From the Philly Inquirer:
November saw bumps in home sales and prices
The National Association of Realtors reported Thursday that sales of previously owned houses rose 5.9 percent last month from October’s levels and were 14.5 percent higher than those of a year ago.
…
In the eight-county Philadelphia region, sales were up 11 percent from October and 30.4 percent from November 2011, according to Prudential Fox & Roach’s HomExpert Market Report.Median prices rose 6.4 percent, from $195,000 a year ago to $207,500. In October, the region’s median price – half the houses sold for more, half for less – was $200,000.
“November and December have been like a spring market,” said Noelle Barbone, office manager at Weichert Realtors in Media. Sales in November are running 21 percent above last year, with “first-time buyers and quite a few investors in the mix.”
Barbone noted that there had been an increase in cash sales, “with parents helping their children buy.”
Mary Kate McKinlay, a 2009 Cabrini College graduate who works for an Audubon, Montgomery County, company that manages clinical trials, closed on her first house Nov. 2 in Clifton Heights, Delaware County.
Lured by low interest rates and hoping to spend less than $140,000, she said, she looked at five or six houses in September before signing an agreement for a rehabbed rowhouse, which she purchased for $123,000.
…
“I’m surprised how quickly it happened,” said McKinlay, who was living with her parents in nearby Springfield Township and had hoped to buy by year’s end.“This was the first house I’d looked at,” she said, adding that she found the home-buying process “comfortable,” while acknowledging that others might not have the same experience.
Friskies
secondsies!
nice job Boehner. Party of retards.
on housing news…i’m sure some of you saw Shiller’s quote the other day:
“I’m not convinced we have completely bottomed” or something like that.
Happy Holidays.
It’s still too soon to call a bottom in housing, much less the start of a boom, Yale University economist Robert Shiller said Wednesday on CNBC.
“A lot of people seem to think that if the market turns around, that means more of the same, meaning another big boom,” he said. “I don’t think that’s in the cards. We might see home prices go up a little bit, you know, a little bit above inflation, maybe. Not likely that we’ll see a real boom.”
Shiller, who also co-authors the widely followed S&P/Case-Shiller Home Price Index, pointed out that his survey of home buyers would need to show greater enthusiasm for the market before he changed his tune.
“We don’t see that improving,” he said. “I’d like to people getting optimistic again. Not that I expect to see this, but if you want to see another boom like that, people would to have to get excited and thinking that this is it. You know, I don’t quite see it.
“It’s not this gung-ho, go into housing.”
As for calling a bottom in home prices, Shiller said that there might not be enough demand on the buyers’ side to do so.
Prices, he said, would likely continue to rise in the near term.
“I’ll predict that they’ll continue to go for a few more months,” but, he added, “people are interested in what home prices are going to do in years.”
thanks for posting that Grim.
Enjoy your first Christmas/Hanukkah/Kwanza/Pagan Fire Ceremony and NYE with your kid!
5 – His statements seem to be a touch wishy washy/contradictory, maybe it was just poor editing or a lack of context though. The only thing he seems to be certain on is that there won’t be another boom anytime soon, which I think is the broad consensus anyway.
Dow Futures are down 200+ pts, and the S&P Futures are down 22 pts. Please be available at the open.
nice news flash hitting trading desks from one minute ago. Game on baby.
Schiller is calling a dead cat bounce
Good Morning New Jersey
This guy has been almost perfect on his housing call, right?
“I think housing is going to continue to improve,” says Mark Zandi, chief economist at Moody’s Analytics. “So for the next 3 or 4 years we will see better home sales, more housing construction and higher house prices. All of which is good news for the economic recovery.”
callS
My 0.02 is that inventory in ChesCo is scarcer here than in NJ. Very little coming on and sellers are usually getting their ask if the property isn’t a disaster.
re: Tips question from yesterday, thanks to Fab and Lib
Anyone have a DIY alarm/monitoring system they like?
UPS Guy Steals an iPad mini that a FedEx had just delivered:
http://gizmodo.com/5970421/ups-guy-steals-an-ipad-mini-that-fedex-had-just-delivered
[13] 250
I recall wilife got good reviews when I was looking at nannycam systems.
10 – Zandi was generally neutral, or if anything a bit of a contrarian, but he changed his tune when he was shooting for a seat on the Obama administration.
Gary Shilling’s predictions for 2012 were not quite as good….
http://finance.yahoo.com/blogs/daily-ticker/20-drop-housing-cause-recession-2012-says-gary-161445494.html
What time is the world supposed to end today?
Brian it already did you missed it.
I heard it live….he sounded wishy washy saying it…..
grim says:
December 21, 2012 at 9:01 am
5 – His statements seem to be a touch wishy washy/contradictory, maybe it was just poor editing or a lack of context though. The only thing he seems to be certain on is that there won’t be another boom anytime soon, which I think is the broad consensus anyway.
Judging by the many obstacles I encountered just getting to the airport (intense gale, flash flooded roads, highway closed, more driving rain), I was pretty certain that the apocalypse started this morning.
18 –
Really? Am I in heaven? I gotta say, I’m a little dissapointed.
Given the fact that I ran out of half and half and it’s only 10:35, I concur, the apocalypse is here.
Grim #22
I’m a doomsday prepper, I bought 2 large containers of half and half and 6 cans of coffee just in case. I figure I can survive till we all go off the fiscal cliff. Merry Christmas to all & Thanks for the entertainment in 2012.
re: #21 – ” Am I in heaven?”
More like Mordor.
Heading to the Short Hills Mall at noon to buy wifey a gift.
Any Ideas Gents?
The bubble is starting to leak:
http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/belmont-abbey-college-helping-burst-private-college-tuition-bubble-with-tuition-reset-to-under-20k-for-new-students-181182241.html
BELMONT, N.C., Nov. 28, 2012 /PRNewswire/ — Private Catholic College Belmont Abbey today announced it is doing its part to burst the college tuition bubble by reducing its annual tuition cost to $18,500 beginning in fall 2013. This represents an almost $10,000 per year reduction in the College’s published tuition price for incoming freshmen and transfer students.
“Over the past 25 years, average college tuition and fees in the United States has increased more than 440 percent,” said Belmont Abbey College President, Dr. William K. Thierfelder . “At more than four times the rate of inflation, that’s not sustainable for the average American family so it’s time to reverse the trend.”
Similar-sized colleges have announced tuition resets over the past two years, largely due to declining enrollment numbers. However, Belmont Abbey’s reduction in tuition “sticker price” comes at a time of growth for the College that celebrated its highest traditional undergraduate enrollment ever in 2012. This fall also saw considerable capital improvements such as a new dining hall, fitness facility and renovated student center. Two new residence halls will open in fall 2013 to accommodate the increasing number of resident students.
25 – Coach Purse?
Tuition cuts, freezes, matching state school prices, 4 year progams reduced to 3 year programs, Bachelors + Masters in 5 years, etc.
http://www.naicu.edu/special_initiatives/affordability/about/
In NJ alone:
Seton Hall University
South Orange, NJ
Seton Hall University is reducing tuition and fees by two-thirds ($21,000) for academically high achieving students, to match Rutgers University’s in-state rate.
Georgian Court University
Lakewood, NJ
Georgian Court University is freezing tuition at its current level for 2012-13.
Saint Peter’s College
Jersey City, NJ
Beginning in 2012-13, a new partnership allows students at Hudson Community College who attain an associate’s degree to transfer their credits to bachelor’s degree programs at Saint Peter’s College, and pay tuition and fees equivalent to a state university.
Saint Peter’s College
Jersey City, NJ
Beginning in 2012-13, Saint Peter’s College will offer five-year combined bachelor’s-master’s programs in accountancy and in criminal justice.
watching the NRA guy talk on CNBC……the Heckling is starting….
Dartmouth College
Beginning in fall 2012, Dartmouth College will provide free tuition and eliminate loans from the financial aid packages for students with family incomes of $100,000 a year or less, raising the income threshold from $75,000. This move is effective for eligible current as well as incoming students. Dartmouth’s program was implemented in 2008-09.
Sorry but I can’t gift wrap myself and get out there in time.
Three gifts come to mind.
1) Nice Omaha Steaks order
2) Beers of the World order
3) Season tickets to your favorite team
Juice Box says:
December 21, 2012 at 10:57 am
Heading to the Short Hills Mall at noon to buy wifey a gift.
Any Ideas Gents?
Merry Christmas Funnel!
.45 ACP iridium sights or a desert eagle
armed guards in every school!
the world must have ended because that speech was in the new bizarro afterlife.
the SNL send up should be fun.
#30 expat…
Here’s to free tuitions funded mainly by endowments at top schools. It’s only a simple matter of kids getting admissions into top schools!
A box from Maison du chocolate can be had on the second floor of the short hills mall.
#23
” I bought 2 large containers of half and half and 6 cans of coffee just in case”
If the world is ending, it is not appealing to stay awake and fully experience all the pain.
Two bottles of oxy and a fifth from the new weed dealer in Montclair?
38 –
I’m leaving that out for Santa.
He doesn’t really have to drive the sleigh anyway….the reindeer do most of the work.
Juice, can’t go wrong bringing back a little blue box.
http://finance.fortune.cnn.com/2012/12/21/bush-tax-cuts-obama/?iid=Lead
Not once is it mentioned that even if there were no tax cuts a decade ago (assuming same growth or lack there of) the budget would still be in a huge deficit.
Pathetic. Whatever.
NRA presser:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CLjNJI54GMM
[43] dope,
I didn’t see it so this will help. But I’m sure it was not helpful. I advise clients in that situation to say nothing or as little as possible. When the trend is your friend, you can’t sweat the periodic setback, and you should do nothing to give your enemies ammo.
Joyce because they are all loathe to admit it is a spending problem. If FEdgov cut 30% of spending tomorrow do you think any of the other 330 million people in this country would notice. That is their fear, if they cut spending in a ballyhoo’d manor and there is no appreciable impact on the average American they will never be able to extort another red cent ever, and us proles would come looking for more cuts.
A vasectomy……
Juice Box says:
December 21, 2012 at 10:57 am
Heading to the Short Hills Mall at noon to buy wifey a gift.
Any Ideas Gents?
NRA throws down the gauntlet, cop in every school.
Says that as a society, we guard our banks and money better than our kids.
Strong argument.
Actually, lots of schools in NJ already have cops on staff (School Resource Officers), really nothing new here.
47 – there was a little more to it than that
They blamed video games and movies for all the violence. They advocated a TON of more government spending by putting armed guards in every school (do we background check all these guards or just give them the guns and let them hang around our kids all day?), etc. etc.
I read today that Columbine had an armed officer at the school. Haven’t verified if that was the case but I do recall that when Kliebold and the other guy (Harris?) entered the school with their arsenal the cop took them out with two clean shots. Massacre averted! Thank god he was there.
Chi that is what I got my wife for christmas! It has been a very sore week.
The background check we give to police officers are other govt officials doesn’t seem to do anything, and that’s already in place.
Sure, YOUR world didn’t end today, but OURS did.
Gator Junior 2 (Electric Bugaloo) and mom are recovering nicely. 8.5 pounds of screaming joy.
Don’t they have a police force on the Virginia Tech campus? Didn’t seem to stop that guy in time.
47.grim says:
December 21, 2012 at 12:48 pm
NRA throws down the gauntlet, cop in every school.
Says that as a society, we guard our banks and money better than our kids.
Strong argument.
53 –
Congrats!
54 – Brian…wrong!
They had a whole POLICE FORCE at Va Tech.
congrats on the kid Lib.
you have 2 boys now?
Yup. It’s a house of men. Especially when you throw in the dog.
Funny part is why do rich kids need to go to college at all, what is point?
Financial Aid should all be need based.
Congrats Lib! When does he start hockey lessons?
BREAKING!!!!
M.A.D.D. Proposed Drinking Before Driving Become Mandatory
proposeS
He refuses to lace up until the lockout is ended. This one is muc
Congrats, Stu. I’ll bring the new boy a box of .223 for his bris gift.
Much stronger than the first one. Scary. Baby has muscles. Hopefully a few braincells to go with them. He definitely recognizes my voice too.
#61
Choom, have another xany and relax. Your crowd will have another chance at dismantling the constitution before the term is up.
Repurpose TSA agents as armed skool guards.
Uh…wait a minute on that…uh…
jj suddenly thinking about becoming a skool guard in a HS with lots of hot girls.
“Hey, little girlie, wanna see my piece?”
stu (65)-
Get a gat in his hand, pronto.
“Scary. Baby has muscles.”
No bris this time. Going the hospital snip route. Though prefer Twinkies over ammo at this point. Dedicate the arsenal to the schools. It appears the unintelligent left is falling inline with an old NRA tenet. Best way to stop gun crime is to give everyone a gun. Silly emotional parents.
Lib, congrats to you and Gator! Guess you can save money on clothes now.
Congratulations, Lib, on the apocalypse baby.
Congrats to everyone else on surviving the apocalypse.
BREAKING!!!!
Pontiff Advocates ‘More Young Boys Should Be Left Alone With Priests’ To Curb Molestation
I tell you what back in my day in elementary school in the Bronx that kid would have got shot at least ten times by us kids. We were all packing heat. Actually those judo stars you throw, zip guns, slingshots, bb guns, kung fu sticks, switchblades etc were pretty much standard material in kindergarten in the Bronx. But the sixth grade kids had some serious firepower. Charged as a minor under 12 so the 8-11 year olds had some serious firepower from their “look-out” jobs.
I think let the elementary kids once again bring weapons to school.
Ernest Money says:
December 21, 2012 at 1:25 pm
jj suddenly thinking about becoming a skool guard in a HS with lots of hot girls.
“Hey, little girlie, wanna see my piece?”
As the altar boy once said I find this hard to swallow.
Peace, Love, Dope says:
December 21, 2012 at 1:30 pm
BREAKING!!!!
Pontiff Advocates ‘More Young Boys Should Be Left Alone With Priests’ To Curb Molestation
47. In fact the closer homes are in a particular neighborhood, The less i want the guy next door with armor piercing bullets.
Hitachi Magic Wand . 4.5 Star avg rating on Amazon.
Lib, congrats.
As for the NRA, they need to start playing up what they purport is their primary mission which is to be “…the premier firearms education organization in the world. ”
Make training (including hands-on) a mandatory part of gun permitting process in every state in the union. And maybe they can beef up the part about how to properly store guns when you think your son is a psychopath.
My vision of at least one firearm for every breathing Amerikan is coming to fruition.
Now, we need an electrified fence and a pit bull for every family in Amerika.
78 – NRA makes more money when more guns are sold… surprising that they advocate a plan for more guns?
LaPierre in short: cartoon guns are what kill people, not real guns.
Now eagerly awaiting a jj nunchuck/zip gun story.
Where’s Charlton Heston when we really need him?
Fat Man has his own damn security detail. What kind of danger, exactly, is the Governor in that he needs to be protected by armed state police on a daily basis?
What doesn’t Obama be the first to show us all that guns don’t protect, and give up the secret service? Can we arm them with pepper spray and batons? Or is that too dangerous?
Let’s disband the TSA and armed guards at the airports tomorrow. God forbid someone get accidentally shot at the airport.
While we’re at it, those armored truck guys seem to be packing a little bit too much firepower, don’t want to get shot by the Diebold driver at the ATM.
Why the hell is the courthouse under lockdown too? Bunch of old white guys in dresses need armed guards and security checkpoints?
Good grief.
More shootings in PA today
How can you simultaneously criticize the NRA proposal while complacently standing by with armed guards and police EVERYWHERE.
Look, I agree that Wayne is a bit nutso, but it appears to me that the proposal is being discounted because it came from the NRA. If it had come from a bunch of democrats, I think that it would be received much differently.
Congtatulations Lib
83 – I think he is laying dead and cold…but with his gun in his hand.
84 – so grim is ReInvestor101 after all!
89 – Not nearly creative enough.
2-year-old girl watching cartoons is hit by stray bullet in Tennessee shootout
I am not a “ban all guns” guy but I think certain (hopefully) preventive measures can be taken and for the head of the NRA to give that presser that he did is just laughable I really enjoyed watching it. It was incredible theater.
91 – I stand corrected!
Score +1 for LaPierre…cartoons do kill.
Congrats Lib and Gator!
“I do wish more people who manage to fully comprehend the broad trauma a mass shooting can have on our country would consider the consequences of a decade of war.”
“Most of the world’s media, which has rightly commemorated the children of Newtown, either ignores Obama’s murders or accepts the official version that all those killed are ‘militants’. The children of north-west Pakistan, it seems, are not like our children. They have no names, no pictures, no memorials of candles and flowers and teddy bears. They belong to the other: to the non-human world of bugs and grass and tissue.
“‘Are we,’ Obama asked on Sunday, ‘prepared to say that such violence visited on our children year after year after year is somehow the price of our freedom?’ It’s a valid question. He should apply it to the violence he is visiting on the children of Pakistan.”
“And let there be no mistake: many of ‘us’ have directly felt the impact of that culture: Which ‘us’? Yemeni parents, Pakistani uncles and aunts, Afghan grandparents and cousins, Somali brothers and sisters, Filipino cousins have experienced the impact of the culture of killing children. Families of children who live in countries that are routinely droned by the US [government]. Families of children whose villages are raided nightly in Afghanistan and Iraq.”
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/dec/19/newtown-drones-children-deaths
“In March 1995, LaPierre sent a fundraising letter to 3.5 million NRA members calling federal law enforcement agents “jack-booted government thugs.”
soooo….today he advocates “more jack-booted thugs!!” A jack-booted thug in every school a chicken in every pot!
92
what preventative measures
And why is it that a police officer in a school is a bad idea again?
I knew one of the SROs that was assigned to Clifton High, he was a great guy, the kids loved him. I have no doubt he had a positive influence.
98 – more government spending???? where do you get off?!
ha! wish i could recount all the bitching and moaning i have read on here about these lazy, vacation day and benefit grubbing government workers. let’s hire a bunch more!!!
Joyce well at least someone is calling.chairman O a hypocrite directly
joyce those paki kids are terroists in training, the newtown kids were cute. Case Closed.
Kinda like lots of folks walked by by house after storm and consoled me on my loss of both a BMW and a Mercedes, folks actually stopped to stare at the flood ruined cars.
Meanwhile my nieghbors puke green saturn and his red minivan no one cared.
The Newton kids are cute and as american as apple pie. They would have gone on to lead lives of saving people, having children, making their parents proud.
The paki kids goal was to blow us up when they grow up.
101 – agree. i wish the press in the good ol’ usa wasn’t so complicit with the gubmint when they were itching to start those wars.
Congrats! Lib and Gator on your new arrival. I am glad you chose the Hospital route over the kiddie pool in the living room, and great tax planning too.
re: #46 -Chi – boys won’t be sitting on the bench they are on deck and will be at bat soon.
Stu: congrats……
To continue the hockey theme, I assume you mean that you are not going to “slip one past the goalie”, but rather going for the empty netter……..
Juice Box says:
December 21, 2012 at 2:34 pm
re: #46 -Chi – boys won’t be sitting on the bench they are on deck and will be at bat soon.
where else to put armed guards:
– every school bus? or school bus with more than 20 seats?
– every municipal library?
– every Chuck-E-Cheeses?
– every karate and dance studio?
– every city pool (or you can arm lifeguards?)?
…
– Museum of Natural History?
…
Drove by the mall the other day, the whole mounted crew was out there, nice too see the NJ First Cavalry out in full force.
Nice to know that we all feel it’s more important to guard Christmas shopping and our cars.
why do you associate guarding our kids with having armed guards in schools? once a guy (or gal) with an assault weapon starts his attack on a school it is too late. that school, that town, those kids will never be the same.
Why don’t they just put a SWAT team in every school?
“LaPierre did not note that Columbine High School had an armed guard when two students went on a murderous shooting rampage there in 1999, and that Virginia Tech had an armed police force with its own SWAT team equivalent when one of its students killed 33 people in 2007. “
I’m glad the anti-war movement vanished on December 21st 2008.
103.Peace, Love, Dope says:
December 21, 2012 at 2:30 pm
101 – agree. i wish the press in the good ol’ usa wasn’t so complicit with the gubmint when they were itching to start those wars.
I just don’t understand the basis for your argument.
Basically, it boils down to police not being able to stop crimes. If that’s the case, why the hell do we have police at all? I just don’t understand why certain people or places require police to guard them (and we are all complacent, and thus in agreement with that), but that somehow schools are sacred ground? Nobody seems to have any problem with the mounted cavalry guarding the mall, movie theater, restaurants, and parking. I think I actually saw one with a saddle mounted holster and rifle.
The last time I was at Newark, there were military in fatigues with ACTUAL machine guns. We’re saying that the airports are more important, are we not?
Who said the role is to solely stop a psychopath looking for mass damage? Maybe they curb drug sales, maybe they stop a girl from getting raped in the bathroom, maybe they break up a fight between Graydon and Ethan. Or maybe when Ethan gets hauled off in cuffs, the rest of the kids think twice about throwing a punch.
Your arguing that you don’t want a police state, but look around, it’s already here.
108
cobbler,
How about we let individuals decide?
Grim could have a point…if there were some armed guards at the Fort Hood military base, someone would have likely prevented that mass killing spr…oh, wait…scratch that.
If those soldiers at Fort Hood were banned from watching movies and playing video games…
109 –
Grim, where do you draw the line on the right to bear arms? Should everbody be able to buy rocket launchers, grenades, tanks and surface to air missiles? I guess what I’m saying is, I don’t think we should completely outlaw guns but, don’t you think we have to at least examine the current rules on what people can buy and make them more restrictive in light of the Newtown shootings? Maybe screen people a little better? I think the Virginia tech guy ordered his gun via mail and picked it up at the pawn shop across the street from the school. That’s a little disturbing. He also had a history of disturbing behavior with two girls who reported his behavior. His roomate also said he threatened to kill himself. Maybe we could have a database of this sort of thing and these people could be prevented from buying guns.
Stu:
Congrads on the new family addition!
Maybe we could have a database of this sort of thing and these people could be prevented from buying guns.
Did you just suggest a government run database of mentally ill individuals? How does that work. You pick up a Rx for Prozac and you get put on the watch list? Or maybe if you are a little too shy and geeky, you get put on the list?
110
dope,
what’s if it’s not an assault weapon but a handgun? or home made explosive or gasoline or a box-cutter?
Seems to me simple deadbolt locks inaccessible from any window on the door would have saved many lives at Sandy Hook school and also Virginia Tech.
A “lockdown” strategy of turning off the lights and hoping a lunatic does not walk in the door is not much of a strategy. At least give teachers a means to properly secure a door (such as a sliding deadbolt no in reach of any window on the door).
“In room 204, Professor Liviu Librescu, an Israeli Holocaust survivor, forcibly prevented Cho from entering the room. Librescu was able to hold the door closed until most of his students escaped through the windows, but he died after being shot multiple times through the door.”
Why don’t we examine the role of guns NOT in the light of the Newtown shootings? Or how about we examine the role of guns in this light “guns are used to prevent crimes and save lives between 700,000 and 2.5 million times each year (depending on study size, time frame and other factors). You could get the book entitled “Armed,” by Kleck and Kates, and read the studies yourself”
http://jpfo.org/articles-assd02/korwin-lobbyist-give-up.htm
116.Brian says:
December 21, 2012 at 3:12 pm
109 –
Grim, where do you draw the line on the right to bear arms? Should everbody be able to buy rocket launchers, grenades, tanks and surface to air missiles? I guess what I’m saying is, I don’t think we should completely outlaw guns but, don’t you think we have to at least examine the current rules on what people can buy and make them more restrictive in light of the Newtown shootings? Maybe screen people a little better? I think the Virginia tech guy ordered his gun via mail and picked it up at the pawn shop across the street from the school. That’s a little disturbing. He also had a history of disturbing behavior with two girls who reported his behavior. His roomate also said he threatened to kill himself. Maybe we could have a database of this sort of thing and these people could be prevented from buying guns.
118 –
Two girls reported suspicious behavior to the campus cops about the VT shooter before it happened. Then the guy IM’d his roomate saying he wanted to kill himself. that was also reported to campus cops. The warning signs were there…. Yeah, we ought to look into that before we hand the guy a firearm.
118 – which is it grim? are you for the police state or not? only at our schools and malls but nor for the mentally ill? you are ALL over the place on this.
Grim, where do you draw the line on the right to bear arms? Should everbody be able to buy rocket launchers, grenades, tanks and surface to air missiles? I guess what I’m saying is, I don’t think we should completely outlaw guns but, don’t you think we have to at least examine the current rules on what people can buy and make them more restrictive in light of the Newtown shootings?
We live in a state with some of the most restrictive gun laws on the books, and CT is not far off. Before you criticize how easy it is to get a gun, have you ever even tried it?
It took my wife and I 7 months to get our gun permit, 7 months. We had to submit to background and mental health checks. We both needed to submit two separate letters of recommendation from non-family members (who were called and interviewed by the police). We were fingerprinted, and interviewed in person by the Captain of the local PD. It took 3 separate visits to the PD to get everything in place. My wife applied for 2 handgun permits and was questioned extensively on why she wanted two guns (she wanted a .22 match target pistol in addition to her .40).
This took 7 months, two independent character witnesses, and background checks. In addition, when we actually purchased our guns, we were subjected to the NICS check at the point of sale, in addition to having all of our documentation reviewed. The NICS check took over an hour, and with the other paperwork the process to actually buy the gun was at least 2.5 hours.
Getting your hands on a legal handgun in NJ is not an easy feat.
The difference is the objects designed purpose.
119.joyce says:
December 21, 2012 at 3:15 pm
110
dope,
what’s if it’s not an assault weapon but a handgun? or home made explosive or gasoline or a box-cutter?
124 – they should have done that to Seung-Hui Cho.
Brian,
How many AR-15’s are out there and not used in a deadly shooting each year?
126
And if this mentally ill madman had been turned down by the govt to get his permit, I’m sure he would have just given up and said “nah, that whole killing spree I had planned, forget it”
It’s just not possible to acquire a gun using other channels
“Whole world’s coming to an end, Mal…”
Mass shooting in Pennsylvania: At least four reported dead
Published: 21 December, 2012, 22:05
Gates & Lib,
Congrats and best wishes.
123 – My position is that what happened last Friday is a tragedy, and that we as a society should do more to prevent violence.
However, I do not believe that “feel good” anti-gun legislation is going to stop anything from happening again. Pass all you want, my position is it’s going to do crap. So pat yourselves on the back and feel good at night again, but your sense of security will be false.
I feel something needs to be done, and I feel we need to change our perspective on the scenario to include areas for new legislation in addition to guns. If a bill comes to the table that is focused on new gun regulations, we’ve all failed.
Reducing high-capacity magazines is a good idea, lets do it, and lets destroy all of the ones that exist out in the market, let’s make it a felony to own one. No grandfathering of existing mags. Let’s get the assault weapon bans back in place, I have no issues there, I think guns with tripods, pistol grips, etc all look stupid anyway. (Most people buying these guns are doing it because they look “bad ass”). Let’s get minimum gun weights on the books, as well as minimum barrel lengths. I thought I was on to something really novel the other day when I proposed minimum trigger weights and pull lengths (which would effectively limit how quickly someone could fire a semiautomatic weapon).
We can do lots with new gun laws, but my fear is that we stop there, and fail everyone.
Put the gun topic aside for a minute and tell me what else we’re going to do?
129 – So what do you suggest we ban here, matches?
NJ mom set home on fire, killed son in murder-suicide: cops
A blaze that killed a New Jersey mother and her 3-year-old son is now being investigated as a murder-suicide, authorities said.
According to officials, the bodies of 32-year-old Katherine Halverson and son, Jeremy Scott McDonald Jr., were found inside their charred Scotch Plains home Tuesday.
Investigators initially believed it was an accidental blaze but announced Thursday that evidence suggests that Halverson shut herself and the child inside a 2nd floor bedroom in the home and lit the fire herself.
The New Jersey mother, who was reportedly in the middle of a heated custody battle, allegedly “placed material, like rags, in front of the door then poured an accelerant on the rags and lit them on fire,” Scotch Plains Police Chief Brian Mahoney said in a statement.
The family dog was also found dead inside the home.
132: PETA is going to be upset.
Thank you for laying that out. I appreciate it.
Newtown isn’t – IMHO – spurring feel good legislation ideas. People have been trying to do many of these things you mention (and we have had an assault weapon ban, as you know) for years only to be slapped down by the NRA lobby. Your views seem to be in-line with most of the polling of gun owners, which falls way short of the extreme NRA leadership views. Responsible gun owners seem to be fine with responsible gun restrictions and legislation. The NRA views are extreme. Gun manufacturing fill the coffers of NRA more than gun owners and they want more gun sales, period.
I don’t follow you on why new gun regulations are failures but new gun laws are not. I may be missing something obvious. Please explain.
As far as the mental health database…
“Thirty states (including Virginia) now either authorize or require reporting mental health records to the National Instant Criminal Background Check System, or NICS. Those are the states in dark red below. Another eight states, in lighter red, authorize or require reporting of mental health records to a separate, state-level database.
Each state law has a bit of a different flavor to it. Alabama, for example, only requires reporting of an involuntarily commitment if there is “evidence that the person has a history of inappropriate use of firearms or poses a threat to use firearms inappropriately.” In Hawaii, health-care providers and public health authorities are responsible for providing information in cases where the county police chief requests it. Illinois requires immediate reporting to the state police when a person has been adjudicated as a “mental defective,” as defined by federal regulations.
Creating a national database, Nichols says, would be a difficult task to pull off, and not just because of the “nation’s refusal” that LaPierre cited.
The federal government does not have the constitutional authority to require state agencies to report data. The most it can do is offer funding — or withhold dollars — in an attempt to entice states to participate, just as they did with the law after the Virginia Tech shooting.
132 – I defer to Brian:
Brian says:
December 21, 2012 at 3:24 pm
The difference is the objects designed purpose.
135
It seems to me that 99.999999% of the scary looking weapons that are bought and used each year are not used in school shooting or other tragedies.
How are they being used?
Perhaps, you’re wrong about their designed purpose.
(134)
“The federal government does not have the constitutional authority to…”
Doesn’t stop them from doing any of the other blatantly unlawful sh*t they currently do.
joyce [114]
Decide what? Whether their first grader rides on a schoolbus? I’d been trying to say that there is no 100% safe place in the world, and if a shift from 99.99999% safety to 99.999995% requires huge investment and carries potential risks (kiddo stealing a handgun from the armed teacher, and from there onwards…), maybe we get a better ROI from paying more attention to the psychiatric patients then from arming and deputizing random school staff.
cobbler,
No argument from me. Couldn’t agree more that no place is perfectly safe.
I said let the individuals ‘decide’ meaning if some school wants to have medal detectors or armed guards, it’s up to them. If as a parent you feel the school is not safe enough, find one that is more to your liking.
Joyce 119 exactly, you can walk into a crowed mall, supermarket, church with containers of gas and do just as much damage
I agree with you two. Even if there was an armed guard, I question if he would have stopped a looney like the Newtown killer. So we cut the massacres in half, but increase the accidental deaths by how many once you add 300,000 guns to where there currently are zero? You also must account for the increase in massacres that will result in non school locations.
If we just wrap all the kids in me Kevlar bubble wrap we will be fine. Grim while they are all worthy suggestions it just puts on a slippery slope. I have a target rifle with an 8 ounce pull, do I have to get rid of that. Sure you can limit magazine capacity but anyway you slice it a gun is still a gun.
The real problem lies with people and as.long as we exist there is never going to be a 100% safe place.
I think we are still pretty safe!
We should start by arming every person in Montclair to see what happens.
grim, how much hands-on training does NJ require?
Nada. Not so much as a demonstration that you know how to properly load right? I think any new legislation is absurd unless it includes mandatory training.
Question: if you are not currently employed, how does the state handle your application to own? Does it vary town by town? I assume it would violate some sort of discrimination laws if stay-at-home moms were not allowed to apply?
#47 grim,
“NRA throws down the gauntlet, cop in every school.”
Did these guys hire Romney’s campaign staff? Talk about delivering an off the mark message. The NRA should be looking to side step and deflect, but they stand up and deliver a belligerent off key message.
My biggest question is , who he was talking about? Mortal Kombat and Natural born K1llers? Is he criticizing me for spending a lot of nights in the early 90s playing Duke Nukem, listening to NWA, and X rated MUD conversations with the lovely ladies of MHC Comp Sci dept.?
http://www.incgamers.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/531973-duke1_04_super.png
Anyone play the Star Wars mud Kobra at Tudelft?
#53 Lib/Gator
Big congratulations!
When they told you that, “two can live as cheaply as one!” The small print reads “excludes children”
#86 Grim
“the proposal is being discounted because it came from the NRA”
Its being discounted because its nuts on its own steam.
#95 Joyce
Which is a very good reason why we need to get out of there ASAP? 2014 can’t come soon enough to finish these wars.
#98 grim (I’m not having a go a you”
“And why is it that a police officer in a school is a bad idea again?”
Its not a bad idea, it is a very good one. When I came to this country and found out about 20 and out I really couldn’t understand it.
While I get that a cop or firefighter can’t be on the front line all their life. Why not retire them to the back office where they can run programs in schools or the outreach programs. They can man the state fairs, check on the elderly or sit at a desk doing paperwork. We see a lot of cops retiring with 30+ years of service, why the early out?
#135 joyce,
It seems to me that 99.999999% of the scary looking weapons that are bought and used each year are not used in school shooting or other tragedies.
Here is where that argument breaks down. Do you remember the Columbia Space Shuttle disaster? The shuttle burned up on reentry as one tile had come lose as put a hole in the leading edge of the wing. Your argument is saying that “but all the rest of the tiles stayed in place!”
Yes that is true and the issue is not with the majority of the tiles. What is needed here is checks and balances to ensure that the one tile doesn’t come off in the first place. But someone has been out there saying for years that those checks would suppress the tiles rights to be a real tile!
Fab [151];
Your analogy makes no sense. You’re mixing engineering with social policy.
Besides, you’re saying that because a tile failed on the Columbia we should ban all tiles and I can’t use them in my bathroom or kitchen?
Fab [149];
2014 can’t come soon enough to finish these wars.
Is that the year that his O-nesses’ “Good War” ends? If only we could get those damn neocons out of the White house, right?
One of the most interesting aspects of this is the 2nd amendment and the implications. Stripping out all the misinformation over the years, it comes down to this. I’m not an expert, but this is my interpretation.
Up until DC vs Heller in 2008 an individual did not have the right to bear arm.
That right was held at the state level to create a militia with ordinary citizens with their own arms.
So now the citizen has the right to bear arms in common use for lawful purposes.
Self Defense is a lawful purpose so the argument is what arms should be classified for this common purpose.
Do you need 5o Cal for self-defense?
No, but where do you draw the line.
Now we are at a point were if a state can prove a need for a 50Cal, that right automatically will pass to the individual.
For me the Roberts court went beyond and bestowed a State right on an individual and I suspect in future years that it will be used to argue to extend the “common use” clause to more and more classes of weapon. Its just going to get worse
#152 Moose
No, If that tile had been on the trailing edge of the wing it would not have been catastrophic so no-one would have cared and the Status Quo would have continued. Its only with teh catastrophic failure that change really happens.
#153 Moose
If only the Neocons hadn’t dug us into it!
#146 Lib
In my day Imperial college in the UK was the big European hub.
Fabius,
149
We will leave the Middle East just like we left Germany, Japan, Vietnam, etc etc etc
151/152
Stop with the b.s. It’s just cause you and others personally do not like guns for whatever reason. You’re analogy is crap. Moose is dead on. You’re analysis of the 2nd amendment is laughable to say the least. You have no clue and apparently no appreciation for what is supposed to be a free society. “Up until Heller, an individual did not have the right…” Are you kidding me? Natural and unalienable rights, please read up on them.
The second amendment was supposed to codify individuals defense from tyranny. It’s that simple. Whether from foreign attack or our own government becoming corrupt, an armed populace is our last chance.
Oh, and one more thing.
(146)
Obama is the biggest neocon ever. Look at his actions not his words, obviously.
Thanks for all the well wishes all. Baby is happy. Time for some sleep.
Say you’re thinking of buying a gun. You want something that could provide self defense in your home. Maybe you’d like to hunt deer once in a while. Also, you’d like something that would be useful just in case you needed it against a tyrannical government. You need it to be legal in NJ.
What gun do you buy?
#158 Joyce
“Stop with the b.s. It’s just cause you and others personally do not like guns for whatever reason”
I like guns, I don’t have a problem with guns. I see a place in society for guns and “responsible ownership” and I like the taste of Venison!
If you want a 357 Magnum with “Clint is my Baby Daddy!” on it, go for it! If you want single-action or double-action revolvers, pump-action, bolt-action, or lever-action firearms, to slake your 2nd amendment rights, I don’t have a problem with it.
You want a a mechanism powered by the previous shot?, then I start having an issues and I want gun control. That’s what it comes down to!
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#158 Redux
I have been to Vietnam, twice, lovely country.
Brian,
Just 70 years ago, one generation, over 100,000 americans were put in internment camps and, shockingly, the federal government determined that its own actiosn were constitutional.
And currently, the federal government just said they have the authority to detain anyone indefinitely and kill anyone after a secret discussion.
Yup, no concern there at all.
162,
Fabius,
Why do the police need those weapons?
Take the lobbyists out of government and maybe govt would not be half bad.
Stu, Congrats! The Madlooters have been very productive the past few months :)
I have as many guns as I need, but not as many as I want.
Phil Gramm
It was a serious question.
161, 170
AR-15 or one of its variants (A4, A2, M4)
AK-47 variant such as Saiga .223
Kel-Tec SU-16A
SKS
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