“The days of liberal lending are over”

From the Record:

Falling appraisals hurt deals

The buyer agreed to pay $890,000 for a Wyckoff town house.

But the appraiser said the property was worth only $840,000. Spooked by the lower valuation, the buyer cut her offer to $825,000, and the deal fell apart.

“She was terrified of overpaying,” said the buyer’s real estate agent, Rita Lutzer of Re/Max Legend in Mahwah. The buyer, who asked that her name be kept private, said, “I was not willing to go above the appraised value. Absolutely not.”

This is just one of a number of recent North Jersey property deals affected by low appraisals. Realtors, lenders and appraisers say that in a volatile market, it’s not always easy to tell what a house is worth.

“We’re in uncertain times,” said appraiser James Minaya of Montvale.

The complex dynamic between appraisals and the slower housing market is playing out in a number of ways:

Houses sold under duress and for below-market prices — for example, by homeowners struggling to make the mortgage payments — are starting to pull down values of similar houses nearby, because appraisers base their estimates on recent neighborhood sales.

Anxious sellers are lowering their prices, even after the contract is signed, when appraisals come up short of the price the buyer agreed to pay.

Lenders are now asking appraisers to consider sales of comparable properties only within the past three months, rather than six months, because the market is changing so rapidly.

A slower market means that appraisers have fewer recent sales to compare.

“Lenders are scrutinizing the appraisals to a much greater extent than they had in the past,” said Marc Schwartz, a partner in Globe Mortgage America in Englewood.

Lenders require appraisals to make sure they don’t risk writing a loan for more than a property is worth, since in mortgages, the house is the collateral. Typically, the lender agrees to lend 80 percent of either the sale price or the appraised value, whichever is lower, Schwartz said.

“The days of liberal lending are over,” Schwartz said. “It’s very conservative lending, and the appraisal is one component.”

But what, exactly, is a house worth? You could find a North Jersey house that sold for $200,000 in the 1990s and is now on the market for $400,000. What’s the real value?

Real estate professionals like to say that a property is worth whatever a buyer is willing to pay and a seller is willing to take. But in some recent cases, appraisers are rejecting that number.

Daphne Sidiropoulos of Platinum Coast Appraisals in Upper Saddle River, for example, recently valued a Fort Lee town house for $38,000 less than its sale price of $600,000. She based her valuation on three recent sales of similar town houses in the same complex.

“All the sales I found were under the purchase price,” said Sidiropoulos, stressing that this was a rare occurrence, and that almost all appraisals support the sale price.

Randy Douglass of ERA Douglass in Montvale recently had a deal where the buyer and seller signed a contract at $692,500. But the appraiser valued the property at $685,000. The seller reluctantly cut the price.

It’s not easy for homeowners to hear that their house is worth less than they thought. Bonnie Nach of Sullivan Appraisal Services in Oakland says a homeowner recently screamed at her after she valued his town house at $450,000 — based on recent sales in his complex — rather than the $500,000 he thought it was worth.

“They think they’re living in 2005, when you could sell your house for whatever you wanted,” Nach said. “And everybody thinks they have the nicest house on the block — everybody.”

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111 Responses to “The days of liberal lending are over”

  1. James Bednar says:

    From the New York Times:

    Rentals’ New Lease on Life

    TWO new rental towers have opened here in the past few weeks on either side of the newly rebuilt Grove Street PATH station, with what their developers view as excellent timing.

    Even as condominium sales have slowed in this commuter haven and in neighboring Hoboken, according to market reports, these rental units with condo-quality amenities are getting a fervent response, developers say.

    At Grove Pointe, which opened on Aug. 10, nearly a third of the 458 apartments were leased within three weeks, said Jonathan Kushner, a principal of SK Properties, the developer.

    “Dozens of people from our wait list showed up to claim their apartments before the grand opening,” he said. “People are really excited about the chance to live in a rental building that offers the kind of urban sophistication more commonly found across the river.”

    The adjacent 50 Columbus opened just last weekend, with more than 700 names on a list of people expressing interest in its 400 units, said David Barry, president of the Applied Development Company, a joint developer with Panepinto Properties. Seventy-four leases were signed in the first few days, said Mr. Barry.

    The buildings, which both have addresses on Christopher Columbus Drive because they are situated at that road’s intersection with Grove Street, are bringing significant change to the previously shabby Grove Street area, said Mayor Jerramiah T. Healy.

    Mr. Barry called the area “probably the most underappreciated location on the whole Gold Coast” of New Jersey right now.

  2. sas says:

    “We’re in uncertain times,” said appraiser James Minaya of Montvale.

    Finally…. an appraiser who is not a chicken neck. Well, at least for this article anyways.


  3. sas says:

    “Mr. Barry called the area “probably the most underappreciated location on the whole Gold Coast” of New Jersey right now”

    Mr. Barry, the gold coast has lost its glitter, no more propaganda!


  4. BC Bob says:

    “LONDON, Sept 16 (Reuters) – Embattled British bank Northern Rock (NRK.L: Quote, Profile , Research) is preparing for a sell-off that could see its 100 billion pound mortgage portfolio divided between the country’s other major banks, the Sunday Telegraph said.”

    “The newspaper said a plan under discussion between government and Bank of England officials was effectively a private sector rescue of the lender, involving other banks and the central bank.”

    “If the run on deposits looks out of control, Northern Rock would effectively be nationalised and put into administration so it could be wound down,” the paper quoted an official as saying.


  5. BC Bob says:

    “It’s not easy for homeowners to hear that their house is worth less than they thought.”

    If you can condition Pavlov’s dog, there is a slight chance the same can occur for NNJ home sellers.

  6. Essex says:

    I’m with ya Bob….neighbor down the street is selling at almost $600k….4 BR 2 BA…nothing special…IMHO.

    It’s been really quiet there……..*crickets*

  7. Frank says:

    Real-estate agents were very busy yesterday, listing 100 properties across the state and inventory hit another all time high of 100,100 units. Sellers need to act fast before their neighbor drops the price by 20%.

  8. Bloodbath in Winter 2007 says:

    Regarding Northern Rock … anyone think an online bank such as ING could POSSIBLY see something like that happen?

    I think cash will be king, but damn if i’m going to stockpile cash in my rental apt …

  9. Essex says:

    Hunker down…it should be a fascinating winter.

  10. lisoosh says:

    Had eye on overpriced listing at $400k for over 6 months. Listing dropped off month ago and just reappeared with new realtor at $425, with probably worse marketing than before and nothing done to house (which needs lots of work).

    Odd. Then again this realtor seems to have a lot of overpriced listings, perhaps she has been trying to scoop up business by promising the moon. Silly moo.

  11. BC Bob says:

    “Sellers need to act fast before their neighbor drops the price by 20%.”

    Frank [7],

    Indeed. Just part of a normal boom/bust cycle. Buyers were racing to open houses and bidding up properties. Now the pendulum has completely turned. It is now a race to the bottom.

  12. sas says:

    Gold above $700.
    oil at $80/barrel.

    Going to be an interesting week.


  13. BC Bob says:

    Bloodbath [8],

    Never in my wildest dreams would I think that I would actually witness a run on a bank. I thought that was strictly for the history books/movies. Then again, when I was scraping nickels together, to put down 20% on my first RE purchase, I would never have imagined that investors would actually bid up prices for a depreciating roof attached to 4 walls.

  14. BC Bob says:

    sas [12],

    Don’t forget a dollar blown away to oblivion, now below a 20 year trend line.

  15. njrebear says:

    Nother rock online savings site is still down. I don’t think its a ‘technical glich’ LOL.


    Unfortunately, the system is currently very busy.

    We apologise for any inconvenience caused and ask that you try again later.

    Thank you for your patience in this matter.

    Close Window

  16. Pat says:

    Bob, I’m thinking two more of these by November.

    Is the extra .5 worth it on Countrywide?

  17. Mitchell says:

    They should call it The Lemmings Market. So many people running for no apparent reason and right towards the cliff.

  18. gary says:

    BC Bob #14,

    And a defeated and ball-less Bernanke will cave in and reduce the dollar even further on Tuesday afternoon. Hey Mr. Bernanke, what about that inflation you were talking about?

  19. BC Bob says:

    Gary [18],

    The fed has already cut. The avg ffr since Aug 10 has been 4.96%, 29 basis points below their official target. Unofficial reports have money supply up 50% in the past two weeks. Not a typo, 50%.

    Greenspan tonight on 60 minutes. He’s no dummy, he is trying to distance himself from this mess. He’s throwing the hot potato to anybody within arm’s length. It’s funny, for some reason he now speaks in plain English.

    Pat [16],

    I can’t argue your point[2 more by Nov]. If anything, you may be conservative.

    Countryslide and an extra .5? Not for me.

  20. Rentingin NJ says:

    Houses sold under duress and for below-market prices — for example, by homeowners struggling to make the mortgage payments — are starting to pull down values of similar houses nearby

    There houses aren’t being sold for below market value, they are setting the new market values

  21. Sean says:

    Not that the appraiser are without fault in the real estate run up but they did complain for YEARS to the FED about the unfair practices of the lenders who apply pressure on appraisers to hit or exceed a predetermined value.


    Those 9,300 petitioners complaints apparently fell on deaf ears.

  22. BC Bob says:

    Sean [21],

    I may have missed it. Do you know what date that was forwarded to the fed?

  23. Bloodbath in Winter 2007 says:

    All the folks who keep pumping up NC as a destination .. what about Pennsylvania? Specifically, Bucks County? Per mapquest, it only seems like about an hour (65 miles) from NYC, and you can get more home than the crap in Bergen County for HALF the price. There are places for 400k that are 3,000 sq feet, on 1.25 acres. That will easily run you a million in overpriced, overtaxed BC.

    Speaking of taxes … taxes in bucks county (per that previous link JB sent this week) are half of what they are in Bergen County.

    *Disclaimer: NEver been to Bucks county, don’t even know anyone who lives there.

  24. New Investor says:


    Bucks County is pretty nice, but it’s pretty remote from most of NJ. Taken on it’s own, it’s nice, but to commute to a NJ job would be pretty torturous.

  25. New Investor says:

    Oh and it’s way more than an hour to NYC. Traffic on Rt 202 gets pretty bad, especially during rush hour.

    I’m sure Clot can add his opinion of the Bucks County RE situation as well since his geographical area is nearby.

  26. Essex says:

    My take on BUCKS co. is completely positive…as it is on Berks Co. PA is a great place for the more home for less money equation….No doubt that we in Northern NJ are getting royally screwed — between taxes, crappy services/bad roads, and corrupt politicians….it is a wonder any of us actually choose to live here. That being said…there’s no place like home!

  27. syncmaster says:

    I know lots of people who commute to NJ jobs in Somerset & Hunterdon counties from homes in Northampton and Lehigh counties in PA. Among the ones I know, all of them moved out there from Union/Middlesex counties in NJ.

    Not one of them regrets it.

    Whenever I visit a friend in the Allentown area though, I can’t imagine doing that drive every day, twice a day. But then again I live in Middlesex county and have never had to drive more than 25 minutes to get to work. I guess that’s the upside of living in a crowded, congested area like this.

  28. BC Bob says:

    Dear Customer

    May I begin by offering you my sincere apologies for any inconvenience you have suffered in dealing with Northern Rock during the last few days. Customer service is of paramount importance to us and due to the circumstances that surround us, you have been let down. Thank you so much for your patience, particularly when using our website which has been running very slowly due to the number of people working online.

    Let me now reassure you. Your money is safe with us and if you want some, or all of it back, then you are perfectly entitled to it. Whilst you may have to wait a little longer than usual to receive it, you will get it. However, your savings are secure and there is no need for you to withdraw your money based on our recent announcement, and the widespread media coverage that has ensued. The Bank of England has agreed to provide a funding facility to enable us to manage through the current global liquidity crisis. They would not have done so, if we were not a solvent, adequately capitalised, well run bank. I hope this helps to reassure you.

    Your custom is very important to us and I sincerely hope you choose to stay with us along with the vast majority of our customer base.

    Yours sincerely

    Adam J Applegarth
    Chief Executive

    16 September 2007

  29. honest-realtor says:

    a lot of people here are RE-haters. You forgot RE as a huge business, forms the core pillar of the economy. Most of the realtors are truth telling and hard working joes like those living next to you. The NJ-NY metro has survived very well during the recent media rampage on subprime mess. The price will continue to hold well before they start to climb again in 2008. Don’t miss the golden opp.

  30. Essex says:

    #29…step right up ladies and gentlemen…step right up…get your mediocre interest rate/high cost POS cape….we’ll even toss in a free window unit a/c….who needs central air! Or a garage…come one come all…to the greatest show on earth! Low taxes~!

  31. sas says:

    NAR propaganda in full bloom.

    NAR has alot of ads running during the NFL football games.

  32. BC Bob says:

    honest [29],

    “a lot of people here are RE-haters.”

    Not true. I was a RE bull from 1985-2004/05. Simply, I decided to take the other side of the trade when it became re.com.

    “You forgot RE as a huge business, forms the core pillar of the economy.”

    Very true. I didn’t forget this. Why the hell do you think I’m looking for a bunker?

  33. dreamtheaterr says:

    Staying in PA and commuting to NJ made sense when gas was at a buck and change. At $3, it negates the lower property tax you now pay. And don’t forget the road rage as you crawl 2 hrs each way in traffic on Rte 80 and Rte 78. And the extra 18,000 miles on your car each year means you’ll need to replace it more frequently.

  34. T.J. says:

    honest-realtor Says:
    September 16th, 2007 at 3:00 pm
    a lot of people here are RE-haters.

    I do not think most people here are “RE-haters” rather RE-Analysts. Sadly, I guess you believe that anyone who thinks an asset price will trend downwards is a “hater”. Well congratulations, great logic. Speaking of logic, if you are going to come on here and pipe up about RE stabalization and growth, show us the facts, like all the other RE-Analysts errr..haters on here do. Oh, almost forgot, the NAR does not use facts, just propoganda. Let me help you out here, while all of the successful realtors of the world are adapting to this market, and there are plenty them on njrereport, you and all of the other realtor sheep who read your NAR newsletters like the bible are doomed and will be selling magazines or doing recruiting come this time next year. So go grab an Econ101 book, educated yourself and post some facts.

  35. Frank says:

    Q. What sucks more, the RE market or the Giants?

  36. Essex says:

    32.“You forgot RE as a huge business, forms the core pillar of the economy.”

    Very true. I didn’t forget this. Why the hell do you think I’m looking for a bunker?

    Damn straight. It is hunker down and watch your ass time. Some people have been doing it for a while, but this year will be particularly interesting. Political climate is a wild card….economy tanking….UGH

  37. Bloodbath in Winter 2007 says:

    I don’t hate real estate at all. A large portion of the 20% i’m going to put down on a my next house – one that i buy for 30% off its initial asking price – was made in one RE flip in 05/06.

    It takes too much energy to hate. Thanks to this board, I’ve been able to navigate the market as it descends into an abyss.

    My mantra for the next six months – patience.

  38. 1987 Condo Buyer says:

    Looks like the Giants..

  39. gary says:

    Giants were horrible!

  40. Bloodbath in Winter 2007 says:


    If the realtor who posted earlier was looking to ‘blame the media’ (what a joke that is) feel free to use this as ammo.

    All the upheaval has turned lenders cautious, said Christopher J. Mayer, a professor of real estate, finance and economics at Columbia University. “We’re really seeing a real pullback in credit,” he said. “If that doesn’t reverse itself in the coming weeks and months, we’re going to see a sharp decline in the housing market.”

    With prices falling, home sellers might have to accept lower prices than they had hoped for, Professor Mayer said. People who had planned to refinance might find themselves with fewer options for a new loan or, in the worst case, none at all, he said. Buyers might find it tougher to qualify for a mortgage. Even people with good credit might find that lenders are demanding more documentation or eyeing their home appraisal more carefully.

  41. BC Bob says:

    Giants? Giants and subprime, perfect together.

  42. BC Bob says:

    What doesn’t suck? Chief of Police pay in NNJ.

    “The police chief of Englewood Cliffs makes about $197,000 a year — more than the top cop from Houston, the fourth largest city in the United States”

    “All North Jersey towns have populations less than 45,000, with the exception of Clifton, North Bergen, Paterson, Passaic and Wayne, according to the 2000 Census. But their chiefs’ salaries – even in towns with fewer than 10,000 residents and about 20 officers – far exceed the national average. They did in 2003, too, when the federal statistics were compiled.”

    “New York City’s Police Commissioner Raymond Kelly will earn a base salary of more than $170,000 for leading a force in the nation’s largest metropolis, according to a department spokeswoman. Not only does he oversee the policing of five counties and more than 8 million people, Kelly is also responsible for ensuring that terrorists do not strike New York again.”


  43. CAIBC says:

    RE will be up in 2008? honest realtor – i dont see how your prediction can come true….are you seeing demand go up? are you seeing prices stay steady or even going up? remember its always followed some sort of parabolic curve – thats just how it comes out…as far as i can tell, we are still on the downward trend on the latest trend curve. besides, you realtors seem to forget the affordability factor…..the middle class cannot afford these prices – plain and simple…those that overextended hoping your NAR prediction of continuing higher prices are trying to keep their head above water…
    i tried explaining this to a realtor i saw during an open house today and she told me that its not about affordability – its about ‘market demand’ – market demand? who is controlling market demand? its comes back to affordability…
    we have overextended ourselves as a nation and now we are going to pay for it dearly…China is going to come knocking for its money back and we will have to put up something in collateral since we have no money – hey how about that Mercedees you bought from lying to all those poor people that shouldnt have bought a house in the first place!

  44. Bloodbath in Winter 2007 says:

    BC Bob – In my year-plus time on this site, this is clearly the most disgusting article I’ve read. It virtually seals it – we won’t be moving to NJ. (Unless we can get a steal on a foreclosed house this winter.)

    I suggest everyone read that article about police officers ridiculously bloated salaries.

    And then try to become one!

  45. James Bednar says:

    Visited 9 open houses today.

    Covered Short Hills, Millburn, Chatham, Mendham, and Bernardsville.

    Talked with most every agent, some longer than others. Not surprisingly, only two of them stood out as outstanding, one of which I’d highly recommend. My wife and I talked about the market with one agent for mroe than a half hour. All of the agents mentioned weakness in the market, prices falling, etc. None had a particularly positive outlook on the market. One mentioned that she was having good success with “aggressive pricing”, but mentioned that many sellers needed considerable re-education to get to that point. More than one agent described current pricing as “greedy”. Others noted that they themselves would be look for investment properties if prices fell dramatically.


  46. James Bednar says:

    I was surprised at the number of open houses today. Also, anecdotally, there seems to have been a surge in FSBO properties lately.


  47. Pat says:

    OT..I saw a link to a blog analyzer on another site. The analyzer said this blog is of most interest to rich men.

    What is up with that? I thought this was the chick-magnet site and but all the guys on this site were underpaid and overworked?

    The foreclosures and REOs over here in PA are showing up in the papers. Lower-middle class neighborhoods are taking a hit. Big percentage of posted transactions are bank buys in Levittown, PA.

    I’ve been watching how long it takes the trends to hit NNJ from over here. Last Thanksgiving, I started seen list prices at 15-20% off 2005 highs. NNJ started in the Spring. You guys are on a five to six month lag, it seems.

    The trend is very interesting.

  48. James Bednar says:

    From the Financial Times (Hat tip to Calculated Risk):

    Greenspan alert on US house prices

    US house prices are likely to fall significantly from their present levels, Alan Greenspan has told the Financial Times, admitting that there was a bubble in the US housing market.

    In an interview ahead of the release on Monday of his widely-anticipated memoirs, the former chairman of the Federal Reserve said the decline in house prices “is going to be larger than most people expect”.

    But Mr Greenspan said that his successors at the Fed – who meet on Tuesday to set interest rates – would have to be careful not to ease rates too aggressively, because the risk of an “inflationary resurgence” was greater now than when he was Fed chief.

    Mr Greenspan said he would expect “as a minimum, large single-digit” percentage declines in US house prices from peak to trough and added that he would not be surprised if the fall was “in double digits”.

    Mr Greenspan said house prices were probably already down about 2-3 per cent from their peak on a national level.

    However, he cautioned that it was very difficult to predict how large the ultimate decline would be.

    As Fed chairman, Mr Greenspan had talked about “froth” in the housing sector, but never said there was a bubble in the market as a whole. His successor Ben Bernanke has also avoided the word “bubble”.

    But Mr Greenspan told the FT that froth “was a euphemism for a bubble”.

    He said he still thought froth – a collection of bubbles – was a better description, because of the variation in house price appreciation in different local housing markets. But he said “all the froth bubbles add up to an aggregate bubble”.

    The former Fed chairman said the current turmoil in financial markets was “an accident waiting to happen”.

  49. Essex says:

    #47. Pat, define ‘rich’…..(LOL)

  50. Bloodbath in Winter 2007 says:

    JB – any agents make a mention of the impending flood of foreclosures?

  51. Essex says:

    Are the foreclosures really properties that you would ‘want’….are these prime properties that are well maintained or are they just crap…tough to generalize, but worth a thought.

  52. BC Bob says:

    Bloodbath [44],

    It’s a joke/travesty that the Police Chief in Rutherford, NJ, earns more than Raymond Kelly.

  53. Pat says:

    Yes, Essex, they’re properties I’d want….at 99 prices.

    Ten of them. I’d even do 99 rent on them and smile as I walked away.

  54. BC Bob says:

    “Yes, Essex, they’re properties I’d want….at 99 prices.”


    Prince, or whatever he calls himself/it these days; “Party like its 1999”

  55. Pat says:

    I have a long list of tenents that I got right from the Bucks Co. Sheriff’s sale site. I’m sure I could get them in a home in their kid’s same school, if I could get them in at 99 rents so they could make the envelope postmarked by the 5th.

    Fix the whole mess, I would.

  56. Essex says:

    I’m thinking Raymond Kelly is gonna ask for a raise soon….doubt the morons here in NJ will be able to affect the Police Chiefs pay…or that of any other ranking official.

  57. Bloodbath in Winter 2007 says:

    Tough to tell about the foreclosures … won’t know until they come on the market. But if you recall, millions of folks got greedy and moved into houses WELL ABOVE THEIR MEANS.

    I see this as people reaching for houses outside of their normal price range … my guess is, a lot of houses that would be 500-600k will be flooding the market in Nov/Dec/Jan.

    Naturally, the goal is to get one of these for 400k. I mentioned it this week – see if you can buddy up with a foreclosure lawyer. I don’t know if it’ll work, BUT the people who have made a career out of foreclosures will see the best stuff first (or so i’ve read/been told).

  58. Bloodbath in Winter 2007 says:

    Forgot to ask .. BC BOb …

    * how on earth can NJ do-away with all these police perks? Can anything be done? I’d say stuff like the clothing budget and car allotment must immediately go … and salaries must be scaled back TREMENDOUSLY.

    The size of these towns and their police staffs is so disproportionate it’s laughable.

    Doesn’t the Gov see how terrible this is for the state’s future?

  59. Rentingin NJ says:

    Greenspan on 60 Minutes tonight

    “The flattening in home prices is just beginning… prices will fall further”

  60. Frank says:

    If the Fed cuts rates on Tuesday, they will loose the little bit of credibility that they still have. After the 60 minutes interview, they have almost none with me. It’s all a big political joke.

  61. BC Bob says:

    “Doesn’t the Gov see how terrible this is for the state’s future?”


    How can he see anything when his head is halfway up Carla’s …?

  62. Justin says:

    Don’t miss your chance at a deal of a century :-)


    On September 14, 15 and 16 you can get the Deal of the Century from K. Hovnanian® Homes™ and our family of builders. Our locations across the country are offering unprecedented savings for 72 hours. Act Now!


  63. James Bednar says:

    Too late…


  64. Justin says:


    If you actually go through all the links, there is no deal what-so-ever; just links you to the standard website. What a load….

  65. rhymingrealtor says:


    Well I’ll be Oh’ing for the next couple weeks, maybe I’ll see ya (:


  66. James Bednar says:

    I didn’t get it.


  67. BeechSt says:


    Stayed closed to home today. Hit Cedar Grove and Verona.

    Bunch of capes right off Pompton behind the Burger King for sale. They all want 400k+ for a 50 year house with original bathrooms, kitchens, etc. Saw some nice homes in the 400 – 500 range in Verona but they are still over priced.

    Had similar experiences with the Realtors. This time last year I hearing that I better make an offer today becuase they are others ready to. This year, I’m the 3rd person on the sign in sheet at 2:45 and am hearing to make “agressive” or “reasonable” offers.

    Any one else visit open houses?

  68. Clotpoll says:

    BC (4)-

    This whole Northern Rock debacle spells doom for Newcastle, my favorite English Premier League soccer team.

    They are a mean, big-spending gang of thugs…a la the Oakland Raiders. Alas, I think a roster dump may be coming.

  69. Clotpoll says:

    Bath (8)-

    Go outside. Take a nice walk. Buy an ice cream.

    We’re in a credit crunch. It’s not 1929. My Mom remembers 1929, and she still has all her marbles. She saw what happened then, and she knows what’s going on now. Take it from her…things aren’t THAT bad.

  70. Clotpoll says:

    lisoosh (10)-

    Time to do the croc/wildebeest thing, a la Nature Channel.

  71. Clotpoll says:

    New (25)-

    Bucks Co is a great place to live. It’s a treasure trove of arts, cool people and great places. You just gotta be self-employed or some kind of reverse commuter to make it work.

  72. profuscious says:

    re: Greenspan

    admitting that he was full of shite when he testified on the hill.

    Federal Reserve : Credibility :: ’83 Ford Mustang : Reliable Vehicle

  73. BC Bob says:

    “This whole Northern Rock debacle spells doom for Newcastle, my favorite English Premier League soccer team.”

    Clot [69],

    No problem, IPO. Like the Celtics.

  74. Clotpoll says:

    Frank (35)-

    Jints, no doubt about it.

  75. Justin says:

    “This whole Northern Rock debacle spells doom for Newcastle, my favorite English Premier League soccer team.”

    Newcastle Amber is great, too bad the team stinks. Go Chelsea!

  76. Clotpoll says:

    BC (74)-

    Unlike the Celts, the Newcastle side will never be handed over to the likes of a Doc Rivers.

    Come to think of it, I can’t think of a soccer coach anywhere in the world who you could compare to Doc Rivers. Soccer coaches have to earn licenses and demonstrate competence.

    Rivers will screw up the Celtics, no doubt about it. I guarantee you that at some time this season, Garnett will play the point.

  77. Pat says:

    “We’re in a credit crunch.”


    “A cut in US interest rates at this juncture will only be effective if the current problem is a temporary lack of liquidity, not a credit crisis.”

    I disagree. In either case, a cut will be ineffective until we agree upon some asset valuations and understand the full risk and asset repricing. I don’t care how cheap money is. I ain’t buying sh*t until I’m positive the sewer plant is fully operational.

  78. Clotpoll says:

    Justin (76)-


  79. Justin says:

    #79 Clot:

    They are just a ‘special’ team, you wouldn’t understand :-)

    If I were a frontrunner, I’d like Man U! I’m just a huge fan of Petr Cech, best keeper I’ve ever seen.

  80. Rentingin NJ says:

    In my year-plus time on this site, this is clearly the most disgusting article I’ve read. It virtually seals it – we won’t be moving to NJ.

    I read the article. You are right. It is disgusting. The worst part is the sense of entitlement.

    This is definitely a factor in considering a move away from NJ.

  81. BC Bob says:

    “I didn’t really get it until very late in 2005 and 2006.”

    From # 66

    Obviously he wasn’t on this blog at that time. Back in the day, NJ RE Bubble. I think that was the name of this site at that time.

    His clock must not be ticking correctly. After all, he called the dot com top [irrational exuberance] 4 years early, in 1996??

    Question for Andrea; Does he go to bed hungry and wake up h*rny? Maybe his clock is off by 8 hours?

  82. Bloodbath in Winter 2007 says:

    # Clotpoll Says:
    September 16th, 2007 at 9:27 pm

    Bath (8)-

    Go outside. Take a nice walk. Buy an ice cream.

    We’re in a credit crunch. It’s not 1929. My Mom remembers 1929, and she still has all her marbles. She saw what happened then, and she knows what’s going on now. Take it from her…things aren’t THAT bad.

    Hear ya. However …. it’s always good to be prepared. A bunch of blokes across the pond just got caught with their pants down.

    Would rather not be in that situation. Ever.

  83. Clotpoll says:

    Justin (80)-

    They are a special team. They are, I think, the best team in the world; and, the unselfish way in which they play is a great example to any coach or player. I tell my own kids to watch them every chance they get.

    It’s also no coincidence that they have an owner of unlimited wealth, unlimited taste for more and better players…who has never seen a bid he couldn’t hit.

  84. BC Bob says:

    Pro [73],

    BC, Clemson on a collision course? 11/17 in Death Valley.


  85. Clotpoll says:

    Justin (80)-

    I’d compare them to the Yankees, except there’s no pitchers (to waste vast sums of money on) in soccer…and Steinbrenner is unparalleled in the history of sports in the category of “Unmitigated Jackasses”.

  86. Justin says:

    #84 Clotpoll:

    Although I feel you are being sarcastic :-), they are a great collection of talent (best money can buy). There could be no better choice of a Head Coach. You need someone with a huge ego to boss around a team of egos. A perfect fit for each other.

    The parallels between the early 90s New York Rangers (of the NHL) and the hiring of Keenen could not be more accurate, if you know Hockey.

  87. Pat says:


    Lau Nai-keung
    The author, from Hong Kong, is a member of the National Committee of the Chinese People’s Political Consultative Conference

    “take early action to reduce the loss”
    ” increasing the supply of stocks in the market, both in the mainland and in Hong Kong”
    “maintaining our momentum in the economic storm”
    “It is therefore not too early to kick-start internal consumption.”

    Isn’t this what Paulsen went over to get? Consumer spending up?

  88. Clotpoll says:

    Justin (87)-

    No sarcasm. They are flat-out great. It cannot be denied.

    It’s too bad the US is not a soccer country. They really set the bar for how a professional sports team should be run. The Rangers & Keenan don’t even come close. That team had a short run; Chelsea will be great for years to come.

  89. Clotpoll says:

    BC (85)-

    Clemson needs to get onto that page you linked and get Brent Musburger off of it.

  90. profuscious says:

    bc (85)

    looks like it! Still waiting for the usual Tiger implosion.

    if both teams are undefeated, wow…I might make a trip down to the Esso Club.

    Watched your Matty Ice torch GT last night. That’s one scary QB, do you think he is BC’s best ever?

  91. x-underwriter says:

    Bucks Co is a great place to live. It’s a treasure trove of arts, cool people and great places. You just gotta be self-employed or some kind of reverse commuter to make it work.

    Be careful with Bucks county. People there aren’t always the most open and friendly you’ll ever meet. I know people that have lived there for five years and the next door neighbors are just starting to speak with them. Some haven’t started yet. Otherwise, it’s a beautiful place…just BYOF….bring your own friends. My own personal experience with southeast PA ten years ago is the same.
    As far as jobs go, if you’re not working in the Princeton area or there in Southeast PA, you can’t commute.

  92. profuscious says:

    BC – Clot,

    great story about the rock, 360 view of the hill, DV:


  93. Justin says:

    #89 Clot:

    I was more drawing a parallel between the team and the coach, not the lifeline of the team but I understand your point.

    I don’t think the NHL trade and FA system of those years would allow a team like Chelsea to exist in the NHL. In todays NHL, it’s even worse.

  94. BC Bob says:

    “That’s one scary QB, do you think he is BC’s best ever?”

    Pro [92],

    Come on. That’s sacrilegious. Not close to # 22.

    I don’t know what the Esso Club is? However, I may want in.

  95. BC Bob says:

    Greenspan uttered; “I really didn’t get it”. From that point, gold is up almost $5.00 [from tonight’s low, not Friday’s close]

  96. Clotpoll says:

    Justin (95)-

    Both the players and Abramovich will exhaust Mourinho, but the side will continue to be great, even after he leaves.

  97. Pat says:

    x-underwear, I tend to agree with you about needing an “in” in Bucks.

    If you don’t put yourself out there, you won’t get asked.

    1. Outsiders (like me) who move here don’t move here because of the friendly reputation of the townsfolk or the social life. We move here because it’s convenient and cheaper than Princeton or somewhere else. I met my husband in NJ, not in Bucks. So, if the people like me moving in are not doing it to be social, then how can Bucks be a social place?

    2. Under age 45, Bucks has a bunch of two worker households. Typically, both commute a minimum of 30 minutes each way, ’cause the jobs aren’t here, just the houses. People are busy – socializing takes a back seat to working and raising the family. Often, every other house on a street is empty on summer weekends, as families flee to the shore or to Grandma’s in whatever town they came from.

    3. There’s enough of the fifties/sixties worker bee hometown mentality left so that clubs still exist, which breaks things up socially. You have your Legion Hall, your Elks, you name it. You want instant friends? Join the club. But be prepared for the downside – little pesches running around badmouthing some group or another.

    4. Lack of town centers. I can’t emphasize enough how a town center creates the sense of neighbors. Many areas in Bucks lack that. If you meet someone who says they’re from Lower Makefield, ask them where they go to see their town’s Thanksgiving Parade. They’ll stare blankly at you.

  98. profuscious says:

    BC 96,

    Whoa nelly, the Esso is the watering hole of choice on a gameday, next to the stadium, next to the tailgate fields, and the best place to run into old friends before or after the game. If you make it to Tigertown, this is the spot:


    Let me know if you go, and you’re in like flint.

  99. lurkingrenter says:

    Could someone with MLS access give me the address / DOM and previous sales info on: 2407247

    It looks like it is a flip that is sitting empty but I could be wrong.


  100. dreamtheaterr says:

    #42, what a link about extravagant cop pay.
    So the NJ cops are the ones raping the NJ Exchequer big time….just didn’t know it was THAT bad.

    Good for nothings….. and they never pay for their donuts and coffee at a store anyway. Is their annual raise based on the number of tickets they give out?

    Talking of corruption…. a friend of my friend was pulled over by a cop in Middlesex county, driven to an ATM and made to withdraw $500 in cash in lieu of not getting a traffic ticket. Poor chap thought he was back in his home country dealing with corrupt cops.

    Rant off…..

  101. Clotpoll says:

    lurky (101)-

    That listing is down the street from my house.

    It is a POS flip (flipper didn’t really do much) and has been on the market over a year. It’s also laughably tiny. The word “hut” comes to mind. Multiple agents, multiple listings and re-listings.

    Best of all, 78 is your backyard.

    At 240K, it’s a buy!

  102. x-underwriter says:

    Clotpoll Says:
    September 17th, 2007 at 7:38 am
    It is a POS flip

    That’s funny, I was just showing that listing to my wife last night and saying, look honey that looks just like those places you see on Flip That House

  103. James Bednar says:

    Here is the history for 25 Beaver..

    MLS# 2250542
    Sold 6/2006 – $250,000
    Pre-flip, listed as-is

    MLS# 2319479
    Listed 9/2006 – $369,900
    Reduced to $355,000

    MLS# 2353780
    Listed 12/2006 – $339,000

    MLS# 2406700(Withdrawn)/2407247
    Listed: 5/2007 – $319,900
    Reduced to $299,900

  104. James Bednar says:

    Just for reference, was sold for $165k in 2003.


  105. Comrade 3b says:

    #29 honest; The price will continue to hold well before they start to climb again in 2008. Don’t miss the golden opp.

    Nobody hates real estate, just hatye clueless realtors.

    Prices up in 08?,and you call yourself honest?

    Did you have a problem with the media when they they were cheeerleading the rea estate bubble?

    25% off 05 prices, then we buy, watch and learn honest,we will show you how it is doen.

  106. Arr Elle says:

    #102 Is that allowed? Meaning handing a cop cold hard cash to keep from getting a speeding ticket? I was under the impression that you have to show up on court then plead that you don’t want any points on your license so therefore you would pay a higher fine??? Just asking

  107. James Bednar says:

    I was under the impression that you have to show up on court then plead that you don’t want any points on your license so therefore you would pay a higher fine???

    I remember having a discussion with someone over in Europe that went something like this:

    Me: So I hear you can pay the cops off here.

    Him: Sure, you can try to bribe them. It doesn’t always work, but it doesn’t hurt to try.

    Me: Wow, that is really surprising, that doesn’t happen back in the U.S.A.

    Him: Sure it does, you just pay your bribe to the judge.

    Me: Well said.

  108. lurkingrenter says:

    JB (105),

    Thanks for the info. Looks like the flipper is nearing his break even point with its current price depending on how much he put in already. It will be interesting to see at what price it finally sells at.

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