Least Affordable: NY Metro Area

Good News: Housing affordability is improving!

Bad News: Not for you! *

* NY Metro Area HOI came in at 10.6, better than the mid-single digit figures that were set during the peak of the bubble. However, we’re still a far way off from the 30-50% ranges seen pre-bubble.

From Wells Fargo/National Association of Homebuilders:


With home prices decreasing and interest rates holding at historically low levels, the number of potential home buyers nationwide who can afford to buy new and existing homes has reached the highest level in more than four years, according to the National Association of Home Builders/Wells Fargo Housing Opportunity Index (HOI) released today.

According to the third-quarter HOI readings, 56.1 percent of all new and existing homes that were sold were affordable to families earning the national median income of $61,500, far more than the 40.4 percent of families who could afford homes at the peak of the housing boom.

“If there is a silver lining to this crisis, it would be that some housing markets have become more affordable with a larger inventory to choose from,” said NAHB Chairman Sandy Dunn, a home builder from Point Pleasant, W.Va. “But this is undeniably a crisis and Congress needs to act on housing stimulus to get the market moving again.”

The two most affordable major housing markets in the country during the third quarter of the year were Indianapolis, Ind., and Youngstown, Ohio, according to the HOI. In both Indianapolis and Youngstown, 91.0 percent of homes sold in the third quarter were affordable to families earning the areas’ median household incomes of $65,100 and $52,000, respectively.

New York-White Plains-Wayne, N.Y.-N.J., was the nation’s least affordable major housing market for the second consecutive quarter. In the New York market, 10.6 percent of the new and existing homes sold during the third quarter were affordable to those earning the area’s median family income of $63,000.

Other major metro areas at the bottom of the housing affordability chart included San Francisco-San Mateo-Redwood City, Calif.; Nassau-Suffolk, N.Y.; Los Angeles-Long Beach-Glendale, Calif.; and Miami-Miami Beach- Kendall, Fla., in that order.

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113 Responses to Least Affordable: NY Metro Area

  1. lisoosh says:


  2. grim says:

    From CNBC:

    US Has Been in Recession Since Spring: Fed Survey

    The U.S. economy fell into recession last spring and will contract sharply this quarter as more than 200,000 workers per month are added to the rolls of the unemployed, a survey said Monday.

  3. Stu says:

    “New York-White Plains-Wayne, N.Y.-N.J., was the nation’s least affordable major housing market for the second consecutive quarter.”

    Really? ;)

  4. grim says:

    Kudos, what a great business model.

    From Bloomberg:

    Lincoln, Aegon May Buy S&Ls With `Unsafe’ Practices to Get Aid

    Four of the world’s biggest insurers may acquire small banks that regulators have cited for improper practices to improve their own chances of getting cash from the $700 billion U.S. government bailout fund.

    “It’s perverse,” said Jason Arnold, a San Francisco-based analyst at RBC Capital Markets. “Almost anyone can buy a thrift. At a certain point, regulators will have to put a stop to it.”

  5. kettle1 says:

    why are we bailing out GM???

    current GM capacity is 17 million vehicles annually, while sales have dropped to an annual rate of only 10 million. Sales are going to go even lower, Sub 5K? so who is going to buy the remaining 7 – 12 million cars?

  6. Clotpoll says:

    grim (4)-

    Zombie shotgun weddings.

  7. JBJB says:

    I keep telling my realtor that prices in NJ and Monmouth Co. are still way out of line with avergae incomes and she looks at me like I am speaking chinese. At least she has stopped saying that “prices around here never go down”.

  8. bklynhawk says:

    Hey, question for RE folks on the board. Is it possible to put in a bid on a house in attorney review?

  9. grim says:



  10. grim says:

    From Reuters:

    Trader shoots himself at Brazil financial exchange

    A Brazilian trader shot himself on Monday in the open outcry pit of Sao Paulo’s commodities and futures exchange in an apparent suicide attempt, the exchange said.

  11. Victorian says:

    Paulson has finished looting.

    Bush Administration Said to Not Seek Remaining Bailout Funds

    By Alison Vekshin

    Nov. 17 (Bloomberg) — The Bush administration will not seek the $350 billion remaining as part of the $700 billion financial-rescue package, leaving it to the next administration to request the funds, a person familiar with the matter said.

  12. Victorian says:

    In light of this, what happens to all the people who just turned themselves into banks?

    No soup for them?

  13. Stu says:

    There should be some sort of penalty attached to the companies converting to S&L status to obtain TARP dollars. Perhaps the executives at these companies must set aside a portion of their compensation into a pseudo trust fund that will only be paid out if the company survives after accessing the TARP. If they still fail, then that compensation (although not nearly as large as the TARP dollars) would be returned to the taxpayers. Without such an incentive, the TARP becomes nothing more than a tax-payer subsidized blank check.

    Paulson is a complete doofus.

    Can’t we just do bankruptcy the way it was always done? I guess not as the FDIC does not have the reserves to bail out all of the failed banks.

    This TARP is amounting to nothing more than camouflage of an insolvent FDIC. The whole house of cards falls when our foreign debt is called in. If there is anything the Republicans should be praised for, it is for the continued super-sized funding of our military. We may need to actual use it for a good defensive cause for a change… to guarantee that our foreign masters don’t call in our debt.

  14. grim says:

    In light of this, what happens to all the people who just turned themselves into banks?

    Divestiture of the recently-acquired regulatory-burdened appendage.

  15. John says:

    Stu there is a deadline to apply and the 350 billion is about done. The next admin will change the rules. No one in these parts should complain as NY/NJ has an unusually large amounts of companies that profited from the TARP and all those companies pay NY and/or NJ taxes so we made out.

  16. grim says:

    Would have been easier to just let the quasi-bankers line up on Wall Street and hand out the TARP capital in a game of Red Light Green Light.

  17. NJGator says:

    Hell hath no fury:

    Both lose in aborted home sale
    Would-be buyer publicizes man’s immigrant status

    Associated Press

    Monday, November 17, 2008

    Like all illegal immigrants, Lorenzo Jimenez knew the knock on the door from immigration agents could come at any time.
    Still, he had enough faith in the American dream to buy a house, even though signing the papers meant raising the risk: He put his 2-year-old, American-born daughter’s name and Social Security number on the title.

    And it worked, for a while. Jimenez and his family lived happily enough for several years alongside “regular” metro Atlanta citizens in Roswell.

    Nicole Griffin’s mom lived a few doors away, and when Griffin visited, she said, her kids played with the Jimenez children. When Jimenez put his four-bedroom, two-bathroom home up for sale last spring, wanting more space, Griffin was immediately interested.

    A contract was negotiated but when the sale appeared to go sour, Griffin raised a new issue: that she was a citizen and Jimenez wasn’t. She told local media, immigration officials, his boss and others that he was here illegally. She even put signs in the yard of the house exposing his residency status.

    As a result, agents came knocking last month, and now Jimenez is fighting to keep from being deported. He also lost his job.


  18. Clotpoll says:

    gator (18)-

    That lady’s a moron. She should’ve blackmailed him.

  19. kettle1 says:


    “A Brazilian trader shot himself on Monday in the open outcry pit of Sao Paulo’s commodities and futures exchange in an apparent suicide attempt, the exchange said.”

    attempt? suicide by eating a bullet is pretty hard to mess up………

    can we nest html code in comments?

  20. rhymingrealtor says:


    From 164 last thread. I have not gotten a moving violation/speeding ticket in just over 30 years,but I don’t follow your method. I am just slow as He*L (-:


  21. kettle1 says:


    ….Now consider Citigroup. It has $2.05 trillion of assets listed on its balance sheet. That includes $63 billion of “goodwill and intangibles,” worthless assets like Fannie’s DTAs. Contrast this with the company’s equity of $151 billion, which would include $25 billion from TARP. That implies a leverage ratio of 14x, not 10x as the bank would have you believe when it publishes its “Tier 1? capital ratio. Remove goodwill and intangibles from assets and equity and you have a true leverage ratio of 23x. = ($2.05 trillion – $63 billion) / ($151 billion – $63 billion). That’s roughly the same calculation we did to get to Fannie’s true leverage ratio of 100x.

  22. Stu says:


    For a change, we did make out. But I think the larger issue here is that we just wasted another 300 billion and the economy is really no better off than it was prior to TARP. It seems like every single program proposed by Bernanke, Paulson and the rest of the federal government is actually hurting their credibility more than it is helping our economy. If the economy is truly suffering from a crisis of confidence (a complete crock of poo) then boldy making mistakes with tax payers dollars is not going to help.

    There is one issue here at play. Housing values!!! You can not manipulate them and banks ain’t going to lend until they have a clue as to what their balance sheets are really worth. Until the bottom is in place, everything that government is doing is just delaying our trip to the bottom. And it is a costly delay in that we don’t know how much opportunity cost is lost by slowing it down.

    You can’t kill a cock roach with a fly swatter!

  23. Stu says:

    Grim…unmod 23 please ;)

  24. kettle1 says:

    Senator Shelby Opposes $25 Billion to Aid Automakers

    U.S. automakers should not get $25 billion in proposed federal loans to save them from possible bankruptcy, Senator Richard Shelby, the top Republican on the Banking Committee, said. “Companies fail every day and others take their place,” Shelby said on CBS’s “Face the Nation” today. “There’s not a bank in this country that would loan a dollar to these companies.”

    Shelby’s opposition could complicate the already-difficult prospect of passing legislation this year to aid General Motors Corp., Ford Motor Co. and Chrysler Corp. When Congress reconvenes this week for a lame-duck session, it will contend with different bailout proposals from Senate and House Democrats as well as the Bush administration. Shelby and other Republicans could prevent the Democrats from getting the 60 votes needed in the 100-member chamber to bring the measure to a vote. Last month he failed to rally enough lawmakers to defeat the $700 billion financial industry rescue measure. Democrats control the Senate with a 51-49 majority.


  25. kettle1 says:

    this is now just a sick joke….

    Auto-parts makers are requesting access to the government’s $700 billion financial-industry rescue fund


  26. Clotpoll says:

    tard (20)-

    Are you with me on the idea of putting a giant fence around Michigan?

  27. Clotpoll says:

    vodka (27)-

    If they let the auto parts industry in, next it’ll be the dirty-water hot dog people.

  28. JBJB says:

    “There is one issue here at play. Housing values!!! You can not manipulate them and banks ain’t going to lend until they have a clue as to what their balance sheets are really worth. Until the bottom is in place, everything that government is doing is just delaying our trip to the bottom. And it is a costly delay in that we don’t know how much opportunity cost is lost by slowing it down.”


  29. Stu says:

    “this is now just a sick joke….”

    You didn’t hear Kettle1? Delphi just acquired the First National bank of West Bumphuck.

  30. NJGator says:

    Not to mention how much could have been done with $300 billion instead of just lighting a match to it.

  31. kettle1 says:

    NOOOO, not GS….

    Goldman Targeted by Investor Complaints of Naked Short-Selling

    Investors in the $591 billion high- yield, high-risk loan market are accusing Goldman Sachs Group Inc. of naked short selling to profit from record price declines. At least two fund managers complained verbally to officials of the Loan Syndications and Trading Association, saying they believe Goldman helped drive down prices by using the technique, according to people with knowledge of the objections. New York- based Goldman is acting against its clients by trying to profit at their expense, the investors said.


  32. Stu says:

    Down goes Goldman.

  33. hughesrep says:


    Not a fence, a concrete wall, And then fill it with water.

    Muck Fichigan

    Go Bucks

  34. Clotpoll says:

    3:45. Market is now open.

  35. max says:

    how about a fence around New Jersey,, well you could start with Trenton and Camden,,,

  36. kettle1 says:


    “He (corzine) agreed that the main effect of turning a partnership into a corporation was to transfer the financial risk to the shareholders,” Lewis writes. “When things go wrong, it’s their problem,” he quotes the former exec as saying. “It’s laissez-faire until you’re in deep (S-word).” Which is what we’re in now. Wall Street is shedding jobs like a golden retriever shakes off water. Those jobs were the engine of the New Jersey economy. Sales tax and income tax revenues are expected to drop by more than a billion dollars next year. That’s bad enough. But the killer is what happened to the state pension fund. It lost 10 percent of its value in September, and indications are it may have lost even more in October, though that hasn’t been reported yet.

    To put that in perspective, consider that Corzine had to scrimp and save just to put a mere $1.1 billion into the fund this year. Next year he would have to put in perhaps $15 billion, almost half the budget, just to get us back to where we started this year. And the fund was on shaky ground even then. That’s why Corzine wanted to “securitize” the toll roads back before “securitize” became another S-word. Things may have been bad then, but now the fund is like that lady in the “I’ve fallen and I can’t get up” commercial. Its liabilities are growing so much faster than its assets that the two lines must converge.

  37. Victorian says:

    Didn’t these guys need the $700B like RIGHT NOW? Else, we would all be living in caves?

    Guess it wasn’t that urgent after all.

  38. The Kid says:

    “New York-White Plains-Wayne, N.Y.-N.J., was the nation’s least affordable major housing market for the second consecutive quarter.”

    What are the main reasons for such an honor?

  39. Clotpoll says:

    How could anybody ever- in a million years- think that the way to make money is to trade a strategy that dictates shorting everything in sight @ 3:45 and covering at the closing bell?

    Works like a charm.

  40. rob says:

    “Are you with me on the idea of putting a giant fence around Michigan?”

    It’s a peninsula, should be pretty easy to fence off, eh.

  41. kettle1 says:

    Its absolutely fascinating to observe the level of denial people continue to exhibit at how ugly things are going to get.

    Every insurer around is running to purchase a thrift; Auto parts makes are wrangling for a TARP bailout; entire states are failing; It would take 50% of NJ’s budget to fund the pension fund back to were we started 1 year ago, not even where it is supposed to be….

    This is a very sick and disturbingly amusing black comedy we are living.

  42. Stu says:


    You are completely reckless!!! But I’m happy that it is working for you. Did you back test this mother of all strategies?

  43. Rich says:

    Change will come in Jan.

  44. Clotpoll says:

    stu (44)-

    What’s back testing? ;0

  45. Clotpoll says:

    Stu- I’m gonna ride it until it doesn’t work anymore.

  46. Stu says:


    “Stu- I’m gonna ride it until it doesn’t work anymore.”

    You should come to AC with me someday!

  47. randy says:

    43 Kettle…

    i really have gotten the feeling that it’s all spun completely out of control. these idiots have completely lost control, and they’re holding themselves to the least common denominator. there is no integrity and the term “civil servant” means nothing anymore to politicians.

    it’s pathetic… the system is broken.

  48. John says:

    what % is the dow down since election day?

  49. John says:

    I think it was a scene from Brokeback Mountain?

    Clotpoll Says:
    November 17th, 2008 at 3:58 pm
    stu (44)-

    What’s back testing? ;0

  50. Qwerty says:

    Wells Fargo 30-year-fixed jumbo rates:



  51. greg t says:

    kettle1 Says:
    November 15th, 2008 at 9:12 pm

    i think oil will go below 40. I expect 30 and would not be shocked to see a short dip below that.

    of course oil is wildly undervalued at such prices, but its another victim of the financial collapse and an investment opportunity.

    oil guru –

    if I remember correctly, you weren’t going to be shocked either if oil went over $200 after the beijing olympics.

    at least bi stood by his $40 oil call


  52. grim says:


    8.875% is cheap for a loan amount in excess of $729,750.

    Sub 9-handle for a three quarter of a million dollar loan?

    Not terrible in my book.

  53. John says:

    SIAC the industry utility that is a quasi monopoly told employees today that although they has a good year and have the money available for bonuses they decided it would be prudent to cut bonuses and save cash. Ouch, you can’t win this year.

  54. grim says:

    Oh bother..

    Is this anything like a Dominos delivery guy showing up at the bank HQ at 5pm on a Friday afternoon? “Hey, we didn’t order this.” “Yea, the guys that did will be here any minute now.”

    U.S. Pension Agency Asks GM, Ford, Chrysler for Data on Plans

    The U.S. agency that oversees the pensions of 44 million Americans said it has stepped up its oversight of General Motors Corp., Ford Motor Co. and Chrysler LLC and wants detailed data on their retirement plans.

    The Pension Benefit Guaranty Corp., a quasi-government corporation created by Congress to take over pension programs of bankrupt companies, wants the information in case it becomes responsible for the plans, said spokesman Gary Pastorius.

    “This is pretty much routine” for financially troubled companies with thousands of workers, Pastorius said today in a telephone interview. “We want to be sure we have the latest information.”

  55. grim says:

    Nice to know that the PBGC has no idea what its guaranteeing.

  56. grim says:

    From MarketWatch:

    Paulson says he won’t tap rest of TARP fund now: WSJ

    Paulson wants to keep flexibility for Obama administration

    (Read: Paulson wants to keep his job.)

  57. Clotpoll says:

    grim (57)-

    This is reaching new heights of stupid.

  58. kettle1 says:


    not a guru, its just a hobby.

    I was wrong, it happens. I think it would have come close to 200 if the financial bubble hadnt burst, but thats is neither here nor there.

    Choosing a number and “sticking to it” is a stupid strategy. if you are proven wrong, reassess what you did wrong and correct for it. I significantly underestimated currency effects.

    Its called the scientific method.

    and if we are keeping score i called 150 while Bi popo’d it. so in case that sense we are 1/1

  59. the crazy man in the corner says:

    now its just rediculous!!

    I knew the government was incompetent, but c’mon now!

  60. Clotpoll says:

    I think Paulson backed off the rest of the TARP money after watching Cash n’Carry get bitch-slapped all over the room by Kucinich.

    Even a dope like Kucinich knows that the malfeasance has probably risen to a criminal level. Why would Klink & Co. risk exposure of their dirty little enterprise by going back to Congress to ask permission to rob the country yet again?

  61. Sean says:

    Not quite a jumper, but close enough and I give him extra points for offing himself on the floor of the exchange.


    The next bubble will be bums and suicides.

  62. the crazy man in the corner says:

    speaking TARP – did they appoint anyone to the oversight board yet?

  63. kettle1 says:


    shooting ones self in the chest shows that you either failed biology and are incompetent, or you didnt really want to die.

    desert eagle to the temple and be done with it.

  64. Nicholas says:

    Just letting you know what is happening on the consumer front…

    Capital One sent me a credit card offer in the mail (I already have a Capital One card, but this is a different one I think). The offer was 3.99% APR till 2013 with no balance transfer fees as long as I made 1 purchase every year. No annual fees and 6.99% normal interest rate.

    I just sat there scratching my head trying to wrap my mind around such an offer. I ultimately decided to tear it up and throw it away. Something just doesn’t smell right with all this gubmint money being thrown around into lenders hands.

    I guess this is TARP in action…

  65. sas says:


    This is a crap tag line. The are trying to compare it to the past 4 years. The past 4 years of overvalued prices. Then spun with the word “affordability” to make some of you saps think housing looks attractive.

    News flash blokes, it ain’t.

    This is going to get alot worse, so wipe that smile off your face.

    and if some bloke wants to cry in the corner because he bought too much house, or you got laid off from your job…don’t come to me.

    We all have to pay the piper sometime, and in some way.


  66. ben says:


    “I keep telling my realtor that prices in NJ and Monmouth Co. are still way out of line with avergae incomes and she looks at me like I am speaking chinese. At least she has stopped saying that “prices around here never go down”.”

    don’t worry, my mother was working part time at a certain real estate office in Monmouth County. They cut her hours from 4 hours a week to 2 hours a week. They must really be desperate.

  67. Clotpoll says:

    Nick (66)-

    Take the card, jam it to the limit, then default.

    No big.

  68. sas says:

    “or you got laid off from your job…don’t come to me”

    let me correct myself here:

    you Lemon brothers, Bears Sterns, Citi, Goldmans.

    you guys are, and always were toliet bugs, who thought you were hot to trot.


  69. Nicholas says:

    Oil is trading at 55.05$ a barrel for December delivery.

  70. Clotpoll says:

    But Ben Stein said variable annuities were the best way to go!!!

    NEW YORK (AP) – Shares of the Hartford Financial Services Group Inc. plunged Monday, reversing gains recorded Friday after it said it would buy a thrift and seek government bailout money, as investors fretted about the insurance company’s variable annuity business and amid fears it could face a ratings downgrade.

    Hartford Financial shares fell $2.55, or 20.1 percent, to $10.10 in afternoon trading, on nearly twice normal volume.

    The drop erased a 21 percent gain from Friday’s session after Hartford said it would buy Sanford, Fla.-based Federal Trust Corp. for about $10 billion, and become a thrift holding company. That move would enable it to take part in the federal bailout program, and Hartford Financial said it expects to be eligible for $1.1 billion to $3.4 billion in government bailout money after the buyout.

    Monday’s decline reflected concerns about the insurer’s variable annuity business, which offers policies that have guaranteed minimum payouts or monthly withdrawal benefits. Investors are worried the payout obligations may exceed the amount of capital the company has on hand, due to the plunge in the overall market and Hartford Financials’ own shares this year.

    The stock closed Friday down 85 percent for the year, and 70 percent in the quarter.

    Citi Investment Research analyst Joshua Shanker said some investors may be concerned about the potential for Moody’s Investor Services downgrading Hartford Financial, but he suggested that other insurers face a similar concern, which would reduce the impact of a ratings cut. “We believe that the current stock price is confusing a downgrade with the risk of insolvency,” Shanker wrote.

    Coming up with the proper value for Hartford Financial shares is problematic, the analyst said, but he suggested just the insurer’s property and casualty business is “more valuable than HIG’s current price,” using the company’s New York Stock Exchange ticker symbol.

    Looks like HIG’s entered the zombie zone. For the 3rd or 4th time…

  71. sas says:

    but, to Ray Ray…

    I hear you barking my man.


  72. greg t says:


    nah..no sense keeping score. it would be like keeping score on Cramer. you can either score a point or take a point depending on what episode you watched.

  73. Nicholas says:


    I was tempted to call them and ask if I could move the remainder of my mortgage onto the card, all 165,000$.

  74. sas says:

    I love whipping cookies today in that Goldman parking lot in JC.

    ypu, that was me!

    ha ha ha….



  75. sas says:

    “Oil is trading at 55.05$ a barrel for December delivery”

    I thought we would see $200, before 50.



  76. 3b says:

    #58 grim:(Read: Paulson wants to keep his job.)

    Why, one wonders???

  77. John says:

    Actually when we get our next 50 bps go get a 3.5% 100K home equity and jam it towards your principal on your mortage and watch the bank officer choke.

  78. Sean says:

    What happens if GM, FORD and Crysler go down.


    A full failure of GM,Ford and Chrysler in would lead to 3 million lost US jobs in the auto industry and related industries, cost Americans $398.2 billion in personal income over three years and cost the U.S. government $156.4 billion in lost taxes over the same period.

    I know it stinks, but they should just put conditions on it, new leadership, blow out the equity holders and take them private until they can retool for the next wave.

  79. Nicholas says:


    Yeah thats what I been thinking for the last few months.

    You would think they have been getting a bit more stringent on the home equity lines of credit though?

  80. make money says:

    Treasury gives $33.6 billion to 21 banks
    Second phase of financial rescue plan

    how do I become a bank?

  81. grim says:

    Breaking from the WSJ:

    Sen. Reid unveils bill to aid U.S. car companies

  82. grim says:

    “New York-White Plains-Wayne, N.Y.-N.J., was the nation’s least affordable major housing market for the second consecutive quarter.”

    What are the main reasons for such an honor?

    High median home prices, low median income.

    The HOI number represents the percentage of homes sold in an area that would be affordable for the median income.

    A number of 10.6 indicates that a family bringing in an income near the median would only find 10.6% of the homes in that area affordable. Maybe a more straightforward way of saying it is, only 10.6% of homes are affordable to the median income buyer.

    Numbers closer to 50% are looked at as ideal, which would mean that roughly 50% of the wage earners in an area (median and lower) could afford 50% of the houses.

  83. afe says:

    But Grim (84)- How many times do I have to say it- median income does not matter. What matters is the income of current home buyers, period.

    -(channeling Pret, Richard and a # of other buffoons circa 2007).

  84. afe says:

    Obviously the closer you are to NYC the stronger your market (see real estate in California for an example of this). We are doing fine. Now get back to making those offers y’all.

  85. grim says:

    From Bloomberg:

    Fed `Has Done About as Much as It Can,’ Hoenig Says

    ederal Reserve Bank of Kansas City President Thomas Hoenig said the central bank has “done about as much as it can do” to revive the economy, which has worsened faster than he expected.

    “Interest rates are extremely low,” Hoenig said today in an interview with PBS’s Nightly Business Report. “The fact that we have the recession now is a little bit more than what I had anticipated,” he said in a transcript of an interview provided by the show prior to a scheduled broadcast tonight.

    The Fed has tried to mitigate the worst credit crisis in seven decades by reducing the benchmark interest rate to 1 percent and channeling more than $1 trillion in loans to banks and other financial institutions. Some central bank credit has gone to non-banks, such as insurer American International Group Inc., and U.S. automakers are also seeking federal assistance.

    Policy makers should provide emergency lending programs only to financial institutions that create credit and handle payments, Hoenig said earlier today in a speech in New York.

    “The focus should be on protecting the intermediation process and payments mechanism,” he said. “I would argue for at least drawing a sharp line between banking and commerce, with our discount window only used to fund institutions and markets that play strictly a financial role.”

  86. BC Bob says:

    Here it comes; the race of paper to the bottom. The world will debase. The great currency war is brewing.

    “Nov. 18 (Bloomberg) — Singapore, facing a slump in exports amid a recession, may change its foreign-exchange policy to favor a weakening currency in April or sooner, according to UBS AG.”


  87. yikes says:

    Stu Says:
    November 17th, 2008 at 2:27 pm


    “Since, most people don’t pay taxes most people don’t have a beef.”

    Let’s just say that I use less services than I pay for. The reason most people don’t have a beef is because they don’t have a clue as to what AIG does. See the average Joe makes way under 100K per year and doesn’t really need a bank. To them, a bank is a place to direct deposit ones paycheck and spend it for the next two weeks. Without the bank, they can lose 2% at the local check cashing storefront to cash their check. CDOs and MBSes mean nothing to them. AIG could fall and they could care less. If the banks failed, they would simply go to the check cashing place. Many of them don’t own a home so they don’t need to the bank for a mortgage nor do they have a car loan on their 8-year old Ford Focus. So as to it not costing them anything, you are damn right. It absolutely shouldn’t!

    The greed and ignorance of the top 2% of the wealth holders in this country is astonishing. The only silver lining that will come from the current debacle is that supply side economics will finally be buried. See when the markets crash and consumption dries up, then the wealthy suffer much more than the poor saps. They’ve been making all of their money off of these check to checkers. How are they going to make money now that no one is buying the true cr*p that their firms and factories are producing. The poor guy has such a little distance to fall. He can ride the bus once again. What will the rich guy do? Jump out of a window I hope!

    John, you just got served. Stu’s on fire today …

  88. Outofstater says:

    #35 Columbus: Go south until you smell it; east until you step in it. (Just kidding. Not a UofM fan)

  89. reinvestor101 says:

    Guess what? I’m giving tired of this crap of everyone either getting money or trying to get money while I’m losing money.

    I so mad that I can’t see straight and let me tell you something, I’m going to get even……I’m going to do like everyone else and change into a damn bank. Don’t believe it? Just watch your newspaper for 101st Reinvestor National Bank.

  90. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    (72) Clot
    Ben stein has been drinking the koolaid. He now favors massive bailouts.

  91. bairen says:

    I went to an open house yesterday. The RE agent told me it’s a great time to buy, but lousy to sell. She then kept trying to recruit us as clients.

    The funny part was she was reusing a sign in sheet from an open house last month. Still only 4 signatures on the sheet halfway through open house #2.

    No interest in buying that little ranch with a tiny yard. For an extra 100k we could get a 4 bdr split on 1.5 acres in the same town on a quiet street. (House looked bigger on the web)

  92. kettle1 says:


    now i am being compared to cramer????

    now thats insulting!

  93. sas says:

    why so quiet in here?


  94. kettle1 says:

    everyone is busy doing midnight gardening and canning foods SAS…

  95. sas says:

    “everyone is busy doing midnight gardening and canning foods”

    thats a damn good idea.
    thats what I do.

    along with a few other tricks up my sleeve.

  96. yikes says:

    actually, SAS, everyone was watching another heartwarming episode of gossip girl.

    so funny when the rich guy’s safe was opened, he had three gold bars in there. wife and i laughed.

    went on Trulia and found about 6 foreclosures in my area in Bucks. went to the real estate agent and she said they “aren’t in the system” but must be lose to foreclosing.


  97. sas says:


    here is something you may like…
    works well :)



  98. sas says:

    I’ve got a nice little set of bioptics too.


  99. sas says:

    i know alot of you blokes think I am from the planet Mars.

    but, I think everyone should have some storable food, some water, and a little cash, or silver coins stashed away somewhere.

    One nevers knows.

    I know things never get as bad as people think things will get, but one never knows.


  100. alia says:

    97, kettle: no joke! just got the Ball Complete Book of Home Preserving. (haven’t read it yet. just finished _Urban Homesteading_ and am in the middle of _Toolbox for Sustainable City Living_… can’t wait for the section on reclimating brownfield sites)

    also, picked up my crochet hook and finished a hat for my son. first time i’ve made a hat in ten years… he is so proud of it, too. blush. thank god for four year olds.

    the moms at school pickup are nervous. talking about what we do if the main bread winner gets hurt/is unable to work. not sure we believe our life insurance policies will be honored.

    but, they’re still asking $950k for a two family semi-attached, so everything must be alright, right?

    (don’t have enough of anything to do midnight gardening with. am sticking with seeds. have some nummy seeds to plant, waiting patiently in the back of the fridge. am particularly excited about the tomato and pepper varieties.)

  101. sas says:

    for a bunch of blokes who think out there who think they are cool cause your 28-31,
    you sure are boring me tonight.

    ha ha


  102. sas says:


    home gardening is a good idea.

  103. kettle1 says:



    you can get 3rd gen optics from iraq dirt cheap, if you know anyone over there. they sell the US hardware in the open bazar for peanuts. or so a friend of mine who just got back tells me.

  104. This made me laugh out loud:

    (grim) Would have been easier to just let the quasi-bankers line up on Wall Street and hand out the TARP capital in a game of Red Light Green Light.

  105. chicagofinance says:

    clot: Would you be willing to originate a mortgage for a corpse? It did have an income stream…….

  106. Yikes says:

    wonder how angry paulson and those clowns are to see stories like this on the front of USA today




  107. Sea Isle City Fan says:

    It is encouraging to know that housing affordability is on the rise. I was so glad to get out of my apartment and into my first home, and home ownership is something that all responsible citizen should have a chance to enjoy.

  108. Sal says:

    We moved from Upstate New York on Fall 2005. Since we didn’t know the state or area too well, we decided to rent a house(later we regret our choice of town because of the school ratings). At that time, our Realtor who did our credit score wanted us to buy a house, but we just couldn’t afford. We have been looking at houses since then. Even thou we started to see some nice houses come down on prices, it is 3 times more than where we were(Albany, NY). I hear a rumor that temporally interest rate cuts to 4.5% or less(Is that true?). It is so hard to decided when is to seriously look at houses. Every time we have to sign a new contract with landlord for this house, we hesitate another year of wasting rent money, yet the value of the house declines too much, then I guess we were better off for now. As much as people say the value of the house is declining, the asking price is not that much different. We even told our Realtor to look into this site, their comments were lowball is most likely unlikely. So, let’s say if houses are 30 to 50% overpriced then, lowball any house with 30 to 50% off the asking price? I know it sounds crazy but would it a starting point? Any comment?

  109. I really enjoyed reading your blog page – lots of really interesting information!

  110. GetAClueNJ says:

    Where did the Edison, NJ MSA fall in the rankings?

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