Weekend Open Discussion – Part II

Posted on February 22, 2008 by grim

Now Open, Part II!

Prior weekend thread closed due to comment overflow.

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304 Responses to Weekend Open Discussion – Part II

  1. Frank says:
    February 22, 2008 at 10:19 pm

    Another week, another 1000 more properties on the market and it’s only February. Are we going to see record inventory this Spring? Sell before your neighbor lists it at half price.

  2. grim says:
    February 22, 2008 at 10:31 pm

    From Reuters:

    Experts offer solutions to U.S. housing crisis

    The U.S. housing crises, which began in the subprime mortgage market and grew to hobble the U.S. credit and global banking systems, is in severe need of fixing, experts at the Reuters Housing Summit said this week.

  4. grim says:
    February 22, 2008 at 10:33 pm

    From Newsday:

    Corzine: Looming budget cuts not a game

    Some state lawmakers say New Jersey Gov. Jon S. Corzine’s plans to propose massive budget cuts are a veiled attempt to try to build support for significant highway toll increases, a claim the governor denied.

  5. Salty Steve says:
    February 22, 2008 at 11:07 pm

    I gotta say that atleast for morris county, i’m not seeing the “end of the world” saga that I read about all over the place.

    We’ve been looking off and on for a place for a while and every place we are interested in has had offers and sold fairly quickly. Examples include places in Hanover, Morris Township, Chatham, and Madison. Price range is 450k – 600k. This seems to be an active price range for this area.

  6. Mojo Jojo says:
    February 23, 2008 at 12:10 am

    Salty Steve,

    I’m seeing the opposite in Mendham, Harding, Chester in the $1M+ price range. No movement whatsoever other than occasional price reductions.

  7. kettle1 says:
    February 23, 2008 at 1:22 am

    regarding genetech

    avastin is not going to be the blockbuster it is hyped as. once enough people use it i would not be surprised to see lawsuits over deaths/side effects.

    from bloomberg
    Breast Cancer Action, a patient advocacy group in San Francisco, said in a statement the decision is “a victory for drug companies, but not for patients.” The group argued that the FDA lowered its standards by approving the medicine without showing it improved survival time.

    Patients on the drug had a 20 percent increase in serious side effects, including high blood pressure, blood clots and heart attack, the FDA said.

  8. kettle1 says:
    February 23, 2008 at 1:23 am

    for clott

    When Change Is Not Enough: Seven Steps to Revolution – If history is any indication, we may already be on the road to violent revolution.
    http://tinyurl.com/3639sm

  9. kettle1 says:
    February 23, 2008 at 1:26 am

    The last time we saw so many homeowners with so many home values that were worth less than the amount of mortgage they owed was back in the Great Depression

    http://abcnews.go.com/Business/story?id=4332334&page=1

  10. SG says:
    February 23, 2008 at 4:19 am

    On Diana Olicks blog entry earlier, she mentioned. Here’s my opinion (which I’m allowed to give here on the blog because it’s a blog, not my other job as a business journalist on CNBC)

    That raises serious question on CNBC. Does it try to influence opinions given by their reporters who they parade as Experts?

    If you have ever listened to RE related discussion on CNBC, it is easy to point out that they still avoid negative tone on Housing. They keep bringing on guests who think all the bailouts are essential and prices are where they should be.

    I always took CNBC with grain of salt, but above comment at least solidified my view that MSM is very biased at times. Thank god we have Blogs to get our news.

  11. SG says:
    February 23, 2008 at 4:35 am

    Pimco’s Gross: Fed Cuts Are No Help for Housing

    “We are 225 basis points lower and the yield curve is reflecting 275, so that seems like a lot of ease for the markets,” Gross said. “But here is the startling point — the markets that Fed policy-makers are trying to affect haven’t changed,” he added.

    Gross said Fannie 30-year mortgage rate stands at 5-3/4 percent, which is the same level as in September when the Fed began lowering rates dramatically.

    “For the rate to the borrower, you add 50 basis points because that is the fee both of them charge to guarantee and service the loan, so today’s rate to the borrower then is at least 6.25 percent on conforming loans,” he added, referring to Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, the second largest U.S. mortgage finance company after Fannie.

  12. SG says:
    February 23, 2008 at 4:41 am


    Is Now the Time to Buy a $1 Million Home?

    For buyers with good credit and healthy bank accounts, a million dollars buys a lot more home than it did a few years ago

    But entrepreneur Arnaud Karsenti and his wife, Rebecca, a doctor now pregnant with their first child, are confident that the $1.15 million home they have a contract to buy in the wealthy Miami suburb of Pinecrest, Fla., will prove to be a good investment.

    “I see the real estate market declining, so it’s very difficult to stick a fork in the ground and take a position on something that could be overvalued six months down the road,” said Karsenti, a recent graduate of Harvard Business School. “Our decision is long term.”

    That says something about Harvard Business School !!!

  13. grim says:
    February 23, 2008 at 6:27 am

    Zeitgeist? I might sign up for this one…

    RealSource Association of REALTORS®

    Foreclosure Opportunity for Buyers-Client
    Course Topics Include:

    Understanding the process of foreclosure and how it occurs.
    Counseling buyer/clients to help them avoid foreclosure proceedings.
    Tapping into the foreclosure market to benefit your business and your
    buyer-clients.
    Spotting opportunities in pre-foreclosure workouts.
    Working with bank owned real estate (REO) in pre and post foreclosures.
    Performing a needs assessment for a buyer-client considering a
    foreclosure property.
    Integrating foreclosure property opportunities into your current
    selling and listing business.

    Date: Thursday, March 13th

    Time: 9:00-5:00 pm

    Place: RealSource Association of REALTORS®
    5 Franklin Turnpike, Waldwick, NJ
    Ph: 201.444.3100 Fax: 201.444.6368

    Cost: $99.00 (normally $155.00. We’ve reduced the price due to
    current market conditions.

    Instructor: Barbara Wolff , ABR, ASR, SRES, AHWD
    Nationally known trainer and speaker

  14. Clotpoll says:
    February 23, 2008 at 7:44 am

    vodka (8)-

    Thanks. Although I joke about it, it’s really no joke. I firmly believe this will happen…and sooner than any of us suspect.

    Our own country has no higher aim than to suppress its people. We just have a more sophisticated way of doing it than rounding everybody up and tossing them in jail.

    Using media, the food supply and mass brainwashing- er, education- yields a hostage population of sheeple.

    Except…the resistance grows larger!

  15. WickedOrange says:
    February 23, 2008 at 8:22 am

    Ha ha ha classic jersey city:

    “On the other hand, there have been a rash of balloon thefts on Third Street: a few weeks ago, a Realtor had an open house on what I think might be the building you are talking about on Third. She put out a Realtor sign on the corner with balloons. A father and daughter came along and the little girl wanted a balloon, since little kids like balloons. As the father was untying the balloon from the sign the Realtor came out and yelled at the little girl for stealing her balloons.”

  16. Rich In NNJ says:
    February 23, 2008 at 8:31 am

    From US News and World Report:

    Q&A: Bond Guru Bill Gross on the Housing Crisis

    Bill Gross, founder and chief investment officer of PIMCO…

    Why do you think housing prices are declining?
    The simplest explanation is because they went up too much….

    What would stop those declines?
    Two things would stop it: One is monetary policy in terms of lower interest rates…
    We need the FHA to provide mortgages with, at least in my opinion, a subsidized interest rate…

    So it’s necessary for the government to essentially subsidize mortgages?
    Yes, I think so. You need an interest rate below existing interest rates. I think they need to subsidize it. Let’s not get ridiculous*, but with a 4.5 or 4 percent interest rate and 0 percent down for people who have demonstrated good credit and a willingness to pay on time…

    Wouldn’t the kind of program you’re suggesting be expensive?
    …[The cost] would be minimal.

    It seems that you’re saying a stimulus package alone won’t solve the housing problem.
    Yes…

    Without any sort of government intervention, what would happen to the housing market?
    Nobody knows, but I think we’d eventually see, over the next 12 to 24 months, a national housing decline of upwards of 20 percent, and that is a serious development…

    Much more at the link above, Rich
    *Too late

  17. Rich In NNJ says:
    February 23, 2008 at 8:37 am

    Mort Zuckerman’s (editor-in-chief of U.S.News & World Report) take on housing from the same issue

    From US News and World Report:

    The Haunted Housing Market

    How much longer will house prices keep falling? That collapse is a larger threat to our economic well-being than even the headline-grabbing problems of our increasingly frozen financial system. We’ve had half a century of rising home values, capped by an inflation-adjusted rise of 85 percent from 1997 to 2006. Now the loss of value tops $1 trillion, and the financial world has incurred hundreds of billions of dollars of losses on the premise that U.S. home prices would never fall. The median price of a new home is at $206,500, receding to where it was in November of 2003, thus wiping out more than three years of price appreciation.

    MUCH more at the link above, Rich

  18. rhymingrealtor says:
    February 23, 2008 at 8:43 am

    Rich,

    That’s very confusing Post 16, the first question is why are homes declining? Answer: because they went up too much
    Why would it then be asked what should be done about it? Homes are’nt declining because of disease, war, natural disasters? It’s because they went up too much, so why do we want to keep them there?

    Too much, that’s the answer. If we eat too much we throw up, If we drink too much, well, we make fools of ourselves and then throw up. You’ll feel better later! but oh if you try and try not to throw up you feel bad for so much much longer.

    KL

  19. Outofstater says:
    February 23, 2008 at 8:49 am

    This is nuts – Six years for a car loan? Seven? Nine???

    http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080223/AUTO01/802230333

  20. Confused In NJ says:
    February 23, 2008 at 8:51 am

    14.Clotpoll Says:
    February 23rd, 2008 at 7:44 am
    vodka (8)-

    Thanks. Although I joke about it, it’s really no joke. I firmly believe this will happen…and sooner than any of us suspect.

    Our own country has no higher aim than to suppress its people. We just have a more sophisticated way of doing it than rounding everybody up and tossing them in jail.

    Using media, the food supply and mass brainwashing- er, education- yields a hostage population of sheeple.

    Except…the resistance grows larger!

    If all else fails, the Government always has the WACO alternative.

  21. lostinny says:
    February 23, 2008 at 8:51 am

    18 KL
    Excellent analogy. Now if only these people could come back to reality.

  22. meter says:
    February 23, 2008 at 9:06 am

    “Cost: $99.00 (normally $155.00. We’ve reduced the price due to
    current market conditions.”

    So realtors actually *are* capable of understanding the current market – they just choose to recognize it when convenient.

  23. fruddicyday says:
    February 23, 2008 at 9:30 am

    Eclipse EGO: The EGO is an open bolt electro-pneumatic paintball marker which features LCD optical trigger, rear function buttons, menu-driven operating system, and eye indicator. sniper paintball gear

  24. MT says:
    February 23, 2008 at 9:33 am

    Anybody, Please provide the history and address of MLS#2491054.

  25. lisoosh says:
    February 23, 2008 at 10:00 am

    SC #10 –

    JOURNALISTS on the MSM are not supposed to give opinions as part of their jobs, that is what pundits are hired for. That is what she is referring to.

  26. Rich In NNJ says:
    February 23, 2008 at 10:00 am

    KL,

    I hear ya.
    But in all fairness you’ll need to click on the link to read his entire answer.
    I have a pet peeve about posting the entire article and I’m sure those using a Crackberry (or fantastic Moto Q9) would agree…

    Rich

  27. Clotpoll says:
    February 23, 2008 at 10:03 am

    MT (23)-

    8 Taranto Ct, Maplewood. 3 DOM. No previous listings.

  28. MT says:
    February 23, 2008 at 10:09 am

    Clotpoll(26)-
    Thanks. I am always reading your comments and learning from it.

  29. bi says:
    February 23, 2008 at 10:11 am

    rumors on the street: bill richardson will endorse clinton early next week to help her win hispanic votes in texas to save her campaign; bloomberg is in talk with obama camp to finance his campaign withoug public financing in general election. both are VPed.

  30. profuscious says:
    February 23, 2008 at 10:22 am

    clot #14

    “Using media, the food supply and mass brainwashing- er, education- yields a hostage population of sheeple.”

    Clot, don’t forget fluoride.

  31. rhymingrealtor says:
    February 23, 2008 at 10:23 am

    Rich,

    Thanks, I just read the whole article, but still don’t understand, is affordability addressed? or will that be met by lower interest rates? It’s confusing to me, Is he saying home prices must stay too high?
    Thanks
    KL

  32. Rich In NNJ says:
    February 23, 2008 at 10:25 am

    rumors on the street: bi is under the influence of fluoride and now is in possession of a sniper paintball gun

  33. bi says:
    February 23, 2008 at 10:29 am

    it turned out that that NYT article worths more than $200M:

    http://finance.yahoo.com/q/bc?s=NYT&t=5d

  34. Rich In NNJ says:
    February 23, 2008 at 10:33 am

    KL,

    I get the jist that he thinks affordability would be addressed if people could get these government loans.
    Basically, he’s saying if the government doesn’t support housing now we are all in the sh1tter.

    I agree, prices need to come down on order to address affordability. Those that can pay off a loan aren’t being held back by interest rates.

    Rich

  35. gary says:
    February 23, 2008 at 10:33 am

    BTW, we’ll be looking at a house today for the second time. It’s a CHC, approximately 2500 sq. ft., kitchen and baths are 30 years old. In fact, the whole house in general is dated. I’m my estimation, it’s priced $120,000 above true market value.

    It’s in a location that we like and a neighborhood that we like so from that standpoint, it makes sense. The taxes are high enough to warrant a nose bleed and concussion but until someone over-throws the regime of The Peoples Republic of New Jersey, there’s really nothing I can do except lube up and bear the brunt.

    If we decide to make an offer, I will bid based on the true market value, minus the fanfare, theatrics and explanations as I’m sure the realtor could care less how the deal gets done as long as the extortion checks continue to satisfy his/her 3-series lease payments.

    If I get an academy award winning performance from the realtor on the audicity of my bid, I’ll kindly thank him/her and will call them in 3 months to see if the seller has had enough of the baked bean caseroles and wishes to consider a prime buyer.

  36. spam spam bacon spam says:
    February 23, 2008 at 10:47 am

    Something I wanted ask…

    We’ve all been diss’n subprime borrowers for not reading the contracts they were given (AND LET ME MAKE VERY CLEAR I AGREE) but I want to ask…

    How many of us have read our auto insurance policy?

    And I mean the whole shebang: the declaration (dollar limits, when it starts and ends, description of “thing” covered), the section on what’s covered (the dirt of when something is covered and when it’s not)and the riders they always add at the end (no coverage for terrorist acts, no coverage for asbestos illnesses, no coverage for HIV, etc)…?

    How about our homeowner’s (or renter’s) policy?

    Our flood insurance?

    Our business insurance?

    Farm insurance?

    General umbrella insurance?

    Professional malpractice insurance?

    Inland Marine?

    Me, I read the declaration “dec” pages and scan for changes. (My business’ commercial liability policy declaration is like 20 pages…the dirt is about 80 pages with another 10 pages of riders.)

    I don’t read the “what’s covered or not covered” bits… I hope to God I’m covered for things you would think are normally covered when you “buy an insurance policy”…

    However, we all know how that worked out for katrina victims. Flood insurers claimed it was wind damage, homeowner insurers claimed it was water damage… They could have both policies and still be f*k’d…

    So, maybe we’re all “better then them” because we read our mortgages before we signed, or atleast understood what we were buying, but really, you trust your insurance agent when he/she is telling you you’re covered for x or y (and so you’re not gonna read that 75 or 300 page document…hell, who does THAT?!?!)…

    And so it goes for mortgages, as well… The broker says “It’s the most popular mortgage we have, it takes adavantage of lower interest rates, blah blah blah…” and so you sign.

    I have a story (storytime!) about reading a mortgage before you sign, but I’m curious to hear what you all think…

  37. bi says:
    February 23, 2008 at 10:47 am

    5#, steve, you may also notice that hanover township and east hanover have relatively low property tax. friend of mine bought a new construction in whippany in 2005 for 1.2M but the comp is even higher today.

  38. spam spam bacon spam says:
    February 23, 2008 at 10:49 am

    [34]

    Good luck Gary.

    Stick to your guns.

    Sounds like you have it right in your head…

    If it doesn’t happen, just be glad you’re not the fool who fell for it.

  39. lostinny says:
    February 23, 2008 at 10:52 am

    Spam, I’m a nerd so I read everything. Since I read everything and ask questions when I’m promised something that I don’t get, it may get on someone’s nerves. But I don’t really care. In the end it’s my pocket that I’m looking out for.

  40. lostinny says:
    February 23, 2008 at 10:53 am

    Good luck today Gary. Let us know how you make out.

  41. gary says:
    February 23, 2008 at 11:16 am

    Thanks all, I’ll let you know how things go.

  42. Frank says:
    February 23, 2008 at 11:30 am

    A ‘Moral Hazard’ for a Housing Bailout: Sorting the Victims From Those Who Volunteered

    http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/23/business/23housing.html

    Guess who’s going to pay for all the deadbeats?? You!!!!

  43. Stu says:
    February 23, 2008 at 11:35 am

    Good luck Gary.

    May the FICO be with you!

  44. chicagofinance says:
    February 23, 2008 at 11:37 am

    gary Says:
    February 23rd, 2008 at 11:16 am
    Thanks all, I’ll let you know how things go.

    g: you know exactly how this is going to go, but enjoy it at least….

  45. Artemis says:
    February 23, 2008 at 11:37 am

    #12-


    That says something about Harvard Business School !!!

    George W Bush went to Harvard Business School. That joker’s real estate decisions only confirm what most people already knew about the caliber of many of its graduates.

    Harvard has some ‘splaining to do.

  46. Sean says:
    February 23, 2008 at 11:46 am

    re: 41 Frank. The banks, the builders, the mortgage brokers, the NAR and other groups have been lobbying Congress for quite some time now to create a new version of the late 1980s Resolution Trust Corp.

    The Democrats already have a bill written to provide such a government sponsored bailout. However it is an election year. They will hold off on any legislation until they have a lock on the President’s job. The only one who can do anything would be the party bosses namely, Pelosi, Schumer and a few other key Democrats.

  47. Anth says:
    February 23, 2008 at 11:46 am

    I remember when the GSMLS hit 30k (I think it was in June or July) and everyone was freaking out about inventory. Its February and there are 33k properties. Anyone think we’ll break the 40k mark this year? Or is that just crazy talk?

  48. lisoosh says:
    February 23, 2008 at 12:03 pm

    spam – I read the fine print on my auto insurance as part of shopping around. Yes, I’m a suspicious, pendantic bu&&er. I realize most others don’t.

    However, auto insurance is not a half a million dollar, 30 year commitment. Mortgages are. So perhaps people should take a little more time over them.

  50. Sean says:
    February 23, 2008 at 12:31 pm

    Clemens had better get ready for another rear-end injection, but this time its not going to be with a syringe.

    Why would anyone need more proof of Clemen’s appearance at Canseco’s home than the testimony of his nanny?

    Clemens, better hope and pray his wife does not leave him over this because as a married couple she cannot be forced to testify against him.

    Also, did Clemens get dumb legal advice, or perhaps he really is as arrogant as he sounds and ignored legal advice?

    He goes out and exposes his family to this type of scrutiny, for what the Hall of Fame and perhaps to have his number retired?

  51. BC Bob says:
    February 23, 2008 at 12:33 pm

    Can I sign up for this plan? If my investments don’t return 8.25% can somebody bail me out? Hey, what the hell, shoot for the moon. If you fail, stick the bill to the feebleminded taxpayers. Another travesty bestowed upon the backs of the taxpayers. Does it ever end? Boom, boom, out go the lights!

    “New Jersey’s underfunded pension funds, already billions of dollars short of what they need to cover future retirement benefits, have been battered by stock market turmoil on Wall Street and overseas, a report released yesterday shows.”

    ” As of Jan. 31, seven months into the current budget year, the pension funds were worth $78.1 billion, $4 billion less than when the budget year began July 1.”Overall, the funds’ investment return for the fiscal year is -1.26 percent. Unless returns surge in the final five months of the budget year, the losses will haunt future taxpayers because of a complicated formula actuaries use to determine how much taxpayers should put into the system each year. It assumes the funds will earn an average of 8.25 percent each year. Whenever investment returns fall below that average, taxpayers are tapped for the difference.”

    http://www.nj.com/starledger/stories/index.ssf?/base/news-9/1203658518146420.xml&coll=1

  52. Everything's 'boken says:
    February 23, 2008 at 12:34 pm

    re 48
    ‘Let’s queue up the handcuffs’
    You’re saying that lying before congress by public figures is a crime?

  53. njpatient says:
    February 23, 2008 at 12:54 pm

    10 SG
    Good point
    Good post

  54. Sean says:
    February 23, 2008 at 12:59 pm

    re (50) BC Bob

    When the Pension Trust is doing well no contributions from the taxpayers are put into the fund, even if the money is collected! The money is used elsewhere for some other pork. The Legislature can play games with the budget this way.

    The Star-Ledger reported last year that New Jersey has skipped $8.1 billion in payments for the pensions for hundreds of thousands of current and retired workers including police, firefighters, government workers and teachers since 1997, and this year Corzine and the legislature is skipping another billion! Perhaps Corzine thinks his investment experts can get better returns say perhaps some nice AAA CDOs?

    When the Trust does bad the taxpayer pays it on the chin, most of the money comes from the local municipal, or county taxpayer budgets because the money is collected via local taxes and then kicked up to the state system.

    Blame the legislators who changed the funding rules, to allow this practice.

  55. Hard Place says:
    February 23, 2008 at 1:12 pm

    Anybody think South Orange/Maplewood has a fighting chance at revival or will it continue to go down the tubes. How can anyone afford the taxes in these towns? Insane!

  56. spam spam bacon spam says:
    February 23, 2008 at 1:14 pm

    [47] ‘Soosh…

    You can’t read it as part of shopping around.

    You don’t get it until after it’s been underwritten.

    I’m not saying you’re lying. Don’t get me wrong. I believe you do comparision shop and I’m sure it’s detailed.

    But you don’t actually get the policy until AFTER you’ve paid up and have been underwritten. “The meat”, so to speak, comes after. :)

    Now we all get that big bulky thing in the mail 6 weeks after our first payment and who reads the actual policy? You know, the part that’s in outline format? The standard “legalese” they spit out that says they will cover black beetle damage but not brown beetle damage…

  57. 3b says:
    February 23, 2008 at 1:19 pm

    #5 salty: Lets wait ans see what April and May look like.

  58. lisoosh says:
    February 23, 2008 at 1:28 pm

    spam – I’m just going by basic auto. Last time I thought about going elsewhere, I pulled out my policy and went over it line by line compared to offerings of other companies which had the details online. There might be additional fine print to the other policies, but it wasn’t so hard to find out if they did X or what amount of Y was covered.

  59. lisoosh says:
    February 23, 2008 at 1:34 pm

    And the main issue of course is reading what you sign.

  60. spam spam bacon spam says:
    February 23, 2008 at 1:39 pm

    And the main issue of course is reading what you sign.

    I agree.

    But when it’s 75 pages, do you?

    Did you read your cell phone commitment?

  61. Ann says:
    February 23, 2008 at 1:48 pm

    Good luck Gary! Sounds like it has a lot of what you are looking for. Let us know how it goes.

  62. pretorius says:
    February 23, 2008 at 2:00 pm

    Hard Place 54,

    South Orange and Maplewood don’t need to be revived. Their downtowns are vibrant, they have a beautiful housing stock, and they are two of the closest suburbs to Manhattan by train. These amenities act as stabilizers because they attract upper middle class Manhattan commuters.

    On the other hand, neighboring suburbs like West Orange and Union fall short and a plausible case can be built that they are in irreversible decline.

    Witness the school systems. South Orange-Maplewood is retaining students from upper middle class families while West Orange and Union are suffering from a sharp increase in students from poor backgrounds.

    I agree the real estate taxes are too high in South Orange and Maplewood. Only drastic action such as broadening the tax base by selling South Mountain and other parks will change this.

    However, Maplewood is #1 on my list if I choose to buy a house in the NJ suburbs. The neighborhood north of downtown Maplewood is one of the nicest in New Jersey in part because everything a family needs (schools, supermarket, parks, library, train station) is within walking distance.

  63. pretorius says:
    February 23, 2008 at 2:02 pm

    Hard Place,

    What is “going down the tubes” in South Orange and Maplewood?

  64. chicagofinance says:
    February 23, 2008 at 2:10 pm

    From the infamously conservative WSJ Editorial Column…..

    REVIEW & OUTLOOK

    Toll and Spend

    February 23, 2008; Page A8
    The slow economy is hurting state tax revenues around the country. But look on the bright side: You could live in New Jersey, where decades of tax and spend politics is reaching its logical conclusion.

    “We have a serious structural financial problem,” the state’s liberal Democratic Governor Jon Corzine told us on a recent visit. “You better address these problems or you will put yourself in a 1970s-style New York City situation, where you get a control board telling you what to do.” Mr. Corzine is promoting his own solution, but he’s also tacitly admitting that the state’s politicians have been sucking the place dry for decades. If you want to know where a state dominated by public-employee unions ends up, Trenton is it.

    Mr. Corzine spent 25 years at Goldman Sachs and is fluent with numbers, most of them harrowing if you’re a New Jersey taxpayer. In 1990 the state was $3 billion in debt. Borrowing has since grown at a compound annual rate of about 13%, and now the state is $32 billion in the red. Throw in unfunded pensions and health benefits for retirees, and that number swells to $113 billion, or $3,400 for every man, woman and child in the state. That’s three times per capita higher than the national average, making New Jersey the nation’s fourth-most indebted state.

    Public workers and teachers can retire at age 55 after 25 years with a pension of 60% of salary — indexed to inflation. Police and firefighters can retire at 65% of salary at any age after 25 years of service and 70% after 30 years. With such generous benefits, you might think funding pensions would be a priority. Ah, no. Last summer the state disclosed it had used accounting tricks to skip more than $7 billion in pension payments over 15 years. That money went to current spending to buy votes.

    Mr. Corzine is like a new homeowner who finds rotting floorboards once he moves in. And he deserves credit for acknowledging the problem. He’s raised the retirement age to 60 for new state hires, instituted defined-contribution plans for elected officials, and insisted that state employees contribute at least something for health insurance. He’s also pushing a spending freeze, but that would only stop the accumulation of new debt.

    To pay off the old debt, he’s literally proposing to mortgage the state’s best cash-producing assets — its roads. Under his plan, the state would create a new quasi-independent agency that would borrow about $38 billion. The bonds would be financed through steep, inflation-adjusted toll road increases — 50% each in 2010, 2014, 2018 and 2022, followed by an increase every four years based on the consumer price index.

    The toll hikes would hit the New Jersey Turnpike and Garden State Parkway, among other popular roadways. The plan resembles the Indiana Toll Road and Chicago Skyway arrangements enacted in recent years. But in those cases, governments turned the roadways over to private entities for upfront payments. In return, the purchaser gained the right to collect revenues and keep the profits. Mr. Corzine told us he wants New Jersey to retain ownership to keep the revenues.

    Essentially, the state would be issuing new debt to pay down old debt. There would be an obligation to pay off bondholders and pay a dividend to the state. Mr. Corzine is betting that this bond authority can be made independent enough from Trenton’s politicians to guarantee a regular revenue stream that couldn’t be spent on the usual political payoffs. But the pols have a way of getting their clutches on such pools of surplus cash (think Social Security), and who is going to pay off the bond holders if voters decide to block further toll increases? This smells a lot like Fannie Mae, with a “nonprofit” entity having an implicit government guarantee.

    The real problem is tax and spend governance, by both political parties. State revenues have grown at an average annual rate of 3% over 20 years, while spending has increased by an average of 7%. And that’s despite a tax burden that is already nearly the country’s highest (see nearby table). Mr. Corzine’s predecessor, James McGreevey, jacked up the top income tax rate to 8.97% from 6.37% in 2004, giving more hedge fund managers a reason to move to Connecticut.

    Mr. Corzine’s toll-hike plan is well meaning but unlikely to work and is already encountering bipartisan opposition. If it fails, he ought to consider the only real solution, which would be a state constitutional tax and spend limitation. He’d be a hero to taxpayers, and it might even save the state from bankruptcy.

  65. chicagofinance says:
    February 23, 2008 at 2:15 pm

    Everything’s ‘boken Says:
    February 23rd, 2008 at 12:34 pm
    re 48 ‘Let’s queue up the handcuffs’
    You’re saying that lying before congress by public figures is a crime?

    ‘boke: Assuming that your are not joking, or are not a Sterling-kool-aid Yankee fan, I cannot see a more clear cut case of wanton perjury. Most of the proceeding was just a chance for public embarassment, but this evidence would be an exact statement refuted with visual proof.

  66. Dobe44 says:
    February 23, 2008 at 2:27 pm

    S.O. and Maplewood are painfully at risk, despite their advantages of housing stock and the midtown train line: they both are next to a very ugly and dangerous part of NJ.

    Columbia High School is the place that none of the locals want to send their kids plus they have to pay exorbitant taxes on top of it.

    If the decline continues, these two towns will continue to suffer as well.

  67. t c m says:
    February 23, 2008 at 2:47 pm

    i’ve heard -( from ONE person who lives there – i have no way of confirming, so take it for what it’s worth) that people from neighboring towns send their kids to maplewood schools by using addressses of family members who live there.

    this person is looking to move out to a better school district.

  68. Hard Place says:
    February 23, 2008 at 2:58 pm

    Pret,

    Thanks for the insight. Actually I haven’t spent much time in South Orange or Maplewood recently. I’ve only driven to the South Orange transit stop recently and didn’t really go through the rest of the town. I’ve heard nice things about SO and Maplewood, but maybe it’s old news that it’s on the decline. I haven’t done any ground level scouting of the area. My sister moved out to Millburn and I was considering moving to Millburn, Summit or Chatham. I only recently thought of maybe starting to look at SO and Maplewood due to the better commute times to Manhattan. Are there parts of Maplewood & South ORange that are better than others?

    Dobe/TCM,

    So the School district in both towns are not very good. Is that an old school of thought or is that the current situation? I do remember Columbia being a tough school when I was in HS almost 20 yrs ago, but it sounds like the situation hasn’t changed much. I’ve only read anectdotal info that Maplewood was getting a little better, but having not lived there before I couldn’t tell for sure.

  69. 3b says:
    February 23, 2008 at 3:11 pm

    #67 Hardplace: Columbia is bad and getting worse. MW/SO was/is a big draw for ex NY’ers, who for the most part are not familiar with the school situation, or figure they will have left before they need the HS. And the taxes are obscene.

    I would avoid it

  70. reinvestor101 says:
    February 23, 2008 at 3:16 pm

    I’m just so dismayed during this election season. There’s no real choice because everyone running is a liberal, including McCain. I suppose that McCain can be influenced to continue with Bush’s work,but that’s not certain.

    It would be easier to work up a passion about this whole thing if Billiary would just win the democratic nomination. She doesn’t look set to do that and Obama looks like he’s gonna prevail. Sure, he’s an empty suit, but we’re going to be challenged to work up the same disdain against him as everyone has for Billiary.

    We might have to prepare to lose this election and come back like storm troopers once the liberals screw everything up. They will definitely screw up. The first thing they’re going to do is cut and run in Iraq and Iran. It will remind everyone of the malaise under Jimmie Carter and Bill Clinton.

    February 23rd, 2008 at 10:11 am
    rumors on the street: bill richardson will endorse clinton early next week to help her win hispanic votes in texas to save her campaign; bloomberg is in talk with obama camp to finance his campaign withoug public financing in general election. both are VPed.

  71. t c m says:
    February 23, 2008 at 3:18 pm

    Hardplace –

    i have no first hand knowledge of the school system – only things i’ve heard – and it’s that many people don’t want to send their kids to the high school. it could be irrational, but who knows?

    if it weren’t for the reputation of the high school, i would have moved there. the town is very cute, and seems to be more artsy and fun than millburn – but i didn’t want to risk it with the high school. besides, the taxes are so high – they seem higher than millburn.

    when i moved here, i didn’t know a lot about these towns, so i had to just choose from research and recommendations of people i knew (as opposed to first hand knowledge). i considered the towns you are considering – and came to the conclusion, that for myself, i’d rather have a smaller house in millburn than a larger one in the other towns – however, it’s just a personal choice-summit, chatham, berkeley heights all are very nice.

  72. Rich In NNJ says:
    February 23, 2008 at 3:28 pm

    Chi (63),

    Thanks for posting that.

    …he ought to consider the only real solution, which would be a state constitutional tax and spend limitation. He’d be a hero to taxpayers…

    Sprinkle in some serious spending cuts as well and I may be able to call him a hero.

  73. Everything's 'boken says:
    February 23, 2008 at 3:45 pm

    re 64
    ‘Assuming that your are not joking’

    Oohh! That hurts. Perhaps my sense of humor is a mite dry.

  74. spam spam bacon spam says:
    February 23, 2008 at 3:46 pm

    [69]

    Dad?

    Have you finally figured out blogging?

  75. profuscious says:
    February 23, 2008 at 3:46 pm

    re101

    “We might have to prepare to lose this election and come back like storm troopers once the liberals screw everything up.”

    101, Prepare to meet thy doom

  76. Hard Place says:
    February 23, 2008 at 3:47 pm

    and came to the conclusion, that for myself, i’d rather have a smaller house in millburn than a larger one in the other towns

    Seems to be the conclusion I am coming towards. Still might consider Westfield, though. Lots of nice architecture in the town. School system was supposed to be decent.

  77. Bloodbath in Winter 2007 says:
    February 23, 2008 at 3:50 pm

    Clot, you’ll love this – FINALLY got the financial advisor to roll over on gold and precious metals!

    Met with him Friday and I’m in. I like roller coasters, so I’m more than ready for this one.

    Didn’t go overboard, but a significant enough chunk that i’ll happily monitor it while no longer paying attention to apple. (talk about a bummer … it’s been mired in the 120-130 range all month and i really question its ability to reach 200 again this year. no matter – it’s a buy and hold. now, i’m off to get a new computer from apple … )

  78. pretorius says:
    February 23, 2008 at 3:50 pm

    “Columbia High School is the place that none of the locals want to send their kids”

    “Columbia is bad and getting worse.”

    “people from neighboring towns send their kids to maplewood schools by using addressses of family members who live there”

    Columbia High School is an above-average high school based on an objective, dispassionate review of the facts.

    SAT scores above average. Proportion of students scoring at advanced standard in state tests is above average. Teacher qualifications above average. And this is in a state with very good public secondary education so the competition is very strong.

    I don’t know how many non-residents attend the schools. The percentage of white kids at Columbia is actually increasing and has been for years. Maybe all those white kids are sneaking in from Irvington. Or maybe the quality of the school is high enough that it is preventing the white flight that is happening in other inner suburbs.

  79. stu says:
    February 23, 2008 at 4:08 pm

    REinvestor (post 69 (I like that #)) says: “It will remind everyone of the malaise under Jimmie Carter and Bill Clinton.”

    I was too young to have been able to invest during the Carter administration, but if the malaise contributed to my best investing years by far, then bring on some anarchy under Obama. My wallet could certainly use the help these days after ‘W’ pick pocketed me.

  80. Dobe44 says:
    February 23, 2008 at 4:08 pm

    Hardplace: if you can afford Summit, Chatham or Millburn you should definitely buy there.

    Pretorius: you sound mighty defensive. Rating a high school on objective measures is fine. Unfortunately the objective measures available do not explain the entire situation.

  81. BC Bob says:
    February 23, 2008 at 4:09 pm

    Columbia HS- Max Weinberg

  83. Clotpoll says:
    February 23, 2008 at 4:13 pm

    bath (76)-

    Congrats. Don’t sweat APPL. It’ll be back, but most of the easy money’s been made there.

    Now, you’ve got yourself a real tiger by the tail. Have fun with it.

    And buy the dips.

    Every humanly possible disclaimer.

  84. njpatient says:
    February 23, 2008 at 4:18 pm

    28 bi

    Based on the anti-bi, is there anywhere what I can bet the ranch that Richardson will be Obama’s VP pick?

  85. njpatient says:
    February 23, 2008 at 4:21 pm

    “bloomberg is in talk with obama camp to finance his campaign”

    You’re aware that there are contribution limits, bi?

  86. njpatient says:
    February 23, 2008 at 4:26 pm

    Spam
    “How many of us have read our auto insurance policy?”

    I never sign a contract without reading it, but let’s be clear that there is a distinction between a mortgage and car insurance, in that one is a choice and the other is a requirement.

  87. chicagofinance says:
    February 23, 2008 at 4:32 pm

    This opinion piece calls it right down the middle without an agenda….

    WSJ
    DECLARATIONS
    By PEGGY NOONAN

    Try a Little Tenderness
    February 22, 2008; Page W14

    Barack Obama’s biggest draw is not his eloquence. When you watch an Obama speech, you lean forward and listen and think, That’s good. He’s compelling, I like the way he speaks. And afterward all the commentators call him “impossibly eloquent” and say “he gave me thrills and chills.” But, in fact, when you go on the Internet and get a transcript of the speech and print it out and read it–that is, when you remove Mr. Obama from the words and take them on their own–you see the speech wasn’t all that interesting, and was in fact high-class boilerplate. (This was not true of John F. Kennedy’s speeches, for instance, which could be read seriously as part of the literature of modern American politics, or Martin Luther King’s work, which was powerful absent his voice.)

    Mr. Obama is magnetic, interacts with the audience, leads a refrain: “Yes, we can.” It’s good, and compared with Hillary Clinton and John McCain, neither of whom seems really to enjoy giving speeches, it comes across as better than it is. But is it eloquence? No. Eloquence is deep thought expressed in clear words. With Mr. Obama the deep thought part is missing. What is present are sentiments.

    Our country can be greater, it holds unachieved promise, our leaders have not led us well. “We struggle with our doubts, our fears, our cynicism.” Fair enough and true enough, but he doesn’t dig down to explain how to become a greater nation, what specific path to take–more power to the state, for instance, or more power to the individual. He doesn’t unpack his thoughts, as they say. He asserts and keeps on walking.

    So his draw is not literal eloquence but a reputation for eloquence that may, in time, become the real thing.

    But his big draw is this. In a country that has throughout most of our lifetimes been tormented by, buffeted by, the question of race, a country that has endured real pain and paid in blood and treasure to work its way through and out of the mess, that for all that struggle we yielded this: a brilliant and accomplished young black man with a consensus temperament, a thoughtful and peaceful person who wishes to lead. That is his draw: “We made that.” “It ended well.”

    People would love to be able to support that guy.

    His job, in a way, is to let them, in part by not being just another operative, plaything or grievance-monger of the left-liberal establishment and left-liberal thinking. By standing, in fact, for real change.

    Right now Mr. Obama is in an awkward moment. Each day he tries to nail down his party’s leftist base, and take it from Mrs. Clinton. At the same time his victories have led the country as a whole to start seeing him as the probable Democratic nominee. They’re looking at him in a new way, and wondering: Is he standard, old time and party line, or is he something new? Is he just a turning of the page, or is he the beginning of a new and helpful chapter?

    Mr. Obama did not really have a good week, in spite of winning a primary and a caucus, and both resoundingly. I don’t refer to charges that he’d plagiarized words from a Deval Patrick speech. He borrowed an argument that was in itself obvious–words matter–and used words in the public sphere. In any case Mrs. Clinton has lifted so many phrases and approaches from Mr. Obama, and other candidates, that her accusation was like the neighborhood kleptomaniac running through the street crying, “Thief! Thief!”

    His problem was, is, his wife’s words, not his, the speech in which she said that for the first time in her adult life she is proud of her country, because Obama is winning. She later repeated it, then tried to explain it, saying of course she loves her country. But damage was done. Why? Because her statement focused attention on what I suspect are some basic and elementary questions that were starting to bubble out there anyway.

    * * *

    Here are a few of them.

    Are the Obamas, at bottom, snobs? Do they understand America? Are they of it? Did anyone at their Ivy League universities school them in why one should love America? Do they confuse patriotism with nationalism, or nativism? Are they more inspired by abstractions like “international justice” than by old visions of America as the city on a hill, which is how John Winthrop saw it, and Ronald Reagan and JFK spoke of it?

    Have they been, throughout their adulthood, so pampered and praised–so raised in the liberal cocoon–that they are essentially unaware of what and how normal Americans think? And are they, in this, like those cosseted yuppies, the Clintons?

    Why is all this actually not a distraction but a real issue? Because Americans have common sense and are bottom line. They think like this. If the president and his first lady are not loyal first to America and its interests, who will be? The president of France? But it’s his job to love France, and protect its interests. If America’s leaders don’t love America tenderly, who will?

    And there is a context. So many Americans right now fear they are losing their country, that the old America is slipping away and being replaced by something worse, something formless and hollowed out. They can see we are giving up our sovereignty, that our leaders will not control our borders, that we don’t teach the young the old-fashioned love of America, that the government has taken to itself such power, and made things so complex, and at the end of the day when they count up sales tax, property tax, state tax, federal tax they are paying a lot of money to lose the place they loved.

    And if you feel you’re losing America, you really don’t want a couple in the White House whose rope of affection to the country seems lightly held, casual, provisional. America is backing Barack at the moment, so America is good. When it becomes angry with President Barack, will that mean America is bad?

    * * *

    Michelle Obama seems keenly aware of her struggles, of what it took to rise so high as a black woman in a white country. Fair enough. But I have wondered if it is hard for young African-Americans of her generation, having been drilled in America’s sad racial history, having been told about it every day of their lives, to fully apprehend the struggles of others. I wonder if she knows that some people look at her and think “Man, she got it all.” Intelligent, strong, tall, beautiful, Princeton, Harvard, black at a time when America was trying to make up for its sins and be helpful, and from a working-class family with two functioning parents who made sure she got to school.

    That’s the great divide in modern America, whether or not you had a functioning family, and she apparently came from the privileged part of that divide. A lot of white working-class Americans didn’t come up with those things. Some of them were raised by a TV and a microwave and love our country anyway, every day.

    Does Mrs. Obama know this? I don’t know. If she does, love and gratitude for the place that tries to give everyone an equal shot would seem to be in order.

  88. Clotpoll says:
    February 23, 2008 at 4:35 pm

    pret (77)-

    Columbia HS: multiple NJ state HS soccer championships. Probably the best HS soccer coach in America, Gene Chyzowich, has won over 700 games there.

  89. BC Bob says:
    February 23, 2008 at 4:45 pm

    Clot[87],

    Rick Jacobs? I already know your response.

  90. lisoosh says:
    February 23, 2008 at 4:58 pm

    spam spam bacon spam Says:
    February 23rd, 2008 at 1:39 pm
    And the main issue of course is reading what you sign.

    “I agree.

    But when it’s 75 pages, do you?

    Did you read your cell phone commitment?”

    Well OK, I didn’t read every last comma on my cell phone agreement. Then again, a cell phone isn’t a house.

    And if it was 75 pages and $500,000, then yes, I would read it. And if I couldn’t, I would pay a lawyer to read it.
    I really have made somebody sit for over half an hour while I read through a bunch of paperwork, all the while my husband is sitting next to me telling the salesperson to expect to wait because I like to cross my i’s and dot my t’s. I don’t expect everyone to be like me, I really am a pain in the behind. But some effort? Not agreeing to lie about income? Yes. At least a little. I get the financially naive were lied to. But I don’t think I am forgiving enough to pay for their homes out of my pocket.

  91. Hard Place says:
    February 23, 2008 at 5:00 pm

    Dobe,

    I grew up in Livingston, so I know that Summit, Chatham and Millburn are a similar quality of schooling. Given I’m a NYC commuter, a train town is a must. I’m not much for driving into the city. Been there done that and hated sitting outside the tunnels during rush hour. Granted I was often leaving at 6am, i often beat the crazy rush. I thought I would give Maplewood a chance if, as pret describes their is less flight of money from the town.

    My theory is that people make the schools, that is why some areas along the gold coast will have improving school districts, as a lot of the moneyed set has moved and will settle into the area. I just don’t want to buy into a declining area. The outer exurbs look like there will be decline from my perspective.

  92. Salty Stave says:
    February 23, 2008 at 5:00 pm

    Anyone have opinions on Maplewood, NJ?

    Are the schools good? is there a bad section of town?

    We’re looking to expand our home search to include some other towns.

  93. lisoosh says:
    February 23, 2008 at 5:04 pm

    Chi.

    Sorry, but Peggy Noonan and the term “no agenda” just don’t fit into the same sentence. This is Ronald Reagans speechwriter we are talking about here. I’m no Obama groupie, some of his ideas I like, some not. But Peggy Noonan? Republican agenda all the way.

  94. Clotpoll says:
    February 23, 2008 at 5:15 pm

    BC (88)-

    I’d rather watch his team play than the Red Bulls.

    His team last year would give a good D-1 NCAA team a hard time.

  95. kettle1 says:
    February 23, 2008 at 5:21 pm

    Dont worry the government only has our best interest at heart!

    Mercury is good for you!
    http://www.brasschecktv.com/page/280.html

  96. profuscious says:
    February 23, 2008 at 5:23 pm

    chi 86

    “Does Mrs. Obama know this? I don’t know. If she does, love and gratitude for the place that tries to give everyone an equal shot would seem to be in order.”

    I’ve seen this play before: the ole’ Peggy Noonan “who’s a good patriot” litmus test.

    If you don’t wear it on your emotional sleeve, for god sakes, at least wear it on your lapel. And if you can’t at least sound patriotic, at least put your best Ollie North haircut on, while your playing your Lee Greenwood Proud to be an American warm up song.

    Every four years they march these propaganda experts out here to tell us who passes the Peggy Noonan patriot test. Mrs. Obama, feel free to tell Mrs. Noonan to shove it up her flag-draped *ss. Somebody needs to check these people.

    Good grief.

  97. bi says:
    February 23, 2008 at 5:33 pm

    #84, patient, there is no limit if he is vp candidate himself.

    “bloomberg is in talk with obama camp to finance his campaign”

    You’re aware that there are contribution limits, bi?

  98. rhymingrealtor says:
    February 23, 2008 at 6:02 pm

    BC,

    I just had a chance to answer your email. Thanks for noticing (-;

    KL

  99. bi says:
    February 23, 2008 at 6:13 pm

    that would wheelchair mccain to white house express.

    >njpatient Says:
    February 23rd, 2008 at 4:18 pm
    28 bi

    Based on the anti-bi, is there anywhere what I can bet the ranch that Richardson will be Obama’s VP pick?

  100. chicagofinance says:
    February 23, 2008 at 6:14 pm

    lisoosh Says:
    February 23rd, 2008 at 5:04 pm
    Chi.

    profuscious Says:
    February 23rd, 2008 at 5:23 pm
    chi 86

    I’m sorry, but you both just whiffed badly. Can you read what she is saying and not let your biases color it? She is writing about something that matters to a large swath of the public. She is also stating how the Obamas are going to be perceived and carefully stripping the racial issue out of it.

    It is clear observations, with her opinion being irrelevant. I find this piece very insightful, and her portrayal of Obama’s speeches is spot on. What is she does effectively is separate the vacuous masses that will fall for any sweet talk, and puts an identity on the misgivings that I personally have. That said, I would very likely vote Obama over Clinton and McCain at this juncture, but I wonder if Obama eventually gets exposed as a novice. We’ll see.

    I am disappointed with your reactions, and I’ll leave it at that…..

  101. skep-tic says:
    February 23, 2008 at 6:37 pm

    I agree that Noonan’s Obama piece is very insightful. I am registered as independent, but I vote GOP most of the time. I am very tempted to vote for Obama, however. I think having a black president would be monumentally important on a symbolic level given our history, and Obama strikes me as quality person, even though I disagree with him about many things.

    I have personally never believed that Americans are as racist as many well meaning people on the left believe, and I think Obama, if nothing else, has already demonstrated this. It would be interesting if he became president because in an way this would undermine the identity polictics that the left has so greatly internalized.

    The Obamas do not strike me as snobs, just people who are justifiably proud of what they have accomplished with their lives so far.

  102. rhymingrealtor says:
    February 23, 2008 at 6:53 pm

    Does anyone else have any misgivings about leaving either the first woman or the first black man, the mess that will be the next four years, given the shortsightedness ( if that’s a word ) of so many folks. It seems the way the next four years will go, which I truly feel is the blame of the last eight, will be blamed on the the woman or the black man?
    This is probaly simple thinking on my part, and I want a president with intelligence, diplomacy, the ability to listen and act accordingly.
    I think I know what our current candidates want to do, but can they do it??

    KL

  103. pretorius says:
    February 23, 2008 at 7:11 pm

    “Dobe44 Says:
    February 23rd, 2008 at 4:08 pm
    Hardplace: if you can afford Summit, Chatham or Millburn you should definitely buy there.

    Pretorius: you sound mighty defensive. Rating a high school on objective measures is fine. Unfortunately the objective measures available do not explain the entire situation.”

    Dobe44,

    I have no connections to Maplewood or South Orange. It is the blatant scaremongering and stereotyping that caused me to react.

    When people say negative things that conflict with the facts, it is fair to call them on it.

    But I’d love to here your comments on the situation in these towns because in a few years I might be seriously considering a move to Maplewood.

    I agree that the towns further out on the Midtown Direct train line have great school districts. However, kids can succeed in merely above average districts too. The high school I went to was below average by suburban New Jersey standards, but I came out of it fine, and I’d be happy to send my kids there.

  104. Bloodbath in Winter 2007 says:
    February 23, 2008 at 7:15 pm

    reinvestor101 Says:
    February 23rd, 2008 at 3:16 pm

    We might have to prepare to lose this election and come back like storm troopers once the liberals screw everything up. They will definitely screw up. The first thing they’re going to do is cut and run in Iraq and Iran. It will remind everyone of the malaise under Jimmie Carter and Bill Clinton.

    Please step away from the keyboard, turn off Rush Limbaugh, and remind yourself: No posting when drunk.

    “Malaise under Bill Clinton” – this is factually incorrect on so many levels it is not worth responding to. Are you awake how awful the USA has become in the last eight years under the imbecile who is in office?

  105. Ann says:
    February 23, 2008 at 7:19 pm

    101 KL

    I can’t believe anyone wants this job.

    I think Hillary can take it on. She’s tough.

    This quote from the WSJ that ChiFi posted sums up my reservations about Obama perfectly:

    “Mr. Obama is magnetic, interacts with the audience, leads a refrain: “Yes, we can.” It’s good, and compared with Hillary Clinton and John McCain, neither of whom seems really to enjoy giving speeches, it comes across as better than it is. But is it eloquence? No. Eloquence is deep thought expressed in clear words. With Mr. Obama the deep thought part is missing. What is present are sentiments.”

    I’ll probably stay home if it’s an Obama/McCain race.

  106. Bloodbath in Winter 2007 says:
    February 23, 2008 at 7:20 pm

    A vote for Obama is a vote for McCain.

    If you don’t want a Republican in office, you vote for Clinton.

    Pret – Where are you scoring all these facts on Maplewood? Talking OOA or are there links to any of it? Not that i have a horse in the race … just always looking for good links to HS scores/ratings

  107. lisoosh says:
    February 23, 2008 at 7:28 pm

    Sorry Chi, but it is impossible to separate peoples background and beliefs from what they say. Karl Rove no longer works for The White House, he writes a column for Newsweek on occasion but that doesn’t stop him from being who he is or having the belief system he has. It seeps out in a word here, a sentence there.

    Take this:

    “Are the Obamas, at bottom, snobs? Do they understand America? Are they of it? Did anyone at their Ivy League universities school them in why one should love America? Do they confuse patriotism with nationalism, or nativism?

    ….Have they been, throughout their adulthood, so pampered and praised–so raised in the liberal cocoon–that they are essentially unaware of what and how normal Americans think? And are they, in this, like those cosseted yuppies, the Clintons?”

    Knowing that “Ivy League” is a hot button term among the populist masses – just like Ivory Tower.

    And yet here is what she said about Bush (Platinum spoon, Yale, Harvard, Presidents son, cossetted businessman) in the past:

    “Mr. Bush is the triumph of the seemingly average American man. He’s normal. He thinks in a sort of common-sense way. He speaks the language of business and sports and politics. You know him. He’s not exotic. But if there’s a fire on the block, he’ll run out and help. He’ll help direct the rig to the right house and count the kids coming out and say, “Where’s Sally?”

    He’s responsible. He’s not an intellectual. Intellectuals start all the trouble in the world. ”

    Ha, and if you really want to see how delusional the old coot actually is (from 2003):

    “So far so good. The war has begun, and the world hasn’t ended (alarmists, pessimists and prophets on left and right please note). Saddam Hussein may be hurt or dead. And so, on to Baghdad.

    We are about to startle and reorder the world. We are going to win this thing, and in the winning of it we are going to reinspire civilized people across the globe. We’re going to give the world a lift.”

    I see a populist with an agenda, spinning fantasies, recreating legends in her minds eye.

    I told you – I’m not an Obama junkie. I like him on foreign affairs, prefer Hillary on health, disappointed with both on the economy. McCain lost me years ago on Iraq. I do think Obama is riding a wave of other peoples expectations and dreams. He is smart, magnetic to many, missing some experience. I prefer his long winded stuff because it shows he has actually bothered to think, rather than memorize sound bites. Clinton is the wonk to end all wonks and a horrible public speaker.

    Peggy Noonan did absolutely NOTHING to give voice to any misgivings I may have. What I read was pandering to the great overly antibacterialized and vacuous masses. And she did inject race into it, several times – and not surprising because she zero’d in on Michelle Obamas’ statements which were racially slanted as she is the attack dog on that issue.

    Guess we’ll just have to disagree.

  108. Frank says:
    February 23, 2008 at 7:28 pm

    #91,
    “Anyone have opinions on Maplewood, NJ?”
    Stay away, 20 years ago it was a nice town but not anymore. Schools suck and your car will be stolen often.

  109. t c m says:
    February 23, 2008 at 7:31 pm

    #101 –

    if obama and clinton don’t have misgivings, then i don’t think you should worry about it. they WANT the job – if they don’t want to inherit a situation, or come up with solutions, like they claim they can, then they should drop out. if you feel they can’t handle the next four years, in light of the past eight, then don’t vote for them.

  110. rhymingrealtor says:
    February 23, 2008 at 7:34 pm

    Malaise under Bill Clinton” – this is factually incorrect on so many levels it is not worth responding to. Are you awake how awful the USA has become in the last eight years under the imbecile who is in office?

    Thank you bbiw2007, this is what I mean ditto heads run rampant and you can’t reason with them.

    KL

  111. t c m says:
    February 23, 2008 at 7:36 pm

    RE: noonan piece –

    i think it makes sense.

    just because you don’t agree with everything she says, doesn’t mean that you need to automatically disagree with anything she says.

  112. Clotpoll says:
    February 23, 2008 at 7:37 pm

    skep (100)-

    Having grown up in Memphis, I got a first-hand education in what racism is, and isn’t.

    The first thing that dawned upon me as I entered adolescense was that racism is a taught behavior, not a natural instinct or response. Then, it became apparent that the teaching of racism greatly empowers the people doing the teaching. Finally, I realized that the people who teach and fan the flames of racism do it as a smokescreen, so that the people they’re teaching don’t realize the teachers are running roughshod over everybody, regardless of color.

    The one interesting thing about the prospect of an Obama presidency is that the funhouse mirror of racial preconceptions gets smashed from the get. A black guy’s gonna be boss, and everybody will have to deal with it. What we’ll probably- and happily- discover is that race in the US has become not such a big deal.

    Hopefully, the next thing we’d discover is that all our problems are not caused by gay people and Mexicans.

  113. lisoosh says:
    February 23, 2008 at 7:37 pm

    KL – I know. I feel bad for anyone having to take over the oncoming tsunami. I feel whoever gets it is setting themselves up for failure.

    skep-tic Says:

    “I have personally never believed that Americans are as racist as many well meaning people on the left believe, and I think Obama, if nothing else, has already demonstrated this. It would be interesting if he became president because in an way this would undermine the identity polictics that the left has so greatly internalized.”

    I think what is interesting about Obama is that he, just in his demeanor and the level of acceptance he has received, proves that once you remove the “Angry Black Man” persona of a Jesse Jackson or an Al Sharpton out of the equation then the nation is a lot less racist than many believe. It is not something internalized on the left but by a very specific group of minority polititians of a particular generation. And to be frank, they make their living off of that perception and in doing so have arguably held back race relations in this country. Or at least that is my perception of it.

  114. t c m says:
    February 23, 2008 at 7:50 pm

    #77 pret –

    i’m just telling what i hear – and why i didn’t move to maplewood.

    if the taxes were lower, i think a better case for moving to maplewood could be made. but if you have to choose between a town with high taxes and a school district with a good reputation, and high taxes and a school district with a not so good reputation, why would you choose the latter?

  115. Clotpoll says:
    February 23, 2008 at 7:50 pm

    lisoosh (106)-

    Peggy Noonan, her politics and her opinions are utterly irrelevant in this day and age. She can’t even get a speechwriting gig now.

    Evocative, metaphor-laced speeches don’t register anymore, because there are too few people out there who can understand them. The best one can hope for is a cipher like Obama, who can be a tabula rasa for anyone who cares enough to tune in and listen.

  116. rhymingrealtor says:
    February 23, 2008 at 7:50 pm

    TCM,

    I know what your saying, I’m just saying it seems the next president is going to have an impossible job. I have been leaning toward Obama, but …….. I just realized an impossible job can only be done……. by a Woman (-:

    KL

  117. lisoosh says:
    February 23, 2008 at 7:52 pm

    Well, based on the affirmative responses to the Noonan piece above, it seems I am not particularly well plugged in to the current American psyche.

    Actually, definitely not. Her speeches managed to get Reagan elected twice while those of us on the other side of the pond shook our heads in wonder and asked WTF?

    Guess it’s a cultural thing.

  118. JIM says:
    February 23, 2008 at 7:56 pm

    Has anyone posted this article about builders being on brink of bankruptcy? If so just ignore it, and I apologize.
    http://www.dailyrecord.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080223/BUSINESS/802230329/1003

    JIM

  119. Clotpoll says:
    February 23, 2008 at 8:01 pm

    soosh (116)-

    Two differences between now and Reagan’s era:

    1) The national IQ was 20 points higher then. A goodly number of average adult Americans simply got it (not that it was rocket science…but then, neither was the Gettysburg Address). These days, her stuff would have people switching over to When Animals Attack in about 12 seconds.

    2) When Reagan ran in ’79, things were way worse than they are now. And, Reagan also had the benefit of running against a tree stump of an opponent.

  120. t c m says:
    February 23, 2008 at 8:01 pm

    #87 – clot

    millburn beat columbia h.s. last fall in the essex county tournament 4-1. they also beat st. benedicts this year, which was a huge upset.

  121. 3b says:
    February 23, 2008 at 8:06 pm

    #118 Clot: When Reagan ran in ‘79, things were way worse than they are now.

    I suspect by the time we reach November of this year, things may be just as bad, and worse in many ways.

    And 09 is looking no better.

  122. Clotpoll says:
    February 23, 2008 at 8:07 pm

    tcm (119)-

    Some of my club kids played on the N. Hunterdon team that knocked Columbia out of the State playoffs last Fall.

    1-0, the only goal scored 20 seconds before the end. A sick good game. Columbia- and their coach- showed real class from beginning to end & were very gracious, even though that’s the most brutal kind of loss.

    Most of our kids would tell you they had no idea how they won. I don’t either.

  123. Confused In NJ says:
    February 23, 2008 at 8:22 pm

    When I moved to NJ from NYC in 1977, AT&T provided a relocation service. My criteria was Train to NYC, reasonable commute to anywhere on the 287 arch from Piscataway to Parsippany, good schools and convenience. The relocation service only showed us five towns, 1. Chatham, 2, Madison, 3. New Providence, 4. Summit, and 5. Berkeley Heights, in that order. We chose New Providence and being familiar with all five towns, still feel that was the best choice. Only caveat, if you hate jury duty (Elizabeth), pick Chatham (Morristown). Chatham & Madison are more expensive then Summit, N.P or B.H. for comparable house. Taxes ridiculous in all five since 1998. N.P still a great place to raise a family, and Summit is a protective buffer, with Mountainside, Milburn, Springfield & Westfield. N.P has two train stations.

  124. pretorius says:
    February 23, 2008 at 8:25 pm

    T C M,

    Reputation doesn’t matter to me, reality does.

    If something keeps me from moving to Maplewood, it will be the taxes, not the schools.

    I went to Rutgers and a majority of my classmates were graduates of New Jersey public high schools. The only kids who weren’t prepared were from the bottom 10% of schools. I was friends with the valedictorian of Camden High School until he flunked out. Kids from high schools like University in Newark and Hoboken simply weren’t prepared.

    The kids from rural South Jersey, inner suburbs, and New York City public schools did fine.

    Maybe a kid will score 20 points higher on the SAT if he goes to Chatham instead of Columbia. Probably not worth the extra $100,000 bucks on the house and 30 minutes each day on the train though.

  125. lisoosh says:
    February 23, 2008 at 8:34 pm

    Clot – I find that there is or perhaps was a treacly sentimentality to American politics that I find hard to fathom. That and an addiction to soundbites, oversimplified personas and peoples wardrobes.

    “Morning in America”, “The Guy who Invented the Internet”, “Brush Cutting Texan”, “Flip Flopper”, “Straight Talker”. The GOP will have Hillary as a She-Devil in a Pantsuit. If Obama wins the nom there will be myriad complaints about it not being permissable to attack him properly and a quiet reliance on a whole bunch of other people being unable to distinguish between Obama and Osama.

    I grew up on ugly polititians in ill fitting suits engaging in a weekly Question Time where they openly savaged the PM if he or she didn’t know their stuff. Bit of an adjustment.

  126. t c m says:
    February 23, 2008 at 8:39 pm

    #122 – pret

    “Reputation doesn’t matter to me, reality does.”

    what i’m trying to say is maybe the reputation exists because it is the reality. maybe all the people who paid the extra $100,000 for a house in chatham, and spend the extra time on the train weren’t bamboozled by some realtors, maybe the truth is that the schools are better. MAYBE – it’s hard to tell until you send your kids there.

    but, once you have kids, you generally don’t want to take the chance with maybe’s.

  127. d2b says:
    February 23, 2008 at 8:42 pm

    I’ve been looking at Bloomberg for a while as a VP candidate. His stock may never be higher and he has to know that he has no shot as an independent. When it come down to it Americans love rich guys. His perceived expertise would have to be the economy.

    So if the sh1t hits the fan on the next president who will all those people that still blame Clinton for everything going to blame?

  128. rhymingrealtor says:
    February 23, 2008 at 8:52 pm

    So if the sh1t hits the fan on the next president who will all those people that still blame Clinton for everything going to blame?

    Duh! They’ll blame Clinton!

    KL

  130. JBJB says:
    February 23, 2008 at 9:14 pm

    The problem is not Obama per say, its Obama with a democrat congress. Obama w/ a democrat congress would be equal to New Jersey x 50.We have had four recent examples of single party government leading to absolute disaster in recent years – 6 years of a republican house w/ a republican president, single party republican rule in Ohio, and the single party democrat disasters in California and especially New Jersey. McCain w/ a democrat congress would be the absolute best bet for gridlock. The government that governs least governs best.

  131. NNJJEFF says:
    February 23, 2008 at 9:20 pm

    Can anyone with MLS access give me address for 2748121
    thx in advance

  132. BC Bob says:
    February 23, 2008 at 9:21 pm

    “Having grown up in Memphis, I got a first-hand education in what racism is, and isn’t.”

    Clot,

    Watching the Vols-Tigers. The state must be all wound up, 1 vs 2. I would have loved to be in the Peabody tonight, around 6:00. By the way, Bruce Pearl was on my intramural B-ball team. He s#cked. I would come down the court on a fast break and never pass him the ball. He couldn’t hit the ocean. That said, he’s on the sidelines tonight and I’m in NJ.

  133. d2b says:
    February 23, 2008 at 9:24 pm

    KL-

    I actually mean the people who still blame Bill Clinton for everything. I’ve been listening to every W supporter blame Clinton for every mistake over the past seven years. Some can’t wait to dig up old quotes to justify every mistake.

    So if the economy takes a tailspin these same people will blame Obama or Clinton if one of them is elected. They don’t realize that this next administration isn’t starting with a clean slate.

  134. rhymingrealtor says:
    February 23, 2008 at 9:35 pm

    d2b,

    I know, I also meant they’ll blame (the other) clinton
    KL

  135. profuscious says:
    February 23, 2008 at 9:39 pm

    chi

    RE: Noonan

    apologies, my response was over the top. I think we are all biased in our politics to a degree. I am happily exposed. I don’t think I whiffed, I just bit.

    That said, I look forward to a healthy debate over the next year about who wears the nicest flag pin and who has the best “city on the hill”, “morning in America” metaphor.

    I guarantee you that Mccain will continue to peg Obama as a novice. We will have daily reminders about his lack of credentials. For Obama to win, he must use the judgement trumps experience argument until he’s hoarse.

    I personally think judgement trumps experience. A few examples:

    Donald Rumsfeld
    Dick Cheney
    Paul Wolfowitz
    Alan Greenspan

  136. njpatient says:
    February 23, 2008 at 9:57 pm

    92 ‘soosh

    Thanks
    Saved me saying it.

  137. Outofstater says:
    February 23, 2008 at 10:00 pm

    Politics is showbiz. Reagan was successful in 1980 because he offered hope and had the idea that America wasn’t such a bad place after all. It was such a change from years of stagflation and the overriding thought that we couldn’t do anything right. We built crummy cars, the economy was in the toilet and we had hostages in Iran. It was a very depressing time. I still remember the first time I saw the “It’s morning in America” commercial and I have to say, it was very effective.
    Obama seems to exude a similar feeling of hope only he has the added advantage of relative youth and what JFK called “vigah.” I think he’ll win in a landslide, regardless of his views. People will vote for the feeling, not the platform.

  138. Pat says:
    February 23, 2008 at 10:02 pm

    http://tinyurl.com/2fbq7a
    “The sector lost a staggering 42 percent, on average, in 2007 and 19 percent, annualized, over the last three years, according to the National Association of Real Estate Investment Trusts…

    But a handful of mortgage REITs is managing to rise above the rubble and even thrive as the economy falters…”

  139. njpatient says:
    February 23, 2008 at 10:04 pm

    99

    Chi

    It’s called a meme. And every single host on WABC 770 AM radio has repeating the same exact thing on air that la Noonan putin print.
    I’ll give you that may be evidence that a lot of people agree with Noonan, but it gives you the problem of having to make the same claim about the loony lineup on WABC has “no agenda”.

  140. t c m says:
    February 23, 2008 at 10:06 pm

    #131 –

    “So if the economy takes a tailspin these same people will blame Obama or Clinton if one of them is elected. They don’t realize that this next administration isn’t starting with a clean slate.”

    the election didn’t even happen yet, but some of you are coming up with reasons why hillary and obama can’t get the job done. they’re not even in office yet, and you’re giving us reasons why they’re going to fail – these people are running because they think they can solve the nation’s problems – that’s what they are telling us voters – that’s why their asking for our votes – your remarks, if you support them, don’t inspire confidence.

  141. Pat says:
    February 23, 2008 at 10:09 pm

    Clot once said he though Obama was going to be a simple target if he made it this far.

    It really doesn’t seem that anyone cares that much. People are just too beaten down.

    Clot, your over-sedated theory counters your black-dude-as-bullseye theory. Only problem will be someone like John going off his meds. He gets knocked off? The wife runs.

  142. njpatient says:
    February 23, 2008 at 10:41 pm

    111 clot

    Couldn’t agree more, particularly the last couple sentences. Bang on.

  143. njpatient says:
    February 23, 2008 at 10:49 pm

    If this bout goes 5 I’ll be shocked

  144. Rich In NNJ says:
    February 23, 2008 at 10:49 pm

    NNJJEFF (129),

    99 Ivy Lane
    It’s been attorney review since January 16

    2729743
    ACT 99 IVY LN $649,000 7/20/2007
    PCH 99 IVY LN $619,000 9/8/2007
    PCH 99 IVY LN $599,000 10/3/2007
    W-U 99 IVY LN $599,000 12/10/2007

    2748121 (relisted, same broker & agent)
    ACT 99 IVY LN $599,000 12/10/2007
    ACT* 99 IVY LN $599,000 1/16/2008

  145. profuscious says:
    February 23, 2008 at 10:57 pm

    ut – memphis

    nice to see two teams that can play ball. Haven’t seen a single flop from either team. Refreshing.

  146. njpatient says:
    February 23, 2008 at 10:58 pm

    123 lisoosh
    “weekly Question Time where they openly savaged the PM if he or she didn’t know their stuff.”

    I would pay a lot of $ to see that here. My family across the pond thinks we’re all a bit touched.

  147. Pat says:
    February 23, 2008 at 11:12 pm

    Touched as in:

    – “teched?”
    – “touched by an angel?”
    – “touched inappropriately” by a member of a religious community?

    I suppose all three combined kind of defines many folks.

  148. njpatient says:
    February 23, 2008 at 11:21 pm

    Pat
    Heh
    I meant the first, though I think I’d spell the vernacular “tetched”

  149. rhymingrealtor says:
    February 23, 2008 at 11:25 pm

    tcm,

    Please let me clarify, I don’t think John Mccain can get the job done either, I just don’t care if the old white guy gets blamed for the what the stupid white guy did.

    KL

  150. Confused In NJ says:
    February 23, 2008 at 11:27 pm

    Regardless of who get elected, if they are not willing or able to implement change, the problems can’t be solved. The first change necessary is to outlaw lobbyist’s. Those in Congress who vote against outlawing Lobbyist need to be identified on TV and the President (whom ever) needs to ask the public to vote them out, next time around. This won’t happen because National Parties (Donkey & Elepahant) are no different then Unions. They only serve their own members, Public be damned. The members do not include the general public who think they registered as Donkey’s or Elephants. Real Donkeys or Elephants are part of the inner circle. Everyone else, are Sheeple to be sheared.

  151. Confused In NJ says:
    February 23, 2008 at 11:33 pm

    NEW YORK (Reuters) – A New York shopping mall is doing its part to stimulate the struggling U.S. economy by giving away $20,000 in cash to unsuspecting passers-by, hoping that handing out $50 bills will boost consumer confidence.

    People dressed as Uncle Sam and the Statue of Liberty started handing out $1 bills around the borough of Queens earlier in the week, then began shelling out $50 bills at the Atlas Park shopping center on Friday

  152. Confused In NJ says:
    February 23, 2008 at 11:38 pm

    FRIDAY, Feb. 22 (HealthDay News) — The U.S. Food and Drug Administration on Friday approved the cancer drug Avastin for women with advanced breast cancer, going against the recommendation of its own advisory panel.

    When the president get’s rid of the Lobbyist (he or she) needs to also revamp the FDA to represent the People, not Big Pharma.

  153. profuscious says:
    February 23, 2008 at 11:41 pm

    don’t know if this made it through moderation

    Re: Obama the Novice

    I guarantee you that Mccain will continue to peg Obama as a novice. We will have daily reminders about his lack of credentials. For Obama to win judgement must trump experience.

    Prime examples:

    Donald Rumsfeld
    Dick Cheney
    Paul Wolfowitz
    Alan Greenspan

  154. reinvestor101 says:
    February 24, 2008 at 7:27 am

    Chi,

    Thanks for that great article by Noonan. It contains the key for working up a Hilliary like passion against Obama. His wife is not patriotic and I’ve heard more than once that he doesn’t salute the flag. If there’s one thing that gets me worked up real quick, it’s the lack of patriotism and love for this damn country. I don’t give a damn how nice and eloquent he is, if he does not express love for this country, he won’t get elected.

    For the republicans to win, we’ve got to work up some passion against Obama and this will do it. He’s got to be taken down and taken down hard.

  155. Frank says:
    February 24, 2008 at 7:35 am

    Bank of America Asks Congress for a $739 Billion Bank Bailout

    Interesting take on this subject.

    http://globaleconomicanalysis.blogspot.com/

  158. Clotpoll says:
    February 24, 2008 at 8:06 am

    Pat (142)-

    They’ll whack her, too. The bark-at-the-moon set is always fired up and ready to hate somebody.

    I still, unfortunately, think some nut will take a pop at Obama.

  159. reinvestor101 says:
    February 24, 2008 at 8:10 am

    Obama’s crowds are too big. Where are the crowds for McCain? This disparity can not continue.

    We need a strategy that calls for supressing Obama’s crowds and generating crowds for McCain. Obama is bad for American politics mainly because he’s attracting people who do not know the issues and how to vote intelligently.

    He must be stopped and the republican machine must begin to stop him now.

  160. Clotpoll says:
    February 24, 2008 at 8:22 am

    prof (146)-

    Commando basketball. Too bad Memphis can’t hit foul shots. Derrick Rose will be a nice NBA player next year.

    Very entertaining game. However, I’d assert that ACC refs have always been quick on the whistle. Teams have just learned to work the system.

  161. Salty Stave says:
    February 24, 2008 at 8:26 am

    On Sundays, http://www.dailyrecord.com usually posts the weeks real estate transfers. Is there another public place to get this information?

    …it looks like dailyrecord didn’t post it today.

  162. Clotpoll says:
    February 24, 2008 at 8:28 am

    Pat,

    Witness ReTard’s sage words in #155:

    “He’s got to be taken down and taken down hard.”

    Do we really think that there aren’t a significant number of people with about 10 IQ points less than ReTard- and more of an ax to grind- who wouldn’t hesitate to take some target practice on Obama?

  163. Quandry says:
    February 24, 2008 at 8:29 am

    Nothing, in my view, make an argument less effective than using the term “sheeple.” Let’s convince people to change their behavior by calling them dumb.

  164. Clotpoll says:
    February 24, 2008 at 8:32 am

    ReTard (160)-

    “Obama is bad for American politics mainly because he’s attracting people who do not know the issues and how to vote intelligently.”

    You, on the other hand, are bad for real estate, because you’re a tapped-out speculator who simultaneously wraps yourself in the flag and whines for the gubmint to become your personal wet nurse.

  165. Outofstater says:
    February 24, 2008 at 8:36 am

    #160 OK, that’s it. I now have a clue about Re – he’s fictional. He really lives inside the “Dr. Strangelove” movie and enters this reality only to post on this board. If he starts talking about a “mine shaft gap,” then we’ll know for sure.

  166. stu says:
    February 24, 2008 at 8:58 am

    REinvestor:

    You honestly and truly are so out of touch with reality that it actually hurts me inside when I see the ignorance inherent in your posts.

    Regardless of who gets the nomination for each party and the eventual presidency, I can rest assured that none of them are 1/1000th the ignoramus that you appear to be. Sh*t, I would vote for Bush again over someone with your short-sightedness and narrow mindedness.

  167. D says:
    February 24, 2008 at 8:59 am

    KL- I enjoyed your posts on this thread! :)

  168. stu says:
    February 24, 2008 at 9:05 am

    RE:

    Bush loved this country so much that he almost destroyed it. McCain could strip naked and literally hump the American flag on national TV and I would still vote for Obama.

    You, my friend, are the worst kind of patriot of all. One so stupid that you don’t believe in questioning authority. If you were alive at the time of the American Revolution, you would have happily continued paying taxes to the King of England.

  169. kettle1 says:
    February 24, 2008 at 9:27 am

    from NYTimes

    BOFA asks for bailout

    http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/23/business/23housing.html?_r=2&ref=business&pagewanted=all&oref=slogin

    A confidential proposal that Bank of America circulated to members of Congress this month provides a stunning glimpse of how quickly the industry has reversed its laissez-faire disdain for second-guessing by the government — now that it is in trouble.

    The proposal warns that up to $739 billion in mortgages are at “moderate to high risk” of defaulting over the next five years and that millions of families could lose their homes.

    To prevent that, Bank of America suggested creating a Federal Homeowner Preservation Corporation that would buy up billions of dollars in troubled mortgages at a deep discount, forgive debt above the current market value of the homes and use federal loan guarantees to refinance the borrowers at lower rates.

  170. chicagofinance says:
    February 24, 2008 at 9:39 am

    t c m Says:
    February 23rd, 2008 at 7:36 pm
    RE: noonan piece – i think it makes sense.
    just because you don’t agree with everything she says, doesn’t mean that you need to automatically disagree with anything she says.

    tcm: Said better than I did…..

  171. chicagofinance says:
    February 24, 2008 at 9:44 am

    FYI – I use my father-in-law as a window into a side of the country that I have virtually no contact.

    At this juncture, people in exurban Penn, Md & WVa are concerned that Obama is part of a sleeper cell Muslim extremist group.

    Bear in mind, I have lived in the midwest, and see a lot of stuff. Hell, at one point I lived within 20 minutes of the demilitarized border of the intellect-free zone known as the state of Indiana.

  172. spam spam bacon spam says:
    February 24, 2008 at 9:53 am

    [91]

    ‘Soosh,

    A 75 page document would take several hours to get thru. My commercial lease is 253 pages and the ECRA section alone is 22 pages…That took me a week of sitting in bed each night while I made margin notes, strikethroughs and additions…

    I’m ALL FOR holding borrowers responsible for their signatures. Trust me. I want ZERO bailouts, for ANYONE. And I have some family affected. I still feel “You reap what ye sow”.

    Nevertheless, I still think the system is gamed towards those who hold the cards.

    Brokers, they understand the products and the terminology. Lawyers, ditto.

    Buyers, it’s a once, maybe twice in a lifetime occurence… buyers don’t spend 8-10 hours a day, 5 or 6 days a week preparing for “this deal” like RE lawyers and brokers and mortgage company reps do…

    Even I, (who also reads everything), thought that all mortgages were able to be paid off early without penalty. Silly me. I would’ve been shocked to find out otherwise… and so, thinking this way, I would NOT have been “looking” to see if the opposite was true for my mortgage. Wouldn’t even be a blip on my radar screen of possible problems to look out for… Now reverse that and say, what if someone thought you ALWAYS had a prepayment penalty, and when they saw it in their paperwork, thought nothing more about it and read on…

    They just got suckered and didn’t know it.

    The more I think about, the more I feel the lawyers (!) are really supposed to be your purchase advocate (they’re the only person in the process who is hired by the buyer to represent the BUYER ONLY, and gains nothing from other parties…) and that we should ask why we allow a professional (lawyer) hired by someone (buyer) to not do due diligence and get away it.

    Just some musings…

  173. Confused In NJ says:
    February 24, 2008 at 9:58 am

    172.chicagofinance;

    The joke would be on Obama if he was an extremist. Trying to Work with the Kennedy Congress would probably drive him to commit suicide on the main floor of Congress. Even funnier is if McCain is the Manchurian Candidate & Obama is a Muslin Sleeper. That would be an interesting “High Noon”, Gary Cooper Style. Especially if Ted K get’s them drunk.

  174. Quandry says:
    February 24, 2008 at 10:00 am

    chifi:

    Old Joke: Pennsylvania, Philadelphia on one side, Pittburgh on the other….

    Alabama in the middle.

  175. Quandry says:
    February 24, 2008 at 10:08 am

    chifi:

    As a Hoosier (Boilermaker, actually.) I have to say Indiana is coming around slowly. Indy, Columbus (Cummins Diesel) and lots of japanese cash (Subaru, Honda et al) are slowly raising all ships. Great education base. Purdue, Indiana, ND, Rose-Hulman pump out lots of engineers.

    Granted there are still are Indiana’s version of the Ramapo Mountain People living in the southern hillcountry

  176. Clotpoll says:
    February 24, 2008 at 10:18 am

    Quandry (176)-

    Would you classify Larry Bird as one of those people?

    He’s Larry Legned and all…but that dude must sport one helluva brewed-up genetic profile.

  177. SG says:
    February 24, 2008 at 10:21 am

    Affordable housing crisis needs a broader view

    “Affordable housing” is a term that strikes fear into the hearts of municipal officials — at least when it’s tied to “requirements.” Put them together and it usually means more development, more loss of open space, more traffic and more strain on schools and services.

    Mostly things communities don’t want, in other words.

    And yet affordable housing is an important and pressing need all across the state. Every municipality has an obligation to provide a fair share, and wealthy communities can’t get away with the view that, well, maybe their town is simply beyond the means of the lesser masses.

    There is, however, something amiss in how those “fair shares” are determined. And the new third round of affordable housing mandates seems to be exposing those problems more than ever.

    New Jersey communities are told their allotment of units by the Council on Affordable Housing. Some towns have been more attentive to the mandates than others, allowing them to better manage where development will go to meet those obligations. Many communities that have resisted the COAH regulations have found themselves at the mercy of developer lawsuits that force unwanted construction upon them because of a failure to provide adequate affordable housing.

    The state has gone through two rounds of these requirements. Rules for the current third round were changed and initially sounded more promising, as they were more closely tied to growth. The idea, it seemed, was that if a community is choosing to grow — adding residents and jobs — then it should also increase availability of affordable units.

    But the formula also considers the amount of vacant land — meaning that communities that aren’t built out are being increasingly pushed toward more development. And with affordable housing demands increasing, the unit obligations are increasing as well for everyone.

    Meanwhile, other rule changes are designed to attack measures that some communities have used to temper their own burden. For instance, only 25 percent of affordable units can now be age-restricted — down from 50 percent. And there is talk of reducing or eliminating an option in which suburban towns have often paid urban towns to take on their obligations.

    Critics of COAH have recommended seeking more regional solutions, and we agree. Considering the growing need for affordable units, the old approach of simply sticking each town with a number and a deadline won’t work — not without inflicting significant hardship on many communities.

  178. t c m says:
    February 24, 2008 at 10:40 am

    clot –

    re: soccer

    do you know how you find out about club teams for high school boys in nj – and do you know of any good summer soccer camps in nj for h.s. boys?

  179. njpatient says:
    February 24, 2008 at 10:52 am

    “At this juncture, people in exurban Penn, Md & WVa are concerned that Obama is part of a sleeper cell Muslim extremist group.”

    Creationists have a lot of odd beliefs.

  180. t c m says:
    February 24, 2008 at 10:55 am

    #150 –

    rhymingrealtor Says:
    February 23rd, 2008 at 11:25 pm
    tcm,

    “Please let me clarify, I don’t think John Mccain can get the job done either, I just don’t care if the old white guy gets blamed for the what the stupid white guy did.”
    KL

    so then, if you think that no one will get the job done, and you want to blame a white man, then i guess you should be voting for john mccain. make sense?

  181. SG says:
    February 24, 2008 at 10:59 am

    Fannie, Freddie Expected to Post Big Losses

    Mortgage Squeeze: Mortgage giants Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac are expected to post big quarterly losses. Their shares declined Friday after Merrill Lynch downgraded them to “sell” from “neutral.”

  182. Quandry says:
    February 24, 2008 at 11:04 am

    chifi:

    You mean “The Hick from French Lick?” maybe, but Gil Hodges, Donnie Baseball and the “Chuck” Taylor are from about the same area.

  183. gary says:
    February 24, 2008 at 11:11 am

    As mentioned in post #36, we went to see a house yesterday for the 2nd time. Once again, I asked the realtor if there were hardwood floors under all that carpet and once again I received the “I don’t know” answer. Suzanne had a week to research this and didn’t. So, I took the liberty of finding a corner in the living room and peeling the rug back just enough to get a finger and a look-see in there. Answer: it’s all plywood flooring including upstairs bedrooms and hallway.

    Since the house was built in the late 70’s, I asked the realtor if the wiring was copper or aluminum as there was a time when aluminum was used during that period and has problems with oxidation and subsequently, a fire hazard. Answer from the realtor: “I don’t know.” Of course you don’t.

    I then asked the realtor if there was ever a flooding or water problem in the unfinished basement. You take a guess what the response was. Lotsa value from this realtor.

    So, as I stated form my earlier post, normal trendline appreciation + no upgrades + very rare prime buyer = 20% less than asking as the sale price.

    Case closed.

  184. Clotpoll says:
    February 24, 2008 at 11:14 am

    tcm (179)-

    For clubs, go to MNJYSA.org (I assume you’re in Central/North Jersey). Most of these clubs field teams up to U-19.

    A good outfit for camps is Dutch Total Soccer (www.soccerceners.com), out of Somerset. You can play there (indoors & outdoors), and they can also provide team trainers to your club. The trainers are all former professional players/coaches in Holland, and they can handle novice thru top-flight kids.

  185. lisoosh says:
    February 24, 2008 at 11:26 am

    spam – #173, Good points.

    I would guess that a lot of the lower income people who signed on never hired lawyers, they never had the money for it anyway. That leaves no excuse for all the reasonably well-off prime and alt-a borrowers who thought they were smart enough to game the system and lost.

    Probably the simplist solution would be one suggested elsewhere – the legal requirement of a main first page in plain English with the basic terms (prepayment penalty, escalating costs) laid out in order for the contract to be valid.

    And right at the top, the caveat that real estate agents and mortgage brokers are commissioned salespeople and that borrowers and homebuyers should seek out independent financial advice.

  186. njpatient says:
    February 24, 2008 at 11:28 am

    I’m shocked, gary – shocked!

  187. lisoosh says:
    February 24, 2008 at 11:34 am

    tcm – I DON”T agree with what she said. It is merely a rehash of:

    Not patriotic enough (no flag pin, with us or against us)
    Elitist (doesn’t understand average Americans, Ivy League)
    Not inspiring (flip flop, say anything to get elected….)
    Air of Entitlement (Hillary was Air of Inevitability, guess they like their “Air” mantra this year)

    And so on. Like Patient said, a meme. Just written for the pseudo intellectual “I’m smart and went to a good school but I’m not an Elitist, Ivory Tower type, I’m still a good old boy at heart” type of consumer.

  188. lisoosh says:
    February 24, 2008 at 11:40 am

    profuscious Says:
    “That said, I look forward to a healthy debate over the next year about who wears the nicest flag pin and who has the best “city on the hill”, “morning in America” metaphor.

    I guarantee you that Mccain will continue to peg Obama as a novice. We will have daily reminders about his lack of credentials. For Obama to win, he must use the judgement trumps experience argument until he’s hoarse.”

    At this moment I have very simple priorities –

    1. Must be intelligent, willing to read through documentation and actually be able to understand it.
    2. Ability to listen to dissent and learn from it.
    3. Basic priorities in line with my own.
    4. Relatively sane.

    All the rest is just a distraction, the media soundbite and mood of the moment garbage.

  189. t c m says:
    February 24, 2008 at 11:54 am

    #185 – clot

    thanks for the info.

  190. Dobe44 says:
    February 24, 2008 at 12:03 pm

    On Maplewood/S.O.

    Living in a town so a child will get an extra 20-30 points on their SAT is horrible reasoning. And probably faulty too: if the kid is smart and motivated, he’ll make the best of his opportunity set. If not, the best school won’t make him any smarter.

    And the way I see it, some adversity is good to teach a child how to overcome challenges and deal with difficult people.

    But putting a kid in a school with safety and discipline issues stacks the card against him such that its too large of a disadvantage.

    Anecdotal evidence indicates Columbia fits in the latter category. And I suspect that if published statistics were available on the discipline situation at Columbia, it would show the same thing.

  191. t c m says:
    February 24, 2008 at 12:11 pm

    #189 – lisoosh

    “2. Ability to listen to dissent and learn from it.”

    you see, this is what i’m talking about. i think it’s fair to ask michelle obama what she meant by never being proud of her country – especially in light of where she is now. let’s face it, she went to princeton and harvard, and her husband is a senator – not too shabby – (to me, she sounds like a whiner)

    if peggy noonan was talking about wearing flag pins, or you’re either with us or against us stuff – well then, i don’t agree with that – but i didn’t see it- but i don’t follow peggy noonan’s opinions, so she may have said it, and i missed it.

  192. pretorius says:
    February 24, 2008 at 12:35 pm

    Dobe44,

    First, New Jersey publishes statistics on suspensions and expulsions at the state’s public schools. What motivates you to base your opinions on anecdotes instead of the facts?

    I could rubbish plenty of suburban Essex and Morris schools by highlighting negative stuff that happened.

    Second, discipline stats reflect schools’ subjective discipline policies, making them inferior measures of academic performance when more objective indicators – state test results, AP test results, SAT scores – are available.

  193. prtraders2000 says:
    February 24, 2008 at 1:01 pm

    Sign of the times?

    I was just approached by a pan handler outside the Dunkin Donuts in West Caldwell. I know it’s no Brigadoon, but we do count a Supreme Court justice as one of our residents. I gave him my change.

  194. chicagofinance says:
    February 24, 2008 at 1:08 pm

    lisoosh Says:
    February 24th, 2008 at 11:40 am
    profuscious Says:
    At this moment I have very simple priorities –

    1. Must be intelligent, willing to read through documentation and actually be able to understand it.
    2. Ability to listen to dissent and learn from it.
    3. Basic priorities in line with my own.
    4. Relatively sane.

    5.? a spine?

  196. Fiddy Cents on the Dollar says:
    February 24, 2008 at 1:20 pm

    Give a man a donut and you have fed him for today. Teach a man to get up early and make the donuts….and Homer Simpson will be proud of you.

  197. Bystander says:
    February 24, 2008 at 1:35 pm

    Can anyone explain another MLS/realtor tactic – listing homes under the wrong zipcode? If I am searching Cranford’s zipcode, I don’t want a house in Roselle. They never correct the error either.

  198. scribe says:
    February 24, 2008 at 1:36 pm

    gary,

    Why are you even interested in this house?

    It sounds like a lemon.

    The realtor sounds like a lemon, too.

  199. Fiddy Cents on the Dollar says:
    February 24, 2008 at 1:53 pm

    That Zip Code thing is not strictly a Realtor trick.

    Lots of homeowners want a snazzy Zip….even if it means driving to the next town to pick up the mail every day (in an Escalade, no doubt).

  200. lisoosh says:
    February 24, 2008 at 2:33 pm

    Chi – Spine could be nice too. As distinguished from bloody minded stubborness which Bush possesses in spades.

  201. d2b says:
    February 24, 2008 at 2:41 pm

    We bought a house that is 100 feet from our desired town. We are in the same township, but we wanted to purchase in the other town. We found out when we wrote up the offer on the house. It’s confusing but our zip code is based on the city. The city is in three different townships. All three share the same school district.

    It doesn’t matter now, but I will get my own appraisal if I ever sell. The appraiser when I purchased pulled comps from the zip code, not the township.

  202. JIM says:
    February 24, 2008 at 2:47 pm

    I went to an open house today, I did no realize that Morris County was immune to any appreciable decline,the Weichert Realtor assured me of this.

    The realtor said Morris County is at the bottom, that is the reason interest
    rates are going up, the perfect time to buy, GEE where have a heard that before…thanks Grim.

    But rest assured she{realtor} will still be able to get me a rate that is around 6%.

    I am sure that I will be getting follow up calls from her, I wish I had Clot’s # .

    JIM

  203. lisoosh says:
    February 24, 2008 at 2:52 pm

    tcm:
    “you see, this is what i’m talking about. i think it’s fair to ask michelle obama what she meant by never being proud of her country – especially in light of where she is now. let’s face it, she went to princeton and harvard, and her husband is a senator – not too shabby – (to me, she sounds like a whiner)

    if peggy noonan was talking about wearing flag pins, or you’re either with us or against us stuff – well then, i don’t agree with that – but i didn’t see it- but i don’t follow peggy noonan’s opinions, so she may have said it, and i missed it.”

    Michelle Obama didn’t say she was never proud of her country. The sentence used was “first time I am REALLY proud of my country”. I don’t know the rest of the speech or the context or who she was speaking to at the time – these are stump speeches during the primaries designed to stir up the party faithful. I do know that it is absolutely impossible to guage a persons patriotism (which refers to their siding with their own country intead of others) or pride in their nation from 7 words separated from the rest of the speech. It is difficult to know anything about her at all from that. But it is a useful little refrain to build something out of if a person has time and the inclination.

    Would you be more comfortable if she had used the sentence –
    “I have never been MORE proud of my country than I am now”? All nicely packaged by a professional speechwriter. It’s what we are used to, but it doesn’t make the speaker any wiser or smarter or better.
    And I’ll be honest. There hasn’t been much of anything to be proud OF in the past few years.

    Maybe she is a whiner. But I’d like to take more than 7 throwaway words to make that judgement. It’s like the women who cry that they won’t vote for Hillary because they can’t stand her pantsuits, or her lipstick or her husband. There has to be a better reason than that. And I’d assume Michelle Obama wants to take credit for her own entry into Princeton and Harvard rather than just yes, thank you so much for allowing me in.

    As for the pins. It has been the mantra of much of the right wing attack dogs that if he doesn’t wear the right pin or tear up properly at the national anthem (ie. put on a good show for the cameras) then he can’t be patriotic enough. Just like anyone who didn’t want to invade Iraq wasn’t supporting the troops, or spoke out against Bush was being anti-American. The Wall Street crowd isn’t the pin and bumper sticker crowd. But like any good salesperson (and that is what she is at heart), Peggy Noonan writes for her audience. The language is different, but the themes are the same.

  204. lisoosh says:
    February 24, 2008 at 2:59 pm

    And I wrote the above as someone who still wants Bloomberg to enter the race!

    (Ducks as lostinny throws something at my head).

  205. reinvestor101 says:
    February 24, 2008 at 3:06 pm

    Let me tell you something, you Obamacist, Bush has protected this damn country and the evidence is your freedom to run off at the damn mouth. You’re a pervert as well. McCain would never do that to the flag.

    I see where Obama gets his support; from a bunch of damn ingrates and the “hate America first” crowd. Hell, Obama hates America so it stands to reason that people like you would run up to support him. Let me tell you something, you people will not win this election. Those who love this country will now to mobilized. No smooth talking hating on America democrat is going to get past first base. People like you is all we need to work up the passion. Keep running off at the mouth.

    Stu Says:
    February 24th, 2008 at 9:05 am
    RE:

    Bush loved this country so much that he almost destroyed it. McCain could strip naked and literally hump the American flag on national TV and I would still vote for Obama.

    You, my friend, are the worst kind of patriot of all. One so stupid that you don’t believe in questioning authority. If you were alive at the time of the American Revolution, you would have happily continued paying taxes to the King of England.

  206. lostinny says:
    February 24, 2008 at 3:11 pm

    203 & 204
    Lisoosh, very well written and I agree with you wholeheartedly. As for throwing something, I would never. But I promise you that if he was elected, you’d want to throw something at his head.
    BTW, what does your handle mean?

  207. lostinny says:
    February 24, 2008 at 3:13 pm

    Speaking of Bloomberg:
    Cuts clobber school programs from the Staten Island Advance

    http://www.silive.com/news/index.ssf/2008/02/cuts_clobber_school_programs.html

  208. reinvestor101 says:
    February 24, 2008 at 3:17 pm

    I’m a native born Hoosier as well and I dispute your characterization of the people of the great state of Indiana. Besides, you appear to have gone to the wrong school in the first place. There’s only one big ten university in that state that’s worthy of recognition and it’s not in Lafayette–it’s in Bloomington. You guys at Purdue may be a bunch of hayseeds, but that’s not the case at INDIANA UNIVERSITY. We just spanked you guy’s hindparts yet again the other day, so I’m surprised that you’d even admit to being a boilermaker:-)

    Quandry Says:
    February 24th, 2008 at 10:08 am
    chifi:

    As a Hoosier (Boilermaker, actually.) I have to say Indiana is coming around slowly. Indy, Columbus (Cummins Diesel) and lots of japanese cash (Subaru, Honda et al) are slowly raising all ships. Great education base. Purdue, Indiana, ND, Rose-Hulman pump out lots of engineers.

    Granted there are still are Indiana’s version of the Ramapo Mountain People living in the southern hillcountry

  209. Bloodbath in Winter 2007 says:
    February 24, 2008 at 3:25 pm

    Re – Come on, you simpleton …lay off the politics, because it’s clear you know less about how the country works than about real estate – if that’s possible.

    How about enthralling us all with your take on religion?

  210. Ann says:
    February 24, 2008 at 3:31 pm

    Gary, are you going to make an offer then? I would think you could get the wiring and flooding questions answered before then? The hardwood, you found out on your own.

  211. Rich In NNJ says:
    February 24, 2008 at 3:32 pm

    All of you can drop your political rhetoric.
    Except for the formalities, the race is over.
    Nader’s back!
    And this time’s different!

  212. Bloodbath in Winter 2007 says:
    February 24, 2008 at 3:34 pm

    KETTLE – Are you really purchasing a place in Dominica?

    I rarely hear anyone talk about that tiny country. My dad was born there and grew up there. If you are seeking tips or have questions, feel free to ask Grim for my email.

  213. Confused In NJ says:
    February 24, 2008 at 3:36 pm

    I saw one newscast that did some exit poll interviews and an interesting point made by several folks was they picked Obama over Clinton simply because they don’t view Hillary as separate from Bill. Haven’t seen anything on this issue in mainstream reporting, but it would appear that Hillary is not falling behind based upon gender, rather it’s based upon being married to an ex President. It looks like a divorced Hillary would have been a much stronger candidate.

  214. lisoosh says:
    February 24, 2008 at 3:44 pm

    lostinny –

    Thanks. It’s an old nickname, something an old friend calls me that gradually grew into my regular online handle. My friend is quite pleased.

    Confused – often wondered if she would have been better running as a Rodham.

    tcm – here is a link to an article that just popped up detailing what I was just discussing. It is pretty clearly part of a pattern, not some deep insight PN suddenly came up with.”

    http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5j7h3tqXBVMkt-Ig_c0Dz025_-jJQD8V0M9VG0

    “On Monday, Michelle Obama told an audience in Milwaukee, “For the first time in my adult life, I am really proud of my country. Not just because Barack is doing well, but I think people are hungry for change.”

    Barack Obama has expressed frustration that his wife’s remarks had been taken out of context and turned into political fodder — both the Obamas say she was talking about politics in the United States, not the country itself.”

  215. t c m says:
    February 24, 2008 at 3:51 pm

    #203 –

    i believe it was off a WRITTEN speech she made more than one time – not off the cuff.

    i heard the rest of the speech – it doesn’t answer the question.

    that’s fine anyway. politicians can either address voters concerns, or ignore them claiming that the concern is stupid because they don’t agree with it. if they like, they can also continue to make off-putting comments and alienate voters – at their own risk – of course, this goes for all politicians, not just the obamas.

  216. Quandry says:
    February 24, 2008 at 3:59 pm

    rein:

    I guess that’s what I get for being kind. The real scores are:

    Astronauts
    Purdue: 22
    IU: 0

    Men on Moon
    Purdue: 3
    IU: 0

    Boni:

    First and Last men on moon. (Armstrong, Cernan)
    Apollo 8 Heros. (Grissom, Chaffee)

    Thats just engineering.

    B-School per USNews:
    Purdue Krannert: 22
    IU: 24 (For a financial guy that must hurt)

    I would go on but my fingers are getting tired.

    IU: 24

    But I do congratulate you on finding a job outside of Indiana.

  217. Bloodbath in Winter 2007 says:
    February 24, 2008 at 4:09 pm

    Sorry, just catching up on Friday’s weekend thread …

    Just for kicks, decided to look up what the Glen Rock police made in 2006 …. 6 of 10 listed here made over 100k.

    http://php.app.com/pfrs/results.php?last=&rest=&agency=GLEN+ROCK+BOROUGH&group=Police&Submit=Search

    What were the crime levels in Glen Rock in 2006? What will their pension be like?

    Nothing against fire/police … but those salaries are extraordinary. now if you told me this is what the cops in newark or trenton were making … well, that’s another story

  218. Quandry says:
    February 24, 2008 at 4:09 pm

    chifi:

    I apologize whole heartedly. You are throughly correct in your description of my fair state. But,

    When I dream about the moonlight on the Wabash,
    How I long for my Indiana home.

  219. lisoosh says:
    February 24, 2008 at 4:12 pm

    tcm –

    It was a spoken speech.

    And they did respond, several times:

    From ABC

    “About his wife’s comments in Wisconsin, Obama said, “I think she already clarified this. She was very clear about it. She simply misspoke. Because what she was referring to is this was the first time she’d been proud of politics in America. And that’s true for a lot of folks who had been cynical and disenchanted. She spoke about how she’d been cynical of American politics for a very long time, but she’s proud of how people are participating and involved in ways they haven’t for a very long time.””

    I’m not sure how much more they can address “voters concerns”, hand over their first born as a blood sacrifice? I’m not even sure how to distinguish voters true concerns with what the election machine declares to be their concerns. I’m a voter and I certainly don’t worry that a single one of the people who have run for President during these primaries, on either side isn’t patriotic enough.

    But, to be fair – what exactly is it you want them to say or do to prove themselves to you? How much should either of them prostrate themselves on the alter of accountability? How can Michelle Obama make amends for that sentence?

  220. lisoosh says:
    February 24, 2008 at 4:16 pm

    tcm – Perhaps I should step back a bit – how would you define patriotism, and what public expressions of it do you expect?

  221. lostinny says:
    February 24, 2008 at 4:19 pm

    Blood,
    I’m glad you brought that up. When I posed the question earlier in the week about switching NYC police salaries with those in the suburbs no one answered. Since no one answered, I’m guessing it doesn’t matter where police make those kinds of salaries, people just don’t think they should make that much.

  222. Bloodbath in Winter 2007 says:
    February 24, 2008 at 4:24 pm

    In major cities, i have no problems paying cops $$$. Not that i care, but what, exactly, are the major problems in these NJ towns that warrant the salaries?

  223. lostinny says:
    February 24, 2008 at 4:34 pm

    Blood,
    I can’t answer that question. But I do have another. Does the officer have to live in the town he/she works in? If so, how does a cop live in these towns without making that kind of money?

  224. t c m says:
    February 24, 2008 at 4:39 pm

    #221 –

    i’m not talking about patriotism – i’m not talking about flag pins, not lipstick, not prostrating themselves, not alters of accountability, not pantsuits, first born blood sacrifices and all that other drama and hysterics you brought up.

    I heard her explanation, and it was a non-explanation.

    “She simply misspoke.” – is all that was necessary from the get go. Too bad her husband had to explain it for her. But, it’s better than nothing i guess.

    I think we’ve exhausted this topic.

  225. Jim says:
    February 24, 2008 at 4:43 pm

    Ironically many towns use the system where policemen only work 3 days a week but ten hour days. Which comes down to 160 days a year.

    Ten hours a day sitting in the patrol car is not an easy day, plus if they give tickets out, they must appear in court. That equates to more overtime

    Policemen can retire after 20 years,so expect pension system to be shored up by taxpayers, teacher’s pension has same problems.

    Next question I have for people is” Why is NJ losing population?”

  226. Hard Place says:
    February 24, 2008 at 4:44 pm

    lostinny,

    That means NYC cops should be starting off in 6 figures to live in NYC. Cost of living in NJ suburbs are easily 50% as much for equivalent housing, so that means these guys should be earning 1/2 as much.

  227. Jim says:
    February 24, 2008 at 4:44 pm

    Re226 I am sorry thay was4 days a week, with 3 days off.

    JIM

  228. lostinny says:
    February 24, 2008 at 4:47 pm

    Hard Place
    Don’t confuse Manhattan with all of NYC. It doesn’t cost as much to live in Queens as it does to live in Manhattan.

  229. gary says:
    February 24, 2008 at 4:59 pm

    Scribe/Ann,

    The house has the potential to be really nice. The kitchen and baths need to be redone and no way I’m replacing carpet with carpet. It’s hardwood and not that pergo sh*t. The roof and furnace are only a couple of years old. It is a 4 BD/2.5 BTH and the master BD is nice size but the other 3 BDs are smallish but for the size of the house, it’s OK.

    Again, we’re talking approx. 2500 sq. ft. so that’s fine for me and mine. I would make an offer if they call but I’m not making the call and the offer is 20% of the current asking. Nothing more. The taxes are $12,000/yr. BTW.

  230. gary says:
    February 24, 2008 at 5:00 pm

    I meant I would only do hardwood and nothing else.

  231. Outofstater says:
    February 24, 2008 at 5:03 pm

    #216 You forgot the Nobel Prize winner – Brown for chemistry, around 1980. IU has better architecture though – all that Bedford limestone. Ya gotta admit it’s prettier than all that red brick at Purdue along with the washing machine agitator fountain in front of Hovde Hall.

  232. lostinny says:
    February 24, 2008 at 5:04 pm

    Gary- you meant 20% off?

  233. Ann says:
    February 24, 2008 at 5:15 pm

    229 Gary

    Yeah, sounds like it needs a bit of a face lift. Good luck with it, I’m sure you’ll have time to think about it!

  234. gary says:
    February 24, 2008 at 5:16 pm

    lost,

    Yes, 20% off. Oops! LOL.

  235. kettle1 says:
    February 24, 2008 at 5:21 pm

    bloodbath

    Yes i am serious about dominica. I have been there a few times and my brother and i decided we liked it enough to buy some property and plan to build on it. We have done extensive research and consulted with the various attorneys and real estate people to ensure our T are crossed and i’s dotted.
    My family is more into the nature thing then the developed thing. We love St John, but it is just getting too built up in the last 5+ years.
    Also, the people in dominica are great, from our experience. the only bad part about the island is the flight in/out but its well worth it.

  236. gary says:
    February 24, 2008 at 5:23 pm

    Ann,

    I have a feeing the realtor will call me mid-week to get my feedback. She’s probably going to wait until after this weekend to see if there was any action and to see if she gets any phone calls from potential buyers. It’s a good litmus test.

  237. reinvestor101 says:
    February 24, 2008 at 5:25 pm

    Give me a break. All you guys did at Purdue back in the day was run around with slide rules and sit around looking at a mule’s azz while taking agriculture classes. Hell, you’re supposed to be an engineering and agriculture school, so I’d hope that you’d generate some engineering folks.

    As to Krannert, there’s no way you guys are beating Kelley School period. I don’t give a crap what US News got bribed to say.

    I’ve been gone away from Indiana for quite some time and am amazed about the changes whenever I go back. Of course, I’m from Indianapolis which is a much different than the outlying towns to the north and south of the city. Don’t try to act like the whole state is a mirror of small town Indiana.

    Quandry Says:
    February 24th, 2008 at 3:59 pm
    rein:

    I guess that’s what I get for being kind. The real scores are:

    Astronauts
    Purdue: 22
    IU: 0

    Men on Moon
    Purdue: 3
    IU: 0

    Boni:

    First and Last men on moon. (Armstrong, Cernan)
    Apollo 8 Heros. (Grissom, Chaffee)

    Thats just engineering.

    B-School per USNews:
    Purdue Krannert: 22
    IU: 24 (For a financial guy that must hurt)

    I would go on but my fingers are getting tired.

    IU: 24

    But I do congratulate you on finding a job outside of Indiana.

  238. reinvestor101 says:
    February 24, 2008 at 5:55 pm

    Someone had to have bribed US News to rank Purdue’s Krannert School of Business above IU’s Kelley School. Normally, I don’t get into the whole ranking thing, but there was a lie that was posted and therefore, it became necessary to set the record straight. We all know that business week is the definitive source for this sort of thing. Here’s a link to a more reputatable source for this information:

    http://www.businessweek.com/bschools/rankings/

    As you can see IU is ranked at 18 while Krannert barely makes the top 30 coming in at 24. You guys can’t beat us at basketball and you damn sure can beat us at B-School quality.

  239. reinvestor101 says:
    February 24, 2008 at 5:58 pm

    I said: “You guys can’t beat us at basketball and you damn sure can beat us at B-School quality”

    I meant to say: “You guys can’t beat us at basketball and you damn sure can’t beat us at B-School quality.”

  240. lisoosh says:
    February 24, 2008 at 6:09 pm

    Back to Real Estate….:-)

    Been hearing about more than a few people who are underwater considering buying a second, smaller home, sometimes under a spouses name and then walking away and foreclosing on the first one after draining it for all they can.

    Any input?

  241. lostinny says:
    February 24, 2008 at 6:17 pm

    240
    While I find the idea pretty disgusting, it doesn’t surprise me. Some people just don’t want to live within their means. God forbid they go back to the slums of renting. :)

  242. Clotpoll says:
    February 24, 2008 at 6:17 pm

    ReTard (208)-

    Where’s Kelvin?

  243. Clotpoll says:
    February 24, 2008 at 6:21 pm

    ReTard (237)-

    “I’ve been gone away from Indiana for quite some time and am amazed about the changes whenever I go back.”

    One thing never changes: you are the offspring of two first cousins.

  244. Clotpoll says:
    February 24, 2008 at 6:27 pm

    soosh (240)-

    It’s easier under a girlfriend or significant other’s name, and I’ve seen it happen twice in the last six months.

    One of them was brilliant: the guy (who I knew a little) stripped the equity out of his NJ home via a Bank of America HELOC that he got over the phone. They approved him in 20 minutes, did a drive-by appraisal the following week, and sent him a kitchen table closing kit within 10 days. Bang.

    He then took his NJ equity to Charlotte, made a DP on a standing new construction home where the builder had a last-minute fall-through, closed within 30 days on that, then defaulted on his NJ payments. I don’t think he even made one payment on his HELOC.

  245. Clotpoll says:
    February 24, 2008 at 6:29 pm

    (244)-

    I forgot to add: the Charlotte house was mortgaged under his GF’s name & credit, then he was put on the deed post-closing.

  246. D says:
    February 24, 2008 at 6:32 pm

    Gary, the house sounds like it would be a good fit for you all. I’m not remembering… would you still need to sell your current house? Good luck with Suzanne, the Rocket Science Realtor!

    Cops retire with 20 years in regardless of age. Teachers have 25 years in plus 55 years old. More cops make over $100k than teachers, imo & in some towns, the teachers do more policing!

    Reinvestor- you are not fun to read. Time for your medication, methinks.

  247. D says:
    February 24, 2008 at 6:33 pm

    Clot…wow! That is amazing & disgusting all at once.

  248. Quandry says:
    February 24, 2008 at 6:43 pm

    re:

    Sir! You have proceeded to besmirch the good name of my fair Alma Mater and thusly manifested my ire to an extent not yet witnessed. Such malfeasance shall not be tolerated. Yet, dear sir, I shall presently take my leave. A rendering of a contest of machine alacrity accompanied with the diversion of hearty mead beckons me hence. Verily, we shall have our time….I bid thee farewell….for now.

  249. Clotpoll says:
    February 24, 2008 at 6:48 pm

    D (247)-

    Which? The equity-stripping tale, or the fact that ReTard has three chromosomes?

  250. Clotpoll says:
    February 24, 2008 at 6:50 pm

    Quandary (248)-

    “A rendering of a contest of machine alacrity accompanied with the diversion of hearty mead beckons me hence.”

    NASCAR and beer?

  251. Quandry says:
    February 24, 2008 at 6:52 pm

    you can take the boy out of the country…..

  252. Quandry says:
    February 24, 2008 at 6:58 pm

    Ryan Newman 2008 Daytona 500 Winner:

    Purdue University, B.S. Vehicle Structure Engineering

  253. jmacdaddio says:
    February 24, 2008 at 7:02 pm

    Did anyone else out there try to hit the open houses? I took a spin around Quailbrook in Franklin/Somerset and I only saw two signs. One sign was for a property I saw at an OH last Sunday, where supposedly a couple was “about to make an offer”. Either this couple decided to not make an offer or the realtor was lying to get me to make a move (as preposterous as that sounds – realtors never lie, right?).

    Another sign was for a section which was 55+ unbeknownst to me. The realtor seemed thrilled to see me but once I took off my sunglasses and realized that I had another 20 years at least before I was eligible, she told me news, which wasn’t too disappointing because the unit looked kinda small and kinda 80s. The Buicks and Lincoln Town Cars in the parking lot should have tipped me off to the 55+ requirement but I didn’t know any better. I managed to glance at the sign-in sheet: only one name at 3:15 P.M. Not exactly the foot traffic a seller would want.

  254. lisoosh says:
    February 24, 2008 at 7:03 pm

    Clot – if he was put on the deed, even after the fact, can they go after the Carolinas home during the foreclosure or is that unlikely?

  255. lisoosh says:
    February 24, 2008 at 7:05 pm

    jmac – I e-mailed you the information of that guy looking to sell. Did you get it?

  256. crossroads says:
    February 24, 2008 at 7:08 pm

    who pays the realtor fee for a rental tenant or landlord? whats the norm?

  257. Clotpoll says:
    February 24, 2008 at 7:14 pm

    soosh (254)-

    Probably not. Most residential mortgages are non-recourse. This guy is also not the mortgagor on his NC house…the note is in his GF’s name.

  258. Sybarite says:
    February 24, 2008 at 7:15 pm

    #256

    Norm is tenant. I’ve never really understood that; IMO the only way it would EVER be worth it is if I was ultra-super-busy and/or lazy, or had to find an apt in an emergency of some sort.

  259. Sybarite says:
    February 24, 2008 at 7:16 pm

    jmac: is that the place where the couple’s parents were supposedly going to help them out?

  260. Clotpoll says:
    February 24, 2008 at 7:17 pm

    Quan (252)-

    Dude, it’s a 500-mile left turn.

  261. Clotpoll says:
    February 24, 2008 at 7:18 pm

    Dig the crashes and the fistfights, though.

  262. Clotpoll says:
    February 24, 2008 at 7:19 pm

    Also the cheating.

  263. crossroads says:
    February 24, 2008 at 7:24 pm

    thanks Sybarite,
    the only way you could rent something from the gsmls is to pay the fee which seems crazy to part w/ 31/2 months to get in the door ouch! now wonder people went to no money down I.O. loans

  264. Ann says:
    February 24, 2008 at 7:26 pm

    236 Gary

    Oh yeah, they’ll be calling. Every listing agent of every single house we looked at called our agent, some multiple times.

  265. reinvestor101 says:
    February 24, 2008 at 7:31 pm

    Yeah, well I hate Purdue and the besmirching is well deserved. My ire is aroused just at the mere mention of that school’s name. You do have a chance to redeem yourself; give back your Purdue degree and disown that institution while simultaneously doing what 90% of Hoosiers do; embrace Indiana University. You have to admit that IU is far more storied and popular than Purdue. You don’t have to continue to resent that; join the IU family!

    Quandry Says:
    February 24th, 2008 at 6:43 pm
    re:

    Sir! You have proceeded to besmirch the good name of my fair Alma Mater and thusly manifested my ire to an extent not yet witnessed. Such malfeasance shall not be tolerated. Yet, dear sir, I shall presently take my leave. A rendering of a contest of machine alacrity accompanied with the diversion of hearty mead beckons me hence. Verily, we shall have our time….I bid thee farewell….for now.

  266. reinvestor101 says:
    February 24, 2008 at 7:36 pm

    That does it Clod. You pushed me too far this time. There needs to be a face to face to settle this shlt once and for all.

    How about an appointment at high noon on Monday, March 10th? You wanna know what’s on the meeting agenda? A beatdown.

    Clotpoll Says:
    February 24th, 2008 at 6:21 pm
    ReTard (237)-

    “I’ve been gone away from Indiana for quite some time and am amazed about the changes whenever I go back.”

    One thing never changes: you are the offspring of two first cousins.

  267. Clotpoll says:
    February 24, 2008 at 7:40 pm

    xroads (263)-

    A very large amount of GSMLS rental listings feature the landlord paying the fee.

  268. Clotpoll says:
    February 24, 2008 at 7:41 pm

    ReTard (266)-

    Trust me, if you get within sight of me, I’ll shoot you.

    How will I know who you are? You’ll be the one whose eyes point in two different directions.

  269. Clotpoll says:
    February 24, 2008 at 7:43 pm

    ReTard (266)-

    You can’t even show at a GTG.

    Troll.

  270. Clotpoll says:
    February 24, 2008 at 7:44 pm

    ReTard-

    Where’s Kelvin?

  271. crossroads says:
    February 24, 2008 at 7:49 pm

    clot
    this one didn’t say in the listing. I would have thought it would have been mentioned in the listing. I was told it was the norm for north jersey

  272. reinvestor101 says:
    February 24, 2008 at 7:55 pm

    Let me take this question first since this is a dangerous question for my alma mater’s reputation.

    As soon as Sampson was discovered to have violated the recruiting rules, the university moved to clean up matters by terminating him. He was definitely a decent coach, but had problems keeping track of the rules. I’m hoping Bobby Knight got wind of this and resigned Texas Tech in aniticipation of IU wooing him back. I’d love it to be Knight-time once more in Bloomington. The Indiana b-ball program is one of the most storied and elite programs in the nation primarily because of Knight and he needs to be brought back to head it up.

    Clotpoll Says:
    February 24th, 2008 at 7:44 pm
    ReTard-

    Where’s Kelvin?

  273. chicagofinance says:
    February 24, 2008 at 7:59 pm

    Sounds like we gots ’em some Hoosiers here. Can I at least rag on Notre Dame? My wife and I drove through there about 4 years ago and I was soundly underwhelmed. What a stale sack of %hit…..it had all the charisma of a piece of toast…

  275. BC Bob says:
    February 24, 2008 at 8:21 pm

    Chi,

    There was charisma when I was dancing on the field with Glenn Foley and Tom Coughlin when we upset the #1 undefeated Irish.

    http://youtube.com/watch?v=cHO0J75iUSY&feature=related

  276. jmacdaddio says:
    February 24, 2008 at 8:22 pm

    Lisoosh,

    Your friend contacted me, thanks!

    Sybarite,

    Last week I saw a 2BR 1.5BA condo in Quailbrook which was nice but overpriced at 247k (MLS 812688). The listing realtor fed me a line about how a couple’s parents were coming by one evening to have a look, which could mean that the parents are getting involved financially, or that the buyers want the parents to offer their approval – in either case supposedly a sign that the other party might make an offer. Clot sent me some valuable info about the listing agent, and the fact that she set up another open house today leads me to think that these “other buyers” are about as real as Santa Claus.

  277. Quandry says:
    February 24, 2008 at 8:25 pm

    FLASH…FLASH….FLASH…..

    In an unprecedented turn of events….

    Bob Knight to return to Indiana as head basketball coach…….

    John Wooden to return to Purdue as head basketball coach….

    DEVELOPING….

    END FLASH

  278. Clotpoll says:
    February 24, 2008 at 8:42 pm

    Tard (272)-

    Dean Smith never choked players, belittled the school administration, got arrested in foreign countries, assaulted students…or turned out a bigger stiff of an NBA player than Kent Benson.

  279. profuscious says:
    February 24, 2008 at 8:42 pm

    Do they still race bicycles in Bloomington?

  280. Clotpoll says:
    February 24, 2008 at 8:42 pm

    ..there was Jeff Crompton, though…

  281. D says:
    February 24, 2008 at 8:55 pm

    Clot, #249 Equally mind-blowing…what away to start the week!

    Re, why the 10th??

  282. mr potter says:
    February 24, 2008 at 8:58 pm

    CLot, Kent Benson….WOW

    He sucked out loud

  283. d2b says:
    February 24, 2008 at 9:01 pm

    I’d like to see Jay Wright go to Indiana. Then Larry Brown would go to Villanova.

  284. NNJJEFF says:
    February 24, 2008 at 9:05 pm

    #145
    Thanx Rich

  285. Clotpoll says:
    February 24, 2008 at 9:08 pm

    D (281)-

    “Re, why the 10th??”

    Maybe that’s the day his Clonopin script runs out.

  286. PeaceNow says:
    February 24, 2008 at 9:32 pm

    re: indiana.

    i’m a proud graduate of Valparaiso University.

  287. Clotpoll says:
    February 24, 2008 at 9:43 pm

    Peas (286)-

    Two words: Bryce Drew.

  288. StephenS says:
    February 24, 2008 at 9:44 pm

    I love the Indiana talk. My family moved from Indianapolis 25 years ago when I was in grade school. For a long time, I felt out of place in NJ since my family had immigrated from Europe hundreds of years ago and I didn’t go to CCD. However, when I go back to visit my family (especially in Southern Indiana), I am so glad we left. My cousins have kids when they are in high school (some are grandparents already), and my aunts and uncles carve out parts of their 100-acre farmland to give their kids a lot to drop a double-wide. Sometimes I see the prices of real estate and property taxes, and I’m tempted to go back. In Southern Indiana, you can get a 3BR/2BA for $75K and $800/yr in property taxes! However, I don’t think I can handle that lifestyle now that I know what else the world has to offer.

  289. RentinginNJ says:
    February 24, 2008 at 9:49 pm

    Been hearing about more than a few people who are underwater considering buying a second, smaller home, sometimes under a spouses name and then walking away and foreclosing on the first one after draining it for all they can.

    Any input?

    Unethical, yet perfectly rational.

    This is what happens when you drop lending standards and don’t require borrowers to have any skin in the game. Of course borrowers are going to act I their own economic best self interest. Should this really come as a surprise?

  290. reinvestor101 says:
    February 24, 2008 at 9:53 pm

    Sure, Knight may have had his moments, but he literally built the storied b-ball progam at Indiana University. In a state where basketball is king, his image and that of Indiana basketball are inseparable. There’s not many former player out there who will critize Knight. There were no scandals under Knight and pretty much everyone graduated.

    It needs to be Knight-time once again in Assembly Hall.

    Clotpoll Says:
    February 24th, 2008 at 8:42 pm
    Tard (272)-

    Dean Smith never choked players, belittled the school administration, got arrested in foreign countries, assaulted students…or turned out a bigger stiff of an NBA player than Kent Benson.

  291. reinvestor101 says:
    February 24, 2008 at 9:56 pm

    profuscious Says:
    February 24th, 2008 at 8:42 pm
    Do they still race bicycles in Bloomington?

    I’m sure the little 500 is still being run.

  292. looking says:
    February 24, 2008 at 10:48 pm

    Grim,
    Thanks for all the hard work you put into this blog. A while back there was a discussion regarding water filtration systems. I vaguely remember you posting one you liked. Would you mind posting it again? Thanks.

  293. Outofstater says:
    February 24, 2008 at 10:50 pm

    Re: Clot is right – go back on your meds. The whole IU-Purdue thing you’re raving about does not exist. It is a friendly rivalry, nothing more. If you’ve noticed, there are few overlaps in the programs – Purdue has engineering, ag, vet med and pharmacy. IU has liberal arts, law and the med school. Grow up! Can we go back to talking about New Jersey, my beloved home state now?

  295. gryffindor says:
    February 24, 2008 at 11:04 pm

    My brother is currently a Boilermaker. He is a big sports fan and growing up in NY he had no college teams to cheer for because of the whack disjointed SUNY system. Therefore he loves being at Purdue. His only reason for picking it is because it is in the Big 10. My dad only agreed to pay because of the engineering reputation of the school.

    In real estate talk, my dad told me tonight he is fed up of looking at houses in NJ that have been sitting there since the summer and have taken only haircuts or no cuts in price. Not surprisingly, he has started to seriously look at rental homes instead.

  296. reinvestor101 says:
    February 24, 2008 at 11:04 pm

    I don’t know about the smaller Indiana towns, but Naptown is now a pretty nice city as far as I can see. It is far more cosmopolitan now than when I left there 26 years ago. I often think of moving back there whenever I visit.

    I grew up in the Butler Tarkington area and the last time i was there, there was a property tax revolt in and around Meridian Street historic area due to a re-evalutation (BTW in my travels since I left Indiana, I don’t think I’ve found any street anywhere that can rival the homes on Meridian Street between 39th and 56th street). In Indianapolis, it seems that proerty taxes are a problem. Home prices are cheap however compared with NJ.

    I entered graduate school with the idea that I would leave Indiana and that’s exactly what I did, but everytime I return, I see that Naptown is a very nice city. I may move back there one day.

    StephenS Says:
    February 24th, 2008 at 9:44 pm
    I love the Indiana talk. My family moved from Indianapolis 25 years ago when I was in grade school. For a long time, I felt out of place in NJ since my family had immigrated from Europe hundreds of years ago and I didn’t go to CCD. However, when I go back to visit my family (especially in Southern Indiana), I am so glad we left. My cousins have kids when they are in high school (some are grandparents already), and my aunts and uncles carve out parts of their 100-acre farmland to give their kids a lot to drop a double-wide. Sometimes I see the prices of real estate and property taxes, and I’m tempted to go back. In Southern Indiana, you can get a 3BR/2BA for $75K and $800/yr in property taxes! However, I don’t think I can handle that lifestyle now that I know what else the world has to offer.

  298. rhymingrealtor says:
    February 24, 2008 at 11:06 pm

    At this moment I have very simple priorities –

    1. Must be intelligent, willing to read through documentation and actually be able to understand it.
    2. Ability to listen to dissent and learn from it.
    3. Basic priorities in line with my own.
    4. Relatively sane.

    Lisoosh,

    Amazing is’nt it? That list seems pretty common sense, and most people I know posess those qualities, seems to me there was a time we expected more from a President, Oh well.
    You did forget articulate, oh how I miss articulate. I myself am not always, but I know it when I hear it. I miss it.

    KL

  299. syncmaster says:
    February 24, 2008 at 11:16 pm

    The subprime crisis is just the tip of the iceberg. Fundamental changes in American life may turn today’s McMansions into tomorrow’s tenements.

    http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200803/subprime

  300. reinvestor101 says:
    February 24, 2008 at 11:25 pm

    There’s more Hoosiers on this board than I would have imagined.

    Friendly rivalry huh? I can tell you’ve never been to a b-ball game between the two schools.

    Indiana University has a number of schools that are nationally renown; among them are the Medical school, the Kelley School, the school of journalism, the music school and etc. It’s a very good school in a state that has a number of good schools

    Outofstater Says:
    February 24th, 2008 at 10:50 pm
    Re: Clot is right – go back on your meds. The whole IU-Purdue thing you’re raving about does not exist. It is a friendly rivalry, nothing more. If you’ve noticed, there are few overlaps in the programs – Purdue has engineering, ag, vet med and pharmacy. IU has liberal arts, law and the med school. Grow up! Can we go back to talking about New Jersey, my beloved home state now?

  301. lisoosh says:
    February 25, 2008 at 12:05 am

    KL -How about people wanting to be led by someone smarter than most, rather than someone they’d like to have a beer with?

    It’s so sad when intellectual becomes an accepted insult.

  302. pretorius says:
    February 25, 2008 at 8:54 am

    Simon Property Group, the country’s largest real estate company by value, is based in Indianpolis.

    The company has grown mostly through acquisitions which they routinely integrated in Indianapolis.

    In 2004, Simon bought a New Jersey-based company, Chelsea Property Group, for $5 billion. Simon allowed the company to remain in New Jersey because Simon knew the New Jersey people would quit when asked to move to Indianapolis. Simon acknowledged that the New Jersey talent couldn’t be replaced.

  303. Jill says:
    February 25, 2008 at 11:20 am

    Outofstater #138: Check your history book, OS. Reagan’s campaign in 1980 was about fear — about being tough on Communists and on Iranian revolutionaries. “Morning in America” didn’t come into play until 1984.

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