“Housing is showing no ability to move to the upside”

From Bloomberg:

Sales of U.S. Existing Homes Probably Climbed to Second-Lowest on Record

Sales of existing homes in the U.S. probably climbed in August to the second-lowest level on record, indicating housing remains depressed a year after the economic recovery began, economists said before a report today.

Home resales rose to a 4.1 million annual pace, behind only July’s 3.83 million as the weakest in a decade’s worth of data, according to the median of 72 estimates in a Bloomberg News survey. Other reports may show jobless claims held at a two- month low and the index of leading indicators increased.

“Housing is showing no ability to move to the upside,” said Eric Green chief market economist at TD Securities Inc. in New York. It will take gains in employment, an improvement in confidence and a decline in the number of houses on the market for the industry to rebound, he said.

Economists surveyed project the jobless rate will average more than 9 percent through 2011, undermining confidence and signaling foreclosures will hinder real estate as households struggle to make mortgage payments. A distressed housing market was among reasons the Federal Reserve cited this week when it said it’s willing to take additional steps to spur growth.

The National Association of Realtors is scheduled to release the sales figures at 10 a.m. in Washington. Survey estimates ranged from 3.8 million to 5 million. Comparable data, which combines single-family houses and condominiums, began in 1999.

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124 Responses to “Housing is showing no ability to move to the upside”

  1. grim says:

    Where the heck did all the tax dollars go??

    From the Montclair Times:

    Stimulus funds won’t save teacher jobs in Montclair this year

    A much-heralded federal stimulus program that was supposed to save the jobs of laid-off teachers this year probably won’t have any impact on Montclair’s public schools until next year, according to officials.

    Montclair School District officials said they received confirmation Monday that the district is eligible for up to $300,000 in funding from the federal Education Jobs Fund bill approved by Congress last month.

    However, Schools Superintendent Frank Alvarez said the funding earmarked for Montclair in that legislation would have no impact on the district’s current school year and would not restore any of the nearly 90 staff positions eliminated in its $110.5 million budget for 2010-2011.

  2. grim says:

    From the AP:

    Poll: N.J. voters want public workers’ costs hiked

    A poll released Wednesday shows New Jersey voters approve of Gov. Chris Christie’s proposal to raise health care costs for public workers, and they’re split on whether to reduce pension benefits negotiated by current employees.

    A Monmouth University/ Gannett New Jersey Press Media Poll found nearly half of voters surveyed feel government workers should pay at least 25 percent of their health care premiums. They now pay about 8

    The poll showed voters were divided at 46 percent on whether the governor should cut pension benefits for the current work force.

    Christie has proposed pension and health benefits reforms that include a graduated increase in health insurance costs to 30 percent, raising the retirement age and eliminating cost of living increases to pensions. Most of the proposals require legislative approval.

    Christie has said the reforms are necessary to shore up a pension system for teachers, police and firefighters and state, county and municipal workers that is underfunded by at least $46 billion. The health benefits fund is underfunded by an estimated $75 billion, Christie has said.

    An overwhelming 78 percent of those polled seemed to agree, saying that pension costs are out of control.

  3. grim says:

    From the Washington Post:

    Under piles of paperwork, a foreclosure system in chaos

    The nation’s overburdened foreclosure system is riddled with faked documents, forged signatures and lenders who take shortcuts reviewing borrower’s files, according to court documents and interviews with attorneys, housing advocates and company officials.

    During the housing boom, millions of homeowners got easy access to mortgages while providing virtually no proof of their income or background. Now, as millions of Americans are being pushed out of the homes they can no longer afford, the foreclosure process is producing far more paperwork than anyone can read and making it vulnerable to fraud.

  4. Shore Guy says:

    “making it vulnerable to fraud”

    So, something that begins with a fraud ends with one. In recent years, the whole system seems to have been one big fraud.

  5. grim says:

    From the WSJ:

    Banks Pressed on Sour Home Loans

    Big U.S. banks are facing legal pressure to make up for losses tied to pools of soured low-end mortgage loans.

    In the latest effort, a group of investors in 2,300 mortgage securities worth roughly $500 billion is seeking to force several banks that originated or are now servicing faulty subprime-mortgage loans to repurchase or modify them.

    The move follows other similar efforts. Bond and mortgage insurers, hard hit in the housing crisis, have filed lawsuits accusing lenders and banks of sticking them with flawed loans marred by poor underwriting and faulty appraisals.

    In any case, analysts say the efforts could force banks to disclose difficult-to-obtain information about the loans, such as how poorly they might have been originated or are being managed.

    That data could be used to force banks to repurchase as much as $133 billion in souring home loans, according to Compass Point Research & Trading, a Washington, D.C., boutique investment bank.

  6. Poltroon says:

    Carling Cup 3rd round:

    Newcastle 4, Chelsea 3

    Champions League next!!!!!

  7. Poltroon says:

    Shore (5)-

    I’ve been saying for years that virtually every short sale file I complete is an open-shut proof of mortgage fraud, usually on the part of both borrower and lender.

    I have yet to be contacted by anyone in law enforcement in regard to this. And, I don’t ever expect to be contacted.

  8. Dissident HEHEHE says:

    ‘It’s Just Happening Spontaneously’
    PBS NewsHour correspondent recently sat down with colleague and business and economics correspondent Paul Solman and asked him how the series of pieces he’s been doing in recent weeks and months about people who are underemployed, unemployed, and really trying to find work have been different than the range of stories he’s been doing for the show for so long.

    The striking thing — one striking thing — and actually, a somewhat disturbing thing when you’re …doing the interviewing, is how many of them are now — or have been in the last six months months, let’s say — crying on camera. It’s just happening spontaneously. Now, I’ve been doing reporting on TV about business and economics for 33 years — I swear to you, in the last six months I’ve had more people cry on camera than in the entire thirty-two-and-a-half years before that.

    Just in case there are any investors reading this and looking for any sort of excuse to put their buying boots on, he said “crying,” not “laughing,” or “smiling,” or “cheering.” Oh, wait, those are also bullish words these days, aren’t they?


  9. Poltroon says:

    he (9)-

    All those crybabies have to learn to embrace the oblivion.

    Nut up, bitchez.

  10. Mr Hyde says:


    as munger says, suck it up cry babies only banks and billion dollar investors get bailed out

  11. chicagofinance says:

    One of the wittiest names of a consumer product I recall in recent memory. Fully explains its functionality, yet is perverse for our times…..from Williams Sonoma no less….

  12. chicagofinance says:

    I have to believe some clown will use weed with it…..

  13. Painhrtz says:

    Crying once again, thank you politcal correctness for immasculating a proud populace of former go-getters witha can do attitude. Now where is mine, the government has to owe me something.

  14. Mr Hyde says:


    Might as well do it right: http://tiny.cc/odlgv

  15. Mr Wantanapolous says:

    Hyde [11],

    If you bail out mom and pop, the culture dies.

  16. Mr Hyde says:

    Mr Wantan

    If Munger isnt careful, him and his buddies may see the line “eat the rich” become literal.

  17. yo'me says:

    The Way Government Bonds Work: Lessons for Matt Bai
    Thursday, 23 September 2010 07:35
    Reporters for the NYT who write on economic policy issues should know the way government bonds work. However, that is apparently not the case with Matt Bai. In defending an earlier article in which he referred to the bonds held by the trust fund as “iou’s,” Bai responded to a reader’s question:

    “The principle to which you’re referring is that the government guaranteed all of this Social Security surplus money (which it spent) with Treasury Bills. The reality is that redeeming that trillions of dollars in debt would require issuing trillions more in debt.”

    Bai’s statement is of course true, but that is the case with all government debt. For example, suppose Mr. Bai decided to buy $100,000 of 30-year Treasury bonds. If he did this the government would turn around and spend the money that Bai had lent it. Bai seems to think there is something sinister in this story, but in fact that is usually what happens when a government or company issues bonds: it spends the money.

    Thirty years from now, in 2040, Bai will go to cash in his bonds. When he does this, the government will be forced to borrow another $100,000.

    This is the same story as the bonds held by Social Security. It is really very very simple. The government will have to redeem these bonds just like any other bonds. Now, Mr. Bai apparently wants the government to default on the bonds held by Social Security. It could do this just like it could default on any of the bonds it has issued.

    The people who would not get the Social Security benefits that they had paid for certainly would have good cause to be very angry if this happened, since it is a policy that is difficult to justify. Of course they may advocate that the country default on its other bonds, which might be appropriate if the country really is in such bad fiscal shape that it can’t meet its obligations to its retirees.

    As a practical matter, Bai is badly confused about the nature of the country’s debt burden. The debt that the country is now accumulating because of the downturn need not pose any long-term fiscal burden since the Fed can just hold the bonds and repay the interest to the government.

    The longer-term projections showing a serious deficit problem are all driven by projections of exploding health care costs. If we don’t fix our health care system then we will face serious economic problems, one of which will be the budget deficit. However, as all economists know, the real problem is with the health care system.

    Dean Baker

  18. yo'me says:

    Prior Consensus Consensus Range Actual
    Existing Home Sales – Level – SAAR 3.83 M 4.050 M 3.870 M to 4.500 M 4.13 M
    Existing Home Sales – M/M Change -27.2 % 7.6 %

  19. yo'me says:

    Prior Consensus Consensus Range Actual
    Leading Indicators – M/M change 0.1 % 0.1 % -0.2 % to 0.2 % 0.3 %

  20. Mr Hyde says:

    Yome 18

    The people who would not get the Social Security benefits that they had paid for certainly would have good cause to be very angry if this happened, since it is a policy that is difficult to justify. Of course they may advocate that the country default on its other bonds, which might be appropriate if the country really is in such bad fiscal shape that it can’t meet its obligations to its retirees.

    SS has been determined to be a welfare program/tax in multiple supreme court cases. “You” are not paying for anything. The money taken from your paycheck for the SS program (FICA) is used to pay current claims, not put into some sort of savings for “you” Its no different then someone claiming they paid for their welfare checks.

    SS is almost the definition of a pure ponzi scheme. It is no different then the average pyramid scheme.

  21. Mr Hyde says:

    Yome 18

    The reality is that redeeming that trillions of dollars in debt would require issuing trillions more in debt.”

    This is correct if the government is running a deficit, but if we were actually paying down debt then the government could in theory pay the redeemed bonds through tax receipts, there fore retiring the debt. Of course the catch in that is that in a debt based currency that has a net deflationary effect. Something the government avoids at all cost.

  22. Dissident HEHEHE says:

    What’s Munger care? He’s in his 80’s. He’ll be dead before any revolution. Makes you hope there’s a hell.

  23. Poltroon says:

    hyde (11)-

    So much easier for us little people to cope when we realize God hates us and only loves banks and rich people.

  24. Poltroon says:

    chi (12)-

    Here’s my “smoker”.


  25. Poltroon says:

    BC (16)-

    The culture IS dead. Now, if we keep bailing out banksters, Mom and Pop die.

    “If you bail out mom and pop, the culture dies.”

  26. Al Gore says:

    Years of Pain to Come in Residential Real Estate.

    “At least 25% of American homeowners, or some 35 million dwellings, have negative equity. While prices on average have fallen back to 2002 levels, Peltier doesn’t expect further declines because of the huge support provided by mortgage interest rates at 50 year lows. So he sees a best case scenario of flat prices until this record excess inventory of 2.5 million homes is worked off, which can’t occur until 2012 at the earliest.

    Personally, I think Peltier is being optimistic because he doesn’t address the hurricane force headwinds of the retirement and downsizing of 80 million baby boomers, the parsimonious attitude of banks towards new borrowers, and the harsh reality of continued falling standards of living in the US. Continue to rent, not buy, and let the landlord worry about the rats in the attic.”

    No one talks about the over built retirement villages that dot the landscape. Many are brand new and never sold out their inventory.

  27. Mr Hyde says:

    Question for the collective:

    The current structure of healthcare seems to be driving 50+ year old workers out of the job market as companies don’t want the healthcare liability. I know 2 different guys in their 50’s who are highly skilled but unemployed basically because of this.

    With out a structural change to healthcare, not some BS tweak how does this change. Without somehow restricting healthcare costs it would seem we have doomed the boomers employment prospects.

    If we want to restrict healthcare costs it would seem that we either have to go to a government controlled system that dictates costs across the board (i.e medicare for all). or guarantee a core level of healthcare for all citizens and anything beyond that is free market. It would appear that no matter what the healthcare system must be radically altered. I think we there are plenty of examples of how well/or not, the first option works

  28. Mr Hyde says:

    Poltroon 24,

    What? God doesnt hate you, the government does.

    God loves you, hence beer, bud, and boobies!

  29. Al Gore says:



    Simple. Have the old people buy insurance. No one owes you anything. Want great healthcare? Pay for it.

  30. Sas3 says:

    They only gained 8% and they pay 15% tax on cap gains and dividends (almost all income), while the very low 6 digits folks pay 25% fed rate + 7.5% FICA. The GOP is able to do a contract on America promising more tax cuts for these guys.

    “The richest Americans got even richer this year, according to the new Forbes 400 list, even as the country’s total net worth tanked during the second quarter.

    The top 400, all of whom are worth at least $1 billion, saw their combined wealth increase 8 percent this year, to the dizzying total of $1.37 trillion, according to analysis from CNN.

    Meanwhile, according to data released last week by the Federal Reserve, the net worth of American households and non-profits in the second quarter of this year plunged 2.8 percent, or $1.52 trillion, from the previous quarter, to settle at $53.5 trillion.”

  31. Mr Hyde says:


    I believe that it would be in the nations interest as a whole for the government to provide for some basic level of care, but for it to be strictly limited. Anything outside of that should be up to the individual. That should include the ability to obtain drugs at a reduced price from foreign sources.

  32. Mikeinwaiting says:

    Al 30 not that simple, buy ins with what income?You will pay for it in increased cost as that age group goes to ER with no ins. Must be taken care of ask SL.

  33. Mr Hyde says:


    how goes the north woods?

  34. NJGator says:

    Tomorrow Stu goes under the knife, and today Lil Gator decided to have sympathy pains and couldn’t walk in the morning, missed the bus, had to be driven to school which made me miss my train to NY and pretty much blow my crazy day to smithereens. Was looking like it was going to be a completely miserable day, until I headed into the Dunkin Donuts by the Bloomfield station to kill the 40 minutes I had to wait for the next train. Got to listen to a bunch of members of the Newark City Firefighters Union b*tch about Chris Christie, and how it was unfair after working 23 years to make them “work an extra 5 to get my 65%” and how they are homeowners too and would love to have lower property taxes, “but at what cost? it’s not worth it if it means one less firefighter or one less teacher in the classroom.”

    Ah, good times.

  35. schabadoo says:

    Crying once again, thank you politcal correctness for immasculating a proud populace of former go-getters witha can do attitude.

    You would’ve been a hoot in the Depression…

  36. NJGator says:

    Grim 2 – Those 90 jobs are gone for a good long time, if not forever. Let’s see how many more go in 2011-2012 when Montclair likely loses the remaining $3.8M or so in state aid that is left.

  37. NJGator says:

    Facebook CEO donating $100M to Newark schools; announcement Friday on Oprah

    When the Oprah Winfrey show hits the airwaves tomorrow, Gov. Chris Christie and Newark Mayor Cory Booker will be seated beside the famous host. At some point, this political odd couple will be joined by a 26-year-old billionaire with a $100 million check.

    In an unusual mix of school reform, showmanship and politics the three will announce the kind of deal that will make most people do double takes and say, run that by me again.

    Here is how it goes according to two officials who have seen the framework of what will play out on Oprah’s set.

    Christie and Booker are expected to say that the Newark school system, under state control for 15 years, will be placed under Booker’s authority. Booker, with the governor’s support, will embark on an ambitious series of changes long opposed by teachers unions. Those changes will include an expansion of charter schools, new achievement standards and methods for judging which schools and teachers are effective, the sources said.

    Still with us? Here is where it gets a little strange.

    The overhaul of the largest school district in New Jersey will be made possible by a challenge grant of $100 million from Mark Zuckerberg, co-founder and CEO of Facebook. Zuckerberg is No. 35 on Forbes’ new list of richest Americans. The magazine estimated his worth at $6.9 billion — up $4.9 billion over the past year.

    His pledge of up to $100 million in initial money can be matched, presumably by a Booker-led fund-raising effort. Taken together, the announcement could mean a $200 million infusion into the Newark schools.

    The plan was confirmed by a third person with knowledge of Booker and Christie’s arrangements. The sources detailed the plans on the condition they not be identified because they were not authorized to go public before tomorrow’s show, which has been carefully orchestrated with all the participants.

    The story was first reported last night by The Star-Ledger on nj.com, the newspaper’s real-time news and information website.

    The announcement is scheduled to air live Friday in Chicago at 10 a.m. EDT and then rebroadcast at 4 p.m. on Channel 7 in North Jersey and Channel 6 in the southern portion of the state.

    The school plan calls for Christie to use his authority as the ultimate supervisor of the Newark district to name Booker a “special assistant to the governor” for education in the city. It is a maneuver never attempted before and one that includes some bold political footwork. Only the Legislature or the voters have the legal authority to decide the management structure of school districts. But under this agreement the state is still, technically, running Newark schools. Christie would be able to overrule Booker if the two disagree, the sources said.

    Naming Booker to essentially run the city’s long-beleaguered schools was a precondition for Zuckerberg, according to sources. Without that, the Facebook billionaire told officials he would not spend his philanthropic dollars in the Brick City.


  38. Mikeinwaiting says:

    Same old Ket with as twist, back to college while collecting. Very rusty been 30 years since I was in school. Having no problems though. Get this no fractions or decimals used in algebra, only whole numbers. The prof. doesn’t want to confuse them , I asked to be taught it so after class she goes over it with me. Go figure.

  39. Mikeinwaiting says:

    Gator 35 Priceless, lucky you. “Got to listen to a bunch of members of the Newark City Firefighters Union b*tch about Chris Christie, and how it was unfair after working 23 years to make them “work an extra 5 to get my 65%”

  40. Sas3 says:

    #39… when you get to advanced level, the only numbers you need to know are: “e”, “pi”, 0, and 1.

  41. Shore Guy says:

    “. It is no different then the average pyramid scheme”

    Except people are required to participate in SS.

  42. Shore Guy says:

    Gotta love transcendental numbers.

  43. Shore Guy says:

    They are perfect subjects for meditation.

  44. Sas3 says:

    The GOP’s plan of cutting Social Security and Medicare seem to be going on full steam. A few more steps back and we’ll lose the right of women to vote, though boys and girls would wear the same types and colors of clothes…

    Shore, surprised that you are against Social Security. Couple that with anti-pension sentiment, then everything will tie down to private savings or 401k savings. If someone doesn’t have that because some “small businesses” don’t give any 401k, soon NYC will rival Calcutta in the number of old beggars on the street.

  45. Sas3 says:

    #42… of course, I forgot “i”…
    A simple math beauty: e^(i*pi) + 1 = 0
    Don’t stare too much at it, you may develop a lust for math. Former train-puller and current teabagger O’Donnel doesn’t approve of that.

  46. Shore Guy says:

    i^i is also interesting

  47. Mr Hyde says:


    perhaps its my background, but i found symbolic math preferable to numeric math. I.e. Ax+B = C as opposed to 6X + 5 + = 9

  48. Mr Hyde says:


    for even more fun, try and elucidate the physical meaning of (i) imaginary numbers in equations governing physical systems.

  49. Shore Guy says:

    “Shore, surprised that you are against Social Security”

    I am not against the idea, just some of the excecution. And, as we will never see ech of our 16% back, I am not fond of losing the ability to save that money for my own retirement.

  50. nj escapee says:

    SAS3, No worries. SS isn’t going anywhere. I bet they will decide to partially transition some funds to privately managed accounts to keep some of the money away from the politicians. Nothing wrong with that.

  51. Libtard says:

    Social Security would be a good thing if the gubmint didn’t dip into it for spending in other areas. It is not a retirement account. At worst, it functions to keep seniors from resorting to eating Meow Mix and allows an upgrade to Fancy Feast. Only the wealthy are against Social Security. You really can’t blame them. They only want what is best for themselves. They can’t risk a reversal in their net worth like the other 99.5% of us.

  52. Libtard says:

    I, for one, would love to be able to invest some of my SS money myself. Of course, I think one should have to pass a finance exam to be given the right to do so. After all, Corzine’s candidate to play deputy gave all of her money to Madoff.

  53. JJ AKA John says:

    SS can never go away. Since SS has right to change eligibility age just keep raising it, make it 100 and it can even turn a profit.

  54. Juice Box says:

    re #41 – Here is one for you, try combining a simple Math and English lesson into a Financial lesson and never mind the “pi” since most people cannot understand the simplicity and beauty found in math, and that you also need to first master the basics. Most people can do basic addition, and multiplication but cannot do exponentiation and that is where the trouble starts.

    And the combined Math and English and Financial Lesson for today is
    everyone was looking for the “i” instead of their “e” and as any good English teacher would tell you you should never put your ” i” before and “e” or you will never get to “pi”.

    Off to lunch….

  55. Sas3 says:

    Hyde, same here. Relatively bad with numbers — a lot easier for me to deal with symbols instead of actual numbers. BTW, do you work in process control?

    Shore, agree i^i is also very cool. If you imagine in your imaginations, you end up with a lot of realities!

  56. schabadoo says:

    Since SS has right to change eligibility age just keep raising it, make it 100 and it can even turn a profit.

    Just make it 70 and wait for the fireworks. The town hall meetings would involve gunfire.

  57. Sas3 says:

    Lib #53… My first foray into IRA. 4K (2 year payment) early Y2k.
    Buy EXDS (was enamored by the “dot in dot com” related things) … shares wiped out.

  58. wtf says:

    The stock market is a Ponzi scheme

  59. Sas3 says:

    Tax Q… If the dems and repubs don’t agree on W’s tax cuts, and do nothing, do they automatically expire? Of course, the dems will fold like a cheap tent if repubs even have 50 seats in the senate.

    Obligatory rant:
    Between the repubs that are openly wh*res for business interests, and the dems that pretend to be for the common man, but are secretly wh*res for business interests, who is worse?

  60. Shore Guy says:

    Yes, they expire. But the Dems would get KILLED, politically, by th tax increase on th middle class.

  61. Shore Guy says:


    I too would like to be able to invest some our SS taxed-away money. BUT, I dont want to be limitd to securities. Why is investing in a vacation home, a multi-family house to rent, or farm land not as valuable a way of providing for one’s retirement?

  62. Al Gore says:



    You cant get something for nothing. You cant expand government welfare programs when the existing ones are flat out broke. The only solution is to collapse the entire structure. This is where we are headed and this is where it will go. The prudent who work, saved, and played by the rules and who still have the store of their life savings in US dollar denominated assets will be robbed blind.

    You cant run a medical practice on 100% Medicare. Numbers just dont work. Medical practices will be consolidated into hospitals where they can be regulated to death. Dr.’s will become employees of hospitals. All the other private practice employees will be SOL. That sounds good to Joe Public but when you break your ankle you will miss the soon to be defunct private sector.

  63. Al Gore says:



    The good Dr. Paul will make it voluntary for the youth and fund existing claims by shifting the defense budget to fund existing claims.

  64. Shore Guy says:

    For those who earn as much or more than the max amount taxed for SS, they are paying about $18,000 a year into SS, if self-employed. For couples who are in this boat, that is $36,000 a year they could be doing something with. Take that and add it to the max for retirement contributions, something like $35,000 a year x 2 and that is over $100,000 a year our couple could put away for their own retirement.

    Even if they could just sock away 1/2 of the SS tax, it is still $88,000 they could put away. We always max out our retirement contributions BUT, the extra $18,000-$36,000 sure would help.

  65. Al Gore says:


    “A few more steps back and we’ll lose the right of women to vote, though boys and girls would wear the same types and colors of clothes…”

    A few more steps forward and you will actually act like a responsible adult and take care of yourself and your family.

  66. Mr Hyde says:


    I dabble in process control but its not my primary activity

  67. Libtard says:


    Join our investment club. This year alone we are beating the indexes by almost 16%.

  68. Libtard says:

    You want hot, look at Netflix (NFLX) or Salesforce.com (CRM)

  69. Poltroon says:

    gator (35)-

    Too bad you didn’t enter that Dunkin’ Donuts armed with a machine gun.

  70. Poltroon says:

    Is the Facebook guy’s donation to Newark schools earmarked for teaching kids how to steal their friends’ ideas?

  71. Poltroon says:

    Mike (39)-

    Wanna give yourself a real head rush? Go back and re-read Fahrenheit 451. It’s all coming true.

  72. Poltroon says:

    schab (57)-

    This is all I have left to live for.

    “The town hall meetings would involve gunfire.”

  73. Sas3 says:

    Lib, in a year or two… Blew my cred at investment.. will take a while to recover..

  74. Anon E. Moose says:

    re [57];

    Just make it 70 and wait for the fireworks. The town hall meetings would involve gunfire.

    70? If they proposed to make it 62.5 the state-run media would be wall-to-wall with rented mobs of old people. Which is why it doesn’t make senst to even offer compromise measures.

  75. Confused In NJ says:

    Social Security Pensions are chunk change, compared to Public Sector Pensions. If you want to save money on Medical Costs, outlaw Well Care. Tell people to only go to the doctor if they are sick. They can’t go to the doctor feeling well, and then spend the rest of their lives on bogus Well Care treatments, like Cholesterol Medications.

  76. Libtard says:


    We expect to be around for a couple of decades at the minimum.

  77. Poltroon says:

    Time to convene some death panels.

  78. Comrade Nom Deplume aux maison says:

    [57] schab,

    “The town hall meetings would involve gunfire.”

    I don’t suppose we can count on you to be there?

  79. Comrade Nom Deplume aux maison says:

    [78] moose

    What will happen is means-testing. That is all but baked in at this point.

    That is where I am directing my estate planning efforts. Be more, seem less.

  80. Poltroon says:

    I’m directing all my efforts toward being gone.

    Chile looking better and better every day.

  81. Poltroon says:

    Bet that expat number is through the roof.

  82. yo'me says:

    Blockbuster has this RedHat type kiosk ,that is to compete with the latter.With internet movie download in demand.At 2 cents a share,you think they can reorganize and compete better against Redhat and other movie rental companies?

  83. yo'me says:

    Life is a Ponzi scheme

  84. Poltroon says:

    “Let’s be honest. Forget recessions, forget even Depressions, the US is an empire in decline. You can literally see it crumbling right in front of you. Just start looking at how people live, eat, and act on a day to day basis. Look at how our Government runs itself, how it manages our affairs, how it spends our tax Dollars. Look at how our justice system works, who it protects and who it punishes. It’s all out there, right in the open for you to see. You don’t need an expert degree or some kind of advanced education. It’s OBVIOUS to anyone who bothers looking around. The fact we don’t admit it doesn’t mean it’s not true.”


  85. chicagofinance says:

    JJ: The end is nigh……

    Fireman Ed facing charge for bumping Giants fan: report

    Fireman Ed Anzalone is facing a simple assault charge following an altercation with a Giants fan during the first football game at New Meadowlands Stadium last month, NJ.com reports.

    The lawyer for Giants fan Christopher Black told the website an East Rutherford judge agreed to charge Anzalone after a probable cause hearing.

    “A clerk at the courthouse in East Rutherford confirmed that Black and Anzalone will appear in court on a later date after Wednesday’s probable cause hearing,” the report says.

    The incident, shown during the game by ESPN, occurred in the first quarter Aug. 16 while Anzalone, a retired New York City firefighter, was about to attempt his signature “J-E-T-S, Jets, Jets, Jets!” cheer.

    “Fireman Ed essentially turned and first shoved him down,” Black’s lawyer, Alexander Iler, told the website. “And when Chris got back up, he started to chant ‘Giants Giants Giants’ again, (Ed) grabbed a helmet of some sort and shoved him down to the ground.”

  86. Juice Box says:

    re: #89 – Lol barely a shove, way too funny, this Giants Fan Christopher Black is a real girly-man for lawyering up and filing charges over this….


  87. yo'me says:

    Moody’s Investors Service changed New Jersey’s credit outlook to
    negative from stable Wednesday evening, citing its nearly $11 billion
    structural deficit, the end of federal stimulus funds, and the state’s
    unfunded retirement costs.

    Moody’s rates New Jersey’s $31.6 billion of outstanding general
    obligation and appropriation debt Aa2. The rating agency earlier this
    year recalibrated the state’s credit rating to Aa2 with a stable outlook
    from Aa3 with a negative outlook.

  88. Fabius Maximus says:

    33 points, mearly a flesh wound.

    “Today’s Siena poll has questionable results,” said Michael Caputo, Mr. Paladino’s campaign manager. “We’re confident we’ll see a wide variety of public poll results in this race, but we take each with a grain of salt.”


  89. JJ AKA John says:

    Off topic question, anyone ever have that lasik surgery, I am thinking of doing it. Since I am about that age where you start needed reading glasses don’t know if it is worth it, if anyone did it was it worth it and do you know of any doctors in NYC that does it.

  90. JJ AKA John says:

    I was at that Jets game, that Giant Nut charged down like 20 rows to get to Ed who was on a ledge that is ten feet above field to do his stchick. Ed is 50 years old plus and retired on disability from fire dept the nut almost pushed him onto field a good 12 foot drop, Ed did clock him a bit but he deserved it.

  91. Ben says:


    Joseph Dello Russo in Bergenfield, NJ. He’s supposedly been the goto guy for Lasik for decades. I remember his old NJ Eye Center building was the size of a hot dog stand. He now owns half the block and it’s completely dedicated to his Lasik Surgery.

  92. J. says:

    #65: I’ve been paying in since 1973. Do I get my money back, or am I just S.O.L., too bad, we gave all the money to the wealthy in tax cuts?

  93. Juice Box says:

    re: #98 – no political will, not going to happen. Spend the next decade learning Chinese you are going to need it.

  94. Poltroon says:

    Giants and Jets both suck, as does the NFL.

    I hope both sides lose.

  95. relo says:

    95: Reconcile these for me.

    was on a ledge… retired on disability

  96. sas3 says:

    J #97…

    If they can SS, you are SOL. However, when the rich trickle on you, it will give you a warm feeling outside.

  97. homeboken says:

    The only disability I can imagine for Fireman Ed is a mental one. The way he carries on at games does not indicate a sick or disabled man.

    Then again, he deserves his pony too, and his front row Jets tickets.

  98. make money says:


    I thought we were in a midst of a recession and fighting deflation????

  99. House Whine says:

    94, 96
    Yeah, I know a LOT about Lasik surgery. Bottom line is why bother having it if you are getting to the presbyopic stage? Will you mind having to wear reading glasses? If yes, what’s the point? If no, then maybe go for it. As to the dr. mentioned in #96, all I can say, is do some research on him (hint) before using him. Something interesting to keep in mind is that now when you have cataract surgery you can pay for a “bifocal” implant, thus eliminating the need for distance And reading glasses. Of course, most people don’t need cataract surgery until their 60’s or after. The cost right now for that bifocal implant is just a bit more than the cost of having Lasik.

  100. Ben says:

    “another open question. Do we see silver rage well north of 1000 or simply roar it’s way to 75-100”

    There’s no way to put a ceiling on it. Silver and Gold can enter speculative manias and surprise many to the upside. That being said, I’ve been buying Silver since it was $9. I’ll keep buying until about $50. It’s funny. As bullish as I am on Gold, I only own about 12 ounces. On the flipside, I have a few safety deposit boxes filled with. If you ask me, my ultimate price target on Silver is $100. I’ll never sell my entire stock pile though. Basically, my strategy is, accumulate as much as possible up to $50. Start selling at $75 and I’ll set about 1000 ounces aside to simply ride out however high it goes.

  101. Al Gore says:

    “Bet that expat number is through the roof.”

    Well theres 2 choices.

    1. Continue to work your ass off to support a bunch of entightled losers who couldnt solve a crossword puzzle and are too fat to dig a ditch.

    2. Convert your wealth to gold and get the f_ck out of the country.

    Show me the expat numbers. This country doesnt deserve freedom. Most of the losers here are groveling on their knees for the government to save them.

  102. Mr Hyde says:


    I have a typo in that quote ( shocking I know)

    I meant to say, will silver rage north of 100 not 1000

  103. Al Gore says:



    When you do sell you will be selling to the f_ckin UN. Keep your sh_t and join up with whoever looks like they are going to win.

  104. Juice Box says:

    Word to the wise there are lots of new investment funds starting up to work the inflation angle. Imagine what this new bubble is going to look like once all the dry powder rushes in to get in on the action. Boom!

  105. Nomad says:

    Has anyone seen this:


    The owners of one west as stated in this video are accurate. What I want to know is if the math the video portrays is accurate.

    Thank you,

  106. Comrade Nom Deplume aux maison says:

    [89, 95]

    I have a friend who is a season ticket holder, and had seats near Fireman Ed in the old stadium. He used to invite me to games (decidedly NOT a Jets fan) periodically. I went because it was a good time out with friends.

    He told me that nearly everyone there were season ticket holders and that they could not stand Fireman Ed. In this immediate circle, he is regarded as a complete a-hole. I had no dog in this fight, but based on what I observed on the few games I attended, I saw nothing to contradict this belief.

  107. Comrade Nom Deplume aux maison says:

    [108] Gore

    I’m shocked, shocked, to see that the IRS still has not released the quarterly expatriate report.

  108. Mikeinwaiting says:

    Nom 114 as long as it was not “unexpected”.
    Nomad 112 I do not doubt them for a second. We are being robbed blind.

  109. Comrade Nom Deplume aux maison says:

    [115] mike,

    I am really astounded by this. I follow this number, as do a handful of other tax attorneys, and at this point, I have no doubt (albeit no proof) that the report is being suppressed. It is now about 53 days overdue. While this report is never released on time, this delay is over twice the average delay.

    When the 4th quarter report for 2009 showed a huge spike in renunciants, it made news. Even the NYT covered it. So there is clearly going to be some sensitivity here, and I have no other reasonable explanation for such a delay here, other than administration suppression.

    If this report is released on or after Nov. 3, it doesn’t matter what it contains. If it has a huge number, the administration will have to take the hit for suppressing it, and it will get on MSM’s radar. If it doesn’t have a huge number, people will openly question why it was delayed.

    BTW, the reason that practitioners like me aren’t raising alarums is because we don’t want this on Congress’ radar.

  110. Mikeinwaiting says:

    After viewing these charts I will open a bottle of homemade wine I have been saving. Deep forgetfulness guarantied.

  111. Mikeinwaiting says:

    Nom as you have surmised & I’m sure most would agree something is afoot & it smells real bad. They are getting out of Dodge in droves, no doubt.

  112. Al Gore says:



    “What will happen is means-testing. That is all but baked in at this point.”

    What I see is folks refusing to play ball. Gold and silver is the vote of no confidence. You can have the land if it stands for fraud.

  113. Al Gore says:



    Amen to that. Blatantly obvious. The fairy god mother is going to save the day even if you smack the truth on peoples face day after day.

  114. Confused In NJ says:

    Means Testing for Social Security would eliminate most Public Employee Pensioneers which could make it solvent.

  115. sas3 says:

    Nom, may be all the anti-muslin patriotic chicken-hawks have fled to Dubai to kneel before some sheiks.

  116. sas3 says:

    Confused #122… One thing that you said that I would completely support. But the unions and “small businesses GOP” will kill such a bill in the crib.

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