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Ok folks, we need to decide on a date and place for the get-together.
Date:
Saturday 1/26
Saturday 2/2
Saturday 2/9
Place:
Morristown
Gold Coast/Hoboken?
Any other suggestions?
From the WSJ:
Countrywide Seeks Rescue Deal
By DAMIAN PALETTA , VALERIE BAUERLEIN AND JAMES R. HAGERTY
January 12, 2008; Page A1
Bank of America Corp. is near agreement to take over tottering mortgage giant Countrywide Financial Corp., in a move that could build a bulwark against the mortgage-default crisis by protecting one of its biggest casualties from collapse.
Bank of America had insisted for months no takeover was in the works, but people familiar with the talks said a deal could come very soon. It isn’t clear how much Bank of America, the largest U.S. bank in stock-market value, has offered for Countrywide, the biggest mortgage lender, whose stock had dropped 88% in the past year. It is still possible that an agreement could be delayed or fall apart. For federal approval, the deal could depend on exploiting a little-known regulatory provision to allow the merged bank to hold more than 10% of the nation’s deposits.
But Countrywide’s fall and expected rescue mark a milestone in the unfolding international financial crisis. The turmoil was triggered more than a year ago by the bust of the American housing market and the resulting wave of mortgage defaults, but it is spreading — and authorities are struggling to contain it.
A weakening economy and rising mortgage delinquencies have begun to feed off each other in a dangerous spiral, as falling home values and tightening credit begin to sap consumers’ spending. Retailers yesterday reported weak December sales, and American Express Co. reported reduced spending and increased delinquencies among its customer base, known for its affluence. Unemployment last month jumped and economists have dramatically raised the odds of a recession to 42%, according to the latest WSJ.com survey.
…
More broadly, a failure of Countrywide would have posed a major risk to the U.S. economy, since the lender services about one of every six loans in the country. Bankruptcy likely would have shifted huge financial risk to Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. A spokesman for the U.S. Treasury Department said agency officials didn’t encourage Bank of America to rescue the huge mortgage firm.
Bank of America declined to comment on any deal, citing a longstanding policy on not commenting on rumors and speculation. Countrywide representatives didn’t respond to requests for comment.
grim,
burning the midnight oil, eh?
– I found the graph- I was looking for the one that goes back to 1890. I was trying to explain “the bubble” to a colleague who is looking to buy right now. Thanks for the quick response though!
…and get some sleep, wouldja?? :-)
sl
From the Star Ledger:
Trump, EnCap hit deadline for Meadowlands cleanup
Today is the deadline for EnCap to show the state it has made “measurable progress” on cleaning up four landfills. If it fails, it could be kicked off the $1 billion project. If the state is satisfied, work will continue.
New Jersey’s top environmental official Thursday gave a “solid B-plus, even an A-minus” to the recent environmental cleanup overseen by Donald Trump at the long-troubled EnCap project in the Meadowlands.
Trump did not express worry in a brief phone interview Thursday .
“We’re way ahead of schedule,” he said.
The state and Bergen County have provided $300 million in loans to back EnCap. At least $50 million in taxpayer money could be lost if the project goes under.
EnCap and Trump have made “solid progress” in recent weeks, said Lisa Jackson, commissioner of the Department of Environmental Protection. But, she said it was too soon to say whether the state might terminate its agreement with EnCap.
Re: #1
So far all dates and any location is okay with me.
Rich
From Reuters:
UBS in shareholder plea as subprime fallout weighs
UBS AG said it cannot predict the final impact of the subprime crisis but that a new capital injection would strengthen its position as it called on shareholders to support its emergency capital hike.
UBS’s made the appeal in letter to shareholders released on Friday, and it comes after the New York Times reported Merrill Lynch is expected to suffer $15 billion in losses stemming from soured mortgage investments.
The Swiss bank is braced for what looks set to be a stormy shareholder meeting on February 27 when it will seek approval for a capital increase, resulting in the sale of a 9 percent stake to the Singapore government and around 1.5 percent to an unidentified Middle East investor.
From the Press of Atlantic City:
Atlantic City gaming annual revenue tumbles in 2007 for first time ever
“The Streak” is finally over.
From the opening of the first casino in 1978, Atlantic City’s gaming industry could always be counted on to rake in more money from gamblers than it did the year before.
But 2007 proved to be a real downer – the first year ever that casinos suffered a decline in annual revenue. Figures released Thursday by the New Jersey Casino Control Commission showed that revenue fell 10.6 percent in a dismal December and was off 5.7 percent for the entire year.
Actually, Feb 9 is NO good!
1/29 or 2/2
Rich
From the Economist:
Stepping beyond subprime
THIS week saw another round of bloodletting as bankers grappled with the effects of the credit crunch. Barclays Capital and CIBC joined the long list of lenders to jettison senior investment bankers. And, to nobody’s surprise, Jimmy Cayne stepped down as boss of Bear Stearns, the Wall Street bank with the hedge-fund problems that arguably marked the start of the crisis last June. Tony Blair, Britain’s former prime minister, recruited to Wall Street on Wednesday January 9th as an adviser to JP Morgan Chase, must wonder what he has let himself in for.
From the Economist:
The R word
ALMOST six out of ten Americans believe that the country is already in a recession. Although most forecasters still expect a formal recession will be avoided (typically putting the odds at around 40%), not everyone agrees. The Economist’s informal R-word index is also sounding alarms. Our simple formula pinpointed the start of recession in 1981 and 1990 and 2001. Although the number of stories is still lower than before previous recessions, the recent jump—if sustained for a quarter—is similar to that which preceded the 2001 downturn.
grim,
burning the midnight oil, eh?
Late night geeking at work.
From the AP:
Consumer Confidence Sinks to Record Low
Consumer confidence fell to an all-time low as worries about jobs, energy bills and home foreclosures darkened people’s feelings about the country’s economic health and their own financial well-being.
According to the RBC Cash Index, confidence tumbled to a mark of 56.3 in early January. That compares with a reading of 65.9 in December — and a benchmark of 100 — and was the worst since the index began in 2002.
“People are anxious because everything sounds pretty awful these days,” said Bill Cheney, chief economist at John Hancock Financial Services Group.
Economists cited several factors for consumers’ gloomy outlook:
–Hiring practically stalled in December, pushing the unemployment rate to 5 percent, a two-year high, the government reported last week.
–The meltdown in the housing market has dragged down home values and made people feel less wealthy.
–Harder-to-get credit has made it difficult for some to make big-ticket purchases.
–High energy prices are squeezing wallets and pocketbooks.
–There has been much hand-wringing on Wall Street and Main Street as to whether all these problems will plunge the country into recession.
“Consumers are gloomy. The confidence reading suggests that people believe bad times are upon us,” said Richard Yamarone, economist at Argus Research.
From Bloomberg:
Vacancy Rate at U.S. Shopping Centers Rises to 11-Year High
Vacancies in U.S. neighborhood and community shopping centers rose to an 11-year high in the fourth quarter as the housing slump dented consumer spending, according to Reis Inc.
The vacancy rate rose to 7.5 percent in the three months ended Dec. 31, from 7.3 percent in the third quarter, the New York-based real estate research firm said in a survey.
“The retail sector is coming under increasing strain, both in terms of slower rent growth and falling occupancy,” said Sam Chandan, chief economist at Reis.
Centro Gets Proposal to Cede Management of Some Funds
Centro Properties Group, the Australian owner of U.S. malls whose market worth plunged 85 percent in the past month, was approached by MFS Ltd. with an offer to take over managing A$8.5 billion ($7.6 billion) of funds.
…
Selling fund management rights “won’t solve half Centro’s problems because the money they could raise is not enough; they need billions,” said Justin Blaess, property portfolio manager at ING Investment Management in Sydney. “People are jockeying for position and MFS’ response is natural.”
OT for njpatient, I think. Everybody else please feel free to skip this so we avoid hijacking the thread with car chat.
Did you say you were thinking about a Honda Civic? I’ve had it for two months, and here are a couple of comments. One: the thing has enough pep for the commute. Two: the gas mileage is unbelievable- we’re getting an extra vacation this year. Three: you can hear the clicking of fuel injectors when stopped. Four, if you’re under 5″2″, be prepared for some severe blind spot issues, especially left flank merging. Five: I get some road rage against me in this car, some of it may be mistaken identy because half the cars on the road down here are Civics.
Last night (Rt 1, dark, crawling, bumper-to-bumper, middle lane) some dude started honking his horn behind me a few cars. Note, there was a Civic to the left of me and one in front of me. A minute later he’s on my right, window down, screaming “You forking are the worst driver on the hwy, get the fork off the road.”
OT: Haven’t been able to post much lately. For last one week enjoying things in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia. I would say its quite an experience.
Grim – I am ok with any of the dates you mentioned.
I’d vote 2/2 in Morristown
PRESS RELEASE: Bank of America Agrees to Purchase Countrywide Financial Corp.
[ DJNS Original Stories — 11th January 2008 ]
Creates Largest U.S. Mortgage Lender and Servicer
CHARLOTTE, N.C., Jan. 11 /PRNewswire/ — Bank of America Corporation today announced a definitive agreement to purchase Countrywide Financial Corp. in an all-stock transaction worth approximately $4 billion.
That entire conversation yesterday regarding oil was so enlightening to a non-chemist. With the new Nano soon available (6 months) in India, isn’t that going to exert futher pressure on oil supply? I gather only 1 in 7 now own cars there..the potential for car ownership (with all of that outsourcing money available to the Indians) is staggering. Even at 50MPG, what is that going to do to the price of gas? How can the price not soar with India’s pull on the resource?
I know you have discussed LNG (liquid natural gas) here before but I didn’t see it brought up yesterday..is it relevant? There had been talk of storage units being built 20 miles off of the coast there. Hey you chemists, does it help solve any problems?
#293 – Clotpol – yeah what you said re: make
#119 – Remember the dream turned into a nightmare for so many.
Congratulations Ann from me too!
News from California:
The Governator has proposed a 10% cut across the board. He proposes releasing 22,000 non-violent inmates from the prisons to cut costs and an immediate $4B reduction in the education budget. ALL while he is proposing a massive child care initiative.
(Don’t you first have to stop the spending – then cut costs?)
I propose a law – “there outta be a law”-
We do not get paid if we do not do our jobs – period. A legislator’s job is to bring in a balanced budget – on time. If they don’t..they should not be paid – period.
Cindy
What? A doom and gloom convention/get together? I’ll be there. I can’t wait to see the face of real estate terrorism and confront it directly!
Set it up for Morristown. I’ll be bringing some investors and if you guys are nice, we might consider selling you a house.
Look, it’s no big deal that BOA bought Countrywide. This is just normal merger and acquisition activity that occurs all the time. Let’s just accept this as that.
re101,
Come on down, I’ll buy you a drink.
Martingale in the Black Box.
Bank of America to Acquire Countrywide for $4 Billion
Bank of America Corp., the biggest U.S. bank by market value, agreed to buy Countrywide Financial Corp. for about $4 billion, five months after making a money- losing $2 billion investment in the unprofitable mortgage lender.
Bank of America will acquire Countrywide for approximately $7.16 a share in stock, the Charlotte, North Carolina-based company said in a statement today. The offer is 7.6 percent below Countrywide’s closing share price on the New York Stock Exchange.
“I hope Bank of America isn’t throwing good money after bad,” said Eric Schopf, a fund manager at Baltimore-based Hardesty Capital Management LLC, which owns 216,000 Bank of America shares, before the takeover announcement. “They struck a deal that wasn’t very attractive. Hopefully they can get it right the second time around.”
re101 said: This is just normal merger and acquisition activity that occurs all the time.
You don’t think this is big news? Good or bad? Do you think that if CFC was really doing alright and just had stock price issues because folks were shorting them that they would’ve accepted an offer for $7.16/sh???? About 1/5 it’s price 6 months ago. That’s not weathering a storm, that’s throwing up the white flag.
From CNN/Money:
Housing: No room for bulls
Even a few months ago, it seemed like a good idea to hold a debate between real estate bulls and bears.
But with home sales spiraling and the outlook getting gloomier, it was hard to find a single optimist at a recent panel discussion on the forecast for the housing market.
“We’re facing the worst housing recession in U.S. history,” according to Nouriel Roubini, an economics professor at New York University and co-founder of RGE Monitor, an economic research and analysis firm. He predicted peak-to-bottom national home price losses of 30 percent.
Roubini joined a group of three other real estate experts at the Real Estate Connect NYC 2008 conference in New York Wednesday for a discussion titled, “The Housing Debate: Bull vs. Bear.”
“There will be 10 million houses with negative equity,” he said, where the owners will owe more on their mortgages than the properties are worth, giving them less incentive to keep making payments. Many will walk away, he said, depressing markets further.
The housing turndown, according to Roubini, was the initial trigger for a broad economic decline. “We’re in an economy-wide recession already, one that will be much more severe than those of 1991 or 2001,” he said.
…
Another bear on the panel was Barry Ritholtz, chief executive of market-watcher Ritholtz Research. He placed the real estate slump in the framework of Elisabeth Kübler-Ross’ five stages of grief: anger, denial, bargaining, depression and acceptance.
Ritholtz said we’ve just about worked through the denial stage, which was exemplified by the National Association of Realtors first saying there was no housing slump, then that it would be contained (the soft landing scenario), and then that it would be limited to housing.
Now, said Ritholtz, “We’re in the bargaining stage,” where he said we’ll promise to never speculate on real estate again if God will only let us sell our properties now.
Next will come depression and finally acceptance. “That,” said Ritholtz, “is when you should start to buy again.”
…
The third bear was Noah Rosenblatt, founder of UrbanDigs.com, a blog that covers macro-economic trends and their impact on New York real estate. He not only predicted a strong recession but said he’s looking forward to it.
“If you’re a value guy, are you buying now? No,” he said. “It would be like catching a falling knife. It’s a credit crisis and we’re going to see a lot worse before it gets better.”
Ara Hovnanian on CNBC few min. should be interesting.
Will he be wearing a “For Sale” sign around his neck?
Either of the first two dates work for us.
There’s a new Wal-mart opening in Georgia.
10,000 people showed up.
They are taking 400.
http://www.ajc.com/metro/content/metro/dekalb/stories/2008/01/10/walmartfollo_0111.html?cxntlid=homepage_tab_newstab
Any date is good for me but I’d prefer something a little farther east if at all possible. Are we going to have nametags too? I’m bringing my camera!
Cindy (18)-
The Nano will be a drop in the bucket compared to the 2 billion Chinese who will be able to buy a car within the next five years.
Think they’re gonna have any emissions standards?
mike (25)-
I couldn’t stop staring at Hovnanian’s hair. What did he say?
Blood,
You’ll enjoy this..
“Big Box Mart” by JibJab.
http://www.jibjab.com/originals/big_box_mart
grim-
Will try to make any date you pick, but how about Morristown? Us hicks in the boonies are a ways from JC/Hobroken.
I think that stuff in Hovnanian’s hair might be Jheri-Curl.
#29 – Oh crap – you’re right…
What a mess..
I made a mistake on my post #18 –
It S/B Re: #169 from yesterday “The dream of home ownership should be extended to all.” I just flat do not agree with that!
I feel like I earned that dream..
Nobody handed it to me on a silver platter and said “here ya go.”
Without a vested interest – like anything else-people will just walk away.
Followup from Herb Greenberg:
The Real Story on Countrywide, Cont’d….
1. The Fed is behind the deal. (Today’s thought: It’s as likely as yesterday.)
2. The Fed is behind the deal because the rumors yesterday of a near bankruptcy were probably true. (Based on the price, it would appear more evident than ever.)
3. As part of the deal, the government likely agrees to guarantee BofA against Countrywide-related losses. (There was nothing in the press release about that, so let’s give them the benefit of the doubt and say BofA is shouldering all of the risk and at this price it believes the risk is worth the reward.)
4. Lost in the in the noise yesterday was that Moody’s downgraded the ratings on 30 (count ‘em — THIRTY!) tranches of Countrywide’s mortgage debt by more than a few notches. They did something similar before American Home Mortgage filed for bankruptcy. (Remains as telling today as it was yesterday.)
5. Investors bid the stock higher assuming a premium when it’s likely that BofA still needs to fully assess the value of the assets before the deal’s full value will be known. (Speculators overshot on leak of the takeover.)
6. Big question, of course, is what Countrywide investors will get. (Not as much as they expected. The New York Times reported that Countrwide chief Angelo Mozilo never thought he’d get less than $10.)
7. Rule of thumb with bankruptcies: Stocks often double on their way to zero.
8. BofA gets a free bank and a put to the government. (There are exceptions to every rule; this is one.)
Big auction of RVs this weekend down Fresno, CA way..
I vote gold coast, after all it’s a glowing bastion for everything that is good re NJ real estate.
Tremendous video, Grim. Thanks.
I can proudly say I haven’t set foot in a Wal-mart in nearly 3 years. Costco guy, here.
grim (21)-
Buy ReTard a Clonopin & tonic.
Re Oil,
The other forgotten pricing pressure re oil is the growing demand within the oil exporting countries themselves. As these middle eastern countries and Brazil etc develop a middle class there’s less oil for the US, China, Europe and India to bid up causing future prices to rise further. Absent a global recession I don’t see how oil avoids increasing in price in the long term.
New term-
Real estate anarchy – or how would one term that..
(Organizational chaos…?)
When every sound R/E lending practice (rule) was broken then everyone (buyers)else started breaking the rules as well…
Re Countrywide,
I am shocked this wasn’t a cash deal ;)
#40 -supply and demand …seems like we are getting further and further down the list.
Does it help any if we focus on refining here?
2/9 is the only day – I’m working the other days :(
sl
some positive news this morning:
1) it is official BofA buys countrywide;
2) Merrill upgrades Bear Stearn;
3) Hovnanian said on CNBC that housing was near the bottom and that December sales were unusually strong.
Target is much nicer then Walmart. They have ceilings and it’s not depressing.
reinvestor101 Says:
January 11th, 2008 at 7:16 am
What? A doom and gloom convention/get together?
Call it the Anarchist’s Convention?
# 28
Nametags — at the Anarchist’s Convention?
Emailing with a guy, and he just sent this:
I am a commercial real estate appraiser in the Fort Myers/Naples area, and we have seen a 35% to 40% hit to residential values over the last 18 to 24 months. Two weeks ago I made an offer on a second home as an investment. We are certainly nearing the bottom of the trough, this is the house: 4 BR, 2 BA, 1,900 SF under air, pool, completed in May 2007. The mortgage note on the house is $415,000 (which includes the lot and construction). The listing price (short sale) was $250,000…I offered $220,000. If you have solid income and good credit, banks will kill each other trying to sign you up in this environment.
#24 Excelent look at the buyer psychology. Totally makes sense that home owners who are told that their home is worth a lot less experience the 5 stages of grief. Anger,Denial,Bargaining,Depression and Acceptance. 80% still in denial in my opinion.
HA Hov says home near bottom. And Charles Manson tells the parole board he is reformed.
Cutting back on HBO? We’ve got to be in a recession already..
From the LA Times:
Public senses an economy going south
Antonio Dabu, 54, who owns a real estate office in Jersey City, N.J., told his wife they may have to quit subscribing to HBO. “Everyone is scared about every little expense,” Dabu said as his secretary waited — in vain — for new clients to call.
JP Morgan buying Wamu?
# 50
For RE, it seems that denial comes first, then anger, then depression, and while bargaining may eventually come, it will be awhile before many accept what happened.
BTW good day to buy CFC cds while they are still 5%. That won’t last more than a day or two.
#48
Yes. Anarchist #1, Machete Girl, AK 47 Wanna Be Holder…
re: 35
BOA spent 6 billion to maybe save 10 billion, all the smoke and mirrors about offering Countrywide mortgages through BOA offices is pure horse manure. BOA is simply buying both sides of the transaction and now proboblay won’t have to take a writedown over it.
Countywide admitted back in July that the bad loans aren’t contained to the subprime niche as many had wished. It was about time their junk was downgraded.
Anarchy is the natural state of man. One can only hope that we achieve true anarchy.
“I shall blow up your buildings a little more and be less open with you than I was before. I wish we all truly wanted to change this cesspool we live in.”
That was uttered by Thomas Rainsborough in 1647.
ForeclosureRadar.com
For those interested.
REanarchy – say that 5 times..really fast…
it’s fun…
#19 reinvestorI’ll be bringing some investors (underwater flippers) and if we are nice to you guys would you guys consider buying a house from us, (of course at a deep discount) Please we are desperate, and big crybabies.
ReTard (19)-
Yeah, bring your genius flipper buddies. Booyah is looking for some nice, new “toys”.
# 58
In the time of Charles I and the English Revolution, many people were just about living in real, not metaphorical, cesspools.
#45 bi some positive news this morning:
Positive for who, you?
Re 43
US energy infrastructure needs a monstrous upgrade.
Shore (63)-
All I know about the English Revolution comes from Monty Python:
CUSTOMER:
Right. All right.
Who’s that, then?
CART MASTER:
I dunno. Must be a king.
CUSTOMER:
Why?
CART MASTER:
He hasn’t got shit all over him.
REInvestor better not read this, may cause a blood vessel to pop
Recession–Who Cares?
http://www.commondreams.org/archive/2008/01/10/6296/
Post-acquisition layoffs at CFC?
#20 Just typical meger activity, You are cluless was well as a cry baby.
#45 bi
Merrill said with confidence that they would only write down $4B and Hovnanian called the bottom in August 07. Definitely some credibility problems with thses guys.
On another note I predict that Ara Hov in his next appearance on CNBC will sport a doo rag for that mop of oily hair
BAC was down 3% soon after announcement. Now it is up 3%. Apparently the market sees it as a great move.
# 66
Three great parts of the movie:
1) Are you suggesting coconuts migrate?
2) We don’t have a King. We’re an autonomus collective.
[snip]
See the oppression inherent in the system
3) What do we do to witches?
We burn them.
What else burns?
Wood.
What does wood do when we put it in water?
It floats.
What else floats?
A duck.
Therefore, if she weighs as much as a duck, she is a witch.
Who are you who is so wise in the ways of science?
Anyone have any advice on morgages in the current market. I need to get a small morgage with 50% down, good credit and well below the Jumbo limits.
My last morgage was with an FCU that sold on almost all of their mortgages. They say that they are still in that business, but I don’t know if that will change. We also had a few problems with the servicing and at one point they were paying our neighbours taxes.
I have an offer for a mortgage with PHH via Coldwell Banker, but I’m hesitant going with them as I don’t know how hard they are going to be hit this year.
Any thoughts appriciated.
Would be interesting to know Merrill’s payout in bonuses for 2007, versus the $4B they need to raise shortly.
# 73
Unless you deal with a small institution that makes a point of holding its own loans, it is likely to be sold off regardless of who originates it.
Where is Mitchell today ? NJ ranks #1 in millionaires with 6.5% of households with $1M liquid. North Carolina ranked #39, edging out Alabama…………LMFAO
#68 greim One would have to belive they will be quite ugly, lots of overlap/dulpication betwenn the 2.
From what I understand BOA is really interested in CFC’s platform for mtg origination,and access to customer deposits. Which to me signals lots of lay offs.
There were large scale lay offs duting BOA’s last acquisition of Fleet, however since this occured while the economy was still good, it was not really noticed.
pgc,
It is in your best interest to go shopping.
The only thing you need to be concerned with is whether your lender will fund at closing. There is no sense in paying a higher rate to a ‘more reputable’ lender, servicers will screw up.
Humm, 6.5%, in a state with high taxes, high energy costs, and a need to have a good $5m for a decent (but not gold-plated) retirement. It should be 25% or more. A lot of people are going to have to live badly in retirement, die early, or move out to survive in their 70s.
http://real-us.news.yahoo.com/s/csm/20080109/ts_csm/arealtors?ref=patrick.net
Some interesting information, the statement by Elizabeth mayor about terrorist incident is funny.
On Dec. 19, the Federal Aviation Administration began its first overhaul in decades of the jet routes that crisscross the country’s most congested airspace — a 31,000-square-mile area around New York and Philadelphia.
…
In Elizabeth, N.J., the changes will mean that some planes will fly straight over the center of the city.
“The FAA plan will do more harm to the city of Elizabeth than any terrorist incident,” said Mayor Chris Bollwage.
…
So far, the complaints haven’t stopped the FAA.
…
According to the FAA, an additional 30,600 people will find themselves living in neighborhoods where the average daily aircraft noise level is 60 to 65 decibels — considered the high edge of tolerable for a residential area.
…
The big losers will be a few communities near Newark and Philadelphia that already hear a good deal of airplane traffic because of their proximity to the airports. There will also be a slight to moderate increase in noise in parts of Morris and Sussex counties in northern New Jersey.
…
By 2011, the FAA estimates that there will be nearly 728,650 fewer people living in areas where the daily noise level is between 45 and 55 decibels — louder than a refrigerator hum, but quieter than two people talking in a room.
Many of those people are in a corridor running southwest from New Brunswick, N.J. There will also be noise benefits in pockets of densely populated Essex County, N.J., which includes Newark, and parts of northeastern Pennsylvania.
http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5j95LH_Ar_kzcatmfi_yHOnvVWnfQD8U39HC80
Feb 2nd 2007 CFC was 45 a share yet Angelo says a Jan 2008 7 a share buy out is a great deal for the shareholders. Hate to see a bad deal.
“There were large scale lay offs duting BOA’s last acquisition of Fleet, however since this occured while the economy was still good, it was not really noticed.”
Lots of layoffs in that one, including a close friend
# 82. It sounds like a GREAT deal to me!
http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story/countrywides-mozilo-entitled-115-mln/story.aspx?guid=%7B19F5F34F-40A7-4812-AB7B-7801A54FBBC8%7D
Countrywide’s Mozilo entitled to $115 mln severance -report
Last update: 8:51 a.m. EST Jan. 11, 2008
DOW JONES NEWSWIRES
Countrywide Financial Corp. (CFCCountrywide Financial Corp
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Sponsored by:
CFC) founder Angelo Mozilo is entitled to $115 million in severance-related pay if his troubled company is acquired by Bank of America Corp. (BACbank of america corporation com
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BAC) , The Los Angeles Times, citing regulatory filings, reported Friday.
The newspaper said free rides on the company jet are also included in Mozilo’s departure deal, and the company will pick up his country club bills until 2011.
Neither Mozilo nor Countrywide officials returned calls for comment, The L.A. Times said.
# Grim ,,,who is invited???
Everyone
Cindy # 18
Glad that we ( all of us here) could be informative for you. feel free to ask questions here, we are generally pretty friendly.
Regarding Liquefied natural Gas…. The short answer is NO, it will not help anything. When you see reports of oil supply or reserves, those numbers are almost always given in Total Condensible Liquids (TCL). Tcl includes the crude oil as well as various gases such as natural gas, since most of the gases associated will oil can be liquefied under pressure, such as liquefied natural gas, or propane. But consider that new LNG terminal may help short term. there is a choke point in the LNG supply system in the USA. new terminals on the east and west coast would help maintain supply lines. However, like crude oil, demand for LNG is growing faster then supply which means that LNG is for all intents and purposes in the same boat as crude oil.
Regarding the Nano, we have indirectly discussed this point. Both india and china are in the process of a massive middle class explosion. The people moving into the middle class in these 2 countries are seriously increasing their oil consumption in many ways, from driving cars that they didnt have before, or driving larger cars and having more of them; to using more electricity to using more services in which the ultimate energy source for the service is oil.
Long story short; the nano is just a symptom not a cause. a growing middle class will use the oil one way or another
Angelo made out like a bandit..
http://biz.yahoo.com/t/18/6026.html
UK press full of talk of impending UK recession.
It’s going global – no surprise there.
Ket,
When I was in Europe earlier this year I drove a VW that was converted to run on propane.
It took me a while to realize that Gaz wasn’t Gasoline, but propane gas.
It’s a shame we don’t have more fueling options. Diesel, Gasoline, and Propane are all very common there.
bi,
Do you think it’s a good time to buy BAC?
Cindy,
if you want more info on the oil situation take a look at http://www.theoildrum.com
they are indeed peek oil guys ( well so am i), but they have a large amount of good info and interesting discussions.
Then again, I’m not sure I trust the pump monkeys here in Jersey enough to allow them to handle the stuff.
“UK press full of talk of impending UK recession”
My UK relatives are full of gloom and doom (reinvestor would call them positively unamerican); my cousin in Gloucester was telling me that the UK RE situation is worse than ours (he thinks) and that when all the RE speculators realized that there was a bubble in the UK they started buying in NY – but now they realize we’re in the same boat, and they’ve stopped. I was told the same thing by a lawyer in Ireland last week. If that anecdata holds true, Manhattan may begin to have a difficult time.
“they are indeed peek oil guys ( well so am i)”
Me too.
#88,
That’s because he is a bandit. Don’t think for a minute that he’ll be charged for this now that he handed the company over to Lewis and not shutting the doors.
Lewis will be seen as the bad guy while he’s cutting the fat and laying off 50% of the old CW’s workforce.
With the backing of the fed and BoA CW will survivce until 2010 all while gaining market share.
Watch out 2010, lean and mean CW with virtually no competition. If Lewis keeps his job until 2010 he’ll look like a genious.
#87 – Thanks kettle1..
Seriously, I feel like I’m enrolled in some sort of heavy-duty on-line course reading these posts..
You folks are fascinating…And I love that I can ask a question here and there. But..
off to work about now each day… (I teach second grade so I’m not learning much at work!) I’ll read up tonight and find out what world crisis has been averted/created – whatever…and the current price of CHC/BOA for sure…
Thanks again for the info..
Cindy
#78 grim.
I am shopping, but I’m wondering what parts of the industry are going to get hit. Are services going to go out of business with falling originations and defaulting clients.
Is it worth looking at Countrywide on the back of the BOA buyout. With WaMu in trouble and C writing down so much, is it better to avoid them.
grim # 90
If you liked the VW so much, then do the conversion to your car here! you can have the conversion kit installed on pretty much any car. you can even run dual fuel, gasoline and propane.
ket,
Higher on my list would be to do an SVO conversion on an old Benz.
Even higher than that would be to do a full electric conversion on a Porsche 914.
I propose a new addition to all future executive compensation packages. We’ll call it the Mozillo clause, or Bronze Parachute: If the company is run into the ground on your watch while you step up your option/stock sales and you are forced out and recieve your golden parachute, then any shareholder, employee, or customer that sees you in public is allowed to kick you in the nads without any legal recourse on your part. Female executives to recieve a breast twist.
Can we knock it off already with invocations of the Kubler-Ross scale? (Or at least invent catchy shorthand for it?)
Clog: The more you write, the less you say. Funny how that works.
15 Pat
we got the Civic. Love it to death. Peppy, as you say (despite 4 cylinders), great mileage, and the thing that surprised me the most is the quality of the speakers. Chailly/Rite of Spring recording the engineer must have put a microphone inside the bass drum, and justice is done to that recording in the Civic, which is remarkable.
Sorry about the road rage!
Grim, i am actually considering a similar project as your porche. I am considering a capacitor Biodiesl hybrid. If the US heads towards direct electric cars, then super capacitors make much more sense then batteries.
A company by the name of EEStor has signed a contract to suppl the capacitors for the GM Volt. EEstor has apparently tested and demonstrated their product to hold 10x the energy at 1/10th the weight of a lead acid battery
#101 hehehehe
The sentiment is likely universally appreciated, though that would probably kill about half the M&A out there.
GRIM ….Cool ….be there in HOB or MOR ….:)
#74 re: ML …layoff slips insted of Bonusess the way i HEAR !!!
“Grim, i am actually considering a similar project as your porche.”
That reminds me of the joke about the guy who hires one of the neighbor kids to paint his porch. Gives the kid a bucket of paint and sends him off to do the work. 20 minutes later, the kid comes back in the house. “You done already?” asks the guy?
“Yeah,” says the kid, “but you know, that’s not a porch, it’s a ferrari.”
“super capacitors make much more sense then batteries”
…but not as much as FLUX capacitors!!
Grim,
2/2 in Hoboken(or perhaps the Light Horse Tavern in JC?)
grim,
My vote is for Motown. Most likely it’s more central to the majority of people. Several bars to choose from.
# njpatient Says:
January 11th, 2008 at 10:05 am
“super capacitors make much more sense then batteries”
…but not as much as FLUX capacitors!!
perhaps but you have to hit 88 mph and the flux capacitor requires 1.21 gigawatts. Thats what the plutonium is for silly :)
yes i am a geek!
Any opinions on the Penske “SmartCar” that is supposed to be sold starting this year?
A friend has been salivating over their stock, citing orders/sales of the car.
Me? I’m so skeptical. Looked at the site and it seems smaller than a Cooper Mini.
Then, I suppose if gas goes to $4 or $5 – they might be in huge demand.
Any ideas?
sl
oh, i vote for morristown!!!
good luck finding a rust-free 914….
We converted a Ford Festiva to electric power at Trenton State college in ’95 to compete in the Tour Del Sol race.
Used deep cycle boat batterys and a big electric motor plugged right into the stock transmision.
One of the most humble entries (Western Washington had a car that looked like a LeMans racer http://vri.etec.wwu.edu/viking_23_photos.htm), but while other teams were up all night working on theirs we were partying.
Drove pretty much like a normal car, except silent. I drove it into the student’s center one evening and parked in front of the Rat to get a bite to eat with another Enginerd, telling the security guards that it was for a display the next day.
I still think you would be crazy to put your money in a CFC CD. This deal with BofA is not yet definite. You are essentially making a bet that it will close by taking out a CD with CFC. 5% doesn’t seem like a great return in light of the risk
sl,
Wait until Benz releases the tiny A series cars here. The A160 cdi is one of my favorites, wife fell in love with the little turbo 3 door hatch in Europe. Just about 50mpg on diesel.
http://www.carsplusplus.com/specs2007/mercedes-benz_a_160_cdi_classic.php
http://www.topgear.com/drives/C7/K0/
#117
Nah,
This is what we need over here:
http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/News/articleId=121452
200+ HP, handling, AND 54 MPG!
Kettle,
I think you might find this interesting.
By the way, Peter should run for president in 2012 when everything he predicted becomes reality.
http://www.europac.net/Schiff-Bloomberg-1-09-08_lg.asp
Seen lots of reviewers calling the new 1-series a baby M (regarding the 135)
#120
Yeah; and BMW itself has been promoting it as the new 2002. I remain skeptical, however, as the 135i is only 200 lbs lighter than the 335i!
I’ll withhold judgement until I get my hands on one for a test drive. That engine is a gem, though, that’s for sure.
I still think you would be crazy to put your money in a CFC CD. This deal with BofA is not yet definite. You are essentially making a bet that it will close by taking out a CD with CFC. 5% doesn’t seem like a great return in light of the risk
Skeptic,
Stop being a skeptic and open your eyes, the FED is behing this, BoA was assured that there will be a huge rate cuts this month and that Ben will fly over BoA headquaters in his famous helicopter.
From Bloomberg:
Bank of America Credit Risk Increases on Countrywide Purchase
The risk of Bank of America Corp. defaulting rose to the highest since at least November 2001 after the biggest U.S. bank by market value said it will rescue Countrywide Financial Corp.
Trading in credit-default swaps today reflected concerns that Charlotte, North Carolina-based Bank of America will take on too many liabilities in its $4 billion acquisition of Countrywide, the money-losing mortgage lender besieged by bankruptcy speculation.
Credit-default swaps on Bank of America rose 12 basis points to 92 basis points, according to broker Phoenix Partners Group in New York, suggesting deteriorating perceptions of credit quality.
“We’re going to probably have negative ratings reviews out of this” acquisition, said Ricardo Kleinbaum, a credit analyst at BNP Paribas SA in New York, saying it’s not clear how the deal will be structured.
by the way,
I love BMW..just brought my six to Ray for an oil change and new brakes and when they gave me a bill all I got was a bunch of zeros.
make 119
that is blocked at my office will check it out tonight….
#124
Wait until that intro period runs out…you’ll still see a bunch of zeros, but there will be a non-zero integer in the very leftmost position. Especially for an M6.
Cindy had an interesting post earlier
“Seriously, I feel like I’m enrolled in some sort of heavy-duty on-line course reading these posts..”
The caliber of input we have on this board is pretty impressive and quite expansive as well, we seem to have bankers, RE agents, engineers, chemists, and even a few anti-american realestate jihadists. You could probably charge for half the info on this board.
http://www.smartcarofamerica.com/
grim,
Part of the advertised attraction is the less than 13K pricetag.
Looks like a go-cart to me.
sl
Vespa!
128 Still
I have had the chance to drive a smart car. Its not a bad idea. It doesnt really work for long haul commutes but for high density urban areas like essex county or NYC i think its a very good option.
Kettle1,
EEStor is a very interesting company, I have been tracking them for a while now. It makes me wonder though that if they have this superior capacitor technology, why have they received very little public attention and funding. Capacitors in general have superior qualities over batteries (1+ Million Charge Discharge Cycles vs. 100-1000 for batteries as well as very quick charging times in minutes vs. hours for batteries). The fundamental problem with all capacitors and the EEStore super capacitor is that as quick as they are to charge (if sufficient power is available), the rate discharge is extremely hard to control. Controlling capacitor discharge is the key.
Hillary is going to make our homes worth more so brokers can make money again!
In broken English, one woman told Clinton how she wasn’t making money as a broker anymore.
“I have no income at all,” she said. “So how will I survive?”
Choking up with emotion, the woman said, “In my neighborhood, there are brand-new homes, but the value is nothing. I’m glad you are here so I can tell you, because you’re going to be the president, I know.”
http://www.lvrj.com/news/13702902.html
If you really want to know what will power cars in the future, look into ORBO:) They claim to defeat the fundamental laws of thermodynamics by more energy from little to no energy at all.
http://www.steorn.com/orbo/
# 69
3b,
I’m starting to tire of your constant sniping and attacks on my posts. Consider you and I to be no longer on speaking terms.
Grim,
I vote 2/2 Mo-town. I will be wearing my “Everybody love reinvestor101” T-Shirt.
#129
yeah!!
I’ve been reading about the energy crunch on http://www.peakoil.com – that site has a mix of gloom and doom mixed with sunshiny optimism. On the whole it’s very informative.
In case you don’t get enough gloom and doom here, read James Howard Kunstler’s blog at http://www.kunstler.com – he wrote a book describing the coming energy crunch. He’s anti-suburbia and pro-railroads.
Comments (not mine) from another blog, but they are an interesting comment on housing oil and international finance…
China still roars ahead. If we get a global contraction, it will hit China but it will absolutely hammer Japan. And Japan knows this which is why, despite the brave talk, they are filled with great fear. They know they can’t keep things going by being honest or following the promises of the Plaza Accords to open Fortress Japan to world trade. Instead, they hope the lure of free money will stop other nations from demanding Japan change. And China’s rulers are ready for a downturn. What happens in great downturns when the ruling empire that runs the Seven Seas with a navy that is scared of a few speed boats?
Well, knowing the ruling empire is rotten to the core and unable to function very well, most rising empires destroy the old, rotting empires. Japan can’t do this but Russia and China can. The only thing preventing this is nuclear bombs in the US. We will use them.
So Russia and China will gingerly disarm us or in a more hilarious move, simply insure we go bankrupt much faster than they lose authority. In this case, they have a great chance of winning.
http://housingpanic.blogspot.com/
Countrywide avoids bankruptcy as BofA pays $4 billion (in stock) for a $1 company, probably so they could avoid losing billions more
The US learned from the UK Northern Rock debacle and avoided a massive bank run by orchestrating BofA’s $4 billion all-stock takeover of lowly Countrywide and its epitome of executive corruption and greed, Angelo Mozilo.
Now ask yourselves, why would BofA pay $1 for a company that would have gone bankrupt if they hadn’t? True, it’s at over 80% off vs. its high, but still why pay billions for a company worth nothing (at best)?
Hmmmm…..
Maybe because if Countrywide went bankrupt, it would have cost BofA more than $4 billion?
Controlling capacitor discharge is the key.
For those who aren’t electrical engineers.
1) Put a 9V battery to your tongue. Note the feeling.
2) Put a stun gun to your tongue. Note the feeling.
3) Compare.
still_looking,
Here is the Consumer Reports preliminary review of the SmartCar. Read this the other day while looking at some other New for 2008’s.
CR’s take: The Diesel Smart ForTwo we tested was the worst vehicle we’ve experienced in many years. It’s still small. It’s still funky. We just hope it’s better.
http://onlocation.consumerreports.org/applications/CROSHOWS/AutoShows/New-Car-Preview/2-Model.asp?ID=567
Grim,
This is precisely the sort of thing that should not be posted. There is always room for positive thinking.
grim Says:
January 11th, 2008 at 7:51 am
From CNN/Money:
Housing: No room for bulls
Even a few months ago, it seemed like a good idea to hold a debate between real estate bulls and bears.
#140
With all due respect: who are you to tell the owner and host what he should and should not be posting?
Actually, that’s a good idea. A better idea would be something positive on real estate like “I’ll be buying a house during the spring”
TJ Says:
January 11th, 2008 at 10:42 am
Grim,
I vote 2/2 Mo-town. I will be wearing my “Everybody love reinvestor101″ T-Shirt
Maybe we can persuade SG to being home a few of those Tata cars in his luggage?
#134 recrybaby: Consider you and I to be no longer on speaking terms.
Works for me. But if you keep crying for handouts and insist on calling yourself an investor, when in reality you are just a cry baby, than I have no option but to continue my guerilla campaign, against your pathetic posts
Grim,
Here is another great test learned first hand. Open a disposable camera to “inspect” the insides before reading the warning label stating “Do Not Open. Risk of Electrical Shock Could Occur!” With your fingers probe the capacitor that charges the flash.
Note: If you try this, prepare to have little to no function in your hand for about an hour.
re101,
Positive depends on your perspective and position.
Where you sit is where you stand.
TJ
EEStor has been VERY tight lipped about its technology. But it has demonstrated it to various groups such as GM and lockheed martin.
here is a link to a Q&A about them regarding GM volt
http://www.gm-volt.com/2008/01/10/lockheed-martin-signs-agreement-with-eestor/#more-720
perhaps i am wrong, but i see the discharge issue as a speed bump not a roadblock. From the reading i have done on the background tech, the physics is on their side, they just need to work it out. But alas this has been the death of many a tech, so we shall see.
On a side note, if this becomes main stream i would recommend against putting a fire hose on a car crash!!!!
#140 recrybaby:This is precisely the sort of thing that should not be posted. There is always room for positive thinking, or desperate propoganda, from underwater flippers like myself.
Kettle1,
On a side note, if this becomes main stream i would recommend against putting a fire hose on a car crash!!!
But how would the fire start?
TJ # 145,
Please do not try TJ’s suggestion if you have a weak heart or other heart condition is may actually be possible to cause heart problems
Note: to be really accurate it depends on how the current discharges across your body and for a health person should cause nothing but “discomfort”, but for someone with a medical condition this could be dangerous!
sorry TJ not trying to be to an*l just thought i would give people a heads up
TJ,
electric arcs from a damaged capacitor bank are very good at burning/igniting materials
reinvestor,
I purchased a home last month, so purchasing a home in the spring would be a stretch. However I am sure you would disapprove of my purchase anyway. It was a major Comp Killer; 2002 pricing in Basking Ridge.
Re101 just needs a steak and a Xjob
“3b,
I’m starting to tire of your constant sniping and attacks on my posts. Consider you and I to be no longer on speaking terms”
3b, I get overheated easily, so I’ll be standing next to you in Morristown where there’ll apparently be less hot air.
Am I going to have to add the “do not try this at home” clause in the disclaimer?
73# PGC Says:
I have an offer for a mortgage with PHH via Coldwell Banker, but I’m hesitant going with them as I don’t know how hard they are going to be hit this year.
Any thoughts appriciated.
My mort is with PHH/Cendant and they have been perfect. Absolutely perfect.
I pay extra principal, no problems, taxes, no problems, make changes to auto deductions, no problems, get a semi-annual statement of activity, everything paid/collected on time.
I started with them, they’ve never sold me. It’s been 8 years…we’re almost paid off.
HTH…
PGC,
Does this mean the deal is good?
My fingers are still crossed for you, that is one of the better deals that I’ve seen.
TJ,
Thanks! I will forward the link to him.
Hopefully he will be a bit more skeptical.
sl
#52 TJ According to recrybaby. what you ahve doen amounts to a terroristic and un-American act, shame on you.
TJ – my brother, when he was 4 years old or so, was the world’s formost expert on insects. He’d show my mother an insect and say “I’m going to pick it up.” My mother would say “careful, what if it bites?”
Brother: “It does.”
Mother: “How do you know?”
Brother: “Because it bit me the last time I picked one up.”
gold at 899.
:)
“Stock market tumbles as investors mull AmEx profit warning and potential Merrill Lynch writedowns.”
That can’t be true!! bi told me there would be no more writedowns!!! bi, tell them it’s not true!!!
# 132
Insamuch as so many RE agents were acting like Wh0res during the run up, now that things have crashed the agent is lucky that she lives in Nevada where related activities are legal.
watch the pick and pays…..
SAS
#162 nj patient:That can’t be true!! bi told me there would be no more writedowns!!! bi, tell them it’s not true!!!
OK, but that does not mean the natural pant up demand is still not there.
# 138 “) Put a stun gun to your tongue. Note the feeling.”
You have been talking to my wife?
RE 163 good point, we had to swallow their lies about RE for many years in order for them to make money it is about time they have to swallow something to make money.
“Stock market tumbles as investors mull AmEx profit warning and potential Merrill Lynch writedowns.”
If the market is down because of Merrill then why is MER up today?
# 150
Ket is right. Also, if one has a cut in the area where the body touches the capacitor, the skin’s resistance to the current is vastly reduced and, believe it or not, can kill a person. Because of this, hospital biomedical technicians go nuts working to prevent stray current from encountering things like the patient’s body or lines carrying normal saline fluid into patients.
#163 and #168
They acted like high priced whores only they were ugly, smelly and told everyone of their clients hurry up and pay cause I have three other offers.
Mozzillo was their pimp.
# 167 Where is Dice Clay when you need him.
Quick question: do any of you folks know of ways for small investors to easily short stocks? I’m aware of the risks of being short (unlimited loss potential).
re: 133 TJ
There are a number of what I would call startups out there claiming that they can create something from nothing, one has even claimed that they can generate electricty from the Quantum Space so called Zero Point Energy.
Here http://www.magneticpowerinc.com/
My opinion is that they are looking for VC money.
Waters,
You can get approved for a “margin” account with just about any online brokerage and short stocks.
165# 3b, you shoul learn something from your commrade MM to make some bulks here. look at financials and homebuilders today apparently it shows strength.
Sean,
Orbo sounds real:) I mean…it uses magnets. Magnets are so mysterious.
On the medical front, magnets are now proven to do something.
http://www.livescience.com/health/080108-bad-magnets.html
#175 bi:look at financials and homebuilders today apparently it shows strength.
And how exactly do you define strength?
Lots of other ways to make bulks here, no need for me to be messing around with financials and homebuilders.
The US could probably clear the National Debt by selling about 40 States to Foreign Governments. With the Global Warming Issues, they should start divesting the costal states first, as they are most likely to be under water. Eventually, elections will be simpler, as we migrate to the one remaining state, and the Govenor becomes President. Unfortunately, it’s unlikely that the Foreign States will have a need for our Lawyers, Accountants, Western Medicine Types, etc.
Shore guy,
what do you do? engineering, tech background of some sort?
Ahead for Heating Oil Users: a Record-Shattering Winter
More are seeking assistance as the average bill tops $2,000
http://www.usnews.com/articles/business/2008/01/10/ahead-for-heating-oil-users-a-record-shattering-winter.html
I vote Gold Coast 2/2, but could try to trek out to Morristown.
Clot, others who vote Morristown, if I offered to buy your first drink would that sway you to come to the Gold Coast?
JM
waters,
I find the inverse ETFs excellent trading vehicles for short positions. You don’t need a margin account, and you can buy them in tax-deferred accounts. They’re good for hedging, for example, if you’re long a sector and want to protect profits you can buy an inverse sector ETF. You can get inverse and double inverse just about any index, style or sector.
Some of the common tickers are SH, SDS, DOG, MYY and many others. ProShares has a bunch of offerings.
“Clot, others who vote Morristown, if I offered to buy your first drink would that sway you to come to the Gold Coast?”
Not me. Being able to see Manhattan makes me think of work. I don’t like to think of work – it makes me cranky.
It sounds like Morristown is the people’s choice as far as location goes, much to my dismay and the dismay of all other NYC/gold-coast residents. Assuming M-town wins, maybe we can have a follow-up one in gold coast in a month?
BOA buy of CFC is fear– CFC airing their dirty laundry in bankruptcy court and then downgrades for BOA, who is one of their biggest junk loan suppliers.
184 herring
Sounds like a fair plan to me.
Bi,
Where would you prefer to meet?
RE Quick question: do any of you folks know of ways for small investors to easily short stocks? I’m aware of the risks of being short (unlimited loss potential).
Do not short stocks – buy options. Unless you have a prime brokerage account and are are a cash manager with lots of capital and plenty of time to watch the screens you will lose everytime. Plus people with true short positions get marked to market daily. Plus in a short you can lose many many times your investment.
Walmarts in the north are a bit different than the south.
Walmart in the north has people that walk in front of you getting out of a parking spot and give you a look like what are you doing. Did you not see the backup lights a-hole. They are like the squirrels that get 3/4 the way across the road as your driving down it then suddenly when they are just about to make it try and make a dash back the way they came. Squish. The annoying everyone must get through the guy who checks your receipt as you leave the store.
Walmart in the south is filled with people who just wander aimlessly blocking the entire isle. No one says excuse me in a southern walmart. But then the south doesnt have people checking your receipt as you leave the store like your a criminal.
Wacky Records – Woman Spends 3 Days In Walmart
http://madconomist.com/wacky-records-woman-spends-3-days-in-walmart
Yup its Georgia.
Target is a much nicer food shopping experience.
I am also Wal-Mart free for over a year now.
re: 180 Kettle1
I was in the Midwest over the Holidays, and there was allot of advertising for Corn Burning Stoves over the airwaves. My family also would also not turn on the gas fireplace, except for Christmas day.
My next home will have a real fireplace, wood burning stove or perhaps even Geothermal Heating.
Someone here earlier mentioned LNG terminals. We will need them. Our indigenous supply in the U.S. is declining rapildy and without LNG tankers and regassifcation plants the supplies will become very expensive. BP is building a new plant in Logan Twp NJ. Exxon Mobile wants to get in the action too with an offshore plant 20 miles off of the NJ coast.
Bi,
Where would you prefer to meet?
And what color is the sky there?
It was mentioned above that we might be a startup seeking VC money.
MPI has been around since 1984 and has raised more than $8 million from Angels. We also completed four SBIR Contracts with the DOD on the work of our subsidary, Room Temperature Superconductors Inc.
Although VCs are interested in us, I was once a consultant on VC to the Economic Development Administration and so far, we have not sought VC funding. At this point, five multi-billion dollar firms are evaluating our technology for licensing. Two are discussing Joint Ventures. I doubt we will need VC money.
Feel free to contact me if you would like more information. magneticpower@gmail.com or phone 707 829-9391 direct.
Hi…need an address for listing 2471059. Thanks!
#193
1 Private Road
Harding, nj
Thanks for the quick response Sybarite!
#195
No Problem; not sure if that helps though. I tried looking up that address in Google maps, but i don’t think it was accurate.
Probably have to contact the agent to find out the exact location.
This is another good Peak Oil resource:
http://www.energybulletin.net/
From calculated risk…
MBA: I Can Haz Accountentz?
What happens when a reporter straps on a decent-sized pack of skepticism about a trade association’s PRs and picks up the phone. It’s like so totally cool.
Floyd “Maybe This Isn’t Just Subprime” Norris in the New York Times:
And now the banks are begging the accounting rule makers to allow them to ignore a rule that has been on the books for almost 15 years. They explain that they never had any idea that they would have to restructure a lot of home mortgages, and thus had no reason to develop systems to deal with the accounting for such restructurings.
“No one anticipated a day when potentially hundreds of thousands of residential mortgage loans would be modified,” said Alison Utermohlen, an official of the Mortgage Bankers Association who has led the effort to get the accounting rules relaxed.
She said many members of the association did not have computer systems adequate to comply with the rule, but she did not identify any specific banks. . . .
The accounting rule in question, Financial Accounting Standard 114, was adopted in 1993. Lynn E. Turner, a former chief accountant of the Securities and Exchange Commission, recalls that it was enacted because of abuses by financial institutions during the savings and loan debacle. Under the old rule, banks could avoid reporting losses so long as they expected to get the principal back eventually, even if the borrower did not have to pay interest on the restructured loan. The rule put an end to that.
Or at least it put an end to it for most types of loans. These banks live with F.A.S. 114 for their commercial mortgages and corporate loans, but according to Ms. Utermohlen, they don’t have systems in place to do the calculations for large numbers of restructured residential mortgage loans.
The calculations, it turns out, are not that complicated. You could do them with a decent financial calculator, or an Excel spreadsheet. But the banks argue that would take too much effort, given the volume of loans likely to be restructured. “This would be extremely time-consuming and would likely involve additional staff dedicated to this purpose,” Ms. Utermohlen said in a letter to the Financial Accounting Standards Board this week.
Will the banks win this argument? It appears to be one that they want to win without having to actually admit that any specific bank has a problem at all. I called five members of the Mortgage Bankers Association that are represented on the committee that Ms. Utermohlen said she worked with: Citigroup, JPMorgan Chase, Bank of America, Countrywide Financial and Washington Mutual. Countrywide said that its computer systems were adequate to comply with F.A.S. 114, but that it felt it would be “less burdensome from an operational standpoint” if the rule could be ignored. None of the other four told me whether their systems were adequate.
Thanks, Floyd, for joining the team. Whenever they’re going out of their way to look stupid (“we have no one on staff who can actually use Excel”), the pea is under the other shell. And yes, it is always worth asking why we give bank charters to people who can’t discount a cash flow with both hands and a flashlight.
Can someone with MLS access please provide any information on the status of two new construction houses at 58 and 56 Stuyvesant Ct in Clifton?
They’ve been finished and on the market for some time. There are Remax signs on the lawns, but I cannot find any info on gsmls.com. Thanks in advance!
http://money.cnn.com/news/newsfeeds/articles/newstex/AFX-0013-22194679.htm
Bi,
You’re right things are looking better already.
MM
Someone here earlier mentioned LNG terminals. We will need them. Our indigenous supply in the U.S. is declining rapildy and without LNG tankers and regassifcation plants the supplies will become very expensive.
However, unlike our indigenous gas supply, LNG is a worldwide commodity with strong demand coming from Europe & Japan. Paying for LNG with a weak dollar could get painful.
– $200
Reference to an article called “Mozilo ‘bullish’ till the ‘end’. And we all know what comes out of the ‘end’ of a ‘bull’.
P.S., he’s going to get $110m severance.
http://news.google.ca/news/url?sa=t&ct=ca/0-0&fp=4787604ce4a06fff&ei=uKqHR-WeN4qsqwOFtaiyDA&url=http%3A//www.reuters.com/article/mergersNews/idUSN1129058920080111&cid=1126138263
hey grim, who wants to have our next meeting here??? ;)
Free Sex at Prague Brothel Tests Taboo as Reality Romps Hit Web
Jan. 10 (Bloomberg) — If you want to watch Nick having sex with a prostitute, he’s happy to let you.
The 36-year-old bank-security technician drove eight hours from his home in Metz, France, to Big Sister, a Prague brothel where customers peruse a touch-screen menu of blondes, brunettes and redheads available for free. The catch is clients have to let their exploits be filmed and posted on the Internet. continued
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601109&sid=a6C0QuB5G6Ys
202 nj patient
-$200, what does that mean?
Check out the arrogance of this seller.
http://newyork.craigslist.org/jsy/rfs/535359193.html
Jaywalk,
I found 56 Stuyvesant Active under NJMLS# 2733242
2604931 (To be built)
ACT 56 STUYVESANT CT $679,000 2/9/2006
PCH 56 STUYVESANT CT $649,000 6/28/2006
EXP 56 STUYVESANT CT $649,000 8/21/2006 (Expired)
2702920
ACT 56 STUYVESANT CT $629,000 1/22/2007
PCH 56 STUYVESANT CT $599,000 7/3/2007
EXP 56 STUYVESANT CT $599,000 7/23/2007
2733242
ACT 56 STUYVESANT CT $599,900 8/13/2007
PCH 56 STUYVESANT CT $589,900 10/25/2007
PCH 56 STUYVESANT CT $619,900 11/6/2007
PCH 56 STUYVESANT CT $589,000 11/27/2007
ACT* 56 STUYVESANT CT $589,000 1/8/2008
ARR 56 STUYVESANT CT $589,000 1/10/2008
58 Stuyvesant started at $679,000 on 2/9/06 (listing expired twice) and went under contract on 11/16 after many price changes to $569,900 on 11/16.
Rich
#204 – Kettle – I think he was referencing the Dow, which is down 200pts. (227.69 right now).
“-$200, what does that mean?”
-$229!
207 tosh
ding!
make money Says:
January 11th, 2008 at 9:51 am
#88, Lewis will be seen as the bad guy while he’s cutting the fat and laying off 50% of the old CW’s workforce. With the backing of the fed and BoA CW will survivce until 2010 all while gaining market share.
Where is “Chainsaw” Al Dunlap when you need hime?
Correction:
…went under contract on 11/16 after many price changes to $569,900 on 11/6.
Also, within the listing for 58 Stuyvesant:
“BUILDER OFFERS BUYERS $5,000 FURNITURE CREDIT.”
Estimated closing: 12/14/07
kettle 198
I find it a little comforting to know that if somebody puts out some breadcrumbs, maybe another somebody out there will connect the dots.
#157
Thanks grim, we are in Atty review. My atty doesn’t like the dates or a lot of the restrictions. If the home inspection next week doesn’t throw up anything unusual, we should be good for a mid Feb close.
# 203
I guess that is a better thing than walking into a brothel and finding one’s wife working there.
Ooooh, gold at 901 an ounce!
“Ooooh, gold at 901 an ounce!”
$2,000, baby!
not that I have a clue…
216 Spot or futures?
Someone remind me, what is the initiating event for the first circut breaker?
http://realestate.msn.com/Buying/Article_mw.aspx?cp-documentid=5921241>1=10833
Do you owe more than your house is worth?
If so, you’re not alone. But don’t despair — a number of workout options are available to struggling homeowners who are willing to pick up the phone and contact their lender.
By Lew Sichelman, MarketWatch
nj patient
i think my gold jumpout point may be around 1700
#218 – Futures, March delivery.
#219 – I thought it was 5% downward and they halt for 1/2 hour (or something like that).
Where can i buy put options for gold? I want to do this to protect capital.
Seems I was a bit off;
If the Dow should drop 10% before 2 p.m., the NYSE shuts down trading for an hour, and for thirty minutes if the drop occurs between 2 and 2:30 p.m. Any 10% drop occurring after that time has no effect. At 20% there is a two-hour halt to trading if the drop occurs before 1 p.m., a one-hour halt if it occurs between 1 p.m. and 2 p.m. A 20% drop after 2 p.m. and a 30% drop at any time will cause the market to shut down for the rest of the day.
Saudi billionaire Prince Alwaleed may invest as much as $15 billion to help out cash-strapped Citigroup (C – Cramer’s Take – Stockpickr – Rating), CNBC reports.
If it is 5% thaqt is 643 pt drop. Even with recent selloffs at the end of the day I doubt we will see that today. If we do, though, I wonder if we will get an instant half-point reduction from the Fed?
Any thoughts from those far brighter than I?
Nevermind, lol.
Shore 219
Failure of networked systems
http://tinyurl.com/2abfzb
This is an article on “theoildrum.com”. It discusses modern market interconnectedness overall and is fairly interesting if a bit long.
The point is that almost all markets whether energy, financial or food markets are interconnected. This gives rise to a complex system and for anyone who has ever studied advanced math topics you will be familiar with the concept that complex systems can crash due to very small influences that have effects far beyond the magnitude of the individual event ( i.e a butterfly flaps its wings in peru and it causes a thunderstorm in texas, also connected to chaos theory).
In a system as complex as the global system we as a species have built, the trigger for a major collapse can be a very small event that pushes the system out of stability upon which the system becomes chaotic until it settles into a new equilibrium.
10K people in the US defaulting on loans is small on global scales but could be the butterfly in peru, or perhaps not, only time will tell
It’s 2pm, where is my 250 point reversal?
pgc (73)-
NEVER, EVER, EVER use a RE company’s mortgage arm. They never have the best rates, fees, programs or service. They exist only to “cream” business from too-busy or too-ignorant borrowers.
toshiro, shore,
can you guys give a little history on why that “circuit breaker” setup is used?
Ewwwwwwwwww…
http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20080111/wl_uk_afp/britainchildrenadoptionmarriage
3b (77)-
CFC is midstream in its own draconian layoff program. Their non-essential and non-performing backoffice and origination people are being whacked at a furious pace.
Of course, most originators who leave are doing so of their own volition. The 2-3 I know who are still holding on keep me updated on which programs CFC is dumping (it’s several per week).
BTW, the Fannie/Freddie surcharges due to hit in March have already been priced in by all lenders. If your FICOs are under 700, get ready for 50-250 bp hits.
grim (229)-
The Carribbean trading desk is at the beach today. Been a tough week.
“grim Says:
January 11th, 2008 at 1:57 pm
It’s 2pm, where is my 250 point reversal?”
PPT must be finishing a late lunch.
#231 – kettle – The circuit breakers (aka downside trading curbs) were implemented following Black Monday (1987) in order to prevent that sort of run-away sell off.
Some fun links. NYSE;
http://www.nyse.com/press/circuit_breakers.html
and the ever helpful wiki;
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trading_curbs
If Morristown wins, my friend owns the Calaloo Cafe on South Street, could probably work something out.
sl (113)-
Penske “SmartCar” = moving van pointed toward Charlotte, with wife and two snarling kids in tow.
grim Says:
January 11th, 2008 at 8:56 am
JP Morgan buying Wamu?
This I would count towards one of my predictions if it came true. WAMU was actually one of the banks I was thinking of.
make (122)-
Agreed. This merger has Fed/PPT fingerprints all over it.
However, why try to game this? Just dial up gold, put your finger on the “Buy” button, press and hold.
All disclaimers known to man.
ReTard (142)-
“I’ll be buying a house during the spring”
Hey, thanks! That’s a great slogan for the NJ Vulture Fund.
Shore (171)-
Hickory, d#ckory, dock…
#233 clot: and this so called merger will only accelerate the layoff process.
#230 Clot
I understand what you say. RE companies usually white label some other companies products and services.
At the end of the day it comes down to the numbers and that is balanced against convienence.
re: 225 Bingo, I called the Prince Alwaleed baliout yesterday before Cramer. Perhaps Cramer is using njrereport.com as a source now?
3b (242)-
I like the idea of the Countryslide kiosk inside BofA branches.
That’s like putting a toilet in the middle of your lobby.
Also, I don’t think orange fits with BofA’s red/blue graphics.
kettle1,
Thanks for that link to the blog on EEStor. Great read & very interesting. It appears that Lockhead Martin’s involvement gives promise to EEstors technology. However, after reading the blog, I came across a link to another, maybe even better technology.
http://news-service.stanford.edu/news/2008/january9/nanowire-010908.html
To sum it up, I think in 10 years we will have the ability to quickly charge devices that are light weight enough (50-100lbs) and will drive a car 500+ miles. So we only have 10 more years of high gas prices:)
Gold is good for a coming Recession, but conservatively, I would hedge Gold with Canned Goods, Seed, and a hunting rifle, in case it becomes a Depression.
Confused,
You are forgetting water filtration & fishing gear.
New Etf that may be of interest:
http://seekingalpha.com/article/59817-mining-black-gold-with-new-coal-etf
248 TJ
Water Filtration yes, fishing gear No. If it doesn’t say moo, I won’t eat it. Too much mercury keeps me awake at night.
Federal law also bars banks from acquisitions that would increase market share above 10 percent of U.S. deposits, a limit that Bank of America is nearing. Bank of America chief financial officer Joe Price said because Countrywide Bank us a federally regulated thrift, it “doesn’t play into the deposit cap.”
In addition, banking industry experts say Bank of America could easily lower the total amount of money held in deposits by decreasing interest rates and shedding deposits
Neat trick for BOA to lower their Interest Rates. Didn’t think you could get lower then BOA gives.
#245 clot: That’s like putting a toilet in the middle of your lobby.
That comment is one for the books, absolutely hysterical.
Actually industry experts are right, BOA has already lowered rates substantially, and shed my liquid assets from BOA to Hudson City Savings Bank and Affinity Credit Union. They are Brick & Morter with excellent rates.
off topic, but worth a good laugh.
“What are you doing here?”: man asks wife
http://www.reuters.com/article/newsOne/idUSL0910395120080109
I realize I have to change my voted for date to 1/26
http://www.singerdeutsch.com/CM/Custom/Financial-Industry-Layoffs.html
Sign of the times, layoffs on Wall St.
Confused’s doomsday scenario at 247 made realize I hadn’t read one of Richard Daughty’s (aka The Mogambo Guru) amusing rants at Daily Reckoning in while.
Came across this:
Richard Schwartz of the Principles of the Stock Market newsletter is quoted in Barron’s as saying, “It’s not going to be the American consumer that rolls over first this time. This time, it’s the financial system which is breaking down first. And then, after that, the very stressed, overburdened U.S. consumer will be forced to cut back because of rising unemployment.”
Seems like the consumer isn’t waiting for the job losses to cut back.
Rich
I give you Chainsaw Al, and not a peep from anyone?
Probably because you followed it with married twins.
http://www.propertyroom.com/itemdetails.aspx?l=3657969
I am getting this car for a grand instead of E320, should be faster and scare the dickens out of people when I pull up behind them.
TJ
To sum it up, I think in 10 years we will have the ability to quickly charge devices that are light weight enough (50-100lbs) and will drive a car 500+ miles. So we only have 10 more years of high gas prices:)
This is a great tech, the only draw back is that people do not realize what a catastrophic containing that energy would look like.
gasoline has an energy density of 45 MJ/gal; assume combustion engine efficiency of 30%, so a range of 300 miles at 30 miles per gallon – 10 gallons of gasoline or 450MJ of energy in your gas tank.
The catastrophic failure mode of capacitors is instant and complete discharge. basically anything near this would look overdone bacon. This scenario would be rare but will probably occur on occasion. Ultimately the risk is not significantly different then a tank fuel of gasoline…
on Feb 15th paycheck lots of BDs and Banks get their bonus and we get the choice to put our 15.5 k in 401K in lump sum or dollar cost per year. Love to know what most BD people are doing, if we think the year is lousy we will dollar cost, if we think the year will be great we do the lump sum. To bad I can’t get a stat what everyone is doing.
Dumb question: when your post is awaiting moderation on this blog, what does that mean? On other blogs you can’t see your post until the owner lets it through, but here I can see my post #137 which is awaiting moderation.
No reversal for me?
Know anyone at Merrill who can confirm this?
http://www.dealbreaker.com/2008/01/like_feces_throwing_monkeys_me.php#comments
-$300
&P Slashes CDO Ratings
By KATHY SHWIFF
January 11, 2008 1:33 p.m.
Standard & Poor’s lowered its ratings on 149 tranches from 31 U.S. cash flow and hybrid collateralized debt obligation transactions worth a total of $8.74 billion.
S&P placed its ratings on four other tranches on watch for possible downgrades. The ratings agency affirmed its ratings on another 46 tranches.
All of the downgraded tranches come from mezzanine structured finance CDOs of asset-backed securities, high-grade structured finance CDOs of asset-backed securities, or CDO of CDO transactions collateralized by U.S. residential mortgage-backed securities.
The ratings on 54 of the downgraded tranches remain on CreditWatch with negative implications, indicating a significant likelihood of further downgrades.
jmac #266, only you can see it while it’s in moderaton. No one else can. It knows you by the cookie with the name and mail values.
From the AP:
NovaStar Laying Off 85 Percent of Staff
That fateful phone call in full
NakedShorts’ correspondent David S. Products has passed along the transcript of yesterday’s telephone conversation between Ken Bofa, and his regulator, Fred Reserve:
http://nakedshorts.typepad.com/nakedshorts/2008/01/that-fateful-ph.html
i’m looking for some financial advice here. and i apologize if that is not condoned here on the site. but i do value the opinions expressed in the posts.
i’m 3oyrs old and recently married. my wife and i paid for our wedding (combined income at 150k) and have some carry over debt. we did not “do well” at the wedding in terms of monetary gifts so we are still carrying around 14k at 0% interest until June. my question is; since savings rates are so low (5.25%)and we only have about 20k saved, should i just take that money out to pay off the debt and start fresh from ground zero or continue to equally chip away at both savings and debt?
our careers/salary have been on a upward increase around 5-10% each year so i’m trying to determine the best way to gain some traction on our measly nest egg.
thanks for your thoughts and suggestions.
The caliber of input we have on this board is pretty impressive and quite expansive…
kettle,
you could say that for your posts alone. I’m amazed at how much knowledge a 10 year old brain can contain ;)
back to lurking
It really depends on what rate you’ll be charged once the “no interest” period is over. I’ll wager a guess and say you’ll probably be hit pretty hard in June, so paying it off is a priority. That doesn’t mean paying it off immediately. You can make a few dollars in interest over the next few months, so take it.
The payoff is going to really bite into that nest egg, so save like hell over the next few months.
If you really can’t stomach writing a $14k check, forgo the interest and start making hefty monthly payments. I trust you have at least some discipline, however. With your income you should be able to save enough over the next few months to keep your nest egg intact after the loan payment.
Paying it off early will leave you debt free, but it will leave you without any cushion. As long as that loan is interest free, take advantage of the terms.
# 274
I for one adhere to the quaint notion that it is better to be debt free than not. Your options are to forego earning interest and pay off the debt, continue to earn some limited interest for a few months, or forego the interest and throw the money into the market. With things declining, I woud not be inclined to do so (although some would, likely correctly, recomend gold) at the moment. When I look at the interest that can be earned over the short haul vs. the psychic benefit of being debt free, I would sleep better being debt free. Doing so prevents “something” from popping up and preventing you from being able to pay off before the interest starts to accrue.
# 275 thanks
I have been working hard on my multiplication tables and hope to ace my final exams this year. I know that 6th grade math will be harder but my friend Joe in sixth grade with mrs jones said that he thought it was easy. It might also help that joe sent all the solutions to his home work to my facebook account.
Oh, can anyone tell me the best way to invest a $20/wk allowance? given that i am ten and would like to retire at 50, i have 40 yr horizon and would consider myself to have a high risk tolerance in my investment strategy due to the fact that mom and dad will still support me even if i get hit with a margin call.
Please check my math since you are all bankers here.
at 20$/wk until the age of 18 assuming an average of 8% return gives me $11,247.19 at age 18. Then i will assume that i contribute $250 per month from the age of 18 to 50 so i should end up with $534,649.81
Is that enough to retire on? would a large exposure to international stocks with a helping of commodities and tech stocks be a high risk high growth spread that would work? Thanks for your time i know that important adults dont have much time for us kids :(
at that is 52*8
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grim / shore
thank you very much and agree with your assesments. however, my wife can not shutter the thought of taking down the savings. i think a compromise is in order, like keeping 10k saved and paying 10k debt.
thanks again.
i too am a newlywed and still learning the art of compromise.
If you have 14K in credit card debt and 14K in the bank you have zero dollars. Funny a 25 year old girl who works with me just took out a 20K car loan cause she did not want to spend 20K out of her bank account. Better yet I like when people have a chase mortgage at 7.5% and have money in Chase savings at 2%. So chase borrows your money at 2% and loans it back to tyou at 7.5%, or even better a chase credit card at 17% with money in chase at 2%. I just don’t get it.
The guy with the zero teaser and 4% money market is doing the right thing but when the teaser is done to continue to do it is nuts. Plus 20K to a couple making 150K is just a couple of months savings anyhow.
Actually, it is the art of capitulation.
Secondary Market Says:
January 11th, 2008 at 4:26 pm
i too am a newlywed and still learning the art of compromise.
# 279
Keeping some reserve $ is always good. Two years worth of expenses is a good minimum. Still, your wife also needs to realize that — with the debt you owe — your savings, really isn’t. It may be handy in an emergency, but you still have a hunk of debt there. Perhaps the middle ground is to reduce the debt by $7-10,000 and then use current $ to pay off the rest over 3-4 months. Then, after the debt is paid, keep putting aside the $ you were using to pay down the debt and put it into some form of savings.
#274 I’d pay off the debt now and start fresh but it would also be ok to pay 2333/mo through June. Just have it paid off before you have to pay interest. And don’t go into debt again until you buy a nice reasonably priced house with a 15 yr fixed. And also don’t pay any attention to my financial advice – I’m a money moron who had a really inexpensive wedding.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/ap_most_millionaires
# 282
Wht is it that the wife in My Big Fat Greek Wedding said to her daughter? Something like: “Yes your father is the head of the family. But I am the neck and can turn the head any way I want to.”
#279
If you are earning this amount, you should be able to max out your 401(k), a Roth (gawd how I wise we were eligible for Roth, it is a sweet deal), and also paying yourselves with after tax $ into some reasonably-liquid investment. If you are not doing this, you are shortchanging yourselves for short-term benefits of extra meals out, bigger car, etc.
Everyone should “pay themselves first. If, perchance, you are self employed. The individual 401(k) will let you put away over 30,000 a year tax free.
Hi Guys,
Any sold information on 4 seasons at troy hills, parsippany? I am tring to findout if anybody is buying these KHOV towhhouses?
I tried with Morris county tax site but no records are available and zillow also has no records. I think the street name is kelly or kelley lane.
Thanks
# 284 “I’m a money moron who had a really inexpensive wedding.”
I am all for inexpensive weddings. I had one and will encourage my childern to do so also. The important thing is the marriage not the party after the ceremony. It is far better to put $ into the first house, or to pay off student loans etc. and begin debt free or with reduced debt than it is to buy into the wedding industry.
Hillary feels 70B stimulus will do the trick.
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=aZXrNqfH8fdc&refer=home
Congress to be prepared to enact a $40 billion tax rebate for middle-income families ‘if the economy continues to weaken’.
The plan includes a $30 billion fund to help homeowners avoid foreclosure, $25 billion to help families with rising energy bills, $10 billion to extend unemployment insurance and $5 billion to invest in alternative energy programs.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/ap_most_millionaires
That is crazy they count NJ Millionaire by including 401K money. Nuts.
I heard Obama is planing to sue NJ for any former slaves who live in NJ. He doesn’t care about the slavery part he is upset that they got forced to live in NJ.
#288 Shore Guy
Amen to that. The wife and I will be married a year this March, and we did the destination thing. Had 5 days in the islands with our closest friends and family, got married on the beach, _and_ threw a party back home in June for everybody else for far less than it would have cost us to do the “traditional” thing.
Of course, all that money saved is now queued up for a down payment :)
Hey nothing wrong with Dad paying for an expensive wedding, Father of Bride pays 100% for wedding. However, groom needs to pay for place to live (house 25% down joint title), limo, flowers, honeymoon, rings and all moving related costs for girl and rehersal dinner. If groom does that I will write a check for 30k in a heartbeat. But if groom cheaps out I pay zero and blame groom for not toting his line.
Actually, I paid for my own wedding last of 4 kids to get married and knew what relatives give, an expensive wedding you have the cheapskates who give two hundred a couple even if the place costs 300 a couple. If you do too cheap, VFW or something the cheap $200 people knock it down to $100 a couple. I figured moderate would workbest and went for a 15K wedding and got 14K back. Too cheap your are screwed too expensive you are screwed.
Shore Guy Says:
January 11th, 2008 at 4:41 pm
# 284 “I’m a money moron who had a really inexpensive wedding.”
I am all for inexpensive weddings. I had one and will encourage my childern to do so also. The important thing is the marriage not the party after the ceremony. It is far better to put $ into the first house, or to pay off student loans etc. and begin debt free or with reduced debt than it is to buy into the wedding industry.
# 291 Congratulations. Better to have the DP than an ephermeral party. Better to have a one-year aviv party (or such) in your back yard, on your deck, etc.
I have come to be a big fan of cruise or destination weddings.
Does anyone have any insight about Highland Park (Middlesex County)? The market seems dead (sellers aren’t lowering their prices, and houses are just sitting). We keep hearing the argument that the town is immune to large price drops, because a large Orthodox population keeps demand high. If the market continues to remain stagnant, we’re considering renting a house when the lease on our tiny apartment comes up (we now have a toddler), but even the rental prices seem much higher than they should be. Thoughts?
Wow what a re bull concept, someone who got married in spring 2006 had a big wedding and fancy car and spent money and enjoyed life is way ahead of the dope who lived like a miser and bought a house right away. You think buying a house is a good investment it is not. Back in 1987-1990 a few friends got married young and bought into that RE hype and got stuck with huge mortgage hanging over their heads for 30 years. Was that smart, no.
Buying a house is debt not an investment. Being 20K in debt from a wedding is better than being 300K in debt from a house.
RE agents lie when they say you are investing in a house or buying a house as if to imply you are investing your own money on something guranteed to make a profit, instead you are taking on huge debt and rolling a dice.
Plus sometime Dad has to pay, if my daughter lands a great guy willing to buy her a house, new car and is all for kids and letting my wife stay home one day and I have to spend 25K towards the wedding that is an investment. A cop marrying a secretary spending 40K on a wedding and moving to a basement apartment is not an investment.
” marriage not the party after the ceremony. It is far better to put $ into the first house, or to pay off student loans etc. and begin debt free or with reduced debt than it is to buy into the wedding industry.
#294
I like Highland Park. Cute little town. Can’t say anything about the local real-estate market, however.
# 292. I do not disagree with you. Still, imagine they spend $5-10 on the wedding, by maybe having an early afternoon wedding followed by a garden reception with light refreshments. By doing so, perhaps mom and dad will be inclined to help out with 10-20,000 towards the downpayment on that first house. In the final analysis they are better off.
I have been to some OVER-THE-TOP weddings that cost twice as much as my first house ($150,000, the house that is) and then seen the couple split in a short time. If one can go out and buy the first house with cash, then, by all means, knock yourself out with an over-the-top party. If nor, admit to yourself that you are not wealthy and dont try to throw a party like those who are. There is no shame in modest receptions.
I like Highland Park, too. We go there to eat from time to time. Nice, walkable, if somewhat small, downtown.
I check highland park out on realtor.com every now and then too. I’m not tracking prices I’ll admit, but I haven’t really noticed low prices there. It’s expensive. And the houses aren’t all that nice looking. Metuchen is nicer, too bad it’s surrounded by Edison.
# 295 “Buying a house is debt not an investment”
I agree, at least in terms of one’s main residence. We count neither our main home nor our vehicles in our net worth calculations.
A principal residence needs to be looked at first as a place to live, sleep, rear children. If it manages to appreciate ahead of inflation or the rate that could have been earned elsewhere, so be it. People seem to ignore both the opportunity costs of purchasing a home and the time value of money (just because the value is so much higher now than when it was purchased does not mean you did not lose money on the purchase).
The problem with that is now the guest are going to have to deal with the uncomfortableness of giving a cheap gift or feeling screwed. Plus you still need the church if you are catholic. I hate those type of things, I went to one gave a cheap 150 gift as a couple felt bad about giving a cheap gift but it was a crap wedding in a backyard and felt I would fell like a bigger dope giving my usual $250 for snacks. Next time I was invited to one of those junk weddings I declined and sent a gift from Fortunoff. I was not going to pay for 5 hours baby sitting and a $150 dollar gift to sit in a hot smelly backyard. Rather go to Peter Lugars!!! I don’t care if people want to save money but don’t get me involved in it. They should just have a small wedding and invite immediate family only, forcing 2nd cousins into a crap wedding is no fun for anyone.
# 292. I do not disagree with you. Still, imagine they spend $5-10 on the wedding, by maybe having an early afternoon wedding followed by a garden reception with light refreshments. By doing so, perhaps mom and dad will be inclined to help out with 10-20,000 towards the downpayment on that first house. In the final analysis they are better off.
GO GIANTS!
#300 John
I agree with most of your points, but for us it wasn’t all about the money. We’ve sat through enough long, boring weddings to know that it wasn’t for us. Being that it was a destination gig we weren’t expecting much, because people had to travel… but all told we made out in the positive which was nice.
#298
We’ve been looking at Metuchen, too. We prefer HP for its community spirit and walkable downtown. Plus, my husband is a psychologist in town, and it’s shrink row. The odd thing is that Metuchen has tended to be a much more expensive town, but the market is declining at a much faster rate in Metuchen than in HP.
Highland Park is a nice town, however be prepared for sticker shock when you get your tax bill – they’re almost 2x higher than neighboring towns. Bear in mind that much of the housing stock is old and some owners have done much better jobs at upkeep than others. The town is a mix of Orthodox Jews, RU faculty and grad students, and random oddballs. Something like 60% of the town’s residents are renters though, due to the large student population.
294 Ambrose
We looked at Highland Park for a day. We got the impression that it’s very Orthodox Jewish or conservative Jewish. We concluded it wasn’t for us (not being Jewish). I think renting there for a year to try it out would be ok though. The rents are probably high because of the RU demand.
#279 –
if your wife can’t stand the thought of taking down the whole savings, take it down anyway. it will give her an incentive to save more to bring it back up, and it’s the smart thing to do.
274 trying
I think, just mentally and emotionally, it would be better to get the debt taken care of and move on from the wedding expense with a clean state, both financially and emotionally.
Maybe let it sit til June if the 0% appeals to you or just get it over with and move on.
274
The problem with paying off the CC debt is that it kills your emergency fund.
What will the interest rate pop to in June?
In an emergency ( I know, this can NEVER happen), it can be expensive to pull cash out from a CC.
Try to pay down as much as possible before then from current funds, then try to xfer to another CC at 0%.
#28
Sad but true.
#282, not 28
306 t c m
That’s a good point. Paying off the CC, even if it wipes out your savings, just motivates you to build the savings back up quicker. Plus in this case, they would still have a bit of savings even after paying it off.
I don’t know, CC debt drove me nuts. The only thing worse is owing a relative money. That’s the WORST.
Another one who likes HP. Its religious mix and selection of kosher restaurants would be a plus for us.
The Manor area has lovely homes.
Unfortunately want a bigger lot than you can find in the area.
Transfer it now to an account that gives you 0% for one year. Why wait until June? Then pay $1,000 a month and have it taken directly out of savings.
If you pay it all off now you will still have $6,000 left and you make ok money. Just make sure that you avoid paying interest.
Re: BoA tax benefits from buying CWF
From CNN:
http://money.cnn.com/2008/01/11/news/companies/sloan_countrywide.fortune/index.htm?postversion=2008011114
make:
did you sell the CFC?
Oops. That’s BOA and CFC.
we made $76 a head on my wedding. unfortunately it cost us $130 and paid for it ourselves. bad financially but still one of the best days of my life.
if i have a daughter and not a multi-millionaire, i’m totally pushing for the destination or backyard wedding. it’s truly foolish to have an over the top wedding.
Weddings
A friend spent $115K on her wedding on the hills of Malibu, complete with live butterflies at the ceremony’s end. Marriage lasted 2 years. Wasted $.
Destination weddings are definitely the way to go. That is exactly what I wanted but allowed myself to be pressured into a big showy event.
One plus was that I worked at the time in events sales at a fancy 5 star hotel so I got 50% off everything.
Even so, due to the excessive cheapness of my husbands extended family we just broke even.
I’m sad to say, I hated the entire day (except for my dress which was very pretty).
However, for various reasons we had to have a second, civil ceremony, which we held at City Hall Manhattan. I loved it, just me, my husband and one witness. It was short, sweet, dignified and actually meant more to me because the focus was on our vows, not on the pomp and the primping and “what Aunt Rina will say about…..”. Then we went to a diner across the street for lunch and to the top of the World Trade Center to look at the view (glad I got the chance). A memorable day indeed.
The only other alternative I would accept now would be getting married by Elvis in Vegas because that kind of cheese is just priceless.
From LA Times:
http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-socal12jan12,0,2077530.story?coll=la-home-center
my brother got married in vegas. it cost me $1000 for gift, flight, room etc. cost to him was $250; divorced in 2 years. i suppose i’m really bad at this wedding finance.
What’s a few more billion?!
From Market Watch:
Bankers’ write-downs
UBS $13.7 bln
Citigroup *$13.7 bln
Morgan Stanley $10.3 bln
Merrill Lynch $8.4 bln
HSBC $3.4 bln
Bank of America *$3.3 bln
Deutsche Bank $3.1 bln
Barclays $2.7 bln
Royal Bank of Scotland $2.6 bln
Credit Agricole $2.3 bln
Bear Stearns $1.9 bln
Credit Suisse $1.9 bln
JP Morgan Chase $1.6 bln
Goldman Sachs $1.5 bln
Wachovia Bank $1.1 bln
Lehman Bros. $0.8 bln
Total: $72.3 bln
Data: Companies, since Q3
I am laughing so hard, I can barely write.”crap wedding” “made $76 a head.” Are we talking cattle here? Guys, it’s a WEDDING, you’re supposed to invite people to share in the joy of the occasion, regardless of what they give you. For the record, I had a small church wedding, reception at my new in-laws’ house, immediate family and a few close friends only. The wedding cake was a gift, we used family crystal, china and sterling and made our own champagne punch. It was the nicest wedding I have ever been to and it cost a grand total of $400(not including the rings). I am not kidding.
Ha…me too about the laughing. The dreaded “It’s a party” versus “You pay your food bill” argument.
We avoided the whole thing and got married in Vegas, too. We had to – after all, we met in A.C.
It cost about a grand, including flight, our top floor suite for four days at Caesar’s (and my Roulette winnings).
I had a wedding dress, but only my niece and her fiance to stand up for us. We had the entire restaurant downstairs in Bellagio for our reception…just the four of us. We each had our own waiter.
But that was because nobody else was at the restaurant at 4 in the afternoon!
We still laugh everytime we go to a blow-out wedding. What a great time we had at our basically free wedding.
GO GIANTS.
I had a $5,000. rule for my daughter’s weddings…They could take the $5,000.00 and elope if they wanted to. My oldest (30 now) wanted a church wedding..on the campus of her college in Portland Or. It was beautiful..250 people or so…the reception at a local racket club – nice neighborhood. Friends prepared all of the cheeses, pates, simple fare..wine and champagne provided by a family friend.
My younger daughter (28 now) rented a park outside of Eugene OR for 3 days at a cost of $400.00. That gave us a day for set up – the wedding – then time for folks to sleep in and pack up on Sunday. They had 9 cabins-like structures for several plus all of the camping space a person could ask for. Local folks brought the flowers out and we all pitched in.
The largest cost there was for the “food guy.” Honest – that’s what they called him – (He was just starting out in catering and had a tool belt with a drill – AND A BLACK PEPPER MILL attached to the bit. Cracked me up! BBQ chicken and tons of other stuff. A family friend made an array of cakes.. Two local bands performed at a mininmal cost..
It was basically a three-day party.
Very different..both awesome weddings – both exactly like my daughters..
Oh yeah – RE last post..both came in over budget – but not by much..
Pat (324)-
I heard the etiquette in Pennsyltucky decrees that everyone at the wedding pays a sawbuck to dance with the bride, and her dad pimps the dances.
True?
Cindy must be a west coast thing weddings don’t go down like that in NJ.But it sure sounds like fun.
Pat: I had my wedding in Mercersburg PA. My wife grew up in Chambersburg, which is about 30 miles west of the Gettysburg battlefields. We rented out the entire Mercersburg Inn and so everyone had a room in the wedding party and all the aunts and uncles as well. Most of the guest stayed at B&B’s in town that were walking distance. Dinner rocked, but the brunch blew the doors off.
It was 1999, but the whole thing was maybe $10,000. It was a steal, plus no DUI. It was about 110 people.
The owners of the Mercersburg Inn turned over, but it is still a nice place.
http://www.mercersburginn.com/
See, this is a big f*cking problem. We’ve gone from barely a peep of economic turmoil reported by the MSM to a verbal onslaught. The biggest debt peddler in the world just went under and the seller’s still have the f*cking gall to demonstrate their stupity. I’ve seen double-wides with oodles more charm than this hole. A half-million dollars…. geezus, these sellers have balls.
http://www.realtor.com/realestate/harrington+park-nj-07640-1080564413/
mikeinwaiting..
Totally a west coast thing….
Citi Looking Abroad
For Major Investors
By DAVID ENRICH and ROBIN SIDEL
January 12, 2008
Prince Alwaleed bin Talal is poised to once again come to the rescue of Citigroup Inc.
This time, the Saudi billionaire is expected to be joined by other investors, including the China Development Bank, people familiar with the matter said.
While it isn’t clear how much Prince Alwaleed will invest, the Chinese entity is expected to invest roughly $2 billion, one person said. Prince Alwaleed’s total stake in Citigroup is likely to remain below 5% in order to avoid regulatory scrutiny. However, given that Citi has a stock-market value of $140 billion, even a 1% stake would end up being a significant sum of money.
While Citigroup is still working out details of the planned investments, and there’s a chance they could fall apart, the bank is hoping to collect a total of $8 billion to $10 billion from a number of investors, likely including at least one fund affiliated with a foreign government, the people said.
In 4 p.m. composite trading on the New York Stock Exchange, shares of Citi rose 45 cents to $28.56.
A spokesman for Prince Alwaleed’s Kingdom Holding Co. wasn’t immediately available late Friday. A Citigroup spokeswoman declined to comment.
China Development Bank’s investment may come in exchange for convertible bonds, the person said.
China Development Bank was set up in 1994 as one of the country’s three policy banks. On Dec. 31, China’s sovereign wealth fund China Investment Corp. made an infusion of $20 billion into the bank, in a move to turn the bank into a commercial lender.
This would be at least the third major investment by a Chinese institution in a struggling Wall Street firm. China Investment Corp. is investing $5 billion in Morgan Stanley, while Citic Securities Co. agreed to a $1 billion investment in Bear Stearns Cos., though Bear will also invest that amount in the Chinese firm, albeit over many years.
Citi is also talking to other existing shareholders, including U.S. investment funds, to potentially up their stake in the bank.
Here’s just what you want to see at the end of a week like this. From today’s Financial Times:
By Francesco Guerrera, Aline van Duyn and Daniel Pimlott,in New York
“The US is at risk of losing its top-notch triple-A credit rating within a decade unless it takes radical action to curb soaring healthcare and social security spending, Moody’s, the credit rating agency, said yesterday.
The warning over the future of the triple-A rating – granted to US government debt since it was first assessed in 1917 – reflects growing concerns over the country’s ability to retain its financial and economic supremacy.”
well outofstater, i can’t say i disagree with you 100% but i just don’t know how realistic that would have been for us. we spent about 20k and it was done extremely tastefully. we got luck in many ways in the sense that most of the vendors we chose were discounted for one reason or the other. for example, the reception hall was relatively new so the owner was looking to fill is calendar sooner than later and price was not a hang up. (same wedding will cost twice as much this year…it took off). it was a great artistic hall in new hope, pa. the best part was 3 months after the wedding we received a call from the local magazine for a follow up interview regarding the new establishment. once they found out we used all local vendors, they decided to profile us in their wedding issue. so not only do we have a wedding photographs we have our pseudo 15mins of fame in a 6 page spread in nouveau magazine.
I had my wedding in the back of Nicky’s bar. Uncle Joe, my gumpadda, was there for one reason…. to take numbers. He had a paper bag in his left hand pocket… he was robbing the sandwiches for the next days lunch. We had 600 people in the place at 5 bucks a head. It was an Italian football wedding… gobba gool and muzz as far as the eye can see.
Aunt Rose, my gumadda, was 6 feet 5 inches… she had a bun over here, beauty mark over there and a piece of garlic over here. She brought her 5 year old daughter, who no one invited, to sing with the band except the kid didn’t know the same song as the band. It was an Italian band, they only knew one song… which they played for five hours.
I went to my father because I wanted to kill him but he handed me a check for 10 large…. I kissed him on the lips. So, my 4 feet 11 wife, with black dress, black shoes and black stockings, flew to Venice. The place was a cess pool. This is true. We were in a gondola, I stuck my hands in the water and came up with an eggplant.
Right away, we fly home. You think my father asked if we had a good time? No. First question… where’s my change. Second question… is your wife pregnant. I said, dad, we’re only gone a few days. He said, make sure you have a boy. I said, how can I guarentee a boy? He said, eat broccoli. I ate broccoli for 5 year, we had a boy, he was born green.
I’ll tell you more later…
gary,
well done hahaha
#336
LOL
CLOT 334 Its just a matter of time.Empires fall.Just like a business cycles so go countries.It can’t happen here,to us bullshit.Everybody watch the big screen & drink beer while Rome burns.
# 300 “They should just have a small wedding and invite immediate family only, forcing 2nd cousins into a crap wedding is no fun for anyone.”
In nearly every case small is best. Any couple who expects guests “to cover their cost” is forgetting the point: one invites the guest to entertain them, not in expectation of receiving anything.
When I think back on my favorite meals, they have not been the $800 ones in a fancy restaurant. Instead, they have been in little dives in Grenada, Hondurus, Belieze, and other such places.
Unless the family has certain political or business need (I am thinking of a Senator’s child’s wedding as I type this) to have a large wedding, it is largely a waste. Most of the guests tend to come out of a feeling of obligation, it gets so big that the happy couple spends the night going from table to table thanking people for comming, and not enjoying the party, etc. Having at ones wedding close relatives and those friends for whom you would crawl through broken glass and who would do the same for you is a real joy. Feeling obliged to invite Aunt Tilly because if you dont Aunt Marie will be pissed, but don’t dare seat her near Cousine Anette because of the thing at the place you know when is no joy.
Re. #339 Is there anything to be done about the Chinese investment issue?..about the “buying of America?”
# 339
Just ask Rome, the Moguel empire, the Khans, the Portugese, the Spanish, the French, Great Britian, the Danes, etc. When Great powers fail to act in the ways that made them great they cease to remain great powers. At its height, Spain was the richest most powerful empire on earth; now it is a pleasant vacation destination.
Secondary Market…I think I saw your pics last year at a mag in my dentist’s office in Yardley. Was there a big picture of you sweeping her off her feet in a big green pasture near New Hope?;)
Clot, you hear right, but proper Pennsyltuckians will explain that to qualify to do the Dollar Dance, you have to be able to say you have at least one quarter Pole-lock in ya (sorry Grim). No pigs-in-the- blanket at the wedding, no go. You wear your babush. Nobody gets to cop a feel unless they cough up the buck.
Now, CF, speaking of central PA and the best wedding I was (ever a bridesmaid) in. It was in my days of wearing my Boulets and listening to Alan Jackson. Yes, I too had a country phase.
A friend’s grandfather stopped up a creek in the 30’s about twenty minutes north of Mechanicsburg. By 1993, I can pull a Rock Bass out of there and we fry them over fires. Every weekend, I drove up there from NJ to sit at the dam, ride ponies, eat Amisher pies and kill cases of Rolling Rock.
So that’s what we did for the wedding, but add a pig roast.
300
I’m confused by backyard or house weddings too. Dress up? what gift to bring?
I had a low-key daytime wedding but it still ended up being 150 people (our families are huge). I really felt like if people spent their whole day with us and drove an hour or two to come, I at least wanted to give them a proper sit-down lunch with tablecloths and real china and a few drinks.
We eloped………..her parents were there…..my parents….my 90 year-old grandmother….time of my life! She looked amazing. I still love her madly. 10 year ago.
Pat,
I think so, I remember that photo but not sure if it made the mag or not. I’ll have to check. The cover was me “dipping”(I’m sure there is an official term for it) my wife in front of the New Hope Train. Wait, that sounds bad, I didn’t dip her into the train, I mean, I did but didn’t…you know what I mean.
#323 – I am in total agreement. It sounds like charging admission/selling tickets would have been a better way to go for some of these couples. Better yet, set a minimum required donation to secure a table for their marital fundraiser.
Pat (343)-
“It was in my days of wearing my Boulets and listening to Alan Jackson.”
That’s so wrong…on so many levels. Just pure I-81 badness.
342`Shore MY point exactly.Did the whole country skip history & go out to party in school.Well I did, but you didn’t have to show up to class much to figure this one out.
#347 “Better yet, set a minimum required donation to secure a table for their marital fundraiser.”
I see you know some of my relatives…keeping their book of who gave what to whom and what they got back.
As far as I am concerned, I invite people to parties (including a wedding) to share with me even if they bring no gift.
#351 comments and it is not even 10 p.m. on Friday? Yikes!
O.K., Secondary. I definitely know what you two look like. I remember thinking, “That couple must have gotten paid to do this, or they got free photography for their wedding.”
You’re my kind of cheap dude.
ON weddings 30 people 1988 did it all out the best of everything(it was the 80’s).But with 30 people no big deal.Liqour bill 3 grand what a blast!Every thing else 6 I think we got killed on the beluga.
The only other way to do it would have put about 100 Italians & 100 Polacks in a hall.
Pure insanity.
Clot 348
I can not even express how hard I’m laughing right now.
small world pat. do you live in pa?
Yes.
my wife and i have possible job opportunities in princeton, if that happens, we’ll be moving down there (live in weehawken now). and will buy on the pa side. taxes taxes taxes.
Yes, I remember. I hope things work out for the two of you.
If you hate it, you can always keep looking.
thanks
Grim better reserve a big room for the meet-up….it could get crowded. Check firearms at the door people.
#350
Exactly! Weddings are a celebration, not a way to make money. I’m getting married in June & we decided to do a destination wedding in Key West. This is the only way we figured we could keep it small & have the wedding that we really want. I could care less if I get gifts from anyone who goes. When that’s over, we’re going to have hometown receptions(more like cocktail parties) in NJ & KY for the people that weren’t invited to KW. We have our budget of what we plan to spend & that’s that. Not expecting to make money off this. On a separate note, the niece of a close friend got married last year. The father spent around $35,000 on the wedding. Couple split up 3 months after wedding. They didn’t even bother to return the gifts. In my opinion, that’s in really poor taste.
I live in PA as well. I live in Montgomery County, about an hour from Princeton. Check out Newtown, PA. It’s in Bucks County, about 20 minutes from Princeton. Great area.
i’ve heard good things about newtown. if i don’t live in a city. what i need in a suburb is a decent “main street” usa setting or deli i can walk to. something about getting in the car to go to a bestbuy/target megaplex pains me. people say when i have kids that will change. i’m not sure about that.
10 recurring economic myths
http://tinyurl.com/zn7xr
good read!
Time for a second thread?
#336 Gary – Laughing so hard I’m crying. Can’t wait for Part Two.
Democracy in America-How Long Do We Have?
—————————————————————————————
How Long Do We Have?
About the time our original thirteen states adopted their new constitution in 1787, Alexander Tyler, a Scottish history professor at the University of Edinburgh, had this to say about the fall of the Athenian Republic some 2,000 years earlier:
“A democracy is always temporary in nature; it simply cannot exist as a permanent form of government.”
“A democracy will continue to exist up until the time that voters discover they can vote themselves generous gifts from the public treasury.”
“From that moment on, the majority always vote for the candidates who promise the most benefits from the public treasury, with the result that every democracy will finally collapse due to loose fiscal policy, which is always followed by a dictatorship.”
“The average age of the world’s greatest civilizations from the beginning of history,has been about 200 years”
“During those 200 years, those nations always progressed through the following sequence:
1. From bondage to spiritual faith;
2. From spiritual faith to great courage;
3. From courage to liberty;
4. From liberty to abundance;
5. From abundance to complacency;
6. From complacency to apathy;
7. From apathy to dependence;
8. From dependence back into bondage”
Professor Joseph Olson of Hemline University School of Law, St. Paul, Minnesota, points out some interesting facts concerning the 2000 Presidential election:
Number of States won by:
Gore: 19
Bush: 29
Square miles of land won by:
Gore: 580,000
Bush: 2,427,000
Population of counties won by:
Gore: 127 million
Bush: 143 million
Murder rate per 100,000 residents in counties won by:
Gore: 13.2
Bush: 2.1
Professor Olson adds: “In aggregate, the map of the territory Bush won was mostly the land owned by the taxpaying citizens of this great country.
Gore’s territory mostly encompassed those citizens living in government-owned tenements and living off various forms of government welfare…” Olson believes the United States is now somewhere between the “complacency and apathy phase of Professor Tyler’s definition of democracy, with some forty percent of the nation’s population already having reached the “governmental dependency” phase.
If Congress grants amnesty and citizenship to twenty million criminal invaders called illegal and they vote, then we can say goodbye to the USA in fewer than five years.
Interesting bull & bear panel discussion on real estate (mostly bearish), put together my Inman News, includes economist Nouriel Roubini. Audio is not very good, but some very sharp comments and opinions. There is only one bull, CEO of Prudential Douglas Eliman, and she comes across like a typical realtor.
Video:
http://www.wellcomemat.com/video/0DC1587DB7
Confused – That “Professor Olson” section is absolutely vile and shameful.
Shore – You are SO right.
What made our wedding miserable (for me anyway) was the huge number of complete strangers (to me and my spouse ) my in-laws invited to our wedding. And I did spend the whole evening having to circle tables of those strangers or being told off by my SIL for spending time with my friends and family. Bear in mind I got married in a foreign country so their guests outnumbered my side by 10 to 1.
All done in the name of family pride and so that Aunt XXX would be impressed. The one good point for me was that being in the profession at the time I was able to put on a good show, so I earned HUGE points, and I mean HUGE. We were broke, but shored up the family “honor”.
And yes – my Father in Law has a list of who-gave-how-much-to-who at which wedding/bar mitzvah/bris.
Outofstater – you are lucky that you could do that and have support. Some cultures (like the one I married into) put enormous stock into big family events. Weddings aren’t really about the couple, they are about the family and that smaller units standing within the extended family. A bad event will be talked about for years. Leave out a certain relative and it starts a war. Having the couple come out without a debt is a good thing in that event.
Cindy – I love how you guys do things with such individuality and also how you embraced your daughters personalities.