Can we really afford home rule?

From the Daily Record:

Do we really love home rule?

A recent poll says residents are not as enamored with their home towns as some think.

A Quinnipiac University poll asked residents if they would support merging school districts and municipalities to lower property towns. Some 73 percent said yes. Only 22 percent said no.

That response does not surprise us. Of course, a majority of New Jersey residents probably would agree to just about anything if the offer was accompanied by the words, “reducing property taxes.”

Notwithstanding, the results are interesting.

It is true that merging some towns and school districts is not going to solve the state’s property tax crisis. No one should think that. But merging jurisdictions and eliminating high-paid public jobs, and the benefits that go with them, would help.

Most of those who like home rule are those doing the ruling. That is why we do not see mergers.

Just about every recent governor has talked about reducing the more than 1,100 combined school districts and municipalities in New Jersey, but the talk does not go very far.

The record is clear. With rare exception, towns are not going to combine themselves. (One exception may be the Chesters in Morris County where a merger is being considered.) Before that, the last municipality to voluntarily “go out of business” was Pahaquarry in Warren County. The town had fewer than 50 full-time residents and most of it was parkland.

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261 Responses to Can we really afford home rule?

  1. danzud says:

    Fine, you’re first, I’m frist!!!!

  2. grim says:

    From the Star Ledger:

    Municipalities brace for steep cuts in state aid

    n Hope Township, Mayor Tim McDonough said he’s considering cuts to “sacred cows” like money for senior groups, food banks and recreation programs.

    Paterson Mayor Jose Torres said the city may trim budgets for police and fire protection.

    All across New Jersey, municipal officials are faced with grim cost-cutting choices as they brace for the possibility of unprecedented cuts to state aid by year’s end, leaving them little room to maneuver.

    Gov. Jon Corzine said Thursday he might give towns only a portion of a planned December payment to help patch a growing budget deficit that now stands at $1 billion.

    Faced with strained finances, municipalities are already scrambling for savings as they struggle to keep their heads above water, experts and government officials say.

    “This isn’t like the good old days, when you adopted the budget and you waited until the following June to put together another budget,” League of Municipalities Executive Director William Dressel said. “Now we’re going month to month, week to week.”

    On Wednesday, the state revealed it may freeze up to $400 million in payments to municipalities, schools, higher education, hospitals and pensions.

    To cope, towns could lay off workers, borrow money, cut services or spend surpluses. Next year, they may have to raise property taxes to compensate, Dressel said.

  3. Safeashouses says:

    There is no budget crisis. Just raise property taxes 50%, turn 80 & 287 into toll roads, and apply sales tax to all goods and services. Problem solved. You wouldn’t want public employees to have to make $20 copays to see a doctor now, would you?

  4. Dissident HEHEHE says:

    From Mish:

    Ben Bernanke Pleads For His Job; My Response to Bernanke

    Ben Bernanke is on yet another self-serving mission to save his job. Please consider The right reform for the Fed an op-ed by Ben Bernanke in the Washington Post.

    Here is Bernanke’s entire article (in italics) with my comments interspersed in plain type. Most of my comments are made straight to Ben Bernanke, but they apply in general to all central bankers.

  5. jamil says:

    FBI has nice benefits for bloggers..

    NEW JERSEY BLOGGER was on FBI payroll. “He used his website to establish his credibility, often posting content to incite those same groups.

    …received thousands of dollars from the FBI to report on neo-Nazis and white supremacist groups and was sent undercover to Brazil.

  6. lostinny says:

    Does anyone want any Old Navy coupons? I have a bunch of BBB also.

  7. Cindy says:

    7 Lost – I got a bunch of those too: “$10 off with a purchase of $50.”

    This article states “Americans Give Up the Credit Card For the Holidays” 24/7

    “Just over one-quarter of shoppers who made purchases over the Thanksgiving weekend used credit cards.”

    I guess that was less than expected…

    Maybe consumers are not willing to go into debt to buy gifts this year.

  8. lostinny says:

    8 Cindy
    These are $10 when you use your ON card doesn’t say anything about spending a certain amount. I also have something for 10% off.
    I only have 2 gifts left to get. And 2 that maybe I shouldn’t have bought so early. :)

  9. Schumpeter says:

    HE (5)-

    My favorite line from that Mish article:

    “The first thing any regulator in his right mind would do would be to shut down Fannie and Freddie, yet you and the Fed feed the beast, bloating your balance sheet with garbage in the process.”

    Phony/Fraudy/FHA are going down soon, and going down hard.

    Swear to God, I’ve spent three days away from the news, and coming back this AM, it’s like the world is spinning off its axis. We’re headed toward a brick wall at 110 mph, and all we get is Matt Lauer’s stupid-rictus face, talking about some nanny beating up a golfer with one of his clubs.

  10. Schumpeter says:

    lost (7)-

    Do those stores sell whiskey or ammo?

  11. Schumpeter says:

    Taking the family to see The Road to get the holiday spirit kindled.

  12. lostinny says:

    11 Schump

    Nope not that I know of.

  13. d2b says:

    Life Insurance quote-
    Asked for a 20 year term policy and my quote is for a policy with the initial 20 years fixed and then the cost of insurance skyrockets and lists premium amounts to age 95. Obviously I do not plan on keeping the policy after the initial 20 years.

    Is it common practice for term policies to list all of the extra years at the end like that?

  14. grim says:

    Pure anecdote, but for those familiar with card processing, we’ve seen a huge spike recently in “do not honor” and “credit floor” responses dealing with existing customers. Trend started about 2 weeks ago.

  15. Cindy says:

    15 – Grim 7 Lost –

    Interesting – Looking more closely at my coupons now I see “$10 off a purchase of $50 when you pay with any VISA CARD.” Three coupons with differing dates right up to 12/19.

    Gee, ya think they want me to charge something? Maybe I’d spend a bit more if I went to shop card in hand.

  16. John says:

    Yes required by law. It is making 100% sure consumer knows after 20 years if you renew you are screwed. 30 year policies are more expensive as less common and hard to price compare. However, at end of each year I would price compare my rate and if I beat the current rate I would switch insurers and restart clock at a new 20 years.

    d2b says:
    November 30, 2009 at 8:25 am
    Life Insurance quote-
    Asked for a 20 year term policy and my quote is for a policy with the initial 20 years fixed and then the cost of insurance skyrockets and lists premium amounts to age 95. Obviously I do not plan on keeping the policy after the initial 20 years.

    Is it common practice for term policies to list all of the extra years at the end like that?

  17. lostinny says:

    16 Cindy

    I saw a few similar things online. Too bad I never use a Visa card.

  18. Schumpeter says:

    Strange times make for strange bedfellows. Or, maybe an honest soci@list trumps a corrupt, disingenuous fascist. From Bernie Sanders:

    “No, I absolutely will not vote for Mr. Bernanke. He is part of the problem. He’s the smartest guy in the world, why didn’t he do anything to prevent us from sinking into this disaster that Wall Street caused and which he was a part of? No, I will not vote for Bernanke to stay on as chairman.”

  19. chicagofinance says:

    Yes…what if in year 19 you get sick and don’t die for 5 years? Even at those ridiculous rates for years 21,22,23,24, it is still worth the payoff in the end…

    14.d2b says:
    November 30, 2009 at 8:25 am
    Life Insurance quote-
    Asked for a 20 year term policy and my quote is for a policy with the initial 20 years fixed and then the cost of insurance skyrockets and lists premium amounts to age 95. Obviously I do not plan on keeping the policy after the initial 20 years.

    Is it common practice for term policies to list all of the extra years at the end like that?

  20. Sean says:

    re: #15 – Grim What Credit? Can’t wait until people start complaining of profiling again.

    Where is Al Sharpton when you need him?

    Banks have cut back on the number of cards they have issued, raised rates, weeded out the deadbeats, and the amount of credit available ahead of Christmas and the strict new credit card regulations set to take effect in February, the Credit Card Accountability, Responsibility and Disclosure Act of 2009 signed by Obama in May.


  21. chicagofinance says:

    Would you drink a whiskey with the name “ammo”? Kind of like the question…
    Who would win Ditka versus a hurricane?
    How about Ditka versus a hurricane named Ditka?

    11.Schumpeter says:
    November 30, 2009 at 8:19 am
    lost (7)-
    Do those stores sell whiskey or ammo?

  22. frank says:

    Online credit fraud has spiked big time in the last few weeks.

  23. chicagofinance says:

    Ammo whiskey…..brilliant!

  24. Schumpeter says:

    Totally fascinating. A narrative of five stinko CMBS, written in non-quant language. I’m going to read this whole thing later:

    Five CMBS stories, by Aaron Bryson, BarCap U.S. CMBS Strategy

    “For several months, we have expected an above-consensus increase in the pace of fixed-rate CMBS delinquencies, especially in recent vintages. The key driver, in our view, is the high volume of current, but high-risk loans, specifically those with most recent debt service coverage of 1.1x or less. Our core thesis is that there will be a much higher rate of delinquencies for such loans than in previous CMBS cycles, given the magnitude of property value declines and overall economic stress during this cycle. We have started to see this trend occur in recent months, and we expect it to escalate. In this article, we select five large, recent vintage fixed rate loans in different property types that are still current, but not covering debt service. With the assistance our surveillance team, we profile each loan in greater detail and attempt to explore borrower behaviour.”

  25. d2b says:

    20 chi, 17 John-
    So I should not worry about years after 20 since I know it’s a 20 year term policy?

  26. Cindy says:

    Sean – Have you read about this?

    “Why You Should Support the Lynch Amendment” Rortybomb

  27. Schumpeter says:

    chi (22)-

    Chuck Norris?

    “Who would win Ditka versus a hurricane?”

  28. Schumpeter says:

    chi (25)-

    Are you saying the trend is your friend?

  29. John says:

    Yes, your assumption is that policy will expire after 20 years. Two years ago I bought a 20 year term policy. Last year I switched as ING Relistar was offering it cheaper and the 20 year window started over agin. Mortality rates, your own health and how much the insurance company needs cash. ING was in a bit of a liquidity crisis last year so it greenlighted underwriters to approve new policies at aggressive rates. Over the course of 20 years this will happen 2-3 times, when it does jump on it and re-lock your lower rate and a new 20 years.

  30. d2b says:

    How solid is ING Relistar? This policy is with them but I thought that they had problems this year, as well.

  31. PGC says:

    #32 d2b

    Maybe this sheds some light. I wonder how ING RealEstate balance sheet looks these days.

    ING Group’s shareholders and depositary-receipt holders approved the decision to separate banking and insurance (including investment management) and authorised an intended rights issue at an extraordinary General Meeting of Shareholders (EGM) held on Wednesday, 25 November 2009. On the agenda were the strategy of the Company, including approval of an Executive Board resolution regarding an important change of the identity or the character of the Company, and the authorisation to issue ordinary shares and to exclude the pre-emptive rights.

  32. Sean says:

    re #28 – Cindy – actually the ex. Goldman Guy in charge of the CTFC Chairman Gary Gensler has been very vocal about central clearing and transparency of OTC derivatives.

    My take is the players will do whatever it takes to keep re-open the Casino.

    The big banks hold all the OTC Cards, but they have yet to get the Casino II open and running yet.

  33. Sean says:

    re # 25 – Chicago – I wonder how much of the Mutual Fund withdrawals from stocks are due to hardship withdrawls?

  34. Shore Guy says:

    For the women (and crossdressers) of the board:

    WHAT the heck is this woman wearing on her eyes?

  35. leftwing says:

    Does anyone have a good study of the savings to be had by eliminating ‘home rule’?

    Despite the obvious logic I would really like to see some figures. It’s against my DNA to believe that by merging into ever larger political entities (more distant from the citizen-voter) government becomes MORE efficient.

    Looking at my town, which is one of those that is a township with a corresponding independent borough of the same name, I fail to see substantial (if any) savings that could not be obtained by either municipality acting on its own.

    Moreover, much of what is good about my town derives from the proximity of our municipal leaders to any issue.

    Perhaps we are different. We have already merged our school districts and rec departments (although we retained both directors even after the merger a number of years ago). Our municipal leaders in both jurisdictions are volunteers, as are the members of all the boards in town. Our fire departments are volunteer.

    I hear arguments that towns will need fewer professionals if they merge, but don’t undertand why those savings can’t be accomplished by each municipality acting independently.

    If the municipal engineers, town planners, Planning Board and BoA lawyers, etc are handling a certain amount of work in each municipality that same combined amount of work will still be there once they merge. Much of the outside expense is billed hourly, so where are the savings? If it is fixed fee or a municipal employee and the argument is one contract can be eliminated what we are really saying is that each municipality is currently paying well in excess of the services required and can (should) therefore reduce the contract payment or salary accordingly. Merging is not a prerequisite to these actions.

    Ditto with police and fire coverage. If a merger results in a doubling of the size of a municipality you still need most if not all of the combined employees to provide the same coverage. If some can be eliminated without services being affected, then either of the municipalities should have been able to accomplish it unilaterally.

    I’m really skeptical that mergers create the synergies or savings claimed. Which town recently voted down an obvious merger because the anaylsis showed the projected savings would amount to just $40 per annum in taxes per homeowner?

    I suspect the real savings are to be had by reducing the state and county required payments and the much ballyhooed municipal line item savings, if they actually exist, are really just re-arranging the deck chairs.

    Any of our resident analysts/number crunchers want to take a break from Case-Schiller and look at the budgets of either Chatham, Mendham, or Chester borough/townships and see what savings could accrue exclusively from a merger?

    I think we are being sold a bill of goods here by those that derive their power from collecting and redistributing your money back to you. As they apply an industrial strength vaccuum to your wallet they are trying to use sleight of hand by distracting you with a few shiny coins lying on the ground. They would make Houdini proud.

    Would love to see some hard analysis.

  36. Cindy says:

    34 – Thanks Sean. Just keeping an eye out. I know you are on top of that one.

  37. John says:

    ING Relistar is for sale. The Insurance Commisioners are tough on the purchaser of an insurance compaany. ING parent company has hit some big bumps in the road, they are also thinking of selling ING Direct the on-line bank. Insuranse Commissioners are tough, if you have a licence to sell insurance you are going to pay off. I spoke to one of the folks I am friends with who sits in a corner office of the NYS Insurance Department and is in charge of examinations before I bought my policy at ING Reliastar, he said do not worry I would buy the policy myself. He said insurance ratings are quite different from other ratings, they go from like 100% confident, to 99.8% confident you can pay, they will yank your license quick if you can’t pay off. They don’t like zombie insurance comapnies. Even AIG is rock solid, to pay off policies. Even though company may go bankrupt, Also it is term no whole, just don’t renew if you feel it is too shaky.

  38. safeashouses says:

    There’s too much doom and gloom on this blog.

    I am thankful subprime was contained, real estate only goes up, it’s different here, and unemployment didn’t go over 9%.

  39. Shore Guy says:

    On a related note, is that baywatch guy turning into Ted Kennedy?

  40. Cindy says:

    36-Shore She looks like some sort of Twiggy wannabe gone wild.

  41. Schumpeter says:

    sean (34)-

    Gambling is now the only FedCo-mandated way to make money anymore.

  42. Shore Guy says:

    “Looking at my town, which is one of those that is a township with a corresponding independent borough of the same name,”

    Matawan Twp and Boro solved this by renaming Matwan Twp Aberdeen. Problem solved.

  43. make money says:


    The highest rate of fund investment was in the 4th quater of 2007. How did that work out?

    These idiot managers are chasing yields before end of the year so that they don’t look like morons that they missed the run up.

  44. jamil says:

    41: did he murder his girlfriend, escaped the crime scene, used his high-powered friends in DC for get out of jail card and collaborated secretly with KGB ?

    Please don’t compare that overweight Hollywood nobody for that criminal scumbag.

  45. Schumpeter says:

    If I’m going to gamble, I’ll take Chelsea on a week-in, week-out basis.

    They got +160 yesterday v Arsenal. That is as good as getting TARP money for Xmas.

  46. Shore Guy says:


    There comes a time when a middle-aged woman needs to stop dressing like she is in her 20s (and to tone down the eyeliner).

  47. Schumpeter says:

    Shore (36)-


  48. Shore Guy says:

    “did he murder his girlfriend, escaped the crime scene, used his high-powered friends in DC for get out of jail card and collaborated secretly with KGB ?”

    He is still young. There is lots of time for a productive political career.

    Oh, Wilber? Wilber Mills, are you in here?

  49. John says:

    Newsday has some nice shots of Tiger Woods’ Girlfriend, Rachel Uchitel in the paper today.

    Between juggling his hot wife and his hot GF it is no wonder in his rush sneaking back from his booty call he had an accident. Guess he is a tiger on the golf course and a tiger in bed.

  50. Schumpeter says:

    Shore (48)-

    That’s Leatherface, from Texas Chain Saw Massacre.

  51. Schumpeter says:

    It’s just not Christmas without John.

  52. Shore Guy says:


    We were at n AIDs benefit last winter and there were drag queens there who had a better handle on makeup than that woman.

  53. DoughBoy says:

    Wow, I really misread the title. I was reading it to say:

    The “Can we really afford a home?” Rule.

    I was expecting to read about how people are fighting coming to terms with the fact that they shouldn’t be buying a 500k house when they have a 50k total family income.

  54. Shore Guy says:

    “That’s Leatherface, from Texas Chain Saw Massacre.”

    Before tody, I had never seen or heard of her but, apparently she is the baywatch guy’s wife, or ex wife, or whatever.

    Whatever she is, it would not hurt for her to embrace her current age.

  55. Shore Guy says:

    Home rule is a misnomer, at least with respect to education. Education in NJ is a STATE function, not a local function. Board members are stsate officials who administer local schools on behalf of the state. Conssolidating into County districts, ala Maryland, or large ‘unified districts,” ala Kansas, is two votes and a signature from eliminating huge amounts of duplication at the local level, should our “leadership” view the change as vluable.

    And, really, is there any good reason for Brick and Toms river to have their own police forces? Is there any cnance that a single chief could not run a consolidated force, with one SWAT team, etc.? Heck, combine Brick and Toms River and toss in South Toms River, Beachwood, and Pine Beach, maybe even Ocean Gate, Seaside Heights and Seaside Park, and one has a city of about 250,000, which puts it on the map nationally (may even be bigger than Buffalo at this point). Nothing has changed for residents except the opportunity to reduce costs.

  56. Shore Guy says:

    Hold onto your portfolio, its going to be a bumpy day:

    FT) — The government of Dubai on Monday said it would not guarantee the debt of Dubai World as it sought clarify comments made last week by the state-owned entity that sent shockwaves through global markets.

    In its first public comments since the crisis erupted over the liabilities of its public companies, Dubai’s department of finance on Monday outlined its policy towards the outstanding loans which total $59bn.

    Abdulrahman al-Saleh, director general of Dubai’s department of finance, said in an interview with Dubai TV that creditors had to take responsibility for their own lending decisions and differentiate between advances to companies and the state. He also said global markets had overreacted to the news.

    Mr Saleh admitted that creditors of Dubai World, which owns DP World, the ports operator, and Nakheel, the property investment company, would be affected in the short-term but claimed there would be long-term benefits as the government restructured the business.


  57. Sean says:

    re: #51 – John – Client #3-Wood perhaps? Rachel Uchitel stayed at the same Hotel as Tiger when he was in Australia.

    She said she was in Australia visiting clients? What kind of clients does a night club hostess have anyway? The hostess in Japan are all for hire, so why not the hostess from NYC?

  58. Shore Guy says:

    “director general of Dubai’s department of finance, said in an interview with Dubai TV that creditors had to take responsibility for their own lending decisions and differentiate between advances to companies and the state. ”

    Ben, Timmy, and Daddy Warbucks could have said the same thing awhile back and hastened a return to prudence.

  59. Sean says:

    re: #59 – better have the Navy boys do a few flyovers.

  60. Shore Guy says:

    Will Work,

    This is for you:

    By RUSSELL CONTRERAS, Associated Press Writer Russell Contreras, Associated Press Writer – 2 hrs 46 mins ago
    BOSTON – It is banned in 13 states and sure doesn’t come in a six-pack.

    The maker of Samuel Adams beer has released an updated version of its biennial beer Utopias — now the highest alcohol content beer on the market. At 27 percent alcohol by volume and $150 a bottle, the limited release of the brandy-colored Utopias comes as more brewers take advantage of improvements in science to boost potency and enhance taste.

    “Just part of trying to push the envelope,” said Jim Koch, founder and owner of the Boston Beer Co. the maker of Sam Adams. “I’m pushing it beyond what the laws of these 13 states ever contemplated when they passed those laws decades ago.”

    Since the 1990s, craft brewers like the Boston Beer Co. and the Delaware-based Dogfish Head have produced a number of “extreme beers” that challenge old notions of beer and the decades-old laws that have governed them.

    By law, these specialty drinks still are classified as beer when they are based on fermented grain. And despite the hefty prices of the high-scale beer, brewers still have to pay the required nickel deposit on bottles.

    Paul Gatza, director of the national Brewers Association based in Boulder, Colo., said new yeast research allowed brewers to experiment with the emerging science that pushed the traditional cap of 14 percent alcohol by volume for beer.


  61. Shore Guy says:

    Or one can buy it, dismantle it for parts, and pocket the $10k and the house-parts cash:

  62. PGC says:

    Anyone any experience on O gauge vs HO gauge

    Need to buy a train set.

  63. Shore Guy says:

    HO is better for modeling, O for the tree.

  64. leftwing says:

    “And, really, is there any good reason for Brick and Toms river to have their own police forces?…Nothing has changed for residents except the opportunity to reduce costs.”


    Show me the money.

    Your assumption of great synergies is what prompted my question, which is that municipal consolidation sounds good, but can we look at an actual analysis.

    I pulled some quick data on Chatham Boro (most user friendly website).

    Municipality of about 10,000 residents. Assume at least 2,500 households.

    $17m in revenue last year, of which $2.8m was for police salaries of 28 FT and an indeterminate number of PT employees. $200k of police operating expenses (gas for cars, electric, etc).

    Where are the consolidation savings?

    The population and land area covered doesn’t change on consolidation so unless the residents accept a cut in services (which they don’t need a consolidation to decide) the number of patrolmen doesn’t decrease.

    Fixed costs are ridiculously low already. Even if you eliminated every operating expense in its entirety – zeroed out the cars, police station, etc – you only save $80 per household.

    If you laid off police representing 10% of wage base (big number) you only save $112 per household. And, again, the residents don’t need a merger to decide to do this.

    In fact, that the residents have not insisted on layoffs is a reason for me NOT to merge.

    If 10,000 people decide that they want a certain level of police coverage for an additional $112 per year it is a huge miscarriage of governance to put that decision in an entity 25x as large and miles away.

    And do you really believe a government entity of 250,000 is more efficient than 10,000? One thing I know for sure. That $3.75m surplus also reported by Chatham Borough in 2008 would be gone – POOF – if Chatham Borough were subsumed in a 250,000 person political entity.

  65. safeashouses says:

    #64 PGC

    What Shore Guy said. O is basically for the tree or making an oval/circle track for the kids to run. HO is what the modelers use.

  66. PGC says:


    After the City game, you should be able to ring the Chelsea Pinata through to February.

  67. Shore Guy says:

    By that logic,

    Every town should be subdivided even more.

    There are in fact savings. A single dispatcher can do the job currently done by two, a single watch commander for combined town vs one in each, same for chiefs, etc. The resources needed to provide minimal police coverage to 10 small towns far exceeds that necessary to provide robust coverage to a combined town. Next, lets look to town courts, recreation departments, sanittion, code enforcement, building, etc. One gets to ax a bunch of chiefs and put more workers on the street for less cost.

  68. Shore Guy says:

    And if you want a small layout, with better and far-more-expensive equipment, go N.

  69. jcer says:

    Yes I concur, the issue all too frequently is too many chiefs and not enough indians. Everybody wants a higher position, with perks, etc. But the sad truth is there are not that many positions. In the private sector I think it is accepted, in the public sector they create management positions for no good reason. Simply put, it needs to be flatter, given what the gov is tasked with, it should run itself.

  70. Shore Guy says:

    “If 10,000 people decide that they want a certain level of police coverage for an additional $112 per year it is a huge miscarriage of governance to put that decision in an entity 25x as large and miles away.”

    And they should not expect to receive state” aid to support that decision, nor should they complain about the cost of taxes.

    The root of the problem is that too many peple say, “that one change will only save $112 a year.” Find ten of them and one is talking a pretty good percentage of a typical tax bill.

  71. syncmaster says:

    I refuse to downgrade my cable because it’ll only save me $40 a month. I refuse to switch to Vonage because it’ll only save me $35 a month. I also refuse to brownbag my own lunches because that’s just $100 a month. F all that. None of those things alone will make a bit of difference to my monthly budget. So what if we’re not saving much?

  72. Shore Guy says:

    Here you go, John. Reason for you to consider an Android phone:

    replace the “*” with an “o” to activte the link:*rn_app_store_lands_on_android_phones.html

  73. jcer says:

    I don’t know that towns should necessarily merge but regional services seems like a no brainer. Police in suburban NJ are almost entirely unnecessary.

    Also taking a small savings from one area as an example is a fools game. Take that savings and multiply it by 5-6 areas, now you have 1000 per person, not count that a household is 4 people, thats 4000 per home, that would be a somewhat meaningful reduction in property tax per home.

  74. jcer says:

    But actually wealthy towns don’t have out of control taxes. They have the advantage of no poor people and typically expensive homes. Most wealthy towns have a real tax rate of less than 2%, if of course you are not in essex.

  75. syncmaster says:

    Police in suburban NJ are almost entirely unnecessary.

    They’re unnecessary now. If they’re gone or significantly reduced, that may no longer be the case. There aren’t too many “safe” suburbs that aren’t within a stones throw of an area that isn’t so safe.

  76. leftwing says:


    Again, if one administrative employee can handle the workload of two or more towns combined, you are assuming the dispatcher, watch commander, etc. are all being utilized at 50% or less.

    I don’t disagree there are savings. I am just suggesting mergers need not happen to realize them. Simply cut the dispatcher’s salary if he is only utilized less than half the time.

    Also, you will not get rid of the chiefs. In title, sure, but not the job or a large percentage of the salary. They will become assistant chiefs unless the decision is made to cut the supervisory personnel per officer by half. And, again, even if it is cut by half per public records this chief makes $130k, or a charge of $52 per household per annum saved if you fire him.

    The households of Chatham Borough, I am overwhelmingly certain, would vote strongly to tax themselves $52 each to keep that role local.

    Why should they be denied that choice?

    Again, this whole home rule discussion is a distraction of where the real tax and spend problem lies, which is in Trenton. NOT with two extra police officers or a couple of extra secretaries in a small town trying to remain a small town in this exurban mass of pavement, strip malls and flesh known as NJ.

  77. Shore Guy says:

    What difference does it make in the consolidation example I gave above, whether one lives in the Twp of Brick, or the Brick section of some new city?

    It is not like people in NY stop saying they are from Murray Hill, or Bushwick, or Washington Heights, or whatever. The same for any city. People still use section names and those places retain their character.

  78. jcer says:

    My point is that the protection of the surburbs almost could be done entirely by boarder control. One roving police car could cover a square mile quite well and deter crime. Of course they are needed, but I would argue there are too many in suburbia, and we should send them to the ghetto because the criminals from the ghetto typically come to rob suburbanites.

  79. syncmaster says:

    jcer… I say we mine the borders. Then we won’t even need a patrol car.

  80. PGC says:

    #70 Shore Guy,

    I think N Gauge would be too small for the kids to play with. If you make it Fridays GTG, we can discuss it.

  81. Shore Guy says:

    “The households of Chatham Borough, I am overwhelmingly certain, would vote strongly to tax themselves $52 each to keep that role local.

    Why should they be denied that choice?”

    Let them pay if they want, but without support from the rest of the taxpayers, filtered through Trenton.

    There are pleanty of $52, $100, $200 per year savings per taxpayer sprinkled across municipal, county, and state government. To refuse to tke advntage of any single one because the savings are not enough in and of itself to change things is foolhardy.

    There are plenty of people who can never seem to save anything, yet they have money for cigarettes, for starbucks, for this, for that, for the other thing, all of which are minimal costs in and of themselves, but which add up to a considerable sum over the course of a year.

    The rest of the people of the State have the right to say, “Chatham, if you folks want to spend wildly, go right head, but we are not giving you any aid if yu do.” If it is importnt enough to them, they will willingly tax themselves.

  82. PGC says:

    A lot of BC towns use shared dispatch for Fire and Police. The problem of the smaller towns is third shift and vacation coverage for the regular officers.

  83. syncmaster says:

    The rest of the people of the State have the right to say, “Chatham, if you folks want to spend wildly, go right head, but we are not giving you any aid if yu do.”

    Let’s say the state merged Chatham and surrounding towns into a city with a single police force.

    Let’s say residents of the Chatham section then said we want more. We want our cops to have nicer uniforms, or have taxpayer funded liposuctions, or $0 doctor co-pays or whatever. Some added benefit not available to the city police force.

    Would you think it’s ok for po-po in the Chatham section to get added bennies the po-po in the rest of the City don’t get?

  84. leftwing says:

    “And they should not expect to receive state aid to support that decision, nor should they complain about the cost of taxes.”

    Now we are talking the same language. ‘State aid’ is nothing other than taking my money from me, charging me a surcharge on top for someone to do so, and then giving it back to me (sometimes). I will gladly give up every dime of ‘state aid’to keep my school and other taxes local.

    “Also taking a small savings from one area as an example is a fools game. Take that savings and multiply it by 5-6 areas, now you have 1000 per person, not count that a household is 4 people, thats 4000 per home, that would be a somewhat meaningful reduction in property tax per home.”

    My quick analysis was per household. Also, the one area I took the saving from represents 17% of the total budget, zeroed out the fixed costs, and cut 10% of that workforce for $192 of savings where the tax on the bottom end single family home of $600k is $9k.

    C’mon guys, stop the ‘logical’ arguments and let’s talk figures.

    I was an M&A banker in a previous life and our best case scenario of merger synergies were in the 5-8% of costs range. And the savings took massive amounts of payouts immediately (which Wall Street can ignore but municipalities cannot). And the synergies were never realized in hindsight.

    Show me the money, not the logic.

  85. scribe says:


    what does “credit floor” mean?

    not credit ceiling?

  86. jamil says:

    The number of police officers (of firefighters) is not the problem wrt taxes.

    Merging towns and eliminating few such positions would not really reduce taxes.
    Yeah, maybe one Administrative Super Independent in charge of Race, Gender and Class policies can (and should) be eliminated, but by and large, it is the unsustainable benefits for public employees that is the problem.

    Overtime pay (often manipulated), pension and excessive health plans should be adapted to similar private sector plans.

  87. syncmaster says:

    jamil 89,

    Reduce their bennies to mirror private sector and eventually you will have to adjust (upward) their salaries to mirror the pvt sector as well.

  88. Shore Guy says:

    credit floor is the amount that can be aproved on the selling floor without card-issuer approvsal, right?

  89. Shore Guy says:



  90. Shore Guy says:

    Forget economics. We have bread (15% of the adult population and 25% of kids) on food stamps and circuses like:

  91. Frank's corn hole talking says:

    re: #88 Scribe – no authorization is required by the merchant bank.

    If, however, the amount is over the “floor limit” the merchant must pick up the phone call the bank and get a “voice authorization.”

    Really annoying when you are inline behind someone like that.

  92. Al Gore says:

    Once only recognized by the media as mere conspiracy, it is now considered a reality as hundreds of articles across the world address this issue on a weekly basis. The standardization of one system of government throughout the world is steadily being introduced as we come into the Age of World Managers. If you look at the charter and mandate of the Council on Foreign Relations and the Royal Institute of International Affairs, you will see that the future they envision is a world of service. According to these documents, every individual’s only purpose will be to serve the world state. We are living through a cultural revolution right now that is transitioning us into a world system.

    Everything is ok. Go back to sleep.

    Al Gore

  93. Shore Guy says:

    “eventually you will have to adjust (upward) their salaries to mirror the pvt sector as well.”

    Take a look at those current public-sector salaries. Job classification for job classification, many are already above private-sector rates.

    A funny thing has happened in eduction. There are increasing numbers of PhDs who are opting to teach in public schools because the pay is so much better than at the collegiate level. There are also better benefits.

  94. syncmaster says:

    Shore i’m married to a teacher. She is in her third year of educating now and has yet to earn what she used to earn before. A lot of the teacher-bashing on this blog (and others like it) I just don’t buy.

  95. jamil says:

    90 “Reduce their bennies to mirror private sector and eventually you will have to adjust (upward) their salaries to mirror the pvt sector as well.”

    Isn’t this how things are supposed to be? Market rate benefits for public employees?

  96. John says:

    Speaking of teachers, my sister in law is always whining about salary. She is a ten year tenured NYC Junior HS teacher, wonder what they made.

  97. Shore Guy says:

    I am not bashing any public-sector employee. And nobody here, or anyplace else, can point to a single instance where I have ever done so.

    One can oppose spending priorities without “bashing.” It is not anti teacher to assert that “curriculum development” expenses, largly duplicated in each district, for the same courses, could be consolidated. For Pete’s sake, do we need 500 different curricula for teaching multiplication tables in one state alone?

    There are pleanty of things stte aand local governments do that are beneficial but are no longer affordable. As such, until we are debt free, we should probably not be doing them, regrdless of the quality of staff performing the duties.

    To say so, is in no way “bashing” anyone.

  98. syncmaster says:

    John aren’t public school teacher salaries online? Look it up.

  99. syncmaster says:

    It is not anti teacher to assert that “curriculum development” expenses, largly duplicated in each district, for the same courses, could be consolidated.

    I agree. My wife says the same thing. In fact, a lot of things can be standardized on a national level. Math and science, for example.

  100. Shore Guy says:


    In your wife’s compensation calculation, are you multiplying her alary by 1.3 to compensate for the shorter work year? The typical private sector employee works 240 days a year, a long school year in NJ is 185. Also, how about the pension plans and health benefits? In Marlboro, the health benefits cost the employer 22,000/year per teacher, with no cost to the employees.

    Many people would make the trade.

  101. DoughBoy says:

    jcer… your ideas on how to limit crime by cutting police forces and just using ‘a roaming police car’ to deter crime is amazingly rediculous.

    Why does Brick and TR need seperate Police forces? Well, because they’re towns with large population and distance to cover. The logistic nightmares will still be in place regardless of if you combine the two and you’d probably end up just having more BS because you’d have on chief, but multiple captains under them for each section, etc.

    There is tons of just straight up waste in the current systems (as they are) that can be cut before we start trying to re-map counties to get a more savings.

  102. Shore Guy says:

    “In fact, a lot of things can be standardized on a national level. Math and science, for example.”

    Just don’t try to stndardize biology (or astronomy, physics, or earth science) with the Bible Belt. Oy!

  103. scribe says:

    Where’s the GTG on Friday?

    I was offline – on jury duty.

  104. John says:

    So my sister in law makes 100K a year as a ny teacher, that is a lot!! Considering if you go straight to masters you graduate at 22. So making 100K a year at 32 with three summers off is a nice deal. Plus if you teach summer school or tutor it is 130K.

  105. syncmaster says:

    Shore #103, yes I am taking all that into account. The good news is, I am confident she will “pull even” within 5 years and will likely do much better over the long-term than had she stayed at her old job. But the first few years are quite unrewarding (monetarily) which accounts for the huge % of teachers who quit the profession early on.

    Shore #105,

    We should have let them secede. Lincoln screwed up.

  106. syncmaster says:

    John #107, since the salary info is public anyway, would you care to post a link to it?

  107. scribe says:

    thanks for the reply

    who was that masked man?

  108. Al Gore says:

    The cost of the police dept really isnt that much and considering Brick is one of the safest towns in America you get a good return on the investment.

    The sharing of building inspectors for Brick and Toms River has led to 200,000 in savings in salary and benefits. Now that seems like a small sum but its a good start. The trend must continue.

    The elimination of Abbott school district funding would effectively cut 1/3 of of the school funding part of our property tax.

  109. PGC says:

    As we expected.

    NRF study indicates Black Friday purchases are down from 2008. Shoppers Up, average spend and overall total down.

  110. syncmaster says:

    Al Gore #111,

    Yes, defunding the Abbott districts would save us in the burbs a lot of money. But the question still remains, what do you do with those areas? They are poor, they are crime-ridden and in need of the extra assistance. What’s your solution?

  111. Outofstater says:

    How about 21 school superintendents, one for every county, instead of 500 plus?

  112. PGC says:

    #106 Scribe.

    Brass Rail at 6PM

  113. leftwing says:

    A couple of thoughts from some pretty smart people on home rule before I have to sign off for this afternoon to earn money so that it can be shipped away from my little hometown and used more wisely in Abbott Districts and for all the highly product public sector employees in Camden and Newark:

    “That government is best which governs least.”
    Thomas Paine.

    “The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.”
    Amendment 10, Bill of Rights, US Constitution

    Self rule and self determination is the basis of this country.

  114. syncmaster says:

    PGC #112,

    From your article:

    Shoppers proved this weekend that they were willing to open their wallets for a bargain, heading out to take advantage of great deals on less expensive items…

    If that turns into the new American “normal”, that wouldn’t be such a bad thing.

  115. PGC says:

    #113 sync

    Corzine pushed through Abbott reform about six months ago. Funds will be distributed across all districts.

  116. scribe says:



  117. Al Gore says:


    We need to offer the people that can be helped in those districts a lifeboat. Charter schools are an option that has shown promise. Ultimately I think the parents must have choice and the only way to get that is to change how public education is funded.

  118. lostinny says:

    107 John
    If your sister is working in her 10th year she’s making 75K not 100K.

  119. lostinny says:

    And you don’t make another 30k in the summer for summer school. Where are you getting these numbers from?

  120. syncmaster says:

    lostinny that’s why I asked him for a link lol.

  121. lostinny says:

    123 Sync
    I can give you the link but the salary chart is very difficult to understand.

  122. syncmaster says:

    Every time i hear of teachers on this blog, they make 100k. Who are these people who all make 100k, I wanna meet em.

  123. syncmaster says:

    lost let John provide the link. He made the claim, not you.

  124. Simon says:

    You mean John makes stuff up?!?!

  125. Veto That says:

    Shore, i agree that we need to consolidate some small towns. in my opinion Brick and TR are a bad idea to start off with but i realize you were just using it as a hypothetical example. The ideal step fwd would be to merge the 50 smallest towns first. Then see how that all works out and give them a chance to prove that savings were realized.
    After 3-5 years, if they can show real savings then we can discuss the benefits of possibly merging some huge towns and possibly running some portions of them at the county level but people dont like big govt control, nor should they or else we would just ask the federal govt to run our towns in a standardized fashion to achieve cost efficiencies.
    But if we want to lower prop taxes we need to discuss the elephants in the room. Pensions and Abbot funding.
    My proposed solution to abbott is this: if we standardized fuding for all school districts across the state, then abbott would be forced to significantly lower their expenses – because as it stands now, abbott is mandated to be funded at levels per student equaling that our most affluent districts!
    This is crazy. We give abbott districts more funds per student than the average kid gets in their average district. Lets look at some of our most affluent districts. Would their education really suffer if we removed 30% of their operating budget? Not at all. Those affluent students are better performing students because their parents and home life is way more condusive to education. The opposite can be said of abbott districts, thats why money doesnt matter – beyond a certain min level of providing the basic classroom and books and decent teachers. So if money doesnt matter to student performance, why are choking property owners by dumping boat loads of their tax dollars into the inner cities?

  126. John says:

    Wow look how much school admin people make! Syosset admin guy is $439K

  127. John says:

    Here is where I got NYC Teacher salary info, need to know tenure and education level to figure out how much they make.

  128. Kettle1 says:


    Camden and Newark are social problems not financial problems. Trying to solve social problems with money is like trying to fix rust by just painting over it. In the end all you have done is try to put a pretty facade on an ugly issue that will continue to eat away at the structure until it’s adrressed, regardless of the facade you put on it

  129. John says:

    I represent that remark. Actually, interesting enough in the book “The millionaire next door” The number one occupation of a male Millionaire’s wife if teacher. So Teachers even if they made zero most likely would have a high household income. Additionally, in my little school district teachers are either, early 20’s live at home with Mom and Dad or late 20’s to 50’s and have a husband who works full time. In either case this is usually not head of household income. Teachers make a lot of money considering it is normally a second income. However, there are few Male Head of Household teachers in my town as you can’t support a whole family on a single teachers salary. Though there are lots of husband/wife teacher combos and that is a sweet deal, 200k a year and you both get summers off.

    Simon says:
    November 30, 2009 at 12:01 pm
    You mean John makes stuff up?!?!

  130. syncmaster says:

    Kettle, I buy that. So what’s the solution? Does your solution work without funding?

  131. Kettle1 says:

    Veto 128

    because you would then have address social failures and it’s politically unacceptable to suggest that a group of parents may actually be partially responsable for the failure of their children, especially when said issue in concentrated amongst certain racial/ethnic groups.

    It’s more complex the poor parent performance, but that’s a big part of it

  132. lostinny says:

    If she has been teaching for 10 years and has her MA + 30 credits, she makes 74,797. After she finishes her 10th year, meaning the start of her 11th year, she will increase to 78,886. How is that 100K?

  133. Anon E. Moose says:

    115.PGC says:
    November 30, 2009 at 11:42 am
    #106 Scribe.

    Brass Rail at 6PM

    Do we wear a rose or something – maybe a Gold C21 blazer?

  134. syncmaster says:

    … said issue in concentrated amongst certain racial/ethnic groups

    I agree. Those racial groups would be white, black and hispanic. Not so much Asians, unless you live in the upper midwest and know the Hmong.

  135. syncmaster says:

    lost #135, he’s just rounding to the nearest 100. It’s a math thing.

  136. lostinny says:

    138 Sync
    I’m glad he’s not the comptroller.

  137. Comrade Nom Deplume says:


    HO is inexpensive, ubiquitous, and best if this is to be a hobby starter. Much better track, transformers, and parts than in decades past, so it is far easier for younger children to use.

    Too small for decorative use though. And a train set is a PITA for decorative use each year.

    6 PM at the Rail??? See you Friday.

  138. jamil says:

    105 shore: considering recent Climategate leaks, it is safe to say that bible belt curriculum would be more honest and based on real science rather than political indoctrination.

  139. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    CNN article on pension crisis. Nothing new except how it will be funded (or not). The observation about West Virginia was especially chilling as it portends higher taxes and debt.

    Problem will really be, at the state level, when states are forced by public employee pressure, to “save” muni pensions, rather than let them fail.

    Similarly, at the fed level, when private pensions start failing, will we see the USG “save” PBGC? Or state pension systems (since states cannot declare bankruptcy)?

    Magic 8 Ball says “Without a doubt.”

  140. kettle1 says:


    The programs that i am familiar with that try to address some of the root issues generally seem to be fairly successful, but are more long term solutions. one example is a program in Newark that teaches parents how to help teach their children and how to help children learn. Dont remember the name of it though.

    In the end the race or ethnicity of the groups involved is irrelevant to me personally, but i have seen way to much political hot potatoe BS over addressing these issues and race sensitivity through my wife’s work. She work with “disadvantaged” groups on everything from family counseling to child education, in some of the nicer parts of the state such as newark and camden.

    In the end the issue are directly linked to a break down of family structure. I do not know the solution to rebuilding family structures as i am not a sociologist or psychologist.

    Any effort to make such changes will certainly cost money (i have no idea what the figure might be) but just throwing money at the situation without addressing the issue is a waste. Any child is unlikely to flourish if they do not have a stable and sound home life.

  141. kettle1 says:

    I’m out for friday, babysitter fell through. Do they allow 2 yr olds at the brass rail?

  142. Frank's corn hole talking says:

    Food Stamps are now in fashion, hurry up and apply now before your neighbor beats you too it.

    Food Stamp Use Soars, and Stigma Fades

  143. John says:

    Hard to say, Nassau county bakes in benefits, NYC only tells salary. I am pretty sure 75K is nothing after counting in pension, free medical summers off and all the 14 YO boys she gets to BJ.

    lostinny says:
    November 30, 2009 at 12:15 pm
    If she has been teaching for 10 years and has her MA + 30 credits, she makes 74,797. After she finishes her 10th year, meaning the start of her 11th year, she will increase to 78,886. How is that 100K?

  144. PGC says:

    #136 Anon E. Moose

    Just look for the group at the end of the bar talking BS.

  145. PGC says:

    #144 Kettle,

    I think Lil Gateor was about 2 at the last one. They have a big dinner crowd so there are usually kids eating.

  146. PGC says:

    Will Corzine go down better in history that he is perceived today?

    Court ruling on Abbott is a victory for Corzine and common sense

  147. lostinny says:

    I didn’t think it was possible for you to sink any lower.

  148. Veto That says:

    “one example is a program in Newark that teaches parents how to help teach their children and how to help children learn.”

    Ket, This is the program i proposed in my masters thesis, among other things.
    I also proved that funding doesnt matter by creating a regression analysis that shows the less we spend on NJ districts the better they do academically.

  149. hughesrep says:


    The cost of the police dept really isnt that much and considering Brick is one of the safest towns in America you get a good return on the investment.

    Brick is safe because there are so many old people. That town is chock full of massive senior citizen park and dies.


    In my wife’s district they hit 90K after 11 years, 100K a few years after that. Until that 11th year they are mostly sub 60K. That 11th year I call the boat year.

  150. kettle1 says:


    from the comments in the article:

    a provision states “no Abbott District will receive LESS funding”

    If this is accurate then there really isnt much change here, just more bread and circus. I havent read the plan though so do not know the veracity of this statement.

  151. kettle1 says:


    Maybe we need to start the Veto/Kettle platform and run for governor ( after paying off the right people first) ;)

  152. Al Gore says:

    NEW YORK (Reuters) – U.S. stocks declined moderately on Monday as weak data on holiday retail sales prompted questions about the consumer’s ability to spend.

    The S&P Retail index (Chicago Options:^RLX – News) fell 1.3 percent after the National Retail Federation said that total Black Friday holiday spending was down from last year, suggesting that consumers were still reluctant to spend.

    “So far, the numbers don’t look very strong,” said Bruce Bittles, chief investment strategist at Robert W. Baird & Co in Nashville.

    “It will be hard to attract shoppers without discounting, which will hurt margins, and given all the stimulus that has been thrown at the economy, this is a disappointment.”

    Its all about retail sales. Starve the beast this Christmas season. Let it all fall down so we can rebuild it.

  153. Al Gore says:

    OMG. Look at what helicopter Ben is planning.

    WASHINGTON (AP) — The Federal Reserve is taking steps to fine-tune a strategy to reel in some of the unprecedented amount of money that’s been pumped into the economy during the financial crisis.

    Related Quotes
    Symbol Price Change
    FNM 0.91 -0.03

    FRE 1.03 -0.07

    JPM 41.72 +0.39

    {“s” : “fnm,fre,jpm”,”k” : “c10,l10,p20,t10″,”o” : “”,”j” : “”} The Federal Reserve Bank of New York said Monday that investors and others shouldn’t read anything about the timing of when the central bank will need to reverse course and start boosting interest rates and removing other supports to fend off inflation.

    The upcoming operations will involve so-called reverse repurchase agreements. That’s when the Fed sells securities from its portfolio with an agreement to buy them back later.

    Reverse repos are one of the tools the Fed can use to drain some of the money it has plowed into the economy to ease financial troubles.

  154. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    The more things change, the more they stay the same. . . . the view of our perilous state budgets. In 1884.

    I like the reference to the fallout over the Chisholm decision (Morpheus, remember that one?)

  155. Comrade Nom Deplume says:


    Per your question.

    Try this site. I have not worked with it, so I can’t tell you how to navigate it.

  156. John says: is a coool way by zip code to look up your town’s information

  157. Al Gore says:

    So helicopter Ben wants to resell the toxic derivatives we bought which have an unknown value?

    “As I continue to dig deeper into the FDIC Quarterly Banking Profile there are many ticking time bombs as many loan categories continue to deteriorate and no one knows the risks embedded in the $206.4 trillion in Notional Amount of Derivative Contracts. This is a new high for this category and is up 16.5% year over year. How many more $60 to $80 billion Dubai Bombs are there, and which US banks are exposed?”

  158. mikeinwaiting says:

    Ket 154 Being Sicilian from Hudson county it is best that I handle campaign funds to assure victory.. Now for the appropriate job once you guys get in. Well we can just make one up.

  159. Veto That says:

    “Maybe we need to start the Veto/Kettle platform and run for governor”

    Ket, yeah, we seem to have it all figured out. and we could easily get everyone’s vote here by promising to put them in our administration.
    Can you imagine the govt layoffs if this board was the administration? Each school would be left with one class and each town one policeman. lol.

  160. Sean says:

    re: #156 – reverse repo so Trash for more Trash?

  161. Veto That says:

    “Being Sicilian from Hudson County”

    Mike. i would not outright admit to being in the mafia like that. these boards are monitored by ‘the authorities’.

  162. mikeinwaiting says:

    I am not in the mob, just a business man. It is just a matter of knowing how to operate in a certain environment. 2nd nature for those brought up there. Like riding a bike.

  163. plg says:

    I have a question for you people complaining about teacher salaries…Is the problem you are finding that the quality of teachers is too high? Generally, renumeration is structured to attract the requisite talent. In the case of teachers, I think compensation is actually too low.

    The fact is starting salaries for teachers is barely enough to attract people for the jobs, particularly in inner city schools. So your suggestion is that we pay less???? who is going to teach your snot-nosed spoiled children?

    The quality of teachers in all but the best districts is sub par as it is. If anything we should be paying more to attract decent quality applicants.

  164. Schumpeter says:

    SRS looking mighty tasty as it plummets back toward $9.

    SPG should be reporting just a stellar Q4.

    [sarcasm off]

  165. Sean says:

    Actually let’s elaborate on # 156

    removing excess liquidity

    The preliminary plan is for the Fed to exchange via reverse repo the “trash” for “cash” FROM the money market mutual funds.

    There are about 2,000 money funds are in operation with assets of around
    3.3 trillion as of this week.

    See where this is going? I believe SaS warned us to watch out for when they take away our savings.

    Presumably the money market mutual funds are going to get stuffed with BB collateral that has an AAA stamp and a Fed guarantee.

  166. Shore Guy says:


    There is no such thing as LCN, The Mob, etc. They are just terms used to attack successful business people who happen to have ancestors who hailed from Italy.

    Crime is by its nature, don’t you know, disorganized. Besides, why would good famly men get involved in something like that?

  167. Schumpeter says:

    plg (166)-

    Why must we pay top dollar to teachers, across the board? My take is that- like every other profession- some teachers suck, many are mediocre, and a few are exceptional”. Unfortunately, their racket of a union mandates they all get paid pretty much the same, that many of them can’t be fired, that none of them are accountable to anyone and bonuses can’t be paid to top performers.

    Of course, one of the hallmarks of the soci@list welfare state is that making distinctions, exercising judgment and implementing a system of consequence-for-actions is unacceptable.

    My daughter goes to a “National Blue Ribbon” high school. The vast majority of her teachers are unremarkable, and she has had a handful of both brilliant and incompetent ones. The one common denominator is that virtually all of them will be there until the retire.

    Somebody please explain to me how this is acceptable in a degenerate society that is becoming dumber by the day.

  168. Veto That says:

    “If anything we should be paying more to attract decent quality applicants.”

    i dont agree PLG. We dont need einstein teaching our 8th graders making 100k per year. We need them to start building a solid foundation of basics. All that requires is a teacher who regurgitates some pre-written curriculum or teaches from the book. I agree with Shore here.
    University is a different story – depending on the goals and aspirations of each student – they should challenge themselves to various degrees.
    bye the way, this is just my opinion – even though im stating it as matter of fact.

  169. Schumpeter says:

    sean (168)-

    I firmly expect to have a fractional share of Maiden Lane rammed up my arse, in one form or another.

  170. kettle1 says:


    Each school would be left with one class and each town one policeman. lol.

    The 1 policeman wont be a problem when we require every state resident to “concealed carry”

  171. Schumpeter says:

    Everyone should be required to bear arms.

  172. Schumpeter says:

    Hoo boy:

    “Cash was king for consumers who shopped over the Thanksgiving weekend, according to survey results released on Sunday, and that factor could have cost retailers additional sales.

    Only 26 percent of people who shopped over the weekend said they used credit cards for their purchases, according to a poll conducted for Reuters by America’s Research Group.

    “That’s an amazing shift in consumers’ habits,” said Britt Beemer, founder of America’s Research Group.”

  173. prtraders2000 says:

    Starting salaries for teachers are low, but that is mostly the fault of the union. They backload the pay scale so that those with the greatest seniority get the biggest increases each year. My understanding is that the towns negotiate how big the pie will be and the union decides how it will be divvied up. The unintended consequence of the system is that a teacher with 10+ years of experience has a difficult time moving from one school system to another because most towns look to fill positions with teachers closer to the beginning of the scale.

  174. Seneca says:

    Lead article on CNBC right now:

    “Behind on Your Mortgage? Just Stop Paying, Professor Says”

  175. John says:

    It is also intended to prevent the best teachers from ever teaching. Several women in my town in their late 40’s early 50’s who have had 2-4 kids of their own and took 10-15 years off work to raise kids would love to teach. But the system is geared they would have to go back to a 21 year old girls salary. Then the pay-off is not till 10-15 years down road when they finally reach full salary which is of couse to late for them. So instead of having the 50 women who actually raised kids and has real world work experience as the new teacher I get a snot nosed 22 year old girl who lives at home who spends her spare time at beach bum tanning and hanging out with her boyfriend Vinnie at the Jersey Shore.

    prtraders2000 says:
    November 30, 2009 at 1:42 pm
    Starting salaries for teachers are low, but that is mostly the fault of the union. They backload the pay scale so that those with the greatest seniority get the biggest increases each year. My understanding is that the towns negotiate how big the pie will be and the union decides how it will be divvied up. The unintended consequence of the system is that a teacher with 10+ years of experience has a difficult time moving from one school system to another because most towns look to fill positions with teachers closer to the beginning of the scale.

  176. A.West says:

    Veto (171),
    I agree. Especially for the worst-performing districts, standardized systems would work better at ensuring minimal quality. In India, Educomp is automating private schools with “Smart Class” and appears is gaining market share, with parents looking for classes equipped with it. Lots of automation means that the “teacher” needs to be only moderately skilled, and there’s a good bit of scalability. When you’re poor like Indians and paying $1 week to send your kids to school is a big deal, you can’t afford to pay for all this touchy feely stuff from a caring emotionally nurturing unionized teacher, in the end, you want to make darn sure little Suresh actually learned lots of facts and skills so that he actually gets a job, unlike in the US where unskilled people are able to get plentiful work in ethnic studies, motivational speaking, or home flipping.

    Of course, if we moved to a standardized curriculum delivered by advanced IT systems, children and parents would actually have to want to learn, and the 100,000 curriculum supervisors of NJ would have to get a real job, and the unionized teachers would have to explain why they earned more than the median income in return for starting up a pc, turning the lights on and off, taking attendence and lunch money, and telling slow Johnny to stop chasing the girls.

  177. A.West says:

    The main problem with unionized teachers’ salaries is that the pay scale seems totally disconnected from value-added.

    Basically, a competent elementary teacher is economically worth x (let’s just say $40,000). A really good and experienced teacher might be worth about 20% more, perhaps $50,000. A bad teacher is worth zero, and should get out of the business (yes, it is a business, despite being a thoroughly state-controlled one).

    The union system forces teachers to endure working for years at less than their economic value, which combined with licenses and such serve as a barrier to entry from new supply. After a period of time, if they stick around long enough, teachers then get paid significantly more than their economic value, because their value to students simply doesn’t increase 5% more for every year of experience.

    In other words, state-control and union control have served to massively distort the compensation of teachers and the provision of education generally.

  178. House Whine says:

    178- Well, you show me a profession where a person can leave said profession for 10 to 15 years and actually get re-hired at all with NO extra training or re-certification. I find it amazing that he/she could get the job at all! I have absolutely no sympathy that they have to start at a lower end of the pay scale in their 40’s and 50’s. Personally, I have a neighbor who did exactly what you have described. She stayed home for 15 years, received no updating training whatsoever, and now works for a very high income school district and gets paid what I consider to be good money.

  179. Shore Guy says:

    As long as the budgets stay the same size or grow, officials and taxpayers will have little inclination to cut anything because the focus is on loss; what are we getting rid of?

    David was right, the key is to cut off the supply of revenue, then to figure out, “what can we save.”

  180. Shore Guy says:


  181. prtraders2000 says:


    That’s how it works. My wife was teaching in Passaic and a few teachers were making over/around 100k per year. Many of the highest paid were the one’s just marking time until retirement. A few were doing hour and half commutes from places like Ocean County and even upstate NY. No possible way they find another teaching job with similar pay closer to home.

  182. make money says:


    Are you shorting V yet?

  183. make money says:

    I firmly expect to have a fractional share of Maiden Lane rammed up my arse, in one form or another.

    You’ll be lucky to get away with only a fractional share sir. I fully expect a majority share up my arse.

  184. scribe says:



  185. freedy says:

    if you teach in passaic, do they issue a
    handgun for defense?

  186. syncmaster says:

    is passaic really that bad? i have no idea, very unfamiliar with that part of nj.

  187. John says:

    Now that is silly talk. Someone who graduated a top college and then a top grad school who worked 13 years in business world then took 15 years off to raise children, join PTA, go to all school events and help with homework everynight and attend all school activities actually spent those 15 years learning about teaching and elementary schools. Yet a snot noses 22 year old Jersey shore chick with a newly minted Phonix on-line certificate is considered the same starting salary, crazy.

    House Whine says:
    November 30, 2009 at 2:15 pm
    178- Well, you show me a profession where a person can leave said profession for 10 to 15 years and actually get re-hired at all with NO extra training or re-certification. I find it amazing that he/she could get the job at all! I have absolutely no sympathy that they have to start at a lower end of the pay scale in their 40’s and 50’s. Personally, I have a neighbor who did exactly what you have described. She stayed home for 15 years, received no updating training whatsoever, and now works for a very high income school district and gets paid what I consider to be good money.

  188. chicagofinance says:


    Would you drink Ammo whiskey?

    We should concoct something….

  189. Schumpeter says:

    chi (191)-

    I would drink any beverage labeled “whiskey”.

    Right now, that would include hemlock and gasoline.

    If you can get someone to produce Ammo whiskey, I would endorse it. :)

  190. PGC says:

    #192 Schump

    Are you selling your Train set?

  191. Schumpeter says:

    PGC (193)-

    That ain’t me. Any dolt knows that once you bottle whiskey, it doesn’t improve with aging.

  192. Schumpeter says:

    PGC (193)-

    I’d like to get that train going, then set it on fire…

  193. PGC says:

    I suppose it is only half the price of a top of the line real one.

  194. jcer says:

    If you look at NJ suburbs, most are overwhelmingly safe, the amount of crime that occurs is shockingly small and non violent. A town like franklin lakes has 30, at any given time their are cops just floating around the precinct, almost no crime occurs and almost no crime that does occur is prevented by the police, but in looking at the statistics crime is really low and the police forces are smaller than the national average. More ridiculous is that a suburban cop makes more money than the police in dangerous cities. Also given the way police seem to function in suburbia it is almost like they don’t exist, they respond to calls really. Affluent suburbia has burglary/theft, youthful foolishness, and maybe domestic disturbance. Could we reduce the police force without ill effects, probably. The truth is most residents are not the ones committing the crimes, those with decent middle upper class lifestyles simply have too much to lose to commit petty crimes and are more likely to be white collar criminals. It is largely the urban poor who do stupid things like crime. The issue is that yes there is not enough cost/waste in police services to make a huge difference, should there be some belt tightening.. absolutely, will it alone significantly lower taxes… no. The white elephant in the room is education costs, it is expensive and should at least administratively be more centralized. With common curriculum, centralized purchasing, IT management cost can be somewhat driven down but it is still a problem, if you have 2 kids in the schools it cost 25,000+ minimum, are your property taxes high enough to pay this as well as police, fire, road work, etc.

  195. PGC says:

    A starter topic for the GTG

    Retirement: How does the US compare?

    ­So what would it take for the U.S. to become No. 1? Is it even possible? According to Mercer, the following changes could help improve the U.S. retirement-income system:

    •Raise the minimum pension for low-income pensioners.
    •Adjust the level of mandatory contributions to increase the net replacement for median-income earners.
    •Introduce a minimum access age so it’s clear that benefits are preserved for retirement.
    •Introduce a requirement that part of the retirement benefit be taken as an income stream.

  196. scribe says:

    From the December issue of SFO magazine:


    Leveraged and inverse ETFs might be misunderstood by some investors or there might have been a problem with how they were being sold by some big retail firms, but they are not going away.

    As trading vehicles, they have many enthusiastic fans, including Reeves “Chip” Hughes, the owner of a Re/Max real estate brokerage in Branchburg, N.J., who aggressively traded SRS amid the worst of the credit crisis.

    During the short-selling ban, he says he held on to his SRS position “for weeks,” and when the ban came off, he says he “rode it from close to $100 to $295, and how was that unsuitable for me?”

    He continues, “People get into these ETFs, and they think the gains and losses are cumulative. And what they don’t realize is that the meter gets set back to zero every day, and if the momentum is not in your favor, time erosion will happen to your investment. But if you don’t understand what you’re getting into, you’re gambling, and you’re a dope and you should lose all of your money. It’s very clearly explained in the prospectuses, and you can Google all the information you need.

  197. lostinny says:

    199 scribe

    We have our very own celebrities here. I hope you’re well.

  198. John says:

    Thank you. I am easily one of the most famous celebrities on this site named John

  199. ricky_nu says:

    ok, so perhaps I am not an expert in how markets work, but a house I have been watching has been on and off the market for over a year. They put it back on the market 3-4 months ago, it didn’t sell. So, what do they do?

    (hold for it….) Raise the price 7.5%.

    This strikes me as a little counter-intuitive, can anyone shed some light on this behavior?

  200. grim says:

    #199 – Very cool, nice piece.

  201. d2b says:

    You only need one buyer.

    Seriously, a homeowner interviews three agents and the one who claims that they can get the highest price gets hired.

  202. Essex says:

    Whoa. Someone tell me we are not debating education again. Make it your own. Be cool. Be careful. That about sums it up.

  203. plg says:

    I would suggest that most reasonable people would agree that teachers should have better paying, but less secure jobs.

    Tenure is ridiculous. I know many teachers, younger ones, who agree that tenure has got to go. In exchange we should pay teachers more. If you can actually fire the bad teachers that frees up money to pay the competent ones more.

  204. cobbler says:

    As it is extremely difficult to get either teaching or police job in a safe town with blue-ribbon schools – and extremely easy (unless you’ve got a criminal record) to get them in an inner city methinks there is a room to drop the pay for these employees in suburbia and save quite a bit on property taxes. OTOH, in the cities they might can some supervisory educational staff to increase teachers’ pay – and maybe make one work for a few years as a beat cop in Newark before moving to this Mountain Lakes gig.

  205. Essex says:

    206. True. Just make the reviews 360 degree to also account for bad “leadership” and then you have something. Whatever.

    The schools reflect the world. Lots of bell shaped shit goin on.

  206. Essex says:

    Yeah. Oh and consider this one. Folks who “love” kids….will feel differently after spending days on end with em. I cannot imagine. So those that do teach and do it with kindness. Should be paid at least as much as six figures. And then some.

  207. Al Gore says:

    162. LMAO.

    If this board were administration it wouldnt just be layoffs there would be bulldozers at every school and POS cape.

    Camden would probably be leveled in a week.

  208. confused in NJ says:

    Public employees should have AT&T retiree medical coverage. You can go to any doctor you choose, if you pay the cost yourself. You can get any precription you want, if you pay the cost yourself. They give you nice reports on medical charges and what YOU paid out of pocket. This is the new High Deductible Medical Plans enacted by Congress in 2004 for Private Sector Only retirees.

  209. Al Gore says:

    168. Yeah the words of SAS that stick in my head, “think of it as the consolidation of capital.”

    I also read a report that as of Sept 2010 the money markets are no longer insured by the FDIC.

  210. scribe says:

    grim, #203

    Why, thank you, Grim :)

    Now, if I can just find a way to work John into a story!


  211. bi says:

    199#, it’s very misleading. yes. you can make one or two big shot. but honestly, how much (in percentage term) have you made trading srs since 2007?;range=5d;indicator=volume;charttype=candlestick;crosshair=on;ohlcvalues=0;logscale=off;source=undefined

  212. Schumpeter says:

    bi (214)-

    Shut up, idiot.

    If anybody here needs a good journalist, I can highly recommend Scribe. Very thorough, very patient and very concerned about getting it exactly right.

    I think she would be great at hatchet jobs and disinformation campaigns. :)

  213. scribe says:


    why, thank you, clot :)

  214. Al Gore says:

    FDIC Consumer News

    Fall 2009

    No Safer Place in the World for Your Money
    Why the FDIC’s guarantee is rock-solid
    “No insured depositor has ever lost a penny of insured deposits — and none ever will. The FDIC was created specifically for times like these. Our resources are strong. Your insured deposits are absolutely safe.”

    – FDIC Chairman Sheila C. Bair

  215. Schumpeter says:


    -FDIC Chairman Sheila C. Bair

  216. Al Gore says:

    Climate Change Data Dumped: How Huge Is This Scandal?
    SCIENTISTS at the University of East Anglia (UEA) have admitted throwing away much of the raw temperature data on which their predictions of global warming are based.

    It means that other academics are not able to check basic calculations said to show a long-term rise in temperature over the past 150 years.

    The UEA’s Climatic Research Unit (CRU) was forced to reveal the loss following requests for the data under Freedom of Information legislation.

    Copenhagen Meeting starts on Dec 7th Yes Pearl Harbor day. Obama is going.



  217. bi says:

    215#, shump,that kind of puff-puff may work in selling houses but it doesn’t cut in trading/investment publications. people want to look at numbers first.

    if i were you, i would start by saying my account is down x percent up to yesterday’s close, which is y percent better than srs, which has been down 92% since july 2007.

  218. renter says:

    Living in Unity
    Residents in this small Maine town embrace Amish neighbors and their belief in leading a simple life

    Perhaps all potential compound members should have to serve an internship with an Amish community…..

  219. NJGator says:

    Kettle – we did indeed bring Lil Gator to a Brass Rail GTG when he was 2 or 3. When he got bored, I took him to Hoboken Terminal to watch the trains come and go and to run the model set in the waiting room.

    I am questionable for Friday. I don’t know if my dad misses Lil Gator enough to pick him up from school and keep him overnight.

  220. willwork4beer says:

    #62. Shore Guy

    Thanks for the update. Micro brewers have been trying to out do each other for a while now in any catagory they can think of, ABV, bitterness units, anything to push the envelope. I’ve never had Uptopias but I have had Sam Adams Triple Bock (17%) and a few Dogfish Head styles that were in the high teens or 20 ABV. They’re interesting but, to be honest, after a certain point they’re just not beer anymore.

    A recommendation for anyone on the board who is looking to try a verÝ high ABV beer, and in keeping with the season: Samichlaus. The name means Santa Claus in the Swiss dialect where its brewed. Its 14% ABV, brewed once a year, cellars well and its sweet like a Christmas beer should be. Its a bargain (compared to Utopias) at around $20 for the four pack.


  221. Cindy says:

    Just as a frame of reference CA to NJ:

    Highest paid teacher in my district MA+75 units 25 years plus earns $75,361.

    I’m @ 28 years experience BA+75 earning $68,656.

    Bigger districts – union districts say in LA or SF earn more.

    5th year with no raises or COLAS – again – non-union.

    I absolutely love what I do and will continue to teach as long as I can. Some years almost do you in – some are better. Great group of kids this year. I couldn’t be more pleased.

    I work August 16th or so to June 16th or so. Two full months off with 1 week at Thanksgiving and 2 weeks for Christmas break. $25.00 co-pays for insurance and $19 co-pay (it has been going up a dollar a year) for meds.

    I pay in $554 a month for retirement then the district matches it.

    We cut $11 million from our budget last year and are now trying to budget a $20 million cut for next year. It is my understanding that we are currently @ 2005 per pupil spending – approx. $5,250 per student. We used to spend approx. $5850.

    31 elementary schools
    5 intermediate
    5 high schools

    5,000 full-time employees
    38,000 students

  222. Cindy says:

    Chicago – I was hoping to find out how the Sorkin presentation/Q&A went. Anything to report?

  223. Schumpeter says:

    bi (220)-

    Shut up, idiot.

  224. Schumpeter says:

    bi (220)-

    You should also apologize to Scribe, who spent plenty of time vetting me…and I’m sure everyone else who contributed info to her article.

    Then again, why expect any decent thing from a classless, lying, scum troll like you?

  225. willwork4beer says:

    #44 thru…

    Shore Guy,

    Please run for office or accept an appointment. I hope you’re at least on the transition team.

  226. Pat says:

    scribe, that was good to read. Thanks for posting.

    I know who you are, but who’s this Chip guy?

    John’s bond adventure can’t be ignored.

    Anyway, if you know of anyone interested in following the story of how a small school can set the standard for quality of life in the Washington, DC area, give me a shout. It’s going to be two years of Shumpeter, restricted land revaluation, emotion and economic formulae.

    But in the end, I’m thinking the school will be saved.

  227. Schumpeter says:

    Schumpeter, je suis. Seconde, ne puis.

  228. Schumpeter says:

    Pat (230)-

    I’m Chip.

    And, is ketchup a vegetable at your school? If so, I’m all in.

  229. Schumpeter says:

    All the GG guys are dealing with the aftermath of the big threesome. Gotta jet.

    Blogging must step aside for culture.

  230. bi says:

    228#, the article is pretty good until last page. when it takes a bsd trader for example, it should at least show his return against some benchmarks. it would give more credibility imo.

  231. willwork4beer says:


    Mrs. Beer’s aunt has been secretary to a high-flying NJ law firm partner for two decades. Saw her at the inlaws Thanksgiving feast. She told me her boss threw his weight behind Christie and was trying to drum up support among his contacts. Some were with him, some were not. Post-election, suddenly the “not” crowd is calling, looking for said partner, now on the transition team, to grant various favors. Standard response is along the lines of, “where were you a month ago?”

    Politics as usual in NJ. We are so fcuked.

  232. Pat says:

    Clot, no kidding? You’re Chip? I mean Shump, no kidding, you’re the soccer loser?


  233. Pat says:

    And it’s not my school, even…just some place with a view I passed a few times and had a feeling it was worth some time.

    Kind of like how some of us got started chatting on this blog, right?

  234. Schumpeter says:

    GG ends badly. Great fun.

    Just marking time until oblivion dawns here.

  235. d2b says:

    Include John in a story?? Scribe, have you ever done anything for Penthouse?

  236. PGC says:


    I think he s too busy trading Dubai debt.

    Trading 40c on Friday, up to 70c today, and who knows tomorrow.

  237. PGC says:

    I think we hve to toast this guy on Friday.

    Bloomberg News Reporter Remembered
    Bloomberg News reporter Mark Pittman died last week at age 52. Although he was not well-known outside Bloomberg, Pittman was a legend inside it. His reporting on credit default swaps suggested the likelihood of a market collapse. Pittman also questioned the financial viability of the pre-crash mortgage culture.

    Bi and Frank, what are the chances of either of you showing up.

  238. sas says:

    sometime this place gives a crick in the neck.


  239. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    (241) County,

    Bi and frank? Not a chance. But I’m coming out to play and I’m bringing my ball.

  240. PGC says:

    A great example of Pitmans work.

    TARP Warrants Show Banks May Reap ‘Ruthless Bargain

    May 22 (Bloomberg) — Banks negotiating to reclaim stock warrants they granted in return for Troubled Asset Relief Program money may shortchange taxpayers by almost $10 billion if Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner’s first sale sets the pace, data compiled by Bloomberg show.

    Scribe, you wrote a great piece, can you take up the mantle here. We need more real reporting.

  241. sas says:

    Bailed-Out AIG Forcing Poor to Choose Between Running Water and Food

  242. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    (225) Cindy

    Chifi is on the NJC line so I’ll report. The evet was well attended and Sorkin gave an overview of what he set out to do and where he wound up. Gave some detail about the process of writing the book and how people broke down into three camps.

    He also noted the breadth of detail, where some memory lapses were famous while some players had detailed data and shared it.

    In response to the big question, no doubt in his mind that we were right on the edge.

    And chifi and I will show off our signed copies of the book at the gtg.

  243. PGC says:

    Back to real estate

    Clot/Schumt anyone giving odds that HM will end up picking up Xanadu at pennies on the dollar. They are the only company that can put it to use and make it work. Its funny that one of the best names in comercial real estate is an animal feed company.

    Former site Ford assembly plant in Edison undergoing make-over

  244. confused in NJ says:

    TRENTON — To help close an unexpected budget gap, the state plans to withhold $20.7 million in aid payments to municipalities, a move that could force cuts in services or higher property taxes, according to three legislative sources briefed on the move.

    This is the start of Property Taxes going through the roof.

  245. A.West says:

    So that’s what a degree in post-modern literature and ethnic studies is good for? Isn’t this what the anti-immigrant crowd was hoping for? To take back the day-labor jobs from immigrants? Except they probably thought it would come with a $40,000/yr salary and benefits too. That’s government day labor.

  246. still_looking says:

    Preface: I realize this is probably a dumb question….

    What happens if the US defaults its debt?


  247. Al Gore says:

    250. Remember what I said about municipal bonds? Lots more of that to come.

  248. Al Gore says:

    252. The US wont default at least not yet. It has a printing press and the debt is denominated in our dollars.

    I mentioned earlier and I want to correct a mistake. Money market funds guarantees ended on 9/18/09 not 9/18/10.

    Keep an eye on that FDIC. They are already broke as hell and they are lying about the number of banks on their watch list. They came out and said they are 8 billion in the hole but have a 80 billion credit line from the public treasury.

    I smell a bank run or bank holiday in 2010. Some would call me crazy but I would rather be crazy and prepared then a sucker. Just keep enough in the bank to cover expenses for 3 months.

    The big boys get bailed out and the little banks go bye bye. Good little banks like Hudson City who were responsible over the past few years are going to be interesting to watch.

  249. Shore Guy says:

    For starters, we don’t get to borrow from overseas anytime during the next 50+ years, so we better not have a budget or trade deficit.

  250. Al Gore says:


    Here is a good article that sums it up.

    You see nothing has changed.

  251. still_looking says:

    Thanks…Al G and SG,

    Currency race to the bottom is on.

    BOJ announces yen QE (down 1.1% already) and their market surges 1.3%

    Everything I read includes the same line: “This isn’t going to end well…”

    Not too many other people seem to notice or care about this though….


  252. Al Gore says:


    probably because they are living paycheck to paycheck. Those that arent need to make sure they can keep it that way.

  253. still_looking says:


    is the article that is causing me angst…

    (thanks for the Krugman op-ed)


  254. Mantalooker says:

    A good Book…

    ” New Jersey’s Municipal Madness ”
    Author Mr. Karcher ( former state rep) deceased. Amazon may have avail. local lib , also

    His daughter Ellen Karcher may still be active in Pol. in NJ , Sayreville

    The book presented a blueprint and rationale for consolidating the hundreds of NJ towns. Book years old…

    Highly regarded when published then…. ha ha ha

    I used to love Cardinale collecting campaign $$ at the Asbury Park toll stop… it was legal I think… and at toll exit 114 if you didn’t have exact change you sent it in to the PKWY authority… Exit 114 had lots of envelopes taped to booth with the dime… and then Quarter taped inside… woowwwww…

    Sing with Archie and Edith…. ” Thooooossssssseee wereeee theeeee dayyyyyssssss… ”

    Never again… watch your #*% wherever you go… even in Holmdel… sorry gang…

    Meteoric rise…Astoria to Hazlet to Holmdel to Mantaloking, and NYC… what a ride… sold all in 2005… here in FL…

    Remember Meteors drop to earth they don’t


  255. Al Gore says:

    Bank Failures in Brief
    The list of Bank Failures in Brief is updated through November 20, 2009. Please address questions on this subject to the Customer Service Hotline (telephone: 888-206-4662).

Comments are closed.