Comp Killer!

John St, Ridgewood NJ

Purchased: 6/30/2006
Purchase Price: $795,000
Current Asking Price: $745,000

MLS# 2819679
Listed: 5/13/2008
List Price: $769,000
Reduced to: $745,000


Jerome Ave, Glen Rock NJ

Purchased: 11/7/2005
Purchase Price: $520,000
Current Asking Price: $479,000

MLS# 2723934
Listed: 5/13/2007
List Price: $549,000
Reduced to: $519,000

MLS# 2809536
Listed: 3/9/2008
List Price: $500,000
Reduced to: $479,000


Harrington Street, Hillsdale NJ

Purchased: 3/7/2005
Purchase Price: $635,000
Current Asking Price: $599,000

MLS# 2723934
Listed: 6/11/2007
List Price: $689,000

MLS# 2742492
Listed: 10/19/2007
List Price: $659,000
Reduced to: $639,000

MLS# 2817462
Listed: 4/29/2008
List Price: $638,500

MLS# 2821719
Listed: 5/29/2008
List Price: $599,000


Woodland Cross, Westwood NJ

Purchased: 1/6/2006
Purchase Price: $630,000
Sold for: $570,000

MLS# 2748135
Listed: 12/10/2007
List Price: $659,000
Reduced to: $630,000

MLS# 2808782
Listed: 3/4/2008
List Price: $629,000
Sold: $570,000
Sale Date: 5/27/2008


Haworth Ave, Haworth NJ

Purchased: 6/6/2005
Purchase Price: $789,000
Current Asking Price: $769,000

MLS# 2804108
Listed: 1/30/2008
List Price: $829,000
Reduced to: $769,000

MLS# 2821495
Listed: 5/27/2008
List Price: $769,000

This entry was posted in Comp Killer, Lowball, New Jersey Real Estate. Bookmark the permalink.

430 Responses to Comp Killer!

  1. grim says:

    Big thanks to Rich for providing the Comp Killer info!

  2. grim says:

    From USA Today:

    Housing market just gets uglier

    With home prices falling at their fastest pace in at least 20 years, economists warned Tuesday that further declines are likely yet to come.

    Joel Naroff of Naroff Economic Advisors says he expects prices to continue falling.

    “It’s ugly,” Naroff says. “In major metro areas, we had the big (price) run-ups, and that’s where we’re seeing the record declines. … Everything is working in the direction of more price declines.”

    Other economists agree. “We do think prices will drop a lot more,” says Patrick Newport of Global Insight. “We forecast another 10% drop from current levels and bottoming out in 2009.”

    “Tight credit is keeping sales down,” says Mark Zandi, chief economist of Moody’s “Property values are falling, so (banks are) nervous. Prices have fallen so much, and they expect them to fall even more. They’re skittish.”

    “Buyers don’t feel a whole lot of urgency, and that creates a problem,” says Ken Baris of Jordan Baris Realtors in West Orange, N.J. “We’re seeing many real estate businesses have closed, and many agents have left the business.”

  3. grim says:

    From the WSJ:

    Mortgage-Broker Study
    Finds High Fees Charged
    May 30, 2008

    The home-mortgage industry takes advantage of consumers’ confusion to charge some people much higher fees than others, according to a study prepared for the Department of Housing and Urban Development.

    The study by Susan Woodward, a former chief economist for HUD, also found that loans arranged by brokers typically carried higher fees than those obtained directly from lenders.

    The report, released Thursday, is based on an analysis of 7,560 fixed-rate home-purchase loans completed in May and June 2001 and insured by the Federal Housing Administration, an arm of HUD.

    The study says lenders typically make better offers to borrowers in neighborhoods with higher general levels of education.

    Total fees paid to the lender and broker averaged nearly $3,400 on loans with an average initial principal balance of $105,000, the report said. For brokered loans, the average fees were $4,000, compared with $3,150 for loans made directly by the lender. Those fees are a combination of upfront charges and additional funds brokers and lenders get for selling loans with relatively high interest rates.

    For brokers, these additional payments are known as yield-spread premiums. Brokers often defend yield-spread premiums as a way for borrowers to reduce their upfront fees in exchange for paying a slightly higher interest rate. But the study found that the yield-spread premiums mainly benefited the brokers. For every $100 extra they paid in higher rates, the borrowers on average received only a $7 reduction in upfront fees. Banks also typically kept most of the benefit when borrowers paid above-market interest rates, the study said.

  4. SG says:

    Why the Property Boom Bypassed Germany

    In US, I think one of the reason for bubble was also due to no Capital Gain tax on sale.

  5. SG says:

    Study: Jersey’s greener for its density

    Clustered living, rails shrink carbon output

    New Jersey’s high population density isn’t a curse on the environment, it’s a blessing.

    At least that’s the case if you believe the latest report from the Brookings Institution, a liberal think tank in Washington that often studies development patterns. The report finds state residents generally emit less greenhouse gases than the typical resident in the nation’s 100 largest metropolitan areas.

  6. Clotpoll says:


    “The report finds state residents generally emit less greenhouse gases than the typical resident in the nation’s 100 largest metropolitan areas.”

    Then, can somebody explain to me why everywhere you go, there’s so much bulls*hit in this state?

  7. kettle1 says:


    suburban doesnt work long term. we are seeing the beginning of a shift to a combination of high density urban, with “villages” in the exurb area. that is villages in the european sense.

    many aspects of the modern suburb come from people emulating 17th century land owners. having your own little green plot with the cut grass is an emulation of the wealthy land owners that had workers mowing the fields ( for agricultural purposes).

  8. mikeymike says:

    Can someone provide address, history, and property tax for MLS#2813616? Thanks.

  9. grim says:


    331 Union, taxes are $7,259

    MLS# 2712625
    Listed: 4/1/2007
    List Price: $529,000
    Reduced to: $495,000 (5/30)
    Reduced to: $475,000 (9/5)
    Reduced to $459,900 (11/7)

    MLS# 2813616
    Listed: 4/3/2008
    List Price: $439,000

  10. RaggedJohn says:

    I don’t know how accurate the statistics are from Trulia, but I figured this was interesting — the towns are all well-to-do places with reasonably high volume. The first number is the current (May 21) median listing price, and the second number is the median sales price for the previous three months (February through April).

    Summit $1,397,436 $672,500
    Tenafly $1,180,720 $645,000
    Westfield $1,045,546 $650,000
    Chatham $1,083,855 $650,000
    Montclair $865,269 $510,000
    Ridgewood $858,012 $550,000
    Madison $825,301 $575,000
    Berkeley Heights $750,933 $474,000
    New Providence $699,276 $499,000

  11. grim says:

    Upper Saddle River Comp Killer!

    Cottontail Trail

    Purchased: 4/12/2007
    Purchase Price: $765,000
    Current Asking: $699,000

    MLS# 2819824
    Listed: 5/14/2008
    List Price: $749,000
    Reduced to: $699,000

  12. grim says:

    Waldwick Comp Killer!

    Harrison Ave

    Purchased: 9/21/2005
    Purchase Price: $425,000
    Current Asking: $365,900

    MLS# 2746049
    Listed: 11/16/2007
    List Price: $459,000
    Reduced to: $429,000 (2/21)
    Reduced to: $365,900 (5/29)

  13. kettle1 says:


    can you please try to be Fair and balanced TM and show some homes that have sold for more then asking????

    (Tounge firmly in cheek)

  14. thatBIGwindow says:

    Ridgewood, Glen Rock and Hillsdale. All prestigious blue ribbon minutes from NYC wall street neighborhoods.

  15. kettle1 says:

    and grim,

    since i started dabbling in the world of blogs i have come to appreciate how much work this site must really take!

  16. HEHEHE says:

    You need to flip through his daily article to get to this nugget of gold and it is without a doubt precisely what is currently going on:

    “It does disgust me how taxpayers through the Fed and Treasury are giving banks money with the “wink wink” purpose of making loans to lift the economy and resolve the credit crunch. But, I think they’re just trading it for their own accounts. You’ll know this when you inspect their next earnings reports and focus on “trading” profits. It should upset you. It upsets me. But that’s the market we have and acceptance is required. ”

    Right now trading is about the only money being made on Wall Street – IPO’s, M&A, Securitization all dead or activity near dead. If the Fed wasn’t lending them money to trade with every month the headcount getting chopped would double, maybe even triple and to be honest Bergabe’s little game is likely not going to be enough to avoid that from happening in the long run.

  17. NJGator says:

    My ‘prestigious northern NJ train town’ is only 12 miles from NYC. I have been sitting on the train this morning for over an hour already, and I am still not in NY.

    Remind me why exactly do I pay a premium to live here?

  18. HEHEHE says:

    “Remind me why exactly do I pay a premium to live here?”

    Because it’s where all the young, rich and intelligent people choose to live.

  19. Frank says:

    Take the bus instead, there’s no traffic today.

  20. thatBIGwindow says:

    I would much rather live among the elderly, fixed income and forgetful crowd…

  21. Clotpoll says:

    HE (20)-

    It’s a vast sea of cabbage.

  22. Stan says:

    Why is losing a home to foreclosure considered a horrible event by the people I talk to and by the media, but losing a home because the landlord raises the rent too high is considered tough luck?

  23. thatBIGwindow says:

    #24, what about the people who have to move because their property taxes more than doubled in the last 6 years?

  24. PGC says:

    From Yesterday.

    “Solar powered cars have a long, long, long way to go before evolving into anything remotely practical”

    Solar homes, on the other hand – no problem.

    Heres a link for you I would love one of those Rav4EV. But the price tag was/is ugly.

  25. JBJB says:


    You should not complain about taxes because our benevolent state and local officals are putting it to good use to support the ever expanding welfare state of NJ. Aren’t the glorious results evident. At least that’s what many would have you believe.

    It is funny that people here whine about housing prices, but the real threat to your finacial security in NJ is taxation by an out of control state governemnt. Yet the sheeple go back to elect the same mongrols. It’s quite a parody when you take a step back and look it at.

  26. John says:

    CIT 10.93, +0.23, +2.2%) said it disagrees with the move by Moody’s Investors Service to downgrade its senior unsecured rating to Baa1 from A3. “We disagree with the ratings actions that Moody’s has taken, particularly in light of the significant progress we have made to strengthen our balance sheet, improve liquidity and position CIT for long-term success and profitability. We have successfully executed on our current strategic funding initiatives, which have included capital raising, asset sales, financings and growth at CIT Bank,” the company said.

  27. John says:

    BTW those are whimpy comp killers, 200K off 2006 price is pretty much the min I want to see for a comp killer.

  28. PGC says:

    My fear for Solar is that big industry’s like oil and utilities companies will kill it as it will cut profits and customer base.

    The arguments on why exactly GM canned (sic) the EV1 car still go on. wonder if LPG conversion kits for cars will appear in the US and if adopted, would it have an impact into Natural Gas prices.

  29. HEHEHE says:

    It’s too bad CIT isn’t a “protected” company like MBIA or Ambac

  30. Stu says:

    Anyone notice how 30 year fixed interest rates have been climbing? According to BankRate, we are now at 6.02% If I recall correctly, we were around 5.5 less than 6 months agos and have been in a range of 5.75 to 5.85 for a few months now.

    Just another headwind to drive prices lower.

  31. RentinginNJ says:

    It is funny that people here whine about housing prices, but the real threat to your finacial security in NJ is taxation by an out of control state governemnt.

    It’s true. I can control the price I pay for the house and control the terms of my mortgage depending on my risk tolerance. Taxes, however, are out of my control. I pay what they tell me to pay. It’s like having an exploding adjustable rate mortgage whether you want it or not.

  32. Clotpoll says:

    Rent (33)-

    It’s the equivalent of a 1/1 ARM that slowly squeezes the life out of you.

    And you can’t refi out of it.

  33. Stu says:

    Property tax issues are a direct result of out of control spending at both the local and state level. If the current pace of increases continue then the levy will break as people will exit the state leaving the remaining residents to bear their tax burden. I expect the levies to break within the the next 10 years and will sit back and enjoy the show as all of those public sector workers find out that their pensions will not be paid. IMO, it is the only way out of the mess caused by the power of our state’s public sector unions. I will laugh as the unions get busted as they will have essentially shot themselves due to their excessive greed.

    Good times ;)

  34. gary says:

    “Buyers don’t feel a whole lot of urgency, and that creates a problem,” says Ken Baris of Jordan Baris Realtors in West Orange, N.J.”

    Creates what f*cking problem, dick? It’s a problem for you because you can’t find anyone left to fleece, dick.

  35. Stu says:

    Incomes and spending both slow in April
    Friday May 30, 8:42 am ET
    By Martin Crutsinger, AP Economics Writer
    Personal spending and incomes both slow in April, underscoring economic weakness

    WASHINGTON (AP) — Consumer spending barely budged in April and growth in personal income slowed sharply, even though the government started sending out billions of dollars in economic stimulus payments.

    The Commerce Department reported Friday that consumer spending edged up a small 0.2 percent in April, just half the 0.4 percent rise in March. Excluding inflation, the performance was even weaker, showing no gain in spending after excluding price changes.

    Incomes rose by just 0.2 percent in April, just half of the March increase. That performance would have been even weaker without the boost it got as the government began mailing out the first of $106.7 billion in economic stimulus payments.

    Consumer spending, which accounts for two-thirds of total economic activity, is being closely watched at present for signs that the economy could be slipping into a recession.

    The government reported Thursday that the overall economy, as measured by the gross domestic product, grew at an annual rate of 0.9 percent, slightly better than the 0.6 percent GDP growth originally estimated. However, growth at that level remained very anemic and some analysts are worried that the GDP could slip into negative territory in the current April-June quarter.

    The Bush administration is hoping that a full-blown recession can be averted with the economic stimulus payments now being mailed out. The Commerce report said that those payments, which didn’t start until the end of April, totaled $7.8 billion at an annual rate for that month.

  36. Sean says:

    re: #33 RentinginNJ

    Very true, the politicians are too blame, I would add the politicans at the local government level are just as bad as the ones in Trenton.Just look at latest news from Hoboken their 4th Quarter tax bill is about to go up 50%.

    I can see it now — Honey the vacation is cancelled we have to pay the tax man before he puts a lien on the condo!

  37. DINJ says:

    The U.S.A.: The Third World’s First Superpower
    I am not sure if I agree with this about the whole country but it sure paints a picture about the Great Garden State.
    Especially #3

  38. grim says:

    Amen, Gary.

  39. x-underwriter says:

    JBJB Says:
    It is funny that people here whine about housing prices, but the real threat to your finacial security in NJ is taxation by an out of control state governemnt.

    I totally agree. A decent 4 bedroom home in NJ will run $10,000/yr or more. That’s not expected to decline anytime soon. Everywhere else, it’s around $4,000. If that extra $500/mo went to a mortgage payment, it will give you an additional $80,000 in purchasing power in another state with the same payment.
    I’m really starting to give up on the idea of owning a home in NJ. It’s just not worth the financial burden. All indications tell me that this situation will only get worse.

  40. DoughBoy says:

    With the availability of some newer, lower cost “green” alternatives like home wind-turbines, it is becoming more possible to drop home utility costs.

  41. SG says:

    I am following one exurb town (Washington) with high taxes. See MLS 2444779, its listed asking $329K but Property Taxes are $12K.

    In Bergen county etc… you see $12K taxes on $600K house, not on $300K house. I am guessing local towns have not assessed properties in long time, and newer properties are being forced to pay higher.

  42. gary says:


    When is the GTG?

  43. RentinginNJ says:

    “Buyers don’t feel a whole lot of urgency, and that creates a problem,” says Ken Baris of Jordan Baris Realtors in West Orange, N.J.”

    Then it’s your job to instill a sense of urgency among sellers.
    It’s a new paradigm; one where buyers are in the driver’s seat and sellers need to do what it takes if they want to sell. The days of selling homes based on a buyer’s fear of being priced out and/or greed of buyers is over.

  44. PGC says:

    #43 SG

    The bigger disconnect is that you see 12K taxes on a $600K house that is assessed at $300K.

  45. PGC says:

    #44 Gary

    I thought it was June 21 in Hoboken. I might be along at some point as I am getting together with a few friends for Steak and Big Beers at Arthur’s.

  46. 3b says:

    #16 tbw: What is the matter, Westwood is not prestigious enough for you. Speaking of Westwood, that comp killer that sold for 570k down from 630, is one ugly house. They are lucky they got that for it.

    Also I was in Westwood last night, the big Chevy dealer on KKR is gone. They had been there for years. Sign of the times.

    Meanwhile back in prestigious River Edge, believe it or nto another developer wants to build 20 condos on KKR, in a vacant parcel across the street form the apartments (Resovior and KKR).

    It was nice to see the Mayor and council actually acknowledge that we have tons of condos in towen that are not selling, and they would be doubtful that the developer would be able to get the financing.

    It is finally sinking in, that the housing bust is hitting prestigious River Edge too,although some of the sold prices are still ridiculously high.

    For instance a renovated Reis Colonial (the old pigeons ladies house) on the corner of KKR and Clarendon Court, across from Sanducci’s just closed for 460k.

    Part of the problem too has been the belief of some newer residents that soemhow the town is prestigious, it is nice, it has always been nice, but it is not and never will be prestigious.

    The biggest problem now is the taxes, and of course elected officials wnat rateables, but we never had much in the way of rateables except for houses. The problem is the silly residents of the town went on a spending spree with all the school construction/renovation over the last few years.

    And now we have the 3rd highest property taxes in Bergen County. Good job residents.

  47. PGC says:

    My entry to the “Find the ugliest sofa in a Listing” competition.

    Turquoise on Pic 7

  48. Stu says:


    You win!

  49. Pat says:

    PGC, that’s a function of putting furniture from your modern condo into your Tudor flip. If you can’t afford to furnish a house in a corresponding furniture style, you can’t afford the house. They need to clear out all that modern leather.

    That furniture would look good in a glass solarium, filled with plants, and over-looking the pool of an ultramodern ranch.

  50. Pat says:

    Well, maybe not. I went back and looked again. It’s pretty bad.

  51. thatBIGwindow says:

    3b: It is amazing what people will do in the name of schools…

  52. Hard Place says:

    I was recently doing some car shopping as I may swap the 3 series for something more family friendly like a Odyssey/Sienna or Outlook/Acadia. Used car loan rates are getting a bit rich. I financed my 3 series for 3.9% for 5 years. I’ve seen rates posted for a 5 yr used car loan from 6.25% to 7.9%. 5 yr Treasuries are similarly priced in that time span with a yield of roughly 3.0%. Times have sure changed.

  53. John says:

    Why is it that people think 10K is a lot of taxes? Also the correlation between your home price and taxes is stupid to begin with. A couple with two kids in the school district in a 5, 4, 3 or 2 bedroom houses costs the town the same amount. Some places like NYC do it mainly on income and that is also silly. Does a single guy making 200K used twice the services of a single guy making 100k?

    Bottom line the town needs to break even, three bedroom 300K splits using 20K a year worth of town services a year can’t be taxes at 3K a year.

    Plus 10K is not a lot of money anymore. For those not in AMT after taxes it is only 7K out of pocket. So for 7K a year you get parks, roads, police, fire, emt and schools. Sounds like a deal to me, quit your belly aching and go have your five dollar cup of latte at starbucks.

  54. 3b says:

    #54 tbw: Yes it is. And ironically IMO, the more money they have spent, the mroe the schools have declined. Its not just the bricks and mortar folks.

  55. John says:

    Hey hard place, times really have changed when people need a loan to buy a used car.

  56. 3b says:

    #56 john: when 70% of the residents in Bergen County make 100k or under a year, 10k in property taxes is a lot of cash.

    Oh, personally I prefer Dunkin Dounts.

  57. Rich In NNJ says:


    Sorry about the confusion! The email was from “Homebuyer” and I assumed it was from you!
    I’m a doofus.


    I sent you a reply.


  58. Al says:

    Plus 10K is not a lot of money anymore. For those not in AMT after taxes it is only 7K out of pocket. So for 7K a year you get parks, roads, police, fire, emt and schools.

    If my real estate taxes are paying for all of these, what does my Federal and State taxes are paying for??? – Army and goverment??? Man it is time for revolt.
    Seriously John – sometimes your posts are full of it.

  59. Hard Place says:


    Actually at 3.9% money 5 yrs ago that was a layup decision. Why pay cash when I was being charged 3.9%. Now if I get charged on the high end with 7.9%, I may consider paying cash considering the financing is much more expensive. Probably won’t buy until near the end of year. Just like houses inventory tends to build near the end of year.

  60. Stu says:

    Futures are up due to today’s version of yellow journalism.

    I’ll break it down for you all and I’ll do it free of charge:

    Stock futures rise after personal spending data
    Friday May 30, 9:06 am ET
    By Madlen Read, AP Business Writer

    Stocks head for higher open after rise in personal spending, mild inflation reading

    NEW YORK (AP) — Wall Street headed for a higher opening Friday after government data indicated that Americans are still spending, albeit at a slow pace.

    ** Excluding inflation, the performance was even weaker, showing no gain in spending after excluding price changes. **

    The Commerce Department said personal spending rose by 0.2 percent last month, and personal income rose by 0.2 percent. The department also said inflation at the personal spending level, after stripping out food and energy costs, ticked up in April by a tame 0.1 percent.

    ** Strip out food an energy costs? I suppose this is true if we forgo eating and heating/cooling and getting to work!!! **

    All three readings were in line with the market’s expectations, and alleviated some concerns about high commodities costs causing a sharp pullback in spending, or lifting prices for other goods.

    ** Commodity costs aren’t the issue here. It’s the increase in energy costs that are necessary to produce and deliver the commodities that is causing the increase. But we conveniently stripped it out. **

    Meanwhile, investors got some good news late Thursday when Dell, the world’s second-largest seller of personal computers, issued a profit report that was stronger than analysts expected due to growth in Asia and robust sales of notebook computers.

    ** Almost every earnings report is meeting expectations due to dramatically lowered earnings and revenue estimates. Most earnings have come from the prosperity boom in emerging markets. This really only helps the upper classes here as only the shareholders really benefit. For example, it shouldn’t be long before Dell pretty much moves all aspects of the company to Asia as that is where the sales, manufacturing and customer service are located. Why bother paying ANY American wages if American’s aren’t buying the goods the company is selling. Earlier this year, I debated with ChiFi the point that most earnings are coming from foreign sales. Keep your eyes open on every new earnings report. American’s are not buying anything new except for energy and food. **

    Wall Street’s concerns about the economy and inflation are far from erased, however; Americans still face rising costs for necessities such as groceries and gasoline, and crude oil remains near record highs.

    ** Ah, the sad truth is finally revealed. Do you think that the people who refused to read the details of their mortgage covenants will read to the end of such an article? Look at the headline and then look at the last paragraph (the conclusion). If I was a 5th grade English teacher, I would have this writer checked for a learning disability **

  61. thatBIGwindow says:

    Wood-Ridge is a very nice Bergen County town with low taxes. I feel like I am back in River Edge when I walk around.

  62. BklynHawk says:

    #44 Gary/GTG –
    I vote 6/13!

  63. Stu says:

    I vote we all play hooky and just meet at Fatburger in Jersey City for Lunch ;)

  64. Joeycasz says:

    Hope to buy in Kenilworth and the taxes are pretty low there too.

  65. grim says:

    Last I remember it was going to be 6/13 (Friday the 13th) or 6/14? No?

  66. Rich In NNJ says:

    That’s what I remember too

  67. lostinny says:

    Gary, PGC, BklynHawk-
    I thought the GTG was 6/13 as well.

  68. grim says:


    Hudson County just called, they are conducting a test of the Internet and they would like everyone to turn off their cable, DSL, or FIOS routers/modems for a few minutes this afternoon, or early evening.

    Thank You,
    The Management

  69. njpatient says:

    26 PGC

    “Solar homes, on the other hand – no problem.
    Heres a link for you

    Here’s another (in Maine, no less!):

  70. Sean says:

    Ah, prestigious NJ.. love it or leave it.

    Here is New Jersey State-Local Tax Burden Compared to U.S. Average from 1970-2007

    We have consistently ranked as “prestigious”

    Here are the stats, average state/local taxes 11.0% of income.

  71. njpatient says:

    26 PGC

    “Solar homes, on the other hand – no problem.”

    Here’s another (in Maine, no less!):

  72. njpatient says:

    30 pgc
    “My fear for Solar is that big industry’s like oil and utilities companies will kill it as it will cut profits and customer base. ”

    I have the same fear. The Unfree Market has a bias toward energy sources that can be put in a box and doled out in dribs and drabs to those who pay enough.

    Providing people with an energy source that they control, and that can provide them energy basically for free (after one-time start-up costs and maintenance going forward) is no way to make a profit.

    It’s like Chris Rock says, regarding why we’ll never cure certain diseases: “Ain’t no money in the CURE!!”

  73. Hard Place says:

    Housing market definitely not getting any better. I’d expect foreclosures to surge through the next few months as ARMs that adjust as they were underwritten in the heavier selling season. These were often done 1, 2, or 3 years out. The forward date on the reset is from the date of loan closing. Anyone know of what mix of ARMS were done w/ 1, 2, 3, 5 or 7 year resets?

    New Overdue Home Loans Swamp Effort to Fix Defaults (Update1)

  74. lostinny says:

    For some reason I was able to vote again today.

  75. Rich In NNJ says:

    I too was able to vote as well.


  76. gary says:

    I wasn’t sure if the GTG was the 13th or the 14th and the location??

  77. JBJB says:

    John [56]

    I love you man, but this post is whacked. I think most people understand that you must pay taxes to support your community organizations and services, but the level of taxation in NJ is completely out of control, and there is little sign of it leveling out and zero sign of it decreasing. This is my single biggest fear as a potential buyer – not asking price, not credit access, not any other reason. Once you become a home/land owner in NJ, you become a conduit for financing a criminal organization (NJ politico). This state is in such a financial mess, where do you think they will go for the money to keep the welfare state going? It’s like the old question – why rob banks? Cause that’s where the money is.

    My brother lives in one of the nicest Boston suburbs, much nicer than just about any Bergen Co town, the schools are much better, he pays 6k RE taxes on a 800,000 dollar property.

    It’s the waste, mismanagement, and fraud needed to finance the welfare state. There is no reason iyt has to like this here.

  78. grim says:

    From the Star Ledger:

    Pharmacopeia to cut 15 percent of work force

    The Princeton-based biopharmaceutical company Pharmacopeia said it plans to would slash its work force by 15 percent as part of a strategic plan to focus on clinical and later-stage programs.

    The work force reduction will include jobs lost through attrition and the termination of positions. Along with other cost-cutting measures, Pharmacopeia said it expected to reduce its annual operating expenditures by $10 million in 2009.

  79. Fiddy Cents on the Dollar says:

    No vote…didn’t accept my vote today. It still has my original vote date. I guess I’m still on the same IP address.

    Hudson county rules have been suspended.

  80. Rich In NNJ says:

    From MarketWatch

    SUBPRIME TODAY (and Alt-A and HELOC…)

    The following stories at the link above
    Fed might accept foreign collateral: Kohn
    HSBC chairman says inflationary pressure is clear risk
    CIT disagrees with downgrade
    Discover may take up to $31 mln in pretax charges
    Fed’s fireman on Wall Street feels some heat
    Discount-Window Lending Mixed

  81. njpatient says:

    55 Hard Place

    We’ve been in the Odyssey for three years now (’05 version) and love it to death.
    Great vehicle – I won’t be surprised if it (or its successor) remains the family vehicle until the Littlest Patient leaves for college.
    Roomy, comfy, great engine (powerful V-6 which still gets pretty good mileage because it switches to three cylinders whenever possible).
    We’re VERY happy with it.
    (I’ll even give a plug for Joyce Honda, where we got that and our Civic – good folks, not the usual high level of assholery you expect at a car dealership – kinda like the car-dealer version of Clot’s shop, I imagine)

  82. 3b says:

    #64 tbw: yeah, but it is not prestigious.

  83. chicagofinance says:

    grim Says:
    May 30th, 2008 at 9:54 am
    Last I remember it was going to be 6/13 (Friday the 13th) or 6/14? No?

    6/13 is the big chicago 4-0…

  84. chicagofinance says:

    Q: Isn’t comp-killer a 80’s song from the Talking Heads? Someone help me here…

  85. lostinny says:

    87 Chicago
    Psycho Killer

  86. Will V. says:

    John, you must be kidding.. We are known for being on the top 10 list of high taxes.

  87. x-underwriter says:

    John Says:
    Plus 10K is not a lot of money anymore.

    Sorry, I’d rather pocket the extra $6,000/year and not live in your dumpy neighborhood

  88. Will V. says:

    here’s the info to support my previous post

  89. Rich In NNJ says:

    From MarketWatch

    Inflation wipes out income gains in Aprila>
    Spending is flat after adjusting for 0.2% increase in prices

    Inflation erased all the gains in disposable personal income in April, while U.S. consumer spending was flat after adjusting for higher prices, the Commerce Department estimated Friday.

    Nominal personal incomes, nominal consumer spending and consumer prices all increased 0.2% in April, the government said.

    The report suggests the economy weakened further in the second quarter of the year even as the first tax-rebate checks began arriving.

    More details at the link above

  90. RentinginNJ says:

    Providing people with an energy source that they control, and that can provide them energy basically for free (after one-time start-up costs and maintenance going forward) is no way to make a profit.

    Except that the start-up costs for solar are so astronomical that on a levelized basis, the cost per kWh generated is multiples higher than conventional energy.

    Regulated utilities earn money by making investments and deploying capital and earning a return on those investments through rates (i.e. the rate base). To the extent that solar is expensive, it could be a large investment added to a utilities rate base. So, I don’t agree there is an inherent conflict between utilities and solar.

  91. Rich In NNJ says:



    You’re old!

  92. RentinginNJ says:

    Q: Isn’t comp-killer a 80’s song from the Talking Heads? Someone help me here…

    Are you thinking of “Cop killer” by Body Count starring Iced-T

  93. Against The Grain says:

    Question for all those who think 10k a year in property taxes in a basic home in a middle class neighborhood is outrageous:

    What amount of property taxes do you think would be fair?

  94. njpatient says:

    63 Stu

    Great post

  95. grim says:

    From the AP:

    Gannett lays off 55 in New Jersey

    Gannett Co. Inc. laid off 55 employees Thursday from four of its six New Jersey newspapers because of adverse business conditions.

    The layoffs were from all departments at the Asbury Park Press, Home News Tribune in East Brunswick, Courier News in Bridgewater and Daily Record in Parsippany.

    “Employees impacted by this action will have the opportunity to interview for the current open positions at each of the newspapers,” Thomas M. Donovan, president and publisher of the Asbury Park Press and vice president of Gannett’s East Newspaper Group, wrote in a statement to employees. “It is my hope that the total number of impacted employees will be reduced.”

    Those who do not obtain other jobs within the company will receive “severance and benefits in accordance with their years of service,” he said.

    The company earlier this month offered buyouts to 166 workers over age 55 with at least 15 years of service at those papers plus the Courier-Post of Cherry Hill and Daily Journal of Vineland. Eighty-three employees accepted the buyouts. The Courier-Post and Daily Journal were not affected by Thursday’s layoffs.

  96. Stu says:

    none ;)

  97. John says:

    Face it guys, 10K in 2008 is cheap taxes. I pay a little over 8K in taxes and people are like so jealus. Ten years ago that would have been a lot. Plus if you bought a house in the 2004-2007 period you mortgage was up around 2K a month from the guy next door who bought in 1998, the extra 300 a month propery taxes ain’t killing you.

    Fact of matter with higher inflation, higher heating costs, medical expenses and pension and salary gurantees to your local teachers and policemen and no more cheap auction rate bond rates you will be begging for 10K taxes by 2010.

  98. Pat says:

    I went on over to cnbc to check my fantasy portfolio and this was front:

    Home Sellers Are Told: Don’t Even Bother Trying

  99. Pat says:

    Between that headline, and the whole Duck incident, I’m starting to get the shakes.

  100. Al says:

    Fact of matter with higher inflation, higher heating costs, medical expenses and pension and salary gurantees to your local teachers and policemen and no more cheap auction rate bond rates you will be begging for 10K taxes by 2010.

    I will not be begging, John – you will be.

    I will the as far away from NJ as I can…

  101. lurkerA says:

    how is nearly double the US average for property tax “cheap taxes”? can someone explain that to me please? cheap is all relative and in the US, $10k/year is not cheap.

  102. x-underwriter says:

    John Says:
    Face it guys, 10K in 2008 is cheap taxes.

    If you were to move to Montclair, or one of the other NY towns, you’d be paying $20,000 or more for a house that someone in your purported income bracket lives in. $10,000 is the starting point and it goes up from there. The guy sitting next to me just said he owns a 1,400 sq ft house in Red Bank and pays $10,000/yr. You live in Logn Island, right? Taxes there are high but not close to NJ

  103. kettle1 says:

    john 100

    no, if taxes continue to skyrocket ( which i am sure they will) then a significant number of people including ones on this board would move out of state before just bending over.

    taxes are rapidly approached/have passed the point where it simplt makes sense financially to leave the state. have you noticed that their is a growing xodus of the prime earners leaving the state? many people who are still here are here becuase of family, but even with that connection the breaking point is radiply approaching.

    96 grain,

    there is no one “fair” number. fair taxes are when you recieve a representative level of service relative to the taxes you pay. If you are in a 3/2 CHC on 1/4 acre and paying 10K in taxes then you should have lawn service provided by the town and gold plated sidewalks.

    school adminsistrators and police chiefs with 500K pensions is certainly not “fair”.

    The entire NJ system is so corrupt that it cannot be fixed until it collapse on itself first so that you can start over.

  104. Frank says:

    Property taxes in NJ should be at least 5% of property value annually. It would prevent people that can not afford to own a home from owning one.

  105. Frank says:

    Sounds like you have a problem with NJ taxes, maybe it’s time to move to NC.
    School administrators and police chiefs with 500K pensions is certainly “fair”, they deserve every penny of it.

  106. Rich In NNJ says:

    From Bloomberg

    U.S. Economy: Consumer Spending Gains Slowed in April

    U.S. personal spending slowed in April after record fuel costs, a slump in home values and a deteriorating job market eroded consumer confidence.

  107. gl says:

    Hmmm, I thought “Comp Killer” was an Ice-T song from the 90’s…

  108. syncmaster says:

    Al #103,

    I will the as far away from NJ as I can…

    I’ve been hearing that from people for years. I’ve been saying it for years myself…

    And yet, here we (still) are. WTF?

  109. 3b says:

    #106 kettle:Agreed. And the well paying jobs will and are leaving as well.

    Companies,are not going to pay higher and higher salaries, just nbecasue NJ property taxes continue to sky rocket.
    it is ironic that some of the loudest complaitns I hear aabout taxes are from many of the very same people who always vote yes for referendums for school construction and renovations projects, and then cannot understand why taxes are so high.

  110. Against The Grain says:


    So then, to use your example, would 10k in taxes be “fair” (in receipt of a commensurate level of services) if your hypothetical homeowner had two children in public school?

  111. JBJB says:


    What increased level of service are we getting in NJ that people in other similar states are not that would justify the much, much higher real estate taxes? It’s not about the amount per say, it whether or not the amount you pay is proportional to the level of services you are getting. I would argue that we pay more in taxes for a lower quality of service in NJ compared to most places. The difference is we have a corrupt political system which is siphoning off the difference to their speacial interest gorups. In the NJ case the money flow is taxpayer – (mostly) democrat politician – public employee unions/and associated groups.

    The “get used to” mentalilty just makes it worse. This allows these scumbag politicians all the cover they need to keep the racket going.

  112. grim says:

    From MarketWatch:

    Fed’s Rosengren: Small banks at risk if housing stays weak

    Rosengren: Delinquencies up despite benign environment

    Rosengren: Financial stress will rise if job rate ticks up

    Rosengren: Home equity loans complicating housing mess

    Rosengren: Still no wholesale aid to borrowers from lenders

    Rosengren: Housing start drop largest in 50 years

    Rosengren: Lack of ability to get jumbo loans key problem

  113. CB in SJ says:

    In tax burden as % of income, NJ ranks 10th out of 50 states. In 2000, we ranked 24th so we moved up 14 spots in only 8 years. NJ is on the move Woo Hoo!

    The top five states where the tax burden as a percent of income is the highest are: Vermont (14.1%), Maine (14.0%), New York (13.8%), Rhode Island (12.7%), and Ohio (12.4%). The United States average is 11.06%. New Jersey is 11.60%

  114. grim says:

    Bridgewater Comp Killer!

    Carteret Rd

    Purchased: 7/11/2005
    Purchase Price: $492,000

    MLS# 2516793
    Newly finished basement, paint, other upgrades
    Listed: 5/10/2008
    List Price: $495,000
    Current Asking: $485,000

    Current asking is under the 2005 purchase price, seller stands to lose approximately $35k if it sells at asking.

  115. grim says:

    Of course, the intangible benefits of homeownership make that loss so much less painful to swallow.

  116. JBJB says:


    This is referring to income tax only correct? This does not include real estate taxes.

    Another rant before I go. Like many of said, the bad part of RE taxes is that the velocity of increase is likely to ratchet up significanly in the future in NJ due to the financial mess the state is in. So you can wait it out a buy a house for 100-200K cheaper but in the end you will be no better off.

  117. Rich In NNJ says:

    From Bloomberg

    New Overdue Home Loans Swamp Effort to Fix Defaults

    Newly delinquent mortgage borrowers outnumbered people who caught up on their overdue payments by two to one last month, a sign that nationwide efforts to help homeowners avoid default may be failing.

    In April, 73,880 homeowners with privately insured mortgages fell more than 60 days late on payments, compared with 39,584 who got back on track, a report today from the Washington-based Mortgage Insurance Companies of America said. Mortgage insurers pay lenders when homeowners default and foreclosures fail to cover costs.

    Foreclosure filings surged 65 percent and bank seizures more than doubled in April compared with a year earlier as rates on adjustable mortgages increased, according to RealtyTrac Inc. Lawmakers and Federal Reserve officials are trying to ease the worst U.S. housing slump since the Great Depression through tax rebates, expanded federal mortgage insurance and other programs.

    The mortgage crisis “is bad and it’s getting worse,” Braunstein said, repeating the central bank’s plea for lenders to consider forgiving portions of mortgages. Lenders typically require borrowers to buy insurance when their down payment is less than 20 percent.

    The value of new mortgages privately insured by borrowers rose 12 percent from April 2007 to $19.4 billion last month, according to the mortgage insurance group, even as the number of policies issued fell 27 percent to 108,322. The top three mortgage insurers have lost more than four-fifths of their market value in the past year as the housing recession deepened.

    “Modifications are not occurring nearly at the numbers necessary to stem the foreclosure crisis,” Allen Fishbein, housing director for the Consumer Federation of America in Washington, said in a May 19 interview. “People are still going into foreclosure when, with a writedown on existing principal, they could still stay in their homes.”

    In April, 22 percent of the homes in the foreclosure process had been taken over by lending banks; a year earlier, that figure was 15 percent, according to Irvine, California-based data provider RealtyTrac.

    Part of the problem is that so many of the loans were securitized, making it difficult to determine who has the legal authority to modify them, or even who owns them, Fishbein said.

    About 90 percent of subprime loans have been bundled into securities, according to Inside Mortgage Finance, a Bethesda, Maryland-based industry newsletter. Borrowers with subprime mortgages, which were available to those with poor credit histories, are behind in their payments at more than five times the rate of prime mortgage borrowers, according to the Washington-based Mortgage Bankers Association.

    The three largest mortgage insurers, Milwaukee-based MGIC Investment Corp., Walnut Creek, California-based PMI Group Inc. and Philadelphia-based Radian Group Inc. lost money in some or all of the past three quarters as they paid more claims and boosted reserves for future losses.

    Standard & Poor’s last month cut the claims-paying ratings on PMI’s mortgage insurance units in the U.S. and Europe to A+ from AA. S&P also downgraded MGIC and Radian, citing the prospect of underwriting losses for all three until 2010.

  118. Stu says:

    According to Seans link, our overall state/property tax burden when combined with our Federal burden puts us at #3!!!

  119. x-underwriter says:

    grim Says:
    May 30th, 2008 at 1:13 pm
    Bridgewater Comp Killer!

    Those people are still on heroin.
    It’s a tiny starter ranch with a garage built on…not worth more than $275 just 5 years ago

  120. 3b says:

    #116 JBJB: True but at least you will not have inflated prices, and inflated taxes.

    Again at least for my town, much of the blame lies with the residents who voted time and time again for massive school spending on construction and renoovation.

    We have spent in the neighborhood of 30 million dollars in school construction over the last 6 years or so, for a town with a gramamr school population of about 1100 kids split between what is now 3 elementary schools. (We built another elementary school)

    All you have to do is tell those Moms that music will have to be taught from a cart and not a seperate classroom,and bang school construction spending is approved

    Now on the regional side (middle school and high school) we have spent about another 26+ million, this is for a combined middle/high school population og about 1600 kids.,

    In addition the other town that shares the regional middle/high school spent around another 8 million dollars renovation/construction for their sole elementary school.

    So we have 2 towns with a combined total population of under 20K people, with a combined student population of k to 12 of about 3300 kids, and in the lst 7 years we have spent approximatley from 62+ million dollars on school renovations/construction, in 2 towns that have almost no rateabales away from residential housing.

    That in my mind is insane, and that is the fault of the residents.

  121. Rich In NNJ says:

    From MarketWatch

    Smaller banks at risk if home woes persist: Boston Fed chief

    To date, the financial market turmoil has impacted mostly large international banks, but smaller financial institutions may yet get dragged into the tumult, said Eric Rosengren, the president of the Boston Fed on Friday. A weak housing market has turned into one with “major declines” and have begun to impact some financial institutions that had taken outsized positions in construction loans or focused on other types of consumer debt, he said. Research into the collapse of housing prices in New England in the 1990s shows that foreclosure issues can last much longer than most economists assume, Rosengren said. Riskier loans in general have made delinquencies in this downturn about the same as the 1990s even though economic conditions are not as bad this year, he said. Should the economy worsen, the housing problem could become much more severe, he said.

  122. morpheus says:

    Fellow posters;
    Been reading this blog for many months. I thought I saw that there was a 20-plus percent increase inventory in Morris County New Jersey and prices had fallen approx 3% for the last quarter and prices had fallen approximately 7-8% since last year.

    My real estate agent has recently told me that, according to recent article, prices are now rising in Morris County and we are no longer at the bottom. I explained to her/him the the illustrous lawrence yun has called at least a 20% correction to which she/he responded “you can’t apply national stats to Morris County”.

    Querry: is the agent correct? This seems to be going against the grain of everything I have read in this blog. I am considering getting another agent if this his/her assertion is a falsehood.

    I humbly await your collective responses.

  123. John says:

    Lets say I am a fat cat school administrator who makes 300K a year cause taxes in my town are 15K per house. Lets say I have two choices vote to lower taxes and take a 200K paycut or let taxes stay the same and people sell their houses at a firesale and the next set of people who can afford the taxes due to the low mortgage. Which is better for me? Plus I plan on moving to low cost Florida anyhow when I retire and I may or may not even leave in the school district.

    My kids have tour buses for field trips to all types of fancy places, have beautiful fields to play on, have fantastic public supported summer program and a amazing library to go to. Their are special ed teachers, reading teachers, music programs, heck they teach mandairan in the third grade. If I had no kids I would say my taxes are outrageous, but quite frankly to me it is a bargain. Plus some rich towns think 90K elementary teachers are working for peanuts next to their salaries.

    Heck when I went to HS we had a go cart club, tennis courts, swimming pool, music programs, plays and all kinds of cool stuff in my HS and back then everyone complained about taxes but no one does anything about it. The old folks just leave the island or suck it up, the young folks live at home and don’t pay RE taxes anyhow and the people with kids and teachers always vote for the sky high budget.

    There was a nice article in the WSJ this week about Freeloaders. Anyone with kids in the schools with under 10K in taxes is not pulling their weight anyhow and is freeloading.

  124. gary says:


    The agent is full of sh*t. Ask him or her for the data. Whenever they spew a bucnch of bullsh*t, just ask for the data. They can’t produce it… because it doesn’t exist. It exists here, on this site, but they would deny it untill the end of time. Tell the agent Gary said good luck on their new bartending job.

  125. Rich In NNJ says:

    Saddle River
    2510944 Sold
    SLD 13 DATER LN $880,000 7/22/2005

    2739586 Withdrawn
    ACT 13 DATER LN $1,370,000 9/28/2007
    PCH 13 DATER LN $1,270,000 1/30/2008
    EXT 13 DATER LN $1,270,000 3/27/2008
    W-U 13 DATER LN $1,270,000 4/22/2008
    2816542 Withdrawn
    ACT 13 DATER LN $1,270,000 4/23/2008
    W-U 13 DATER LN $1,270,000 5/22/2008
    2821762 Active
    ACT 13 DATER LN $1,270,000 5/29/2008
    PCH 13 DATER LN $1,118,000 5/30/2008

    Why post this? Check out the equity withdrawal. And not a dime went back into the house.

    Deed $880,000 7/22/2005
    Mortgage $660,000 7/22/2005

    Deed $0 7/16/2007
    Mortgage $938,000 8/3/2007
    Mortgage $62,000 8/3/2007

  126. grim says:


    What towns?

  127. John says:

    Roslyn puts their 2009 detailed school budget on the web, it is amazing the type of expenses that is involved in running a school.

  128. Rich In NNJ says:

    Washington Township (Bergen) Comp Killer!
    2520099 Sold
    SLD 299 FERN ST $420,000 10/13/2005

    2538570 Withdrawn
    ACT 299 FERN ST $489,900 11/18/2005
    EXT 299 FERN ST $489,900 2/17/2006
    W-C 299 FERN ST $489,900 4/6/2006
    2616740 Expired
    ACT 299 FERN ST $459,900 5/2/2006
    EXP 299 FERN ST $459,900 8/2/2006
    2813203 Active
    ACT 299 FERN ST $449,000 4/2/2008
    PCH 299 FERN ST $429,000 5/1/2008
    PCH 299 FERN ST $409,000 5/30/2008

  129. HEHEHE says:


    Good article in Bloomberg Markets re oil shale in North Dakota this month.

  130. grim says:

    Morris County Sales (GSMLS)
    April 2007 – 437
    April 2008 – 286
    (35% drop in sales)

    Median Price of Sales (GSMLS)
    April 2007 – $555,048
    April 2008 – $539,670
    (3% drop in median price)

  131. Rich In NNJ says:

    If May in Morris County is anything like Bergen County the drop will be around 9-10% Y-O-Y.

  132. 3b says:

    3125 morpheus: The agent is a moron, in fact NJ prices are declining, and teh fun is just starting.

    We are no where near a bottom. Run, get another agent;they are after all a dime a dozen.

  133. grim says:

    they are after all a dime a dozen.

    You overpaid

  134. ithink-ithink says:


    not worth more than $275 just 5 years ago
    – Since 2001 everything’s sold over $300k. Nothing under 300k since 1999.
    — Since 1991 everything’s sold over $200k.
    Nothing under 200k since 1985.

  135. gary says:


    Did you see the data grim posted in the bat of an eyelash? Pretty good, don’t ya think? You think your agent with the GED would do this? Or better yet, can do it? Tell the agent Gary said it’s not the end of the world to make lease payments on a Buick.

  136. Stu says:

    “Tell the agent Gary said good luck on their new bartending job.”


  137. gary says:


    What up! lol

  138. morpheus says:

    Thank you for your reply. That was my conclusion, but I did not want to call him/her out on it. I was hoping to salvage the relationship between us because he/she has been spending so much time with us. However, she is very reluctant to make offers 20-30% off of 2006 comp prices and seeks to have us spend more money for a house than we are comfortable spending.

    I try to live within my means. Unfortunately, that limits one’s choices.

    BTW: thanks to all posters on this blog. Have been looking since january and have made two bids so far. Obviously, they have been rejected. Would have made a bid on house my wife and I really liked. However, it was taken off the market when we tried to see it for a second time. Your collective advice has been very helpful and enlightingly. The exception is to the gentleman who kindly refers to people who seek to buy a home for as low of a cost as possible as “housing terrorists”. To that individual I note: If you know anything about our great country’s history, our founding fathers encouraged debate and dissent. They believed that an informed public was a bullwark against despotism. I respectfully request that you respect your fellow citizens right to dissent. Just wanted to get that off my chest!

  139. grim says:

    1) “Drink prices never go down,” said 5 minutes before happy hour.
    2) “They aren’t making anymore alcohol,” as the delivery truck pulls up.
    3) “If you don’t buy a drink now, you’ll never be able to afford one.”
    4) “Don’t worry about the price of the top shelf, we have a credit card machine.”
    5) “Nah, you’re good to drive.”

  140. 3b says:

    #136 grim: You over paid.

    Good One!!

  141. 3b says:

    #141 morpheus and seeks to have us spend more money for a house than we are comfortable spending.

    Do not do it!!! She is not paying your bills, you are. Stand firm, be patient. It is all playing out as so many here knew it would.

  142. RentinginNJ says:

    I am considering getting another agent if this his/her assertion is a falsehood.

    I would

    “you can’t apply national stats to Morris County”.

    Standard RE agent BS straight from the ational Association of Realtors(r) playbook. You downplay the downturn by playing up the “all real estate is local” angle. Every realtor in the country can probably tell you why “it’s different here” and why you should ignore the bad news.

  143. x-underwriter says:

    Most agents try to take the easiest path to their comission checks. in 2006, it was easier to find a buyer that will cough up another $100,000 than to have a seller drop by that much.
    She’s still living in that old paradigm.
    You are in the one from 2009.

  144. morpheus says:

    reply to Grim at #129:
    We are currently looking in boonton township, parsippany, rockaway boro, morristown, morris township, denville. Really like boonton, parsippany and denville.

    Thanks for the data you just sent. I remember seeing it and previously printed.

  145. Stu says:

    Montclair is about to build a new elementary school to seat 550 students for 35 million (current estimate). Trends are showing that the numbers of students are actually declining in our school system. Just down the block from me is the Deron School which the board of ed sold in 1988 to a private school owner for 1.1 million to help our property tax burden.

    Nuff said!

  146. stan says:

    MLS ID# 2440590

    speaking of morris county, What asking was this house first listed at?

    how are the taxes?


  147. ithink-ithink says:

    You don’t need an agent but to send you listings, so just get one, any one of them, to send you listings.

    Contact only the listing agent of the house you want to see.
    You saw the house but didnt like it & now are worried about an agent calling you & emailing you all the time that you don’t want to work with?
    “Thanks for showing us the house, we’re going to hold off our search for now. Best regards.”

    Repeat until you make a bid.

    If you go to an open house, make sure that person IS the listing agent. If they’re not, don’t talk to them about anything.

  148. ithink-ithink says:

    more NYC jobs

    NexCen Brands Inc. announced a 25% cut of its headquarters work force and has hired an adviser to help evaluate potential divestitures.

    2007 financial statements shouldn’t be relied on and prior 2008 guidance “is no longer applicable.”

  149. njpatient says:

    142 morph

    “I was hoping to salvage the relationship between us because he/she has been spending so much time with us. ”

    Kick his/her sorry a$$ to the curb. You don’t have a “relationship.” You are engaged in a financial transaction, the basis of which is that your agent gets paid a handsome some of money to represent your interests. But rather than represent your interests, your agent is looking you right in the eyes and lying to you, with the intent of costing you a mountain of money. He/she might as well pee on you and tell you it’s raining.

    Ask her/him to repeat the canard that sales/prices are rising in Morris, and then ask her/him to produce YOY numbers on sales and median price for April. Then fire her/him/it.

  150. morpheus says:

    reply to #145 (renting in NJ)

    I know the line that the real estate agents used. I have argued with him/her several times in the past and countered his/her arguments with local data showing pricing decreases. Considering David Leath has converted to “side of the light and angels” and Lawrence Yun seems to agree with a reduction of prices of 20% off of peak, I believe my arguments (along with the arguments that you fellow posters have previously posted in the past) are sound. I just wanted to be sure that I did not miss a recent article that was posted here that the agent is citing. I rather not call him/her a liar to his/her face and engage in a confrontation. After all, I believe in giving persons enough rope to hang themselves.

    We were previously considering getting new agent. Now, we will.

  151. njpatient says:


    you said “To that individual I note: If you know anything about our great country’s history” to repossessed101!! You are funny, man!!!!

  152. njpatient says:

    grim – you forgot one:

    6) “I just sold my last drink to the next guy who walked into the bar for twice as much as I paid for it!”

  153. njpatient says:

    “Stand firm, be patient.”

    Excellent advice, 3B. Excellent advice.

  154. Joeycasz says:

    However, she is very reluctant to make offers 20-30% off of 2006 comp prices and seeks to have us spend more money for a house than we are comfortable spending.

    The realtor we ended up with is great. He actually said to us when we got pre-approved. “just because they approved you for X doesn’t mean you should spend X, only get what you can afford.”

    We sat down and figured that out and that’s the price range we’re looking in right now.

  155. John says:

    589 Bayville Rd, Lattingtown, NY
    -28.6% change from first recorded price
    Asking Price $2.5M as of 04/30/2008
    Asking Price $2.8M as of 03/18/2008
    Asking Price $3M as of 11/06/2007
    Asking Price $3.29M as of 10/03/2007
    Asking Price $3.5M as of 09/26/2007

    This is my comp killer of the day

  156. 3b says:

    #152 njpatient:and then ask her/him to produce YOY numbers on sales and median price for April. Then fire her/him/it.

    Really NJ! And now you expect the agent to actually work for his or her commission??

    And you assume that the agent would even undestand what the inforrmation was that morpheus was requesting? it is friday,a d it has been a long week (for a short week).

    I will give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that you had a momentary break with reality.

  157. PGC says:

    Interesting little article.

    “Whatever happened to cheap, efficient cars?
    By 1980, thanks to Middle Eastern wars, the price of oil had spiked to $65 a barrel. Millions of Americans discovered that peppy little Japanese cars could get 35 mpg. For instance, I bought a 4WD Toyota Tercel, a cute little station wagon with an “eager” 1.5-liter, 62-horsepower engine that got 40 mpg on the highway, at 67 mph. That year, about 25 percent of cars sold in the United States were Japanese imports, and Detroit laid off about a third of a workforce that had peaked,
    in 1979, at 1.1 million.

    In April 1981, under pressure from the American Big Three auto manufacturers and the United Auto Workers, the Reagan administration asked Japanese automakers to “voluntarily” restrict their exports to the United States. The Japanese, fearing action by Congress, agreed to limit U.S. sales to about 1.83 million cars per year. Quotas remained in place for the rest of the decade.

    The Japanese factories quickly learned that they could continue to grow — not by selling more cars, but by selling more expensive, more profitable cars, and by building them here. Honda began upsizing the Accord, and laid plans for the 1986 introduction of the luxury-performance Acura brand. Toyota followed suit with the Lexus, and Nissan with the Infiniti, both for debut in 1989. The companies also began up-sizing their Light trucks to compete head on with Detroit.

    At the same time, Saudi Arabia turned on the taps and sent the price of oil plummeting to $22 in 1986. Cheap and plentiful fuel gave Detroit a chance to resume selling gas guzzlers. The first SUVs reached the market in 1991. The era of the cheap, fuel-efficient imported car had ended.”

  158. ithink-ithink says:

    Cost of heating a home could skyrocket

    by Tom Johnson/The Star-Ledger Friday May 30, 2008, 1:00 PM

    The cost of heating a home in New Jersey with natural gas could rise by 20 percent if state regulators approve a pending rate increase.

    Public Service Electric & Gas filed for the increase, which would boost the monthly bill for the average customer by $28.60, to $174.06.

    The company, based in Newark, is the state’s biggest utility and has 1.7 million gas customers.

    The other three gas utilities were expected to file for similarly large rate increases, which industry experts blamed on lower inventories of the fuel, rising international demand for natural gas and significant drops in imports of liquefied natural gas.

    Wholesale gas prices are forecast to be 60 percent higher.

    The higher heating bills, expected to take effect Oct. 1, come as motorist are paying up to $4 per gallon to fill up their tanks.

    Electric utilities, meanwhile, are about to hit customers will higher rates, boosting bills by between $11 and $18 a month.

  159. ADA says:

    Letters From the Home Front: A Real Estate Deal, Seen From 2 Sides

  160. Nom Deplume says:

    Here is a Brigadoon seller in need of a dope slap:

    MLS 2519357. Asking 898K for a 9/4/2 colonial that sellers closed on in July/07 for 869K.

    That, by itself, is funny enough. But the address is East Broad, 2 houses from the offset intersection with Chestnut. That intersection is always a disaster because of the offset streets, and East Broad is a major arterial route in/out of town. Sorry, but just not interested in paying for the privilege of listening to NJ drivers horns, screeching brakes, and foul mouths all night.

    Wife thought it looked nice and large. She failed to notice that the fisheye lens made the front door look as wide as it was tall.

  161. morpheus says:

    reply to #154 NJpatient:
    I am not trying to be funny. Maybe a bit sarcastic. I do not begrudge someone’s opinion if it differs from mine. In fact, I have enjoyed the discourse on this site over the many months I have been observing it. I have learned much from the inteplay between each side of the issue and their respective arguments.

    The basis of my argument to that individual was a recollection of my reading of the Federalist papers so many years ago. Apparenly, it is not fashionable in today’s political landscape to discuss compromise. It is seen as weakness. Hell, the formation of the US Constitution was a compromise. I will now step off my soap box and try to finish my work.

  162. CB in SJ says:

    This DOES include RE taxes. “In calculating the tax burden of a state, total taxes are divided by total income, as reported by the BEA.” (Total income being the median family income of the state).

    JBJB Says:
    May 30th, 2008 at 1:17 pm


    This is referring to income tax only correct? This does not include real estate taxes.

  163. x-underwriter says:

    I just plugged in Roslyn, NY in
    Holy overpriced $hit!!!
    There is a ranch for $700,000 which is identical to one I used to own in a Philly suburb…which I sold in 1998 for $140,000

  164. RentinginNJ says:

    Gov. Jon Corzine today lost his bid to keep secret the e-mail traffic between the governor and state-worker union leader Carla Katz, his -ex-girlfriend, over the first 18 months of his administration.

    … state Superior Court Judge Paul Innes ruled that hundreds of e-mails must be released because they are not merely the private correspondence between two people who once had a relationship. In a clear and strongly worded ruling, the judge said the e-mails are public documents under the state’s Open Public Records Act.

    “The public,” Innes wrote, “has a right to know whether the relationship between the governor and Ms. Katz had any improper influence on the governor’s paramount obligation to serve the interest of the citizens of New Jersey first.”

    State Republican Chairman Tom Wilson sued for the e-mails, saying the public needs to have the right to judge whether the Corzine-Katz relationship “is inappropriately influencing him as governor,” particularly in regard to last year’s contract negotiations with the Communications Workers of America. Katz is president of CWA Local 1034.

    After the Republicans sued the governor, Katz intervened in the lawsuit disagreeing with the governor’s legal points. She argued that the e-mails were part of the union negotiations and are confidential according to a special OPRA exemption for collective-bargaining correspondence. [off topic note, why are union negotiations with our state govt. exempt from OPRA? After all, as taxpayers, we have to pay the bill for the outcome of the negotiations, shouldn’t we get to see how well our interests are being represented?]

  165. Victorian says:

    Who needs the Daily Show when you have real news like this…

    Stocks Up After Economic Data- AP

    Wall Street was higher Friday after government data indicated Americans’ spending rose in April — but only to keep up with rising costs.

  166. Frank says:

    “Cost of heating a home could skyrocket”

    NG is so cheap these days, 20% increase is nothing. Talk to me when it increases 100% in a year.

  167. Joeycasz says:

    She failed to notice that the fisheye lens made the front door look as wide as it was tall.

    Who are they trying to fool by rockin’ the fish eye lens so hard? I mean when people walk in don’t they think they’re going to notice?

  168. Dman says:

    David Lereah Comes Clean

    “We’re not at the bottom,” he says. “[People] want it to be near the bottom, but we’re not there yet. The leading indicators are still very bad. Pending home sales are still in bad shape. Mortgage applications are low … There’s still supply out there in abundance … This thing is going to get worse before it gets better.”

    Lereah says that the industry may begin to see a slight uptick in sales later this summer, which could signal the start of the recovery. Home prices, however, will continue to fall. According to the latest numbers from the Case-Shiller index, the average U.S. home has lost around 15 percent of its value since the market’s peak. “We’re probably going to end up with a 20 percent [decline], but if I’m wrong it will be even more than that,” he says.

    Also: “he has recently set up a new firm called Reecon Advisors, which is advising Wall Street firms and institutional investors about the real estate market.”

    Wow. He made money on the way up and he’ll make tons of it on the way down.

  169. Sean says:

    re: (168) RentinginNJ

    Great now the press will be full of details on how Corzine and Katz used to get their freak on.

  170. sas says:

    awful lot of traffic on those damn roads for $4 gas.

    Looks like $5/gallon is now a reality.


  171. kettle1 says:

    if you would like to resume the hudson county voting rules, you nees to reset your ip address. if you are feeling technically inclined in the slightest, here is how yu do it

    Opening the Windows Command Prompt located in Start -> Accessories 2. Typing in “ipconfig /release” (without the quotes) 3. After releasing the IP, typing in “ipconfig /renew” (without the quotes)

    after eseting your IP address you may vote again. you should be able to do this multiple times if you keep getting an IP address “you dont like”

  172. grim says:

    From Bloomberg:

    Fitch Changes Method of Rating Alt-A Mortgage Bond

    Fitch Ratings modified how it assesses outstanding securities backed by Alt-A U.S. mortgages by starting to update projections for losses from non-delinquent loans instead of keeping estimates static from the time of issuance.

    A record jump in delinquencies and defaults prompted the change, the third-largest credit-ranking company said today in a statement. Borrowers are at least 60 days late on 11 percent of adjustable-rate Alt-A loans backing bonds created in 2006 and rated by the firm, compared with a historical average of 1 percent to 2 percent.

    “There wasn’t the constant roll of current loans to delinquencies that’s happening in the current market,” Vincent Barberio, a managing director at New York-based Fitch, said in a telephone interview.

    In March, Fitch placed almost $160 billion of Alt-A mortgage securities from 2005, 2006 and 2007 under review for downgrades, or about 75 percent of the total. This month, the ratings company lowered rankings on the non-AAA classes based on the new method, said Grant Bailey, a senior director at Fitch.

    Fitch has applied the same process for several years to subprime-mortgage securities, backed by loans made to borrowers with poor credit or high levels of debt.

    The Fitch analysts weren’t able to immediately say how many Alt-A securities from the past three years have been downgraded. Most of the non-AAA bonds were lowered and others remain under review, they said.

    “I don’t know if it’s going to be a majority or not but I think a large number of the senior classes are facing downgrade pressure,” he said.

  173. grim says:

    From Reuters:

    DBRS cuts $15.4 bln mostly subprime RMBS

    Credit agency DBRS cut the ratings on $15.4 billion of residential mortgage-backed securities on Friday, citing the significant increase in serious delinquencies relative to available credit support for the securities.

    DBRS cut the ratings on 562 classes from 144 RMBS transactions that were backed by first-lien mortgages, while downgrading another 68 RMBS classes backed by second-lien collateral, it said.

    “Given the level of serious delinquencies in the current pipeline and corresponding potential for significant future losses, excess spread is not expected to be sufficient to cover anticipated losses,” DBRS said in a report. “Consequently, the principal balance of subordinate classes may suffer principal writedowns,” it said.

    The rating agency said 90 percent of the downgrades were to first-lien subprime mortgages, while the balance of cuts comprised second-lien subprime loans and Alt-A mortgages.

    DBRS said its cuts to the 68 second-lien RMBS classes was also triggered by the rapid deterioration in credit enhancement amid increasing loan delinquencies and losses.

    “Overcollateralization has been depleted in many transactions and excess spread continues to diminish,” said DBRS. “Additionally, in many cases, subordinate classes have already been impaired, further weakening the available credit support for the remaining senior and mezzanine classes.”

  174. Hard Place says:


    Another day in my rental…

  175. grim says:

    Seems that Downgrade Friday is back.

  176. grim says:

    Busy week for Fitch and Alt-A:

    30 May 2008 Fitch Takes Various Actions on Bank of America Alt-A RMBS
    30 May 2008 Fitch Takes Various Actions on JP Morgan Alt-A RMBS
    29 May 2008 Fitch Takes Various Actions on CSFB Alt-A RMBS
    29 May 2008 Fitch Takes Various Actions on CitiMortgage Alt-A RMBS
    29 May 2008 Fitch Takes Various Actions on Citigroup Alt-A RMBS
    29 May 2008 Fitch Takes Various Actions on Lehman Alt-A RMBS
    28 May 2008 Fitch Takes Various Actions on Countrywide Alt-A RMBS

  177. Hehehe says:

    For any of you planning a trip to the Shore this weekend this will save you the trip:

  178. Hard Place says:

    Interesting downgrades. Let’s see how it affects the P&L of these banks. Most tend to hold the equity pieces of their structured deals. If that’s the case a downgrade would put a dent in someone’s P&L.

    Weren’t there some CEO’s of banks saying we are near the end of writedowns?

  179. Victorian says:

    179 – Grim.

    Great!! More good news for the market to rally on.

  180. Hard Place says:

    This is a great article…

    Moody’s Implied Ratings Show MBIA, Ambac Turn to Junk (Update1)

    By David Evans

    May 30 (Bloomberg) — Moody’s Investors Service has created a new unit that surprises even its own director.

    The team from Moody’s Analytics, which operates separately from Moody’s ratings division, uses credit-default swap prices as an alternative system of grading debt. These so-called implied ratings often differ significantly from Moody’s official grades.

    The implied ratings frequently show that swap traders think debt is in more danger of defaulting than Moody’s credit ratings signify. And here’s the kicker: The swaps traders are usually right.

    “When I first saw this product, my reaction was, `Goodness gracious, Moody’s has got a product that is basically publicizing where the market disagrees with Moody’s,”’ says David Munves, managing director for credit strategy research at Moody’s Analytics. The implied-ratings unit works in a corner of Moody’s new world headquarters in lower Manhattan, across the street from Ground Zero.

    “But these differences are out there,” Munves says. “We might as well capture and learn from it what we can.”

    The credit quality of bond insurers, which have been at the center of the subprime storm, differs dramatically. The official ratings of these companies say the insurers are in great shape; the alternative ratings say they’re in dire danger of defaulting on their debts.

    MBIA Inc. and Ambac Assurance Insurance Inc., the two largest bond insurers, got themselves into trouble by veering away from the plain-vanilla business of insuring debt issued by municipalities and corporations. The insurers began selling credit-default swaps, which are a type of insurance, to banks eager to hedge their own risks from collateralized debt obligations.

    Subprime Debt

    Because many of those CDOs were bundles of debt laced with securitized subprime home loans and other asset-backed securities, the insurers might now shoulder tens of billions of dollars in losses.

    Ambac and MBIA have raised billions of dollars of new capital so that Moody’s and Standard & Poor’s would keep top ratings for the bond insurers — and the rating firms have done just that.

    Moody’s implied-ratings group paints a completely different picture. Using CDS market prices, Munves’s unit assigns implied ratings of Caa1 to both MBIA and Ambac. That’s seven notches below junk and 15 below the official Moody’s rating.

    Swap traders see there’s a huge risk that Ambac and MBIA will default, hedge fund adviser Tim Backshall says. He says swap traders don’t trust S&P’s and Moody’s investment-grade ratings for the companies.

    `Into Default’

    “The only thing holding them at AAA is simply the model that the rating agencies claim they use to judge that capital and the fact they know that if they downgrade the companies, it’ll push them into default,” says Backshall, of Walnut Creek, California- based Credit Derivatives Research LLC.

    MBIA spokesman Kevin Brown says the official investment grade ratings are justified. “Credit default swap spreads, in our opinion, are an indicator of investors’ sentiment, as opposed to an objective measure of risk,” he says.

    Brown disagrees with Backshall’s conclusion. “There is nothing about a downgrade that would in and of itself trigger a default. We don’t think that’s going to happen.”

    Ambac Chief Financial Officer Sean Leonard says the credit default swap market may not accurately portray a company’s debt quality.

    “It’s not an efficient market,” he says. “There are technical factors, like supply and demand imbalances, in the credit default swap price that don’t reflect our fundamental ability to make payments on claims.”

    `Will Not Refrain’

    The rating companies say their grades are correct.

    “Moody’s will not refrain from taking a credit rating action based on the potential effect of the action,” says company spokesman Anthony Mirenda.

    S&P spokesman Chris Atkins says, “We make rating changes when we believe events warrant such action.”

    Munves says that over one year, the implied ratings have been a more accurate predictor of defaults than Moody’s ratings. The Moody’s unit reports that implied ratings for one year have a 91 percent accuracy ratio compared with an 82 percent ratio for Moody’s official ratings.

    “The Moody’s accuracy ratio is consistently lower,” he says.

    He says Moody’s company debt ratings are designed to remain stable so they aren’t influenced by short-term ripples, unlike the more volatile swap-implied ratings.

    “The CDS market often ends up coming back towards Moody’s rating,” he says.

    By the time the two ratings converge, though, a company’s debt may already be in default — and the investors who bought it may be out of luck.

  181. alia says:

    On zillow, two posters (and current renters) have evidence that their landlords are in foreclosure on the rentals, so they will probably get evicted. The current advice is moving towards “tenants, research your prospective landlords” (mine’s last mortgage was in the 80s. as long as she doesn’t pass increased heating costs onto us again, we’re good.) But this was a salutory reminder that renting in this market is not the perfectly safe answer i had been seeing it as.

    1) any other renters on the board researching their landlords’ finances?

    2) in the same way that buyers are now saying “it doesn’t matter what the seller paid three yrs ago, the market price is the market price,” is there an equivalent philosophy for landlords/renters? are rents expected to go up when re taxes or heating costs go up, or are rents supposed to be market driven?

    …i thought i would buy in nj… now i’m wondering if i should just buy more shares in costco and haunt my local pawnshops for gold. (er, assuming that’s the cheapest way to get the yellow stuff.)


  182. sas says:

    I agree Grim.

    “The most common outcome is probably that a buyer overpays for a home,” he said. “I think it’s only a matter of time before a buyer who buys a home under these false pretenses realizes it and perhaps sues the real estate agent for misrepresenting a house”


  183. 3b says:

    #186 sas: I am seeing houses that have recently closed that would be immediately under water if they were to sell now, and that is not including the real estate commission.

    Even in this declining market, there are still people over paying.

  184. Joeycasz says:

    For any of you planning a trip to the Shore this weekend this will save you the trip:

    Completely disgusted, thanks!

  185. jam says:

    Prices have come down to a level where houses were being “flying off the shelves(?)” in days gone by – but they are still not selling. No one wants to overpay. It’s self-fulfilling. Eventually prices will fall below market at which point there will be a rebound. That day, however, has yet to come. You don’t have to catch the falling knife as it hits the floor – a few inches on the way down or the “bounce(?)” back up are fine.

  186. jam says:

    Yeah, that guidofistpump site is great. I had to pass that one along.

  187. Everything's Hobroken says:

    RE NJ tenant rights under foreclosure:

    This article claims most NJ tenants are protected during foreclosure:

  188. sas says:

    “In terms of eviction, landlords can only evict for good cause,” Pascale advised — and foreclosure does not constitute good cause”


  189. njpatient says:

    “I will give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that you had a momentary break with reality.”

    Thanks, 3B. I need a drink, and maybe a good slap.

  190. njpatient says:

    164 Nom Deplume

    “Here is a Brigadoon seller in need of a dope slap”

    I know that house
    I may stop and slap them on my way home, since, as you say, they’re on the main drag into town. I’ll skid to a halt in the front yard in front of their oddly wide door.

  191. sas says:

    Its my understanding, that the only one who can actually enter your rental & owned homes to evict is the local sheriffs. And, in order to do that, they need a court order. Meaning someone has to goto court first and go through all the red tape paper to move someone out.

    So, the moral of the story is easy, if your falling way behind in your rent, your staring down the barrel of forclosure, or you MORON landlord is facing forclosure.

    STOP payments, and sit rent free unit a sheriff comes to your door and gives you the notice you have to leave. The sheriff will give you a notice first, then if your still there, they will forefully evict.

    But seriously, you know how long that would take? I would imagine at least 6 months.

    Sure would be nice to be rent or mortgage free for 6 months for some…


  192. sas says:

    someone may have to verify me on my posts about the sheriff. I’m not 100% about the sheriff, but I’m pretty sure.

    what say you?


  193. njpatient says:

    165 morpheus

    I was agreeing with you in my own raucous way. I feel no obligation to be polite to repossessed101, though I respect that you do.

  194. Frank says:

    You’re right, but in NJ, NY it’s more like 2 years of free rent. These days because the courts are backed up with other deadbeats it’s longer. After 2 years you file for BK and you have another year rent free.

  195. chicagofinance says:

    A couple of scotches and then we all belt this out karoke style at the GTG…

    This in the official theme music of the NNJ RE Report….

  196. lostinny says:

    199 Chifi
    I am bringing my camera!

  197. Sean says:

    50 cent’s home on Long Island went up in flames today. Investigators from the Suffolk County arson squad were called to the scene after Dix Hills Fire Chief Larry Feld deemed the blaze suspicious

  198. Clotpoll says:

    think (150)-

    How many houses have you purchased in your life?

    If the answer is one or less, STF up.

  199. lostinny says:

    201 Sean
    His ex was just on the news saying she swears he did it- that he was trying to kill her.

  200. Clotpoll says:

    If you’re going to decouple from using an agent to represent you in a purchase, it is the height of hypocrisy, greed and douchebagness to use someone to funnel you information when you have no real intention of engaging their services.

    Think what you want about agents, but if you’re not going to work with us, then don’t.

    If a buyer can’t find a good agent now, it’s due to either laziness or complete lack of ability to ask some probing questions and collecting a reference or two. Incompetents are being cashiered out of the biz every day now.

  201. Clotpoll says:

    Sean (173)-

    “Great now the press will be full of details on how Corzine and Katz used to get their freak on.”

    Which means the public will turn its entire focus onto this sordid tale, rather than the slow motion rape of NJ by all the other kleptocrats in Trenton.

  202. 3b says:

    #205 clot: What are your thought on the new looseer FHA requrements that will be going into effect in June? All will be well for the sellers? Thanks as always.

  203. scribe says:

    Keith at HousingPanic says:

    (UPDATE) We´re losing to FREAKING NEW JERSEY HP´ers!! So get that vote in at least once every day! Freaking New Jersey.

    It’s getting hot and heavy! :)

  204. Joeycasz says:

    When is this thing over?

  205. Nom Deplume says:


    I feel his pain. Where I am from (or lived) there is nothing more galling than losing to NY or NJ at anything.

    Still, Grim is the man. So I vote early and often.

  206. grim says:

    When is this thing over?

    Tomorrow at midnight maybe?

  207. grim says:

    Nothing to see here folks..

    From the FDIC:

    FDIC Approves the Assumption of All the Deposits of First Integrity Bank, National Association, Staples, Minnesota

    First Integrity, National Association, Staples, Minnesota, with $54.7 million in total assets and $50.3 million in total deposits as of March 31, 2008, was closed today by the Office of the Comptroller of the Currency, and the Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation was named receiver.

    The FDIC Board of Directors today approved the assumption of all the deposits of First Integrity by First International Bank and Trust, Watford City, North Dakota. Depositors of First Integrity will automatically become depositors of the assuming bank and continue to have uninterrupted access to their deposits. The failed bank’s two offices will reopen on Saturday from 8:30 a.m. to 11:30 a.m. as branches of First International.

    In addition to assuming all of the deposits of the failed bank, First International will purchase approximately $35.8 million of First Integrity’s assets for a total premium of $2.03 million. The FDIC will retain approximately $18.9 million in assets for later disposition.

  208. JBJB says:

    I often sit around and wonder how NJ got into the mess that it’s in. Tonight I watched a debate of three democrats running for senate and I now understand. Jesus H Christe, two nitwits debating a corpse over who could tax and spend more. They had to be the three most inarticulate boobs I have ever seen. They made George Bush sound like JFK. We are doomed.

  209. Hobokenite says:


    If I understand you correctly, the agent in question was claiming that certain “articles” were claiming prices were going back up. If that is the case, ask them to give you a copy of these articles.

  210. scribe says:

    The contest is running throughout April and May and we will announce the winners on June 1st. There will be a $500 prize each for the Fan Favorite and Editor’s Choice as well as a random $500 just for submitting! If you hope to win the Fan Favorite prize, be sure to solicit votes on your blog with our voting widget. It can be embedded in a post and it makes it very easy for your readers to vote.

  211. sas says:

    I think RE agents can be very helpful.
    We can’t make blanket statements.

    Most people whom have never bought or only used one once and haven’t done homework…best to get an agent.

    However, the RE agents have been tainted in the past few years. So, you have to search a little, but good ones are out there.

    RE agents remind me alot of dentists.
    Most are morons and full shit to charge you money, but when you find a good one.. you hold tight to them and give good word of mouth.


  212. sas says:

    If one has never sold a house before, best get an reputableagent, and forget For Sale by Owner tactic.

    For Sale by Owner usually backfires.


  213. sas says:

    As for me,
    I’d steer clear of weichert realty.
    THey are snake oil salesmen.


  214. sas says:

    Who is 50 cent?

    and how can someone with only 50 cents buy and own a multimillion dollar home?

    He would be better off getting braces & new suit if he has that kind jack.


  215. RentinginNJ says:

    In order to ensure the RE blog contest is won fair and square, please ensure that you don’t have program such as “IP Hider” installed on your computer. This program could inadvertently allow you to vote more than once.

    If you are unsure of what the offending program looks like, it can be found here:

  216. Gerard Viola says:

    Look at many houses in Surf City Nj and found a house just listed for 749000. How low would someone start as a asking bid without offending the seller?

  217. Pat says:

    Good job on the leaderboard results, clot.
    Excellent position for a Southern gentleman burdened with a name that could shame Graydon’s.

    Nice comp killer, John.

    As for the rest of you Jersey Crush Valor losers, waassup wit dat? If you vote Hudson, you vote Hudson. Let’s go.

  218. njpatient says:

    I think Crush Valor is a comic book character. He’s friends with Prince Valiant.

  219. Essex says:

    I like 223….as a number and wanted to post here.

  220. Pat says:

    Isn’t that Prince Plymouth Valiant?

  221. Pat says:

    Holy cow. When you search Crush Valor, this blog is like one of the first results.

    John, you’re a genius.

    Can somebody get that copyrighted?

  222. Happy Camper says:

    “RE agents remind me alot of dentists.
    Most are morons and full shit to charge you money, but when you find a good one.. you hold tight to them and give good word of mouth.”

    You can pretty much replace “dentists” by any other skill and the statement would apply. In another words, you are stating the obvious.


  223. lostinny says:

    222 Patient
    Right now I wish I was friends with Prince Valium.

  224. lostinny says:

    222 Patient
    Right now I wish I was friends with Prince Valium.

  225. grim says:

    From the Courant:

    Group Predicts Low Housing Prices Locked In

    If you’re eager for home prices to turn up again in Connecticut, you may have to wait until at least the summer of 2009. And even then, it will take years to return to 2007 prices.

    That was the forecast presented Friday as economists from throughout the region gathered for the New England Economic Partnership’s spring conference. The group’s five-year predictions for home prices and job growth are more dire than the last forecast in November.

    The full-year median, not including new construction, hit $320,600 in Connecticut in 2007, beating previous predictions despite a slowdown in the number of sales. For this year, the figure is expected to drop to $283,100, according to Edward Deak, an economics professor at Fairfield University and manager of the Connecticut forecast for the partnership.

    That would represent a decline of 12 percent. Deak predicted a further decline to $274,200 for all of 2009, followed by a slow, modest rise to $292,300 in 2012.

    “This is going to be with us a while,” Deak said. “We’re not going to be anywhere near the level we were.”

  226. grim says:

    From the Record:

    PSE&G wants 20% hike for natural gas heat

    Gas-heat customers would pay 20 percent more under a rate-hike request filed Friday by Public Service Electric and Gas Co.

    Citing the soaring wholesale price of natural gas, the state’s largest utility asked the Board of Public Utilities for an increase that would boost a typical customer’s annual bill by $346 to $2,080. The increase, which would take effect Oct. 1, would affect about 500,000 customers in Bergen and Passaic counties.

    A typical residential gas heating customer who uses 200 therms in a winter month would see the monthly bill go from $285 to $342, an increase of $57.

    If the rate hike is approved as expected, it will mean that customers will be paying 79 percent more than they did five years ago.

  227. Rich In NNJ says:

    OT: Odd

    From The Record

    Hazardous liquid found in vacant home

    The discovery of a potentially hazardous liquid in a vacant Oradell house forced police to close Ridgewood Avenue for more than three hours today (Friday).

    Officials from the Department of Public Works found 15-25 gallons of a liquid while cleaning the yard of the vacant home, at 676 Ridgewood Avenue, said Police Officer and ex-Fire Chief David Gangemi.

    The house appeared to be vacant and the power had been turned off.

    Borough officials had been trying to get the house clean for months, said Administrator Wolfgang Albrecht, Jr. Garbage had piled up, weeds grew three feet high and abandoned vehicles sat in the driveway.

  228. Stan says:

    Hey Grim. Looking for a little help. Seem to think this house started out much higher Looks like its on a main road. Any info would be appreciated. We may take a look at a few houses in Morris today. Thanks.

    MLS ID

  229. Clotpoll says:

    Pat (221)-

    I’m amazed. Most of the people who post at my blog come there to call me an a**hole.

    Thanks to all…vote for Grim!

  230. willwork4beer says:

    Hey Everybody! Please vote for Grim. Today is the last day of the contest and Keith of HP is getting desperate. Now he is trashing New Jersey. Here’s a quote… “UPDATE) We´re losing to FREAKING NEW JERSEY HP´ers!! So get that vote in at least once every day! Freaking New Jersey.” He also labeled his current thread “new jersey sucks”.


  231. willwork4beer says:

    Just posted on HP telling Keith he is a loser. Politely. Wonder if my comment will survive moderation…

  232. lostinny says:

    No matter what I do, I can’t vote again. Booo!

  233. willwork4beer says:

    #233 Stan

    This is a good one…


    03/02/07 OLP $700,000

    Reduced to $600,000

    Withdrawn 08/31/07

    09/04/07 OLP $579,000

    Current LP $399,000

    Days on market: 270

    Estate sale. 2006 taxes: $8223

  234. lostinny says:

    238 work4beer

    What was the original sale price?

  235. willwork4beer says:


    Couldn’t get anything older then what I posted. Its an estate sale so the last sale may have been quite awhile ago. Place was built in 1770. Historic Register and all that… ;)

  236. lostinny says:

    240 beer
    I’ve found (in my meager attempts at looking for original “recent” sale prices in NY) that purchases around 30 years or older don’t seem to show. I can only guess at what they paid. I know I’d die to pay what my parents paid 30 years ago for their home. Their home has appreciated 600%.

  237. Cindy says:

    Good Morning All… Totally agree with SAS and Clot on the value of a good R/E agent. I have purchased three homes in my lifetime – all with R/E agents.

    Last time around (1999) she patiently showed me everything in my price range for a solid month until I finally figured out I needed to “up” my price range to get what I wanted. She stuck with me through that “learning” process then zeroed in on exactly what I wanted. Keys for me were finding a good listener ..and someone who really knew the area where I wanted to purchase.

  238. lostinny says:

    242 Cindy
    I think all of you are right. Someone made reference earlier to thinning the herd. I believe I’ll need to wait for the herd to be thinned to find a good agent. People around here are still pricing like its 2005-6.

  239. Cindy says:

    Hi Lost – How ya been? You’ll know a good agent when you find one. They will allow you the space to figure out for yourself what you need/want… No hocus pocus or pressure.

  240. willwork4beer says:


    I grew up in “Prestigious Bergen County”. My parents paid $47,000 for a 4 bed, 2 bath in 1970.

    I can’t afford to buy there now. Even if I sold a kidney…

  241. lostinny says:

    244 Cindy
    Things are good here. I hope all is well by you. End of the year coming up. Crunch time for you?
    We had an agent though Weichert. He was nothing spectacular- I felt I was doing a lot of legwork myself. But it was the height of the bubble so nothing he showed us in our range was decent and what we liked was out of our budget. I’m sure it will be different this time around. But now I’ll also be interviewing agents as opposed to taking the one “assigned” to me because I inquired about a listing.

  242. lostinny says:

    245 Beer
    I did not grow up in Prestigious Bergen County. But I did grow up in an area many felt, and still feel, is one of the last decent places to live in NYC. I couldn’t disagree more. I also would not consider selling any body parts to live here.

  243. Cindy says:

    You all know where I stand regarding your property taxes. CA is messed up but our Prop.13, backed by Howard Jarvis in the 70’s, set a limit (2%) on how much property taxes could increase annually. IMO, that is a good thing. You at least have SOME idea of the future costs you are committing to when you purchase.

  244. Cindy says:

    (246) Lost – Crunch time for sure. One more week of school then off for a vaca in the Pacific NW to see the grandkids. Good idea to be selective with your agent. It makes all the difference in the world.

  245. willwork4beer says:


    I understand completely. That’s why I am still on the sidelines. BTW, Mrs. Beer grew up in “Desirable Ocean County”. Her parents paid $15,000 for a 3/2 bilevel in 1969. Their house would probably sell for close to $400K now…

  246. lostinny says:

    249 Cindy
    I hope you get through it ok. Enjoy your vacation. Yes this time around will be very different.

  247. lostinny says:

    250 Beer
    I can’t even imagine paying 15K for a house, land, nothing. Mrs. Beer’s parents will make out better then mine. :)
    If I could get land for 15K, or even 50K, I’d build my dream home. But then I guess we all would. :)

  248. willwork4beer says:


    Yup. But things are getting better, slowly but surely. I am hoping for next summer. Things are already looking more reasonable here in “(insert silly adjective here) Hunterdon County”.

  249. lostinny says:

    254 Beer
    I’m stuck where I am so I’m pretty sure this will be one of the last areas to capitulate. Our lease is up the end of 2009. Hopefully at that point there will be deals to be found without too much game playing.

  250. willwork4beer says:


    NJ RE Report – 1311

    HousingPANIC – 1270


  251. willwork4beer says:

    254 lost

    I think you will be seeing a lot less gaming by the end of 2009. Even if it doesn’t happen by then, don’t enter into another long lease. Lots of adjustable resets in 2010 and 2011 will drive the market down further IMHO. :)

  252. jamil says:

    about the vote..Why don’t we have superdelegates or smoky backrooms to decide the winner? Alternatively, we could hire ACORN and ACLU to “optimize” the results. Dead people have rights, too!

  253. lostinny says:

    256 Beer
    I’m sure you’re right. But I’m not sure this area will capitulate by then. The people around here are worse then Bergen county with the “rules don’t apply to me” attitude.

  254. willwork4beer says:


    Sorry to hear that. The fact is, most people are clueless. I had someone going on and on at a bbq last weekend telling me that I was crazy for not buying now…

  255. Sybarite says:

    Will Work:

    Let me know about that Mt Kemble house if you get a chance to go look at it. I’ve been curious about it for some time, but I’m assuming it’s structurally questionable.

  256. willwork4beer says:


    You’ll have to ask Stan, #233. Morris Twp would be OK with me but it would be a heck of a commute for Mrs. Beer (Princeton).

  257. 40% off Peak says:

    “When is this thing over?”

    This is f*cking Jersey. We are a bunch of Bayonne bleeders. We’ll decide when it’s over.

  258. 3b says:

    #259 telling me that I was crazy for not buying now…

    It makes them feel better.

  259. bairen says:

    I love when people tell me now is a good time to buy. I tell them next year will be even better, if we still have jobs.

    This usually causes confusion.

  260. Fiddy Cents on the Dollar says:

    beer :250

    Ocean County was the wilderness in 1969 (some areas still are). The commute to jobs in North Jersey/Manhattan was considered too far. Now you sit in evening traffic for hours between Brick & Lacey Twp.

  261. scribe says:

    Lost, you said:

    I know I’d die to pay what my parents paid 30 years ago for their home. Their home has appreciated 600%.

    Inflation is a very big part of it.

    When houses were selling for $50,000 to $70,000, $20,000 was a good salary. $30,000 – $40,000 was big bucks.

  262. Clotpoll says:

    Don’t let the douchebag at HP win.

  263. A.West says:

    I need some help from Grim and/or like minded pros. The wife and I are in our first home (4br/3ba in Scotch Plains, bought in 2000), but can afford much more house. We have a couple hundred K in cash in the bank, to pay the down payment. No debt other than the $250k mortgage on the house, maybe worth $500k in a fire sale. My wife wants a certified new/newish McMansion, not a “charming” old house in Westfield next door. I go along with that because I hate repairing old homes. I work in Somerville, she works around Woodbridge. So far, Warren/Green Brook looks like the most appealing location to search for McMansions. South side of Scotch Plains, some parts of Edison might be ok too. Homes listed in Dec/Jan there for 1.2m are now down to 1m. I hate the 17K+ property tax associated, but am paying 10K for Scotch Plains too.

    So anyway, I’d be thrilled to not lose money on my next house over a 5-yr time horizon. Maybe it’s inevitable, but would like to minimize the damage within the constraints of keeping my wife happy. Not looking at this as an investment, but as a higher expense allocation. Looking for 5br/3.5+ba, with a finished basement to become main playroom. Hope to get this for less than $1mn. Combined gross base for both of us about $250k, plus some bonuses. Our jobs look reasonably secure, though my wife may switch jobs/locations sometime in the next couple of years. Neither one of us plan to work in NYC again.

    I’m thinking that next year will probably be a better time to buy price-wise, but this year might be a good time to buy selection-wise. So if I had a good agent who could help me haggle and get a good deal, maybe late this summer would be an okay time to buy, in my circumstance.

    Grim, I think you have access to my email with my comment submission, I’d appreciate it if you could recommend a buyer’s agent savvy within this geography/real estate range.

    Advice from others on the board is also welcome.

  264. lostinny says:

    266 Scribe
    I’m well aware thanks. But then back then, homes would have cost 2- 2.5x’s your salary. If I could find that now, I’d be a very happy camper. But around here, it’s still 4x’s the salary and more.

  265. kettle1 says:

    SO when do we breakout of the pitchforks and torches? or does this neam that the government now gets a cut of all profits???

    Kohn Signals Wall Street May Get Permanent Access to Fed Loans
    May 30 (Bloomberg) — Federal Reserve Board Vice Chairman Donald Kohn raised the possibility of giving Wall Street securities firms permanent access to loans from the central bank, as long as regulators tighten oversight of the companies.

    Kohn also advocated continuing Fed auctions of funds to commercial banks and loans of Treasuries to Wall Street dealers even after markets stabilize. Such channels would stay open “either on a standby basis or operating at a very low level,” he said in a speech in New York yesterday.

    The remarks go beyond Fed Chairman Ben S. Bernanke, who has indicated the central bank would shut lending to investment banks when the credit crisis passes. Lawmakers and regulators are debating how to approach the supervision of investment banks in the aftermath of the Fed’s rescue of Bear Stearns Cos. in March.

    “If you are a bondholder in one of these Wall Street firms, you know you have a big `Sugar Daddy’ now called the Federal Reserve that’s going to back you up,” said Jeff Pantages, chief investment officer of Alaska Permanent Capital Management in Anchorage, which oversees $1.8 billion in assets.

  266. kettle1 says:

    Kohn Signals Wall Street May Get Permanent Access to Fed Loans

  267. njpatient says:

    258 jamil

    too right.
    Perhaps we could also change the voting rules midway through the election.

  268. 40% off Peak says:

    kettle [270],

    Of course it will be permanent. The window will be locked open. As a consequence, there will be greater regulations and much less leverage. It’s time to short NY/NNJ. The 28 year trendline has been violated. The new bubble will be wealth destruction.

  269. njpatient says:

    “Our lease is up the end of 2009. Hopefully at that point there will be deals to be found without too much game playing.”

    Same here.

    If NJ is still “immune”, we’ll take our NYC money and spend it other than in NJ.

  270. Laurie says:

    Prices holding in NW Bergen County!!!!..under contract after 6 weeks on the mkt…mls# 2813817….U/C to a local family that wanted the neighborhood…AND plan to renovate..someone has some $$$ around here.

  271. njpatient says:

    NJRE 1325
    HP 1300

  272. 3b says:

    #275U/C and sold 2 very different things. Lots of people paid lots of bucks for lots of houses over the last few years.

    It is of course turing out thats lots of these people did not have the money to pay for these houses.

    When people pay cash, for a house, well no that to me is impressive.

  273. lostinny says:

    273 Patient
    I wish we could go. But we would literally lose half our income. And even with cola adjustments, we still wouldn’t be able to make it. Maybe it is time to consider law school. :)

  274. 3b says:

    #273 njpatient:If NJ is still “immune”,

    And of course we are seeing that NJ is in fact not immune.

  275. jami says:

    Anyway, I think this is fair from Obama. Taxes in NJ are now too low.

  276. Rich In NNJ says:

    Laurie (275),

    The house was purchased in 2001 for $690,000

    56 days on the market. Updated a few windows and the kitchen.
    IF it were to sell at asking that means a return of 4.2% per year.

    Another 5 bd, 3 1/2 bath on the same street sold for $920k in 3/2007.

    Three 4 bedrooms on the same street sold for between $955k and $964k in 2006.

    There’s a 4 bed, 2 1/2 bath available on the same street as well for $750k.

    In any case, I wouldn’t call “Prices holding in NW Bergen County!!!!” over one house in Mahwah that will probably sell below the last comp.

  277. Frank says:

    Where’s the recession?

    Tallest residential tower in NYC to be build.

  278. njpatient says:

    jamil – that’s just a function of the fact that NJ has the highest income in the nation (i.e., it’s merely an expression of the % of NJ workers who earn more than $102K) – it’s kind of a meaningless stat.

  279. njpatient says:

    Furthermore, it is accurate to say that NJ workers currently pay the lowest percentage of their income in SS taxes of any state in the nation. It’s meaningless…but accurate.

  280. lisoosh says:

    Patient – #285 – Not if you have a political axe to grind. Then it becomes a deep and meaningful statistical analysis proving that any Democrat who might possibly attain the Presidency will personally see to it that New Jerseys residents are deliberately and insiduously targeted.

    I personally would be happy if some of the Red States just gave us our money back, but that is just me.

  281. njpatient says:

    “I personally would be happy if some of the Red States just gave us our money back, but that is just me.”

    Wealth redistribution. They don’t call them Red states for nothing.

  282. Laughing all the way says:

    anyone seen the NYT business section today? Hilarious advice for how to write a letter if you want to lowball someone. THere is also a letter for sellers who receive the lowball letter. highly recommend it.

    Also, and i know we’ve covered this before, but does it ever make sense to LEASE a car instead of buying?

    Have a small business, and i basically am looking to find out if there are any benefits to business owners who lease instead of buy.

    (And i know – never buy a new car. I
    obviously wouldn’t.)

  283. njpatient says:

    Mrs. Patient and I read that article this morning over breakfast – what a riot. We were definitely laughing all the way.

  284. jamil says:

    about SS tax: It is fair to say, that raising the cap as Obama proposes (but not Hillary, afaik) would be unfair, especially to NJ. Taxes here are already the highest (or top3) in the nation and it would further damage the quality of living here. Do you think it makes things better in NJ? Isn’t this one more reason to leave NJ?

    Salary is higher here, but higher taxes eliminate the advantage. This would be idiotic, job-killing tax.

    But maybe I just have political axe to grind. Maybe NJ property taxes are too low. Maybe SS tax here is too low. Come to think of it, state tax and sales tax are also too low.

  285. Rich In NNJ says:

    Frank (284),

    It’s not like the developers woke up yesterday and decided to build. This was in motion way before the word recession was even mentioned (well, in the MSM at least).

  286. njpatient says:

    “Taxes here are already the highest (or top3) in the nation”

    NJ workers currently pay the lowest percentage of their income in SS taxes of any state in the nation.

    Furthermore, a large percentage of NJ wealth creation is not made via employment income, and is not even subject to Social Security tax.

    Social Security is very simply less of a financial burden on Jersey than it is on most other states in the nation.

    If you want to argue that the cap on SS taxes shouldn’t be raised as a general matter, I would agree with you, because Social Security is the single most solvent program currently in existence. If we’re going to be raising taxes, it should be whatever tax that would pay for the military budget but doesn’t.
    But to suggest that the SS burden is or would be greater here than in, say, Idaho, is idiotic.

  287. jamil says:

    “But to suggest that the SS burden is or would be greater here than in, say, Idaho, is idiotic.”

    Rising the cap would impact states like NJ the most. This is a fact. Rarely anybody in Idaho would be affected, but in NJ, the struggling middle-class would be heavily affected. People can barely survive with mortgage and property tax payments now with their 120-200k salaries and raising the cap would affect these people heavily.

  288. Rich In NNJ says:

    Preliminary NJMLS Sold & Under Contract (Pending) May Data for Bergen County

    Year #Sold #U/C
    1991 710 924
    1992 679 792
    1993 598 961
    1994 728 935
    1995 613 909
    1996 687 1042
    1997 765 942
    1998 772 1040
    1999 743 999
    2000 786 977
    2001 736 1075
    2002 847 1022
    2003 713 1030
    2004 807 1072
    2005 873 1149
    2006 808 1050
    2007 824 964
    2008 500 763

    Sales: 39% drop from last year and 43% drop from 2005

    Under Contract: 21% drop from last year and 33.5% drop from 2005

  289. Rich In NNJ says:


    New listing in River Edge

    NJMLS 2821872
    Taxes: $9,075
    No prior history… so it probably need updating.
    Corner lot, APPOXIMATE LOT SIZE 102 X 90 X 100 X 58.

  290. Confused In NJ says:

    Obama’s idea on applying Social Security Tax with no limits on Salary might work if he also changes the Tax % applied. Salary $100K Tax 10%, Salary $200K Tax 20%, etc., capped at $1M Tax 100%. He could also reduce Social Security Benefit by the Amount of Other Pensions. If the recent UTICA NY Police Chief has a $250K Pension and Social Security is $20K, retired Police Chief will be assessed the difference ($210K) which will be returned to the General Fund. A Private Worker with a $20K Pension & $20K SS has no liability. The difference test will basically effect Public Sector employees and Private Executives.

  291. Curmudgeon says:


    You’re killing me. Are you some angry 15 year old kid, or what? Take a deep breath and try to gather your thoughts.

    If you actually have the kind of income that you claim, you are pathetic if you are struggling. My wife and I each make ever so slightly more than $100,000. (Less than your normal range of professional salaries of $120-200,000, but we’re not corporate drones…) Our state income taxes are basically nothing. Our property taxes are $7,000. Our schools are great and our town is Mayberry, more or less. We have never inherited anything from anybody. We have no debt and take 6 real vacations every year. You’re doing it wrong.

  292. stan says:

    Beer– thanks for the help on that house on Kemble-206 in Morris.

    SYB-Saw it earlier today. Interesting place. Needs about 200K to make it livable.Example- See from top floor to basement through floors. Plot of land and grounds can be very nice. Sits on rt 206, literally. No parking for more than two cars–Tough on house guests. 225 year old house, and it shows both good ways and bad ways. Looked good structurally but pipes, electric, kitchen,baths, etc needs a TON of work.
    That being said 700K original ask is hilarious. If you had the time and the money it could be interesting.


  293. scribe says:

    lost, #269

    point taken

  294. HEHEHE says:

    “People can barely survive with mortgage and property tax payments now with their 120-200k salaries and raising the cap would affect these people heavily.”

    Survive may be too harsh a phrase but I would definately not call a $120-200K salary in this area as being rich. Upper Middle Class starts at $200K.

  295. scribe says:


    If you feel that strongly about beating HP, tell your voters to throw their votes to Grim.

    Sort of like John Edwards throwing his superdelegates to Obama :)

  296. jamil says:

    #298: Curmudgeon

    I didn’t talk about myself, but middle-class in general. I haven’t claimed I’m struggling (I’m not, thank you very much).

    The issue is that people in Idaho would not be affected at all, but people in NJ would be (easily extra $3-5k taxes per year).
    I’m pretty sure there are lot of NJ residents (making 100-200k/year) who would struggle to pay that (or it may be another good reason to leave NJ). Maybe people on this board (who refused to buy overpriced pos) are fine, but they are in minority. Haven’t you heard about the housing problems in NJ? You know, people are really struggling right now.

  297. Shore Guy says:

    # 289 “Have a small business, and i basically am looking to find out if there are any benefits to business owners who lease instead of buy. ”

    It can make things less complicated at tax time to have a business lease. No tracking miles. I would never lease for personal use, but have no issue doing so for business.

  298. lisoosh says:

    I remember listening to Hannity once on the radio, first time, knew nothing about him. April 1st. He was claiming to have had a “revelation” and decided to swing left. After the initial call-ins calling “April Fools” he started to get lots of panicked calls from his regulars that he was “leaving them” and a turncoat, and all the rest.
    Funny thing, as a left leaning person, I never bought it for a second, and I didn’t even know his politics. The list of new positions he came up with weren’t liberal – they were the straw men, bleeding heart “liberal positions” so-called conservatives like to invent to argue against.
    Whenever I hear a conservative try to spin a “liberal” viewpoint to bolster their position, they always get it wrong, the tenor, the logic, the concern. Everything.

    Raising SS limits in NJ will only affect people who make above the current limit, and only up to the new one. And it will affect the exact same people nationwide irrespective of state.
    Anybody who is concerned about the NJ middle class should focus on NJ taxes primarily – property taxes especially, and those aren’t set by the President but by our friends and neighbours who sit on town boards and those who don’t bother paying attention to those boards. Might also want to focus a little on State Government and corruption, on BOTH sides of the aisle. And maybe some time focussing on the shocking state of affairs whereby NJ taxpayers are subsidizing road, schools, and peanut festivals in many states which are happy to disparage our politics while taking our money. Lets stop funding Southern reelection campaigns with federal pork and let those congressmen and senators take their lumps when they don’t bring back the NJ bacon.

    Unless there is an axe to grind of course.

  299. Shore Guy says:

    Speaking of issues driving high taxes.

  300. Clotpoll says:

    scribe (302)-

    I have asked anyone voting for me to vote for Grim. Repeatedly. Hell, I don’t even know who it is (other than a couple of folks from here) that’s pulling the lever for me.

    I’m so non-tech, I can’t even figure out how to put the voting widget at my blog. I tried once and crashed my browser.

    Vote for Grim!

  301. Frank says:

    1. Don’t look for the agent to do the negotiation, it’s your money do it yourself.
    2. If you do not want to lose money on the next house over a 5-yr time, don’t buy it now. There will be plenty of selection in the high end market.

  302. Clotpoll says:

    Everyone here might like to know that Duck sent me a happy little personal e-mail after I suggested at HP that he give up trying to sell his crummy little house and just burn it down.

    He is a very angry man…and in complete denial, still.

  303. Clotpoll says:

    Hey, Frank (308)-

    You can’t lose money on a house unless you actually sell it and find you have to bring a check to the closing.

    You know nothing of this person’s needs, desires or expected window of occupancy…and you’re dispensing advice?


  304. lostinny says:

    309 Clot
    What did he say?

  305. Shore Guy says:


  306. jamil says:

    #305 lisoosh

    “And it will affect the exact same people nationwide irrespective of state.”

    Well, no it doesn’t.
    You forgot that $100k NJ income equals to something like $50k in Idaho (and $70k in Texas) because of local taxes and house prices.

    So, this affect especially NJ.
    If you make 100k in Idaho, you are rich, but in NJ you can barely survive (if you want to have non-pos house).

  307. jamil says:

    CNN is reporting that Barack Hussein Obama has just resigned (from the Trinity Church).

    Well, better late than never..

  308. Sybarite says:


    Was driving by and decided to pull in to the driveway to walk around premises. I agree with your assessment,house is in pretty rough shape, but has definite potential if you’re willing to work on it.

    If I was in the market for a SFH, I’d look further into it, but I’m sticking to multifamilies for the moment.

  309. lisoosh says:

    Jamil – we can go round and round in circles forever with this strain of Limburgh logic.

    You aren’t going to convince me that raising the SS limit somewhat is the worst of New Jersey’s problems, or the worst of middle class New Jerseys problems and I am not going to convince you that you don’t need to come up with such ridiculous “Obama is going to destroy your life” screeds.
    I’m well aware of New Jerseys cost of living, the taxes and the excesses. I am also aware enough to know that much of the current middle class squeeze is caused in part by rising food costs, energy costs, housing costs, health care costs and stagnating wages. A problem that seems to be replicated over a large swath of the nation. Add me to the crowd that thinks that the US is in for a shock of monumental proportions. Borrow and spend policies and the governments insistance on putting on a show of prosperity at all costs have practically bancrupted the country. I’m not in the mood for spin and games about one stupid tax limit on the one still solvent program the nation has.

    Our problems run a lot deeper than that, and I’d like to see a slightly more serious approach than the usual tug at heartstrings, put people at fear kind of garbage that has swilled around for years.

  310. kettle1 says:


    hows goes it at the office? I am curious about the house you are talking about, could you e-mail me the address?

  311. njpatient says:

    “You forgot that $100k NJ income equals to something like $50k in Idaho (and $70k in Texas) because of local taxes and house prices.”

    Brilliant explanation of why SS is so much worse there than here, jamil.

  312. Punch My Ticket says:


    Just in from mowing.

    I singlehandledly moved you from 6th place to 4th. Now keep yourself there.

    (You can vote for more than one blog. I gave both grim and you each about 20 just now. The wonders of DHCP.)

  313. Punch My Ticket says:

    Reminds me of the old days with the ward heelers in Chicago.

  314. njpatient says:

    299 curmudgeon

    “You’re killing me. Are you some angry 15 year old kid, or what? Take a deep breath and try to gather your thoughts.”

    Nah – just a free republic reader who wanders in here to share is Savage Weiner wisdom.
    He originally arrived on this site spewing a passionate hatred of immigrants under the name of “jamil hussein” (the pen name says plenty on its own).

  315. jamil says:

    njpatient: Are you even vaguely aware of the differences between immigrant and illegal?

    I know the concepts are difficult to understand but seek help and you may someday understand what the word illegal means. I’m an immigrant, and naturally, I don’t have anything against other (legal) immigrants. It is only the illegals (who commit identity fraud, and cause hospitals and schools to be overcrowded and demand all sort of taxpayer funded services) that I’m strongly against.

  316. Sapiens says:

    BILL BUCKLER:The American Social Revolution Ahead:

    At some point, Americans will start to realise the reality of this debt morass. They will try to count their own individual assets and, at that point, a national panic will take place. Today most Americans have more personal, household and other liabilities than they have assets. Once this sinks in, the US will be at the trigger-line of a social revolution because the physical assets Americans do have control over will, to most, become a life and death matter. To be stripped of them – as so many Americans are now being stripped of their houses – will mean to be left destitute in the street with nowhere to go. It has happened before. It happened during the 1930s when agents of bankers showed up to sell a farm they had repossessed. On the day of the auction, other farmers walked and rode up. They all had guns in their hands. The auction began and there were no bids. Finally, a younger man stood forward and offered one Dollar for the property. Silence. The agents for the bank tried to leave, only to find that they could not. The other farmers were still there and some raised their guns. Another long silence. Then the top man from the bank accepted the one Dollar bid and that one Dollar was handed over to be followed by a bill of sale. The younger man then handed another Dollar to the first farmer and all he said was that the other farmer could pay it back when he was able. The farm changed hands again and, entirely legally, the farm was back in the legal ownership of the original owner with no debts owing. The agents of the bank left in their cars in a cloud of dust. For a long way, they could see men and boys with guns along the roads. At the farm, the other farmers left one by one and went home. There had been no violence, nobody had died. But there would have been dead men if this had not happened and all the men there knew it, the farmers as well as the bank’s agents. This happened many times in the 1930s but the history of it has died in silence. In future, when the truth dawns on millions of Americans that the Federal Government is BROKE and unable to pay them what it has promised, the stage is set for streets and cities in chaos as Americans rise in rage and in fear.

  317. jamil says:

    #318 njpatient:

    “Brilliant explanation of why SS is so much worse there than here, jamil.”

    njpatient: How did you pass LSAT, if you can’t comprehend anything? I didn’t claim SS is so much worse there than here.

  318. Sybarite says:


    Sent email to your gmail.

  319. Clotpoll says:

    lost (311)-

    Not even worth repeating. Mostly gibberish about my career as a 6% shakedown artist coming to an end.

    It was so pathetic, I just deleted it.

    Funny…Ducky seems to have found a home at HP. I guess water finds its own level.

  320. Clotpoll says:

    punch (319)-

    The way this should go is that Grim wins, going away…and I edge out the HP douchebag.

    Vote for Grim!

    And thanks, Punch, for your nefarious efforts.

  321. lostinny says:

    326 Clot
    He’s a moron. Your career is coming to an end because he bought an overpriced POS he can’t get rid of. Priceless.

  322. njpatient says:

    “I know the concepts are difficult to understand”

    Speak for yourself. Don’t assume that your inability to understand something indicates that others have the same problem.

  323. njpatient says:

    “njpatient: How did you pass LSAT, if you can’t comprehend anything? I didn’t claim SS is so much worse there than here.”

    That was the meaning of the words you used (even though you intended to imply the opposite). Facts are stubborn things, jamil. Social Security is a regressive tax, which means it hits lower income individuals (and lower income states) harder than higher income ones. Therefore, when you point out that income in state X is lower than state Y, you are necessarily pointing out that SS falls more heavily on state X’s residents than on state Y’s.

    By the way, the LSAT is not a pass/fail test, although I can see why you might not be able to comprehend the ability to “pass” any given test.

  324. bairen says:


    I cruised through Branchburg a few times last week on my way to New Hope and Flemington.

    Looks nice from 202 but are there decent paying jobs in the area?

  325. jamil says:

    #329 njpatient: You said “He originally arrived on this site spewing a passionate hatred of immigrants ”

    This is blatantly false. I have never said anything like that. It means you are a liar.

    btw, do you understand the difference between an immigrant and illegal alien?

  326. njpatient says:

    I don’t feel like data mining on blackberry on a Saturday evening. I’ll re-post some of your original anti-immigrant screeds on Monday if you’re still interested in exercising your memory.

  327. grim says:


  328. Sybarite says:


    Not sure what your definition of “decent” is, but there are several biotech/pharma companies on that strip.

    I work on Rt 202 in Branchburg, actually. Although I’m not at 6 figures yet, there are many there who are.

  329. jamil says:

    #333 njpatient: uh..Good luck with your data mining. Why would I – an immigrant, married to a former immigrant – have anything against immigrants? I love immigrants.

    I would deport every illegal alien without exceptions, but they are certainly not immigrants.

    You are a liar.

  330. stu says:


    What’s the difference between a Republican and a Democrat?

    A Democrat taxes and spends, while a Republican borrows and spends. And in the case of Reagan and Bush 1 and 2, it is borrow and borrow and borrow and borrow and borrow and spend, spend, spend, and spend.

    Face the facts, Bin Laden was correct in 2003 when he said he need not attack America again. He knew the moron in chief would destroy our country without Bin’s help. And guess what Jamil, he appears to be succeeding.

    Now remind me again why we are caught in a quagmire in Iraq?

    Obama could have a tattoo of a swastika on one arm and a “kill whitey” on the other and I still wouldn’t pull the trigger for McCane.

    So who are you trying to convert over here?

    Oh, and the cost of the increase in the SS tax limits are a drop in the bucket compared to the cost of the farce known as homeland security. Turn of FOX and turn on your brain for a change.

  331. jamil says:

    #337: stu.
    In case you haven’t noticed. Things are now pretty good in Iraq. Al-Qaida is largely defeated there and (more importantly) rejected by iraqis. Arab world saw what AQ is like and didn’t like it, after all. Iranian Rev Guards/sadrists got trounced by Iraqi Army in Basra and Sadr city. Anyway, this is off-topic (unlike taxes).

    Raising the SS cap means you pay easily extra 3-6k per year in NJ. If this is peanuts to you, great. Btw, homeland security costs are minimal (and I would say, pretty important).

  332. jmacdaddio says:

    323 –

    People in today’s society are too lazy to rise up and do anything about well…. anything. Also in most places there is no community to speak of. I don’t see transplants to NC, FL, or AZ banding together to keep each other under a roof once foreclosures hit full steam.

  333. firestormik says:

    Looks like capitulation :)

    (UPDATE) We´re destined to lose to NJ. Not that it´s a real contest anyway with any deadline or rules, and sponsored by REIC lending whores, but still, NJ? Aren´t there 49 other states and 195 other countries chock full of HPers?

  334. Occasional lurker says:

    I would deport every illegal alien without exceptions, but they are certainly not immigrants.


    Illegals more closely follow the colonist model than the immigrant model. Colonists proved disastrous to the original peoples of N. America. This lesson is lost on the decedents of those colonists.

  335. Clotpoll says:

    bairen (331)-


  336. Clotpoll says:

    lost (328)-

    The ultimate in pretzel logic.

    Now, Duck is trying to post at my blog. Good thing I have a moderation queue; his latest stuff is Beavis-level stupid.

  337. Clotpoll says:

    jamil (336)-

    “I would deport every illegal alien without exceptions…”

    Why do I get the feeling you’d be the first person whining here after we kick out all the illegals, and lettuce is $8 a head?

  338. Frank says:

    1. You can loose sooner than the sale date, how about when you try to get a HE line of credit and you get denied?
    2. He clearly state 5-yr time horizon and 5br/3.5+ba.

    So please, back off.

  339. Clotpoll says:

    jamil (338)-

    “In case you haven’t noticed. Things are now pretty good in Iraq.”

    Oh, that’s rich. We walk in, squander billions of dollars, kill hundreds of thousands of people, turn a country upside-down, manage to capture a paper-mache dictator and his kids, take years to restore the situation to a kind of bombed-out status quo…and you call this improvement? Liberation? Shame on you.

    It’s telling that the pro-war set is willing to set the bar as low as needed to now be able to pronounce our endless war a “success”.

    It is doubly telling that there are people in this country that buy this line of total bullshit.

  340. Frank says:

    Has anyone been to the shore lately? Do you see the effect of $4 gas?

  341. Clotpoll says:

    Frank (345)-

    Please try to communicate in English.

  342. jamil says:

    #344: clot

    Well, I would not. You can count on that.

    lettuce is $8 a head?

    from center of immigration studies:
    “Labor costs comprise only 6 percent of the price consumers pay for fresh produce. Thus, if farm wages were allowed to rise 40 percent, and if all the costs were passed on to consumers, the cost to the average household would be only about $8 a year”

    Anyway, the real cost in lettuce is paid by taxpayers (through hospitals, schools, medicaid, bilingual services, crime etc).

    AZ and some counties elsewhere have adopted strict illegal policies. They have been great success ie illegals are self-deporting themselves in droves. This will save billions.

  343. Clotpoll says:

    Frank (345)-

    Why would a brand-new homeowner need a HELOC? Anyway, in our brave new world, good homeowners have made substantial DPs, so getting a HELOC- even while the market declines- should be no big whoop.

    BTW, HEL rates have never been better; and the qualification process is a breeze, compared to getting a mortgage. Any creditworthy owner in NJ- with adequate equity- should be able to borrow at around 4.5% on a 5/1, I/O HEL.

  344. lisoosh says:

    With construction at a standstill and the economy tanking, the illegals have dropped to a trickle and many are already leaving.

    The debate is becoming irrelevant.

  345. Clotpoll says:

    jamil (349)-

    Nice straw man there. The problem isn’t the cost-of-labor…it’s the fact that we have so few people willing to harvest produce, many crops rot in the fields. When you can’t get adequate supply to market, prices rise.

    Kick out the few people left willing to do this work, and you will see your lettuce at $8 a head.

    BTW, the leaders you probably love the most in this country are the ones most responsible for promulgating illegal entry and exploitation of the people who do it.

  346. njpatient says:

    “Raising the SS cap means you pay easily extra 3-6k per year in NJ”

    Unless you are a couple earning $100K each (that’s $200K, jamil, put down the calculator), in which case you pay an extra 0 per year.

  347. Frank says:

    Can you get a HELOC with 120 LTV?

  348. Frank says:

    Are you Karl Rove is disguise?

  349. jamil says:

    “The debate is becoming irrelevant.”

    Hardly. Maybe 3% are leaving the country (that still leaves >20 million illegals sucking taxpayer funds).

    “BTW, the leaders you probably love the most in this country are the ones most responsible”

    Yes, many republicans – esp Bush and McCain – are pro-illegals (because of big business and misplaced belief that they might one day vote for reps if they are pro-illegal) but dems are even worse (because of big business, and cheap votes). Anyway, this is the main reason I can’t stand McCain.

    it’s the fact that we have so few people willing to harvest produce, many crops rot in the fields.

    This is bogus argument (e.g. mechanization works well in other countries). In anycase, that is not a reason to let illegals in (and let taxpayers to pay for everything).

    Farm Labor Shortages: How Real?

  350. Laughing all the way says:

    Has anyone been to the shore lately? Do you see the effect of $4 gas?

    Yup. drove to LBI last weekend. But we’re coming from Bucks County, so it was only about 1.5-2 hrs, which wasn’t bad at all.

    Wife has a good gig in sales where she doesn’t have to pay for gas, and i work from home and dont have to drive often, so it hasn’t really affected us yet.

    But the gas station closest to us has gone up about $1 in the two months we’ve been there. It was at 4.19, i believe, on Friday.

    Mid-town Manhattan Exxon: 4.39

  351. Sean says:

    Jamil re: Iraq.

    Take a look at the body count you won’t find on mainstream news. The violence is going on strong, but the “mainstream” news is not reporting it. Deaths of American soldiers are down because of a few different reasons, better armor, more patrols from the locals but things there are anything but good for the average Iraqi citizen.

  352. bairen says:

    #342 Thanks Clot.

  353. firestormik says:

    I was told it’s now impossible to get medicaid insurance for a US born child in NJ if the parents are illegal here. If it’s true it’s alone would save millions.

  354. jamil says:


    Please give a source. This is highly unlikely. (Besides, they are US citizens, not illegals, so that can’t be legal).

  355. njpatient says:

    350 jamil

    Wow – what a fact free post – the king of unsubstantiated assertions, unattributed quotations and bogus statistics

  356. jamil says:

    #362: njpatient

    You were shown to be a blatant liar. You accused me of something I would never do and you did not even bother to apologize. This tells a lot about you.

    (and the link to stats was mentioned in #349 and given in #356).

  357. dinra says:


    Any idea if this town house in Denville got sold? if so, SP?

  358. grim says:

    Still UC, ant. closing date is 06/15

  359. dinra says:


  360. njpatient says:

    How about I send you a waaahmbulance?

  361. Clotpoll says:

    Frank (354)-

    Uh, no.

    Do you have an intelligent question to ask?

  362. jamil says:

    367: njpatient:

    So, you a pathetic liar and a coward. What a surprise. Do you always lie or is just in anonymous boards?

    Seriously, if you apologize, I’m willing to let it go.

    It is pretty bad to say “He originally arrived on this site spewing a passionate hatred of immigrants”. This is a blatant lie.

  363. Clotpoll says:

    jamil (356)-

    I’m not advocating for unfettered illegal immigration. My point really is that it’s a much more complex issue than any of us are willing to admit, and our whole fix-it-now, sound-bite method of public discourse provides little in the way of solution and a lot in the addition of tedious and simple-minded demagoguery to an already-vexing topic.

  364. Clotpoll says:

    jamil (356)-

    If mechanization was the panacea for the harvest of all produce, why are crops rotting in the field in CA for lack of people to do hand-harvesting?

    Can you point me to a machine that harvests strawberries?

  365. jamil says:

    371: Where are they rotting in the field (at least in large-scale) ?

    Cheap labor of course is preferred way if you can outsource real costs to taxpayers but this is just not acceptable (to taxpayers). Mechanization is already increasingly happening (it works well in other countries) – and it is large part of the solution. The CIS study (see link in 356) talks about this in more detail.
    In anycase, about 95% of illegals in this country are not harvesting.

  366. Sean says:

    Jamil is correct to a point there are only about 1 million part time (150 days a year) jobs for those that work to harvest crops manually, the other large percentage work in other jobs at much higher rates of pay.

    Demand brought them here, and they aren’t leaving in enough numbers to consider it a reversal of their illegal immigration.

    I would be in favor of better border control and allowing these workers who aren’t leaving anytime soon to get temporary visas and pay taxes.

    We need the tax money that is for sure.

  367. jamil says:

    btw, from the CIS study linked above:

    “Up to half of the nation’s head lettuce is now sold in bags, which prompted Salinas-based Ramsey Highlander to develop a machine that cuts heads of lettuce and eliminates the wrapper leaves. It moves through fields harvesting an acre an hour and eliminating 75 percent of the workers who now harvest lettuce by hand.

  368. firestormik says:

    RE: Sean Says
    Denial of medical service for illegals would be much better solution. >30K for the child being born US citizen?? come on !

  369. Sean says:

    re: (375) Firestormik

    Sure we could neuter them first too right?

    They should pay their fair share of taxes like the last 10 generations of immigrants.

  370. jamil says:

    Naturally, emergency medical help must be provided to everybody, but AZ and several counties have passed laws (upheld by Supreme Court) that deny non-emergency medical help, and other taxpayer funded services from illegals. This is reasonable, and it works well. Illegals are leaving AZ in droves. It is really good deal for taxpayers.

    NJ could do the same and save billions (and get reduced crime rates and congestion, and less crowded schools and hospitals in return).

  371. Clotpoll says:

    jamil (377)-

    How do you suggest we conduct the big round-up? Pack ’em into rail cars?

    Please elaborate.

  372. schlivo says:

    Grim wins!!!

  373. galgon says:

    Its 1201 an it looks like voting is still active.

    I am unable to vote for grim again due to the ip address issue but I gave clot a bump without a problem.

    Maybe the contest continues until someone at the FHA remembers that this contest is going on.

  374. njrebear says:

    Is it 12 PST?

  375. PeaceNow says:

    I’ve posted this before…… Many—if not most—illegal immigrants do pay taxes. In fact, if they’ve ‘appropriated’ or ‘invented’ an SS number, they’re paying taxes that they will never recoup.

    RE: NJ taxes. (which I’ve also posted about before) Our state income tax rates are sooooo skewed toward benefitting the wealthy. One tax rate for salaries between 100 and 500K? Yeah, that’s totally appropriate.

  376. njpatient says:


    You keep citing CIS.

    Let’s get a few things straight about CIS:

    1) It’s a spin-off of FAIR. See
    2) One of FAIR’s main goals is “to set legal immigration at the lowest feasible levels” (legal immigrants, that is). See
    3) The head of CIS is Mike Krikorian, who has stated that “Immigration is incompatible with modern society”. See
    4) “Let’s be clear,” wrote Frank Sharry of the National Immigration Forum, “CIS was birthed by FAIR, the militant anti-immigration group. The CIS executive director moved from FAIR to CIS to head up the organization. Although now independent, the two organizations share the same basic agenda: an American version of what in Europe is called ‘zero immigration.'” See
    5) CIS has also been critiqued as being part of a network of anti-immigrant groups that cater to a white supremacist constituency by right-wing economic libertarians. See
    6) “CIS, FAIR, NumbersUSA, ProjectUSA-and more than a half-dozen similar groups that Republicans have become disturbingly comfortable with-were founded or funded (or both) by John Tanton. In addition to trying to stop immigration to the U.S., appropriate population control measures for Dr. Tanton and his network include promoting China’s one-child policy, sterilizing Third World women, and wider use of RU-486.” See

    I could go on (I haven’t even bothered to start in on everything the Southern Poverty Law Center has dug up on these people) but I think we all know what kind of an organization it is that you turn to for your “statistics”.

    You pretend that you’re only concern is illegal immigrants, a position for which there are pros and cons, but the gang you’re in bed with wants all immigrants gone. ALL.

    But perhaps you didn’t know that CIS is a thinly veiled supremacist organization.

    Well, now you know.

  377. njpatient says:

    The following is in several parts so you can get all the links.

  378. njpatient says:


    You keep citing CIS.

    Let’s get a few things straight about CIS:

    1) It’s a spin-off of FAIR. See


  379. njpatient says:

    2) One of FAIR’s main goals is “to set legal immigration at the lowest feasible levels” (legal immigrants, that is). See


  380. njpatient says:

    3) The head of CIS is Mike Krikorian (originally of FAIR), who has stated that “Immigration is incompatible with modern society”. See

  381. PeaceNow says:

    Oh yeah, and by and large illegal immigrants haven’t defaulted on mortgages and gone into foreclosure, thus increasing the “legal” residents’ local tax burdens.

  382. njpatient says:

    4) “Let’s be clear,” wrote Frank Sharry of the National Immigration Forum, “CIS was birthed by FAIR, the militant anti-immigration group. The CIS executive director moved from FAIR to CIS to head up the organization. Although now independent, the two organizations share the same basic agenda: an American version of what in Europe is called ‘zero immigration.’” See


  383. njpatient says:

    5) CIS has also been critiqued as being part of a network of anti-immigrant groups that cater to a white supremacist constituency by right-wing economic libertarians. See


  384. njpatient says:

    6) “CIS, FAIR, NumbersUSA, ProjectUSA-and more than a half-dozen similar groups that Republicans have become disturbingly comfortable with-were founded or funded (or both) by John Tanton. In addition to trying to stop immigration to the U.S., appropriate population control measures for Dr. Tanton and his network include promoting China’s one-child policy, sterilizing Third World women, and wider use of RU-486.” See

    I could go on (I haven’t even bothered to start in on everything the Southern Poverty Law Center has dug up on these people) but I think we all know what kind of an organization it is that you turn to for your “statistics”.

    You pretend that you’re only concern is illegal immigrants, a position for which there are pros and cons, but the gang you’re in bed with wants all immigrants gone. ALL.

    But perhaps you didn’t know that CIS is a thinly veiled supremacist organization that wants to eliminate ALL immigration.

    Well, now you know, and given that you’re an immigrant who objects only to illegal immigration, I’m sure you’ll want to end your association with them.

  385. grim says:

    Maybe the contest continues until someone at the FHA remembers that this contest is going on.

    I have the same feeling. The mortgage company that owns that site is based in MO, so central time I assume.

  386. njpatient says:

    It’s gotta end reasonably soon:

    “we will announce the winners on June 1st.”

  387. njpatient says:

    jamil – give me a different link if I’m wrong, but I believe that this is the first time you ever showed up in the comment thread at nrereport, and it doesn’t appear that you had much interest in real estate from day one:
    You were already carrying water for the fever-swamp lunatics at FAIR, however, in your very first post.

    If you want to leave a different impression than that you hate legal immigrants, you shouldn’t be climbing into the metaphorical bed with people who want to eliminate them completely.

  388. njpatient says:

    regarding the prize for second place, FHA had this to say:

    “we will announce the whiners on June 1st.”

  389. njpatient says:

    grim – sorry I missed your mail – a bit out of the ordinary.

  390. jmacdaddio says:

    Speaking of illegal immigration, the easiest way to push HP Keith’s buttons is to go on his site and tell him you support amnesty, free healthcare, and free Harvard tuition for undocumented residents and their dependents.

  391. kettle1 says:

    So in the start of this thread we were debating 10K in property taxes and whether they were to high etc.

    here is my response, enjoy.

  392. njpatient says:

    great stuff as usual
    enjoyed reading it
    And that is thoroughly on topic, as far as I’m concerned. Property tax, and the projected tax trajectory will be major considerations for me when I buy.

  393. 40% off Peak says:

    “Has anyone been to the shore lately? Do you see the effect of $4 gas?”



    Who gives a s*it about $4.00 gas? The only question is whether to take delivery or roll over to next month.

    One minute there’s no recession, the roads are packed, then they are empty[$4 gas], Monday the malls will be jammed, Tuesday, they’ll be barren, Wednesday they’ll be laying off on WS, Thursday they’ll be hiring in NJ. Who gives a f#ck? We are at the beginning of the biggest bust ever. 1990 recession, 1979 stagflation will prove to be minor league’s compared to this baby.

    Bottom line, you bought at the peak. Keep analyzing your right and left flank. It’s meaningless, you’re screwed for at least 10 years. Hope that couch is comfortable.

  394. 40% off Peak says:


    There’s a bad moon rising;

    Now wait until the dolts, DC, pin the CFTC to the wall and rule that pension plans, hedge funds and money mangers can no longer be declared hedgers. OOPS, position limits and margins will rear its ugly head. That loophole, swaps in crude, will be dead as a tax decrease in Jersey. It may be peak oil, that doesn/t mean that may be a vicious sell off on the horizon.

    Buy put spreads.


  395. Punch My Ticket says:

    we will announce the winners on June 1st

    But what year???????

  396. kettle1 says:

    40% how do they determine the # of speculators?

  397. gryffindor says:

    re illegals: I feel like I am encountering “For English press one. Para espanol, blah blah dos.” much more often these days. The signs at McDonalds all have English at the top and Spanish immediately under it, same goes for Walmart. Maybe it’s a TN thing since there is a large population of Spanish speakers here. I just find it hard to understand the language takeover when my parents were immigrants and had to learn the language, culture, and customs when they got here or else face absolute isolation and abandonment by American society.

    The one thing I have noticed in my tiny dental corner of the healthcare field is that the Hispanic population with no insurance pays their bills in cash and up front when they come in to solve a tooth issue, whereas most other blue collar, white collar, and unemployed patient populations I’ve encountered (mostly in NY) are convinced that someone else needs to be paying for their healthcare. I know there are lots of ER medical dollar abuse stories out there, but the patients I have encountered are mostly appreciative of the care they get and pay for.

  398. jafo says:

    Kettle1 at 406

    I would assume this is determined from the classification of the contract holders. So, 40 percent of holders are non consumers/producers, i.e. banks/funds vs. airlines, refiners, or other industry. This appears to answer my question on long interest in futures market. Speculator holdings also tend to increase demand by actual users, due hoarding in response to initial price increase. This creates a positive feedback loop. Perhapes oil prices are another unstainable system experiencing exponential growth:)

  399. njpatient says:

    I am so very much not a morning person.

    Still only 5 am CST.

  400. Mikeinwaiting says:

    Saw a billboard yesterday 1500 a mon. rental for townhouse in my area 100% towards
    DP. Telling.

  401. njrebear says:

    Which area?

  402. Mikeinwaiting says:

    On the real state of employment. My sil company has cut down to a 4 day 32 hour work week. They are` in NJ. Details are a little sketchy but will affect all but upper level management & customer service.
    Also of course the big guys secretaries. Don’t like it, hit the road. We just lost 1 job for every 5 people. It will not be counted as such. So much for the UP rate.

  403. Mikeinwaiting says:

    njrebear The sign is on Rte 94 between 15 & 23 in Sussex county. I believe it is for new townhouse complex built just down the road. I will slow down & get you more info if you interested. I believe they are in Hardyston Township. Towns run crazy up here.Some stretch for miles with little towns inside them go figure.

  404. Frank says:

    Intelligent person would understand that you do NOT need to sell your house to feel the effect of declining home prices, but your little brain can’t comprehend this much. Try another insult instead pal.

  405. kettle1 says:


    recent oil prices are showing characteristics of exponential growth….

  406. kettle1 says:

    Sign of the times????

    this past week, i saw an escalada with a magnetic pizza shop sign stuck to the roof, delivering pizza. I also saw an infiniti doing the same thing. both were fairly new and each was in a different area.

    former Bear Stearns employees perhaps???

  407. kettle1 says:


    the rate of consumption of oil has also shown exponential behavior ( constant rate increase)

  408. New in NJ says:

    I found this little gem over at ‘burbia:

  409. Clotpoll says:

    Frank (413)-

    Until you actually sell your house, any “loss” or “gain” is theoretical in nature. Of course, being unable to extract equity due to paper losses is an exception.

    One of the things that makes RE an asset class that differs from others is that you live in your investment. Were this not the case, the logical conclusion to your prior argument would be that the only time one should purchase a home is at the bottom of a collapsed market. During any other market phase, the purchaser would face too great a risk of “losing” money in the early years of his RE investment.

    Many bubble blog posters enjoy drawing comparisons between RE and dotcom stocks. This is a specious argument, because RE values follow a predictable cycle, and there are multiple, slow-moving national markets. A stock like once it has cratered- never comes back. There is a huge difference in result between holding when it went onto the pink sheets (never to return) and holding onto your house through a RE downturn.

    Frank, there is a difference between paper loss and real loss. Try to borrow some IQ points and figure it out.

  410. jamil says:

    381 clotpoll: “How do you suggest we conduct the big round-up? Pack ‘em into rail cars?”

    For example, passing laws similar to AZ’s and Prince William county’s recent laws. Illegals will self-deport themselves.

    385: “Many—if not most—illegal immigrants do pay taxes. In fact, if they’ve ‘appropriated’ or ‘invented’ an SS number, they’re paying taxes that they will never recoup.”

    Uh..Most work under the table and pay little or no taxes.
    Recent Senate Amnesty attempt specifically demanded that they get SS credit for those funds.

    386 njpatient:
    “You keep citing CIS.
    Let’s get a few things straight about CIS:
    1) It’s a spin-off of FAI”

    Do you deny the facts in the study? Similar studies are done elsewhere. I’m sure your ultraliberal sources define all right-of-M.Moore organizations dangerous right-wing cults. Your guilt-by-association theory is ludicrous Similarly, if you support Barack Obama, you must be supporting the anti-american racists at Trinity Church or the domestic terrorists (Ayers etc).

    Njpatient: You are a pathetic liar. I have never said anything against immigrants. The cost of illegals to NJ is enormous. Not just your taxdollars, but the overcrowding and crime. I’ll leave shoddy construction work to another day.

    Anyway, it is a nice day outside so I’m off today.

  411. lostinny says:

    415 Kettle
    About 3 weeks ago I saw a guy driving a white BMW delivering pizza. I thought it was a neighbor’s boyfriend. I literally couldn’t stop staring. :)

  412. Confused In NJ says:

    There is a lot to be said for Escapism. Target has Season 1-3 of Happy Days for $19.99 each. I find that each night I can transport myself to a world where people spoke plain English, went to Church, married people of the opposite sex and preserved the species, and really meant “I Like Ike”. Also, Gas was .23, and they slept on non chemically toxic mattresses.

  413. Frank says:

    Since we got to the border in a rail car ( The Beast), may as well leave in it.

  414. willwork4beer says:

    Glad to see people are still voting for Grim. They said the winner would be announced today, but they didn’t say when the contest would end. I think they’re gonna take it to the wire hoping that the “Eva Nash Realty Florida Living Blog” will catch up…

    They’re still taking votes. So please vote for Grim.

  415. Laurie says:

    Richinnnj/Laurie (275),

    “The house was purchased in 2001 for $690,000
    56 days on the market. Updated a few windows and the kitchen.”
    They did not update the kitchen at all.
    “Another 5 bd, 3 1/2 bath on the same street sold for $920k in 3/2007.”
    Then in a huge rain storm they had MAJOR flooding in the basement of that house…

    “Three 4 bedrooms on the same street sold for between $955k and $964k in 2006.”

    Furthur down the street where the sreet becomes a cul de sac… also built by another builder that had a much better rep

    “There’s a 4 bed, 2 1/2 bath available on the same street as well for $750k.”
    It’s a TIRED house in need of well..everything. Altho the owners are the nicest people and they work so hard on that house (but alas they spend no $$)That particular split would show MUCH better if they pulled up the RED carpet all thru the first floor …esp since there are hardwood floors underneath.

    All told the listing agent in this area really knows how to get top $$$ for a house…I should know as she was the listing agent on our house. She gets the deal done. The last house to close is a SWEET colonial all fixed up and it closed a a cool million.

    In any case, I wouldn’t call “Prices holding in NW Bergen County!!!!” over one house in Mahwah that will probably sell below the last comp.

    OK OK perhaps my title was a bit off and full disclosure I must tell ou that there is a house across the street from # that has ben on the mkt for 126 months and has had a 100k price reduction and NO offers. it is a POS tho and 150k overpriced when it hit the mkt in Feb of 07…also the split down the street from # is tired and in need of everything being updated. Props to the R/E agent…that woman gets top dollar for her propertis and a almost always completes thr sale. She was the listing agent on the hose wwe live in now and she is legend around these parts…

  416. Laurie says:

    Sorry for the long post with all the typos..maybe i need more coffee.

  417. Laurie says:

    OH Good Lord…that was 16 months on the mkt not 126..

  418. kettle1 says:


    economies have been based on exponential growth for thousands of years and there is a well documented cycle or a society using its resources at an exponential rate and then collapsing once key resources falter. the only difference in our society is that we have much better technology for extracting resources and can therefore use significantly more. that fact in no way precludes us from the same fate if we do not learn to manage growth in a linear (sustainable) manner.

    I wonder how you classify financial news when its a good thing that a companies YOY growth rate is negative. That would be interesting….
    and in todays news GE is down 2% on news that its annual report shows positive growth from last year

    for those more mathematically inclined, when i speak of the YOY rate of growth being negative, i am actually referring to the second derivative being negative ( i.e negative growth acceleration)

  419. njpatient says:

    428 ket

    Reminds me – I’ve been meaning to check how the economy of Easter Island is doing.

  420. jafo says:


    I wasn’t challenging your assertion on economic growth. I also understand you were refering to second derivative. My comment was that perhapes the price growth as an element of Montclair school budget to it:)

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