REO the problem? Or the solution?

From HousingWire:

Housing Recovery is Spelled R-E-O

Short sales are a hot topic right now—especially with a much-ballyhooed government program focused on short sales, the Home Affordable Foreclosure Alternatives program, about to come online. But in the end, the real key to resolving the problems that yet remain in housing is likely to come back to an old standby: REO property sales.

Yes, really. But to understand why, you’ve got to first really understand the scope of the mortgage default problem we’ve now got.

According to data from Lender Processing Services, a whopping 7.4m loans are now non-current, compared to just 4.1m on average between January and June of 2008.

Ponder those numbers for just a second. On average, severely delinquent borrowers have gone more than 9 months without making a mortgage payment—and yet foreclosure has not yet started for them. For those borrowers who are in the foreclosure process, it’s been an average of 13.6 months—more than one full year—since they last made any payment on their mortgage.

So, can short sales ride in to save the day for these 7.4m troubled borrowers? What about for the many millions more who are current on their loans, but are underwater on property value and unable to sell? For some, short sales will be an important solution—but don’t kid yourself: the hype currently surrounding short sales and the HAFA program will prove to be short-lived, and REO expertise will be prove to be the key to recovery, as it has been in prior cycles.

Thanks to effective intervention from the government, we won’t see REO volumes soar to peak levels anytime soon—but we will see elevated inflows at least through the mid-2012, out of necessity. And those inflows should be seen as the road to recovery by anyone watching real estate. JPM forecasts, for example, that by Q4 2012, 22-28% of home sales in the Los Angeles region of California will still be REO; in Phoenix, that number is projected to be 39-50%.

These projections underscore a message I’ve shared privately with many industry colleagues recently: recovery in housing is spelled R-E-O. Anything else is wasting time until we get there.

This entry was posted in Economics, Foreclosures, National Real Estate. Bookmark the permalink.

798 Responses to REO the problem? Or the solution?

  1. Dissident HEHEHE says:


  2. grim says:

    From CNBC:

    Housing Market Sure to Double-Dip: Whitney

    The US housing market will face another retreat while mortgage-backed securities and Treasurys are likely to go through a “material” correction, Meredith Whitney, CEO of Meredith Whitney Advisory Group, told CNBC Tuesday.

    “The housing market surely will double dip,” Whitney told “Worldwide Exchange.”

    Government programs to support housing have been “murky” and when the modifications caused by them come to an end, a lot of supply may come to the market and that’s when the real-estate market is likely to go down, she explained.

    Hopes that an improvement in liquidity and continuing investment from China in US assets will prop up mortgage-backed securities (MBS) and Treasurys are exaggerated, Whitney also said.

  3. grim says:

    This one for chifi.. Talk about being fcuked.

    From the WSJ:

    For French Connection, a U-Turn

    The British French Connection Group PLC, known for its sassy and borderline-profane marketing, plans to close most of its U.S. stores and sell its Nicole Farhi brand, serving up a cautionary tale for Zeitgeist-chasing fashion retailers that fail to adjust to a rapidly changing market.

  4. Yikes says:

    is Ridgewood still underwater? what about Wayne?

    northern NJ got hammered, huh?

    our basement took in some water … but not even enough to fill a small dixie cup.

  5. sas says:

    “So, can short sales ride in to save the day for these 7.4m troubled borrowers?”

    lol. sounds like someone’s been smokin bad grass.

    No jobs, and buyers bought too much house out of stupidity and being fraudulently induced by the whole RE cartel.

    ain’t nothing going to “save” 7.4m troubled borrowers. only thing that will save them is to walk away.


  6. sas says:

    i wonder if those nice homes near the gold course near Short Hills got some flooding?


  7. sas says:

    “gold course”

    i mean golf course.


  8. sas says:

    “Forget Greece: Italy derivatives bomb also ticking”

  9. grim says:

    From the Record:

    N.J. taxpayers owe pension fund $45.8 billion

    New Jersey taxpayers face a decades-long continuation of six-figure annual pension payouts and other costly retirement benefits promised to public employees.

    The reason: State law guarantees that pensions for existing workers can’t be altered. Even a package of pending legislation — hailed as the remedy for a system that’s short $45.8 billion — would apply only to new employees and not to the current workforce of some 450,000.

    The guarantee, in a 1997 law signed by Republican Gov. Christie Whitman, has served to insulate public workers from wrenching economic realities that prevail in the private sector. Amid the national recession, for instance, 21 percent of Garden State companies suspended payments to 401(k)s, according to a September survey by the New Jersey Chamber of Commerce. Those companies are not obliged to resume the contributions or make up the difference.

    “In private industry, for those not in a union environment, employers are free to make changes as they see fit,” said Jim O’Connor, managing director of Cbiz EAO benefits, a Manasquan consulting firm. “It’s all business-driven.”

    New Jersey’s government workers have no such retirement uncertainty. The trend in their pension system is ever-growing salaries and a surge in retirees. It’s all underwritten by the country’s highest-taxed property owners — whose elected officials accommodated labor unions, incorrectly counted on eternal pie-in-the-sky investment returns and took little action when a financial crisis was clear.

  10. sas says:

    ok.. I gotta go make the donuts…


  11. Dissident HEHEHE says:

    Hmmmm, skep-tic or Meredith Whitney. Tough choice there:)

  12. Shore Guy says:

    There is one thing about retirement benefits defined by a labor agreement, the current bargaing unit members can agree to modifications that scr-ew the past members who are currently retired by agree to changes that will not affect those bargaininf unit members who are still employed.

    Faced with the prospects of having half the extant workforce laid off, it may prove more appealing to agree to changes that slash benefits to the already “departed.”

    Benefits created by bargaining are not set in stone and a union may freely negotiate changes to them, in the interest of the current bargaining unit members.

  13. Final Doom says:

    The article for this thread is pure bullshit. The sheer quantity of current and future REO- coupled with the stupidity of the banks who control the inventory- assure a complete systemic meltdown of the housing industry.

    If lenders are already mismanaging their REO and lying about valuations and recovery rates, imagine what it will be like when the tsunami really hits.

    Many lenders still do not clearly even understand what they own…much less repair, maintain and properly market these properties in a timely fashion.

    Embrace the oblivion. Because, if you don’t embrace it, it will mow you down like a runaway train.

  14. Final Doom says:

    If REO is so effective, why do so many municipalities have an itchy finger to rev up the bulldozers?

    Ain’t seen nothing yet.

  15. grim says:

    REO as a savior assumes that there are buyers for the REO.

    Which may be true, but at what price?

  16. Final Doom says:

    In many blighted cities, banks try to walk away from their responsibility to repossess.

    In many cases, even when banks foreclose, they don’t repair or maintain the properties.

    I think both instances give us some insight as to the potential valuations of REO.

    I certainly have an idea as to what my investors feel represents fair value for the current REO inventory, and I can report that they are all still on the beach, sipping fruity drinks. A few of them might come inside and watch some March Madness, but eventually the beach and the fruity drinks will lure them back outdoors.

    Gonna be a long walk home.

  17. Final Doom says:

    Blu-117 trumps Repo 105. Economic disaster is the illness; war is the cure.

    “Is war just around the corner? While in theory it would make perfect sense to distract Americans from the long road to US insolvency, and other more pressing issues such as the endless criminality all around us, in practice we have so far heard merely rumors. The Herald of Scotland, however, may have credible proof that a US-led attack on Iran approaches and could be just days away. The newspaper has procured proof of an arms shipment to Diego Garcia, which consists of “of 195 smart, guided, Blu-110 bombs and 192 massive 2000lb Blu-117 bombs…put in place for an assault on Iran’s controversial nuclear facilities.” Additional insight comes from Dan Plesch, director of the Centre for International Studies and Diplomacy at the University of London: “They are gearing up totally for the destruction of Iran. US bombers are ready today to destroy 10,000 targets in Iran in a few hours.” Is war imminent? And will Obama repeat Bush’s mistake with Iraq, resulting in a huge spike in oil, coupled with a rush to safety in dollars and/or gold? If inflation will not start on its own, its has to be kindled: preferably by a Blu-117 bomb. Is the relatively long period of market stability and low volatility about to come to a sudden end?”

  18. Final Doom says:

    Ara Hovnanian coming up on Squawk. Time to reach for the Ipecac, gang.

  19. njescapee says:

    Doom, REOs seem to be moving here in the Fl Keys. It took a couple years but lower priced properties are moving well now. My development had 30ish and was told by property manager (pretty reliable source)one remains as the prospective buyer walked away at inspection due to mold issues from a water heater gone bad. Note to all: These properties are down a little more than 70% from peak in 2004.

  20. PGC says:

    #263 Shore (Prev thread)

    “The chair of the House Rules Committee, under which is generating the rules under which this nonsense is being alowed is Louise Slaughter, she is up by Rochester NY and her home number is ”

    Showing some true class here. Can you post up Mitch McConnels home number as well. I would like to phone his wife at 3AM to voice my thoughts on her husband shutting down the Senate.

  21. Final Doom says:

    escape (20)-

    Amazing what happens to a house in FL when the air conditioner isn’t run during the Summer. The property basically becomes a black mold factory.

    The amount of REO that is completely ruined and uninhabitable is staggering. Marry that fact to God-only-knows-what kind of fantasy valuation banks are putting on this garbage, and you have the payload for a 10-megaton airburst.

    Which should look pretty next to the 10-megaton airburst of the FHA detonation.

  22. Final Doom says:

    PGC (21)-

    Phone calls? Time to vote with a bullet.

  23. Home Advisor says:

    Housing is on the rebound, and with the financial crisis well behind us, house prices will go the way of the stock market – up, Up, UP!
    You too can build equity and have a healthy burgeoning investment with your home purchase.
    Remember: the home buyer tax credit expires April 30th.
    Contact a Realtor today.
    Buy now or risk being priced out!

  24. Final Doom says:


    You should go back to that property manager and find out how many of the people who bought the REO units later discovered major defects.

  25. marty says:

    The reason: State law guarantees that pensions for existing workers can’t be altered. Even a package of pending legislation — hailed as the remedy for a system that’s short $45.8 billion — would apply only to new employees and not to the current workforce of some 450,000.

    The guarantee, in a 1997 law signed by Republican Gov. Christie Whitman, has served to insulate public workers from wrenching economic realities that prevail in the private sector.

    Dumb question but why do we have to pay? How on earth do they extract this? Thats like 2 x your yearly nj tax bill.

  26. jamil van jones says:

    26: We should not pay. As mentioned several times, in Lautenberg decision (among others), NJ Supreme Court confirmed that law is just a guideline and state does not have to follow the law.

    State should declare emergency and just say that only reasonable pensions can be paid (from now on I’m offering free consultation services on defining what constitutes reasonable).

  27. Final Doom says:

    My definition of “reasonable” would include Jamil’s execution.

  28. Final Doom says:

    Jamil, all your pea-brained heroes had a long run at ruling the world. They fcuked it all up.

    Give it a rest.

  29. marty says:

    thanks van jones I needed that, now I won’t punch the first public worker I see in the face.

  30. Final Doom says:

    Jamil, all the people you admire the most are the ones who are privately laughing the hardest at you and your friends.

  31. njescapee says:

    29, hear hear, well said Mr Doom.

  32. Final Doom says:

    The one hope I cling to is that the next generation will survey all the foolishness they’ve inherited from us…and be done with all of it (and, us).

  33. njescapee says:

    29, Jamil, as they say in my old neighborhood, “they queered the deal.”

  34. #27 – We should not pay.

    I believe that might be considered to constitute a domestic default. I could be wrong though.

  35. Shore Guy says:

    “Showing some true class here. Can you post up Mitch McConnels home number as well.”

    In fact I did, or at least posted the link that has every member’s number. Most of them are happy to take home calls, as it allows constituants with a serious concern to bypass their staff and get concerns right to them.

    SO, before going off on someone, you would do well to check your facts. Look at the link below the Slaughter postand use it to get to the information you seek.

    And, for the record, I have no political ax to grind here with anyone. I do have policy differences and do have concerns (well expressed during the Shrub Administration, and renewed with B.O.) that we are being ill served by those in the WH and in control of the Hill. My loyalty is to the Constitution, and not to any given leader.

  36. speedkillsu says:

    #10 ….Grim . the best way out of this mess since the state can’t default on pensions would be to force towns to pay up on pensions ,which would be all but impossibly without having property tax rocket up 100 to 300pct ….towns can default

  37. Shore Guy says:

    I can see it now, the State shifts its debt to the towns and cities and then let’s them go BK.

    Likewise, I would not be surprised to see the Fed buy up all the USG debt, thus clearing the decks, and then going BK. The USG then reconstitutes a new Bank of the US, and technically has never defaulted.

  38. Final Doom says:

    speed (37)-

    I think you’ve hit on the real game plan. This also seems to be the path that CA’s going to take.

    Cascading municipal BKs. Good times.

  39. chicagofinance says:

    It is only fitting that fcuk is shutting down in the US.

    29.Final Doom says:
    March 16, 2010 at 8:11 am
    Jamil, all your pea-brained heroes had a long run at ruling the world. They fcuked it all up.

    Give it a rest.

  40. chicagofinance says:

    grim is such a ballooning slackwad…we are still on EST……

  41. NJGator says:

    Grim – You think the wave of short sales at The Reserve is going to move onto The Siena?

    GSMLS 2681694 LP $605,990
    SOLD 5/2008 $679,990

  42. NJGator says:

    BTW – for all interested folks, this 1429SF of suburban condo paradise will also cost you $12k/year in taxes pluse $573/month in maintenance fees. Buy now!

  43. borat obama says:


  44. jamil van jones says:

    36 Shore:
    “And, for the record, I have no political ax to grind here with anyone. I do have policy differences …My loyalty is to the Constitution, and not to any given leader.”

    Shore, new career in comedy?

    btw, just heard that the new issue of Obamaweek has been delayed. (just kidding, it is available for drooling and for picking up pro-O stories to rant here)

    so you join me for advocating criminal prosecution and disbarment of any gov lawyer who wrote memos supporting deemed rule and other unconstitutional shenanigans? We can throw in the usual DOJ’s witch hunt lines like “lawyers failed to consider moral and policy aspects”.

    Oh I forgot. Different rules for libtards.

  45. veto that says:

    From the end of the Whitney article…

    “Much of the profit banks made last year was due to their performance in capital markets and this is “unreplicable” this year, Whitney also warned.”

    “I think that people that expect an earnings handoff to a normalized scenario are going to be disappointed,” she said.

    “Normal will not be what it has been over the last 20 years and there’s disappointment baked into that.”

  46. veto that says:

    Its ashame seeing Whitney so desperately washed up at this point in her career.

    I guess this new economy will seperate the solid analysts from the ones who stepped in sh!t and have been milking the dividends ever since.

    anyway, I always found her attractive.

  47. veto that says:

    “And will Obama repeat Bush’s mistake with Iraq, resulting in a huge spike in oil, coupled with a rush to safety in dollars and/or gold? If inflation will not start on its own, its has to be kindled: preferably by a Blu-117 bomb.”

    18 – Doom, now this is a stimulus i can get behind. If we are going to print our way out, we should at least get to see some pretty fireworks!

    Nothing can be more satisfying than watching that evil little psychopath, Ahmadinajahd’s palacial bunker explode into a 50 sq mile cloud of dust in real time on cnn.

  48. veto that says:

    “The USG then reconstitutes a new Bank of the US, and technically has never defaulted.”

    Shore, i like that idea.
    Lets do this.

  49. jamil van jones says:

    48: Bombing Iran would probably be only thing that would stop O’s total political collapse (at least outside DailyKos and njrereport), ie showing that he is not 100% marxist but rather some sort of bipartisan centrist.

    Bill Clinton started the war in the balkans on the same day some big news about Monica was coming out (ie last resort to distract people). Maybe O has finally realized that marxist goals can be achieved better if people don’t know you are absolute marxist.

    Nationalized HC vote (eh, I mean not actual vote, but deemed passed rule) coming up so good time to pretend being pro-american.

    Anyway, the article in the UK media is for PR purposes only. I’m all for open bidding process, but transporting military equipment for potential top-secret war is pretty good candidate for secret no-bid contract.

  50. Anon E. Moose says:

    227.Mr Hyde says:
    March 15, 2010 at 6:58 pm
    Why can’t we issue pensioners IOU notes, a la California?

    Isnt it technically illegal/unconstitutional for states to issue IOU’s????

    As the original Al Gore said repeatedly (under only slightly different circumstances), “There is no controlling legal authority that says this was in violation of law.”
    — Al Gore, seven times (in one form or another), White House news conference, March 3, 1997 (linky)*

    But I’ve quoted here before:

    “No State shall… coin Money; emit Bills of Credit; make any Thing buy gold and silver Coin a Tender in Payment of Debts;” U.S. Const., Art. I, Sec. 10.

    State IOU’s probably qualify as bills of credit. The SEC raised an eyebrow when Cali did it, but that was quickly swept under the rug.


    * A crack young deputy attorney general named Holder recommended against a special prosecutor to investigate Gore’s violation of campaign finance laws leading him to coined that infmamous non-denial. (linky)

  51. Yikes says:

    Final Doom says:
    March 15, 2010 at 9:02 pm

    chi (245)-

    Baseball is a degenerate, dying sport.

    agreed. they aren’t catering to the right people – youth. trip to the ballpark is too expensive, season is too darn long, and you can’t find any baseball highlights on youtube.

    don’t laugh at that – you see a great football/basketball play, soccer goal, whatever, that video goes viral, seen by millions.

    try finding a baseball highlight that is easily viewed online. good luck.

    i’d say the NBA has passed the MLB in terms of popularity in the 18-35 group. i dont have stats to back that up.

  52. veto that says:

    “The article for this thread is pure bullshit.”

    Doom, Are you saying its bs in NJ?
    How about states of az, calif and fl, etc? It would seem more applicable there. no?

  53. NJGator says:

    Top Administrators Waive Pay Raises

    Superintendent Frank Alvarez announced today that he and members of his senior staff will waive their contractual right to pay raises due this year. Salaries will also be frozen for other Central Office personnel who earn in excess of $75,000. The decision is directly related to a school budget crisis that now appears far more severe in light of expected deep cuts in New Jersey state aid to our schools.

    “This salary freeze is part of the senior leadership team’s commitment to avoiding substantial cuts to our teacher and staff workforce and to programs that are key to our educational mission,” said Dr. Alvarez, who also declined a pay raise last year to help balance the 2009-2010 school year budget.

    Dr. Alvarez noted that the district’s principals are currently in discussion regarding their own contract provisions in light of the budget crisis and that the MEA has been formally asked by the Board of Education to reopen contract negotiations to try to avoid extensive job cuts.

    “We hope to see movement in both of these areas,” Alvarez added. “Now is the time for everyone associated with the education of our children in Montclair to come together to avoid, or at least lessen, the potentially devastating effect of these budget cuts.”

  54. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [217][last thread] PGC

    “The very nature of the EPA goes against te very tenets of conservatism. A government entity that tells business how to operate from the small local garage to the multi national conglomerate flies in the face of small government and free enterprise. As does the FDA, HHS and even the forrestry service.”

    You make the point that regulation, as an a priori solution, is antithetical to conservatism (by which I think you mean lazziez faire capitalism, once called liberalism if you can believe it).

    It’s a good try but it didn’t answer my question. It’s as if you say that a person’s dislike of cops constantly monitoring his affairs means he advocates crime. It is a rhetorical fallacy.

    Put closer to your example, you take the position that a business, left to its own devices and with no legal consequences, will do anything it can to propagate and grow itself, even things that are hurtful to society at large. I’d say that this is hypothetically true, and certainly acts that are inimical to society’s interests are proof of that at some level.

    Still, you conflate conservative principles of less regulation and more market-based principles with a blanket endorsement of screw thy neighbor. You imply that conservatives are perfectly happy with polluted air and water so long as they make a buck off it (yet you bristle at my suggestion that liberals are only interested in redistributing the wealth of those that are hard-working, lucky, or both because of their own inability or unwillingness to earn it themselves). The world is not that simple.

    Traditional american principles are maximum personal freedom and maximum personal responsibility. These are not antithetical concepts but they do require a degree of discipline that our society seems to lack. Excessive regulation reduces both personal responsibility and personal freedom. And once you decide to kick the legs out of these prinicples, particularly responsibility, you start a race to the bottom.

    In the end, capitalism relies on a degree of societal inequality. Democracy is an equalizer, and a democratic society will always tend toward s0cialism and away from capitalism, particularly if there is an unequal distribution of resources.
    In fact, I theorize that, at its irreducible form, the democratic process has replaced the raiding and pillaging of the dark ages; instead of axes and swords, we have votes. Instead of warriors and mercenaries, we have legislators and regulators.

    It is because of this process that we have places like Switzerland, both then and now.

  55. jamil van jones says:

    29 Doom: “Jamil, all your pea-brained heroes had a long run at ruling the world. They fcuked it all up.”

    My heroes have not held power for long time, but assuming you mean GOP in general, can you point out how they fcuked up?
    In 1994 GOP took over the Congres and enabled alot of ethical rules and forced Clinton to balance the budget and pass Welfare reform. After that, I agree that GOP (and GWB) acted almost like democrats. GOP should have cut spending, but they didn’t. GWB’s prescription drup bill was too expensive and GOP should have reined in Fannie Mae.

    Yes, dems were opposing the policies, but unfortunately, they were pushing for even higher spending everywhere and more Fannie Mae and mortgage shenanigans.

    Best analogy is that you hav been occasionally speeding 60 mph in your neighborhood (limit 55mph) and you did nothing when you saw your cousin to speed 62 mph.
    Once you neighbor start speeding, every day, 100mph, are you not allowed to complain?

  56. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [51] moose

    Tsk, tsk, shame on you. Don’t you know that we are operating under Alinsky rules, and that no peccadillos by liberals count as violations of law?

    BTW, Clinton’s impeachment was for sex, not for lying under oath. Ask any liberal, they’ll set you straight.

  57. PGC says:

    I’m not exactly sure what that website you posted is about. I’m thinking z10nist shutin with time on their hands. The fact that those numbers posted up three days ago does not give me a warm an fuzzy feeling.

    Spouses, kids and grandkids which this wackjob list covers should be off limits.

    While i’m sure there are a few politicians that have said “Shore, if you have a problem, bypass the staffers and call me at home”, for the most part, callers are directed to the office numbers that go to staffers out of hours. Also what is the point of calling their home if they are more likely to be in DC. This on the other hand is just a nice little example of Intimidation and harassment via autodailer or fringe lunitics.

    Show me an offical list of home numbers for public viewing and you may have a point.

  58. jamil van jones says:

    55 Comrade:
    This is typical attack line from liberals.

    Interesting (but hardly surprsing result) from a study published in far-left british media:

    “Ethical consumers less likely to be kind and more likely to steal, study finds

    According to a study, when people feel they have been morally virtuous by saving the planet through their purchases of organic baby food, for example, it leads to the “licensing [of] selfish and morally questionable behaviour”, otherwise known as “moral balancing” or “compensatory ethics”.

    When Al Gore was caught running up huge energy bills at home at the same time as lecturing on the need to save electricity, it turns out that he was only reverting to “green” type.”

  59. veto that says:

    grim, these posts arent adjusting to daylight savings time.

    Fire the ceo immediately!

  60. sas says:

    poor Jamil.
    He sure gets a lashing.


  61. Jamal Van Jones says:


    Mom wants you out of the basement. She wants to do some laundry.

  62. confused in NJ says:

    The IRS can tell you what the Private Sector Pension average is by State. Get the NJ figure and apply it to the Public Sector. Problem solved. After all avoiding indentured servitude is also “for the children”.

  63. sas says:

    “CEO of Meredith Whitney Advisory Group”

    u serious?
    my shower curtain is more attractive.


  64. Painhrtz says:

    Jamil not sure if it has been said today but your an idiot.

    the Balkan conflict was started by clinton, not the Thousand years of hatred between muslims, Serbs, and Croats. go read a history book you noob.

    If anything the repubs you so seem to love gave Clinton $hit when he wanted to bomb some guy named Osama after the Kenya embassy bombings. Those revisionist morons like Gingrich skewer Clinton today for not doing enough but forget the whole wagging the dog crap they were screaming back then. Effectively neutered Clinton’s foreign policy with all that crap. We seem to forget we regulary bombed Iraq with cruise missles and terrorist camps throughout Africa. Now holier than though terrorist fighting patriots of the republican party want to bomb everything. Far cry from the pusses they were back in the late nineties because the president getting a blow j was more important. By the way i hate Clinton, and it really angers me to admit he was the last effective president we had.

    Learn to read something other than the crap spouted by the Heritage Foundation and Hannity you dimwit.

  65. veto that says:

    There will not be a wave of muni bankruptcy nothing. Told you guys before, moodys is re-aligning all municipal ratings to be comparable with corporate bonds in the next month or two.

    It will result in a three notch upgrade across the board for most ratings, although they are saying its not an ‘upgrade’, just a ‘recalibration’.

    this means that many nj municipalities will have some of the strongest ratings that they have ever enjoyed while at the same time many here are waiting for them to go bankrupt. lol.

  66. Nurburgringer says:

    Ever since buying a (somewhat tatty and pretty cheap) old Ferrari 308 last year have been frequenting the ferrarichat board for tips on keeping her running.
    Today for some stupid reason I checked out the “Business and Investments” section. What follows is depressing, but not exactly surprising:

    One guy (from South beach FL, who in another thread asked about turbo upgrades for his F40) posted this question:

    “How does one get bank to modify mortgage ?
    Like everybody else I have a house I’m upside down in
    I’m getting pretty tired of it
    How do I get the bank to modify the mortgage for me to reflect todays value ?
    Thanks ”

    and got this response:

    William H ~ I pasted this from my thread about my buudy who has Wells Fargo foreclosing on him and hopefuly this will help you.

    Thanks to the assistance from an established member here who is fairly savvy in regard to situations like this, I was able to bring Indy Mac to the table about 8 months ago. After a few calls telling them that I was ‘going to’ be in trouble in a couple of months due to a substantial pay cut, their standing answer was “Sorry, but your mortgage payments are current, so there is nothing we can do for you”. Okie-Dokie! I stopped making my house payment. On about day 65, they called me and ASKED me if I would entertain filling out the paperwork for a loan Mod. My reply was ‘WHY THE HELL DO YOU THINK I STOPPED MAKING PAYMENTS’! DUuuuuuh!

    To make a long story short, they:

    1) They took initial over the phone numbers from me and set me up on an interim payment of around $900 that I had to make while the mod was going through.

    2) Came back about 60 days later with the following plan for the $462K I owed and had a $2850 payment against:

    Per the picture of my current mortgage statement, you can see that:

    *They took $86.2K out of my principal loan balance.
    *They rolled the $86.2K as a final payment and adjusted the lifetime APR to 3.0%
    *Adjusted my new payment to $1405 per month (HALF of my original payment!)
    *Popped a 60 day late on my credit report

    3) 8 months ago, my FICO took an immediate dump to 540

    4) As of last week, my FICO score was a few points over 700!

    All in all, the deal was a piece of cake. I brought them to the table by not making a couple of payments. Now with a payment that is in line with my reduced income (for the time being until my company can get me back to my old pay rate), I can make the payments. As for the hit on my credit score, that was worth it as: A) It climbed back up in no time and B) I did not need a high credit score for anything while it was down (i.e.: no need to apply for anything).

    All I can say is that for those in need of a modification, I’m hopeful it goes as easy as mine did

  67. veto that says:

    “my shower curtain is more attractive.”

    Sas, she is no femme nikita but you have high standards for a banking analyst.

  68. sas says:

    funny video

    “Video from Hoboken last night. Watch until 1:50 “Pete is floating under the bridge right now… Poor Pete, he’s just floating now.”

  69. #67 – Ever since buying a … old Ferrari 308 last year

    Ohh! Keeping it stock or having fun with it?

  70. sas says:

    “Sas, she is no femme nikita but you have high standards for a banking analyst”

    we need to hit the VIP room one night.


  71. jamil van jones says:

    65: Your arguments are solid. I wasn’t aware that the balkans (muslims?) ordered US airstrikes.
    Clinton had two opportunities to kill the guy named Osama. He refused to give the order. Yeah, he bombed a toy factory in Africa and an empty training camp (after warning AQ through Pakistan). Yeah, his strategy to combat AQ really worked. It is not like US faced annual terror attacks from AQ.

  72. Nurburgringer says:

    Stock but freshened drivetrain, new adjustable shocks, brakes/bushings/tires etc. She’s a driver – good fun on the road and track.

  73. joyce says:

    States already accept and circulate Federal Reserve Notes as legal tender

  74. Albert Packer says:

    “organic baby food”

    Organic babies wer our favorites in the Donner Party.

  75. veto that says:

    “Keeping it stock or having fun with it?”


    I read this imply a stock ferrari is no fun until you swap the catalytic converter to cherry bombs and strap a jet turbine to the hood.

    and then thats when i pictured Burt Reynolds and Dom DeLuise from cannonball run.

  76. Albert Packer says:


    Not even that video clip of Jamil belly dancing could convince me to eat him. He seems to sour.

  77. Libtard says:

    “Learn to read something other than the crap spouted by the Heritage Foundation and Hannity you dimwit.”

    I don’t think Jamil has learned how to read. Mainly he listens to Mr. Oxycodone and Glenn Beck for his misinformation and propaganda? I find it incredible that Miracle-Ear only advertises on Fox News Channel. I suppose they found their ideal audience. A bunch of old farts who obviously can’t hear, otherwise they’d change the channel.

  78. Painhrtz says:

    Jamil did you even read half of the post. Oh thats right I put the word republican in it so you put your fingers in your ears and ignored it. Arguing with you is like talking to a goat, the goat doesn’t understand and you eventually leave frustrated. i’m going back to ignoring you now. I’ll let Clot and Nom go back on to their regular beatings of you.

  79. #76 – fair enough :)

  80. Painhrtz says:

    Tosh i want to know how the hell you find engine parts for a vintage ferrari, isn’t all of that stuff custom machined?

  81. PGC says:

    #52 Yikes

    A trip to the ball park is the cheapest sport going especially if you have kids.

    You can get $5 seats mid week. Even the weekend games the nosebleeds are . You can bring food and water into the stadium and will even give you a clear plastic bag if your food is in a shoprite/wawa bag.

    I had tickets for the Devils playoffs a few years back and the arena was half empty. What an atmosphere (not). Even the nosebleeds start at $35.

    On a similar note. I won two Knicks tickets for this Sunday but cant go. Where is the best place to get rid of them. Ticketstub, Craigslist or Whats really funny is that the face value of the tickets is $220 each. Who pays that?

  82. #81 – Not in the 308. Ferrari themselves maintain a very large parts inventory for their older vehicles. They also have a list of substitutable parts where applicable.
    Of course if you need new pistons or a crank, that’s going to cost you.
    I’ve never shopped it, but;

  83. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [79] pain,

    “regular beating”?

    I disagree with jamil’s approach and choice of arguments. But that is his style, and I try to stay out of the pissing matches. There are times when I am tempted to call BS on him, but there are more than enough here who do that.

    I don’t take issue with much of his underlying philosophy, though I would prefer to see more nuance.

    Clot’s approach is his own. I think there is a good deal of Venn diagram overlap between the three of us, but he may think differently and I don’t want to think for him or tell him how to respond.

    Besides, he might start thinking for me and that will get me arrested.

  84. Painhrtz says:

    Ugh especially love the part about Jefferson

    tosh cool guess I’ll go and pick up a 308, grow a bad mustache, and get a hawaiian shirt ; )

  85. Nurburgringer says:

    81: Ferrari made over 10,000 308s, so not only are there quite a few being parted out at any one time but some things are shared with other cars (e.g. the alternator is the same as some Fiats, $100 from a Fiat source or $400 from Ferrari, same part).
    Big ticket items (pistons, crank, heads etc) are around and nosebleed pricy, but luckily the V8 and 5-speed is quite robust and doesn’t often go wrong as long as it has oil and water.
    You also save a little bit of money by not needing, or wanting, a stereo.

  86. RUWaiting says:

    Question for the Realtor’s……if a commercial property lease is listed on MLS, does the property owner pay the entire Realtor’s fee?

  87. leftwing says:

    re: PGC 21

    “Showing some true class here.”

    You know you’re on the right track when libs get upset at your methodologies.

    Big government types rely on the complacency of the population to effect their schemes. The working class – taxpayers – must be kept in a perpetual state of trying to keep their heads above water so they don’t have time to protest, riot, or undertake other nonsense reserved for the professional lefties.

    It kills them, and their ability to control you, when you take up their methods against them.

    Tea party on and let your fingers do the walking.

    I won’t be satisfied until I see middle class managers in bad suits overturning cars in Montklair in a rage over public sector benefits.

  88. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [85] pain

    Country music in, hip hop out.

    How musical genres got into american history, I am still trying to figure out.

    Fact is, inclusion of the conservative figures is fitting, but excluding Nader and Perot? Nader was a joke politically, but Perot influenced heavily an election. Very relevant.

  89. Libtard says:


    Normally I would be offended by Texas’ school book move. Fortunately, schools and by extension, history class are no more than baby sitting services in this country. What is written in those books makes little difference when 95% of the population will most likely never read them.

  90. Painhrtz says:

    Nom no kidding, I bet they don’t even include Upton Sinclair’s the jungle as appropriate because it led to the evils of regulation. Makes me yearn for days of being forced to read about the Smoot Hawley Act. Now these morons probably get the Biggie/tupac dust up as turning points in American history.

    I would also argue that while Nader is a socialist nut, he had a profound influence on us getting the chimp in chief, instead of Internet Al. 1000 votes for Al instead of Nader in Florida next thing you know we are all driving priuses and the polar bears are fine.

  91. Al "The Thermostat" Gore says:


    This video is for you.

    Folks might want to keep their nompounds 500 ft above sea level. Maybe this is why the Bush family bought 100,000 acres in Paraguay.

    Keep it quiet. I dont want my property value to plummet at the shore.

  92. PGC says:

    #55 Nom

    There are subtlties in this discussion that would require a trip to Arthurs to give justice to.

    But the short answer is. I am not saying that person advocates crime, I’m saying that their amoral, apolitical neighbor has no checks not to commit crime.

    Without the likes of the EPA, GE can dump PCBs and your neighbor can dump motor oil down the storm drains. And yes unchecked capitalism is a spiral to the bottom because of greed, be it corporate greed or personal greed.

    Here is a funny one, you accuse me of painting conservatives with a big brush, yet you post this.

    “liberals are only interested in redistributing the wealth of those that are hard-working, lucky, or both because of their own inability or unwillingness to earn it themselves).”

    Last time I looked I was still very hard working and paying a boatload of tax. Redistribution of wealth is not a one way street and is not a liberal principal. In fact yesterday you quoted Grover Cleveland a classical liberal, who I think you would support more than I.

  93. Mr Hyde says:

    Nom, Pain

    Would the current state of affairs be so very different if AL had taken the presidency as opposed to shrub?

    I dont personally think our current situation would be significantly different. For all of a presidential candidates rhetoric, they are largely beholden to entrenched interests once they are in office. And both parties are ultimately headed in the same direction its just bread and circus differences on how they get there.

  94. Al "The Thermostat" Gore says:

    Someone ring JP Morgan and remind them to manipulate the gold price.

  95. onthebrink says:

    Ridgewood is slowly crawling back to normal. We still dont have electricity after 60 hours, but some areas of Ridgewood got power early AM today. Anyone else still waiting on PSE&G?

  96. Mr Hyde says:

    For those who think we are nearing a bottom take a look at the #’s in one of Dennigers posts today:
    That has Megaton Airburst written all over it.

    ….Gross debt-to-income ratios of 59.8% after modification?

  97. PGC says:

    88 leftwing

    I say families of politicos are off limits until they bring themselves to the fore. Posting the home phone numbers and the names of the kids and grandkids is crossing a line.

    You can disagree and call it lib bias.

  98. jamil van jones says:

    PGC 98:
    At least we all know that libtards will respect that. It is not that they hounded, for example, Palin family or ambushed conservative SC nominees 98-year old mothers or anything like that.

  99. Libtard says:

    “I say families of politicos are off limits until they bring themselves to the fore.”

    I bet their main campaign finance contributors have access to their home phones.

  100. Painhrtz says:

    Hyde -I don’t think that was really the point, lesser of two evils argument. The history book article really comes down to the dumbing of the american curricula because what is being taught is not in line with someones current thinking. History is always written by the victors so to speak, but minimizing the influence of probably the preeminent American thinker Jefferson (the rider being he was very derivative of Thomas Paine but the same could be said of Aristotle and Socrates) because he was a diest is just moronic.

  101. Shore Guy says:

    “Country music in, hip hop out.”

    I for one cannot wait to see hip hop blow away. On the other hand, I can do without country music as well.

  102. Mr Hyde says:



    How about we institute the EMP plan used at the of Escape From LA, ala Snake Pliskin.

  103. Shore Guy says:

    “Posting the home phone numbers ”

    Posting LISTED home numbers for elected officials — people who voluntarily ran for office — is not in any sense over the line. I know any number of such folks who keep their number, or at least A number, listed in the telephone book in order to allow access constituants who have an issue; this prevents a well-meaning staffer from preventing an issue from getting in the way of allowing the elected official to be responsive to the needs of the voters.

    In the case of Slaughter, she rules the Rules Committee and unless she hears from angry citizens, she is likely to believe that she is doing right by the country.

  104. Shore Guy says:

    “We still dont have electricity after 60 hours”

    Yes, but, you are SO CLOSE to Manhattan.

  105. Painhrtz says:

    I’m in a Jeffersonian mood today, so:

    It has been said the greatest volume of sheer brain power in one place occurred when Jefferson dined alone. — John Kennedy

    The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not. — Thomas Jefferson

    I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them. — Thomas Jefferson

    My reading of history convinces me that most bad government results from too much government. — Thomas Jefferson

    To compel a man to subsidize with his taxes the propagation of ideas which he disbelieves and abhors is sinful and tyrannical. — Thomas Jefferson

    When we get piled upon one another in large cities, as in Europe, we shall become as corrupt as Europe. — Thomas Jefferson

  106. Mr Hyde says:


    I was commenting on the broader debate, not specifically the Texas textbooks.

    Trying to rewrite history to fit current politics is a disservice to all. In the long run it only serves to further deaden our childrens capacity for critical thought.

    If you want your kids to have any real understanding of history you had best be teaching it to them yourselves.

  107. Mr Hyde says:


    Perhaps we need a Jeffersonian political party!!!! I would be all for that!

  108. Shore Guy says:

    Jefferson is one of the greats, and his high unimpressive voice helped his opponents underestimate him. Jefferson’s focus on agriculture, instead of the Hamiltonian industrial approach, was misguided, but his visceral understanding of how evil well-meaning politicians can become once they weild the levers of power — ala, John Adams — colored his view that dispersed power is best for the longterm survival of the several states.

    The emergence of quantum theory and, from it, quantum weapons, necessitated a degree of centralization that the Founders would have been hard pressed to have foreseen. That said, we ignore TR and Jefferson at our own peril.

  109. veto that says:

    Pain, isnt that the tea party??

    They want small govt and all the rest.
    seems to fit. dont know for sure though.

  110. Shore Guy says:

    “Trying to rewrite history to fit current politics is a disservice to all.”


    I am no fan of JFK; however, he handled the Cuban Missile Crisis in a masterful way. Would we have even gotten to missiles in Cuba had Nixon been president? I don’t know but, I am pretty shure that had Nixon been in charge when the missiles were detected, Lemay would have gotten permission to launch a first strike on Cuba and, even if the Soviets fired no missiles from Rodinia, a half-dozen or more US cities would have been turned into cinders.

    Sometimes the other side does something right. And sometimes what they did was wrong but still should be recognized.

  111. Mr Hyde says:


    From what i have seen, the tea party is about as philosophically deep as a 2 yr olds wading pool.

    A true jeffersonian party would have a well structured philosophical core besides “government = bad”. It would also not be something whipped up and rebel-roused by the MSM and their mouth pieces.

  112. chicagofinance says:

    Yikes says:
    March 16, 2010 at 9:16 am
    trip to the ballpark is too expensive, season is too darn long, and you can’t find any baseball highlights on youtube.

    yikes: the most expensive sport event is hands down NBA; I even remember going to Nix-Hawks in 1996 with my girlfriend (now wife). We bought the tix at face through a guy at GS and I was thinking f- this! For some POS game in the middle of the season where the teams piss around for 40 minutes before they amp it up at the end…forget it…..

    I have gone to a fair amount of Nix games since 1996, but I will never ever pay for a ticket again. I am always astounded at the insulting numbers on the tix……

  113. Mr Hyde says:


    To take it one step further. To act without a basic understanding of history is to act upon false pretense. Ignoring history because it is inconvenient or distasteful is no different then ignoring a rotten tooth. It doesnt change reality and the pain will be much worse in the end for your ignorance.

  114. Shore Guy says:


    Bingo! Unfortunately, there are people on both the Left and the Right who would rather be wrong while pretending to have complete knowledge than to have complete knowledge at the price of having to face uncomfortable truths.

  115. Mr Hyde says:


    At this point i welcome Clot’s oblivion. Perhaps its the chlorine we need to clean out the cesspool that has become American politics.

    When the founding document of this nation, the Constitution becomes nothing more then an inconvenient piece of paper to be ignored unless politically beneficial,; its time reset the system.

  116. Shore Guy says:

    I was talking with Sen. Alan Simpson one day (the R BO just appointed to cochair his budget commission) and we got to talking about the role of moderates in the party and he said something that he attributed to someone else who I just cannot recall right now: “The only things in the middle of the road are yellow lines and dead skunks.”

    In a world where grey has been banished and everything has to be black or white, otherwise it is deamonized as being shifty — and where so many people believe themselves to be educated but lack 1) critical analysis and thinking skills and 2) a grasp of basic facts about important concepts and events — we are ever less equipped as a nation to respond to the challenges of the world.

  117. Painhrtz says:

    Hyde true statemetn very true

  118. I for one cannot wait to see hip hop blow away.

    Shore, it’s been around for over 25 years now. I doubt it’s going away anytime soon.

    Also, no love for De La Soul?

  119. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [108] Hyde

    We have one, and it is currently in power. But it has dumped any and all pretense of Jeffersonian ideals.

  120. Shore Guy says:

    I am continually amazed at the depth of political talent that this country possessed an the latter portion of the 18th century. The founders gave us an amazing tool with which to govern ourselves — and a few years earlier were willing to lay down their lives in order to take a principled political stand against Geo III. Now? Ptth. We have largely small-minded, unimpressive folks who are willing to run roughshod over the Constitution so they dont have to make a difficult political vote. It is fricken sad. Hey, vote it up, vote it dowm, or wimp out and don’t show up (maybe go fishing) but to do what Pelosi and Slaughter propose is vile.

  121. Shore Guy says:

    “I doubt it’s going away anytime soon.”

    Yea, like herpes, it is forever.

  122. Shore Guy says:

    “We have one, and it is currently in power.”

    The current Dems are more Jacksonian. Nothing like Jackson blended with FDR and late 20th century doo-gooder nanny-state liberalism to mess up a political party.

  123. Shore Guy says:

    As for me, I will take Lincoln, TR, and RR anyday.

  124. Mr Hyde says:

    SHore 121

    Nothing will change until the the SHTF. And then only if a critical mass of people can be awakened from their american idol coma.

    Throughout history it is a minority that initiates action. That action, however must at some point gain a critical mass of popular support or it promptly burns itself out.

    My fear is that given the current state of the American public, can a critical mass be achieved when the minority initiates the process of change?

  125. Shore Guy says:

    W? Throw him to the dogs.

  126. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [93] pgc

    “Here is a funny one, you accuse me of painting conservatives with a big brush, yet you post this.”

    That was the point of saying it. I told you that you would disagree with it.

    I gotta stop posting for today:
    The Poster Boy for DSM IV is trying to throw me under the bus for something we did in 2008, and it is getting dusted up only because co-counsel asked us if we had a copy of an old document. Not the first time he manufactured an issue where none existed and then tried to blame it on me.

    I sooo have to get out of here and away from this wingnut.

  127. Nicholas says:

    Where are these quantum weapons that you speak of? Are you harboring quantum terrorists?

  128. Mr Hyde says:


    Jeffersonian party.

    perhaps in theory but not even close in practice. i dont think any current political party could accurately claim to follow the general principles of any of the founding fathers.

  129. Shore Guy says:

    Yes we do have the document, I hand delivered it to you and watched you file it. Don’t you remember?

  130. Mr Hyde says:

    Nicholas 128


    Would throwing a cell phone at you count? Its communications are based on quantum principles….

  131. Shore Guy says:

    “Where are these quantum weapons that you speak of?”

    You jest, right?

  132. John says:

    Sallie Mae could look radically different by the end of this year, we believe, based on comments
    the company made at Citi’s Financial Services Conference. In a major strategic
    shift, the management team is giving serious consideration to converting Sallie Mae into a bank holding company. Management is also “evaluating options”
    for the FFELP portfolio, such as selling off the company’s residual interests in
    the portfolio or spinning it off to shareholders.

    This should get CHIFI going!

  133. Mr Hyde says:


    You’ve never heard of quantum resonance weapons? you choose the right resonant frequency of your target then use a modified version of entanglement to lock onto said target. Pump energy into the local half of the entangled pair and sit back as the target absorbs the resonant energy and is promptly eliminated

  134. Mr Hyde says:


    Have you never calculated your own De Broglie Wave Length?

  135. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [130] shore

    It gets better. We should have that document, but only because of a transaction that occurred before I got here (and which Poster Boy worked on).

    I did no work for this client until 2008, when I was asked to do something that did not require me to even look at this doc; it was irrelevant.

    Yet I have the sneaking suspicion that Poster Boy will tell the other directors that I should have re-diligenced an issue that had been diligenced 2 years prior, and while I wasn’t asked to do that, it should have been obvious that the wheel needed reinventing.

    Fortunately, I save everything so my behind is technically covered, but it won’t matter. Another partner told me not to even try to cover my behind with this guy. As he put it “you won’t win that argument, even if you are right.”

    So the moral of the story is that the other partners will back their guy, even if he is dead wrong, and throw the associate under the bus because that is part of his job.

    I hate this place.

  136. #128 – Where are these quantum weapons that you speak of?

    Well, the thing about them is you can know either their location or their momentum, not both.

  137. Painhrtz says:

    Shore sadly as enfeebled as the politicians are, they have so coopted the system that only those well connected and rife with cash now get a chance. As unamerican as it may sound, special interests need to be removed from the equation and term limits emposed. The roles in Washington also need to go back to being a part time job, so the morons have to actually answer to their constituents. You think if they had to do honest work they would behave the way they do. make it like the army reserve, and jury duty. One weekend a month, 2 weeks a year. Your expenses are covered with no golden parachutes.

    You might actually get citizen politicians again.

    Shore I also agree with you give me TR, RR, somebody who was not afraid to lead without worry of the polls and public perception. Today’s morons to paraphrase Mel Brooks ” are only worried about their phony Baloney Jobs”


  138. Shore Guy says:


    Any partner who makes enought rain cn and will get away with just about anything.

  139. PGC says:

    #140 Shore

    Don’t see it on her webiste or HoR contact details.

    If you don’t think posting it or that website does not cross a line, we’ll have to agree to differ.

  140. Nicholas says:

    OMG you guys are hillarious.

    Quantum Weapons….sheesh.

    I’m packing an entangled source which when stimulated produces a twin-photon pair. When heralded through the Zeno gate it causes major avalanche disruptions in the core of the bi-refringent crystal causing an eruption of quantum material. In essence, your smoked.

  141. Shore Guy says:

    “Have you never calculated your own De Broglie Wave Length?”

    To quote Shakespeare In Love: “A goodly length in times past”

  142. Shore Guy says:

    “OMG you guys are hillarious.”


    Actually, when I refer to Quantum Weapons, I am speaking of our run-of-the-mill special weapons, aka, nukes. They are quantum weapons and for this reason the portion of a weapon depot or of a base where special weapons are stored is called a “Q area.”

  143. Anon E. Moose says:


    Sure, Federal Reserve Notes, issued by the Federal Reserve Bank, as empowered by the federal government; Not by a bank or under the authority of any of the 50 states.

  144. Am I the only one with a Zero Point Energy Field Manipulator?

  145. Nicholas says:

    I think that you mean atomic weapons then.

    Quantum generally refers to the minimum unit of any physical entity involved in an interaction according to Wikipedia. They usually reserve this word for particle physics.

    Atomic energy weapons are not quantum weapons.

  146. Mr Hyde says:


    I thought Zeno effect weapons were banned due the particularly inhuman effects of quantum interference of living tissue

  147. Shore Guy says:


    Look her up in the phone book. It is right there. She is willing to ride roughshod over the Republic, so she should not expect to do so without hearing from angry voters. I suspected that you or someone else would take exception to that and ask why I did not point to others’ numbers so I posted the link.

    If the people doing such dangerous things are not willing to take calls on their public telephone number they should not run or should have an unlisted number.

    Elected officials who take on national roles get to live under different rules than the rest of us.

  148. Shore Guy says:

    “Atomic energy weapons are not quantum weapons”

    See my post above. DOE, which builds our special weapons has always described them ad quantum weapons.

  149. Shore Guy says:


  150. Shore Guy says:

    “according to Wikipedia”

    You are NOT SERIOUSLY relying on Wikipedia, are you? I will instead rely upon my personal experience.

  151. Shore Guy says:

    One has to wonder whether the property in which this started was underwater. It was empty and I cant recall if this is one that has been empty for a long time or whether it was just closed for the season.

    NJC, do you know?

  152. Mr Hyde says:


    they still make those?????

    I thought anyone with access to that level of tech had already upgraded to a ‘brane’ generator. The astrophysical ‘brane’ fluctuations allow access to an order of magnitude mire energy then the old style quantum foam sourced devices. It also allows you to avoid some of the potentially unpleasant failure modes by dumping the entropy onto the other ‘brane’

  153. Nicholas says:

    Unfortunately quantum weapons wont be invented till 2360 by the Cardassians.

    There are places designated as “Q Area” but they in no way reference or store quantum weapons. They do refer to WMD storage areas and as of yet quantum weapons don’t exist so they cannot be classified as a WMD.

    Introduced in the late 2360s, the quantum torpedo was part of the range of projects which formed Starfleet’s response to the threats represented by the Borg and renewed activity by the Romulans. Although there is no theoretical upper limit on the size of a matter/antimatter torpedo warhead – the Cardassian ‘Dreadnought’ type heavy penetrator carries a two thousand kilogram m/am warhead for example – warheads beyond the 25 isoton range tend to be too large and heavy for use as truly effective anti-ship weapons. Starfleet wanted to develop a warhead which offered firepower in the 50+ isoton range without penalising the agility of the weapon.

  154. Nicholas says:

    Stony Brook Air Force Base.

    Q-Area for storing nuclear weapons.

  155. Shore Guy says:

    from the address

    ” say we must face up to our responsibility:

    • Cut government spending and end public union excesses that we can no longer afford;

    LIVE VIDEO: Governor Christie presents budget
    WATCH IT LIVE NOW: Gov Chris Christie presents budget
    DATAUNIVERSE: Property Taxes 2008

    • Reform government to cost less and operate better;

    • And restore some sense of balance to the obligations we take on — so that in the future they are both sensible and sustainable.

    In short, we can forge a new course. One that brings spending in line with revenues. One that attacks our problems directly so they are shrinking, not growing. And most importantly, one that lays the groundwork for a better tomorrow. Today, I ask you to join me in setting out on this new course.

    We did not dig the hole in which we find ourselves in a day or a year. The massive gap between our resources and our appetite has built up over twenty years. It has been dug by a lack of discipline and unwillingness to say no; made deeper by poor policy choices along the way and quick fixes to avoid tough decisions.

    And now that hole is a grand canyon. The distance between New Jersey’s projected revenues for next year and the state’s spending obligations under current law, if nothing is changed, is $10.7 billion. As a percentage of the prior fiscal year’s $29 billion budget, it is a massive deficit – the largest deficit of any state in America, and the largest in our own history — by far. No fiscal crisis we have had in New Jersey’s history compares to this one.

    Therefore, our solutions must set a historic new course – directly away from the failed tax and spend policies of the past.

    In recent years, we have allowed the problem to become bigger through a series of one-time gimmicks that have worsened our situation.

    * This year, for example, some state employees will be given an 11% salary increase, at a cost of $300 million to the taxpayers, while many New Jerseyans are lucky to even have a job.

  156. Nicholas says:

    Don’t like Wikipedia? Try Princeton.

    a discrete amount of something that is analogous to the quantities in quantum theory

    (physics) the smallest discrete quantity of some physical property that a system can possess (according to quantum theory)

  157. skep-tic says:

    no American leader will ever repudiate the constitution outright. even the arguably revolutionary movements in American politics today argue in favor of restoring the constitution to its original intent, not discarding it altogether.

    what is far more likely is a leader who argues that in order to restore the consitution, we need to temporarily grant him extreme powers. the groundwork for this has already been laid over the past 10 yrs.

    Based on the cult of personality surrounding him during the campaign and the economic turmoil when he took office, Mr. O could have been the man to take us down this route, but he no longer has a sufficient connection with the common man to have enough latitude to do this now.

    A populist along the lines of Caesar or Hit-ler will take us down this road eventually. He will convince the public to allow him to sideline congress and the courts arguing that they are ineffective and too cumbersome to deal with our present problems. Just like in Rome and in 1930s Germany, congress will continue to convene but will be totally stripped of power in practice. Then the leader will argue that he must be allowed to finish what he has started and will stay in power indefinitely.

  158. Shore Guy says:

    A few pages in

    “Some will say that we should tax our citizens more to keep up with spending growth. They have said it before. They have done it before. They will say it again today. Get ready, it will sound like this:

    “We need the money,” they will say. “These are good programs”; “it’s only fair”; “we’ll only tax business, it won’t hurt you one bit”; ‘let others pay more.”

    Understand one thing – the actions they will propose will raise taxes on businesses – large and small — and kill a job market already on life support. If you are unemployed and support tax increases, be ready to stay unemployed. If you are working and support the job killing taxes that some will advocate today, you may be next to lose your job. These are the facts they will not tell you.

    We have the worst unemployment in the region and the highest taxes in America, and that’s no coincidence. Is the way to fix that problem to make our taxes even higher? This has been their prescription for the last ten years and the job market in New Jersey is near death.

    You changed doctors in November for this very reason – now it is time to change medicine, too. Off the temporary high that comes from higher taxes and greater spending. Back to the hard, difficult medicine of fiscal discipline, lower spending and less debt – which in your heart you know will lead to the greater long term health of our state.

    If government is left unchecked, with no changes in current law, spending by the state of New Jersey is projected to be $38.4 billion in the coming fiscal year. This is outrageous. 20 years ago, when Governor Florio took office, spending was only $12 billion. If we did nothing, spending will have increased 322% in 20 years – over 16% a year, every year. That’s right, state government spending would have gone up at 4 times the rate of inflation over the last 20 years. Today, we say, stop.”


    “Ladies and gentlemen, I was not sent here to approve tax increases; I was sent here to veto them. And mark my words, if a tax increase is sent to my desk, I will veto it. It is time for the tax madness to end.

    The point is, we have tried that route. And it has failed.

    Previous administrations and legislatures have raised taxes 115 times in the last eight years alone.

    Raising taxes again on the people of New Jersey, the highest taxed citizens in the country, would be insane.

    In the past two years, with higher taxes, revenues have fallen, not risen.

    One reason is that some people who could leave New Jersey have left the state. A recent study documented this trend. It found that from 2004 to 2008, New Jersey experienced a net outflow of wealth of $70 billion.

    Ladies and gentlemen, if you tax them, they will leave.

    In the past two and one-half years, New Jersey’s unemployment rate has more than doubled – from 4.4% to 9.9% –. From below the national average to above the national average.

    There is a cost to all this taxing and spending. It is costing us jobs.

  159. #153 – I thought anyone with access to that level of tech had already upgraded to a ‘brane’ generator.

    Wow, I am soooo last gen.

  160. Shore Guy says:


    “$3 billion in savings results from recognizing that our pension system must be reformed before we can or should fund a broken, out of control system. The pension system has been so generous that it has created a flood of liabilities. From 2002 to 2008, pension payments to retirees grew 56%, triple the inflation rate. Our benefits are too rich, most public employees contribute too little, and the taxpayers have had enough — enough of out of control pensions to public sector unions while they are losing their own jobs, enough of losing their homes, and then being told by the union bosses that they must pick up the tab for rich pensions at the same time.”


    “But that is only the beginning. To fix our broken public union pension system, we must repeal the unwarranted 9% pension increase granted by republicans in 2001 but never paid for by either party. We must do it for current as well as future employees. We must make it among our most urgent work to be done.”

    “Closing a nearly $11 billion budget gap required us to look hard at the biggest category of spending in the budget – state aid to school districts.

    Last year’s state aid included over $1 billion in one shot federal stimulus money that will not return this year. This type of irresponsible use of stimulus money was a typical election year gimmick used to fool school districts and our citizens. Today, we pay the price for putting off the hard choices; school districts will have $819 million less than they had last year. These federal dollars are gone because the stewards of last year’s budget decided to spend every nickel in one year rather than spreading these resources over a number of years as the program intended.

    We have worked to ensure that no school district in New Jersey will face a reduction in aid that is greater than 5% of their school budget– so school districts will face a budget cut that is 4% less than the cut in state spending as a whole. During a crisis worsened by the election year foolishness of our predecessors, we keep school aid cuts at less than state spending cuts.

    And I am also proposing legislation to finally give school districts the power they have repeatedly asked for in collective bargaining and in setting employee benefits so that they can lower the costs of their budget without affecting learning in the classroom. ”


    “The leaders of the union who represent these teachers, however, have used their political muscle to set up two classes of citizens in New Jersey: those who enjoy rich public benefits and those who pay for them. That has created a system that cannot be sustained – a system fueled by mandatory dues of more than $700 a year taken out of every one of the nearly 200,000 teachers’ paychecks.

    Political muscle fueled by intimidation tactics, political bullying and smears of public officials who dare to disagree. This conduct has set up an unfair system. Is it fair to have any public employees getting 4-5% salary increases every year, even when inflation is zero %, paid for by citizens struggling to survive? It is fair to have New Jersey taxpayers foot the bill for 100% of the health insurance costs of teachers and their families from the day they are hired until the day they die? Is it fair that teachers have a better, richer health plan than even state workers and pay absolutely nothing for it?

    LIVE VIDEO: Governor Christie presents budget
    WATCH IT LIVE NOW: Gov Chris Christie presents budget
    DATAUNIVERSE: Property Taxes 2008

    I believe rank and file teachers know this is not fair and that we can no longer afford to burden our taxpayers with these costs and runaway taxes. The union bosses will tell you, as they always have each time their empire is threatened, that they are protecting our children. This tired song has grown old and inaccurate. Is the way our children learn affected by whether the union gets free family health insurance for life for its members? Does a child learn more if the union gets 5% taxpayer funded raises every year for its members? This is nonsensical and self-serving – and we all know it.

    Just how arrogant has the union gotten? By refusing to accept merit pay and use it to reward their best members, the union may have cost New Jersey $400 million in race to the top school aid from Washington. They did this in a year when they complain about budget cuts; in a year when we could truly use the money. Ask yourself, just who is putting their personal interests ahead of our children’s?
    My proposal is simple: school district employees should pay for a reasonable portion of their health care costs, just like every other New Jerseyan. If we do not end this dual system, state and local government will have to raise taxes endlessly to pay for it. Teachers are not the problem, they get it. Trenton special interests are the problem and we must stand up to them.”

  161. freedy says:

    i love chris. screw the teachers and the unions

  162. Shore Guy says:


    I know what “qunatum is” I studied nuclear engineering in college and have run a reactor.

  163. Mr Hyde says:

    Tosh 161

    Hey, at least you have access to superluminal communications with the old tech.

  164. Shore Guy says:

    later on:

    “With respect to municipal aid, I am recommending a reduction in various forms of municipal aid of $445 million, but it has been designed to minimize the effect on any one municipality. I am also ordering the department of community affairs to implement a new, disciplined, and significantly reduced program for the past recipients of special municipal aid and extraordinary aid.
    No longer will we reward cities and towns who irresponsibly spend. The gravy train of this type of aid is ending. Only those who show they are cutting their budgets just as we are, and practicing transparency with the aid, will make the grade for temporary help. The message is simple: we are ending this aid, and soon, so get your act together now.”


    “Their spending growth is out of control in large part for the same reasons that state spending has grown – employee costs, health care costs, retirement costs, and a failure to set priorities while establishing reasonable means of control.

    So today I am introducing in this budget a series of proposals that constitute a toolkit to protect taxpayers from property tax increases. At the same time, my plan will give local governments and school districts the tools to cut costs so they too can reduce taxes for New Jerseyans.

    At its heart is proposition 2 ½ — a constitutional amendment to cap the growth of property taxes at no more than 2 ½% per year.

    In 1980, the voters in Massachusetts adopted a similar proposition, and the results were striking. While in 1977 Massachusetts had the 3rd highest property tax burden, by 2005 it had dropped to 33rd place.

    Some will say this will affect the quality of children’s education. This is absolutely wrong. Massachusetts has accomplished this astonishing drop in property taxes while maintaining the #1 k-12 achievement in America.”

  165. Shore Guy says:

    And still more:

    “We must take the same direction. I urge the legislature to approve this constitutional amendment and send it to the voters this November. The voters have waited too long for relief. There is no good reason to take this decision out of voters’ hands. If it is right to vote for a constitutional amendment to fund pensions, as many in this chamber support, I contend we must allow voters to vote for controlling their own property taxes.

    But the state should not ask cities and towns to meet a standard that we ourselves are not willing to live up to. Accordingly, I am also proposing that this constitutional amendment cap the growth of state spending at 2 ½ percent per year.

    We must also have collective bargaining reform that respects these new caps. Arbitration must be preserved for public employees who cannot strike. But arbitrators cannot act in a vacuum. We must reform the system to allow for recognition of the spending caps and an award’s impact on property taxes. Fundamental fairness to both sides requires an arbitration system – but one that is fair to all parties.

    We must also have civil service reform. The heart of our proposal is that local government at every level should have the option of opting out of civil service. That tool alone will save an untold amount of taxpayer dollars and make management of our towns better and more professional.”


    “In Maryland, they are borrowing to cover current obligations. And in doing so, they are piling one problem on top of another, reducing the creditworthiness of their state, and creating a crisis that will be larger in the future. Hey, we’ve done that already, too. Today we live with the choking debt service that this failed policy has wrought.

    By taking direct, tough action, difficult as it may be, we can turn our crisis into an opportunity. In a competitive national and global economy, we can build a lead on those states. 37 of the 49 other states are electing governors this year. You know nothing tough is going to happen this year in those states.

    But if we make the tough decisions now, we will be one year ahead of 80% of the states in the race to economic growth. If we fail to act, we will fall even further behind.”


    “Today, we are first in tax burden. We are first in the number of college students who, once educated, leave our state. We are near the top in debt, and number one in getting the least back from Washington for every dollar we pay in taxes.
    All this must change.”

  166. Mr Hyde says:


    once you upgrade let me know. I’ll show youwhat you can do with a little negative mass. it’ll blow your mind.

  167. Shore Guy says:

    The gov may want to hire a private company to provide his drivers. Egads, is he going to stir up a hornet’s nest.

  168. Mr Hyde says:


    Has DARPA had any luck with helium-3 reactors yet?

  169. Mr Hyde says:

    /Geek Hyde off

  170. Shore Guy says:


    I don’t know, it is outside my bailiwick. On a related note, though, I recently heard someone from DoE touting the possible advantages of liquid-metal-cooled reactors and all I could think of was the accident with the breeder reactor outside Det, which I seem to recall was liquid sodium cooled.

    In retrospect, the loss of Det happened anyway.

  171. skep-tic says:

    Christie: so hot right now.

  172. freedy says:

    the taxpayers have had enough.

  173. Shore Guy says:


    Isn’t that what kinda what John Edward’s mistress said to him when she met him the first time?

  174. Shore Guy says:


    Back to the salt mine for this tax-paying unit, BO needs the money.

  175. Mr Hyde says:

    there are some interesting proposal for liquid thorium breeders. Just situate them on the old nevada test ranges and build them to be passively cooled with a negative thermal stability coefficent

  176. sas says:

    army trades in bayonets for ab blasters?


    looks like taken a sh*t is more important than close quarter combat.


  177. Final Doom says:

    jamil (56)-

    Your post proves that you are tedious, humorless, pea-brained (like your heroes) and brainwashed. I cannot summon the energy to respond; the thought of doing so almost gives me a headache. In short, you are beyond reason or help.

    Back to ignoring you.

  178. veto that says:

    “We need to pay each public worker no more than $5 per hour.
    no over time.
    no benefits.
    no vacation.
    no sick days.
    no raises”

    Crowd of 5 Million NJ residents:
    yeaa!!!!! go christie!!!!!


  179. veto that says:

    I’ll know christie is not an oversized bag of wind when we consolidate down to 300 municipalities.

  180. veto that says:

    the ‘reform of civil service’ is the only thing he said that scares me – in that entire rant whose length rivals moby dick.

    The only thing scarier than union employees running crucial parts of nj operations are boss tweed’s unexperienced, political hack loyalists doing it.

  181. Final Doom says:

    plume (136)-

    If the going gets bad enough, my suggestion would be to take out as many as you can before the cops box you in. :)

  182. Final Doom says:

    …and make sure you do that partner with a head shot.

    No open casket for a-holes.

  183. Painhrtz says:

    Run fat boy run, the teachers mob is going to cannibalize you. Wow I hope Governor slim fast has a good security detail, kudos to the lip service wake me up when something really happens.

  184. All "H-Train" Hype says:

    Suprise! The feds keep the interest rate at 0%.

    Will everyone still be here in 2020 when the interest rate is still at 0%?

    I still leaning towards the world perfectly envisioned by Clot.

    Time for me to sit back and watch the NJEA vs. Da Gobbener war that just started today.

  185. veto that says:

    Al, im surprised one of those comets still haven’t knocked your internet connection out.

  186. Final Doom says:

    hype (186)-

    This Fatboy vs overpaid drones thing is getting really entertaining.

    If this were France, the gubmint union/NJEA types would already be striking and rioting.

    I fervently hope that this is what we get. Let the drones soften up the gubmint for us, and then it will collapse of its own weight.

  187. Final Doom says:

    The Special One and his boys are upon the hour at which they will destroy Chelsea.

  188. PGC says:

    “To fix our broken public union pension system, we must repeal the unwarranted 9% pension increase granted by republicans in 2001 but never paid for by either party.”

    Great speech and I see more and more parallels with O. Unless he can get this through the courts, he’ll end up doing more damage.

    ““Ladies and gentlemen, I was not sent here to approve tax increases; I was sent here to veto them. And mark my words, if a tax increase is sent to my desk, I will veto it. It is time for the tax madness to end.”
    Just stopped short of “Read My lips”

  189. All "H-Train" Hype says:

    The 3 pm PPT boost is right on time…..

  190. veto that says:

    This was hands down my favorite part of the speech.

    “Ladies and gentlemen we cannot stop cutting expenses until the children of teachers all across the state are eating alpo.”

  191. PGC says:

    #189 Clot

    Have to take Chelsea, better for me in the long run if they stay in.

    1-0 Chelsea and through on away goals.

  192. Barbara says:

    Great cover of a song with wise lyrics.,38869/

  193. Barbara says:

    Chris Christie may save the GOP

  194. confused in NJ says:

    Well at least Christie is more entertaining then Corslime. Win or Lose, it’s something to cheer about. I just wish “O”‘s Taxation of Cadillac Health Plans included the Public Sector where they all are. Maybe the Teachers would budge on paying towards their benefits if “O” penalized them sufficiently for not. A Fair Tax would be any Public Worker (Including Congress) with a Cadillac Plan must pay a Luxury Tax of $100K per year, per person covered. That would probably do it, level the playing field. He could then use the proceeds to give Free Health coverage to anyone in the world that is not a US Citizen, including the 12M currently here illegally. Although Illegal is a bad term in that the Law actually protects them. Truely a case of Justice Being Blind?

  195. Yikes says:

    Michael Lewis is doing the rounds. currently on NPR:

    “Wall Street had become a giant ponzi scheme.” I think we’ve heard that from a board member or two in the last few years.

    He even mentions fear of riots! (about 25 minutes in, but only briefly)

  196. Painhrtz says:

    Confused the correct term for illegal alien is citizenship challenged get it right, OK.

  197. NJGator says:

    Barbara 195 – But probably only if your property taxes go down. If all he does is slash and burn at the state level and does not change the current cost structure at the municipal level, all he has done is shifted the tax burden a la Christie Whitman. Reducing state aid and capping municipal tax increases does nothing to make running local government in it’s current form less expensive.

    We either need lower cost municipal employees or a lot less of them before there is any meaningful change to tax burden in this state.

  198. NJGator says:

    I can’t wait to see the circuses at the municipal budget meetings if/when these towns start talking cuts.

    There is a constiutency for every wasted dollar in our town. Propose to cut anything and 5 people will speak in public session against it. “You can’t close the 2nd library branch, 6 old people play bridge there the second Tuesday of each month”. “You can’t raise pool fees. The $150 for the summer is already a stretch for lower income folks”, “You can’t take World Language out of Kindergarten. You will ruin our children’s education”. The same 5 people will stand up again later and say you have to cut the budget because they are being taxed out of town.

    Most idiots in this state are perfectly happy with the level of government that they have. They just don’t want to pay for it.

  199. PGC says:

    #199 NJGator
    You got it.

    “We must also have civil service reform. The heart of our proposal is that local government at every level should have the option of opting out of civil service. That tool alone will save an untold amount of taxpayer dollars and make management of our towns better and more professional.””

    In otherwords, let the towns opt out of civil service and run their own pension schemes. If you want to pay your chief $200K, go ahead and you can pick up the pension tab to go with it.

    I see a long term play here as with GM, the pension fund will be handed over to the unions with a boatload of cash for them to run it into the ground. They strip out muni workers into private contracts and bond a fixed ammount to cover current obligations. Unfortunatly they don’t have NJ stock to sweeten the deal.

  200. SirRentsalot says:

    “Run fat boy run, the teachers mob is going to cannibalize you. ”

    That could take awhile.

  201. veto that says:

    i can almost guarantee that chrstie wont cut one employee from the statehouse cafeteria.

  202. SirRentsalot says:

    136 nom

    I feel ill.

  203. John says:

    It is a bull market baby!!!!!!!! Heard from a lady today who chickened out in March of 2009 and still on sideline, lady is like 50, BOOOYAAAAA, Stupid is as stupid does, ride it to the bottom and jump off.

  204. Shore Guy says:

    “Most idiots in this state are perfectly happy with the level of government that they have. They just don’t want to pay for it”


    About a year ago, someone here posted a story — I believe written by an econ professor — about some guys in a bar and the lower-paid ones getting beer for free while the higher-paid one keeps getting stuck with the bill (as it was only fair) and eventually he leaves the bar and doesn’t come back, leaving the others without anyone to pay for their drinks.

    With respect to budget cuts, we are beyond the time of it being enough to cut waste. We now need to cut worthy programs and some people are going to lose out. Be that as it may, for, if we do not cut NOW, everyone will be far worse off in a year or two.

  205. Shore Guy says:

    I suspect the civil service reform will take the form of, if a town’s employees are unionized, the town will be able to withdraw from civil service, that way employee rights are guaranteed by either a contract or Civsvc but not both.

  206. Barbara says:

    all true and I’m old enough to remember the Florio/Christie days. The difference is the severity of the situaion now vs then. This time around, even if he does pass the bill locally, he can make MUCH political hay over “voter’s responsibility” to rein in local govt. This time around, seems like people are willing to listen. If not,I may be out of here.

  207. House Whine says:

    203- Thanks for making me laugh!

  208. Final Doom says:

    Destroy all gubmint and burn the mf’er to the ground. Burn, baby, burn!

    Only way to make it right is to hit the universal reset button.

    Lots of things will work better once we lop off 30mm or so of US population.

  209. Final Doom says:

    Barb (208)-

    Sooner or later, we will have to vote with bullets.

    The addicts are out of control and running roughshod. Only problem is, their numbers have reached critical mass and they can’t be rehabbed.

  210. Painhrtz says:

    Clot have i told you your starting to sound like Booyah Bob, I miss 2007

  211. Mr Hyde says:


    10% ? thats all of a population cut your looking for? I’m disappointed.

  212. Final Doom says:

    If only televisions could kill people quickly, rather than slowly…

  213. Final Doom says:

    Hyde, you know any way to make TVs emit fatal doses of gamma radiation?

  214. Shore Guy says:

    ” I’m old enough to remember the Florio/Christie day”

    I remember the Cahill days. I guess that places me firmly in geezerdom.

  215. Final Doom says:

    pain (212)-

    I miss booyah a lot.

    I always imagine him picking up a shiny new toy somewhere along a US coastline.

  216. Final Doom says:

    hyde (213)-

    Thing is, we have to whack the RIGHT 30mm.

  217. A.West says:

    Christie’s slap in the face of civil “servants” is going to get their attention. I wonder if the taxpayers of NJ understand that this is their last chance, and will have to forego all the faux goodies from govt like artificial turf fields, mega retirements, and universal medicaid. Anyway, looks like the gov gets it.

  218. Final Doom says:

    Then again, I also imagine booyah putting a dog-collared Listen onto a chain-and-spike in his backyard.

  219. Mr Hyde says:

    A west

    Its going to get way uglier then that. All thr little fiefdoms are going to fight tooth and nail to save themselves. be ready to see games like basic services being under funded or defunded to save local politico’s pet projects.

    If NJ roads suck now, what are they going to look like 2 or 3 years from now?

    I am all for cutting to the bone, but i dont think people really grasp the pain that goes with cleaning up our state finances.

  220. Barbara says:

    then you are old enough to know that local govt in NJ is family business. We have little monarchies in NJ. Every little mainstreet with the big Victorians rehabed into lawyers offices, the local funeral pallor….the names on the boards, the housing inspectors, the zoning and planning, can all be put in a family tree with about 4 branches max.
    Not something that gets talked about much by the broader public when the subject of NJ politics comes up.

  221. Mr Hyde says:


    Cant help with Gamma, but the older cathode ray tubes were good for a good amount of Xrays if tweaked properly.

  222. Barbara says:

    ok, more like 6 branches. There are a lot of inlaws involved too

  223. NJGator says:

    Shore 206 – Totally agree. And each town will need strong leadership that will be willing to make the difficult decisions.

    Past experience tells me not to be very hopeful on that account.

  224. Shore Guy says:

    A diversion from doom (this from an ASCAP newsletter):

    ” Calling itself an “all you can eat, on demand, whenever you want it” music service, MOG gives its users access to “just about every artist, album and song ever made” for $5 a month – certainly not a deal to scoff at”

  225. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [204] sir

    So do I. I just spent 4 hours (that I WILL bill) on a memo that has names, dates, places, etc. The level of detail is astonishing (gleaned from all my saved emails and time sheets).

    I have no idea what this guy wants (or why, which is really worrisome), but I can be assured that he will mark it up and tell me that it is “incomprehensible.”

    Ya know, I graduated 7th in my class, was an editor for one of the l.s. journals, clerked for two US courts, worked at two Amlaw 200 firms, and this walking, talking pysch case study is the ONLY person in 13 years to criticize my legal writing.

    I think I need that hurricane now.

  226. Al "The Thermostat" Gore says:


    “The only thing scarier than union employees running crucial parts of nj operations are boss tweed’s unexperienced, political hack loyalists doing it.”

    Hahahaha. You must be a government employee loser. God I love the smell of austerity in the morning. Cry for me you public employee useless f#cks.

    2 rules.

    1. Cant hack real life go teach
    2. Cant hack teaching go work for the government.

    GO CHRISTIE!!! Dump those useless eaters into the sea.

  227. Shore Guy says:

    “each town will need strong leadership”

    So, you are saying it is hopeless?

  228. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [218] doom

    “Thing is, we have to whack the RIGHT 30mm.”

    Airbursts over South Central LA, Miami, North Philadelphia, Detroit, Cleveland, Bowling Green, and every large city in New Jersey ought to do it.

  229. A.West says:

    Hyde, I already predicted that. Local govt will pay selves first, and cut all actual services to meet budget. This will last until voters discover they can hire (elect) a new group of employees who are actually motivated to provide same services at a lower cost. I think CC actually sees that this is the end game

  230. hughesrep says:


    BG? What about Myles Pizza!

  231. Barbara says:



  232. Barbara says:

    doh, 231 – agree

  233. Juice Box says:

    Al local politico I know told me last week that the towns have been resiting shared services tooth and nail. We are about three years into the voluntary program. The towns won’t even share a snow blower because it is someones job is to push it and they won’t share any equipment never mind resources.

    My back of the napkin calculations show state revenues are down perhaps 25% and the Federal Stimulus money is drying up.I would expect that once the local tax hikes hit to make up for the shortfalls in state Aid and Federal Stimuls some towns may try for perhaps a 30% rise in municipal taxes. Municipal taxes cannot really rise more than 4% without State CAPS approval. We could be spared massive Municipal tax increases if Christie usses CAPS approval at the State Level to force budget cuts and layoffs in the towns.

  234. NJGator says:

    Shore 229 – Yes. I am thinking we will need to get out of Dodge. At least we will have the snazzy bike lanes to do it.

  235. Shore Guy says:

    When we have 200 or so municipalities in NJ and fewer school districts, we will be on the road to fiscal sanity.

  236. A.West says:

    Local school will probably put my 8 year old kid to work teaching the slower kids to save money. What vehicles work best with deep potholes and higher gas taxes?

  237. Shore Guy says:


    I bet those bikeenclosures can double as SRO housing.

  238. NJGator says:

    What do y’all think of this million dollar kicthen?

    MLS 2751479 134 Forest Ave LP $999,999. Annual taxes $22,836

  239. veto that says:

    You must be a government employee loser.


    100% wrong again. but keep trying to classify people into your neatly categorized boxes so you can have some sense of confidence about yourself.

    im pretty sure i’ve made it further up the corporate ladder than you could ever wish for. If i had to guess, based on the fact that you know nothing about anything, i would say you have had a long career doing collission apraisals for allstate? Is that it? Not a bad gig to pull in $55k per year, but now i know why you are so mad that teachers are taking home more than you.

    Each one of your post is another confirmation that you are a gullible, wingnut, idiot.

    Not only do you get your information from youtube, you actually believe Christie (or some other politician) is here to save you.

    Ha, keep going though. I truly love your posts. They are good for a deep belly laugh that i cant even get from snl anymore.

  240. Barbara says:

    and these welfare queens AKA governing families with tell you to your face that it is THEIR TOWN. They are as much as 6 generations of public sector, the ones in private sector are the grandkids given the corp job in exchange for various political favors. None of these people know how to work for a living. Its going to get ugly if it gets going at all.

  241. Barbara says:

    would make Peg Bundy proud.

  242. A.West says:

    Gator, kitchen looks great for a 60 year old millionaire with a beige fetish or blindness.

  243. Stu says:

    Gator, did they seriously stage the buffet to hide the 40 year old appliances?

  244. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [240] gator


  245. NJGator says:

    Nom 246 – Was it the kitchen or the tax bill that did that to you?

  246. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [238] West

    “What vehicles work best with deep potholes and higher gas taxes?”

    An economy car on a lease.

  247. Barbara says:

    well Gator’s RE post just blew any optimism for change I may have posted above. 1m, 22k takes and that kitchen. Its a psychosis, politics can’t help.

  248. jcer says:

    Let the fat man cut! Really how much gov’t do we need and now we can’t afford any. If he even comes close to succeeding I’d be shocked. The state needs to run like a business, they need to cut to the bone, maximize revenues and recover financially for everyones well being. We need a reset button, to get back on track. The voter needs to realize an appallingly low percentage of the money actually reaches the intended audience. How much inner city school funding winds up in the hands of corrupt politicians, where did the money from the SCC go, did developers unload undesirable land at a profit on the SCC, was it a vehicle to get paid perhaps? This is why funding inner city schools to the tune of 20k per student is a bad idea. The state cannot save Newark, Irvington, Camden, etc, those places need to save themselves through economic development but they are so hapless that even when people want to do business there, they cannot and are often shaken down by either corrupt politicians or liberal Democrat politicians who are looking in their pockets without truly understanding the business and the risk involved. Honestly if your city needs so much state aid and school funding, the state should take over because something is really wrong. Also in a failing district I’d prefer to give out vouchers, run special schools and let the rest of it go to H*ll because the state shouldn’t squander resources on those who don’t want to help themselves. It is unfair to the people trying to better themselves to waste resources on those bent on failure.

    As far as I’m concerned the government is ultimately responsible for a few things at the state level. First infrastructure(roads, telecom,public transit), promoting and supporting economic development(including manufacturing and farming)

  249. NJGator says:

    Barbara – Here’s the full tour.

    It’s on one of Glen Ridge’s most prestigios streets. Buy now.

  250. Al "The Thermostat" Gore says:


    Did I upset you? I may have hit too close to home for you.

    Real men work for themselves not a corporate ladder.

    Go cry to Mommy man child and leave the taxpayers alone because we sure as h#ll dont care.

  251. Barbara says:

    251. Gator
    handsome house with reno potential at 400-450. POS at 999,000. The brick work is crumbling, needs probably about 20k in pointing and replacement

  252. Stu says:

    I look forward to both the fireworks in the state assembly and in the town council meetings.

    Some of you might recall a very similar sounding speech Corzine made where his catch line was, “Hold me accountable.” He too made bold promises. Fortunately the electorate kept their end of the bargain and held Corzine accountable. I’m not holding my breath with fatman either. I stopped believing that politicos were in it for their constituents about the time Clinton figured out an alternative use for cigars.

    Nom, get that a-hole partner of yours off your back. Accidentally let him see your NRA membership papers.

  253. Barbara says:

    ok, so lets talk about other places to live with nice historic houses and near a good metro area. Out of the question for me: Anything in DC, Boston. Go!

  254. Mr Hyde says:

    If you think the cops, both local and state, are bad now about being primarily revenue generators as opposed to actual law enforcement, then watch out.

  255. Barbara says:

    we need a NJRElocationreport blog. Eastern PA doesn’t do it for me either.

  256. Juice Box says:

    re #251 – Did Lucy and Ricky live there?
    Two single beds in the Master BR?

  257. Mr Hyde says:

    Is there a deadpool on christie yet?

  258. Stu says:


    St. Paul, Minnesota.

  259. plg says:

    This is an incredibly dishonest budget.

    Christie failed to even address the 3 Billion he is not contributing to the pension fund, something for which he hammered Corzine. This only adds to NJ’s long term debt and it is a classic one-shot.

    He also fails to mention that the cuts to municipalities and schools will cause the largest property tax increase in NJ history.

    Finally, his proposal to amend the constitution to cap property tax increases at 2.5% has disaster written all over it. What if inflation skyrockets to 10 or 15%, which is entirely possible. You have now tied the hands of municipalities to react. In an inflationary environment of say 10% a property tax increase of 4% isn’t even a real increase. It would be disastrous.

  260. veto that says:

    “Real men work for themselves”

    al – collision appraisals?

  261. Outofstater says:

    #240 I’ve lived in base housing with better looking kitchens than that one.

  262. Juice Box says:

    re: #261 plg what would you recommend?

    State tax revenues are down. Care to elaborate how we find 11 Billion?

  263. Final Doom says:

    I think Christie has done (or, will end up doing) enough to provoke the leeches to violence.

    Gonna be a long, hot Summer. And I’m not gonna have to lift a finger.

    Let the vermin destroy their own ratholes.

  264. Mr Hyde says:


    Thats the brilliance of it. Fore the municipalities into banlruptcy/merger. Burn it to the ground.

    When does christie announce that he is changing NJ gun laws to “Shall Issue”?

  265. Stu says:


    Your arguments are hopeless. You are as blindly liberal as Jamil is conservative. There is little hope for either of you.

  266. veto that says:

    Al, do you have your own firm that researches the cosmos?


  267. Final Doom says:

    juice (264)-

    Start firing leeches, and stop when it looks like the budget is coming into balance.

    Amazing what happens when you separate the junkie from the smack.

    “Care to elaborate how we find 11 Billion?”

  268. Barbara says:

    too cold! Although I have heard its pretty there.

  269. veto that says:

    plg – yes good point on the 2.5% cap.

  270. Final Doom says:

    plg (261)-

    Fcuk you, you soci@list leech.

  271. Barbara says:

    “It would be disastrous.”

    exactly. lets do this.

  272. Stu says:


    Bring it on!

  273. Final Doom says:

    Put the gubmint leeches that we cut loose on road crews and in quarries, busting rocks. Hourly pay, no bennies, no pension, nothing. Perhaps a few of them that ever had a shred of ambition might look for a legitimate job in the private sector.

    Teach ’em what a day of work really feels like.

  274. Final Doom says:

    barb (273)-

    Second that. Bring on the disaster and the ultra-violence!

  275. Final Doom says:

    FIre every school janitor in NJ. Make kids who are truant and misbehave clean the schools.

  276. chicagofinance says:

    Mr Hyde says:
    March 16, 2010 at 4:09 pm
    Is there a deadpool on christie yet?

    ket: you beat me by 15 minutes….this guy is so dead….no way he lived to July 1st…..

    Q: how will he die?

  277. chicagofinance says:

    lived = lives

  278. Mr Hyde says:


    hell no, cap the property taxes and inflate away!!!! pput the taxes were they belong, consumption based.

  279. Shore Guy says:


    I hear that some of your fine dining establishments in the Peoples’ Republic of Montclair have instituted Obama Value meals. One orders whatever one wants and the next diner has to pay for it.

  280. Mr Hyde says:


    Argentina here we come!!!!

  281. Al "The Thermostat" Gore says:



    “Gonna be a long, hot Summer. And I’m not gonna have to lift a finger.
    Let the vermin destroy their own ratholes.”

    Bring the pain. Muhahahaha! Its gonna be great watching the useless eaters destroy themselves.

  282. Mr Hyde says:

    DO they make body armor in christies size?

  283. veto that says:

    hyde 280 – good point as well.

  284. New in NJ says:

    Doom 277 –

    You know that you’re advocating for putting Hyde out of work, right?

  285. Painhrtz says:

    Clot I miss booyah too, his insanity was what first attracted me to the site. That and grim’s charts. the discussion has always been interesting

  286. Mr Hyde says:


    Dont worry, I hear Obamacare and great UE benefits will cover me. On top of that i will just buy a home through FHA and never pay the mortgage. I would be good for at least 2 years

  287. jcer says:

    Hyde, I think that it would be hard to fatally wound CC because he is so fat, body armor issue SOLVED!

  288. Painhrtz says:

    Hyde – Yes they do it is called a humvee, must be hard to get happy meals through the bullet proof windows you can’t roll down

  289. Anon E. Moose says:


    Master BR has twin poster beds?!? What is this, Ozie & Harriet? Sump’inz not right…

  290. speedkillsu says:

    Prichard Alabama declared bankruptcy on October 28, 2009 over pension obligations. Since then pensioners have not been paid. Now a bankruptcy court has given the city two more months to figure out how to do so.
    Pensioners Have Received No Checks For Six Months….coming soon to a town near you

  291. sas says:

    “Argentina here we come!”

    yup. I’ve been saying that for sometime now.

    you want you riots in the streets? take away or freeze pension funds.

    Hell, you took away my promised pension fund after 20 years, you better look out.

    But, I don’t have anything. You get married 5 times and see where that gets you. not very far.


  292. sas says:

    I wish CC would just address this issue:
    when are we going to quit paying the unproductive and stop taxing the productive?


  293. sas says:

    after talking to my account over the weekend…I sure wish I didn’t throw down all that jack for my remodel kitchen with the concrete top.

    son of a gun.

  294. Shore Guy says:

    So, Town X has a huge pension debt and additional debt that it cannot pay, the same for Town Y. Let’s say that they go BK and decide to dissolve themselves and form a new political entity, the City of A. And they disclaim any obligation to pay any of the former towns’ debts.

    Is there anything to prevent this?

  295. Shore Guy says:

    Well we taxed the states’ citizens
    Till the productive ones moved away
    And we got mountains of debt
    That we can never hope to pay

    Well, every state is bankrupt
    Baby, that’s a fact
    But maybe if we jack up taxes
    We can claw our way back

    The rich have too much
    And don’t deserve our pitty
    Let’s turn the whole nation
    Into Atlantic City

  296. jamil van jones says:

    296 shore.
    Yes. Democratic party (and ruth gingsburg wing of gop)

  297. jamil van jones says:

    296 anyway, I like that. State should transfer all obligations to towns and let them go bk.

  298. skep-tic says:


    “ok, so lets talk about other places to live with nice historic houses and near a good metro area. Out of the question for me: Anything in DC, Boston. Go!”

    need to look south or west if you want places without horrendous economies. but that sort of eliminates the historic house part on the whole. there are some exceptions though like Savannah, GA or New Orleans. historic homes in those towns aren’t cheap though.

    for cheap historic homes there are lots of options in second tier northeastern cities and in the midwest, but finding a job is a problem and the quality of life will be poor in many respects.

  299. Barbara says:

    this is what I figured. The house I want in the town I want does not exist.

  300. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [275] clot

    “Put the gubmint leeches that we cut loose on road crews and in quarries, busting rocks. Hourly pay, no bennies, no pension, nothing. Perhaps a few of them that ever had a shred of ambition might look for a legitimate job in the private sector.

    Teach ‘em what a day of work really feels like.”

    In the ’70s/’80s, Gov. King in Mass. tried that. It was called Workfare and if you were able-bodied, you got an assignment for your welfare check.

    Needless to say, the state employee unions and the welfare kings and queens went nuts. Workfare never happened.

    Not long after than, we got a GOP governor, and the office stayed red for 16 years.

  301. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [296] shore

    If they go bankrupt, and go thru Title 11, then they don’t need to dissolve. The debts are extinguished.

    Once we see a few of these in NJ, the unions are going to sh1t their pants, and getting concessions will be a lot easier. Not that it will make service better, but then there is always mass firings for that.

  302. Shore Guy says:


    Not that it would hurt to slash the number of political entities.

  303. Essex says:

    Glad I am diversified.

  304. skep-tic says:

    Barb– just have to decide what your priorities are. People in the northeast have this belief that the rest of the country plain sucks but it is not so. When you think of all of the sacrifices most people make to live in the megalopolis it is kind of insane. Most places $200k buys you a pretty nice brand new house. You can afford it working a 40 hr week with a 15 minute commute. This is reality for much of the country. Yes, their pizza sucks, almost nobody went to a prestigious college and you may have to shop at the Piggly Wiggly. At the end of the day, I think most people around here just can’t imagine how people could be happier in such circumstances, but it is possible.

  305. Barbara says:

    306. skep

    everywhere else feels like nowhere. Its irrational, I know.

  306. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [304] shore

    Resort to a process like bankruptcy actually insures that lots of entities won’t want to merge. Or enter into joint agreements for that matter.

    But you could see authorities take over various services, and give themselves an independent tax base. That way, if the muni goes under the cops don’t get paid, but the sewers still work.

  307. skep-tic says:

    My strategy is to adopt bass fishing as a hobby that way no where becomes exactly right.

  308. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    Here is an example of liberal newspeak that I found hysterical.

    Read slowly to get the full flavor.

    “I’ve been taking a closer look at Obama’s tax-haven plan, and I would make a general observation.

    First, it is a classic “neo-liberal” regulation, and I don’t necessarily mean that in the derogatory sense we usually use that term on this blog. Rather, it tries to indirectly solve a problem by interfering in markets as little as possible. So, rather than telling U.S. corporations what to do and how to do it, and then use the power of the state to punish those who disobey, the Obama proposal attempts to create incentives for private actors to voluntarily comply.

    A few examples:

    Rather than prohibit deferral by U.S. corporations of repatriation/taxation on their foreign-source income, the Obama plan creates an incentive to repatriate income by not allowing companies to deduct expenses supporting their overseas investments from their U.S. tax returns until they repatriate income.

    Rather than require foreign financial institutions to share information with the U.S. government on U.S. corporations’ foreign banking accounts, or prohibit U.S. corporations from doing banking with foreign banks that don’t share information with the IRS, the Obama plan would require U.S. banks that service U.S. corporations that also utilize overseas banks that are not “qualified intermediaries” to withhold 20-30 percent of payments to these corporations until certain disclosures happen.”

    Nope, no punishment there.

  309. Fat B@stard says:

    I heard that because of the storm, the wind actually pushed Bergen County closer to Manhattan thereby pushing up prices and igniting bidding wars.

  310. njescapee says:

    307, Barbara, everyone knows this is nowhere, Neil Young’s 2nd album

  311. Shore Guy says:

    Cinnamon Girl!!!!!

  312. njescapee says:

    one of the best rock and roll songs ever!!

  313. njescapee says:

    one note guitar solo

  314. Shore Guy says:

    I wanna live
    Don’t wanna give
    All my money
    To my greedy town

    They tax me plenty
    But still want more
    They won’t be happy
    Until they make me poor
    Sell all my furniture
    And live on the floor

    I will shiver
    As I get cold
    I can’t buy heat
    Cause they took all my gold

  315. Shore Guy says:

    I am not a big fan of Neil but when he was ON, he was ON.

  316. Shore Guy says:


    You are a guitar player, right?

  317. Mr Hyde says:


    Tell me,do you see anything wrong with this picture?

    be afraid, be VERY afraid.

  318. safeashouses says:

    Any chance NJ can adopt this policy for public retirees? Live in NJ you get cost of inflation increases, move to Florida, AZ, wherever not NJ, you get zero increases.

    In the UK, retirees only get cost of living increases if they retire and stay with the European Union. Retire to Australia, and your benefits are paid at a fixed amount forever.

  319. Mr Hyde says:


    I REALLY hope one of the rounds actually fired when he pulled the trigger.

  320. safeashouses says:

    #319 Hyde,

    How can that guy see?

  321. Outofstater says:

    I watched the governor’s speech and I was impressed – he reminded me (a little) of Ronald Reagan. Now if he can only pull a PATCO like RR did.

  322. njescapee says:

    I like his acoustic stuff not a fan of crazy horse. We saw him twice in the last few yrs ago with CSN and was great. also caught him at the GSAC doing a grunge show. not my thing be he was ok.

  323. Shore Guy says:

    I will need to look at it later, the server returned a long error code to me.

  324. Shore Guy says:

    Grunge? Young? Tosh!

    The only time I much cared for STN was with Young.

    Tax your children well, was a great song.

  325. njescapee says:

    Shore, yeah been playing some acoustic, finger style stuff lately.

  326. Shore Guy says:

    CSN, even

  327. Shore Guy says:

    Nice. I have finally gotten reasonably proficient. I can do songs like Rosalita or Blinded by the Light now.

  328. njescapee says:

    nice, those are great songs

  329. Shore Guy says:

    It has become a nice form of meditation.

  330. Revelations says:

    Sorry if this has been addressed recently, but we’re more than half way through March, and the overnight 30 fixed average is still reported as 5.06% (per bankrate). If the fed is winding down its 10-yr purchases, wouldn’t we begin to see an immediate uptick in mtg rates? Is there much lag? I’m assuming they’re phasing out vs quitting cold turkey on Mar 31.

  331. njescapee says:

    It is a great way to reduce stress especially when you’re sounding good :-)

  332. Shore Guy says:

    My fingerpicking is still a work in progress and 9th and 11th chords are not well memorized but are coming.

  333. njescapee says:

    I always go back to the charts. never used an 11th to my knowledge.

  334. plg says:

    The bankers and Bush/Greenspan deregulation cause a worldwide economic collapse, thereby causing NJ’s tax revenue to plummet and unemployment to hit 10% and somehow this is all being blamed on teachers and state workers?

    The bankers are walking away with billions, Bush is walking away to his ranch and you idiots are blaming teachers for your problems. They really know how to divide the middle class all the while they steal the money. Fools!

  335. Shore Guy says:

    I tend to be overly critical of my own performance but, I am generally pleased with my sound. A few times practicing out in isolated public places I have ended up attracting a crowd, and they have been complimentary, so….

  336. njescapee says:

    Shore, just found this site after you mentioned 11th cords. looks pretty cool.

  337. Revelations says:

    I don’t think the anger toward state emps is in place of that towards bankers and politicians, it’s IN ADDITION to.
    My 2 pence for what its worth (not much)

  338. plg says:


    I do see how you can be made at both, but I have not seen nearly this level of vitriol and, frankly, pitchforks out for the bankers. It is getting to the point of schadenfreude. We are all suffering, so lets get the teachers.

    What have the bankers suffered for actually causing all of this mess? Nothing. Who is going to pay for it? Teachers and poor saps making 60K helping kids or the disabled in the Dept of children and families. This is upside down.

  339. njescapee says:

    337, Shore, It’s always nice to get that kind of recognition.

  340. Shore Guy says:

    The 7ths are good. The suspended 2nds and Dths generallyare too; they are a snap for the movable chords where just knowing which is the third makes finding the sus chords a snap.

  341. Shore Guy says:

    Dths = 4ths

  342. Shore Guy says:

    “What have the bankers suffered for actually causing all of this mess”

    Let’s give them a fair trial and then a fair hanging.

  343. Mr Hyde says:


    The bankers are better then then the proletariat and should be treated accordingly.

    They should be drawn and quartered.

  344. Final Doom says:

    shore (296)-

    I read this post and thought about two street gangs dissolving, then joining together as a new entity.

    Anybody gonna tell that new, improved supergang what to do?

    Novel idea!

  345. Revelations says:

    Shore, Kettle,
    What’s your take on interest rates? Wouldn’t we see them start to rise buy now if the Fed is backing out?

  346. Mr Hyde says:


    What follows is pure uneducated speculation on my part;

    I think that the governments and major banks interests have becomes aligned enough that working together they have effectively been able to temporarily delay/prevent rates from rising or the fabled Bond Vigilantes from striking.
    I think they may be able to continue this game for a while yet. Of course like the business cycle, the longer you delay it the harder it hits back. When interest rates do begin to rise it will probably be faster then bergabe and friends would like.
    Consider that at the moment the major central banks of the world are all playing essentially the same game and they are all playing the same game as the major banks, that is Delay & Pray

    This is pure speculation and a better person to ask would be BC bob next time he pops up. My area of expertise is limited to buffing floors and scrapping gum off of desks.

  347. willwork4beer says:


    I thought the phrase was “a fair trial and a better than average hanging”.

    344. Shore Guy says:
    March 16, 2010 at 7:38 pm

    “What have the bankers suffered for actually causing all of this mess”

    Let’s give them a fair trial and then a fair hanging.

  348. willwork4beer says:


    Even better.

    345. Mr Hyde says:
    March 16, 2010 at 7:43 pm


    The bankers are better then then the proletariat and should be treated accordingly.

    They should be drawn and quartered.

  349. Revelations says:

    Thanks for the thoughtful response. I’ve been anxiously awaiting the reaction of the mtg market once the fed bows out. Ironically, I bet this artificial clamp on rates has actually kept a lot of the strongest buyers out.. I don’t think any cash saturated buyers (assuming there are any) want to put much DP/cash into an asset whose price is negatively sensitive to a rate increase.

  350. Shore Guy says:

    “I thought the phrase was ‘a fair trial and a better than average hanging’.”

    It could be. My family usually just made people disappear.

  351. Final Doom says:

    We got 1,000 points of light, for the homeless man. We got a kinder, gentler machine gun hand.

  352. willwork4beer says:


    The problem with disapperances is the unnecessary loss of the circuses.

    Remember, I advocate raising funds through the use of pay per view death matches between politicians. Adding banksters for a second season would be a natural segue.

  353. Final Doom says:

    The bond vigilantes still seem to be underground. I think they are developing superpowers and pumping themselves full of toxic venom, in order to re-emerge as a new breed: the Fed vigilante.

    Yield must be paid, and we are pumping the federal balance sheet full of ether-and-formaldehyde-soaked crack (aka Maiden Lane, late-vintage Ginnie, Phony/Fraudy one ply)…YET SOMEHOW ALL THIS IS BEING DONE IN A ZIRP ENVIRONMENT, WITH A YIELD CURVE THAT IS NOT A CURVE, BUT A VERTICAL WALL.

    Something’s gotta give, and FedCo is going to lose.

  354. Yikes says:

    jamil van jones says:
    March 16, 2010 at 9:24 am

    29 Doom: “Jamil, all your pea-brained heroes had a long run at ruling the world. They fcuked it all up.”

    My heroes have not held power for long time, but assuming you mean GOP in general, can you point out how they fcuked up?
    In 1994 GOP took over the Congres and enabled alot of ethical rules and forced Clinton to balance the budget and pass Welfare reform.

    a Democrat president (Clinton), one of the finest presidents in the last 50 years, leaves office with the budget balanced and of course this clown tries to credit republicans.

    in the immortal words of some chick on seinfeld: “Jamil, you insignificant piece of dust!”

  355. Final Doom says:

    hyde (255)-

    For the man who has everything.

    That is absolutely sick. :)

  356. Mr Hyde says:

    Doom, Rev

    As unpopular as it may be i still feel that deflation is the current dominant force. We are seeing both inflationary and deflationary forces occurring at the same time. Deflation in the form of evaporating bad debts is still far beyond the amount of printing and monetization done to date.

    Once deflation slows, i suspect inflation will strike with a vengeance in a particularly nasty 1-2 punch. My guess is the transition could occur sometime around 2012.


    Just the 2 cents of a janitor.

  357. Sean says:

    pLG – not here to knock you down just provide some insight please, the budget deficit is massive perhaps as much as 11 billion, how would you expect to make it up if you were governor?

    Also, re: blame game, sure the bankers are bastards but those bastards were raised by the politicians. You anger should be directed at the current and former NJ politicians who got us into this mess, it wasn’t the taxpayer that passed and signed the legislation after all and the taxpayer is still paying the current bill right?

  358. Final Doom says:

    Chelski bites the dust. The Special One beats them on their own pitch.

    Ancelotti better post his resume at Monster.

  359. willwork4beer says:

    Mrs Beer and I are back home tonight as power was finally restored to Beer Manor at about 3 o’clock this morning. Very happy to be home.

    Interesting beer of the day: Yuengling’s take on the Bock Beer revival. Great stuff, inexpensive and has a cool, art deco inspired label. Complete with traditional goat.

  360. Mr Hyde says:


    The FED could act the ultimate Bad bank. Pack them full of the bad debts then promptly abolish them and have the treasury issue treasury notes. Technically the FED has defaulted, not the USA.

  361. Final Doom says:

    hyde (359)-

    I think when the debt destruction ends, we’ll all be walking around in a daze and foraging for nuts.

  362. Final Doom says:

    hyde (363)-

    This whole “bad bank” idea is going to get tried out at some point, and I think you’re onto something.

    A lot of us (esp. BC) jumped on the idea of “print and repudiate” early in the crisis, and I think Paulson’s most evil idea truly deserves to be employed in this fashion.

    If we’re really gonna destroy the Fed, why not pack it full of radioactive waste and detonate it all as a giant eff you to the rest of the planet?

    I think that tomorrow I will use a stopwatch and record how many hours I devote to dreaming up doomsday machines and Gottendamerung scenarios.

  363. Mr Hyde says:


    Sooner after we see a whipsaw change from net deflation to net inflation is when you see the wars start up. Its go to war or watch governments fall like dominoes.

    History tells us which one is chosen 99% of time.

  364. Final Doom says:

    hyde (366)-

    Well, it’s nice to see that we’re thinking ahead and have loaded warehouses in Diego Garcia with enough bunker busters to turn Iran into a parking lot.

  365. Mr Hyde says:


    A nice feature of turning the FED into a ban bank is that the government can then shift all the blame to the secretive FED that never opened its books and of course its a PRIVATE institution not a public one. The default will be the default of a nefarious private institution and the government will ride in to the save the day by having congress transfer the US currency to Treasury notes as opposed to those evil defaulted federal reserve notes.

    The government gets to default without defaulting AND they get a nicely wrapped scapegoat with a bow on top.

    I am sure there will be some back room deals with certain international partners to help them profit on the event and ensure we maintain certain finance and trade corridors open.

  366. Final Doom says:

    I say we let GS develop FedCo-specific CDS.

    Great fun for all.

  367. PGC says:

    #361 Clot

    You called Inter.

    If he loses the Utd game he is toast. If he wins the league, he could stay.

  368. PGC says:


    NPR put the “Slaughterhouse Rule (tm Tea Party Inc) into perspective.

    But despite Republican claims that such parliamentary gymnastics as reconciliation and self-executing rules are somehow in violation of House rules or rare, neither is the case, says congressional scholar Thomas Mann of the Brookings Institution.

    “On the self-executing rule, Republicans in their last Congress that they controlled, the 109th, used it 36 times; the Democrats, in the next Congress they controlled, used it 49 times,” Mann said.

    And in many cases, Mann says, they were on some pretty major bills. “The reauthorization of the Patriot Act, the Tax Relief Reconciliation Act, the Deficit Control Conference Report; all kinds of major measures have been approved through self-executing rules, which means the House votes indirectly rather than separately on these measures.”

  369. PGC says:

    Shore here is one you can have some true outrage. Its a bit like all those pork bills that get tacked on as amendments.

    The vote on a health care reform bill could turn into a two-for-one deal. Democrats are planning to tack onto the bill an Obama administration plan to reform the federal student loan program.

  370. veto that says:


    hyde, thank you for emphasizing this in caps. this should become standard disclosure on all posts over the next two years.

  371. PGC says:

    #320 Safe

    One of the factors why I chose the US over the likes of Austrailia is the Dual Taxation agreement. At retirement age I get the choice of Social Security or a UK pension. Both may be worthless at that point, but its still nice to have options.

  372. Nomad says:


    If you can leave the NEast, go. You can observe all the anger of the area in your rear view mirror. In my time in NJ, I have never seen more PO’s people in my life and that was when the economy was in good shape. I know many east coasters that got relocated elsewhere and thought they were getting sent to Siberia. A couple years later, they would not return under any circumstances. Guess Piggly Wiggly is better than Kings or Shop Rite. No rotten produce either.

  373. NJGator says:

    Some interesting video of what the Passaic looks like now in Paterson and Little Falls.

  374. Al "The Thermostat" Gore says:


    No one is calling for the public hanging of state employees but that is what is being asked of the bankers guilty of treason. Rightfully so.

  375. PGC says:

    I have to come to plgs’ defense here. He makes a few good points. CC dodges the 3 billion bill for the pension because he assumes he will win the court challenges.

    If Ket is right and Inflation roars in, handcuffing the munis goes against he view of a consumption tax he wants to see.

    At the end of the day, the big municipalies, JC, Newark Paterson, and the high revenue towns like Alpine will have high enough revenues to ride out the storm at 2.5% per year.

    Saying smaller municipalites should merge is all well and good. But is there any way to force Verona, Montclair and Glen Ridge together. Will East Rutherford with its high tax revenue, merge with Rutherford with its high debt?

  376. Outofstater says:

    Mayans, solar max, financial collapse 2.0, war…2012 is going to be one heck of a year. I’ll bring the popcorn, willwork can bring the beer and clot can bring the Knob Creek. We should be all set. Oh, and everybody bring your own lawn chairs, and some welders goggles for the nuclear explosions, maybe a little sunscreen too.

  377. Thank you for this very informative article of yours. You have explained everything well. I appreciate that you shared this to us.

  378. PGC says:


    You finally get your perfect candidate.

    I’m not sure if I like their slogan “The People Second” or if they should go with the Grover Cleavland “Though the people support the government, the government should not support the people”

  379. Barbara says:

    375. Nomad

    I have friends that have experienced exactly this.

  380. PGC says:

    #310 Nom

    I Love it ….. :*)

  381. plg says:

    Sean (#360) and Al (#377),

    My answer is pretty simple. Many of those bankers who drove the economy off a cliff live in NJ. Unfortunately, we cannot hang them, but we can tax them. We can get back some of the money they pilfered.

    If you make over 400K per year , or millions per year for that matter, there is a good chance you work in banking. Sure, not all people who make over 400K are banker, but many of them are. Even if they are not bankers, this horrible economy is obviously still working out well for them if they are making over 400K per year.

    Christie is repealing a tax on people making over 400K per year while he is cutting funding to colleges, children, the elderly and the middle class and poor. This makes no sense.

    Property taxes are the problem. They are too high. That tax falls on all NJ citizens, rich or poor. So Christie’s proposals to cut school and municipal aide will simply raise property taxes. He is doing this to protect people making over 400K and you and I are going to pay.

    Christie is very skilled at rhetoric that makes protecting the wealthy sound like he is protecting the middle class. When you look closer, all he is doing is crushing the middle class to protect the rich. Many of whom, like his brother, are bankers. Again the bankers are going to do great under Christie, but if you are poor and take the bus he just raised your taxes. You are paying 30% more for your bus pass. If you own a home, your property taxes are going up.

  382. njescapee says:

    PLG, so I guess it’s safe to say you earn less than $400k / yr. remember: don’t tax me, tax the guy behind the tree. :-)

  383. plg says:


    No, don’t tax “the guy behind the tree.” Tax the guy who can afford it without going hungry, can still get to work, will not be forced to make really hard choices. Its an important distinction.

    If you make 400K this economy is being good to you. This economy is destroying many people’s lives and instead of holding the right people accountable, we are looking to blame teachers. We want to start destroying some teachers, students, poor. Or we could force someone who makes over 400K to decide whether to get another benz.

  384. njescapee says:

    no mas, no mas!!

  385. NJGator says:

    PGC 378 – I guess if the towns are eventually starved off of state aid and simultaneously squeezed by the cap, you’ll quickly find out what the maximum tolerance is for tax increases is in each area.

    Given the status quo, I could never see Glen Ridge willingly merge with Montclair. Glen Ridge has ZERO debt and a top 5 school district. Montclair has over $200M in debt and a school system that barely cracks the state top 100 while spending $2k more per student.

    How high do taxes have to go to make that shotgun marriage look attractive? 25k? 30k?

  386. plg says:


    Do you have any evidence at all that consolidation saves a significant amount of money?

    I have read studies that show that it does not. If you look, I think it was Montreal, that did a massive consolidation.

    Intuitively it seems like consolidation would save money, but in practice, has this ever been shown to work?

  387. confused in NJ says:

    359.Mr Hyde says:
    March 16, 2010 at 8:20 pm
    Doom, Rev

    As unpopular as it may be i still feel that deflation is the current dominant force. We are seeing both inflationary and deflationary forces occurring at the same time. Deflation in the form of evaporating bad debts is still far beyond the amount of printing and monetization done to date.

    Once deflation slows, i suspect inflation will strike with a vengeance in a particularly nasty 1-2 punch. My guess is the transition could occur sometime around 2012.


    Just the 2 cents of a janitor.

    If the Mayans were in charge, most of the groups we talk about would be on an altar having their hearts removed.

  388. borat obama says:


  389. confused in NJ says:

    A large part of Omamas stimulous was to keep teachers employed in the States, along with giveaway to the Banksters. Very little was to keep Private sector people employed. So the Graet One only values Banksters & Teachers, therefore the problem has been clearly identified, as the Fish Stinks From The Head.

  390. Sean says:

    # 378 PGC re:”if Ket is right and Inflation roars in.”

    Don’t give them credit Ket and Xlot were worshiping at the idol of deflation since at least 2007 till their Idol Mish caved and now they are isolationists/inflationistats.

    I bet you two ammo boxes both are eating crow on that call.

    FYi been calling inflation for years, and it’s a can’t be wrong call just chart the dollar and don’t care don’t fight the fed it is a losers game.

  391. Shore Guy says:

    ” Complete with traditional goat”

    I don’t know that I want to know what this means but feel compelled to ask.

  392. Shore Guy says:

    “oaded warehouses in Diego Garcia with enough bunker busters to turn Iran into a parking lot”

    As much as I would like to see the schmucks running Iran removed from power (or Earth, whatever) we are somewhat constrained with respect to bombing Iran. Why? 90,000 troops in Iraq. Were we to go about bombing special weapons facilities and nuclear research sites in Iran, there would be little to constrain Iran from sending a few hunderd thousand troops and Revolutionary Guards across the border into Iraq. This would then covert a clean/surgical operation into something else, all at a time that we aer trying to extract our forces so we can beef-up Afghanistan.

    We will still have 50,000 troops in Iraq by Labor Day.

  393. LoveNJ says:

    ” If the Mayans were in charge, most of the groups we talk about would be on an altar having their hearts removed.”

    We will all join Mayans’ Union of NJ, fully employed and lazy, everyone will be safe, as we all be debting contract terms on healthcare, vocation, pension, retirement before remove anyone’s heart.

  394. chicagofinance says:

    skep: you write something very ostensibly rational……the problem is that it is just wrong.

    I was just discussing something similar earlier today. People from NYC and Texas have the identical arrogance about where they live…the only difference is that absolutely no one cares whether you are from Texas….

    306.skep-tic says:
    March 16, 2010 at 6:12 pm
    People in the northeast have this belief that the rest of the country plain sucks but it is not so.

    At the end of the day, I think most people around here just can’t imagine how people could be happier in such circumstances, but it is possible.

  395. NJGator says:

    Call to repeal Bergen ‘blue laws’ surprises local officials

    Bergen County Democrats and Republicans were caught off-guard Tuesday, when Governor Christie proposed raising $65 million in sales tax revenue by repealing the county’s longstanding ban on Sunday business.

    State Sen. Paul Sarlo, D-Wood-Ridge, chairman of the Senate Budget and Appropriations Committee, said he would oppose the plan and predicted political fallout for Republicans running for elected office this year.

    “It’s balancing the budget on the backs of the people of Bergen County,” Sarlo said. “It would strike at the heart of people’s quality of life and at residential property values.”

    The Sunday shopping prohibition is mandated by a state statute from which counties can opt out only via a referendum. Every county has done so, except Bergen. Several legal challenges to the ban have been rejected by the courts, and Bergen voters rejected the last attempt to opt out, in 1993, by more than 80,000 votes.

    Bergen County Republicans said Christie did not inform them of his proposal before he presented the budget Tuesday, but many supported holding another referendum.

    “If you had such a referendum today, I think it might pass to bring us into conformity with the rest of the state,” said state Sen. Gerald Cardinale, R-Demarest.

    However, Christie could sidestep a referendum by persuading the Legislature to repeal the law. Michael Drewniak, a spokesman for Christie, did not rule that out.

  396. chicagofinance says:

    Stick to things you know, such as rural Maryland…..

    389.plg says:
    March 16, 2010 at 10:11 pm
    Do you have any evidence at all that consolidation saves a significant amount of money?

  397. chicagofinance says:

    GRIM: EDT! got it?

  398. chicagofinance says:

    Can you say too much nose candy in My-jammie?

  399. Stu says:

    I don’t often agree with plg, but using Glen Ridge and Montclair as an example, the significantly smaller town is run extremely tight and Montclair, the Goliath in this case, is fiscally fcuked. I would be more worried about Glen Ridge picking up Montclair’s bad habits rather then Montclair picking up Glen Ridge’s good habits.

    Economies of scale are obtained in the private sector as their is a profit motive that drives decision making. In the public sector there is no profit motive whatsoever. As revenues decrease, towns simply raise taxes to make up the difference. In Montclair, they will fire lots of aids and entry level teachers who must work their bottoms off to obtain tenure. The tenured and frequently paid overpaid folks who rest on their laurels get to stay. In the private sector, they tend to go after mid-level managers where the company gets the best bang for the buck. Many times, a mid level manager making 100K can easily be replaced with three recent college grads pulling 35K each.

    Regionalization is just an excuse by those in power in the public sector to maintain their impossibly unsustainable benefits. For the record, I support most of the teachers. What I can’t stand are the administrators and non-union deputy and chief firefighters as well as their counterparts on the police force who are pulling in 140K with guaranteed benefits for life and retirement at 55. So what if they paid in 8%? Give me the same guarantee in the private sector and put in 30%!

  400. chicagofinance says:

    The end is nigh….

    MARCH 17, 2010
    Who Could Eat All This?
    The Chains With Free Food Prizes and the People (600,000!) Who Want Them

    Eli Meir Kaplan for The Wall Street Journal .
    Next month, Denny’s will pick the winners of its “Grand Slam for a Year” promotion. Each can order 52 servings of a Denny’s Grand Slam breakfast, or two eggs, two strips of bacon, two sausage links and two pancakes. That’s a stack of pancakes four feet high, with 17,680 calories, not counting the syrup.

    Denny’s Corp. hopes the contest brings more customers through the door, especially since people can’t necessarily eat this much themselves and often bring along their friends. “Consumers still respond to free,” says John Dillon, the company’s vice president of marketing.

    Doughnuts, popcorn chicken and foot-long sandwiches are free for the taking, too. Among the chains with giveaway contests and other promotions: Subway, Chick-fil-A Inc., Krispy Kreme Doughnuts Inc. and KFC Corp.

    Giveaways are an inexpensive way for companies to stretch their marketing dollars during the recession. Contestants also tend to brag about the sport of entering free food contests, something that’s easier than ever with social media sites like Facebook and Twitter. That spreads the restaurants’ marketing message even further.

    Out of the 600,000 people who entered the Denny’s contest, 450,000 opted to join the Denny’s Rewards program, which regularly emails updates on new menu items and specials. Denny’s bets these emails will draw more loyal customers to its 1,545 restaurants, Mr. Dillon says.

    Jesse Martin camped out overnight this month outside a San Marcos, Texas, Chick-fil-A for a chance to win a year’s worth of chicken sandwiches. The Atlanta-based fast-food chain gives away free meals for a year to the first 100 customers at new stores’ grand openings. So far, Mr. Martin, a 34-year-old college pastor from Austin, Texas, has been to five Chick-fil-A grand openings and won at four of them.

    Chicken, More Chicken
    What the chain calls a year’s supply, or about $300 in store credits, lasts about two or three months in the hands of Mr. Martin. “I eat there sometimes two or three times a week. Sometimes I eat there three times a day and eat free all day,” he says. He typically orders the chain’s classic chicken sandwich and nuggets. Mr. Martin shares his winnings with friends and with his 9-year-old son Josiah and 6-year-old daughter Kelli.

    Even when he doesn’t have free gift certificates, he typically eats at Chick-fil-A once or twice a week either by himself or with others. In May, he plans on taking his wife to the next grand opening in a nearby town so she can get her own gift certificates for the family to share. “I’m a raving, craving fan,” says Mr. Martin, adding that Chick-fil-A has been his favorite fast-food chain since he was 10.

    A Chick-fil-A spokeswoman declined to comment.

    The public and governmental pressure on restaurant chains to make their menus healthier and encourage adults to stay in the 2,000-daily-calorie range hasn’t appeared to dampen the food giveaways.

    Free-food offers first gained in popularity during the 1970s, when America was hit hard economically by the energy crisis, says Burt Flickinger III, managing director of consulting firm Strategic Resource Group. “The worst of times economically are the best of times for establishments offering something free,” he adds.

    ShopRite grocery stores, which are members of Wakefern Food Corp., a Keasbey, N.J.-based cooperative, began offering buy-one-get-one-free offers in 1979, a spokeswoman says. In the early 1980s, the company started giving away free turkeys for Thanksgiving and free hams for Easter. Later restaurants began offering all-you-can-drink beverages and then all-you-can-eat buffets, Mr. Flickinger says.

    Subway in February announced a food giveaway to promote its “Five Dollar Footlong” sandwich. In it, 71 winners will win free sandwiches for a year, amounting to a $260 gift card. Subway was able to add 400,000 customers to its marketing database with the promotion, says Tony Pace, the company’s chief marketing officer.

    Krispy Kreme offers a dozen free doughnuts a week for a year to the first customer at new store openings. The next 11 customers get one dozen free doughnuts a month for a year, but the terms vary by location.

    Giving away free food for a year to 100 people at a restaurant opening costs a national fast-food chain at least $30,000 per opening, says Lori Walderich, principal of IdeaStudio, a marketing company specializing in chain-restaurant marketing and promotion. This includes food costs, security, advertising and other expenses. “It’s an inexpensive way to build customer loyalty,” she says.

    Denny’s, based in Spartanburg, S.C., says that its Grand-Slam-for-a-year prizes are worth about $311 per customer, and that winners are selected at random by a computer.

    Fighting for Stomachs
    “Our customers are looking to stretch their dollar as much as it can go,” says Mr. Dillon, the marketing executive. The competitive landscape has become more cutthroat during the recession. “We are each fighting for a share of the stomach.”

    An estimated 30% to 40% of free-food coupons are redeemed, says Mr. Flickinger. By contrast, just 1.5% to 2% of coupons offering discounts are used.

    And winners rarely dine alone—they’re likely to bring friends who maybe have never dined at the restaurant or who may pay for their own meal, says Stowe Shoemaker, associate dean of research at the Conrad N. Hilton College of Hotel and Restaurant Management at the University of Houston.

    Donna Feild has just $100 remaining of the $1,000 in free meals she won by entering an online contest at KFC Corp. last year. The pharmacist from Brush Prairie, Wash., expects to keep going to KFC after her winnings are up. Her teenage sons have developed a taste for KFC’s popcorn chicken and chicken strips. “We’ve gotten in the habit. Teenagers, they don’t tend to change, they want the same thing over and over,” Ms. Feild, 49, says.

    KFC, a subsidiary of Yum Brands Inc., runs promotions like the one Ms. Feild won, which also included a trip to Walt Disney World in Orlando, Fla., two or three times a year, says Laurie Schalow, a KFC spokeswoman. The chain typically uses a year’s worth of free food to bring in customers to promote a new product. Last Mother’s Day, the company sponsored a sweepstakes to promote its new grilled chicken, for example.

    Last year, Ryan Leer won a video contest sponsored by sandwich-maker Quiznos. For creating a clip that features a fake rocket-launcher shooting the chain’s “Toasty Torpedo” sandwiches, Mr. Leer won $10,000 and a year’s worth of sandwiches. Quiznos sent customers to its Web site so they could vote on winning videos, giving them valuable exposure in return.

    This video contest helped add about 68,000 new customers to Quiznos marketing database. “That’s the best way to advertise,” says Trey Hall, chief marketing officer for Quiznos.

    While Mr. Leer entered the video contest for the cash, the year’s supply of sandwiches—actually $260 worth of gift certificates—was a nice bonus, he says. The 23-year-old video-production major at the University of Wisconsin-Superior and his friends made about 40 trips to the sandwich shop in six months. “It is supposed to be a year supply, but that went pretty quick,” he says. “I have been there a couple times since with my own money, so they did their job.”

    Joel Levinson, 29, from Los Angeles was a runner-up behind Mr. Leer. For coming in second, he won a year’s supply of Quiznos sandwiches. For his video, Mr. Levinson went to New York, Los Angeles, Chicago and Atlanta and compared Quiznos sandwiches to the skyscrapers.

    Despite making a video about Quiznos and winning a year’s worth of free sandwiches, Mr. Levinson has yet to cash in a single gift certificate. “I’m trying to move away from fast food” and eat more organic food at home, he says.

    Write to Joseph De Avila at

  401. Home Advisor says:

    Please stay tuned for tomorrow’s announcement.

  402. Final Doom says:

    PGC (371)-

    I think Inter’s midfield can play ManU’s off the pitch. They will have no answer for Sneijder, who was clearly the best player yesterday. If Rooney can break Lucio or Samuel, he deserves FIFA POY…but I think they will keep him in check.

  403. New in NJ says:

    “I Wasn’t Going To Buy This House Until I Saw The Realtor’s Headshot On The Sign”

  404. yo'me says:

    Lehman Plans to End Bankruptcy, Create New Company
    Tuesday, 16 Mar 2010 07:43 AM Article Font Size

    Lehman Brothers Holdings on Monday filed a plan with the U.S. bankruptcy court in Manhattan to wind down its remaining assets and operations — and end the largest U.S. bankruptcy case in history.

    Under the proposed Chapter 11 plan, a newly created business called Lamco would manage what is left of Lehman’s commercial real estate, mortgages, principal investments, private equity, corporate debt and derivatives assets.

    Lehman filed for bankruptcy on Sept. 15, 2008, listing more than $600 billion of assets. It quickly sold its biggest units like its core U.S. brokerage and Neuberger Berman wealth management subsidiary, but hundreds of Lehman employees hired by the bankruptcy estate have been managing the company’s long-term investments in real estate and private equity since the bankruptcy.

    Lehman’s ability to quickly sell its core assets and then propose an end to its bankruptcy about a year and a half after filing the most complicated case ever was seen as a triumph for the U.S. bankruptcy system.

    “Lehman went in and there was real concern whether bankruptcy could handle something like that,” Jack Williams, a bankruptcy law professor at Georgia State University, said on Monday. “(The detractors) were wrong then and they’re wrong now … It works for small, medium and gargantuan businesses.”

    Lehman said the reorganization plan, which it has worked on for months, would provide a global and efficient resolution to the company’s bankruptcy, by resolving creditor claims and even those claims that various Lehman entities have against each other.

    Secured, administrative and priority creditors would be paid in full under the proposed plan, while general unsecured claims, direct intercompany claims and guarantee claims would in part be satisfied by some “pro rata” cash distributions. Stockholders would receive nothing and their shares would be canceled.

    “We firmly believe that the proposed plan represents a fair economic resolution for all Lehman creditors and will accelerate recoveries to creditors,” Bryan Marsal, Lehman Brothers’ chief executive and co-founder of turnaround firm Alvarez & Marsal, said in a statement.

    Lehman said the new Lamco company would provide management services to Lehman, administer its assets and offer long-term employment opportunities for the hundreds of Lehman employees who are currently working to liquidate the former investment bank’s estate. For example, it would be expected to continue managing many of the bank’s commercial real estate investments, like Archstone-Smith and other properties.

    The ability of Lehman to continue to manage assets outside of bankruptcy court would also save money for creditors. Lehman has paid $641.9 million in U.S. professional fees since it filed for bankruptcy, according to a January 2010 report.

    David Skeel, a law professor at University of Pennsylvania Law School, said that if Lehman can efficiently resolve its bankruptcy like this, it should raise questions about whether a separate resolution authority is needed to resolve bank failures.

    “Considering they were dumped into bankruptcy by the government essentially, it has proceeded better than anyone could have imagined,” Skeel said.

    “You’re not going to have a traditional reorganization in a case with a financial institution. But it can be dealt with effectively.”

    Lehman did not file a more descriptive disclosure statement, which typically accompanies bankruptcy reorganization plans, because it is seeking more time to include recent findings by the company’s bankruptcy examiner in the statement.

  405. Final Doom says:

    sean (394)-

    I am neither an isolationist (I went to history class the day Smoot-Hawley was the topic) nor an inflationist (most of the desperate gubmint programs to reinflate some corpse of a bubble are failing).

    My greatest fear is that after this bout of deflationary debt destruction- which I believe will last much longer than 2012- we will be left with nothing but a vast bomb crater of economic destruction. In a way, any signs of real inflation (you know, the monetary kind) might be welcome at that point.

    I don’t need to read Mish in order to think or oserve what’s around me. I also don’t subscribe to an inaccurate definition of inflation. Just because your favorite box of cereal costs more this week doesn’t mean we’re at the cusp of a second Weimar.

  406. Final Doom says:

    yo (409)-

    Lamco? How about Lameco?

    “Under the proposed Chapter 11 plan, a newly created business called Lamco would manage what is left of Lehman’s commercial real estate, mortgages, principal investments, private equity, corporate debt and derivatives assets.”

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