fair share again.
Then, let’s cut military spending, and eliminate agricultural and other corporate subsidies.
Then, let’s expand on the efforts in the health care reform bill to make our health care system more efficient so that we can reduce cost growth in Medicare and Medicaid.
Then, let’s have the Social Security tax apply to all income, rather than just the first $90,000.
Then, let’s get more immigrants on a track toward legal status and then citizenship, so that we have more younger people paying into Social Security and Medicare.
Finally, let’s invest in infrastructure and restore state and local government budgets so that we can restore economic growth and, therefore, increase revenue.
sastry (132)-
No go. The unions have to be busted up, because they sell their votes, campaign contributions and assistance to candidates who toss them the unsustainable pensions and bennies that have us in the current vat of crap. Collective bargaining by public unions is nothing less than extortion, and even FDR opposed it.
If we don’t bust up the unions, they will still practice some form of a forced Ponzi upon their own membership, too.
Last in, first out…and, someday within one generation, we will have this same crisis all over again.
Go Walker, go Christie, go Kasich!!
140.Essex says:
February 22, 2011 at 6:44 pm
19.
Good stand up comedy routine, or do you actually believe what you said? If so, we can cut military costs by requiring all teachers to serve four years in the military for $100/mo like I did during Viet Nam. Much cheaper then volunteers & Haliburton. As far as medical turn the clock back to 1980 and tell everyone Cholesterol is natural, taking pills isn’t, you’ll save a fortune.
143. Their ultimate goal is to eliminate as many gubmint programs as possible. Including things like unemployment, which it appears, you use with some frequency.
144. I have a feeling you missed a few classes. Or did the short bus not pick you up for school often?
The military is a vast and unbelievably ineffectual money suck. They haven’t won a war since the forties and they cost the earth. Screw em.
Essex,
Your fat, cake eating union buddies priced themselves out of the market not to mention their crappy cars. Teachers should just be flat out fired. Public education is not only inefficient it is dangerous. Look what they have done to our society over the past 30 years.
Its over for you union Commie subversives. Im going to laugh as the fire hoses bounce off those obese, lazy b_stards.
Mossturd you couldn’t pour pee out of a boot if the instructions were written on the heel.
mosssturd, do you even know what a ‘commie’ is. You see the retards always think they know what is best for everyone. But who wants to live like a retard? I read one book. The bible. But I dint unnerstand it.
More news I am sure you all will enjoy reading:
http://www.npr.org/blogs/health/2011/02/22/133968901/virus-passed-during-oral-sex-tops-tobacco-as-throat-cancer-cause
It’s always the dumbest bastards you know who now claim “Glen Beck” as an influence. Bunch of freakin’ mouth breathing morons running the country into oblivion. Yeah let’s get the teachers now!!! They caused this whole mess. LMFAO
148. Mossberg your a faggot.
How are unions helping middle class? Look what they have done to property taxes.
I realize they were established to serve an important purpose but they have gotten carried away with their mission.
Essex, looks like you are going below the belt (wrt Gary and the f@ggot thing)… I know it is easier said than done, but why feed the trolls?
I’d simply like to express my true feelings and let complete f*cking ingrates know I am on to them.
Essex,
This video demonstrates why everyone hates the unions.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OdREEcx0-Qc
sastry (155)-
If you think Gary is a troll, you’re high.
146.Essex says:
February 22, 2011 at 7:24 pm
144. I have a feeling you missed a few classes. Or did the short bus not pick you up for school often?
No buses, I took the Subway to Brooklyn Technical High School & after the Military Obligation to Long Island University at night. Brooklyn Tech was much harder then LIU, so first two years were a snap.
#147 Which branch did you serve in?
160.Outofstater says:
February 22, 2011 at 9:27 pm
#147 Which branch did you serve in
He had to be 4F.
Kettle nice find on the chart. I’m looking good on my call, just give it time . MW
#161 That’s what I was thinking. Or one of the ones who think that wearing the uniform of one’s country is for losers. I wonder if he has a mirror.
Screw the military. I wouldn’t waste my time there. Every single person I have known came out of the service dumber than when they went in, if that is possible, and generally wasted years of their lives.
What I find truly funny, is that you imbeciles berate teachers and cops for their benefits, buy you stinky hypocrites have no issue cashing your own benefit checks. What in fact was your big contribution? You kept us ‘safe’??? How by effectively losing the last two or three wars that we fought in? Wearing a uniform and enlisting along with a group of morons makes you a real American. Pathetic. The military will take any idiot that will fog a mirror.
I respect the man….not the uniform.
Say something that is intelligent and logical and not just a parroting of Rush Limpdick and maybe you’ll actually win over someone to your side. Otherwise you are nothing but a misguided idiot working to put our country back 100 years and turn it into a third world oligarchy. google it.
It seems Confused and I touched a nerve. Your ignorance is breathtaking.
Goodnight all.
I’m just telling it like it is.