From the NY Times:
As Property Taxes Become a Real Burden, Can Backlash Be Far Off?
The list from census data isn’t all that surprising, but there it is.
Westchester County, No. 1. Nassau, No. 2. Hunterdon and Bergen in New Jersey, Nos. 3 and 4, respectively.
And so it goes. Of the 10 counties in the country with the highest median property taxes, every one is in New York or New Jersey.
…
This, as anyone who breathes oxygen knows, is a high-tax region. But as Richard Nathan packed up his office on Friday after 45 years of studying or participating in state, local and federal tax and budget policies, he wondered if we had finally reached a breaking point.“I’m a little surprised there hasn’t been more heat and more agitation about tax caps and tax burdens in the way there has been in other parts of the country,” said Dr. Nathan, who retired as co-director of the Nelson A. Rockefeller Institute of Government at the State University of New York at Albany. “I keep thinking, ‘When is this dog going to bark?’ And the numbers make you think it’s going to be soon. It just feels different right now.”
…
“It’s the No. 1 issue,” he said. “People have reached their breaking point. But we still have a long way to go in connecting the dots between dysfunction in state government and high property taxes.”Still, breaking point or not, who knows where this goes? A Proposition 13-style temper tantrum? Painful cuts — meaning teachers and police? Throw out the bums — most likely Democrats, who could be fat targets in an antitax backlash? Lots of grumbling but living with an increasingly unaffordable status quo?
From the Philly Inquirer:
Homeowners are challenging property-tax assessments at a record rate
With the ebbing of the real estate market, a record-bursting tide of property-tax appeals is inundating assessment offices all over the region – and the nation – with appeal numbers double and triple what they were last year.
What is happening locally “is a microcosm of the whole country,” said John Garippa, a New Jersey tax lawyer and president of the American Property Tax Counsel in Chicago. “It’s an incredible, incredible number of appeals.”
New Jersey has smashed records for county-level and court filings, he said. Camden County’s 1,260 appeals were triple last year’s. More than 14,000 were filed in Ocean County, and with an April 1 appeal deadline, the county typically wraps up hearings during the summer; this year, they will be lapping into November.
…
The assessment offices are in the recessionary cross-fire because, of all the major levies, real estate is the only one that a taxpayer can fight. Wage, sales, and head taxes are immutable, but a property-tax bill is arguable.The tax bill is based on the assessment – the portion of market value that is subject to taxation. And if a property owner can demonstrate that the true market value is less than the assessors’ estimate, the tax bill can be lowered.
With property values sagging, the appeals business is surging. It’s not surprising that the Garden State’s appeals would be off the charts, said Jerry Cantrell, president of the New Jersey Taxpayers Association, because the state’s real estate levy is among the nation’s highest. “It hits everybody,” Cantrell said.
If the big driver in New Jersey is the sheer magnitude of the bills, the tax matrix is a tad more complicated in Pennsylvania.
…
Tax experts think that with values continuing to fall, the appeals business will continue to rise.
…
Said Sharkey: “I think next year is going to be worse.”
From CNBC:
Unemployment to Rise Through Most of 2010: Roubini
High unemployment and a lack of stimulus for private demand by countries like Japan and Germany could slow down the world recovery, famous bear Nouriel Roubini, chairman of RGE Monitor, told CNBC Monday.
“I see the unemployment rate rising through most of 2010,” Roubini told CNBC.
“Not just is going to go above 10 percent but the risk is it’s going to stay above this level and return to more normal only more gradually and that’s going to be one of the important sources of weakness for an economic recovery,” he added.
no tax cuts for NJ. Corzine a shoe in.
insures that the unions teachers,cops,fire,
munis all get raises. taxpayer,, take it,
and like it , you live in NJ,the garden state, afterall you can get a nice REO,
foreclosed, or POS cape.
From the Star Ledger:
Public hearings to begin on N.J. post office closings
Public hearings will start next week on a proposed restructuring of the U.S. Postal Service’s North Jersey mail distribution system, which could affect mail facilities in Hanover, Newark, Kearny, Teterboro and Trenton.
An in-house study being done by the Postal Service is reviewing possible closure of the West Jersey mail center in Hanover and elimination of mail processing at the main Newark post office, which could lead to a redistribution of services at the Kearny, Teterboro and Trenton postal facilities.
September WARN Notices posted:
2009-September WARN Notice
COMPANY CITY EFFECTIVE DATE WORKFORCE AFFECTED
CHURCH & DWIGHT CO. INC
NORTH BRUNSWICK
11/1/2009
258
BERRY PLASTICS
PISCATAWAY
11/2/2009
79
SEABROOK HOUSE
SEABROOK
12/31/2009
52
ALLSTATE NEW JERSEY INSURANCE CO
PARAMUS
11/15/2009
89
NYK LOGISTICS, INC.
PORT MURRAY
11/20/2009
24
HSBC
BRIDGEWATER
11/16/2009
49
CORD CRAFTS, LLC
WHARTON
11/23/2009
113
I am going to start soliciting homeowners whose youngest children are graduating high school anywhere in Hunterdon Co.
If they are anything like me (and I bet they are), their plan has got to be to get out of here the minute the last kid graduates.
I read Clot for advice and Gary for motivation. Not sure what to expect next week when we begin our house safari. Excited about the prospect of owning; terrified about the prospect of everything going to Hades in a handbasket. Essex’s idea to hide out in Europe has appeal, we could stay where we are but future value of the dollar (going to 50 eurocents?) a problem.
DL (6)-
Don’t worry; the Euro may sink into the muck faster than the USD.
How come home prices in Cranford are 4 times as high as in good section of Roselle? You can get a nice 4 bedroom in Roeselle for 100k, where on the other side of GSP it will cost you 400k. I know it’s a better town, but 4 times better?
Grim
You have mail.
I tend to think that a big factor in people not raising Cain over rising taxes lo these many years is the issue of not wanting to appear to lack the means to afford to live someplace. Like the consumers who pay thousands for a handbag that should cost, maybe, a couple hundred bucks, butfor the cachet of owning a (insert name of overpriced designer of the moment here), people just paid to avoid calling attention to themselves and facing: from town officials, “well, this is an exclusive town and it is not for everyone, only the truely successful live here and if you are a failure and need to move, perhaps you should”; from friends and neighbors, “Oh, I thought you were doing better than that, is money a concern for YOUR family? ”
Too many people have gotten sucked into the idea that one SHOULD pay if one can afford to pay. “Our residents can afford the best.” We can afford a hell of a lot of things that we do not buy because they do not bring us value or because it makes little long-term benefit. Objections to rising costs may represent good sense rather than lack of ability to pay. It is about time that more people stopped worrying what people will think and stop willingly paying for things that are overpriced — including town and state services.
It’s already Oct 5 and this Essex County property tax protesting family still has not even been assigned a hearing date. I am thinking that we will be filing for 2010 before our 2009 matteris decided.
I really don’t think RE taxes are so bad. It just depends on your situation. The folks in the capes with four kids paying 10K a year get 60K worth of free school. Whadda you expect. The childless couple in a mansion are subsidizing the cape crowd. Rock on baby. Just fill those rooms up in your mansion.
I think taxes are too low in NJ, since good % of population works out of state and does not pay any income taxes at all. RE taxes and sales are the only thing they pay. Do you want no taxes at all?
Move to Dubai or Cayman.
I like what Tom Souzi said out on LI, you are free not to pay school taxes, just sign a legal document stating you will never use the services of a person with a HS degree, no doctors, dentists, CPAs, teachers, etc. I paid for their education and you are not getting it for free. So far no takers.
Clotpoll says:
October 5, 2009 at 6:52 am
I am going to start soliciting homeowners whose youngest children are graduating high school anywhere in Hunterdon Co.
If they are anything like me (and I bet they are), their plan has got to be to get out of here the minute the last kid graduates.
grim,
Forget TN, look for a job in Warsaw, the job market is fire there.
#10 “not wanting to appear to lack the means” Yup, and that’s how people not only go broke, but live with massive amounts of debt their whole lives. They will NEVER see daylight. Full disclosure – I buy my jeans at WalMart for 16 bucks. Don’t even try them on because I know I’ll like them and they’ll fit just fine.
I am going to start soliciting homeowners whose youngest children are graduating …If their plan has got to be to get out of here the minute the last kid graduates.
I know it was a running joke in Glen Rock, as well as in some other “blue ribbon” Bergen County towns, that in June parents would put a “congratulations graduate” sign on their front lawn and the same day put a “for sale” next to it.
In case anyone missed this yesterday, here’s a must-read/view:
“There was a love fest on ABC’s This Week. The odd couple was Senators Schumer (D.NY) and Cornyn (R.TX).
When Schumer says, ”We have to extend the housing tax credit” Cornyn says, “Chuck and I agree”.
Cornyn went on to make a plug for Senator Isakson’s (R.GA.) bill. This would expand the $8,000 tax credit to $15,000. I t would also make it available to all comers. The existing bill is only for first time buyers.
While Cornyn is talking, Chuck is shaking his head, Yes, yes, yes.”
http://tinyurl.com/ybt2fly
Looks like Crapshacks for Dopes is going to get expanded and extended. 2010 will be the year in which the US gubmint will coat the 10-megaton plutonium bomb of FHA-induced economic implosion with spent uranium rods and other unstable, fissionable material.
Why burn up mere trillions, when you can go for a quadrillion?
John (14)-
It’s not the concept of the taxes that are the problem. It’s the excessive amount and allocation of the monies.
I’m as anarchistic as anyone here, but I do pay my taxes and expect to continue to do so. It’s not pig-headed to want those dollars spent to count for something.
#18,
Another reason to buy a house, the politicians will prop up the RE market big time. Buy a house now before they go up in price.
Frank, why don’t you go to Warsaw and gag on a kielbasa?
R.E. Tax news of the day:
(and my apologies if Grim already posted this over the weekend. Not that it affects any of us anyway).
“PHILADELPHIA—Gov. Jon S. Corzine (D) Oct. 1 signed legislation (S. 661) revising the eligibility criteria for the state-funded “Senior Freeze” property tax rebate program to benefit seniors and disabled homeowners who move to another home within New Jersey.
Under the program, the state reimburses eligible senior citizens and disabled people for the difference between the amount of local property taxes they paid in the base year, which is the year they became eligible and first filed for the program, and the amount of property taxes they paid in the reimbursement year.
The program effectively freezes property taxes at base-year levels.
Under the bill, which is effective immediately, seniors and disabled people still have to meet a three-year homeownership requirement to become eligible for the Senior Freeze program initially.
But if they later move to another home within the state, they will become eligible for the homestead rebate the second full tax year following the move.
Reduces Interruption of Tax Benefits
Previously, a change of residence triggered a new three-year residency requirement before the homeowner qualified for the property tax rebate program.
The provisions of the bill reduce the length of time property tax benefits are interrupted after a move to a new home from three years to one year. . . .”
“The childless couple in a mansion are subsidizing the cape crowd. ”
Since the emergence of public education in this nation, it has ever been thus — even back in the dark ages ’70’s 80’s before the run up in taxes — in real terms — tht we have seen over the past 20 years.
We have decided that universal education of children — whether to create conttributors to the body politic, or to prevent the creation of street thugs — is a public benefit, and, as such, should be funded by everyone. This is no differet than police protection; people who live in certain areas use the services more than those in other areas. So be it, as it benefits everyone overall.
The problem arises when we take the “spend whatever it takes” approach. There are an infinate number of things that can be included in school curricula, and, if you have seen the course offerings in many upscale schools, the bredth of offrings is breathtaking. As valuable as many of the courses may be, I suspect we could get by elimnating over half of the course offerings from some schools. We are no longer awash in available cash and, like the family who has economc difficulties and decided to reduce the numbers of dinners out and cook at home more, we need to find ways of reducing spending without cutting the essential components of education, town services, state services, etc.
For the moment, we need to focus on essentials, not so much the extras. Extras are just that.
Why burn up mere trillions, when you can go for a quadrillion?
Clot,
This is precisely why anyone willing to protect themselves against this lower standard of living baked in the cake should buy a home with 3% down and own shiny.
all disclaimers.
#10 You have it exactly on the nose. And that mindset is very prevelant in the “wannabe towns.”
[19] clot,
I take that idea so far as to contest virtually every traffic citation and parking ticket I get.
If I am going to give money to the gubmint, I want it spent on me.
Now they have to spend time and my money fending me off, which gives me some measure of personal satisfaction, and is good for my professional development.
Interacting with the bureacracy is also a great way to influence policy. What percentage of folks appeal property tax assessments? Pretty small. If you could convince just 4X that many to file appeals, even if they are losers, you not only overwhelm the system, you fire a very loud and large shot across the bow of the political leaders that there is a problem that they need to be aware of.
Shore (23)-
I think you’re right not to run for office. You’d be assassinated within weeks of declaring.
Besides, every honest guy who goes into gubmint ends up succumbing to its corrupting influence.
Anybody see the newer, softer version of Barofsky this AM?
Sickening.
I’m done with symbolic gunshots. Gubmint lackeys are slow learners, and need things laid out for them in more, uh, “literal” terms.
“…you not only overwhelm the system, you fire a very loud and large shot across the bow of the political leaders that there is a problem that they need to be aware of.”
23 many of the course offerings, although listed as available are seldom able to be utilized by the students. due to the required course offerings, and schedules, and the fact that some of these may only be offered once a year.
[25] 3b
I had said before about the Lincoln School in Brigadoon, that they seem to spend more time trumpeting what a great job they are doing than actually doing it.
Now in the elementary school, I see a continuation of that theme. In P-T conferences, the teachers are telling us about all the wonderful things that they are doing for our child, and them punctuating it with “your tax dollars at work.”
So far, they appear to be working hard and doing a good job. But (for reasons unknown) this is considered a “better” elementary school for the town (one colleague from the south side derisively calls it “Wilson Prep”). So I expect that the parents, while not minding that they are shelling out the bucks, also expect that Ellery and Graydon are getting top notch instruction, and won’t be shy about voicing their displeasure at NJEA slacking. I intend to follow suit.
(FWIW, I have not met any Ellery and Graydon types in Brigadoon. I get the impression that their parents have the North of 22 mindset)
The problem with school taxes is how the voting is done. When I was single or had no kids I had no clue when the school board vote took place and I don’t recall an mailing to me. Now as a parent the kids get notes in paperwork, PTA harasses me, I get several reminders to vote, all to vote yes!!!. Or my kids will get cut off. Plus there is the concept of lets say a program you kid uses gets cut off. Lets say you are in a town with 40k people and only 100 people use a afterschool program. In those parents eyes is better for everyones taxes to rise one dollar a year then they pay $400 each out of pocket.
As long as majority of voters have kids in school district good luck on getting budget cuts.
[29] clot
I hear you, but being familiar with Chapter 115 of Title 18 of the US Code, I will limit my shots to symbolic ones for now.
I think a big part of the local property tax problem has to do with who gets elected to local town councils. For the most part, these council members have to be very well off to be able to afford to spend countless hours (supposedly) running a town as well as holding a day job. Rich folk have no interest in lowering property taxes for they prefer the luxuries that come with high taxes. In lovely Montclair, our mayor just tried to pass a resolution for ‘Complete Streets’ that would allot a 20% premium out of our taxes for any new roadwork performed to make the roads more friendly to pedestrians and bicyclists. If anyone knows what it costs to maintain a road, that 20% would have been a huge number. Luckily it was temporarily shot down. I’ll share with you all the letter the mayor sent me on the topic as I congratulated the four town council members via email who voted against it.
I know you cc-ed me on your letter to those who voted down Complete Streets, but I wanted to tell you that your understanding of the Resolution was based on incomplete information and misinformation by other Council Members. Did you know that Montclair has recieved $3/4 million in funding for initiatives that are “complete street” initiatives? Did you know that future funding will be in jeopardy if Montclair is seen as moving away from the Complete Streets direction? Do you know that this kind of thinking is where all transportation policy is going? Cary’s scare tactic of the 20% increase is just ridiculous.
I’m sure that we’ll all have to spend more making our streets “complete” after they’re done the old-fashioned way. Curb cuts for the disabled used to be considered unnecessary and are now standard. Making streets work for all users is just common sense.
Jerry F
make 24,
This is precisely why anyone willing to protect themselves against this lower standard of living baked in the cake should buy a home with 3% down and own shiny.
I agree in theory. However the reality of the job market is that for the majority of people who are no currently home owners, the benefit of mobility to move with the increasingly volatile job market is a significant benefit. You can also mitigate your exposure to the life sucking taxes that come with a house
[32] john
That describes brigadoon to a T. IT is the quintessential kid-raising town, although up until now, folks didn’t leave when their kids did.
I expect that to change, and folks will do what I intend to do, which is to put our house on the market in the early spring of last daughter’s senior year. Problem is that it creates a self-perpetuating tax and spend cycle for the town.
Comrade Nom Deplume says:
October 5, 2009 at 9:01 am
[25] 3b
“Lincoln School in Brigadoon, that they seem to spend more time trumpeting what a great job they are doing than actually doing it.
Now in the elementary school, I see a continuation of that theme.
.. So I expect that the parents, while not minding that they are shelling out the bucks, also expect that Ellery and Graydon are getting top notch instruction, and won’t be shy about voicing their displeasure at NJEA slacking. I intend to follow suit.”
Nom – I think you are more or less describing the NJ “prestigious” schools vicious cycle. People pay more for “better school district”, teachers under pressure to perform, school feels need to trumpet, parents expectations raised, parents nitpick, teachers under MORE pressure to perform, more money requested ……….
I have to wonder at what stage increased parental involvement goes from the blessing on involved families to the major time and money suck of pleasing the patrons to the exclusion of all else.
Make 24,
I will go one step further.
Buying a home caould potentially be a good way to strategically protect yourself from the socioeconomic tsumani developing, but only if you pirchase out side of of NJ or states that tax a similiar levels.
Taxes are going to go up for everybody, but they are already so stratospheric in NJ that you start out in the hole.
lisoosh 37,
it seems to be a VERY fine line, form my personal experience.
Nom,
Glen Ridge is even more of a kid raising town. Their excellent school rankings don’t hurt. I think they have a law that requires everyone to install those congratulation senior lawn signs. What I haven’t figured out is why the realtors have not gotten wise to the game and simply placed the for sale sign on the reverse side of the congrats sign.
[37] lisoosh,
That’s it, and I hate it, especially the perceived need to hyperelevate your child in some sort of future career arm’s race, lobby schools on their behalf, and spend all that money.
If I didn’t think Frank was smoking dope again, and there were actually decent 4bds in Roselle for 100K, I’d be there, saving all that bank over Westfield, and paying for either private school or, more likely, intensive after school athletic and academic programs. After all, little Ellery will have a better shot at a scholarship if she is valedictorian at Roselle High, rather than middle of the pack in Westfield.
Make,
Let me also take your idea 1 step further.
Realistically its highly probably that some of your family memebrs will beocme unemployed at some point. If you are going to play the FHA 3% game then buy a home/property that could function to house other memebers of your family. In such a scenario you then have the ability to communalize common expnses and have a “lifeboat” of sortsto fall back on if set up properly. Consider it a “Nompound Light”, just not out in the woods and meant for full time use.
#37 Many of the so called involved parents could not find their way out of a paper bag.
[40] stu,
I remember you mentioning that; seems like everyone in Glen Ridge should just rent since the turnover there is based on the schools.
I first noticed this in Bethesda and Chevy Chase, two tony MD towns where folks would move there for 4 years and send their kids to H.S. In fact, there are a lot of political appointees that live there, and I have to think that certain of them chose where to live based in part on whether they had kids in h.s., and could send them to Bethesda or CC High, instead of paying for Sidwell Friends.
“I remember you mentioning that; seems like everyone in Glen Ridge should just rent since the turnover there is based on the schools.”
Though landlords selfishly would not want to see property tax increases which might hurt their school system which in turn would hurt their rental income.
[42] kettle,
Actually, you might as well have the Nompound at that point, since you are talking about housing unemployed family members. Further, recall the idea of fractional ownership of the Nompound was to promote full time use, rather than having a property that lies empty a lot of the time.
And since you should not let a good crisis go to waste, that unemployed family member can work the fields, thus insuring the fresh, organic food supply that is one rationale for the Nompound.
[45] stu
Actually, I disagree somewhat since they must realize at some level that the blue ribbon school district is what is attracting the HNW families that can afford to pay the higher rents.
It is sort of why the Yankees spend so much money on salaries. You can earn a good return at the high end (provided, of course, that you produce).
Im not too familar with the area of Mount Arlington out rt 80.
Any opinions on the area?
Governor Paterson was on CNBC this morning. He reminded everyone that tax receipts are down 36% yoy 2009 vs. 2008 in NY. He also said that NY was running about a $22B deficit.
Kettle,
When we get double digit inflation in a few short years then that $3,000 mortgage wil be the equivalent of a night out at Applebees.
Gov’t is giving fiat money away @ 5% and you can pay them back in installments over 30 yrs. Take it. Not to mention 15K free stimulus money.
What do you have to loose. 3% DP on a 500K home is 15K. They’re giving you 15K up front. Hence, 100% financing. It’s free money…
These guys don’t have any backbone, they will never pull liquidity away from market. Their goal is inflation and a race to zero. Eventually market will ablige.
Nom 46
Does the Nompouind Idea work with playing the financing game though? I thought the idea was own t free and clear.
Governor Paterson was on CNBC this morning. He reminded everyone that tax receipts are down 36% yoy 2009 vs. 2008 in NY. He also said that NY was running about a $22B deficit.
Sean,
Black helicopters on the way. Set up nets. MacBenny is gonna make it rain.
Down the road they will get border jumpers, people who live in Queens near LI board, will jump across line to get kids into GS, Manhasset, Great Neck, Herricks school district when oldest hit seventh grade. (Elementary schools are pretty good in NYC near boarder, Junior High and HS scary) Then they jump back across when youngest graduates HS, The Asians are notorious for this. They raise everyone elses taxes. A single house can run 30 kids through school over 70 years while in past, newlwed bought same house at 25 ran her three kids though school and died in house at 85.
kettle1 says:
October 5, 2009 at 9:06 am
make 24,
This is precisely why anyone willing to protect themselves against this lower standard of living baked in the cake should buy a home with 3% down and own shiny.
I agree in theory. However the reality of the job market is that for the majority of people who are no currently home owners, the benefit of mobility to move with the increasingly volatile job market is a significant benefit. You can also mitigate your exposure to the life sucking taxes that come with a house
Make,
in a few short years
I still have to disagree with you there. I think that the deflationary phas eis going to hit harder and longer then most think. The scale of the amount of deabt that must be destroyed is beyond what most deal with. One hundred billioon dollars is no different then a 100 quadrillion dollars to most people simply becuase they are not used to dealing with that scale.
Telling someone that you must destroy 100 billion in debt is no more or less significant then saying 100 quadrillion to the majority of people. However the real effects are very different.
We are looking at potentially hundreds of trillions of dollars in debt globally that will/must end up being destroyed.
A large war could speed the debt destruction process up significantly. Until a major conflict accelerates the process, its going to be a long slow slog through the sewers.
re: New Jersey and perceptions. It’s one of the advantages of Trenton. All the schools suck, right? One boy is in a charter public school with facilities nicer than any of the “prestigious” private schools we toured in Princeton. Teachers great. Happy place. 4-year-old is in FREE full day Montessouri (Abbott district.) Big house, 5k taxes. Thanks New Jersey! Oh wait, Trenton is a hellhole. Nevermind.
Sean,
This is the same patterson who heralded a 9% increase in spending for the current FY as a “cut,” because it decreased the rate of spending increases. The man is spineless and will say whatever the group he is spekinh to wants to hear.
Patterson is a perfect example of why no politcian (POTUS, excepted) should earn a pension for public service.
“After all, little Ellery will have a better shot at a scholarship if she is valedictorian at Roselle High, rather than middle of the pack in Westfield.”
It seems there is solid research that supports this. Not long ago I heard some researchers who had looked at what most accurately reflects college success. Except for the Ivys and a handful of cohort schools (for which the usual tests were good predictors), THE biggest factor for getting into a good school and doing wel when there was getting “A”s in high school — no matter how bad the school is. Students earning A grades in lousy high schools, it seems, graduate at higher percentages and earn better college grades than kids who are in the middle of the pack in top-notch schools.
So, if one has a really smart kid and is willing to shell out bucks for test prep and for travel sports, private drama or music, or whatever, having them be at the top of a lower level school may be the best thing for them if they are unable to earn top grades in their current school.
Even if they don’t earn a full scholarship, the tax savings alone may make it worth it.
#54 I agree. I think deflation has only just started. The tinder that would ignite inflation is cold and soaking wet.
On school taxes – I just learned that when one of us turns 62, we no longer have to pay the school portion of our property taxes. Our yearly tax bill will drop from 2500 down to 770.
out,
Where is that?
#41,
I may be drinking something but you tell me what’s wrong with this house for 128K in Roselle??
http://www.realtor.com/realestateandhomes-detail/330-Birch-Dr_Roselle-Boro_NJ_07203_1108378694
House like this, less than a mile away in Cranford will cost you $400K+
note on the opening article…Gerald Celente see’s the horrid economic future (meaning the big Depression squared) as beginning with tax revolts.
Are you sure that is not salary based also, like 62 plus under a certain income?
Outofstater says:
October 5, 2009 at 10:12 am
#54 I agree. I think deflation has only just started. The tinder that would ignite inflation is cold and soaking wet.
On school taxes – I just learned that when one of us turns 62, we no longer have to pay the school portion of our property taxes. Our yearly tax bill will drop from 2500 down to 770.
60 Frank
Those on the board (aside from you) that have chimed in about Roselle say it’s a bad area. Why else would a house like that go for 128? Unless its 5 years from now and the market has bottomed out.
#59 Cobb County, Georgia, northwest of Atlanta.
Interesting read on how home buyers attitudes changed since the 1970s.
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601039&sid=aeT_Yj3eanc4
John,
I know tht area a bit and I think the train is in the back yard. It is, as I recall a freight line. I am not saying the house is overpriced, but the train is a consideration.
#62 John – Don’t think so – here’s what the website says:
Cobb County School Tax – Homeowners who are 62 years of age on or before January 1 are entitled to exemption from all taxes in the school general and school bond tax categories. You must furnish proof of age when you apply
Out,
Is tht statewide? If so, we may put coastal GA on our list.
House hunter.
The in the 30’s the US had huge (largely) untapped energy reserves available, room for social and industrial expansion and a trade surplus.
We now have the opposute fo all 3.
what reserves does NJ have available?
I was in long island this weekend visiting the in-laws. i saw a nice campaign sign…
“Tax Revolt – Elect John Mangano”
(the exact name may be off)
Freedy,
1) Graft
2) Proximity to NY
3) Refining and petrochemical storage
4) Chutzpa
#63,
Roselle is not a great town, I admit it, but Cranford nor Westfield is not 4 times better.
Outofstater says:
October 5, 2009 at 10:20 am
WOW, I wonder if you can have kids in school and still get it. I will be 62 still when I have a kid in HS. Heck my friend is plannning on having three and just had his first at 44. Woody Johnson who is like a Billionaire who is heir to Johnson and Johnson fortune is 62 and has a two year old and a four year old son. Heck Tony Randal had kids in his 70’s. Seems to good to be true. In NY you have to be over 62 and make under a certain amount and have no kids in public schools to get it.
#62 John – Don’t think so – here’s what the website says:
Cobb County School Tax – Homeowners who are 62 years of age on or before January 1 are entitled to exemption from all taxes in the school general and school bond tax categories. You must furnish proof of age when you apply
Tax assessment question for the experienced in-house experts. (you know who you are)
If we buy a house with an in-ground pool and immediately remove the pool and fill it in with dirt, can we expect to get a re-assessment to lower our tax bill? and by how much? Current taxes with pool are about $10K.
It would probably only be worth it to do this if we could shave $1,000 off the tax bill.
#68 Shore – No, I don’t think it is statewide; I think it varies by county. Find a place you’d like and then check out the county website to be sure.
Freedy,
Silent Green!!!!!!
Freedy
Soilent Green
Veto,
For many a pool is such a pain in the @$$ thst filling it in would be a property improvement.
“what reserves does NJ have available?”
If there was a way to convert toxic waste into energy, we’d be like Texas.
#74 John – I think so. Our youngest will still have 4 years of high school to go when we are relieved of the school tax burden. We may pay it anyway, just to be fair about it.
“You’d be assassinated within weeks of declaring.”
Clot,
the sad thing is tat we are in a boat that is taking on water faster than we can bail but, because we have been taking on water for years and have not yet sunk, people think this is unfortunate but okay. There comes a point, whether from hitting rougher seas or just the shere volume of water in the bilge, tht we are likely to sink.
Unfortunately, everyone is so tied to their own piece of various budgets that they are unwiling to make hard choices. In the final analysis, unless eveyone accepts that they need to give up some (much?) of what they are accustomed to receiving from government we will all give up nearly everything in the collapse.
“You’d be assassinated within weeks of declaring.”
Clot,
the sad thing is tat we are in a boat that is taking on water faster than we can bail but, because we have been taking on water for years and have not yet sunk, people think this is unfortunate but okay. There comes a point, whether from hitting rougher seas or just the shere volume of water in the bilge, tht we are likely to sink.
Unfortunately, everyone is so tied to their own piece of various budgets that they are unwiling to make hard choices. In the final analysis, unless eveyone accepts that they need to give up some (much?) of what they are accustomed to receiving from government we will all give up nearly everything in the collapse.
69 kettle, agreed…to make comparisons to the 30’s style depression, and what could come our way is nonsense…just compare the debt levels of those back then, the only way out is writting this crap down and no one wants to address it.
Stu,
Or liberal hot air.
House/Ket,
Ahh, but inflation “is beyond the government’s control” thus, inflationary writedowns are not the same as an outright default. Therefore, we get to trumpet that the USG has always mage good on its debt, even if inflation resulted in its paying pennies on the thousand dollars.
[51] kettle,
It absolutely does work as a financed entity (and I have some ideas on that which are in the tax shelter vein), but if you are talking about playing foreclosure chicken, then no, you are defeating the purpose over the long term as that can only work for an income-generating property (and I include unpaid mortgage as income generating)
“For many a pool is such a pain in the @$$ that filling it in would be a property improvement.”
Agreed.
What an eye sore.
Has anyone been in any of the townhouses on the Hackensack River in Secaucus?
We just closed 4 magazines today.
Which? I thought the goal was to cut frequency.
Kettle (54),
You called this debt destruction and deflation back in 2007. Not bad for a Janitor.
How do you factor what Fed is doing to slow the destruction by printing,0% rates, TARP, TALF, and all the other liquidity programs where worthless paper got transfered to the tax payers balance sheet?
It seems like we are destroying a porion of debt the old fashion way and leaving it for inflation to do the rest.
[53] john,
That is assuming that they even live in the school district. Big problem in DC with a charter or magnet school and the families in PG county (incl a lot of asians) were claiming residency to get their kids in, but did not actually live in the district.
Note to border jumpers: If you don’t live in the District, don’t drop off the kids in a car with MD plates. Duh!
[57] shore
While I appreciate that the research supports my premise, it doesn’t do so fully. That research says that good performers in worse schools will perform better in college. That is a “cream always rises to the top” premise. I agree, but that is not my point.
I think that the hardest thing about college is getting in. If being at the top of your class gets you there, then it is better to compete against a lesser pool of talent. That is my (avaricious) premise. Further, there is often scholarship money for top performers, and that is going to be based on grades.
So, I don’t think I would mind if Ellery attends H.S. in a town with a poorer student population that can’t compete with her since she will best them for grades and scholarships.
hat tip to mlimplode…
http://www.reuters.com/article/ousivMolt/idUSTRE5932WU20091005
CIT and Goldman link…
does anyone think we have visitors going
to our schools in NJ?
our blue ribbon , of course
Nom,
“So, I don’t think I would mind if Ellery attends H.S. in a town with a poorer student population that can’t compete with her since she will best them for grades and scholarships.”
Smart thing to do would be to raise your kid(s) in a haughty taughty town with top schools and then move to the poorer district at the end of 8th grade.
Of course, your child might perform terribly just to spite you for making her take classes at Shabazz X high school.
Make 92:
the short version; the amount being printed and “accounted” away is miniscule compared to the big picture. The real catch is the globalization aspect. Pre-globalization you could isolate effects. But now, due to globalization, the exact opposite happens. you can have monetary effects magnified due to the interconnectedness of the financial and economic systems on a global scale.
Even simpler version:
dS= dQ/T
shabazz, great english programs ,,
Barry speak
“I think that the hardest thing about college is getting in.”
The top schools get overwealmed by applications from the same old top high schools. As these top schools tend to be run by a pack of guilty-feeling liberals, a top-of-the-class applicant from a poor school — especially one with high test scores — would, I suspect, have a leg up on the competition.
Gator (90)-
I heard Gourmet was one of them. True?
Stu,
Heck, move in summer between Jr and Sr. yr if one is not looking to maximize the property tax advantages.
Say it t’aint so, Gator.
Modern Bride? holy crap, what will we do now with only 30 Bridal Magazines!
http://mediadecoder.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/10/05/conde-nast-to-close-gourmet-magazine/?hp
#90 – We just closed 4 magazines today.
Is Ms. Wintour looking for a new job?
No 89??
The ones built by KHOV? Or the newer ones going up at bottom of street (Paterson Plank Rd)? Both are considered to be in 100 years flood plain, so mortgage (if you go that way) may require additional flood insurance.
Cookie and Gourmet apparently got cut. Not sure on the other 2.
Quick little update on my purchase:
My Wife and I went to sign the contract last week to only walk away empty handed. Immediately after we signed our 6th copy of the agreement the sellers Attorney called my Agent and requested we not sign the contract until he make additional changes. It was my understanding these changes would be made in Attorney review, not prior to signing the agreement he drafted!
I’m guessing it was their way to squeeze out another open house weekend. One sticking point was the seller and I agreed not show the house once the contract was signed. He claims that is illegal despite both parties agreeing to it. I call B.S. and will give them 1 more day for the edits before I drop my offer price or just walk. Based on the first round of negotiations they should know I mean business and realize I don’t “need” the house.
#150 – 105 – Sean – Conde had something like 3 different bridal mags. Modern Bride, Elegant Brides and, finally, Brides. That’s just silly.
As long as they keep publishing Your Prom I think I can manage.
Deflation fare thee well
Caterpillar to Raise Prices Up to 2% Next Year
http://www.cnbc.com/id/33175859
I went to the mall this weekend and looks like all the great deals are gone. Last fall and early spring was an awesome time to shop, but now, it looks like the retailers have pared down their inventory significantly.
Damn, should have picked up more clothes earlier in the year.
BTW, the mall was packed to the gills.
#111 And that will accomplish what exactly for them? Increased demand?
Raul,
I think Shore meant the development right off of route 3. Right along the riverbank with a lovely view of Xanadu and all the toxicity that a superfund site has to offer…nice! I remember when townhouses were listed for $899,000-999,000.. ha!
The ones on Pat Plank Road are still empty for the most part… I think I remember energy efficiency being the big pitch for that development. These units are much smaller though, commanding only $349K @ peak.
The ones I was asking about are on street with “key” names. I think one was Sandpieper Key. They are south of 3 and north of the railroad bridge. They look west over the river.
Just curious.
90#, you could have saved them if you had copied some posts here to these magazines.
by the way, i got my first and last issue of conde nast portfolio.
good luck!
>NJGator says:
October 5, 2009 at 10:53 am
We just closed 4 magazines today.
My favorite Bride mag is Trashy Bride.
The articles about whether to cover the tramp stamp, or find a dress with a cutout to show it are priceless.
Love this example of what can happen to Americas manufacturing base. More “value” brought to us by the financial world.
Ho hum. Reap what you sow.:
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/05/business/economy/05simmons.html?_r=1&hp
Buyout Firms Profited as a Company’s Debt Soared
Simmons says it will soon file for bankruptcy protection, as part of an agreement by its current owners to sell the company — the seventh time it has been sold in a little more than two decades —
…. But Thomas H. Lee Partners of Boston has not only escaped unscathed, it has made a profit. The investment firm, which bought Simmons in 2003, has pocketed around $77 million in profit, even as the company’s fortunes have declined.
….Wall Street investment banks also cashed in. They collected millions for helping to arrange the takeovers and for selling the bonds that made those deals possible. All told, the various private equity owners have made around $750 million in profits from Simmons over the years.
How so many people could make so much money on a company that has been driven into bankruptcy is a tale of these financial times and an example of a growing phenomenon in corporate America.
…Every step along the way, the buyers put Simmons deeper into debt. The financiers borrowed more and more money to pay ever higher prices for the company, enabling each previous owner to cash out profitably.
But the load weighed down an otherwise healthy company. Today, Simmons owes $1.3 billion, compared with just $164 million in 1991, when it began to become a Wall Street version of “Flip This House.”
Bets on how long before the wrecking ball, or an unfortunate electrical fire, eliminates Xanadu from the skyline?
Shore -don’t you mean “Redneck Bride”.
#112 – Victorian – I suppose it depends on where/when you shop. I’m still finding some great deals from Brooks & Hickey and C21 and Gilt have had some awesome deals.
Second try,
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/05/business/economy/05simmons.html?_r=1&hp
Buyout Firms Profited as a Company’s Debt Soared
Simmons says it will soon file for bankruptcy protection, as part of an agreement by its current owners to sell the company — t
How so many people could make so much money on a company that has been driven into bankruptcy is a tale of these financial times and an example of a growing phenomenon in corporate America.
…Every step along the way, the buyers put Simmons deeper into debt. The financiers borrowed more and more money to pay ever higher prices for the company, enabling each previous owner to cash out profitably.
But the load weighed down an otherwise healthy company. Today, Simmons owes $1.3 billion, compared with just $164 million in 1991, when it began to become a Wall Street version of “Flip This House.”
“Bets on how long before the wrecking ball”
Shore,
Bring on your wrecking ball.
IMO, the best part of Secaucus is the 7 minute connect to Penn via the Secaucus junction. $4 for train and if not a drop and roll $10 for parking.
The Edgewater/Port Imperial ferry comes close but the costs can become prohibitive at $7-9 each way plus parking.
BC,
So were you one of the people giving Bruce a lift back to the stage on Saturday?
Gary -this vision of corporate h@ll is just for you:
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/05/business/economy/05simmons-side.html
New employees at the headquarters of the Simmons Bedding Company got a little book containing 84 sayings of their boss, Charlie Eitel.
Saying No. 1: “In order to create a viable vision you must answer one very fundamental question, ‘What do you really want?’ ”
Mr. Eitel’s vision for Simmons was shaped by a corporate philosophy called the Great Game of Life,which is supposed to turn a company into a team. He once had the company hire an artist to paint a mural representing the river of life for a strategy meeting at a resort.
“Everybody put their boat on the river, and it represented that you were floating down the river of your dreams,” recalled Greg Moore, who worked in Simmons’s human resources department from 2002 until 2007 and supported Mr. Eitel’s approach.
Shore [124],
Yep. We got into the pit early, but decided to stand at the back of the pit, center stage. During HH, he was 3 feet away. When security lifted him, into the pit, he was passed to us. I had his shoulder, my wife his leg, upper leg. LOL.
The show was a blast.
BC Bob says:
October 5, 2009 at 12:16 pm
Shore [124],
Hope his Depends were on securely.
Yep. We got into the pit early, but decided to stand at the back of the pit, center stage. During HH, he was 3 feet away. When security lifted him, into the pit, he was passed to us. I had his shoulder, my wife his leg, upper leg. LOL.
The show was a blast.
So she told you, lol
BC,
I never understood why people purchase movies on DVD. I mean, how many times can you watch the same damn movie? Where do you find the time and even if you did, why would you?
Then I came here and read repeated postings about Bruce. If I’m correct, some of you have seen his recent shows more than six times. Damn.
“So she told you, lol”
Shore,
She actually told me that she had his lower leg. I know better.
You obviously have not seen Jenna Jamison movies.
zieba says:
October 5, 2009 at 12:25 pm
BC,
I never understood why people purchase movies on DVD. I mean, how many times can you watch the same damn movie? Where do you find the time and even if you did, why would you?
Then I came here and read repeated postings about Bruce. If I’m correct, some of you have seen his recent shows more than six times. Damn.
Zieba [129],
Each show is a different movie.
I’ve seen the band about 70 times. However, that’s over a stretch of more than 20 years.
Zieba,
No different than John owning season tickets to the Jets. Why pay to see the same team every home game?
Nom, so instead of moving to Warren like I’m thinking, should I consider bridgewater or plainfield to move my kid up the HS class ranks?
Also I’m seriously wondering about my kid’s race classification strategy. White girl gets few afirmative action benefits. Asian is even worse, I assume. I think the accurate Other-mixed race is her best bet into a good college, particularly if she can make up stories of overcoming oppression, or being called a “mongrel”. I hear asian gets you reverse discrimination some colleges.
John,
They don’t only show their t#ts at Jet games.
Shore/Sean,
Did you catch that on the big screen?
Yea,
Wasn’t sure I saw what I thought I saw. I am surprised it is not on YouTube.
#111,
“Deflation fare thee well, Caterpillar to Raise Prices Up to 2% Next Year”
Another reason to own hard asset like a house.
#75,
It’s all about comps, no one cares about the pool.
yes own a home in NJ. highest property
tax in the country.
and getting higher,, wait till johhny
get reelected..
I went to the laurel, MD mall last week.
The food court which had spaces for 6 food vendors had 5 of the spots vacant. Burlington Coat Factory was the only remaining anchor store.
That place is bust.
I think that either a mall is doing well/ok or it is sinking into oblivion.
I recently rented a place.
I can tell you that in MD the rental market is extremely week. I obtained a larger place, closer to work, for a cheaper price.
I was renting a place for 1250$ a month and now I’m renting a larger place for 1150$ a month.
The place I moved into has severe problems also. There is one “For Sale” sign posted in this community but clearly something else is brewing beneath the surface.
Each townhome has two assigned parking spaces. With 32 townhomes at the end of the cul-de-sac that I live in there should be 64 assigned parking spots. I marked the closest 64 parking spots and count the number of occupied parking spots over several days. This allows me to identify the “average” number of cars owned by people in the townhomes.
I counted on average 35 empty parking spots per night.
Either 100% of the people only have one car and a few have no cars OR more realistically 25% of the townhomes are unoccupied.
Shadow Inventory?
Zieba,
No different than John owning season tickets to the Jets. Why pay to see the same team every home game?
BC
Feel free to through my Knicks re runs. Now that Isiah is gone there isn’t any off court drama either.
No. 115
Those are the Harmon Cove townhomes, they are older, some have decent size interiors. Very quiet section, you hardly ever hear anything in Secaucus about them. Pretty much in the outlet section of Secaucus off of Meadowlands parkway.
make,
You make a compelling argument.
yes, off ML pkwy. That is it.
Maybe Kin Jon for Gov is a good idea. he will be term limited and as such can turn his back on everyone who got him elected. In essence, he can scre-w everyone without any downside politically.
since nothing can get fixed without eeryone taking a hit. Johnny may be the state’s only hope.
Gator-
Will Epicurious.com remain? Please say yes.
final blow will be him reconnecting with
Karla to push it over the top.
even though she got tossed,, still has the
power of the PPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPP
“It’s all about comps, no one cares about the pool.”
Frank, 138 – Sorry buddy. Wrong.
In-ground pool increases the assessment,
thus increases the prop tax.
NJC,
Get your hearing back yet?
It is especially mind boggling to me why the truly well off would live in Westchester when CT is right next door and property taxes are 250% less. If you are in the market for a multimillion dollar house, you could afford to send your kids to private school for difference in tax burden state to state. Given that a sizeable share of revenues likely come from this segment of the market, it is hard to understand how this inblanace sustainable.
veto [150],
Maybe his Mexican quants would be interested in a side job?
Shore-
Yeah- just in time for Social Distortion on Wednesday.
cool.
Social Distortion, great band. I will be there on Wed. Is Bruce playing Wed night? If not, maybe he will show up onstage with Mike Ness again.
Clot -(18)
I wish the fed government would raise taxes for every cent it over spends. American is being run by a private equity firm. Taking income now while paralyzing the country with debt. Just like the NY Times article today – Profits for Buyout Firms as Company Debt Soared
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/05/business/economy/05simmons.html?ref=business
US and Chinese history will remember the day that the fed bought treasuries.
NJC
We’re supposed to see Social D in AC on the 17th. I’m not sure if we’re gonna make it at this point.
yeah, Social D,
good music…
gerry (157)-
I think a giant, out-of-control country that writes itself IOU notes is really cool.
However, I don’t want to be alive when the whole fraudulent scheme comes unwound.
Veto (15)-
“…take away my ball and chain”
#159, that is.
We won’t need any food magazines once we’re all eating homemade rat jerky.
Gourmet, edited by Ruth Reichl and revered by many culinary aficionados, was launched in 1941 by Earle R. MacAusland as “the magazine of good living.” It was known for more than just recipes: It dived into extended discourse about travel, wine and food, such as the 2004 piece in which David Foster Wallace argued against the practice of boiling lobsters to death.
Now, Conde Nast said, Gourmet’s brand will live on in books and TV programming. It also plans to keep publishing Gourmet recipes on Epicurious.com.
“Magazine consultant Martin Walker said closing Gourmet makes financial sense because Bon Appetit should be able to pick up many of the magazine’s subscribers and advertisers. Many advertisers were trending toward food titles with a more affordable sensibility anyway, he said, and it would have been hard to pull off the reverse, and expect Bon Appetit advertisers to switch to the more upscale Gourmet.”
Zieba,
I’m just a casual Bruce fan. On the other hand, Chris Christie is hard core;
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/30/nyregion/30springsteen.html?_r=1
re: #135 -BC_BoB a nice set too, and I don’t mean the play list.
I’m obviously totally uncool. I’ve never heard of a single band NJCoast has ever mentioned.
#75, check with the town Tax Assesor. I am told in my town the increase is not that much as many buyers do not want a pool for a variety of reasons.
#146 So what you are saying is trust Jon but not because he’s earned it but because you think he has no one left to screw over?
Oh yeah, give him four more years without him caring about the end game and see how that thoery works….. I’m sure acts of patronage would be the last thing on this mind.
#150,
Good luck trying to lower it by telling them that you filled up your pool.
Saw a great bumper sticker… ‘Honk if im paying your mortgage.’
But the ‘O’ in honk is the fancy BO style O used in the campaign.
Have to buy one of those.
I think Mr. Christie is more into the Premio Sausagesr rather than the show on the main stage, cause he was definitely NOT born to run! Well maybe for office that is.
This one Veto?
http://pol2.americanfuturefund.com/images/affpa_honk_click_email.jpg
I don’t know if I support the organization selling the stickers, but they are pretty clever.
Speaking of malls, 5pm on Sunday at the Mall at Short Hills, finding parking was not easy.
thats it Stu, why who’s selling them?
Veto…try Google. It’s this nifty website that let’s you search for things.
Ok stu i’ll see if i can get explanation of why you dont support that organization, by searching google.
Ha ha.
I’m just playing with you Francis.
Ha, i had my two year old calling my wife ‘Francis Lewis’ all day yesterday.
It was pretty hillarious.
But after the third timw, I think she wanted to kill me.
Francis Lewis Boulevard is a boulevard in the New York City borough of Queens. The roadway is named for Francis Lewis, a Queens resident who was a signer of the United States Declaration of Independence. I
yeah John that sign started the whole thing.
Shore,
I have been to some of the townhouse in Secaucus. Are you talking about the Riverside court close to Rt. 3 or the new one along the Plank road?
The 2-bedroom in Riverside court is pretty small. Some may convert the family room into 3rd bedroom. But it is too small. The only 3-bedroom on the market is asking for $900K. Insane price. It seems the tax is pretty high too ( I don’t have a solid number )
I am kind of interested in the 3-bedroom townhouse at the very end of the Plan Road. It is said that the total square footage is 3000. But I have not checked it yet. The current asking price is $650K, which I find hard to justify in the current market.
There is another new town house community developed by Centex along the mill creek road. The size is bigger ( >2400 ft). Recently, the price has been reduced to $469K to $520K. But the house will not be available next year( Jan or May).
If the builder can let the 3000 ft townhouse in Plank Rd go for $520k-$550K. I may bite.
Another low volume pump today. In meetings all day so I couldn’t fade it. May have to use the after hours market, but I always hate the spreads.
Darn…….
Clotpol, even I almost threw my cookies up when I saw this.
AMERICAN GEN FIN MEDTM SRNT BE 5.62500% 08/17/2011FR
Price 94.477
I like my blood bath warm please.
John (183)-
That’s a slaveship of doom.
Looks like Tall Paul knows a thing or two about zombie banks…and his experience didn’t come from ding battle with them:
Richard C. Koo – former economist at the Federal Reserve Bank of New York and doctoral fellow with the Fed’s Board of Governors, and now chief economist for Nomura – confirmed last year in a speech to the Center for Strategic & International Studies that most of the giant money center banks were insolvent in the 1980s.
Specifically, Koo said:
After the Latin American crisis hit in 1982, the New York Fed concluded that 7 out of 8 money center banks were actually “underwater”.
http://tinyurl.com/ye94ju3
All the foreign banks (especially the Japanese banks) had to keep their lending facilities open to American banks so the American banking system didn’t collapse overtly and out in the open.
The Fed knew that virtually all of the American banks were “bankrupt”, but could not publicly discuss how bad the situation was. If went out and said the “American banks are bankrupt”, the next day they will go overtly go bankrupt. So the Fed had to come up with a lot of stories like “its good debt on their books”.
Then-chairman Volcker instructed the banks to keep lending to the Mexican dictator so that the Mexican economy didn’t totally collapse, because – if Mexico collapsed – it would become obvious that all of the U.S. banks were underwater, and they would immediately collapse.
It took 13 years to manage the crisis (at another point in the talk, Koo says 15 years).
The way that Volcker approached the problem was that he allowed U.S. banks to keep their lending rates relatively high, while the central bank brought short-term rates down. The spread between the two (the “fat spread”) became revenue for the banks, and the banks used the high fat spread to gradually write off problem loans and to repair their balance sheets.
Volcker’s covert rescue of the American banks using secrecy and a high fat spread didn’t cost U.S. taxpayers a cent.
Koo points out that you can’t use the fat spread approach where there are no borrowers.
Not when you bought it at 46, but who the heck is buying it now.
Schumpeter says:
October 5, 2009 at 4:13 pm
John (183)-
That’s a slaveship of doom.
Cli,
The new development along Millcreek road is adjacent to the brand new recreation center… which in turn is adjacent to the water treatment plant. The air stinks, which is okay because half a million won’t buy you a balcony or a back yard.
While the midtown skyline serves as the backdrop looking east, you are surrounded by swampland.
I read that the rec center was on hold for a while because soil samples were bad (as was the case with Xanadu) whether this situation was rectified with cleanup or a bribe is unknown.
Translation; stay the fæck away.
Fuzzy math at it’s best.
26% of those that laid off plan to hire again.
23% of those have already done so.
Doesn’t this mean that at the present time 94% of those that have laid off have not hired back employees yet?
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Employers-Begin-Rehiring-the-cnbc-417264186.html?x=0&sec=topStories&pos=5&asset=&ccode=
How Urban Planners Caused the Housing Bubble
20,000 jobs in Guam a US Territory going to foreigners?
At the center of the debate is one of the biggest construction projects on the U.S. government’s “to do” list: a roughly $15 billion military base expansion that is expected to require some 20,000 construction workers starting next year. Guamanian Americans will fill some of the jobs, but most are expected to go to foreign workers from the Philippines, China, and South Korea.
If it hadn’t been for the recession and climbing joblessness in the United States, the project might have gone forward in obscurity — as often happens on the remote Pacific island.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/33129102/ns/us_news-military/
182#, how do you know it’s low volume day?
any link? or volume must be light since it’s up?
>Hooba says:
October 5, 2009 at 4:06 pm
Another low volume pump today. In meetings all day so I couldn’t fade it. May have to use the after hours market, but I always hate the spreads.
Darn…….
Sorry for the lack of responses. It’s been a very long, tiring, sad day here.
For those who asked, Epicurious is not going anywhere. All other info posted from news reports seems accurate as well (for now)
[190] sg
graffiti from an MIT bathroom:
“Urban Planners Eat Their Dead”
[193] gator
I hear Cookie is kaput. Good. One less useless mag lying in our living room (useless because they recycle the same stories—I swear I am reading the same things I read for my first child).
From the Press of Atlantic City:
Casinos cut 1,000 jobs in September
Casinos slashed more than 1,000 jobs in September in the traditional post-Labor Day employment cutback.
…
Nearly 3,800 jobs have been lost in the past 12 months, figures show. Employment is down to a level not seen since the late 1980s and well below the peak of 51,560 jobs in July 1997.
#196 – That’s going to be rough on S Jersey. The casinos are one of the few decent paying jobs in the area.
gator,
I had never heard of epicurious. Had to look it up.
To earn the wrath of bi is an honor indeed:
NYSE VOL (MIL) 1,114
-20.49% -287
Granted it is compared to the previous day and not the 20 or 50 ema. Significant for a 1% move up.
199#, link?
from NYSE website and from yahoo, it is 5B shares traded today for NYSE listed.
So i don’t know where your numbers come from.
Besides, nowadays a lot of shares are traded at dark pool/crossing etc.
http://finance.yahoo.com/q?s=%5ETV.N
zieba
Do you know the development at the very end of Plank Rd, those new 3000ft townhouses?
The current asking price is $650K. If the price can be lower, I may by very interested.
[47] [prior thread] BC
Since you asked
Here are some twofers for you.
Two things I won’t pay to see:
1. Bruce
2. BC
Two colors you won’t find me in at the same time:
1. Maroon
2. Gold
My two favorite college teams:
1. UMass
2. Whoever is playing BC
[155] shore
Less of a hazard than you may think, though open to attack
First, mi1itias, other than state ones, are outlawed in a number of states
Second, even if you didn’t outlaw them, their activities could be deemed consp1ratorial, and thus outlawed.
Third, some states (NJ chief among them) make it illegal for private citizens to buy and wear body armor.
[203]
bad citation
That should be [155][prior thread] Shore
Secondary,
“I call B.S. and will give them 1 more day for the edits before I drop my offer price or just walk. Based on the first round of negotiations they should know I mean business and realize I don’t “need” the house.”
Walk. Do it. For the car I currently drive, I bought it out of state. I did all my due diligence and made an offer for 24.5k, subject to passing a mechanics inspection. I said send the paperwork and I’ll be driving down tomorrow to pick up the car. Night before I’m to go down, I say where is my paperwork and he says his partner thought price was too low. If I paid $25k they would consider selling it. I got a good deal, true value was probably about $27-28k. I told them forget it, I don’t need a car, I have one already. Nice talking w/ you. Got a call back that evening and they signed and sent the paperwork. Never get emotionally wrapped up in the deal. Good luck.
A case of too little, too late? Will home-builders in the North-East get the message?
MGM Mirage Cuts Price on Multi-Billion Condo Project by 30%
MGM Mirage is cutting the price of the condos at its $8.5 billion City Center development by 30% due to the economic downturn, the company announced Monday.
The move was anticipated to address a growing backlash from people who signed contracts on condos in the 2,440-unit complex during the height of Las Vegas real-estate boom. Many had said they would have trouble closing on those units now that financing has become harder to obtain and the market in Las Vegas for luxury condos has crashed.
More at: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB125477639790365683.html?mod=WSJ_hps_LEFTWhatsNews#articleTabs%3Dcomments
Fuzzy math at it’s best.
26% of those that laid off plan to hire again.
23% of those have already done so.
Doesn’t this mean that at the present time 94% of those that have laid off have not hired back employees yet?
Lets see if we can simplify this example to make the math stronger for you.
Of those that have laid off workers, 26% say they plan to rehire workers in the future. 23% of those that said they would rehire workers have already done so.
This leaves 77% of companies that laid off workers and said that they would rehire in the future waiting in the wings to employ people.
0.26 * 0.77 = Approx 0.20
20% of employers that fired workers are still planning on hiring at some point in the future.
74% of companies that fired people have no intention of rehiring workers from this point forward.
6% of companies have already hired back workers.
The reason why this is so significant is because the birth/death model for job creation and job destruction take this into consideration because they can detect when someone goes on the unemployed dole.
A company would normally fire someone because they thought they could get a better deal from another worker or some other reason. The job remains but the person working the job changes.
In this downturn what we are seeing is that the job is being destroyed. The birth/death model is estimating that a job is being created when it isn’t. Employment numbers look better than they should.
After making the same estimation mistake for one year we end up with an over estimate of 825,000.
Hooba (199)-
The wrath of bi is also a screaming buy signal. See: Theory, Costanza.
“To earn the wrath of bi is an honor indeed”
Dr. Robert Doback: We’re putting the house on the market.
Dale Doback: Where are we moving?
Brennan Huff: Is the house haunted?
Dr. Robert Doback: Nancy and I are retiring and sailing around the world on my boat. We are living the dream.
Dale Doback: Well what about us?
Nancy Huff: I- I’m sorry. Robert… we thought that you should take responsibility for your own lives.
Dr. Robert Doback: And this is the exciting part. We’re gonna put enough money in your accounts for a security deposit on an apartment.
Dale Doback: What’s this all about?
Nancy Huff: Um, more than just money. We’re gonna get you another kind of support as well.
Dr. Robert Doback: You’re both gonna see therapists. Nancy thinks it’ll help. And guys, that’s non-negotiable.
Brennan Huff: Hold on. We’re not going on the boat, Derek’s selling the house, we have to go to therapy?
[Robert nods]
Brennan Huff: WHAT THE F*CK HAPPENED?
Nicholas 207-
My point about the math was not the math itself, but the headline above it. I clicked on the link because it read, “Employers Begin Rehiring the Laid Off”. Out of 3000 +/- hiring managers 180 are bringing some workers back. Plenty of reasons to both hire and fire. But I hardly believe that 180 companies that are bringing some employees back for whatever reason signifies any sort of rebound.
281 Daniels Ln NY 11963 21 beds, 18.0 baths, 43,031 sq ft
Close Zestimate®: $205,198,500
Last sale and tax info
2008 Property Tax: $483,743
http://www.zillow.com/homedetails/281-Daniels-Ln-NY-11963/32729233_zpid/
Nom 195 – Cookie folding is not a shock. There wasn’t much of a future in this economic environment for a magazine geared towards the IB set advising them about what overpriced ,useless items to buy for Lil Graydon and Ellery. Now that they’re going to have to leave Dalton and attend public school, mommy can shop at Target just like the rest of us.
Ira Rennert Mansion is Largest Home in the U.S.
http://www.zillow.com/blog/ira-rennert-mansion-is-largest-home-in-the-us/2009/09/30/
I am sad about the rest of the titles folding. There are now about 200 more folks looking for work in an industry that won’t be looking to hire anyone anytime soon. And this is probably not the last of the bad news.
And here I was thinking Cookie was a culinary magazine dedicated to my personal dietary and religious lifestyle, cookietarianism.
For a split second, I thought I was missing out on perhaps the greatest magazine of all time.
So I nav to the site, and what do I see? Free-trade Peruvian Mittens? Perfect for Graydon and Ellery. No shortage of $600 strollers either. Bah, good riddance.
Made a fantastic chocolate cookie out of the June 2008 issue of Bon Appetit though. Had this crazy almost-meringue base. Was the taste equivalent of loading 55 pounds of chocolate into a 50,000 ton closed-die press and compressing it into bite-sized cocoa euphoria.
My wife got that cookbook where she packs healthy shit into stuff like brownies….Meh.
I actually think we need less magazines. Obama will ensure that each interest group is covered by at least one publication.
Next Bailout: The Media.
“Suppose a theory asserts that a certain policy will cure a depression. The government, obedient to the theory, puts the policy into effect. The depression is not cured. The critics and advocates of the theory now leap to the fore with interpretations. The critics say that failure proves the theory incorrect. The advocates say that the government erred in not pursuing the theory boldly enough, and that what is needed is stronger measures in the same direction.”
– Murray Rothbard, America’s Great Depression, 1963
Cookie was the worst. 350 dollar wool coats for 2 yrs olds. The worst of the worst in all of parentdom.
The best place to get kids clothes (and sell your old stuff) are the higher end consignment shops in nicer towns.
When I was in the “internet consulting” bidness (that other bubble)….InStyle came to us for some work…we met their head honcho, a woman who seemed to model herself directly from the woman in the Devil Wears Prada. It was fascinating hearing her talk about a “magalog”…her word. And how people would click and buy all of the crap that they saw celebs wear. She also drank hot water when she came — just Hot water please.
grim (215)-
I thought Cookie was a skin mag.
I bet John thought so, too.
#218,#220 Yuck. Maybe this downturn will permit people to drop the ridiculous facades and become real again. You have to wonder what kind of insecurities people feel that require them to spend money they don’t have to impress people who don’t care.
clot 186…exactly, let the banks get away with 0%, free tarp money that has no restrictions…just come to the window, lose it, and not have to pay it back or risk it and win big in a maniputlated stock market…because the write downs have to come…so get it while you can.
[213] yo’me
Now THAT is a Nompound!!!!!!
Yikes. Does he have some farms and ranches in other states so the food can be flown in? Or will he plow over the grass courts and nine holes?
Why did’t he just buy an island???
Reminds me once when we had a delivery sent to the managing partner of our practice at my previous firm. They guy came back and said “that’s not a house, its an embassy.”
Gator-
I’m mourning the loss of Gourmet. I’ve had a subscription for over 20 years and I’ve saved most of them.
Epicurious is great for recipe lookups but nothing can replace the articles in the magazine especially the ones on travel.
Over the years I’ve fed many bands whole menus right out of Gourmet.
It will be missed.
[218] barbara
That is why I want Cookie gone. Before the wife gets any more ideas.
hunter (224)-
It’s all about building massive reserves against writedowns that are guaranteed to come.
Only problem is, the writedowns will wipe out any level of reserves that can possibly be built, and the collateral damage of massive piles of dead money lying fallow in reserve is the equivalent of a kill shot to the rest of the economy.
coast (226)-
Just give ’em all red, red meat. And season it with plenty of Veruca Salt.
Sorry to see Gourmet go. However, the world is a better place without that starfcuker Ruth Reichl.
No demand for self-pitying old skanks who can’t cook and get way too moist over mediocre chefs.
Thanks for the visual clot. *ew*
#200 bi
investors.com
Based on the NYSE composite index and not total exchange.
http://premium.investors.com/member/DgoGraphs/dgoGraphs.asp?cht=pvc&ibdMode=daily&t=0NYC&bhcp=1
Volume much less than during the recent down days.
Dark pools aren’t supposed to affect regular trading right? No need for transparency there.
P.S. fcuk you
I got a free subscription from Sur La Table in Livingston once….they closed that store real fast.
hooba-
You say:
“fcuk you”
bi hears:
“I love you”
I wanna see Obama do something right for a change. WTF!!!???
NJCoast 226 – Me too. There are many good people from Gourmet who are out of a job today – people who were with the magazine for a long time, and who I was proud to call my colleagues. It is a sad, sad day for me.
I wouldn’t be surprised to see Gourmet restart publication under another label, if not as an independent. I think they could get by with a higher cover price and fewer ads.
NJC,
I agree about Gourmet. I learned much about pairing flavors and textures, and about presentation, by reading it.
Just saying…
“In the most profound financial change in recent Middle East history, Gulf Arabs are planning – along with China, Russia, Japan and France – to end dollar dealings for oil, moving instead to a basket of currencies including the Japanese yen and Chinese yuan, the euro, gold and a new, unified currency planned for nations in the Gulf Co-operation Council, including Saudi Arabia, Abu Dhabi, Kuwait and Qatar.
Secret meetings have already been held by finance ministers and central bank governors in Russia, China, Japan and Brazil to work on the scheme, which will mean that oil will no longer be priced in dollars.
The plans, confirmed to The Independent by both Gulf Arab and Chinese banking sources in Hong Kong, may help to explain the sudden rise in gold prices, but it also augurs an extraordinary transition from dollar markets within nine years.”
[snip]
“The transitional currency in the move away from dollars, according to Chinese banking sources, may well be gold. An indication of the huge amounts involved can be gained from the wealth of Abu Dhabi, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait and Qatar who together hold an estimated $2.1 trillion in dollar reserves.”
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/the-demise-of-the-dollar-1798175.html
232#, another loser.
>Hooba says:
October 5, 2009 at 8:43 pm
gator (236)-
I’m sorry, too. However, there has to be a kernel of opportunity in all the upheaval.
234#, How is you srs doing recently? are you maintaining your $300 target price?
Grim,
No reason not to come back as a subscription web publication.
Clot 239,
i have said it many times, a basket currency with a gold component!
bi (242)-
As a matter of fact, I bought back in when it dipped below $9.50, and I sold when it topped $10. Thinking now about going back for another taste.
I have no target price. I’m not an an@lyst or an i-banker, jackass.
bi (242)-
Check the January SRS calls, fool.
” the wrath of bi ”
Sounds like a dodgey movie based on the Wrath of Kahn.
vodka (244)-
Props to you. And, welcome to Argentina. Try the chimichurri.
From the article referenced in #239. A not-so-subtle symptom of the new board game, Beggar Thy Neighbor:
“In a clear sign of China’s growing financial muscle, the president of the European Central Bank, Jean-Claude Trichet, yesterday pleaded with Beijing to let the yuan appreciate against a sliding dollar and, by extension, loosen China’s reliance on US monetary policy, to help rebalance the world economy and ease upward pressure on the euro.”
Maybe Beggar Thy Neighbor should be renamed Please Make Me a Whore.
245#, briliant trade. how about your shares bought at$130? all out at $10?
>As a matter of fact, I bought back in when it dipped below $9.50, and I sold when it topped $10. Thinking now about going back for another taste.
bi (250)-
Please write a short paragraph, demonstrating that you understand the concept of basis.
Then, write another one, demonstrating why you have such an unnatural interest in trades you haven’t put on.
Take your time.
Who gives a sh&t??
“In addition to shuttering Gourmet, Condé Nast said it was also killing parenting magazine Cookie and two wedding magazines, Elegant Bride and Modern Bride.”
Frank,
Don’t worry. Your subscription to ‘Out’ is safe.
frank (252)-
Please go back to shagging your sister.
Any Giants fans out there, or someone who has been to the stadium…I was looking to get tickets to a game for my husband and son for christmas…anyone know what side the Gaints sit on..is it the press box side (east I think)
that would be a big mistake to snag a ticket on the wrong side thanks in advance
251#, what is your basis now? $20’s, $30’s or $40’s?
>Please write a short paragraph, demonstrating that you understand the concept of basis.
bi (256)-
Fail. Try again.
In addition on the “Who gives a sh&t” channel….
Toxic-Asset Rescue Funds Start
Program Designed to Buy Mortgage-Tied Securities Will Launch Next Week
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB125475553527964757.html
Hey Beach Bum-
They’re lowballing in Belmar.
MLS# 20927947- 1905 A St.
4 bdr-2 bath
1 block to beach
Original list-6/11/08-$727,500
Closed-10/05/09-$480,000
man, the general public are so stupid, so disconnected from the real world its off the chart.
SAS
NJ Coast…ever wonder who is getting that deal? there have been a few in my area, sold prior to the mls listing showing us other guys what we missed ( think they have to list it even though it is sold). I saw two advertised recently and the last sentence of the description says “owner is a licensed real estate agent” some people are getting the deals. starting to acutally get me mad, and that takes a lot.
sas (260)-
Fortunately, God has given us Irish whiskey as a palliative.
Might be tippling a bit of Jameson as I type…
“Theyre lowballing in Belmar”
NJC,
Music to my ears! And, as properties close to the beach start dropping that puts huge pressure on the houses from E -Street (No, BC, not a Springsteen reference) east.
Isn’t the press box on the south side (Rt. 3 side) in Giants Stadium?
shore guy
http://www.giants.com/gameday/SeatingChart.asp
well, fall is the air.
and so is my nightly ritual:
warm milk & cognac.
Zzzzzz….
SAS
I feel so dated. I wanted to buy a house and die in it. I have two options: Buy in another state or die the day after my daughter’s graduation.
http://www.denverpost.com/news/ci_13452818#
Nature’s metaphor for buying a house today?
Better to buy a house to live in and not one that kills you. Today, the burden is still to great for too many.
RE Ratings, a bit broader than NJ vs. PA
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/33178495/ns/world_news/?GT1=43001
But the women are knockouts, and liberal.
Brennan Huff: Did we just become best friends?
Dale Doback: Yep!
[they high five each other]
Brennan Huff: Do you wanna do karate in the garage?
Dale Doback: Yep!