SPCS: NY Metro Home Prices Hit New Low

Unlike the rest of the country, prices here are still falling. Remember folks, the SPCS NY Metro Area includes most of Northern NJ.

From the Wall Street Journal:

A Look at Case-Shiller, by Metro Area

The S&P/Case-Shiller Composite 20 home price index, a broad gauge of U.S. home prices, posted a 0.8% gain in April from a month earlier and rose 3.8% from 2009, as the expiration of a federal tax credit boosted prices.

Eighteen cities posted month-to-month increases in April, but price levels remain close to April 2009 lows. Miami and New York were the only two cities to post monthly drops, dropping 0.8% and 0.3%, respectively. New York posted a new relative index low. San Diego has now shown 12 consecutive months of positive returns. It is the only market that didn’t contract in the late winter months.

From the Record:

April home prices shored up by tax credit

Home prices declined 1 percent in the New York metropolitan area, which includes North Jersey, from April 2009 to April 2010, the Standard & Poor’s Case-Shiller index reported Tuesday. Prices in the region are back to the levels of April 2004, and are 21.7 percent below their peaks in June 2006.

From CNN/Money:

Home prices up 3.8% in April – but don’t celebrate

Once the tax credit fully expires, home prices are likely to take a beating, according to Pat Newport, a housing market analyst for IHS Global Insight.

“The housing glut and foreclosures will drive the national Case-Shiller index down another 6% to 8%, with prices bottoming in 2011,” he said.

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181 Responses to SPCS: NY Metro Home Prices Hit New Low

  1. Sas3 says:


  2. morpheus says:

    Yah. . i got the silver medal. Give me that hot russian female spy!

  3. morpheus says:

    thanks doom.

  4. Final Doom says:

    Problem is, Jack Kemp actually made the same argument- on the floor of the Senate- as the pea-brained goof in #4.

  5. Shore Guy says:

    There is NO WAY that RE prices dropped in NJ. Our proximity to NY keeps prices up.

    If the data shows otherwise, one has to wonder if the Russians are behind it.

  6. Yikes says:

    Simply Ravishing HEHEHE says:
    June 29, 2010 at 1:22 pm

    “and where are you going to find 20-30 people to be in your group who are heavily armed?”

    I take it you’ve never spent much time in the South

    I’ve spent some time in the south. Fine, you’ve got 20-30 guys in your group in the south. but assuming you’re talking about the deep south, good luck keeping those toothless middle school dropout hicks way from your wife/kids.

  7. Yikes says:

    Knifecatcher – Painhrtz says:
    June 29, 2010 at 1:26 pm

    Yikes I have stand off capability thanks to years of hunting. Know how to create a defensible position thanks to studying miltary tactics, know about ten guys of similar skillsets. Plus you don’t want to F with me in forested environment. I would be tapping you on the shoulder before you even knew I was there. That same roving band of marauders, are only really effective as long as their vehicle is still moving. Well placed round through the radiator into the engine will shut them down. Zip two of them before they know where it’s coming from and they are running in the opposite direction.

    i dont doubt you, but it is much easier to say this stuff than to actually live it. i dont think any of us have a clue what it would be like. not even guys who have been in the army or spent time in ‘Nam.

  8. Sas3 says:

    Doom #4. He is funny. Check out the “if you ain’t teabagging, you ain’t american” part.

  9. Yikes says:

    Melrose Place actress (the old melrose) kills someone in a DUI in Montgomery County.

    smells like jail time


  10. Sas3 says:

    Doom, Check out Poe’s Law. In short, is Colbert a liberal parodying the right, or is he a right winger pretending to be a liberal parodying the right. I think he is a right winger pretending to be a liberal that tore Dubya a new one — the only certainty is that Dubya has a new one :)

    Now, is Jamil…


  11. Bubble Disciple says:

    “Prices in the region are back to the levels of April 2004, and are 21.7 percent below their peaks in June 2006.”

    So it’s taken 4 years for prices to revert to (peak-2 years). I think we’ve got a long way to go.

  12. Confused in NJ says:

    8. Yikes; I dont doubt you, but it is much easier to say this stuff than to actually live it. i dont think any of us have a clue what it would be like. not even guys who have been in the army or spent time in ‘Nam.

    True enough. The Mrs and I are both armed, but we don’t intend to flee, too old anyway. But, when the time comes our domicile will definately thin the herd, before it falls. Mrs with a 22 Mag & me with a 44 Mag. We figure if we can get 100 apiece, we’re ready to exit anyway. Domicile goes with us, at the last. Enough people do that, the herd won’t get to Knifecatchers forrest, anyway.

  13. willwork4beer says:

    #10 Yikes

    That would be Montgomery Township, in Somerset County, NJ, not Montgomery County, PA.

    Its just north of Princeton and just west of her hometown of Hopewell, NJ.

    Less than ten miles through the woods from stately Beer Manor.

    Yikes says:

    June 29, 2010 at 8:38 pm

    Melrose Place actress (the old melrose) kills someone in a DUI in Montgomery County. smells like jail time


  14. willwork4beer says:

    #14 redux

    Make that EAST of Hopewell, not west.

  15. Final Doom says:

    Just watched The Men Who Stare at Goats.

    Oddly fitting after the weirdness that was today.

  16. Comrade Nom Deplume aux maison says:

    [157] morpheus

    I defer to Clot on things Bourbon. I have not been a bourbon afficianado since UMass when I dated a Smithie from southern KY. Back then, drank a lot of of the Bird, which was considered 2nd tier. She was a huge fan of Maker’s, which I never had until a New Year’s Eve in Lexington where I got faced like I hadn’t since freshman year.

    I used to be a bourbon man. I have since become a scotch drinker, and after a tasting at my firm of some very nice scotches, I have a newfound respect for MacAllan. Cragganmore is also nice, and if Balvenie was as good as it used to be, it would be ambrosia.

  17. Comrade Nom Deplume aux maison says:

    [16] doom

    Good to see you back. You were weirding me out.

  18. Comrade Nom Deplume aux maison says:

    I like it


    When TSHTF, these are my kind of people. Why? Anyone that humorous is trustworthy.

  19. Final Doom says:

    plume (18)-

    Had a pile today on Spain to advance at -220, while simultaneously jockeying a STD & BBVA short. I really don’t like laying odds of over -150, but I figured Portugal couldn’t score.

    Not drinking for a few days, so I got a little amped up. David Villa helped settle my nerves.

  20. Comrade Nom Deplume aux maison says:

    That was a nice goal. I had to look to see how he got the rebound.

  21. Barbara says:

    “Yikes I have stand off capability thanks to years of hunting.”

    were you hunting rabid grizzly bears with frickin machine guns attached to their frickin heads?

    seriously, I don’t think deer hunting in jersey prepares anyone for an out manned and well armed assault in the end times. Just S.

  22. still_looking says:

    Finally made my DRV payday. Wow.


  23. Fabius Maximus says:

    “were you hunting rabid grizzly bears with frickin machine guns attached to t
    their frickin heads? ”

    Babs, that is the laugh I needed after today. I have had two hospitals take my coinsurance for a joyride. I think if I get lucky I’ll finish the day at a subcompact car level.

    Clot I missed the game, but from what I hear, especially in the first half my beer got a run for its money. There is no way I’ll go to a GTG with you guys and live ammo, I’ll stick a beer voucher in the post I think its safer.

  24. Final Doom says:

    sl (23)-

    This is just the start.

  25. New in NJ says:

    I’m thinking that the guy in the video is a comedian, not a gen-u-wine redneck. Or he might actually be both, exaggerating for effect.

    I’ve known plenty of rednecks, as I grew up in the country in north Alabama. While that guy’s reasoning follows that of the real thing, it’s just a little over the top. He just hits one too many of the stereotypes in his little diatribe.

    It’s still good entertainment.

  26. House Whine says:

    If she only gets 5 years for the death of the passenger in Montgomery it’s not enough.
    So she smacks into someone and races away from that accident. Then proceeds on her path of destruction and smacks into another vehicle, killing the passenger as the poor woman is almost home in her driveway. What kind of person does that?

  27. Knifecatcher - Painhrtz says:

    Barb I can hit a 4 inch circle at 400 yards, I think I’ll be OK, plus boar hunting in south carolina on the ground with a bow. I’ll take on a band of armed marauding morons over a pi$$ed off 400 pound boar any day.

    Thanks for the laugh though

  28. Knifecatcher - Painhrtz says:

    #10 Yikes she used to be hot, only 38 the years have not been kind

  29. All "h-Train" Hype says:

    #10 Yikes she used to be hot, only 38 the years have not been kind

    That’s what years of drinking like a fraternity brother will get you. 9 pm on a Sunday? She is a real booze hound.

  30. Mr Hyde says:


    I have to speak up for Knife on the following

    boar hunting in south carolina on the ground with a bow

    if that is accurate and h doesnt have someone backing him up with a shotgun or high caliber rifle, then he probably has both the cajones and proficiency he claims.

    Boars are notoriously nasty, especially when wounded. Most people hunt them with multiple people carrying large caliber weapons. You want the boar dropped the first time, because it will come for you if you dont. Hunting boar on the ground with a bow is something you only do if you are very good and enjoy a real challenge where the animal has a real shot at you if you mess up.

    Of course we are all internet tough guys here and could single handedly take out a russian platoon ala Red Dawn (mmmm deer blood).

    Oh, and i once hit the side of a bus at 50 meters with a shot gun. I also hunt squirrel using nothing but a BB gun and wearing a speedo

  31. Mr Hyde says:

    I love market days like yesterday. Buy Buy Buy!

  32. Knifecatcher - Painhrtz says:

    Hyde – I smell new sport, bb gun speedo squirrel olymic event

    As far as boar hunting goes, you don’t need cajones, just a good tree to get up and fast. I must say though 20 yards from an angry pig is a real rush, very difficult to focus and make a good shot.

  33. Yikes says:

    i think tptb will let the stock market drop to 8500 maybe 8000 and then inject whatever remaining stimulus they have.

    as would the republicans, O’s crew will wait as long as possible so the impact lasts until it is voting time.

    haven’t seen much reaction to this Ireland article.


    i agree less govt intervention is better, but this is the potential risk of not enough govt help WHEN times are bad

  34. Simply Ravishing HEHEHE says:


    That guy’s fantastic. I like his Helen Thomas bit “George Bush understood we need to protect Israel because we need the Jews around to have Armageddon so Jesus can come back”.

  35. Mr Hyde says:


    The government has decisively failed the people. The help needed was a solid and REAL jobs program ala WPA 2.0 that would have transitioned the US economy back to a production economy during the depressionary spike in unemployment and used thw WPA 2.0 projects to keep the american population gainfully employed while also redeveloping the skills needed for a production economy.

    The whole “prop up the zombie bank and pretend all is well” is suicidal in the end.

    The fact that the current economist bigwigs and political big dogs scream for Keynesian stimulus is also bogus. if the actually followed Keynes they would have been saving during the boom times so that they could support the economy in the bust times. No savings ever occurred. It was all spend spend spend to keep the pretty American lifestyle mirage together even though the underlying support structure rotted out a decade ago.

  36. chicagofinance says:

    Mr Hyde says:
    June 30, 2010 at 8:23 am
    I love market days like yesterday. Buy Buy Buy!


    I told you several weeks ago…a big bat to the stomach….we are going to get 6 weeks of this…avoid until closer to Labor Day…

  37. Mr Hyde says:

    I’m with doom. Let it all burn to the ground so we can get on with rebuilding our society. The whole Weekend At Bernies economy is getting very old.

  38. Mr Hyde says:


    I understand i am gambling. Hence i only use money i can afford to walk away from. I also play with tight stops and NO margin.

  39. Mr Hyde says:

    I appreciate the concern though :)

  40. Mr Hyde says:

    I learned finance from a circus chimp. anyone who listens to anything i say related to finance is highly likely to lose money.

  41. still_looking says:

    Yesterday was a sell, sell, sell (shorts, that is.)

    I also agree with Doom. More to come.

    Looked at 30 yr fixed — it’s at 4.67?

    NO demand. None. I’m only sorry I didn’t close one of my last long positions (a small stake in vfinx.)

    Or will our gubmint start QE-ing again?


  42. still_looking says:

    Hyde, 38

    You are right. Instead of “bread and circuses” we should have been educating folks to reality and preparing them to “the way it is gonna be..” Unfortunately that education may have incited a bit of anger.

    I can’t say that I am not scared.


  43. Alap says:

    NEW YORK (Reuters) – Private employers added a paltry 13,000 jobs in June, compared to a revised gain of 57,000 in May, a report by a payrolls processor showed on Thursday.

    The May figure was originally reported as a gain of 55,000.

    The median of estimates from 30 economists surveyed by Reuters for the ADP Employer Services report, jointly developed with Macroeconomic Advisers LLC, was for a rise of 60,000 private-sector jobs in June.

    The ADP figures come ahead of the government’s much more comprehensive labor market report on Friday.

    That report is expected to show a fall in nonfarm payrolls of 110,000 in June overall, as many temporary workers hired to complete the government’s decennial census were laid off.

    However, a gain in private payrolls of 112,000 is expected, according to a Reuters poll of analysts.

    Economists often refer to the ADP report to fine-tune their expectations for the payrolls numbers, though it is not always accurate in predicting the outcome.

  44. Comrade Nom Deplume aux maison says:

    [29] knife

    Only somewhat for laughs (meaning somewhat serious), here are the
    people I want in my nompound:

    Knife, cuz he can hunt;
    Hyde, and his lovely family;
    Morpheus, provided he brings ample brewing supplies;
    Clot, provided he is amply medicated and brings his own booze.

    Sorry Barbara, in the event of TSHTF, I’ll take survival skills over witty repartee any day.

  45. Comrade Nom Deplume aux maison says:

    [46] alap

    That’s gonna leave a mark.

    Well, off to my current employ for another day of on-line CLEs.


    (and no Clot, it doesn’t mean I am gonna go postal).

  46. still_looking says:

    Nom, 47



  47. Comrade Nom Deplume aux maison says:

    [49] still

    Sorry Still, an oversight. Was focused on the discussion at hand.

    Besides, I thought you knew you were already on the Nompound short list?

  48. Comrade Nom Deplume aux maison says:

    I would love to see the Fat Man trying to use this to get businesses across the Hudson.

    “Finally, NY Gov. David A. Paterson and legislative leaders have found something they can agree on: that hedge fund managers from Connecticut and New Jersey should pay the state of New York millions more in taxes.

    As they grapple with a gaping budget shortfall, Mr. Paterson and the lawmakers plan to enact a tax change that will treat much of the compensation earned by the fund managers who work in New York but live outside the state as ordinary income.

    Many fund managers are paid a flat management fee of 2 percent of assets, plus — as a performance incentive — as much as 20 percent of any profits they generate. The latter amount, known as “carried interest” or “the carry,” has been taxed federally at a rate of 15 percent because it is treated as a capital gain, rather than as ordinary income, which is subject to rates as high as 35 percent.

    Democratic leaders in Congress have tried three times so far this year to reclassify that compensation as ordinary income. They have failed each time.

    In New York, by contrast, lawmakers over the weekend embraced a proposal by Mr. Paterson to begin taxing nonresident fund managers’ carried interest.

    Budget officials in Albany hope to reap about $50 million a year from the change.

    But tax lawyers and representatives of investment firms argue that the fund managers could wind up being taxed twice on the same earnings, and warn that those who already live in places like Greenwich, Conn., or Summit, N.J., could decide to move their businesses out of New York altogether and work closer to home.

    “It could be one more reason to move,” said Richard S. Zarin, a tax lawyer at the firm Morgan, Lewis who represents a number of investment fund organizers. “Having my office in New York versus Greenwich is now costing the partners who live in Connecticut more money than it used to.”


    This would absolutely cause deadweight loss to NY, and the hedgies have a strong incentive to GTFO of NY if that comes down (provided Christie and the dems give assurances that they won’t follow suit).

    Unfortunately, it wouldn’t mean much additional income for NJ, and not a lot of extra jobs, unless Christie could attract the NYC-based hedgies here.

    Then there’s the whole issue of the debt and democrats scaring the fish.

  49. Comrade Nom Deplume aux maison says:

    [45] sl

    “You are right. Instead of “bread and circuses” we should have been educating folks to reality and preparing them to “the way it is gonna be..” Unfortunately that education may have incited a bit of anger.”

    Well, actually, he tried to split the baby. 95% got bread and circus (in reality, much less), and the “wealthy” got the new reality.

    Problem is, the top tier of the wealthy are well-positioned to avoid new reality, thus leaving new reality for the crowd that thought they were getting bread and circus.

  50. Knifecatcher - Painhrtz says:

    Nom nice to know I’m on the short list, but I figured it was because I knew how to make antibiotics ; )

  51. Mr Hyde says:


    The Hyde family is honored to make the short list!

  52. still_looking says:


    I’m learning to shoot a variety of weapons :)
    and I also stockpile good scotch (for, well medicinal reasons, of course.)

    Just don’t ask me to sing….unless you are looking to scare off pests.


  53. still_looking says:

    Oh, and the “Still-lookings” can grow fruits and vegetables. :)


  54. Mr Hyde says:


    With a line up like that i am sure we could hold off a determined raid by a pack of one eyed squirrels!


  55. All "h-Train" Hype says:

    Deplume (47):

    What, no jj? He has “special” skills too.

  56. still_looking says:

    Hype, 58

    I can’t grow onions that well .. and we don’t stock enough crush valor for him… and Hyde can’t produce that much penicillin!


  57. Simply Ravishing HEHEHE says:

    Until we close below 1040 on a Friday we’ll be range bound between 1040 and 1110ish. But the trend is definately towards a break downwards which will likely end around 850.

    QE2 will definatly happen. I just have a hard time seeing it pre-election as from a political standpoint its getting too late for any economic upside to be felt from it prior to November.

    Once they do QE2 I am long like donkey kong. Never standing in front of that bus again.

  58. Mr Wantanapolous says:

    HE [61],

    Need 2 consecutive closes below 1040.

  59. Juice Box says:

    HEHEHE – QE2 as well as deficit spending insurance?


  60. Juice Box says:

    re: the magical 1040 enough market players are watching the 1040 to make it a self-fulfilling prophecy. Gonna be a fun ride…..be sure to buckle up.

  61. Simply Ravishing HEHEHE says:


    Just as long as it breaks I’ll be happy; and it will at some point soon. Absent QE I don’t see anything that could be an upside catalyst other than computers trading with each other.

  62. Mr Hyde says:

    I hate it when i trade drunk…

    London oil broker banned after trading while drunk

    The broker drunkenly purchased a net 7.13 million barrels of oil and the unusually high trading volume in the typically quiet overnight period sent prices surging.


  63. Shore Guy says:


    Are you still getting your money for nothing and your CLEs for free?

    Any luck finding solo office space?

  64. Shore Guy says:

    “The help needed was a solid and REAL jobs program ala WPA 2.0 that would have transitioned the US economy back to a production economy”


    That is the real shame about how we wasted the stimulus money on old tech instead of on new energy. It was a missed opportunity.

  65. Juice Box says:

    re #69 – Shore plenty of tax cuts and grant money was given for Alt energy projects. However there are still only about 60k jobs in the solar industry in the US.

    Also Sen Chuck Schumer recently tried to block money for a proposed West Texas wind farm because it would have generated as many as 3,000 permanent jobs in Shenyang, China (proposed site of the wind turbine construction), but would have created only 300 temporary jobs in the United States and a laughably trivial 30 permanent jobs here.

    Anyone who thinks the United States is going to compete with China for windmill and solar cell manufacturing, given that nation’s lower labor rates and greater access to vital rare-earth elements, is living in a fantasy world.

    What is needed is either a trade war or a real war to get jobs going, otherwise we need to turn this country in to Italy or France, low wages for everyone with full employment.

  66. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [53] knife

    Actually, I did not know that, but it would certainly come in handy.

  67. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    I am pretty sure this happens already. I expect it will happen a lot more, now that there is no moral hazard anymore.

    “But Nicholas Colas, chief market strategist at BNY ConvergEx Group in New York, wondered whether workers forced to take jobs beneath their earning potential and less than unemployment normally pays won’t learn how to game the jobs system, thus keeping the unemployment rate “elevated for years.”

    Colas envisions a scenario in which workers take low-paying restaurant and retail jobs long enough—normally 16 to 22 weeks—to qualify for unemployment benefits that pay more. They then will “find a way to be dismissed” so they can collect unemployment again while resuming their search for a better job.

    “I don’t mean to make this sound like a cynical view of the American worker. It’s not,” Colas said. “The unpleasant reality is that the labor market is deeply stagnant and people used to working and supporting their families will likely work the system any way they can to accomplish that goal.”

    Similarly, Resler said that in such difficult times it’s not an easy decision on whether to give up unemployment benefits that are taxed at a very low rate or to take a lower-level job that is taxed at a significantly higher rate.

    “it may well be that the labor force needs to adjust to an economy that’s different in scale,” he said. “The marginal tax rate on people who give up benefits can be very, very high. It may well be that it’s just not worth it.”

  68. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [70] juice

    “What is needed is either a trade war or a real war to get jobs going, otherwise we need to turn this country in to Italy or France, low wages for everyone with full employment.”

    The only way Obama succeeds is to return to an economy that we had in the sixties. Never mind that it would be hugely inefficient. I guess that is where the green jobs come in.

  69. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [68] shore

    Yes to line 1

    Not yet to line 2

  70. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [68] shore

    Was at least able to work out contingency arrangements with my day care provider while I am in limbo.

    That tells me they are feeling the drag too.

    Now I just have to work something out with the parking guy.

  71. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [57] hyde

    Actually, I welcome the squirrels. Last fall, the oak trees in my yard dumped a fcukload of acorns. Thousands of them got into the lawn and this year, it looked like an oak tree seedling farm.

    I cut the lawn very close and got up what I could (I have pulled hundreds of oak seedlings), but it is the squirrels that are doing the yeoman’s work. They are out there every day, sometimes 5 or 6, digging up acorns. If I spoke squirrel, I’d say bring your friends.

  72. morpheus says:


    glad to have made the short list.

    The problem will be how to store yeast in a SHTF environment at sufficiently cold enough temperatures.

    The other problem is access to vast amounts of barley. I am pretty sure I can figure out how to malt the barley.

    Crazy weather. . . . its playing havoc with the Belgian Saison that I am brewing. Fermentation temperatures all over the place. I do not do rigid temperature control for ales, only lagers.

    oh btw, we need some one to build a still at the nompound. Man cannot live on beer alone.

  73. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [58] h-train

    JJ would never consent to slumming it in some rural nompound, surrounded by the hoi polloi.

    He will simply flee to his Hamptons beach house and pay to have his food delivered.

  74. Comrade Nom Deplume says:


    For long term fuel storage, I am thinking that propane is best, both because the molecules don’t break down as easily as liquid hydrocarbons, and also because there is a tax benefit to being off the utility grid.

    I know you can’t speak to the tax issue, but can you point me to good info on storage life for propane?

  75. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [77] morph

    A still is easy technology. A fermenter is harder. As for malt, that’s old tech and we can certainly build a malthouse.

  76. Alap says:

    76 – Comrade:

    You don’t speak squirrel? clearly you didn’t go to a prestigious bergen county school then.

  77. morpheus says:

    speaking of squirels:


    yes, I do have a small child.

  78. Mr Hyde says:


    A still is very easy. essential the 1st half of my BS was based on stills.


    The storage life is essentially indefinite. propane is a stable molecule and does not decompose. The limiting factor would be the leak rate of the storage system if anything (measured in years/decades for a good system).

  79. Mr Hyde says:


    Between Knife and i we should be able to ferment pretty much anything you want.

  80. New in NJ says:

    morpheus –

    You might have to go all old school and maintain a yeast culture as was done in the days before refrigeration. It shouldn’t be that hard to do if you’re making malt. I would imagine that keeping the strain pure might be the hard part.

  81. jamil says:

    I’m sure sastry and Keith will argue that this is not happening..

    I just got an announcement from corporate HR. While the company is still evaluating all the details of the Nationalized..er I mean “Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act”, it causes the health care premiums to rise, already in 2011 and more significantly later on. Then some BS language that the company will continue providing competitive benefits at a cost affordable both to the company and employees.

    So the coverage goes down while rates go up.

    I think I’ll buy two houses now.

    I’m shocked. /sarc

  82. Mr Hyde says:

    New 85

    With standard aseptic techniques you should be able to keep a fairly pure strain even in a low tech environment if you can start with a pure strain.

  83. Knifecatcher - Painhrtz says:

    better squirrel video



  84. Mr Hyde says:


    if we have a little advance warning we could get some fairly hi end bio-engineering equipment for peanuts and have a very capable bench scale microlab


  85. Mr Hyde says:


    … then we add some of the following to start our own little tank farm after we use the bioreactor to grow out starter culture.


  86. Mr Hyde says:

    If you look a little harder you can find some great production equipment that is free is you agree to pick it up at the sellers sight.

  87. Knifecatcher - Painhrtz says:

    hyde, we know where all the high and low end labs are in the state. In a SHTF event my looting will be strategic and needs based.

    Morpheus who got you into homebrewing? I have been reading a few books but have not decided to take the plunge on equipment and batches yet. High end beer is getting expensive so I want to start brewing to my likes, would a class be the best place to start? Extensive science backround, more worried about the fine art parts that come from wisdom and not following a recipe.

  88. Mr Hyde says:


    Was it Pat who has the 2-1/2 ton truck? we may need to borrow it for a night or 2.

    Forget the commercial labs, most would have some real security to get past. just head on over to rutgers. Virtually no security and some very nice equipment if you happen to know where to look. A quick little in&out!


  89. Mr Hyde says:

    Knife 88

    Squirrel siege weapons?

    Your ideas are intriguing to me and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter.

  90. morpheus says:

    got into after my first job after college in the early 1990’s. batches sucked.

    really did not do it regullary unti about three years ago.

    Get John Palmer’s book “How to brew”. Also, get “fearless brewing”

    Dont, buy the plastic bucket fermenters. Go with “better bottles” TM or glass fermenters.

    Do get an airstone for proper airation of the wort. I would recommend an immersion wort chiller to chill the wort down in about 10-15 minutes.

    as long as you maintain proper sanitation, you will be fine. DO NOT USE BLEACH FOR SANITATION. use ISP (sic)

    As long as your sanitation is good and you clean your fermenter immediately after bottling/kegging, you will have drinkable beer.

    People have been brewing beer for thousands of years. . .it is not that difficult.

    Classes? not really neccessary. Perhaps I should run a clinic on homebrewing.

    start with malt-extract kits and eventually you will eventually want to do all grain brewing. All grain sounds complicated, but it is easy.

    There is guy on the internet called “denny”. Believe his website is called “Dennybrew”: he shows you how to make an easy mashtun(converted igloo cooler) and how to conduct all grain brewing. Believe, me after seeing his video, you will not believe how easy it is to do.

    too tired to proof-read.

  91. Sas3 says:


    “… it causes the health care premiums to rise, already in 2011 and more significantly later on.”

    We should interpret it in the context of the dramatic decline in insurance premiums we were all expecting to occur but for the passage of the health care bill.

  92. Knifecatcher - Painhrtz says:

    Morph thanks got the book, that has been my reference so far, coming from a lab I figured going with glass would be best, plastic carboys can foul and have a higher porosity level.

    I have seen that igloo cooler conversion when I started researching this a couple of years ago. A homebrewing GTG, can have it right after the skeet shooting.

    Hyde wish I could take credit, it is one of my go to videos when I need a laugh.

  93. Knifecatcher - Painhrtz says:

    Hyde if we could find a way to engineer a lighting mechanism for the squirrels it would be cheaper than burning oil for incindieries

  94. Mr Hyde says:


    I bet we could pickup a nice little stock pile of heavy naptha from the gulf for peanuts!!!!!

  95. Mr Hyde says:


    hmmm need to learn to brew a guiness type stout!

  96. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    Watching a scintillating CLE on nonprofits.

    Discussing Section 4958 intermediate sanctions. Oh, be still my beating heart!

  97. morpheus says:

    stouts are very easy to brew. With guiness, you must remember that they add a certain amount of soured, pasterized beer to the wort or bottle to give it that “twang”.

    most homebrewers start with a stout or porter as their first beer.

  98. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [81] alap

    “You don’t speak squirrel? clearly you didn’t go to a prestigious bergen county school then.”

    Everyone I know from Bergen county is a pu-ssy. I’l join stu’s hockey team so we can take on some of Bergen’s best. Will feel good to bring the lumber on someone again.

  99. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [83] Hyde,

    Thanks. Propane is commonly used in the Northeast, especially in Northern N.E. where utilities haven’t laid out gas lines. Since the companies will usually provide the tanks, storage is virtually cost free, but you are tied to the company for supply. Having a very large tank will provide a lot of stability in a SHTF scenario.

    Further, you can be on propane and be off the grid, not subject to the vagaries of utilities (at least for heat/cook). In the future, when gov will rely on ratepayers to help finance deficits, this can be very nice.

  100. morpheus says:


    I use the igloo conversion with the stainless steel braid. Easy to construct, easy to use.

    If you do go all grain, get a BarleyCrusher TM to crush the grain. Crush the grain just before you put it in the mash tun.

    After I brew a belgian trippel, will have to re-order another 55 lbs of Pilsner malt. I am starting to run low.

  101. Nomad says:

    Speaking of Bergen County – I need to rank the jerkiness of several NJ towns. By jerkiness, I mean nasty and rudeness among the local population and for purposes of this exercise, I am only looking at communities with a large portion of their population who have college degrees.

    Franklin Lakes seems pretty jerky to me – a 9.75 out of 10.
    Short Hills, around 9.25
    Summit – 9.15 – 9.20
    Bridgewater is where I have difficulty – am thinking 8.2 because while wealthy, not quite as affluent as the towns above and a lot further from NYC.


  102. Mr Hyde says:


    I agree with your fuel assessment. if i were to build a nompound one of the primary considerations is the installation of a 500 or 1000 gallon buried propane tank and a propane/duel fuel generator.

    With 1000 gallons of propane you could casually run a home entirely off the grid for about a month if your conservative you could pull off 2 – 3months depending on your setup.

    Another consideration is that you can buy duel fuel conversion kits for most gasoline cars that allow them to run off of both gas and propane. If you have a large tank its not to hard to get a professional to install a filling port on your main line in order to refill 30 lb cylinders. Of course there are usually local regulations regarding refilling that you may or may not not choose to follow.

  103. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [106] Nomad

    By that standard, I would put Westfield at about 8.85

  104. Anon E. Moose says:

    Nomad [106]


    Yeah, I want the minute of my life back that it took to read that post and write this response.

  105. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    The New Normal . . .

    “U.S. unemployment is likely to stay high for a long time, two Federal Reserve officials said Wednesday, suggesting the U.S. central bank is in no rush to raise its ultra-low interest-rate policy.

    The dovish comments, from Chicago Federal Reserve President Charles Evans and Federal Reserve Governor Elizabeth Duke, came two days before a government report expected to show that U.S. non-farm payrolls fell in June.

    If that occurs, June will mark the first decline in monthly non-farm payrolls this year.

    The Chicago Fed’s Evans said the economic recovery is “definitely on,” with growth expected at 3.5 percent this year.

    But inflation is dropping, and he expects it to run below his guideline of 2 percent for the next three years or more.

    Meanwhile, unemployment is at 9.7 percent, “and it’s going to be a number of years before it’s going to get down to any type of rate that we might almost say is acceptable,” Evans said in an interview with CNBC Wednesday.

    Taken together, low inflation and high unemployment mean that the Fed’s current accommodative monetary policy is still needed, he said. . . .”

  106. Mr Wantanapolous says:

    “Everyone I know from Bergen county is a pu-ssy.”


    Hope you don’t get stuck in Lodi.

  107. Pat says:

    Cindy, lisoosh, teachers and parents of elementary students:

    Can you tell me if you have any experience with the overall success/failure of breaking the 3rd, 4th or 5th grade into part-time teacher groups?

    This does not include advanced placement groups, specials or IEP’s.

    This would only include total classes broken into groups to be assigned to part-time teachers instead of one full-time teachers. For example, a fourth grade class of 120 students broken into four sections of 30, and two of the sections being taught by 4 part-time teachers. The students would still be required to attend separate advanced placement sessions with one or more of the six teachers, or with other IEP teachers and specials, including music, art, PE, etc.

  108. Simply Ravishing HEHEHE says:

    “The Chicago Fed’s Evans said the economic recovery is “definitely on,” with growth expected at 3.5 percent this year.”

    She also believes in the Santa Claus and The Easter Bunny.

  109. Mr Hyde says:


    Ac`cording to my niece, the easter bunny now leaves $20 under your pillow!!! That is some serious inflation from when i got a quarter!!!

  110. relo says:

    104: Let it be known that we’ve not met.

  111. relo says:

    or 103.

  112. homeboken says:

    Where is the PPT? Going to get nasty into the close

  113. sas says:

    “Where is the PPT? Going to get nasty into the close”

    better wake them up.


  114. sas says:

    “She also believes in the Santa Claus and The Easter Bunny.”

    and the toof fairy.


  115. Simply Ravishing HEHEHE says:


  116. Knifecatcher - Painhrtz says:

    “Everyone I know from Bergen county is a pu-ssy.”


    i have 8 missing teeth, broke my nose six times, not all of us hockey guys from BC are pu$$ies. put away the broad brush : )

  117. Simply Ravishing HEHEHE says:


    That’s one day below 1040

  118. jcer says:

    I grew up in bergen, and I can assure you there are some crazy people in Bergen, even more so in the wealthy areas because the kids think they can get away with some ridiculous sh*t.

  119. Final Doom says:

    Die, market, die!!!!!!!

  120. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [121] knife

    I said “everyone I know.” Blog notwithstanding, and the fact that you would be welcome in the Nompound, I can’t really say I know you. And I don’t even know where Lodi is.

  121. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [123] jcer

    “kids think they can get away with some ridiculous sh*t.”

    Don’t doubt it, but I have observed that they tend to flee when the axe comes out of the trunk.

  122. Final Doom says:

    No real news here; just some bait for us tinfoil hat guys.

    “It may come as a surprise to some that when the market’s performance is expressed in the opposite of infinitely dilutable paper, we are currently just barely 15% higher than the generational S&P low of 666. As the chart below demonstrates, the S&P expressed in gold is plunging, and has dropped 22% from its 2010 highs, down 18% from the beginning of the year, and just 15% higher than March 5, 2009. As Russia and GLD have been demonstrating so aptly over the past 5 months, gold is not dilutable, and can not be contaminated with various Greek sovereign bond holdings. It is, in summary, pure, and is immune from that strain of 100% lethal, and printerborne, Central Banking syphilis where one’s paper rots off. Which is why the Dow may easily pass 36,000. The issue is that at or about that time, the Dow to Gold ratio will be 1. Note also, the downward channel in the SPX/Gold index: each day this channel is not broken, is another day that Bernanke pops a few extra Ambien.”


  123. sas3 says:

    If things get out of control, I think a spider hole is probably better option than the *pounds. I am talking Saddam’s hide out type, but with fewer photos, lesser cash, and more water, grains, and canned food.

    I wonder what was that guy thinking with cash, posters of J Lo, and blue pills in there? He wanted to be ready in case some stray model slides down the spider hole?

  124. Simply Ravishing HEHEHE says:

    “blue pills”

    In an economic collpase those might be worth more than booze?

  125. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [128] sas3

    Wwll, you are pretty small so a spider hole may be just fine for you. I prefer something a bit more comfortable.

    Spider holes are where you hide the food, seeds, ammo, and booze (and periodically the wife and kids).

  126. Mr Hyde says:

    HEHE 129

    guns, drugs (blue pills included), gold. three things that can be used in most places as money.

    Note that back in my college days there was a boutique version of X mixed with v1agra. it was called v1agra-candy or VC. was very popular in some circles.

  127. Mr Hyde says:


    What would that mixture do to you besides the obvious? any potential nasty effects of that mixture (as well as some alcohol most of the time)?

  128. grim says:

    any potential nasty effects of that mixture (as well as some alcohol most of the time)?

    Depends on whether or not the “X” that it was mixed with was actually MDMA or some other amphetamine-based cocktail as was common of the era (with a markedly different (psycho)pharmacology).

  129. Mr Hyde says:


    One of the guys ran it through HPLC. It was mostly MDMA with some amphetamines mixed in as well as v1agra

  130. grim says:

    Biopsychology honors in my undergrad..

  131. Mr Hyde says:


    Surprisingly i never partook. I was a bit leery of mixing and matching such things.

    I am familiar with MDMA and the various forms of X in general, but was curious what the mixture at hand might do. I would guess that it could put quite a strain on your heart, but i’m no doctor.

  132. Simply Ravishing HEHEHE says:

    Good Kevin Depew Piece:

    Five Things You Need to Know: The Modern Stealth Depression Revisited


  133. jamil says:


    “House Prices Are Still Too High And They’re Going To Tank — Ritholtz”


    In short, because house prices are still too high.

    Even after a plunge of more than 30% from the 2007 peak to the 2009 trough, house prices still did not fall to their long-term “fair value” level relative to incomes and rents of the past century. Over the next year or so, Ritholtz expects prices will resume their fall and drop at least another 10% before bottoming.

    What are the factors that will continue to drive prices down? Mainly, an ongoing imbalance of supply and demand.

    Basically, we still have way too many houses for the current level of demand. It’s true that houses are more “affordable” than they have been for decades, but many of the folks who might be interested in buying houses have lost their jobs or are working off huge debt loads accumulated in the past. And that means that they’re not queuing up to buy still-over-priced houses again.

    Normally, after a bubble, prices not only return to the mean but crash right through it, and Ritholtz thinks that that may be possible again this time.

    See 15 charts showing why house prices have further to fall >”


  134. morpheus says:

    spoke to wife:

    She just started spouting information that some “financial expert” spewed on oprah: “real estate is the key to accumulating wealth. Just don’t overpay”

    so two years post bubble, this is the shit that people are hearing. It must be true its on Oprah(sarcasm now off).

    good lord, we truly are doomed.

    I sense a fight coming with the wife on “financial” issues and where to invest our money.

    Tried to explain that housing is consumption and the real return on real-estate, excluding carry costs. No effect.

    Can’t get through the noise created by HGTV and Oprah. Next few days are going to be miserable!

  135. morpheus says:

    jamil: thanks for posting. will have to read and print out article to show wife. . . .just like i had to do in 2008 & 2009 to convince her that a bubble existed.

  136. Firestormik says:


    Last time I brewed this

    came out nicely

    ,100.Mr Hyde says:
    June 30, 2010 at 2:16 pm

    hmmm need to learn to brew a guiness type stout

  137. sas says:

    “guns, drugs (blue pills included), gold. three things that can be used in most places as money”

    correct those are major currencies
    add to that cigarettes & coca-cola.

    but, you won’t learn these things with your wee MBA.


  138. still_looking says:

    Hyde, 137

    No worse than coke or crystal meth. Those are far worse on heart muscle.

    With a biopsych degree, grim probably knows more… We see garden-variety stuff.

    Coke-heads, by far, are the funniest. Best is when they are “formicating” (no not fu*king) but they swear there are bugs crawling on them…

    Immediate requirement for a urine drug screen. Fun explaining to them that it’s from the c0caine. They swear on their mother’s graves they “ain’t used none of dat shit…” blahblahblah.

    Me: “Uh, yeah, sure..” So, um here’s some benzos to settle you down… Don’t do any more c0caine, okay?”

    Them: I ain’t done dat stuff…I swear.

    Me: Whatever.


  139. sas says:

    “guns, drugs (blue pills included), gold. three things that can be used in most places as money”

    another thought, when we spent sometime in the middle east, we used timber, rubber tires, and sometimes a few Toyota Land Cruisers instead of paper currency as an exchange.


  140. still_looking says:

    Morph, 140

    “real estate is the key to accumulating wealth. Just don’t overpay”

    Must’ve damn near killed you not to belly-laugh at that comment.


  141. still_looking says:


    thanks. I left the house and forgot to reset my sell targets on DRV. Blew the whole position out — made a pile but now I’m empty!

    We are truly, truly f*cked.


  142. still_looking says:

    Oh, Please Lord, just one more sky high rally — I promise not to blow it (by not resetting my sell limits this time.) Just let me reload one more time.



  143. sas says:

    “Me: Whatever”

    I’d never touch drugs, its filth.
    and there ain’t no damn way I am going to support some black ops with the profits.

    profits, that are used for fractional banking.

    and snoop dog is a twit, he trys to make it taboo so your dumb teen things he is cool or a rebel smoking a joint.

    What a scam. and we got Arizona blaming those that cross the Rio…ha..ha..

    what a joke!

  144. Confused in NJ says:

    143.sas says:
    June 30, 2010 at 6:37 pm
    “guns, drugs (blue pills included), gold. three things that can be used in most places as money”

    correct those are major currencies
    add to that cigarettes & coca-cola.

    but, you won’t learn these things with your wee MBA.


    In NY Cigarettes are worth more then Gold.

  145. sas says:

    “In NY Cigarettes are worth more then Gold”

    yup, all the trucks crossing the GWB ain’t just carrying fruits and vegtables the Fairway market.


  146. Confused in NJ says:

    144.still_looking says:
    June 30, 2010 at 6:42 pm
    Hyde, 137

    No worse than coke or crystal meth. Those are far worse on heart muscle.

    Similar to Avandia it would seem, although not legal?

  147. dan says:

    Juice Box,

    You don’t think Cynthia Murphy couldn’t doll herself up? And by the way, you don’t see was trained in um some special treats for the rich clients of her choosing or the SVR’s choosing?

  148. Shore Guy says:


    Have not had a chance to read much of the thread today. Are you still taking money away frpm the DSM guy’s partner draw?

    If they let you work tomorrow, it is a new month….

  149. NJGator says:

    Checking in from Vegas. Haven’t done a foreclosure tour yet, but the Encore is sweet. Stu and I have gotten paid a few hundred to stay here. Unfortunately the view from our room is of Circus Circus, but I will take a view of Circus Circus over staying there any day of the week.

    Tonight we will be off to Caesar’s for some fine dining on Captain Cheapo’s comp account and tomorrow we are going to see the Cirque du Soleil Beatles show at The Mirage.

  150. Comrade Nom Deplume aux maison says:

    [154] shore

    Still there, but I got a new piece of intel from another associate that strongly suggests it will be tomorrow or Friday.

    So I put off all my clients until next week and got in another six credits.

    Home now. Was already feeling poorly when I learned my daughter’s latest fish is on its way to the big Tank in the Sky. Decided to open the MacAllan.

  151. Comrade Nom Deplume aux maison says:

    The caretakers in my younger daughter’s day care class made a big “We’ll miss you” poster for her with handprints from all her little friends.

    That cuts to the quick. That and older daughter telling you that she’ll give you money from her sidewalk lemonade stand.

    Maybe I’ll need two scotches.

  152. Firestormik says:


    Feel free to contact me regarding the fish. I have 125 gal and 29 gal tanks. I lost a lot of fish until I figured out what I was doing wrong.
    Get my email from Grim.

  153. Comrade Nom Deplume aux maison says:

    [160] firestormik

    Thanks. I can use all the help I can get. Also, my NJRE email is nomdeplumenj@gmail.com

  154. New in NJ says:

    I don’t know much about fish, but it hurt like hell a couple of months ago when our beta went blind (couldn’t find her food) and lost her ability to control her ballast.

    I put her down with a nice dose of vodka. That’s kinda like the way I’d want to go.

  155. Mr Hyde says:


    how about adderall? Its just pharma grade crystal meth (Methamphetamine). It doesnt seem to be too hard on the heart from what i know of it. The issue would seem to be not so much the drugs, but the contaminants in the drugs?.?.?.

    I would imagine the byproducts and cutting agents in a lot of street drugs are pretty nasty. Especially the way they cook meth.

  156. Firestormik says:

    You’ve got mail.

  157. Pat says:

    BTW, Hyde, go ahead and make fun of me driving a Civic.

    However, the ex-bf who still hounds me owns his own trucking company and just happens to be a Desert Storm detonation systems engineer.

    Never, ever discount the value of Civic connections.

  158. Pat says:

    Gator, I’m living vicariously through you today, so keep up the reports. Love first class upgrades, Caesar’s (we did the top floor honeymoon suite when we got married), and the entertainment report.

    Crappy happenings here, except my kid. she always comes through. Won two of her three events tonight.

  159. Pat says:

    Now I gotta figure out if I need to put her back in private or Catholic school to avoid a part-time teacher program.

    I really support public schools, but I can’t stand the whole switching rooms every hour for a kid who’s 8 or 9.

  160. still_looking says:

    Hyde 163

    Adderall. Hmmm remember it is ostensibly made in clean manner, with a regulated amount of drug per pill, not “extended” with levamisole like coke and other drugs are and isn’t used in doses that are cardiotoxic a la crystal meth.

    They day I need “better living through chemicals” — it will be with big pharma made stuff. Not some pissed-in vat of cooked up, snot-soaked dealer garbage.

    While I do mostly agree with SAS regarding avoiding a lot of prescribed drugs, I also know the benefits of some of them. YMMV.

    (off to work…)


  161. still_looking says:

    But before I leave,

    This little gem….

    Because nobody is ever supposed to have any pain, ever.

    Woooo hoooooo! Drugs for all!


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