NY Metro Home Prices Fall Again

According to the S&P Case Shiller Home Price Index (January 2010 – Released yesterday), aggregate prices have now fallen for the past 5 months in the NY Metro Area. It appears we may be moving towards a double dip scenario if the trend continues. There is a high likelihood of this occurring as housing stimulus is removed from the market. Almost all of the month to month recoveries seen between April and July of 2009 have been eliminated.

The NY Metro area continues to underperform.

Year over Year
Aggregate (Overall Market) – Prices have fallen an additional 5.3%
Low Tier (Under $284999) – Prices have fallen an additional 7.7%
Middle Tier ($284999 – $430496) – Prices have fallen an additional 5.1%
High Tier (Over $430496) – Prices have fallen an additional 4.7%
Condos – Prices have fallen an additional 6.4%

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563 Responses to NY Metro Home Prices Fall Again

  1. grim says:

    Robert Shiller’s comments on Bloomberg yesterday about housing having permanently become a speculative asset were very interesting, anyone catch that? He proposed that housing price movements would now be more closely correlated with other financial markets, instead of the historic underlying drivers. You know, I usually just call someone an asshole when they try to pull the ol’ “paradigm shift” BS, but I really wonder about this one.

  2. grim says:

    From Bloomberg:

    House Flippers in U.S. Crowd Courthouse Steps in Hunt for Deals

    During the U.S. housing boom, even amateur investors could buy and sell a property within a couple of months and turn a profit. Today there’s nothing amateur about house flipping.

    Homes with punctured walls and missing appliances draw multiple offers from professional investors at auctions in foreclosure-ridden states such as Arizona, California, Florida and Nevada. Competition is so stiff that experienced flippers such as Sergio Rodriguez and Brian Bogenn look back with nostalgia at last year, when they turned over 48 residences in the Phoenix area.

    “A year ago, bums outnumbered bidders at the courthouse steps,” where many foreclosure auctions take place, Rodriguez said. “Now the bums are way outnumbered.”

    In Phoenix, 4,661 foreclosed homes changed hands within six months of being purchased in 2009, an increase of 81 percent from the year earlier, according to RealtyTrac Inc., which sells foreclosure data. Flips in the California counties of Riverside and San Bernardino rose 45 percent to 17,203. In Las Vegas, which has the highest foreclosure rate in the country, they climbed 38 percent to 8,042.

    Nationally, flipped homes gained 19 percent to 197,784 in 2009. Final figures may rise because some homes bought in the fourth quarter may get flipped this year, said Daren Blomquist, a spokesman at Irvine, California-based RealtyTrac.

  3. grim says:

    From CNBC:

    Housing Prices May Be Heading for a Double Dip

    Anyone thinking housing prices have reached a bottom had better do some recalculating. Despite Tuesday’s Case Schiller report showing smaller declines in January, housing prices may already be in another free fall.

    Newly revised numbers are pointing to the decline.

    The Federal Housing Finance Agency’s (FHFA) adjusted figures show a housing price decline of 2 percent in December and 0.6 percent decline in January—reversing some regional price increases in 2009.

    And more pricing dips are predicted.

    “Case Schiller aside, we expect housing prices to fall another five percent in the coming months,” says Paul Dales, US economist at Toronto based Capital Economics. “We’ve actually seen some declines in areas of the country. That’s going to put a halt on any housing recovery.”

    Dales argues that the end of the $8,000 first time buyers tax credit on April 30th and the large amount of foreclosures in the pipeline—or on their way there—are reasons why prices will continue to fall.

    “There’s going to be less demand for housing when the tax credit ends,” Dales says. “That leaves more home on the market for sale. And as to foreclosures, there will be more of them and that puts pressure on prices. We estimate about 2.5 million foreclosures through the rest of 2010.”

  4. Essex says:

    As we watch the country continue it’s sniping and the various moronic talking heads that seem to capture the nation’s fancy. Europe seems more and more appealing. Even Canada looks good. I’m simply tired of watching the corrupt and misguided forces tug at each other. Politics and special interest have crushed this nation.

  5. Essex says:

    Welcome to the New Normal.

  6. crossroads says:


    Shiller has said all along that the psychology for housing hasn’t changed the way he thought it would. I wonder if thats because the NAR and their propaganda? I tend to agree w/ him on that most people say hurry up and buy before it comes back and you miss out

  7. Nomad says:

    Am wondering if we won’t see an unexpected pop in interest rates late Q3/early Q4 further eroding housing prices. Uncertainty for those with jobs and continued high rates of unemployment will continue to drive down home prices.

  8. frank says:

    House Flippers in U.S. Crowd Courthouse Steps in Hunt for Deals

    Where’s the recession?? Housing market is on fire again. Job market is picking up strong as well. Buy a home now, before the bums outbid you.

  9. frank says:

    Please move to Europe, do you need help with a one way ticket??

  10. Essex says:

    Aw Frank. “Hatred is the coward’s revenge for being intimidated.” G. Bernard Shaw

  11. Final Doom says:

    grim (1)-

    Shiller is onto something. I also suspect that once the investing public finds out how unsuitable housing is as a speculative investment, the next broad conclusion drawn will be that housing is merely consumption.

    At that point, the whole planet will understand that we’re in the midst of our 40 years in the desert.

  12. Bystander says:

    Amazing that these “woe is me” real estate articles are appearing now that the govt’s pool party is winding down. Before it was all about stability and “buy now” mantras. This is just manipulation to get pressure on Congress to open its legs again.

  13. Essex says:

    11. And even the desert will have wifi. Doom you complete me.

  14. Dissident HEHEHE says:

    “This is just manipulation to get pressure on Congress to open its legs again.”


  15. willwork4beer says:

    Heard on the news this morning that the housing crisis is over. Buyers are no longer scared to jump into the market since home prices have risen each of the last nine months. (WABC – no link)

    Anyone have any idea where they are getting these numbers?

  16. Essex says:

    15. Teh interweb

  17. Dissident HEHEHE says:

    “Anyone have any idea where they are getting these numbers?”

    Perhaps its the strategy of telling a lie enough times in the hopes people will eventually believe it?

  18. NJGator says:

    Doom – I have no confidence that the entire planet will get anything – ever. Last night, Stu and I were watching the flood coverage on the news. They’re interviewing a woman from Lincoln who’s wearing hip waders to walk back to her home for the 2nd time in a month and she starts saying that the government has to ‘fix the river’. Because obviously the propblem is ‘the river’ and not the fact that she was dumb enough to buy a house right on top of it.

  19. NJGator says:

    These are, of course, the same people who will expect Christie to ‘fix the tax problem’ without actually cutting any spending.

  20. yo'me says:

    “There’s going to be less demand for housing when the tax credit ends,” Dales says. “

    What happened to “Why give credit to somebody that is going to buy a house anyway”

    I think the game is psychological.The ones that are going to buy are waiting for the prices to come down,did it reached bottom?Interest rates going up?The $8500 credit is icing in the pie.It is not what makes the decision.

  21. Mikeinwaiting says:

    rent or buy check it out from are friends at Deutsche Bank.

    source: Deutsche Bank “Rent or Buy?”

    Using a Price-to-rent ratio, akin to a price-earning ratio, Deutsche Bank analysts argue that home prices could decline another 11%. During the early 1990s, the average price-to-rent ratio was 16.2. During the mid 2000s the ratio reached a peak of 24.7 in Q2 2007 and has since fallen to 18.2 in Q4 2009. However this 18.2 reading is still elevated compared to that of the 1990s.

    During the 1990s a booming economy did little to push price-rent ratios out of equilibrium as both home prices and rents moved in the same general direction. In our view, rents are likely to decline, thus prices may need to fall even further than the 11% that the price-to-rent ratio implies.


  22. All "H-Train" Hype says:

    Grim 1:

    Interesting thought. I have the same thoughts about housing just in a different way. People are now just going to hang on for as long as they can to find the greater sucker or else just walk away. Who cares about moral hazard. The gubbmint has taken away all downside risk. SO why not make housing a speculative casino.

  23. Mikeinwaiting says:

    Check out N.NJ on this chart calling for 20% more.


  24. freedy says:

    teachers all over the radio this am, telling us what a bad man Chris is. Will NJ ever be able to overcome these teachers, cops, fire,muni overpayments.

    take a look at the pensions these people are drawing, its stunning.

  25. Mikeinwaiting says:


    Check out this one it would seem that the NAR’s affordability index is a “Little” off. Go figure.

  26. pricedOut says:

    Heard this filmmaker interviewed on NJ 101.5 this a.m.

    Re. education and politics = corruption.

    Sounds intriguing…

  27. nw says:

    I think the new paradigm in housing is being driven by monetary and fiscal policy. It is not sustainable.

    Either the policy is tightened and housing retraces to fundamentals or the currency collapses.

    So I don’t think the new paradigm will be a lasting one but it can go on for a relatively long time evidenced by Japan.

  28. Al "The Thermostat" Gore says:



    The foolish thing is that they actually think they are going to see their pensions. Not a hope in hell. Thats what you get when you lead your life from the viewpoints of plastic unicorns and crayons. The great gravy train is coming to an end and they havent seen anything yet.

  29. nw says:

    In other words, the market is still driven by fundamentals but right now the fundamental element is cheap money.

  30. Al "The Thermostat" Gore says:

    Regarding state pension obligations.

    States have $5.17 Trillion in Pension Obligations, Gap is $3.23 Trillion; State Debt as Share of GDP

    “Fictitious accounting allows states to pretend their pension plans are in better shape than they really are. Hawaii, Montana, New Jersey, Illinois, Mississippi, Ohio, New Mexico, Rhode Island, and Alaska all have unfunded liabilities of 50% or greater. 20 states have unfunded pension liabilities of 40% or greater.

    Most states have pension plan assumptions that assume a 7% rate of return or higher. Such returns simply will not happen. Worse yet, another downturn will cripple states.

    $5.17 trillion in pension obligations is a hell of a lot of money. How will it be paid? The answer is it won’t.”

  31. Mr Hyde says:

    Mike 23

    I see Deutsche bank is close to my target of a 50% drop off of peak…

  32. Mr Hyde says:


    In most markets we also see overshoot in any correction, so how much do we overshoot on the downside correction?

  33. Confused in NJ says:

    Risks Seen in Cholesterol Drug Use in Healthy People

    Published: March 30, 2010

    With the government’s blessing, a drug giant is about to expand the market for its blockbuster cholesterol medication Crestor to a new category of customers: as a preventive measure for millions of people who do not have cholesterol problems.

    Some medical experts question whether this is a healthy move.

    They point to mounting concern that cholesterol medications — known as statins and already the most widely prescribed drugs in the United States — may not be as safe a preventive medicine as previously believed for people who are at low risk of heart attacks or strokes.

    Statins have been credited with saving thousands of lives every year with relatively few side effects, and some medical experts endorse the drug’s broader use. But for healthy people who would take statins largely as prevention — which would be the case for the new category of Crestor patients — other experts suggest the benefits may not outweigh any side effects.

    Among the risks raising new concerns, recently published evidence indicates that statins could raise a person’s risk of developing Type 2 diabetes by 9 percent.

    “It’s a good thing to be skeptical about whether there may be long-term harm from healthy people taking a drug like this,” said Dr. Mark A. Hlatky, a professor of health research and cardiovascular medicine at the Stanford University medical school.

    There is also debate over the blood test being used to identify the new statin candidates. Instead of looking for bad cholesterol, the test measures the degree of inflammation in the body, but there is no consensus in the medical community that inflammation is a direct cause of cardiovascular problems.

    The Food and Drug Administration approved the new criteria last month for Crestor, which is made by AstraZeneca and is the nation’s second best-selling statin, behind Lipitor by Pfizer. AstraZeneca plans soon to begin a new marketing and advertising campaign for Crestor, based on the new F.D.A.-approved criteria.

    Under those criteria, an estimated 6.5 million people in this country who have no cholesterol problems and no sign of heart problems will be deemed candidates for statins. That is in addition to the 80 million who already meet the current cholesterol-based guidelines — about half of whom now take statins.

    The new Crestor label says it may be prescribed for apparently healthy people if they are older — men 50 and over and women 60 and over — and have one risk factor like smoking or high blood pressure, in addition to elevated inflammation in the body.

    Some patients have long complained of muscle aches from taking statins. And doctors periodically check patients on the drugs to make sure liver enzymes are not abnormally high. Doctors, though, have generally seen those risks as being more than offset by the drugs’ benefits for people with high levels of “bad” cholesterol and a significant risk of cardiovascular disease.

    But then came the unexpected evidence linking statins to a diabetes risk, reported last month in the British medical journal The Lancet. That report was based on an analysis of most of the major clinical studies of statins — including unpublished data and the results of the Crestor study that the F.D.A. reviewed. “We’ve had this drug for a while, and we’re just now finding out that there’s this diabetes problem with it?” said Dr. Hlatky.

    The F.D.A. acknowledged the diabetes risk, and told AstraZeneca to add it to Crestor’s label. But the agency nonetheless approved the new use on the basis of the clinical study, which showed a small but measurable reduction of strokes, heart attacks and other “cardiovascular events” among people taking the statin, compared with patients taking a placebo.

    “It’s an important milestone for the company and for the patient,” said Jim Helm, AstraZeneca’s vice president for cardiovascular products. “We are already discussing this with physicians.”

    Dr. Eric C. Colman, a deputy director of the F.D.A. center for drug evaluation, said the decision provided an option, not a mandate, for doctors and patients. “It’s good to hear that physicians are debating the potential benefits and risks of drugs,” Dr. Colman wrote via e-mail on Tuesday.

    An F.D.A. advisory committee had voted 12-4 in favor of expanding the usage in December, with some dissenters questioning the value of the test measuring elevated levels of inflammation.

    The new Crestor guidelines continue a steady expansion of the number of people considered candidates for statins over the last decade. The recommendations and guidelines have been expanded by various advisory panels — many of whose members have also done paid consulting work for the drug industry.

    Another of those panels is now preparing statin guidelines due next year, which are expected to further expand the number of candidates for the drugs.

    The clinical trial on which the F.D.A. approved the new Crestor use was a global study of nearly 18,000 people. It looked only at patients who had low cholesterol and an elevated level of inflammation in the body as measured by a test called high-sensitivity C-reactive protein, or CRP.

    It was the inventor of the CRP test, Dr. Paul M. Ridker, a Harvard medical professor and cardiologist at Brigham and Women’s Hospital in Boston, who persuaded AstraZeneca to pay for the statin study, which he then led.

    Dr. Ridker said his proposals for such a study had been turned down by the National Institutes of Health and at least two other companies. One was Pfizer, whose statin Lipitor will lose patent protection next year and will be sold in inexpensive generic forms. The other was Bayer, whose statin Baycol was removed from the market in 2001 after it was linked to 52 deaths from a rare muscle disorder.

    Now that’s it’s FDA approved I think they should trial it by having each FDA member take 80mg of Crestor daily for two years, along with all CDC members and everyone working for the Pharmaceutical company. If it’s really good for healthy people, they should walk the talk. The doctor who led the CRP study should get at least 160mg a day as it should really be good for him.

  34. Confused in NJ says:

    All Teachers need to do two years in Afghanistan, so they can be grounded in reality.

  35. John says:

    Bond of the day!
    EASTMAN KODAK CO SR NT 9.20000% 06/01/2021
    Price (Ask) 93.500
    Yield to Maturity 10.184563%

    First time in life I am recommending a bond I bought at 62 back in 2009 at 93. Bottom line they have more cash then debt so BK is impossible.

    Remember my crazy GS IPO converstation.

    Well number 2 SS&C hits the mkt in 30 minutes lets see if GS is 2 for 2!

    Well I guess till spring buying season, tax credit and mbs purchases are done RE is a boring topic. Can’t wait till see what non propped up RE looks like come winter 2010/2011

  36. Mr Hyde says:


    Any affordability index that is based on interest rate such as the one used by NAR is very misleading. In periods of low price:income periods and high interest rates, such an index would say that affordability is low. In periods of high price:income and low rates such as 2007, interest rate based affordability indicies such as the one used by the NAR show very high affordability. That is blatantly misleading at best.

  37. njescapee says:

    Wall Street is driving up oil prices
    Demand is down, supplies are up — but crude still rises
    By John W. Schoen
    Senior producer
    updated 8:18 a.m. ET, Wed., March. 31, 2010

    Oil prices have steadily rose over the last year, and experts are worrying further increases could snuff out an already-fragile global economic recovery.

    President Barack Obama is expected to announce Wednesday his plan to open oil and natural gas drilling off the Atlantic Coast and Gulf of Mexico. The proposal aims to reduce the nation’s reliance on foreign oil, which theoretically could hold down prices for U.S. consumers.

    OPEC countries also are convening in Mexico this week to map out a strategy for keeping prices from rising higher.

    But officials may face an even bigger problem: The recent rise in prices seems to be driven by Wall Street investors — not market supply and demand.

    Though prices crashed from their peak of $140 a barrel before the recession began in December 2007, they have since recovered substantially. Last year, the price of crude fell to $33 a barrel before a relentless recovery to about $80 by year-end.

    Prices at the pump have been following the same upward path — from $1.84 in January 2009 to $2.67 by year end.

    The upward trend has continued, and oil watchers at Wall Street banks are betting crude will eventually trade above $90 a barrel this year. Part of the reason, the thinking goes, is that as the global economy recovers so will demand for oil and gasoline.

    “Overall, U.S. oil demand is definitely improving, laying the foundations for a broad-based recovery … notwithstanding the weakness in Europe,” Barclays Capital said in a recent report. “We continue to see oil prices consolidating in its current $75 to $85 range and on course to gradually move higher to $80 to $90.”

    But wait a minute. If the global economy is using less oil, and supplies are more than adequate, why are oil prices at $80 a barrel in the first place?

    The answer, according to oil analyst Peter Beutel at Cameron Hanover, is that investors are driving the price of oil — not the people who use it.

    “The sovereign wealth funds, college foundations, union pension plans — all this big vested money has been sold on the idea that your investment portfolio is not complete without 10 percent in commodities,” Beutel said.

    That’s not what was supposed to happen when gasoline prices surged and drivers cut back on trips to the pump by traveling fewer miles or upgrading to more fuel-efficient vehicles.

    Those conservation efforts — along with a big drop in economic activity — have had the desired effect of driving down gasoline consumption.

    After peaking at nearly 9.8 million barrels a day in August 2007, demand for gasoline has fallen steadily to a low of 8.5 million barrels day in February 2010 — a drop of 13 percent. But in the past 12 months, pump prices have increased more than 50 percent and oil prices have more than doubled.

    “People are using oil as a store of value rather than as a commodity,” Beutel said. “It’s the investors who are buying.”

    Wall Street has been urging investors to snap up oil for several reasons. The huge flood of money into the financial system since the September 2008 meltdown has sparked fears that inflation — though currently tame — may be ignited by too much money chasing too few goods. Worries about rising U.S. borrowing have some investors concerned about the long-term value of the dollar; oil is seen as a hedge against future dollar losses.

    All of which has turned oil into a hot financial instrument — even as demand for industrial uses remains tame, Beutel said.

    “At this particular moment, decisions made by [Fed chief] Ben Bernanke on interest rates seem to have more of an influence on the price of oil than decisions by made Saudi oil minister Ali al-Naimi — which is a very peculiar situation,” he said.

    That peculiar situation is one of the issues OPEC officials are wrestling with this week at a meeting in Mexico as they try to figure out what to do if oil prices keep moving higher. Much of the discussion focused on how high to let oil price go before increasing production to try to dampen the ongoing rise.

    “Prices above $85 for a sustained period of time could well be harmful,” one OPEC delegate told Reuters. “We have to be aware that the economic recovery is still fragile.”

    But there are signs the cartel’s 11 oil producers have already begun increasing supply, which was up by 200,000 barrels per day in March.

    Compliance with supply curbs agreed to in December 2008 has fallen to about 50 percent, according to a Reuters survey.

    There’s no shortage of oil inventories, which are above their five-year average and have been rising steadily in the past three months. Gasoline stocks are also well above their five-year average for this time of year.

    But that hasn’t helped at the pump.

    Beutel estimates that, after oil prices crashed last year, American consumers saved some $117 billion at the pump compared to what they spent in 2008. But with prices rising again, American drivers paid $20.2 billion more to fill up in the January and February than they did in the in the first two months of 2009. At that rate, consumers will take a $100 billion hit in 2010 just from higher gas prices.

    “Higher oil prices — even oil prices at existing levels — represent a tax on the American consumer at absolutely the worst possible time when we’re trying to fight our way out of a recession,” Beutel said.

    Higher oil prices typically encourage oil producers to bring more supply to market, and that appears to be happening. OPEC Secretary General Abdalla Salem El-Badri said this week that the cartel will bring an estimated $45 billion worth of drilling projects back on line which had been shelved after oil prices fell.

    But, as long as investor demand remains strong, that extra supply may do little to dampen prices.

    “We would still be producing plenty of oil at $50 and give consumers a reasonable relief that would allow this economy to grow much more substantially and put us on a much firmer footing,” Beutel said.

    © 2010 msnbc.com Reprints

  38. NJGator says:

    Bergen, Passaic teacher unions balk at N.J. Gov. Christie’s pay freeze plan


    According to a recent New Jersey School Board Association survey of 322, or 55 percent of, school districts in the state:

    — 93 percent indicate that they will lay off staff, most say the layoffs will involve teachers.

    — 60 percent indicate staff reductions will translate to education program cuts.

    — 67 percent will cut extracurricular activities, such as sports, band and clubs.

    Teaneck’s proposed budget, for instance, calls for about 22 layoffs, program cuts and a 10 percent increase in the tax levy. If that budget is rejected by the voters, as many as 80 jobs could be on the chopping block, said Board President Henry Pruitt. The average teacher salary in Teaneck is $72,000

    “Everything is on the table,” Pruitt said. “We’re talking to everybody with an eye toward saving.”

    Still, the board last week inked a contract that will pay the district’s new superintendent $230,000 a year. “We had to work hard to get this person to accept that salary,” said Pruitt. “There are other towns in Bergen County that pay more.”

  39. Mocha says:

    #36. Maybe I’m reading the chart wrong but that doesn’t seem to be the case regarding affordability circa 2007

  40. relo says:

    8: I marvel at your lack of reading comprehension.

  41. freedy says:

    230k for a super are they worth it? i don’t
    think so. Its all for the children

  42. Outofstater says:

    #38 If the taxpayers don’t win this fight against the NJEA, there is no hope. You might as well just pack up and leave.

  43. Juice Springsteen HEHEHE says:

    “Re. education and politics = corruption.”

    It’s one of the big three sources of graft in every municipality: Schools, municipal jobs, and public housing.

  44. RentinginNJ says:

    housing having permanently become a speculative asset…You know, I usually just call someone an asshole when they try to pull the ol’ “paradigm shift” BS, but I really wonder about this one.

    Can it really be a speculative asset with a more normal lending practices? It’s easy to speculate on housing with nothing down and prices going up 15% per year, but with 20% down and more normal levels of appreciation, the opportunity and carrying costs will crush you. Also, interest rates are low, so you no longer have the “affordability driven” appreciation caused by falling rates.

    That being said, I wouldn’t be surprised to see speculators trying to pick the bottom, but I just can’t see it being a speculative asset in the long term.

  45. Happy Daze says:

    Mmmmm… double dip…
    now I think I’ll have to get some ice cream at lunchtime…
    of course it will be the most appropriate flavor: “Rocky Road”

  46. JoeR says:

    RE: NJEA

    Stu/Gator might be interested in this. I was reading over at their local montclair website that Christie said in a speech that the head of the NJEA raked in 550K. Some were outraged, but many questioned that figure and said that it wasn’t true – some were saying that he made closer to 270K, etc.

    So….since people keep asking about where the 550K figure comes from. Has anyone looked at the NJEA’s tax return?

    Here is a link from the 2007 calendar year. I do not have anything more current, but would figure that he probably makes more now than 2007 since salaries never go down.


    I’m not an accountant, so can’t comment on the complete filing, but it looks to me like Giordano brought in $421,615 in regular compensation and $128,508 in deferred compensation. If you add the two figures together, you get $550,123. This is only from the NJEA and not from any other positions that he might hold.

    The president, Powell, brought in $330K. The VP and Secretary brought in $222K.

    They make a good chunk of change. They also run their organization like a public entity:

    ACCRUED VACATION SICK PAY 3,893,230 / 4,317,317 ($424,087 for the year)

    DEFERRED COMPENSATION 305,204 / 274,130 (-$31,074)

    ACCRUED POSTRETIREMENT BENEFITS 39,611,767 / 46,964,241 ($7,352,474 for the year)

    ACCRUED PENSION COST 12,466,574 / 18,084,099 ($5,617,525 for the year)

    I’m not savy enough to figure out if they have the cash stashed away to pay out these huge benefits when the time comes, but it seems like there’s a big gravy train at the NJEA….this is why they fight tough to keep their members happy and the fees rolling in…so they can keep lining their pockets.

    Their returns are actually prepared in Pennsylvania(!) Way to go by spending out of state.

  47. Happy Daze says:

    26 pricedOut

    I saw that The Cartel will be playing on April 21 in the Clearview cinemas in Hoboken.
    If it’s raining, bring a dinghy.

  48. Painhrtz says:

    Joe and that is the only way tax payers will win the fight. By exposing the graft corruption and sweatheart deals these leaches get. It is not the teachers in the trenches it is the hangers on and additional staff costs.

    If you offer each teacher with 5 years experience an 80K job but they have to pay some of their health insurance, a 401K, 5 year contract, plus a tax break, say 1.5% off the state income tax with the caveat they have to leave the union for the duration of their contract. Contract up for review Most would probably grab it. No union dues higher pay lower taxes and job security. Removes bad teachers rewards good ones and they are compensated fairly. You can also then use the proposed legislation to move to county administrations. Elimate those slugs through centralizationa dn we all benifit tax wise.

    Never happen those learned lemmings in the NJEA are for the children after all.

  49. Juice Springsteen HEHEHE says:

    “I saw that The Cartel will be playing on April 21 in the Clearview cinemas in Hoboken.”

    Does Carmelo Garcia know about that? He’s likely to call in a bomb threat:)

  50. RentinginNJ says:

    teachers all over the radio this am, telling us what a bad man Chris is. Will NJ ever be able to overcome these teachers, cops, fire,muni overpayments.

    Actually, for the first time that I can remember, I’m optimistic about dealing with the public sector in NJ. I feel like the myth of the underpaid & overworked blue-collar, “just trying to make a difference” public servant has finally been shattered.

    A few years ago, I can remember that a common woe about high housing prices was “where are these poor police officers and teachers going to live?”

    For the first time tat I can remember, I see people pushing back on the public sector and realizing what a good deal the public sector has. I’m not sure you can put the cat back in the bag at this point.

  51. Mr Hyde says:


    NAR says that their HAI was at about 111 in 2007. Perhaps the greatest RE bubble in the history of the US and they claim HAI was above 100?

    It was per their calculation, but once again highly misleading numbers.

    per NAR a HAI of 100 or greater suggests that the median home is “affordablr” to the median family.

    In 2007 the median home was 5-7 times the income of the median family which is through the roof. a “safe” level is homes at 2-4 times the median income

  52. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [30] Al,

    IMHO, state pensions are one of the largest fault lines in our current crisis.

    We have heard secession talk, and in my view, it has been fringe spouting. There have been some half-serious efforts at academic discussion, but it has largely been blather that we can safely ignore.

    But if Obama moves to bail out a state pension system, I can easily foresee that secession talk will take a serious tone, meaning that state legislators in some states will be openly advocating it, or at least a serious exploration of it, especially if there is a wave of sentiment in that direction.

    With that sort of momentum, it will take more friction to slow that ball down down than is customary. It may even be enough to get Obama to back down, especially when the markets react to the idea (and it won’t be a bullish reaction).

    So I put federal bailout of state pension fund at or near the top of my list of events that tell me to pile into shiny and short the fcuk out of the market.

  53. Mr Hyde says:

    what happened to the recovery?

    ADP’s private employment report came in negative, down 23,000.

  54. John says:

    It is a recovery in stocks not jobs, just more dead wood being trimmed, profits are going to soar.

    Mr Hyde says:
    March 31, 2010 at 10:14 am
    what happened to the recovery?

    ADP’s private employment report came in negative, down 23,000.

  55. Mr Hyde says:


    if their all dead wood, when do we fire up the ovens?

  56. veto that - Lawrence Yun says:

    This is from politifax, which i find highly entertaining. Thought you all would enjoy this snipet describing the governor.

    OVERVIEW. We’ve been doing this for almost 13 years, through the
    tenures of no fewer than eight governors. (that includes John Bennett and John Farmer.) And what’s different about the current Governor is
    not only that he has picked so many fights in so little time but also that he has done so with such unmitigated enthusiasm. So far, though, he’s holding
    onto public support, although by a narrower margin than a month ago. A
    new Fairleigh Dickinson Public Mind Poll gives him a 43-32 job approval
    (down from 52-21), 38-39 favorables (down from 47-25), and 40-30 support
    for his budget.

    THE NJEA. Right now the biggest gubernatorial battle is with the teachers union. As in everything, there are two sides to this. The Governor’s side — slash school aid and have teachers agree to a salary freeze and pay for some part of their health benefits to make up the difference or to avoid layoffs — sounds good in a sound bite: “If it’s all about the children, then step up to the plate.” The teachers’ side — the danger of opening up a contract, the complexities of salary scales, the sanctity of tenure — resonates less well,
    so they warn of “class warfare” and an “assault on the middle class” because
    the Administration won’t reinstate the millionaire’s tax. It doesn’t help the
    teachers’ cause that they took a day off to picket in Trenton. It does help the Governor’s that he suggested additional state aid for districts that adopt a salary freeze. (A nod to Upendra Chivukula, who submitted a bill to do away with local school districts and run education at the county level.)
    THE SIDESHOW. Some times we suspect that the Governor gets into rhetorical exchanges with people just to hone his skills for the big battles.
    “Tag you’re it,” he told Budget Chairman Paul Sarlo in the argument over
    repeal of the Bergen blue laws, to which Sarlo shot back that the Governor
    “continues to choose combativeness over collegiality.” Oh well, the Governor
    needs only four Senate Democrats to get what he wants.

    THE BIG ONES. Looming on the horizon are two battles: Proposition 2
    1/2, by legislation this year and by constitutional amendment next, and reinstatement of the income tax surcharge on those earning more than $400,000, which Steve Sweeney and Sheila Oliver support. That one’s going to be fun.

  57. Juice Springsteen HEHEHE says:

    “It is a recovery in stocks not jobs, just more dead wood being trimmed, profits are going to soar.”

    Yeah, that’s not baked in already:)

  58. Juice Box says:

    Drill baby drill, and who said Obama wasn’t SUV or Energy Business friendly?

    Anyone who thinks it is the speculators driving up prices in oil has not been paying attention.

    Check out what is going on south of the border. Pemex’s Cantarell field production peaked seven years ago at 2.2 million barrels a day. Today the field struggles to produce a quarter of that.

    And now I drink your milkshake comes to mind.

    Over in the Middle East the new US Strategic Reserve is starting to produce about 2.5 million barrels a day.

    Much more oil will be coming in from Iraq as well thanks to the American forces and the US taxpayers. Plans are to ramp up production to a whopping 12 million barrels a day ASAP.

    101st Airborne Division guards the Oil ministry in Iraq, Balad air base is the second busiest airport in the world from where our squadrons of F-16’s can streak across Iraq’s 227,000 square miles in about 15 minutes to drop a few 500lb GBU-54s on the insurgents and the US forces are spread out in permanent bases to guard the pipelines and fields while the cities are walled off to keep the populace in check.

    There are your fruits of war.

  59. Mikeinwaiting says:

    Ket 31,32,36 preaching to the choir I’m with you as you know. My outlook is a little biased as my area is getting crushed. Being so far out there my call is inline with yours is a safe bet. I can already get a 300k peak house for 150k. But go figure saw a new listing today for a bi level at 325k that was a reach at the top of the market. The dichotomy in prices for similar homes is astounding.

  60. veto that - Lawrence Yun says:

    From grims cnbc article…

    “one train of thought says let the housing market become truly ‘free’.”

    “There is the idea of just letting housing prices fall on their own without any help on any level,” says Capital Economics’ Dales. “It’s the ‘lets just get it over and done with’ feeling. There would be more short term pain and I mean pain. But it might be quicker to get prices back to normal.”

  61. veto that - Lawrence Yun says:

    “You know, I usually just call someone an asshole when they try to pull the ol’ “paradigm shift” BS, but I really wonder about this one.”

    Grim, #1 – good point.
    It makes sense. Look at china. they are buying condos and real estate not to live in or rent-out but as a replacement for gold (or any other commodity) – pure investment.

    That kind of mentality changes things and is another reason why past price performance will tell us little about future performance imo.

  62. veto that - Lawrence Yun says:

    “Heard on the news this morning that the housing crisis is over. home prices have risen each of the last nine months.”

    ww4Beer, The only thing they could be refering to is the improvement in yoy price changes which has been declining at a decreasing rate.
    Other than that, prices in NY/NJ and the 10 city national average are down down down (with a little stability mixed in there).

  63. relo says:

    50. This was a common lament in FL. Careful what you wish for, eh?

    A few years ago, I can remember that a common woe about high housing prices was “where are these poor police officers and teachers going to live?”

  64. Mikeinwaiting says:

    Juice 59 That was the plan.

  65. All "H-Train" Hype says:

    Juice 58:

    Met a oil/gas engineer flying over to the UK a few weeks ago. He says no one wants to work in Iraq (go figure) so the salaries for the people have skyrocketed up. Once you get in the oil facilities you cannot move from 1 building to another without an Blackwater escort. Lots and lots of snipers over there.

    He did say that due to war/sanctions/Sadam’s greedimess that the facilities are 20 years behind the times. He also said the oil fields around Basra are quite rich.

  66. Final Doom says:

    gator (18)-

    Can’t fix stupid.

    BTW, I have absolutely no sympathy for people who buy houses in known flood zones. Give ’em one insurance payout, then bulldoze the houses.

    Problem solved.

  67. Mr Hyde says:

    Veto 61

    How is the chinese RE bubble behavior we are seeing significantly different from what was going on in the US circa 04-06?

    I have no idea how long china can play the propped up bubble game, but their RE bubble is way bigger then ours ever was and is fueled on the idea of a continued of growth rate of 10+%.

    They already have entire empty cities that have been built simply as RE investment. Unlike commodities housing does not have an intrinsic value in the same way that oil/gold/crops might. Its also not nearly as liquid.

    I have no doubt the chinese will try to put a floor under their bubble as well and will be able to delay reality for a while. But for how long i have no idea.

  68. Nicholas says:

    I don’t know if you guys saw this article. I am patiently awaiting the removal of the tax credit for home buying. We will see another step down in housing markets when this thing is over.

    Sorry if this is a repost from two months ago.


    No more extensions of tax credit for first-time home buyers

    The provision that puts up to $8,000 in buyers’ pockets won’t be renewed a third time, industry leaders and lawmakers say.
    HOUSING SCENEDecember 27, 2009|By Lew Sichelman
    Reporting from Washington — Home buyers hoping to take advantage of a new or extended tax credit should not procrastinate: This third bite at the apple will be the last.

    Proponents of the $8,000 credit for first-time buyers and the $6,500 credit for move-up buyers made it clear during the debate on Capitol Hill that the benefits would not be renewed when they expire. And a lobbyist for the National Assn. of Realtors confirmed that at the group’s annual convention last month.

  69. Mr Hyde says:


    We should ban federal flood insurance. If you want to live in a flood plan or hurricane zone, pay the full cost of living there.

  70. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    Seems that this congressman’s constituents have been reading the health care bill, and they have a lot of questions:


    Seems that there are a whole bunch of goodies in this bill that we just haven’t heard anything about in the media. If true, then this bill has become Porkulus II.

  71. veto that - Lawrence Yun says:

    “I see Deutsche bank is close to my target of a 50% drop off of peak…”

    Hyde, You are on record with a 57% drop from peak.

    i find it interesting that Deutsche Bank has changed their forecast from last year when they said prices would come down another 40% in ny area and now they are only saying another 20%.
    Thats a big adjustment.

    (note: DB fired the analyst at the end of 2009 who created the report calling for the extra 40%)


  72. veto that - Lawrence Yun says:

    “How is the chinese RE bubble behavior we are seeing significantly different from what was going on in the US circa 04-06?”

    hyde – I dont really know but i think china has built too much supply per demand yet they dont have many other investment options – whereas the argument in the us during 2004-06 was that there was too little supply and so prices must continue to skyrocket.
    Not sure though. this is just a total guess.

  73. chicagofinance says:

    WTF is this? I thought you were the jolly Jew ex-jock standing on the hill admiring how great you are? When did you start swigging the kettle1?

    Essex says:
    March 31, 2010 at 6:34 am
    s we watch the country continue it’s sniping and the various moronic talking heads that seem to capture the nation’s fancy. Europe seems more and more appealing. Even Canada looks good. I’m simply tired of watching the corrupt and misguided forces tug at each other. Politics and special interest have crushed this nation.

  74. veto that - Lawrence Yun says:

    U.S. Standard of Living Unsustainable Without Drastic Action, Former Top Govt. Accountant Says

    Posted Mar 31, 2010

    President Obama might have signed the health-care reform bill into law last week, but the debate rages on. Opponents are gearing up for another attack on the the bill, partly because many of its provisions will be phased in slowly.

    But the outrage over health-care really isn’t about the actual bill, says our guest David Walker, former U.S. Comptroller General and head of the Government Accountability Office. “It was really more about the fact that government is out of touch and out of control.”

    Who will bail out America? A longtime budget hawk and currently CEO of the Peter G. Peterson Foundation, Walker says America’s growing long-term debt is dangerously close to passing a “tipping point” that could trigger soaring interest rates and a plummeting dollar. In a worst case scenario, that could trigger a “global depression,” he says, warning: “Nobody’s going to bail out America.”

    With the U.S. facing $50 trillion in unfunded liabilities and around $62 trillion in total long-term debt, what worries Walker most is what happens after the recession dissipates, as detailed here. “I’m less concerned with the short-term deficits than I am the fact that we’re not doing anything about those structural deficits that people used to call long-term,” he says. “But the long-term is here.”

    What’s ultimately at stake may be nothing short of Americans’ faith in government and our standard of living. “There is a way forward. There is hope,” Walker says. “But we need to actually make some tough choices.”

    Walker, author of a new book, “Comeback America,” argues the U.S. needs to tackle four key issues if the nation wants to recover:

    Impose tough budget limits
    Reform Social Security
    Cut health-care costs
    Reform the U.S. tax system

  75. Mr Hyde says:


    I still stand by that number. Dont worry, i am a patient fellow. Give DB a few more quarters, another fired analyst and they will come to my projection. ;)

  76. Al "The Thermostat" Gore says:



    I agree. I think China is in a vulnerable spot moving forward. If they get sucked into the coming war with Iran they could find themselves on the losing end.

  77. njescapee says:

    U.S. Navy’s ‘death star’ warship arrives in Key West

    Read more: http://www.miamiherald.com/2010/03/31/1555938/us-navys-newest-combat-ship-arrives.html#ixzz0jlagLQQj

  78. Juice Box says:

    re #65 – Hype – Plenty of Chinese contractors will start working the fields in Iraq. BP and its Chinese partner CNPC were just awarded a contract in the giant Rumaila oilfield.

    BP will supply the bribes and CNPC will supply the cannon fodder laborers.

    FYI CNPC is not restricted like US Oil companies from doing business anywhere, and they aren’t restricted from bribing the Axis of Evil either. They do lots of oil field work today in Azerbaijan, Canada, Kazakhstan, Venezuela, Sudan, Indonesia, Iraq, and Iran. All labor is imported from China. If a laborer takes a round from a sniper there are 10 more brought in to take his place if need be.

  79. chicagofinance says:

    yo: the ironic thing is that there is no net “credit”; once there is public knowledge of the credit, you will find that in order to close on a house, you will need to pay (on average) the amount of the credit MORE; so in reality the buyer is neutral (on average) and the public is handing a subsidy to sellers….and creating volume for the NAR…

    yo’me says:
    March 31, 2010 at 8:05 am
    I think the game is psychological.The ones that are going to buy are waiting for the prices to come down,did it reached bottom?Interest rates going up?The $8500 credit is icing in the pie.It is not what makes the decision.

  80. veto that - Lawrence Yun says:

    “President Barack Obama is expected to announce Wednesday his plan to open oil and natural gas drilling off the Atlantic Coast and Gulf of Mexico. The proposal aims to reduce the nation’s reliance on foreign oil, which theoretically could hold down prices for U.S. consumers.”

    Great idea.

  81. freedy says:

    any names for the rest stops on the NJ turnpike yet?

  82. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [74] veto

    Walker is a sound, reasoned, articulate person, who seems to have a great deal of clarity on this issue.

    Now I will fire up my Plume-o-meter to assess the likelihood of his projected fixes:

    Impose tough budget limits — Not gonna happen.
    Reform Social Security — not gonna happen.
    Cut health-care costs — not gonna happen.
    Reform the U.S. tax system — not gonna happen.

    There, that was easy. Thus, I see clearly that Walker’s goal is to put out reasoned responses that have no chance of success, write a book, hope it sells, pocket the cash, and invest in shiny and a nompound.

    Damn, I gotta write a book.

  83. Al "The Thermostat" Gore says:


    This is an interesting read about what happened at the CFTC last week with references.

    “Oh, and one final thing. Remember the supposed 190 tonnes of IMF gold that the Cartel keeps trying to use as a tool to strategically attack the price of paper gold with (by continuing to threaten to dump it on the market). Well it looks like late Friday afternoon one of the world’s premier gold investors, Eric Sprott of Canada, made a bid for it and was refused (see below). Personally, I don’t believe the gold exists, and that the other 212 tonnes bought late last year by India, Sri Lanka, and Mauritius amounted to nothing more than an accounting book entry. But even if it does exist (a piddling $6 billion worth, by the way, as much debt as the U.S. incurs in a few hours), it obviously won’t be sold at these prices.”

  84. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [80] veto

    That was the carrot. Now look for the stick in the form of cap and trade legislation.

  85. Essex says:

    73. I am a little bi-polar….so sue me.

  86. Essex says:

    Hey…fascinating stuff today boys. Love the accounting talk re Njea

  87. veto that - Lawrence Yun says:

    Nom, I’m probably naive for saying this but I think we will adress all of those things in one form or another. Especially under the pressure of a national bk or some of the other dire alternatives. There is a self correcting mechanism in there somewhere, but it wont kick in fully intil the iceburg is in clear site.

  88. Mr Hyde says:


    There is a self correcting mechanism in there somewhere,


  89. yo'me says:

    (Reuters) – Goodbye, Federal Reserve. Hello Fannie and Freddie.

    Housing Market

    With the Federal Reserve ending its 15-month $1.25 trillion mortgage bond buying binge on Wednesday, delinquent loan buyouts by Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac could serve as the saving grace for the $5 trillion agency mortgage-backed securities market.

    The paydowns from these buyouts will put billions into the hands of mortgage investors for reinvestment and significantly reduce supply, mitigating the massive void the central bank will leave behind and helping keep yield spreads near record tights.

    That is good news for the U.S. housing market since it should keep mortgage rates, which are linked to yields on Treasuries and yields on mortgage-backed securities, at historically low levels.

    The timing is everything as the housing market enters its most important period — the spring selling season — and struggles to regain its old self as data shows growth has been anything but resurgent.

    The delinquent loan buyouts of $200 billion by Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, first announced in February, will put about $140 billion of cash into private investors’ hands, according to Matthew Jozoff, managing director and head of mortgage strategy at JPMorgan in New York.

    At the same time, these buyouts will remove about $200 billion of net supply from the market, his team said.

    “This ‘double-whammy’ is powerful, and effectively extends the Fed involvement several months from their official end date,” they said.


    The Federal Reserve has plowed billions per week into the agency MBS market since early 2009 in an effort to bring down mortgage rates and to stimulate the battered housing sector and the overall economy.

    “The (Fannie and Freddie) buyouts should help take supply out of the marketplace, so in our view, the technicals have lined up to make the Fed exit go smoother than otherwise would have been expected,” said Joe Ramos, lead portfolio manager on the U.S. fixed income team at Lazard Asset Management in New York.

    “While reinvestments from paydowns will not be big enough to fully offset the buying by the Fed, it should help keep prices firm,” he said.

    Mortgage rates play a crucial role in housing affordability. February home sales data points to a sector that has hit a lull after showing signs of a recovery late last year. New home sales fell for a fourth straight month, reaching a record low, while existing home sales fell for a third straight month.

    Interest rates on 30-year fixed-rate mortgages, currently around 5 percent, will probably drift higher throughout 2010, ending the year at over 5.5 percent, according to Mark Zandi, chief economist at Moody’s Economy.com, in West Chester, Pennsylvania.

    “The current 5 percent fixed rate has been key to keeping the housing market together as well as it has been kept together,” he said. “That the housing market is so weak despite the low rates suggests how strong the headwinds are to the housing market, including the tough job market, tougher underwriting standards, and the ongoing foreclosure crisis.”

    Mortgage rates will likely be buffered over the next few months as the majority of the paydowns get reinvested, but investors will also likely keep some cash as well, according to Janaki Rao, vice president of mortgage research at Morgan Stanley in New York.

    “The initial reaction to the buyout news indicated a rush toward the lower coupons as investors rushed to safeguard against faster prepays,” he said.

    While reinvestments are certainly a strong positive for agency MBS, a confluence of other factors should keep agency MBS firm as well. A buildup of cash, solid deposits and weak loan growth should foster strong bank demand for agency MBS going forward.

    Furthermore, many money managers who were underweighted the sector for much of the past year amid lofty valuations are expected to buy on even modest cheapening. That, coupled with low supply, will offset the Federal Reserve’s absence from the agency MBS market.

    “We do not see things changing in a major way, perhaps 10 to 20 basis points of widening without demand from the Fed,” Lazard’s Ramos said.

    “Demand from asset managers will likely have the largest impact on prices after the Fed exit,” he said

  90. relo says:

    77: Uh oh, wait ’til Larry Ellison sees that.

  91. veto that - Lawrence Yun says:

    88 – ha ha. maybe so.
    But ww3 becomes difficult when everyone has advanced nukes.

    I think you are right that it will be something that doesnt seem like an option yet.

  92. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [87] veto

    That’s the problem. Heck, I agree it will get “resolved somehow” but we may not much like the resolution.

    The wolves have backed us against the cliff, and our only hope is that we suddenly learn how to rock-climb, or the wolves suddenly all die of old age.

  93. Final Doom says:

    yo (89)-

    Too bad the brainiacs don’t understand that THERE’S NO FCUKING DEMAND.

  94. Mr Hyde says:

    Veto 90

    Not really. A limited nuclear exchange is possible and even a larger exchange, while messy is not a doomsday event.

    I could see an event along the lines of iran or china nuking an american naval force and the US responds by nuking the opposing nuclear sites and 1 or 2 military targets of value. Both sides agree to stick to conventional weapons there after.

    civilian population centers have been left out of the firing line and its a simpler situation politically.

  95. veto that - Lawrence Yun says:

    95 – we should just place 10 giant nukes into the core of the earth and threaten to press the button if other countries dont meet our long list of demands.

  96. relo says:

    79: This increases the price of the put (walk away) option to the buyer by < 20% of the subsidy, (then ultimately downstream 100 % to us upon lender/deadbeat bailout).

  97. veto that - Lawrence Yun says:

    i meant 94.
    did not mean to have a two way convo with myself.

  98. yo'me says:

    Even while the recent surge in yields has unsettled parts of the stock and bond markets, fixed-income money managers like Pacific Investment Management Co, or PIMCO, Vanguard Group and TCW are mainly unfazed as the selloff could soon result in some enticing bargains.

    “If mortgage-backed securities were 20 basis points wider tomorrow, I assure you they wouldn’t be there for long because everybody would try to buy them,” said Scott Simon, head of mortgage- and asset-backed securities at Newport Beach, California-based PIMCO, which oversees more than $1 trillion.


  99. jcer says:

    A war is an interesting prospect, but any country looking to start a conventional war with the US is bat sh*t crazy. We have a huge standing army with very effective training and a large cache of crazy weapons. Nobody comes close to our investment and the countries with the technology largely are our allies. Russia is a wild card but their interest is really in selling weapons. I don’t think China would attempt it leaving only Iran or North Korea and I don’t know who would back them up.

  100. Mr Hyde says:


    nice try, find a better plan. the core may be a fission reactor anyway per some theories.

    Did you watch “The Core” last night?

    try one of these instead

  101. Mr Hyde says:


    WWI…. a series of alliances/interests tied together with the right spark could have messy results.

  102. Anon E. Moose says:


    Your statement is too simple. There’s no demand at peak prices. Every fit or spurt of demand on the way down has been accompanied by measurable price declines, or governement cheese like the knife-catcher credit (which I confidently state is Forever on the Installment Plan™, aka ‘Let’s extend it just one more time…”).

  103. veto that - Lawrence Yun says:

    “but any country looking to start a conventional war with the US is bat sh*t crazy.”

    jcer, true but lump russia, china, iran and nkorea together and all of the sudden its a more even match.

  104. WHYoung says:

    #18 – “They’re interviewing a woman from Lincoln who’s wearing hip waders to walk back to her home for the 2nd time in a month and she starts saying that the government has to ‘fix the river’. Because obviously the problem is ‘the river’ and not the fact that she was dumb enough to buy a house right on top of it.”

    Rebuilding in a flood prone zone should be prohibited – and flood insurance used no more than ONCE for relocation, not rebuilding.

    And anyone who thinks the government can “fix the river” hasn’t been paying attention to things like Katrina.

    Natural flood plains are obvious parts of the landscape and there for a reason.

  105. veto that - Lawrence Yun says:

    Check out the cover stories from the local princeton rag…


  106. Mr Hyde says:


    The government “fixed” the Mississippi river and it caused a massive number of unexpected consequences including the loss of wetlands around New Orleans that have historically buffered it from hurricanes.

    messing with complex natural systems to solve a social problem is a very bad idea.

  107. Mr Hyde says:

    Veto, Jcer

    here is a little scenario for you:

    NK finally goes 100% batshit crazy and levels south korea in about 2 hours (not to far from reality). The US intervenes and china then grabs Taiwan while we are busy with NK.

    You could then easily draw in pakistan, india and the middle east.

    You could also spark a global conflict with parkistan and india going at each other. A few well planned assassinations or bombings could set those 2 nations off and both are nuclear.

    These scenarios may be off, but the point is that there are plenty of ignition points that currently exist for a global conflict

  108. John says:

    WHYoung says:
    March 31, 2010 at 12:20 pm
    I thought Mary Todd was dead?

    #18 – “They’re interviewing a woman from Lincoln who’s wearing hip waders to walk back to her home for the 2nd time in a month and she starts saying that the government has to ‘fix the river’. Because obviously the problem is ‘the river’ and not the fact that she was dumb enough to buy a house right on top of it.”

  109. Mr Hyde says:


    If we got rid of government backed flood insurance we would depopulate florida in a few decades.

  110. njescapee says:

    Hyde, and may depopulate major portions jersey. Somerset, Passaic, Morris,

  111. DL says:

    If you want to read about an incredible education/corruption scandal, check out this story in the Philly Ink. But have a barf bag handy.


  112. relo says:

    111: Gonna go out on a limb and say there may be more involved. I’m thinking those with the supposed oversight?

    ps – It’s for the kids.

  113. relo says:

    106: They “fixed” the Everglades too. Not working out so well.

  114. Mr Hyde says:

    NJ escapee

    Talk about bag holders…. All of those “prime” water front properties become next to worthless overnight!

    let the depopulation begin!

  115. Mr Hyde says:


    And how much money have they spent trying to “unfix” the everglades?

  116. Libtard says:

    I read some reviews of “The Cartel” and apparently it is lopsided, not fact-checked and not terribly entertaining. From what I recall, it’s pretty much the Republican argument in support of charter schools and vouchers on celluloid based on the results of one study which focused on one school district. I plan to wait for it to come out on the IFC.

  117. Mr Hyde says:

    Relo, DL 111

    Butkovitz said he decided to release the findings related to Harambee after weekend news reports that a nightclub was operating in the school building on weekend nights.

  118. jcer says:

    I really don’t think Putin gets Russia into war unless he sees benefits, things aren’t bad enough and he isn’t going to fight an actual war with the US. China will b*tchslap NK if they attempt to invade South Korea, too much at stake can’t risk war, will negatively affect economy.

  119. relo says:

    116: Only a few billion. Pocket change.

  120. relo says:

    119 for 115.

  121. relo says:

    117: Ha. Fundraiser? Will have to raise this prospect at the next PTO mtg.

  122. Juice Springsteen HEHEHE says:

    cricket, cricket

  123. Painhrtz says:

    I guess the FBI finally caught up with Clot and Kettle. Guess they will be in for me soon. guess everyone is actually doing their day job today

  124. Libtard says:

    “guess everyone is actually doing their day job today”

    Nah. Everyone’s out buying homes before the MBS fed purchasing program expires.

  125. Dissident HEHEHE says:

    Yes the feds are tired of all of this one sided banter and are demanding equal time for Pret and Frank. That or an NAR hit squad caught Grim

  126. Dissident HEHEHE says:

    It’s probably my Carmelo Garcia comment. It was a joke I keed, I keed. He is on the Hoboken School Board. A great man if there ever was one. He’d never do anything like that. Jeez!!!

  127. FBI says:

    Rest easy bloggers. If you are on our list, a team will be by shortly to pick you up. Feel free to struggle. It’s more fun for us if you do.

  128. Dissident HEHEHE says:

    Is that Full Blooded Italian?

  129. Shore Guy says:

    Houses in flood zones:

    It is nuts when people build in places that regularly flood and then expect the rest of us to pay for them to rebuild in the exact same place.

    With oceanfront places, there is a reason that beach houses used to be smaller and more spartan — they can get swept to sea with a big enough storm surge. The trend towards McMansions on the beach is foolish and it destroys the look of a beach neighborhood. And, most of these cost more to rebuild than federal flood insurance provides, anyway.

  130. NJGator says:

    Shore 129 – Obviously the government should do something to fix the ocean.

  131. Shore Guy says:

    “Nah. Everyone’s out buying homes before the MBS fed purchasing program expire.”

    I hear that some agents are having a two-for-the-price-of-three sale. I am so stoked.

  132. Shore Guy says:


    It has been out of control for far too long.

  133. Shore Guy says:

    The dowside to two for the price of three is that one pays a bit more upfront. Of course, since one is only insuring and paying taxes on two houses, one saves a bundle in the long run.

    Sign here.

  134. Shore Guy says:

    ” lump russia, china, iran and nkorea together and all of the sudden its a more even match”

    Russia is not a natural enemy of the USA. We do not as a rule comperw for resources. The Cold War was a function of political philosophy running up against the Russians being sick and tired of getting invaded (going back to the Golden Horde), and taking advantage of the destruction after WWII to set up a buffer to protect the core of Russia from furure incursions.

    Once tthose who were alive during the Soviet Era have faded from the scene, we may well find ourselves able to warm up to each other.

  135. freedy says:

    ron insana sort of like dot herman,
    its all good.

  136. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [107] Mr. Hyde

    “NK finally goes 100% batshit crazy and levels south korea in about 2 hours (not to far from reality). The US intervenes and china then grabs Taiwan while we are busy with NK.”

    I was just thinking, in my best WOPR voice,


  137. Shore Guy says:


    Not all that long ago, people were freaked out over the Chinese invading Taiwan because so much of our electronics were built there. At this point, I wonder if that is true?

    PRK is THE wildcard.

  138. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [137] shore

    Now you and hyde are reminding me of the warfighting discussions we had in college. Even had a seminar over just nuclear warfighting doctrine.

  139. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    And now for the first in a random series of musings I have:

    Attend Big Blue at in-state rates!

    Have a son or daughter that wants to go to the Univ. of Michigan? Put off by those out-of-state rates?

    Let Ellery or Graydon apply as an out of state student, and get accepted. Then have them defer their enrollment for a year.

    In the meantime, buy some POS hovel in Detroit. There are lots of them, and you can probably get one for a few hundred bucks!

    Send little dearest to Detroit to volunteer in different places for a couple of weeks. That gets the name on the volunteer rosters.

    Have little dearest revive their acceptance, and put down their Detroit address, where they have been “living” for the past year, while doing volunteer work. Naturally, there’s a lease and everything.

    Also, Dearest tells UM that they went “independent” and moved out of your house over a year ago, and have been living in Michigan for the past year. Thus, they should get in-state tuition.

    Thus, you arbitrage the difference btwn in-state and out of state tuition, and your cost is the measly amount you plunked down on a hovel in Detroit.

    As for taxes, since you have no intention of keeping that POS, don’t pay them. By the time Detroit gets around to seizing your POS house, Dearest will have graduated.

  140. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [116] libtard

    “I read some reviews of “The Cartel” and apparently it is lopsided, not fact-checked and not terribly entertaining.”

    Michael Moore has another movie out?

  141. NJGator says:

    Nom 139 – Is dearest now independent? Can Graydon or Ellery now apply for financial aid based on their meager or non-existent earnings as a volunteer?

  142. Essex says:

    from the Onion. WASHINGTON—In an effort to reduce wasteful spending and eliminate non-vital federal services, the U.S. government announced plans this week to cut its long-standing senator program, a move it says will help save more than $300 billion each year.According to officials, the decision to cut the national legislative body was reached during a budget review meeting on Tuesday. After hours of deliberation, it was agreed that the cost of financing U.S. senators far outweighed the benefits they provided.”Now more than ever, we must eliminate needless spending wherever possible,” President Obama said at a press conference Wednesday. “When we sat down to go over our annual budget, we asked ourselves, where can we safely trim back? What programs can we do away with without negatively impacting the American people? Which bloated and ineffective institutions can we no longer justify having around?” …..theonion dot com

  143. crossroads says:

    rally tonight in sparta. this is from an email

    “The “theme” is “Say yes to our children by saying no to
    > Christie’s budget.” Could you spread the word? We need as many people as
    > possible there because we really need to get our legislators to rework
    > these budget cuts so our children aren’t suffering.”

  144. Mr Hyde says:

    143 crossroads.

    How about a GTG to heckle the clowns?

  145. Mr Hyde says:


    dont worry, the FBI let me go after implanting a nifty little microchip in the back of my neck.

  146. Final Doom says:

    plume (139)-

    Now you’re thinking.

  147. Essex says:

    143. Too bad I don’t have a son, I could send him to Catholick School.

  148. Al "The Thermostat" Gore says:


    Now that the US has become a communist country the Russians may warm up to us.

    What a pathetic state of affairs. WTF? did 58,000 soldiers die in Vietnam for if we were just to roll over 40 years later anyway?

  149. Al "The Thermostat" Gore says:



    Make sure you ask them how their pension fund looks. Muhahahaha! Only a fool trusts their government.

  150. bullrun says:

    Agence France-Presse
    First Posted 04:24:00 04/01/2010

    Filed Under: Explosion, Acts of terror, insurgency

    MOSCOW—Suicide bombers killed 12 people Wednesday in double strikes targeting police in Russia’s turbulent North Caucasus, shaking the country just two days after attacks in Moscow left 39 dead.

    Prime Minister Vladimir Putin said the latest attack in the North Caucasus region may be linked to the strikes on the Moscow metro by two female suicide bombers while President Dmitry Medvedev vowed not to let militants sow panic.

    Russia has for years been fighting an Islamist-fuelled insurgency in the North Caucasus but the metro bombings in the heart of Moscow, largely spared attacks for the last six years, shook the country to its core.

    Nine police including a local police chief were among the dead in the double attack 48 hours later in the North Caucasus region of Dagestan, a region on the Caspian Sea already wracked by militant violence.

    “I do not rule out that the same gang (as in Moscow) was at work here,” a stern-looking Putin told a government meeting in televised remarks.

    Medvedev meanwhile told a security council meeting that “the terrorists’ goal is the destabilization of the situation in the country, the destruction of civil society, a desire to sow fear and panic among the population.”

    “We will not allow this,” he added.

    Wednesday’s first blast was caused by a car occupied by a suicide bomber that blew up when police tried to stop it during a regular check in the town of Kizlyar in Dagestan, officials said.

    The force of the first blast left a massive crater and reduced surrounding cars to burned-out wrecks.

    After 20 minutes, another blast was caused by a second suicide bomber wearing a police uniform who approached police working at the scene of the first blast, a spokeswoman for the Dagestani interior ministry told AFP.

    Investigators said the first blast was caused by explosives of 200 kilograms of TNT equivalent stuffed into a Niva jeep, Interfax reported.

    The investigative committee of Russian prosecutors said in a statement that 12 people were killed, nine of them police, and 23 were wounded. Among the dead was local Kizlyar district police chief, Vitaly Vedernikov.

    Russia’s leaders pledged after Monday’s blasts to hunt down and destroy the organizers of the bombings who they said had links to North Caucasus militant groups.

    Muslim Dagestan has been one of the Caucasus regions most troubled by violence, along with Chechnya and Ingushetia.

    Security in the tense Russian capital was further intensified after the new attacks.

    Moscow’s police chief Vladimir Kolokoltsev said that three times as many police as usual — many of them equipped with sniffer dogs — were on patrol in the metro system.

    The head of the metro, Dmitry Gayev, said that as part of new security measures the metro would start to introduce chemical detectors at stations from April to ward off any potential chemical attacks.

    Meanwhile, police arrested dozens of opposition supporters who tried to hold an unauthorized protest near an official “anti-terror” rally held by pro-Kremlin youth groups.

    But most of the opposition supporters backed out of the planned protests after Monday’s bombings.

    Putin had Tuesday ordered security forces to snare the masterminds of the metro bombings, saying they should be scraped out from the sewers in language reminiscent of a 1999 promise to strike at rebels in the “outhouse”.

    The Kommersant daily quoted an investigation source as saying Tuesday that militants had recruited 30 potential suicide bombers in recent months, with 21 still at large after nine already blew themselves up.

    Police have also released grisly photographs of the two bombers’ severed heads. Unconfirmed reports have said they arrived in Moscow from the Caucasus by bus early Monday.

    Last month, Islamist rebels led by Chechen militant leader Doku Umarov pledged a holy war, saying attacks would be staged throughout the country.

  151. Shore Guy says:

    Finally, a step towards sanity. A federal Judge today ruled that the NSA’s warntless intercepts of U.S. citizens telecommunications is illegal and that even the president has tp obey the law. What a conceept.

    From the NY Times:

    “The ruling delivered a blow to the Bush administration’s claims that its warrantless surveillance program, which Mr. Bush secretly authorized shortly after the terrorist attacks of Sept. 11, 2001, was lawful. Under the program, the National Security Agency monitored Americans’ e-mail messages and phone calls without court approval, even though the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act, or FISA, required warrants.
    After The New York Times reported on the existence of the program in December 2005, the Bush legal team argued that it was lawful because the president’s wartime powers enabled him to override the statute. Jon Eisenberg, a lawyer represented Al Haramain, said Judge Walker’s ruling was an “implicit repudiation of the Bush-Cheney theory of executive power.”
    “Judge Walker is saying that FISA and federal statutes like it are not optional,” Mr. Eisenberg said. “The president, just like any other citizen of the United States, is bound by the law.”

  152. Shore Guy says:

    More from the Times FISA article:

    “The ruling by Judge Walker, the chief judge of the Federal District Court in San Francisco, also rejected the Justice Department’s claim – first asserted by the Bush administration and continued under President Obama – that the charity’s lawsuit should be dismissed without a ruling on the merits because allowing it to go forward could reveal state secrets.
    The judge characterized that expansive use of the so-called state-secrets privilege as amounting to “unfettered executive-branch discretion” that had “obvious potential for governmental abuse and overreaching.”
    That view, he also said, would enable government officials to flout the warrant law – even though Congress had enacted it ‘specifically to rein in and create a judicial check for executive-branch abuses of surveillance authority.'”

  153. SS says:

    Hi All,

    To make the long story short, I used to live in NJ and been following this blog for long time (can’t even recall how long). I just made an offer on a house recently, the house deed is registered under some LLC (in bankruptcy now). The guy who owned the LLC had purchased 14 properties. Anyway, the offer came back asking for more earnest deposit and more time on the contract. I was told the 1st bank is giving me 9k towards closing, but I’m wondering if there is a lien on the property and thats why I’m getting the 9k. so at closing this shit is going to blow up in my face. My agent told me that 1st bank has already approved the contract for the previous buyer (who backed out ..couldn’t wait any longer), the trustee will approve it and the 2nd bank. So when time comes for ratifying the contract, I’ll know if there are liens on the house because the 2nd bank will run a title search and disclose this information…is this all true? Is it possible that you go to closing and find out you don’t want to buy because of some tax liens etc.?

  154. Juice Box says:

    re: #153 slow wheels lately took forever for that ruling. Too bad it is going to be ignored.

  155. Shore Guy says:


    I would be wary about handing over more cash. In fact I would not. Either you have the financing or you don’t. If you do, they will have the rest soon enough, once you close. And, were it I buying the property, I would not be heading to a closing without the title being clarified.

  156. SS says:


    I will have a ratified contract, but who is going to ratify title…bank…trustee? and will I know before ratifying contract about liens? I suspect that 9k offered to me as closing cost help by 1st bank is really to help with the tax lien, second the extra cash as EMD to cover another lien..so at closing they can say…well its all paid for so whats the objection…I get to pay all closing costs

  157. Shore Guy says:

    Have you paid to have a title search done, and obtained title insurence.

  158. Shore Guy says:


  159. Shore Guy says:

    From CBS news about the flooding. I never thought of Good Friday and Easter as big drinking holidays:

    “Demetri Skalkos, co-owner of McNamara’s liquor store, said about 3 feet of water stood in the basement. He said he was worried about losing business over the traditionally busy Easter period.

    “This is the Holy Week,” he said. “If we don’t do business now, when are we going to do business?” “

  160. SS says:

    I’m not sure what you mean. I don’t have a ratified contract yet. I’m trying to figure out if the bank who is going to prove the approval will disclose to me about any outstanding liens? I have to perform my own title search and get insurance once I get a ratified contract.

  161. Roy G Biv says:

    Card carrying NJ Pensioner [PERS] the reason the pensions are so generous is that ELECTED officals also qualified for them so it was in THEIR interest to be good. When I started my gov’t job I just needed a JOB pension had nothing to do with it, but I could not refuse once it was offered after 3 months of probation !!

  162. Shore Guy says:

    Where is everyone?

  163. still_looking aka Tan-Less says:

    yeah, for real… everyone’s sleeping?


  164. Shore Guy says:

    A day away from the ED?

  165. still_looking aka Tan-Less says:

    Yep. I need time away from there…

    Trying to return to the daytime life vs being a night critter.


  166. Final Doom says:


    The title insurance that you will have to purchase in order to protect your lender’s interest in this property will reveal- way in advance of closing- any possible defects of title.

    Generally, banks will perfect title on repossessed properties before marketing them to the public.

    The concession for closing costs that they are offering you may be simply that. Say thank you, and proceed toward closing. Make sure you do a good home inspection, and I’ll bet you do just fine.

  167. Final Doom says:

    Can anybody lend me a few boxes of .223, a couple of Claymores and maybe a few MK-2’s?

    I’m feeling especially edgy.

    Had to can another agent. I really hate doing that.

  168. Final Doom says:

    Especially when the agent owes me 12K that has about the same chance of getting paid back as me running a 4-minute mile.

  169. Charles Bronson says:

    Right now I’ve got a few words for some of our brothers and sisters in the occupied zone:

    “the chair is against the wall, the chair is against the wall”, “john has a long mustache, john has a long mustache”. It’s twelve o’clock, American, another day closer to victory. And for all of you out there, on, or behind the line, this is your song.
    [the Battle Hymn of the Republic begins to play]

  170. Final Doom says:

    In perfectly pe<verse fashion, this news should batter SRS back under $6 again tomorrow.

    At which point, I will buy it yet again.

    “On top of the previously announced record delinquency rate for Fannie, here comes some even worse news out of commercial real estate, which together with record high downtown vacancy rates, should be enough to push all REITs to 1052 week highs tomorrow. RealPoint has just released its March CMBS delinquency data, according to which delinquencies hit an all time high 6%. Not to be ignored, according to TREPP this number is even worse, at nearly 8%, after the single biggest monthly spike in 30 day + delinquencies.”


  171. Lory Coloma says:

    Did you create your own blog or did a program do it? Could you please respond? 96

  172. still_looking aka Tan-Less says:
  173. morpheus says:

    well the bloodshed occured last nite:

    An attorney from our workers comp dept, the attorney who runs the PIP department and our file clerk were laid off last night. I missed the axe.

    feel guilty that I survived. Still will delay purchasing a house for at least a year, probably longer. Have to see where all this is leading.

  174. Mr hyde says:

    USA today had a blurb on tax stats this morning.

    In 1969 16% of filers owed no tax as of 2009 32% of filers owed no taxes!!!!!

  175. frank says:

    Looks like $34.8 billion of Maiden Lane ML is worth ~ $0.0


  176. Dissident HEHEHE says:


    Good to hear you survived the cut. I think everybody gets nervous end of quarter as the CFO-types decide they need to make budget and the easiest way to do that is to cut people loose.

  177. Shore Guy says:


    It is only fair, don’t you know?

  178. House Whine says:

    176- Just appreciate the paycheck while you still have it and try to let the guilt ease. Last week my old law firm laid off a few of my dear friends and the friends of mine that remain are quite deflated. I don’t understand why they are laying them off in dribs and drabs.

  179. Final Doom says:

    The poor don’t pay enough taxes.

    Bring back debtor prisons!

  180. Final Doom says:

    Faith no more. Oblivion beckons.

    Embrace it.

  181. Painhrtz says:

    Clot aking for .223 is like asking for gold bars look elsewhere. I’m certainly not giving any up, on the other hand you can make some nice home defense traps without explosives. See Vietnam circa 1968.

  182. Dissident HEHEHE says:

    “The poor don’t pay enough taxes.”

    And the wealthy & corporations have teams of accountants and lawyers to make sure they pay as little as possible:)

    Isn’t it nice to be middle class and pay for everyone else? Only good thing is they set up a system where the middle class will soon no longer exist.

  183. Final Doom says:

    HE (185)-

    Every political decision in Amerika (both corrupt parties) is predicated upon the idea of wiping out the middle class.

    If the middle class cannot be shanked, the idea goes no further.

  184. Final Doom says:

    Poor people, rich people…and nothing in between.

    So Third World.

  185. safeashouses says:

    #187 Doom,

    Do a job search. mostly $12 an hour jobs or 100k+ a year, very little in the middle.

  186. Mr hyde says:

    1/3 of the nation doesn’t pay taxes and everyone is ok with that? Gee, I thought everyone was supposed to pay for things like infrastructure and basic services.

    I agree with doom, we are F’d. It’s now in 1/3 of the nations best interest that the government spend more and more on bloated social programs and redistributionist policies. If we include those who pay taxes and are still on the government tit, then it’s probably closer to 50+%!!!

  187. Shore Guy says:

    A flat tax, with the same rate for every type of income, would go a long way in making things fair. If there are no loopholes, those at the top will not be able to game the system. But, I suspect that the liberals would never go for it as they seem to believe that everyone should be equal, except when it comes to tax rates.

    Why it would be less fair for Warren Buffet to pay the same tax rate as his secretary, instead of less asis currently the case, is beyond me.

    Just the savings in compliance costs and time would be massive.

  188. Shore Guy says:


    The mismanagement of the treasury is a real concen to me. I thought I saw recently that two of every three dollars we are currently spending are borrowed. That is reckless.

    Bush was reckless for squandering a surplus and B.O. has made bush look prudent. We need a budget that is in the black, not more red ink.

  189. veto that - Lawrence Yun says:

    “1/3 of the nation doesn’t pay taxes and everyone is ok with that?”

    Yeah i think im ok with this.

    I figure that 20% of americans are unemployed and have zero income (besides govt welfare/enemployment checks) and then the other 13% are dirt poor who probably dont make enough to feed their family – so it makes sense to not tax the weaker earners who make 25k per year.

    With all the jobs being shipped to the third world and all the machines and computers taking the rest of the middle/lower income class jobs, you almost have to have some sort of redistribution system like this.

    If not, and we just let the poor fend for themselves than you will see AQ training camps flourish in all of our inner cities and poor rural towns.

  190. NJGator says:

    Township Manager: “Back to basics” for local government

    Montclair’s new township manager believes recent cuts to state aid for municipalities and schools will force local governments to “go back to basics.”

    Dashield’s comments were part of a nearly-30-minute interview with Mark S. Porter, The Times’ editor, on the TV34 television program “Times Too.”

    With revenue falling, and state aid to Montclair set to be slashed by more than $800,000, it will be difficult for the municipality to maintain anything but core services such as public health and safety, the manager said.

    Still, Dashield added, there are other services Montclair provides that “are quite important to the community” that may not be considered vital. Municipal officials and the Township Council will have to strike the right balance when determining which programs to fund, he said.

    “How do we fund our values along with our core services?” Dashield asked.


  191. Mr Hyde says:


    Hypothetically the current 20% unemployment is temporary. I still say its suicidal to try and compete with 3rd world slave labor and at this point i do believe that a “protectionist” policy that punishes slave labor and lack of environmental standards is in our best interest. There is no free lunch and it would certainly cause some pain. But it would also allow us to redevelop both out economy and our industry.
    Standard of living will decrease either way,but trying to compete with 3rd world slave labor is a Faustian bargain at best.
    In such a scenario you wouldnt have any trade penalties on someplace like europe but would have equalization penalties on places like china.

    Do you really want the US to look like china? Because by ignoring the external costs of low priced slave labor goods, we are on the path to decay not advancement of our society.
    Competition is good for eveyone when everyone is playing by the same rules. But when one or several parties play by a relaxed set of rules at best competition is a farce.

  192. Anon E. Moose says:

    Mon dieu! Quell Suprise!

    “Rampant Fraud and Deceit” by Realtors in Short Sales

    If you can’t trust a Realtor… Hoocoodanode?

  193. Mr Hyde says:


    I thought “values” were philosophical positions held by an individual or group, not something that cost money.

  194. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [194] hyde

    “i do believe that a “protectionist” policy that punishes slave labor and lack of environmental standards is in our best interest.”

    It is the only card that O and the dems have. Without protectionism, Obama cannot achieve any environmental or economic goals, and I believe that the healthcare projections have to assume he accomplishes a level of protectionism.

    In fact, on positions he took prior to becoming president, he was very up front about his desire to favor purely domestic companies and to punish foreign companies and multinationals.

  195. njescapee says:


    Did you catch all of the Indian outsourcing companies licking their chops last week expecting a windfall from the healthcare legislation?

  196. Mr Hyde says:


    Such a policy also begins to erode china’s economic power.

    occasionally either party may have a good idea, but in the end i am confident that either party will manage to screwup implementation

  197. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [150] Al Gore

    That is precisely what we have been saying, isn’t it? That the USG will change the rules on retirement savings. All those folks who purchased annuities and voted for Chairman O must be pretty p.o.ed right now.

    I will have to examine to see if things like traditional IRAs and other pension payouts get caught up in this. Realistically not because, on their own, it is hard to amass enough wealth in a 401(k) or IRA to give you that sort of income, but in theory it could.

    Now one has to question whether Roths are safe. And I think that this is evidence that means-testing for SS is coming.

    Thus, as I have said all along, poor is the new rich, and planners will be looking for ways to make their clients look poor as they near retirement. In fact, for people in a lot of industries, it is preferable to look poor all the time.

  198. Mr Hyde says:


    DO you think trying to compete with china on their terms is a good idea?

  199. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [198] escapeee

    Indeed I did.

  200. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [141] gator

    Indeed, Ellery and Graydon can, and they do. I have partners here that, on paper at least, “kicked the kids out” before they went to college so as to make them eligible for more aid.

    Back in the 80’s colleges wised up to this. I had to be independent for a year before it was recognized; they upped it to 2 years. And I can easily see where they may make it more of an audit to verify. The irony in that is that such an exacting standard, with audits, favors the children of the more affluent, as they have the cash to finance such artifices.

    I’d write a book, but once I do, they would change the rules. That is why you can’t find tax dodging books at Barnes and Noble.

  201. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [148] Al

    “What a pathetic state of affairs. WTF? did 58,000 soldiers die in Vietnam for if we were just to roll over 40 years later anyway?”

    I am sure the hard-core commies in Vietnam are asking the same thing.

  202. blindjust says:

    I’m afraid i’m still unclear on the definition of “rich”. Is it a family earning 250K or more? Also, how many family members?

    If rich is defined over 250K, why do they phase our Roth eligibility starting at 150K and other deductions at 110K?

  203. Shore Guy says:

    Rich is defined as $1 more than the person defining it earns.

  204. veto that - Lawrence Yun says:

    “DO you think trying to compete with china on their terms is a good idea?”

    You make it sound like its the only choice. the tools at our disposal are more complex than the archaic terminology we used 70 years ago. now we can accomplish the same goals a million different ways.

    For example, we recently secured a few countries in the ME who just happen to have an extremely valuable resource. Thats one. (not really a new method lol)

    Next up, we create our own long term energy independance by drilling in our own backyard, building some nuke reactors and building up an alternative energy infrastructure.

    What else? – We can use political coersion or economic side deals to make china raise increase the value of their currency.

    We can continue to steal all the smartest, skilled, educated workers from around the globe and create cutting edge technologies that the world needs and keep allowing them to make our tee shirts.

    A few more manuevers like this and we wont have to do the ‘protectionist’ thing directly, nor will we have to worry about competing with the chinese or anyone else for that matter.

  205. veto that - Lawrence Yun says:

    207, Shore
    I live in the city of coca-cola (central nj). There are vending machines on every corner and the kids are walking around with the teeth rotting in their skull.

  206. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [205] blindjust

    Shore is unusually ham-fisted with that one, but he is close to the mark in one respect: When it comes to legislation, “rich” is an arbitrary concept.

    Also, it is both political and budgetary. With IRAs, the goal was to promote retirement savings so that the USG would not be burdened with a lot of elderly poor voters, looking for handouts (and voting themselves some) in 40 years. Actually, an amazingly far-sighted thing for the USG to do.

    But they also realized that those with means could use IRAs to lower their taxes. This would deny them revenue, and revenue at higher rates. They didn’t want that. So the phaseout was their way to finesse the issue.

    The irony was that they may actually be inadvertenly punishing the savers because the savers were deferring low taxes on income now, and may potentially pay higher taxes on income in the future. They chained themselves to the fisc when they retire.

    No young person should put much into traditional IRAs, and should not invest in 401(k)s unless there is a company match, or they are in a high tax bracket.

  207. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [207] shore


  208. Charles Bronson says:

    Well just got back from work and dropped by the local 7-11. In the parking lot were 4 middle aged, obese, white males sucking down a bacon, egg, and cheese bisquit. Took a glance at their truck and of course what do ya know. Municipal public works taking their 10am coffee break. By the time they got back to their job site it would be time to take 12pm lunch break.

  209. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [207] shore

    Yeah, I did. Was a surprise to be sure. I stared at it for a minute.

  210. Al "The Thermostat" Gore says:



    How about we have a pass the hat fundraiser and we can rent some excavation machines and dig the whole Communist municipality up and dump it in the Hudson river.

  211. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [205] blindjust

    Sounds like you are a candidate for a future GTG where I will discuss just those topics.

    I suppose I should step up here, and make the GTG Call: I am thinking late May or early June. Any preference for dates? Days of the week?

  212. Al "The Thermostat" Gore says:


    I agree. You cant compete with slave labor and most of us identify the societal benefits to a strong middle class. Protectionism is the only play but that doesnt coincide with the globalists agenda.

  213. Shore Guy says:

    “Shore is unusually ham-fisted with that one”

    Intentionally so.

    The point is that folks who are earning 250,000, 300,000, 400,000 may seem “rich” to someone making $80,000 a year, but it is so often a false perception.

    Mrs. Shore and I do pretty well and would not trade places with a family earning $200,000 a year. Still, as we are solely responsible for our retirement, and Little Shore will not ever qualify for any financial aid we are not swimminf in excess cash, despite a modest lifestyle.

  214. Mr Hyde says:


    Thats a great 50 year plan. it will be a little late by then. Nukes alone take an average of 10 years to go from paper to operational.

    For any of those to do much in the next 10-20 years we would have to institute a crash program. Perhaps after the USG finally goes bankrupt.

    I am not a political wiz, but the status quo and incremental policies wont do much to stop the slide into 3rd world status.

  215. Painhrtz says:

    Nom let me put it succintly

    In 97 as a lowly chemist I made 22K a year,stated if I only made 40K life would be better

    2000 made 40K but had accumulated student debt for a graduate degree to make 40K, 55-60K would make my life better

    2004 making 60K knocking down debt realize I can ‘t afford a house. 80K new normal striving for that becase that will put me ahead.

    2006 making 80K life is good debt is going away, to almost gone, got married. A house costs how much!!!?? $hit I need to make a 100K to even survive. Car is paid off has 150K miles looks like I need to make it last a little longer.

    2010 making a little over a 100K, econmy is in shambel house prices going down wish I was making 80K because the taxes are prohibitive over a 100K even with a maxed out 401K. Government calls me wealthy, truck now has 235K miles still driving it. Can’t justify getting a new truck even though I technically need one. Wife and I have two other cars. One just sits cause it costs too much to fix (audi) if something goes wrong, other was purchased as a demo (Honda). Could not justify cost of new.

    I don’t complain about salary anymore, rather taxes. Wanted to start my own compliance company but don’t see the value in that. So I sit in an office effectively neutered and miserable thanks to the US government.

    I guess I am the new rich.

  216. Al "The Thermostat" Gore says:



    Your insight is getting better and better as the pieces of the puzzle get put together.

    Last year I rolled my 401k into an IRA and my gut told me to decline contributing for now. There is 15 trillion in private retirement savings and it increasingly looks like they are going to make a move for it.

    I catch one sniff of them making a move on retirement saving then Im taking the hit for sure. They may make it voluntary or like you say “means test.”

  217. Al "The Thermostat" Gore says:

    (Reuters) – PIMCO sees Europe’s action on Greece as ineffective in fixing the country’s problems, while Britain’s sovereign debt rating could be downgraded within a year, a top executive of the world’s largest bond fund said.

  218. Al "The Thermostat" Gore says:

    JP Morgan Chase cant keep bullion down. Word is spreading about the CFTC meeting.

  219. Alap says:

    The Hoboken Board of Education approved the final draft of the 2010-2011 school district budget Tuesday night by a vote of 6-1.

    The $57.9 million spending plan – which represents a 7 percent reduction from the current school year’s $62 million operating budget – now will go before the voters on April 20.

    The amount of money to be raised by local taxes to pay for the city’s public schools will remain at $36.8 million, school officials said.

    Board members Ruth McAllister and Frances Rose-Kerns missed the meeting.

    Board member Maureen Sullivan, the lone “no” vote, expressed concerns about overspending.

    Salary increases in the budget tally $1.18 million, officials said. But the district saved $1.77 million by eliminating 14 positions.

    The district is also losing $2.78 million in state and federal grants, officials said.

    Veteran board member Jimmy Farina was enthusiastic about the budget, calling the document “thorough and professional, and honest.”

    If the budget is voted down April 20, it will be sent to the City Council for adjustments. This budget kicks in July 1.

  220. Alap says:

    Key Line –

    Salary increases in the budget tally $1.18 million, officials said. But the district saved $1.77 million by eliminating 14 positions.

    Raises for the cronies > 14 jobs.

  221. Al "The Thermostat" Gore says:

    Three Reasons Public Sector Workers Are Killing The Economy; Pittsburgh’s Pension Liability Hits $1 Billion; Pittsburgh Is Bankrupt

    1. Public sector employees cost too much.
    2. We can’t fire them no matter how bad they are
    3. They are a permanent lobby

    “Pittsburgh is bankrupt in my estimation. There is no way it can meet those pension obligations thanks to corrupt politicians getting in bed with greedy unions. The only way out is bankruptcy, hoping to overturn ridiculous promises in court.”

  222. veto that - Lawrence Yun says:

    “Thats a great 50 year plan. it will be a little late by then. Perhaps after the USG finally goes bankrupt.”

    Ket, a long term plan for a long term problem.
    And im sorry to disapoint but the ‘bankruptcy’ that you speak of will not occur.

  223. Mr Hyde says:


    I am exaggerating when i say “bankruptcy”

    Argentina, here we come

  224. jcer says:

    Alap, which of the 5 families does the Hoboken board of ed belong to?

  225. blindjust says:

    I agree that rich is an arbitrary concept for individuals. However, I take exception when the government redefines it in the tax code yet the consistently publicizes some family income amount. NJ goes a step further and penalizes “rich” investors (through disallowing loss carry forward) and “rich” homeowners with high property taxes (capping at 10K).

  226. veto that - Lawrence Yun says:

    “Argentina, here we come.”

    I’ll go all-in long America.
    You can all-in short it.

    And then we can discuss who is going bankrupt.

  227. blindjust says:

    Here’s a property listed at 700K that was purchased for 1.2M in 12/18/2006 …


    Taxes … 22.4K

  228. Mr Hyde says:


    You have heard me say many times that i think the US may end being the “best of the worst”. But that doesnt mean i have to like where we are headed. You want both short and long term plans. What we have at this point is a bastardized approach that serves no one but entrenched interests.

    My ideas may suck. But the current unrestricted globalization game is a losing game for the US.

    Despite my annoyance with the current PTB i am still patriotic enough that i want to see us as a nation take care of ourselves first and everyone else second.

    I dont want to see our nation continue its downward slide and think that as far as we have gone, we still have the potential to rise again if we are willing to pay the price. Even if its unlikely we will do so.

  229. Jamal Van Jones says:

    2010 making a little over a 100K, econmy is in shambel house prices going down wish I was making 80K because the taxes are prohibitive over a 100K even with a maxed out 401K.

    Umm, I make almost exactly as you are making and have no idea what you are talking about taxes being prohibitive, unless you have a spouse who is making as much.

    My effective tax rate (IIRC), was about 14.5%(standard deduction for a married couple), which might be due to the tax cuts in the stimulus package. Also, no 401K contribution, just an IRA.

    I think the tax rate was higher than this last year.

  230. veto that - Lawrence Yun says:

    Here’s a property listed at 700K that was purchased for 1.2M in 12/18/2006 …

    Blindjust, That just made my day.
    Please post the realtor.com link for that comp killer. I cant see get from your mls link.

  231. Barbara says:

    Jamal, can I have the name of your accountant?

  232. veto that - Lawrence Yun says:

    Where is John?

    Primerica is trading at 19.52
    ha ha.

    This guy doesn’t quit.

  233. blindjust says:

    [215] Nom
    I am and would be interested in discussing that topic further. Thanks.

  234. jcer says:

    Anyone have any experience with an FHA Pre-foreclosure Sale(PFS). I am in the process of trying to buy one. It looks like FHA will approve anything higher than 84% of FMV(Which looking at the appraisal is spot on +/- 10k), but the thing I’m looking at has a second mortgage for 110K which has gone to the MI insurer(UGIC which is AIG) I’m fairly certain the thing that is slowing me down here is getting approval from the secondary lender. Does anyone have any experience with how much it usually takes to get rid of the secondary lien holder and how long this process takes. Listing agent told my agent their was no time line but he though they could get it done.

  235. jcer says:

    FHA truly looks like a ticking time bomb.

  236. chicagofinance says:

    Mr hyde says:
    April 1, 2010 at 9:04 am
    I agree with doom, we are F’d.


  237. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    Blindjust, Al, and Pain,

    I would be happy to discuss those topics with you further, but my sense tells me not to do that here.

    I try to be sensitive to the fact that Grim is hosting a real estate blog, not my personal tax planning blog, and that my meager donations to date don’t give me the right to co-opt it.

    So I suggest we take it offline. Email me at nomdeplumenj@gmail.com to discuss further.

  238. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [220] al

    Thanks, although I don’t think my views have changed.

    I think that certain predictions I have made are more in focus than when I first made them.

    Some of my predictions about what would happen in this financial crisis I had made back in the mid-90s. Boy, was I getting blank stares then.

    And still, they were so outlandish that I never invested accordingly myself, except that when the bubble burst, and Obama was elected, I was already 70% in cash and had purchased lots of ammo.

  239. blindjust says:

    And here’s a property listed at 369,900 that was purchased for 199,200 on 03/05/2010 …


  240. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [245] redux

    That said, I am still calling for a mid to late May, or early June GTG with the healthcare bill and taxes as the topic.

    Suggestions welcome.

  241. still_looking aka Tan-Less says:

    I just gotta ask…

    Did taxes yesterday. both accountants in the office telling me… “prices aren’t going to go down anymore. Think about buying now.”

    Me? After all that I have seen and been through the last 4-5 yrs, I guess I’m just skeptical.

    One of their other recommendations I did like though… but still need research…investing in natural gas.

    Any thoughts?


  242. Mr Hyde says:

    Chifi 244

    need to up my dose.

  243. veto that - Lawrence Yun says:

    Blind, that is unbelievable.
    Nice home too with acreage.

  244. still_looking aka Tan-Less says:

    Forget SSRIs

    Go running instead…


  245. Libtard says:


    I used to invest in NG. The old mantra was one cold winter and you’d be rich. Well we had our record cold winter and still our reserves barely got dented. Investing in NG is essentially a hedge against peak oil. Though even then, you would probably do better investing in gold or solar due to the more limited supply. It just seems that we have tons of NG available, it’s dirt cheap, it burns clean and we don’t use it. Can anyone say oil lobbies?

    Read the Picken’s Plan for the potential. But weigh the fluff against reality.

  246. blindjust says:

    Veto – My wife and I went to see it in Nov. It’s about 18 min from I-80 but I wasn’t quite ready to pull the trigger. We’re considering putting an offer on it @540K.

  247. Barbara says:

    just look at those stairs, I’d say about mid tier at the home depot. And the cheap 1/4″ hardwood plank floors. NJ suffers from a lack of taste and a critical eye, its the third rail in the real estate problem. I wouldn’t pay 200,000 to live in that drywall box.

  248. yo'me says:

    #235 Jamal

    (Tax Rate Schedule X)
    •10% on income between $0 and $8,350

    •15% on the income between $8,350 and $33,950; plus $835

    •25% on the income between $33,950 and $82,250; plus $4,675

    •28% on the income between $82,250 and $171,550; plus $16,750

    •33% on the income between $171,550 and $372,950; plus $41,754

    •35% on the income over $372,950; plus $108,216


  249. Mr Hyde says:

    Veto, 251

    And you are just downwind of Picatinny Arsenal’s ordnance/chemical incinerator.

  250. Mr Hyde says:


    Burning Ground Area: Explosively-contaminated sludge and sediment from
    manufacturing processes are sent to the Burning Grounds to be incinerated in pans
    (formerly on ground surface). The Army has investigated this area of the site to determine
    the nature and extent of contamination in soil, groundwater, surface water, and sediment. The Army
    is proposing to cap the site and submitted a Proposed Plan March 2002. A new incinerator to replace
    the Burning Grounds has been constructed on-site and is expected to begin operating by Summer
    2002. Consequently, the Burning Grounds will be closed and the remedy will be able to be
    implemented without delay.

  251. blindjust says:

    Barb – agree but my 3rd child is due in 3 weeks and the 1300sq ft 3br/1.5 ba ranch, that I bought when I was single, is a bit cramped.

  252. sas3 says:

    #256 Yome…

    Why would making 100k be worse off than making 80k?

    Add in lower tax rates, low inflation, and lower housing prices…


  253. Mr Hyde says:


    Got gasmasks?

    August 09, 2009, 6:36AM

    ROCKAWAY TOWNSHIP–Representatives from Picatinny Arsenal met Thursday with the public to discuss its petition for a new open-burning site that will dispose of hazardous waste.


  254. Final Doom says:

    hyde (234)-

    Game over. Tilt.

    Last one to cut in the game of competitive currency devlauation is the loser.

    That would seem to be us.

    Stockpile shiny, food, water and .223. It’s gonna go from gray to black.

  255. Final Doom says:

    jcer (240)-

    If the second is in a position to get even $1,000, they should GTF out of the way. $1,000 is better than the $0 they will get if that sucker forecloses.

  256. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [262] clot

    Will be in the Sovereign State of New Hampshire this weekend.

    Looking forward to picking up a Mossberg before officially becoming an NJ resident.

    Will also pick up some more .223. Tax free of course.

  257. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [253] libtard

    I agree with libtard (for once). NG is a sucker bet (including this sucker), though at these levels, it would be a good hedge and a play on cap and trade if one does not invest too much. If you want to hedge peak oil, buy oil.

    I did invest in a gas pipeline though (BWP), and that is up.

  258. Final Doom says:

    jcer (241)-

    Don’t look now, but a little-known provision of the FHA program adjustments taking effect now is a refi program in which borrowers underwater up to a 115 LTV can pull off the refi…if they can convince their current lender to forgive at least 10% of the current mortgage balance. Therefore, someone underwater to the tune of 125 LTV on their current loan can do it.

    Existing junior lienholders may keep their seconds in place, but only up to a combined LTV of 115%.

    Best of all, minimum FICO requirement is 500!!!!!!

    Tell me this isn’t a dirty bomb being trip-wired to random detonate.

  259. Final Doom says:

    blind (243)-

    That place looks like a dinosaur took a dump on a vacant lot.

  260. Final Doom says:

    Stucco? Probably EIFS.

  261. yo'me says:

    Why would making 100k be worse off than making 80k?

    Add in lower tax rates, low inflation, and lower housing prices

    We made combined income close to 150k.
    After close to 50k in deductions and almost hitting AMT.We were in the 25% bracket.

  262. Final Doom says:

    sl (249)-

    The sector’s been taken to the woodshed.

    OTOH, now some of the divvies on good companies are up around 6%.

    Too bad that on 1/1/11, it’s game over for dividend-yielding stocks.

  263. Final Doom says:

    sl (252)-

    If I ever need pills, screw the SSRI.

    Straight to haldol for me.

  264. Final Doom says:

    barb (255)-

    Precisely. You can tell from the photos the place is a shitbox.

  265. Mr Hyde says:

    Shore, SL

    what do you think of these contaminant levels? bad, not so bad ???

    Three radiological parameters, alpha (gross), beta (gross), and cesium-137, were detected in sample
    SD180-3. The concentrations were as follows: alpha (gross), 17 pCi/g; beta (gross), 39 pCi/g; cesium-
    137, 0.33 pCi/g. The threshold values for alpha (gross), beta (gross), and cesium-137 are 20.0 pCi/g,
    30.7 pCi/g, and 0.560 pCi/g, respectively.

  266. Final Doom says:

    sl, can you give me a rundown on possible haldol/Knob Creek interactions?

  267. Jamal Van Jones says:

    Jamal, can I have the name of your accountant?

    Turbo Tax, Timmy Special Edition :)

    Seriously, just applied standard deduction, nothing itemized.

  268. NJGator says:

    264 Nom – Live free or die…

  269. Final Doom says:

    …make that haldol/Knob Creek/cesium 137.

  270. Final Doom says:

    Live free…or die trying?

  271. Shore Guy says:


    It has been a long time since I had to do much with health physics. I will defer to sl on this, but, the idea of burning radioactive waste in an open pit does not strike me as a wise disposal method.

  272. Final Doom says:

    My fave CNBC eye-candy has resurfaced:

    NEW YORK (AP) – Rebecca Jarvis is joining the Saturday edition of CBS’ “Early Show” as its news reader.

    The network announced Thursday she also will serve as business and economics correspondent for CBS News.

    Jarvis comes from CNBC, where she reported stock, currency and commodities market news. She also contributed to MSNBC and NBC News programs, and regularly guest-anchored “Closing Bell,” “Squawk on the Street” and “Power Lunch.”

  273. Final Doom says:

    Of course, if CBS wanted a more serious business/econ correspondent, they’d have hired the Cookie Monster.

  274. blindjust says:

    clot – While i agree that the highest quality materials are not typically used in newer construction, it’s far better than all of what I’ve seen over the past 4 years. This, on the other hand, would fall into that category in my opinion …


  275. Final Doom says:

    Rest of AP story on Jarvis:

    If Ms. Jarvis hadn’t scored this job, the next stop was a stripper pole on Rt. 3.

  276. Shore Guy says:


    Have you ever dona a flame test for strontium? It gives off a great color.

  277. Final Doom says:

    blind (282)-

    A perfectly formed turd is still a turd.

  278. Final Doom says:

    blind (282)-

    I’ve been looking for lime sherbet carpet for years. That place is the bomb.

  279. Final Doom says:

    hyde (283)-

    Is that dark area a bomb crater?

  280. Mr Hyde says:


    that is the tip of the iceberg. I just read part of the site evaluation, the list of toxic compounds, from furans to radiologicals is several pages long.


    make sure that house doesnt have well water. If it does better plan on getting a whole house RO system installed.

  281. Mr Hyde says:



    Its Green Brook Pond which is connected to the local stream systems. Guess where all the run off from the burning pit goes whenever it rains?

  282. Final Doom says:

    OK, she’s better than Cookie Monster.

    “Previously, Jarvis wrote for numerous publications, including Crain’s Chicago Business and Business 2.0. She also has worked in investment banking and foreign currency trading.

    Jarvis graduated from the University of Chicago with a degree in Economics and Constitutional Law. A recipient of the University of Chicago Dean’s Grant, she studied European banking and financial markets and the formation of the European Union at the Université Sciences Po in Paris, France. Jarvis has received national recognition for her work with Colin Powell to empower children and improve communities. She was named “One of Twenty Teens Who Will Change the World” by Teen People magazine, and named a “National Point of Light,” receiving accolades from Presidents Bill Clinton and George Bush, Sr.”

  283. jcer says:

    Doom, I would assume that given how underwater they are the bank should be happy with the few grand they are going to get. But with AIG and it’s elk(PMI companies) and the new accounting rules they can pretend it’s full value until they have to pay(foreclosure). I have heard they typically, if the borrower has cash try to get 20%, sometimes 10% of the loan value or a promissory note of 50% or more. I’m sure the lender is more than happy to recover the 17% or 20% from the PMI and 3 or 4K from the borrower.

  284. Final Doom says:

    That’s your bait, chi.

  285. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [276] gatah,


    Actually been calling gun shops in the Sovereign State. Slim pickings. One guy who buys and sells used and new tells me that since Obama was elected, he has sold out his entire inventory of moderately priced shotguns and won’t have any until Wednesday.

    I commented on Obama being the gun salesman of the year, and was surprised to hear him disgruntled about the demand. From his perspective, it hurts business long term if he cannot fill demand, and demand is still so hot that he cannot get ahold of guns to sell.

  286. Mr Hyde says:


    dont worry that is just one of many burning grounds on site at picainny. they also have several drum burial sites for hazardous waste.

    some light reading if curious:

  287. Shore Guy says:


    With radiological waste, I just don’t get why we don’t blend down and then form into ceramics. It would seem to offer the best opportunity to prevent diversions of materials as well as seepage over time from waste sites.

  288. Final Doom says:

    jcer (292)-

    New short sale rules that go into effect next week preclude lenders going after deficiencies. The deal made in the short sale IS the deal & everything gets recorded as satisfied.

  289. Final Doom says:

    shore (296)-

    We should fashion all that waste into toys and trinkets and sell them to China.

  290. Shore Guy says:

    “just one of many burning grounds”

    The waste issue may be the reason the place has not been shut down over the years — too expensive to clean up.

  291. Mr Hyde says:



  292. Shore Guy says:

    Too big to fail


    Too contaminated to close

  293. Final Doom says:

    Hyde, you should move there. Maybe your kid will grow a third nut.

  294. still_looking aka Tan-Less says:

    Back from walking/running. Burned enough calories to down scotch freely now… (oy vey)

    Nom, 264

    Jealous. Me, Very Jealous.


  295. blindjust says:

    Thanks and I readily admit that we’re getting a bit desperate. I’ve been looking since ’04.
    We’ve chosen Rockaway b/c the family lives nearby and we tend to rely quite heavily on them for impromptu babysitting. I also have an Autistic child and we’re quite satisfied with the progress he’s made in Rockaway’s program.

  296. Mr Hyde says:


    stay south/west of picatinny.

  297. still_looking aka Tan-Less says:

    Lib, Nom, Clot,

    Figured as much (re NG)

    I love my accountant. Been my accountant for 30 yrs. No, not kidding.

    Made a pile on MRK, VFINX and others with him.

    2 or 3 yrs ago he was saying “buy a house” and “invest in BOA and WF”

    I didn’t pull the trigger on either suggestion.

    Made a boatload on SKF, got hurt with SRS and a REIT.

    Been an interesting year. I always seem to look back on the past year in April.

    (Maybe I need another trek around the block)


  298. still_looking aka Tan-Less says:

    Hyde, picocuries per gram of alpha/beta/cesium in what sample?

    (sorry, I didn’t scroll back — did I miss the intro?)


  299. Final Doom says:

    blind (304)-

    You cannot be a buyer in this market and say something like this. For God’s sake, sell your house and rent something if you really have to move that bad.

    Yes, I am a Realtor.

    “…I readily admit that we’re getting a bit desperate.”

  300. Mr Hyde says:


    Soil and water samples

  301. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [303] still

    Ha! I wish I was leaving tonight. The store I plan to patronize is on the border of the town where I used to live up there, and right next to the park that the partner I worked for and I would leave from to mountain bike in the hills around Lake Massabesic. I haven’t been there in over 10 years.

    I’ll bring you back some ammo. What caliber do you take?

  302. Painhrtz says:

    Aww man I’m in moderation with no naughty words guess $$ with typical consonants incurs the wrath of the filter.

    anyway after all deductions Jamal, I only take home half of my pay most of that is taxes.

    Blind I looked at that house too, can’t believe it went that low.

    Hyde wife just looked at a house she likes in Randolph maybe you’ll get me as a neighbor after all.

  303. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [270] doom

    “Too bad that on 1/1/11, it’s game over for dividend-yielding stocks.”

    Not if you hold them the right way, it isn’t.

    Got trusts?

  304. still_looking aka Tan-Less says:

    310 Nom,

    Want a list? :)


  305. still_looking aka Tan-Less says:

    312, Nom

    I need a better plan…

    Maybe when you get back?

    In the spirit of Ayn Rand… I don’t expect free services. Just so you know…


  306. still_looking aka Tan-Less says:


    You don’t need Haldol. You need a Congress that knows the fu.ck what it’s doing.

    You don’t need SSRIs. You need a president that isn’t Peggy the Mouch’s champion.

    Knob Creek? Well, that’s a given.


  307. still_looking aka Tan-Less says:

    geez. not even after 4 pm and I’m finally driven to four letter words.

    (will never not be a potty mouth, ever.)


  308. still_looking aka Tan-Less says:


    alpha and betas are not really at issue.

    Cesium is bad stuff.

    I’m not a radiation expert. The limits of my radiation teaching involve medical disasters related to fallout.

    I aced physics and loved reading about it, but that was in 1987. Then again, I am always looking for an excuse to crack open my physics books! :)

    another use of the exponential function:



  309. still_looking aka Tan-Less says:

    dang, super and sub scripts not working right


  310. Mr Hyde says:


    Beta can be nasty if inhaled. Radiological contamination has been found in open burning pits at picatinny arsenal

  311. still_looking aka Tan-Less says:

    Gator, 317

    Oh, Fu.ck them!

    I know pediatricians that don’t make nearly that! And have NO pension/benefits, to boot!

    What a fu.cking scam!


  312. Mr Hyde says:


    You mean its a problem that cesium can displace calcium in the human body?

    Anyone remember the radium girls

  313. Mr Hyde says:


    I would imagine that the potential danger is that if you are kicking up dust from radiologically contaminated soil, that could potentially be inhaled, you are looking at more of a health hazard.

  314. Mr Hyde says:


    whats wrong with $100,760/yr for a typing instructor. I mean they work 10 months out of the year and have to write lesson plans!!!!


  315. still_looking aka Tan-Less says:

    They shouldn’t be burning radioactive waste that can escape the site.

    Actually alpha particles are more locally dangerous…wrt activity, moreso than betas, but they are easily stopped.

    Paper can stop alpha particles and thin tinfoil (dang, where’s my hat!) stops betas.

    Inhaled, though, yes I agree — actually both are dangerous.

    Here is what your government has to say about it.


  316. NJGator says:

    SL/Hyde – This is go galling. These are numbers from 2008, so these folks are all earning more. And most of these jokers are only teaching 3 classes. Your garden variety classroom instructor teaches 5-6.

  317. Painhrtz says:

    SL and that is part of the reason I did not go to medical school. well that and a substantial drinking problem in college.

    Inhaled betas do some wonderful transcriptase errors and mutations. Basically scrambles the DNA in lung tissue like eggs. Nothing like highly proliferative and agressive transformed cell lines from the air your breathing.

  318. still_looking aka Tan-Less says:

    Hyde, ingestion is just as bad as inhalation.


    Back in an hr…. gotta run (to my physics book ;)

  319. NJGator says:

    My ultraliberal colleague from JC is ready to go to war with the teacher’s union over this.

  320. relo says:

    317: Isn’t there a program that might be more cost beneficial?

  321. NJGator says:

    relo – Yes – Mavis Beacon teaches typing costs $17.99.

  322. Painhrtz says:

    Ooooh and she is highly qualified because she passed the Praxis exam, I know teacher candidates who passed it while hung over from three day benders in AC. What a joke.

    Do we even need typing tudors in school anymore with computers being so pervasive. I’m sure her students are teaching her $hit

  323. veto that - Lawrence Yun says:

    Regarding Rockaway – you are not thinking positively enough.

    Think of the size of tomatoes you can grow in that soil.

  324. Mr Hyde says:


    Please feel free to correct me, but as a rough estimate the actual carrying costs for that teacher making 100K is probably about 150K when you consider the cost of their benefits.

    They are also making 120K on an annualized basis, given that they work 10 months.

  325. Escape from NJ says:

    Gator (317),

    It’s good to know that a typing instructor out earns all the associates at my law firm. This is why my kid is forbidden to go to law school. But he will be getting a shiny new typy writer for his birthday.

  326. Jim says:

    I’m not sure if this has been posted yet, but he may qualify under the title rich.


  327. jcer says:

    Hudson county basically invented no show politically appointed jobs in education! This should not come as a surprise, how many of these jobs were doled out as political favors. Given how poor the education is in JC at a cost of 20k a student to boot, this really makes a lot of sense and how much do you want to bet these slugs aren’t even good typing teachers.

  328. relo says:

    331: What does Mavis expect in terms of sick pay/vacation accrual, pension, tenure, sundry acct. etc?

  329. relo says:

    Oh yeah, and benefits!

  330. Juice Box says:

    Typing in Jersey City, that is a useless skill.

    Hahaha the oldest one with 41 years teaches six classes the others on teach 3. WTF!

  331. Against The Grain says:

    Maybe the JC typing teachers should be conscripted to burn radioactive waste at Picatinny during their summer vacations.

  332. relo says:

    ps – I am going to strangle my wife for staying home w/ the kids and not using that teaching degree. Then I will strangle myself for choosing my profession and not getting a teaching degree.

  333. NJGator says:

    McCann’s war: former JC mayor goes toe-to-toe with teachers’ union in re-election year

    Gerry McCann, was the Mayor of Jersey City from 1981 to 1985, and again from 1989 until his criminal conviction in 1992. The harder the teachers’ union works against his re-election, the more Gerald McCann’s re-election to the Jersey City School Board looks like a walk, argues the city’s former mayor, who in his battle with the teachers locally has ironically become Gov. Chris Christie’s highest profile school board totem ally.

    In a ground level replication of Christie’s Statehouse calls for teacher salary givebacks, the big city Democrat who once said Michael Chertoff would be better suited behind the wheel of a garbage truck than at the helm of the U.S. Attorney’s Office, helped derail a budget containing teacher raises of 4.35 and 4.7 percent.

    “If they forego the raises, 373 people would still be employed and we wouldn’t have a $10 million tax increase,” McCann told PolitickerNJ.com. “We could still give them a raise and keep 300 people employed – a slight raise some. The other 70 or so are retiring or leaving through attrition.”

    McCann, who wrote a letter of support on behalf of Department of Education Commissioner Bret Schundler (his successor in the Jersey City mayor’s office), said Christie didn’t create the problem that led to $27 million in projected cuts to this year’s Jersey City school budget.

    “The reality is they didn’t face the problems, I don’t blame chris Christie,” said McCann. “It’s the condition of the economy and runaway costs. The problem is the government costs. They were giving raises like crazy – teachers getting astronomical raises. You just can’t keep spending at that level.

    “I supported Corzine for governor, but I don’t see any irony in backing Christie in this. If Corzine got elected, the same problem would exist. Corzine let the millionaires off. The tax ran out when Corzine was governor, Dec. 31st. If the Democratic legislature wanted to enact the tax, it woud have stayed in existence. They didn’t, so don’t blame Christie. The only person you can blame is who was in power when it lapsed. You think Christie’s going to be taxing his supporters? That’s not the logic of politics.”

    McCann said he’s not worried about the teachers’ efforts to dislodge him from office come April 20th, the local school board election.

    “The people in Monmouth County can’t vote in this election,” he said. “I spent $248 last time I ran, three years ago – up against $50,000 poured in here by the teachers. That’s documented. I won. I want them out there. They’re just making my case a better case. The more they stir it up, all the other people paying tax increases are saying, ‘McCann is fighting for me.’ I didn’t create the situation they created it and now they’re giving me free publicity. The teachers put me on the front page of yesterday’s newspaper.”


  334. jcer says:

    In hudson I want a count of how many employees teach 0 classes, who are school related workers(not including maintenance and janitorial work). It is no surprise the schools have issue, they should be able to get an adjunct professor of computer science for that type of money!

  335. Juice Box says:

    Best Teaching Job by far that I know if is my buddy who teaches Water Polo in a University out west.

    Maybe works 20 hours a week in the busy season, gets to travel to Hawaii all the time for matches, and wears flip flops and shorts year round.

    Always some nice looking wommen to oogle, and the only chance of getting hurt on the job is if he accidentally swallows his whistle.

    Pay rate $120k !!!

    All I need are some tasty waves, cool buds, and I’m fine.

  336. NJGator says:

    Hyde 334 – No need for correction.

    You know, I don’t see why we can’t have salary bands for jobs in the school system, similar to what the state has in place for the Judiciary. It’s all well and good that’s you’ve stuck around for 41 years teaching typing (aka breathing) in JC, but if the max of the salary band for that position is X, then you never earn more than that (dislaimer – max salary bands would be adjusted annually for inflation). If you want to earn more than X, then you need to get promoted into a different job that is rated for more money.

  337. Nomad says:

    blindjust says:
    April 1, 2010 at 12:50 pm
    Barb – agree but my 3rd child is due in 3 weeks…

    How about an addition instead? This has it’s hassles but so does selling your place and moving.

    Probably cheaper to add second floor but not sure if you can live in it while doing so.

  338. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [313] sl

    Geez, I won’t have THAT much room.

    I plan to get a 500 box of .22LR and about 100 .223, and if I get a shotgun, shells for that as well. If you need .22 or .223, I will get extra, but won’t have time to be guessing about 9mm brands. Want something, be specific.

    Will also be loading up the trunk with wine, booze, and beer. Expect to return to NJ with a full load of tax-free swag. Tax savings alone will pay for the ammo.

  339. blindjust says:

    [347] It would be cheaper but would also be a throw-away. The road is busy, the lot small and isn’t level. I also would like a 2c garage.

  340. House Whine says:

    Please don’t pounce on me but one of the best teachers I ever had was my typing teacher in high school. She knew how to teach!! Plus, I think I had maybe 8 kids in the whole class so that was kind of pleasant. What a boring subject that must be to teach but somehow I loved that class. Yes, I am also a great typist. At least she cared about us and was effective.

  341. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    Someone linked to politicker, and here is something I found there.

    Nice to see that these are the folks ejookading our kids and sucking up our tax dollars.


  342. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    Politicker also had a story on how NJ wasn’t filling in the census (I dispute that—they have already counted 4 million of the 3 million people that live in Hudson county).

    For my part, I am disclaiming NJ residency. Domicile is where you live and intend to stay, or to return to. I will rely on the belief that I intend to return to New Hampshire, and declare that as my domicile.

    Not New Jersey.

    Sorry Chris, but you are not gonna be governor forever and I am taking the long view.

  343. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [350] whine

    I took typing back in the 70s. It sucked and I learned nothing.

    Eventually, as I had to type papers in college, and computers came into vogue, I learned to type and type well.

    Glad you got your money’s worth, but I don’t credit the typing teacher for anything but finger placement. Now, my english teacher that helped with my writing style, that is a different story.

  344. Dissident HEHEHE says:

    “Please don’t pounce on me but one of the best teachers I ever had was my typing teacher in high school”

    My typing teacher’s name was Mr Doerger. Everyone called him “Cheese” Doerger. I used to ask to go to rest room in study hall every once in a while and go up one floor and yell outside his classroom “Cheese come out and play!” Then take off. Never caught me. I am still getting a chuckle out of that and it was 20 years ago:)

  345. Al "The Thermostat" Gore says:



    Regarding oil and natural gas plays. I like the Canadian energy trusts.

    PVX (Provident Energy Trust) is an oil and natural gas energy trust with a nice yield 10-12%.

    Bought that puppy at 4.5 and got out at 7. Not bad for 3 months.

    Downside is that the Canadian tax structure is changing next year and may negatively impact dividends. If you are making a play on Iran it may be a decent choice the question is when to buy ie after the attack or before.

    Other than that the fundamentals just arent there for oil which is why Im on the sidelines.

  346. Painhrtz says:

    Nom things are going to get really ugly. I bet the school year starts late this year thanks to a consensus walk out. If that happens Governor Puff n Stuff should fire them all like Reagan with the Air traffic controllers.

    Those comments are great, I think they are feeling a little pressure from the union. I am also certain that most teachers lack the ability to think for themselves after reading them.

  347. RU says:

    #350. Why on earth are they still teaching kids to type. Every kid pretty much uses a computer. They basically know how to type coming out of the womb. What a big waste of money? I heard there is a secretary for the superintendants in J.C. whose only job is to run their errands!!!!

  348. Al "The Thermostat" Gore says:

    “In a recent speech at Columbia University, French president Nicolas Sarkozy said,“You should reflect on what it means to be the world’s No. 1 power,” “We should invent a new global monetary order,” firmly emphasizing new regulations would “save capitalism.” He added, “The world does not stop at the East Coast, the world does not stop at the West Coast,” Sarkozy said. “The world needs an open America, a generous America, an America that shows the way, an America that listens.” “When New York was attacked, it was all the democracies of the world who were attacked,” he said. “When Moscow is attacked, it is all of us who are attacked,” he said referring to the bombings in Moscow.”

  349. House Whine says:

    353-Comrade- Admittedly, you are right about the finger placement. I think it was just nice to be in a class where you could get one on one attention because it was so small. Plus, I kind of liked being the only girl! Loved my AP English teacher as well and I didn’t realize how good she was until I was much older. Good teachers and class size do matter, even now!

  350. Essex says:

    It is a fascinating time to be alive folks. If things are going well for you be grateful. The thing that surprises me is the bitterness and thin skinned shit that is flying around right now. Everyone is whiny and pissed off. Makes me wonder.

  351. Essex says:

    I am one of those folks that seems to thrive in conflict. Perhaps it is the fighter in me. I hunker down and take my licks and come back harder than ever. I always thought that is what made this country great. But what I see is a nation of cry babies.

  352. Painhrtz says:

    Essex it is called entitlement. I knew we were fcuked 15 years ago when everyone wanted to get a government job whether it be teacher, cop, or firefighter. When government jobs are more finacially rewarding than the private sector there is no point being in the private sector.

  353. House Whine says:

    361- If some adversity motivates you and prods you along congrats to you. I see a lot of folks now who are really hurting- not just financially but physically as well. I am trying to be grateful every day because my life is like a paradise compared to many. I see what you are saying about people whining. Well, those people are spoiled and have forgotten, or never learned to cope with adversity because they never had to. I tell my kids how glad I am now that I grew up without money. It kind of toughens you up for what’s ahead.

  354. Shore Guy says:

    I just saw the following bumber sticker, which seems to fit recent discussions:

    Remember PILLAGE first, then burn.

  355. chicagofinance says:

    The next group to be inculcated into douchebaggery has been chosen……


  356. Essex says:

    362, I think it is a matter of how you think and act. The rough and tumble world of corporate life is not for everyone. A couple of really bad bosses and you are toast. Gubmint work on the other hand has some stability, but as we see when the tax base dwindles everybody loses.

  357. Essex says:

    In the tech boom I was part of two IPOs and managed to leave both firms….not a millionaire. Crap!!! And that was when everyone was cashing out.

  358. Essex says:

    What I find strange is the whole “I am suffering, you should suffer too” mentality. That just seems strange to me.

  359. chicagofinance says:

    SX: This blog is more of a suffering competition….

    Essex says:
    April 1, 2010 at 4:29 pm

    What I find strange is the whole “I am suffering, you should suffer too” mentality. That just seems strange to me.

  360. Shore Guy says:

    How about a Third Bank of the United States?

    While we are at it, first, let’s have the FED take on all of the USG’s debt, then, Charter the Third National Bank of the US, then revoke the FED’s ability to create money, then exchange Federal Reserve Notes, for TBOUS Dollars on a one-for-one basis for US depositors and even overseas for physical Federal Reserve notes, then audit the FED and, surprise, it is BK. We then wind down the FED, debt free, and get on with our lives.

  361. Essex says:

    370. Geez that is complicated. Nice day outside eh?

  362. grim says:

    Hey folks, sorry about the lack of updates. Things have been pretty crazy with my father. Surgery was a success and he is recovering, but there have been a few too many worries along the way.

  363. Essex says:

    Good to hear Grim! Be well.

  364. NJCoast says:


    Glad to hear dad is doing well.

  365. All "H-Train" Hype says:


    Good luck with your dad. Glad to hear the good news.

  366. Juice Springsteen HEHEHE says:

    Good luck my friend.

  367. Essex says:

    An idea whose time has come

    For too long we have been too complacent about the workings of Congress. Many citizens had no idea that members of Congress could retire with the same pay after only one term, that they didn’t pay into Social Security, that they specifically exempted themselves from many of the laws they have passed (such as being exempt from any fear of prosecution for sexual harassment) while ordinary citizens must live under those laws. The latest is to exempt themselves from the Healthcare Reform that is being considered…in all of its forms. Somehow, that doesn’t seem logical. We do not have an elite that is above the law. I truly don’t care if they are Democrat, Republican, Independent or whatever. The self-serving must stop. This is a good way to do that. It is an idea whose time has come.

    Have each person contact a minimum of Twenty people on their Address list, in turn ask each of those to do likewise.

    In three days, most people in The United States of America will have the message. This is one proposal that really should be passed around.

    Proposed 28th Amendment to the United States Constitution

    “Congress shall make no law that applies to the citizens of the United States that does not apply equally to the Senators and/or Representatives; and, Congress shall make no law that applies to the Senators and/or Representatives that does not apply equally to the citizens of the United States .”

  368. chicagofinance says:

    grim: good stuff…

  369. NJGator says:

    Grim – Glad to hear it. You and your dad are in our thoughts.

  370. Shore Guy says:


    Sorry to hear that your dad needed surgery but glad he is doing well. Losing a parent su-cks so I hope he is with you a good long time.

  371. NJGator says:

    Essex 368 – I see it a little differently. I don’t think anyone here (well most everyone) wishes suffering on anyone else, but it’s also not fair to ask or expect those who are suffering already to suffer even more so that a select few do not have to suffer at all.

  372. morpheus says:

    well, this goes under the heading “you can’t make this shit up!”.

    Get back from court to offer to buy lunch for one of the laid off associates. I made sure to include with the offer lots of alcohol. He declines and states “Something tragic is going to happen to me and I hope my life insurance pays off”. Needless to say, after consultation with some of my co-workers, I told TPTB in the firm about this. Head hatchet man stated “what does he expect us to do. He even talked about killing his family.” Disgusted at this man, I decide the need to have lunch out of the office. I had a really bad feeling.

    Have lunch with one of the surviving associates who informed me that head hatchet man told the laid off associate that he had to train one of remaining associates to do his job!

    It gets better, head hatchet man calls us and informs us that due to a brew-ha between one partner and the laid off associate, the police and a crisis intervention?? center were called and were at the office. Laid off associate denied making any statements that could lead one to think he could be a danger. I had to return to office to make a statement to police.

    Get to office and laid off associate were gone: transported to hospital.

    Realizing that when the laid off associate will be pissed off when released, I decided to get out of Dodge and bring work home. Hatchet man calls me and tells me to no longer talk to the other tenants in the building about what happened (I am friendly with all the tenants in the building .. . .I guess I am a likeable guy). I guess hatchet man is doing damage control.

    Additionally, laid off associate left what could be called ” a last goodbye” on his best friend’s cell phone.

    I did warn TPTB that he could snap. Now, I believe TPTB will want us to work longer and harder. Hard to do that when I will work thru this weekend and usually do some work on saturdays. Sorry. . . can’t give them any more than I am giving.

    When stuff falls through the cracks, I can see who will be blamed. Sad thing is that legal profession is still mired in the recession, so options are very limited.

    Seriously, can your employer expect you to work 7 days a week or am I just whining? I understand you do that with BigLaw firms and their corresponding big salaries, but . .shit. . .I work for a small firm!

    Thanks for letting me get this off my chest. OBTW, this associate is one of the associates who is well armed. I did give the partners grief about the shit they gave me about acquiring a FID. The response: well, you didn’t have a FID at the time.

    Hope the TPTB are not reading this, but it does help to talk about it. Need to vent.

  373. NJGator says:

    Note to self….short SunTrust?

    If You Were a Billionaire for Five Hours

    When Paul Fischer checked his bank account Friday night, he had a happy surprise. His balance had exploded to $88,888,888,888.88. A very lucky number indeed, and close to $89 billion.

    Of course, the balance was a technical error by SunTrust Bank (NYSE: STI – News), which quickly fixed the problem. It also may have occurred in other accounts.


  374. Shore Guy says:


    Now you too can feel as put upon as an AmLaw 100 or 50 associate.

    Time to visit ATL.

  375. morpheus says:

    ATL? what is that?

  376. morpheus says:


  377. Yikes says:

    Shore Guy says:
    April 1, 2010 at 9:07 am

    A flat tax, with the same rate for every type of income, would go a long way in making things fair. If there are no loopholes, those at the top will not be able to game the system.

    Come on, Shore – there are always loopholes. you know that. everyone cuts corners on everything when they can

  378. Yikes says:

    my issue w/ tax rates is that the spread needs to be much wider. there needs to be a “million and up” category.

    i’d say that categories should be 0-50k, 51-100k, 101-300k, 301-599k, 600-999k and 1 million+

    or something in that neighborhood.

    right now if the husband can make 100k, what is the incentive for the wife to even work?

  379. Al "The Thermostat" Gore says:


    Tragic story their morph. He is really going to be pissed if he gets a hospital bill after being 301’d.

    My local armory last month had a suicide at the range.

    There are worse things than being poor. Like Gerald Celente says when people lose everything they lose it.

  380. NJGator says:

    Kaye Scholer Shifts Pro Bono Associates Back to Doc Review
    And some reflections on the changing Biglaw business model.

    n the summer of 2008, Kaye Scholer’s New York office extended offers of full-time employment to 31 students, many from top schools. They would return to law school for their third years, they thought, then graduate, take the bar exam and begin at the firm in January 2010, at a base salary approximating the current level of $160,000.

    About two months before the start date, however, the firm notified 18 of the 31, a group including law graduates from Columbia, New York and Northwestern Universities, that they would be relegated, upon arrival, to the firm’s public interest group. There, they would work on pro bono matters and make $60,000 a year.

    All 18 accepted the revised offer.

    In March, about two months after starting, 17 of the 18 were assigned to a document review project, for a paying client, and told to bill 40 hours a week. For this, these associates will make an extra $30 an hour, approximately the hourly rate of their base salary.


  381. Essex says:

    382. Agreed. On that note I am attending my first BOE meeting. Had to hear the budget scenario for myself. As of now they are passing the hat to the State’s Millionaires.

  382. Al "The Thermostat" Gore says:


    I just read the online budget presentation for my town. They said they are cutting 1 million. Voting on 4/20.

    Projected cost per student is 12k. Enrollment down by 60. Local private school tuition 3,500.

    Guess I wont be shedding any tears when I punch my fist through the no button. Like I said its a municipal sport. Thank God for old folks and tea baggers.

    Maybe Ill just bayonet the voting machine instead.

  383. Mr Hyde says:


    why do you need different tax brackets?

    15% of 1 million is more then the guy/family making 100K makes in total. if everyone pays the same % then everyone provides proportionately.

    Turns the wheel back and exclude compensation for labor. then tax any other income at 20% across the board

    As soon as you introduce brackets you are begging for loopholes and you are also implying that some groups have a larger proportional responsibility then others because they were either lucky or exceptional.

  384. Mr Hyde says:


    best wishes for your fathers recovery!!!!

  385. Juice Box says:

    OMG Hyde on crack, like working for nothing? How about we revert to historical rates over the last 100 years where we did not have an enormous deficit and a weak currency.

  386. Mr Hyde says:


    nope, i was just recruited by doom. burn it to the ground!

    Oh and use shore’s plan for instituting the Third Bank of the United States and BK’ing the FED.

    We might as well make this interesting

  387. morpheus says:

    agreed: there are worse things than being poor. Glad I still remember those days.

    the associate is now in the hospital for a “few” days. This is not good. If he misses easter with his family, he is going to be pissed.

    This has the possibilty of escallating beyond the firm TPTB’s “ability” to control. We will be lucky to get out of this without anybody getting hurt

  388. renter says:

    Will the housing market slow down once the tax credit expires at month end? A neighbor just told me they were looking and everything they looked at sold quickly.

  389. Juice Box says:

    Hyde – I assure you burning the middle class to the ground only weakens your position however many rounds you have in your basement.

    Rethink it gordo, I know you know what is really going on, go back and read some Voltare for god’s sakes already.

  390. Mr Hyde says:


    not the middleclass, all of it.

    i have no illusions of my personal outcome in such a scenario.

    it must be all that cesium from the burning grounds

    happy april 1

  391. Juice Box says:

    Gordo – I remember the time we tried to rendezvous with the spook/ghost/sage of this board, but were rejected or dismissed ? Things are now as ever not as they seem. Go back to the 70s and read a book called Nixon’s Head, or Woodward’s All the President’s Men or annyting written in the 1980s about Banca Nazionale del Lavoro SpA out of Atlanta or worse….

    April is no fool…….FYI

  392. Essex says:

    394. $3500 whoa that is cheap. We are at the $10-23k mark up here.

  393. Barbara says:

    20k plus for kindergarten at Rutgers prep. Al is quoting christian/catholic school prices and even there he’s was too low, closer to 5-6k in middlesex county. Catholic HS, 10-12 k.

  394. Essex says:

    Fascinating scenario here in the Garden State. No doubt the factions are diametrically opposed. It is a shame.

  395. njescapee says:

    couple of my son’s friends attended rutgers prep for 12 yrs. more hype than substance. they are no different than the kids in public school: no discipline, dope smoking, drinking, etc. big waste of $ followed up with $40k / yr colleges. both doing techy work h1b workers that probably invested 2K for fake credentials

  396. njescapee says:

    oh yeah, one of the kids in the class was on the cast of Cosby show. big woop

  397. Juice Box says:

    rjescapee re: “both doing techy work h1b workers that probably invested 2K for fake credentials”

    I interviewed a man a decade ago for one these techy jobs. Let’s call him Pete.

    Well Pete brought a Mickey Dee Breakfast to the interview and proceeded to manja while I asked questions a child could answer.This was a decade ago but what the heck we are doomed eventually…..

  398. njescapee says:

    juice, sounds about right

  399. Shore Guy says:


    Oy! Do I have some stories like that. All good over a drink.

  400. Yikes says:

    Al “The Thermostat” Gore says:
    April 1, 2010 at 10:51 am

    Last year I rolled my 401k into an IRA and my gut told me to decline contributing for now. There is 15 trillion in private retirement savings and it increasingly looks like they are going to make a move for it.

    if Chi-Fi sees this, his head will explode. there is no way they can come after this.

  401. Al "The Thermostat" Gore says:


    What do you make of this?

    On Thursday morning March 25th, a large number of packages, each package being 80 pages, was sent to various parties. I cannot at this time give you who all the parties were. What I can tell you is, each senior Senator in each state was sent a copy, each Chief of the Joint Chiefs of Staff was sent a copy, the U.S. Sec. of State ( Hillary ), and the U.S. Attorney General ( Eric ) were on the list. There were others.
    The page includes the Declaration of Liberty and a copy of the page from each state, which was signed by 26 (actually 27 !) Grand Jurors.
    I can further tell you that the Senator is to take the Declaration and to present it to the Governor in each state. Then, in about 2 weeks, the Trustees for each state and the Governor, Sec. of State, and the Attorney General for each state are to be called together with a meeting with a Provost Marshal and several MPs. At that point, each state officer will be given a choice to either take a new oath of officer, as proscribed in the Declaration, or to clean out their office. If they refuse to do either, then the MPs are to immediately take them into custody.
    The military has said they fully support us, and have assigned an entire battalion of Provost Marshals to the cause.

    This is why the Nevada state capital was on lock down this am.

  402. Shore Guy says:

    Michael Steele is a gonner if this is what stays in the press for long:


  403. Essex says:

    Watching ‘W’ on cable now, never seen it. from the looks of things GW and I would have been fast friends. Don’t tell the wife tho.

  404. still_looking aka Tan-Less says:

    File this under Ohmyfu.ckingGod! I give you our ever intelligent, esteemed government representative.

    God help us all.


  405. njescapee says:

    That movie W left me feeling sad for the USA. He is such as pathetic sad sack.

  406. Shore Guy says:

    “Nom, What do you make of this? On Thursday morning March 25th, a large number of packages, each package being 80 pages, was sent to various parties.”

    Delivered by UFO?

  407. Shore Guy says:


    Of course it won’t tip over. It might sink or float away, I have heard, lol.

  408. njescapee says:

    Still, re: 419 guess he’s been testing medicinal marijuana

  409. Final Doom says:

    Redeem your straw man in due course!

  410. Shore Guy says:

    W was a joke of a president and it is a pathetic thing that he got nominated, let alone elected. He is probably a nice and gracious guy, in a used_car_salesman sort of way, but nobody like him should be president. As much as I dislike B.O., and I do, B.O. is a superior person for the office, even though his policies are bad for the country.

  411. Final Doom says:

    Hope your pops is feeling good, grim.

  412. njescapee says:

    Shore, Im guessing that Jeb would have been a good president. I think he did a fine job as our governor. and no, I don’t want to see another Bush in power.

  413. Shore Guy says:

    “Declaration of Liberty ”

    Sounds like a story Rep. Hank Johnson thought of after smoking a fat one with Jeff Spicoli.

    “Dude! Like, there is this Declaration of Liberty, man. And, these aliens, dude, stop looking at me like that man, I am totally, totally serious. So, anyway, these aliens… let me have another hit of that… they come swooping down in this intergalactic FedEx truck with these documents for like every governor dude. Man, this is some tasty stuff, man. Yo, Speaker Pelosi, you got any twinkies over there?”

  414. Shore Guy says:

    Jeb was the smart one, and now has zero chance of ever getting into the WH. It is kind of par for the American political system, though. We tend not to elect smart.

  415. still_looking aka Tan-Less says:

    Am I off-base here? This idiot is allowed to vote on policies for the rest of us…

    Please? Someone? Are they all this fu.cking stupid??

    (I know, why do I even ask…) WTF??? ah fu.ck, time for scotch.


  416. Al "The Thermostat" Gore says:



    Go have a conversation with Frank Pallone. The answer is primarily yes.

  417. njescapee says:

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    McFadden is also remembered for his criticism of the Federal Reserve, which he claimed was created and operated by European banking interests who conspired to economically control the United States. On June 10, 1932, McFadden made a 25-minute speech before the House of Representatives[2] , in which he accused the Federal Reserve of deliberately causing the Great Depression. McFadden also claimed that Wall Street bankers funded the Bolshevik Revolution through the Federal Reserve banks and the European central banks with which it cooperated. McFadden moved to impeach President Herbert Hoover in 1932, and also introduced a resolution bringing conspiracy charges against the Board of Governors of the Federal Reserve. The impeachment resolution was defeated by a vote of 361 to 8.”

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