NJ Unemployment Hits 33 Year High

From the Record:

NJ unemployment rate hits highest mark in nearly 33 years

In a blow to hopes of a quick recovery, New Jersey lost 2,300 jobs in December and unemployment rose to 10.1 percent – the highest level in nearly 33 years, figures released Wednesday show.

The job loss takes the number of jobs lost in 2009 to 90,100, about the same as in 2008, according to the monthly employment report released by the New Jersey Department of Labor and Workforce Development.

New Jersey’s unemployment rate is now 0.1 of a percentage point higher than the national rate of 10 percent. The state started the year with a rate of 7.3 percent.

From the Star Ledger:

N.J. unemployment rate rises to 10.1 percent

The New Jersey unemployment rate cracked the 10 percent mark in December after hovering just below it for several months.

The state lost 2,300 jobs, including 1,100 private-sector jobs, to bring the unemployment rate to 10.1 percent, up from 9.7 percent in November, and 6.8 percent in December 2008, the state labor department said today.

Manufacturing, construction and financial activities sectors lost the most jobs, while other sectors gained.

From the Philly Inquirer:

N.J. jobless rate rises, tops U.S. level

New Jersey’s unemployment rate rose in December to the highest in 33 years as employers in manufacturing, construction and financial services continued to cut jobs, the state said today.

Overall, New Jersey lost 2,300 jobs last month, boosting the unemployment rate to 10.1 percent, from 9.7 percent in November. December marked the first time since October 2006 that the state’s jobless rate was higher than the nation’s, which was 10 percent.

It is significant that the state’s total workforce – those employed and those looking for work – fell by 2,500 in December, which means those people stopped trying to find jobs.

Five of the 10 sectors in private industry reduced employment last month, four added jobs, and one was unchanged, the state Department of Labor and Workforce Development said.

The biggest cuts were made by manufacturers (5,400 jobs), construction contractors (2,400), and financial-service firms (1,700).

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111 Responses to NJ Unemployment Hits 33 Year High

  1. Essex says:

    But what about my Pony???

  2. Er, isn’t this close to 100% of GDP?

    I guess it’s ok, since Japan’s debt is 200% of GDP, and they haven’t exploded into civil war yet.

    From Dow Jones:

    “Senate Democrats are to seek an increase to the federal government’s borrowing limit by $1.9 trillion lifting the total amount the U.S. government can owe to $14.294 trillion, several congressional aides said Wednesday.

    The increase is forecast to support the federal government’s borrowing needs the end of 2010, one Senate Democratic aide said.

    The borrowing hike comes fast on the heels of a $290 billion increase to the debt ceiling agreed to by lawmakers at the end of 2009.”

  3. db says:

    Mr Corzine have you no shame ? If you recall, one of the Corzine excuses for sending those 5 extra-special cities that $121 million the state doesn’t have was that he had balanced the budget and was leaving him with a $500 million surplus?

    Well apparently that $500 million surplus is actually a $1 billion deficit.

  4. grim says:

    Damn, Sig just had to send me a $300 rebate on the 556 rifle..

  5. Shore Guy says:

    Note to congress, just like people who were deep in debt could not spend themselves into prosperity, the key is for the USG to stop spending so much.

  6. homeboken says:

    Condition – We are looking at this all wrong.

    Let’s say the government can print 100,000 $100 bills per hour.

    That means if run the presses non-stop for 21.7 years, we will have enough money to cover the $1.9 trillion proposed increse to the debt ceiling.

    I feel so much better now.

  7. relo says:

    6: Easy fix. Chage the plates to higher denominations.

  8. Shore Guy says:

    Those bills can be bundled into nice fire starters or even logs

  9. Shore Guy says:

    The unemployment rate does not mater, we have high home values and close proximity to Manhattan.

  10. homeboken says:

    Relo – or better yet, channel Monty Burns and get him to release the $1 trillion bill he has in his vault.

  11. Shore Guy says:

    “Democrats are to seek an increase to the federal government’s borrowing limit by $1.9 trillion lifting the total amount the U.S. government can owe to $14.294 trillion, several congressional aides said Wednesday”

    Didn’t we just raise the limit by a similar amount about a MONTH ago?

  12. relo says:

    11: They’re HOPING no one noticed, what with the holidays and all.

  13. chicagofinance says:

    poor guy says:
    January 20, 2010 at 3:03 pm
    what is the best place to buy used furniture?

    fleasandbedbugs dot com

  14. chicagofinance says:

    JANUARY 20, 2010

    One Cross of Gold, Coming Up
    These are polarized times, but one thing everyone agrees on is that it sure is great when government makes a profit.

    Supporters of President Obama like to point to recent TARP-loan payoffs, plus interest, as an example of federal success. His opponents, by and large, have long held that government should be run like a business; their former leader, George W. Bush, once announced that “government should be market-based.”

    It is a terrible idea. Were the government actually to begin understanding itself as a market-based, profit-maximizing enterprise, determined to bring down the deficit by whatever means present themselves, can there be any doubt what it would do?

    It would sell gold. Oh, it would sell lots of gold. It would put Fort Knox on eBay. Mr. Obama could film the TV commercials.

    The first reason for this is obvious: The price of gold is over $1,100 per ounce, near its all-time high in nominal dollars. At that price, the Treasury’s 261 million of ounces of gold would be worth nearly $300 billion. Meanwhile, the government’s enormous hoard of the stuff is valued by the Treasury—according to a Web page entitled, “Fun Facts About the United States Mint”—at only $42.22 per ounce. If they’re saving it for a rainy day, that day has arrived.

    I know what you’re thinking: Stupid liberal, if the Treasury started unloading its gold—if it gave even the merest hint of doing so—it would send the price of that commodity plummeting.

    Which brings us to reason two. The other day, as I watched the zillionth commercial for gold investments flicker by on Fox News, I thought to myself: What would happen to the American right if the price of gold suddenly tanked?

    As anyone knows who has Googled the phrase, “FDR Gold Confiscation,” gold has long been the obsessive investment choice of a certain species of antigovernment crank. Its allure is especially strong for the disaster cohort—for those who believe that hyperinflation is just around the corner; that default by the U.S. government is a real possibility; and that democracy itself is something of a fraud, a populist Ponzi scheme pulled off by slimy politicians and the central bankers they’ve hired to run the printing presses.

    One reason gold has been bid to its current stratospheric heights is because more and more investors and fund managers have signed on to this dark belief that America’s judgment day has finally come.

    Were the administration to get started on the great gold dump, however, we’d come to a different judgment day very quickly. When the massively inflated price of that metal collapsed, it would probably take with it a hefty chunk of the portfolios of tea-party types, survivalists, Birchers, dittoheads, Objectivists and almost every imaginable species of secular end-timer.

    Achieving such an effect might not even require selling the gold, either: The government could conceivably collapse the price merely by implying that it intended to sell the stuff.

    Of course, it is an article of my corny liberal faith that government should never craft policy merely in order to damage its partisan opponents. But if you believe that government should be run like a business, then this, too, becomes thinkable. It was the supremely market-minded men of Republican Washington, after all, who made “Defund the Left” into one of their movement’s guiding principles. It was they who dreamed up the “K Street Project” and the other schemes that were designed to reward GOP loyalists and redirect the revenue streams of the Democratic Party.

    If it’s all about profit, why not take a page from that playbook? Besides, the right already believes Mr. Obama to be an unholy amalgam of Machiavelli, Pol Pot, and Bathhouse John Coughlin, guilty of the worst deviltry Chicago has to offer. Why not serve a little up?

    Just for fun, the administration could then smooth the whole thing over with some tactical libertarian cant. It might declare that the price of gold had been propped up artificially for decades by the state’s irrational hoarding. Privatization is a far better option, administration officials might purr. It lets the market speak.

    And so, in an irony worthy of Oscar Wilde, it would be the gold-investing contingent of the right who would discover that they had risked their fortunes on the whim of the very government they distrust and despise.

    But it is the opposite irony that probably ensures that a great gold-dump will not take place. In addition to denting the holdings of countless extremists, such a move would also deal a massive blow to the hedge funds that have reportedly made enormous bets on the barbaric metal. Their losses would then reverberate through the financial system, inevitably shaking the institutions deemed “too big to fail.” And before long, government would have to ride to the rescue of those who have wagered so much on the government’s collapse.

  15. Shore Guy says:


    Do you have the date of the last debt limit increase and the amount handy?

  16. chicagofinance says:

    grim unmod

  17. Shore Guy says:

    Who knew he went into tax policy after the singing thing ended.

  18. Shore Guy says:

    My mistake, the last increase was less than $300 billion just befote Christmas.

    Senate OKs $290 billion hike to debt limit

    By Jeanne Sahadi, senior writer
    December 24, 2009: 08:31 AM EST

    With the federal government inching close to the debt ceiling, the Senate on Thursday passed a $290 billion increase to the amount of debt the Treasury is allowed to have

  19. relo says:

    18: Singing is being generous, but it was music to my teenaged ears.

    Maybe debt increase was proposed last month, passed now?


  20. Al "The Thermostat" Gore says:


    Too bad the Chinese actually test the gold for authenticity. The 400oz tungsten bars the Gov claims to have in Fort Knox arent really there.

  21. Shore Guy says:


    I got into a parking lotb and looked. The 290Bn was to get us past the holidays without a collapse, which will come on the 15th of Feb if we don’t increase the limit again.
    Since we KNOWO we will never NOT increase the statutory limit, so as to prevent statutory default, we might as well just print a mobius strip in the legislation instead of a specific dollar amount.

  22. Shore Guy says:

    Know even

  23. Shore Guy says:

    $2.29 TRILLION increase in the debt limit in 30 days! We have become pathetic in our control of our finances. Bush sucked and B.O. blows.

  24. yikes says:

    Comrade Nom Deplume, a.k.a. “The Goon Squad” says:
    January 20, 2010 at 11:04 am

    FWIW, I won’t shop R+F. Got the runaround once from them, cancelled my order, and won’t go back.

    i wrote about a bad encounter at their store in Bucks County recently.

    we’re probably done with Raymor. So overrated

  25. Fiddy Cents on the Dollar says:

    Those debt figures are truly astounding. And I thought Bush did a number on the surplus he inherited…..but these Democrats are like sailors on leave.

    Do these current debt numbers include the Social Security shortfall or any Medicare defecit spending ???

  26. yikes says:

    great story about JC Penney subcontractors (furniture discussion from earlier today):

    order a living room set in 2008.
    it comes – at like 5 pm. last delivery of the day.

    the guys bring both sofas in and set them down. we inspect them and there is a massive gash in the fabric on the back of one sofa. the workers were like, ‘the sofa will be up against the wall, nobody would notice.’ wife gave them a glare and that was that.

    subcontractors are the worst.

    (fingers crossed for friday delivery!)

  27. confused in NJ says:

    The present denominations of our currency in production are $1, $2, 5$, $10, $20, $50 and $100. The purpose of the United States currency system is to serve the needs of the public and these denominations meet that goal. Neither the Department of the Treasury nor the Federal Reserve System has any plans to change the denominations in use today.


    What was the largest currency denomination ever produced?

    The largest denomination of currency ever printed by the Bureau of Engraving and Printing (BEP) was the $100,000 Series 1934 Gold Certificate featuring the portrait of President Wilson. These notes were printed from December 18, 1934 through January 9, 1935 and were issued by the Treasurer of the United States to Federal Reserve Banks only against an equal amount of gold bullion held by the Treasury Department. The notes were used only for official transactions between Federal Reserve Banks and were not circulated among the general public.


    What denominations of currency notes is the Treasury Department no longer printing?

    On July 14, 1969, David M. Kennedy, the 60th Secretary of the Treasury, and officials at the Federal Reserve Board announced that they would immediately stop distributing currency in denominations of $500, $1,000, $5,000 and $10,000. Production of these denominations stopped during World War II. Their main purpose was for bank transfer payments. With the arrival of more secure transfer technologies, however, they were no longer needed for that purpose. While these notes are legal tender and may still be found in circulation today, the Federal Reserve Banks remove them from circulation and destroy them as they are received

  28. NJGator says:

    Barbara – Thought you might find this interesting since you are considering moving to Montclair.

    Here’s a report from our volunteer Capital Finance Committee on the proposed Senior Center Purchase. The thrust of the report is that Montclair is just a girl who can’t say no. We’ve gone from $72,455,097 in debt in 1999 to $181,166,546 in debt today. The even scarier story of that number is that most of it is currently financed as interest only notes @ 1.5% and the notes will have to be converted over to bonds where we pay down the principal over the next few years increasing the cost of the debt service up to $1800/taxpayer/year in the near future.

    Scary stuff. Don’t say you haven’t been forewarned.

    Now who wants to bet that the current town council goes ahead with the foolish purchase even after reading this report?


  29. safeashouses says:

    #29 NJGator

    Ouch. Good thing everyone in Montclair is rich. And besides high taxes will keep out the 1993 Honda driving riff raff. :P

  30. Shore Guy says:

    “Do these current debt numbers include the Social Security shortfall”

    No. It is not unfunded but anticipated debt, just honest-to-God debt on purchases.

  31. pg says:

    Its pretty obvious what Christie is doing.

    “OH, Corzine left a $1 Billion hole that he didn’t tell us about!”

    He can do some massive cutting to close that gap, which will help with next year’s budget and blame it all on Corzine!

  32. Shore Guy says:

    Boy, between Montclair, Trenton, and DC, it is hard to believe that they are called “tax-and-spend Democrats.” How did that ever come to be?

  33. frank says:

    “NJ unemployment rate hits highest mark in nearly 33 years”
    Need a job? Move from NJ. Mexico has unemployment rate of 6% and it’s warm there.

  34. safeashouses says:

    I’m hoping this one sells soon and drives down the prices for smaller similar houses in the area. It was listed in September 09 at 539 and is now down to 449k. It’s a 5 bedroom 3 bath renovated colonial. There are more than 6 similar houses that are 3/4 bedrooms and 1.5/2 baths listed at 439 to 489k in the area.


  35. safeashouses says:

    #35 correction

    According to Trulia started out at 534,900

  36. safeashouses says:


    We really like this style house. We just don’t need a 5 bed 3/bath and I don’t want to pay the taxes or utilities that go with the extra square footage. (I am kind of cheap)

  37. yikes says:

    The Condition-Code Red says:
    January 20, 2010 at 11:49 am

    Anyone buying furniture right now should look for these features:

    1. Big enough to barricade doors.

    2. Wide enough to cover windows when tipped upright.

    3. Thick enough to stop or slow small arms fire.

    4. Fragile enough to break apart easily for building fires.

    how can people not love clot?
    what are you reading these days, Clot

  38. PGC says:

    Shore / Nom,

    “is that we are tossing aside income generating activities that are no longer worth the effort given the time it takes away from family and recreation.”

    This is not a cost of Carry question, but a Linda Evangelista, how much do you need to make to get you out of bed.

    Buffet is well known for saying that his 17% tax rate is wriong and he should be taxed more.

  39. NJGator says:

    Safe 38 – That one’s on a really busy road – Northfield


  40. safeashouses says:

    #40 NJGator,

    I know. But it is listed at 10% below its assessed value. Hoping that translates to 10% below assesed value fo onr the ones sidestreets as well. 4 bedroom colonials would then be 380 or so. Probably wishful thinking on my part.

  41. chicagofinance says:

    Stu: I appreciate your point, but if there was a town down here similar to Ridgewood, it would be Rumson. Still, as you know, even though Ridgewood, Westfield, Summit, Princeton et al are all of the same species, the variations are very specific. Colts Neck is quirky in certain ways, shockingly rural and also just too far out for a comfortable NYC commute, so it has a bit of a different vibe. Certainly plenty of people that are pleased with themselves, but there is something a little bit less insidious about the place.

    47.Stu aka The Sausage Party says:
    January 20, 2010 at 9:38 am
    ChiFi: (from last night)
    You rip Ridgewood and then rent in Colts Neck?
    What gives?
    “The entire town needs to be leveled……”
    Just ignore that I live in the Regal Republic of Montclair please.

  42. chicagofinance says:

    That said, I can walk down to the corner and look at an equestrian training run, or else stop off at the plastic surgeon….does that rhyme?

    42.chicagofinance says:
    January 20, 2010 at 9:26 pm
    Certainly plenty of people that are pleased with themselves, but there is something a little bit less insidious about the place.

  43. NJGator says:

    Safe 41 – Not all assessments are equal. Livingston reval was done by ASI (same company that did Montclair) and I can talk your ear off for an entire evening about the problems I’ve found with their numbers.

    Also it’s possible, as we’re seeing here, that not all properties are dropping equally. Our home has dropped 25% from it’s original assessment easily, however the sale price/assessment ratio is still close to 100% in Montclair. In Livingston that number is 95.24% for this tax year – which means that the average home last year sold for more than it’s assessment.

  44. chicagofinance says:

    The end is nigh….AND THE HEX IS ON :(

    Jets’ Sanchez on cover of Sports Illustrated

    Let’s hope the Jets don’t believe in jinxes.

    Rookie quarterback Mark Sanchez is on the cover of Sports Illustrated, joining a handful of Jets who have been so honored by the magazine.

    “I’m just excited for the (AFC Championship) game, really,” Sanchez said when asked about the cover. “That’s my sole focus. … This is the most important thing we got going, nothing’s even close right now. So, I mean, magazine covers, new movies coming out, a new restaurant opening, it doesn’t matter.

    “We have a really special opportunity, we just want to capitalize now. it is an honor, and thanks to them, but I’m really focused on this game.”

    With the cover line “Jets Soaring,” the featured story calls the Jets “party crashers” who “have quickly developed into a pesky, confident team in [Rex] Ryan’s likeness that excels in the elements most important to playoff football.”

    “We know everyone wants to see Favre and Manning in the Super Bowl, but we’re the party crashers. Watch out,” Bart Scott says in the story by Peter King.

    Joe Namath was featured on four SI covers; Brett Favre, Keyshawn Johnson, Bill Parcells and Mark Gastineau were on once each.

    The mythic Sports Illustrated cover jinx may have derailed both Favre and Johnson. Favre was on the Sept. 15, 2008 cover after a win over the Dolphins; that team did not make the playoffs.

    Johnson was featured Jan. 18, 1999 after a divisional-round playoff win over the Jaguars. The Jets lost the AFC Chapionship the next week to the Broncos.

    Sanchez is similarly featured after a dvisional win over the Chargers, with the Colts waiting in Sunday’s AFC Championship.

  45. Barbara aka B-Cat says:

    29. Gator thanks for that. That bond stuff is really commonplace in NJ, happening here for 10 years or so so I don’t know where to go for better results except maybe Salem County *shudder*

  46. sas says:


    ahh.. who cares?

    Its foosball playoff time.


  47. NJGator says:

    Barbara – I think the biggest issue is that there is NO plan with regards to spending. Each purchase is analyzed not within the whole bigger picture, but just by itself. That will only cost the taxpayer $50…no biggie. No one is doing the math and looking at all the other little things that now tally up to a few hundred dollars for each taxpayer.

    After this report was presented to the council, the Town Manager and the Council members all kept repeating that the school spending was “the big elephant in the room”. Yet no one is making an effort to keep that under control. And they seem to feel justified in wasting “only $3.5M” on this unneeded senior center because it is less than the $35M spent on the new school.

  48. safeashouses says:

    #44 Gator

    Don’t rain on my parade!! Here’s another one in Livingston listed at about 25% off its assessed value.


    I’m hoping the dam is finally breaking and we’ll be able to get a house around a 2002 early 2003 price.

  49. NJGator says:

    Barbara – it would also be interesting to compare debt loads for Montclair and other towns. I wonder if there is a place that consolidates that info for all towns in NJ.

  50. sas says:


    “2002 early 2003 price”

    aint that still close to the peak prices?


  51. NJGator says:

    Safe 49 – Much better location. My guess is that some more updated house sold high right before the reval and ASI threw the premium into the neighborhood land instead of factoring it into the improvement value for only the house that sold.

    $378,500 assessment for almost 1/2 acre of land. We got hit for $403,000 on our assessment for not even 1/4 acre!

  52. Al "The Thermostat" Gore says:

    The voters need to shut down the school budget every April on the ballot.

    People need to start realizing the seriousness of this debt they are taking on. The homeowners have the most to lose which is really why I envy the renters.

    Look whats going on in Illinois.
    “We would like all the stakeholders of Illinois to recognize how close the state is to bankruptcy or insolvency,” says Laurence Msall, president of the Civic Federation, a fiscal watchdog in Chicago.

    Legal experts say the protections of the federal bankruptcy code are available to cities and counties but not states.

    While Illinois doesn’t have the option of shutting its doors or shedding debts in a bankruptcy reorganization, it seems powerless to avert the practical equivalent. Despite a budget shortfall estimated to be as high as $5.7 billion, state officials haven’t shown the political will to either raise taxes or cut spending sufficiently to close the gap.

    In addition to its day-to-day budget, Illinois faces rising pension expenses in coming years. Lawmakers have skimped on required contributions to employee pension funds and even borrowed to make those smaller payments. Unfunded liabilities and pension debt are projected to reach $95 billion by June 30.

    The sharp rise in pension payments is the biggest factor pushing Illinois toward what a legislative task force last November called “a ‘tipping point’ beyond which it will be impossible to reverse the fiscal slide into bankruptcy.

    While the Illinois Constitution protects vested pension benefits, that promise, like all the state’s obligations, is only as good as its ability to pay…If the state is found to be insolvent under the classical cash-flow definition of insolvency, which is ‘the inability to pay debts as they come due,’ it is not only the pension rights of non-vested employees that will be in jeopardy. All the obligations of the state, whether vested or not, will be competing for funding with the other essential responsibilities of state government. Even vested pension rights are jeopardized when a government is insolvent.”

  53. safeashouses says:

    #51 sas

    That would still be 30 to 40% off peak in Livingston. Center/Side hall colonials were going for 440k in 2004 but in the low 300s in 2002. From looking at sales records I really think those colonials went up 15 to 20% a year from 2001 to 2006.

    Plus we are tired of moving. We’ve moved 8 times in 12 years. If we buy something and it drops another 10 to 15% I wouldn’t care (well as long as we didn’t have to sell it).

  54. NJGator says:

    Al Gore 53 – I would gladly vote against my school budget if only I had the right to vote on it. We have an appointed school board here. Towns with appointed boards do not hold public votes on budgets. We have a Board of School Estimate that includes 2 members of the appointed BOE (appointed by the Mayor), the Mayor and 2 Council members of the Mayor’s choosing. Our mayor is on public record stating that he will not go after the school budget because “it’s the schools that make our town so great.”

    A recent ballot question that would change to an appointed board was voted down 57-43%.

  55. sas says:

    “Plus we are tired of moving. We’ve moved 8 times in 12 years.”

    i understand, gotta draw a line in the sand somewhere.

    you job prospects looking good for long term too?


  56. safeashouses says:

    #52 gator

    I have seen quite a few houses listed at 10% or more below assessed value. I’ve also seen about an equal number listed at to 10% plus above assessed. Even for houses in the same elementary school zone on side streets. These pricing irregularities are driving me crazy.

  57. sas says:

    Al “The Thermostat” Gore,

    you can kiss Illinois goodbye.

    Time to sell it all & privatize everything
    (not that I agree with that, but thats more then likely what will happen).


  58. Shore Guy says:


    Maybe the Mayor is a fan of The Music Man. With apologies to the Pick-A-Little Ladies:

    Tax a little
    Spend a little
    Tax a little
    Spend a little
    Can’t be cheap
    To live in Montclair

  59. sas says:

    speaking of jobs.

    My grandkids tuitions went up, and the Jamaican nanny wants a raise.

    so, forget retirement.

    and this change in the barometer…its killing my shoulder. I think I did a light tear in the rotator cuff working a gig the other day.


  60. Barbara aka B-Cat says:

    gator, thoughts on this house? price and location wise. its not my fav style of house but the vintage is good.


  61. Al "The Thermostat" Gore says:

    55. Its like being a passenger in a hijacked plane. Unbelievable. They do some shady deals here as well. Voters knock down the budget then the council and board work out a backroom deal. We decreased the budget last year by 2.6 million and taxes about 60 bucks on average. The pensions were fully funded not deferred.

    Ultimately the educational cartel must be stopped.

  62. safeashouses says:

    #56 sas

    Have no idea on how stable the job is. I don’t think anyone without a multiyear guaranteed contract has job security.

  63. NJGator says:

    As best I can tell Shore, our Mayor is just a fan of bicycles! Not much effort to rein in taxes, but he did pass legislation to spend up to an extra 20% on every road project to create “complete streets” and also just passed legislation to require bike racks on updated properties (commercial and multi-family) all over town. I think it was the bike racks that started all the recall talk.

  64. sas says:

    Al “The Thermostat” Gore,

    “Ultimately the educational cartel must be stopped.”

    Its much more deeper than economics.
    There is a reason why they call it a “class”room.


  65. Barbara aka B-Cat says:

    Al “The Thermostat” Gore says:
    January 20, 2010 at 10:36 pm

    55. Its like being a passenger in a hijacked plane. Unbelievable.

    but it can cut both ways. we have an appointed school board here too, and I want it to stay that way because if the welfare cases were left in charge the budget would triple. Depends on the make up of the town.

  66. Shore Guy says:


    Scr-ew the assessment. Scr-ew the list prices. Find a what value the property has to you and either bid or don’t bid. Otherwise, you will drive yourself nuts.

    If you make 10 offers and they all get rejected, so be it.

    We are looking at some island property, which I know is different because nobody needs an extra house in light-blue water and one can walk away from a deal easire. That said, we refuse to pay anything more than 2002 pricing and we use that as the limit on ourselves, just to keep ourselves from getting carried away with NEEDING a particular place. We hve no problem with RE agents getting pi$$ed at us over the lowness of an offer, nor do we have any objection to homeowners getting insulted. Look, if you want to accept the offer, fine. If not, fine. Just don’t get all “personal.” You are selling something, I am buying, maybe. We refuse to pay more than something is worth to us regsrdless of how many other people do, and no matter how many opportunities we “miss out on.”

    I look at missing out on overpaying for something like a house has being analogous to missing out on the opportunity to sleep with someone who carries nasty microbiological infection; the consumation of the deal might feel good, but the downsides are there for a long time and tend to diminish the benefit of the bargain.

  67. Shore Guy says:

    Maybe the economy needs housing penicillin.

  68. Shore Guy says:


    If Sastry is lurking around, he may have some insight into not jumping to buy even though you really want to, and into waiting for the right place at the right price.


  69. Al "The Thermostat" Gore says:

    65. Ya, its indoctrination which is why I will be sending my kid to parochial school. History will be taught at home by me and it will include the Federal Reserve and mandatory readings of the Declaration of Independence and Constitution.

  70. Shore Guy says:

    Constitution? Right-wing freak. Hope and fairness is all we need now. Get with the reeducation program.

  71. NJGator says:

    Barbara 61 – Great section of town. You’d be our neighbor (we’re just a few blocks away). There’s lots of great things withing walking distance of there – the train, the bus, restaurants, pharmacy, etc. The house looks nice, but Grove is a pretty busy county road. We have to cross it all the time to walk to Marzullos or the pharmacy and no one stops at any of the crosswalks on that street.

    If you buy it, you’d better file a tax appeal. What the heck was ASI thinking? $420,500 for that lot? It doesn’t look like they applied any discount for traffic to the land value. And the bathrooms don’t look renovated. No way that house would hav epulled in $675k at peak. Makes no sense!

    If you’re going to take a look at it, stop by and say hi. You can get our emails from Grim.

  72. sas says:

    “Constitution? ”

    what is that? never heard that word before. Maybe AC360 or Geraldo will tell me.


    PS. Vegas wasn’t built on winners.

  73. Barbara aka B-Cat says:

    lookie look, its another real esate “Dream Team”!


    female? check
    menopausal? check
    stupid poses? check X4

    call now and prepare for cheesy information about mediocre properties that are 35% overpriced!

  74. Barbara aka B-Cat says:

    what are the taxes on that? I didnt see the info on realtor.com

  75. still_looking aka Tan-Less says:

    SAS, 60

    Beware shoulder pain. Many dangerous conditions present themselves as shoulder pain.

    I always warn my nurses to fear “shoulder pain”

    Left shoulder pain can be:
    1) heart attack
    ***2) perforated or bleeding stomach ulcer
    3) enlarged or “fractured” spleen
    4) many other things.

    Right shoulder pain can be:
    1) gallbladder problems
    2) aortic dissection
    3) many other things

    *** I have a sad story about this regarding a misdiagnosis. Shoulder pain that was actually a bleeding ulcer. Pt kept taking ibuprofen (Advil) for relief but pain kept getting worse. Found on floor in bathroom unconscious after vomiting blood. Bled out, died enroute to hospital. Pt was 45 y/o.

    Beware shoulder pain – my nurses know to fear shoulder pain.


  76. sas says:

    Barbara aka B-Cat,

    “If you’re asking “Keller who?”

  77. still_looking aka Tan-Less says:

    *** in honor of Nom ***

    Disclaimer: I am not your doctor. You should take my advice with a grain of sodium free salt and schedule an appt with your own doctor.


  78. NJGator says:

    Barbara 75 – $15,500. But if assessed fairly, they should be between $12k and $13k.


  79. Barbara aka B-Cat says:

    I know, they’re all over realtor.com like a cancer. WE AREN’T ASKING (or buying).

  80. sas says:

    still_looking aka Tan-Less,

    thank you for the post, and I’m sure it educated others as well.

    as for me, I’m an active AARP that belongs in the JDC.


  81. Barbara aka B-Cat says:

    gator, jesus h christmas, 15k? and a year to get a hearing plus the research plus two kids, one’s an infant, plus a big move plus big renovations plus two businesses.
    I need an effective drug problem.

  82. Shore Guy says:

    “You should take my advice with a grain of sodium free salt and schedule an appt with your own doctor”

    And, if in dount, a 24-hour urgeent care favility can rule out/in a need to get emergency care.

  83. Shore Guy says:



    and whatever else I mistyped

  84. NJGator says:

    Barbara 82 – You wouldn’t have to do much research. You could get the town to settle with you on your purchase price. I have friends who did it already this past year. They didn’t reach out to the town to settle beforehand, but we did some minimal research in the Monmouth County db for comps. When they were called for their hearing, the town immediately offered they purchase price as a settlement. If you just filed and called the attorney, you could probably take care of it without ever setting foot in East Orange. If you wanted to pay an appraiser to do the comp legwork for you, we know a good one.

  85. sas says:

    still_looking aka Tan-Less,

    I worry for some of those old farts after a snow storm.

    These old, out of shape mugs go out and shovel their driveway or sidewalk…wala… they drop like a sack of spuds.


  86. Shore Guy says:


    Here is the best part, Barbara. How much do you need to earn to pay for that? Even after the partial kickback from federal taxes — which the AMT takes away anyway (and which you are likely to be into if buying in Montclair) — it is a bunch more. At least the electric and gas rates are low.

  87. Barbara aka B-Cat says:

    I could bite through a nail. And I’m looking in other acceptable towns, same story-even in South Jersey.

  88. Barbara aka B-Cat says:

    85 Gator
    that is good to know, I figured eventually these towns would start doing the math and just settle up. You are a wealth of info on all things ‘clarian!

  89. still_looking aka Tan-Less says:

    SAS, 81, 86

    No Problem. I’ve seen it… the heart attack after shoveling snow.

    Good news is that we have a hypothermia protocol and if they drop outside, it’s easier to chill them down while we resuscitate them. :)


  90. still_looking aka Tan-Less says:

    Shore, 83

    Yah… open 9am to 9pm.

    They are interesting places…I (of course) am biased, though. :)


  91. Shore Guy says:

    BAck of the envelope calculation, after a glass too much wine:

    $15,000.yr property tax (paid with after-tax income, of course)

    Requires that one earn about $24,000 (at just the 28% bracket, counting SS and medicare tax on the income but ignoring state tax rates).

    Now, there is about a $4,000 kickback on property taxes paid in ones income tax, unless one is AMTed out of the deduction. Sor, really, that 15,000 town tax costs you $20,000 in earning if NOT in AMT and if so, Closer to $25,000.

    Such a deal. But at least there are bike racks everywhere.

  92. Shore Guy says:


    I just keep thinking about a little place a short walk from blue water and nice shells.

  93. d2b says:

    Always been interested in those urgent cars facilities. I find it interesting that they can deliver care and rates much cheaper than hospitals. I’ve always said that a healthcare overhaul has to deal with the delivery of services not just how to pay for the status quo. CVS and Walgreens both have store models that include clinics.

  94. NJGator says:

    Shore – and this is not even a big tax bill for Montclair. Over 2100 taxpayers paid more than $20k in annual taxes in 2008 in Montclair.

  95. Barbara aka B-Cat says:

    15k is no big shakes in Planet Clair.

  96. Shore Guy says:

    The sharks smell B.O’s political blood in the water:


  97. Shore Guy says:

    That is nuts. It comes from the “our resident’s can afford it, so lets charge ’em” mentality instead of focusing on what service need to be provided and finding the most effective and reasonably-cost-efficient method of providing those services.

    So $20m tax requires something onthe order of $35,000 earned (and I have little doubt that most of them are in AMT and are getting no property-tax kickbacks from Uncle Sam).

  98. Shore Guy says:

    Just focusing on the tax bill and not the fact that one pays taxes on the money needed to pay the property tax bill (and that the “tax savings” from paying taxes (what a weird concept) does not make up for what one is paying on the extra earnings to pay the property tax in the first place.

  99. NJGator says:

    Shore 98 – We don’t even get a lot of services here. And what we do get is constantly being cut back. As best I can tell, they just burn the money they collect. Well, what’s left of it after they buy the bike racks.

  100. Shore Guy says:

    The mayor has to live in retirement after all.

  101. lisoosh says:

    still – didn’t know you had a hypothermia protocol, good to know, I’ve heard good things about it.

    Question -hubby has pain in his upper back on either side of his spine, between the shoulder blades. Doc knows nothing, x-rays aren’t back yet. My guess had been lung related (stopped smoking a week ago). Already had one heart attack a couple of years ago. Should we be freaking out?

  102. Shore Guy says:

    I need a recomendation: We are looking for a place on an island in U.S. territory, that is not overrun by tourists, and one can find sub $1mm homes. Ideally, the place would have beach houses, not mcmansions by the sea, and would have light blue water and white sand. I prefer it be east of the Mississippi, because of business considerations, and not be so small as to be likely overrun by a storm surge in a hurricane.

    I welcome any suggestions. We are already looking at Sanibel and Captevia but Mrs. Shore needs more choices, and I do not disagree.

  103. Safeashouses says:

    #103 shore guy

    what about the islands in lake champlaign in Vermont? I was out there 10 years ago and they had working farms on them and were 30 or so minutes from Burlington.

  104. Shore Guy says:


    It is worth considering, but it is a bit from the color water and warmth we are seeking.

  105. bones deplume says:

    Just left the office cuz I am taking a mini-vacation after all, and the partners just had to dump work on me that was sitting on their desk for a week. One partner (who knows I am out) still expects me in tomorrow—-didnt say anything but I know he just expects it.

    Another returned a doc with edits—changing the same things he changed yesterday.

    At some level, I am looking forward to getting kicked off the island.

    Would not mind the late night but I am driving to vermont in 5 hours.

  106. Punch My Ticket says:

    Shore [103],

    US territory east of the Mississippi and warm blue water limits you seriously.

    USVI? Puerto Rico?

  107. still_looking aka Tan-Less says:


    you’ve got mail


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