Back to reality?

From the Press of Atlantic City:

Mortgate rates hit new low as qualifying standards hit new high, so what’s a housing market to do?

Mortgage rates this month have fallen to their lowest levels in recorded history, but local industry observers still do not expect a flurry of home-buying to follow.

Many applicants who meet today’s tougher standards for mortgage eligibility would need to pay 20 percent up front for a house. Would-be buyers are waiting for prices to bottom out, or putting off growing their families, or simply waiting for more job stability, said Michael Busler, associate professor of business studies at the Richard Stockton College of New Jersey.

“We’re in a housing crisis,” Busler said. “We have an oversupply of houses because we built so much and there are so many foreclosures hitting the market. They’re hoping (for the federal government) to stimulate demand somewhat. Normally, recoveries from severe recessions are much more robust than the one we’re having.”

At First Mutual in Pleasantville, Thursday’s average 30-year rate was even lower, about 4.125 percent, branch manager Jim Malamut said.

However, historically, low rates haven’t helped the struggling housing market, which recorded its worst summer in more than a decade. A shore market of mostly second homes struggled, too.

“The rates are wonderful. They couldn’t be any better, but it’s become more difficult to get a mortgage for a buyer,” said Linda C. Naame, a Century 21 broker and owner in Egg Harbor City.

Naame said she is noticing that clients need a credit score above 640 to get any kind of mortgage. That can be difficult for some first-time buyers who have had trouble getting or keeping jobs in a poor economy, thus costing them chances to build credit.

“It used to be whenever you were in the 600s, you were OK,” Naame said.

Malamut said applicants qualified about 65 percent to 70 percent of the time in 2005; the figure is “probably 40 percent” today.

“Everything is looked at very closely, where before it wasn’t looked at closely,” Malamut said. “The whole industry’s in overhaul.”

The larger down-payment standard “is an obstacle, but it’s probably a good obstacle,” Malamut said. “It makes people put more of an investment into their purchase. A couple years ago, people were buying houses because they were told they had to buy houses. Now, we’re back to reality.”

This entry was posted in Economics, New Jersey Real Estate, Risky Lending. Bookmark the permalink.

373 Responses to Back to reality?

  1. grim says:

    From the NY Times:

    Flawed Foreclosure Documents Thwart Home Sales

    Amanda Ducksworth was supposed to move in to her new home this week, a three-bedroom steal here in central Florida with a horse farm across the road. Instead, she is camped out with her 7-year-old son at her boss’s house.

    Like many buyers across the country, Ms. Ducksworth was about to complete the purchase of a foreclosed house when it suddenly went off the market. Fannie Mae, the giant mortgage holding company that buys loans from commercial lenders, is pulling back sales of homes that might have been foreclosed in bad faith.

    “I gave up my rental thinking I would have a house,” said Ms. Ducksworth, a 28-year-old catering assistant. “Now I’m sharing a room with my son. What the hell is up with that?”

    With home sales this past summer at the lowest level in more than a decade, real estate is ill-prepared to suffer another blow. But as a scandal unfolds over mortgage lenders’ shoddy preparation of foreclosure documents, the fallout is beginning to hammer the housing market, especially in states like Florida where distressed properties are abundant.

    “This crisis takes a situation that’s already bad and kind of cements it into place,” said Joshua Shapiro, chief United States economist for MFR Inc., an economic consulting firm.

  2. Essex says:

    Everybody knows that the dice are loaded
    Everybody rolls with their fingers crossed
    Everybody knows that the war is over
    Everybody knows the good guys lost
    Everybody knows the fight was fixed
    The poor stay poor, the rich get rich
    That’s how it goes
    Everybody knows
    Everybody knows that the boat is leaking
    Everybody knows that the captain lied
    Everybody got this broken feeling
    Like their father or their dog just died

    Everybody talking to their pockets
    Everybody wants a box of chocolates
    And a long stem rose
    Everybody knows

    Everybody knows that you love me baby
    Everybody knows that you really do
    Everybody knows that you’ve been faithful
    Ah give or take a night or two
    Everybody knows you’ve been discreet
    But there were so many people you just had to meet
    Without your clothes
    And everybody knows

    Everybody knows, everybody knows
    That’s how it goes
    Everybody knows

    Everybody knows, everybody knows
    That’s how it goes
    Everybody knows

    And everybody knows that it’s now or never
    Everybody knows that it’s me or you
    And everybody knows that you live forever
    Ah when you’ve done a line or two
    Everybody knows the deal is rotten
    Old Black Joe’s still pickin’ cotton
    For your ribbons and bows
    And everybody knows

    And everybody knows that the Plague is coming
    Everybody knows that it’s moving fast
    Everybody knows that the naked man and woman
    Are just a shining artifact of the past
    Everybody knows the scene is dead
    But there’s gonna be a meter on your bed
    That will disclose
    What everybody knows

    And everybody knows that you’re in trouble
    Everybody knows what you’ve been through
    From the bloody cross on top of Calvary
    To the beach of Malibu
    Everybody knows it’s coming apart
    Take one last look at this Sacred Heart
    Before it blows
    And everybody knows

    Everybody knows, everybody knows
    That’s how it goes
    Everybody knows

    Oh everybody knows, everybody knows
    That’s how it goes
    Everybody knows

    Everybody knows

  3. Thus ends today’s installment of “Pushing on a String”.

    “Mortgage rates this month have fallen to their lowest levels in recorded history, but local industry observers still do not expect a flurry of home-buying to follow.”

  4. Mikeinwaiting says:

    Last thread , Clot I see Dobbs at the A&P once in a while. Plenty of legal (American citizens) who do horse farm work up here. I guess the illegals work harder & cheaper.

  5. grim says:

    From the WSJ:

    The Great Mortgage Mystery

    The big question from the mortgage meltdown isn’t why so many distressed homeowners are defaulting on their loans.

    It’s why any of them are still making payments.

    In the worst-hit areas millions have no equity left, and little hope of seeing any anytime soon. The market value of their homes is far below the size of the mortgage.

    If they just stop paying, what is going to happen to them? In many cases they may get to live in the home rent-free for months, even years, until the bank gets around to seizing it.

    If Frank Abagnale—the con man played by Leonardo DiCaprio in the film “Catch Me If You Can”—were operating today, he’d probably be living rent-free in a super-luxury high-rise in Miami.

  6. Mikeinwaiting says:

    Futures & open markets all red world wide. Not to worry a little more pump before the dump is warranted.

  7. Nomad says:

    Interesting article asking why so many continue to pay their mtgs. Banks don’t have the resources in place to properly do the foreclosure and even if /when they do, the paper has long been sold off and owned by g-d knows who and the market to buy all these homes remains soft – but you all know that.

    So how long does it really take to work through this mtg mess to clean up all the foreclosures – on the bank side am I correct in assuming they don’t want it all to happen at once since they take a big hit on the loss when they sell the house and have to shore up their capital positions?

    In reality, this thing looks like it has at least 5 years or more to work it’s way through – have the banks increased their reserves to cover all of this or is that what they are doing by not lending money these days?

  8. Essex says:

    Let’s all focus on partisan politics today. You sit here. And you sit here. And together we’ll drag this once half-way decent country (perhaps circa 1940) into 2nd and then 3rd world status. Let’s make sure scumbags like Dobbs get the last word. He’ll rant away and put money into the pockets of those who he claims to hate. Let’s make sure that we don’t upgrade any of our crumbling bridges so that the next load of school buses plummets into the river and we are “outraged” as to why. Let’s vilify some teachers and cops, because we all know they are worthless. Every single one of them. Carry On!

  9. Essex says:

    Let’s feign outrage….ready! One…two…three!!!

  10. Essex says:

    Let’s pretend that we are complete badasses….that our guns will protect us and that we’ll go up against an foe (just as long as they are safely behind a keyboard)…..let’s pose with our firearms and make sure that the American flag is behind us. All the way! USA!

  11. mike (6)-

    Big birth/death revision coming today on the UE. I’ve read it could be an upwards revision by as much as 1mm…but I’m more leaning toward thinking that BLS simply post a much smaller- and fraudulent- number.

    Lying. It’s what America does.

  12. I don’t hate cops and teachers. I hate their parasite union bosses, and I hate that we cannot provide salary and bennies such as the ones earned in the boom years.

  13. Essex says:

    Sure Lamar…no problem. Schools are fairly political places and jobs like teachers are public spots where they work with the very personal offspring of some rather kind but often unsavory types. Let’s open these jobs up like the private sector and take an approach like that. OK.

    So, if you figure that maybe no protections for these workers and an at will work agreement would be OK. What would be a fair salary if you want to attract a good candidate. A salary that would retain better people would be what? Once an economy improves and it may one day, how do you attract skilled folks to this work. Of course it is just “baby sitting” right? No real intellectual skills are required. No patience or knowledge of things like history and philosophy is needed. Oh, the average Jerseyite has these skills anyway so they are really a commodity. Uh huh.

  14. Look at this asshat Bullard on Squawk. Better yet, Liesman is standing there like some sort of college professor.

    Bullard poo-poos the eventuality of the Fed buying all the UST’s debt, then laughs incredulously. He probably knows that only 9-10 people in this land of idiots realizes we just passed Japan as the #2 holder of our own debt and stand a good chance of overtaking China for the #1 spot before Christmas.

    The stench of oblivion has never been stronger.

  15. Essex says:

    Got a kickass Stratocaster on eBay Lamar. May be the last guitar you’ll ever want or need! Lemme know….;-)

  16. sx (13)-

    Not saying any of those things. Just saying that the comp and bennies are out of proportion to the private sector and the system is unsustainable.

    Don’t care much about “protections for workers” or any of that stuff. The concept is pretty much dead in the private sector.

    When the economy improves, the whole situation can be revisited.

  17. Mikeinwaiting says:

    Clot where you up my way this week.

  18. Essex says:

    16. A secretary at a decent multinational corporation makes more than your average teacher and has far less in the way of responsibility. Most teachers simply forgo a competitive salary for the backend money (pensions). Simply put a teaching salary in most cases for the first 10 years is a second income. Nothing more. You will never buy a home with a teacher’s income. You’ll never live a high life. Most smart kids know this and avoid the positions like the plague. Turnover for new teachers is near 50%. Half leave the field in the first few years. It’s just not that desirable a job for most people.

  19. Mikeinwaiting says:

    “Lying. It’s what America does. ” Were number one!

  20. Essex says:

    16. I completely understand risk/reward equations and enjoyed experiencing two IPOs myself during the tech boom. And yes, I love competition and the flame against your ass that conflict brings (who’da thunk it? right?) Yet, in a public service role if you starve people like teachers and cops, you will just attract bottom feeders and corruption. Accountability is one thing, but cheaping out is quite another.

  21. New in NJ says:

    Lamar, aka Poltroon says:

    When the economy improves, the whole situation can be revisited.

    Clot, is that an unprecedented (from you) glimmer of hope?

  22. Essex says:

    19. Not everyone lies Mike….a least not well.

  23. Dissident HEHEHE says:

    Clot, I just ignore people who can’t understand basic math.

  24. Essex says:

    23. “figures lie and liars figure.”

  25. grim says:

    What lala land are you in? I know teachers pulling down 100k a year, and some with admin responsibilities pulling down even more.

    I’m not talking about scanning the APP database either, these are folks I know.

  26. Essex says:

    25. These are folks in the business for 30 years…..go figure. The young blood subsists.

  27. Dissident HEHEHE says:

    “Yet, in a public service role if you starve people like teachers and cops, you will just attract bottom feeders and corruption.”

    Umm, you obviously haven’t been around too many NJ municipal and state employees have you? That’s the whole gimmick with municipal and state employees in the first place. Ninety percent of them couldn’t hack it in the private sector so the powers that be assured they get some government job with maxi-bennies that they can’t get fired from in return for votes; JFK bragged about how he had locked up a new voting class. It’s kind of a step up from the prison alternative that the powers that be chose for the inner city minority and poor white youths.

    Basically you pretend to teach, they pretend to learn, a few of the bright ones might escape, a few lucky ones might get muni jobs, the rest will go on to selling drugs etc and then they’ll get mopped up by the cops. That’s basically municipal government at work. The bad thing is the model relies on an effective private sector which we no longer have in this country.

  28. Essex says:

    Tip the scale then….make new hires more attractive and make the old guard work to retain their status. Simple.

  29. Essex says:

    27. That may be the most cynical thing I have read. Lot’s a kids here in this state flourish in the public schools. Some not. I know. But the whole scene is a chaotic mix of talents and personalities. Which is why strong folks are needed more than ever to train the young. The boomers blew it. The country needs better people now or you can basically kiss the future goodbye. As a parent I refuse to surrender to the skeptics and naysayers. I can’t do it. Never could.

  30. Essex says:

    I’m off today with a sick little kid…so look for me to chime in more than usual… between chicken soup!

  31. mike (17)-

    Nope. Turns out my daughter plays at Vernon tomorrow afternoon, but I’m on the road with soccer.

    We have to pick a day to do this. I’m dying to see some foot-high grass.

  32. new (21)-

    No. There is no hope. The best we can want is a final, cataclysmic purge.

  33. Essex says:

    Oblivion is overrated.

  34. sx (26)-

    You just presented the most effective argument there is for breaking up the Ponzi of teachers’ unions. The first in feast…the last in starve.

    “These are folks in the business for 30 years…..go figure. The young blood subsists.”

  35. Essex says:

    34. I know….but I still believe that teachers need protections that collective bargaining provides. I still think that unions, if properly organized are important and have served a valuable function for labor. Sucks to see both sides of the issues. Makes you a little nuts.

  36. Essex says:

    What I cannot stomach is the vilification of the teacher. The hatred for intellectualism and the completely bankrupt arguments surrounding investment in the country. THIS is why we will be slaves.

  37. Problem is, municipal unions have been proved to end up at the same place, time after time:

    1. Ponzi financial structure.

    2. Political influence-peddling/outright vote-buying.

    3. Use of outsized political influence to negotiate unsustainable salary/bennie packages (in return for delivering blocs of votes, natch).

    4. Susceptibility to racketeering-like business practices.

    When times are good, everyone ignores all this (since the US is, after all, nothing more than a giant collection of ignoramuses). Now that times are bad, this system is clearly proved to be unsustainable…and is helping to cause enough fiscal hemmorrhage as to threaten the solvency of scores of states and municipalities.

    The patient is bleeding out on the ER floor. Before we address quality of life, teaching, learning or attraction of top candidates, the bleeding has to be stopped.

  38. Essex says:

    Well put lamar. Well put. But we cannot amputate the arm to save the hand.

  39. sx (36)-

    I live in an alleged “Blue Ribbon” district. My daughter is a senior in HS. Most of the hatred of intellectualism I’ve witnessed actually comes from teachers here. They will not deviate from rubric, Scan-tron tests or do anything that actually stimulates thought or discussion.

    My daughter is a close to 4.0 student and engages in virtually no crystalline thought and has difficulty in breaking large academic tasks into manageable pieces. The really scary thing is, the colleges at which she’s interviewed (a couple more than once) actually view her as a potential top-tier student.

    I tried to stop her from submitting an execrable admissions essay to one school. To my mind, it reflected the voice, maturity and writing skill of a bright ninth grader. A few days later, she submitted it to her English teacher, who scored it 99.

  40. sx (38)-

    You can amputate the arm to save the patient, though.

  41. Of course, all our states and municipalities can appeal to Uncle Ben to keep that printer spinning 24/7…

  42. Mr Wantanapolous says:

    Essex [2],

    There is a blood red circle
    On the cold dark ground
    And the rain is falling down
    The church door’s thrown open
    I can hear the organ’s song
    But the congregation’s gone
    My city of ruins
    My city of ruins

    Now the sweet bells of mercy
    Drift through the evening trees
    Young men on the corner
    Like scattered leaves,
    The boarded up windows,
    The empty streets
    While my brother’s down on his knees
    My city of ruins
    My city of ruins

    Come on, rise up! Come on, rise up!
    Come on, rise up! Come on, rise up!
    Come on, rise up! Come on, rise up!

    Now’s there’s tears on the pillow
    Darlin’ where we slept
    And you took my heart when you left
    Without your sweet kiss
    My soul is lost, my friend
    Tell me how do I begin again?
    My city’s in ruins
    My city’s in ruins

  43. chicagofinance says:

    FWIW: I don’t this movie covers new ground, but it opens today… is getting some mixed reviews, I am not sure how even handed it is.

  44. chicagofinance says:

    I don’t think this movie…..

  45. Libtard and the City says:

    Rally on my brotha.

    Consensus Consensus Range Actual
    Nonfarm Payrolls – M/M change -8,000 -75,000 to 25,000 -95,000
    Private Payrolls – M/M change 85,000 0 to 100,000 64,000
    Unemployment Rate – Level 9.7 % 9.6 % to 9.8 % 9.6 %
    Average Hourly Earnings – M/M change 0.1 % 0.0 % to 0.2 % 0.0 %
    Av Workweek – All Employees 34.2 hrs 34.2 hrs to 34.3 hrs

  46. ßtan says:

    I know teachers who have been working for 10-12 years pulling in 100K. Very few are below 85 after ten years.

    Just my .02.

  47. Mr Hyde says:


    from last night

    Anyone here ever watch the Discovery Channel show Extreme Engineering? Episode of the Kárahnjúkar Hydropower Project had a tunnel built in Iceland for the Aluminum smelting plant? The welders put all of the drill heads/bits in backwards!
    These experts were flown in for the job from all over the world, to do this and they still welded in the drill head assembly wrong!

    I work in engineering and i see this type of crap all the time. In my opinion its caused by excessive management. To many levels of management and not enough accountability. The most successful projects i have been a part of were those where 2 or 3 individuals were told to get it done right the first time, given full support, and told they would be held 100% accountable for the end results. It ruffled some middle management feathers to be bypassed, but each time i have seen a project done like this its has been successful the first time out.

    The success comes from the person/s managing the project getting in the pits and working hand in hand with the guys getting dirty, not just stopping in for occasional spot checks, and not a case of 15 levels of management between the decision makers and the grunts in the dirt. If management isnt getting dirty and doesn’t know the grunts first names then they aren’t doing it right.

  48. Dissident HEHEHE says:

    “What I cannot stomach is the vilification of the teacher”

    My old man was a public school teacher, may he rest in peace. He was a nice enough guy, a decent disciplinarian, but he wasn’t too bright and he sure as hell wasn’t one to bust his @ss. If I had kids I certainly wouldn’t want him to be teaching them.

    My experience with most friends who became teachers was that they were looking for an easy gig conducive to having a family. Certainly there’s some of those Dead Poets Society sorts out there who think their goal in life is to meld the young minds of America but I think its safe to say most of the teachers in this country fall into the former category and not the latter.

    As far as unions; sorry chief the cats been out of the bag on that one for 30 yrs. The corps bought off DC and assured they can ship enough jobs overseas to quash any union power in this country.

  49. Mr Hyde says:


    from last night

    October 7, 2010 at 10:36 pm

    Agree with both Moose and Hyde.

    How about this:
    Judge to Deadbeat: “Did you make your payments?”
    Deadbeat: “No.”
    Judge to Bank: “Is your paperwork 100% legal?”
    Bank: “No.”
    Judge: “I hereby put the property up for public auction tomorrow, and the proceeds of sale will be distributed to the residents as a property tax refund.”

    I would he quite pleased with this approach! of course this would also wipe out the banks as well and as such we will never see it. Such a scheme would drive down RE prices like an elevator in freefall.

  50. Essex says:

    46. That is a great single family income right? Should be able to live pretty well on that.

  51. Essex says:

    48. So your daddy issues dictate what? So your study one…plus a few folks you met around town. Come on man. Science.

  52. Essex says:

    See folks. I’m not buying a lot of what you are selling here. Sorry.

  53. Mr Hyde says:


    RE 49,

    how about we agree to this idea and nuke both parties!?!?!

  54. Mr Wantanapolous says:

    Bruce in mod?

  55. Essex says:

    I am changing my Nom de Plume today. from now on I will be known as Janus.

  56. Janus says:

    Janus (or Ianus) is the god of gates, doors, doorways, beginnings and endings. His most prominent remnant in modern culture is his namesake, the month of January, which begins the new year.The reason for this is that one is looking back at the previous year and the other is looking forward to the new year ahead. He is most often depicted as having two faces or heads, facing in opposite directions. These heads were believed to look into both the future and the past.

  57. yo'me says:

    Get ready for over 300 thread count.Essex is off today.Public v private debate.A nice day for lurking.

  58. Shore Guy says:

    Essex is now two faced?

  59. Janus says:

    Shore lets called it “dualism” and leave it at that.

  60. look behind = charred earth

    look ahead = oblivion

  61. Libtard and the City says:

    “Essex is now two faced?”


  62. Mr Hyde says:


    Can we then have charges brought up against the bank who shows up with forged paper work?

  63. Looky! Equities pricing in yet more QE.

    Anybody get the feeling that if we don’t get about 3 trill in QE on 11/2 the market will crash? The real scary thing is that there’s probably NO number that doesn’t trigger a “sell the news” event.

    Feh. Time for all the weak, late longs to get annihilated, anyway.

  64. Shore Guy says:

    ” I still believe that teachers need protections that collective bargaining provide”

    I have no problem with any employee group achieving benefits and protwctions via collective bargaining. With respect to education, there are those who assert that with the advent of collective bargaining the tenure system is an unnecessary duplication of protextions. I take no stnd on this but it is worth exploring.

    As for runaway public-employee benefits and salaries, ALL of the cards are in the haands of management (except for police and fire, whereinterest arbitration exists) and management can reverse the trend right now, should management have the interest and the will. The quest for reelection seems to emasculate management.

  65. hyde (64)-

    What is this “charges against banks” you speak of? All bow down to banks!

  66. Banking is the state religion of Amerika.

  67. Shore Guy says:

    ” lets called it ‘dualism’ ”

    I had a girlfriend in college who was a dualist, went both ways.

  68. public unions + publicly-elected management = negative feedback loop of collusion

  69. Janus says:

    I’m brewing a cup of tea…looks like we are in for a long one today.

  70. Mr Wantanapolous says:

    Shore [59],

    If he adds a third he make make the cover of Time?,16641,19990215,00.html

  71. Libtard and the City says:

    Futures turn positive. See?

  72. leftwing says:

    SL, congrats to you and yours. Good luck with the new home.

  73. still_looking says:

    From yesterday’s thread:

    S_L congrats on the new place. One caveat, I am afraid that in your giddy joy you may have thrown caution to the wind. Inviting children ‘and’ someone you have never met who compiled an online “hit list” which placed you on it. Seems to be somewhat less than intelligent. Note: the internet is not completely safe. Re investor might be a troll, or a neato character…or simply a person who easily resorts to ad hominem attacks on anyone he/she fails to understand. Either way, opening your new home up to someone like that seems a little risky. My two cents.

    You’re worried about reinvestor???

    Oh, please. Really? How is it I bet I know who reinvestor is and you don’t? Have you been to a GTG?


  74. still_looking says:

    leftwing, 74

    Thank you! I owe it to grim, my RE agent — could not have worked out better.


  75. Janus says:

    I haven’t made a GTG yet. I tend to not get out much. I will be at the Bad Religion concert though.

  76. still_looking says:

    75 is my clip/response to Essex/Janus.


  77. Shore Guy says:

    So, about the Nobel Peace Prize. Obama and the current winner have so very much in common. The current winner has toiled for years to free his people from communist oppression and has endured prison and beatings to promote democratic reforms and BO, well, was breathing — oh, and hoped and aspired for peace.

    So, one sees, they are very much the same.

  78. Janus says:

    79. Contrast is needed to create a distinguishable reality, without which we would experience nothingness.

  79. House Whine says:

    Essex ; I agree with some of what you are saying it. But give me a break – a salary of 85 to 100k is not bad, all things considered especially when you throw in job security, pension, and extremely cheap healthcare. Oh, not to mention summers off. Lest you think I have no skin in the game, my offspring is now a high school teacher.

  80. still_looking says:


    Probably explains it. So far to date, I haven’t met anyone at a GTG that even remotely strikes me as an axe murderer or thief. Mostly intelligent, informed and caring folks who (with some exception) share the same feelings about the changes in this country.

    Never heard of the group Bad Religion… The sl’s are fans of Ozzy/Sabbath.


  81. Outofstater says:

    None of this matters because there is no money. It is all gone and only debt remains.

  82. Janus says:

    82. average teacher makes about $50k….so that figure is what?

  83. Janus says:

    84. How is it different? Are we going to be debt free this year as a nation thanks to a cancellation here or there of a project. Are we planning on going to live in caves> or do we make wise investments. Three letters….F D R .

  84. Confused In NJ says:

    Stock futures slip, then recover after monthly jobs report-

    The slip was the job report, the recovery was Ben pouring tax dollars into equities.

  85. Janus says:

    “California was a very close second, where the average teacher salary is $57604. New Jersey teachers make approximately $56635 per year.”


  86. Janus says:

    Every few years the American Federation of Teachers releases a Teacher Salary Trends report about teacher salaries across the United States. This information helps teachers decide where to teach and how much they should earn. The latest report indicated that the average teacher salary was $47,602. The Federation indicated that unfortunately, teachers are struggling to find housing in their areas that they can afford on their salaries. As more teachers pursue additional education after receiving their bachelor’s degree, their student loan debt increases dramatically. New teachers may not start at an average teacher salary and could therefore struggle even more than veteran teachers, who may have higher salaries.


  87. Still_Renting says:

    Breaking News Alert
    The New York Times
    Fri, October 08, 2010 — 8:38 AM ET

    U.S. Economy Lost 95,000 Jobs in September; Jobless Rate Steady at 9.6%

    The United States economy shed 95,000 nonfarm jobs in
    September, the Labor Department reported Friday, with gains
    in private-sector employment outweighed by cutbacks in
    government payrolls. The steep drop was far worse than
    economists had been predicting.

    While private companies added 64,000 jobs, total government
    employment fell by 159,000. The unemployment rate, which
    measures the percentage of workers actively looking for but
    unable to find jobs, stayed at 9.6 percent.

    The recovery that officially began in June 2009 has slowed
    considerably in recent months, raising concerns about the
    long slog the country will have to endure before the economy
    finally starts to feel healthy again.

  88. Janus says:

    89. Of course I could suggest that kids become pilots for a commuter airline. They can start at $16k….see? Private industry knows how to handle their employees.


  89. House Whine says:

    85- Janus. How would I know?? I was just responding to post46 and 50’s response. Mostly, I am saying to Essex that for those who supposedly earn btwn 85 and 100k they aren’t doing so badly. I never stated the stats used by others are accurate.

  90. Mr Hyde says:


    Are you familiar with John Taylor Gatto’s book?

  91. Libtard and the City says:


    Teacher Salary in Montclair, NJ
    $70,563 = Average Salary in Montclair, NJ
    $58,354 = US National Average Salary

    Plus on average, they work approximately 60 fewer days than their private sector counterparts.

    But my issue isn’t with salary. Teachers SHOULD be paid very well. It’s their perks and benefits that their unions obtained in exchange for vote and endorsements that need to be reformed in a huge way. Longevity pay? Come on.

  92. Janus says:

    I have read some of his stuff. The Underground History was the one I saw. He was someone who taught for a while in New York I think and wrote about it.

  93. Janus says:

    94. So stu, what do you pull down a year in your household?

  94. Libtard and the City says:

    2.36 on the ten-year.

  95. Janus says:

    Two working spouses one in publishing….let’s say …$90k…give or take…time enough to sit around a kvetch between trips to the new Caf….and you there…the “athlete/singer”…project management type….in NYC…maybe $120….perhaps a bonus…maybe not.

  96. Janus says:

    So anyhow….

  97. leftwing says:


    After all the discussion on ‘produce the note’ regarding the ability of creditors to foreclose on borrowers, are borrowers at the same risk in paying a loan back?

    I considered this a while back when we were thinking of paying off one of our mortgages. We decided not to paydown – we’re selling the property instead and with the mortgage in the 1 year ARM period I think our rate is now near 3%.

    The question remains for me though. If one is paying down a mortgage down substantially, or in total, do you become exposed to a ‘produce the note’ scenario? If I pay the mortgage in full, do I find out two weeks later that the note can’t be found or worse that the entity I paid is not the noteholder or a fiduciary for the holder?

  98. Libtard and the City says:


    Why does that matter? I chose to enter the private sector. I chose to earn a starting salary of $18,000 with no benefits except for health-care during the early 90’s recession. Did anyone force you to teach?

    And don’t get me going with your union. It is a conversation you don’t want to start with me. Let’s just leave it at, if teachers cared about the children, class sizes wouldn’t be increasing. They care more about their benefits than our childrens’ education. And quite honestly, many of them truly suck.

  99. The Real Nom DePlume says:

    Speaking of government lying, its now Day 69 without the expatriate report.

    I stand by my prediction that this report doesn’t get released until November 3.

    Otherwise, it provides an effective (albeit outsized) counterargument to Obama’s tax plan.

    I am going to make another prediction and say that this expat number will be north of 500.

    Janus (very apropos, I approve), next time no caps on nom de plume. Otherwise, it makes it my handle

  100. Libtard and the City says:

    And no bonus. What does your wife make?

    Now let’s talk about retirement Janus.

    Calculate your pension and healthcare costs and what you paid into them.

    Dollars to donuts, I guarantee you that my wife and I have paid in 1000% more than you have and will receive 90% less than you will at retirement.

    I dare you to do the math…prick.

  101. Janus says:

    101. You are blaming the troops for the decisions of the generals.

  102. Libtard and the City says:

    If it would help you to understand that the average benefits public sector employees receive are closer to the executive level benefits so few in the private sector receive, I will share my tax forms with you. You know my honesty. Don’t worry, I will blank out all of the names and soc sec numbers. But I doubt it would change your opinion. By the way, are you working two jobs at once? I am a workflow engineer and a premedia manager accountable for 10 direct reports and dotted-line responsible for 20 reports in Chennai, India. When you factor in your summers off, you probably make more than me. Did you take a 12% pay cut? Did you lose your retirement benefit? Are you asked to pay 15% more every year for your cr@ppy health care costs? Well ya prick?

  103. Janus says:

    105. Wow…an angry liberal. I see you guys zipping through the Whole Foods parking lot all the time.

  104. Janus says:

    105. I’ll bet you could get a great bonus if your figured out a way to move those other 10 American jobs over to China. Maybe?

  105. 30 year realtor says:

    #5 WSJ article: Even those who continue to pay because of moral dilema will eventually stop paying! People will not continue paying above market monthly housing cost for a home they have already swallowed a large loss of equity on. As more and more default the stigma will abate.

    Banks will be doing mods and short sales for the payers for decades. Journal is right, something has to move this pig through the snake!

  106. Libtard and the City says:

    Generals my backside. If things were so rosy in the private sector and so cruddy in the Public sector, you wouldn’t still be there. What’s stopping you from seeing if the grass is greener on the other side?

    Gator has been looking for a government job since the day our little guy was born. I told her to accept a salary 50% less than what she makes in publishing. Unfortunately, we don’t know anyone on the inside, so she never gets the job. Gator is 500% overqualified for these positions. Yet, Joe Schmo always gets the job.

    Did you go looking in the private sector where everyone has bonuses, is paid in gold and retires to Alpine?

  107. JJ says:

    I love teaching, when I do it I do it for free. I only do it like once a year though. I would love to teach full time but I know I would burn out after 1-3 years and then too late to go back to old career. Plus who can afford to live off the salary. I have to say honey, go back to work full time, kids be prepared to take loans out the wazzo for college and give up 80% of your inheritance, daddy wants to teach.

    The new young female teachers in my kids elementary school are underpaid. The news ones are smoking hot, they could make 120K as a shot girl, 200K as strippers. Maybe Vegas show girl doing escort work on side 300K
    God Bless them working at 50K a year, I guess they figure those other careers they are done by 30 and teaching you can do even as an old hag.

  108. Janus says:

    109. Let it out Stu….there, there….let it all out.

  109. leftwing says:

    SX, 8-10

    Demagoguery is not the sole province of the right or the left.

    The irony, or the endgame if one is to believe that both sides of the political spectrum are actually smart enough to plot and will the outcome, is that the ‘rich’ guy banging down c. $200k and the firefighter/cop have much more in common usually than differences yet see eachother as adversaries.

    The radical left and rabid right are written off by both groups as obvious crazies. Their cacophony bleeds over though so J6P sees the successful bootstrapper as his enemy, and the upper bracket crowd views the firefighter/cop as an economic leech.

    Meanwhile, the ‘crazies’ get their agendas through as we subsidize the least productive and most destructive behaviours of the underclass and the excesses of the upper classes while the 80% in between canabalize each other.

    Welcome to America, c. 2010.

  110. Unexpected HEHEHE says:

    Daddy issues have nothing to do with it; just telling you of my experience. I had a few good teachers but the vast majority where mediocre at best and bad. Of course they all got paid the same.

    I’d say the primary characteristic driving a good teacher was ego; the primary characteristic driving the rest was a desire for job security and summers off.

    Just because most of your arguments don’t rise 10th grade idealism doesn’t mean you have to attack others who don’t share them.

  111. Libtard and the City says:

    I’ve shopped in Whole Foods once ya prick. Amex had an amazing offer plus I have $10 off of $50 which actually cuts their prices down to equal to Shoprite. And tell me prick, where do you shop?

    And I’m far from a liberal. I cheer Christie’s attacks on the teachers’ union who care only about themselves and not about our children.

  112. Mr Hyde says:


    If I pay the mortgage in full, do I find out two weeks later that the note can’t be found or worse that the entity I paid is not the noteholder or a fiduciary for the holder

    that would appear to be a real risk at the moment

  113. young buck says:

    #8 S-X/J-Nus
    “Let’s vilify some teachers and cops, because we all know they are worthless. Every single one of them.”

    So what do you make of these two recent news articles?

    (i) Highest property taxes in the country – New Jersey residents pay the highest annual tax bill of any state – a median $6,579 per year, according to the Tax Foundation, which calculated the tally using data the U.S. Census Bureau released on Tuesday. Connecticut comes in second place ($4,738), followed by New Hampshire ($4,636) and New York ($3,755).

    (ii) N.J. police salaries rank highest in nation –

    You don’t think any police compensation reform is needed? We should maintain our highest-in-the-nation property taxes in order to maintain their highest-in-the-nation salaries?

  114. The Real Nom DePlume says:

    [116] buck

    For property tax effect, New Hampshire is always in those stats because they have high property tax rates. But they have much lower valuations than NJ, and no income or sales taxes, so the comparison is a bit suspect. Folks in NH pay far less in taxes than nearly all other states, property taxes notwithstanding.

  115. Janus says:

    116. We pay em too. We live in one of “the” highest taxed towns in Essex County. I’m just happy to make ends meet sometimes. Scary isn’t it?

  116. Libtard and the City says:

    Want to improve the schools Essex? Track the progress of all students from kindergarten through grade 12. Use standardized testing scores as the gauge. Create a matrix so you can see which path of teachers yielded the best results. Pay those teachers more and replace the others. This is what a workflow engineer does. Nah, we’ll just stick with tenure and bonuses for longevity to motivate teachers. Maybe one day they can move up to the administration where they will have no homework and $150,000 salaries and personal secretaries.

    You can’t defend yourself Essex, because you absolutely know that I’m 100% right. Now back to work for me. My job is not guaranteed, like yours is. Prick.

  117. The Real Nom DePlume says:

    [116] buck

    Also, when I lived in a suburb of Manchester, they had about 8 full time cops and a volunteer fire department. One elementary-middle school (relied on a regional h.s.). In terms of population, the town was probably on par with Garwood (but much nicer). Their total municipal budget was probably less than the salaries for the Garwood Chief of Police, Fire Chief and School Superintendent.

  118. Libtard and the City says:

    In other news, the market is up. Must be the result of the large loss of public sector jobs revealed in this morning’s jobs report.

  119. Libtard and the City says:


    Florham Park is like that. Huge amount of volunteerism in that town. Property taxes there are dirt cheap for NJ.

  120. Libtard and the City says:

    Do you have nice plans for your Columbus Day Essex? The rest of us will be working.

  121. Janus says:

    119. Why should I “defend” myself. I know that I can outrun you.

  122. JJ says:

    Bring back nuns who know how to work a wooden ruler over a pair of knuckles and parents who know how to use a belt.

    Back when I was a bad a$$ fourth grader the nuns gave me the smacking with the ruler nice and hard a few times one day for the usual, spitballs, troublemaking, wise cracks etc. and I was like whatever, Nun did not even send home a note and I was like she is done, she is gonna lose street cred with the other 40 kids, Ha Ha, I win.

    Well I get home and the damm Nun called my Dad to tell him what happened and instructed him to punish me, Dad is furious grabs me flips me across his lap and is smacking me with the belt as hard as he can a good eight or ten times. I had my pants on and Dad is getting older and I am getting bigger and I realized it did not hurt as much anymore, so I say, that all you got?

    Mistake was he already had a few beers and a bad day already, guess what that wasn’t all he got. Damm guy pulled down my pants, put me back over lap and introduced me to “mr. buckle”, a good ten wacks with that and some bloody welts and going to bed with no dinner and sleeping on stomach was a nightmare. I think I inhaled breakfast in morning got to school and sitting on the wooden chair was torture so I start squirming around. The damm Nun comes up looks me straight in eye waving ruler under my nose and goes if you don’t sit still I have to call your Dad again. Damm Nun, don’t cross them.

    That is why teachers suck today, they don’t know how to get kids to behave nor do they work with the parents. My nun straightened me out that year in one day. God Bless her. btw don’t ever ask you dad is that all you got in 4th grade. Next time I did it I was in 7th grade and I learned my lesson as I sucker punched him before the first spanking.

    Mr Hyde says:
    October 8, 2010 at 9:33 am


    Are you familiar with John Taylor Gatto’s book?

  123. House Whine says:

    People working in the private sector are working harder than ever. Productivity is up but worker body counts are down. People are being pushed to the limit. That’s what I see in my little bubble of a world. So forgive many of us tired worker bees for being a tad bitter about the way things are going. There has to be some give and take. Some flexibility. Seriously, it they really do bump up the retirement age for SS I don’t know how older workers are going to be able to keep up the pace as they age.

  124. The Real Nom DePlume says:

    Which one is not like the others?

    Lech Walesa
    Desmond Tutu
    Liu Xiaobo
    Mother Teresa (deceased)
    Nelson Mandela
    Elie Weisel
    Mohamed Anwar al-Sadat
    Yitzak Rabin
    Barack Obama

  125. Janus says:

    119. So Stu wants to create a study and another admin position (or three) to track results…when all you really need are decent people in front of the kids. Folks that can think straight and make a point while keeping order.

  126. Libtard and the City says:

    But I shouldn’t get so worked up. The state pension funds are so underfunded that there is absolutely no possible way that you will get what you were promised. It’s like an unenforceable contract. We really don’t need reform. The pensions will eventually not be paid at all and finally equilibrium will be met. And there will still be people willing to teach, because by this time, there will be so many unemployed from the private sector who will be willing to teach for peanuts. Please don’t take your frustrations out on my child.

  127. JJ says:

    agape world ponzi scheme mansion at auction today

  128. Janus says:

    129. How do you know that I am counting on that revenue stream to retire? How do you know what I do for a living in fact. I’ve never said I taught. See, I think you are an angry guy with a grudge, but I am not your problem. Nope.

  129. The Real Nom DePlume says:

    [125] jj

    Today, your kid can have DYFS nazis crawl up your ass for looking at the crossways. Trust me, I know. And people in the know, including DYFS attorneys I know, will tell you that DYFS can investigate you for anything, no matter how apparently frivolous, and you have to lawyer up. These people are the fcuking Gestapo.

    One attorney I know who handles DYFS defense cases told me that his own kids threatened to report him to DYFS when they weren’t getting their way. His response? “Go ahead and report. DYFS will take you out of here and place you with some nice black family in Plainfield. I’ll visit from time to time.” That ended the DYFS b.s. right there.

  130. Janus says:

    129. Something tells me that you have some real issues with anger. Careful. Sometimes that doesn’t end well.

  131. The Real Nom DePlume says:

    [132] me

    Should be “looking at them crossways”

  132. Libtard and the City says:

    “Folks that can think straight and make a point while keeping order.”

    Let me know when you find one.

    Plus, you don’t need another position to track these results. I could do it in about one workday for my entire school system. It’s the public worker mentality that every job that differs slightly from what is says on their employment contract requires another full-time position. This is why my son is learning spanish from a cassette and parents have become the school librarians. So you and your spouse can have lifetime healthcare coverage.

  133. Janus says:

    126. Yep. real busy folks here….Ahem.

  134. The Real Nom DePlume says:

    [133] janus

    Stu is one of the least angry people I know. Not nearly as angry as me or Clot. And not nearly as able to inflict imminent bodily harm.

  135. Janus says:

    135. I’ll bet you are a genius when you aren’t imploding.

  136. Janus says:

    137. Oh boy here we go.

  137. The Real Nom DePlume says:

    Well, back to the daddy grind. Have fun jousting with janus.

  138. Janus says:

    137. Anger is a weakness. Calm is a strength. Keep that in mind.

  139. Libtard and the City says:


    This is NOT anger. Come see me play hockey if you want to see anger. I’m just a pacifist hoping you’ll see the light.

    Speaking of hockey, of the 20 players on my team, four can’t go this year due to layoffs and two have season canceling injuries. We’ve found two replacements so far. Anyone else interested? Lot’s of extra ice time!!!

  140. Juice Box says:

    JJ- I survived Catholic School in the Bronx as well St. Ann’s on BainBridge Ave. We had a few Nuns there that could make you pee in your pants on command. All they had to do was waive the ruler around a bit.

    I went back there recently to pick up a baptismal certificate for a cousin who was getting married out of the country, it sent shivers down my spine as I walked through the door, I almost peed in my pants again!

  141. Libtard and the City says:

    Calm or ignorance Essex?

  142. Janus says:

    Ignorance is bliss, stu. Or so they say.

  143. still_looking says:


    [Just an outsider’s observation] You are the one who seems to have issues.

    Is provoking other people the best you can offer?


  144. Janus says:

    142. It’s nice that you have an outlet. Too fast for me though. My hockey days started when I was in kindergarten and ended at about 6th grade. Didn’t want to spend my summers inside a rink. Try rugby sometime if you really want a physical challenge. There is no ‘gliding’ to catch a breath.

  145. leftwing says:

    Tenure for teachers K-12 is ridiculous.

    The argument put forth is to shield teachers from improper influences wrought by parents through administrators.

    Another ‘welcome to the real world’ for the education establishment.

    I lost six figures of bonus one year because I had to take on my deal team some HBS MBA chimpanzee who couldn’t work an HP12C and had the social skill set of a Sacha Baron Cohen character. That little idiot was so stupid and offensive he personally blew up a transaction that was ours to lose. Why was he on my team? Daddy was a huge client of the Real Estate Group, and they were agile enough to use a ‘conflict’ argument to keep the spoiled prick out of their department so senior management dropped him on me.

    Outside pressure and influence – the real world, deal with it.

  146. Janus says:

    146. Doctor, please.

  147. still_looking says:

    149, Janus

    Are you requesting one? May I suggest a particular specialty for you?

    While you are entitled to your opinion, your attacks are becoming troll-ish.



  148. Janus says:

    I like to test myself and my beliefs through conflict. It is only in conflict and under duress that people show their true intentions. Truth has always been a very enticing element in my intellect.

  149. Unexpected HEHEHE says:


    I went to Catholic school and public school. Nuns did not mess around. In addition to the rulers there was also the psychological games. I remember anytime a kid in my fifth grade class put a finger or pen anywhere near their mouths this nun would take a baby teether out of her desk and make the kid stand in front of the class with it in his/her mouth: “Little baby can’t keep his/her hands out of their mouth. Here’s a teether for little baby (enter name). Stand up in front of the room and show everybody what a good baby looks like with a teether in their mouth instead of their finger/pen”. Classmate of mine told her she was crazy once. It was 30 years ago and I think he still might have the smack mark on his face.

  150. Janus says:

    And with that I must take my leave.

  151. leftwing says:

    Clot, 39.

    I live in a similar Blue Ribbon district with a middle schooler.

    Did a fun little exercise with my kid’s essay. First one of this year, I watched to make sure he was processing it (did you do a first draft, edit, review subsequent drafts, check for grammar and construct). I did not read any of them except the final version he was handing in. He’s an A student, but it sucked. Discussed with my wife whether we work with him or let it go. Decided to let him hand it in as is for two reasons, he needs to learn to stand on his own and I wanted to see what the new teacher would grade it.

    He got a 76. He was livid, I couldn’t have been happier.

    I have no problems with our individual teachers (most of them at least, as in any large collection of people there are the good and the bad).

    The union is another story.

  152. Anon E. Moose says:

    jj [130];

    “Previously Sold in 2008 for $2,700,000”

    That’s a hell of a premium just to be in “Montauk”. Put that same place the same distance from a 20-acre lake upstate and its $350,000 — tops.

    “all prospective bidders must present a certified check in the amount of $150,000”

    Do I get change?

  153. A.West says:

    Teachers should be paid according to supply and demand, like everyone else. The government and teachers unions have conspired to prevent this from happening.
    The government conspires to:
    1)reduce the threat of new entrants into K-12 education
    2) virtually eliminate the competition between local providers of K-12 education services.
    3)license and increase the cost of meeting the requirements for being a teacher and thus restrict the available number of teachers
    4)heavily regulate all providers of K-12 education, protecting the incumbent providers of education
    5) demand payment from everyone, regardless of their use of or satisfaction with government run K-12 education services provided.
    6) hire enough education bureaucracy voters within a small area to ensure that teachers, along with other public union members, represent a highly motivated voting block within a relatively uninterested voting population. (i.e. each vote influences 100% of the public sector employee voter’s income, while each vote represents typically 10% or less of the non public sector employee’s income (via property taxes vs services rendered).
    In NJ, public sector employees have begun to stretch the limits of the private sector voter’s disinterest, as the percentage of their incomes effected continues to rise.

    Here’s the basic framework for understanding how it happens:
    Public choice theory is often used to explain how political decision-making results in outcomes that conflict with the preferences of the general public. For example, many advocacy group and pork barrel projects are not the desire of the overall democracy. However, it makes sense for politicians to support these projects. It may make them feel powerful and important. It can also benefit them financially by opening the door to future wealth as lobbyists. The project may be of interest to the politician’s local constituency, increasing district votes or campaign contributions. The politician pays little or no cost to gain these benefits, as he is spending public money. Special-interest lobbyists are also behaving rationally. They can gain government favors worth millions or billions for relatively small investments. They face a risk of losing out to their competitors if they don’t seek these favors. The taxpayer is also behaving rationally. The cost of defeating any one government give-away is very high, while the benefits to the individual taxpayer are very small. Each citizen pays only a few pennies or a few dollars for any given government favor, while the costs of ending that favor would be many times higher. Everyone involved has rational incentives to do exactly what they’re doing, even though the desire of the general constituency is opposite. (It is notable that the political system considered here is very much that of the United States, with “pork” a main aim of individual legislators; in countries such as Britain with strong party systems the issues would differ somewhat.) Costs are diffused, while benefits are concentrated. The voices of vocal minorities with much to gain are heard over those of indifferent majorities with little to lose.

  154. Anon E. Moose says:

    Hyde [53];

    Works for me. Lets drink on it.

  155. RU says:

    The biggest expense townships face is the cost of healthcare for public employees. All public employees should be required to pay a far larger percentage than 1.5% of their salary. It should be a percentage (at least 25%) of the cost of the health plan. The pension system needs to be changed. It is unsustainable. I don’t think it should be changed for current participants but every new hire starting today should be in a 401k type of pension. Even better, let the unions run their pension and see how long some of the idiots that union presidents remain in power.
    As far as the salary, I can’t agree that teachers are overpaid. I have a few family members who have been teachers for about 7 years and they’re just reaching $50k now. It’s the bloated administration that eats up a lot of the money. Most of the teachers hate the size of the management and amounts they’re paid but can’t say anything because it would be career suicide. It’s just way too political in every town. That’s why I think more schools need to be regionalized.

  156. Juice Box says:

    At least Janus here can take it as well as give it. I have got loads of NJ teachers in my family. All were on Facebook wishing the FAT GUY our Governor had a coronary. Don’t get me wrong they are all nice people but if you mess with their dream of summers off and early retirement they all seem to have a psychotic break.

    I don’t bring up the budget issues and unfunded liabilities of government at family gatherings for fear I would get knifed while in line to get some jumbo shrimp and cheese at Cocktail Hour.

  157. Libtard and the City says:

    Way to go leftwing. I am underwhelmed by my son’s work so far. He heads into kindergarten as a first grade level reader, he knows addition, subtraction, can write in upper and lowercase, etc.

    He brings home assignments (I sh1t you not) that require him to trace lines and wavy curves. He has colored in a few objects as well. Last week they focused on colors. We asked his teacher if he can join the accelerated reader program. She says that’s for 1st graders and up. Will continue to teach him at home with workbooks to keep him motivated. His teacher has been teaching for 41 years. And you wonder why I get angry. His teacher makes well over $100,000 per year with no advanced degrees.

  158. Juice Box says:

    Grim #159 UnMOD please!

  159. Mr Hyde says:

    Moose 53


  160. Shore Guy says:

    “should be required to pay a far larger percentage than 1.5% of their salary. It should be a percentage (at least 25%) of the cost of the health plan”

    Any government in NJ can achieve this with assertive bargaining. Nothing will change at the negotiating table until people demand it of the managerds they have hired to run things for them.

  161. d2b says:

    It’s easy for me to track the performance of my kid against milestones of when I was his age. I remember being introduced to terms in third grade that he is learning today in the fifth grade. They get weekly homework assignments and there is flexibility built in because they all seem to have full after-school schedules.

    He is not learning as much. There seems to never be any mention of anything from the sciences or history. There also seems to be an abundance of standardized tests and teachers are instructed to teach the test.

    For what it’s worth, I’m not working as hard as the generation before me. Maybe it’s a sign of the times.

    My cousins are teachers. They do it because they get summers off, it’s a stable job, and they like the kids (in that order). You can’t do the job if you don’t like kids. One switched from sixth grade catholic to eighth grade public. She was smacked down by the principal for introducing books to the students from her old classes that were too difficult for her new kids to handle.

  162. freedy says:

    Cresskill was to stupid to get the overtime money upfront from the DNC ,now the chase is on . Morons

  163. Mr Hyde says:

    Thats cheers to moose at 157

  164. chicagofinance says:

    Dude….we must meet for beers……

    148.leftwing says:
    October 8, 2010 at 10:32 am
    Tenure for teachers K-12 is ridiculous.

    The argument put forth is to shield teachers from improper influences wrought by parents through administrators.

    Another ‘welcome to the real world’ for the education establishment.

    I lost six figures of bonus one year because I had to take on my deal team some HBS MBA chimpanzee who couldn’t work an HP12C and had the social skill set of a Sacha Baron Cohen character. That little idiot was so stupid and offensive he personally blew up a transaction that was ours to lose. Why was he on my team? Daddy was a huge client of the Real Estate Group, and they were agile enough to use a ‘conflict’ argument to keep the spoiled prick out of their department so senior management dropped him on me.

    Outside pressure and influence – the real world, deal with it.

  165. homeboken says:

    Lib – What rink does your league utilized? Game times/days? Might be interested.

    Age min/max?

  166. chicagofinance says:

    I have a tombstone on my wall from my favorite bond deal at AT&T. We issued a 5, 10 and a 30. Both the 5 & 10 have matured…..I am so old……

  167. RU says:

    #163. That’s another problem with the current education system. Too much testing to “track” the students progress. I believe with NJ ASK kids are tested every year. While this may sound great in theory, it actually hampers any learning. Teachers are pressured to bring up test scores so now all they do is teach the test. I think they used to just test every four years when I was in school. Teachers were given the ability to actually teach (of course, like in every profession, some were terrible).

  168. JJ says:

    OLR Baby, Our Lady of Refuge, Bainbridge was where the higher class poor people lived.

    Juice Box says:
    October 8, 2010 at 10:28 am

    JJ- I survived Catholic School in the Bronx as well St. Ann’s on BainBridge Ave. We had a few Nuns there that could make you pee in your pants on command. All they had to do was waive the ruler around a bit.

    I went back there recently to pick up a baptismal certificate for a cousin who was getting married out of the country, it sent shivers down my spine as I walked through the door, I almost peed in my pants again!

  169. Libtard and the City says:

    Chi…I have a three-year CD on my wall that paid 14% interest.


    HNA hockey. Lot’s of info on their website. Minimum age is 18, no maximum. D level, one up from beginner, although we have some C level guys on the team. Rinks are, mainly South Mountain, Mennen, Hackensack with a little Floyd Hall, occasional Bayonne. Game times are usually Sunday night, but occasionally Mon-Thurs. One game per week usually and times run from 8pm to about 10:30pm for start times. It’s the most professionally run league I’ve ever played in. Non-checking, for the most part. Great team that’s been together for ten years. Season runs October through April and playoffs are free as are North American Championships in Toronto if you finish in 1st (sometimes 2nd too if it’s close). Great bunch of guys, but our goalie is terrible and a freak. He has a Chico Resch fetish that is disturbing.

  170. sas3 says:


    Another ‘welcome to the real world’ for the education establishment.

    Why was he on my team? Daddy was a huge client of the Real Estate Group, and they were agile enough to use a ‘conflict’ argument to keep the spoiled prick out of their department so senior management dropped him on me. Outside pressure and influence – the real world, deal with it.”

    So, your solution to outside pressure (I’d say corruption) is “bend over and take it like a man”?

    If that is the path we go, I am sure I can top your story with some stories from reasonably large colleges in India — starting with students beating the cr@p out of teachers if they fail them in any class or when the students go on strike! Or, national level exam papers leaked a day before — and sometimes published in newspapers too, Or, engineers that get killed in ambushes if they don’t clear some major construction projects. Where do you say, it is not OK?

  171. homeboken says:

    BofA halts foreclosures in all 50 states.

    This ought to work itself out just fine.

  172. Libtard and the City says:


  173. sas3 says:

    RU #169…

    Regular testing and constant pressure builds up the great qualities that employers desire. Insecurity, a general willingness to do whatever it takes to please the boss, focus solely on the next deadline/quarter, and never raise any big picture issues.

    Such pressure will also institutionalize them and ensure that they don’t get tempted to join (or worse, form) evil employee unions when they grow up!

  174. JJ says:

    You think that is bad, first IPO I worked on was Touchstone, EF Hutton movie making IPO that did all the Nick Nolte/Bette Middler/Shelly Long movies of the day. Down and out in Beverly Hills, Money Pitt etc. They were set up in an LLP type of way where each movie was a new IPO, damm investments paid like 40% a year for years after their 1986-1989 issuance. But guess this in 2000 the investments soared again. In 1986 future royalties never thought of things like Blockbuster, Netflix, Starz, On-demand, Redbox, video downloads and never excluded that crap. Damm Disney had to do a tender offer to buy back the LLPs after 15 years of paying like 40% a year.

    Had to be under 30, over six feet tall, in good health and male to work on an IPO back then.

    That is what I was told that day of my first IPO and when the 20 of us gathered to do it we found out why.

    chicagofinance says:
    October 8, 2010 at 11:12 am

    I have a tombstone on my wall from my favorite bond deal at AT&T. We issued a 5, 10 and a 30. Both the 5 & 10 have matured…..I am so old……

  175. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    Just had to come back with this one. I was wondering why no one in MSM, even in the financial press, had caught on to this point. The anti-banking activists have been trying to get it for years, and greater control over banking will move it closer to reality.

    And which vehicle will the Feds use to implement these changes? Does anyone really think that Citi is selling off businesses and turning itself into a generic, less profitable bank that is poised to become the lender of last resort to the LMI communities because it makes good business sense?

    Back to the daddy grind. Have to get the baby to nap before my client conference call (and stay asleep during it).

  176. JJ says:

    Big deal in early 1999 government guranteed bonds were paying up to 40%, they were called AIG, Citigroup and GMAC bonds.

    Libtard and the City says:
    October 8, 2010 at 11:21 am

    Chi…I have a three-year CD on my wall that paid 14% interest.

  177. RU says:

    sas3: Yeah but the pressure is on the teachers and not the students. I never felt any pressure taking any of the tests in grammar school. The SAT’s were the only one. The result of all the testing is that now teachers spend all their time teaching the test. I’m not saying there shouldn’t be any pressure on teachers to perform but just no so robotic.

  178. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [166] chifi

    I would never hire anyone that went to school in 02138. All brains and no smarts. The HLS types I knew were largely intelligent, well-read, and clueless about how things really were. In law school, we used to say “How can you tell the opposing counsel is an HLS grad? He is asking for directions to the courtroom.” Or “what do you call an HLS grad in court? Loser.”

    At least the flameouts were spectacular, and frequent enough to be a constant source of entertainment.

  179. stan says:

    Essex- those numbers are correct. I have yet to meet any teacher making 57k a year after ten years of service. Add in masters and they are there easily.

    Don’t know about newark and other urban areas, but the 80-100k is the norm with relatives and buddies I know.

    And 80k is a great wage, anywhere, especially for someone mid thirties. Add in benefits and the days off and anyone who argues that its not a great gig is clueless or not being honest.

    The teachers that hustle and add on additional summer work and drivrs ed coaching etc can only add to those base numbers.

  180. Juice Box says:

    re #175 – $1 trillion in outstanding non-agency mortgages in REMICs under scrutiny by private MBS investors and another $5 trillion or so at Fannie and Freddie with them attempting to claw back a few hundred billion in the last year for bad loans and no paperwork to be found.

    A reasonable estimate of those mortgage notes that might be compromised because of the chain of custody was broken could be 20%-50%.

    We’re going to need that massive new Resolution Authority to unwind this mess.

    In the interim not paying your mortgage is becoming the new black since nobody can or will foreclose.

  181. dan says:

    Maybe the teachers aren’t overpaid, maybe. But aside from those pensions and future health benefits, do I really have to pay for all those multi-millions worth of buildings and the union contracts we hire to maintain them. Isn’t it time we take public schools online somehow. I’d suggest privatizing schools but due to the huge success of some of our larger school systems, I’m sure their performances would be a distant second to the stellar results we get now.

  182. Al Gore says:



    Re: public schools. Look at the product vs cost. Ill simplify it.

    If X= dumb publicly educated, government dependent moron.
    If Y= student of helicopter parents, vaccines, video games, and tv
    Z= product.

    So X + Y = Z
    Dumb, publicly educated , government dependent moron teaching students of helicopter parents, vaccines, video games, and tv = garbage.

    Conclusion: Garbage in = Garbage out.

    Not my problem except its my money thats being wasted. No its everyones problem.

    Solution: Get rid of the garbage.

    Bye Bye public education

  183. A.West says:

    What’s wrong with “teaching to the test” if the test is a good measure of the things that kids should be learning, including logical thought? Maybe the problem is that the teachers haven’t put together a good teaching plan that would teach these things in an interesting and memorable way.

    What are the teachers supposed to be doing, if not teaching things that you’ll want your kids to know how to do? What’s wrong with testing whether kids know how to read, write, do math, know facts about history, can spot countries and states on the map, know the structure of govt, etc.

    I think the problem may be with the quality of the tests, and what they cover.

  184. Libtard and the City says:

    But the goal is not to battle between private sector and public sector. The public sector must wage their own battle with their union that would rather see 1 teacher employed with iron-clad benefits rather than 100 teachers employed with aluminum-class benefits. The direction that the union has taken so far is bad for the union (less union dues taken in), bad for the taxpayer (less services due to fewer employees), and bad for the union members who have a greater likelihood of being terminated. And I’m pro-union (in theory).

  185. leftwing says:

    Chi, I’ll hit GTG soon.

    I remember the fanfare when private equity first crossed the threshold of a $1B fund. No one thought it could be done or effectively invested. Huge numbers back then. Warburg, Pincus I think….

  186. Janus says:

    It’s nice that private industries like banking don’t require any public infusions of cash to survive.

  187. Janus says:

    Or that places like Catholic schools are safe havens for children.

  188. Janus says:

    I could go on, but why.

  189. Al Gore says:



    Re: Dyfus.

    Apparently a newborn baby was snatched from the parents because the father was a member of Oathkeepers.

    “Government Agents Seize Oath Keeper’s New Born From Hospital

    New Hampshire, Wed. Oct. 6th, 2010

    Last Night John Irish & Stephanie Janvrin had their new born baby girl taken away by government officials because of their involvement with Oath Keepers, a non violent constitutional organization. According to Irish, The Director of Security and the Head Nurse of the Hospital said “we want the pediatrician to check the baby in the nursery so that you can go home.” The baby was wheeled out in the bassinet under the protest of Irish. Irish followed them out a took note of 3-4 men wearing suits with detective badges as well as 3 police officers.

    The Division of Family Child Services proceeded to pat down John and inform the parents they would be taking the daughter. “They Stole our Child” says John Irish. An Affidavit was produced that claimed an affiliation with a militia called Oath Keepers. Irish claims Oath Keepers is a non violent organization. John and Stephanie were able to spend a few minutes with their daughter and were forced to leave. A security officer escorted the two out of the hospital.”

    Affadavit. ““The Division became aware and confirmed that Mr. Irish associated with a militia known as “Oath Keepers”, and had purchased several different types of weap…ons including a rifle, handgun and a taser.”

  190. Libtard and the City says:

    I think if you teach critical thought, the test scores will go up more than if you teach to the test. Variety is the spice of life and keeps most kids interested and motivated. Teaching to a test does not and is inefficient. The problem is, you need motivated teachers to teach this way. Tenure and a lack of any type of performance-based compensation ensures that critical thought will rarely occur except with teachers who are really in it for the kids. Another reason the unions are killing education in this country.

  191. Unexpected HEHEHE says:

    Jobs report horrible -market up – maybe they are expecting QE3 already:)

  192. leftwing says:

    “So, your solution to outside pressure (I’d say corruption) is bend over and take it like a man? ”

    Sastry. No, my point is life is more complex as we mature and decisions more difficult and nuanced. Somehow the teachers’ unions think their employees deserve a pass on having to deal with these situations.

    My personal response in that one (of many) situations we have all faced? It wasn’t worth blowing myself up over this kid so I did damage control on the specific client, ringfenced myself from the kid for the future (having already ‘done my time’), and banked the political capital for future use for being a team player.

    Back to K-12 tenure, though. Of course, the argument for tenure insulating teachers from influence is a red herring. The union just wants tenure as it makes the union more powerful.

    Ironic, if it weren’t so sad, that the union uses protecting teachers from influence as a goal to gain more influence itself.

  193. Anon E. Moose says:

    Al Gore [192];

    New Hampshire, huh? “Live Free or Die”?

  194. JJ says:

    Ok, who has been reporting a “melt-up” since early September. Bonds are dead, for new money anyhow. Money will first flow into equities from insitutional people, then retail will chase hot money then it will flow to equity options so people can catch up on their earlier missed gains and then a few years from now another BOOM.

    Problem is you have too many thermometers on this site and not enough thermostats.

    Unexpected HEHEHE says:
    October 8, 2010 at 12:18 pm

    Jobs report horrible -market up – maybe they are expecting QE3 already:)

  195. JJ says:

    I remember so long ago that when we lost a billion one year it actually ment something. I also remember the excitement when I got my first calculator that could go to one trillion. Used to get within a few billions in a recon and hit killarney rose for a beet. Those were the days.

    leftwing says:
    October 8, 2010 at 12:04 pm

    Chi, I’ll hit GTG soon.

    I remember the fanfare when private equity first crossed the threshold of a $1B fund. No one thought it could be done or effectively invested. Huge numbers back then. Warburg, Pincus I think….

  196. JJ says:

    What Does Melt Up Mean?

    A dramatic and unexpected improvement in the investment performance of an asset class driven partly by a stampede of investors who don’t want to miss out on its rise rather than by fundamental improvements in the economy. Gains created by a melt up are considered an unreliable indication of the direction the market is ultimately headed, and melt ups often precede melt downs.

  197. Unexpected HEHEHE says:


    You crazy my friend. You crazy.

  198. Mr Wantanapolous says:

    “Jobs report horrible -market up – maybe they are expecting QE3 already:)”


    Bad economic report = positive for stocks. It’s one giant foundation of QE. Take QE away and watch out for fat fingers.

  199. hughesrep says:


    My wife is on the 10th year pay scale in in her district at about 56K. She’s only been there 6 years, but they gave her credit for the first four years as a teacher in other districts. I think first year teachers in her district start in the low 30’s? I haven’t looked at her handbook in a few years.

    She gets a big boost from about 62 to 100K in year 13. If it wasn’ t for that increase and the health beneifts she’d stay at home now with our two kids. It’s not even close.

    Cut the pay and bennies and you lose the teachers in there mid 20’s and early 30’s (the hot ones John!) as soon as they have a kid. Daycare costs make it unaffordable to be a teacher for about five years. How many would go back?

    Teachers also have a 401K like scam, called a 403b I think. I’ve finally got her convinced her pension is DOA.

  200. Double Down says:

    Critics say Christie’s decision to scrap Hudson tunnel project will cost N.J. homeowners, commuters jobs

    TRENTON — Commuter trains so packed that passengers eye overhead racks as a tempting refuge from the crush; more cars on the road, making for longer traffic delays and dirtier air; billions of dollars in home value lost to suburbs more accessible to Manhattan and therefore more marketable; continued crushing property tax burdens; fewer income tax dollars in state coffers and an all-around grim long-term economic outlook for the state.

    It is a doomsday scenario painted by critics of Gov. Chris Christie’s decision to scrap construction of the trans-Hudson rail tunnel that had been planned by New Jersey Transit and approved under the former governor Christie unseated. Christie said he was acting on the recommendation of state transportation officials based on projections that the project, originally estimated to cost $8.7 billion, could top $14 billion, with New Jersey liable for the overruns in addition to the $2.7 billion the state had originally committed to the project under former Gov. Jon Corzine.

  201. Mr Wantanapolous says:

    “The dollar will embark on a sharp decline over the next 12 months, Goldman Sachs forecast on Wednesday, as policy makers in Washington look poised to press the trigger on another round of printing money.”

    Finally received my answer regarding green shoots.

    Hard to figure out if GS is short or long?

  202. chicagofinance says:

    Fcuking Killarney Rose…….I was 19 with my older brother and his buddies we hit the Rose. He had four or five Long Island Iced Teas. I will always remember hitting the Burger King on Fulton near the Seaport afterwards… brother had a whopper and then threw up in the janitor’s mop bucket thing….I don’t think the janitor noticed when he came off break and cleaned (i.e. the actions associated with cleaning) the other side of the restaurant……I almost wet my pants laughing so hard…..

    198.JJ says:
    October 8, 2010 at 12:25 pm
    Used to get within a few billions in a recon and hit killarney rose for a beet. Those were the days.

  203. Mr Wantanapolous says:

    U-6- 17.1%

    The number of persons employed part time for economic reasons (sometimes referred to as involuntary part-time workers) rose by 612,000 over the month to 9.5 million. Over the past 2 months, the number of such workers has increased by 943,000. These individuals were working part time because their hours had been cut back or because they were unable to find a full-time job.

  204. stan says:

    Thx for the clarification hughes rep. So the bump to 100K is in year 13. I was off a bit, but mid 30’s 100k is a fine wage, for anyone. It truly is.

    And to the argument that its tough for a single family to run on 85k or 100k or whatever. That holds true for everyone.

    Not getting that argument.

    JJ example, two teachers, 37 yrs old, two kids 170-200k iin income, retire at 55 summer off. Watch the kids all summer, no camp to pay for.

    Whoever says its not a good gig is out of their mind. Do its a struggle in the early years, BFD,so is every other job. Whoa is me

  205. chicagofinance says:

    From the Christies cancels ARC tunnel…..WTF is this crap???? Is Pranger kidding? Here arguments are #1 we will be able to raise property taxes in the future and #2 Christie is “stuck” on the message we cannot spend money we don’t have…….

    But Neysa Pranger, a spokeswoman for the Regional Plan Association, said Christie’s decision “casts a dark shadow over the economic future of New Jersey.” Canceling the project will effectively cost New Jersey homeowners $18 billion dollars. That’s how much home values would have increased as a result of the tunnel’s construction, according to a study by the planning association, based on the impact of three previous rail projects. The study found that the value of homes within a half mile of a rail station would have increased by $29,000, while homes within two miles would have appreciate by $19,000.

    “When you’re talking about property values, you’re talking about creating a larger tax base, and a larger tax base means you don’t have to raise property tax rates,” Pranger said. “I feel like everybody knows and understands the merits of the project. I think the governor even understands the merits. It’s just that he’s stuck on this one very popular message that he’s not going to spend any more money than he has.”

  206. Unexpected HEHEHE says:


    So there is expectations QE2 is coming in Novemeber but how is that not baked into the cake? Last March 2009 was unexpected and the market shot up. This go around the market has already reacted. Now if they don’t do it you have a stock market collapse and even if they do it you have a major sell the news event. If their move is solely to prop up asset prices at this point I don’t see how there is that much more upside in stocks unless they announce QE on a major scale, like $5T or something crazy.

  207. yo'me says:

    JJ- I survived Catholic School in the Bronx as well St. Ann’s on BainBridge Ave. We had a few Nuns there that could make you pee in your pants on command. All they had to do was waive the ruler around a bit.

    Bosconian here! Don Bosco,grew up with Salesian priest.No molestation.Laugh,be happy but don’t commit sin.

  208. NJGator says:

    Clot or someone else with GSMLS access – Can you let me know if 2808711 (21 Lorraine/Glen Ridge) is short? It’s listed for $429,000, but sold for $515,000 in 2005.

  209. NJGator says:

    Janus 98 – New caf. Ha ha. That is so 1999.

  210. Janus says:

    OK, so picture this. You got about 23 kids in a school classroom. 3 of them are probably classified, but somehow still in the regular classroom. Two of them are brilliant kids and obviously bored by the ‘NCLB’ curriculum that seeks to average out the work and teach to several different ‘capacities’. One of the kids is ADHD and constantly in motion. At some point each kid in this room will be evaluated and then your pay, if you are a real go-getter, might be increased if you are able to juggle these various IQs and the overall readiness. Four of these kids have had a poptart for breakfast and something similar the night before. One of the kid’s mom’s smoked something heinous during the prenatal years and the kid simply cannot understand basic instructions. Oh, now that sounds like a dream job. All that and summers off! Neato.

  211. Unexpected HEHEHE says:


    Things are tough all over; get over yourself or get a different job.

  212. Mr Wantanapolous says:

    He [211],

    Buy the rumor sell the news; then hope for more bad news. Wash, rinse, repeat. The market doesn’t even smell an end to QE. Don’t underestimate the force of a falling greenback. That is, until the currency markets blow up the world.

  213. RU says:

    #216: Janus-I remember having 30 kids in my class with all different levels of ability to learn. Nothings changed in the 20+ years I’ve been out of school except teachers clamoring for smaller class size. I believe I’m doing well in spite of that class room environment. The biggest difference is that my parents would kick my a** if I came home with anything less than a B. If the parents don’t care and the student doesn’t care then it shouldn’t be the school districts responsibility to make them eligible for Harvard. Like the quote in Caddyshack “the world needs ditch diggers too”

  214. JJ says:

    Janus picture this Bronx in the 1960s 50 kids in a class all immigrants from Europe where school ends in the 8th grade, lots of parents Italians etc spoke hardly any english. Parents could not help with homework as they had 4-7 kids in a two bedroom apt. Kids had no place to study as not even one desk in apartment and you were lucky to find a place on the floor where you were not being stepped on, no computers, class aids, special ed, languges, heck barely heat somedays in winter. Yet those Nuns educated the leaders of today who run multimillion dollar companies, doctors, lawyers, govenors and even Regis Philburn. Todays teachers could not handle one day in the Bronx 40 years ago.

    I never paid attention in class, got poor grades, caused trouble, hated teachers, they hated me and I doubt I learned anything. Now they love me, heck my old college had me back as a guest lecturer, gives me great Basketball tickets and wants me involved. Why because I have a good job, therefore the teachers are taking credit.

    Heck the year I graduated HS we had two people who made it big in TV and movies. One stared in a major motion picture the other was featured on Americas Most Wanted for kidnapping and sodomy. Guess which one is mentioned on the Alumni page of my HS?

  215. Janus says:

    217. You are still thinking it is “me” that I refer to. Full disclosure. I love my work and look forward to mondays. Not everything online is a personal rant.

  216. Mr Wantanapolous says:


    Hire Nurse Ratched. Sounds like a trading desk.

  217. Janus says:

    I probably had three decent teachers in my career. A few more in college. (State School btw) and grad school was a bit better. But not much. School is a vehicle …. a piece of paper if you will — but a key one for most. I learned more from my dad than anyone else I met. I was ‘lucky’ I guess.

  218. Janus says:

    That being said, socialization is key in the schools. Knowing how to interact is important. Going to parties. Being cool. All part of American life that seems to build us up for a decent future.

  219. Mr Wantanapolous says:

    I learned from the bookie; the house always wins.

  220. Janus says:

    Never was a betting man. Spent my spare change on women, guitars, and cars. It paid off in spades.

  221. Janus says:

    220. You and I have more in common besides good taste in cars.

  222. sas3 says:

    “Yet those Nuns educated the leaders of today who run multimillion dollar companies, doctors, lawyers, govenors and even Regis Philburn.”

    I am sure we all feel that we belong to the greatest generation, but some of our kids will grow up to be all that, and may be even a bit more. As long as schooling doesn’t excessively interfere with education, the kids are safe!


  223. Mr Wantanapolous says:

    “Never was a betting man.”

    Nor was I; only speculate.

  224. Juice Box says:

    Gotta love those folks in Iceland, they have been protesting nonstop and chasing the elected officials in the streets and now this.

    Iceland’s banks may come under pressure to forgive about $2 billion in mortgage debt after protests this week prompted the government to consider proposals from the island’s homeowner protection group.

  225. JJ says:

    RU are grades even important anymore. Everybody gets into college anyhow. Also grades have a very poor connection to how smart you are.

    I read somewhere that 20 years out of college people with c averages have the highest income. They are most rounded, did sports, went bar hopping, hit spring breaks, had lots of friends, part time jobs, hobbies etc. They are interesting people who can multitask, its the A students, the boring no it alls that start off with best jobs but end up stagant in their career cause they are not fun to work with.

  226. JJ says:

    The nuns told me if you speculate too much you will go blind.

    Mr Wantanapolous says:
    October 8, 2010 at 1:57 pm

    “Never was a betting man.”

    Nor was I; only speculate.

  227. Unexpected HEHEHE says:

    Jones resigns as NSC chief, Donilon next director

    They are all fleeing the ship. If only Congress would do the same

  228. Mr Wantanapolous says:

    “The nuns told me if you speculate too much you will go blind.”

    Sister Rose told me if I didn’t take my eyes off Nancy’s buds, she would pull my eyes out.

  229. Mr Hyde says:

    Anyone see this on CNBS?

    Chris Whalen puts forward that the banks are suffering compressing interest income and that despite the claim of “excellent” margins the truth is that in absolute dollar value terms the income level is collapsing, several large banks will show stress in three to six months.

  230. Janus says:

    Grades, Credit Ratings….who really needs them. Just a number. It’s all about the cash baby.

  231. RU says:

    #231 JJ: Grades don’t matter in this world anymore. Every kid gets a trophy. Ban any games that might have a winner and loser. Everyone must win now. You’re right about the “C” students. It’s because they have the social skills that some “A” students lack. Of course it doesn’t fit everyone but you could finish the top of your class and be socially inept and those grades won’t do you one bit of good.

  232. Janus says:

    238. Or you receive some highly specialized training and attain some sort of credential that puts you in the “doesn’t matter” category as you are the one who can actually do the work. The world needs molecular physicists too.

  233. Janus says:

    39. Being a student….and being a thinker….and being a ‘doer’ are really very different animals….


    My daughter is a close to 4.0 student and engages in virtually no crystalline thought and has difficulty in breaking large academic tasks into manageable pieces. The really scary thing is, the colleges at which she’s interviewed (a couple more than once) actually view her as a potential top-tier student.

  234. Janus says:

    240. But seeing as though she is ‘your daughter’ she is probably a diamond in the rough and the schools see that. Perhaps her potential has not even emerged and her abilities will flourish in time.

  235. Anon E. Moose says:

    hugh [202];

    Yeah, still more evidence the teachers union throws the young’ns under the but in facor of the old crones — You have a workforce of predominantly women of child-bearing age and they get no paid maternity leave (NYC UFT)? I guess the tenured teachers don’t care much about that so its not worth bargaining for.

    Not that I think teachers are underpaid, but its pretty clear to me that the union is not responsive to a core need of a great many of its members.

  236. Mikeinwaiting says:

    Janus & Libtard mano A mano, Marcus of Queensbery rules of course.
    JJ I’m sure you’ll pay a good price for the best seats.
    Kind of hot around here today.

  237. Mr Hyde says:


    How about them Corn, Wheat, Oats, and Soybeans!!!!

  238. Wag says:

    Mike (243) – A testy day on the blog. We need to drag Ket to Krogh’s, the boy is in need of a good stiff drink. Hell, so am I.

  239. Mikeinwaiting says:

    Wag I’m in Ket ket ket………..

  240. Mr Wantanapolous says:

    Hyde [245],


  241. Juice Box says:

    re: #247 Want – there hasn’t been deflation in any country in over 60 years! Who does the Fed think they are fooling?

  242. hughesrep says:


    IJanus & Libtard mano A mano

  243. 1987 Condo Buyer says:

    #208..boy is my wife in wrong district. 6th year making $53,500 with a Masters. Years 15 gets her to around $75,000. Mid career change…Actuarial Degree//teaches High School Math.

  244. Mr Hyde says:

    Wag 245

    I agree. Life is very busy at the moment, let me see whats going on and i will email you guys

  245. Janus says:

    Mike I wouldn’t stand a chance. Stu’s not just tough, he’s internet tough….

  246. Mikeinwaiting says:

    BC 246 Don’t mind the man behind the curtain, no inflation here.

  247. Juice Box says:

    I have loads of NJ teachers in my family. All were on Facebook wishing the FAT GUY our Governor had a coronary. Don’t get me wrong they are all nice people but if you mess with their dream of summers off and early retirement they all seem to have a mental break. I doubt any of them could really hack it in the Corporate world for too long.

    I never bring up the school budget issues and unfunded liabilities of government at any family gatherings for fear I would get stabbed while inline to get some jumbo shrimp and cheese at cocktail hour.

  248. JJ says:

    In Great Neck the highly specialized skill sets are a women who doesn’t think Kooking, Kleeing and Fuking are three cities in China.

    Janus says:
    October 8, 2010 at 2:17 pm

    238. Or you receive some highly specialized training and attain some sort of credential that puts you in the “doesn’t matter” category as you are the one who can actually do the work. The world needs molecular physicists too.

  249. Mr Hyde says:


    No one in your debate today has claimed they have a bigger wang then you do. The only poster who even comes close to being an internet tough guy is RE101 and Clot, but clot is actually crazy enough to follow through :)

    If you want to troll at least be creative about it.

  250. JJ says:

    Mike; true story, sitting in my row one seats one day and a buddy I invited to game turns around to look behind us and then turns and says to me, there is a word for people who sit in row two and it is called loser.

    Funny how even in Upper Deck corner the guy in row 26 wishes in was in row 25 etc. etc. all the way down to the guy stradling the 50 yard line row one on the home teams side. That guy has 82,500 people wishing they were him each game. I don’t know who he is but I hate him.

    Mikeinwaiting says:
    October 8, 2010 at 2:27 pm

    Janus & Libtard mano A mano, Marcus of Queensbery rules of course.
    JJ I’m sure you’ll pay a good price for the best seats.

  251. Mr Hyde says:


    I want to live in your world! Who do i see to get in?

  252. prtraders2000 says:

    @230 Imagine if it read like this about the US i/o Iceland.

    Obama told lawmakers yesterday that no families should lose their homes because of unserviceable debt, adding that his government will contact about 200,000 households at risk of foreclosure this month to try to prevent their homes being auctioned off.

  253. Janus says:

    256. Read the thread again..this time for comprehension.

  254. Mikeinwaiting says:

    Everybody pour a cocktail of choice, or take a blue one.

  255. Janus says:

    256. You assume a lot. That is the mark of someone with whom my conversations are usually very short.

  256. Mikeinwaiting says:

    oops in mode,Everybody pour a c**ktail of choice, or take a blue one.

  257. Mr Wantanapolous says:

    “Who does the Fed think they are fooling?”


    This will go down as the greatest plundering of all time.

    Bergabe is powerless in creating demand and has zero chance of supporting housing/asset prices. However, like he missed the housing/credit bubble, he has no clue what he is currently creating. They can focus 100% of their attention on the whore rate. In the meantime, he is pumping up all the wrong sectors.

    He is inducing the early stages of currency wars which will lead to trade conflicts and protectionism. He will eventually blow up the worlds markets. Then again, that’s the only purpose of the fed; creating bubbles and busts.

    We need to get 50.5’s bulldozer and take it right to Bergabe. However, let’s wait until gold is over 2,500.

  258. Mikeinwaiting says:

    JJ the most interesting man in the world.

  259. Poltroon says:

    sx (86)-

    FDR was the screaming soci@list tool who started most of the momentum of all the crazy gubmint shit that has culminated in our complete Ponzi economy.

    He also got bailed out of fiscal and monetary decisions that nearly laid waste to the whole country by being able to crank up a war machine and wipe out the rest of the planet’s productive capacity.

  260. Poltroon says:

    To me, American financial history makes sense only when you look at the years 1929-2008 as one giant debt binge.

  261. Mikeinwaiting says:

    Man this is a tough room today.

  262. Poltroon says:

    Were I even more strident, I’d state that the era of the Great American Debt Binge started in 1913.

  263. Janus says:

    265. actually I see him more as an elitist who shat upon the elites he knew and did everything he could to put people back to work and build public works projects that we rely upon to the very day….Lincoln Tunnel….to name one nearby.

  264. Poltroon says:

    mike (267)-

    Get tough, or get out. :)

  265. Mr Wantanapolous says:


    The great rape began in 1913.

  266. Janus says:

    To be an American to me is to somehow manage to buy into what we might call the common good. To believe that hard work and honest effort can pay off. Of course, I might be somewhat delusional there.

  267. JJ says:

    Smart man, a world where the cars are German, the women are swedish, the steaks are from Peter Lugars, the beer is cold the wiskey aged, the cigars are cuban and the best seat in the house is always yours.

    Mr Hyde says:
    October 8, 2010 at 2:55 pm


    I want to live in your world! Who do i see to get in?

  268. Mr Hyde says:

    Sorry essex, I would debate you but i have decided to live in JJ’s world and its time for my secretary to provide hourly “services”….

  269. Janus says:

    I got a bunch of boys interested in the strat doom. It’s a peach…plus, I deliver…..

  270. Janus says:

    274. You sound busy. And tough too.

  271. Janus says:

    273. So you met my wife did you?

  272. nj escapee says:

    Our government at work. Looks like ATT, Verizon, Apple are Obama’s next victims.

    LaHood Weighs Urging Ban on All Driver Phone Use in Cars

  273. Libtard and the City says:


    with my limited knowledge of economics (I am one econometrics class away from a full minor) I am beginning to come to terms with what you have been saying for years. Although I can disprove it pretty easily as well. All I need to do is buy one ounce of gold and the commodity will drop like Jamil in the presence of Rush Limbaugh.

  274. JJ says:

    I actually never engage in that kind of debate, which is why I carry strings tied to rocks with me at all times.

    Mr Hyde says:
    October 8, 2010 at 2:52 pm


    No one in your debate today has claimed they have a bigger wang then you do. The only poster who even comes close to being an internet tough guy is RE101 and Clot, but clot is actually crazy enough to follow through :)

    If you want to troll at least be creative about it.

  275. JJ says:

    AHHH, those were the days. Don Draper I admire you.

    Mr Hyde says:
    October 8, 2010 at 3:07 pm

    Sorry essex, I would debate you but i have decided to live in JJ’s world and its time for my secretary to provide hourly “services”….

  276. Mr Hyde says:

    You suck as a troll, cant you at leas offer a creative insult? Hell, Re101 used to come up with some pretty creative buzz word use, even if it has gotten stale as of late.

  277. Janus says:

    280. I’ve never started a fight in my life. True Story. But, I have ended many.

  278. Libtard and the City says:

    Tough guy I do not claim to be. My picture is all over these here internets.

  279. Juice Box says:

    Nom – world’s first everything-proof underground luxury community

  280. Janus says:

    Hyde I thought your man was going to service you. What happened? That was quick.

  281. Libtard and the City says:

    Great. Janus is now suffering from Norris envy.

  282. Janus says:

    284. Well you called me a few names today. Where I am from that is fairly aggressive. And yes I have seen you. That is why I find it somewhat humorous.

  283. Janus says:

    I learned everything I know from Brett Favre.

  284. Mr Hyde says:

    I forgot the little blue pill :(

  285. Poltroon says:

    lib (109)-

    Wouldn’t you know it? My wife has a masters’ degree, ran one of the top design studios in NYC, is a successful and published illustrator, has a teaching certificate and has lectured at several colleges. She has applied multiple times for art teaching positions at all ages in our district and loses out every single time…to some connected retard who couldn’t supervise by-the-numbers oil painting.

  286. Wag says:

    Essex – Was finally able to make it up to the Philip Johnson Glass House. Incredible, simply.. incredible.

  287. Janus says:

    291. She’s gotta substitute first…that is the only way in…and then pray like hell one of the incumbents retires. Most of those jobs keep people in them for decades. Considering there is one per school. Turnover is nil.

  288. Janus says:

    Are we at ‘300’ yet?

  289. Janus says:

    292. Amazing? I thought I was fairly subdued today.

  290. Poltroon says:

    I volunteered to coach the local middle school’s soccer team for free this year. However, school “rules” mandate all coaches must be teachers…whether or not they have any knowledge of the sport. So this year’s soccer coach is some fat schmuck who wants the stipend check.

    However on this one, I got all the good players who were already playing on clubs not to go out for the school team…which is now 15 fat, lazy bags of blood who can’t run from one end of the field to another.

  291. Janus says:

    295. People tend to hear and see what they want to. It just reinforces their already pathetic worldview.

  292. Poltroon says:

    Janus (293)-

    She’s been subbing fulltime for four years. I left out that for the last two years, she applies for EVERY open teaching job.

    Snake eyes.

  293. Janus says:

    296. I cannot speak to that one. I lost interest in coaching years ago. Now I just play guitar and troll conservative blogs. Big Fun!

  294. Janus says:

    298. I could tell you stories my man. Another time. Perhaps over a drink. I call the chair against the wall though.

  295. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [192] Al,

    That is an extreme example, but one where liberals can use the power of the state to push their agenda. There is no other explanation because the child was a newborn, never allowed to go home with his/her parents.

    Here’s a tip for expecting conservatives and pro2A types: Hospitals typically give fathers forms and questionnaires to fill out. Lawyers will tell you that these are used as a device to establish paternity, and there is case law that holds if you admit paternity on that form, you are responsible for the child even if it later turns out it wasn’t yours. But, in PA at least, these forms also ask questions about your home, and when I first filled out these forms, I saw a question that asked about gun ownership. To me, that was a huge red flag. So I declined to answer it (don’t lie as they can use that against you, but you can always refuse to answer government questions. You can do the same–refuse to answer any questions from hospital staff about your home, politics, activities, etc. Most people don’t appreciate that any disclosure to hospital personnel is the same as disclosure to the police. They are agents of the state when it comes to children.

    Note again that this was not an abuse case because the child never went home with them. Rather, it was clearly retribution for political views under the very loose guise of child protection. Because the standard for removal is “imminent danger” they concluded that membership in an organization that is deemed a militia by the SPLC (a private, left wing group) is sufficient for imminent danger. If allowed to stand, that is an important erosion in constitutional protections.

    You may recall that New Jersey did something similar last year.,2933,479904,00.html
    In that case, DYFS said that the name wasn’t the issue, but there were no abuse allegations according to the police and the removal happened after the family came to notoriety in the press. Also removal can only happen because of “imminent danger” which was predicated solely on evidence developed after DYFS seized the children, searched the house and interviewed people. Amazingly, their case was so weak that the family beat DYFS in family court, but the Appellate Division reinstated the removal.

    Remember, you have a fundamental constitutional right to have children. You actually have very few rights to keep them.

  296. nj escapee says:

    For all you Red Elvises fans. they’ll be at the Green Parrot Oct 26, 27, 28.

  297. Mr Hyde says:

    I am considering picking up a used Toyota truck. Can anyone recommenced some good mechanics to give it a once over????

  298. Mr Hyde says:

    Nom, 301

    What happens if you refuse to fill out the form at all? Can they actually do anything about it?

  299. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [285] juice

    Doesn’t look like very much fun. And what is the point of “luxury” if you are in a bunker under Barstow? What are you gonna watch on the HDTV plasma if all the channels are nuked?

    No, my nompound won’t be hardened against radiation and overpressure, but nuclear armageddon isn’t high on the probability list. I’d probably provide for a panic room, perhaps an escape tunnel, and reasonably good security, but that is about it. Besides, for the same money, my nompound will be fun, someplace you want to go from time to time. Who goes to Barstow?

  300. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [304] hyde

    Aside from telling you to get off hospital property, not much that I am aware of.

    Gotta go. Baby is waking up. Luckily, I got my conference call in. Looking forward to that first invoice being paid. Won’t be much but the fact that it is depriving my old employer of much more is satisfying.

  301. Poltroon says:

    jj (220)-

    I’m waiting for you to tell us that you are both of these people rolled into one.

    “Heck the year I graduated HS we had two people who made it big in TV and movies. One stared in a major motion picture the other was featured on Americas Most Wanted for kidnapping and sodomy. Guess which one is mentioned on the Alumni page of my HS?”

  302. Poltroon says:

    sx (240)-

    Silly me. All this time, I thought going to school was about being a student and a thinker. My daughter has all the “doer” shit covered, but she didn’t get any of that from going to school. That part was hardwired at the factory.

    Do I get my taxes back?

    “Being a student….and being a thinker….and being a ‘doer’ are really very different animals….”

  303. Confused In NJ says:

    Ben may melt his printing press keeping the Wall Street Ponzi alive.

  304. Poltroon says:

    janus (241)-

    The colleges interested in my daughter are interested in her 70 mph shot. They could give a rat’s ass about “diamond in the rough”. She is one ACL sprain away from community college.

    Two are very “prestigious” private institutions that put every single freshman into a class that is essentially remedial English.

  305. Mr Wantanapolous says:


    I have no knowledge of economics. But, pretty good at sniffing out a con job.

  306. Poltroon says:

    juice (249)-

    I have a portfolio of leveraged real estate assets (in the form of upside-down listings for sale) that’s deflating faster than Heidi Montag. Please send any suckers you know my way. I’d like to sell one or two of them over the next year.

    “…there hasn’t been deflation in any country in over 60 years!”

  307. Poltroon says:

    hyde (258)-

    Pretty soon, jj will be marketing PSLs to observe his life.

    “JJ I want to live in your world! Who do i see to get in?”

  308. DL says:

    How about a GTG smackdown?

  309. Poltroon says:

    Like McMahon’s commercials smacking down that retard Blumenthal?

  310. renter (now a bagholder) says:

    A professor friend was recently saying they see many kids with perfect SAT scores start to wash out of the honors program within a semester. Another acquaintance(college admin) said they see more and more kids with mental illness because they are having to deal with things on their own without the helicopter parent.

    My daughter’s 5th grade teacher was threatening her with a zero because I wasn’t signing her tests within 24 hours. What the *(&9*!!

    My daughter has to figure out how to get her own work done. I am always here to help but if I’m on top of her 24×7 then she will never learn how to manage.

  311. Mr Hyde says:

    Renter 316

    A nation of serfs s much easier to manage if you can train them to always look to an authority figure before acting.

  312. zieba says:


    This ones for you;

    Guy makes comments about the ease of bombing a mall a few months back on a internet site. Guy brings car to shop recently and his mechanic finds this tacked onto the undercarriage. Guy posts photo on the net asking about its origin and FBI shows up at his doorstep demanding it back.

  313. Mikeinwaiting says:

    Ket I have someone look at the pickup, if you want to come up.

  314. Mike says:

    Mr. Hyde You looking for a Tundra or Tacoma? Used Tacoma’s are still getting top dollar because of there high Cosumer’s rating. Thinking ofgetting one myself.

  315. Mikeinwaiting says:

    to look

  316. Mr Hyde says:

    looking at a 4runner or maybe a tundra

  317. Mr Hyde says:

    is the 4runner on the tacoma frame or the tundra frame?

  318. Anon E. Moose says:

    Hyde [316];

    A nation of serfs s much easier to manage if you can train them to always look to an authority figure before acting.

    That’s an interesting view. I recall reading a story this year about a WWII playbook for how middle management types can passively undermine enemy organizations from within. It read like a Fortune 500 ISO 9000 manual – request clarification for everything; demand written instructions before acting; take no initiative; seek lateral consultation (meetings). I don’t have the chance to look it up at the moment.

  319. Nomad says:

    Goldman Sachs Says U.S. Economy May Be `Fairly Bad’

    – Glad I read this one or I never would have known.

    Lots of posts today Grim – thought there might have some type of coupon offer on the site.

    Nice fall weather weekend – enjoy it.

  320. House Whine says:

    325- It was gorgeous out today. Took a walk in the woods. Saw a deer. Cooked a great dinner and right now life is good. You can’t argue with that.

  321. Fabius Maximus says:

    I learned everything I know from Brett Favre.

    So you don’t know when to quit and go on past your prime!
    Not looking to get into the debate, but you can’t hang a curveball like that, over the plate.

  322. Fast Eddie says:

    Catholic school education from K through 12th grade. By the time I graduated high school, I already had two years of college under my belt. The public school system has become a fat, bloated scam that costs taxpayers triple the price of Catholic schools. You know, it’s for the children.

  323. Janus says:

    Lots of folks crowing about “surviving” their catholic school educations. Neat.

  324. Janus says:

    Learned a lot about the folks on here today. Be well people. Good luck!

  325. Janus says:

    My work here is done.

  326. Fabius Maximus says:

    I actually like the winning entry, but it might get Al’s hose in a bunch.

  327. gluteus (327)-

    I thought he meant he learned how to eat vic0din like they were Pez.

  328. Born in Margaret Hague says:

    “By the time I graduated high school, I already had two years of college under my belt.”

    Fast Eddie,

    Credit the streets of JC for putting you on the fast track. Then again, what the F do you know; you’re only a few coupons away from burning your mortgage note; unless mers F’d you up.

  329. Al Gore says:


    Catholic school let me drink myself stupid for 2 years of college. College truly was day care for adults. Not my fault. I had to wait 2 years for the public education retards to catch up. In other words learning reading comprehension and basic writing skills.

  330. Fast Eddie says:

    JC Baby!! Where the streets have no name. You could be a f*cking moron and still finish ahead of the pack. It was a best kept secret for ages!

  331. Al Gore says:

    Ron Paul,

    “The two most important things to protect right now are the right to own guns and the right to buy gold. One is to protect yourself physically. The other economically.”

    Sure do love that guy.

  332. Fast Eddie says:

    And when your father was a tavern owner for 27 years, you knew every trick in the f*cking book by the age of 14. How’s that for lethal: a prep school education with street cred! Deadly! LOL! And one signature away from being debt free!! Life is beautiful!

  333. Fast Eddie says:

    Al Gore [335],

    I agree.

  334. al (335)-

    The best money I made when I was young was tutoring public school kids at UNC. Most couldn’t write a five paragraph, one page paper. That gig paid better than bartending.

  335. NJCoast says:

    Aaron Lewis from Staind, Starland Ballroom, acoustic, cool.

  336. Janet Tavakoli, pulling no punches:

    “Ezra Klein: What’s happening here? Why are we suddenly faced with a crisis that wasn’t apparent two weeks ago?

    Janet Tavakoli: This is the biggest fraud in the history of the capital markets. And it’s not something that happened last week. It happened when these loans were originated, in some cases years ago. Loans have representations and warranties that have to be met. In the past, you had a certain period of time, 60 to 90 days, where you sort through these loans and, if they’re bad, you kick them back. If the documentation wasn’t correct, you’d kick it back. If you found the incomes of the buyers had been overstated, or the houses had been appraised at twice their worth, you’d kick it back. But that didn’t happen here. And it turned out there were loan files that were missing required documentation. Part of putting the deal together is that the securitization professional, and in this case that’s banks like Goldman Sachs and JP Morgan, has to watch for this stuff. It’s called perfecting the security interest, and it’s not optional.

    EK: And how much danger are the banks themselves in?

    JT: When we had the financial crisis, the first thing the banks did was run to Congress and ask for accounting relief. They asked to be able to avoid pricing this stuff at the price where people would buy them. So no one can tell you the size of the hole in these balance sheets. We’ve thrown a lot of money at it. TARP was just the tip of the iceberg. We’ve given them guarantees on debts, low-cost funding from the Fed. But a lot of these mortgages just cannot be saved. Had we acknowledged this problem in 2005, we could’ve cleaned it up for a few hundred billion dollars. But we didn’t. Banks were lying and committing fraud, and our regulators were covering them and so a bad problem has become a hellacious one.”

  337. Confused In NJ says:

    This week the Obama administration quietly exempted 30 employers — including McDonald’s, Jack in the Box and a teachers union — from new health care rules that the companies said they couldn’t afford.

    The move came after McDonald’s reportedly threatened to pull its stripped-down, limited-benefit coverage for part-time workers if it didn’t get a waiver.

    Critics say the exemptions show that health care reform may result in people losing their coverage, but the Obama administration says the waivers are just a stopgap measure. By 2014, people not covered by their employers can buy health insurance from marketplaces that are subsidized by tax credits, and large employers will face a fine if they do not adequately cover their employees.

    But it doesn’t look good for the president to be issuing waivers to companies that threaten skyrocketing premiums under the new law.

    “The big political issue here is: The president promised no one would lose the coverage they’ve got,” Robert Laszewski, chief executive officer of consulting company Health Policy and Strategy Associates, told Bloomberg News. “Here we are a month before the election, and these companies represent 1 million people who would lose the coverage they’ve got.”

    Obama critic Rush Limbaugh called the waivers “pardons” on his radio show.

    Starting next year, insurers will not be allowed to set caps on beneficiaries’ benefits any lower than $750,000. Insurers will also be required to spend the vast majority of what they receive in premiums — 85 percent — on actual health care.

    The benefit cap on the standard McDonald’s “mini-med” health care plan is $2,000 per year. In many cases, that would not cover an overnight stay at a hospital. The new health care law has banned this kind of low-benefit insurance.

    But the biggest beneficiary of the Obama administration’s exemption is the United Federation of Teachers, New York’s teachers union, reports the New York Post. The union, which campaigned for Obama in 2008, said it would have trouble insuring its 351,000 members next year if it had to set its benefit cap at $750,000 or more.

    “The fact that the largest waiver now belongs to New York teachers union bosses might be funny if the rest of America wasn’t stuck complying with the bill’s onerous mandates,” Patrick Semmens, spokesman for the anti-union National Right to Work Legal Defense Foundation, told the paper.

    White House Press Secretary Robert Gibbs said politics played no part in the union’s exemption

  338. NJGator says:

    Africk: It’s the Taxes (Stupid)

    Montclair Cary Africk says Montclair must lower taxes or watch its residents move away.

  339. Landis, former U.S. Postal teammate in Texas of a record seven consecutive champion Lance Armstrong to run, accused of a series of e-mail sent to the Armstrong doping doping,He and officials of cycling.Armstrong, who was his last competitive soccer, denied in his career, doping, and publicly attacked the credibility of Landis.Wellcome to:

  340. Mr Wantanapolous says:

    “Had we acknowledged this problem in 2005, we could’ve cleaned it up for a few hundred billion dollars. ”


    The OTC derivative manufacturers have turned a 3-4 year deep recession into a history making depression. If brain dead Bergabe, Bazooka Hank, lap dog Timmy and all their cohorts simply pulled the plug, we would now be on our way to recovery. Unfortunately, the thieves were not satisfied with making billions. They decided to cannobolize their firms/taxpayers to get their last fill at the pump; let’s make zillions.

    It will go down as the greatest fraud perpetuated upon any taxpayer in the history of mankind. Yet, they are paid record bonuses for their actions. Now, that’s truly talent. We will not have any recovery until all the mobsters are carted away. Then, all the stockholders/bondholders of defunct financial institutions must be wiped out. Why are hedge funds, that were levered 30-40 x’s and wrong, propped up? Why do we allow auto companies that can turn a profit to exist? I know, all stupid questions.

    We will not recover since the talent that got us in this mess are still at the helm. They are planning their last hurrah. The ultra wealthy get it; they are fleeing paper backed by faith. Unfortunately, the sheeple are not invited to the table.

    There is no demand, there is no recovery. The asset declines, yet the debt remains the same. Welcome to zombi-ism. You are certainly invited in; sorry all exits are locked. The only hope left is to drive your purchasing power to the abyss. Funny, nobody could see this coming.

  341. Mr Wantanapolous says:

    OOPS, cannibalize.

  342. Mr Wantanapolous says:

    can’t turn a profit. Yikes [no pun]

  343. Al Gore says:


    “It will go down as the greatest fraud perpetuated upon any taxpayer in the history of mankind. ”

    Its all by design my friend as you are well aware. This is all semantics. At the end of the year Grim should post a thread on the accuracy of our predictions from January 2010. Once the data is compiled we can get to work on 2011. The data alone will be like the slap of truth on those wise enough to even consider what we speak.

    There will be no political solution. Even if the elections resulted in a gridlocked DC this system must and will end. If you beg for the dictator on a pale horse to save you then you will surrender your kids future for the benefit of your own. If you let it collapse, take the pain, than at least your kids will be able to pursue life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.

    That critical point is coming quickly. Thats is the point where decisions will be made. Take the correct choices and you stand a chance. Make the wrong choice and you will witness this country turn into 3rd world sh_tbox as capital and talent leaves en masse.

    No IMF, No UN. Sound money is the solution relegated by Congress.

  344. ReadngtnDude says:

    4Runners are Tacoma frames. Watch for rust, lots of frame rust on both models especially 1995 to 2004 models.

    RD (I lurk and seldom post.)

  345. d2b says:

    The best seats in the house for sporting events are never courtside or first row. Those seats are reserved for people that value being seen. The people sitting somewhere in the middle have the luxury of viewing the whole field. The guy in the first row may think that the people behind him are losers. But the people behind him definitely get the last laugh.

  346. Pat says:

    Essex, it still pisses me off when you use three dots. Even as Janus.

    Cut the crap. Everybody sees through you. Without your wife’s teachers’ health benefits and relied-upon salary and the fact that she prolly does every f’n job around the house and takes care of the kid at bedtime, and feels guilty all the time ’cause she’s out working all day and can’t do all the Mommy stuff, you wouldn’t be able to play and drink your wine and plop in front of the damn PC and fool yourself about all the other sheet.

    Make a new start. Wake up and make them breakfast. Take the kid out rollerskating tomorrow. Go buy groceries and tell your wife it’s O.K. for her to go spend a weekend with her Mom/Sister/Cousin/Friend.

    Don’t drink. Be there for the little girl. She will remember. Buy the family membership at the indoor pool and take her EVERY FRIDAY night.

    Grow up. Go to phlebotomy school or become an X-Ray tech or something that’s at least useful. Stop selling underwear on the internet or whatever you do.

    It does get better, but you have to take the first step.

  347. Revelations says:

    I haven’t had this much fun since Freedy Day!

    I guess I have to agree with Janus. Only because he is a god of beginnings and endings, AND he has two heads that look into both the past and the future. He has already flexed his god-like powers by circumventing the blog filters approximately 100 times with his title.

  348. Janus says:

    Janus thanks you and the entire group for their participation today. I appreciate the discourse here more than you can know. I respect your opinions and reserve the right to break wind silently next to you at a future GTG.

  349. Janus says:

    Ah who am I kidding. I’ll never make one of those events.

  350. freedy says:

    please don’t drag me into to this

  351. Confused In NJ says:

    Interesting comment on unemployment from YHOO:

    It’s cheaper and better for the country to have unemployed people( who will now live within their means), than to borrow trillions of foreign dollars to hire people at full salaries, to produce nothing, and shop with those borrowed dollars, to buy foreign goods!

  352. Let’s hammer freedy today. Knock this thread over 800.

    How’s the financial comeback plan working, pesche?

  353. Mr Wantanapolous says:

    “No IMF, No UN. Sound money is the solution relegated by Congress.”


    IMF, I’MF-D

  354. Mr Wantanapolous says:


    Paraphrasing;”At least the Titanic had a band”

  355. Mr Wantanapolous says:

    My wife is dragging me to New Hope, Pa this weekend. Yikes, or anyone; any good establishments to watch baseball? She did make sure the B&B offered TBS before booking.

  356. Mr Wantanapolous says:

    What channel, date/time, will the war be on? If you don’t think the world is gravitating to a new form of currency, you have your head in the sand. Nobody could see this coming, right?

  357. Mr Wantanapolous says:

    There is no means of avoiding the final collapse of a boom brought about by credit (debt) expansion. The alternative is only whether the crisis should come sooner as the result of a voluntary abandonment of further credit (debt) expansion, or later as a final and total catastrophe of the currency system involved.
    – Ludwig von Mises

  358. willwork4beer says:

    #360 Mr. Wanta

    You could try the Triumph brewpub if you want to stay local.

    Re: RiverHorse- Yikes is close but I’m closer. I’ll be there if I can convince Mrs. Beer to go with me.

  359. Mr Wantanapolous says:


    Tell your wife, I’ll buy her a beer if she comes. If you go, look for an old guy wearing BC sweats with a young blond.

  360. Janus says:

    354. who am I kidding….I don’t even respect your opinions.

  361. Janus says:

    351. Uh…I actually did just get a membership to an indoor pool and we go once a week, just like you mentioned. Whoa, you must be psychic. OK, no. I read the rest of your post. I think you must be psychotic.

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