New Jersey Home Price Tracker – February 2011

The New Jersey Home Price Index Tracker has been updated to include:
* December S&P Case Shiller (Aggregate, Tiered, Condo)

(click to enlarge)

(click to enlarge)

S&P Case Shiller NY Metro Commutable Area Home Price Index

Low Tier (Under $287,359) – Peaked in October 2006 and is down 29.1% from peak

Mid Tier ($287,395 – $456,159) – Peaked in September 2006 and is down 23.4% from peak

High Tier (Over $456,159) – Peaked in June 2006 and is down 17.5% from peak

Aggregate (Overall Market) – Peaked in June 2006 and is down 22.3% from peak

Condo-Only Index – Peaked in February 2006 and is down 14.9% from peak

This entry was posted in Economics, Housing Bubble, New Jersey Real Estate. Bookmark the permalink.

219 Responses to New Jersey Home Price Tracker – February 2011

  1. Essex says:

    Would that be one dip? Or two?

  2. grim says:

    From the Star Ledger:

    New York metropolitan area home prices at lowest in 4 years

    Home prices in the New York metropolitan area are at their lowest point in four years, despite improvements elsewhere in the economy, according to a report released yesterday.

    The Standard & Poor’s/Case-Shiller home price index found home prices through December are down 22.2 percent from their peak in June 2006, and down 2.3 percent in that month alone, compared to December 2009. The area includes northern and central New Jersey and other tri-state counties that are within commutable distance of New York.

    The rate of decline here is slightly below the levels for the country’s 20 largest metropolitan areas, which are down 2.4 percent year over year and 31 percent below their peak in July 2006, according to the study, which only looks at single-family residential home sales.

    “Despite improvements in the overall economy, housing continues to drift lower and weaker,” said David Blitzer, chairman of Standard & Poor’s Index Committee.

    There is “no recovery yet,” he said in a conference call with reporters.

    “I’m not willing to give up the ghost and say we’re definitely at the bottom, but I think there’s a chance we are,” Blitzer said. “But, it’s not something to say with great confidence these days.”

    Asked to describe the current housing market on the call, Shiller said it is “vulnerable” and Case said it is “bouncing along the bottom, with a slightly downward trend.”

  3. grim says:

    From Bloomberg:

    Home Prices in 20 U.S. Cities Fall 2.4% From Year Earlier

    Residential real-estate prices dropped in the 12 months to December by the most in a year, a sign the U.S. housing market is struggling even as the rest of the economy recovers.

    The S&P/Case-Shiller index of home values in 20 cities fell 2.4 percent, the biggest year-over-year decrease since December 2009, the group said today in New York. The median forecast of economists surveyed by Bloomberg News projected a 2.3 percent decrease.

    A predicted increase in foreclosures this year as banks resume seizures may depress home values further, prompting would-be buyers to hold off on purchases. Unemployment at 9 percent and declines in housing are among reasons the Federal Reserve has signaled it will proceed with its unconventional monetary stimulus.

    Home prices are still declining amid excess supply,” said Michelle Meyer, a senior economist at Bank of America Merrill Lynch Global Research in New York. “Although transactions have started to pickup, buyers are looking for very low prices. There is a backlog of distressed properties and it will flow into the market this year. We expect to see a gradual drop in prices.”

  4. grim says:

    From New Jersey Newsroom:

    Is now a good time to buy a home in New Jersey?

    Timing the market is like trying to catch a falling knife. Or so they say.

    The conventional wisdom is that timing the market is not possible. The notion is that an unexpected change in interest rates or some other unpredictable event can cause the market to turn swiftly. But while that may be true in some markets, it’s not true in the residential real estate market where trends usually do not change abruptly.

    Since the residential real estate market topped out in 2006, the trends have been downward in New Jersey, as in most other areas of the country. Inventories of unsold homes have grown and grown, while the rate of sales has declined and prices have dropped sharply. What’s more, wages are stagnant, unemployment is high, the economy is recovering at a snail’s pace and the recent credit crunch has made getting a mortgage tougher. These factors suggest the housing market has not bottomed out.

    Indeed, nationwide home prices fell 2.6 percent from the third quarter of 2010 to the fourth, the largest drop in nearly two years, according to a report by property portal Zillow. But Zillow Chief Economist Stan Humphries finds good news in that figure — “the decline means we are getting closer to the bottom.” He thinks the housing recession is in its death throes and expects to see an upturn in 2011.

    Even if that prediction turns out to be true nationally, it may not be true for New Jersey. New Jersey still is one of the costliest home markets in the country, in part due to the monthly cost of carrying a home attributable to property taxes. When the affordability of New Jersey homes is taken into account, the likelihood of a New Jersey home price recovery in 2011 dims.

    With these mixed trends in place it seems a good bet that prices will not start rising soon. Only when both economic and affordability trends start to significantly reverse can you feel confident that prices are unlikely to decline much further.

    No one has a crystal ball that reveals future prices. But chances are that in the present market buyers who bide their time will be rewarded.

  5. grim says:

    From the NY Times:

    Home Prices Slid in December in Most U.S. Cities, Index Shows

    Real estate prices slid in just about every part of the country in December, pushing a housing market that once seemed to be rebounding nearly back to its lowest level since the crash began.

    At this dismal point, some economists and analysts say that the damage has been done, and there is nowhere to go but up. Many others argue that the market has still not finished falling.

    And then there are those who maintain that, possibly, things are about to get a whole lot worse.

    Robert J. Shiller, the Yale economist who is the author of “Irrational Exuberance” and who helped develop the Standard & Poor’s/Case-Shiller Home Price Index, put himself in this last group. Mr. Shiller said in a conference call on Tuesday that he saw “a substantial risk” of the market falling another 15, 20 or even 25 percent.

  6. Libtard says:

    Captain Cheapo says, “We be back to the good old days!”

    0% Balance Transfer option with no transfer fees. 12 months 0%APR for both purchases and the balance transfer.

    Use credit responsibly. Don’t complain to me in 12 months that you forgot you owed it.

  7. Libtard says:

    Isn’t it obvious? What we need now is a new housing tax credit. One that’s retroactive to include my recent purchase. Come on now. I’m opening credit cards, I’m spending money (took son to Friendly’s tonight w/ free kid’s meal coupon), I’m against unions. What else do I need to do?

  8. grim says:

    What we need now is a new housing tax credit. One that’s retroactive to include my recent purchase.

    I concur, this just makes sense, just as long my closing timing makes me eligible.

  9. grim says:

    Bring back the higher-level energy efficiency tax credits too, I want a new boiler. Capt. Cheepo, what else do you have for me here. I’ve got energy star rebates ready for the fridge ($100) and dishwasher ($50), and the $500 consumer efficiency tax credit (insulation, windows).

  10. Libtard says:

    Nice Grim. You know I was being sarcastic, but looking at that chart, I’m guessing some politicians will start pushing for another housing credit. It’s not like they can’t print just a little more money?

  11. Libtard says:

    Oh yeah…I’m with you on the boiler. I just replaced my boiler and didn’t get squat for it. What up with that? My $500 washing machine, which I got for $299 even gave me $50 back due to the high efficiency rating. Well at least I thought it did. Haven’t gotten the rebate yet.

  12. BergenBagHolder says:

    Long time lurker, here with some general observations.

    Anon E. Moose-
    Dude, you have been smacked around so much by Clot. It is getting ridiculous. Every time he puts you in your place. Face it, you are out-classed. Every time you try to take him on, he blasts you. Usually with your own words. Besides being a buffoon, you are a fantastic hypocrite. Your position is indefensible. That is all.

    Ok, we get it. Living in the U.S. is 100x better than the life you had growing up in India. That is not the point. The U.S. is currently going down the tubes, we are not interested in you drawing parallels between the two countries. You should let the grown-ups discuss these matters, and sit back and try to learn something.

    Well you have become extremely angry recently. Clearly you see the writing on the wall. You and your teat-sucking family are about to get a dose of reality. That reality is, public workers earn more than private workers thanks to corrupt and greedy unions. Taxpayers are fed up. End of story. The details will work themselves out soon enough, and not to your liking.

  13. Hey kids, while we’re talking about boilers, the bank runs and failures are continuing in S. Korea.

    Boy, you’d hate to see that jump over into China…

  14. Rahm being called the winner in Chicago mayoral race.

    Great choice to preside over the total collapse of the US’ second largest city.

  15. serenity now says:

    Grim – can you send me your e-mail address?

  16. sas3 says:

    “The U.S. is currently going down the tubes”… and I see that most solutions suggested here will power-flush it faster than you can say “sit back and learn”.

  17. gary says:

    Mr. Shiller said in a conference call on Tuesday that he saw “a substantial risk” of the market falling another 15, 20 or even 25 percent.

    tick… tick… tick… tick…

  18. Libtard says:

    Thank the lord none of this will affect Glen Ridge.

  19. Al Mossberg says:



    LMAO. That is one of the best post I have ever read here.

  20. Al Mossberg says:



    Absolutely unbelievable. From ineligible to Mayor. WTF? I guess just like his butt buddy in DC. Who are we going to get in 2012? Ban Ki Moon?

  21. Essex says:

    12. You are a moron. Your teet sucking comment just places you firmly in the bowels of the new GOP effort to send the country back to 1920. I will tell you what I have told the rest of the bottom feeders here. We are fine. Asshole.

  22. Essex says:

    19. mossturd you are truly dumber than dogshit. But then you knew that.

  23. BergenBagHolder says:


    By the way, great calls on GDX and SSRI. I made a bundle. Booked some profits and still holding on to some. Thanks.

  24. Essex says:

    23. Aw cool — let’s pose like badazz day traders. Neato. How much more of a c*ckload could you be there. BTW you couldn’t pay me to live in Bergen county. Home of the ugliest women on the planet along with more benz driving imbeciles per square mile.

  25. Essex says:

    In fact Jersey in general is a cesspool. Most of what people say about this place (in jokes and cultural references) is true. Great proximity to New York has not managed to provide any contact “high” in terms of IQ.

  26. Al Mossberg says:



    I sold most of my SSRI. Some of the miners are so blatantly manipulated. CEO Bob Quartermain left SSRI to run Pretium resources. He brought his geological team with him. I think SSRI still has a huge stake in the exploration and development of the Snowfield and Brucejack properties in British Columbia.

  27. 250k says:

    Lib (18)
    >>Thank the lord none of this will affect Glen Ridge.
    … or Westfield or Short Hills/Millburn or Summit, my Realtor told me so.

  28. Al Mossberg says:

    Check this out.

    Providence faces shortfall, teachers to get dismissal notices

    “PROVIDENCE, R.I. — The school district plans to send out dismissal notices to every one of its 1,926 teachers, an unprecedented move that has union leaders up in arms.

    In a letter sent out to all teachers Tuesday, Supt. Tom Brady wrote that on Thursday the Providence School Board will vote on a resolution to dismiss every teacher, effective the last day of school. ”

  29. Essex says:

    This has got to be one of the dumbest boards on the web. I love coming here just to bask in the complete ignorance. *sigh*

    A model of the future? you betcha! Go Sarah Palin!!! Wahoooooo

  30. Essex says:

    Christies new budget: assuming reductions in public teacher pension and health benefit costs and an application for a Medicaid waiver are accepted” 2 BIG assumptions. enacting a series of business tax cuts that will cost about $200 million in lost revenue during the new budget year. Based on Christie projecting that an additional $1 billion in revenue will come in during the new budget year as economic recovery slowly builds…..Another major assumption. And my favorite – The budget projects business tax collections will go up by 13 percent, income tax collections by nearly 7 percent and sales tax collections by 3 percent. Where is any of this based in some sort of reality?

  31. EJ says:

    I’ve been lurking on this site since 2005. Seems like the advice has been spot on. I have been fortunate to find a house to rent in central jersery for 1300 or so. The plan is to wait out the storm before buying (if ever). I would appreciate similar guidance with regards to retirement, savings, and 401k. Just wondering if there is site that offers similar (no bs) insight?

  32. EJ says:

    Lisa and Stephen Furry splurged on a getaway at a four-star hotel but haven’t paid the mortgage on their North Hollywood home since September. A financial planner helps them with a reality check.

  33. I like this damn guy, the Bergen Bagholder. He’s just what this damn board needs to shake some of you damn real estate terrorists up. Serves you right for ruining this damn housing market.

    Shiller needs to shut the hell up with his negativity. I can’t afford another damn 25% haircut and he’s unamerican for even saying some crap like that. I’m starting to openly wonder if these damn purveyors of pessimism porn are being funded by communists or terrorists. Maybe he needs to be detained and subjected to some damn enhanced interrogation techniques to find out just who the hell is behind him.

  34. EJ says:

    Wells Fargo is meeting today at noon with the Philadelphia homeowner who “foreclosed” on them, The Consumerist has exclusively learned. Patrick says he “received a call from upon high” late yesterday and that he now has an appointment, “with a very senior Wells Fargo person.” It will be interesting to see how this plays out. But how did Patrick go from embattled and ignored homeowner to seated across the negotiating table with leverage? I spoke with him to find out more about both how and why he did what he did. His story is an inspiration to anyone who’s dreamed of going toe-to-toe with the big banks and winning. Turns out that armed with persistence, and a little legal know-how, Davids can take down Goliaths.

  35. Beyond Thunderdome says:

    The SEC is an absolute F’ing joke. Absolute blockbuster.

    The family of the top lawyer at the Securities and Exchange Commission invested with Bernie Madoff and earned more than $1.5 million in ill-gained profits, according to trustee Irving Picard, who has named the lawyer, David M. Becker, as a defendant in a clawback lawsuit, a Daily News investigation has found.

  36. jamil says:

    “Home prices in the New York metropolitan area are at their lowest point in four years, despite improvements elsewhere in the economy”

    Improvements elsewhere?? Yeah, if you are fat-cat lobbyist or public union parasite with automatic raises, it has been great.

  37. grim says:

    Which one of these four doesn’t belong? Which one of these four isn’t like the others?

    From the Record:

    Home prices continue decline

    “We ended 2010 with a weak report. … Despite improvements in the overall economy, housing continues to drift lower and weaker.”

    — David Blitzer, chairman of the Index Committee at Standard & Poor’s.

    “We expect house prices to drop at least another 5 percent and then turn around by mid-2011. … Although the headline statistics are daunting … most cities appear to be coasting towards a bottom. And in a few cities, such as San Francisco, Washington, D.C., and San Diego where prices have risen 15 percent, 12 percent and 10 percent, respectively, since hitting a cyclical low, prices are recovering.”

    — Patrick Newport, IHS Global Insight

    “My intuition rates the probability of another 15-, 20- even 25-percent real home price decline as substantial. That’s not a forecast, but it’s a substantial risk.”

    — Robert Shiller, professor of economics, Yale University

    “We’ve been very busy the last six weeks, despite the snow. … The prices did get softer in the fall … [but] it’s looking a little brighter now.”

    — Randy Douglass, broker and owner of ERA Douglass Realtors in Montvale.

  38. grim says:

    From the APP:

    Layoffs to begin at Fort Monmouth in March

    With Fort Monmouth slated to close by mid-September, three companies with contracts at the Army post have notified the state that they plan to lay off a total of 525 workers beginning next month.

    The contractors include L-3 Services Inc., CTSC LLC, and TECOM-Vinnell Services. And they bring home layoffs that have been anticipated since the federal government decided in 2005 to close the fort.

    “It’s sad,” said Gary Ramsey, facilities manager at TECOM-Vinnell, which helps to maintain the fort’s buildings and grounds. “People have been here a long time.”

    The region is losing an economic juggernaut. The fort has employed 5,000 workers, supported another 22,000 jobs and generated $3.2 billion a year for New Jersey.

  39. Mikeinwaiting says:

    It’s all good futures up for US markets, even are friends in Italy are in the green after closing yesterday. Ben and the rest of the central bankers got this under control, till they don’t. This will work out well.

  40. stan says:

    Essex- take some time off- you appear to be unhinged.

  41. stan says:

    Also, I find this blog to be very insightful, on many levels.

    If you are offended, it means some of the commentary hits close to home. Nothing wrong with that, but that’s why you are getting upset

  42. Mike says:

    Oiled the old Shwinn up last night. Getting ready for $5.00 a gallon

  43. Mikeinwaiting says:

    Grim 36 the used house salesmen. Ding ding! Then again I do not agree with the guy from Global about a mid 11 turn around, we are “coasting towards a bottom.” Now that’s a new one on the constant bottom calls over the last few years. Very nice, implies downward action but in the gentile act of coasting.

  44. Mikeinwaiting says:

    Essex going off the hook again, did this a few months ago went at it hard with some posters here. Loves the public unions hates the military interesting.
    To give my take in some ways I agree you kill all the unions and it does get harder in the private sector. They did set the standard for pay , hours etc. That party is over however. Now those folks are f**ked along with the rest of us as we compete with lower wages abroad, pricing pressure, and outsourcing. The USA is on the decline our standard of living will decline, yes that means public employees too, sorry Essex. We all can not get up to the level of bennies & pension they have and we pay them. That is not how it works we pay you, you get what we get.

  45. NJ Toast says:

    A conservative view on Detroit’s demise to include commentary on union labor.

  46. 30 year realtor says:

    #36 – Shame on Randy Douglass! My office is like a morgue. Never experienced a Spring market this slow in all my years in the business.

    Tom Hopkins, the original real estate sales training guru used to say; No matter if the market is up or down, when asked how the market is always answer UNBELIEVEABLE! Then you will always be telling the truth.

  47. freedy says:

    dead pool on spring selling season please?

  48. jamil says:


    “Back in the 1970s my daughters used to say: “Let’s play princesses!” and a grand old time they had. I imagine that in progressive families, the cry was different. “Let’s play community organizers!” No doubt a grand old time was had by the baby radicals too.

    The trouble is that some people don’t grow up. It’s one thing to play community organizers in the back yard when you are a kid. It’s another thing when real lives are at stake, as in Wisconsin.

    A better name for “community organizer” is “radical suit,” because community organizers are really the lefty version of the corporate suits that fly in to the plant in their executive jets, issue just enough ridiculous orders to prove that they haven’t a clue, and then head back to the FBO and the next gig. “

  49. Essex says:

    If you cannot see that the ‘military’ or at least the two unfunded and certainly un-won wars have helped, more than anything else, to bankrupt the country, you are dumber than I thought.

  50. Essex says:

    Yet, for some reason, you carry on, day after day, about how teachers are to blame for our economic mess, you are truly, truly stupid. Stupidity that runs do deep into your DNA — good luck guys. I’ll be fine.

  51. Neanderthal Economist says:

    36 shiller is the only talking head I would ever even pretend to listen to. If he is saying risk of another 20% drop its because he sees something. Probably much higher mortgage rates if I had to guess.

  52. Neanderthal Economist says:

    49 nobody blames teachers and cops, its the unions. Al is the only psychopath who wants to see teachers sprayed with water but he has a few screws loose. Obviously.

  53. Essex says:

    Just caught Christie on Morning Joe. The guy is smooth. He sounded reasonable and spoke about the union’s reluctance to ‘give’. Interesting. FWIW the breakdown in our home is about 1/5 of the income comes from public service the other 4/5’s are private sector funded. Do the math. We are squarely in the top 1%. Of course many of Christie’s programs would benefit our family, yet I cannot stomach unfairness and disconnections in logic that seem to define our current culture.

  54. freedy says:

    the teachers/cops/fire want the last drop of blood from the NJ taxpayers.

  55. Essex says:

    Shaddup Freedy —

  56. Comrade Nom Deplume says:


    Nice observations, but I gotta take some issue:

    Clot abusing Moose? That presumes insult=argument. Does clot insult better? Sure. But that doesn’t mean I agree with him (though as of late, he makes more sense. Scary).

    Essex is certainly more angry, and curiously so, but I find that ignoring the bile, uninformed or not, is the better course. Especially since there appears to be some drift in his position that bespeaks some level of rationality not seen in your average troll. Doesn’t mean I think he is drifting in the right direction though; only that he appears to be more conflicted than previously.

  57. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [52] essex

    “I cannot stomach unfairness and disconnections in logic that seem to define our current culture.”

    Then you are in for a lot of pain with no cure in sight. This is where listening to Clot is (paradoxically) healthy. Embrace the oblivion, or at least accept that there is no order in the universe, only chaos, and what passes for order is ethereal and fleeting, much like a Pax Americana or Rue Britannia.

  58. Essex says:

    56. Amen. I hear ya.

  59. Kettle1 says:


    You dont make money in running a war by winning in short order! The money is made by dragging out the war as long as possible and making the outcome as hazy as possible. I thing Eisenhower had a few things to say about the effects of a military industrial complex.
    Wining a war when you have the larger and more advanced tech is not all that difficult most of the time, you just have to be willing to commit to Total War, which the US hasnt even come close to doing since WWII. Besides Total War doesn’t isnt very palatable to the general public when its televised in virtual real time.

  60. Tom says:

    Anybody know why the condo values are holding up relative to the house values? The condo areas – Manhattan, Hoboken – have some of the worst affordability metrics in the US, which should’ve meant they would suffer steepest decline.

    Condo correction appears mild compared to houses in New York metro, and very mild versus broader US housing market. And nothing compared to what happened to condos in 1980s.

  61. Kettle1 says:


    from the other day; I have a few weeks left before i go off line for a while.

  62. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [60] kettle

    Offline for awhile? if you tell me where you are going, do you have to kill me?

  63. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [56] redux

    S/b Rule Britannia. Channeling too much Rocky and Bullwinkle.

  64. Neanderthal Economist says:

    We are stabilizing region in mideast, its barely war, more like occupation. Lo and behold we find out that afghanistan has abundant precious metals, not to mention petroleum and natural resource gold mine in the whole region, plus strategically located next to iran. But according to essex logic it was a waste of money and we should have allowed chinese and muslim clerics to seize it first?

  65. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [28] Al

    Considering Providence’s proximity to Foxborough, MA, I found this hilarious.

    “in a letter sent out to all teachers Tuesday, Supt. Tom Brady wrote that on Thursday the Providence School Board will vote on a resolution to dismiss every teacher,”

    Boy, Tom Terrific sure gets around.

  66. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [25] Essex,

    Then perhaps we should both move back to Mass. and lower the average IQ of both states.

  67. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [58] kettle

    Do you, as a student of history, find it ironic that by today’s standards, Eisenhower would probably be a democrat, and Kennedy would probably be a Republican?

  68. jamil says:

    ” Public unions have been a 50-year mistake

    A crucial distinction has been lost in the debate over Walker’s proposals: Government unions are not the same thing as private-sector unions.

    Traditional, private-sector unions were born out of an often-bloody adversarial relationship between labor and management. It’s been said that during World War I, U.S. soldiers had better odds of surviving on the front lines than miners did in West Virginia coal mines. Mine disasters were frequent; hazardous conditions were the norm. In 1907, the Monongah mine explosion claimed the lives of 362 West Virginia miners. Day-to-day life often resembled serfdom, with management controlling vast swaths of the miners’ lives. Before unionization and many New Deal–era reforms, Washington had little power to reform conditions by legislation.
    Government unions have no such narrative on their side. Do you recall the Great DMV Cave-in of 1959? How about the travails of second-grade teachers recounted in Upton Sinclair’s famous schoolhouse sequel to The Jungle? No? Don’t feel bad, because no such horror stories exist.

    Government workers were making good salaries in 1962 when President Kennedy lifted, by executive order (so much for democracy), the federal ban on government unions. Civil-service regulations and similar laws had guaranteed good working conditions for generations.

    The argument for public unionization wasn’t moral, economic, or intellectual. It was rankly political..

    Private-sector unions fight with management over an equitable distribution of profits. Government unions negotiate with friendly politicians over taxpayer money, putting the public interest at odds with union interests, and, as we’ve seen in states such as California and Wisconsin, exploding the cost of government. California’s pension costs soared 2,000 percent in a decade thanks to the unions.”

  69. Painhrtz says:

    Nom by today’s definitions the republican standard bearer Lincoln would be a dyed in the wool democrat

  70. Xroads says:

    I see everyone is blaming unions. It seems we are forgetting the pols who they negotiate with who we the people voted into office.

  71. Comrade Nom Deplume says:


    I believe that I, among others, theorized some time back that things like this would occur. A product of both the fiscal fallout and Dodd-Frank.

  72. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [68] pain

    An interesting hypothesis. I think it would make a great discussion on PBS.

  73. JJ says:

    EJ buy a time travel machine and buy all my bond picks I listed from December 2008 to April 2009.

    401k advice is difficult as you are limited in choices that are in your plan, even IRA advice is limted as investments amounts are limited and since it is tax free growth only certain investments make sense. For those it is about investing the max and and keeping your allocation model to one that suits you.

    Now taxable account retirement money that is where the fun is. Munis are still on sale, I bought a 6% NYS AMT free muni this morning at 98. Good deal, However, that requires a lot of work. I move between common stock, pref stock, junk, investment grade and muni bonds. If you don’t like spending an hour a day or more researching and tracking your portfolio a few times a day then this approch won’t work. In that case just do a simple bond ladder and find some good funds. Try to avoid bond funds. Yields are so low you don’t need a bond manager also taking a cut.

    EJ says:
    February 22, 2011 at 10:55 pm

    I’ve been lurking on this site since 2005. Seems like the advice has been spot on. I have been fortunate to find a house to rent in central jersery for 1300 or so. The plan is to wait out the storm before buying (if ever). I would appreciate similar guidance with regards to retirement, savings, and 401k. Just wondering if there is site that offers similar (no bs) insight?

  74. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [69] xroads

    Ultimately, it is the electorate that is to blame. We keep putting the enablers back into office. It’s like the farmer interviewing guard dogs, then hiring the fox to guard the henhouse.

  75. MikeNJ says:

    Grim and Captain Cheapo,

    Long time lurker here. I used the NJ Home Performance with Energy Star Plan this past summer. Basically they come and test your house with a blower door test (draft). They then come up with a bunch of improvements that hopefully add up to at least 25% gas savings. The blower door test is subsidized ($125 I think) which you get back if you move forward with the plan. You get a detailed report from the contractor on all the spots that need improvement in your house. IMO well worth the $125 either way. The plan as of this summer was this, spend up to $20K in improvements (Gas Furnace, Hot water hater, insulation, etc) and get rebated up to 50% or $10K. I had about $8K in a high efficiency furnace and hot water heater- all direct vent outside my house (no chimney). The other $6000 was spent on insulation all over the house (basement, attic, crawl space, etc). Did I end up paying the contractor 100 cents on his undiscounted dollar though. However I did get 50% of the total cost rebated back to me plus $1500 in “free” insulation work. You do lose the ability to deal with the contractor as they basically know you are getting this stuff at a massive discount. My guy had zero incentive to deal on price. Here are the results, for ~$6200 I received approximately $14K in improvements. New Carrier high efficiency furnace, new humidifier (did not have one), new air cleaner, new direct vented hot water heater, insulation all over my basement, den crawl space and attic. Could I have dealt straight up on price and gotten all of this for ~11K, probably. However with this plan I only paid $6200 and get this, the $6200 is in a state sponsored zero interest loan for 10 years!

    The results – > my heating bills are approximately 15% lower since the upgrade. The improvement in livability during this past winter has been amazing, I no longer hear the heat come on and the house instantly warms up. The humidifier also works wonders. For the $50 a month it costs me I am beyond satisfied.

    The down side is that I think the plan was so popular they lowered the rebate amounts. I was one of the last to have the chance to get the full $10K rebate. Either way check it out as the $125 home energy audit is still worth every penny even if you had to pay for it in the end.

  76. Xroads says:

    I think we’re only interviewing foxes

  77. Painhrtz says:

    Mike enlighten me on the state sponsored zero loan, thinking of going geothermal. would like to know if I can use government funny money to finance it.

  78. 30 year (45)-

    Some of my competing brokers have taken to calling people working in the office, brewing coffee, going on caravan, sitting endless open houses (that no one attends) and getting buyer prospects pre-approved “activity”.

    The one thing that none of these offices has is sales.

  79. d2b says:

    Nom 73-
    I’ve always marveled at our overall dislike for Congress but our willingness re-elect the same people repeatedly. Congressional approval rates are in the 20s and relectetion rates are probably triple that.

    Local politicians are playing with house money when it comes to labor negotiations. One other problem with local governments is that it seems like everybody that draws a paycheck from the city is on the same side. No previous govenor ever really represented the people in negotations.

    Essex, if 4/5 of your income comes from the private sector you are very familiar with cost cutting measures that businesses need to do to surrive. There are a lot of very good people on the street right now. Do you see the need to cut governmental costs and how would you do it?

  80. freedy (46)-

    If you had Spring Market ’11 DOA in your deadpool, you should’ve collected three weeks ago.

    Nothing left now but the stench of death, the rotting corpse and the tears of thousands of agents who will soon be fitted for orange or blue smocks.

  81. sx (49)-

    The teachers are not responsible. Their extortionate, criminal enterprise unions are.

  82. hughesrep says:


    NJNG gave me $900 to do my home enerygy audit after I installed a new gas furnace. Guy came out and basically did the same thing. Mailed me a check two weeks later.

    I think I got a $600 rebate back from the state, and a $1500 tax credit from the feds in ’09 for a new furnace / AC. Maybe another $150 from PSE&G for the AC.

    I bought the furnace and AC myself, I sell them wholesale, for about $2K, threw another $500 at one of my contractors to do the install off the books.

    I also got $3500 kicked back to me at closing after I had the furnace inspected and basically condemned for a leaky heat exchanger.

    I got a new furnace and AC, and came out with an extra $4K cash. Only downside is I have no real recourse for a labor bill if something breaks under warranty. I’m OK with that for $4K.

  83. plume (56)-

    The events of the past few weeks are just the warmup for the main act. I’m still itching to pull out the deck chair, blender and fruity drink recipe when the water cannons and rubber bullets get going.

    As Dr. Thompson used to say, when the going gets weird, the weird turn pro. I feel like Lenny Bias on draft day.

  84. ket (58)-

    Yeah, but a bunch of Libyans catching head shots can get 8mm hits on YouTube.

    “Besides Total War doesn’t isnt very palatable to the general public when its televised in virtual real time.”

  85. Kettle1 says:

    Nom, Pain

    I agree on both counts. The political spectrum has shifted to extremes, although not surprising given the socioeconomics that have developed over the last several decades.
    Eisenhower wouldnt even be accepted in the modern day democratic party.


    I already told where i am going at the brewing GTG

  86. Kettle1 says:


    Might i suggest one of these for your roadside viewing pleasure?

    Better then catching a stray round

  87. plume (70)-

    When the bank runs come, it will be so much more tasteful if they happen in the suburbs.

    They will play well on the news, too…sort of like people standing in line to buy the latest piece of iShit.

  88. ket (85)-

    Can I get a discount on one of those if I buy it as a package with a truncheon included?

    I predict the truncheon is about to become the US’ #1 personnel management tool.

  89. MikeNJ says:


    Check out the program at

    There are lots of options and not all require 25% savings. You can also get a list of contractors that will all happily guide you through the process as they will hope they get your business.

    Good luck and the money is out there.

  90. Painhrtz says:

    Hey Ket I have been meaning to ask, do you reload your own rounds? That is a GTG I would go to. I need to learn as 7mm sniper err hunting rounds are getting a little expensive to shoot almost 40 bucks a box for high end. Would like to do my own shot shells also but I hear it is a pain in the a$$.

  91. Xroads says:

    Could it be that when housing was on it’s way up people didn’t mind giving public workers big raises that amounted to peanuts comared with what they were gaining in equity? Mere bag of shells

  92. Ben says:

    the teachers/cops/fire want the last drop of blood from the NJ taxpayers.

    Actually, I just want a job. I don’t want a pension and I don’t want the union garnishing my wage. Most young teachers feel the same way. Yet, they were the ones cut last year and they’ll also be the first ones cut this year.

  93. Libtard In the City says:

    74. MikeinNJ:

    I am familiar with the program and considered doing it myself on my multi. Unfortunately, between 30 original windows, the fact that there is absolutely no insulation behind the plaster throughout the house, we have steam heat(yeah…check out what an efficient steam boiler costs) and the fact that 2 tenants will be paying the energy bills, it just didn’t make sense and I doubt I would have obtained any return on the investment.

    Now the new home has original windows and a steam heat furnace, but it is insulated and there are few leaks. I know this as that mad-thorough inspector ChiFi recommended did a thermal scan of the house which revealed very few cold spots. Will look into doing one of these energy audits once our new kitchen is finished.

    By the way, if any of you need a kitchen outfit with absolutely stunningly low prices, we found one in Perth Amboy that is a true model of ingenuity. They have like 18 kitchens displayed and they won’t meet with you unless you have a mechanical layout in hand. Then you peruse the displays and find a cabinet style and color. Then you sit down in a cafeteria like room where there must be 12 desks each with a kitchen designer that does not work on commission. We went to four other places and this place was at least 30% cheaper than our next lowest price for the same kitchen (same manufacturer). If you know what you want, this place rocks. If you don’t have a clue, got to 3 or 4 other places and let them come up with options and educate you. Then go to Perth Amboy. I’m keeping careful track of every penny we plan to spend on our kitchen and will probably assemble a Captain Cheapo guide to doing a kitchen when I am done.

    I also checked out Millhurst Trading. What a friggin dump, although, I’ll probably go there to buy trim and moldings. If you need to do construction on a section 8 apartment, I would highly recommend it. But it’s all Chinese junk (cheap as hell though).

  94. Kettle1 says:

    Pain 90


    Its on my short list of skills to learn in the near future.

  95. Xroads says:

    Pse&g, Njng

    Greedy unions?

  96. Doyle says:

    Stu: what’s the kitchen place in PA?

  97. d2b says:

    Hey tech people,
    Talk to me about tracing IP addresses. Is it possible for someone logging into a website to track the information of other posters? I do not mean the host, I’m more interested to know if other users can. Our local paper has a message board and I want to remain anonymous since I own a business and it is my living.

  98. Libtard In the City says:

    And I forgot to mention. They are located in an urban enterprise zone, so 3.5% sales tax and they ship free to the worksite. The only negative we’ve found so far is they have an 8-week lead time.

  99. Al Mossberg says:

    I became a hater of unions when at a local school board meeting a concerned tax payer stood up to complain about his property taxes and the school budget. The school budget had been overwhelmingly shot down at the ballot box. One of the members of the board told the man, “If you dont like it. Move.”

    That level of arrogance is not ignorable. They are now reaping whated they sowed.

  100. jamil says:

    97, yes, in fact I can see your IP address and hence know home address right now. Nice pajamas you have there.

    no, it’s not possible for other than host and the IT-dept of theirs (and your ISP), unless site itself publicly exposes IP addresses (some do).

  101. Painhrtz says:

    Ket damn, I’m going to have to get a lesson from my BIL next time I’m in North Carolina.

    Lib awesome while we have great looking cabinets the layout is awful. I want to redo our whole kitchen. floor suks, poor layout more open concept

  102. chicagofinance says:

    Cornell University Viticulture and Enology Experience
    July 17-22, 2011

  103. jamil says:

    84 kettle: “I agree on both counts. The political spectrum has shifted to extremes, although not surprising given the socioeconomics that have developed over the last several decades.
    Eisenhower wouldnt even be accepted in the modern day democratic party.”

    Wow. First, Eisenhower was not a democrat. He was a republican. He stopped New Deal crap and loved his country, and surely would not be accepted in the modern day democratic country. (btw, nor would JFK or even FDR who rejected the idea of public unions).

    Also, are you seriously saying that e.g. tea parties are extreme since they want to cut spending (since we are broke) and follow that pesky US constitution ?

  104. Al Mossberg says:


    Silver got raided last night and fought it off.

    “open interest for the front month of March saw only a marginal decrease
    from 53,125 to 50,888 for a loss of only 2277 contracts.”

    5 days left.

  105. Al Mossberg says:

    Look at this little barn burner. High Ho SILVER!

  106. Libtard In the City says:

    Teabaggers love this country. Then again, so do member of the Klan.

  107. jamil says:

    107, Senator Byrd (third on line to succeed President) died last year. Let it go.
    Anyway, se-x-ual trash talk is so mature. How dare people propose not spending more than we have?

  108. Juice Box says:

    re: #101 – Jamil all you need to do is create and post here via a link a properly crafted URL and have the user click on it to determine their IP address. It’s probably been done dozens of times here to determine where everyone is. From there a nice quick complaint to Homeland Security and wallah a quick trip to Gitmo. Also don’t think for a second Grim won’t squeal when the fuzz shows up at his door to get his server logs.

  109. Libtard In the City says:

    The fuzz? Do you drive a truck Juice?

  110. jamil says:

    108, yes, but then you would have to actually do something (click strange link) and still it could be anybody who reads the site (any lurker).

  111. Al Mossberg says:

    Andrew Maguire is now offering a real time metals trading subscription service. Nom, this is right up your alley. “If posted trades in any month result in a loss then membership fees for that month will be refunded. I believe that there are no services that provide such an iron clad guarantee. Andrew is a truly exceptional trader and we are showing our confidence in him and his methods by providing this guarantee.”

    Launching March 1st, the service will provide members with real-time calls made by Maguire through an encrypted, secure web site supported by configurable alerts via email and text messaging. ”

    I cant think of a better guy to get trading advice from. He demonstrated to the CFTC exactly how and when JP Morgan will raid in real time.

  112. Al Mossberg says:



    Ill just blame it on my wife.

  113. Anon E. Moose says:

    BBH [12];

    What fever-soaked hallucination put the idea in your head that I give a sh!t what you think of me any more than what some two-bit ripple huckster (and former used house flack) does? Speaking of SSRI [23], like Clot/Debt/Sr. Psychopath, you’ve clearly gone off your meds. Whatever you imagine my position is is really irrelevant.

    If Clot has anything more than me it’s his internet-enabled faux sociopathy that he exhibits with abandon. Like a Roman Plebe, you’re here at the collesuem for the proverbial bread and circus. You seem disappointed, but like I said earlier, I really couldn’t care.

  114. JJ says:

    ESPN by way of its Sportscenter Twitter account has confirmed that the New Jersey Nets are in talks to acquire Deron Williams from the Utah Jazz in a three-team trade

  115. Lone Ranger says:

    Al (111),

    Suppose I take his advice and trade 20 futures contracts. Silver then goes against me, $1. That’s a 100K loss. He’ll reimburse me $500? Sounds like I’ll be kicking Tonto in the ass.

  116. Al Mossberg says:

    Looks like the Unions are about to get violent.

    “A Democratic Congressman from Massachusetts is raising the stakes in the nation’s fight over the future of public employee unions, saying emails aren’t enough to show support and that it is time to “get a little bloody.”

    “I’m proud to be here with people who understand that it’s more than just sending an email to get you going. Every once and awhile you need to get out on the streets and get a little bloody when necessary,” Rep. Mike Capuano (D-Ma.) told a crowd in Boston on Tuesday rallying in solidarity for Wisconsin union members. ”

  117. Juice Box says:

    if you are going to fight don’t hold back please. You are anonymous so no
    need to pull punches.

  118. Al Mossberg says:



    Obviously not for guys like you. Its for guys like me that want to trade around the sides of core positions.

  119. Kettle1 says:


    if you’re concerned then use a proxy service when posting, there are both free and paid services.

  120. nwnj says:

    One thing I do think Essex is right about is the capital gains tax. 15% is absurdly low.

    Push that back up to at least the income tax rate and let Wall St paper pushers share the pain. Do that and start raising and then Fed interest rate. Take away the Wall St punch bowl.

    Two of the most obvious inequities in the economy right now.

  121. Kettle1 says:


    if you use firefox, there are add-ons that will do 90% of the work for you, you just have to input the IP address of your proxy.

  122. Kettle1 says:

    Lone Ranger

    With Libyan oil going offline, how many of those oil tankers anchored at sea as floating storage are going up for bid????

  123. Painhrtz says:

    Al return to civility? Can’t have the base get trounced on by common sense and sacrifice that would be un American. ;)

  124. NJGator says:

    Lib 92 – The PA folks actually came in 30% lower for an even better kitchen than our local quotes.

    Doyle – If you’re going to go, I recommend calling for an appointment. We waited over an hour when we came in on a holiday. It was totally worth it though. The designer was super effiicient, made suggestions when he thought we were off base (and even took us to the actual displays so we would have a visual of what he wanted us to see) and there was no upselling pressure on anything. If we need to make any changes, we can work with anyone on staff because it won’t screw him out of a commission.

  125. d2b says:

    Al Moss-
    What prevents these services from taking the other sides of the trade or making recommendations feed their adgenda. Do they have enough power to move the market? Sometime I think that it is the true purpose of places like

  126. Kettle1 says:

    From zero hedge

    Video Of Burning Greek Policeman As Class Warfare Escalates – Protesters Scream “Don’t Obey The Rich—Fight Back”

  127. Confused In NJ says:

    Feb. 23 (Bloomberg) — U.S. Treasury Secretary Timothy F. Geithner said the economic recovery has put the world on a better footing to withstand the increase in oil prices caused by turmoil in the Middle East.

    “The economy is in a much stronger position to handle” rising oil prices, Geithner said today during a Bloomberg Breakfast in Washington. “Central banks have a lot of experience in managing these things.”

    Sounds like if the peasants have No Bread, let them Eat Cake!

  128. Doyle says:


    Thanks Gator, will do.

  129. JJ says:

    BTW airfare set to rise due to oil, if you are booking a flight in next few weeks anyhow might make sense to lock it in!

  130. JJ says:

    Funny I was just thinking I bid on one or two mcmansions owned by older folks holding on for top dollar. Wonder if they regret now taking my low ball offer when they get their heating bills on those 4,000 square foot houses.

  131. chicagofinance says:

    Chicago Economist’s `Crazy’ Education Idea Wins Ken Griffin’s Backing

    List says that his experiments will give policy makers, executives and investors much greater certainty about why students, donors and shoppers make the decisions they do.

    Squatting on a toddler’s chair in one of the classrooms in the Griffin school, List sketches out the design of the experiment with a magic marker on an easel. Local families with kids 3 to 5 years old were encouraged to enter a lottery and were randomly sorted into three groups.

    Students selected to attend the Griffin school are enrolled in the free, all-day preschool. Children in another group aren’t enrolled in the school, while their guardians take courses at a “parenting academy” and receive cash or scholarships valued at up to $7,000 annually as a reward.

  132. Kettle1 says:

    More MERS fun

    Essex South Register of Deeds John O’Brien announced today that he will be seeking over $22 million dollars from the Mortgage Electronic Registration System, “MERS” which represents several major banking conglomerates. O’Brien bases the $22M number on the fact that the Salem registry has recorded over 148,663 MERS mortgages since 1998. After a careful review of a number of these mortgages O’Brien said it became very clear to him that MERS had assigned mortgages to other entities at least twice without paying a recording fee. Based on this information the taxpayers have been defrauded out of $22,299,450 in Southern Essex County alone. It is quite possible that in some cases they may have assigned the notes more than twice resulting in even greater loss of revenue. O’Brien called MERS “one of the greediest schemes ever perpetrated on the American people. They have compromised the integrity of the public land recordation system and in doing so, have wreaked havoc on our economy”.

  133. jamil says:

    kettle 126: this is going in here too, and note, that about 100% of it comes from the Left.

    NYT today: “It has been two and a half years since an arsonist tossed a firebomb into the governor’s mansion in Austin and slipped into the night, but the Texas Rangers say they are finally closing in on the person responsible. Steven C. McCraw, the head of the Department of Public Safety, said on Friday that investigators had linked the arsonist to a group of anarchists known as Austin Affinity. He said two members of the same group had pleaded guilty to making and possessing gasoline bombs during the 2008 Republican National Convention”

  134. NJGator says:

    Doyle 128 – This was also the only place we went to that actually gave us the drawings of the design and a quote on paper before we handed over a check. None of the other places would give us anything that would enable us to shop their quotes around.

  135. Painhrtz says:

    Ket quote of the year from teh zero hedge comments section

    I live in liberal Austin, and if someone lit a cop on fire, the rest would start clubbing protesters to death like baby seals with an expiration date.

  136. Doyle says:


    And I’m assuming the cabinet quality is good, and these are reputable brands? I have not started the process just yet but will be gutting a kitchen in the very near future.

  137. DL says:

    The military hasn’t lost a war. We are very good at closing on and destroying an enemy, whether it be an opposing formation or a country. We lose the peace however, when our political masters from both parties insist we use the military to create nation-states where none have ever existed.

  138. hughesrep says:

    Wisconsin Gov. talks to a radio guy claiming to be one of the Koch brothers.

    Sounds like a guy talking to his boss. I’m suprised he didn’t offer to walk his dog.

  139. Libtard In the City says:

    Doyle…there are really only three cabinet manufacturers if you don’t go custom.

    Masco – Makes a lower and middle level. I think they manufacture under 12 names or so. Decorra, Kraftmaid, Ultracraft, Cardell, etc.

    Masterbrand – Omega, Dynasty, etc.

    Chinese krap – Anything that ships flat (good for section 8 housing where it will get destroyed anyway).

    The big differences are particle board vs. plywood vs. solid wood. Also, the quality of the wood and the number of colors, styles, finishes, cabinet options, etc.

    In the end, the cheapest will probably hold up just as well as the best if you don’t abuse it. The entry level stuff looks kind of cheap (veneers). The midlevel has particle shelves with a vinyl covering (which is fine). The best stuff is all wood, but looks pretty much the same as the mid-level. Then there’s frame vs. frameless, which is a matter of preference really, although the salespeople will tell you that framed is stronger. When was the last time you saw a kitchen cabinet collapse or warp? In my experience, plywood warps way more easily than particle board, which is fine as long as the surface is waterproofed.

    Good luck and ask me if you have any questions.

  140. Doyle says:


    Very helpful Stu, and I will… thanks.

  141. Libtard In the City says:

    Oh, yeah. There’s Ikea too. Very modern looking and very cheap. Judging by the majority of balsa-wood strength particle board they’ve sold me in the past, I wouldn’t spend upwards of 5K on any of their kitchens. Of course, if you plan to design a kitchen that is that contemporary, then it will only need to last 5 years before you need to replace your cabinets again to keep up with the neighbors.

  142. grim says:

    Merrilat Masterpiece (also a Masco company) are very nice. As are Dura Supreme if you are looking for semi-custom.

    Don’t be fooled into thinking custom cabinets from these lines are any better. The major differences are really size selections, some finish options, and some additional detail options. In almost all cases, the frames, drawers, doors are identical. If you don’t need custom sizing, and are flexible on fit, you can save a bundle by going to stock sizing.

  143. Libtard In the City says:

    You are correct Grim. We went with UltraCraft since it’s pricing well now and doesn’t look cheap. Went with a cheaper door/drawer style (no raised panel) and stain with no glaze to keep costs down. UltraCraft will actually change depths and widths at no charge (for now).

  144. hoodafa says:

    New Jersey Has Highest Combined U.S. Tax Burden, Study Says

    New Jersey residents have the highest state and local tax burden in the nation, a Tax Foundation study said today.

    They paid 12.2 percent of their incomes in state and local taxes in the fiscal year ended June 30, 2009. New York and Connecticut, the second- and third-highest-burdened states, gave up 12.1 percent and 12 percent, respectively. Alaskans paid the least, at 6.3 percent.

    More at:

  145. Sepp says:

    Interesting banter about mopeds here yesterday on NJRE Report and with the price
    oil breaking through the $100 barrel threshold today, serious discussion about switch to 2 wheeled transportation is very timely. In my opinion, moped law in NJ is somewhat dated and does not reflect realities of marketplace for these types of vehicles. To qualify as a moped in New Jersey, this vehicle must have pedals, have engine displacement of less than 50 cc, and have top speed of no more than 25 mph. Only the Slovenian–made Tomos brand currently meets those criteria and it is offered for sale by dealers here in New Jersey. The main market for them currently are 15 , 16, 17 year olds who can apply for special moped license at age 15 – registration and insurance are needed -but you do not need to have a motorcycle or regular drivers license. Although there are many brands of scooters that are 49cc, but they could not be registered as mopeds since they do not feature pedals.

    As for the Tomos, kids who buy them usually modify them to go faster by doing things like changing to bi-turbo exhaust, upgrading to 70cc engine, changing sprocket, etc-all to boost speed. This is probably a very smart thing to do since who wants to drive any road in NJ with top speed of just 25 mph.?

    The heyday of the euro-style step through frame moped was really the late seventies to mid-eighties coming on the heels of the last major oil crisis and recession. Back than you were more likely to see models from Peugeot, Puch, General et. al. along with curiosities like the Honda Express or Yamaha QT- which were not technically mopeds (lacking pedals) but did they did have the step-through frame style.

    As the peak oil apocalypse descends, I think the average adult in NJ would probably not consider actual moped for alternative transportation but would go for a scooter with engine size of 70cc-150cc if fuel economy is primary consideration. Better still in my mind would be to go for something that also has some serious off-road capability as well, since who knows what condition of roads will become with oil scarce and no money to pay for maintaining them. The legendary Yamaha TW200 is a nice little thumper for that purpose and is a relative fuel miser that can squeeze out 75-85 mpg and besides- it is one cool looking ride.

  146. make money says:

    In a cafe near the Seattle-Tacoma International Airport, a small piece of retribution is being dealt back to the TSA. “We have posted signs on our doors basically saying that they aren’t allowed to come into our business,” an employee tells travel journalist Christopher Elliott, adding that her boss travels a lot and often recognizes TSA agents. If he sees one in the café, located near the airport, “we turn our backs and completely ignore them, and tell them to leave,” she says. “Their kind aren’t welcomed in our establishment.”

  147. Kettle1 says:


    Is Bruce Willis doing a sequel to Armageddon????

  148. Doyle says:

    Grim-Stu, I just keep copying/pasting these posts and e-mailing them to my wife. Hopefully you guys will help keep the cost of this kitchen reno under control.

    Do you have to know what appliances you will be going with when working out the cabinets, or do you decide on those based on the cabinets?

  149. 30 year realtor says:

    #132 – MERS/ That was great! Pass the popcorn. Gonna be a great show!

  150. chicagofinance says:

    FEBRUARY 19, 2011
    Buying Your Way Into College

    By JANE J. KIM

    Forget the standard advice that everyone should apply for financial aid. This year, forgoing aid applications may actually boost the chances of getting accepted.

    Thanks to the recent recession, more colleges are giving seats to wealthier students—especially international or wait-listed applicants—who are willing to pay full freight. Last fall, Williams College began admitting more international students who could pay full tuition, and will reintroduce loans into its financial-aid packages this year. Middlebury College and Wake Forest University began looking at wait-listed students’ financial status as a factor in admissions last year. And Tufts University, which was able to admit all students on a “need-blind” basis—where they pledge to admit students regardless of their ability to pay—in 2007 and 2008, has reverted to being “need-aware” for some applicants—meaning that it takes an applicant’s financial status into account.

    At the same time, some elite schools, including Stanford University, Yale University and Dartmouth College, that still have need-blind admissions policies in place for all U.S. students, are adjusting their aid formulas in ways that are raising costs for families with higher incomes.

    In the years leading up to the financial crisis, private colleges—many of which hold need-blind policies—expanded their aid budgets to attract a more-diverse student body. Some schools dropped loans from aid packages in favor of grants and work-study programs, while others expanded their need-blind policies to more students, such as foreign applicants.

    Battered Endowments

    But with college endowments not yet fully recovered from the recession and a greater number of needier students, many schools are starting to rein in their generosity. The top students still will be heavily recruited, experts say, but as schools face greater financial strains, borderline applicants with fatter wallets stand a better chance of getting in.

    Mark Kantrowitz, founder of, a financial-aid Web site, estimates that about 5% of the application pool may increase their chances of being admitted by not applying for aid—with international and wait-listed students seeing the greatest benefit. If the school does practice need-blind admissions, he says, ask if that policy also applies to international or wait-listed students.

    The schools, for their part, say they aren’t lowering admissions standards. Middlebury, which is need-blind for U.S. students, says it will make its first-round decisions for all applicants based on merit alone. If the school is within budget, then it will leave those decisions alone. If not, then it may consider the financial status of wait-list, transfer and international applications, says Robert Clagett, dean of admissions at Middlebury. “Being need-aware usually only influences those decisions at the margins,” he says. “It depends on what resources are left.”

    Many schools begin by admitting part of the class without regard to the ability to pay, but start to consider it when the financial-aid budget runs thin. For the first time since 2005, the University of Rochester doesn’t expect it will be completely need-blind when it comes time to admitting students off the wait list this year. “This year, we had a bigger early decision group and a slightly needier one,” says Jonathan Burdick, dean of admissions and financial aid. “I’m certain we will be 95% need-blind. That last 5% is in jeopardy.”

    Schools also are tinkering with their aid formulas in ways that would require affluent families to pay more. At Stanford, students are being asked to contribute an additional $250 toward their education expenses for the current academic year and another $250 next year, bringing their total responsibility to $5,000. Meanwhile, families making more than $120,000 with more than one family member in college also may pay more under the school’s new calculations.

    “Our endowment was impacted by the downturn, so we’re still struggling with the results of that,” says Karen Cooper, Stanford’s financial-aid director.

    Paring Back Aid

    Yale said in December that it will pare back the aid given to families who make more than $130,000 starting this fall. Dartmouth will replace some grants with loans ranging from $2,500 to $5,500 annually for financial-aid recipients with families who make over $75,000 beginning this fall. Grinnell College, meanwhile, raised the maximum annual loan limits in aid packages by $250 to $2,250 last year.

    Schools, for their part, say they have made every effort to boost aid through fund-raising efforts, salary freezes and postponing capital-improvement projects. In the past five years, inflation-adjusted net tuition—what families pay out of pocket after receiving aid that doesn’t need to be repaid—actually dropped 11.2% at private, nonprofit colleges, according to the National Association of Independent Colleges and Universities.

    International applicants may have an edge over U.S. residents since many schools typically drop their need-blind pledges for foreign students. Williams, which is need-blind for U.S. students, had expanded that policy to foreign students before the financial crisis, but recently reversed it. International students cost the school about $10,000 more on average than U.S. students, says Paul Boyer, director of financial aid at Williams, who says the school is “absolutely not” lowering its admissions standards. Rather, he says, the school assumes those students have the ability to pay the full cost of attendance.

    Going Out of State

    As states cut back funds that would go toward educating in-state residents, public universities may increasingly turn to out-of-state residents to raise cash, experts say. State cutbacks have constrained the number of in-state students campuses enroll, leading some to admit more students who pay higher out-of-state tuition, says David Alcocer, associate director of student financial support for the University of California. The percentage of out-of-state residents is just under 7% across the U.C. system, up slightly from prior years.

    At the University of Michigan, the percentage of out-of-state students was 40.1% for the class entering last fall, up from 34% in 2008. Those percentages fluctuate based on a variety of factors, says Martha Pollack, Michigan’s vice provost for academic and budgetary affairs, who adds that in-state students remain the school’s priority.

  151. grim says:

    My cabinet guy says appliances first.

    Going with Kitchenaid for most things, Bosch for the dishwasher since we need a shallower depth to accommodate panels. 36″ cooktop instead of a rangetop to save some cash, double ovens since there is always baking going on. Fingers crossed we can get a good deal on a fridge to go built in. The geek also got to pick a smaller thermador induction cooktop for the island.

    Current cab choice are white shaker insets (ouch!!)

  152. Sepp says:

    Libtard In the City says:
    February 23, 2011 at 1:35 pm

    Doyle…there are really only three cabinet manufacturers if you don’t go custom.

    Masco – Makes a lower and middle level. I think they manufacture under 12 names or so. Decorra, Kraftmaid, Ultracraft, Cardell, etc.

    Masterbrand – Omega, Dynasty, etc.

    Chinese krap – Anything that ships flat (good for section 8 housing where it will get destroyed anyway).


    Masterbrand Cabinets is a division within Fortune Brands – which is the corporate parent(BTW-they also make Jim Beam, Knob Creek whiskey). Decora is also part of that group- it is not a Masco company/label. Other Masterbrand Cabinet brands are: Diamond, Aristokraft, Decora, Dynasty, Homecrest, Kitchencraft, Kemper & Omega. The new Martha Stewart line you see at HD is also a Masterbrand product.

    As to plywood vs. particle board, you would be nuts not to upgrade. Plywood is more durable than particle board and warpage is not any issue with American style face-frame construction . Generally, composite boards (e.g. MDF, Multi-Core) are used more with euro-style 32mm frame-less construction but you can downgrade to all-particle board construction with most lines sold.

    Specs vary from line to line. These days, Decora is all plywood, full-extension, all-wood drawers by default. With Diamond you must specify construction grade-furniture-core (particle board), PE (Plywood Ends), or APC (All plywood Construction). Unless you are being ripped off by your dealer- the upcharges should be around 1% for PE and 5% for APC- not a budget buster, eh?

    Agree about Chinese stuff -stay away! Some of it is very dubious. Asian woods finished to mimic domestic species – strange out-gassing and smells. Nasty.

  153. Juice Box says:

    Suzuki DRS200S – 105 mpg on/off road bike.
    Base price: $3,949 5,000 miles per year commuting = 47 gallons at what ever say price $6 dollars a gallon would be $282 dollars fuel bill.

    Better off with a 50 mpg auto it is more functional. I for one am hoping that BMW exports their new Europe 5 Series model as a 520d that gets 47 mpg. 5000 commuting miles = 106 gallons diesel @ $6 = $636 annual fuel bill.
    Base Price 54k.

    Car and Driver.

    “242-hp, diesel-powered 530d. We wish it were coming to the U.S., because it does everything as well as the 535i but—in the real world—uses about half the fuel. Top speed is limited at 155 mph, too, and on the way there, the engine emits a reassuring, subdued growl. Europe will get the benefit of a four-cylinder diesel in the 520d, with an engine stop/start system and fuel economy of 47 mpg in the European cycle, which—its being a diesel—is a realistic figure. We like the underlying message of the 520d, which is that it’s cute to drive a Prius or Insight but really completely unnecessary if big mileage is your objective. ”

  154. Juice Box says:

    #132 – MERS = 44 employees in Reston VA with little or no assets. Shell company suing them will get you nowhere.

  155. JJ says:

    Isn’t the real solution just to drive less. I drive on average 900 miles year. My car gets 25 Mpg, gas is around $3.30 over last year. I spent around $120 bucks last year on gas. I saw a study once where there is ZERO gas savings on a car that gets better MPG as you just drive more. My wife’s monster truck eats gas, but she walks to pick kids up and from school, walks to mail box and combines errands. So the car is hardly driven. If she had a prius she would be driving to these places.

    Juice Box says:
    February 23, 2011 at 2:37 pm

    Suzuki DRS200S – 105 mpg on/off road bike.
    Base price: $3,949 5,000 miles per year commuting = 47 gallons at what ever say price $6 dollars a gallon would be $282 dollars fuel bill.

    Better off with a 50 mpg auto it is more functional. I for one am hoping that BMW exports their new Europe 5 Series model as a 520d that gets 47 mpg. 5000 commuting miles = 106 gallons diesel @ $6 = $636 annual fuel bill.
    Base Price 54k.

  156. Libtard In the City says:

    Sepp –

    Thanks for the cabinet corrections. I’ll double check on the shelfing in the UltraCraft as to their composition. Still, with that 100-year guarantee, I’m not that terribly concerned either way. Thanks again.

    From my trained eye (5 years of shop + 2 semesters in college), I would rank the quality (ignoring the number of options and price) of the cabinets we looked closely at as follows:

    Cardell, Kraftmaid, Decora, UltraCraft, Dynasty, Omega.

    How would you say I did?

    Quite frankly, I think any of them would hold up just fine under normal non-commercial use.

  157. Anon E. Moose says:

    In honor of the subject post…

    Hey there in your car, outside your [foreclosed] house…[home prices] going down, down, down, down…

  158. Nicholas says:

    44 employees in Reston VA with little or no assets

    A 22 million dollar lawsuit against MERS will only indict those who made fraudulent transfers in the name of MERS and they will be ultimately responsible. I’m guessing that this is a fact finding mission to determine who is ultimately responsible for the lost revenue and how much.

    Yes, get out your popcorn cause this show has just gotten started.

  159. Juice Box says:

    re: JJ most of us don’t drive 3-4 miles a day, I am surprised you don’t take a bicycle to the train station in nice weather. A real solution is Mr. Market $6-$8 gas will force people to change their habits. When gas hit $4 a gallon back in April-June of 2008 I turned in my end of lease Hummer and bought a Hybrid that gets 32 + mpg. Now that gas is going up again I am in year three with only a few payments to go and I want to drive something nicer that has insurance against rising fuel prices then make it to year 4 again and trade up again. I am thinking the newer Diesel tech in a bmw or benz if they can actually send some of that tech here.

  160. dan says:


    Nobody and I mean nobody cares about the Nets. The Nets are about as popular as the Camden Aquarium.

  161. Anon E. Moose says:

    Juice [154];

    Agree that more economical euro-cars are far more practical than a motor scooter. It does rain and god forbid snow once in a while, and people need to get to work regardless.

    Something like the Renault Clio that is all over Europe pushing 65 (combined) mpg. A Mercedes A-class gets 45 (combined) mpg – will that will be the new benchmark for luxury and extavagance?

  162. Libtard In the City says:

    “Nobody and I mean nobody cares about the Nets.”

    I’m a Nets fan and I don’t even care about them!

  163. JJ says:

    I actually drive 1.5 miles a day. To and from train. Don’t want to wake up an extra ten minutes early to walk. I get to 900 a year only cause once in a blue moon I drive to a Jets game or wake or something. I used to walk to train all the time when I had more time and used to only put around 300 miles a year on car.

    Why do people drive so much where are they going? I take train to work, I take train to MSG or Meadowlands usually, I take train to see shows in city. And when I go on vacation I take a cab to airport and fly. The car is only for around town.

    Juice Box says:
    February 23, 2011 at 3:28 pm

    re: JJ most of us don’t drive 3-4 miles a day, I am surprised you don’t take a bicycle to the train station in nice weather. A real solution is Mr. Market $6-$8 gas will force people to change their habits. When gas hit $4 a gallon back in April-June of 2008 I turned in my end of lease Hummer and bought a Hybrid that gets 32 + mpg. Now that gas is going up again I am in year three with only a few payments to go and I want to drive something nicer that has insurance against rising fuel prices then make it to year 4 again and trade up again. I am thinking the newer Diesel tech in a bmw or benz if they can actually send some of that tech here.

  164. Nurburgringer says:

    Grim – which model Kitchenaid are you looking at?

    I know it’s ‘low rent’ but leaning towards one of these 30″ Kenmore Elite, 30% off sales ends tomorrow:

    Would love a Bertazonni, but one of those will buy a nice Kenmore, a Bendpak lift, AND a sauna :/

  165. JJ says:

    After today the Nets are only four players away from having a great team.

    dan says:
    February 23, 2011 at 3:29 pm


    Nobody and I mean nobody cares about the Nets. The Nets are about as popular as the Camden Aquarium.

  166. Painhrtz says:

    moose you can have luxury, economy and performance as the German automakers have demonstrated. The problem is cost, irrational american attitudes toward diesel, and the twin evils of CARB/EPA.

    Hybrids/electric cars are great in theory, but they are just as polluting. The difference is it isn’t noticed at the tailpipe. Since most Americans seem to think electricity comes from magic unicorns rear ends to their wall socket they are clamoring for electric vehicles when in actuality it just changes the source of pollution. Can’t wait to see all those dead cars alon the side of the road with no availability to electricity.

    The best hybrid would be a diesel electric, but we will never see them here. Unless it is a freight train.

  167. Doyle says:

    Grim-Sepp-Lib, thanks again…

  168. chi (102)-

    My problem is that I’m in the wine business, but I am far more interested in drinking large amounts of whiskey.

  169. moose (113)-

    No faux sociopathy here. Just good, old-fashioned hatred. Of you, ambulance-chaser.

    Things get a little jiggy in the next few weeks, I suggest you keep a low profile.

    Just saying.

    “If Clot has anything more than me it’s his internet-enabled faux sociopathy that he exhibits with abandon.”

  170. nwnj (120)-

    Yeah, why do anything to reward investors, entrepreneurs or small business owners? Individuals who take legitimate risk in order to create wealth and maybe a legacy to hand down to children are just dumb saps who should be punished for their arrogance and stripped of all assets by the Commissar.

    Anyone who believes that capital gains taxes are in any way sensible or fair is a collectivist eunuch.

  171. confused (127)-

    Translation into plain English: “Bend over and kiss your ass goodbye. It’s about to hit the fan.”

    “The economy is in a much stronger position to handle” rising oil prices, Geithner said today during a Bloomberg Breakfast in Washington. “Central banks have a lot of experience in managing these things.”

  172. Barbara says:

    Ok, because I know you love em, my low brow movie pick of the month is:
    Funny from start to finish. I was surprised. There is a running car stereo joke that never gets old.
    You’re welcome.

  173. It occurs to me that Eraserhead’s claim of competence in any field is akin to having Hannibal Lecter pitch you on his skills as a liver surgeon.

  174. Painhrtz says:

    Or yours as a wine saleman clot ; )

  175. dns lookup says:

    this post is very usefull thx!

  176. Nicholas (159)-

    Nobody will collect a cent from MERS. It’s just a front for the criminal bankster cabal, and the banksters will never be forced to pay for their damages or spend a day in jail for the destruction they have caused.

  177. Juice Box says:

    No More Hope and Change from the left.

    This is from the World Socialist Web Site:

    “Two and half years since the eruption of the financial crisis, more than 26 million workers cannot find a full-time job. State governments, under both Democrats and Republicans, are responding to budget deficits by closing schools, libraries, clinics and other public facilities, and carrying out attacks on state and municipal employees.

    Meanwhile, Wall Street share values have fully recovered since the crash of 2008 and the corporations and their top executives are richer than ever. President Obama has refused to provide a penny of relief to workers losing their jobs, homes and life savings. Instead he has outlined plans to slash a trillion dollars from vitally needed social services, to pay for the bailout of Wall Street, the extension of the Bush era tax cuts for the rich and the Pentagon war machine. And this is only the beginning….

    (In Wisconsin) workers are fighting for their very livelihoods. They cannot live with what amounts to a 20 percent pay cut and devastating cuts in public education and state universities for their children.” (“The struggle of Wisconsin workers enters a new stage”, World Socialist Web Site)

    The strike has entered its second week and still no sign of Obama. Thousands of workers and students from across the state have braved the freezing temperatures and joined in the demonstrations while closing down much of the school system.

    The entire country is watching. Many people are wondering how the GOP crackdown will affect their own jobs. They’re worried about their future and the future of the country.

    Obama could simply fly into Madison, deliver a few words of support for the strikers, and assure himself of a landslide victory in 2012. But he won’t do that, because he’s not the man that people thought he was. He won’t lift a finger to help his friends even when they’re embroiled in the biggest fight of their lives. He won’t support the people who supported him.

    Obama’s message to the teachers, “Drop dead!”

  178. MERS = Genco Olive Oil

  179. Babs (173)-

    Didn’t know you were a fan of Sasha Grey flicks. :)

  180. Barbara says:

    Capital gains and the sci-fi self employment tax are pretty much going to make a CVS employee in a few years. I’ll get health coverage, paid vacation and a 10% discount on the family sundries. Sign me up for that sweet dream….

  181. juice (178)-

    Nothing could be better than watching Bojangles done in at the polls by the same leeches who helped him win in ’08.

    I stand by my call the the parasite class will provide all the ultraviolence needed to rip this country to shreds. We can all sit back with fruity drinks and cheer on the casualties.

    Nothing is more potentially vicious than a public union leech who helps get somebody elected, then doesn’t get greased to the extent he feels is “fair” in exchange for his support.

  182. Barbara says:

    make ME a CVS employee….

  183. Babs (181)-

    Bray like a sheep when the Man zaps you in the arse with that electric prod.

    Thinkers are troublemakers. Best to shut off the brain and take orders.

  184. JJ says:

    CVS stands for Customer Value and Service. Which is funny as everything is overpriced and the lines are long and there never is any help.

  185. Barbara says:

    I’m envious of your new endeavor. I need to regroup and find that perfect middleman sitch again. Expertise + contacts + a little capital = we’re in business.

  186. JJ says:

    Capital is a funny thing. I go all in on sure things with my own money. Same with most companies, when people cut you in they are hedging their bets.

    Barbara says:
    February 23, 2011 at 4:43 pm

    I’m envious of your new endeavor. I need to regroup and find that perfect middleman sitch again. Expertise + contacts + a little capital = we’re in business.

  187. Barbara says:

    errm MacGruber, that is….

  188. Barbara says:

    “Capital is a funny thing. I go all in on sure things with my own money. Same with most companies, when people cut you in they are hedging their bets.”

    wise you are.

  189. Sepp says:

    Libtard (157)

    Kitchen cabinet is a low-tech item. Box with a door on it. Better boxes will last longer. Most semi-custom cabinetry these days comes with limited life-time warranty. Worst you’ll ever see is maybe a hinge crap out after many years of use. Builder grade stuff is a bit of a different story.

    Can’t respond as to rankings. There are also divisions within these labels so wouldn’t know what specifically you were looking at. The big boys Masco, Masterbrands position brands to best capture all price points up and down the scale. You can sometimes find a nice gem in a lower priced line and and conversely, unappealing stuff in more upmarket brands. It’s in the eye of the beholder type of thing.

  190. gary says:

    Debt [179],

    LMAO! Best post ever!!

  191. Sepp says:

    Grim (152)

    White shaker inset puts you into realm of custom cabinetry. Market is about 85% semi- custom. Remainder is split between stock & custom.

    Inset doors are tricky since machining of wood has to be tight for good, even margin between cabinet frame and door. Since classic look for this style would require butt hinge ( little adjustment possible) manufacture and quality control needs to be top notch. Concealed euro hinges can be used but adjustment still becomes very critical to maintain nice even margins.

    Check out the Penn-line by Kountry Kraft Kitchens in Newmanstown, PA if you can. They are particularly good on this end of product line. Semi-custom manufacturers do not offer inset cabinetry but sometimes do have full-overlay doors that mimic the inset style ( See e.g. Diamond -LaGrange Door style). One exception that I know of is Jim Bishop Cabinetry down in Alabama. They are semi-custom manufacturer but do offer a line called Craftsman that is inset style. Limited door styles but they do have white- shaker- paint. Prices more like semi-custom.

  192. Sepp says:

    Juice Box (154)

    Suzuki DRS 200 definitely would be a nice post-peak, zombie apocalypse ride but would stick with a T-Dub with some mods. Would also scrap the BMW for a classic VW bug.
    T-Dub & V-Dub – perfect together!

  193. Confused In NJ says:

    172.Debt Supernova says:
    February 23, 2011 at 4:18 pm
    confused (127)-

    Translation into plain English: “Bend over and kiss your ass goodbye. It’s about to hit the fan.”

    “The economy is in a much stronger position to handle” rising oil prices, Geithner said today during a Bloomberg Breakfast in Washington. “Central banks have a lot of experience in managing these things.”

    Gas hit $4 a gallon in LA, but Channel 2 said not to worry, it’s $8 a gallon in Europe. On gal in LA drives an electric motor skooter which goes 40 miles on a .50 cent electric charge. Wave of the future? I guess if you live in a City.

  194. Pat says:

    Was there a Fed shut down deadpool on here and I missed it?

    Trying not to post.


  195. Al Mossberg says:

    Silver open interest for the front month of March saw only a marginal decrease
    from 53,125 to 50,888 for a loss of only 2277 contracts. 5 days left. I am praying for a real show at the CRIMEX. Bwahahahaha!

  196. Al Mossberg says:

    50,000 X 5000 OZ = 250,000,000 oz standing for delivery. Word on the street is some ex JP Morgan traders know how much silver the Comex has (supposedly 116 million oz) and are going to stand for delivery so they get paid off in cash to rollover the contracts.

  197. Al Mossberg says:

    Actually I stand corrected. Theres 40,000 contracts x 5000 oz = 200,000,000 oz for delivery. Crash the Crimex! (And the Commie subversive unions)

  198. babs (186)-

    I just found out a few weeks ago that the outfit I’m helping doesn’t have any capital. The guys I report to wake up every morning and make it up from scratch, like kids playing touch football in the park.

    We have good wine, and we have me and a couple other guys who know how to hustle and sell. Beyond that, it’s a coin toss as to whether this company exists in 12 months.

  199. gary (191)-

    Some people use the Bible. Me, I can find the answer to any of life’s questions in The Godfather.

  200. pat (195)-

    Vigoda still has longer odds than the Fed shutdown in pretty much any deadpool I know of.

  201. It just struck me that in the world of deadpool, when Vigoda finally does kick, it will trigger a reset much like the complete shutdown of the Fed might.

  202. al (198)-

    This is the year that “failure-to-deliver event” enters the OED.

  203. Folks, I think we’ve found the bottom of the rabbit hole.

    “Ever wonder why the banks have been stowing away cash as if in anticipation of a torrential rainy day? Well, it just started pouring. According to the WSJ: “The Obama administration is trying to push through a settlement over mortgage-servicing breakdowns that could force America’s largest banks to pay for reductions in loan principal worth billions of dollars…Terms of the administration’s proposal include a commitment from mortgage servicers to reduce the loan balances of troubled borrowers who owe more than their homes are worth, people familiar with the matter said. The cost of those writedowns won’t be borne by investors who purchased mortgage-backed securities, these people said…some state attorneys general and federal agencies are pushing for banks to pay more than $20 billion in civil fines or to fund a comparable amount of loan modifications for distressed borrowers…Regulators are looking at up to 14 servicers that could be a party to the settlement…Banks would also have to reduce second-lien mortgages when first mortgages are modified…Under the administration’s proposed settlement, banks would have to bear the cost of all writedowns rather than passing them on to other investors. The settlement proposal focuses on pushing servicers who mishandled foreclosure procedures to eat losses, by writing down loans that they service on behalf of clients. Those clients include mortgage-finance giants Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, as well as investors in loans that were securitized by Wall Street firms.” In other words, we have just reached the pinnacle of banana republic socialist insanity. In one fell swoop the teleprompter will not only grant reprieve to the banks for decades of fraudulent mortgage activity, but undercapitalize themselves and have them at risk for another liquidity run, which would of course mean another record multi-trillion taxpayer bailout. And the worst case: the 10 million or whatever underwater mortgages will get an average reduction of $2000 each.”

  204. Kettle1 says:

    Debt 204

    I am assuming that the “home owners” get a freebe from the IRS as well for the forgiven debt. Since i dont have a mortgage do i get a tax free check in the mail that doesnt count against my taxable income at the end of the year????

    If the banks behaved criminally ( is that really a question) shut them down and prosecute. otherwise we are just another banana republic.

    Yes, I know, not going to happen. Off to buy more lead….. I would consider myself lucky if some of my lead was actually tungsten core!

  205. Kettle1 says:

    Debt 204

    from your link

    the 10 million or whatever underwater mortgages will get an average reduction of $2000 each

    That is a huge taxpayer funded get out of jail free card for the banks while a big giant F U to every one else. For that matter it would be a blatant F U to the intelligence (or lack of) of the average homeowner who took the deal. What is 2K going to do to actually help the average underwater home owner? Jack Squat! But hey, i bet the paper work generated int he process supersedes the fraudulent paper trail that exists to date and allows the banks to quietly ignore any of the previous mess with clouded titles and naked notes.
    Let me guess this would also indemnify them against any further actions?!?!

  206. Kettle1 says:

    Riddle me this, how exactly do you prevent a bank from passing this cost on to everyone else from consumers to investors. You cant.

  207. ket (207)-

    Gotta think the settlement would completely preclude any further actions, with absolute prejudice.

    On the bright side, I’d like to think of a settlement like this as the absolute trigger to the ultimate destruction of the US. We really need this to happen, for no other reason than to quit imposing our degenerate ideas and attitude on the rest of the world.

  208. Kettle1 says:


    great comment from zero hedge

    If we’re gonna be a Banana Republic, then maybe we could swap our delusional meglomaniac in the White House for the Colonel from Tripoli.

    Look at it this way, the guy has over 30 years experience on his resume, and if we want to start out on the right path on our way to Banana Republicanism, we need someone with his extensive experience.

    And, at least Muammar doesn’t need a couple of teleprompters to rant incomprehensible jibberish. He just has it piped in from the CIA through his tin foil hat hidden under the turban he wears.

  209. Juice Box says:

    debt – anecdotal the wine majors have recently been sending out hot women and men for tastings at my local establishment, haven’t seen anything like it in years. I see less and less Australian wine too, must be cutting back on imports due to the shipping cost margins.

  210. Barbara says:

    JJ, to clarify – when I said capital, I meant my own money. I’ve got the capital, I need the sure thing.

  211. d2b says:

    Juice 211-
    Australia has had a drought for the past few years. I wonder if that has anything to do with the absence of the vintages.

  212. Most Australian wine blows. That’s why it gets less and less play in the US. Overoaked chardonnay and ink-dark Shiraz with 16% alcohol are incredibly tiresome to drink.

    We only deal in W. Australia (Margaret River area, near Perth). The climate there is much cooler, and the wines have balance. Surprisingly, this part of Australia doesn’t need irrigation and is not subject to the various environmental catastrophes that have become commonplace in Victoria, NSW and S. Australia.

  213. box (211)-

    This is the retard version of viral marketing. Those models probably all have herpes.

  214. The big wine houses are also hiring shills to call wine stores and request certain wines that are not in stock. Sometimes, the same salesperson who ends up selling the “requested” wine to a store is the same shill who made the original bogus request call.

    RE is not the only profession with schlock sales techniques.

  215. Kettle1 says:

    It apparently looks like Arizona SB1259 is set to be passed into law. Local commentary is that it is expected to breeze through the house and the governor is expected to sign it. The bill passed the state senate with only 2 nays.

    Make sure you have your costco sized popcorn ready because any bank trying to foreclose in Arizona could have a very big problem.







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