Moody’s: NJ home prices will take 10 years to return to peak

From MarketWatch:

Moody’s bearish on housing recovery

Moody’s Investors Service threw cold water on optimistic projections of a V-shaped recovery in the battered U.S. housing market, predicting it could take more than 10 years to get back to boom-level prices.

“For many reasons, the rebound will be disproportionately small compared to the decline,” Moody’s said this week in its latest outlook on the residential market. “It will take more than a decade to completely recover from the 40% peak-to-trough decline in national home prices.”

The housing market is in the third year of the current downturn, one of the worst corrections in U.S. history as a result of the economic recession and the mortgage industry nearly grinding to a halt during the credit crunch.

“The bursting of the housing bubble precipitated a crisis in financial markets the likes of which have not been seen since the Great Depression and plummeted the nation into recession,” Moody’s said.

“The scars that this downturn will leave on the economy and the housing market will be long lasting and persist in nearly all facets of the housing industry, including the demand for homes, ownership patterns, homebuilding, and house price appreciation,” the analysts forecast.

“It will take more than a decade for many measures of housing activity to regain ground that has been lost as a result of the correction: The intense downturn will overcorrect for the excesses in the housing market generated by the boom years,” they added.

This entry was posted in Economics, Housing Bubble, New Jersey Real Estate. Bookmark the permalink.

174 Responses to Moody’s: NJ home prices will take 10 years to return to peak

  1. grim says:

    From the FDIC:

    First Financial Bank, National Association, Hamilton, Ohio, Assumes All of the Deposits of Irwin Union Bank, F.S.B., Louisville, Kentucky, and Irwin Union Bank and Trust Company, Columbus, Indiana

    Federal and state regulators today closed Irwin Union Bank, F.S.B., Louisville, Kentucky, and Irwin Union Bank and Trust Company, Columbus, Indiana, respectively. The institutions are banking subsidiaries of Irwin Financial Corporation, Columbus, Indiana. The regulators immediately named the Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation (FDIC) as the receiver for the banks. To protect depositors, the FDIC entered into a purchase and assumption agreement with First Financial Bank, National Association, Hamilton, Ohio, to assume all of the deposits of the two banks.

    Irwin Union Bank and Trust Company, Columbus, Indiana, was closed by the Indiana Department of Financial Institutions. As of August 31, 2009, it had total assets of $2.7 billion and total deposits of approximately $2.1 billion. Irwin Union Bank, F.S.B., Louisville, Kentucky, was closed by the Office of Thrift Supervision. As of August 31, 2009, it had total assets of $493 million and total deposits of approximately $441 million.

    The FDIC estimates that the cost to the Deposit Insurance Fund (DIF) for both institutions will be $850 million. First Financial Bank’s acquisition of all the deposits was the “least costly” resolution for the FDIC’s DIF compared to alternatives. The failure of the two institutions brings the nation’s total number this year to 94. This was the first failure of the year in Indiana and Kentucky. The last FDIC-insured institutions closed in the respective states were The Rushville National Bank, Rushville, Indiana, on December 18, 1992, and Future Federal Savings Bank, Louisville, Kentucky, on August 30, 1991.

  2. Here For Now says:

    Too bad. I didn’t agree with Dennis Kneale’s take on the economy, but it was somewhat entertaining (in a freak show kind of way) to watch him single-handedly try to deny the depressing reality of our economic situation:

    Now he’s just another unemployment statistic.

    Farewell Dennis — we hardly knew ye.

  3. grim says:

    From HousingWire:

    FDIC May Borrow from Treasury: Sheila Bair

    A wave of bank failures in 2009 has pressured the Federal Deposit Insurance Corp.’s (FDIC) deposit insurance fund, with regulators shuting down another three banks just one week ago, bringing the running total to 92 failures so far in 2009.

    Last week’s failures will cost the federal deposit insurance fund an estimated $2.02bn. It’s only the latest round of costly failures that have brought industry players to question the overall impact to the FDIC’s insurance fund.

    FDIC chairman Sheila Bair on Friday answered some of those calls, indicating in a post-speech question-and-answer session the agency may consider borrowing from the US Treasury Department to help replenish its insurance fund.

  4. grim says:

    Up to 94 today, with the DIF taking another $850m hit this afternoon.

  5. lostinny says:

    Happy New Years to those celebrating!

  6. lostinny says:

    If you read this, I’m laid up. I’ll fill you in when I speak with you.

  7. grim says:

    From the WSJ:

    FHA Will Tighten Credit Standards

    The Federal Housing Administration, which insures lenders against losses on home mortgages, announced Friday that it would tighten credit requirements but said it has enough reserves to handle expected claims.

    “There will be no taxpayer bailout,” FHA Commissioner David Stevens said.

    The agency confirmed that, as of Sept. 30, it would fall short of a legal requirement that it maintain supplementary reserves of 2% of the loans it insures. Those reserves supplement a fund that provides for projected claims over the next 30 years. The extra capital cushion last year was about 3%, down from 6.4% in 2007. The Washington Post reported Friday that the FHA expected to fall short of the 2% minimum, something outside experts have long said was likely.

    Mr. Stevens said tighter credit standards would suffice to rebuild the cushion to 2% or more, and that the FHA wouldn’t need to raise the premiums borrowers pay or seek an increase in its minimum down-payment requirement of 3.5%.

  8. Essex says:

    I don’t think anything MOODY’s has to say, rate, or analyze is worth a sh*t.

  9. gary says:

    “It will take more than a decade to completely recover from the 40% peak-to-trough decline in national home prices.”

    And you got some f*cking genius who buys a house in Ramsey at 6.8% off list thinking he got a bargain. This is why I gotta wait two more years because of the f*cking yahoos like this who give ammo to the tour guides and juice up fat Mary and Joe into thinking their piss-smelling 3BD/1.5BTH sh1thole is gonna command 589K. We still gotta wait until the last brown M&M is extracted from the bag.

  10. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    Assuming all goes well for us, 10 years is just fine, now that I have an 18 year horizon. I hope to contest my tax assessment and get it down some, and enjoy the one benefit of having lost equity. Until they hike the rates anyway.

  11. Essex says:


  12. kodiak says:

    For anyone that has any followup comments, I left answers at the end of the last thread, to the questions posed to me on the last thread, re: my #253 on that thread…..

  13. crossroads says:

    10 gary
    well said is joe fat too? i agree w/ you. but what i dont get is a guy i worked w/ today cant wait to buy a duplex thinking this will bring him riches. there seems to be plenty of people who still think real estate is a great investment. i think even schiller said the psychology is still strong for housing

  14. stan says:

    BFF- GRim just BFF’d us. Whooo hoooo…..

  15. gary says:

    Can you imagine the field day we’d have if we did an open house GTG on this one? OMG, I’m speechless!

  16. Pat says:

    Gary, I need a moment of silent meditation.

  17. Pat says:

    Gary is speechless and I’m silent.

    CF, now is the end of days.

  18. Pat says:

    In light of Moody’s sudden conservative estimate for home price strength, does anyone want to comment or make an opinion regarding land sales as leading indicators?

    I’ve been watching a whole lot of nothing down here in MD.

  19. ricky_nu says:

    gary – re #16 – that house is easily worth 675k,

    provided there is 400k worth of gold bars buried in the yard.

  20. silenttilnow says:

    So, wait, are you saying that in ten years a pos cape in north arlington is going to worth 450k again. I’ll take two please!

  21. sas says:

    “Najibullah Zazi”

    this guy is being set up and false confessions.


  22. sas says:

    “wait, are you saying that in ten years a pos cape in north arlington is going to worth 450k again. I’ll take two please!”

    so, what will be property taxes in 2 years? what will be the value of your wee dollar?

    this statistic to start off the thread is meaningless. Its going to give some sap hope I guess.

    but, don’t worry. omama will save you.

  23. Happy Camper says:

    Most glad that Irving Kristol has joined hell.

    He truthfully deserves the company of the devil and of Hitler.

    May humanity be better without him and his bastard son.


  24. sas says:

    “Irving Kristol”

    another knucklehead.


  25. Happy Camper says:

    “Irving Kristol”

    another knucklehead.


    Most glad that Irving Kristol has joined hell.

    He truthfully deserves the company of the devil and of Hitler.

    May humanity be better without him and his bastard son.


  26. yo'me says:

    So, wait, are you saying that in ten years a pos cape in north arlington is going to worth 450k again. I’ll take two please!

    New Jersey $170,800 $162,300 $60,200 $23,400 $15,600 $10,408 $4,528
    This how much middian adjusted since 1940 every 10 years

  27. grim says:

    From the NYT:

    First Signs of Recovery

    WHERE do signs of a housing market recovery show up first? In New Jersey, the answer is: in the northern part of the state, in relatively affluent towns, especially those with train stations.

    “Recoveries first take root in what we call the primary markets,” said Jeffrey G. Otteau, a residential market analyst. “These are more desirable markets, but not necessarily those in luxury or high-priced areas. They are close to jobs, and close to trains.”

    There are now 28 towns in the state with an inventory of homes on the market that would take just four months or less to sell, given their current rates of sale, according to the latest Otteau Appraisal Group report.

    Analysts and brokers generally call a market healthy when the inventory can be sold in six months or less. Statewide, the inventory stands at nine months; at the start of the year, according to the data, it was nearly twice that. (Only a relatively small portion of that decline can be ascribed to sellers’ holding off on listing their homes.)

    Seven counties in northern New Jersey have the healthiest markets: Bergen, Essex, Morris, Union, Somerset, Mercer and Middlesex all have inventories of eight months or less.

    The towns with the lowest inventories all lie within those higher-performing counties, except for two: Keyport in Monmouth County, which is one of the first shore towns south of Newark on the Garden State Parkway, and also not far from the busy train station in Woodbridge; and Bordenton Township in Burlington County, on the Delaware River.

    Bergen County is the healthiest — if health is measured by the number of towns with the sparsest inventories. It has eight, based on numbers of signed sales contracts. Essex County has six.

  28. freedy says:

    you see grim:

    its all good

  29. Ellen says:

    I suppose my township would be seen as a recovery too then. In August, 14 houses sold and there are 40 houses listed on for sale. But housing prices here are in a freefall. Prices on the lowest end have come down nearly a 100k and they’re still falling.

  30. Cindy says:

    Last thread – Kettle #260 Thanks for the break down…

    “It’s a good thing Bernanke told us the recession is over….”
    You are so funny….

    I would tend to agree with Gross @ BC’s #319……”It’s time to recognize that things have changed and that they will continue to change for the next – yes, the next ten years and maybe even the next 20 years.”

  31. jamil.hussein says:

    Happy Camper:
    “Most glad that Irving Kristol has joined hell. He truthfully deserves the company of the devil and of Hitler.”

    You must be the most disgusting piece of sh!t on earth. I know you are Marxist and anyone opposing Marxism is “hitler” to you but you are pathetic. I don’t know how you can live with yourself. Celebrating the death of 89 year old intellectual and comparing him to hitler tells a lot about you.

  32. willwork4beer says:

    #28 grim

    “Statewide, the inventory stands at nine months; at the start of the year, according to the data, it was nearly twice that. (Only a relatively small portion of that decline can be ascribed to sellers’ holding off on listing their homes.)”

    So nine months worth of inventory has disappeared in the last nine months because of the incredibly brisk sales pace?

    I call bullsh!t on that one…

  33. yikes says:

    first-time homeowner here … when do you guys shut off the water for the outside so the pipes dont freeze?

    any other tips for ‘winter-proofing’ ?

  34. chicagofinance says:

    After much thorough research, lost footage from the RE/MAX office in Brachburg NJ has been discovered. It appears in the first 30 seconds of this clip…..

  35. yikes says:

    not sure if anyone saw this Friday, but board fav Meredith Whitney was on Good Morning America Friday talking economy …

    glad to see that GMA discovered someone with half a brain. the cheerleaders they regularly have on there are embarrassing

  36. Cindy says:

    California Joblessness Reaches 70-year High

    12.2% – highest point since 1940.

  37. yikes says:

    i’ll say this about fall – there is nothing quite like waking up early to sit on your deck with some OJ and a bagel, listen to the birds chirping amid the tranquility, enjoy a cool breeze, and enjoy your backyard.

    fall is by far the best season in this country.

    is there a place in the world where the weather is fall-like year round? days in the 70s, nights in the 50s?

  38. 3b says:

    Otteau must be right! Look at the gem below. It was for sale for months at 249K, expired, now back on the market at 428K!!! Otteau claims that trains are key, well from this house you can sit on the deck and look down on the train tracks. Hurry hurry, before the price skyrockets to 629K.

  39. chicagofinance says:

    38.yikes says:
    September 19, 2009 at 9:48 am
    is there a place in the world where the weather is fall-like year round? days in the 70s, nights in the 50s?

    San Diego? Maybe add 5 degrees?

    Wait, I thought the summer is too short?

  40. Outofstater says:

    Geeky Baltic Dry Index charts including one with the BDI and gold. Hey, it’s a rainy Saturday so I can’t work outside on my “real estate.”

  41. George Soros says:

    What is Moody’s?

    It’s a mother hyper and dumper in all markets, including stock markets, housing markets, credit markets.

  42. gary says:

    grim [28],

    Talk about a fluff piece and blowing sunshine up the @ss. Upper Haughtyville has 4 to 6 months worth of supply and yet the average DOM for these towns is around 114 days? And I get emails weeks after visiting an open house asking if I’m interested? I thought there was “a lot of interest” in the home, miss tour guide. What a bunch of bullshIt. We are halfway through the 3rd quarter, boys and girls, and anyone who follows football knows that the dynamics of the game change dramatically at that point.

    Just wait, you ain’t seen nothing yet. Option ARMs are just beginning and the only jobs available are on a contract basis and for 30% to 40% less than what one was making previously. C’mon, house cheerleaders, let me see the YOY sales volume! Where did all that so-called inventory go? It got absorbed by the “pant up” demand, right? Sure. Tick… tick… tick… tick…

  43. Morpheus says:

    Well for those of you who said I would not buy a house:

    Once again I agree to a seller’s price and sign a contract. Once again seller delays signing the contract. Once again, seller gets a higher offer and signs that contract.

    I am getting sick and tired of these real estate agents. If the revolution comes, they should be the first against the wall.

    I am so pissed off.

    Looks like I will never own a house. I guess I am not worthy enough to own a house in NJ.

    I even give them the price that they want (after serious negotations) and I still cant get them to sell to me.

    WHAT THE F**K.

    And this house was one that I lost over a small difference in $$$ and it came back on the market.

    screw this: I am going to octoberfest.

  44. chicagofinance says:

    Wall Street Journal
    SEPTEMBER 19, 2009

    Don’t Trip in Your Search for Higher Bond Yields

    The Federal Reserve’s policy of driving interest rates down toward zero may have kept the financial system alive. But it is killing savers, and driving them to do desperate things.

    Nearly 78% of taxable money-market funds, the traditional parking place for savings, are offering 0.1% or less in annualized yield, according to Crane Data LLC, a research firm. On a $10,000 balance, that will earn you a maximum of 83 cents — yes, $0.83 — in monthly interest income. All told, these funds hold $1.3 trillion that will generate a return of just about zilch for the people who worked so hard to save it.

    Is it any wonder that investors are barging into bonds? At Vanguard Group, more than $51 billion has cascaded into bond funds this year. “It’s been like Niagara Falls,” said Vanguard’s head of fixed-income investing, Robert Auwaerter. Industrywide, investors sank over $40 billion into bond funds in August, an all-time high for a single month, and are on pace to break that record again in September.

    That mightn’t be troubling if investors were merely taking baby steps out of money-market funds, whose three-month average maturities minimize the danger of losses if interest rates rise. Remember, rising rates mean falling bond prices.

    Last month, investors put twice as much money into intermediate-term and junk-bond funds as into short-term bond portfolios. As a result, they have exposed themselves to much greater risk from rising rates or falling credit quality. When interest rates go up, as in 1994, investors in longer-term bonds can get slaughtered.

    “People feel they have to choose between the frying pan of zero yields and the fire of risk,” said Crane Data’s president, Peter G. Crane. “And they’re sick of the frying pan, so they’re jumping into the fire.”

    Bonds are safer than stocks. But, at today’s high prices and low yields, bonds are riskier than they were a few months ago. The easiest way to tell is by looking at duration: the change in a bond’s market value when interest rates go up or down by one percentage point. If, for example, you own a bond with a duration of four, then its value will go up about 4% if interest rates fall by a percentage point; the bond will lose about 4% if rates rise by one point. For Treasury bonds, rising interest rates are the main form of risk; for corporate, municipal and other bonds, the financial soundness of the underlying assets raises another kind of risk.

    Duration generally rises in tandem with bond prices, meaning that bonds are now primed to lose even more money if interest rates go up. This is, in short, a dangerous time to chase yield.

    A year ago, according to Barclays Capital, the duration of seven- to 10-year Treasury securities was 7.0; now, it is 7.5. Similarly, the duration on municipal bonds has risen to 8.3 from 8.1. Assuming a $10,000 investment, you will lose roughly $750 on an intermediate-term Treasury note and about $830 on the average tax-free bond if rates rise by one percentage point, up from roughly $700 and $810, respectively, a year ago.

    The rising durations reflect the huge gains in the bond market this year. Municipal bonds have returned 15%, corporate issues almost 17% and junk bonds at least 25%. “The easy money’s been made,” warns Mr. Auwaerter of Vanguard. Treasury bonds, unlike corporates or municipals, can’t gain from an improving economy; if interest rates rise, Treasurys will get hammered.

    The riskiest bonds of all right now are Treasurys. If the economy improves and rates rise, they will get hammered. The longer the bond, the harder the hammering.

    Corporate bonds also will get hurt by rising rates. But an improving economy should narrow the spread between corporate bonds and Treasurys, which will lessen your losses.

    Thus, if you can’t stand the pain of a money-market fund that offers no gain, your best bet is a short-term fund that has significant holdings of corporate bonds. A sensible choice: Vanguard Short-Term Investment-Grade Fund, which yields 2.8% and has a duration of 1.9. Whatever you do, do not chase yield.

  45. 3b says:

    #43 gary: So are you saying you are not interested in the house I showcased at post 39?

  46. gary says:

    Remember when it was contained to subprime? Remember how everyone became so desensitized to sky-rocketing prices and a 500K bilevel was acceptable? It’s happening in reverse now. And if there’s any doubt, just ask yourself the question: who’s been right so far, them or us?

  47. gary says:


    Those sellers are oblivious.

  48. Cindy says:

    Chicago 40 – Headed out for a bike ride on the Clovis Trail in 75 degree weather @ 7:30 AM. Expected to be 100 today.

    Fall and Spring last a nanosecond. It is hot – or it is cold.

  49. Morpheus says:

    on a positive note: This organic ethiopian yirgacheffe coffee is quite delicious!

  50. grim says:


    Sounds like you are doing something that puts you in a position of being shopped.

    Tell you what. Tell your agent to put in offers in Sunday night. 24 hour expiration. Be sure to make the point that you are walking if the house isn’t out of Atty review by Friday.

  51. Outofstater says:

    In other news, several precincts in our county police department have set up a program where people can report abandoned houses and the police will contact the owners and make them take care of them. They have been fairly successful. Someone has cleaned up the foreclosure in our neighborhood.

  52. ruggles says:

    44 – I think the problem is that only about 1% of houses in NJ (maybe less) are worth buying. So if you find one, chances are 3 or 4 other buyers are at least considering it. You need to go after the ugly ducklings, wait to see if the 8k bribe goes away, or move to PA where they don’t have atty review.

  53. Outofstater says:

    #51 I read your post too quickly – I thought you were drinking ethiopian giraffe coffee.

  54. renter says:

    I want to believe Gary but I still hear folks saying many things that make me think the bubble prices wore permanent grooves in the mass publics brains. I think people in general have a great ability to believe they are not affected. My house is so special, my town is so desirable etc. etc.
    My mother-in-law says well why don’t you buy a house with the expectation that your salary will increase? I am thinking to myself….why don’t I put a gun to my head and blow my brains out?!
    My daughter said sometimes it seems that “everyone is rich except us.” This feeling leads to reckless behavior.
    People want to believe they can afford a big beautiful house and a fancy European car just like “everyone else”. They then act on this belief. They believe and they borrow to make it happen. Why? The reality that perhaps we are not that successful is not one people want to accept. The reality that America is inching closer to a master slave economy is not one people want to accept.

  55. Frank says:

    “First Signs of Recovery”

    “inventory of homes on the market that would take just four months or less to sell”

    Where’s the housing recession?? The RE market is on fire. Buy a home now before prices go way up.

  56. gary says:


    They all keep talking and meanwhile, the median sales price is down approximately 16% since peak. Why is that? How does one spin that? What will they be saying in two years from now when it’s 25% from peak and flat thereafter for years on top of inflation? The best money managers have the ability to wait and wait and wait… for as long as it takes for the right opportunity. It would drive most out of their minds, they don’t have the patience or insight to do so. Like the Hyenas in the wild, they will wear down the wildebeest until it drops. 16% off of peak so far… we’ll wait and wear them down until they drop.

  57. renter says:

    I think the Hyena analogy lifted my spirits. Excuse the dark rant….

  58. gary says:


    Your rant is not dark at all, sometimes we see everyone around us seemingly moving foward and we second guess ourselves. I do it constantly but then I gotta step back and toss logic back into it. Let the pack kill themselves up front. When the wreckage is complete, the path will be nice and clear.

  59. renter says:

    Logic works.

  60. Morpheus says:


    Please contribute something useful or SHUT THE F**K UP. At least Re 101 is funny. Where is that rocked ribbed all american? And how do you get “rock ribs”? similar to baby back ribs? Now I am hungry.

    Hey Nom: how goes your homebrewing. Bought john palmer’s book “How to brew”. I thought I knew what I was doing, but he is the master! Highly informative.

  61. Cindy says:

    I love this guy…Ritholtz – video

    6 Simple Ways to Reform Wall Street – Tech Ticker

  62. Morpheus says:

    thanks, I will remember your advice for next time.

  63. lost (7)-

    Gotcha. Tied up ’til Monday.

  64. lostinny says:

    65 Clot
    I’ll email you the brief summary.

  65. chi (35)-

    I’m down with that, except for the eating eyeballs part.

    That must have been one of my agents.

  66. morph (44)-

    Don’t hate the playa, hate the game.

    It’s not the listing agents’ fault; they’re working for the seller. Get yourself a better buyer agent.


  67. morph-

    Why the hell isn’t Grim your agent?

  68. grim says:

    Always pictured Clot’s shop run something like the “leads” scene from Glengarry Glen Ross..

  69. Morpheus says:

    It took us some time to find an agent who was willing to put in the offers we wanted to without saying “don’t you think you are offering too little? You are pre-approved for so much more. Don’t insult the seller.”

    As to grim as the listing agent, I never thought of it.

    However, I must be positive. Two almost signed contracts in about 2 months. Been searching seriously since jan 2008 and off and on before that. There will be other houses.

    At least now the wife has accepted the possibility of renting a house. Before this, she would not even consider the possibility of renting a home.

    We still have about 9-10 months before that decision will have to be made. However, I told the wife she has to do the leg work on the houses. I will only go to see after she has seen the house, it meets with her approval and I have checked out how much seller owes on the mortgage.

  70. Morpheus says:

    grim as the “buyers” agent. worked real late last nite and my little guy decided to get up really early.

  71. Punch My Ticket says:

    “Government life support is crucial, but the patient has an open artery and each new transfusion of blood is just running out onto the floor.”

  72. Punch My Ticket says:

    So how much longer can FHA last, Clot?

  73. still_looking says:


    you ok?


  74. Cindy says:

    70/73 Clot/Grim

    “Put that Knob Creek down. Knob Creek is for closers.”

  75. willwork4beer says:


    You don’t “have to” buy for 9-10 months?

    Forget about the last two, remember that better deals are yet to come, and take Grim’s advice on offers in the future.

    Now go out and enjoy Oktoberfest. ;)

  76. lostinny says:

    76 SL
    I’m emailing you. YOu’ll appreciate this.

  77. gary says:

    I don’t try to reason it any longer; there is no reason or logic behind it. It’s become entertainment and nothing more. Think about it: after putting 20% down, you’re looking at $4300 a month in PITI for this home. You got that?

    As a homeowner, you don’t realize the extra cost factors like when the hot water heater blows up, or when the heat keeps trying to fire up but then goes out, or when the basement sewer line needs to get snaked at 3:00 AM, or when a leak has to get fixed ASAP, or when the new tax bill comes and leaves you gasping for air or the 60 other things that “occur” when you least expect it. If any of you are remotely thinking about putting in a bid, make sure it’s based on a 3.5% increase YOY prior to this riduculous run-up. Put the offer on the table for 48 hours, tell them this is your best and final and then move as the id1ot sellers sulk in their own stupidity.

  78. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [24] happy camper

    Did you have similar bile for William F. Buckley and Jack Kemp when they went to their rewards?

    And who says only conservatives are hateful people?

    Guess we won’t be seeing you in the Nompound. Not that you would want to be seen in the company of anyone who isn’t out on the “progressive” fringe.

  79. Shore Guy says:

    ” yirgacheffe ”

    It sounds Yiddish.

  80. freedy says:

    i cant believe gary. 675k for that dump?

    whats the taxes,, good grief

  81. gary says:

    I’ll give you another example on home ownwership: just closed the pool, an above ground piece of sh1t. Chemicals and maintenance supplies will normally run you about $100 for a little POS pool. But wait, you just discovered a hole in the cover? Run to the pool store and tack on another $115 for a grand total of around $215. That is a small piece that goes with the $4000+ PITI they want you to pay after you fork over 150K in down payment just for the luxury of having your kid sit next to Graydon in his sh1t-stained underwear at The I.B. Snooty school. And that seller in the link I posted above has the brass b@lls to tag that price to that house. I am f*cking pumped up today!

  82. relo says:

    Re: that $680k closing price on the 07446 house. The fact that it was less than 7% off list isn’t the part that puzzles me. It’s the fact that the ask was $729. Hey, they hooked someone, so I guess I’m the idiot.

  83. Barbara says:


    100% Barney house.

  84. Essex says:

    Interesting article in the paper edition of the NY Times today regarding hazing at Millburn High School…aka….Gary’s Snootyville. Sounds like the locals are fed up with it and the principal hasn’t really got a handle on how to handle it.

  85. punch (75)-

    Put it this way: when we started our new office deadpool this week, one of my agents took FHA.

  86. Outofstater says:

    #88 Um, how about a police report, some kids led away in cuffs followed by a couple of nice civil suits?

  87. punch (75)-

    Wanna shoot out of bed like a fcuking Roman candle at 5:30 AM with the energy of an ADD 12 y/o after drinking five Red Bulls?

    Just repeat this to yourself: the only viable mortgage insurer in the United States are you and your taxpaying neighbors.

    Now, get to work. You’ve got at least 10-12 deadbeat losers to support.

  88. Essex says:

    90. I dunno…it is stuff like shoving and “whistle blowing” in people’s face. I am not sure these violation would merit that. What I do know, having grown up in a wealthy area, these kids can be mean as snakes and the intimidation and mind games are very brutal. My two cents.

  89. Essex says:

    That being said, of course people will line up to aspire to live there….just give me a basic middle class neighborhood anytime…even working class in some regards. The rich are evil.

  90. morpheus says:

    will work for beer:

    actually, decided to not to go to octoberfest:

    Decided to drink the honey peach wheat, eat hot chicken wings, kimchi and garlic bread and watch movies.

    Saw transformers with my son. watching Matrix revolutions. After 4 beers with 9.0% ABV, I am feeling fine.

    life is not bad after all.

  91. Outofstater says:

    Not a lawyer but wouldn’t shoving be assault? And aren’t there laws against threats and intimidation? Kids who conspire to make other kids’ lives a living hell should spend some time in orange jumpsuits sampling institutional dining. When will someone stand up against these thugs? Someone has to get the message to their victims that they can safely come forward, perhaps as a group, and the grownups will DO something about it.

  92. morpheus says:

    However, my ability to type and write is sorely limited at this point!

  93. Essex says:

    In the times article the principal stated that this has been going on for years…10 years to be exact. Maybe longer from the sound of it. Sounds like they need new administration there. Shouldn’t be that tough to crack down on a bunch of spoiled brats.

  94. Outofstater says:

    #97 Perhaps the principal should be reminded that bullying played a part in the Columbine massacre. These punk kids might think they are just kidding around but bullying can ruin a kid’s life.

  95. Pat says:

    Bullying issues are tough calls.

    I taught my daughter to stand up for herself.

    Now, she’s getting in trouble. The latest example is during swim practice yesterday, some boy fast slap splashed her as she was doing the fly up to the wall. It was enough to break her stroke.

    She stopped and made a giant tsunami wave with her arm into his face, then turned and headed back across the pool.

    I did not observe this, but as we were heading into the showers, coach grabbed her, bent over and told her that she saw what the boy did, and it was wrong, but it was even worse that she splashed him back, and that next time she better tell the coach and let her deal with it.

    It’s very, very difficult to navigate behavior correction these days.

  96. Essex says:

    sounds more like he was flirting — bullying is much more intense.

  97. Barbara says:

    bullying usually involves ganging up both physically and verbally (gossip/shunning) against someone. Its almost never about just one person being the bully, if it were it would be easier to deal with. Much harder to breakup a group hellbent on making someone else’s life a daily hell.

  98. jon m says:

    Can anyone give me any info on this house njmls# 2930575 thanks in advance

  99. Pat says:

    No, Essex, she’s only 8 and on a
    v e r y competitive team. Parents aren’t permitted on deck, so I don’t know anything but what she told me.

    They were in the exercise of dividing the 40 kids into fast and slow groups for first split- fast get the resources from now until April, not much chance for slow. Slow has to get up at 5 am on Sunday if they want attention. My kid is at a disadvantage. She learned to swim in the ocean of New Jersey. Strong, but slow, she can go forever.

    She’s only 8, and I initially started this swimming thing for exercise to combat the unfortunate genes she received from both her father and from me. She just loves the water. And she was lucky to be born with that extra long muscle under the back blade, so there’s actually a chance for her.

    I’m getting up at 5 tomorrow.

  100. Essex says:

    OK….I swam too. On a team which had two guys who were Olympic tryout types. As a freshman three of them tried to give me a “swirly” where they pick you up and stick your head in the toilet.

    They never got me near the toilet. I fought em off hard. They gave up.

  101. Laurie says:

    RE #104
    Say it out loud..”I am getting an 8 year old up at 4:30 so she can swim.” Really??

  102. Laurie says:

    Opps…I mean #103…

  103. Essex says:

    I ruled the eight and under class at the ol’ country club. Meets were a blast. Outside in the sunshine. Once high school began and the early morning practices engaged I was pretty much bored with the whole scene. Watch it, as Laurie said 4:30 is a little early and you can and might burn her out.

  104. sas says:

    i have an answer to bullies.

    but, its an offline convo.


  105. Pat says:

    I just left her bedroom, she’s asleep. She told me she would be good and brush her teeth AND do her Act AND go to bed if I promised to take her to swimming.

    When I said she loves the water, I meant it. It’s not me doing the pushing.

  106. Essex says:

    SAS….rock on brother. We both have the same answer. And yes, it works. Many a bully became a friend or at least respectful after they had their clock cleaned.

  107. willwork4beer says:

    #94 Morpheus

    9.0 honey peach wheat? Sounds very tasty! As well as fortifying…

    Went to the inlaws for Rosh Hoshanna dinner tonite. Brought some He’Brew – The Chosen Beer for my FIL. He got a big kick out it.

    “Why is this beer different from all other beers?”. LOL

    Anyway, seems like you got my point. Now please try to talk me down the next time I start mixing the kool aid with the hopium.

  108. jamil.hussein says:

    CRA should be repelled for good. It enabled ACORN, and was the first act that forced banks to hand out loans to people with or without a pulse or IDs.

    “Even in the halls of Congress it’s widely known that the sleaze now surfacing in Acorn offices all across the country was first brewed in the Community Reinvestment Act (CRA) of 1977. The legislation aimed to expand minority home ownership in the inner cities. Under CRA’s new rules, banks were forced to go through a costly process of reporting where and to whom they lend money and to show that they don’t discriminate or “red line” in minority communities. When banks need approval for mergers or acquisitions, the legislation gives “community groups” the opportunity to lodge complaints against them, alleging suspect lending practices. If there’s even the appearance of discrimination, federal bank regulators may put the proposed deals on hold.

    The CRA legislation became Acorn’s wedge, allowing it to expand its presence in inner city neighborhoods as a community-based housing group. The organization developed a lucrative niche “advising” banks seeking regulatory approvals on how they could comply with CRA and thus avoid complaints by groups like … Acorn. Major financial institutions like J. P. Morgan & Company and Chase Manhattan, symbols of the capitalist system that Acorn said was the root of all evil, suddenly donated hundreds of thousands of dollars to the self-styled radical organization. If the banks didn’t cooperate, there was always the implied threat that Acorn would lodge a complaint. It was a shakedown operation that made Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton look like amateurs. “The banks knew they are being held up, but they weren’t going to fight over this. They just wrote it off as part of the cost of doing business,” a banking industry insider once told me.

    CRA would have created temptations for abuse of power by even the most scrupulous of community groups. “

  109. chicagofinance says:

    77.Cindy says:
    September 19, 2009 at 1:08 pm
    70/73 Clot/Grim
    “Put that Knob Creek down. Knob Creek is for closers.”

    clot: are you comatose? you blew this off? priceless….

  110. chicagofinance says:

    Went to the Philly Zoo today. Could they possibly do a better job of saying go to fcuking hell and never come back…..the planner who put that together should be drowned in the Camden Aquarium….

  111. chicagofinance says:

    By the way, I’m impressed. The people at the zoo made the humans in WALL-E appear as olympians. The few that were not amorphous blobs were complete hellacious South Jersey white trash.

    Mom with baby carriage smoking some kind of cigarillo… between phlegm gurgling shouts of “….go Ashley [3 year old]…wooooo…you on the party train….”

  112. Heh says:

    Fear not the south Jersey trash. Embrace it. A special breed they are.

  113. SG says:

    Homeowners who ‘strategically default’ on loans a growing problem

    A study shows that people who abruptly and intentionally abandon their mortgages often have high credit scores, in stark contrast with most financially distressed borrowers.

    Research using a massive sample of 24 million individual credit files has found that homeowners with high scores when they apply for a loan are 50% more likely to “strategically default” — abruptly and intentionally pull the plug and abandon the mortgage — compared with lower-scoring borrowers.

    Among researchers’ findings are these eye-openers:

    * The number of strategic defaults is far beyond most industry estimates — 588,000 nationwide during 2008, more than double the total in 2007. They represented 18% of all serious delinquencies that extended for more than 60 days in last year’s fourth quarter.

    * Strategic defaulters often go straight from perfect payment histories to no mortgage payments at all. This is in stark contrast with most financially distressed borrowers, who try to keep paying on their mortgage even after they’ve fallen behind on other accounts.

    * Strategic defaults are heavily concentrated in negative-equity markets where home values zoomed during the boom and have cratered since 2006. In California last year, the number of strategic defaults was 68 times higher than it was in 2005. In Florida it was 46 times higher. In most other parts of the country, defaults were about nine times higher in 2008 than in 2005.

    * Two-thirds of strategic defaulters have only one mortgage — the one they’re walking away from on their primary homes. Individuals who have mortgages on multiple houses also have a higher likelihood of strategic default, but researchers believe that many of these walkaways are from investment properties or second homes.

  114. Ellen says:

    re #117 SG –

    How many of those homeowners tried to get their banks to rework their interest rate or to short sale their house only to be told nothing could be done if their mortgage was current?

    I’m wondering because I was watching Real Estate Intervention the other night and the lady said the bank wouldn’t talk to her unless they missed payments. So that’s what they did.

  115. Essex says:

    When the banks realize you do not give a sh*t about a credit score, they will be very nice to you. Ironic.

    Then again, you only get one shot at that.

  116. Essex says:

    This is why I believe the whole system is screwed for years to come. Stagnation will rule our economy. No one will have decent credit and those who do will be ultra conservative with their purchases.

  117. freedy says:

    the banks only take nice when you are past due ,,, then they call, even then , not much relief, they could care less.

    the only time they want to talk is when
    you tell the, “i dont care anymore”
    or speake to my attorney.

  118. chi (113)-

    Nope. Just watching Barca destroy Atletico.

    Just so you know, I didn’t start drinking whiskey until I was 14.

  119. They have a zoo in Philly? How can you tell where the zoo ends and the city begins?

  120. Ellen (118)-

    Banks are now telling people to miss 2-3 payments, then call back. When the borrowers call back, the banks tell ’em nothing can be done, because their credit’s shot.

    All that time, a competent mortgage broker could’ve done an FHA refi.

    We see 3-4 of these in my office every week since the beginning of Summer.

  121. Welcome to today’s segment of How to Start a Civil War, brought to you by US Gubmint Food Stamps.

    “Let’s say you’re preparing dinner and you realize with dismay that you don’t have any certified organic Tuscan kale. What to do?

    Here’s how Michelle Obama handled this very predicament Thursday afternoon:

    The Secret Service and the D.C. police brought in three dozen vehicles and shut down H Street, Vermont Avenue, two lanes of I Street and an entrance to the McPherson Square Metro station. They swept the area, in front of the Department of Veterans Affairs, with bomb-sniffing dogs and installed magnetometers in the middle of the street, put up barricades to keep pedestrians out, and took positions with binoculars atop trucks. Though the produce stand was only a block or so from the White House, the first lady hopped into her armored limousine and pulled into the market amid the wail of sirens.

    Then, and only then, could Obama purchase her leafy greens. “Now it’s time to buy some food,” she told several hundred people who came to watch. “Let’s shop!”

    The promotion of organic and locally grown food, though an admirable cause, is a risky one for the Obamas, because there’s a fine line between promoting healthful eating and sounding like a snob. The president, when he was a candidate in 2007, got in trouble in Iowa when he asked a crowd, “Anybody gone into Whole Foods lately and see what they charge for arugula?” Iowans didn’t have a Whole Foods.

    For that reason, it’s probably just as well that the first lady didn’t stop by the Endless Summer Harvest tent yesterday. The Virginia farm had a sign offering “tender baby arugula” — hydroponically grown, pesticide free — and $5 for four ounces, which is $20 a pound.

    Obama, in her brief speech to the vendors and patrons, handled the affordability issue by pointing out that people who pay with food stamps would get double the coupon value at the market. Even then, though, it’s hard to imagine somebody using food stamps to buy what the market offered: $19 bison steak from Gunpowder Bison, organic dandelion greens for $12 per pound from Blueberry Hill Vegetables, the Piedmont Reserve cheese from Everson Dairy at $29 a pound. Rounding out the potential shopping cart: $4 for a piece of “walnut dacquoise” from the Praline Bakery, $9 for a jumbo crab cake at Chris’s Marketplace, $8 for a loaf of cranberry-walnut bread and $32 for a bolt of yarn.

    [Michelle] spoke of her own culinary efforts: “There are times when putting together a healthy meal is harder than you might imagine.”

    Particularly when it involves a soundstage, an interpreter for the deaf, three TV satellite trucks and the closing of part of downtown Washington.”

  122. veto that says:

    “When we started our new office deadpool this week, one of my agents took FHA.”

    Clot, They went into my deadpool as soon as they announced that they will not need a taxpayer bailout… which is a total red flag.

  123. veto that says:

    “CRA would have created temptations for abuse of power by even the most scrupulous of community groups.”

    Nice article, I had direct experience with this side of CRA when i was running a division for a regional bank back in 2004. City of Newark pulled out $50 Million of deposits with zero notice and claimed we didnt meet our cra requirements, which was total BS. I had to do a presentation in front of the mayor and council and boy was i scared. It turned into a pentocostal roast, one by one each councilman had their turn. They called our cra officer a ‘token’ while the residents seated behind us we’re randomly shouting ‘Ahmen’ and ‘Haliluea brother’.
    Weeks later, when we sat down with each of the councilmen to state our case, the only thing they could say to us was how we haven’t contributed to their political pac. It was a big scam.
    A year later the feds published our official cra audit score and reiterated that Newarks actions toward our bank were baseless – in so many words. We never got the deposits back.
    Thats just one reason why i’m pleased that CRA gets blamed for helping to nearly collapse the whole financial system.

  124. veto (127)-

    Feh. Wake me when the televised executions begin.

  125. Morpheus says:

    will work for beer:
    OK. I will try to talk you down next time. Meal was very tasty: Homemade beer and home made kimchee go well together. Meal was too salty.

    I looked into my son’s eyes this morning and I realize the reason I continue to subject myself to real estate hell: him. Thus, all this shit is worth it.

  126. veto that says:

    My agent made a good point Friday night as we were looking at a few properties.
    There are two type of sellers right now, those that bought early and those that bought recently. Most of the inventory right now is people who bought 2003-2008 and they cannot sell their properties for less than certain astronomical amounts, so they keep the asking prices inflated until the bank eventually forecloses. The sellers are not always dilusional, out of touch idiots… often they just cant lower their asking prices. The other type of sellers are those who bought pre bubble and they are being more realistic in their pricing.
    I guess this is obvious but i thought it worth repeating.

  127. yo'me says:

    Frank this is your line

    What recession?
    Ignoring the downturn, U.S. telecom leaders AT&T and Verizon have continued to pour billions into their networks in anticipation of a bigger payoff down the line.

  128. DL says:

    Got a phone call early September. A person who was hired to take my job introduced himself wanting to know something about the job and the office. My boss still hasn’t told me. I interviewed for another position and have a verbal commitment. Should know something by the end of the month. Unbelievable.

  129. yo'me says:

    #130 Veto Exactly!!Do you think homeowners would have had the money to update their homes,if not the easy credit during the housing boom?Who has 20k to 30k to spend when savings rate is at zero?And even if i have that money,i will not spend it on upgrades.Just necessary maintenance.
    10 years from now,do you think this over obsession of expensive upgrades still be available to resale older homes without easy credit?Don’t think so.This is what makes homes today desirable.10 years from now,without easy credit,resale homes will not be well maintained.

  130. Cindy says:

    Off on the trail again this AM. I tried riding my old-fashioned Electra to work this past week but the 100 degree weather did me in. Fine to head out @ 6:30 but I came limping home @ 4:30.

    This trail is much more fun and the underpasses make it to where you rarely have to stop for traffic. I love my little town.

  131. jamil.hussein says:

    veto: “Nice article, I had direct experience with this side of CRA when i was running a division for a regional bank back in 2004. City of Newark pulled out $50 Million of”

    That’s good example why Big Government sucks. Last thing this economic crisis needs is further government regulation, courtesy of Chris Dodd, Barney Frank, Charlie Rangel and rest of ACORN.

  132. GerryAdams says:

    Cindy 134-
    Biking\walking\running only paths rule. That is all I expect from township taxes – a good place to exercise without breathing in exhaust fumes. But the price of making something like that now that towns are overdeveloped without any advance planning is over the top. So expect lots of 1/2 trails in weird places rather than a well-planned 13 mile path.

  133. crossroads says:

    130 veto that

    and where is your second type of seller going? buying up? doubt it. so once there out where do they go if they can’t afford what they’re in? rent, parents i would certainly think they’re not buying anytime soon

  134. Fiddy Cents on the Dollar says:

    Where’s Kodiak…

    Your Townhouse question piqued my curiosity. I looked in GSMLS for sales in Spruce Edge since 1/1/2009. I found only 3 closed sales. All units 3 bedrooms, end units, all with updated kitchens and finished basements.

    1- sold in March for $580K
    2- sold in June for $620K
    3- sold in August for $660K
    That $660K is the highest sale EVER in that complex. There is one unit Under Contract, last list price was $699K.

    That’s the range of values. You’ll have to know the differences between the models, like the Birchwood vs the Mountain model.

    There’s only one Active Listing in the complex and it is WAY overpriced.

    Please tell us more about the negotiations. What value did the Bank Appraisal come in with ??

  135. Outofstater says:

    #132 DL – That is so rude. What is it about this downturn that makes people think it’s okay to treat others that way? What goes around comes around. You’re better off out of there. A year or so ago, my neighbor was sent to India for two weeks – to train his replacement. Yup, he lost his job as soon as he came back.

  136. sas says:

    someone remind me again…

    just how did the Soviets take over eastern europe again?


    I love omama.

  137. Frank says:

    Speaking of omama the Soviet.

    How about he asks Corzine not to run? His popularity is even worse.

    “Obama asks New York governor not to run: report”

  138. sean says:

    Water is 70 today and its sunny In spring lake. Off to some open houses.

    Enjoy the day

  139. d2! says:

    Everybody thinks that govt is too big until they need something.

  140. yo'me says:

    What Is Suspicious About China’s Under-valued Currency?

    In an editorial condemning the temporary tariffs on Chinese tires, the NYT comments that China: “maintains its currency at suspiciously low values against the dollar, artificially cheapening the cost of its exports to the United States.” What is “suspicious” in this story?

    China maintains a managed exchange rate which is far below market levels. As a result of keeping down the value of its currency, its exports to the United States are far cheaper than what they would be if the Chinese government did not intervene to keep down the value of its currency.

    This is all pretty much accounting identity stuff. It is true by definition. China does keep down the value of its currency by buying massive amounts of dollars (which the media tell us we desperately need them to do). A lower-valued currency means Chinese imports are cheaper for people in the U.S.

    We know exactly what is going on in this picture. It is bizarre that the NYT feels the need to use a term like “suspicious” or that others refer to “manipulation” of China’s currency. We know the situation — the Chinese are not being sneaky — the only question is how we choose to respond.

    In this case, the NYT feels superior in telling the steelworkers (who pushed for the tariffs) that any relief from the tariffs would be temporary. The steelworkers no doubt understood that the relief from a tariff which phases out over 3 years is temporary.

    Sometimes temporary relief is exactly what is needed. For example, Goldman Sachs and the rest of the big banks benefited enormously from temporary access to loan guarantees from the FDIC and low-cost loans from the Fed. In this case, three years of tariffs may allow thousands of workers the opportunity to finish their working careers and retire with a decent pension and health care. Yes, consumers will pay a bit more for tires, but next to how much we get soaked on health care, who would even notice?

    –Dean Baker

  141. yo'me says:

    Lashmore’s company, Nanocomp Technologies, is the first in the world to make sheets of carbon nanotubes — microscopic tubes stronger than steel but lighter than plastic. The Pentagon has financed much of the Concord, N.H., firm’s work; stakes include the $500 million U.S. market for body and vehicle armor, which is currently dominated by DuPont’s Kevlar.

    In April, Lashmore had a mechanical multicaliber gun shoot bullets at different versions of his sheet, each less than a fifth of an inch thick, at a speed of 1,400 feet per second. Four sheets were breached, but three showed no damage. Lashmore and his 35 employees were ecstatic.

    “We didn’t expect it to work at all,” he admits

  142. Barbara says:

    don’t forget the people who bought prebubble but then refied it all out, they are also a waste of your time.

  143. Barbara says:

    pretty much, the only houses that are reasonably priced are coming from elderly conservative folks who don’t see the value in LV bags and C class “luxury” vehicles. Good luck finding those.

  144. Cindy says:

    Gerry @ 136 – This was RR land. I took off on the Dry Creek Trail today but there were huge thorns on the trail from some tree….thought I’d pop a tire.

    There are lamp posts, drinking fountains and parks along the way – well thought out.

  145. veto that says:

    “and where is your second type of seller going? buying up? doubt it.”

    Crossroads, The second type buyers who bought pre-bubble are usually older, right?
    From my personal experience, they are often looking to retire, move out of state.
    They’re often more willing to lop off $50K off asking price just to get the deal done and move the heck out of dodge.
    At least thats my impression.

  146. veto that says:

    I agree barbara… (149)

  147. Essex says:

    149. That is how I bought….and God bless her!!

  148. Essex says:

    I have been in my place since 2002 and my plan is to be here another 6 years.

  149. Cindy says:

    I bought in 1999 and the only way I’m selling is if I get committed to the old folks home….

    In such iffy financial times, I suppose many feel as I do: Stay put, pay your bills – keep your mouth shut and your head down…. Plow girl – plow.

  150. Essex says:

    I’m not sure about the staying put. We might try living abroad for a few years.

  151. cobbler says:

    yikes [34]
    In case you haven’t got an answer yet: it all depends on what do you have outdoors. If just faucets for the hose it’s very simple – close the indoor shutoff valves, then open the outside faucets. If you’ve got sprinklers – there is a variety of designs, if you don’t have a manual better check with the guy who built or services it. If you’ve got a sump pump, and the plumbing around it had been brought up to the code before the sale – you may have a problem, will need to build a bypass line that would discharge into the sewer when the main discharge into the street or wherever freezes over. Most local codes prohibit it, so you need to build it yourself or invite someone who is NOT a licensed plumber.

  152. grim says:

    Think I just saw a B-17 fly over. What a beautiful plane, man did that thing shine.

  153. yikes says:

    good stuff, cobbler.

    clot, you made an interesting connection between credit and foreclosure.

    what if someone just filed for bankruptcy and is struggling with mortgage payments? Do you think it makes them more or less of a candidate to get help from the mortgage company?

  154. NJCoast says:

    Perfect beach weekend. Azure skies and maybe 30 people on the beach. Poker and martinis at the cabanas- aahhhh!!!!!!

  155. Stu says:

    Cobbler (157): Good advice on the winterization. I would add, If you are going to be away for awhile (Xmas vacation), never turn the heat below 58 and leave a couple of interior sinks with a slight drip drip going. Otherwise, you’ll be just fine Yikes.

  156. Stu says:

    Is Jamil a squirrel? He seems to be obsessed with ACORNs.

  157. confused in NJ says:

    Winterizing if your at home is primarily shutting off inside water hose valves & opening the outside bib valve. More importantly is winterizing if you are going to be away for awhile, e.g. vacation. Plumber can install a water detector shutoff valve which can detect water leakage and shut down the system. When I go away, I shut off main valve manually, put hot water heater in low vacation mode, shut off and drain toilets, and shutoff washing machine valves. This way if heat goes out and pipes freeze, water damage is limited. The Plumber water detector leakage valve eliminates the manual work.

  158. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [127] veto that

    Amen brother. I represented banks and the groups like ACORN used bank applications to shake down banks for “donations.” Jesse Jackson was one of the bigger offenders in this category.

    But it wasn’t just the comm. groups. Even though the rule was that you had to have a satisfactory rating to get any applications approved, the regulators also wanted LMI lending “commitments” in order to pass bank applications. They also shook down banks for commitments in order to settle litigation.

    But remember this Veto; according to the resident board liberals, and Barney Frank, what you and I experienced NEVER HAPPENED.

  159. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [122] cyclonic.

    P*ssies. I was watching the Paramatta Eels destroy the Gold Coast Titans. Some really awesome trys in the 2nd half.

  160. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [112] jamil

    “The CRA legislation became Acorn’s wedge, allowing it to expand its presence in inner city neighborhoods as a community-based housing group. The organization developed a lucrative niche “advising” banks seeking regulatory approvals on how they could comply with CRA and thus avoid complaints by groups like … Acorn. Major financial institutions like J. P. Morgan & Company and Chase Manhattan, symbols of the capitalist system that Acorn said was the root of all evil, suddenly donated hundreds of thousands of dollars to the self-styled radical organization. If the banks didn’t cooperate, there was always the implied threat that Acorn would lodge a complaint. It was a shakedown operation that made Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton look like amateurs. . .”

    Actually, Jesse was no amateur. He shook down Citigroup. And ACORN wasn’t really a major player by 2000. They were deemed a bit too out there, and other groups with a more polished approach, like Greenlining and NCRC filled in.

    On one application, I noticed that a protestor group, La Raza, was also a recipient of a client bank’s largesse. I told the CRA officer and she replied “I saw that. They are gonna get a call from me today.”

    There was some quid pro quo though. The recipient organizations were expected to send comments or testify as to how wonderful the banks were. That put some of them in a bind as all these organizations are quite tight, and have multiple levels of interconnection. For example, one protestor known for being uncompromising is Matthew Lee and his 1 man band, Community on the Move. When a paralegal left my shop to go to work for NCRC, Matthew Lee served on their board. And when Matthew found out where she worked, he had all sorts of questions about . . . Me! Seems I had gotten under his skin.

    Years later I had a sit-down with him. Nice enough guy, but we clearly were on opposite sides. He appreciated it though as apparently my colleagues on the dark side avoided him. I simply treated him like opposing counsel.

  161. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [95] out of stater

    Shoving would constitute battery.

  162. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [93] essex

    According to the DNC, I’m rich (fcuking news to me).

    So it begs the question: Am I evil too, or is it only the folks that are rich by virtue of having a lot of money (and not us “rich by fiat” type)?

    What if I get divorced? Then my household income drops below the “rich” designation. Will I no longer be evil?

  163. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    Tax news of the weekend

    This is an amazing read, and is consistent with some things I have been saying for years.

    And here is the frightening, conspiracy-theory takeaway. Dems want full employment and more home ownership, but were stymied. What would help them meet their goals? Less competition for jobs and lower home prices. And what do we see now?

    No, I don’t think there was a conspiracy to punish dual income homes through taxes, and to drive down home prices by bursting a bubble, but what is happening here actually advances their agenda. Wonder if they figured that out?

  164. cobbler says:

    confused [163] I think what you are describing is a bit of an overkill. If you shut off the main you don’t really need to do anything else – but potentially could have a main burst before your shutoff valve; Stu’s vacation approach is simpler, cheaper and more logical. Also, have in mind that since the house is more or less insulated, for the inside plumbing to freeze you have to have no heat whatsoever AND average (day + night) outside temperature below 28F or so for at least 3-4 days. Unfortunately, we are rarely blessed with vacations allowing this to happen timewise…

  165. scribe says:

    Barbara, #149

    Also, from estate sales where people actually listen to their RE broker – and the broker listens to them – and they price aggressively and realistically to avoid it dragging on.

    PS, my cousins just sold my uncle’s house. They got a firm bid in a week and a half and closed about 3 weeks ago.

  166. Essex says:

    168. Well by some guidelines perhaps…but I am talking about the RICH…the folks with fortunes made on the backs of poor folks.

  167. Essex says:

    or stockholders.

  168. Essex says:

    or taxpayers.

Comments are closed.