NJ tops the list!

From Bloomberg:

New Jersey, New York Taxes Are Worst for Business, Study Says

New Jersey and New York are the worst of the 50 U.S. states for business because of their tax burdens, a study by the Tax Foundation says.

The two ranked 50th and 49th respectively in the analysis of state personal, corporate, sales, property and unemployment- insurance taxes in the year that ended June 30. The study, released today by the Washington, D.C.-based institute, said South Dakota and Wyoming, which have no corporate or individual income taxes, have the best business climates.

As tax receipts fell in the economic recession, U.S. states faced a combined $165 billion shortage in revenue for the fiscal year that started for most on July 1. New Jersey and New York boosted personal tax rates to help close their gaps.

New Jersey’s corporate income tax is an impediment to business because of its low threshold — $100,000 — and because the state doesn’t index corporate brackets for inflation, according to the study.

New Jersey was also among states that enacted “disproportionately high” tax rates on personal income, the study found. Maryland was first to move in that direction in 2007 with a new top rate of 6.35 percent on couples with incomes over $1 million, the study reported.

Property taxes also pulled down the rankings of New Jersey and New York. Residents of New York’s Westchester and Nassau counties, outside New York City, paid the highest property tax bills in 2008, a separate study by the Heritage Foundation, released today, showed. New Jersey’s Hunterdon and Bergen counties were next.

Westchester had the biggest median property tax bill on the U.S. list, at $8,890, the study said. Hunterdon residents paid $8,492.

Among the states, New Jersey ranked first with a $6,320 median property tax bill, said the study, based on U.S. Census Bureau data. States with the lowest median real-estate taxes were Louisiana, $188; Alabama, $383, and West Virginia, $457.

“States with the best tax systems will be the most competitive in attracting new businesses,” Padgitt said in his report. “Companies will locate where they have the greatest competitive advantage.”

This entry was posted in Economics, New Jersey Real Estate, Property Taxes. Bookmark the permalink.

210 Responses to NJ tops the list!

  1. grim says:

    From New Jersey Newsroom:

    Mayflower: More people moving out of New Jersey

    hich of these states would you want to pack up and get out of the fastest?

    Michigan? Nebraska? Maine? New Jersey?

    A study released Tuesday by Mayflower Transit finds that New Jersey ranks behind only Michigan, Nebraska and Maine when it comes to people hiring the moving company to get them out of the state where they’ve lived. Mayflower’s 2008 Customer Service Survey showed the same ranking.

    Nearly 59 percent of Mayflower’s moves during the first eight months of 2009 in New Jersey were to relocate residents out of the state. A total of 868 households hired the company to move out of state while 614 household retained it to move into New Jersey. That’s a loss of 254 households.

  2. freedy says:

    NJ,, been a welfare state for many years now. let them keep coming in.

  3. grim says:

    From CNBC:

    UBS Cuts Almost 200 Jobs in US Division

    Swiss bank UBS, which suffered asset outflows in the second quarter, has cut almost 200 jobs in its U.S. wealth management division, a source familiar with the matter said on Tuesday.

  4. grim says:

    From Bloomberg:

    Harvard, NYU Law Students Left Hanging as Firms Slash Offers

    Many students entering their final year at top law schools including Harvard and New York University haven’t landed the full-time jobs they would normally have claimed by now, firms and school officials said, a reflection of the shrinking demand for legal services.

    The stark reality of the legal marketplace was illustrated by yesterday’s 2010 job offers by Skadden, Arps, Slate, Meagher & Flom LLP, the highest-grossing U.S. law firm. It projected a 50 percent cut in summer hiring, said Howard Ellin, the recruiting partner for Skadden. The firm hired 225 students this summer and plans to hire less than half that for summer 2010.

  5. Duh.

    “#1) How much are home price out of whack with rental prices? (i.e. What does it cost to own vs. rent a similar house? Keep in mind maintenance, property taxes, etc.)

    #2) How much above the trendline growth in price appreciation are home prices selling? (Was there an unexpected or unwarranted acceleration in prices over a number of years?)

    #3) How much have home prices appreciated vs. wages?

    Any of those significantly above their trendline is a huge warning sign. When bubbles burst, prices will not only revert to the mean but overshoot as well.

    Note that housing markets will vary based on availability of jobs, local wages, and amenities. Thus, cities like Vancouver and Toronto will carry premiums just as San Diego, Chicago, and New York do. However, premiums are not unlimited. The desirability of San Diego and Miami did not stop a crash in the US. It will not stop a crash in Vancouver either. Moreover, desirability can change at a moment’s notice as happened in Florida and Las Vegas.”


  6. DL says:

    Study backs up calls to extend homebuyer tax credit

    We’ll be in Montgomery and Bucks 11-25 Oct. If we like the area, it will be our first attempt to buy. Goal is to move by spring at the earliest, fall 2010 at the latest.

  7. Essex says:

    Well folks. I’m rich. OK. I hab money. So with that in mind. Intro: G F C G

    As the son of a son of a sailor
    F C G
    I went out on the sea for adventure
    C G
    expanding the view of the captain and crew
    D G
    like a man just released from indenture

    As a dreamer of dreams and a travelin’ man,
    F C
    I have chalked up many a mile
    C G
    Read dozens of books about heroes and crooks,
    D G
    and I’ve learned much from both of their styles

    F/G C/G G
    Son of a son son of a son sn of a con of a sailor
    F C G
    Son of a gun load the last ton One step a head of the jailer

    Now away in the near furture
    southeast of disorder
    you can shake the hand of the mango man
    as he greets you at the border

    And the lady she hails from trinidad,
    island of the spices
    Salt for you meat and cinamon sweet
    and the rum if for all you dood vices

    Haul the sheet in as we ride on the wind that our
    forefathers harnessed before us

    Hear the bells ring as the tide rigging sings.

    It’s a son of a gun of a chorus

    When it all ends I can’t fathom my friends
    F C G
    If I knew I might toss out my anchor
    C G
    So I’ll cruse a long always searching
    D G
    for song not a lawyer a thief or a banker

    Ending Twice:

    F/G C/G
    but a son of a son son of a son
    — son of a son son of a son
    son of a son of a salior
    son of a son of a salior

    F C
    Son of a gun load the last ton
    The sea’s in my veins; my tradition remains
    one step ahead of the jailer
    I’m just glad I don’t live in a trailer

  8. Dissident HEHEHE says:

    Worst experience of my life: having to go to the DMV the morning after losing my wallet at a Jimmy Buffet concert

  9. gary says:

    Mayflower: More people moving out of New Jersey.

    Meanwhile, I drove past an open house in Ramsey this past weekend. It was a cape with faded maroon siding from 1965 on an elevated lot with that funky vegetation that grows on each side of the stairway leading to the front door because you certainly can’t put grass there unless you want to roll down a 20 foot hill with a lawn mower. In my mind, I could smell the dank of that home from my car. I drove slowly by and decided not to waste my time. It would be a nice starter listed in the upper 3’s which would be a stretch for a working family with 2 kids. I opened the Sunday RE section of the paper in the car to see if I could find it listed as an open house. Sure enough, it was in there. Asking price? $579,000.

  10. Cindy says:


    Statistical snapshot from the 2008 census – Housingwire

    “California homeowners had the highest monthly median housing costs in the country at $2,384. New Jersey narrowly trailed with $2,360. Hawaii with $2,265 and the District of Columbia, at $2,218 followed….”

  11. BC Bob says:


    Which was worse, DMV or Jimmy Buffet?

  12. Dissident HEHEHE says:

    I don’t remember too much of the Jimmy Buffet show.

  13. BC Bob says:

    He [12],

    LOL! DMV with a hangover? That’s nasty.

  14. Cindy says:


    “Congress Takes on Credit Rating Agencies”

    Yeah, yeah, yeah…like I haven’t read this before. Do something already.

  15. Dissident HEHEHE says:


    I got there, got to the front of the line, lady behind desk would not accept my birth certificate because it was a copy, had to drive all the f’n way back home and find the original and drive back.

  16. lostinny says:

    Hey Cindy
    Out of curiosity, if you get hurt at work, does your district have workman’s comp or do you have some other way to handle injuries?

  17. Cindy says:


    From Jesse’s Cafe – Brit on Fast Money –
    Some folks are mad at us…

  18. Cindy says:

    16 – Lost – We have workman’s comp and everyone says – Do whatever you can to avoid it. You were hurt at home, see. Workman’s Comp is unreliable and a run-around – so I hear. I have never needed it.

  19. BC Bob says:

    He [15],

    My experience was worse. I had my birth certificate from JC. DMV stated that it was not valid. I bitched and moaned, asking how could I obtain a passport if my birth certificate was not valid? I can fly around the world, but can’t drive in NJ?

    Back then, JC was the fraud capital of the US. Oh my, have times changed? The birth certificate did not include a raised seal. Bottom line, I had to get a new birth certificate.

  20. Dissident HEHEHE says:


    You were counting on rational behavior from a government worker?

  21. Jimmy Buffett = music for accountants

  22. Cindy says:

    Lost – Have you sustained a work-related injury? Is everything okay?

  23. BC Bob says:


    I was actually shocked they recognized the birth certificate not being valid.

  24. BC (19)-

    You should see the soccer leagues in the NE. Foreign-born kids only have to produce a passport to get a player card.

    Natch, when many people move to the US, they decide to hold back Junior a year or two in school, so they go to their consulate, “declare” an appropriate birthday for him, and voila! A 14 y/o man-child becomes 12!

    My 12 y/o regularly plays against kids who are 6′ tall, shave, and walk off the field with their girlfriends after games.

    We stopped complaining months ago, as absolutely no officials would even listen to challenges on age verification.

    I even got called a racist for asking once. Go figure.

  25. Just remember: ours is the country that made it possible for the most vicious terrorists in history to live amongst us, plot mayhem and commandeer three commercial airliners with virtually no resistance.

    To date, our best security response has been to take liquids away from people getting on planes.

  26. BC Bob says:

    “A 14 y/o man-child becomes 12!”


    Danny Almonte.

  27. leftwing says:

    “Worst experience of my life: having to go to the DMV the morning after losing my wallet at a Jimmy Buffet concert”

    Second only to getting government re-imbursement on healthcare.

    Talk to any nursing home operator. Ever wonder why the sector is dominated by huge chains? The back office needed to deal with government re-imbursement is extraordinary (most residents are on Medicare). It’s so bad it’s driven most of the local operators out of business, they simply can’t afford the overhead.

    The ultimate irony in OCare that would be funny if it weren’t so pathetic: Those high administrative costs at the insurance companies that are to be eliminated to fund this government program? Those costs exist because the the insurance companies have to deal with the government!

  28. lostinny says:

    Email me.

  29. leftwing says:

    Four Under Contracts in Chatham last night. Only one over $1m, which probably closed just under. Other two in the 6/7 ask range and one 200s condo.

    Brave New World.

  30. leftwing says:

    Re: 27.

    Typos. Replace ‘insurance companies’ with ‘providers’.

  31. Cindy says:

    Lost @28 – I just emailed James and asked for an email address…Feel free to do the same.

    I leave for work in about an hour so I may not get back to you until later…

  32. frank says:

    “Mayflower: More people moving out of New Jersey”

    Raise the taxes, get all the losers out of my state, make them move out!!

  33. frank says:

    “Four Under Contracts in Chatham last night.”

    Market is picking up big time, buy now before prices go up.

  34. PGC says:

    #19 BC Bob,

    I was in the main JC post office getting a passport for one of the Rugrats. The teller told us that all passport applications with Birth Certs from Hudson County in a certain date range have to be referred to Trenton. Turns out a registrar was illegally inserting records for cash.


  35. BeachBum says:

    From last night’s thread:

    Fiddy – Checked it out – too rich for my blood at 950K – remember I keep saying “one half of one million dollars”.

    It’s beautiful though! 0.4 to the beach, but for that kind of a house, I’d walk!

    Beach….did you check out 710 3rd Ave in Avon #20922900 ??

  36. homeboken says:

    Vacuum – As someone that personally went through the same type of competition in youth soccer, I give you this advice. Get your kid to embrace it. Getting to play and bang shoulders with kids that are bigger and faster will make your kid a better player. Eventually, they will grow too and not only catch up, they will pass.

    At the time (when I was 12) I thought it was totally unfair. When I got to college and didn’t have to pay any tuition I realized the benefit. Patience.

  37. Will V. says:

    Hey guys, I have been on this board for many years and I just love to read many of your comments but I have not posted much. I need a little advice since I am a first time home buyer.

    I just recently made an offer for a home to purchase at 345K with seller paying 10K of closing on a home asking 350K. The seller accepted. 3.5 weeks later the appraisal came back saying the home is worth 330K. Now I have no money for closing which is why I had made that deal for seller paying closing. what are the chance a seller will take a 15K haircut? I looked at their previous sale at they bought the home for 164K in the year 2000. basement is finished but bathroom and kitchen is not updated. Plus they already closed on a home last week. I am just wondering if people are that closed minded that they will kill the deal with a 15K cut in price, especially when they bought it for half the price they are asking for.

  38. make money says:

    8,438 De Anza Students Can’t Get Needed Classes


    Edumacation bubble is getting there. regardless of who’s at the helm, this is a sure bail out.

  39. Firestormik says:

    Cyclonic Action Vacuum says:
    September 22, 2009 at 10:16 pm
    fire (144)-

    Is there a way we can figure out to keep O drunk all the time?

    What makes you think that drunk was better then O?

  40. BC Bob says:

    PGC [34],

    Things never change in JC.

  41. ruggles says:

    37 – It all depends on who’s most motivated-you or the seller. You may have to walk out the door to find out.

  42. sas says:

    Jimmey Buffet & U2 rock group

    next, you blokes will be watching “Fried Green Tomatoes”

    I’d rather have tickets to Burt Bachrach anyday.

  43. sas says:

    sing it one more time Alfie…


  44. home (36)-

    Absolutely. My kid doesn’t mind playing against size. Against pace and good ball skills…that’s a different story.

    Many of the 14 y/o’s we face are just big, lumbering doofs. They will probably never develop.

  45. Cindy says:


    38 – Make – Canceled classes….
    Could be an urban myth but I heard…

    at Fresno State, there have been students who had all of their scheduled classes canceled so they were dropped from the rolls…. with a waiting list to get in….they were shut out.

    On some level, that seems like it is impossible but when you shut down 1,000 classes, it is plausible.

  46. Sean says:

    re: DMV -Love those homeland security people that now check IDs at the DMV, they look at everyone like they are a terrorist. I have seen a few people picked up by the state police while waiting in line. Pretty funny watching a middle aged woman get cuffed and stuffed over a warrant for an outstanding parking ticket.

  47. Comrade Nom Deplume says:


    I was just about to post this story from BNA, but you beat me to it. Want to get into tax policy?

  48. Cindy says:

    Sean – Does cuffed and “stuffed” mean like when they push on your head to get you to fit into the back seat of the patrol car like they do on TV?

  49. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [7] essex

    I’d leave the singing to Jimmy if I were you.

  50. Cindy says:

    James – Would it be possible to send me Lost’s email per #28? I need to be for work in just a bit – Thanks.

  51. zieba says:

    I have two tickets for Bruce on 9/30 at face value, which I can no longer use. Email me if interested.

  52. zieba says:

    err…post if interested and I will reply with email.

  53. kettle1 says:


    What say you on the following from yesterday???

    September 22, 2009 at 8:40 pm


    A landmark ruling in a recent Kansas Supreme Court case may have given millions of distressed homeowners the legal wedge they need to avoid foreclosure. In Landmark National Bank v. Kesler, 2009 Kan. LEXIS 834, the Kansas Supreme Court held that a nominee company called MERS has no right or standing to bring an action for foreclosure. MERS is an acronym for Mortgage Electronic Registration Systems, a private company that registers mortgages electronically and tracks changes in ownership. The significance of the holding is that if MERS has no standing to foreclose, then nobody has standing to foreclose – on 60 million mortgages.


  54. Veto That says:

    About the ‘education bubble’

    totally disagree with the whole concept. I must be missing something.

    I think we are moving in a direction where bachelors or equivalent will be mandatory for 100% of the population.

    Gone are the days where a hs grad can pick up a hammer and go off to work.

    Future workforce will be skilled. Computers and machines will replace all the repetitive jobs that require little critical thinking.

    Maybe the bubble everyone refers to is in the cost of college, which is obviously too high. Govt will need to step in and subsidize to solve this – and also change endowment rules.

    Also, expensive college campus facilities will eventually be replaced with internet at 10% of the cost. But college and education is the future, not a bubble that is about to burst.

    Especially for NJ, where the demand is enormous. We deny most applicants and send them out of state. We dont have nearly enough room for half of the hs students that this state produces.

  55. Veto That says:

    “I can fly around the world, but can’t drive in NJ?”

    I love this type of guvt beurocracy. Its extremely effective, although i agree not very efficient. But we dont want guvt to be quick on their feet anyway.
    Just think about the line of il-legals that get harrased to no end at the DMV… The system works this way on purpose. If the dmv became more service oriented, pumping out Driver Licenses quicker than value meals at a McDonalds drive through, that would be cause for worry.
    DMV stinks for a good reason. Same reason why it stinks to have shoes removed and scanned before entering onto an airplane.

  56. House Whine says:

    Before 100% of the population attends college we better improve their critical thinking skills, writing ability, and general knowledge base while they are in grades 1 through 12. How this is to be done, given the current framework of public schools, I do not know. As to using the internet instead of a classroom I have yet to be convinced that this will happen.

    Rutgers has the largest enrollment this year as respects its undergrad, grad, and post-grad population in New Brunswick. Class size keeps increasing; dorm space is limited and students are being housed at off-site hotels. This cannot continue without affecting the quality of college education.

  57. BeachBum says:

    House: totally agree

  58. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [54] kettle,

    More of a litigation/standing issue than a regulatory one, but of considerable interest. I will have to review the decision.

    The premise that no one can foreclose is, of course, indefensible. But whether MERS has standing is an issue that will stand, or not stand, on its own merits so I have to read the case.

  59. Zack says:


    I am not going to bother responding because as you say you have been reading this blog for years now. You should know by now how to tackle this situation..
    what’s the matter with you..?

  60. kettle1 says:

    Veto 55

    college bubble.

    we have multiple issues at hand. first is cost. the run up in college costs can be partially attributed to the same cheap money that drove up housing. A huge portion of college tuition was being pulled from home equity. With the housing bubble bursting that equity is no longer a source for tuition. At the same time the credit markets are contracting and access to overall credit is decreasing.

    Also consider that incomes are dropping as tuition increases so the return on a degree s generally dropping ( with exceptions of course)

    A second factor is that a lot of 1st and even some second year college materials could just as well be taught at the highschool level. The failure of the US education system is being compensated for by pushing the educational lag onto the college phase. That is not sustainable.

    An additional factor is that while degree’s are important how many criminal justice / psychology / ethnic studies degrees do we really need? many of the people receiving fluff degree’s would be better off learning a trade that

    In my opinion globalization has also helped inflate the college bubble. As wages for many sectors from carpentry to welder have been leveraged downward people have flooded the college market in an attempt to maintain income levels. The end result is that you actually devalue the average bachelors degree and see a decrease in the skill level of the trades that were hit first such as carpentry,welding etc.

  61. make money says:


    Cost is what I’m refering to. Small private liberal arts schools across the country charging 30K+Room and Board for a BA that will get you a 35K starting salary. These types of schools are toast. They all running deficits and drowning in debt.

    These schools have Academia professors running the schools who have no business acumen. One example…The President of NYIT is an established English professor. Enough said?

  62. Veto That says:

    House, Public schools need improvement but our children are competing for employment against a third world who are starving for food; who study as a means for survival and strive to get phds in from ebay universities, not out of choice but necessity.
    Unless we lower our living standards and create severe consequuences for not killing ourselves in the classroom fundamental change in education isnt going to happen.
    On a side note, class size is meaningless. The europeans figured this out decades ago and have slashed their public education costs as a result.
    Also, you dont need to be convinced about Internet classes taking hold in higher education. Its already happening.

  63. kettle1 says:

    House 56

    I have a family member who works at rutgers. They and many of the professors have been yelling and screaming about the recent actions of the university. The quality of education has already been effected and the staff is very unhappy with the situation.

    The university is playing a numbers game and a losing one at that.

  64. kettle1 says:


    On a side note, class size is meaningless. The europeans figured this out decades ago and have slashed their public education costs as a result.

    I would love to see some data backing that statement up. Most research i have ever come across contradicts that.

    You can counter class size effects with a higher level of parent involvement in the child’s education, but i do not know if that is the case in europe.

    The problem at the moment is that we are all participating in a race to the bottom.

    In the end the result is a negative for everyone, but is a short term gain for corporations. The current form of globalization, and commoditization of education is a path to the lowest common denominator not the highest common denominator.

    It may take a decade or so, but i believe that we are already seeing the beginning of the unraveling of the current flavor of globalization as nation begin to fight for increasingly limited resources, both physical and financial.

  65. Sean says:

    re#61 – Congress and Obama are intent on keeping the education bubble blown up, they are about to start loaning money via new legislation in the works right now.

    My opinion is if we the “taxpayer” are going to go all in and fund trillions in College loans and grants that may have a high default rate then we need to get at least something for our investment.

    2 years of Military Service with no deferments before you get a dime.

  66. Veto That says:

    “how many criminal justice / psychology / ethnic studies degrees do we really need? many of the people receiving fluff degree’s would be better off learning a trade”

    Ket, good points on the home equity/housing bubble link. there was definately a connection there.
    About this idea above, i take an opposite view which fits into our shipping manufacturing overseas. Almost as if we dont want accounting and engineering and technical jobs anymore. We want the third world to do them for half the cost. We want the creative type out of the box thinking jobs that drive new ideas. Im not saying its the right approach but it has become our strategy. its no wonder that the large sweatshop investment banks hire poetry majors from ivy leagues… they dont want a finance major or accounting major who actually knows how to analyze a financial statement. They can buy a computer program to do that for peanuts. Another reason they dont even teach technical topic in the bach degrees at ivy leagues.
    Even the IT industries are providing job growth not so much for technical code punchers and network developers, who come at a dime a dozen from Asia, but now they are looking for art majors who can get creative and build an awesome website theme.

    Make – i see your point on price. i agree those 2nd tier private school models could be tested. And the pace of tuition increases need to come back down to earth but in the end i think that the future demand will be there without problem.

  67. kettle1 says:


    my bachelors (BS eng) cost m 0$ In return for military service.

  68. John says:

    First of all college is just one large holding Pen. There is not academic purpose. Remember, as unemployment peak during the great depression govt. sponsored financial aid was invented. Theory being people worked full time between 18 and 65. If we could delay entry into the workforce four year we would automatically lower unemployment. Ball park taking most of the 18-21 year olds out of unemployment figures lowers unemployment 11%. Imagine the delight of going from 18% unemployment to 7% unemployement by just shoving those kids in a building for four years. There it is. College Professors are not different from day care workes.

  69. Sean says:

    re #67 – kettle1 – more importantly you learned how to blow stuff up.

  70. kettle1 says:



    i probably taught myself about 50% of that knowledge while in highschool. A self directed learned you might say ;)

    Chemistry classes and military training were just finishing school.

  71. Veto That says:

    The real problem in us with k-12 is the parents.

    S/T ratios, funding, teacher quality, etc – practically meaningless. And most here would argue that the schools have too much money, which i would have to agree.

    We expect our children to thrive in a home where the parent has more passion for the nfl than homework and thinks they are being productive by running up their credit card at walmart.

    Mandatory military would be great discipline but the brainwashing could have some drawbacks. The current system of keeping it mandatory for the lower socioeconomic citizens is more effective.

  72. Veto That says:

    “First of all college is just one large holding Pen. There is not academic purpose.”

    John, i dont really agree with this but i was pleased that you wrote a whole paragraph about college and didnt mention s e x education once.

  73. schabadoo says:

    Jimmy Buffett = music for accountants

    With two accountants in the family, I sadly agree.

  74. Danzud says:

    65- You mean indoctrination service. How about we get the privelige of education we’re all entitiled in return to say listening to environmentalists, PETA, ACORN and MSNBC on a weekly basis? Viva Obama!!!!!!

  75. Sean says:

    re: #71 veto – “but the brainwashing could have some drawbacks.”

    And what effect does five hours of watching TV everyday have on the brain?

    Like it or not we need troops, we have allot of conquests ahead of us as a nation, we just started up action in Somalia and the latest Afghanistan report says we need 50k more troops this year alone or we are going to lose to the goat herders.

  76. John says:

    Well we are talking about Rutgers not Hofstra.

    Veto That says:
    September 23, 2009 at 10:49 am
    “First of all college is just one large holding Pen. There is not academic purpose.”

    John, i dont really agree with this but i was pleased that you wrote a whole paragraph about college and didnt mention s e x education once.

  77. John says:

    Veto that is a bunch of BS. When I grew up most of parents were first generation European. There was no HS in most of Europe and parents had and eight grade education and a lot English was a seonc language. Heck when my wife was in Kindergarten her mom only spoke s few words of English. We all did great.

  78. Veto That says:

    “Like it or not we need troops”

    Sean, armed forces recruiting wont be problem once the depression fully takes hold.

  79. Veto That says:

    John, not sure what is bs, but i can only speak about recent EU from what i studied in comparisons to US system. Its may have been different when you were growing up.
    In UK, education is federal service, totally standardized. In US, you cant even compare two hs students from ny to ca unless they both took the sats. I dont want feds controlling our education but Im against our fragmented system. How can you ensure a minimum level of education when you dont even have a standard measurement?

    Also, US is sports and ‘after school activity’ crazy. The kids get out at 3:30 and half the day is recess, gym, soccer, kick ball – its all play time. Most countries in Asia, the kids go to school same as working hours until 5 at night – no summer break. and then they do homework until 9am and go to sleep. Maybe they kick a soccer ball on the way from home to school.
    Its no wonder the american workers see the clock strike 5 and they start shutting down their computers.

  80. kettle1 says:


    .65- You mean indoctrination service.

    That depends on the person. Some swallow it hook line and sinker, others play the game and assimilate what parts of the training they find useful and others just seem to be incompatible and seem to make up a larger portion of the F-ups

    Besides, i would rather have the majority of the population indoctrinated with military training then foxnews.

    Military indoctrination would have the majority of us being cutthroat competitors not fat lazy consumers. Given the choice, i would take the 1st over the second

  81. Veto That says:

    Ket i agree but fox news and military are not mutually exclusive.
    My fil is 20 yr af vet. Fox is music to his ears.

  82. Barbara says:

    6 hours of school is more than enough. I feel like I barely see my kid as it is. Not interested in raising a worker, thinking more along the lines of a human, hopefully one that knows how to be happy.

  83. BklynHawk says:

    OT, Healthcare costs debate. Love to hear thoughts on this one…

    ‘Priceline’ of healthcare lets you bid on services

    William Shatner may not be available, but patients who use a new Web site to negotiate prices with doctors might want to use Shatner’s tactics as “The Negotiator” for Priceline.com.

    PriceDoc.com started in Seattle in April and is set to go national in November, allowing people to name their price for medical, dental, vision and other healthcare services.


  84. Veto That says:

    Babs, i agree. Same with my child. But this is why we are falling behind.
    In asia, the parents and kids work 10 hours a day starting in kindergarden.
    They will eat our children’s dinner.

  85. kettle1 says:

    81 veto,

    true, but i was trying to make a basic simplified comparison without doing a psychoanalysis

  86. Barbara says:

    Not if we kill them first

  87. kettle1 says:

    84 veto

    its another case of lowest common denominator. the only way to win is to not play the game on their terms.

    the solution is quality over quantity.

    A big facet of education issues is directly tied to the globalization circus

  88. Barbara says:

    that should be for 84, veto

  89. Sean says:

    re #87 – I have a friend who is sending his kid to Chinese classes. The kid is two years old.

  90. Secondary Market says:

    from yesterday’s thread regarding cherry hill and your dad’s access to info. do you know of a way to “fact check” homes that are under contract? i’m starting to see a strange correlation to the homes my wife and i are interested immediately going under contract after we view them. (3 times in as many weeks)and my realtor to drive efforts to in house listings w/ long and foster.

  91. Victorian says:

    In asia, the parents and kids work 10 hours a day starting in kindergarden.

    Veto –

    I think you were going for the hyperbole over there, but if not, this is not true. I grew up in Asia and at least during my school years, the school times were similar to what we have over here.

    The only major difference, as far as I can see, is the level of parental involvement. Sports are generally frowned upon(although that is changing now with the advent of endorsement contracts and the visibility of highly successful sportspeople). Education is the only ticket out of poverty/lower class for most households, and the parents make sure that the kids bust their a$$es getting it. They have more fire in their belly than the kids over here.
    I do not like the education system over there because in most schools, rote learning is emphasised over real learning and kids are trained to be drones rather than thinkers. This is one reason why there is hardly any innovative product which comes out of India/China.
    You will see some inventions come out of there due to sheer numbers.

  92. kettle1 says:

    Barb, Sean, Veto

    The education debate in regards to asian seems similar to the coldwar US V Russian Armour problem.

    It was calculated that if the cold war every escalated the russian armor forces would significantly outnumber us in terms of manpower and equipment. The US solution was quality over quantity. We developed highly accurate weapons systems and highly advanced nukes to counter their numbers (Neutron bomb, aka enhanced radiation weapon, was designed to counter superior #’s of russian armor units compared to US forces).

    I am suggesting the same approach could be taken to the education competition between the west and the east.

  93. Veto That says:

    “Asian kids are trained to be drones rather than thinkers.”

    Vict, yep i hear this alot.
    Fits nicely into todays discussion.
    Actually i was kidding with Barbara about the 10 hour kindergarden but the summer thing is true.
    S Korea i hear doesnt do summer school but 95% of the kids do voluntary full time ‘SAT-like’ prep at private schools, where they literally just study to memorize and get better scores on their version of the sat.

  94. Barbara says:

    Secondary, that is very odd and suspicious. Does this realtor know if you need to move right away or are they under the impression that you can tke you time? My Dad is retired and in Fla and I know he keeps up his access membership, I could ask him about it. Also, I think Zillow lists homes that are under contract as such.

  95. A.West says:

    Veto That (79),
    Earlier this year I was shocked, when passing the time on a Sunday afternoon with my 21 yr old niece and her girl friend in Chengdu, China, I saw the elementary school kids leaving class at 5pm! I asked her what the heck was going on, why are kids in school on Sunday afternoon. Maybe it was some sort of supplementary school (English school?). The converse of my daughter going to Chinese school on Sunday in Edison.

    Anyway, all that school time was wasted on my niece, who still couldn’t do well enough on tests to get into any decent school, because she’s kind of dumb and wastes her time text-messaging friends and shopping for trinkets.

    I did find her friend’s habit of slapping her own butt whenever she got excited about something an intriguing local custom that I didn’t investigate further. I did tell them that if they approached foreign tourists to practice their (poor) English as they planned by just walking up and asking if they wanted to spend some time together, they might be perceived as prostitutes.

  96. Secondary Market says:

    yeah its really strange and it sort of dawned on my last night. the 3 homes we were going to bid on were at minimum 80 days on the market and all of a sudden went under contract the day after we viewed them? i’ve followed up on two with her and she said they are still in atty review and has no other info. i know atty is usually just 3 days so it just adds to my suspicions.
    i’ve been completely upfront w/ my intentions and told her we have no time line. if there is a deal to be had, great we can make a move. but if things stay inflated i’ll just wait it out.

  97. make money says:

    College Professors are not different from day care workes.


    Spot on.

  98. Barbara (82)-

    Happy is overrated.

    Gimme hungry and motivated for more any day of the week.

    Happy, you can rent.

  99. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [92] kettle,

    Won’t work. Under “No Child Gets Ahead”, the emphasis will be on the lowest (or slowest) common denominator, not on developing the best and brightest.

    In fact, on the left, there is considerable resistance to favoring and fast-tracking gifted children: It deprives resources that could go to future drones (so that they drone better, I guess), and causes “esteem” issues.

    Better that Julio and Shamequa feel better about themselves than Arvid or Nelson get advanced schooling and educational opportunities. Better that we have a more uniformly-educated population than one of our issue develop a cure for cancer or the next energy innovation.

  100. make money says:

    re #87 – I have a friend who is sending his kid to Chinese classes. The kid is two years old.


    My daughter is 4 yrs old. She’s fluent in Mandarin.(10k per year) Little Dani was born in Hong Kong. Everyone has dual citizenships.

    Feel free to call me paranoyed. Mrs. Make certainly does.

  101. Veto That says:

    “Happy is overrated.”

    Clot i’ll take it a step further.
    happy = broke.
    Have you ever been to a third world country?
    smiles from ear to ear.

  102. The kids are alright:

    LONDON (Reuters) – A group of schoolchildren who reared a lamb from birth and named it Marcus has overridden objections by parents and rights activists and voted to send the animal to slaughter.

    Marcus the six-month-old lamb has now been culled, the head teacher of the primary school in Kent confirmed on Monday, after the school’s council — a 14-member group of children aged 6 to 11 — voted 13-1 to have him killed.

    The decision has provoked fury among animal-loving celebrities, animal and human rights campaigners and the parents of some of the children, and led to threats against Lydd primary school and its teachers, according to a member of staff.


  103. Veto (102)-

    That’s useful to know, as we slide into Third World status.

  104. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [101] make

    How about I just call you “paranoid” instead?

    Paranoia is an unreasonable reaction to a nonexistent or remote threat. In your case, your actions have benefits even if the threat never materialized (kids know a language and can travel). I would call that prudent.

  105. kettle1 says:


    your getting close to the adage,

    “your only truly free when you have nothing to lose”

    and the Buddhist concept of happiness through simplicity

  106. I wonder how many Buddhists are NFL fans.

  107. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [102] veto

    I remember the wisdom of my friend Dave, who grew up dirt poor and struggled mightily to carve out a nice middle class lifestyle:

    “They say money can’t buy happiness, and they are right, I suppose, but I’d rather be rich and unhappy than poor and miserable.”

  108. kettle1 says:

    nom 100

    Won’t work. Under “No Child Gets Ahead”, the emphasis will be on the lowest (or slowest) common denominator, not on developing the best and brightest.

    So will educated children who are versed in logical thought be the “one-eyed man in the land of the blind” or the witch on the stake?

  109. Veto That says:

    ket, buddah or henry david thoreau.

  110. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [106] kettle

    I’d take it a step further:

    “you are only free when your assets are safely offshore in trust accounts, and free from government expropriation. Then you have nothing meaningful to lose. And you can live simply, knowing that you have access to government benefits in addition to a quiet yet steady income stream that is funneled through sources to arrive back home as nontaxable gifts.”

    Okay, not so simple. But I am not a buddhist.

  111. kettle1 says:


    the same concept has been put forth by many throughout history

  112. kettle1 says:


    we need to start a “nuclear” education society. Our own little Logical SS.

  113. kettle1 says:


    The new Illuminati?

  114. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [109] kettle

    Both, I suppose. Further, it depends on the profession and the political cover for it. Also, one must understand when to advocate logical thought, and when to simply shout with the mob. Right now, it is better to be with the mob, as even what were once the pillars of thought and reason have resorted to name-calling in place of argument. Carter’s recent comments come to mind here—when you can’t rebut the other side’s argument, call them rac1sts.

  115. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [115] kettle,

    Or, as I would prefer, a new Bilderberger.

  116. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [114] ket,

    dunno on the name. SS and logical never seemed to go well together. Besides, by its very nature, logic isn’t force-fed.

  117. leftwing says:

    Re: Class Size/Europe

    There are many comparisons to Europe on this board.

    A critical difference – whether we are discussing education, healthcare, welfare, etc. – is the homogenous population in each European country.

    It easier to sacrafice for another, educate many, or provide support for all when everyone comes from a similar background and has common attitudes, beliefs, and behaviors.

    Don’t misread me, the diversity and openness of the US is one of its great strengths. But when told to provide for another with whom you have basic philosophical differences there will be resistance and social fracture.

    I spent a couple of years in Vienna in the 90s. The country shares a common heritage, language, religion, and outlook. It may not be the most creative place on earth but jamming three dozen random kids in a room has a very different outcome than here. Likewise, pooling of resources – for common healthcare for example – is more readily accepted.

  118. Veto That says:

    “A critical difference is the homogenous population in Europe. Its easier to sacrafice for another when everyone comes from a similar background and has common beliefs, and behaviors.”

    Lefty, good point. this cannot be stressed enough imo.
    I was shocked to see the English projects are scattered into the midst of higher end neighborhoods – where the poor can gain exposure and intermingle with the higher socioeconomic population. In America, we ship the poor off to projects on an island – as far away from our children as possible.
    Totally different mind-sets there.

  119. Veto That says:

    grim, second one stuck in moderation today.
    I see nothing that could trigger. Any hints?

  120. kettle1 says:

    118 nom

    by SS i was referring to best of the best / hihgly trained aspect, not the more notoriious aspects. more of a Shock troop of education

    Poor choice of words on my part

  121. kettle1 says:

    nom 117,

    better analogy

  122. Victorian says:

    Right now, it is better to be with the mob
    I usually ignore all this. But isn’t the “mob” out there teabagging and painting Hitler mustaches? Fine way to have a rational discourse, I must say.

  123. kettle1 says:

    i love obama’s reasoning for bailing out newspapers

    “I am concerned that if the direction of the news is all blogosphere, all opinions, with no serious fact-checking, no serious attempts to put stories in context, that what you will end up getting is people shouting at each other across the void but not a lot of mutual understanding,”

  124. daddyo says:

    “Congress and Obama are intent on keeping the education bubble blown up, they are about to start loaning money via new legislation in the works right now.”

    The plan isn’t to loan new money, it’s to stop the process whereby the US Government guarantees all the loans, while private companies reap all the profits making them. Sallie Mae has almost zero skin in the game on the vast majority of its loans, because the FFELP program provides a 97% guarantee. Lenders make billions by just skimming the program.

    Closing that hole saves the process billions in transactions costs.

  125. Veto That says:

    “all opinions, with no serious fact-checking”

    Actually you see a ton of this on blogs – i have to agree with the guy.
    It’s not to say that mainstream media is much better but i read alot of blog entries that couldnt be more wrong while the poster is totally convinced and full of confidence about his/her statement of fact.

    Then you have all these new blogs that are self professed economists and their main goal is to make a name for themselves by scaring the daylights out of the readers so they will be convinced that the world is falling and that will keep them coming back.

  126. HEHEHE says:


    They want to bailout the newspapers to control the message.

  127. Victorian says:


    The message is already controlled by the corporations who provide ad revenue to the newspapers. So the govt which is owned by the corporations now want to own the newspapers, so the corporations can directly own the newspapers.
    Efficient market at work.

  128. kettle1 says:


    exactly. when they are beholden to the government its going o be hard to write scathing expose type pieces on the master of the purse string.


    There is a lot of junk mixed in with the nuggets if real news on the web. However, to some degree that is a necessary consequence of high speed free flowing news/info.

    Better the news with the junk then the news filtered with the local political filter.

  129. John says:

    An armed society makes for a more civil society!

  130. kettle1 says:

    Vic, 129

    that would seem to accelerate the digital divide. those whose are comfortable with the digital world will continue to see their level of access to unfiltered info restricted.

  131. Anon E. Moose says:

    Kettle [114,115]:

    Need to call it something the kids today can relate to. “Dumbeldore’s Army” That’ll bring ’em in.

  132. make money says:


    This is the guy who offered to buy the Nets. Walsh and the Knicks will be screwed if he comes to NY. He can offer Lebron a whole lot of shiny from his Polyus Gold company where he is chairman.

    When shiny and the Dow are 1:1 maybe I’ll offer my 12,000+ ounces to Dolan for NY Knicks. Sarcasm off.

  133. Stu says:

    I hate when this place turns partisan. Things were going so well today. Especially the education debate which I found very interesting.

  134. Alap says:

    Russia bought the Nets. they’re moving from the meadowlands to moscow.

  135. RentL0rd says:

    No surprise…Fed leaves interest rate unchanged

  136. stan says:

    Agree with Stu.

    BTW that reuters article about the lamb in London made my day.

  137. Veto That says:

    Realtor.com map feature: Some listings are shown as little blue squares, others are shown as little yellow squares.
    Does anyone know what these two colors represent?

  138. RentL0rd says:

    #119 – good observation indeed!

  139. Sean says:

    daddyo – We “taxpayers” are going to subsidize the Education bubble, having skin in the game will be you and me not the kids. They are increasing the Pell Grants and will be giving out more loans not less.

  140. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [124] victorian

    Actually, I meant the mob that calls anyone who disagrees with The One a rac1st.

    Mobs aren’t just right wing. Ask anyone who escaped a marxist takeover.

  141. House Whine says:

    Back to the education debate- The community colleges serve as a great way for adults to re-train themselves and for high school grads who are not ready emotionally or intellectually yet to attend a four year college, living away from home. And, some of the degrees actually lead to a concrete profession upon graduation. You can’t beat the price. I have a college degree but attended my community college for a new career and it was money very well spent. I developed great relationships with some of the instructors. I think learning is what you make of it- use the resources available to you and you can’t help but learn.

  142. Ellen says:


    The lack of tracking in early grades is extremely frustrating, but in my experience it isn’t hurting the brightest kids. It’s hurting the kids in the vast middle. When the average (or slightly above average) kid gets bored he can’t always catch up when it’s time to tune back in. The bright kids spend most of their days doing SSR (sustained silent reading) with their chapter books and they’re just fine – there’s nothing those kids NEED to learn in those grades and they can increase their focus and their knowledge base through SSR.

    People who say their first or second grader does poorly academically because “he’s bored” are probably telling the truth. Problem is, most of those parents think their kid’s gifted and are unable to face the fact that their kid’s in the vast middle and is suffering because the teaching is aimed at the lowest common denominator.

    The good news is that most schools track the kids by fourth or fifth grade.

  143. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [130] John

    I believe you are trying to quote Robert Heinlein, who said “An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life.”

    Relative to today’s discussion, he also said “Don’t handicap your children by making their lives easy.”

  144. A.West says:

    Comrade (100)
    The left’s leading modern philsopher John Rawls tought that if anyone is smarter or wealthier than anyone else, then it’s due to luck. Thus they don’t deserve any credit or any benefit from it, and government’s job is to extract such “surpluses” from those lucky individuals and redistribute them to “society”.

    The teaching establishment now enjoys forcing gifted children to teach the “differently mentally abled” kids, as a way of training them to “give back,” but restrain themselves so as to not lose any opportunities to create $100k/yr special ed jobs.

    I went to a small school in Florida and thus had to be bussed to a gifted program in a nearby town once a week. Shared a bus with the retarded kids. It was like being in a lunatic asylum, and didn’t at all enhance my educational experience, other than learning that those kids weren’t nearly so cuddly and sweet as the ones shown on TV.

  145. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [143] ellen

    I didn’t think I was discussing el-ed, but okay.

  146. A.West says:

    Victorian (129)
    Hey, I think I saw you on TV, are you the guy with the guitar?

  147. yikes says:

    Essex says:
    September 21, 2009 at 7:23 pm

    Yes, but meanwhile we patiently await the burning of Wall Street and the angry mobs with pitchforks….

    You didnt get the memo? This was delayed until inflation hits.

  148. Ellen says:

    #143 oops. Sorry. I didn’t read the whole thread. See, I’ve got average intelligence, and tried to jump back in. ;)

  149. Sean says:

    Sigh, I am getting old. Today is Bruce Springsteen’s 60th birthday.

    I remember picking up Born in the U.S.A. when it came out at the Bradlees store in Hackensack.

  150. Danzud says:

    #125, Good catch. I need the NY Times and Maureen Dowd to interpret for me that “you lie!” really means “you lie, Boy!”. Good think we get to keep fact-checking companies like these!

  151. make money says:


    Local community colleges in NJ are eating private school lunch. Check out their enrolment. Paying 150K for a private school BA degree will be a luxury only a few can afford.

  152. waiting says:

    guys can anyone post pending sales/under contract data in secaucus,nj ?
    also Any data about Harmon cove complex is appreciated.

  153. Victorian says:

    Actually, I meant the mob that calls anyone who disagrees with The One a rac1st.
    Ahh, so it is your perception of a “mob”. What would you call the fine people who call “The One” as Hitler?.

    Ask anyone who escaped a marxist takeover
    Relevance? Do you see people storming corporate headquarters over here? No, we see people marching on D.C. and holding up posters of Glen Beck.

    Actually, this discussion is pointless, neither of us is going to change the other’s views. Carry on. Reminds me why I don’t read this blog anymore for days on end.

    Sorry, grim.

  154. ruggles says:

    138 – the blue ones are those that an agent didn’t pay to feature on r.com.

  155. kettle1 says:

    A 146

    The left’s leading modern philosopher John Rawls thought that if anyone is smarter or wealthier than anyone else, then it’s due to luck.

    That is a very disturbing mind set.

    I am only vaguely familiar with rawls and cant intelligently speak to any of his work, but if your statement is accurate its scary.

    SO i guess the kind who finished his 2nd PhD by age 18 and the kid on the short bus only differ in luck?
    An extreme example perhaps but the concept holds. I will never play the guitar like Bruce, or Jimmy, but i suspect neither of them would make very good engineers.

    Perhaps someone should start a Spartan political party and try to drag the discourse back to the middle and the realm of sanity again.

  156. zieba says:

    RE: 156


    “I will never play the guitar like Bruce, or Jimmy, but i suspect neither of them would make very good engineers.”

    … you mean high school janitors, right?

  157. kettle1 says:


    i doubt any average joe could handle a mop or floor buffer quite like i could. Its a special skill to get that cafeteria floor sparkle that is so highly coveted.

  158. make money says:

    Speaking of early eaducation.

    My daughter is 4yrs old. Since mrs and mr make are stay home parents then she has no choice but to outperform average Jane.

    She learned the alphabet at 2.(sesame street helped a ton) Learned to spell words at 3. She can now do additions and subtractions easily.Next up is a multi/divison.

    I want her done with 8th grade by the time she’s 10. Ps. if it was up to me I’ll home school her but mrs make won’t budge.

    A child can easily learn one year NYC curriculum with a parent in 2 months. We examined and analazied this. However we’ll give her 4-5 months. The rest of the time they’re just babysitting or the teacher is selling her version of the world to the kid.

    We can teach my daughterr all the basic knowledge of history, humanities, english and math. Since I’m the math teacher she can solve equations like 11-X=7. My wife has a much slower pace of teaching. Partly cause she’s concerned and partly to switch it up a little.

    I’m terrible proud of her but I’m keenly aware that she’s slightly above average intelectually but we have instilled a an amazing work ethic. With her it’s 80% work 20% intelligence.

    As far as being happy is concerned, you should see her face when you ask her to spell inflation or any other word she knows. We hung out last weekend in Snug Harbor with another couple whose 10yr old kid attends an exculsive NYC private school. My girl ran circles around that boy during dinner. How happy do you think she was when his parents kept raving about how smart my girl was. Better yet how “happy” was their own kid he herd this.

    Having a school system educate your kids and expecting them to do great things is silly.

  159. Stu says:

    I know it was expected, but:

    Fed Slows $1.45T Program to Aid Housing Market


    The Fed decided to stretch out its goal of buying $1.45 trillion in mortgage-backed securities and debt issued by Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac and Ginnie Mae until the end of the first quarter of 2010. Originally, the central bank intended to complete buying those securities by the end of this year.

  160. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    Grim, my rejoinder to Victorian in Mod.

    My apologies also. Will hit the button next month when I have cash (apparently not all us rich folk have cash at the end of the month).

  161. Essex says:

    So Nom. What’s on your agenda for today?

  162. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [160] make

    That’s great. To me, its all about the work ethic. That is something I am having trouble instilling in D-1, but here time is a problem as I am not around enough to do it.

  163. Barbara says:

    Perfect parent hour! An internet staple.

  164. Stu says:

    I’m pretty happy that my son can write his first and last name and is well adjusted. I’d be happy if he would eat Chinese let alone speak it.

  165. Barbara says:

    stu, it all clicks. I was all worked up last year and this year its clicking. I’ve worked with him but I take no credit, I think it comes when it comes.

  166. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [162] essex,

    Well, I had a nice reply to A.West planned re: Rawls and his unfortunate experience in Fl, but then Vic needed a little history lesson (in mod), so I dumped West’s reply and now I have to get back to work since someone has to pay for the bailouts..

  167. Schumpeter says:

    I’m teaching my kids how to hold their liquor.

  168. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [170] schump

    By the ears???

    {sorry, I know that is John’s domain, but I couldn’t resist)

  169. Doyle says:


    Highly underrated skill… There are a good number of kids who go off to college after a sheltered 18 years and go ape sh*t at school. They never partied in their younger years and half end up going home after failing out first semester.

    Growing up in a hard-partying town can be an asset. You learn to hoot with the owls as well as soar with the eagles.

  170. Schumpeter says:


    “Since market forces are no longer allowed to allocate capital and control risk, these decisions are now made by government regulators and are then passed through to their subordinates on Wall Street. This perv@rse organizational structure constitutes a new form of American fascism.”


  171. Schumpeter says:

    More Mish:

    “The only regulator we need is a sound money supply and the elimination of fractional reserve lending. Everything else is just as Schiff put it “American Fascism”. Here is a simple way of looking at things.

    Do we need someone to regulate Fannie Mae or do we need to eliminate Fannie Mae?

    Do we need regulators to look at rating agencies or do we need to eliminate government sponsorship of rating agencies? (If you don’t know the answer please see Time To Break Up The Credit Rating Cartel.)

    Do we need regulators to watch over bank lending or do we need to promote sound money practices that are by definition self-regulating?

    In every instance, regulation has created a problem, yet the universal screams are for more of what has already failed.”

  172. make money says:

    165 (BC),

    great stuff. Just emailed that chart to wifey, it might get my salami slurped.

  173. A.West says:

    Rats! That’s like telling me you baked me a cake but then threw it in the garbage instead.

    Make Money,
    That’s great that you’ve taught your daughter how to enjoy thinking, and to do it dilligently! There’s always someone out there smarter than you, in a sort of physical capacity way. The real key to success in life is being able to integrate knowledge in a useful way, sort out the true from the false, and really understand things rather than just having the ability to regurgitate facts for tests. (Though the latter comes in handy in school.)

    So there are many things that I understand better than much more “brilliant” minds, because I invest more in my own mental processes and knowledge structures.

  174. BC Bob says:

    Make [175],

    Either that or wifey might want a new BMW?

  175. make money says:


    Since I’m having trouble collecting rents these days our disposable income is halved. Physical shiny does not pay any interest you know.

  176. sas says:

    “Like it or not we need troops”

    yup, someone’s gotta protect that opium trade. US doesn’t want it to go back to the Russians nor have some dumb guy with a beard and a night shirt keeping the profits for themselves.

    oh yeah, throw in a few corporate privatized military duties…

    its like when an ol’ military official told me they “withdrew” troops from x city. Come to find out, the military just redrew the “boundaries” of the city. It was the lines on the map that changed, not the logistics on the ground.


  177. SS says:

    Off topic…

    For you accountants out there:

    Company A is the overall parent company, company B is a sub of A, C is a sub of B, and D was recently purchased by C. Company B will be funding the initial investment in D by giving the cash to C.

    I’m thinking the intercompany elimination entry should be
    Dr. ‘Investment in Sub’ on C’s books
    Cr. ‘Cash’ on B’s books (?)

    …but I’m not sure. Any thoughts?

    BTW – I’m an IT guy trying to help someone book an entry in SAP, and it’s been a long time since I wore my Accountant hat.

  178. kettle1 says:


    care to comment?

    Honduras: curfew extended to 50 hours. power, water, food cut to Brazillian Embassy, Barrios barracaded, police evicted.

  179. sas says:

    “care to comment?”

    order out of chaos. its all a big nothing to give legitimacy to a US presence.

    you know how many factories are down there or the wage rate? and its going to stay that way. US (along with the help of others) will make sure of that.

    Its like that one time, i was down in Columbia, doing a little agriculture. I got wind of a gig, the US Coca Cola company wanted to do some union busting….one way or another…they got it done…


  180. sas says:

    i haven’t seen that coyote for awhile up in Ramapo for awhile.


  181. still_looking says:

    last night, patient comes in suffering from alcohol withdrawal. Been on a bender for more than a week. Me, stupid me. I ask, why???

    Response: Lost IT job, in danger of losing house. Trying to hurry up schooling for nursing for career change. Pt is in their mid forties.


  182. still_looking says:

    then of course there was the less than 10 yr old youngster there for balanitis. Uncirc’d kid. Explain fore*skin hygiene etc, etc.

    Kid asks me, “Is it big?”

    Me: Biggest p3nis I’ve seen all day!

    Kid: *beaming grin from ear to ear*

    yah. can’t make this stuff up.

    Like an alternate universe at times.


  183. gary says:


    Last night, patient comes in suffering from alcohol withdrawal. Been on a bender for more than a week.

    Was his name Gary? ;)

  184. gman says:

    Well it looks like interest rates won’t be going up anytime soon. Fed is extending the MBS buyback program till next March…

    In addition to this it appears there is a very good chance now the first time homebuyer tax credit is going to be extended for another 6 months…

  185. Ben says:

    “About the ‘education bubble’

    totally disagree with the whole concept. I must be missing something.

    I think we are moving in a direction where bachelors or equivalent will be mandatory for 100% of the population.

    Gone are the days where a hs grad can pick up a hammer and go off to work. ”

    I totally disagree. College education is now more overpriced than a POS cape in NJ. The quality of the education is spiraling downhill while the cost goes up. You are wrong about the mandatory Bachelors. They hold less and less weight each day and this country will yearn for high school grads that actually know how to use a screw driver or change a flat tire on their own.

    The idea that the entire population could go to college and work advanced jobs was completely flawed from the get go. We tried it and we destroyed our manufacturing based labor force (which doesn’t really require much education), we managed to bankrupt our entire nation. We need less people going to college, not more. Not for nothing, but a farmer or assembly line worker contributes a hell of a lot more to an economy that 90% of the engineers and scientists I know. Most of these people work on issues and in fields that are littered with subsidies or government contracts, which allows them to overestimate their importance. If we ever stopped funding these things through the federal government and decreased regulation, we might actually get some real improvement in technology. As far as people think we have come, the technological gains have been pretty pathetic in the past 10 years.

  186. sas says:

    “Lost IT job, in danger of losing house”

    why not do some foreclosure stripping.

    Find the houses that have gone into foreclosure or vacant. Strip that SOB for all its worth. Gut while your at it.

    sell if all on ebay, craigs list, or barter.

    hell, i think i will take a drive right now and look for some copper pipes.


  187. sas says:

    btw- has anyone ever put butternut squash in chicken noodle soup?

    I’m maken a soup for a house guest come tomorrow night.


  188. chicagofinance says:

    Random Thoughts for the Day:

    I think part of a best friend’s job should be to immediately clear your computer history if you die.

    Nothing sucks more than that moment during an argument when you realize you’re wrong.

    I totally take back all those times I didn’t want to nap when I was younger.

    There is great need for a sarcasm font.

    How the hell are you supposed to fold a fitted sheet?

    Was learning cursive really necessary?

    Map Quest really needs to start their directions on #5. Pretty sure I know how to get out of my neighborhood.

    Obituaries would be a lot more interesting if they told you how the person died.

    I can’t remember the last time I wasn’t at least kind of tired.

    Bad decisions make good stories.

    You never know when it will strike, but there comes a moment at work when you know that you just aren’t going to do anything productive for the rest of the day.

    Can we all just agree to ignore whatever comes after Blue Ray? I don’t want to have to restart my collection…again.

    I’m always slightly terrified when I exit out of Word and it asks me if I want to save any changes to my ten page research paper that I swear I did not make any changes to.

    “Do not machine wash or tumble dry” means I will never wash this — ever.

    I hate when I just miss a call by the last ring (Hello? Hello? Damn it!), but when I immediately call back, it rings nine times and goes to voicemail. What’d you do after I didn’t answer? Drop the phone and run away?

    I hate leaving my house confident and looking good and then not seeing anyone of importance the entire day. What a waste.

    I keep some people’s phone numbers in my phone just so I know not to answer when they call.

    My 4-year old son asked me in the car the other day “Dad what would happen if you ran over a ninja?” How the hell do I respond to that?

    I think the freezer deserves a light as well..

    I disagree with Kay Jewelers. I would bet on any given Friday or Saturday night more kisses begin with Miller Lites than Kay.

  189. kettle1 says:


    My 4-year old son asked me in the car the other day “Dad what would happen if you ran over a ninja?” How the hell do I respond to that?

    something like this?


  190. kettle1 says:


    I disagree with Kay Jewelers. I would bet on any given Friday or Saturday night more kisses begin with Miller Lites than Kay.


  191. sas says:

    “Kay Jewelers”


    another scam.

    that movie blood diamond is not bad, except they leave one thing out, they don’t cut off limbs. They give nice doses of x-rays.


  192. sas says:

    talking about RE sure gets boring after a while..,.


  193. kettle1 says:

    SAS 199

    They give nice doses of x-rays.

    huh?????? care to elaborate?

  194. Laurie says:

    Re #188 SAS…You looking for coyotes up at ramapo?? Just come to my backyard…follow all the deer and geese and viola…you’ll find one….

  195. Laurie says:

    RE 193..college not for everyone…
    This has been my rant for some time now…school loans…good grief…you will be paying those things off for years…sometimes it seems like you’ll never get out from under, think of all the $$ you save by NOT going to college if it really isn’t for you.

  196. Sean says:

    Kettle1 – workers get X-rayed when leaving the diamond mine. Everyday.

  197. kettle1 says:


    sweet, how long does it usually take to get superpowers when you work at the diamond mines?

  198. kettle1 says:


    why do we really need to mine anymore? gem quality can be made cheaper and of higher quality in labs now…..

    industrial grade doesnt need the security shenanigans either.

  199. Sean says:

    ket – best diamonds in the world now come from Canada, being mined from an extinct volcano. Ever see Ice Road Truckers?

  200. HansBrix says:

    “why do we really need to mine anymore? gem quality can be made cheaper and of higher quality in labs now…..”

    Because women care more about how much the guy spends than the rock itself.

    If real diamonds permanently lost 95% of their value, women would seek a substitute for engagement rings, etc.

  201. kettle1 says:


    DeBeers may have the most successful ad campaign in history. diamonds arent that rare compared to may other stones. we just need a little social deprogrammimg.

    Gifts are great and all, but a massively overvalued stone is a sucky one

  202. pasta maker says:

    Interesting blog, i have bookmarked it for future referrence.

    Greetings from Tim. :)

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