BoA moves towards short sales

From HousingWire:

Bank of America Puts Short Sales Ahead of REO

Bank of America, one of the largest lenders in the U.S., has instituted a policy of liquidating as many assets saddled with defaulted loans as possible before repossession, said Matt Vernon, the short sale and REO executive at BofA.

Vernon took the position at BofA in February. He has since announced plans to add 1,000 employees to the short sale staff. BofA currently holds more than 477,000 loans eligible for the Home Affordable Modification Program (HAMP), and has provided more than 600,000 modifications through HAMP and its own programs.

But Vernon said BofA will continue to make the short sale push when he spoke on a panel at REO Expo, being held this week in Dallas.

“We’re going to do everything possible to liquidate property prior to foreclosure,” Vernon said. “REO will still be available, but we will do everything we can to do short sales.” Vernon said the goal is to get as close to market value as possible, or even over market value. “Short sales is not an investment strategy to get homes on the cheap,” he said.

The Treasury Department launched the Home Affordable Foreclosure Alternatives (HAFA) program in April to provide incentives to servicers to provide short sales and deeds-in-lieu of foreclosure.

“Because of programs like HAFA, the process is getting easier,” Washburn said. “But they remain very complex. There are sometimes 10 decision makers with just one transaction, the lender, the buyer, the seller, mortgage insurer, investors and more. Just one of them can stop the whole deal.”

Milton Shaw, senior vice president of LPS Asset Management Solutions, said modifications and short sales through HAMP or HAFA could just be delaying the inevitable foreclosure and REO process, and the real estate business is growing frustrated with the delays.

“There’s just been an incredible amount of frustration,” Shaw said.

This entry was posted in Housing Bubble, National Real Estate, Risky Lending. Bookmark the permalink.

236 Responses to BoA moves towards short sales

  1. grim says:

    Vernon said the goal is to get as close to market value as possible, or even over market value.

    When is a policy not a policy?

    Unless of course, they are talking about ACTUAL market value, not some pie-in-the-sky number more representative of 2005.

    Nah… They aren’t just going to give it away.

  2. Mr Hyde says:

    Grim

    market value as stated in their mark-to-fantasy portfolio?

  3. grim says:

    From the WSJ:

    Fed Study Finds ‘Real’ Homeownership Rate

    The U.S. homeownership rate, already down two percentage points from its 2006 peak of 69%, could fall by another five percentage points over the coming years to levels last seen in the mid-1990s, says a staff report from the Federal Reserve Bank of New York.

    The study looks at the number of homeowners who are underwater, owing more than their homes are worth, and excludes them from the official homeownership rate calculated every quarter by the Census Bureau.

    While the official figure stood at 67.2% at the end of last year, the authors produce their own estimate of an “effective” homeownership rate. The difference between the official and effective homeownership rates, or what the authors dub the “homeownership gap,” is around 5.6 percentage points for the nation as a whole, which means the effective rate of homeownership is closer to 62%.

    The effective rate of homeownership doesn’t imply that all underwater borrowers will lose their homes; instead, it suggests that they won’t act as traditional homeowners do. Government policy over the past two decades focused on growing the rate of homeownership for public policy reasons: Homeowners, the argument went, were more invested in maintaining not only their properties, but also their communities.

    The effective homeownership rate serves as a “good guide to the future path of the official rate” because many underwater homeowners are simply renters-in-waiting, write authors Andrew Haughwout, Richard Peach and Joseph Tracy of the New York Fed. “Unless house prices increase substantially, many negative equity homeowners will in fact convert to renters in the years ahead, and the measured rate of homeownership will decline toward the effective rate.”

  4. Outstanding site, where did you come up with the info in this piece of writing? Im glad I found it though, ill be checking back soon to see what other articles you have.

  5. Fleming says:

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  6. Fleming says:

    ut.iy.uf,klut.7e7u

  7. NJGator says:

    For those of you who missed Stu’s announcement yesterday, the Gator family is now officially a dual commuting family again as of today. Am now even more thankful that my inner uber-b*tch had put the kibosh on a move to Morris County where we’d now be looking at about $800/month in commuting expenses and hunting for a babysitter to pick Lil Gator up after day care. Looks like Essex County has locked us in her warm embrace (well more like trapped us) for many years to come.

  8. Final Doom says:

    “Vernon said the goal is to get as close to market value as possible, or even over market value.”

    Yeah. 3-4 years’ worth of deferred maintenance, black mold, rot, broken/stolen appliances and a yard full of weeds definitely gets you top price in this market.

    Best of all is the “SHORT SALE” rider on the agent’s yard sign. Nothing like that to put those lowballing buyers on notice that top dollar must be paid.

    Yet another example here of how fuct we truly are.

  9. Final Doom says:

    Breathe deeply, and you can detect a faint whiff of the stench of death in the coming oblivion.

  10. cooper says:

    #3
    “The study looks at the number of homeowners who are underwater, owing more than their homes are worth, and excludes them from the official homeownership rate calculated every quarter by the Census Bureau. ”

    why stop there? anyone who holds a mortgage shouldn’t be considered an owner… what does the ownership rate drop to then?

  11. Final Doom says:

    Our children’s children will be slaves of the state.

  12. MSP says:

    Anybody have any suggestions on how to get a seller to move up a closing date? We tried offering a lease and occupancy, but seller’s attorney balked. Want to move it up because mortgage rate lock issues, concerns about how the property is being maintained and need to take care of some exterior issues before the weather turns.

  13. Cindy says:

    http://www.newyorker.com/talk/financial/2010/06/14/100614ta_talk_surowiecki

    Regulation – James Surowiecki

    “If we want our regulators to do better, we have to embrace a simple idea: regulation isn’t an obstacle to thriving free markets; it’s a vital part of them.”

  14. Mr Wantanapolous says:

    “Vernon said the goal is to get as close to market value as possible, or even over market value.”

    Idiot. Try hitting the bid. Pet.com stockholders are also hoping for $11 a share.

  15. Barbara says:

    8. Doom
    I can’t make sense of the entire press release. Are they trying to motivate buyers? Are they putting buyers on notice that they won’t get it “on the cheap”?
    Do they love us, hate us? I can’t go on like this. Isn’t their a Foreigner tune that sort this all out? I’d like to think that there is.

  16. Barbara says:

    there

  17. Cindy says:

    http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601039&sid=aDqGneoy9vj8

    I Pledge to Write Funnier Columns on Goldman: Michael Lewis

    Oaths…

  18. Barbara says:

    that CAN sort this all out. I speak Engrish.

  19. Confused in NJ says:

    11.Final Doom says:
    June 9, 2010 at 7:19 am
    Our children’s children will be slaves of the state.

    That ship has sailed, they already are.

  20. homeboken says:

    Vernon is such a sharp guy, brand new title and increased responsibilities. He’ll nmake sure those buyers know who is dictating the terms. Until underwater lenders are ready to recognize their losses, this whole idea of liquidation is a sham. BofA isn’t there yet, they may never get there, the “there” in this situation equates to losses that are not acceptable.

  21. House Whine says:

    7- Gator- Good luck. As they say, life is what happens while you are busy making plans. Our Plans A and B are not panning out, so now it’s on to Plan C? Oh, yeah, we didn’t have a Plan C.

  22. Cindy says:

    http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSN0817622320100608

    NY court allows Cuomo suit over bogus home appraisals

  23. Confused in NJ says:

    HARARE, Zimbabwe – A farmers’ organization says a new surge of violence erupted on 16 farms across Zimbabwe in the past week as loyalists of President Robert Mugabe try to seize more land.

    The Commercial Farmers Union, representing some 300 white farmers still on their properties, says crops and equipment have been looted. In eastern Zimbabwe, a black farm foreman was beaten unconscious in the same Manicaland district a farmer’s wife was barricaded into her homestead and given four hours to leave.

    Both incidents took place Tuesday, union leader Charles Taff said Wednesday. He said police have not responded to calls for help.

    No comment was immediately available from police. In often violent land seizures since 2000, about 4,000 white farmers have been removed from their land.

    The ACLU doesn’t seem to care about this at all? Wonder why?

  24. Cindy says:

    Very political – ah heck, I’ll post it anyway…

    “The Alien in the White House”

    http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703302604575294231631318728.html?mod=WSJ_hp_mostpop_read

  25. Cindy says:

    http://www.calculatedriskblog.com/2010/06/mba-mortgage-purchase-applications_09.html

    From Calculated Risk

    MBA: Mortgage Purchase Applications Decline 35% over last four weeks”

    “The purchase index has collapsed following the expiration of the tax credit suggesting home sales will fall sharply too. This is the lowest level for the purchase index since 1997.”

  26. Final Doom says:

    We’re not going to be done in by radical Islam.

    We’re doing it to ourselves.

  27. Mr Hyde says:

    COnfused 19

    WWIII may be in our great grand children’s best interest as it would most likely hit the reset button on their future indentured servitude.

  28. Confused in NJ says:

    24. Well at least “O” found GB’s “Evil Doers”. In the words of Pogo, “We have found the enemy, and it is US”. The Ugly American rides again.

  29. Juice Box says:

    lol

    Billboard Puts Obama on $100,000,000,000,000 Bill, Asks: ‘But Who Will Pay the Piper?’

    http://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/67259

  30. Juice Box says:

    re: #22 – Cindy the appraisers notified the FED, Congress and the Attorney generals of several states a decade ago.

    See original pepetion and comments and actual signers at:

    http://appraiserspetition.com/

    All fell on deaf ears.

  31. Mr Hyde says:

    Cindy 24

    I just read the linked article

    “violent extremists are victims of political, economic and social forces.”

    If only the poor jihadists had Obama care, a puppy dog, and a little leauge baseball trophy the whole middleast conflict could have been avoided. Those guys with guns and bombs are the real VICTIMS!!!!

    ….ROFLMAO…..going to call Nom, need to get working on plan B

  32. Escape from NJ says:

    I have made an offer on a BOA short sale. Their appraiser just inspected the prop the other day. Cannot wait to receive their opinion as to fair value.

  33. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [31] hyde

    I saw that too.

    “And who can forget the exhortations on jihad by John Brennan, Mr. Obama’s chief adviser on counterterrorism? . . . . Mr. Brennan held forth fervently, if not quite comprehensibly, on who our enemy was not: “Our enemy is not terrorism because terrorism is just a tactic. Our enemy is not terror because terror is a state of mind, and as Americans we refuse to live in fear.”

    He went on to announce, sternly, that we do not refer to our enemies as Islamists or jihadists because jihad is a holy struggle, a legitimate tenet of Islam. How then might we be permitted to describe our enemies? One hint comes from another of Mr. Brennan’s pronouncements in that speech: That “violent extremists are victims of political, economic and social forces.”

    Yes, that would work. Consider the news bulletins we could have read: “Police have arrested Faisal Shahzad, victim of political, economic and social forces living in Connecticut, for efforts to set off a car bomb explosion in Times Square.”

  34. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [31] hyde

    Doom said it best. We are not a nation of laws any longer. We are a nation of feelings.

  35. newbie says:

    #23 confused,
    ACLU stands for American Civil Liberties Union not Zimbabwe.

  36. Barbara says:

    32. Escape from NJ
    Please report when you get it. Many of us here are resigned to the fact that the only sale is a short sale (or auction, REO) and will be curious as to how you are treated at each step of the process.

  37. Mr Hyde says:

    Nom

    “Our enemy is not terrorism because terrorism is just a tactic. Our enemy is not terror because terror is a state of mind,

    That i agree with.

    Our enemy is not terror because terror is a state of mind, and as Americans we refuse to live in fear

    That is 100% BS. Fear the cup du jour of American society. What is the patriot act if not an embodiment of that public fear. It pervades our society. Terrorism only works when the target population embraces fear.

  38. Confused in NJ says:

    35.newbie says:
    June 9, 2010 at 10:30 am
    #23 confused,
    ACLU stands for American Civil Liberties Union not Zimbabwe

    If you turn the clock back they were very vocal about Apartheid in Rhodesia, yet silent now. Seems like they should either venture no opinion or be consistent.

  39. Escape from NJ says:

    Barb,

    Brief history, my offer was made in Jan. to the seller. The sellers first atty had no clue about a short sale. BOA sat waiting for tax credit to expire and the new short sale rules to go into effect. I am now dealing with the Equator system. Any realtors on the board ever deal with Equator?

  40. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [23] confused

    Even if it were here, the property rights of americans are not the concern of the ACLU.

    And especially not americans of the persuasion being oppressed in Zimbabwe.

    However, I am not concerned about that happening here. Something tells me that urban hordes that descend on rural america to redistribute property, even if backed by the junta in DC, will develop unhealthy levels of lead poisoning.

  41. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [38] confused

    I’ve dealt with the ACLU. They have constituency and it doesn’t consist of all americans. Pretty easy to figure out who is and isn’t in that constituency. Only one sense needed.

    The only way ACLU would represent me in anything was if I were a nazi being denied free speech rights.

  42. Barbara says:

    Escape,
    this is my biggest concern, the time. We needed to move, like yesterday. As frustrated as we are, we won’t pay 2006 prices.

  43. sas says:

    “Former Obama apartment hits the market

    The ‘Obama apartment’ near Columbia University on New York’s Upper West Side is a steal at $1,900 a month.The future president shared it with a roommate in 1981 while studying political science.”
    http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Politics/The-Vote/2010/0609/Former-Obama-apartment-hits-the-market

  44. Shore Guy says:

    ““Vernon said the goal is to get as close to market value as possible, or even over market value.”

    And many a man’s goal is to sleep with Sela Ward but to settle with whomever.

  45. sas says:

    “The ‘Obama apartment’ near Columbia University on New York’s Upper West”

    Its not upper west side, its morningside heights or Bloomingdale area.

    and that building is right near a major drug corner hub that feeds Washington heights and the Bronx, w109th St & Columbus Ave.

    It was a war zone in 81. I can only imagine how much “recreational drug use” Omama must have done. oh well….maybe didn’t inhale.

    SAS

  46. Mr Hyde says:

    SAS

    They have got to keep that personality cult going strong.

    All hail bojangles!

  47. sas says:

    “It was a war zone in 81.”

    i remember people would bring car into the alleys and torch’em.

    that was something, and no fire response whatsoever.

    SAS

  48. Letarded Libtard says:

    >Well at least “O” found GB’s “Evil Doers”. <

    Confused,

    During GWB, the Enemy was radical Islam that tried to kill everybody. Now, the Enemy is a middle-class american who may show up at Town Hall meetings. Change!

  49. Mr Hyde says:

    SAS

    Have any lines on a dependable dealer? mine got busted the other day and i need a new guy?

  50. Mr Hyde says:

    /joking

  51. sas3 says:

    Nom/Jamil: Where is Faux on the Zimbabwe issue — other than use it as a point to take a dig at Obama?

  52. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [47] sas

    Getting that way everywhere, esp. with police.

    Unless they are in ticket-writing mode (which is why so many people in tony suburbs have magnets for local schools on their cars—it’s to signal cops that they are locals), cops are tuning out due to the antipathy toward government workers and the perceived assault on their privileged status.

    I have long observed this phenomenon, and this downturn is no exception. Only problem is, in NJ you can’t bring your own protection.

  53. Shore Guy says:

    “Cannot wait to receive their opinion as to fair value”

    As Sam Gompers would say: More.

  54. Mr Hyde says:

    Nom 52

    Would it ever be realistically possible to run a political coup to reverse that?

  55. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [51] sas3

    I haven’t seen any story on Zimbabwe in MSM, let alone Fox.

    Seems to me that this is a pretty banal foreign news story. Hard to see link to Chairman O. If Fox used it to take a dig at Dear Leader, link up the story.

  56. Shore Guy says:

    Nom,

    I am not always happy with the ACLU but, two words make clear the need for a strong ACLU: Palmer Raids. Oh, two others come to mind, Dick Cheney.

    Heck, John Yoo, John Ashcroft, Jl Edgar Hoover, etc., also come to mind. There are knuckleheaded positions that come out if the ACLU, for which they do deserve to be criticized, but they play an important role.

    Heck, any NRA member wuld be well served by also being a member of the ACLU. Constitutional Rights are Constitutional Rights, whether Fifth Amendment, Fourth Amendment, or Second Amendment, and ALL governments tend to accumulate power at the expense of individual rights, “in the interest of the people” of course.

  57. jj says:

    I love GM, in a sick love hate way. So wifes 5 year old truck is in for inspection and oil change. I pick it up late and guy who sold it to me remembers me and starts asking how it is running etc. I tell him the thing runs like brand new. My wife only drives local so it only has 18K miles and no problems at all.

    Guy looked really disappointed. I tell him look I will come back to you for a brand new one no problem. But unless it gets totaled or my wife starts driving it more that won’t be for a very long time. Then he tells me about some new models that are selling really well and he leaves like a jilted lover.

    Guy sounded depressed cause my wifes truck at 18k miles is not falling apart so I would buy a new one. Hey buddy if wife’s truck was falling apart at 18K miles do you think she would ever buy a GM product in her life again? Unless that puppy is over ten years old or 100k miles before it has big problems you ain’t getting me to buy a new one. Guy should have been trying to sell me one. Not getting wife to replace a truck with 18k miles.

    Funny wife wanted a Toyota or Honda Truck as she likes Japanese. We bought this doing employee pricing for 15k less than the equivalent Jap trucks and wife said I am saving 15k if I have problems I will just buy extended warranty and dump car before that expires and have saved 15k so why not. Then she fell in love with it and now stupid GM is hexing her, look guys during employee pricing and cash for clunkers you got some jap loving car buyers looking to save 10K don’t be scaring us off by trying to sell us new cars so soon.

  58. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [54] Hyde

    It is, but it requires big brass ones, and should be done more or less anonymously.

    Most obvious is to turn out incumbents and replace them. Good luck with that. More directed efforts are needed.

    One warning shot would be to get a sympathetic legislator to float a bill to reduce forces on the theory that if police (and we will say state police here) aren’t making roads and cities safer, we don’t need quite so many of them. Good luck with that.

    In a small town, a drastic solution, but one with better chances of success, would be to disband the department. Typically though, this problem doesn’t exist in smaller towns. So there is no need and no political will. Don’t waste your time.

    Better measures would be for folks to urge Christie to appoint local judges that will approve carry permits on the theory that if the cops won’t do their jobs, citizens should not suffer. Or, using the same rationale, get sympathetic legislators to float a bill to liberalize carry permits (“shall issue”?). The bill would have a fact finding that points to higher crime and police nonresponsiveness as a basis for the need.

    Whatever you do, take any political stickers off your car that are likely to offend the cops. Otherwise, you will be financing the state deficit.

  59. sas3 says:

    Nom… I meant that if Faux were to cover it, they’d use it as a means for taking a dig at O. Jamil’s straw man argument of ACLU being silent on it was very lame.

    Since I was responding to Jamil’s rant and your comment on ACLU, and since I think the news story does not need some major coverage on US TV, … we can end the thread.

  60. jj says:

    ACORN is at least named correctly, they are a bunch of nuts.

  61. Mr Hyde says:

    Nom,

    I dont plan to run any such campaign. Just curious about the political realm. Its very much not my cup of tea

  62. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [56] shore

    You need not worry that ACLU will be vigilant against any perceived overreach by a white or conservative in power. They are all over that.

    But don’t hold your breath waiting for ACLU to recognize the 2nd Amendment as a civil right worthy of protection in the same manner (or any manner) as the First, Fourth or Fifth.

  63. Escape from NJ says:

    Bard,

    I am in a rental so time is a minor factor. However it is a little silly that it is taking this long. I believe that my offer (a low ball from the asking price) is fair. It is not my fault the seller used the house as an atm. BOA will most likely not see it this way.

  64. Mr Hyde says:

    Nom,

    One day when i am fabulously wealthy and living in canada perhaps i will hire you to run a PAC for that

  65. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [56] shore

    Also, where was the ACLU when there were some very clear and egregious violations of Fourth Amendment protections under Clinton by federal officers?

    Fed raids under Clinton went well beyond Ruby Ridge and Waco. But this went largely unreported.

    ACLU’s response can be summed up here:

  66. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [64] hyde

    If you were fabulously wealthy, I would not counsel you to live in Canada.]

    I’d counsel you to get canadian citizenship and live here part of the year, and part of the year elsewhere (say, Australia).

    Then your income is largely tax free.

  67. peter says:

    i also had to laugh when i saw BOFA spokesman’s comment on how short sales won’t be bargains.

    I’d like you regulars, however, to enlighten me about the shoertsale process. nothing in my nyc nabe is listed as short sale and and prices are still bizarrely high and really not selling. I have cash, I have time and I want to buy to live in a house long long term. Where and how do you get started finding short sales if they’re not listed?

  68. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [59] sas3

    “I meant that if Faux were to cover it, they’d use it as a means for taking a dig at O.”

    I think that is a stretch. Not every news story carries a theme that can be stretched to cover your president. And I haven’t seen them try.

    “Jamil’s straw man argument of ACLU being silent on it was very lame.”

    Must agree. Don’t know what that had to do with ACLU.

  69. Sas3 says:

    Nom, since wealth and income can be easily decoupled, one can easily reduce tax impact without much effort — but loads of Cisco or Google stock, or shiny, or something that is not taxed. One can reduce your “income” and “property” drastically, and pay almost minimal taxes. Of course, one’s passing away will then be a net positive for the economy.

  70. Shore Guy says:

    Nom,

    It doesn’t matter whether Constitutional violations occur under Dem or a Rep, they must be opposed. Unfortunately, we have gotten into a pattern where R’s support everything (not everything but close enough for this example) R presidents do and Ds support what D presidents do and each oppose everything the other does. Add to that we have had Congress after Congress that abdicated responsibility for protecting Congressional rights and that failed to hold the executive to account for a host of improper behavior.

    I am a Republican and I expect Republican presidents to live up to the same standards that Republicans hold Democratic Presidents. Democrats should do the same. This whole “If our guy does it it is okay but if their guy does it it is a crime” mentality is tearing the nation apart.

  71. jamil says:

    sastry:
    “Jamil’s straw man argument of ACLU being silent on it was very lame.”

    ACLU is corrupt fringe-left organization, but when did I opinion on its stance on Z?
    Unfortunately, some of use have to work to support the parasites, can’t comment on every leftists hypocrisy here..

  72. Shore Guy says:

    As for short sales, they seem to be more a pain than they are worth. It seems so much easier and quicker to buy REO instead.

    Clot, thoughts?

  73. Simply Ravishing HEHEHE says:

    Ben Bernanke says recovery is on track!!! Stock market to the moon BABY!!!!

  74. Pat says:

    peter, I noticed the listing pics on the kw database now include a green banner for short sales so you don’t have to click on the description. These are not all short sales, but you can get an idea of neighborhoods with a lot of short sales.

    ex: go to kw dot com. Type in bronx, ny and in the drop down, pick min 20, max 100. In the results, you’ll see a short sale banner on a 86k listing.

  75. meter says:

    @23 –

    “The ACLU doesn’t seem to care about this at all? Wonder why?”

    Because ACLU starts with an A and not a Z?

  76. peter says:

    thanks, Pat.

  77. sas3 says:

    #71… My mistake. Apologies. It was Confused’s rant.

  78. jamil says:

    70 Shore “I am a Republican and I expect Republican presidents to live up to the same standards that Republicans hold Democratic Presidents”

    Shore, stop, you are killing me.

    You have been drooling over every issue of Obamaweek and copy-pasting constitutional analysis and other legal issues from there since day 1. You have been exposed as hyperbolic Obama-drooling activist. You had no problem Obama ordering extrajudicial killings of US citizens or dem president nuking cities here and there but some legal opinion for GOP president, consistent with decades of DOJ opinions, is “the biggest threat to this country” and warrants illegal witch hunt.

    What goes around comes around. When GOP gets power, I advocate that they go after you and your ilk (using Yoo witch trials as the model). New DOJ should demand every blog post and legal opinion from you in the last 10 years, then second-guess everything and declare that you are providing illegal legal advise and you should be disbarred and jailed. Naturally, IRS does audits and gets your laptops and everything. After few years harassing you in the witch trials, President Palin simply orders you killed. No trials or DOJ opinions needed for that. And all this is constitutional and great legal practise according to you!

    Isn’t it great?

  79. nj escapee says:

    our gubmint and big bidness just one big happy family

    BP lobbied for tax hikes, stimulus, Wall Street bailout…

    http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/politics/Once-a-government-pet-BP-now-a-capitalist-tool-95942659.html

  80. sas says:

    ACLU

    American criminal and lawyers united.

    ha ha..arrr..!
    SAS

  81. make money says:

    http://clients.automanager.com/Scripts/VehiclePhotos.aspx?VID=b4eb0e0fc16d44488628809276e4c3f8&PID=1

    John,

    Better and cheaper then a 5 series. They’re asking 44K. Thought you might like it.

  82. wtf says:

    (70) Wow, a Republican with principles. Shore Guy, you are a dying breed.

  83. Shore Guy says:

    ” a Republican with principles”

    And I watch the party I knew and joined morph into something else. Where is the attention to sound fiscal policy?

  84. Mr Hyde says:

    Shore

    Where is the attention to sound fiscal policy?

    Careful, your dating yourself with such statements……

  85. Shore Guy says:

    From CBS News:

    U.S.: Oil Response Progressing, Help on the Way

    WASHINGTON, June 9, 2010

    Help is on the way to bolster the work being done to contain the crude spewing from the bottom of the Gulf of Mexico, including a tanker from the North Sea that will provide an important assist, the point man for the government’s response to the disaster said Wednesday. The current containment system is catching 630,000 gallons daily, Coast Guard Adm. Thad Allen said at a news briefing in Washington.

    snip

  86. Shore Guy says:

    So, at 42 gal/bbl, that is, what, 15,000 bbl/day? And, there is still a boatload of oil escaping , right?

    So, how friggen big is this leak folks?

  87. Shore Guy says:

    “your dating yourself with such statements”

    Sad but true.

  88. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [69] sas3

    That’s an excessively simplified view, but essentially correct.

    The US taxes income, not static wealth (except for the estate tax). This has always been used to avoid some level of taxation.

    Many times, the US has toyed with the idea of taxing static wealth. They usually failed because of the giant sucking sound they would create.

    BTW, I expect that we will hear some of that sucking sound grow louder over the next few months, and I expect a big 6039G number for the quarter ended 12/31/10.

    BTW, for years, there has been a persistent rumor in expat tax circles that the IRS is deliberately holding down this number. For my part, I can’t see how or why. Rather, I think that there has been considerable capital flight but no corresponding renunciations because there has been no pressing need. The spike now and in the future won’t be because suddenly the wealthy are leaving (they’ve been doing that), but now they are turning in those passports because enforcement has gotten that much better.

  89. Shore Guy says:

    BBC Home > BBC News > Europe
    Menu
    Immigrant youths riot in Sweden, burning down school
    09 June 10 15:31 GMT

    Rioters in the Swedish capital, Stockholm, have burned down a school building and thrown stones at police in a second night of disturbances.
    The trouble began on Monday after a group of youths in a suburb with a mainly immigrant population were refused entry to a school dance.
    Police say up to 100 youths went on the rampage, throwing stones and setting several cars alight.
    Two people were detained but later released.
    ‘Little Mogadishu’
    Police said the rioters threw stones at the fire engines, preventing them from reaching the school building before it burned to the ground. The youths also attacked a police station.
    Rinkeby is home to a large number of first- and second-generation immigrants. Many of them are from Somalia, so the area is sometimes nicknamed Little Mogadishu.

    snip

  90. Mr Hyde says:

    Shore,

    Estimates are that about 20,000 – 30,000 BPD is flowing from the well head. they are catching 15,000 and the other 5 – 15, 000 is lost to the sea.

    Best case scenario is that the leak is plugged in september. The best case for the relief wells is for the drilling to be comleted in late august. Pumping the kill shot into the ruptured well fromt he relief well could take a few weeks, so mid to late september is the best case for the oil flow being shut down.

    Lets say 14 more weeks of oil spew at 10,000 BPD… thats another 140,000 barrels of oil BEST CASE.

    If a hurricane comes along the current containment device will have to be disconnected so that the ships can leave.

    That is also best case. Median case is probably a full shutdown of the well sometime around Dec – Jan.

    Dont forget that satellite and surface analysis provides circumstantial evidence that the oil has worked its way up through weak rock due to ruptured casing/bad cement. The size of the underwater plumes are probably way to large to have been generated by the well head alone. if thats the case the amount coming out of the well head is the “small” leak.

    Dont expect BP of the GOV to looking for those other leaks as there is nothing they can do about them until the bottom kill is completed and those leaks would make the well head look like a drippy faucet.

  91. jamil says:

    Nom,

    ” but no corresponding renunciations because there has been no pressing need”

    Is the list of renunciations somewhere? I have easy way of checking if they have included everybody..I suspect that not.

  92. Mr Hyde says:

    Shore,

    The leaking well is one of BP’s shallower deepwater wells at only 13,000 ft below the ground, 18,000 ft below sea level.

    Many of its bigger wells are around 30,000 ft below sea level and much larger oil formations. This could have been an order of magnitude worse.

    No one has ever attempted to drill a relief well and perform a bottom kill at 30,000 ft. there are questions on if it can be done with current tech and how long it would take.

  93. Mr Hyde says:

    Shore 90,

    The real fun in europe is going to be the culture wars, and they wont be cold by any means. It poses the potential of devolving into quite a nasty regional cultural/religious conflict.

  94. Anon E. Moose says:

    Shore [90];

    That writer should be in Cirque du Soleil or a PT Barnum side show. I can’t imagine how else he could have contorted the story to avoid mentioning the common religion of the rioters (youths, immigrants, Solmalia, Little Mogadishu).

  95. zieba says:

    Make (82),

    Such a timeless design; just gorgeous.

  96. Mr Hyde says:

    Nom,

    What of this?

    Swiss MPs reject UBS-US tax deal
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/10264253.stm

  97. Mr Hyde says:

    Moose 95

    Well what else are you supposed to do when denied entry to a dance? You wouldnt burn the MoFo down or riot for 2 nights.

  98. Fabius Maximus says:

    Chi,

    To go with your Lyndhust GTG for Fish and Chips.

    presale until 2am EST tonight, http://gousabid.com/USA-Brazil

    You might even get Clot to show.

  99. Qwerty says:

    Oilbama to give $400 million to hamas-controlled Gaza

    http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=TX-PAR-BXL96&show_article=1

  100. Fabius Maximus says:

    #66 Nom,

    I seem some Wesley Snipes sized holes in that strategy.

  101. Simply Ravishing HEHEHE says:

    Beige Book for NYC Area (wait until the next one after the housing rebate expiry)

    “Construction and Real Estate
    Housing markets have been steady to somewhat firmer since the last report, with the gains largely attributed to the soon-to-expire home-buyer tax credit spurring demand at the lower end. Realtors across New York State report that sales activity was roughly 20 percent higher in April than a year earlier and prices were up about 8 percent on average. Similarly, Buffalo-area Realtors report that home sales were brisk in April, and that prices were up more than 10 percent from a year earlier, though conditions are reported to have cooled off dramatically in May, due to the end of the tax credit. An authority on New Jersey’s housing industry also reports a moderate pickup in sales activity this quarter, particularly at the lower end of the market–again, largely attributed to the home-buyer tax credit. In other segments of northern New Jersey’s market, prices are essentially flat, and price trends are not as robust as builders and developers had expected, as a large “shadow inventory” of existing homes is said to be weighing down the market. There is concern that conditions will weaken again in the third quarter, without the support of the home-buyer tax credit. Housing affordability remains a major issue.

    Activity in Manhattan’s co-op and condo market has leveled off, following a modest pickup in the first quarter. The pace of new contract signings has retreated a bit in recent weeks, while prices have held steady at about 20-30 percent below their peak. There remains a large supply of units on the markets, though one contact notes that the inventory of competitively priced units is fairly lean. While the home-buyer tax credit has had little impact on Manhattan’s high-priced market, it has reportedly had a positive effect elsewhere in New York City, where prices are considerably more moderate. Manhattan’s apartment rental market has strengthened since the last report. Rents have recovered modestly, and landlords are offering less generous concessions than last year or even a few months ago. The inventory of available rental units has stabilized.

    Commercial real estate markets in and around New York City have been relatively steady since the last report. Leasing activity, which was very depressed throughout most of 2009, has picked up noticeably since the beginning of this year and is now back up to “normal” levels. Much of the recent pickup has come from legal firms and, to a lesser extent, from business services, media, and government agencies; in contrast, there has been a dearth of new leasing by financial firms. Still, vacancy rates continue to edge up, as businesses tend to be taking less space than they had at prior locations. Asking rents continue to drift down but appear to be bottoming; net effective rents have been stable since last summer, as landlords have gradually scaled back on concessions.”

    http://www.federalreserve.gov/fomc/beigebook/2010/20100609/2.htm

  102. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [101] fabius

    Care to elaborate?

  103. Final Doom says:

    escape (39)-

    You circle the planet- via the equator- before BAC makes a decision or gives you a straight answer.

    “Brief history, my offer was made in Jan. to the seller. The sellers first atty had no clue about a short sale. BOA sat waiting for tax credit to expire and the new short sale rules to go into effect. I am now dealing with the Equator system. Any realtors on the board ever deal with Equator?”

  104. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [92] jamil

    Stick this phrase in your browswer”

    “Quarterly Publication of Individuals, Who Have Chosen To Expatriate, as Required by Section 6039G”

    [97] hyde

    Yes, that will lead to a small diplomatic kerfluffle.

  105. sas3 says:

    Qwerty… nice headline but context? How much did earlier admins give per year? How much does Israel itself give per year to Gaza?

    S

  106. Final Doom says:

    escape (63)-

    The only consideration BAC should have is whether or not they have a better offer than yours in hand (or any other offer, for that matter).

    If not, guess what? Your offer represents current market value.

    Of course, I did not need to get a Wharton MBA and/or lose several billion dollars in bad trades to come by this knowledge.

  107. Final Doom says:

    shore (72)-

    Depends on the specific selling proposition and the bank(s) involved.

    I have no blanket opinion.

  108. Fabius Maximus says:

    #105 Nom

    Start with Substantial Presence 183 days in 3 years will trigger it. At that point you ae taxed as a non resident alien on worldwide income.
    For your strategy to work, you realy need to kiss the US goodbye and work off three countries.

    Only one of many, but you might need a retainer for the others … :*)

  109. freedy says:

    Does anyone know when Joe Biden is returning from Kenya?

  110. Final Doom says:

    sastry (108)-

    No context needed. We are about to give a 9-figure amount to a country that suicide bombs and lobs missiles at its next door neighbor. Let these monkeys eat cake. I don’t care about “humanitarian” anything…all they see their children as are future martyrs, anyway.

    We have enemies, and we have friends. When we become so lily-livered and politically correct that we cannot differentiate between the two…well, that’s the day we deserve to be overrrun and turned into slaves of the caliphate.

    This is why we have to overthrow our gubmint. It is endangering our allies and, ultimately, ourselves.

  111. meter says:

    Someone just last week posted a BP buy (John strategy, I presume).

    Hope that person got out.

  112. jj says:

    Not a John strategy at all. TBTF was predicated on important American companies that the US Govt would bail out.

    British Petro is on the US Govt hate list. No soup for you. That dividend was dead weeks ago, market just figured it out today.

    meter says:
    June 9, 2010 at 2:38 pm
    Someone just last week posted a BP buy (John strategy, I presume).

    Hope that person got out.

  113. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [112] fabius,

    Yes, I am well aware of that requirement.

    http://www.irs.gov/businesses/small/international/article/0,,id=96352,00.html

    Remember, you also have Canada, which you can “visit” as a nonresident citizen.

    There are ways to plan for that, espcially with offshore wealth that is not in a grantor trust or in a PFIC. Also, I believe I said “largely” tax free. I never envisioned being able to escape all taxation. Without the ability to “time” accessions to wealth to coincide with nonresident periods, including the partial year of a dual status resident, my strategy doesn’t work. And it is not applicable to ECI or FDAP, naturally.

    Going forward, I expect that substantial presence will be a moving target. How much remains to be seen.

  114. Fabius Maximus says:

    We have enemies, and we have friends.

    What about Frenemis?

    Those pesky French with their Swarthy minorities. Go on pick a fight with them. Leigonaires vs Marine/Ranger could be quite a match up.

  115. Confused in NJ says:

    So rather than promoting another broad stimulus package, the White House is pointing to a series of familiar-sounding, low-cost measures to create jobs: stimulating export-oriented manufacturing, subsidizing energy-efficiency improvements by homeowners, preventing layoffs of teachers and police officers and pressing for a new (and unpaid for) highway bill that could, like the Census, create a short-term burst in hiring.

    “O’s” unemploment priorities haven’t changed (preventing layoffs of teachers and police officers). Be interesting to see what the Country looks like when all are laid off except Politicians, Military, Police & Teachers. We need a new Political Party which represents everyone but them, otherwise “Taxation without Representation is Tyranny”. If “O” only cares about a select few, he isn’t representing the rest of us. I’d be happy if he told Ben to restore my Savings Interest Rate. He has definately affected me adversely.

  116. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [112] fabius,

    Retainer? Whatever happened to professional courtesy? ;-)

  117. NJCoast says:

    Rhyming realtor-I guess we have to execute all short people now too. At the very least double their health insurance premiums.

    http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5i9TFoerHNwC7odZFCYiRzjBMFb9AD9G7OISG2

  118. sas3 says:

    Doom, your anger should be directed at the uber-rich supporters of AQ — the Saudis and their friends. And, you cannot use “anti semitism” and “let those monkeys eat cake” without contradicting yourself. In fact, the Palestinians are genetically and culturally closer to Israeli Jews than the WASPs are — with all of them being semites.

  119. Pat says:

    Coast, I saw that, too.

    didn’t feel a single blip in my shortie little pulse – thanks to njrereport posters who have turned my outer skin into a thick impenetrable, steel shell.

  120. jamil says:

    Nom,

    “Quarterly Publication of Individuals, Who Have Chosen To Expatriate, as Required by Section 6039G”

    This seems to be only for US citizens who renounce (GC holders who renounce are not included) The true list of people escaping the IRS is much longer. Productive people leaving, parasites arriving/staying.. What a great country (to paraphrase Bill Ayers).

  121. chicagofinance says:

    Question to anyone who may know:

    Client worked for a company and was laid off. Subsequently rehired as a part-time worker. They told her that even though she is part-time and not eligible to contribute to the 401k, they cannot let her withdraw her balance as she is still on their payroll.

    Does this sound right to you?

  122. Fabius Maximus says:

    #117 Nom

    That visit as a non resident citizen only applies if your are residing (or domiciled) in a country with a dual taxation agreement. For the most part, spend 183 days in any country in a year and you are on the hook as a resident. A business Canada will tie you in somehow. You will also have to domicile somewere.

    Your worst Wesley Snipes moment would be US getting you under 183 in three, Austrailia getting you on 183 in 1, Canada getting you for the business and they all discover the account in the Caymens.

    Should you change your handle to “Nom Dom”

  123. Mr Wantanapolous says:

    NJC [121],

    P*rn addicted regulators would love to execute all the evil shorts.

    Disclaimer-Does not include GS shorting the housing market.

  124. Pat says:

    Does she feel comfortable enough to request a copy of the plan doc – not just SPD?

  125. sas3 says:

    Jamil…

    GC holders have to maintain the residency, or it is lost. You need to get permission beforehand to stay out of the country for over a year. If you stay outside for over two years, your GC is most likely gone. So, the term “renouncing” is a stretch.

  126. Final Doom says:

    Die, market, die!!!!!!

  127. Fabius Maximus says:

    #125 Chi

    Not an expert but I think there is a period of time (3 months??) in which a rehire is considered a continuation of employment. If they do a rehire I think you have to pay back something like 90% of severence and you maintain the old date of hire, pension rights and any vestings.

    If that is not the case, keep at HR and the plan managers until they roll it over.

    All disclaimers.

  128. Fabius Maximus says:

    GC holders are subject to the exit tax.

    “If you’re a green card holder, you can opt out of the exit tax. To do so, you must become resident for tax purposes in a foreign country that has a tax treaty with the United States. You must also inform the IRS of your intention not to waive the benefits of the tax treaty applicable to that country.”

  129. jamil says:

    sastry: “, the term “renouncing” is a stretch.”

    No it’s not. You can officially renounce (voluntarily relinquishing) GC. In fact, many people do that (e.g. at embassy). There are few scenarios in which that is useful (even if you intend to return to US one day). Let’s just say I have personal experience with this topic.

  130. yo'me says:

    GC holders can only stay outside the US less than 6 months.Being,having the intention of living here does not justify being away more than half of the year.The GC have 10 years expiration,you need to become a US citizen after 5 years,before it expires.So if you want to renounce your GC,simply just live outside the US for more than 6 months.

  131. sas3 says:

    “you need to become a US citizen after 5 years,before it expires.”

    You can keep renewing GC forever.

    S

  132. yo'me says:

    Being a GC holder just give you a permanent resident in the US up to 10 years until you become a citizen.So you are still a citizen of the country you came from.You pay 2 taxes.US and the country you came from.Usually they require you to pay your taxes when you renew your passport from the country you came from and plus the taxes you pay in the US.

  133. Juice Box says:

    I was wondering where Van der Sloot got his walking around money.

    http://www.cnn.com/2010/CRIME/06/09/us.van.der.sloot.alabama/?hpt=T1

  134. jamil says:

    yo’me:

    You have absolute no clue what you are talking about.

  135. yo'me says:

    You can keep renewing GC forever

    That is the old way.After the amnesty in the 1980’s,GC holders were required to apply for citizenship after 5 years of stay and before the expiration of the card

  136. Final Doom says:

    juice (138)-

    Don’t be a playa hater.

  137. Dink says:

    New Forest Ave. listing in Glen Ridge. Ask at $725K. I’m taking the over.

    http://www.realtor.com/realestateandhomes-detail/Glen-Ridge-Boro-Twp_NJ_07028_1119465730

  138. yo'me says:

    You have absolute no clue what you are talking about.

    who else will know,but the one that went through with it.

  139. Final Doom says:

    relo (141)-

    If I want to look at rhinos in dresses, I’ll go to the circus.

  140. sas3 says:

    yome, I know many people that are on GCs for more than 10 years — and they got their GCs in early ’90s.

  141. yo'me says:

    I have relatives living here for 20 years with the old green cards and were required to become US citizen after the amnesty.The reason we don’t want to apply for US citizenship is we loose our properties and inheritance from our motherland.With dual citizenship we do not have to worry about that now.My kids that were born in the US are US citizen but can apply for dual citizenship because i was still an immigrant when they were born.

  142. Final Doom says:

    After the massive thermonuclear exchanges are over, citizenship will not matter.

    Only concern will be how to prepare dogs for roasting over open flames.

  143. Final Doom says:

    BP might declare BK?

    Who would’ve thought it? I’m shocked, just shocked…

  144. jamil says:

    yo’me:

    You have absolutely no clue what you are talking about. There are so many errors in your comments that I don’t even know where to begin. Anyway, you obviously don’t know anything about GC process.

  145. yo'me says:

    Jamil: I will know coz I am an Immigrant but if you still want it your way,let it be.

  146. sas says:

    “BP might declare BK?”

    knew that before the spill.

    check the trades before 4/20

    SAS

  147. Mr Wantanapolous says:

    “Only concern will be how to prepare dogs for roasting over open flames.”

    Doom,

    LMAO.

  148. relo says:

    145: Clot,

    See now, take your own advice in 142.

  149. jamil says:

    well, I’m bored

    yo’me:

    “The GC have 10 years expiration,you need to become a US citizen after 5 years,before it expires.So if you want to renounce your GC,simply just live outside the US for more than 6 months.”

    Nobody is required to became a US citizen. You can be GC holder forever. GC won’t expire (the physical card may expire but you can always get a new card). You can officially renounce GC anytime (and it makes sense in some cases). You can stay out of country longer than 6 months in some cases (e.g. with waiver). You won’t lose automatically GC status if staying outside 6 months.

    “Being a GC holder just give you a permanent resident in the US up to 10 years until you become a citizen.So you are still a citizen of the country you came from.You pay 2 taxes”

    Again, hogwash. You won’t pay 2 taxes. I think only US and North Korea have worldwide taxation. If you live here (and you are not from NK) you only pay US taxes. Even living outside as a GC holder, you won’t pay 2 taxes (can get credit/deduction for most foreign taxes).

  150. sas3 says:

    Yome, minor nitpick — there is no requirement to apply for citizenship (my friends have recently passed the 10 year mark, and I am a bit early in the process).

    Jamil, yome seems to know more than enough about GC process, so you should redirect your rants somewhere else.

  151. Simply Ravishing HEHEHE says:

    Classic:

    Larry Kudlow, December 7, 2007:

    BUSH BOOM CONTINUES

    There is no recession. Despite all the doom and gloom from the economic pessimistas, the resilient U.S economy continues moving ahead—quarter after quarter, year after year—defying dire forecasts and delivering positive growth. In fact, we are about to enter the seventh consecutive year of the Bush boom.

    Larry Kudlow, June 8, 2010:

    I don’t yet see a double-dip recession.

    You have been warned.

    http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2010/06/fair-warning/

  152. sas3 says:

    Jamil, of course, the rant part does not apply to #155, since you actually addressed specifics.

  153. yo'me says:

    Again, hogwash. You won’t pay 2 taxes. I think only US and North Korea have worldwide taxation. If you live here (and you are not from NK) you only pay US taxes. Even living outside as a GC holder, you won’t pay 2 taxes (can get credit/deduction for most foreign taxes).

    You pay your US taxes through payroll that we agree.If you are a green card holder,you still have a passport from the country you came from which have an expiration.To travel outside the US,you need a valid passport,the GC is not enough proof to travel.So,if your passport is expired you need to renew it.When you renew it at the embassy of your country you will be assess of income and be required to pay taxes.To get away with this,simply don’t travel outside the US and keep a expired passport.

    You can officially renounce GC anytime

    What are you renouncing? You are just a permanent resident and still a foreigner with a foreign passport.

    GC won’t expire (the physical card may expire but you can always get a new card).

    But you have to explain with the Immigration,what is holding you up.

    You can stay out of country longer than 6 months in some cases (e.g. with waiver

    Try coming in with more than 6 months without a waiver from the US embassy.That is why there is lines for US citizen and non-citizen when you come in the US.And the lines in the non-US citizen is always long.

  154. jamil says:

    yo’me:

    “When you renew it at the embassy of your country you will be assess of income and be required to pay taxes”

    I don’t know if some country is doing that (North Korea, Myanmar?), but most countries are certainly not.

    “What are you renouncing? ”

    GC status. There are some scenarios where it makes sense to immediately relinquish it (even some scenarios you are living in the US).

    “But you have to explain with the Immigration,what is holding you up.”

    Uh – Immigration is not interested if you won’t take Citizenship exam. You can be Perm Resident forever, no questions asked.

    “Try coming in with more than 6 months without a waiver from the US embassy.”

    Actually you should get the waiver before you leave the US, but up to 12 months outside may still be ok (though not recommended).

  155. yo'me says:

    Jamil:What else do you want me to explain to you.I am going with the rules of immigration and you are trying to bend it.

  156. yo'me says:

    I don’t know if some country is doing that (North Korea, Myanmar?), but most countries are certainly not

    Work outside the US see if you don’t have to pay income tax as long as you are US citizen

  157. willwork4beer says:

    The New Jersey Real Estate and ICE Policies and Procedures Report.

  158. jamil says:

    yo’me:

    To make things simpler for you:
    Nobody is required to become US citizen. You can be GC holder forever (you don’t have to “bend the rules” for that).

    If you live in the US, you only pay US taxes (with the possible exception of taxes from NK, Myanmar and maybe few other countries). Working outside of US as US resident/citizen is different (you still owe little or no money to IRS, because of tax treaties and foreign tax credits/deductions), but your original rant was not about this scenario.

  159. Final Doom says:

    HE (158)-

    All I need to make an instant classic for YouTube:

    1. Kudlow
    2. Eight-ball
    3. Two 11th Av tranny hookers
    4. Weekend room reservation at Motel 6
    5. 2 gallons Johnnie Walker

  160. yo'me says:

    Working outside of US as US resident/citizen is different (you still owe little or no money to IRS, because of tax treaties and foreign tax credits/deductions), but your original rant was not about this scenario.

    If you are a foreigner working in the US with a GC,you are still a citizen of your country.And as a good citizen you will pay your taxes.

    Nobody is required to become US citizen. You can be GC holder forever (you don’t have to “bend the rules” for that

    How many times can you explain on your interview with immigration,you want to extend your expiring GC? Ones it is expired you are required to go out of the country and do to the process again.

  161. chicagofinance says:

    Pat says:
    June 9, 2010 at 3:40 pm
    Does she feel comfortable enough to request a copy of the plan doc – not just SPD?

    Pat: Yeah. I’m wondering whether it is just linear thinkers who do not want to disrupt their process, or actual policy. It seems as if it could open up a can of worms (i.e. if you do not let them get the money, then are the de facto an employee?).

  162. yo'me says:

    You know how tough the interviews are?Most of the time you need an immigration lawyer to help you.

  163. jamil says:

    yo’me:
    “If you are a foreigner working in the US with a GC,you are still a citizen of your country.And as a good citizen you will pay your taxes”

    Only if you are a citizen of North Korea or maybe Myanmar. Other countries do not tax on worldwide basis so you don’t have to pay 2x taxes.

    “How many times can you explain on your interview with immigration,you want to extend your expiring GC. Ones it is expired you are required to go out of the country and do to the process again”

    Hogwash.
    Your GC won’t expire ever. You won’t ever have to go out of country to “renew” it. You don’t have to renew your GC status ever.
    The physical card may be expire but it has nothing to do with GC status. They just mail you new one. When you enter the US, the Gestapo officer at border may ask any questions (typically just to find if you were out of country >6 or 12 months), but who cares. They can’t take your GC away, and your GC status vs Citizenship is none of their business.

  164. Mr Wantanapolous says:

    relo [156],

    Unsustainable? Yet, he and his partners in crime have added over $3T in debt in just the past 2 years. The only game in town is aggressive devaluation, leading the world’s monetary system into the abyss. The architect’s have blown the doors off the hinges. Total calamity is rapidly approaching.

    I guess he’s right; unsustainable.

  165. yo'me says:

    Fire:yo’me,
    Please cut you BS

    Purpose of Form :
    Use this form to replace a “Green Card.” Please note: You should not submit this form if you are a conditional resident and your status is expiring. You must use Form I-751 if you became a conditional resident through marriage to a U.S. citizen or permanent resident. You must use Form I-829 if you became a conditional resident based on a financial investment in a U.S. business

    Please note: You should not submit this form if you are a conditional resident and your status is expiring.

    This form is for a lost green card not for extension.What are you trying to show me?

  166. yo'me says:

    I am done with this discussion.It was a educational.

  167. jamil says:

    yo’me:

    The point is that (contrary what you touted):
    1) nobody is required to became US citizen.
    2) GC status won’t expire ever (see *)
    3) You don’t have to pay 2 x taxes (in the scenario you defined)

    *:
    Normal GC status won’t expire ever.
    Conditional GC is for investors (who promised to invest) or marriage-based GC (if still married after two years, then they become Perm Resident and allowed to apply citizenship right away, but certainly not required).

    The physical card (GC) may expire but it is not really needed to re-enter the country or keep the status (in fact, I have entered the country without it once as I forgot it home, Gestapo just pulled the info from computer and handed me permit to enter).

  168. Pat says:

    cf, you’d need to request the doc to light a fire under their asses, unless you can get through to the administrator, instead. End run.

    Have her bypass the company and call the 800# instead. Tell them she’s a term, ineligible rehire, and request a withdrawal form. Submit it and wait.

    Like ML used to be a pushover. She’d have the check yesterday if she called and requested a copy of the doc. They’d rather cut a check than copy the doc, any day.

  169. Fabius Maximus says:

    3) You don’t have to pay 2 x taxes (in the scenario you defined)

    To clarify, You do not pay 2X taxes for those countries that have a dual taxation agreement with the US. A dual taxation agreement means that tax paid on on income is only taxed once (ie you get a creit for tax paid in the other country. You must file in both countries if required. The US has a further requirement in that the amount of tax paid will be the tax owed to the US or higher. That is, for the most part, paying the US is break even or cheaper.

    If the country does not have a taxation agreement, (Saudi Arabia, 1ran, Nigeria etc), You pay the US and are then subject to the other countries tax structure. If you area US citizen working abroad, you pay Uncle Sam and then pay again localy.

    All Disclaimers.

  170. Confused in NJ says:

    Before the Globlist came to power in the US, you had to renounce other countries to be a US citizen.

  171. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [175-176] I’m sorry I brought it up in the first place.

    [126] fabuis

    “That visit as a non resident citizen only applies if your are residing (or domiciled) in a country with a dual taxation agreement.”

    Not sure I am following you. I already said you don’t avoid taxation with ECI and FDAP, and there is a US-CDN tax convention to cover that. If I was working here, no benefit to being a noncitizen and no issue about substantial presence. Canada doesn’t tax income of nonresident citizens earned outside of Canada. So no issue if there is a canadian biz–that gets taxed in Canada regardless, and won’t exist after citizenship anyway.

    You were correct on the third country–sorry if that wasn’t clear, but there has to be a third in my scenario because you first apply to get CDN perm residence status, and you keep that for five years (perm residents don’t pay tax for up to 5 years). But that doesn’t get you out of US, so you need another jurisdiction. Let’s say DR. So you apply to canada and get PR; apply to DR and get citizenship; and you renounce US in either Canada or DR. Now the fun starts, and I am too tired to get into the logistics of how you avoid sub presence while earning money, and deferring recognition while deemed a perm resident here.

    ATEOTD, this is largely academic. Anyone with enough money to do this easily, has enough money to not care.

    [178] fabius,

    Essentially correct. I’m too tired to nitpick.

  172. Stu says:

    I hate my new job!!!

  173. jamil says:

    Fabius 178

    “You do not pay 2X taxes for those countries that have a dual taxation agreement with the US..
    If you area US citizen working abroad, you pay Uncle Sam and then pay again localy.”

    Not exactly right..
    Even for countries that do not have tax treaty with the US (say, Singapore), the first ~82k earned abroad is not taxed by the US (only taxed in Singapore and only income over ~82k US taxes apply). Tax treaty removes double taxation over ~82k too.

    (of course, gets complicated, e.g taking FTC or deduction etc).

  174. Stu says:

    Jamil,

    It might be easier if you just call Yo’me in person.

  175. chicagofinance says:

    So you would bet that they are full of shite? But why obstruct? Why do they care? Or is it that payroll direct feeds the system and she is listed as active? In other words, better to say no that do any extra work….

    Pat says:
    June 9, 2010 at 8:01 pm
    cf, you’d need to request the doc to light a fire under their asses, unless you can get through to the administrator, instead. End run.

    Have her bypass the company and call the 800# instead. Tell them she’s a term, ineligible rehire, and request a withdrawal form. Submit it and wait.

    Like ML used to be a pushover. She’d have the check yesterday if she called and requested a copy of the doc. They’d rather cut a check than copy the doc, any day.

  176. chicagofinance says:

    that = than

  177. Pat says:

    Not obstruction. Empire building and/or distaste for contacting investment mgr. for ostensibly administrative advice.

    If available, always advise your clients to use transactions systems, not company. If the transactions-based system blocks the request because an active code overrides the most recent term date, have her call during the day and ask for the plan’s client services manager. They’ll be more apt to contact their in-house attorney for an O.K. and just do the transaction without involving the company contact.

  178. yo'me says:

    Jamil:

    The holder must maintain permanent resident status, and can be removed from the United States if certain conditions of this status are not met.

    Permanent residents who reside in the US must pay taxes on their worldwide income, like U.S. citizens. Certain conditions that may put a permanent resident in deportation proceedings do not apply to U.S. citizens.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Permanent_residence_(United_States)

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