Welcome (Back) Home!

From the Record:

Riding out the recession at Mom’s

Angelo Onello III, a 28-year-old civil engineer and musician, would like to move out of his parents’ place in Ramsey. But he’s not willing to pay as much as $1,200 a month for a North Jersey apartment.

“What’s left for savings?” he asked recently. “Living at home is fine.”

Like Onello, many young adults decide it makes economic sense to live with their parents. In North Jersey, the high cost of housing is one reason, but the recession that started in late 2007 has also forced many families to double up.

In the first half of this decade, about 1.25 million net new households were formed each year, according to Census Bureau figures. But from 2005 to 2009, that number fell to fewer than 750,000 new households a year, according to two recent census reports.

“From 2007 to 2008, the number of Americans living in a multi-generational family household grew by 2.6 million,” the Pew Research Center wrote in a recent report that cited “high unemployment and rising foreclosures.”

“It is clear the most recent recession impacted individuals’ decisions to move out on their own,” said Gary Painter, a professor at the University of Southern California.

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185 Responses to Welcome (Back) Home!

  1. grim says:

    From the Star Ledger:

    N.J. to add up to 25 more ‘Superfund’ sites in next 5 years as competition for federal funds increases

    Already home to the largest number of Superfund toxic-waste sites in the nation, New Jersey expects to add 15 to 25 more properties to the National Priorities List in the next five years, state and federal authorities said.

    And while adding to the list means the state is eligible for more federal cleanup money, it also means New Jersey has yet to see the end of its terrible legacy of contamination, one that in some instances dates back a century.

    “We are still discovering cases we believe are going to involve multimillion-dollar remediation costs,” said Ed Putnam, head of the Publicly Funded Remediation Program for the state Department of Environmental Protection. “If you need substantial remediation funding, in order to get it from the Superfund, you need to be on the National Priority List.”

  2. Shore Guy says:

    “National Priorities List ”

    We’re number one. We’re number one.

  3. Shore Guy says:

    “National Priorities List ”

    We’re number one. We’re number one.

  4. House Hunter says:

    previous thread, to clot and nj coast thanks for the Gloria nilson info, this clip from the article says it all, emphasis on the first name: While Gloria Nilson, REALTORS, Real Living remains locally owned — by SCS Realty Investment Group LLC, headed by Garden State real estate leader Richard “Dick” Schlott/ While the Schlott name is not part of the new branding, his influence runs deep throughout the company

  5. D says:

    I didn’t think the parents in this article looked very thrilled about junior still living at home!

  6. sas says:

    “Angelo Onello III, a 28-year-old civil engineer and musician”

    looks like the ipod and latest ipad was more important.

    where is this guy going to bring home a women for the night?


  7. sas says:

    “From the Record”

    The Record has it wrong. Kids living at home in the NJ area is nothing new, and kids have been doing this for along time now, as compared to the rest of the country.


  8. EWellie says:


    You are right. I have a friend from Texas and she can’t believe how many people in NJ move back home after college. I think a lot of it has to do with demographics here as well as the cost of living.

  9. Pat the Mediaeval Princess says:

    Demographics, my ass.

    They’re chickenshit cheap asses who don’t want to deal with roommates when Mom can make them apfelkuchen and Daddy can take the car for oil changes.

    Why do the work when you can go on dating dot com as you approach Age 30 – and “buy” a spouse after Mommy & Daddy pay the rent for all those years.

    They don’t even realize it’s a half mil takeaway.

    Then they have babies and raise them as if they earned the right.

  10. Pat the Mediaeval Princess says:

    Worst of all – they come up with the silliest names for the kids.

    Please just hide your sad history and name your kids Ethel and Eunice and Elsie and Elwood and such. E names are innocent. When you do the whole Graydon thing we all know what your lifestyle has been.

  11. Mr Wantanapolous says:

    I lived at home after college. Why rent an apartment? I was traveling all over the world on business and in the summer, weekends, slept on the beach or on the floor at friend’s summer place in Belmar.

    I was pissed that my parents charged me $300 per month. However, when I got married a couple of years later, my parents gave me a check for over 7K, my past rent payments. Used that for a down payment, a condoshack, with a 3 year adjustable, 12.5% mortgage.

    It was a great learning experience, taught me how to save.

  12. Yikes says:

    in my day (about a decade ago) the guys who lived at home w/ their parents after graduation ended up driving really nice cars.

    they had jobs and were able to stockpile some cash because they lived at home.

    i wasn’t as lucky, had to move 4 hrs away for a job, but i was right outside NYC, so it worked out fine.

    a few years later i was probably 15k in CC debt but damn if it wasn’t worth it. i was operating out of a negative monthly budget for about a year in NYC, maybe 18 months. instead of paying it off, got luckily flipping a house out of state and that debt was a distant memory.

    wouldn’t trade in my 20s in NYC for anything.

  13. Pat the Mediaeval Princess says:

    I don’t know, Bob.

    Getting off easy as an adult is a really bad situation to overcome.

    Maybe you’re special, and it helped you with the whole pitch thing.

  14. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    Well, the event I expected did not happen on Friday. The fact of my imminent departure is known, the date wasn’t.

    So now I will be hanging out in my office, doing a few on-line CLEs until they call for me.

  15. Pat the Mediaeval Princess says:

    Nom, Nom, Nom.

    If I wasn’t absolutely positive you’d spoken about this blog at work (public disclosure), I’d give you some advice about heading down to Belmar tomorrow.

    Maybe some other stuff that truly works. But I can’t do that here.

  16. d2b says:

    I can remember my parents being disappointed when I decided to move out at 26. I am one of six and most of us did a stint at home after college.

    The money saved was used to pay for grad school, open businesses, and save for home down payments. No shame in living at home if you using it as a means to a better end.

    My parents may have given us a push out the door if they felt that we were just wasting cash.

  17. Pat the Mediaeval Princess says:

    d2b, how would your life be different had you not availed yourself of parental support after, let’s say, 21?

  18. Shore Guy says:


    When they hired you, was it at a given monthly salary, weekly, or yearly? I wonder if you might not have some leverage with the implied contract route.

  19. Shore Guy says:

    This pretty much says everything about the disconnect from fiscal reality tht exists in the Obama Administration:

    President Obama urges G-20 nations to spend; they pledge to halve deficits

    By Howard Schneider and Scott Wilson
    Washington Post Staff Writer
    Monday, June 28, 2010

    TORONTO — President Obama warned Sunday that the world economic recovery remains “fragile” and urged continued spending to support growth, an expansionist call at the end of a summit marked by an agreement among developed nations to halve their annual deficits within three years.



  20. Shore Guy says:

    If it were monthly, and I worked even an hour in July, I would assert a right to the entire month’s salary. If yearly, I would assert a right to be paid for the remaining porion of the year, calculated from start date.

  21. sas says:

    me, I moved out of my house when I was age 13, became a stevedore, working back & forth barges from the Hudson to Brazil.

    kids today at 13 grow up to be the same kids at 30, living in his mom’s basement so, he can drive the BMW, and still locks the closet to look at the lingerie in the Sears catalog, cause he can’t bring home a women.


  22. Pat the Mediaeval Princess says:

    Gotta tell this story. Can’t believe how much my daughter (age 8) freaked out yesterday, and what it meant to me.

    On my dresser, I keep this small leather coin holder. It’s a half-moon, thick and tan – handmade by an American Indian of the same tribe as my mother’s grandmother.

    In the purse is a wishing well full of shiny coins dated 1983 and earlier. I was born in 1963. The coins are from Greece and Germany, Norway and Austria, East Germany and Yugoslavia. Some are from Sweden and Finland, some from France and England. Lots of countries.

    She’d been afraid to ask me to open it. Grace never saw a coin with a hole in the middle of it, or a copper-colored coin with silver around it. She was shrieking. I was trying to blow-dry her hair and had to stop and tell her what they were. “The 500 lire is from a guy a train. He was in a sports uniform and with his team, heading north from Rome. They were celebrating. I told him I collected money from people I meet so that I would remember them.” The guy’s name was Baresi. “All this money is from people I met.”

    I had no money, no chances and no way to fall lower. So I went up. I was 20 years old.

  23. Shore Guy says:

    I mentioned fracking the other day as a reason why we have stoped looking in North East PA for land. I dont want land anyplace with NG deposits. Water that bursts into flame is of no interest to me.


    A Colossal Fracking Mess
    The dirty truth behind the new natural gas. Related: A V.F. video look at a town transformed by fracking.

    Early on a spring morning in the town of Damascus, in northeastern Pennsylvania, the fog on the Delaware River rises to form a mist that hangs above the tree-covered hills on either side. A buzzard swoops in from the northern hills to join a flock ensconced in an evergreen on the river’s southern bank.

    Stretching some 400 miles, the Delaware is one of the cleanest free-flowing rivers in the United States, home to some of the best fly-fishing in the country. More than 15 million people, including residents of New York City and Philadelphia, get their water from its pristine watershed. To regard its unspoiled beauty on a spring morning, you might be led to believe that the river is safely off limits from the destructive effects of industrialization. Unfortunately, you’d be mistaken. The Delaware is now the most endangered river in the country, according to the conservation group American Rivers.

    That’s because large swaths of land—private and public—in the watershed have been leased to energy companies eager to drill for natural gas here using a controversial, poorly understood technique called hydraulic fracturing. “Fracking,” as it’s colloquially known, involves injecting millions of gallons of water, sand, and chemicals, many of them toxic, into the earth at high pressures to break up rock formations and release natural gas trapped inside. Sixty miles west of Damascus, the town of Dimock, population 1,400, makes all too clear the dangers posed by hydraulic fracturing. You don’t need to drive around Dimock long to notice how the rolling hills and farmland of this Appalachian town are scarred by barren, square-shaped clearings, jagged, newly constructed roads with 18-wheelers driving up and down them, and colorful freight containers labeled “residual waste.” Although there is a moratorium on drilling new wells for the time being, you can still see the occasional active drill site, manned by figures in hazmat suits and surrounded by klieg lights, trailers, and pits of toxic wastewater, the derricks towering over barns, horses, and cows in their shadows.

    The real shock that Dimock has undergone, however, is in the aquifer that residents rely on for their fresh water. Dimock is now known as the place where, over the past two years, people’s water started turning brown and making them sick, one woman’s water well spontaneously combusted, and horses and pets mysteriously began to lose their hair.


  24. Confused in NJ says:

    MY son paid rent for one year after graduating Seton Hall (BS Finance) & opted for rent forgiveness then by doing his Masters (MS Finance) at night at St Peters. He also got all the money back at Marriage. Only then did he realize it was our way of directing him to Financial Independence. He also finally appreciated being debt free, as his bride came with lots of college student loans. Something he never dealt with. My daughter also lived at home after St Elizabeths until marriage. Double standard, she didn’t pay rent. We were satisfied with her 2 BA’s in Elementary Education and Psychology. Her husband had the MS.

  25. sas says:

    “He also got all the money back at Marriage”

    I’ve been done married 5 times.

    don’t ever get married. just live in sin.


  26. Confused in NJ says:

    26.sas says:
    June 27, 2010 at 11:37 pm
    “He also got all the money back at Marriage”

    I’ve been done married 5 times.

    don’t ever get married. just live in sin.


    I’ll be married 44 years next month. The secret is marry the right person. My wife is like Susan Lucci, timeless, and looks the same as she did at 18, still 5′ tall, size 2. Guess that’s why both kids have stable marriages, its what the grew up to want and expect, so they chose accordingly.

  27. Shore Guy says:

    This Monty Pythonish I’m-not-dead-yet moment brought to you by the BBC and our brothers in Mexico:

    Mexican singer Sergio Vega has been shot dead only hours after he had denied reports he had been murdered.

    The 40-year-old singer, known as El Shaka, told a website he had increased security measures after a number of Mexican musicians were killed.

    Musicians performing narcocorridos, songs celebrating the lives of drug barons, often become the targets of rival drug gangs.

    Gunmen opened fire on Mr Vega on his way to a concert in Sinaloa state.

  28. Shore Guy says:


    Good genes and good role models help in many different areas.

  29. Shore Guy says:

    Get in on the ground floor for this NEW oceanfront property:


  30. Al says:

    Staying with parents is great way to save for young kids – I know a couple, before they got together both got their bachelors, got jobs and lived with their respective parents for 5 years.
    During this 5 years they met, dated and got married.

    After they got married they bought a house in NJ with 170K downpayment.

    How did they do it – both had ~70K salary – low for NJ, but without renting they have being able to save about 20K/year each.

    If parents are wiling o do this for kids it is a great help!!!

    Nothing wrong with it.

  31. Pat the Mediaeval Princess says:

    Al, I’d rather die in one of Clot’s upcoming round-ups than have to tell my daughter that story about my life.

  32. Pat the Mediaeval Princess says:

    To each his own. Only your name is on your tombstone.

  33. d2b says:

    Pat (17)-
    It’s hard to say how my life would have been different. I worked my ass off at 21. I had my own business, went to school full-time, and worked a full time job. I probably would have never been able to get the business off of the ground or pay for college. I was able to pay for school as I went along and graduated with little debt.

    I have another brother with a business, a brother who is a successful govt lawyer, one sister with an MBA and a sister who is a pharmacist. We were encouraged to stay at home so that college was affordable. Our parents could not afford to pay for college. What they could give us was a stable roof and a few meals.

    I have no regrets. I hope to be able to return the favor for my family. Six of us turned out very well. Maybe without a bit of help in our early 20s, we would have made return trips in our late 20s or early 30s. But once each of us moved out, we never had to go back. And our parents were able to enjoy their retirement without serving as secondary financiers, co-signing on homes, or providing daycare. It worked for us.

    Like I said before, if we were wasting money on clothes/trips/cars they may have had a different opinion of our situation.

  34. grim says:

    From Krugman:

    The Third Depression

    Recessions are common; depressions are rare. As far as I can tell, there were only two eras in economic history that were widely described as “depressions” at the time: the years of deflation and instability that followed the Panic of 1873 and the years of mass unemployment that followed the financial crisis of 1929-31.

    We are now, I fear, in the early stages of a third depression. It will probably look more like the Long Depression than the much more severe Great Depression. But the cost — to the world economy and, above all, to the millions of lives blighted by the absence of jobs — will nonetheless be immense.

  35. grim says:

    From Bloomberg:

    Manhattan’s $10 Million Apartment Market Offers No Bargain Buys

    It took Stephane Melloul three days to learn he’d need about $50 million for the New York home of his dreams: four bedrooms, a terrace and Central Park views.

    Melloul, president of London-based credit rating company Notalia, started this week expecting to spend as little as $20 million. He raised his target after seeing just five Manhattan properties that met his criteria.

    “I thought when I came here that the prices would be more compelling and more attractive, and actually they weren’t,” Melloul said, speaking in French in a telephone interview. Real estate broker Charlie Attias, a senior vice president of New York-based Corcoran Group, interpreted.

    Manhattan’s super-luxury apartments, those sold for $10 million or more, outperformed the rest of the city’s housing market in the first quarter. The median price of the most expensive cooperatives and condominiums climbed 6.4 percent from a year earlier, compared with an 11 percent drop across all price ranges, according to an analysis of data provided to Bloomberg News by New York-based appraiser Miller Samuel Inc.

    “There is always going to be demand for those units in the sense that they’re hard to come by,” said Gregory Heym, chief economist for Terra Holdings LLC, owner of property brokers Brown Harris Stevens and Halstead Property LLC. “Park and Fifth avenue buildings, the rarity of getting an availability in them, make them very desirable.”

  36. grim says:

    From the NY Times:

    Large Apartments Are the Rage in New York City

    EVEN in today’s uncertain real estate market, family-size apartments are having something of a baby boom in New York City.

    Sales of three- and four-bedroom apartments swelled last year, even as sales of smaller places declined, and the trend has since persisted. The increased sales are another sign that New York City has become a more appealing place for families. In addition, prices for these apartments have decreased more significantly than those for smaller units, and so are now more affordable for more people.

    The buyers of these apartments, which range in price from $2.5 million to $7 million, are not typically people with five or six children; they tend to have two to four. But they want a bedroom for each child as well as a guest room, a family room or a home office. Maintenance or common charges for these larger apartments range from about $3,000 a month, for a three-bedroom, to $6,500 a month for a seven-bedroom.

    They, too, are finding that since median prices for larger apartments have dropped by as much as 34 percent, they need not squeeze into a one- or two-bedroom. The median for three-bedroom apartments was $3.79 million at the market’s height in 2008, and dropped to $2.515 million in April and May, according to market data provided by Prudential Douglas Elliman.

    “The new Bergen County or Westchester County is now the West Village and the Upper West or Upper East Sides,” said Darren Sukenik, a managing director at Prudential Douglas Elliman who sold about a dozen large apartments at Superior Ink, a luxury development in the West Village. “Big families are back, and nobody wants to move to suburbia,” he said. “It’s the antithesis of what our parents did.”

  37. sas says:

    ok, either this webpage is working funny this morning or the east germens are back.


  38. Yikes says:

    living at home post-college isnt for everyone…just as college isnt for everyone.

    of my 10 closest friends, id say 2 lived at home post-college for a few years…no major (even minor) difference between how they turned out vs the others.

  39. Shore Guy says:

    I suspect this is all about making it harder for Israel to launch an air attack on Iran, as the route across southern Turkey was the most likely path for Israel to use:

    Turkey closes airspace to Israeli planes
    UPDATED: 08:06 AM EDT 06.28.10

    (CNN) – Turkey has closed its airspace to Israeli planes, Turkey’s prime minister said Monday.

    Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan said the airspace was closed in the wake of the Israeli military’s May raid on a Turkish ship that was part of a Gaza aid flotilla, but did not provide further detail

  40. Shore Guy says:

    I suspect that there is a difference between living at home right after college and leaving home and then having to come back some years later.

  41. Frank says:

    Where’s the recession?? Buy a home now before the crazy money send you REO shopping with Clot.

    Wall Street Hiring Jumps Most Since 2008 as Guarantees Return


  42. Pat the Mediaeval Princess says:

    Shore 43, neither one of those security/fallback options was ever available to me, so when I asked d2b how his life would be different had he struck out on his own at adulthood, I was really curious to see how he viewed his decision-making.

  43. Barbara says:

    I attended The School Of Hard Knocks at 18. Escaped, never returned. Why would anyone want that for their kids is beyond me. You can be helpful to your adult children without enabling some sort of Jersey Shore life style. There is a middle ground.

  44. Pat the Mediaeval Princess says:

    I also worked full-time, starting even before I was 16, and carefully spent the money on college and travel that would give me the cultural experiences I’d missed growing up extremely poor.

    Without that investment in myself, I’d never have been able to hold my own socially in the professional environment I entered at 22 after my MBA.

    So I was able to jump from point A to point K or L financially.

  45. DiamondGirl says:

    My parents always taught me that we must work for what we attain in life. Like some of you, I went to college, worked since I was 15, bought my first real estate when I was 24. Today, I live in one of those Bergen County towns with high taxes, but a beautiful lawn! But, you know, It’s not all about our “things” and how much we are worth. Sometimes you need to step outside this box that society has drawn regarding success. If you are not happy inside, then what are the fancy homes and high level careers worth?

  46. Libtard In the City says:

    10-year @ 3.07? How bad are Europe’s debts?

  47. meter says:

    @48 –

    I’m buying a house when the 10 year is negative and housing rates have fallen 75%.

    Figure this time next year.

  48. Nomad says:

    My work life started at age 5 on saturday mornings. 4 hrs labor and I got $1 and a Hershey Bar.

    Something to be said for hard work and attainment of some comforts but more important to know that the stuff won’t make you happy and in some cases, can actually make you unhappy – especially so if one cannot afford the material posessions and the fixed overhad then one becomes a prisoner to their things.

    I too lived in one of the haughty train towns – was interesting to see folks trying to be something they are not and driving themselves and their kids insane in the process.

    Net worth and cash flow are not the same thing – low or no debt makes a terriffic pillow.

    Always thought a bit of deprivation helps keep ones head on straight – no doubt I am right.

  49. Shore Guy says:

    “Always thought a bit of deprivation helps keep ones head on straight – no doubt I am right.”

    Indeed you are.

  50. NJGator says:

    Stu and I just got surprise first class elite upgrades for tomorrow night’s flight to Vegas. We’re only Silver elites. I guess the airlines are doing as well as the home builders.

  51. jurisprude says:

    [14] Nom,

    When I left my BIGLAW position, I took so many free CLEs that I was good for NY for two year and then carried some over.

  52. nycchef says:

    My wife’s old college roomate and her brother both still live at home. They are 42 and 43 respectively. No real cash in the bank or investments. She drives a new car though and spends over 300 dollars a month on private pilates classes. No one in the immediate family seems to have a problem with it. Maybe it’s a cultural thing, they are from India.

  53. Mr Hyde says:

    Repost from yesterday…

    I got an e-mail over the weekend advertising an open house in mendham. Its scheduled for a Wednesday afternoon and they will have an ice cream truck and buffet lunch at the open house….

    Wouldn’t the “owner” be better off walking away from the house at this point instead of sinking the money into gimmicky open houses trolling for that 1 sucker in the bunch?

    Is it just me or does that scream DESPERATION.

  54. Mr Hyde says:

    Driving through the hoity-toity portion of mendham yesterday, i was surprised at the number of high end homes up for sales. On a few streets it seemed like half the street was for sale.

  55. Libtard and the City says:

    3.03 on the 10-year.

  56. BeachBum says:

    And I’m just trying to buy a house in Belmar – no sellers in those towns seem to realize that if half the streets are for sale in the fancy towns, they ain’t gonna be forking over a ton of money to be buying a wrap around porch as a weekend place…

  57. Libtard and the City says:

    I was not raised poor, but I was far from spoiled. My parents raised seven and that meant teaching independence and self-reliance trumped everything else. We were pretty much on our own financially at 13. I had a great lawnmowing business going from age 13 through high school where I eventually grew the business large enough where I hired other teenagers to mow the lawns for me and I would take about $10 per house. Also worked at Burger King, KayB Toys and eventually K-mart (lot’s of K’s). Spent my summers either in sleepaway camp or ad a counselor. Only one of the seven children returned home to save money, but mom charged rent. She also saved it up and then returned it to him on his way out about 6 months later (when you live with mom, you live by her strict rules).

    I never lived with less than 3 roommates until the time I was dating Gator. I remember paying $250 per month to live in a basement (where the oil heat furnace was located). I also once shared a bedroom for a couple months with the brother of a girlfriend for $50/month. I faked my monthly rail passes and got around on a Trek. It ain’t easy living in North Jersey at $18,000 per year (which was my starting salary out of college in the last recession). And I still managed to do it without ringing up any CC debt or tapping the bank of mom. As you guys know, I bought my first car 15 years ago and I’m still driving it today.

  58. jamil says:

    interesting day. Supreme Court reconfirms that 2nd Amendment is indeed, a constitutional right that can’t be blocked by local gov.

    End of an Era: Former Klu Klux Klan Grand Dragon, US Senator Robert Byrd, 3rd in row to succeed the president, has died. He is the one who opposed civil rights legislation, wrote the famous words never to walk with negro and was the ultimate porkulus senator. 9th term senator. My god.

    Great day for the country.

    Interesting to see what the journolist and State Media talking points about him /sarc

  59. Final Doom says:

    Pat (23)-

    If that was Franco Baresi, you met one of the best Italian soccer players of all time.

  60. galgon says:

    This a re-post from last night but hopefully someone on here can answer this question: Can you sell a house in New Jersey that still has the old two prong electrical sockets?

    I have an older family member who can no longer afford the property taxes and needs to sell her place. She has lived there for 50 years and never had the electrical upgraded. I have been told that you can no longer sell houses in NJ if they still have the old style electrical plugs but I cannot find a answer online. Obviously this will affect the sale price of the house but we would rather not have to rewire the whole house just to sell it.


  61. Libtard and the City says:


    The answer is you don’t need to upgrade them, as my multi in Montclair had more ungrounded sockets than an episode of the Honeymooners. Of course there could have been a recent law change since 2004, but I doubt it. Fortunately, we did not have any of those 2-two button light switches to go along with the two prong sockets.

  62. grim says:

    Two prong not a problem, unless they are wired knob and tube.

    Knob and tube homes are difficult to sell because most homeowners policies won’t insure.

  63. Pat the Mediaeval Princess says:

    Clot, I’m pretty sure it was him. At the time, I’d never even watched soccer, though.

    I rode night trains a lot that year, and met the most incredible selection of people. Opera singers were the best for free tickets to shows.

    The players never gave match tickets, but I did score a coupla concert tickets from a guy who played for Hamburg.

  64. Jill says:


    Our house was full of 2-prong outlets when we bought it. I think you need to look at your electrical panel; if it is underpowered, or worse, fried (as ours turned out to be after we bought), you’ll have other problems.

    If the service is adequate, and it is a grounded system (get an electrician to confirm), and the boxes are metal, you can use a green pigtail wire to ground a new 3-prong outlet to the back of the box. That’s what we did (our system is grounded), along with upgrading the panel, and we have had no problems since. Changing outlets is trivial (provided you turn off the circuit to the outlet!!).

  65. chicagofinance says:

    Is there any way to check whether an individual has purchased a registered firearm?

  66. Mr Hyde says:


    NJ does not have a public list of registered gun owners. The state police certainly do maintain a database, but not for public consumption.

    Such lists are highly contentious and it was tried at least once before in NJ but shot down in the end (no pun intended)

    Perhaps one of the legal beagles on the blog can comment, but under certain circumstances you may be able file a request with the state police. Call them up and ask them.

  67. chicagofinance says:

    I need to approach someone in Connecticut who may be a few french fries short of a happy meal. I just do not want to take the risk that in their clouded state that they decide to terminate me. They are not diagnosed as cracked, but there is no question that they are clinically paranoid.

  68. grim says:

    Handgun? Call their local PD, they would have issued the purchase permit. Doubt they would disclose without subpoena though.

  69. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [70] chifi

    Then you would want to know what the law is in Connecticut, wouldn’t you?

    Can’t help there (not a CT admittee), but I agree with Grim, and personally, I don’t think you could get that information, even with a fight.

    Best to do everything by phone.

  70. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [52] gator

    Watched “The Hangover” this weekend. Thought of Stu. Have fun in Vegas and good luck.

  71. Simply Ravishing HEHEHE says:


    Stevie Cohen?

  72. #74 – Stevie Cohen

    Hmm, might want to be careful he doesn’t run you down with the zamboni.

  73. Mr Hyde says:


    Level III or III-A should be sufficient for most handgun calibers and level 3 is easily concealable under clothing.

  74. Knifecatcher - Painhrtz says:

    Chi tell them you want to go through an FFL for the transfer which you have to do any way. If they flinch and get sketchy the gun isn’t legal

  75. NJGator says:

    Nom 73 – Thanks. And I will not ask you which character reminded you of Stu :)

  76. Confused in NJ says:

    CHICAGO – A new study led by a federal drug safety expert ties the controversial diabetes drug Avandia to a higher risk of heart problems, strokes and deaths in older adults, and says it is more dangerous than a rival drug, Actos.

    The study, a huge review of Medicare records, comes two weeks ahead of a Food and Drug Administration hearing on Avandia’s safety. The lead author, Dr. David Graham, is an FDA scientist who wants the pill banned.

    As many as 100,000 heart attacks, strokes, deaths and cases of heart failure may be due to Avandia since it came on the market in 1999, Graham said in an interview with The Associated Press.

    Harms from Avandia are great enough to “put you in a hospital or in a cemetery,” he said.

    Editors at the Journal of the American Medical Association rushed to release the study online on Monday, so the information would be available before the July 13-14 hearing, a spokeswoman said.

    Avandia is a once-blockbuster drug for Type 2 diabetes, the most common form of the disease and the kind often tied to obesity. Avandia and Actos are pills that help the body make better use of insulin, a key digestive hormone.

  77. NJGator says:

    Graydon and Ellery’s mom go to school to learn “Spanish for Your Nanny”.


  78. NJGator says:

    700k for a 1658SF home on Grove Street (County Road) across the street from a cemetery?

    How Much Would You Spend on a Reno?

    Cindy Pedersen fell in love with a three-bedroom colonial home on Grove St, the minute she saw it.

    “I liked the flow of the house, and while I saw the ‘before,’ I also saw its ‘after’ potential,” she told Baristanet.

    She forked out $390,000 for the home, which has two bathrooms, a big garden and parking for up to four cars, and, after a few years, took on a massive 1 1/2-year renovation project.

    All this for a cool, additional $275,000. See the details and more photos here.

    It was a labor of love,” Pedersen said. “This house is in a great location; schools are close by and it’s a minute from King’s” supermarket and the bustling intersection of Bellevue Ave and Valley Road, with easy access to Rt. 46.

    The house, at 697 Grove St, came onto the market in mid-May in the late $690,000s, and has now been reduced to $659,000.

    Nearby, at 693 Grove is a 3-bedroom, 1 bathroom colonial, with two-car parking, for $434,000, which can be viewed here. It hasn’t had anywhere near as thorough a renovation as 697 Grove – the living and dining areas were opened up – but it’s currently under contract after having been on the market since March.

    Sothebys’ agent Carol Tangorra said a buyer’s perception of value of a home, with or without a reno, is all a matter of dollars and cents.

    “It is always price,” Tangorra said. “The owner actually did a terrific job in renovating this home (697 Grove). Yes, Grove Street is busy. Yes, it is across the street from the cemetery. But, at the right price it will sell.”

    Incidentally, Tangorra, felt 697 was priced a little on the high side.

    A Montclair couple with two young kids who have been house hunting for the past couple of months, concurred.

    “It’s selling for way above the assessed valuation at a point when houses are selling below their assessed valuation. We understand that the owner spent a lot of money on renovations, but then maybe it should be reassessed,” they said, declining to be named.


  79. NJGator says:

    Re 82, there’s not even a Viking range!

  80. relo says:

    82: Gates we were in your lovely town on Friday night. Not having been there in 15 years or so, I had forgotten how vibrant the downtown was. I can’t see paying the taxes, but I can see the attraction to the area (disclaimer: small sample size).

  81. NJGator says:

    relo 84 – Now you see our dilemna. We view moving to Glen Ridge as a nice compromise for it. Proximity to all that we love. We will still pay high taxes in GR, but we will get much better services and more stability for it than by doubling down in Montclair.

  82. NJ ExPat says:

    When I graduated college in 1983 I thought for about a second:

    A. Porsche 944 and live at home


    B. Honda CRX and my very first apartment in Northern NJ.

    I chose B.

  83. ricky_nu says:

    Re #82 – I seet his all the time, and find it funny – it can’t be a coincidence that the house is priced at purchase price + supposed improvements. I have always argued that that you should pay < improvement price because you didnt get to pick the suff out yourself. Funny thing is, they were probably trying to cover some of the brokerage costs with their original asking price.

    go figure……

  84. Libtard and the City says:

    “And I will not ask you which character reminded you of Stu :)”

    Mike Tyson?

  85. Barbara says:

    82.”Carmella Sopranoed” the interior. Classic.
    Gator, stu – you should be friends with that poster!

  86. Libtard and the City says:

    Ricky (97):

    Yup…Even if they didn’t break down the cost of the renovations, you would have been able to determine them from the current list price minus their original purchase price. The real question that absolutely floors me is why do so many people BUY homes and then sell them less than 5 years later. One would have been so much better off financially had they rented exactly what they wanted. Was everyone trying to make money of off their homes when they purchased them? Is the BS promoted by the NAR that powerful?

  87. Libtard and the City says:

    ”Carmella Sopranoed”

    How about that bar in the basement? Come on now!

    When I look for a home, I want the bare minimum amount of renovations done because:

    1. I don’t want to pay top dollar for them.

    2. Not every homeowner is a professional interior decorator.

    Give me a well-maintained, un-updated home at a fair price, and I’m in like Flynn. What the hell does that mean?

  88. Mr Hyde says:


    Is the BS promoted by the NAR that powerful?

    I think for many it may be. There are few routes available for the average joe to make big bucks in a short time frame. If you arent a bond wizard or a day trader whiz then flipping a home for a fat profit is probably the only way you are going to see “easy money”. Now consider that we all watched Mr and Mrs joe down the street flip a house for a fat profit and you have a nice little mania going.

    In a world of offshoring jobs, decreasing wages and the ever present drive to “keep up with the jones” the draw is strong for many.

  89. Barbara says:


    Stu, same. I have yet to find one of these in 6 years. I started out thinking a nice fixer would be so easy to find. Har! indeed…

  90. BeachBum says:

    Some nice charts re prices remaining high – I’m still waiting…


  91. Shore Guy says:


    No reason to jump into shark-infested waters. Paying too much for dinner, a glass of wine, a pair of shoes or a purse is one thing, but a house? No way. There are pleanty of decent shore rentals available and no need to overpay to bail out someone else’s finances.

  92. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [80] confused

    Great. We hold GSK stock.

    The hits just keep on coming.

  93. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [83] gator

    “Re 82, there’s not even a Viking range!”

    That’s a good thing!

  94. This site is a walk-through for all the information you wanted about this and didn’t know who to ask. Look here, and you’ll definitely find it.

  95. NJGator says:

    Nom 97 – Good thing for the discerning buyer. Not so good for the seller who needs one of those idiots to plop down $700k for a tiny house on a busy county road overlooking a cemetery. Her only hope is that idiot pool and a $5k Viking range will easily net her an extra $25k in sale price from those folks.

  96. Libtard and the City says:

    Barb (93):

    Not too hard to find un-updated and unmaintained unfortunately.

  97. House Hunter says:

    question to anyone who knows out there. A foreclosure is coming to the area we want to buy this week. They seem to come up a short time later with a realtor office in Mt. Holly or south Jersey. Called the law office on the sheriff list, they said they will take “proposals” after it goes back to the bank through their office, and that the bank doesn’t necessarily hand it over to a real estate office…is this true? if we put a bid in would it be better off from a lawyer on our end?

  98. Barbara says:

    but those are overpriced given the worked needed.

  99. Barbara says:

    It means that the bank will drag their feet on any offer short of the full outstanding debt. Take a shot, lawyer or no lawyer. Back it up with the financing and/or cash, see what happens but don’t expect anything.

  100. sas3 says:

    Hyde #92

    Anxiety can drive many people to gambling, and flipping houses is just one form. There’s plenty of anxiety around, right from “commies stealing all the money” to “Palin’s drones hunting down all those are not ‘real-americans'”.


  101. Libtard and the City says:

    Yup…Usually one too cheap to upgrade and maintain their home is also to cheap to sell it at a fair price. They tend to be the FSBO.

  102. A.West says:

    Shore (21) : has the culture really moved such that it’s newsworthy and a big deal for a woman to decide not to have sex until she’s in a serious relationship?

    Gator (82) : amazing that sellers still price houses on a cost basis. This is like one of those dumb people who buy a beaten up old Mazda for $5,000, then install $10,000 of car stereo gear in it. At least they can bring some of it with them to their next car, because nobody’s going to buy it for $15k.

  103. Considerably, the publishis in reality the sweetest on this deserving subject. I fit in with your conclusions and will thirstily look forward to your next updates. Just saying thankx will not just be satisfactory, for the fantastic clarity in your journalism. I will right away grab your rss feed to stay privy of any updates.

  104. Libtard and the City says:

    ชุดแซก <— JJ?

  105. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [104] sas3

    You do realize that Palin doesn’t have drones circling your house, right?

  106. sas3 says:

    “I will right away grab your rss”…

    Misread it.

  107. sas3 says:

    Nom, loose lips can cause a lot of harm. Thankfully, she can be (and has been) bought.

  108. Fiddy Cents on the Dollar says:

    Hey Beachie —

    Nice to see you posting again….

    Did you check out 314 15th Ave ? Cute little 2-bedroom for $399K just came on the market on 6/24. 3 blocks to the beach.

    Or how bout 504 10th Ave ? 4 bedrooms, completely renovated….$799K

  109. chicagofinance says:


  110. jamil says:

    109 comrade: You shouldn’t have explained that..better to keep sastry believing that all those innocent looking “passenger jets” and “police helicopters” flying over NJ are, in fact, Palin’s drones monitoring sastry, day and night.

    Today we learned that Obama has dozens of US citizens in his extrajudicial killings list, but we have to wait President Palin until it becomes a problem for the Left (“Unconstitutional”, “biggest threat to this country since 1860s” – my Shore Guy rant generator already provided ready-made post for SG).

  111. chicagofinance says:

    For jj: Posted an article on Onions and Shrek from the WSJ….into mod

  112. chicagofinance says:

    chicagofinance says:
    Your comment is awaiting moderation.
    June 28, 2010 at 4:02 pm

    jj: SHREK AND ONIONS…..for you

    JUNE 28, 2010

    The Onion’s Best Friend Is an Ogre
    By Hawking Vidalias to Kids, ‘Shrek’ Has Helped Goose Sales

  113. Knifecatcher - Painhrtz says:

    Nom i worked for GSK a long time ago, all I can say is sorry. they are one of the reasons why I stick to aspirin and scotch for most ailments.

  114. Final Doom says:

    relo (84)-

    So go for a visit, then leave.

  115. Final Doom says:

    plume (96)-

    Sounds like it’s time for an out-of-the-money put strategy.

  116. Final Doom says:

    hunter (101)-

    True, all of that. But, unless the bank is especially aggressive in dumping REO, you’ll pass out when you hear their asking price.

  117. NJGator says:

    And you thought you were calling us Montklair folks commies just for fun…

    FBI Arrests 10 Alleged Russian Spies, Montclair Couple Charged As Secret Agents

    Ten alleged secret agents spying for Russia were arrested on Sunday by the FBI and two of the defendants are from Montclair. The defendants known as “Richard Murphy” and “Cynthia Murphy” were arrested at their Marquette Road residence in Montclair, and are expected to appear in federal court in Manhattan today.

    The Murphys, along with six other individuals, were arrested for allegedly carrying out long-term, “deep-cover” assignments in the U.S. on behalf of the Russian Federation, the Justice Department announced today. Two additional defendants were also arrested Sunday for allegedly participating in the same Russian intelligence program within the U.S.

    In total, 11 defendants, including the 10 arrested, are charged in two separate criminal complaints with conspiring to act as unlawful agents of the Russian Federation within the United States. Nine of the defendants are also charged with conspiracy to commit money laundering.


  118. Final Doom says:

    jamil (114)-

    I only hope that you’re way up on Bojangles’ death list.

  119. sas says:

    damn..its hot out.


  120. Mr Hyde says:

    Knife 117

    How about them blood pressure meds? Your better off with a glass of wine a night then the probably side effects from their long term use. Its funny how many studies with negative results werent published.

  121. relo says:

    118: We did, and only because of the show. Once every 15 years seems about right.

  122. Mr Hyde says:

    your = you’re

  123. Final Doom says:

    All these statin, diabetes and blood pressure drugs will kill you. Fcuking poison, all of it.

    Pharma = license to rob people, then kill them

  124. Final Doom says:

    My great aunt was put into care when she was in her late ’80s. First thing those crooks did was put her on all kinds of meds. She was eventually bedridden and diagnosed as persistent vegetative.

    Four years later, my brother became her guardian and tooke her off everything (yeah, they were giving her all this crap even as she lay there like a zombie). Within weeks, she was up, walking around and conversant. She lived another three years, very happily.

  125. Confused in NJ says:

    CHICAGO – Should healthy people with low cholesterol take a pill to lower their cholesterol even more in hopes of preventing heart problems? The question is dividing heart doctors and confusing patients.

    An analysis published Monday questions research that led federal regulators to allow the statin drug Crestor wider use for prevention. The Food and Drug Administration broadened Crestor’s market to millions more people in February, partly because of a study reported in 2008 by Crestor’s maker.

    Consequently, more doctors are putting healthy people on statin drugs, sometimes inappropriately, heart doctors say. And they say too little attention is paid to potential risks, such as developing diabetes.

    The earlier Crestor study funded by AstraZeneca PLC was controversial from the start. Its findings: Crestor cut the risk of certain heart problems in half for the middle-aged and older men and women in the study, who had normal levels of LDL, or “bad” cholesterol (below 130), and high levels of a measure of inflammation called C-reactive protein, CRP. It not only suggested a new use for Crestor, but a new blood test for CRP.

    Critics suggested the dramatic results might be exaggerated because the experiment was stopped after two years instead of the planned five. They questioned why the authors didn’t report the rates of death from heart attack and stroke, which when teased out of the data turned out to be unaffected by Crestor.

    The new analysis, appearing in Monday’s Archives of Internal Medicine, raises those questions again. A second paper in the same journal finds no justification from the earlier results for using a test for CRP to make treatment decisions. And a third paper, an analysis of 11 published studies including the 2008 study, finds no evidence that statins help high-risk people without heart disease live longer.

    “Why take a medicine that hasn’t been shown to make you feel better or live longer? Yet that’s what millions of Americans are doing,” said Archives of Internal Medicine editor Dr. Rita Redberg, a cardiologist at University of California San Francisco.

    Cholesterol-lowering drugs, including statins, are among top sellers nationally and globally. More than 238 million prescriptions for cholesterol-lowering drugs were dispensed by retail pharmacies in 2009, with more than $17 billion in sales, according to the health industry data firm IMS Health.

    Statins, which work to clear LDL or “bad” cholesterol from the bloodstream, are widely prescribed for people with existing heart disease. Most experts agree the drugs reduce the risk of death in those patients. What’s not clear is how much they help people who may be at risk because they smoke or have high blood pressure, but have no history of heart disease.

    If the AstraZeneca findings were incorporated into treatment guidelines, roughly 6 million more people could be put on statins at a cost of $9 billion a year.

    Dr. Michel de Lorgeril of Grenoble University in France, co-author of the new analysis, said the review showed the earlier results weren’t clinically and scientifically consistent and that the study should have continued the full five years.

    Dr. Paul Ridker of Harvard-affiliated Brigham and Women’s Hospital in Boston, who led the 2008 study, said the study was stopped because the drug was clearly benefiting people in the study. He said the FDA’s independent analysis and its approval for Crestor’s new use backed up the decision to stop the research early.

    Speaking of the critical new analysis, Ridker said: “In the face of overwhelming evidence, the lengths some people will go to avoid dealing with new ideas that unsettle them is quite striking.”

    An outside expert, Dr. Lisa Schwartz of the Dartmouth Institute for Health Policy and Clinical Practice, said the bottom line for patients is to pay attention to what’s still unknown about long-term use of Crestor in healthy people.

    “The people in this study only took the drug for under two years. We just don’t know what the balance of benefits and harms are for people who are going to take this for a lifetime,” Schwartz said

  126. Mr Hyde says:

    better living through chemistry right? Your better off with a bong and a brew

  127. Outofstater says:

    Anyone know if NJ gun laws will change because of the Supremes’ decision today?

  128. BeachBum says:

    Fiddy – I’ll check them out but I need at least 3 bedrooms and want to be under 4 blocks to the beach..

    Shore, Looks like I’m renting again this summer, but it’s a nice bungalow and we had fun there last year. Porch and back yard a little small for my taste but an open floor plan that makes all the difference when you’ve got a multi generational gathering for two weeks. Gotta say I love it!.

  129. stan says:

    what’s really galling about the “murphy’s” is that they were helping to prop up real estate values in Montclair;

    More Info 08/18/08 12156 2309 481000 110.35 MURPHY, RICHARD & CYNTHIA

    Damn communists

  130. grim says:

    But did the commies reno?

    I think they took up spying to help pay the tax bill.

  131. Fiddy Cents on the Dollar says:

    This rain stinks of Oil and it makes my eyes burn. WTF have these bastards done down there ?!?!?

  132. grim says:

    This rain stinks of Oil and it makes my eyes burn. WTF have these bastards done down there ?!?!?

    Sorry, but the stink comes from Trenton.

  133. NJGator says:

    Stan 135 – They bought below assessment. Think of them as lowballers. Maybe we are all commies at heart here.

  134. Shore Guy says:


    Feel free to get my e-mail from Grim and maybe we can bump into each other somewhere between Spring Lake and Asbury.

  135. Shore Guy says:


    The arrest of the Montclair spies is potentially good news for home buyers, I assume they will be pretty motivated sellers at this point.

  136. Fiddy Cents on the Dollar says:

    Beach —

    Make sure you check out 504 10th Avenue – 4 bedrooms, completely renovated….$799K

    And include me “in” on any Coastal GTG.

  137. Shore Guy says:

    Russians spying for Russia is less of a concern for me than American’s spying for Russia. Yea, I still want the Russians arrested and punished in some way; the American’s spying for Russia, or any other foreigin government, I want shot.

  138. Shore Guy says:


    You too feel free to get my contact info from Grim.

  139. Shore Guy says:

    ” has the culture really moved such that it’s newsworthy and a big deal for a woman to decide not to have sex until she’s in a serious relationship”


    It simply AMAZES me how far the culture has shifted. There are activities that guys of my generation worked like dogs to get performed on us that so many in the sub 30 demographic don’t view as any more a big deal than a french kiss when I was in high school and college.

    I have a story about being out with friends a few months ago and getting seriously hit on by a lovely lass of 21 who just did not want to take no for an answer. In response to my saying “I am married and my wife would not take kindly to my going off to play with her the lass replied, “I understand. How about just a b!0w job, she can’t object to that.”

    After dabbing up the drink I spit onto the table, I told her that I knew my wife and thought that she would likely consider that to be s-ex, to which she replied something like, “Oh, it really isn’t. It is no big deal really. Hand j0bs and b!0w jobs don’t count as s-ex any more. Everyone does it when they don’t want to have s-ex with someone.”

    John was born at the wrong time.

  140. Shore Guy says:

    This sort of thing has happened to me a fair number of times in recent years. I suspect that most of the not-overweight and reasonably-attractive middle-aged guys here have had similar experiences.

  141. grim says:

    Yea, I still want the Russians arrested and punished in some way;

    Can we hang them during the 4th of July pre-show?

  142. Yikes says:

    nycchef says:
    June 28, 2010 at 10:21 am

    My wife’s old college roomate and her brother both still live at home. They are 42 and 43 respectively. No real cash in the bank or investments. She drives a new car though and spends over 300 dollars a month on private pilates classes. No one in the immediate family seems to have a problem with it. Maybe it’s a cultural thing, they are from India.

    outside of America, my experiences are that living at home after college (or into early 30s) is not uncommon.

  143. Yikes says:

    grim says:
    June 28, 2010 at 12:35 pm

    Handgun? Call their local PD, they would have issued the purchase permit. Doubt they would disclose without subpoena though.

    Grim, does this hold true for all states? What if you purchase a gun from a legitimate outlet, but then never register it anywhere. does the purchaser need to register it?

  144. grim says:

    No idea about other states.

    There is no law requiring registration of guns in NJ.

    There are laws, however, around purchase and transfer of ownership.

  145. Confused in NJ says:

    Chemicals in oil from Gulf spill cause ‘gas station’ odor.
    Thursday May 27th 2010, 10:00 am

    Ever since millions of gallons of oil started spewing into the Gulf of Mexico more than a month ago from the collapsed Deepwater Horizon rig, some people on the Gulf Coast have reported a mysterious, lingering smell in the air.

  146. Shore Guy says:

    “Can we hang them during the 4th of July pre-show?”

    As long as we are willing to allow our NOC spies to suffer the same fate overseas, why not. I would be inclined against in the interest of being to get our own NOCs out but I have no philosophical objection to hanging tbem, shooting them, whatever.

    For the same reasons stated above, I would not support televising the executions.

  147. Shore Guy says:

    I have not talked to Leon Panetta recently but I suspect he would feel the same way on both counts.

  148. d2b says:

    Maybe it would be best to arrest spies and release them into general population for a few weeks before they “commit suicide”.

    We need to start making the punishment in our society serve as a deterrent to crime.

  149. NJGator says:

    No Surprise: Montclair’s Alleged Russian Spies Kept Low Profile
    Monday, June 28, 2010

    “When he looked at you, he didn’t look you in the eye. And I thought it was strange.”

    That was how Jeannette Lauture remembered her neighbor “Richard Murphy,” the man who along with wife “Cynthia Murphy,” was arrested for being Russian secret agents. “I remember him talking to me, but averting his eyes, and I had this feeling, even then, there was something not right.” It was strange, says Murphy, because on this friendly block, Murphy’s reticence to interact, his reluctance to engage in anything more than just a brief hello, made him the exception. “I remember that the kids were friendly,” says Lauture, “but you never saw them outside playing. He seemed very protective of them.”

    Lauture was one of a handful of neighbors outside tonight on Marquette Road, a pretty winding street with well-kept houses and plenty of kids, many who were out riding bikes. Some didn’t know the Murphys (who moved from an apartment in Hoboken to Montclair in 2008, purchasing the home at 31 Marquette for $481,000), but a few recalled seeing Richard Murphy walking his two daughters to catch the Hillside school bus.

    There were more media than residents on Marquette Road tonight as reporters from Eyewitness News, WPIX, Bloomberg and others, tried to get the story behind the couple who have become known in court documents as the New Jersey Conspirators.


  150. Final Doom says:

    I think we need sas’ input on this one:

    “On a number of other occasions, the SVR specifically indicated that information collected and conveyed by the New Jersey Conspirators was especially valuable. Thus, for example, during the summer and fall of 2009, CYNTHIA MURPHY, the defendant, using contacts she had met in New York, conveyed a number of reports to Center about prospects for the global gold market. In October of 2009, the SVR responded: “Info: on gold – v. usefull [sic], it was sent directly (after due adaptation) to Min of Finance, Ministry of Economic Development.

    Well, at least we now know where Russia is getting its gold hoarding ideas from.

    What is most interesting, is to find out just how the Wall Street financier is who is about to get pinched for interacting with Ms. Murphy:

    In a message dated “Feb 3 09” the New Jersey Conspirators reported that, through her work, CYNTHIA MURPHY, the defendant, “had several work-related personal meetings with [a prominent New York-based financier, name omitted] and was assigned his account”; the message accurately described the financier as “prominent in politics,” “an active fundraiser for [a major political party, name omitted].” A response from Moscow Center indicated that the financier “is checked in C’s database-he is clean. Of course he is very interesting ‘target’. Try to build up a little by little relations with him moving beyond just [work] framework. Maybe he can provide [Murphy] with remarks re US foreign policy, “roumors” [sic] about White house internal ‘kicthen’, invite her to venues (to [major political party HQ in NYC, for instance)…. etc. In short, consider carefully all options in regard to [financier].”

    It appears Mr. “Murphy” is quite the out-of-the-box thinker when it comes to luring prominent New Yorkers “beyond just ‘work’ framework.” We are confident the prominent NY-financier’s wife will be ecstatic to find out her husband was having a potential affair with a Russian spy. And a Zero Hedge hat to the first to uncover just who this mysterious person is.

    All in all, this will provide countless hours of entertainment for the US counterespionage population. In the meantime, we are curious how the President will present this interesting break from the monotone of the summer doldrums to the US population, and just what diplomatic escalation he will demand vis-a-vis a suddenly very strategically (and commoditally) important Russia.

    Also, if readers have access to Ms. Murphy’s picture, we would be quite interested in finding out just what this individual, who has apparently shaped Russian gold policy to no little extent, looks like.”


  151. Yikes says:

    did this get talked about?


    Investors will this week be bracing themselves for signs that the US recovery is slowing, as a slew of economic data on the world’s largest economy is expected to paint a downbeat picture.

  152. Mr Hyde says:

    Confused, Fiddy

    I have heard the same reports from a number of people who live in the area.

    My 2 cents as someone who has a degree in the related field making a WAG…. The lighter fractions of oil such generally consist of ketones and aromatic hydrocarbons. These compounds tend to have high vapor pressures whcih is what causes the gasoline/solvent like smell (over simplified). I would be very curious to see someone run an HPLC or Gas chromatograph analysis on rain samples in the area as many of the lighter fractions of oil that evaporate easily sch as many of the ketone compounds and aromatic hydrocarbons (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aromatic_hydrocarbon) are also fairly soluble in water!!!!! aromatic hydrocarbons are often carcinogenic and generally not good for you.

    I could be completely wrong, this is simply a slightly educated musing. The tests for these compounds in air and water are very easy and could be done by any lab. You will normally find these compounds in an industrial environment but the level at which they are found is normally minuscule.

    Of course even if high levels are found in the rain and the humid air, there isnt anything you can really do about it.

    I am also curious if they humidity in the air could be carrying these compounds given then solubility of these compounds and their high vapor pressure.

    You could run all of these tests and more in the course of a few days. it wont happen. They could cause a mass exodus from the region if these tests came back with very high numbers

  153. Shore Guy says:

    “Maybe it would be best to arrest spies and release them into general population for a few weeks before they “commit suicide”

    In rhe alternative, they might be shot whilst attempting to escape.

  154. House Hunter says:

    120 Clot and Pat on the reo, that is what I figured. House has windows left open and I can see the dishwasher door is ripped off, I don’t think they even care what the state of the property is, but I suppose it won’t hurt, it is Bank of Amer.

  155. Pat the Mediaeval Princess says:

    Has anyone ever owned a “cr@ftm@ster” sofa and can you tell me if it lasted at least three years without seat cushion buckling?

  156. Pat the Mediaeval Princess says:

    Oh…my husband is a one position kind of guy…;) so I need a sofa that will hold up to his spot.

  157. Mr Hyde says:

    One more thought.

    If there are high/elevated concentrations of aromatics or other high vapor pressure oil source compounds, then you probably do not want to be pregnant and anywhere near such an environment.

    If you consider the amounts and potential impacts of high vapor pressure water soluble aromatics and ketones, then Simmons comments about needing to evacuate the region isnt so very far for reality.

    If the news stations potentially want a bomb of a story they would hire some environmental labs to start running the proper tests on air/rain and water samples just inland from the gulf.

  158. Shore Guy says:

    “the New Jersey Conspirators”

    I thought that was what th NAR called people who post here.

  159. wtf says:

    Obituaries: Pete Quaife, at 66; original bassist for the Kinks


    the Kinks were the only band from the British invasion with its original members still alive

  160. Shore Guy says:


    I can recomend Stickley as furniture that holds up well.

  161. Pat the Mediaeval Princess says:

    I don’t want anything expensive, shore. It’s for the cave – a stinky, baseball watching room. Stuff in there goes to craigslist after a few years.

  162. Fabius Maximus says:

    Hydrocarbons in the air.

    The first time I went to NOLA as I got off the plane and got hit with the heat and that refinary smell in the air.

    Its only when we got to the French Quarter that the refinery smell disappeared, to be replaced with that unique aroma.

  163. Fabius Maximus says:

    Back in 2000 I dated a Russian single mother, from Montclair. She was a Wall St Quant. At the time I just thought she was just after me, to get my W2 for her daughters application to Kimberly, now I think the real reason is clear …. :*)

  164. Yikes says:

    Ireland is a hot mess…could this happen here? Could be the morning post, Grim


    Nearly two years ago, an economic collapse forced Ireland to cut public spending and raise taxes, the type of austerity measures that financial markets are now pressing on most advanced industrial nations …

    Rather than being rewarded for its actions, though, Ireland is being penalized. Its downturn has certainly been sharper than if the government had spent more to keep people working. Lacking stimulus money, the Irish economy shrank 7.1 percent last year and remains in recession.

    Joblessness in this country of 4.5 million is above 13 percent, and the ranks of the long-term unemployed — those out of work for a year or more — have more than doubled, to 5.3 percent.

    Now, the Irish are being warned of more pain to come.

  165. Fabius Maximus says:


    I’m willing to stand up and say my England predicion for the World Cup was 100% wrong. That was an amazing implosion. I still however maintain that Spain will choke and I’ll take a beer at a GTG on Portugal.

    A Brazil Argentina final may make up for a poor tournament.

  166. sas3 says:

    2nd starling on our lawn in less than a week. First one wasn’t yet a fledgling — so I took it to Raptor Trust [wild birds sanctuary], and the second one is almost ready to fly. Would have left the second one on the lawn if not for a stray cat roaming in the woods.

    Q for experts: Should I take this one to Raptor Trust too, or leave it back on the lawn where it was trying to learn flight [brought it onto the deck to protect from the stray cat]? The bird nest is nearby, basically a vent on one side the house.


  167. BeachBum says:

    Fiddy, don’t you think 502 6th is a better deal at 100K less and North End? Also the house you mentioned as the same layout as another wreck that was showing on 6th also – around the 300-400 block, south side of the street, beautiful property. I wonder what happened to that house? They were asking a ridiculous sum for it and it was unrenovated. At least the house you mention looks like it was really well done.

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