Pending home sales fall in the Northeast

From Forbes:

Pending Home Sales Don’t Move The Needle

The pending home sales index for the month of August released today by the National Association of Realtors beat analyst expectations, rising 4% to 82.3 from 78.9 in July. Home buying still haven’t caught up to last year, when it was 103, but the worst-hit markets are appearing to recover fastest.

Analysts are seeing faster than expected gains in the housing markets that took the biggest blows when the real estate bubble burst and slower recoveries in less-affected areas.

From MarketWatch:

Pending U.S. home sales up 4.3% in August

Sales of homes in the U.S. rose 4.3% in August, based on the number of contracts signed.

The National Association of Realtors said its pending home sales index rose to 82.3 from 78.9 in July, adding to evidence that suggests home sales will improve gradually over the next few months.

Pending sales reflect contracts signed between home buyers and sellers. The closing of a sale usually takes a few months.

Pending sales fell 2.9% in the Northeast, but rose 2.1% in the Midwest, 6.4% in the West and 6.7% in the Midwest, according to the association.

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216 Responses to Pending home sales fall in the Northeast

  1. grim says:

    From the WSJ:

    Housing Inventory Climbs Again In September

    ousing inventories, which typically dip as the summer ends, rose for the ninth straight month in September, indicating that sales remain weak as the downturn drags on.

    Listings–including single-family homes, condos and townhomes–in 26 major metro markets spiked 13.5% from a year ago, reports ZipRealty Inc., a real-estate brokerage firm based in Emeryville, Calif. When compared to a month earlier, September’s inventory rose 0.6%, data pulled from local multiple-listing services Oct. 1 shows.

    In addition to sluggish sales, the increase comes from lenders dumping foreclosed homes on the market, short sale offers and sellers who can no longer put off listing a home, says Leslie Tyler, ZipRealty’s vice president of marketing.

    More inventory is the last thing housing needs. Current sellers face a bleak picture: Despite record-low interest rates and falling prices, some home shoppers remain fearful of signing contracts as unemployment remains elevated. Those ready to buy may think that prices will fall further, providing little incentive to act quickly. Given tightened lending restrictions, others want to buy but cannot. Some sellers, meanwhile, can’t trim prices any further without selling for less than they owe. And the foreclosure crisis continues–and some banks have halted foreclosures, further gumming up the works.

  2. Confused In NJ says:


  3. Poltroon says:

    Reggie Middleton mentioned yesterday on Bloomberg that all the August numbers are super-inflated by investors doing double transactions (buy at wholesale, then quickly flip at retail). He produced some stats that show the under 275K segment- on a national basis- is completely dominated by these flip investors.

    According to Middleton, when you exclude investors, sales activity is now at an all-time low.

  4. Poltroon says:

    Bleak, obscure, lugubrious, gloomy. Looks like the advent of oblivion to me.

  5. Poltroon says:

    It’s all the fault of the Rothschilds.

  6. Poltroon says:

    Happy, happy, joy, joy…

    “The Massive Mortgage Mess as we affectionately call it seems to be getting new names with each passing day – the latest one is, quite appropriately, RoboSigning Scandal (funny how after the stock market, “robotic” technology will soon becoming equated with the biggest mortgage scam in history). During today’s Kudlow segment, CNBC’s Diana Ollick who is by and far the company’s best (and only) investigative reporter, confirms various so far unfounded rumors, that the government is planning to institute a 90 day foreclosure moratorium as it deals with the realization of just how big and pervasive the mortgage problem is, and even worse, will soon be. It is so bad that even a typically ebullient Larry Kudlow is forced to note that this is the “housing equivalent of the credit financial meltdown” and that “this is going to go on for ever.” The biggest issue that is now developing, as we noted last week, is the fact that title insurers (firms such as Fidelity National, First American, Stewart Info and Old Republic) are refusing to insure mortgages in foreclosure or otherwise, uncertain as to who actually owns the title. And for all those who believe this will merely keep prices artificially high, we have very bad news – the problem with the title insurers walking away on fears of lawsuits is that no lender will be willing to write a mortgage without title insurance, meaning that suddenly the up-front component of home purchases will either necessarily have to surge, or home prices will have to plunge by a like amount, as there is simply not enough equity (read money) to cover the resulting debt deficiency. Alas, this mess is just starting, and as people realize how bad it is, it very well may lead to a total collapse in the housing market.”

  7. Outofstater says:

    #7 And ya gotta love the folks in Kentucky – using RICO in a class action lawsuit against the banks.

  8. Xroads says:

    I’m surprised Greenspan doesn’t get more blame or are we done beating a dead horse

  9. Poltroon says:

    Why can’t we beat Greenspan until he’s dead?

  10. Confused In NJ says:

    10.Poltroon says:
    October 5, 2010 at 7:51 am
    Why can’t we beat Greenspan until he’s dead?

    The only way to kill him is a stake through the heart, followed by pure silver bullet through the head, followed by boiling in garlic.

  11. Shore Guy says:

    Whose brain did I put in him?

  12. Shore Guy says:

    This reminds me of what the rising RE inventories combined with the title issue my do to RE:

  13. Shore Guy says:

    No doubt the move from .1% to “between 0 and .1% is all that economy needs to mend.”

  14. Mr Wantanapolous says:

    “It’s all the fault of the Rothschilds.”

    Doom [6],

    Bergabe’s boss.

  15. grim says:

    14 – so are they turning American?

  16. All "H-Train" Hype says:

    Shiny = 1328.10/ounce.

    The gold shorts are getting kicked today. We may see $1500/ounce by January 1st.

  17. nwnj says:


    I suspect they would nationalize the title insurance industry, or provide government backed reinsurance if that scenario materializes. I’d be surprised if the net result of this debacle is anything other than a delay in bringing the tsunami of REO to market.

  18. Mr Wantanapolous says:

    Alas, this mess is just starting, and as people realize how bad it is, it very well may lead to a total collapse in the housing market.”

    Doom [7],

    “Legacy” assets, marked to par, are shot. How does your balance sheet look, fed? Does securitized debt on mortgages have real collateral behind them?

  19. Mr Wantanapolous says:

    “The gold shorts are getting kicked today. We may see $1500/ounce by January 1st.”


    Produce the note? How about deliver the underlying? The whole sytem, one humongous foundation of fraud.

  20. 30 year realtor says:

    North Jersey has yet to see the worst of this market yet. The seasonal effect of the upcoming holidays will be the bottom for this calendar year.

    As a long time broker I am seeing trends in the North Jersey area that are disturbing. For example, there was a time when an investor had no chance to out bid a potential owner occupant for a well priced REO in Bergen County. Today the offers appear to only be from investors. Another example is on market listings in suburban areas priced at or below recent sales of similar type that are not selling. Very similar to what happened in the Newark market in 2008 when the bottom fell out.

  21. What is the meaning of “full faith and credit” when no one has either?

  22. BC (21)-

    I have a feeling Jamie’s newly-opened gold vault is about as full as Ft. Knox.

  23. Al Gore says:

    Gold vigilantes on the move. The raids will continue on the LBMA every 10 to 12 days until the manipulators have been castrated.

    The real life soap opera gets better abd better.

    End the fed.

  24. realtor (22)-

    But, but…the investors were supposed to be confined to Vegas, Miami and Phoenix.

    Things are different here. Proximity to NYC, sea of cabbage, parents giving 600K down payments to kids…

  25. Mr Wantanapolous says:

    Lamar [24],

    Why would anyone, with a pea for a brain, store physical there? Akin to sleeping with the enemy.

  26. All I want for Christmas is a failure-to-deliver event.

  27. prtraders2000 says:

    I’m getting tired of listening to my parent’s generation who are either newly retired or about to retire looking for sympathy regarding their real estate taxes. How can they complain about paying for the education of the kids in town when they enjoyed exactly the same benefit 30 years ago? And I don’t want to hear how r/e taxes are forcing them to continue to work so they can stay in their 4/5 bedroom with only two people living in it. Gimme a break! 30 years ago it was only Dad working while now both spouses need to work to get into a decent neighborhood. And they started the ball rolling with the outsized salaries, pensions, and retirement payoffs for public workers. If there is pain to go around, this crowd better not be ducking out of line.

  28. Mr Wantanapolous says:


    Check your email.

  29. Mr Hyde says:


    Permit me to issue and control the money of the nation and I care not who makes its laws. — Mayer Amsched Rothchild,

    Ever wish you had taken the blue pill?

  30. Mr Hyde says:


    the only long term solution is to nuke all private central banks (i.e virtually all of them), and int he case of the USA return the creation and management of currency to the treasury.

  31. Xroads says:


    This generation has been the majority of the voting block. They helped vote in the pols who ran the state and local towns into the ground

  32. Xroads says:

    GSE’s FHA are writing %90 of mortgages because banks don’t want the risk and now title insurance co.’s are backing away but if you ask your realtor they’ll tell you it’s a good time to buy better hurry before you get priced out.

  33. Mr Hyde says:

    Re The title V note issue.

    Guess what, from all accounts it appears that a large % of the existing notes have been functionally separated from the titles to the associated properties. Once people start to realize this good luck selling any property if you note was ever collateralize. The banks have lost all right to foreclose on act on the property as their claim was extinguished when the sold the MBS. It would appear that the trust that holds the MBS would have standing to pursue the homeowner, but only as an unsecured debt. The other option is if the trust that holds the MBS sued the banks for fraud and forced them to buy back the MBS at face value, the banks would then have standing to pursue the homeowner on the basis of an unsecured debt. Either way the banks get nuked.

    The government may be forced to step in and issue mandates given how mangled the title chains have become and the degree of fraud involving in producing “lost” notes.

  34. NJGator says:

    Thanks all for your great suggestions yesterday. And apologies for not keeping up regularly. I have limited internet access in my new role as house serf!

  35. Mr Hyde says:

    Al Gore,

    From last night….. Since your mortgage appears to be held by MERS, it highly likely that the note is now an unsecured debt held by some MBS trust and you hold the actual title. Of course you would want to consult an attorney on the matter.

  36. #29 – I’ll second (or third) this. The baby boomer funding issues, whether it’s retirement accounts, social sec, et al. has been an issue for almost as long as I can remember and no one has done a thing about it.
    Thompson route about it as a campaign issue for McGovern in Fear and Loathing on the Campaign Trail `72. No sympathies, enjoy your Alpo.

  37. Mr Hyde says:

    The Texas Attorney General’s office called for a halt on all foreclosures today amid widespread scrutiny over the way foreclosures are processed nationwide.

    Notices to suspend foreclosures were sent to 27 loan servicers doing business in Texas, including Bank of America and JPMorgan Chase & Co. The office would not release the list of companies that received notices.

    The state office also called for a halt on the sales of properties previously foreclosed upon and all evictions of people living in previously foreclosed upon properties.

  38. Mr Hyde says:

    Tosh, Prtrader 29

    Someone needs to explain the exponential function to the boomers. perhaps show them a little demo of what happens to bacteria in a petri dish. They chose a suicidal path and now complain about their impending doom.

  39. All "H-Train" Hype says:

    I almost forgot……

    It’s POMO Day, look at the markets go! Imagine what we will get with 100 billion a month starting with QE2 starting in November!

  40. Mr Hyde says:


    And all you hear form them is “But we were promised!!!”.

  41. #42 – Hyde – I will admit to feeling bad for the ones who tried to do the right thing; saved, lived within their means, tried to bring up the issues, only to be drown out by the bloated chorus of “Me, me me, now, now, now”. Unfortunately that chorus raised a generation just like themselves.

  42. Mr Hyde says:

    From the Texas article

    “This could be opening up a real can of worms if they’re actually talking about properties already sold,” Roddy said. “Title has been passed back to the lender or a third party has purchased it at the foreclosure auction. Someone else could be living in the house.”

    Now this is the real can of worms!!!! How many banks have sold foreclosures that they never had legal title to? Any such sale would be fraudulent and have to be unwound if we actually respected the rule of law.

  43. If we ever throw another civil war, it should be declared on the boomer generation. Without a doubt, they are the worst and most destructive generation this nation has ever produced.

    Probably inevitable that they would come after arguably the greates generation. The experience of world war set the stage for all those parents wanting to spare their children the same experience.

  44. hyde (44)-

    Much more likely would be a claim on the title insurance…another fine can of worms.

  45. Mr Hyde says:

    Another tidbit fromt he Texas article

    In its letters to JPMorgan Chase and Bank of America, the Attorney General’s Office outlines steps the banks must take, including identifying employees or agents who participated in “robosigning.”

    I wonder if a few people are getting a little nervous about now?

  46. freedy says:

    wait till the short sellers wake up and contact lawyers

  47. Now, think about all the second lienholders whose legitimate interests have been foreclosed upon by first lienholders who committed fraud in the process.

    Every scenario you can imagine leads to doomsday.

  48. Mr Hyde says:

    So what is the penalty for 18,000 counts of fraud/perjury per month for a few years?

  49. Of course, many second lienholders dumped their poop into even worse MBS sausage grinders.

  50. Mr Hyde says:


    If existing law is upheld on 1/1oth of this virtually all major title insurers are bankrupt.

  51. hyde (50)-

    435 House seats and 100 Senate seats, plus the executive branch and probably 70% of all courts in the US.

  52. hyde (52)-

    I think the title insurers could push it back onto the lenders and servicers, as they may not have to perform in the case of fraudulent activity. However, the legal battle would (will) be legendary, long and expensive.

  53. What about the captive title insurers of the lenders who committed massive frauds? Do they go after themselves? Is this why bank-affiliated/owned title companies have been getting spun off?

  54. Mr Hyde says:

    Poltroon 54,

    Either way the revelation of the scale of the fraud essentially calls into question the legitimacy of virtually every title that has been transacted in the last 5 – 10 years. Many will never be challenged, but that doesn’t mean that there isnt a critical defect in he title chain at some point in the last 5 – 10 years due to fraudulent activity.

    How about this for a fun little game….. Find a home you like and research the title chain. If it has been corrupted, then buy the home using as much leverage as possible and as soon as you finish moving in stop paying the note ( assuming you made at least 1 payment). Put the payments in escrow as a CYA and hire an attorney to challenge the banks. Inform the previous seller of the issue and suggest they sue the bank as well. Live in the house for free for a year or two as the legal battle rages and then offer to settle with the bank for a nice chunk of change.

  55. Anon E. Moose says:

    Hyde [52];

    Consider also that many title insurers hit the cash register a second time by selling a policy that isured the home(l’)owner as well at the note holder (mandatory title ins. policies only insure the noteholder).

    Somehow I don’t think this is what ‘maestro’ Alan had in mind when he was discussing the massive underpricing of risk.

  56. chicagofinance says:

    It appears that my uncle is displaying his artwork here during October. The website has not been updated. Does anyone know anything about this place?

  57. Mr Hyde says:


    even more fun!!!

    Landesbank Baden-Wuerttemberg, a German state-owned bank, is suing Goldman Sachs over a $37 million loss on its investment in its share (a tranche) of a CDO called Davis Square VI. TCW, the manager for all of Goldman Sach’s Davis Square deals, is also being sued.
    “Goldman knew at the highest levels of its organization that its representations to LBBW Luxemburg that the notes merited triple-A ratings and were high grade were blatantly false,” the Stuttgart-based bank said. “Goldman committed fraud and, or, was negligent in marketing and selling the notes to LBBW Luxemburg.”

    And guess what is behind those CDP’s??? RE that was likely fraudulently transferred.

    /Runs to get more popcorn and another beer!!!!

  58. A.West says:

    9, 10 on Greenspan,

    I have no fondness for Greenspan, having held on to the helm of an institution that he knew to be corrupt, and which should never have existed. He, knowing the importance of gold, proceeded to devalue the dollar against it. He, who should have known the moral hazard issues of government guarantees for depositors, and central banking, said nothing against it. He seemed to not realize that his institution had turned every big bank into a Fannie/Freddie-like quasi-government institution. Then he blamed his and his institution’s mistakes on too much trust in free-markets, to cap off his total intellectual corruption.

    But on the specifics of the housing bubble, he was far from the worst in government. Consider this from Forbes in 2005:

    Greenspan Steps Up Warning On Fannie, Freddie
    Virginia Citrano 09.15.05, 4:29 PM ET

    New York – Cassandra calling or clarion call? Federal Reserve Chairman Alan Greenspan is once again warning that the multibillion-dollar holdings of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac must be cut, because their huge debt could imperil the U.S. financial system.

    The new warning comes in a recent letter to a member of the U.S. Senate Banking Committee. But Greenspan has repeatedly called on U.S. Congress to lower the roof on the two home mortgage companies. “Excessive caution in reducing their portfolios could prove to be destabilizing to our financial system as a whole and in the end, could seriously diminish the availability of home mortgage funds,” Greenspan wrote, according to The Associated Press.

  59. federal bureau of incestigation says:

    Mr Poltroon:

    Please contact the nearest field office and provide the following information:
    1: Your full name, home address and your photo
    2: List of crimes and anti-government actions you have carried out in the last 10 years, and
    3: The exact location, date and time of crimes and anti-government actions you plan to carry out in the future (preferably during Government working hours 9.30am-3.30pm)

    Thank You.
    The Government


    As someone who has had lots of interactions with DHS, and somewhat less with DOJ/FBI, you may find it in your interest not to calll for or suggest the attack/kiling of federal officials

  60. Mr Wantanapolous says:

    Imagine, all this fraud, with a currency backed by faith. What a scam.

  61. Mikeinwaiting says:

    TS is really going to HTF now. On top of tighter lending standards , about 20% real unemployment with food stamp participation through the roof & no real catalyst for any job creation. Now no one has clear title & purchases are in danger of a claw back by past owners. The nail in the coffin as far as I am concerned, was looking at foreclosure at 119k now offer 50 k take it or leave it. If not rent “F”em, they’ll be a lot more where that came from.

  62. Mr Hyde says:

    Doom, or any other RE guru,

    Home does title insurance work if there is a defect found in the title after the insurance has been issued? Assuming the homeowner had a title insurance policy covering them how would it work in a situation where they had bought a foreclosure that a bank fraudulently sold them even though it didn’t have legitimate title due to the current title/note shenanigans? How would it protect them assuming the previous homeowner was involved as well, seeking the return of the property?

  63. Xroads says:

    So as this becomes mainstream and more and more stop paying their mortgage banks can’t foreclose will inventory reduced?

  64. Against The Grain says:

    Anyone thinking of defending a foreclosure or playing games with a lender on a standing issue is well advised to consult with an attorney and review this Appellate Division opinion just released today:

    One of the takeaways from this case is that if you wait more than 5 months after the foreclosure sale to challenge standing, you’re out of luck.

  65. Mr Hyde says:


    You clearly want an attorney involved if you are going to play chicken with the banks.

    From reading the decision I have to wonder, if the defendant had done additional research into how the bank “acquired” the title, would they have found title chain problems that could preclude the banks from legally holding that title?

    /Not an attorney, spouting off.

  66. Mikeinwaiting says:

    Anyone know if you can request proof of title/ ownership of loan that you are current on. If so a lawyer that can handle it/experienced in such matters. The plan is tell them to pound salt if they can’t produce , debt gone.

  67. Against The Grain says:

    #69, Yes, I think a defense based on a standing issue may still be viable in NJ, but from this case it appears that it must be raised during the foreclosure proceeding or it will probably be waived.

  68. Mr Hyde says:

    Mike 70,

    I know someone currently playing that game with BofA. No results yet that i am aware of. They stopped paying the mortgage and have been placing it in escrow. They are using an attorney as well. The research they have contracted out for has apparently shown that the note is held by an MBS trust and not by BofA. Apparently BofA isnt the proper servicer per the trust paper work.

  69. Xroads says:


    I thought that’s what a title search was

  70. Mikeinwaiting says:

    Hyde 70 this is a family members loan but I help with monthly paper work (elderly). It has been bounced around from bunch of dif banks now Chase has it , I bet they have sh*t to back it up.

  71. I thought that’s what a title search was

    Hmmm, a title search might only turn up who is making a claim to lien positions, not who is holding the actual note in question (if anyone).
    Should really consult with someone from a title company…

  72. Mikeinwaiting says:

    X 73 unless bank says they have right/title & really doesn’t. I want unbroken chain of assignment from original lender to them with signatures & documentation if not, by by debt.

  73. Xroads says:

    So if debt is wiped out by this process then some can claim that it was the best time to buy!

  74. Mikeinwaiting says:

    X 77 This may be true.

  75. Mr Hyde says:

    X, Mike

    My understanding is that it doesnt wipe out the debt, it only changes the debt to an unsecured debt held by the MBS trust or similar. At that poit its no different then a credit card debt

  76. Anon E. Moose says:

    Grain [67];

    regardless of the outcome of that case, its ample evidence taht the system is broken. The deadbeat filed for BK in late 2005, probably stopped paying his mortgage well before that. Here he 5 years later in 2010 on an appeal that stayed his ultimate and subsequent eviction.

    Five years mortgage-free? He won that dispute.

  77. Xroads says:

    So it wasn’t the best time to buy? Cmon it’s always a good time to buy right?

  78. Mr Hyde says:

    X, Mike

    I have also read that MBS trusts are not allowed to hold unsecured debts based on the manner in which they were formed, so if people start forcing the note issues a lot of these trusts could blow up. Trusts and high finance are out of my league, just what i have read elsewhere.

  79. scribe says:

    the theme today on Bloomberg radio is “currency wars” …given the moves by Japan, Brazil, S Korea, etc.

  80. Mike says:

    No. 22 30 Year Realtor You seem more like a realistic realtor maybe because your old school but you can’t say those things to your clients or the agency will fire you. I’d like to sign up with you.

  81. Shore Guy says:

    Here is a concept:

    Bank presidents, Board Chairs, Division VPs, and other managers who advocated frud, tolerated fraud, or failed to implement policies, practices, or systems to prevent fraud — say it with me, now — go to jail.

    When 7- and 8-figure guys starttgoing to jail, and then losing all their ill-gotten gains, we will see the system get cleaned up. Until then, there is no incentive; they gamble with our money, we take the losses and they take a huge chunk of any gain.

  82. Shore Guy says:

    “the ones who tried to do the right thing; saved, lived within their means, tried to bring up the issues, only to be drown out by the bloated chorus of “Me, me me, now, now, now”.

    This is Mrs Shore and me. We also reared Little Shore to save, be polite, contribute to society, not covet what others have, yadda, yadda. What fricking patseys we are.

  83. Orion says:

    Revelations –

    Thanks for the two links you posted for tax appeals, etc.

  84. scribe says:


    does “house serf” mean you’re at home now?

  85. Shore Guy says:


    Did Stu provide a uniform for that?


    If not, wtf is the matter with you?

  86. BC (61)-

    Somehow, I get the feeling that the guy who went up against Morales may end up as some alligator’s dinner pretty soon.

  87. Al Gore says:


    37. All I have is a written deed that is also on file with the county from the original builder of the house to myself. Is that considered the title? I know houses and car titles are 2 different animals but what are the implications here? I know this needs to shake out and may be premature to speculate.

  88. Al Gore says:

    JP Morgan is up to its neck in litigation. Between the class action law suit on its manipulation of silver to the MERS fiasco. Thats a lot of balls to juggle.

  89. Outofstater says:

    #86 Same here. Sometimes I wonder what I was thinking when we delayed buying things til we paid off the mortgage. We could have racked up credit card debt, defaulted on the debt and the mortgage and still would have been sort of okay, BUT, I wouldn’t have felt right doing that and neither would you. So, we did the right thing, even though sometimes I wonder if I’m a chump.

  90. Mike says:

    Market is close to 11000 everything is back to normal panic home buying to start

  91. joyce says:

    (32) – Congress is supposed to have that power, not the treasury

    To borrow money on the credit of the United States;

    To coin Money, regulate the Value thereof, and of foreign Coin, and fix the Standard of Weights and Measures;

  92. Mr Hyde says:


    You need to speak to an experience RE attorney to really answer any of these questions. I am not an attorney and can only make lay guesses as to the implications.

    If your mortgage was handled through MERS like a number of others, then it may be that the title was separated from the note due to how the note was transferred to the associated trust. This is all speculation of course, so follow up with a qualified attorney if you want anything more then lay speculation.

  93. Barbara says:

    I’ve gone from someone who saves and pays because its the right thing to do to someone who saves and pays because I’m eccentric and quirky. Yep.

  94. Al Gore says:

    Thanks Hyde.

    Looks like the BOJ is about to tap out. The Japs never give up. They will fight to the last Yen.

  95. Barbara says:

    Ok, been reading through all this stuff regarding lack of promissory notes, stopping foreclosures, suing banks etc. I still can’t figure out HOW this DOES NOT eat up supply and support the current high asking prices out there. Someone enlighten me please.

  96. J. says:

    #38: It depends on how old you are, because someone TRIED to do something about it, by increasing the FICA in 1986 in anticipation of boomer retirement some 25 years hence. The problem is that Ronnie Reagan and George H.W. Bush took the money from the trust fund to pay for tax cuts, and now the Republicans are saying “Sorry, we took the money and we have no intention of taking it back.” The SS trust fund is now full of IOUs that the government has no interest in paying.

    However, if you thinkthat subjecting your retirement money to the tender hands of Wall St. goniffs is going to be any kind of alternative, then you are completely delusional.

  97. NJGator says:

    Scribe 88 – I’ve always been at home. But Stu has finally returned from the active handicapped accessible adult community in which he took up temporary residence.

  98. DL says:

    There is absolutely no way out of this. We are fcuked on a broom stick of cosmic proportions. Only way to fix government is to starve it to death. I would rather live in a cave than buy in this market and what’s about to happen to it.

  99. Mr Hyde says:


    took the money from the trust fund

    LOL! Exactly what trust fund are you referring to? Every single penny of FICA has been spent the moment it was collect for as long as SS has been around. The fabled trust fund is nothing but a bunch of IOU’s that the government will have to borrow money to fulfill when they get called. Its a ponzi scheme on the greatest of scales and legally it has been ruled to be a welfare program. Its not “YOUR” money. Its tax money that the government may spend as it see’s fit. You can stomp your feet and complain about that all day long but it doesnt change the fact that that there is no lockbox full of money or trust fund with your and every other FICA contributors name on it..

  100. Mr Hyde says:


    There is a way out, but i cant think of a particular instance in history that the exit has been used. Think of it in terms of Aron Ralston, the guy who cut off his own arm in order to survive. We will all die of gangrene before we will suffer the pain of cutting off the diseased rotting limb.

  101. Poltroon says:

    DL (102)-

    Starving the gubmint isn’t enough. We also have to execute pretty much anyone who has been part of the gubmint, so there will be no collective memory or desire to create such a monster ever again.

  102. Al Gore says:



    Its not the American peoples money. Its Ben Bernankes and he will do with it as he sees fit. There is a concellation prize America. You get the debt.

  103. Poltroon says:

    The executions should begin with bureaucrats, clerks and civil servants.

  104. Nicholas says:

    So, we did the right thing, even though sometimes I wonder if I’m a chump.

    I understand that some crazy things have happened in the last few years due to the great recession and the housing crash but there is no need to question your morals. You did the right thing and that should be a reward all its own. I think that all too often we do the “keeping up with the Jones” thing too much and it becomes a never ending contest.

    If loading up on debt and defaulting is a contest to be won then I’m not interested in playing that game. If I was presented with the same situation of the bubble years over again, I would make the same choiced that I have already made. Safe investments for me and my family, prudent saving, prudent spending. If you gain at all from an action like that then the best result that you could hope for is still the title of “loser”.

    I’m not saying that banks are not evil and out to turn your pockets inside out. I’m not saying that there was a whole system that was designed to suck out the dollars from your pockets when you were not looking. I’m not saying that the government wasn’t complicit in the acts by looking the other way. Honestly, I cannot recall a time when buisnesses, corporations, governments were not trying to take a slice of my pie.

    What I am trying to say is that if you were aware of the negatives as you entered these agreements, gaming them through default to try and profit isn’t the way to go. Don’t be ashamed of being a good, reliable, trustworthy person. I wouldn’t have it any other way for myself and my family.

  105. Shore Guy says:

    RR and GHWB did not spend anything — congress did; a congress mostly dominated by Democrats since the Depression.

  106. Poltroon says:

    It is not enough that crooked people in the gubmint and corrupt financial industry types be starved of future ill-gotten gains or slapped on the wrists. What they did (and are still doing) is no less than a full-on bank robbery, coupled with an attempt to sell every private citizen in the US into slavery.

    They should be met with disproportionate force, hunted down, tried, then executed.

  107. Shore Guy says:

    Unless we eliminate our need to purchase energy from overseas and unless we put our budget in the black, via spending cuts, nothing else matters and China will eat our economic lunch. And, let us never forget, our military power is only possible because of our economic might; without sound fiscal policies, our military will go the way of Great Britian’s — which was the world’s mightiest for longer than we have been an independent nation.

  108. Mr Wantanapolous says:

    “I think that all too often we do the “keeping up with the Jones” thing too much and it becomes a never ending contest.”


    No need to attempt to keep up with the Jones anymore. They are going in reverse, on the path to ruins.

  109. Confused In NJ says:

    I guess the market is rising on this outlook:

    Economy, jobs expected to remain weak through 2014

    A panel of economists on Tuesday predicted several more years of pain for the United States, agreeing unemployment will remain high far longer than 2014, when White House and congressional economists have predicted a jobs improvement.

    The panel — including Nobel Prize winner Paul Krugman, Harvard’s Martin Feldstein and Goldman Sachs chief economist Jan Hatzius — agreed that policymakers have failed to adequately stimulate the economy, and that more needs to be done.

    “It’s going to take many years before you get back to anything approaching full unemployment, and 2014 is probably too early,” said Hatzius, speaking at a conference held at the Newseum in Washington. The conference was sponsored by the left-leaning think tank and advocacy group Demos.

    Some on the panel predicted unemployment will tick upward before it heads lower. And Feldstein predicted that housing prices could fall even further, especially as more underwater homeowners give the banks the keys to their homes, increasing the supply of available ones.

    “When that happens, it hurts consumer confidence and it makes it much harder for people to move where the jobs are,” Feldstein said. “Then, I think (consumers) have to stay and suffer it out, and can’t move where they have a better chance of getting a job.”

    They talked about how the sputtering U.S. recovery compared with the long recession that Japan suffered through in the 1990s.

    “In fact, we’re not doing what the Japanese did, we’re doing it worse,” Krugman said, pointing out that the United States has a larger trade gap, a bigger surge in unemployment and is more quickly facing an exhaustion of the political will to act. “In the long run, we’re going to look at Japan’s lost decade as a success story compared to what we’re going through.”

    The economists also suggested that the Federal Reserve Board could do more by buying government debt or other investments. The Federal Open Market Committee meets on Nov. 3 to discuss potential actions that could help the economy.

    But the panel predicted the Fed won’t have the will to take “risks” and buy enough Treasurys to make much of an impact on the economy.

    “The numbers needed to really move the needle a lot are very, very large, and there will be a natural bias toward caution,” predicted Hatzius.

    The group also debated tax policy as a means of fiscal stimulus. Feldstein talked about the importance for Congress to extend tax cuts before the end of the year, when 2001 and 2003 era tax cuts are slated to expire.

    “This is not the time for a tax increase,” said Feldstein, who said that doing nothing to extend tax cuts “seems like a disaster scenario.”

    Candle always burns brightest, before it goes out!

  110. Mr Hyde says:


    Don’t fret, AT the rate the Feds are going, they will have to run QE operations just to service the existing debt in 1 – 2 years. If we get to that point the game is over and you have a failed government and the debris of an imploded economy. If they stop spending in the interum, the economy implodes but we may avoid a failed government.

  111. Shore Guy says:

    There are MANY beneficial things that government does. That said, we can no longer pretend that we can afford to pay for them all. We are not the manufacturing jaugernaut that we once were and the revenues are not there. As such. it is time to eliminate all non-essential government functions.

    Will people be hurt? Yes. Will it reduce the quality of life for some/many? Yes.

    That said, if we do not do this NOW, the pain will be far worse.

    Safety, security, necessaary economic infrastructure, sure, fund these. The rest? How can we go spending over twice what we bring in and pretend to be a viable economy?

  112. sas3 says:

    “unless we put our budget in the black, via spending cuts…”

    Should be coupled with reducing subsidies when we are still in the red — be it farm subsidies, favors to the corporates [tax breaks, tax loopholes], and tax subsidies for high income earners.


  113. Anon E. Moose says:

    Barbara [99];

    Exactly what I said the instant I heard about the latest foreclosure moritoria, uninsurable title, etc. Foreclosed properties will/have become a radioactive litter box where only all-cash players who can afford to lose it all can afford to gamble. Everyone else will be stuck paying 2005 prices.

  114. Shore Guy says:


    I agree. Let’s end sll subsidies, eliminate all tax deductions, and implement a flat tax on all income — regardless of whether it is wage income, dividands, cap gains, whatever.

    Buffet should not pay a lower rate than I do and I should not pay a higher rate than my kids do.

  115. Poltroon says:


    Alert: Sastry dry-humping unicorns again.

  116. Shore Guy says:

    sll= all, at least this afternoon it does

  117. Comrade Nom Deplume aux maison says:

    chi fi

    You have reply mail

  118. Shore Guy says:

    It is time to stop spending on things that are “nice” but not necessary.

  119. Poltroon says:

    Why treat capital well, when we can let our gubmint decide who is “rich”, who is not and dispossess those people as they see fit?

    No gubmint has ever printed or taxed its way to prosperity. Ours won’t be the first.

    I will, however, volunteer my time to help move along executions of gubmint personnel.

  120. Mr Hyde says:

    Barb, Moose

    The title/note issue isnt just for foreclosures. It exists in about 60% of recent mortgages. Any mortgage that was handled through MERS is suspect at this time.

    In theory if the MERS issue is as bad as some claim, and you go to by a non-foreclosed home, some other entity could came after you later saying that you paid the wrong bank for the house and the house is theirs, evidenced by an original note with wet signature. Another possibility is that the title has become so disconnected from the associated chain of notes that no clear chain of custody of the title can be established and as a result the purchase of a non-foreclosure home could pose almost as much liability as a foreclose done.

    I see the opposite of your scenario occurring. Title custody becomes so questionable in housing in general that people will only buy at a substantial discount and home loans will be very hard to come by due to the title risk.

    In either case, the government is likely to step in and attempt some legislative remedy in my opinion. The interesting question is would states allow the FEDS to do this as it walks all over the historical practice of individual state title regulations. It would seem to be a huge reversal of certain well establish states rights territory. Perhaps the Feds use a carrot/stick int he form of bailout money for the state sif the accept the Federal solution to title issues.

  121. Shore Guy says:


    If we had legislatures qnd executives populated by people who had terminal illnesses and no prospects of a cure, and we told them to create a budget that provided essential services for their loved ones and the rest of society, they could do it in short order.

    What has us in this bind is a lack of political will — largely created by the aquest to stay in power. First thing on the chopping block should be pensions for elected officials.

  122. Mr Hyde says:

    Shore 122

    It is time to stop spending on things that are “nice” but not necessary.

    That sounds good, but who is going to decide what is “nice” and what is “necessary”. No matter who chooses many groups will be hurt by said decisions and all you will hear is how group X is going cold and hungry. It needs to be done, but it is a lose, lose proposition for all involved in the short term.

  123. Poltroon says:

    Prices will fall, as the first thing lenders will do in a dicey market for insuring title will be to insist upon large downpayments. As virtually no US droids have more than a couple of nickels to rub together, prices will have to fall in order to accomodate the 15-16 private citizens left who are still qualified to buy, given the new term environment.

    Of course, this whole fiasco could be another way for FHA to tamp more sewage into their septic at an even more dizzying rate.

  124. Shore Guy says:


    Right now the nation reminds me of a 20-something child of someone who was jet-set rich and suddenly lost everything and who has a feeling of being entitled to continue living the lifestyle of the rich and famous, despite the loss of economic strength that allowed the family to live that way before.

  125. Poltroon says:

    nice = civil society

    necessary = mass executions of gubmint workers

  126. Poltroon says:

    shore (128)-

    That kid better start washing dishes. The day of reckoning draws near.

  127. Mr Wantanapolous says:

    Hyde [114],

    QE is required to open the doors and turn on the lights.

    Between a comatose economy, a dead job market, zombie banks, bankrupt states, non existent pension plans, etc.., it will be QE till infinity. The great race has begun in earnest. The first one to implode is the winner.

  128. Shore Guy says:


    You are correct. The way of deciding is zero-based budgeting. Here is our pot, leets reconstruct government with just the money we have. When the money runs out, so do the services.

    It is hard, and it is cold, and it will bring pain and suffering. That said, it will bring less pain, suffering, and hardness than if we continue on our current course.

  129. DL says:

    The fundamental problem in every sector of the US today is that there is no longer any adherence to the social contract (pardon me for getting all Rousseau on you here.) The accepted morality of the age is that whatever you can get away with of ok. I no longer trust my elected officials, my financial agents, my media filters, my service providers, my cable company, or my friends. “Be courtious, be polite, and have plan to kill everyone you meet” will soon be the zeitgeist. And pardon me while I go drink a himbeergeist.

  130. Mr Hyde says:

    DL 133

    Be polite. Be professional. But have a plan to kill everyone you meet.

    You are learning fast. You should do fine.

  131. Shore Guy says:


    We also enable many people in society to get away with that attitude. We support people who do not take advantage of the free education we provide. Then we support people who do not work or otherwise contribute to the betterment of society. We spend to support the children of people who have children they cnnot aafford, often at ages when they should be in school, and then do it again and again as thwy thumb their noses at those of us paying the bills.

    Enough already.

  132. Shore Guy says:

    Mrs. Shore was telling me about a 12 year old -soon-to-be-a-mother, that she knows about. The soon-to-be-a grandmother sees nothing wrong with her daughter’s sitution –” I did just fine and had her when I was 13.” This chick is going to be a freaking grandmother at 25!

    If this is the kind of world you want, fine. Far be it from me from stopping you; however, don’t expect society to pay for your decisions.

  133. All "H-Train" Hype says:

    Between a comatose economy, a dead job market, zombie banks, bankrupt states, non existent pension plans, etc.., it will be QE till infinity. The great race has begun in earnest. The first one to implode is the winner.

    Mr Wantanapolous, that is the post of the day….That is all you need to know….People should be scared to death the way the markets are acting now. It is really about to get out of hand in a big, big way….

  134. Al Gore says:



    The biggest event in world monetary history.

    The biggest bull market in the history of the world.

  135. Libtard says:

    Shore Guy (86): says “This is Mrs Shore and me. We also reared Little Shore to save, be polite, contribute to society, not covet what others have, yadda, yadda. What fricking patseys we are.”


  136. Al Gore says:

    Holy sh_t silver is closing in on 23. Has JP Morgan capitulated?

  137. Libtard says:

    Is the market really going up or is the dollar just worth less and less. The implications of the latter are scary. If you are not invested in the market, you are doubly screwed. If you are in the market, you make a scary trade which increases risk to avoid deflation. If AU was dropping, I would feel differently. It is not and the 2-year is at a record low and the 10-year is close.

  138. sas3 says:

    Shore #125

    “If we had legislatures qnd executives populated by people who had terminal illnesses…”

    We are living in times when many 80+year olds ill go through 100’s of k’s of painful therapies just to prolong their life by a couple of few months. I wouldn’t put them in the category of “wise and selfless” yet.

    I support your general notion of no deductions, but with a reasonable cutoff at the bottom [2x or 3x poverty rate], and then a simple flat-ter progressive tax. If you make more, you pay more — fair, and avoids the Buffet paying less than his secretaries scenarios.

    Of course, in practice, the idea of no deductions runs into hurdles. Would business-related expenses be deductible? Capital losses?

  139. Anon E. Moose says:

    Hyde [124];

    You’re reinventing the wheel. The situation you describe is precisely why mortgages and leins are recorded by the government. Anyone with a claim against a piece of land (ownership or lien) can record that claim to put others on notice. Conversely, any buyer is considered to have constructive notice of any recorded claims (the origin of ‘due-diligence’ is going to the county clerks’ office and pulling an abstract of title, and checking each book and page). That ‘other entity’ you are concerned about can be said to have slept on their rights by not timely recording their interest in the property.

    I always wanted to play law professor.
    Hypothetical: Z owns Blackacre [land] in fee simple absolute [free and clear]. Z sells to Y, who grants a security interest [mortgage] to B(ank) to secure a purchase money note. B transfers the note and the security interest to CDO T(rust), who between them don’t record the transfer. B continues to service the note for a fee paid by T, and is designated by T with the power to foreclose on the security interest in case of default on the note. This is all unbeknownst to X. Y sells to X, and B purports to release the security interest. B fails to pay T from proceeds of the sale. Can T recover the property from X?

    No chance. X is a bona fide purchaser paying valuable consideration without knowledge that T had any interest in the property – not even a constructive notice. X would have had constructive notice if the transfer to T was recorded. T can sue B for the money, but cannot recover the land from X. There are other defenses X has, for example B had the implied authority to act for T in granting the release. This is just off the top of my head 5 years post BarBri and 9 years post 1L-property class.

  140. DL (133)-

    The only contract left in the US is the one the gubmint has taken out on us.

    “The fundamental problem in every sector of the US today is that there is no longer any adherence to the social contract…”

  141. Ben says:

    Still wondering where all those gold bashers from 5 months ago went.

  142. And can we round up the illegals and send them back while we’re at it?

  143. Outofstater says:

    #108 Nicholas – Thank you.

  144. Mr Wantanapolous says:

    “Has JP Morgan capitulated?”


    No. The rules of the game will be changed before this occurs.

  145. Mr Wantanapolous says:

    Lib [141],

    Strictly a dollar trade.

  146. BC (148)-

    The Gold Confisc@tion Act will be reinstated before the bullion banksters would be anywhere near a capitulation point.

    I would bet 10,000 AUM on this happening.

  147. Anon E. Moose says:

    Con’t [143];

    My point is, follow the money and you can walk back around the MERS ‘problem’ to the extent it even is one. In my hypo above, you can even immunize (by legislation, if necessary) Y against a suit by T on the note, which they otherwise would be open to.

    Most of all the market needs certainty (Coase Theorem – in thumbnail – absent transaction costs, the rules of liabilty [extenalities] or inital distribution of resources will not affect the outcome). Foreclosure should take a month, not years. The fact that it doesn’t just one example of a ‘transaction cost’ that interferes with the best allocation of resources.

  148. The same gubmint that can ignore rule of law to screw bondholders and give a car company to a union can create laws to moot the whole MERS/fraudulent conveyance issue.

    We should never forget that our country belongs to banks.

  149. Mr Wantanapolous says:

    Ben [145],

    5 months? More like 5 years, from the beginning of this site. I was told it was a bubble back in 2005, at 500.

  150. Mr Wantanapolous says:

    Lamar [150],

    I agree.

  151. They want to come for my physical, they better pack a lunch.

  152. Outofstater says:

    #136 The pregnant girl is 12??? How is that not statutory rape?

  153. Mr Hyde says:


    perhaps so. I am out of my league in the law arena aspect of all of this.

  154. Mr Hyde says:


    You would have to charge the 12yr old girl with rape as well if her partner was underage. You end up with some twisted circular logic assuming it was an underage consensual encounter. The idea of charging underage partners in a consensual relationship with rape is ludicrous.

  155. stater (156)-

    In the welfare state of NJ, teen motherhood is encouraged and celebrated. It also pays pretty well.

  156. Essex says:


  157. You want to have a kid at that age, you get allowed one. Then, you get sterilized.

    That would fix that little red wagon quick.

  158. Mr Hyde says:

    SAS3 142

    Ok, so well tell everyone who fills the seats for that particular session that they will all be executed 180 days hence. Death by electrocution if the budget is not complete. if the budget has been completed the method used is your choice.

  159. Essex says:

    133. Isn’t that always the way things have been. At least among the corporate set?

  160. Essex says:

    Kill=bury…euphemism for “shoot”…end….etc.

  161. Outofstater says:

    158, 159 I guess I have trouble getting my mind around the concept of a 12 year old girl who is voluntarily sexually active.

  162. Essex says:

    165. “latch key” kid perhaps.

  163. Mr Hyde says:


    My wife used to work with the populations that tend to have babies at 12yrs old, she worked in newark. sexual activity at that age was common in the groups she worked with and pregnancy was actively sought by some.

  164. Mr Wantanapolous says:

    Can’t blame the BOJ. Over the past 20 years all QE efforts and Yen intervention has been an astonishing success. If the formula works, no need to revamp.

  165. Mr Hyde says:


    My wife asked one of the girls she worked with why she would intentionally get pregnant at age 13. The response was, to paraphrase, “then someone will love me”.

  166. Al Gore says:

    From Sinclair re: MERS

    “The RICO (organized crime) statute in a civil suit is usually used to force a settlement. If the banks lose under RICO they sacrifice ALL their assets.

    The key to RICO in a civil suit is to prove a PATTERN. Listen to the video posted today and the pattern screams at you.

    The only logical settlement here is to void the foreclosure. Keep in mind this is a class action. It could sign up 100,000 complaints if that is desired by the attorneys.

    This suit, if successful, will be repeated all over the US.

    The Deutsch Bank suit occurred in a vacuum without the PR this is going to get in publications like the New York Post and Rolling Stone.

    Each time that happens an item of collateral on the securitized debt publicly dies. That is why this is dynamite that people will realize very soon. This is one reason gold is up hard today.

    The guys that made securitized debt are buying gold by the ton because they know what it means in the form it has surfaced yesterday.”

  167. Ben says:

    “5 months? More like 5 years, from the beginning of this site. I was told it was a bubble back in 2005, at 500.”

    Mr. Want.,

    I’m specifically calling out all the posters who mocked me 5 months ago while it was sitting around $1100. These guys were obnoxious and condescending with their arguments. Meanwhile, they are no where to be found after I proclaimed that I would sit and wait a few months to shove it in their face.

  168. Ben says:

    . I was told it was a bubble back in 2005, at 500

    The same morons who proclaimed gold a bubble in 2005 have been screaming bubble all the way up and they scream “I told you so” every pullback. They conveniently disappear when new highs are made. They’ll be back trolling as soon as the next pullback comes.

  169. chicagofinance says:

    97.Barbara says:
    October 5, 2010 at 2:06 pm
    I’ve gone from someone who saves and pays because its the right thing to do to someone who saves and pays because I’m eccentric and quirky. Yep.

    What do you consider “vomiting on adolescent girls” in your paradigm?

  170. Mr Hyde says:

    Chifi 173

    ??????? Is there something you would like to share with the group? ;)

  171. Ben says:

    Flashback to May 12

    Ben says:

    Please enlighten me on these so called gaps. It might simply be your refusal to acknowledge certain realities that have existed throughout history. Are you seriously going to argue with the results? I believe I recall you having same argument with me about Gold at $800. If you want to disprove me, come up with a plausible explanation as to why I’m wrong because the numbers and the results say I’m right and will likely continue to do so.

    I can already can continue on with the “I told you so” rant but I’ll simply wait and revisit this again 1 year later with an even bigger one.

    It’s getting boring being right all the time.

  172. make money says:

    5 months? More like 5 years, from the beginning of this site. I was told it was a bubble back in 2005, at 500.


    You’re right. I was one of them until Spring 2007 and then you and Schiff came into my life and I had a Jesus moment. I saw the light. It was the 2008 silver bullet.

  173. Barbara says:

    “Fetch” still isn’t happening.

  174. Mr Wantanapolous says:

    Make [176],

    It’s going to get real volatile. Short term it is overbought. However, it can remain overbought for a long period of time, if the fundamentals jive. The fundamentals are screaming. That said, have a Jesus moment and devise a strategy to lock in gains. One will not starve with half a plate of food.

  175. Shore Guy says:

    “but with a reasonable cutoff at the bottom [2x or 3x poverty rate], and then a simple flat”

    No. If we want to exempt the first couple of grand to prevent Johnny from having to give Uncle Sam a cut of the $5 bill grandma gives him for his birthday, fine. Beyond some token amount, say $10,000 everyone should pay taxes, even the poor. They will still receive far more in benefits than they pay in but they should have skin in the game.

  176. Outofstater says:

    #173, 177 Okay, I do not understand either of these posts and I am pretty sure I don’t want to.

  177. Mr Hyde says:

    Anyone notice LPS?

    The mortgage market should get very interesting if they blow up. 650K in Puts has to hurt.

  178. Mr Hyde says:

    From naked capitalism:

    Lender Processing Services, a crucial player in the residential mortgage servicing arena, has been hit with two suits seeking national class action status (see here and here for the court filings). If the plaintiffs prevail, the disgorgement of fees by LPS could easily run into the billions of dollars (we have received a more precise estimate from plaintiffs’ counsel). To give a sense of proportion, LPS’s 2009 revenues were $2.4 billion and its net income that year was $276 million.

  179. wtf says:

    (109) “RR and GHWB did not spend anything — congress did; a congress mostly dominated by Democrats since the Depression.”
    Gee, that’s funny you should say that, because Reagan’s own budget director pretty much blames Republicans for our current mess:

    “This debt explosion has resulted not from big spending by the Democrats, but instead the Republican Party’s embrace, about three decades ago, of the insidious doctrine that deficits don’t matter if they result from tax cuts. ”

  180. Anon E. Moose says:

    LamarPolClotDoom [152];

    The same gubmint that can ignore rule of law to screw bondholders and give a car company to a union can create laws to moot the whole MERS/fraudulent conveyance issue.

    I don’t agree with your equivalence, but I do agree that its not a complicated legal fix. I seriously doubt it will grind the real estate market to a halt. Don’t forget that the whole MERS issue is a f-ing smokescreen to keep deadbeats in houses that they never owned and can’t afford. Its gone on this long because the banks want it to. The don’t want the houses back, they know they can’t sell them without taking HUGE balance sheet hits. So they dance a little and have a convenient excuse for non-performing assets still on the books until the QE2 pulls into port.

    We should never forget that our country belongs to banks.

    Well, it was their money that paid for most of it.

  181. Barbara says:


    “Don’t forget that the whole MERS issue is a f-ing smokescreen to keep deadbeats in houses that they never owned and can’t afford. Its gone on this long because the banks want it to.”

    This is exactly my take on it. Just when the short sale process seemed to be getting easier and banks were being pressured to make deals…bam, this hits the fan. This looks like the “floor” they’ve been trying to manufacture.

  182. chicagofinance says:

    180.Outofstater says:
    October 5, 2010 at 5:33 pm
    #173, 177 Okay, I do not understand either of these posts and I am pretty sure I don’t want to.

    Barbara is related to this person….

  183. Shore Guy says:

    Well, the governor took over Atlantic City last night
    And he gave it some money too

  184. xroads says:

    128 shore

    may I suggest Bob Dylans “like a rolling stone”

    “Right now the nation reminds me of a 20-something child of someone who was jet-set rich and suddenly lost everything and who has a feeling of being entitled to continue living the lifestyle of the rich and famous, despite the loss of economic strength that allowed the family to live that way before.”

  185. Shore Guy says:

    “Nice house ya got here, mister. It’d be a shame if something was to happen to it. Something like a fire, mayve. I dunno. Things sometimes happen. Especially when you don’t pay ‘tthe club.'”

  186. Confused In NJ says:

    Interesting, the Time Square Bomber has been given Life In Prison without parole. This costs $63K per year plus free medical. I wonder if Bin Ladin is going to flood the US with failed acts of terrorism, knowing that he can bankrupt us by our housing thousands of muslim matyrs, trained to lie on their Oath of Allegiance for Citizenship.

  187. Shore Guy says:

    I was just playing that earlier today.

    “And now you’re gonna have to get used to it.”

  188. Shore Guy says:

    Just put the guy in the general population. Sometimes bad things happen to bad people.

  189. Shore (189)-

    That guy should go to outer space, strapped to the exterior of a Saturn booster.

    That, or the DOJ reintroduces the guillotine.

  190. xroads says:

    “That, or the DOJ reintroduces the guillotine.”

    not a bad idea to punish people in the eye for an eye manor maybe we could throw a couple of ceo’s up there. I bet that would stop the greedy bastards in their tracks

  191. Confused In NJ says:

    If Faisal Shahzad lied on his Citizenship Oath, his Citizenship is invalid and should be revoked, in which case he should be retried as an enemy combatment by the military as he is not a US citizen. If he retains his Citizenship, he should be tried for Treason & executed. If he is to be held in prison at $63K per year plus inflation, the costs should be garnishered from Congress salaries.

  192. xroads says:

    now you don’t seem so proud about having to be scrounging your next meal? how does it feel to be without a home?

  193. Outofstater says:

    #186 ChiFi – Thank you for the explanation, I think. Barbara, you have my sympathy.

  194. Barbara says:

    Chifi is a known liar. I’m not related to this person.

  195. x (194)-

    I could go for a dual AQ/bankster guillotine execution.

    Brought to you by Coors Light.

  196. We’re gonna spend 63K on this sumbitch dirt-eating bomber and probably give him all kinds of religious privileges and special meals, too.

    Guy should have to eat pork fatback and watch the 700 Club for 12 hours at a stretch.

  197. Essex says:

    200. Put him up at Eddyville….and he would.

  198. Abandon hope, all ye who enter here.

    “Sorry kids, we just report the news… as ugly as they may be. After last week saw an insider selling to buying ratio of 1,411 to 1, this week the ratio has nearly doubled, hitting a ridiculous 2,341 to 1. And while Wall Street’s liars and CNBC’s clowns will have you throw all your money into “leading” techs like Oracle and Google, insiders in these names sold a combined $200 million in stock in the last week alone (following Oracle insider sales of $223 million in the prior week). Insiders can. not. wait. to. get. out. fast. enough. This Fed-induced rally is nothing short of a godsend for each and every corporate executive. But yes, there may be value: there was insider buying in 2 (two) companies last week: General Dynamics and Best Buy, for a whopping total of $177,064. At the same time sales were a total of $414 million: so is anyone wondering why JPMorgan is reopening its gold vault… Anyone left holding the bag on this market when the FRBNY props are taken away, will be left with the same return as all those investors who entrusted their money with Madoff. Guaranteed.”

  199. grim says:

    Just when the short sale process seemed to be getting easier and banks were being pressured to make deals…

    Wha? Huh? Not from my viewpoint.

    Short sales are KILLING the market. Locking first time buyers in a morass of miscommunication and bullshit blown timelines.

    I’ve personally seen half a dozen serious first time buyers check out of the market because of short sales that have gone NOWHERE. They all extended leases or signed new ones and gave up.

    Some of them waited MONTHS for nothing, not to mention the hundreds of dollars WASTED on going through attorney review, inspections, etc. One client SWORE he would never even consider buying again, “THIS IS ALL A F*CKING SCAM” was his quote.

    Short sales should be BANNED. Anyone who tells you there is a process, procedure, or method to these things is a liar, or has never actually gone through it. Every transaction is a completely new screwjob where nobody involved knows how to do anything, and this applies doubly so to the lenders involved.

    First time buyers are critical to the market for reasons we’ve all discussed a dozen times (they enable numerous move up/move down transactions). But these sometimes unrealistically low priced listings are acting as magnets for FT buyers, locking them up and keeping them out of the market, spitting them out on the other side completely disgusted with the process and people involved.

    Caveat Emptor, take the grand you’ll blow on a failed short sale and go bet it on red in AC, the odds are way better.

  200. Fast Eddie says:

    I regret not keeping the business cards of those realtors who told me things such as, “this house bubble talk is a bunch of bullsh1t, it’s different here, take out a HELOC on your current home to buy another” and my favorite, “this town expects a ‘certain’ type of people.” I wonder what they’re doing for a living these days.

  201. Fast Eddie says:

    I would really love for all of us to do a GTG open house tour on this one. There’s no doubt we would have the realtor curled up in a fetal positon in the corner in about 7 minutes. The sellers for this house are probably the type that drop $100 a week on lottery tickets and have a lawsuit lawyer on speed dial.

  202. grim says:

    “I wonder what they’re doing for a living these days.”

    Going around telling everyone that nobody saw it coming, and it wouldn’t have happened if the Fed bailed out Lehman, but no worries, because we’re at the bottom now.

  203. Fast Eddie says:

    When I sell my house, a clause is going into the contract that states that the buyers must shoot the squirrels on site with an A-SQUARE Hannibal 577 Tyrannosaur rifle.

  204. Confused In NJ says:

    207.Fast Eddie says:
    October 5, 2010 at 9:27 pm
    When I sell my house, a clause is going into the contract that states that the buyers must shoot the squirrels on site with an A-SQUARE Hannibal 577 Tyrannosaur rifle.

    Can they substitute a .700 Nitro Express?

  205. chicagofinance says:

    WHERE IS JJ???????????

    The Minnesota Vikings are attempting to pull off their biggest blockbuster since acquiring Brett Favre, FOX Sports reported Tuesday. has learned that the Minnesota Vikings and New England Patriots have been in serious trade talks and are very close to a deal that would send All-Pro wide receiver Randy Moss back to the team that drafted him.

    However, Patriots sources say the deal is contingent upon Moss working out a contract with the Vikings. All sides were still trying to hammer out the contract Tuesday.

    In a 41-point outburst Monday night over the Dolphins, Moss caught zero passes, and he has made his displeasure known with his contract status in New England.

    Moss, 33, was a first-round pick of the Vikings in 1998 and shined for several years before being shipped to Oakland in 2005.

    The four-time All-Pro and seven-time Pro Bowl selection was traded from the Raiders to the Patriots on Day 1 of the 2007 NFL draft in exchange for a fourth-round pick in the ’07 draft.

    In his first three seasons in New England, Moss caught 250 passes for 3,765 yards and 47 touchdowns. In 2010, he has nine catches for 139 yards and three touchdowns.

    The Vikings have been searching for a star-caliber receiver and were unable to pick up Chargers wide receiver Vincent Jackson.

  206. Fast Eddie says:


    That substitute is adequate provided that the buyer waive the house inspection and close within 30 days. I’ll have my lawyer add the addendum.

  207. Confused In NJ says:

    Oct. 5 (Bloomberg) — U.S. home prices may fall again unless the government provides new aid that would enable owners to refinance mortgages, Harvard University economics professor Martin Feldstein said.

    “The danger is house prices are going to start falling again because of the end of the first-time homebuyer credit,” Feldstein said in an interview on Bloomberg Television’s “InBusiness With Margaret Brennan.” “That fall in house prices,” coupled with a lack of equity in homes, “could lead to a big increase in defaults and foreclosures, putting more homes on the market driving prices down.”

    A government tax credit of as much as $8,000 gave housing a temporary lift in late 2009 and early this year and helped stop a fall in property values. A new housing program would need to focus on reducing the principal in mortgages, allowing refinancing of mortgages whose values exceed what the homes would sell for, said Feldstein, chairman of the White House Council of Economic Advisers during the Reagan administration.

    The S&P/Case-Shiller index of property values increased 3.2 percent from July 2009, the smallest year-over-year gain since March, the group said Sept. 28.

    Feldstein, a member of President Barack Obama’s Economic Recovery Advisory Board, told Obama yesterday that extending income tax cuts for two years would stimulate demand and boost the recovery. He is a former president of the National Bureau of Economic Research and a member of the NBER committee that last month declared the worst U.S. recession since the Great Depression ended in June 2009.

    “It would be a mistake to raise any taxes at the current time,” Feldstein said. “The economy is very weak.”

    Obama wants to extend the tax cuts passed under President George W. Bush for American households earning less than $250,000 and individuals earning up to $200,000. The cuts would be allowed to lapse on Dec. 31 for those earning more.

  208. dan says:


    I just bowed out of a short sale tonight as they wanted me to do a home inspection before sending the offer to the bank. Didn’t even matter that I asked about the ask just to win the rights to offer. I’m just frustrated. Even with prices still dropping, so much still seems to be a ripoff.

  209. hb says:


    i saw your post the other day and didnt comment.. i am one the people that bought earlier this year.. yes it was a short sale.. regardless i did do the home inspection before my offer was submitted to the bank. here is my 2 cents on it. doing so worked out in my favor since it allowed me to make concessions to the price before it went to the bank. if i hadnt.. my offer was as is.. the bank did come back and not accept. i held firm and eventually they came to me.

  210. renter says:


    This was our experience with a short sale. I don’t think anyone involved understood the process. It was painful and lasted a very long time. Our lawyer was an expletive who wasted our money and treated us with disdain.

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