February Existing Home Sales

From Bloomberg:

Sales of Existing U.S. Homes Probably Fell for a Third Month

Sales of existing U.S. homes probably fell in February for a third month, indicating the lack of jobs is hindering government efforts to revive demand, economists said before a report today.

The extension and expansion of a federal tax credit that helped stabilize housing in 2009 has yet to spark sales this year as hiring hasn’t materialized. Home Depot Inc. is among companies cutting prices to stimulate demand as the world’s largest economy recovers from the worst recession since the 1930s.

“We’re not going to see a significant recovery for some time, though there is a recovery” in housing, said Zach Pandl, an economist at Nomura Securities International Inc. in New York. “We really need to see the job market picking up.”

The National Association of Realtors’ report is due at 10 a.m. in Washington. Survey estimates ranged from 4.75 million to 5.2 million. January sales came in at a 5.05 million pace, a 7.2 percent decline from December, which in turn was down 16 percent from the prior month.

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425 Responses to February Existing Home Sales

  1. grim says:

    From the Philly Inquirer:

    Gov. Christie signs pension cuts into law

    A package of public-employee pension and benefit cuts expected to save hundreds of millions of dollars in the coming fiscal year and billions over a longer period was signed into law by Gov. Christie yesterday, 35 minutes after winning final legislative approval.

    “Today is a great day for the taxpayers of the state of New Jersey,” Christie said at an evening ceremony as he approved the bills, the first legislative action he has signed into law.

    The signing ceremony came after the Assembly overwhelmingly approved the three-bill package that had cleared the Senate in late February.

    The changes will cut retirement payments for future workers by 9 percent, make all public employees start contributing 1.5 percent of their salaries toward health-care premiums, cap payouts for unused sick time at $15,000, and make changes intended to thwart pension abuses. Except for the health-care contributions, most of the major changes will affect new hires only.

    Two of the three bills will combine to save the state $8 billion over the next 15 years, Christie said.

  2. Final Doom says:

    Biggus Dickus (last post)-

    Would love to see the EPL go to tiebreakers on the last day this year. Entirely possible, too.

    However, I think Chelsea is done. Too many bad things going on in the training room & Ancelotti acts like he’s embalmed.

  3. Final Doom says:

    Ancelotti could throw the same slow, old AC Milan on the field game after game and win every week.

    Do that in the EPL, and the relegation teams can beat you.

  4. Final Doom says:

    Gerald Celente:

    “The crash of 2010 is going to happen as we are forecasting. All the stimulus money from around the world is drying up and what are they going to do for an encore?

    We need a productive capacity. You can’t print your way out of this. So whether it’s China, India, the UK, Japan, at some point the stimulus game runs out and the crash happens.

    The Federal Reserve or anybody else in the United States Congress isn’t going to stop it from happening. They have Katrina quality rescue skills.”

  5. Yikes says:

    the end of Acorn! great, now republicans can STFU about it and move on


  6. Final Doom says:

    Not even warm in Europe yet:


    Can’t wait to see a few thousand teachers running at the ramparts in Trenton.

  7. Dissident HEHEHE says:

    “Phil Davis is a hack. I listened to that sound file. No concept; no sense of proportion; pure anecdotal evidence; confirmation bias; poor framing; who gives a shite about the Dow…..ignore this useless crap….”

    Chi, you know I love you the Albanian brother I never had, but I think thou dost protest too much. Hack or not he does point out some poignant facts that are rarely discussed or pointed out on Bubblevision or the rest of the MSM financial press re the current state of the stock market.

  8. marty says:

    REmind me why state workers get unused sick days payed? How about cutting that 15k cap out completely. 1.5 percent? how about 5-7% if you make over 120k you fund most of your own pension with a state match. F#$K this pisses me off! This isnt going to save the ship, 8 billion is peanuts…we are listing to port with a 49 billion dollar hole in the mid ships. Old workers are going to feel this before its fixed. Greedy pricks

  9. Final Doom says:

    The only vote that counts is the vote with a bullet, marty.

  10. crossroads says:

    is the $15,000 cap for new employees?? there are a lot of people close to retirement w/ a boat load of sick days do they get to keep them?

  11. House Whine says:

    8 -marty. I don’t know if this is an urban myth but as to recouping unused sick days I thought I heard that they don’t have any short term disability insurance coverage and therefore have to bank sick days in case they have health problems. Truly, I don’t know if this is so. Maybe somebody else can clarify.

  12. House Whine says:

    10-crossroads. Yes, the 15 cap is just for the new employees.

  13. Barbara says:

    10. crossroads just new employees, we had a chief of police cash in 155,000 in sick days last week.

  14. reinvestor101 says:

    I want no part of the stinking liberal agenda and I REFUSE to participate in any damn health care reform that saps my damn liberty and freedom. That’s a bunch of bullspit and I’ll be damned if they jam this crap down my throat.

    NO ONE IS GOING TO FORCE ME TO GO TO THE DAMN DOCTOR. Give me liberty or death dammit. I’ll die before they force me into taking some damn pills and vitamins.

  15. Barbara says:

    when you’ve city employees sending their multiple children to Rutgers Prep, you know somethings way outta whack (Rutgers Prep, 20k a pop)

  16. hughesrep says:


    My wife, a teacher, pays for her short term disability. I don’t believe her district subsidizes any portion of it.

  17. Libtard says:

    “I’ll die before they force me into taking some damn pills and vitamins.”

    We can be hopeful.

  18. Libtard says:


    I was at a local town council meeting where they were honoring a retiring municipal judge. The judge was gushing with pride over the town and kept saying, “Montclair, Montclair, Montcliar.” It was all very well orchestrated until he mentioned how wonderful our schools are and the amazing success his children had at the Montclair Kimberly Academy.

  19. me@work says:

    Repost from yesterday:

    I’m currently stamping out disease and making the world a better place /sarcasm off.

    Will check back later…

    still_looking aka Tan-Less says:
    March 22, 2010 at 11:22 pm
    Nom, (and anyone else still awake..) That includes you Doom, chifi etc.

    There’s a zero hedge article you have to see.

    It’s a comment on this article

    It talks about how the government is taking the land from people (via MBS purchases)

    It lit up a bulb for me and is scary – I’m questioning its feasibility – or just tinfoil hat tinged.

    It’s a comment by “Apocalypse Now”
    on Mon, 03/22/2010 – 14:58
    POST #272528

    It’s close to the end of the comment section

    Please look and tell me what you think.



  20. Fiddy Cents on the Dollar says:

    Re : Public Employee Sick Days

    It cracks me up — none of them ever take a sick day in their 25 year career….yet they’re always whining about a $20 co-pay for a visit to the doctor’s office.

    TOf course the better play here is to come to work wiping your runny nose on your sleeve, and collect a big payout at retirement.

  21. hughesrep says:


    As a follow up to 17 she did use about forty days in sick time when she had our first child two years ago. She also took six weeks of paid disabilty after that.

    The second one last year she had virtually no sick time left so she got six weeks disability and then six weeks paid family leave.

  22. Dissident HEHEHE says:

    The most telling thing Celente had to say in that interview is the reality that “globalization” is nothing more than a great game of global wage arbitrage resulting in shipping American jobs overseas.

  23. Cindy says:


    Senate panel passes sweeping financial-regulation bill

    Sean – “Sweeping” ???

  24. Dr. Doom says:

    Marty, the bigger issues is they pay out sick days at your final salary. Take for example a Nassau County Cop who is retiring this year as a senior detective after 25 years. Back in 1985 when he was a rookie cop making 28k he did not use 10 sick days. At 28K salary two weeks pay is $1,076 dollars. Flash forward to 2010 and as a senior detective he gets paid 175K a year and he is retiring so he gets paid out sick days including the ten days from 1985. However, he is paid out at 2010 salary where two weeks pay at 175k a year is $6,730 dollars. That is the real crime, in this case they are paying out at 6x the value of the sick day in 1985. People don’t read fine print in contracts. Ok fine I get it encourage people not to be sick by letting cash out in end. But is should be valued at that days pay scale not your last. In this case if the cop called in sick ten more days in 1985 it would have resulted in – $6,730 (2010 pay-out amt)- $1,076 (1985 value of sick days) = $5,654 (savins to town if cop called in sick ten days in 1985).

    marty says:
    March 23, 2010 at 7:48 am
    REmind me why state workers get unused sick days payed? How about cutting that 15k cap out completely. 1.5 percent? how about 5-7% if you make over 120k you fund most of your own pension with a state match. F#$K this pisses me off! This isnt going to save the ship, 8 billion is peanuts…we are listing to port with a 49 billion dollar hole in the mid ships. Old workers are going to feel this before its fixed. Greedy pricks

  25. x-underwriter says:

    I just bought a house (not in NJ) and am closing in May. The HVAC is 18 years old so I’m probably looking at a replacement soon, especially since I can get a 30% tax break. I know this is a broad question, but any reccomdations on brands and general advice? House is 2,800 sqft. I’m thinking of just replacing the whole thing this year because of the tax break, even if it currently works.

  26. Libtard says:

    x (27):

    I’m not Hughesrep, but I’m a huge fan of Trane from an efficiency and reliability standpoint.

  27. x-underwriter says:

    Thanks I’ll keep that in mind. It’s hard to find consumer data on this equipment (no consumer reports). Just looking for decent quality at a decent price.

  28. veto that says:

    9 – Doom, Seeing that you are intent on escalating your profile, and in an attempt to disassociate myself, you leave me no choice but to formally go on record here and remind you that in no circumstance should you ever ‘vote with a bullet’ or attempt to solve any political problem with a bullet for that matter. Unless of course you are looking for an excuse to go to jail where your family can visit you with tears in their eyes.

    Everyone loves your posts but the jokes are going too far so please cut the bull sh!t. At some point, its going to be tough to convince the authorities that you are joking.

    Secret Service to Investigate Calls for President Obama’s Assassination on Twitter


  29. Bubble Disciple says:

    Re: 26

    I think the mistake was to treat sick days like vacation days, which then allows one to abuse them like this. My company won’t even allow us to carry over vacation days into the next year anymore (use them or lose them).

    I think if state employees want to save their sick days until retirement, then they should be required to follow the rules for disability. If they take more than “x” consecutive sick days, then I would expect disability to kick in, which usually pays at a lower rate.

  30. Fiddy Cents on the Dollar says:

    x :27

    Is it a Forced Warm Air system or Baseboard ?
    Or Heat Pump ?

    Trane is good….Weil-McLain is good for BB.

    In which state did you buy your new castle ?

  31. hughesrep says:


    I just did the same thing in September. Keep in mind your tax credit is capped at $1500. Your gas and electric companies may kick in some more rebate money, mine did.

    I’m a big fan of keeping it simple in terms of HVAC equipment.

    Most of the furnaces with two stage gas valves qualify for the rebate. Anything more “evolved” than that such as a unit that has multiple processors and a gas valve that will continully modulate has more things to break, and very little to gain, imho.

    As far as AC, make sure you go with something that uses the new 410 refrigerant. R-22 freon is being phased out. I believe you have to go to at least 16 SEER to get the credit fot the AC. I was using up my credit on the furnace, so I went with a less efficeint AC, but I got a killer discount on an old 13 SEER.

    Most major brands such as Carrier / Lennox, Trane, Rheem, etc are fine. I used to sell Ruud (the same as Rheem) so I’m partial to them typically.

    A smaller company like Comfortaire (disclaimer: I wholesale them) often has their equipment made by one of the big guys, in Comfortaire’s case the furnaces are Rheems, so that worked for me. I’d stay away from Goodman, I’ve had bad experiences selling them.

    Regardless of the equipment, the most important thing in terms of comfort is a good installation and having the right sized equipment. Don’t trust someone who just puts in the same size with no thought towards higher efficiencies, duct sizing, blower speeds, etc. Also, insulate as much of the ductwork as you can.

  32. veto that says:

    Fed’s Bullard: Recovery Is on Track

    The U.S. economic recovery is on track and labor data should look better in March and beyond, but more bank failures will occur this year than in 2009, said James Bullard, president of the Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis.

    “The situation is improving,” Mr. Bullard said in an interview Monday, adding that “the recovery is on track.” Household spending is looking better, and business investment is picking up, he added.

    Mr. Bullard said he doesn’t expect a V-shaped recovery because of the “damaged” financial sector.


  33. x-underwriter says:

    Gas furnace in air handler. I guess that’s forced warm air. Seems like everyone likes Trane.
    Bought in Leesburg, VA.(just west of Washington DC) Previous owners bought in 2006 and paid $100,000 more than what I’m paying. I was looking at previous MLS listing for when they bought. Original list price in early 2006 was $589,000. They thought they were getting a bargain at $515,000 in October 2006. Talk about catching a falling knife.

  34. x-underwriter says:

    Thanks hughes, I’ll have to print and save that info. Home inspection says system works but is getting old, especially the evaporator. I think the furnace is fine. Compressor looks tired too.

  35. veto that says:

    Higher Taxes Are Coming, But It’s Not the End of the World, Dan Gross Says

    Mar 23, 2010

    The tax burden on America’s wealthiest individuals is about to go up: President Obama is poised to sign tax-heavy health care legislation into law and President Bush’s tax cuts are set to expire.

    Many observers fear higher taxes on “unearned income” like dividends and capital gains will cripple the stock market, and the economy will suffer because a bigger tax burden will stymie high-end consumer spending.

    That’s balderdash, according to Daniel Gross, economics editor at Newsweek, Slate’s “Moneybox” columnist and author of several books, including “Dumb Money” and “Pop! Why Bubbles Are Great for the Economy.”

    “Everything people have told me about the relationship between taxes and the performance of stocks [has] basically been wrong,” Gross says. “Taxes may be a factor but they are no means the determining factor of your net returns.”

    For example, the stock market soared in the 1990s “despite” President Bill Clinton’s 1993 tax hike, Gross notes; and many of the same Cassandras fretting over higher taxes today said would kill the economy back then. Meanwhile, “the climate for investing from a tax perspective has never been better” from 2001 to the present, he says, noting President Bush cut taxes for capital gains and dividends, as well as the top income tax rate. “Yet we had the worst decade for stocks since the 1920s.”

    Given America’s huge deficits, higher taxes are inevitable for individuals, corporations, and hedge fund and private equity investors, who currently pay a scant 15% capital gains rate Gross says — but it won’t cripple the economy. “We’ll deal. We’ve lived through far worse,” he says.

    The Rich Get Richer More to the point, there’s a reason why Obama, who campaigned on a platform to raise taxes on the wealthiest Americans, won a solid majority in the 2008 elections:

    — Only 2.1% of U.S. households had income of $250,000 or more in 2008 vs. the median family income of $50,303, according to the Census Bureau.
    — The number of U.S. millionaires rose 16% in 2009 even as the unemployment rate soared; generally speaking, incomes for the top 1% of earnings are rising exponentially faster than the rest of the population, according to CBO data.
    — As of 2007, the top 1% of households owned 34.6% of all privately held wealth,while the top 10% had 80% to 90% of stocks, bonds, trust funds and business equity, and over 75% of non-home real estate, according to G. William Domhoff, a UC Santa Cruz professor and author of Who Owns America.

  36. Juice Box says:

    The Nuclear Genie is busy again, this time it’s Bill Gates with his plans to build compact reactors that can operate 100 years without refueling. For Space flight perhaps?


  37. veto that says:

    This is an interesting analysis of wealth distribution. (I guess its supposed to make the case for tax hikes on the wealthy.) I dont vouch for the sources but its got some interesting charts and historical comparisons.


  38. Yikes says:

    leftwing: “I don’t even get a Christmas card from the four or five families that owe their entire existence to my hard work.”

    ha! very well done, leftwing

  39. hughesrep says:


    Another tidbit to keep in mind is that to claim the credit you don’t have to supply any real info on form 5695. No make or model numbers, no proof of purchase, just a total.

    I’m sure no one will abuse this though.

  40. d2b says:

    One company that I worked for paid you for unused time at the end of every year. That was great because the check came two weeks after New Years.
    These debates something about the state of employment these days. I remember when the city was broke and the contract solution was to force a strike and pay for the new contract with money saved from not paying picketed workers. Workers on the picket line knew that the strike was an investment in future workers/contracts. I also remember when vacation time was given in lieu or raises.

  41. Libtard says:

    This seems fair Veto.


    Oooh, don’t raise my taxes. I’m dying over here.

  42. Juice Box says:

    re: #39 veto – The lefties in the House want to bring back perhaps the 70 percent top tax bracket again. First they are going to let the Bush tax cuts expire which will bring back teh top rate of 39.6 percent, and then move to raise the top rates incrementally.

    A little tax history. From the time of FDR until the 1960s the top rate was 90 percent plus on very high incomes. From the 60s until the Reagan years it was in the 70 percent. Under Reagan it ramped down to 28 percent, when trickle down economics was the buzz phrase.

    The leftie theory is with very high top tax rates there is no longer a reason to engage in quick-buck schemes. Instead there is plenty of reason to build a solid business over time, and hopefully eventually build a fortune of hundreds of millions. People could still become vastly wealthy, except it would take 20 years or more to become vastly wealthy.

    You can see the top marginal rates here.


    My opinion is it is already too late to do this. They money is already gone!

  43. Mr Hyde says:

    Juice 38

    Old news, but encouraging perhaps. I think the nuclear “Battery” concept is a good idea. Toshiba has tried to push the idea of a sealed nuclear “Battery” and theirs is called the Toshiba 4S.

    Their original concept was a cradle-to-grave operation, where they would deliver the battery, operate it and then take it back at the end of its service life and re-process it.

    There are currently a number of competing design for for nuclear “Batteries”. Toshiba’s ia a liquid metal reactor.

    Toshiba’s design included placing the “battery into a sealed concrete chamber onsite with only the turbine physically accessible.

    Toshiba offered to provide one of these for a remote alaskan village for free as a proof of concept back in 07-08

    I would rather have a well designed nuclear battery in my neighborhood then then a coal power plant or heavy industry

    …follow up, i just looked at the bill gates think and he wants to use the toshiba reactor….

    info on the reactor design


  44. Fabius Maximus says:

    #26 Doom

    Look at it from the other side. In 1985 that rookie cop was proably earing closer to $10K so by your math, its more likely to be closer to $400 for those days.

    My MIL was a nurse for 40 years in Kings County. She built up sick days. Back in the 80s she had to take six months off for knee surgury and used sick days to most of it. When it came close to retirement they were looking to book her sick time at levels starting back in the 60’s. So she just took the time.

    In these cases it is cheaper to pay the time as that point you remove the headcount and save on taxes and benefits for the time spent on sick leave.

  45. borat obama says:

    Victory is mine

  46. Libtard says:


    Compare your chart to this one. Makes you say hmmmm.


    There was a time when our government actually raised taxes to conquer huge deficits as compared to GDP. Those days are long over.

  47. veto that says:

    “The leftie theory is with very high top tax rates there is no longer a reason to engage in quick-buck schemes.”

    juice. i’m guessing there is some truth to that theory. although i dont know to what degree.

  48. veto that says:

    increasing income inequality.
    I’m not for that.

    gotta spread the wealth around. lol.

    easy for me to say.
    i never made over $250k/yr.

  49. Libtard says:

    Well come on Veto. Start working harder already. I want my piece.

  50. veto that says:

    Lib, ha.
    If i agree to fund your child’s education and pay for your major surgeries, will you at least be appreciative?

  51. Mikeinwaiting says:

    Existing home sales?

  52. veto that says:

    44 – Juice.
    Your post makes it seem as if we are headed back to the future.

    But if we’ve been there before, with marg tax rates at 90%+, then why all the shock and fear that we are headed toward socialism this time around?

    Isn’t it possible that the Marg Tax Rate history isnt telling the full story?

  53. Final Doom says:

    veto (30)-

    They will end up coming for all of us in the end. By that point, it will be too late.

    Our country is being taken away from us, morsel by morsel, so that no one notices.

  54. Shore Guy says:

    “Senate panel passes sweeping financial-regulation bill

    Sean – “Sweeping” ???”

    Everything this congress does is “sweeping” — sweeping our hard-earned money into someone else’s pockets.

  55. Shore Guy says:

    “easy for me to say.
    i never made over $250k/yr.”

    As the numbers are not indexed for inflation, it will be your problem eventually.

  56. Final Doom says:

    sean (44)-

    I’m not plume, but I don’t think you can compare tax rates pre- and post-Reagan. Tax sheltering and avoidance devices radically lowered the actual taxes paid by the wealthiest back then.

  57. Shore Guy says:

    “Isn’t it possible that the Marg Tax Rate history isnt telling the full story?”

    Because, backin the day, there were enough shelters that one could use.

  58. Shore Guy says:

    Beaten to the enter key by Clot.

  59. Shore Guy says:

    back in, even

  60. Final Doom says:

    veto (49)-

    Yeah, except it removes the will or desire to work hard, too. A nation of ambitionless zombies is much easier to control.

    “The leftie theory is with very high top tax rates there is no longer a reason to engage in quick-buck schemes.”

  61. Libtard says:

    Can one live in a tax shelter?

  62. veto that says:

    “the numbers are not indexed for inflation”

    57 – Shore.

    didnt know that.

    let me change my previous position to read: I am all FOR income inequality.

  63. Mikeinwaiting says:

    Existing home sales in mod?

  64. Confused in NJ says:

    30.30.veto that says:
    March 23, 2010 at 9:08 am
    9 – Doom, Seeing that you are intent on escalating your profile, and in an attempt to disassociate myself, you leave me no choice but to formally go on record here and remind you that in no circumstance should you ever ‘vote with a bullet’ or attempt to solve any political problem with a bullet for that matter. Unless of course you are looking for an excuse to go to jail where your family can visit you with tears in their eyes.

    Everyone loves your posts but the jokes are going too far so please cut the bull sh!t. At some point, its going to be tough to convince the authorities that you are joking.

    The interesting thing is you could give the same advice to George Washington.

  65. Confused in NJ says:

    Taxation without Representation (Real not Pseudo) is Tyranny. Guess Congress never took American History, just World History for Globalists.

  66. Final Doom says:

    veto (52)-

    Surgery with a bullet. :)

    Honestly, I’m sure I’m already being watched. I do not care. My financial life is pretty much over, having close to 1mm in liabilities and two worn-out cars to offset it. I would also expect the butt-plunging I’m about to take- courtesy of a bunch of egghead, liberal layabouts- to effectively drive me into insolvency. I’m worth more dead than alive, and if I can jam my kids through enough college to do them some good, my job is done.

  67. veto that says:

    55 – it prob wont be as bad as you or any of us think.

    Christie is just one small (large) example of how that all works out.

    Keep it together.
    The people will be heard.

  68. Final Doom says:

    I can’t wait to become somebody’s employee and climb onto the gravy train. I just think I need to wait to see how the game is gonna get rigged up.

  69. Libtard says:

    Remember a few weeks ago when we were discussing the rebound in home prices?

    Demand for existing homes remained extremely weak in February with sales at a 5.02 million annual rate for a 0.6 percent decline from January. The seasonal build in supply, at 8.6 months vs. 7.8 in January and 7.2 in December, is the steepest in the last 20 years. The build has been holding down prices which are at a median $165,100, up 0.1 percent from February, and at an average $210,500, down 0.8 percent on the month.

    The single-family component, which makes up the vast bulk of sales, fell 1.4 percent in the month to a 4.37 million rate. Distressed sales made up 35 percent of total sales vs. 38 percent in January. All-cash sales, reflecting tight credit and low prices, are extraordinarily high at 27 percent. Regional data show special month-on-month and year-on-year weakness in the still-troubled West followed by weakness in the South which is by far the largest region. The Midwest and Northeast, in perhaps the best news in the report, showed strength in February.

    The National Association of Realtors, which compiles the report, still expects to see a surge in sales surrounding the second-round expiration of tax credits this spring. But the housing market is in limbo right now, depending on stimulus effects which even if they do appear point to new trouble at mid-year, especially if mortgage rates begin to rise. New home sales will be posted tomorrow.


    Home prices for federal agency sponsored mortgages continued to decline in January. Seasonally adjusted U.S. home prices declined 0.6 percent in January after a revised drop of 2 percent in December, according to the Federal Housing Finance Agency’s monthly House Price Index. The index was down 3.3 percent when compared with last year.

    The FHFA House Price Index is for purchases only and is based on mortgages either originated by federal housing agencies or bundled by them for the secondary market. Housing prices appear to be under new downward pressure as foreclosures are rising and there is no surge in demand as earlier in the summer and fall with the early effects of tax credits for first-time home buyers. Tax credits were still in effect in December but the boost in demand has waned.

  70. Juice Box says:

    Just a history lesson, so don’t bother to squeeze your cheeks just bend over….tax shelters are Nom’s game not mine.

    Just watch and see absent Congressional action top tax rates will be up by year end. All of the Bush-era tax cuts will expire in December, including those on people making less than $250,000. They just tacked on an additional 3.8% to investment income starting 2012.

    don’t forget to cough, and you can forget about Vaseline….

  71. Final Doom says:

    veto (69)-

    I expect it will be worse. The people who are practiced and expert in voting with a bullet will dispense with Christie and his type the minute they begin to have an effect.

    As for the people, we are too narcoticized and dumbed-down to care anymore. As long as TPTB keep the bread/circus grinder going, we will keep sinking lower. We have reached a tipping point between the productive/non-productive, and the non’s have control of the joystick now.

  72. Final Doom says:

    Lib (71)-

    I’m on the front lines every day, and let me assure you, the housing market is dead and rotting. Given the incentives offered, current sales stats can only be described as putrid.

    We have hit a point of demand exhaustion, and no further demand will be generated until the problems of unemployment and stagnant wages is handled (bwahahahaha on that one).

    We are at the cusp of 20-40 years in the wilderness. Check your tents for holes, fill your wineskins and put on your best sandals. It’s gonna be a long walk home.

  73. Happy Daze says:

    246 sas

    You left out Jersey politician. Or does that fall under snake oil salesman?

    sas says:
    March 23, 2010 at 12:25 am

    I don’t what is worse, a dentist, and OB/GYN, a RE agent desperate for volume, or a snake oil salesmen.

  74. Final Doom says:

    Lying sack of shit Eraserhead on TV now.

  75. Libtard says:

    I’m just happy to see the teachers and administration not get a salary increase. Even though our taxes will probably go up by 10% or so, this is the first time I’ve ever witnessed salaries frozen and layoffs occur.

    A small ray of sunshine on a cloudy day.

  76. Final Doom says:

    lib (77)-

    It’s not enough. The only meaningful solution would be REDUCTIONS in salaries, bennies and taxes.

    Apply compounding to even incremental tax increases, and you see that a situation that’s currently unsustainable is still hurtling toward a disastrous ending.

  77. Mr Hyde says:


    you pointed out your own solution. Bring down the bread and circus and the sheeple will do the heavy lifting

  78. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [39] veto

    An even more compelling argument for my premise that wealth should be “off the grid” to the greatest extent possible.

    We have not yet begun to redistribute wealth. If the conservatives on this blog and elsewhere think they have seen s0cialism implemented, this is nothing. Much worse will come because it has to. When push comes to shove, the 80% of voters who control very little wealth will simply swamp the 20% that do.

    I also predict that, if there is another major correction, expatriation by HNWs will skyrocket.

    Why? Two reasons: First, because the tax losses will make it economically advantageous by limiting, or even eliminating, the exit tax. Second, because provisions in the HIRE Act signal that the USG will completely clamp down on expatriate money in the future, so it is better to be out before the gate crashes down.

    In fact, I would not be surprised if the wealthy who aren’t expatriating right now, or have no intention of doing so, are nonetheless quietly getting dual citizenships for their kids.

  79. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [63] libtard

    “Can one live in a tax shelter?”


    But before I tell you how, I need a retainer.

  80. Fabius Maximus says:

    “Taxation without Representation (Real not Pseudo) is Tyranny. Guess Congress never took American History, just World History for Globalists.”

    You get the government you elect. If you are in the minority then you have to accept the view of the majority no matter how unpalletable.

  81. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [58] doom

    That is correct. You are really comparing apples and oranges. The idea behind TRA 86 was to broaden the tax base but not actually take more from folks.

    Lowering marginal rates was the tradeoff for the closing of a lot of loopholes and tax shelters, and eliminating deductions.

    Libs love to point to the days when we had a 93% top bracket. But they fail to understand that almost no one was in that bracket due to tax shelters, deferred comp., and recharacterizations.

  82. chicagofinance says:

    Dissident HEHEHE says:
    March 23, 2010 at 7:47 am
    Chi, you know I love you the Albanian brother I never had, but I think thou dost protest too much. Hack or not he does point out some poignant facts that are rarely discussed or pointed out on Bubblevision or the rest of the MSM financial press re the current state of the stock market.

    HEHEHE: The language I used was specific.

    To put it in a context that may help you better understand how Davis’s analysis sounds to my ear: I was at the gym on Sunday during the Cornell-Wisc game. I walked up to one of the TVs toward the end of the game when it was obvious that Cornell had smoked them.

    Within earshot were two (piasan) guys I put about 20 years old. One guy is standing there in a FUBU t-shirt (i.e. automatic-clown poser alert). He looks at the other and talks like he is straight out of Compton. “Yo’ what is Cornell? It’s bullsh!t. Those guys wrecked my bracket. Kentucky is goin’ to kill those whities.” He actually starts to talk about all the talent on Kentucky etc…..

    OK – everyone has a right to their opinion, but do I think that a King of Marlboro NJ poser knows what he is talking about. Does he understand the nuance of the arguments that Cornell could stand in there and make a game with Kentucky?

    In the same vein….Davis exclaiming that “the earnings were a lie” is convenient, simple…. and to the extent that it provides support to the idea that March 2010 is asset bubble…completely wrong…..sometimes the MSM avoids certain information because it is simply unsubstantiated…

  83. Mr Hyde says:


    In short, burn it to the ground and the people might wake up.

  84. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    I think I found a list that Doom will be on: The Potentially Dangerous Taxpayer.

    FROM: Laura Hostelley /s/ Laura Hostelley
    Acting Director, Collection Policy
    SUBJECT: Interim Guidance for Requesting Armed Escort
    The purpose of this memorandum is to issue interim guidance advising of new procedures for requesting an armed escort to contact a taxpayer. Please ensure that this information is distributed to all affected employees within your organization.
    On October 14, 2008, the President signed Public Law 110-409, Inspector General Reform Act of 2008, which lifted the statutory prohibition against the Treasury Inspector General for Tax Administration, Office of Investigations (TIGTA-OI) providing physical security in order to protect Internal Revenue Service (IRS) employees. On March 13, 2009, TIGTA-OI issued a joint memorandum with IRS Criminal Investigation (CI) entitled Armed Escort Program (see attachment). Effective April 1, 2009, TIGTA-OI and CI assumed the following respective responsibilities for armed escorts:
    1. TIGTA-OI has responsibility for armed escorts in two situations: a. When an IRS employee has contact with a taxpayer who is the subject of an open TIGTA-OI assault or threat investigation, or b. When an IRS employee has contact with a taxpayer designated as a Potentially Dangerous Taxpayer (PDT) by the IRS Office of Employee Protection. . . .”

  85. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    Tax News of the Day:

    IRS says that when Jersey picks your pocket, at least its deductible:

    “Some State Contributions Deductible, IRS Advises

    Taxpayers may claim mandatory contributions to certain state programs as tax deductions on Schedule A of Form 1040 or Form 1040NR, the Internal Revenue Service said in a March 19 web posting.

    IRS said amounts withheld for New Jersey’s Family Leave Insurance Program “are deductible as state and local income taxes on Schedule A (Form 1040), line 5, or Schedule A (Form 1040NR), line 1.”

    Deductions also can be claimed for contributions made to California’s Paid Family Leave Program; the California, New Jersey, or New York Nonoccupational Disability Benefit Fund; Rhode Island Temporary Disability Benefit Fund; Washington State Supplemental Workmen’s Compensation Fund; and to the Alaska, New Jersey, or Pennsylvania state unemployment fund, IRS said.”

  86. Juice Springsteen HEHEHE says:

    While I am not in favor of this lousy healthcare bill I do believe something had to be done. I’d as soon have had them nationalize the entire shebang than this turd. End of day an illness should not force people into bankruptcy and a job loss shouldn’t prevent coverage via the ol’ pre-existing illness claim and under the current system those were both a reality.

    I’d as soon have them get rid of social security and cut the defense budget in half to pay for it though instead of taxing the hell out of everybody but they know the path of least resistance is to pretend we can have everything and delay any tough choices.

  87. Mr Hyde says:


    it appears that a single-payer system in the end game in all of this. Institute this mess, watch it fail miserably then blame all of the insurance companies. If done right, you will have the people screaming for single payer in the next year or two.

  88. Juice Springsteen HEHEHE says:

    grim unmod 90

  89. NJGator says:

    Watch out folks, my neighbors are coming after your money.

    At our BOE meeting last night, the ELC guy was encouraging the town to join in the coming lawsuit against Christie to try to force the state to fully fund the school aid formula this year. They claim the aid figures are unconstitutional since the Supreme Court only approved the new school aid formula (replacing the Abbott designation) in 2008 under the condition that it was applied statewide and fully funded. The ELC maintains that the proposed cuts are unlawful.

    No worries that the state is broke. This can all be fixed if we reinstate the tax surcharge on the wealthy who earn over $400k/year.

    The room then erupted in wild applause.

  90. relo says:

    91: I want it all. I want it now. I want the great printing press of eternal salvation to pay for it.

  91. Mikeinwaiting says:

    Ket 90 Sounds like a plan. May take a little more time IMHO but that is the end game.

  92. plg says:

    The right wing echo chamber is gettin scary. It is so divorced from reality its not funny. Where was all the doom and gloom when Bush passed the unfunded 500 Billion dollar prescription drug bill? Where were the cries of socialism?

    Beck, Limbaugh and Hannity are right wingers who promote and demand democratic failure. People like doom are so deep in this echo chamber they have no idea how divorced they are from reality.

    The healthcare bill passed. The sun came up the next day. The stock market did fine. America is still here. We are all going to be fine. The melodramatic end-of-the-world chatter from the right wing echo chamber is tiresomen, counterproductive and a nuclear-style political tactic. Just nuke the enemy, poison the well of politics so the other side can’t get anything done.

    Fox News is seriously beyong irresponsible in their coverage of healthcare. This is a moderate bill that uses the private sector incentives to reform healthcare. It is very similiar to Richard Nixon’s or John McCain’s healthcare proposal. Now that Obama has proposed it, the right wing echo chamber says it is going to destroy America. Stop with the drama.

  93. Punch My Ticket says:

    Nom [80],

    Second, because provisions in the HIRE Act signal that the USG will completely clamp down on expatriate money in the future, so it is better to be out before the gate crashes down.

    Aye but there’s not much sign that many see the storm coming. Presumably everyone thinks they can vote the vampires out before their neck is on the menu.

    While I’m at it, let me ask a question. If the US can impose an exit tax, then can NJ or any other state do likewise? If so, why hasn’t it been done yet?

  94. Punch My Ticket says:

    Just to clarify re possible state exit taxes, I’m not referring only to leaving the US. Could NJ impose an exit tax on those fleeing to Florida?

  95. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [94] plg

    Get back to me in 4 years. And if you are willing, we can posit our predictions, seal them in a safe deposit box, and dump in a bunch of cash, to be opened 4 years hence.

    Whoever is closest to the mark gets to keep the cash.

    You in?

  96. Anon E. Moose says:


    The right wing echo chamber is gettin scary. It is so divorced from reality its not funny. Where was all the doom and gloom when Bush passed the unfunded 500 Billion dollar prescription drug bill? Where were the cries of socialism?

    Your memory is as soft as your reasoning. GWB was hammered by the fiscal conservatives on Medicare drug bill. One major difference is that the bill had vastly broader public support than Obamacare.

  97. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [95, 96]

    Actually, states like NJ do have an exit tax of sorts, and they collect it up front. You pay tax on your salary deferrals at the state level, but not federal. That is because NJ would otherwise lose that revenue when you retired to Florida.

    There are similar examples in the corporate tax realm. Too numerous and arcane to get into.

    Remember also, that states are constrained by the constitution. An exit tax can be seen as an impermissible restraint on interstate commerce.

    Another constraint is the depressing effect it would have on commerce. NJ is trying desperately to encourage entrepreneurs to move here. An exit tax is a big, fat, red warning to stay the fcuk out.

    BTW, anyone here about all the new jobs being added in the Austin Texas area alone? Something like 100K last year.

    I don’t get it. Austin doesn’t have our culture, our diversity, and our proximity to NYC. What gives?

  98. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    “hear” instead of here, even.

  99. veto that says:

    “My financial life is pretty much over, I’m worth more dead than alive.”

    not true buddy boy.
    in a worse case scenario you will start over and all the debt disapears.
    not a big deal.
    your job as a father is not to ‘jam’ your kids through anything and you know it.

    had you started over tomorrow, I guarantee you would accumulated more wealth after five years than most people have after thirty years.

    who knows, maybe you can even get yourself one of those pensions. lol.

  100. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [95] punch

    Respectfully I disagree. Those who are candidates for expatriation do see it. They are watching developments carefull. And they are quietly heading for the exits. Remember also, this is not a very large group of people, no larger than a small city. But they control most of the wealth in this country.

    Remember, this is something that foreign practitioners and those looking to leave don’t want publicized. Only hacks like me talk about it. Fact is, they know that they have to move before it gets onto the radar. And it will once there is a high profile expatriation, like Jim Rogers or a wealthy actor.

    Once one of those happens, you will see an absolute rush to the exits because the HNW crowd will then have reason to fear the vampire at their necks.

  101. Libtard says:

    “Where was all the doom and gloom when Bush passed the unfunded 500 Billion dollar prescription drug bill?”

    I was thinking about this as well. Then again, using the Part D as an example of what might come from Obamacare is not heart warming.

    I didn’t read the entire 1200 page document, but I searched it electronically. I was surprised that I did not find any occurrences of the term ‘death panels’.

  102. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [89] hyde

    I had a meeting with two guys in the qualified plan business. I told them that very same thing.

    One said that he didn’t think that the congress was smart enough to intend that result; that the bill was the result of a compromise process.

    The other said that, in his circles, that has long been speculated. Because insurers are getting hit with new costs, those will be passed on, plans will be dropped, the uninsured will skyrocket, and the resulting clamor will be for single payer.

    It’s too obvious not to have been recognized and tacitly accepted, if not outright intended.

  103. NJGator says:

    Nom 99 – Austin is a cool town. Lil Gator and I visited friends there about a year ago. Great music scene. All the cultural amenities of a college town. Great food (I even carried home real BBQ for Stu from the Salt Lick)There are 2 big problems with Austin. First off – it’s godawful hot in the summer. So miserably hot that Lil Gator broke out in full body hives. The bigger problem with Austin though is that it’s surrounded by Texas.

  104. dan says:

    Fox News is as irresponsible as the CBO saying adding 32 million people to the health rolls will save $1.3 trillion and my oh my wasn’t it great that they passed off all those gains as happening 11 to 20 years from now when all the people that are standing by those calcs will be long gone…..

  105. jcer says:

    Republican…Democrat I don’t care I always want to call out politicians for reckless plans. First and foremost they needed to address the issues in healthcare. As I see it there are a few things that could have been addressed before we implement a plan with little understanding of the potential liabilities. First and foremost national patient database with healthcare information, national healthcare standards that insurance companies must follow, reducing costs and increasing efficiency anyway possible, tort reform and nationalized malpractice insurance. How can we reign in costs if malpractice insurance is squeezing doctors? How about addressing the shortages of qualified staff by instituting a program to train doctors, nurses and PA’s free of cost in exchange for service to the poorest americans? And the big white elephant in the room, in a period of poor investment returns(risky as well) and low interest rates the insurance business is fundamentally untenable! Insurers need to spread the risk and need to make returns on their investments for the business to work. Insurers suffer from the same issues affecting pension funds, high risk, poor returns. Until the interest rates go back where they belong and risk pricing is fully restored insurance cannot work and be affordable to the regular guy.

    I’ll say this for healthcare, the costs are out of control. My father went to the emergency room with chest pains, an emergency room visit and a night in the cardiac wing was 15k billed to his insurer. That is the very definition of insanity, he saw a cardiologist 2 times for about 15 minutes and was really just attached to machines for observation! Thankfully it was nothing serious but that kind of money for one trip to the hospital makes it very clear there is a problem and the Obamacare plan isn’t going to fix it. Without reducing costs how can this kind of thing be paid for when the entire country has access to it.

  106. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [103] libtard

    “I didn’t read the entire 1200 page document, but I searched it electronically. I was surprised that I did not find any occurrences of the term ‘death panels’.”

    So is it your contention that, under any gov. sponsored plan, or private plan allowed to operate under gov. auspices, that there will be no instances where care will be denied?

    Let’s narrow it further: Are you prepared to say that there will be no instances where any body (gov. or insurer) can determine that a person can be denied aggressive treatment due to a very low probability of success?

    If so, how about ponying up some cash to go into the safe deposit box next to plg’s and mine?

    Liberal snark is annoying. If you want me to take you seriously, put up some money.

  107. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [105] gator

    “The bigger problem with Austin though is that it’s surrounded by Texas.”

    You say that as if it is a bad thing.

  108. jcer says:

    Other problems with austin, a because it texas you live in austin but not actually the town like 25 miles away, you drive everywhere and at the end of the day you’re in Texas.

  109. plg says:


    #97 – I will gladly take the bet that the sky will not have fallen in 4, 10 or 15 years. I will also add to that prediciton that we will have a better healthcare system than we have today. It will cover more people, for less money with better health results.

  110. Libtard says:


    I think this plan sucks simply because it does not fix what is wrong with healthcare. But don’t for a minute think the Republicans have made any sensible approach to stemming the 7% annual (and unsustainable) increases we continue to pay.

    Our country is a corporatocracy. Both parties will continue to support the insurers. Your threats of an evil back-door plan for the future roll-out of a single-payer policy is as unfounded as the concept of death panels.

    The bottom line is this. The Dems will continue to support their voting block and the Repubs theirs. At the same time, both parties ensure that their corporate contributors and lobbyists are rewarded.

    Anyone who feels the need to praise the accolades of their party over that of the other deserves one of those bullets that Clot so willingly earmarks with regularity these days.

    I will put no money in the box. I ain’t got not money left anyhow.

  111. Mr Hyde says:

    Nom 104

    Even with government subsidies, a fair % of people/families will better off paying the penalty and banking the difference between Ocare and the penalty in an HSA.

    Hre is food dor thought. WOuld it be possible for a company to offer a “service were certain events will result in the company mailing you a check for X dollars and charging you a monthly premium for doing so?

    in short, could someone form a hybrid insurance company of sorts that does not offer healthcare simply a cash payment in the event that agreed upon and specified medical events take place.

    The end goal being a work around to sell catastrophic type coverage to people who choose to go the penalty route?

  112. Shore Guy says:

    “So is it your contention that, under any gov. sponsored plan, or private plan allowed to operate under gov. auspices, that there will be no instances where care will be denied”

    We spend obscene amounts of money “doing everything we can do” in situations where we would probably be better off doing nothing or doing little. When someone is 15 or 20 years past life expectancy, why on earth are we spending money on transplants? If a person wants to spend his or her own money, cool, but the public’s? No way.

    Remember when Micky Mantle got a liver transplant, after drinking his own to death? We make decisions every day about allocating resources but in this one sphere we seem to think that we should not.

  113. Mr Hyde says:

    Lib, Nom

    I see libtards point, but what gets me is the new bill is seems to have just about guaranteed that insurance companies are going to end up with a high level of high risk high cost customers and not the forced massive pool of healthy low risk low cost customers that this was predicated on.

    Assuming that that is the case, you have just set the political game up to go to single-payer. The average joe is going to see healthcare cost them more and probably be less efficient/effective.

    We are never going to back to anything resembling a free market healthcare system, so the only option is to go deeper in. The only option to appease the populous at that point is to say that the private insurance companies were the point of failure and that the only solution is to have the government step into the insurance companies roles and the federal government doesn’t have to turn a profit and wont be as greedy.

    Just my outlook.

    And by the way, I do believe that what we have/had was a mess, and we do need to change things, but i feel that we have made one of the worst possible choices in choosing something that we cant afford to actually cover.

  114. Libtard says:

    Shore guy,

    “When someone is 15 or 20 years past life expectancy, why on earth are we spending money on transplants?”

    I agree with you 100%. This is the big issue. Neither side is willing to put an end to this practice as it will absolutely hammer the insurers profits, as well as a lot of the medical supply industry.

    The cost to provide basic preventative healthcare to the poor should be a hell of a lot cheaper then dealing with them in the ERs after their issues have festered. The solution is really simple, but neither party desires to fix it. Put that in your box Nom. I guarantee you open it up in 50 years and nothing will have changed, except perhaps the value of your dollar will be worth less than a penny if we continue to administer health care in a way that only benefits the private insurers.

  115. Mr Hyde says:

    Off topic,

    But a little RE data:

    The price drops for median NJ single family home sales from the 06-07 peak to the end of 2009. These drops are on a quarterly basis so as to avoid seasonality effects.

    Difference between Peak median price and most recent quarterly prices in Adjusted $

    1Q $81,760
    2Q $84,480
    3Q $85,761
    4Q $94,689


    Run with this and tell the next realtor you talk to that the POS cape is worth 90K less then the stinking 2006 price they are asking.

  116. Mr Hyde says:


    I will also go on record saying that if we dont want a free market system where someone paying cash or on privet insurance IS NOT subsidizing the medicaid/medicare patients, then a single-payer type system is likely to work better int he end.

  117. Mr Hyde says:

    Dont forget, RE never goes down. it doesnt drop 80-90K in value in 3 years

  118. Libtard says:

    A single-payer system would ultimately work the best if the government wasn’t a bloated POS that couldn’t figure it’s way down a bald mountain with a GPS in hand.

    It appears that the concept of economies of scale when it relates to any pulic entity becomes null and void.

  119. veto that says:

    hyde, i always very skeptical of nar numbers. for obvious reasons.

    What are those drops on a % basis?
    From what i see, case shiller is the index that comes closest to reality, by a mile.

  120. veto that says:

    High unemployment and tough lending standards appear to be holding buyers back. That could derail housing as it tries to emerge from the worst downturn in decades and harm the overall economy.

    “Without a firm foundation in housing, the economy will struggle to return to normal,” said Lawrence Yun, chief economist for the Realtors.

    He said it will be critical to see a rebound in sales in coming months to keep inventories from surging. For February, the inventory of unsold homes jumped by 312,000 to 3.59 million, an unusually large increase that pushed the supply of unsold homes to 8.6 months.

  121. veto that says:

    Yun called that increase “discomforting” and said if it climbs above 10 months supply it could put significant downward pressure on prices.

  122. relo says:

    120: On the contrary, it works very well (if you’re on the gravy train). TPTB just don’t subscribe to the traditional academic definition.

    It appears that the concept of economies of scale when it relates to any pulic entity becomes null and void.

  123. Fabius Maximus says:

    #98 Anon

    Those fiscal conservatives were all screaming against it.

    In my best Ben Stein voice
    “Boehner, Boehner”

  124. Juice Springsteen HEHEHE says:

    The problem isn’t healthcare. The problem is the lack of leadership in Government, running a country with finite financial resources but not acting like adults and prioritizing what it can/can’t afford.

    From a simple moral perspective basic healthcare is one of the few things I can accept paying taxes for in this country. If people want care above and beyond that basic level, and they have the means to pay for it, that is their choice.

    If that means you don’t get access to the state of the art cancer treatment that has a 60% success rate but you do get access to the one with the 40% success rate and your family isn’t going homeless in the process than so be it.

  125. veto that says:

    oh ok, NAR NJ is saying that mercer county is flat from q4 2008, to q4 2009.

    I dont even know why i just wasted my time to even look that up.

    The entire NAR website couldnt be any funnier if it was a joke.

  126. House Whine says:

    122 Veto- It’s also the uncertainty of the job market which has people immobilized, unable to commit to mortgages. Even though my spouse is gainfully employed and his company seems to be doing o.k. we are way too conservative to take on extra debt right now. I would love to move to a newer home but don’t have a sense of financial security. There is just too much angst over the future to take any risks right now. I feel like just saving every penny we can.

  127. Mr Hyde says:


    those numbers come from subtracting current 4q prices from peak 4q prices in 07, the same for 1q, 2q, and 3q

    those are median sales prices for all nj single family home sales

  128. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [111] plg

    You’re on.

    We can negotiate the particulars.


  129. Mr Hyde says:


    the boomers who are the major voting block would never accept that. They deserve nothing but the best! They are OWED nothing but the best!

  130. Anon E. Moose says:


    … but PLG didn’t say congressmen generally, or Boehner specifically, he said “right wing echo chamber”, and specifically, “Beck, Limbaugh and Hannity”. Your reading comprehension is right up there with PLG’s memory.

    BTW, Beck was barely in the political radio game in 2003 (his transition from drive-time personality began about 2000). He wasn’t on TV until 2006.

    I know… facts are hard.

  131. Shore Guy says:

    ““Without a firm foundation in housing, the economy will struggle to return to normal,”

    Ergo, we are soooooooo important you need to prop up commissions for our members.

  132. Zelina says:

    i think the economyc crisis isn’t over. it just started.

  133. Mr Hyde says:


    what’s the % drop from peak for the cs index so far

  134. veto that says:

    about 20% using cs.

    what does nar say?

  135. Fabius Maximus says:

    #133 Anon

    You point in #98 was that GWB was hammered by the fiscal conservatives, my point is that a lot of them were standing right there beside him. The hypocrisy from Boehnar, Cantor et al is astounding.

    Check your own comprehension.

  136. Mr Hyde says:



    so that 80-90k price drop more or less agrees with the CS index

  137. Anon E. Moose says:


    Well, it seems we agree that PLG was wrong about “right wing echo chamber”, and “Beck, Limbaugh and Hannity”. That was my point.

  138. Juice Springsteen HEHEHE says:


    And the problem is THE boomers are the one’s running the country.

  139. veto that says:

    ok, thats good.

    Maybe I shouldnt be so skeptical to think nar would tinker with the price data.

    15%-25% seems about right. Just judging from looking in my price range.

  140. Fabius Maximus says:

    #105 NJGator

    #3 I think you also have great gas drilling in the suburbs.

    Got to love that clean water.


  141. Fabius Maximus says:

    #140 Anon

    Actualy I agree with him, and its the likes of Boehner, Pal1n, that givs the windbags fuel.

    Here is a nice centerist article, that takes Dems to task as well


  142. Fabius Maximus says:

    #131 Nom

    I might be tempted with putting this in the box.

    “If O is on the ballot Nov 6th 2012, he gets a second term”

  143. Juice Springsteen HEHEHE says:

    Double Dip?

    “Unfortunately, from my perspective there have been two very distinct recoveries.

    The first one is a recovery in asset prices — which I attribute exclusively to the unprecedented level of liquidity provided by the Federal Reserve and the resulting “forced march” into risk. (i.e. people will tolerate 0% returns on their deposits for only so long before heading into something yielding more).

    The second one is the recovery in consumer spending — which I attribute to high levels of fiscal policy spending by the government and the “reprioritization” of consumer debt payments away from their monthly mortgage to something else.

    Both note that both recoveries are manufactured. Meanwhile unemployment continues at near double digits; there remains enormous overcapacity of production and there is no wage inflation.

    To me we have flooded an engine with no spark plugs.”


  144. nah says:

    I thought TARP was supposed to bankrupt us, now Healthcare is supposed to bankrupt us.

    There’s an old saying in Tennessee – I know it’s in Texas, it’s probably in Tennessee – that says, fool me once, shame on … shame on you. It fool me. We can’t get fooled again.”

  145. sas3 says:

    Fab #143,

    and Texas now has a wonderful radical liberal curriculum that Glen B was railing against.


  146. veto that says:

    “we have flooded an engine with no spark plugs.”

    Haah. This is better than the ‘jobless recovery’.

  147. d2b says:

    I always wonder how many of those that are uninsured have BlackBerries and iphones. I think that many people that are uninsured have mixed up priorities. I’m pushing 40 and I have never been without health insurance. However I’ve written plenty of checks for it when I worked as a waiter. I also paid into differ COBRA plans when I needed to fill gaps.

  148. Shore Guy says:

    “The hypocrisy from Boehnar, Cantor et al is astounding.”

    Bush started the fire going, the Republicn leadership of the congress opened the windows, and Obama is trying to but out the flames with gasoline through a fire hose.

  149. Mr Hyde says:


    the rate of price declines we have seen so far average out to $2,400 drop in home value per month.

    As gary likes to point out. Sit in that house and keep asking 2006 prices all day you frisikie eating clowns.

  150. Shore Guy says:

    put out even

  151. veto that says:

    Shore, 153 – excuse me?

  152. d2b says:

    Going to get real interesting moving forward. I don’t subscribe to the Mad Max scenario but too many responsible people are getting wiped out.
    Quickly approaching a point that having dry powder is more important that good credit.

  153. Shore Guy says:

    The correct version, so as not to offend and sensitivities:

    “The hypocrisy from Boehnar, Cantor et al is astounding.”

    Bush started the fire going, the Republicn leadership of the congress opened the windows, and Obama is trying to put out the flames with gasoline through a fire hose.

  154. jcer says:

    Back on to real estate, does anyone here have any experience buying a short sale? I am trying and wonder what tactic to use and how much the bank will likely let it go at given the cost of foreclosing due to it being a high rise apartment with a $1400 a month maintenance and tax bill. My buyers agent seems to think we can buy substantially below market and I’m not so sure.

  155. d2b says:

    Shore 151-
    Very true. Bothers me to hear all of the talking heads switching sides. I remember having arguements on other boards with people that said that deficts were not important.

  156. Juice Box says:

    jcer $1400 a month maintenance? DO they wash your balls for that?

  157. Shore Guy says:

    “too many responsible people are getting wiped out.”

    Herein lies the problem.

    In fact, the real problem is that the ones being protected are either the super wealthy who finance candidates and have access and the imprudent, who by virtue of their numbers amount to enough votes to elect candidates. The prudent, may be doing okay but not so as they can drop enough cash to get the attention of the politicos and there are not enough of us to offset the numbers of the imprudent.

  158. Mr Hyde says:

    juice 159,

    yes, with virgin alpaca cloths.

  159. njescapee says:

    thanks to the feds intervention you guys up in jersey are just beginning to feel the pains felt in FL, LV, CA, AZ. It starts as small moves down and builds to an eventual crash.

  160. Mr Hyde says:


    we are seeing the core weakness of a democracy at work. Yes, we were founded as a democratic republic, but have shifted more towards a democracy over time.

  161. Shore Guy says:


    As far as I am concerned, my party’s abandonment of fiscal prudence helped propel us down this path. When there was a tug-of-war going on over spending,it somewhat constrained it. When both sides decided tht spending more then we had was good, it sent us downhill faster than a bobsled.

  162. NJGator says:

    Comp Killer or Value Priced?

    GSMLS 2755996 16 Bellaire Dr Montclair

    LP $539k
    Assessment $639,800
    SOLD 6/02 $561,200


  163. x-underwriter says:

    If the propety is not owner occupied, don’t bother. It probably won’t get approved.
    Look for ones with a HAFA preapproved short sale. The federal program is just coming on line and you should start seeing these pop up. The banks will give the borrowers a sales price in writing that they have to meet prior to putting it on the market. As long as you offer them that sales price, it’s guaranteed. Don’t count on huge discounts though. The banks will look at recent comps in coming up with that price.
    If the property/owner doesn’t have a short sale preapproval letter and the sales price seems too good to be true, stay away. It’s likely to be a boondoggle where you go into contract and the banks just say no. You can waste months and months on these.

  164. Shore Guy says:


    The founders were a wise bunch.

  165. Shore Guy says:


    A home at ANY price is a value if it is in Montclair.

  166. NJGator says:

    What kind of loss do we expect these folks to eventually take? I guess they got the 2 year itch.

    GSMLS 2756196 20 Sherbrooke Florham Park

    LP $692,500
    Sold 4/29/08 $699,000


  167. NJGator says:

    Shore – then perhaps you and Mrs. Shore should consider it as a country home. It’s walking distance to the Whole Foods and you would have the privilege of paying Montclair taxes.

  168. veto that says:

    “you guys up in jersey are just beginning to feel the pains felt in FL, LV, CA, AZ.”

    i hope you are right.
    But what makes you think the tax credit was any more effective in nj than any of those hard hit states?

    If you look at the population density, the amount of skilled labor and the fact that wall st got the biggest bailouts in history, there is a good chance that nj just doesnt get hit as hard.

  169. Mr Hyde says:


    If they today at the average market price, then they would have to drop the price by about 100K to 120K

  170. veto that says:

    “Comp Killer or Value Priced?
    GSMLS 2755996 16 Bellaire Dr Montclair”

    built in 1923?

    I bet that thing needs $200K of work just to make it livable.


  171. Mr Hyde says:


    correction, they bought in 4/08 so they would only be looking at about a 90K loss

  172. Confused in NJ says:

    Under “O Care” we will have 30M more Insured people going to the doctor for Well Care, and being told they are really sick, regardless of how they feell and need to be on Statin Drugs for Cholesterol for the rest of their lives. To bad the current Well Care doctors don’t have a clue about things actually bothering you. If it isn’t a number on a Lab Report, you’re out of luck, most of the time. If your lucky enough to have a doctor who predates Big Pharma, you may have a chance.

  173. Mr Hyde says:


    relax you will get your drop, all in good time.

  174. njescapee says:

    171, v, the other states’ prices topped in 2004. Corrections and subsequent crashes started soon after that well before any govt. intervention.

  175. joyce says:

    Gov. Christie signs pension cuts into law

    I just wanted to point out:

    “As Assembly Democrats gathered before the votes, however, several objected to a piece of the bill that would let newly hired workers opt not to receive a government pension.
    They echoed concerns, first raised by public-employee labor unions, that the provision would sap the retirement funds because workers who opted out of the system would not contribute to it. Early in the afternoon, that objection threatened to stall the bill. Early in the afternoon, that objection threatened to stall the bill. Oliver told reporters that it would not be taken up and might return in May. Then she was called to Christie’s office, along with Sweeney, and a compromise was reached. The opt-out provision was dropped.
    Oliver said Assembly members had concerns about the pension funds’ solvency.”

    The current system can’t function without contributions from new members. Definition of a ponzi scheme? (one of many in the public/govt realm) Step 1 is they admitted it; step 2 will be them understanding

  176. Shore Guy says:

    “perhaps you and Mrs. Shore should consider it as a country home.”

    I would be strung up or burned at the stake were I ever to live there.

  177. jcer says:

    $1400 is the carry outside of the mortgage, so taxes and maintenance fees add up to $1400. Pool, gym, elevator, doorman=$$$.

    If the banks aren’t looking to short sale these they are dumber than I have ever imagined. They are competing against themselves and the builder who has a few units and the carry will kill them. To take the unit by foreclosure at best costs them 20k at worst much more I’d likely say 50k. Then add time value of money, getting paid now instead of 15 months from now.

    I imagine as the day of reckoning comes near the owner stops paying everything including maintenance. The way I see it to get market price will take 5-6 months given the state of the market, the lenders should jump at the opportunity to unload something with such an unknown factor to it, they also don’t know what their getting when they foreclose. There already are REO properties for sale in the building. The other thing is without a substantial discount the short sale is pointless, why not go for a regular sale or wait for the bank to take it.

    I think FHA, freddie, or fannie own the mortgage not sure but seemingly the build was sold essentially with FHA financing.

  178. NJGator says:

    Veto 173 – Lots of old homes in our area have been renovated and don’t require that amount of work. Just won’t know about this one until there are some interior pics. If no interior pics are to come, then you are probably right.

  179. NJGator says:

    Shore 180 – We have about 10-20 Republicans in town. I assure you in the 10 years we have been living here, none of them have been lynched or burned at the stake.

  180. veto that says:

    “relax you will get your drop, all in good time.”

    i think you are right. Its taking about four times longer than i thought though.

    im learning to be more patient. have no other choice i guess.

    And I honestly couldnt think of anything better for the long term health of our economy than a 15-20% home price crash from these levels.
    especially if it took a few bigger banks down with it (not all – just a few big names).

  181. veto that says:

    “Lots of old homes in our area have been renovated and don’t require that amount of work.”

    I have a fear of older homes.
    Does it show?

    Everytime i see an old home i walk around thinking oh, that needs to be replaced. thats going to snap, thats going to crumble. Dont really know though. Most will probably outlive my 1980s condo by 50 years.

  182. jcer says:

    veto, depends on what it is, most likely in an older home plumbing, electrical, heating, etc are likely to fail. Also removal of lead, asbestos, etc is a potential cost. Other than that most old homes if properly maintained will out last us.

  183. make money says:


    Do me a favor and tell this guy where all the buyers are?


  184. Fabius Maximus says:

    I forgot the bipartisan clock resets Jan 1 every year. They are like children.

    “There will be no cooperation for the rest of this year,” McCain said in an interview with KFYI radio in Arizona. “They have poisoned the well in what they have done and how they have done it.”

  185. Libtard says:

    “There will be no cooperation for the rest of this year”

    YUP? Cause there was sooo much before.

  186. njescapee says:

    Fabi, McCain should retire already. He’s just a bitter old man.

  187. njescapee says:

    Repubs would be better off if they drafted Nancy Reagan

  188. Happy Daze says:


    You mention doorman so I have to wonder:
    If it’s the Trump building you’re talking about, aren’t they still hovering around 60% closed?
    And they already recently did a renovation of common spaces to attract buyers?
    (just observation, no need to answer)

  189. Final Doom says:

    plume (86)-

    Sumbitches better pack a lunch the day they decide to visit me.

  190. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [183] gator

    ” I assure you in the 10 years we have been living here, none of them have been lynched or burned at the stake.”

    Well, of course not. Montklair needs the tax revenue.

  191. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [145] fabius

    No bet. In fact, it is a central point in the novel I am starting on the fiscal crisis, and how it will lead (nearly) to Civil War 2.0. It is going to be set in 2013.

    But I don’t want to give too much of the plot away.

  192. Juice Springsteen HEHEHE says:

    Nancy Reagan:

    “That taxpayer financed healthcare sure came in handy when we were caring for Ronnie’s Alzheimers”

  193. Final Doom says:

    plg (94)-

    Dolt, I am not a Repub…or a fan of Hannity, Limbaugh or Beck.

    Typical dumb-ass liberal. Label anyone who disagrees with you as a knuckle-dragger. Fact is, I just don’t like picking up the tab for limp-wristed, collectivist layabouts such as you and your ilk. You love the sheeple so much, why don’t you and your commune pick up their healthcare tab?

    “Beck, Limbaugh and Hannity are right wingers who promote and demand democratic failure. People like doom are so deep in this echo chamber they have no idea how divorced they are from reality.”

  194. Final Doom says:

    Actually, plg, I’d love to see both parties fail and anarchy rule the land.

  195. All "H-Train" Hype says:

    Right on schedule, the 3 pm market pump delivers big time.

    We are so set up for a spectacular fall it is not even funny.

    Looks like October 2007 all over again.

  196. relo says:

    Anyone want to take this one off Zohar’s hands?


    ps – curious to know the history.

  197. Final Doom says:

    veto (101)-

    I doubt I’d ever declare BK. I’d just skate on the debt and flip the bird at any creditors. Maybe I’d tell ’em to try and take it out of my hide. Not into paying some BK lawyer the $$$ it takes to go the official route.

    No problem paying cash for stuff (even big stuff) for the rest of my life, and I doubt I’d ever need or want credit to buy RE ever again.

  198. Final Doom says:

    Things ever got really bad, I’d disappear. Believe me, I can.

  199. Final Doom says:

    I know how to cook and how to run a good kitchen.

    I could go all cash- off the grid- the rest of my life.

  200. Final Doom says:

    jcer (107)-

    Exactly. Of course, the whole intent here is to shift virtually the entire brunt of the cost to middle-class, entrepreneurial people, who obviously must be taught a lesson and brought down a notch for daring to create a business, create jobs, provide value or stimulate economic growth (or, God forbid, hit it big and accumulate actual wealth).

    In Amerika’s brave new world, we will all be amorphous, gubmint teat-suckling blobs.

  201. Final Doom says:

    plume (108)-

    Only a completely irrational liberal can somehow argue against the introduction of rationing…into a system in which care is already rationed.

  202. Final Doom says:

    hyde (113)-

    This sounds oddly like a tontine.

  203. Homer says:

    Just popping in. Haven’t been on the site in a while. Glad to see it’s still going strong. While I love NJ, I have had to leave and move to where life is more affordable. P-Tucky (pennsylvania) and let me tell you I could not be happier.
    Auto insurance-Cut in half
    Property Taxes- $2800/year
    Knowing I can still have someone pump my gas in NJ…Priceless
    LOL sorry for the lame post but it feels good to have a Mortgage payment (Including everything) less than the $1370 I was paying in rent in NJ. And I was able to afford a nice bi level house in a great neighborhood.

  204. Mr Hyde says:


    I love how sanctimonious people get with “other” peoples money….

    An interesting side note, the Masons used to offer a form of health insurance through local lodges before big insurance took hold. They shut down the masons right quick though. You cant have competition like that around.

  205. d2b says:

    I always felt that people could disappear in the restaurant business. I worked as a waiter for about 10 tears in HS, college, and beyond. People could drift in and out of places. Front of the house people worked nights, drank too much and never watched TV. Back of the house people were invisible.

    We had a family friend that owned a small neighborhood restaurant and bar. he had two employees on the books and a cash payroll for decades. His attitude was that if he was 100% legit he could never stay in business. He probably hired an illegal or two in his day. He had the same chef working for him for cash for about 15 years.

  206. d2b says:

    Homer 207-
    Where did you land in PA?

  207. House Whine says:

    207,Homer. Congratulations on a job well done. So the grass is indeed greener on the other side? Say a prayer for those of us still left standing in the Garden State.

  208. Mr Hyde says:


    ready to redeem your straw man yet?

    Chile still has some promise if you ask me.

  209. Libtard says:


    How’s the old Cracker Barrel treating you :P

  210. Libtard says:

    I just figured out the solution to our healthcare woes.

    We simply need to invade Iraq.

  211. Final Doom says:

    veto (123)-

    What will Yun think of municipal union riots, food shortages, bank runs, water wars, cascading bank failures and a stock market crash as the cherry on the sundae?

    I think we get all the above by the end of this Fall.

    “Yun called that increase “discomforting” and said if it climbs above 10 months supply it could put significant downward pressure on prices.”

  212. plg says:

    “Actually, plg, I’d love to see both parties fail and anarchy rule the land.”

    Good luck with that!

    You can have all that, it already exists in many place.

    Why don’t you move to Somalia? Yemen anyone?

  213. Final Doom says:

    What we need right now is a giant shooting war, so that people take their minds off the fact that all the usual illnesses and ailments that do us in- in the end- aren’t so bad.

    Much easier to have a talk about rationing healthcare when we have battlefield triage occurring on a daily basis.

  214. Final Doom says:

    Then again, we just shit all over our sick and wounded veterans from our latest war without end…so I could be wrong.

  215. Final Doom says:

    plg (216)-

    Why don’t you move to Detroit? No need to fly to Mogadishu when we have it right here.

    I’d love to put an over/under on how long you’d last in a place like Detroit.

  216. plg says:

    Final Doom,

    Don’t worry about me. It sounds like you have plenty of worrying to do for yourself. It must be hard worrying so much. It seems like fear has a hold on you.

    Take a day off or something. You need to get out of the fear bubble inside your head.

  217. Mr Hyde says:


    the latest 2 wars have been highly sensationalized, edited for high action low gore.

    The GOV has taken some lesson from Hollywood.

    They need to do a reality show of the triage units in Afghanistan and Iraq. Nothing like seeing a few field amputations to get people mind in the right place

  218. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [113] hyde

    Cat health policies exist, and under this plan, may gain dramatically in popularity.

    As supplemental plans, they may also be structured to avoid Obamacare rules. They could also be housed offshore to avoid government expropriation and regulation–sales to US citizens would be deemed to be in the domicile country of registration, not the US.

    Maybe we should get into the insurance biz.

  219. veto that says:

    “What will Yun think of municipal union riots, food shortages, bank runs, water wars, cascading bank failures and a stock market crash?”

    He would respond by saying that its always a good time to buy.

  220. Juice Springsteen HEHEHE says:


    Shooting war. Don’t give them ideas. You know they’re just waiting to do Iran.

  221. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [220] plg

    Yeah, come on Clot, lighten up.

    Have a little Hope and Change.

    That will help you forget the tanking r.e. market, that extra hand fishing through your wallet, and those prying eyes on your hard drive.

    And if that doesn’t work, try some medical mary jane. Goes great wtih Knob Creek.

  222. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [204] doom

    “In Amerika’s brave new world, we will all be amorphous, gubmint teat-suckling blobs.”

    Who was it that the NJ trooper said “Yeah, it sucks to be the public” to? Was it Yikes or Whine? Can’t remember.

  223. safeashouses says:

    You guys are way too negative.

    You need to stop spanking it with your thumb up your posterior.

  224. Shore Guy says:

    Just posted at the APP Website:

    OMERVILLE – Gov. Chris Christie on Tuesday called on teachers statewide to shoulder a one-year salary freeze and pay 1.5 percent of their salary toward health benefits to prevent layoffs and program cuts because of reduced funding.

    “If we want to put children first, if that’s really what the goal is, then we should put the children first, and that means all of us have to sacrifice,” Christie said. Christie, speaking in the library of Van Derveer Elementary School in Somerville, said those steps by educators would save districts $800 million overall. Christie said the state allocated $230 million more this year for K-12 education but had more than $1 billion less in federal funding with which to work.


  225. hughesrep says:


    And if that doesn’t work, try some medical mary jane. Goes great wtih Knob Creek.

    I told my wife last week I want to ditch my gig and open a combo NJ dispensory and a real BBQ place, call it the Smoked Shack.

  226. Mr Hyde says:

    Veto 223

    “What will Yun think of municipal union riots, food shortages, bank runs, water wars, cascading bank failures and a stock market crash?”

    I think it might go more along the lines of “this is the bottom, buy now or be priced out forever”

  227. veto that says:

    Here is what i dont get about collosal failure of motor city.

    America has the best engineers/architects/tech geeks skilled workers. arguably, right?

    And Detroit has got the country’s highest unemployment rates. right?

    Why cant we marry the two successfully, pay the local workers $5 per hour with minimal benefits and make really great, cheap cars?

    How could they possibly screw that business model up?

  228. Mr Hyde says:

    “If we want to put children first, if that’s really what the goal is, then we should put the children first, and that means all of us have to sacrifice,” Christie said.

    Fing SWEET!!!! Throw it back in their face b1tches!!!!

  229. hughesrep says:


    It was me. It wasn’t a trooper, although a few were there. It was a local from down near Al Gore’s neck of the woods.

  230. Mr Hyde says:


    do i have to explain everything to you?.?.?.?.?. (joking)

    If we followed your plan, we might actually end up with a car that would last 500,000 miles and have a scheduled maintenance every 100K miles. The modern auto industry is based on marketing, not manufacturing or engineering. The numbers dictate that if we built cars to the best of our engineering ability then we would have to restrict manufacturing capacity in order to prevent the saturation of the car market.

    What has happened to cars is no different then what has happened to houses or toasters. They went from durable goods that were expected to last a long time and be repairable, to being essentially disposable goods in order to increase the profit margin.

  231. Juice Springsteen HEHEHE says:

    ““If we want to put children first, if that’s really what the goal is, then we should put the children first, and that means all of us have to sacrifice,” Christie said.”

    This guy keeps this up and he is going to be a one term governor, but he’ll be the best governor this state or any state in the union has ever had.

  232. Final Doom says:

    hyde (212)-

    Nah. All the straw man redemption types I encountered a few months back are still tilting at windmills. I think there’s no chance of pulling that stuff off in this environment.

    Agree on Chile. Have gotten some reports thru people I know that the damage is not that bad, the disaster response has been good and many industries are gearing up again (esp. the wine business, which wasn’t too badly hit).

    Chile will also get a big bump when they advance in the World Cup. I have a win bet on them now at 45-1.

  233. Lawrence Yun says:

    Dont hate the players,
    player haters!

    buy now or be left out in the cold, homeless.

  234. Homer says:

    I am in a town called Emmaus which is south of Allentown. I will tell you it is taking some getting used to out there. Everyone is so nice, and they don’t want anything, the neighbors came over and introduced themselves. Everyone waves. I never thought I would be able to say I purchase a Bi-Level home with 3 bed a den, living room family room and a one car garage. It needed a little sprucing up, but nothing major and was move in ready. All for under 175k

  235. Barbara says:

    232 Hyde

    can you link me that!? gotta read that article.

  236. veto that says:

    Hyde, 234 – i was hoping you would jump at that one. ha.

    but that doesnt explain why honda is basically the only car company not doing horrible.

  237. NJGator says:

    Shore 228 – Montclair Educators have already done this. The union vote was 80-20 in support. We were told last night that our district educators were the first in the state to adopt!

    When Montclair is a leader in fiscal sanity, you know you’re state is in trouble.

  238. Rusty Trombone says:

    232. I am totally With You. Toss it hard. Go GOP!

  239. veto that says:

    “All for under 175k”

    ooohh, yeah Homer, that might be a little too cheap. for me anyway.

    when the town still has dirt roads and gas lamps, thats when its a little too rural.
    There must be some great star watching though.

  240. Final Doom says:

    plg (220)-

    Who gave your sorry ass the right to talk about fear to me? You’re an idiot, and you embarrass yourself here about every 15-20 minutes.

    Piss off, and quit trying to analyze me. Go stare at your navel and chant whatever you putty-lipped, soci@list losers chant whenever it’s not a happy, sunshiny day.

  241. veto that says:

    But Mr Yun,
    you said that last year too…

  242. veto that says:

    “You’re an idiot, and you embarrass yourself here about every 15-20 minutes.”

    lol. This is pretty much about as good as it gets.

  243. Dr. Doom says:


    watch this IPO, it is not different this time, the bubble will be re-inflated. Double dip recession in 2011 after short term stock pop driven by easy money.

  244. Barbara says:

    I have my eye on a fixer MCM in Robinsville, but the ask is still too high.

  245. safeashouses says:

    I’m starting to get bullish on NJ. The Big Man keeps making my day.

  246. Rusty Trombone says:

    Go Christie Go!

  247. NJGator says:

    Glen Ridge teachers are considering a wage freeze. Bloomfield teachers have apparently already rejected one.

    Tough Times in Glen Ridge, Too


  248. veto that says:

    barb, good luck.
    From my observations the ask doesnt mean anything.

  249. Homer says:

    when the town still has dirt roads and gas lamps, thats when its a little too rural.
    There must be some great star watching though.
    That is quiet comical. I am like 2 minutes from Allentown border about 5-10 min to downtown allentown. 15 minutes from Bethlehem. I am 2 miles off 78.
    Theres all sorts of stuff around me home depots, lowes, Biglots, walmarts multiple car dealerships, best buy, target, christmas tree shop etc. It is a nice suburban neighborhood. No dirt roads. If you go north of allentown that is where you start getting into the sticks.
    Actual I paid 165k. The house in NJ would probably go for over 300k. I still commute to my job in NJ everyday. Which is about an hour each way. Before I was driving 45 min each way, so not that much difference.

    “ooohh, yeah Homer, that might be a little too cheap. for me anyway:

    Veto its ok, NJ needs people like you to overpay.. I mean pay top dollar for houses in prime locationss. NJ will always have a special place for people like you :)

  250. veto that says:

    At this point, the ask price is likened to the suggested entrance fee at the moma… to a high school kid.

  251. Rusty Trombone says:

    254. Don’t worry, once you get laid off you can hang there 24×7 and not worry about the commute.

  252. nah says:

    Pa would be great if it wasn’t full of pennsylvanians.

  253. Lawrence Yun says:


    There is no better feeling than being a home-owner.

    Even in a town so rural that your neighbors sleep with their sister.

  254. Barbara says:

    255 hehe
    Its all abut how motivated are the folks in Robinsville to sell? Do you have a read on that? I’m talking about a 100k from ask low ball. Zillow isn’t much help.

  255. Barbara says:

    255 is for Veto

  256. Al "The Thermostat" Gore says:


    lol I agree. Listening to 101.5 in the AM is getting better and better. Love to hear the daily Christie quote bashing the tit suckers.

  257. veto that says:

    homer, glad you got a good price.
    good luck.
    I’m in mercer county and visit allentown often.

  258. jcer says:

    What has happened in Michigan is a real shame. The issue there is the left wing governor and the unions, at $15 an hour without a pension Detroit is really competitive, real estate is cheap(Including shuttered plants) and because of high unemployment housing is pretty cheap. If Michigan courted business well and didn’t have a similar tax issue like NJ has, industry could return. Engineers are relatively easy to get the auto companies have laid them off as well. Cost to bring cars to market is the issue. Tooling, design, etc for a new car is costly, lets not forget the suppliers you need to work with. US automakers seem to be getting a little better at making cars the public wants, now the question is can they make it work financially?

  259. Al "The Thermostat" Gore says:

    Unions Want to Take Over Your 401(k)
    One of the nation’s largest labor unions, the Service Employees International Union (SEIU), is promoting a plan that will centralize all retirement plans for American workers, including private 401(k) plans, under one new “retirement system” for the United States.

    In effect, government pensions for everyone, not unlike the European system and regardless of personal choice.

    The SEIU, which was integral to the election of Barack Obama as president, is working with the left-leaning Economic Policy Institute (EPI), and the National Committee to Preserve Social Security and Medicare, on SEIU’s plan, called “the Retirement USA Initiative.”

    Told ya. One sniff of this either voluntary or mandatory and dump your IRA’s and take the penalty.

  260. veto that says:


    Robbinsville is a wealthy community.
    There are sellers who are not desperate.

    But i have seen some desperate situations over the last year so it is definately not immune.

    The two comp killers that i have, miraculously dont show up on zillow unless you type in the address exactly.
    Which makes me wonder why zillow is trying to paint a rosy picture but thats another discussion.

    Town center is very strong.
    If you are looking for a new mcm, look no further than hallmark homes, cubberly meadows to see the monstrosities. they will knock off $200k without asking twice.

    On the older mcmansions, i wouldn’t hesitate to submit a few offers with $150k off asking price. I definately think you will get some people talking.

    Also, If trenton gets layoffs, robbinsville will take the brunt of it.

  261. Rusty Trombone says:

    I wonder when the last time Christie saw his willy was?

  262. Barbara says:

    veto by mcm I mean “mid cent modern” a few beaters in there with serious potential. I’m going for a fixer.

  263. House Whine says:

    264- Actually what took me aback the most from yr. article was the following:

    *Half of those who had a 401(k) were nearing retirement with less than $40,000 in their account,” said Eisenbrey, who is trained as a lawyer and was a Clinton administration appointee from 1999 through 2001.*

    I had no idea how little most Americans have saved for retirement and now I Really fear that Social Security will be means-tested. Too many people have too little money so they’re going to go after those of us who saved. Sigh.

  264. Mr Hyde says:

    House 264

    how many of those people were counting on home price appreciation to pay for their retirement….

  265. Mr Hyde says:


    I don’t care how big his belly is! I’m. Ready to take the man to the local buffet!!!

  266. Juice Springsteen HEHEHE says:

    “Told ya. One sniff of this either voluntary or mandatory and dump your IRA’s and take the penalty.”

    The more I see their retirement “plans” batted around the more I consider cashing out my 401-k and buying pieces of shiney in sizes I can hide in my hiney.

  267. I discovered this site on faves.com social bookmarking site. I liked it and gave you a fave! By the way I also loved your blog theme! Did you create it yourself or is it downloadalbe from somehwere?

  268. Doyle says:


    You’re hysterical. Years ago you used to come on here and b*tch about all the NYC workers commuting ridiculous distances and jacking up prices out in NJ and ruining it for everyone. You would rant about Wall St and NYC all day long. So now, you moved to PA and commute an hour back across the border to your job in NJ and everything is grand.

    I hope everyone in PA pisses and moans about you too.


  269. dan says:

    #252. Hmmmm, so someone got up in Glen Ridge and says, well, if we’re not getting state aid, why not privatize the schools? Wow. Wouldn’t that be something, corporate compeitition against a bloated government.

  270. Juice Springsteen HEHEHE says:

    Corzine New CEO of MF Global

  271. A.West says:

    House (268),
    Everything will be means tested, it’s only fair. You are your brother’s keeper, right? And your brother’s children.

    Is it a virtue to sacrifice your own interests (and life) for the good of others, or not? Pcg and plg know their answer to the question, but the conservatives want to dance and dodge and evade the question. Only the philosopher Ayn Rand realized that this is the central question in politics today – does an individual own his own life and property, or is he a sacrificial animal, to be disposed of by the spokesmen for “society”.

  272. relo says:

    275: Wonder if the firmwill can get an allocation from NJ Pension Committee.

  273. relo says:

    firm will/can

  274. dan says:

    MF. Approporate for Corzine.

  275. Punch My Ticket says:

    Nom [102],

    To be honest, I don’t see why most HNWs don’t just flee the jurisdiction and renounce right now. The new expat rules are much cleaner than the old. Take the one time hit – and it’s a big hit – but be free of Uncle Sugar forever. No more ten years of filing 1040s.

    Meanwhile, on the non-financial front, I note that the authoritarian slide continues. Zenger is obviously a name unknown in Michigan.


    I’m so glad I’m already gone.

  276. Homer says:

    Doyle its because of those people like that who I would rant about who drove prices out of reach for me. We looked in nj for almost a year and nothing. I wlould have loved to buy a house in nj, but I cannot afford to live there. Plus most people who live in bethlehem are people forced out of nj. Unlike nyc commuters I am not commuting for more space I am commuting because of affordability

  277. Confused in NJ says:

    268.268.House Whine says:
    March 23, 2010 at 5:07 pm
    264- Actually what took me aback the most from yr. article was the following:

    *Half of those who had a 401(k) were nearing retirement with less than $40,000 in their account,” said Eisenbrey, who is trained as a lawyer and was a Clinton administration appointee from 1999 through 2001.*

    I had no idea how little most Americans have saved for retirement and now I Really fear that Social Security will be means-tested. Too many people have too little money so they’re going to go after those of us who saved. Sigh.

    Obama is doing that alread with Obamacare by placing a Medicare Surcharge on Passive Income like Interest & Dividends.

  278. Confused in NJ says:

    244.Final Doom says:
    March 23, 2010 at 4:31 pm
    plg (220)-

    Who gave your sorry ass the right to talk about fear to me? You’re an idiot, and you embarrass yourself here about every 15-20 minutes.

    Piss off, and quit trying to analyze me. Go stare at your navel and chant whatever you putty-lipped, soci@list losers chant whenever it’s not a happy, sunshiny day.

    Doom, Never try and teach a Pig to Sing, it can’t be done, and annoys the Pig. When he’s roasting on the spit, he may wake up.

  279. Confused in NJ says:

    I think all the liberals are entitled to the current wonderful Healthcare that was given to Ted Kennedy, Jackie Onasis, etc. Expensive, and worthless, but let them have it.

  280. speedkillsu says:

    One of the biggest thorns in Corzine side was Mike Halfacre ,and one of christies supporters …and it seems he has lowered Fair Haven’s taxes again ..the 2ed year in a row !haohttp://www.fairhavennj.org/html/PressReleaseDetails.asp?PressIDReq=4dd0add4-57cf-458e-9a8c-bec573fde591

  281. Rusty Trombone says:

    I like people. Soylent Green is People.

  282. NJGator says:

    Speed 286 – that article is from early 2009? Any more recent news?

  283. Fabius Maximus says:


    “Drop out of healthcare, pay the fine, bank the difference and since they cannot hold a pre-existing condition against you, get health insurance when you come down with a major medical issue.

    Use your HSA as a stop gap”

    I suspect the HSA will not be made available to you if you do not have coverage. The bigger hole in your plan is if you or your kids need the ER in a big way. Try that with no insurance and assets.

  284. yo'me says:

    Since there is no more charity patients,will the govt mandate tourist to buy health insurance?

  285. Lawrence Yun says:

    Because you cant afford to let housing bubble part II pass you bye.

  286. Lawrence Yun says:

    im seeing bidding wars almost every weekend.

  287. veto that says:


    that is just not true.

    please stop it.

  288. Lawrence Yun says:

    house flipping is making a comeback.

  289. grim says:

    Price it right and you’ll get multiple offers.

    When has that not been the case?

    Now only if sellers could understand what it means to be “priced right”.

  290. Lawrence Yun says:

    The market is red hot.

  291. grim says:

    Posting under multiple IDs is grounds for banning.

  292. veto that - Lawrence Yun says:

    this has clearly gone too far.
    i was having too much fun.
    got all wrapped up in the new persona.

  293. veto that - Lawrence Yun says:

    “Posting under multiple IDs is grounds for banning.”

    lol. im sorry grim.
    didnt know about that rule.

  294. veto that - Lawrence Yun says:

    In all seriousness, yun is rediculous, hence the new handle.

    the spring market is clearly doa thus far in my town. The only activity im seeing is asking price reductions. and im hoping it stays that way for a while.

  295. Rusty Trombone says:

    I just changed my name…to protect the innocent.

  296. sas says:

    “tit suckers”

    that term has become popular in the past few days.


  297. sas says:

    “veto that – Lawrence Yun”

    split personality? sounds like you need serotonin reuptake inhibitors. I’m sure it will be no problem find some pharma lap dog trained doctor to had them to you like candy.


  298. sas says:

    speaking of serotonin reuptake inhibitors….

    about 4 or 5 years ago. I had a hand surgery. The thumb joint was a little worn out. I had the surgery, the doctor, i admit, did a swell job on the joint & tendons. But, a few weeks afterwards…I had a follow exam.

    He says… “how you doing?…you feeling depressed?, you feeling pain? if you have any of these feelings of I can prescribe a antee deepressant”

    WTF? its just my wrist, get off my back you god damn drug pusher. at least the brothers with the baggie pants don’t follow me around post-op like your sorry arse.


  299. All "H-Train" Hype says:

    I had an Al Gore moment at the Home Depot this evening. Went to get a new gas tank for my grill. The girl who helped me out was about 5 foot 3 and about 250 pounds. She measured 2 axe handles across the a$$ at a minimum.

    The cop working security had to get her, she did not even speak to me. After I paid she walked away and expected me to follow her. She told me to get the new tank and to place the used one in the cage. She walked away after it was finished.

    God bless the public school system.

  300. sas says:

    my rotator cuffs are worn out too. hurts every now and then.

    here is life joke for you young people out there.

    you try your whole life to stay fit, healthy, eat right. Never been on any type of meds. but, the twist, the damn joints start to hurt the older you get, and you may need a surgery, or a joint replacement.

    Me, that wrist surgery was the only “voluntary” surgery I’ve ever had done to me.

    I’ve had 2 other minor incidents. One being stabbed in the side by a kid no less… but, thats a story for another day.


  301. sas says:

    “All “H-Train” Hype”

    “After I paid she walked away and expected me to follow her. She told me to get the new tank and to place the used one in the cage. She walked away after it was finished.”

    I have a different take. This person probabley works all day, lifting things very frequently, back tends to hurt. so, the erson just asked you to do it to saver her back. cause it just one movement for you…no big deal….but she has more than likely done about 20 or so moverments of that nature all day. No sweat for you. but 40+ hrs a week on the other end…


  302. Al "The Thermostat" Gore says:

    The Sedition Act of 1918 was an amendment to the Espionage Act of 1917 passed by Congress at the urging of President Woodrow Wilson, who was concerned that any antiwar speech and organizing to oppose the draft and the war effort constituted a real threat to an American victory.

    The Sedition Act forbade Americans to use “disloyal, profane, scurrilous, or abusive language” about the United States government, flag, or armed forces during war. The act also allowed the Postmaster General to deny mail delivery to dissenters of government policy during wartime.

    The Espionage Act made it a crime to help wartime enemies of the United States, but the Sedition Act made it a crime to utter, print, write or publish any disloyal, profane, scurrilous, or abusive language about the United States’ form of government.

    All thats necessary now is a false flag event leading to an expansion of war in the Middle East. Guess what will follow.

    Things are going to get real ugly in this country.

  303. House Hunter says:

    Final Doom, and connection with a WEICHERT sign and short sales or distressed homes? I see that yellow sign and it makes me think…maybe

  304. All "H-Train" Hype says:

    Gotta disgaree with you on this one. I worked have worked 40+ hours in retail for a few years and never treated anyone like that. She really acted like I was bothering her.

  305. sas says:

    “Obama Administration Awarded Hundreds of Thousands in Airport Grants to Stupak’s District Two Days Before Vote”

  306. Al "The Thermostat" Gore says:


    “Measured exactly 2 axe handles across the ass”


  307. Final Doom says:

    Doyle (273)-

    I love Homey, but I’m with you. He’s just a bagholder in a different state. When it goes from gray to black, that house will be worth about the equivalent of a jalopy from JD Byrider and half a tank of gas.

  308. sas says:

    “God bless the public school system.”

    yup, segregation at it best.

    oh yeah.. an HOA is a means of segregation too.
    (or classism.. depends on how you want to argue it).

    but your wee reward for an HOA is like a community pool, or a mexican will cut your grass or something.


  309. sas says:

    hot damn I’m in the mood for a potato knish all of a sudden. Thing I will go down to Artie’s deli.


  310. Final Doom says:

    sas (305)-

    Sounds like you’re at a spot where some HGH would help you.

  311. Final Doom says:

    sas (313)-

    Don’t bait John with the Mexican landscapers…

  312. Final Doom says:

    BTW, sas, the HOA is also a vehicle for misappropriating massive amounts of reserve capitalization for the benefit of a select few.

    When the board pisses away the HOA reserves and list their homes for sale, everybody else in the complex better do the same.

  313. willwork4beer says:

    312 Doom

    I’m familiar with Emmaus. There are actually some nice areas and really beautiful houses. And the best beer store in PA, called Shangy’s.

    That said, I agree that this may be a bad play at this time. That area of PA didn’t get as bubblicious as NJ, but they are behind us in the downturn. And I’m thinking that Homer’s house is probably on the wrong side of Emmaus Avenue.

  314. Final Doom says:

    beer (318)-

    The market in that part of PA has depths it can hit that haven’t been charted. I also think there’s plenty more pain in store for that area, even though the bloodletting started early. Eventually, the jobs thingy will just act as accelerant on the fire there.

    Will have to check Shangy’s. I have a hankering for some Duvels lately.

  315. frank says:

    MF/Corzine = no more trading with MF. F them.

  316. frank says:

    Where’s the recession??

    In Manhattan, Luxury Condos Revive

    Trump International Hotel, where a 5,500-square-foot apartment owned by an Italian producer was sold for a 2010 Manhattan record price.


  317. Doyle says:


    In all honesty, I don’t give an F what Homer does. And, if he’s happy than good for him. But, the way he whined for years about his situation, then turns right around and does the same (and claims its different) is BS plain and simple.

    He wanted to ban NYC workers from buying where he lived. He should have been banned from buying in Dorney Park.

  318. frank says:

    The Case for Ending the Mortgage Deduction


  319. Barbara says:

    that part of PA is like one giant truck stop. Husband had to go to a trading show out there at some flea market/auction center. Miserable.

  320. Rusty Trombone says:
  321. sas says:

    “HOA is also a vehicle for misappropriating massive amounts of reserve capitalization for the benefit of a select few”

    I guess I never looked at it from that point of view. tell me more. I’ve never lived in an HOA, I always thought it reduced one’s purchase power?


  322. Final Doom says:

    rusty (325)-

    Now THAT’S funny!

    Do you also spend a lot of time at rotten.com?

  323. sas says:

    “Rusty Trombone”

    what kind of disgusting web page link was that you just posted? son, if you’ve ever seen one real zippo party in your life… you wouldn’t post such trash website links.


  324. Al "The Thermostat" Gore says:


    New York Times
    Best Seller

    Good read. Talks about the effects of an EMP airburst over the US and its implications.

    Doom, this is right up your alley.

  325. sas says:

    in any case…
    that potato knish was very good.

    now drinking a red wine from Argentina.
    This blogs favorite country.


  326. Final Doom says:

    sas (326)-

    Homeowners’ associations (HOAs) adopt & maintain community bylaws, make sure the reserve fund is capitalized, make necessary IRS filings for the community and often select and contract for improvements and maintenance work for developments.

    However, some HOAs do nothing more than neglect repairs that need to be made, cut corners and keep HOA fees crazy low- for the benefit of the association- until the reserve fund is drawn down. Then, mysteriously, everyone on the board resigns and sells their units.

    The next chumps stupid enough to either want or get drafted into the job then get stuck with the mess of recapitalizing the reserve fund, implementing deferred maintenance projects and making long-overdue IRS filings before penalties are assessed. I’ve advised to a couple of HOAs that found themselves in this jam, and believe me, it ain’t pretty.

    Whenever you see complexes that feature special assessments that drive the overall HOA fees from just plain bad to extortionate, there’s a good chance a previous HOA board went on a joyride and left the smoking wreckage for the next crew to handle.

  327. Final Doom says:

    sas (328)-

    I’m still trying to figure out what that girl in the ad up at the top was trying to crush with her breasts. :)

  328. Final Doom says:

    al (329)-

    That EMP was sure cool on 24.

    I also liked the way Chloe handled the situation. Gotta love a girl who draws down on an NSA operative.

    Too bad all this stuff is made up. If I could believe it was real, I’d feel better about this country.

  329. Final Doom says:

    I learned a new term today.

    “Zippo party”

    Bedtime. That one can’t be topped.

  330. Fabius Maximus says:


    When Mrs Maximus was on the condo board it was suprising how many mortgage companies were just interetsed in the Insurance policy and ratio of owners to renters. Not too many wanted to see the statement of accounts for the condo board. Any assoc with a special assessment needs to be looked at very closely.

  331. sas says:

    like borat obama says:


    night all,


  332. Tom Ganes says:

    Martin you need to sort out the awful display after this weekend. Too many tired wasters.

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  392. Wonderful to read!

  393. If God had meant us to fly he’d have given us wings

  394. For many moons now, your humble Autoblog crew has been following the new Saab 9-5 around the globe. Not intentionally mind you, but it seems that Saab has been dragging their 9-5 show car out to every show we’ve covered since before Obama was elected. Which is many, many shows (turns out it’s been since Frankfurt). And while we’re big boosters of the new 9-5, something’s always been… lacking.

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