Wrist slapping delayed a few weeks

From the NY Post:

Mortgage megadeal is still weeks away

America’s biggest mortgage servicers are still weeks from reaching a potential multibillion-dollar deal with federal and state officials to settle the foreclosure fiasco, The Post has learned.

Key sticking points include the amount each bank will have shell out and whether the firms will be released from future lawsuits once a broad accord is struck, sources said. Banks could be hit with as much as $25 billion in fines.

Negotiators had hoped to reach an agreement in principle by last week or possibly this week.

But a source close to the talks between the five biggest US banks and 50 state attorneys general and federal regulators said discussions aren’t as far along as hoped and that an agreement might be reached in the next three to four weeks.

The settlement as it is now structured would form two types of funds — one national and funds for each of the states — that would settle most state and federal civil foreclosure claims against Bank of America, JPMorgan Chase, Wells Fargo, Citigroup and Ally Financial, formerly known as GMAC.

Last week, JPMorgan CEO Jamie Dimon voiced some frustration with the process and described the mortgage mess as an “unmitigated disaster” during a conference call with analysts to discuss second-quarter results. “We just really need to clean it up for the sake of everybody,” Dimon said. “And everybody is going to sue everybody else, and it’s going to go on for a long time.”

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126 Responses to Wrist slapping delayed a few weeks

  1. Mike says:

    Good Morning New Jersey

  2. grim says:

    From the Philly Inquirer:

    A Window Into Region’s Housing Crisis

    The silver 2005 Nissan Altima turns off Beverly-Rancocas Road at the McDonald’s in Willingboro, cruises up Garfield Drive, turns left at Genesee Lane, and takes the second left at Grayson Circle. It rolls under the mature sycamores and maples and up the rise to No. 36.

    The driver is a broad-shouldered, bearded Marine veteran whose deep brown eyes scan the landscape. He surveys the slope of lawn in front of the neat brick ranch house, with its small covered porch and white front door.

    Jamon Bailey winces at the “For Sale” sign, but he returns again and again, an unlikely ghost haunting a place that still holds his heart, a home lost in the nation’s devastating – and ongoing – foreclosure crisis.

    No community in the eight-county Philadelphia region has been hit as hard as Willingboro. Since 2008, when the crisis was in full stride, 15.9 percent of its housing stock was in foreclosure, says RealtyTrac, which analyzes the data. Two terrible forces crashed into each other in Willingboro: The township, one of the original 1950s Levittowns, has among the region’s largest concentrations of high-priced, exotic mortgages and of families with declining incomes.

    The difficulties are far from over. The township, which reported 411 vacant homes a decade ago, now reports 700 and counting.
    …he statistics are overwhelming. About two homes a week there were lost last year in sheriff’s sales, the final and most extreme event in a foreclosure. So many people are unable to avoid foreclosure, through mediation or the private sale of their homes, that Willingboro houses accounted for 20 percent of all sheriff’s sales in 2010 in Burlington County.

    In 2005, 209 foreclosure actions were filed against homeowners in Willingboro. In 2006, when the crisis hit, the number shot up 34 percent to 281, according to an analysis from American Foreclosures Inc., a firm that collects detailed foreclosure data.

    Since 2005, about 2,400 foreclosures have been filed in the township of 12,000 homes, according to the analysis.

    Between 2006 and May in Burlington County, 13,224 foreclosures were filed, according to figures compiled by the New Jersey Supreme Court. Statewide, meanwhile, the number was 241,721. Across the country, 5.6 million properties have gone into default since 2006, according to RealtyTrac, which analyzes foreclosures.

    At the height of the real estate frenzy, half the 2,700 first and second mortgages written on Willingboro homes in 2005 were high-cost, adjustable-rate loans to consumers, according to an analysis of federal mortgage data. Once the balloon payments came due or interest rates jumped 3 percentage points, 5 percentage points, or more, those homes were no longer affordable. Add on a souring economy in which people lost jobs or had their pay cut or suffered health problems or divorced, and many homes became impossible to hold on to.

    Looking back, Boyer said she had begun to notice the troubles brewing as early as 2004.

    “That’s when a lot of those subprime programs were introduced,” she recalled. “A lot of people were moving from North Jersey during that time. They could get a four-bedroom for about $180,000 [in Willingboro] and were looking at homes [in the New York area] in the $300,000-to-$400,000 range or even higher.”

  3. grim says:

    From HousingWire:

    Lawmakers introduce bipartisan bill to extend conforming loan limits

    Rep. John Campbell (R-Calif.) and Rep. Gary Ackerman (D-N.Y.) introduced a bill Friday that would extend the current conforming loan limit for government-backed mortgages for another two years.

    The Conforming Loan Limits Extension Act, or H.R. 2508, would allow the government-sponsored enterprises and the Federal Housing Administration to guarantee or buy mortgages worth as much as $729,750 in most neighborhoods. If Congress does not pass this bill, the loan limit will drop to $625,500, though the limit will vary by county.

    A recent report from the National Association of Home Builders showed 17 million homes would become ineligible for less expensive federal funding. The drop could affect as many as 669 counties across 42 states.

    Federal Reserve Chairman Ben Bernanke, however, told the House Financial Services Committee this week that he believed the private market, including investors and insurers, was ready to take over for the government — albeit at a higher cost to the consumer.

  4. grim says:

    From CNBC:

    Moody’s Suggests US Eliminates Debt Ceiling

    Ratings agency Moody’s on Monday suggested the United States should eliminate its statutory limit on government debt to reduce uncertainty among bond holders.

    The United States is one of the few countries where Congress sets a ceiling on government debt, which creates “periodic uncertainty” over the government’s ability to meet its obligations, Moody’s said in a report.

    “We would reduce our assessment of event risk if the government changed its framework for managing government debt to lessen or eliminate that uncertainty,” Moody’s analyst Steven Hess wrote in the report.

    The agency last week warned it would cut the United States’ AAA credit rating if the government misses debt payments, increasing pressure on Republicans and the White House to come up with a budget agreement.

  5. The Original NJ ExPat says:

    PM’s looking very healthy this morning.

  6. serenity now says:

    Re#4 “We would reduce our assessment of event risk if the government changed its framework for managing government debt to lessen or eliminate that uncertainty,” Moody’s analyst Steven Hess wrote in the report.

    Am I reading this correctly that Moodys would be happier if we just ignore the
    debt issue?

  7. Confused In NJ says:

    6.serenity now says:
    July 18, 2011 at 7:39 am
    Re#4 “We would reduce our assessment of event risk if the government changed its framework for managing government debt to lessen or eliminate that uncertainty,” Moody’s analyst Steven Hess wrote in the report.

    Am I reading this correctly that Moodys would be happier if we just ignore the
    debt issue?

    Moody’s will change to down grading the US, once they exceed borrowing 100% of the money needed from the Infinity Cap.

  8. JJ - AKA Two Hands says:


    I love the article six months late that munis are a buying opportunity.

  9. JJ - AKA Two Hands says:

    so anyhow met some guy named crappo this weekend, greatgranddad or something founded GM. I hate fancy pancy people. I wanted so bad to say given you last name don’t you find it funny that from the 1970s to 1990s GM actually made crappo cars? But I did not.

  10. JJ - AKA Two Hands says:

    Gary Ackerman (D-N.Y.) is from Roslyn LI just like JP on the Bachelorette. Wonder if on the home town date tonight Ackerman will pitch his plan. Actually they are going roller skating on the south shore at Hot Skates. As if a extremely rich guy from Roslyn who has a coop in NYC actually takes dates skating in Lynbrook long island home of Ray Romano.

    also as if a super rich guy took a girl skating in middle class li he would ever have a second date.

  11. Anon E. Moose says:

    [Sunday’s article – Bubble Sitters Unrealistic]

    The analysis found that people currently selling their homes who bought in 2007 or later are overpricing them by 14%. In contrast, those who bought before 2002 are overpricing by 12% and those who bought between 2002 and 2006 are overpricing by 9%.

    Bubble Sitters? How about Knife-Catchers? There were people in 2007 who still wouldn’t admit that there even was a bubble, much less that it had peaked/popped. Complete misdefinition of the class.

  12. Anon E. Moose says:

    Re: Title Post,

    Good news is that if a deal happens, it might finally loosen up the distressed property market. Banks will have put aside the cash they need to pay this over the table bribe to government and clear their books of the nuclear waster that is their collateral.

    Bad news is that the at least some of the fine money is likey going into the pockets of deadbeats, which will only reinforce their Donald Chump, Master Real Estate Investor complex.

  13. Kettle1^2 says:


    start your monday morning off right!!!

    The Natives Are Getting Restless: Chinese Police Station Attacked, 5 Killed


  14. Shore Guy says:

    I am sure there are more than a few other people here for whom this piece hits home:


    The current top federal rate of 35% is scheduled to rise to 39.6% in 2013 (plus one-to-two points from the phase-out of itemized deductions for singles making above $200,000 and couples earning above $250,000). The payroll tax is 12.4% for Social Security (capped at $106,000), and 2.9% for Medicare (no income cap). While the payroll tax is theoretically split between employers and employees, the employers’ share is ultimately shifted to workers in the form of lower wages.

    But there are also state income taxes that need to be kept in mind. They contribute to the burden. The top state personal rate in California, for example, is now about 10.5%. Thus the marginal tax rate paid on wages combining all these taxes is 44.1%. (This is a net figure because state income taxes paid are deducted from federal income.)

    So, for a family in high-cost California taxed at the top federal rate, the expiration of the Bush tax cuts in 2013, the 0.9% increase in payroll taxes to fund ObamaCare, and the president’s proposal to eventually uncap Social Security payroll taxes would lift its combined marginal tax rate to a stunning 58.4%.

    But wait, things get worse. As Milton Friedman taught decades ago, the true burden on taxpayers today is government spending; government borrowing requires future interest payments out of future taxes. To cover the Congressional Budget Office projection of Mr. Obama’s $841 billion deficit in 2016 requires a 31.7% increase in all income tax rates (and that’s assuming the Social Security income cap is removed). This raises the top rate to 52.2% and brings the total combined marginal tax rate to 68.8%. Government, in short, would take over two-thirds of any incremental earnings.

    Many Democrats demand no changes to Social Security and Medicare spending. But these programs are projected to run ever-growing deficits totaling tens of trillions of dollars in coming decades, primarily from rising real benefits per beneficiary. To cover these projected deficits would require continually higher income and payroll taxes for Social Security and Medicare on all taxpayers that would drive the combined marginal tax rate on labor income to more than 70% by 2035 and 80% by 2050. And that’s before accounting for the Laffer effect, likely future interest costs, state deficits and the rising ratio of voters receiving government payments to those paying income taxes.

    It would be a huge mistake to imagine that the cumulative, cascading burden of many tax rates on the same income will leave the middle class untouched. Take a teacher in California earning $60,000. A current federal rate of 25%, a 9.5% California rate, and 15.3% payroll tax yield a combined income tax rate of 45%. The income tax increases to cover the CBO’s projected federal deficit in 2016 raises that to 52%. Covering future Social Security and Medicare deficits brings the combined marginal tax rate on that middle-income taxpayer to an astounding 71%. That teacher working a summer job would keep just 29% of her wages. At the margin, virtually everyone would be working primarily for the government, reduced to a minority partner in their own labor.

    Nobody—rich, middle-income or poor—can afford to have the economy so burdened.

  15. Shore Guy says:

    Oh, I forgot, those of us paying top rate are not “paying our fair share.” Gimme a freaking break. Unless one is willing to pay a flat tax, same rate as everyone else, one is riding on the backs of others.

  16. Anon E. Moose says:

    Ket [13];

    I just heard something from NPR about how NorK pimps out their people along the DMZ to SK manufacturing concerns who’ve set up shop in s special production zone along the DMZ. The Gov’t gets paid in dollars and gives their workers virtually worthless NK script. No wonder that KJI didn’t lob his missles at those factories a while back.

    Funny thing about the story is the PRK defector they interviewed said that she decided to defect through China because she became disaffected with how free and open it was on the China side of the border (!!!) when she was sent there on missions.

  17. Anon E. Moose says:

    Shore [15];

    Great chapter from Atlas Shrugged about that very concept. The whole town bought onto open socialism, becuase they all thought they could ride on the coat tails of everyone above them. They didn’t realize that everyone else thought the same thing, meaning that the lift was non-existent, nor did they account for the weight of everyone below them doing the same.

  18. homeboken says:

    Update for 2Cents – http://www.realtor.com/realestateandhomes-detail/529-Scotland-Rd_South-Orange-Village-Twp_NJ_07079_M61147-03493

    Your steal of the century home in South Orange, didn’t sell last week. 88 days and counting. How was your open house yesterday? Deserted?

  19. make money says:

    13 Kett,

    Gren light for CIA to spark a revolution. We don’t recognize the new gov’t and stop paying interest, wipe a trillion of our debt. bullish. green shoots. and muster seeds for everyone.

  20. freedy says:

    how much are the taxes on that south orange beauty?

  21. Juice Box says:

    #4 re : Moody’s calling for the end to the debt ceiling. – I am surprised that nobody in the Media doesn’t ask this question to a Congressman or Senator. How would be the US Dollar still maintain it’s status as the international reserve currency if US Government adopts a balanced budged admendment and pays off all of its Treasury debt? Without our US Treasury certificates of indebtedness of there would be no international US Dollar reserve currency.

    Don’t be surprised on what may happen in the next two weeks. They need to convince us to let them issue more Treasuries and any excuse they can find will surface. Downgrades from S&P, Moody’s and heck a one day 1000 + drop in the DOW if needed.

  22. Juice Box says:

    Kette1 – from Worse to even

  23. Juice Box says:

    Kette1 – what comes next?

    Tokyo Electric Power Co. is rushing to install a cover over a building at its crippled Fukushima Dai-Ichi nuclear plant to shield it from wind and rain as Typhoon Ma-on approaches Japan’s coast from the south.

    Work on the cover for the turbine building of the No. 3 reactor started at about 8:30 a.m. today, Junichi Matsumoto, a general manager at the utility known as Tepco, said at briefing in Tokyo. The transfer of tainted water for storage in a barge docked next to the plant was halted, spokesman Satoshi Watanabe said by telephone.

    The eye of Ma-on, which is categorized as “extremely strong,” was about 420 kilometers (260 miles) southeast of the city of Kagoshima at 4 p.m. today, or 1,200 kilometers from the Fukushima plant, according to the website of the Japan Meteorological Agency.

    The storm was moving north at 25 kilometers per hour with winds blowing at 157 kph. Ma-on is forecast to continuing heading north and may cross coast of the southwestern island of Kyushu after 6 a.m. tomorrow. A forecast track from the U.S. Navy Joint Typhoon Warning Center indicates the storm may pass over the Fukushima plant by July 21.


  24. prtraders2000 says:

    I just did a quick “what if” tax analysis for a client with 2010 income of 340k. He is concerned about 17k of AMT. Current effective federal rate 21.8%. Florida resident. He has a significant portion of his income being taxed @ 15%.

  25. The Original NJ Expat says:

    #20 freedy – $14,059.89
    freedy says:
    July 18, 2011 at 9:59 am

    how much are the taxes on that south orange beauty?

  26. JJ - AKA Two Hands says:

    AMT goes away as part of one deal to jack taxes so just guessing at this point..

    prtraders2000 says:
    July 18, 2011 at 10:55 am

    I just did a quick “what if” tax analysis for a client with 2010 income of 340k. He is concerned about 17k of AMT. Current effective federal rate 21.8%. Florida resident. He has a significant portion of his income being taxed @ 15%.

  27. grim says:

    $14k???? Bargain for sure

  28. NJGator says:

    I smell a tax hike coming in Warren…

    Braun: Warren Township melodrama highlights suburban mismanagement

    Here’s the rap on government in New Jersey’s cities. Inept. Wasteful of taxpayers’ funds. Not at all like what happens in the state’s leafy and well-run suburbs, right?

    Not in places like Warren Township in Somerset County — a place with a municipal government that, just a few weeks ago, got battered with a state jury verdict of $1.3 million and faces legal fees of up to $1.2 million, all over a municipal judge who, among other things, came to court after he had consumed alcohol and prescription painkillers.

    That’s a liability of $2.5 million for a town with an annual budget of $16 million.

    Proportionately, it would be like New Jersey having to come up with $5 billion because its leaders failed to exercise good judgment.

    “We would have settled for a fraction of that,” says Nancy Erika Smith of Montclair. She represents Michele D’Onofrio of Long Hill, a lawyer who lost her job as Warren’s municipal prosecutor after she ratted out the drinking judge, Richard Sasso.

    Gary Dinardo, Warren’s mayor, wouldn’t comment. Neither would Dominick Bratti, the town’s lawyer. Because it’s still in litigation — Warren is appealing the case.

    Sasso, however, is more than happy to comment: Even he says the town didn’t handle the case right.

    “Their approach was probably seen as arrogant by the jury,” says Sasso. Transcripts show town council members said they replaced D’Onofrio because they had a right to make political appointments. Sasso, who was not asked to testify for the town, says they should have argued she was “inept.”

    After D’Onofrio complained about him, Sasso was banned for life from serving as a municipal court judge anywhere in New Jersey because of his behavior on the bench, causing a ruckus at Torpedo’s, a Bound Brook go-go bar, and an inclination to use his contempt powers to jail defendants inappropriately. He did not explain when asked how his own bad judgment qualifies him to judge D’Onofrio — “It is what it is,” he says.

    Sasso, who made $200,000 a year as the part-time municipal court judge in Warren, Bridgewater, Watchung and Bound Brook, certainly is no friend of D’Onofrio, the woman who complained about him to the state agency charged with reviewing the behavior of judges.

    D’Onofrio, the daughter of a retired Newark narcotics detective, is the single mother of four sons and a two-time cancer survivor. She says she tried to get the Warren Township council to do something about Sasso’s behavior but was ignored.

    “He had a lot of friends in town,” she says.


  29. make money says:

    Gold futures breach $1,600

    Why “breach”? as if there was security in place to prevent shiny from $1600. Horse has left the barn long ago. Cash for trash sealed this fate. For all those who keep their DP and or savings in USD or any other currency, you’re helping kick the can at your own demise.

    Disclosure: I sit where I stand. Perth mint is where I store. Just received Australian Citizenship. Now, I only need a nompound here in NY.

  30. Xroads says:

    11 moose

    I know people who still refuse to use the bubble word. They wouldn’t talk about it on the way up and refuse to talk about it on the way down. It’s like talking baseball logic with a Yankee fan. Bad stuff just doesn’t happen in their fantasy world.

    “Bubble Sitters? How about Knife-Catchers? There were people in 2007 who still wouldn’t admit that there even was a bubble, much less that it had peaked/popped. Complete misdefinition of the class.”

  31. NJGator says:

    Oops, left this paragraph out of the snip above…

    And elsewhere, too, apparently. After she complained about Sasso’s behavior, she not only lost her job in Warren but also her position at the law firm run by former acting Gov. Donald DiFrancesco, a Republican. She sued his firm, too, citing both the Sasso incidents and sexual harassment. The case was settled for an undisclosed amount — and all sides agreed to a nondisclosure agreement. They can’t say anything about the litigation.

  32. Barbara says:

    Just got in from South Beach. Spent the week working out a deal via my Iphone and now we are in attorney review. We saw several houses the week before and put bids on two. Of the two, one was our top pick but doing the multiple bid thing really worked in our favor. Both owners came back with laughable counters. Had a phantom “other offer coming in” when the top house countered. Amazingly, when called on it later, the seller’s agent stammered and couldn’t give an affirmative on that other offer. Played a little hardball down tot he last few grand that involved the sellers furnishings (they were being stubborn on a very fair offer and had t leave the country). Also, most importantly we put an expiration date on the offer, end of week. That and knowing we made another offer on another house really seemed to work. Lastly, this was no deal…I am paying today’s price for what is an exceptional house, park front. Anyway, waiting for that call where I am told that I have been outbid. Finger’s crossed until Thursday.

  33. NJGator says:

    Fingers and toes crossed for you, Barbara. Good luck!

  34. yo'me says:

    25% tax bracket for 2010 married filing jointly is $69,000-$139,350.That is a lot of deductions and 15% capital gains to bring $340K income to 21.8% effective tax rate.And the rich are complaining they are paying too much taxes!!

    prtraders2000 says:
    July 18, 2011 at 10:55 am
    I just did a quick “what if” tax analysis for a client with 2010 income of 340k. He is concerned about 17k of AMT. Current effective federal rate 21.8%. Florida resident. He has a significant portion of his income being taxed @ 15%.

  35. Shore Guy says:


    If I had been there, I would have contacted you right away.

  36. Painhrtz - Salmon of Doubt says:

    Good luck Barb

  37. BC Bob says:

    Make [30],

    It broke out of it’s rectangular pattern as soon as the paper printer broadcast that gold was not money.

  38. BC Bob says:


    I know, we’ll hook up at one.

  39. JJ - AKA Two Hands says:

    25% of 139K 0K is $34,760 and 21.8% of 340K is $74,120.

    To get to the 21.8% bracket is to have a large amount of cap gains as income which means your income stream can blow up like it did in 2008 and 2009. You are taking lots of risk.

    Plus at 139k some thing like kids, RE taxes, student loan interest, child care credits, 401k, FSA, 529 plans can throw you down to 0 to 15% tax rate. All stuff that won’t help at 340k as either AMT does not allow it or moving to 300 income does not change rate.

    yo’me says:
    July 18, 2011 at 11:30 am

    25% tax bracket for 2010 married filing jointly is $69,000-$139,350.That is a lot of deductions and 15% capital gains to bring $340K income to 21.8% effective tax rate.And the rich are complaining they are paying too much taxes!!

  40. make money says:


    I sent Ron an maximum contribution after that interview.

  41. Libtard in the City says:

    Homeboken (18):

    How can you move right in when the kitchen cabinets are missing pulls/knobs?

  42. Libtard in the City says:

    Barb…Congrats (hopefully).

  43. NJGator says:

    18 – $299k and only $14k/year in taxes. Sweet!

  44. Barbara says:

    33. Not sure why I made “fingers” a possessive.

  45. Barbara says:

    A few more details….sellers bought the house in the very bubbly 2006. The dumped about 75k into it. The difference here is that they spent that 75k very well, the taste level is high. This is one of only a few remodeled historic houses that I have seen where I was willing to pay for the renos. Still, they are taking quite a loss. I think one of them is either French or Belgian. The owners before them bought in 1999 and had all the original windows and sashes scraped down, lead paint removed and reinstalled, completed rehabed, no vinyl. She’s a gem.

  46. My advice to Tiger Woods is the same as Bluto’s to Dorfman in Animal House:

    “My advice to you is to start drinking heavily.”

    A few nips of Everclear in the AM also helps you to ignore the overwhelming stench of death.

  47. babs (47)-

    Nothing like bending over a Belgian, eh?

  48. Give him a plunger handle as a closing gift. No better way to show how much you care.

  49. Say it best with dead flowers…

  50. Barbara says:

    Also, this is in South Jersey. What ultimately forced our hand out of North Jersey? The property taxes. I could have gotten a house within the same price range, but taxes would have been nearly double. I cannot compete with people who are staring down 25-30k per kid private schooling in Manhattan who find 20k a year on a modest 4 bedroom in a nothing special town, a total bargain. For two people who are not reliant on a Manhattan daily commute, I just couldn’t justify it. So we get to continue taking multiple vacations per year and regular shopping at Wegmans :P

  51. Shore Guy says:


    If I were to guess, that $14,000 is on top of regular federal taxes.

  52. Why not just move to Delaware?

  53. Kettle1^2 says:


    I cant wait to see how they put a roof that can handle any real wind load over the destroyed reactor that is emitting radiation levels high enough to kill a person in minutes, or in a few hours depending on the day.

    lets see how reactor 4, the leaning, unstable reactor holds up.

  54. Barbara says:

    Delaware? Why not just off myself!?

  55. Barbara says:

    Its not THAT South. I’m not shuckin clams off the Delaware bay.

  56. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [54] Meat

    Delaware is a bigger wasteland than south Jersey.

  57. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    I’ll confess that I know nothing of Chinese tax law, but the idea that the People’s Republic of China, the largest “communist” country in the world, has a less socialistic tax regime than the United States should give us all pause.


  58. Barbara says:

    This is in the Haddonfield corridor.

  59. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    Okay, for grins I googled it, and found that, in general, the tax scheme in China is not markedly different from our own. Unless the Renmimbi is much higher than the dollar, the rates kick in at lower amounts, but then the costs of living are also lower, so in real terms, it remains to be seen who is taxed more. Still, a bit unsettling to note that our progressive tax structure closely resembles that of a Communist nation.


  60. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [60] barbara

    “This is in the Haddonfield corridor”

    I’m sorry, er, congratulations.

  61. Kettle1^2 says:

    Nom 61

    how else do you fund the social programs to buy the populous off?

  62. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    This makes me look forward to the 2nd quarter expat numbers:

    “Foreigners bought fewer long-dated U.S. securities in May and, including bills and other short-term instruments, were net sellers of all U.S. assets for the first time in 11 months, U.S. Treasury data showed Monday.

    The United States attracted a net long-term capital inflow of $23.6 billion after $30.6 billion in April. Including short-dated assets such as bills, foreigners sold a net $67.5 billion, reversing the prior month’s upwardly revised net inflow of $66.6 billion. The May tally was the first net outflow since June 2010. . . .”

  63. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [63] Kettle,

    The only real problem is when there are a significant percentage of HNW americans that “go Galt.” In fact, they needn’t expatriate, just retire. Once that happens, their effective tax rate drops dramatically.

    Then the fun starts.

  64. NJGator says:

    Not that I’m a conspiracy theorist or anything, but the guy who blew the whistle on the News of the World Phone Hacking just turned up dead.


  65. Kettle1^2 says:


    is that similar to the ‘DC Madam’ that “hung herself” when she had dirt on some high ranking congressmen?

  66. Kettle1^2 says:

    Nom 65

    I havent looked at the numbers, but i would image it will be a potentially ugly event when the boomers begin a net drawdown of their collective retirement funds/assets as well.

  67. Kettle1^2 says:

    or how about this from 2005?

    Ukraine’s security service chief has said the death of former Interior Minister Yuri Kravchenko last month was almost certainly suicide.

    “There is no other version but suicide,” Oleksander Turchynov said, citing forensic and ballistics tests.

    Kravchenko was found dead with two gunshot wounds to the head on 4 March in his country house outside Kiev.

  68. Shore Guy says:


    At least if the “tac-the-rich crowd” were being intellectually honest, they would call for increasing all tax rates, not just the top rate: 15% would go to 18 0r 20%, etc. It strikes me that many, if not most, who are calling for higher rates are just doing so because it is someone else’s ox that will get gored.

    Likewise, I do not seeing those who are calling for “the rich” to lose tax deductions also calling for elimination of middle-class deductions, such as interest deductions on mortgages or deductions for dependant offspring.

    I, for one, would be pleased to see all deductions eliminated, they just distort the economy and are akin to introducing an invasive species to control a domestic pest; where, so often, the cure turns out to be worse than the original problem. Would this cost the Shore family money? Probably, but it would surely raise the revenue the liberals say we need to save the economy. Okay, I am willing to do my part, as long as they do theirs as well.

    If government programs are too important to cut, then every tax rate should be raised. I suspect that doing so would cause a good number of those who advocate raising the top rate to reconsider the value of certain spending.

  69. Shore Guy says:

    tax, too

  70. Shore Guy says:

    Or, maybe, they want to “tack” the rich to the wall.

  71. Shore Guy says:


    He was a very accomplished shooter. A testament to his Red Army training.

  72. Shore Guy says:

    I wonder if he also tied his own hands behind his back before shooting?

  73. Shore Guy says:


    Two thoughts:

    1) “Nice place you have here. You must be very proud. It would be a shame if some unfortunate event were to occur, you are out talking to people you shouldn’t the very instant an electrical fire starts. That would be a pitty, especially if your kids were playing in the back room at the time.”

    2) Just because someone is not paranoid does not mean that nobody is out to get them.

  74. make money says:


    People should pool their money together and hire a bunch of hit man to take out 20-25 key shmucks and Murdoch and Soros should be pretty high on that list.

    if you live by fire, you ….

  75. Juice Box says:

    re #71- “tax-the-rich crowd” – Shore if the top 1% of the richest Americans each wrote a check for $1 million USD a piece additionally to the US Treasury annually we still would have a deficit and plenty of debt. The number is 1.4 million x 1 million = 1.4 trillion (using 2008 tax returns) it is proboscis less than 1.4 million in the top 1% bracket in 2011.

  76. Kettle1^2 says:

    make 77

    i thought it was “live by the sword, die by the sword”

  77. Juice Box says:

    proboscis = probably Damm you spell check!

  78. Shore Guy says:


    The USG could confiscate all the assets held by the richest 1-2% and it would not come close to solving our problem.

  79. Shore Guy says:

    People have to come to grips withthe fact that we spend too much and “we” demand that government provide this, that, and the other thing, while wanting “the other guy” to foot the bill.

  80. Shore Guy says:


    The USG could con-fiscate all the as-sets held by the richest 1-2% and it would not come close to solving our problem.

  81. Shore Guy says:


    The USG cou-ld con-fis-cate all the as-s-ets held by the ric-hest 1-2% and it would not come close to solving our problem.

  82. Shore Guy says:

    sorry about the – but the post kept getting stuck in mod.

  83. yo'me says:

    I will go with a graduated flat tax system.Eliminate all deductions and let the Bush’s tax cut expire, keep the brackets same as the Clinton era.This will bring in more revenue without tax increase.Same person that made $340k is now in the highest tax bracket not at 21%.The person that made $130K is at 25% that is fair.No more deductions.Poorest of the poor 0 to $17K will pay 10%.This should solve all budget issues.Everybody pays income tax.No increase in taxes.

  84. Shore Guy says:

    Juice, a million million is a billion, not a trillion.

  85. Shore Guy says:


    I would prefer a single tax rate but could live in the world you describe — but, as long as we are eliminating deductions, the AMT has to go.

  86. Shore Guy says:

    oops, a thousand million is a billion. I will go back to the coffee machine now.

  87. Shore Guy says:

    It is the problem when a middle-aged brain meets coffee defecit, meets posting at a traffic light.

  88. Shore Guy says:

    deficit, even

  89. yo'me says:

    It is true government spend too much but what we demand is what we paid into.I dont want to hear an elected official saying ,let aug 2 expire and will pay interest on our debt but let our citizens starve.When it was them that put us in this mess through all the years

  90. Kettle1^2 says:


    how about limiting the entire tax code to no more than 10 pages, double sided, 12 pt new time roman font. that pretty much eliminates all but the simplest of tax codes.

  91. Shore Guy says:

    Obama needs cash, so I better go send some invoices.

  92. Juice Box says:

    Shore , I have a math degree and I still make plenty of errors. Point is even with the tax donation of a million from 1.4 million people annually we still would not pay down the deficit. Inflation hedges anyone?

  93. Kettle1^2 says:

    yome 90

    “we” spent several times the amount we put in, hence the little debt issues.

  94. Shore Guy says:

    “but what we demand is what we paid into”

    We? We? You must have a mouse in your pocket? I know that I have been looking for cuts to governemtn for a long, long time. As we went from a robust, cash-generating, manufacturing economy to whatever we are currently calling what we have, our ability to fund the types of programs that guilt, good intentions, or whatever else, motivated us to fund disappeared. We cant keep spending what we are spending. Like it or not, our debt obligations are contracts whereas our social programs are promises. If we do not honor our contracts, we better be willing to cut 40% of our budget, because the world will not want to lend us the money we need at terms we will be able to afford.

  95. Shore Guy says:


    We are in agreement. We cannot fix this by having “someone else” pay.

  96. Juice Box says:

    re #90 starvation – Yo’me – I believe 44 million of the 70 million already collecting Gov checks are getting food stamps now.

    With only 58% of the adult population working something has to give, we either give them all jobs or cut bennies, we cannot tax our way to any kind of balance.

  97. freedy says:


    With everything we have going on. Lets work on Aid/Hiv in africa

  98. A.West says:

    This year my taxes got incredibly complicated. Filing is nearly 100 pages. E&Y did it, but I did most of the work tracking down the information and entering it in their system – almost worse than Turbotax, which offers more feedback, clarification, and info than E&Y. I wish they provided a flowchart. I get the feeling I may be overpaying by $20k.

  99. Shore Guy says:


    I understand the feeling. Ours is regularly in that ballpark. Add to the federal paperwork tax filings in about 20 states it becomes quite a little stack.

  100. Happy Renter says:

    Just back from an extended vacation in a few of the PIGS countries. I found them to be beautiful and vibrant, so, default shmefault; I don’t see what all this concern is about.

    In any case, it’s good to get back to the USA and see everything is going similarly well with our budget.

    With such a rosy economic picture in the background, and Manhattan continuing to bleed wealth, a housing recovery around here is all but certain. Buy now or be priced out forever!

  101. plume (58)-

    That’s debatable.

    “Delaware is a bigger wasteland than south Jersey.”

  102. babs (60)-

    Haddonfield, where the two growth industries are liquor stores and sod ranches.

    God have mercy on you.

    “This is in the Haddonfield corridor.”

  103. gator (69)

    Shit on a Shingle? My favorite breakfast dish!


  104. Al Mossberg says:


    Hacked DOT Road Sign Reads “Impeach Obama”

    “UNION COUNTY, N.C. (WGHP)— An electronic DOT road sign was apparently hacked when a displayed message read “Impeach Obama.”

    DOT officials told WSOC they had not heard of the display when first contacted on Sunday night, but sent an engineer to correct the sign afterward.

    The message, which was located at the intersection of Unionville-Indian Trail and Ridge roads in Union County, was displayed for an unknown amount of time over the weekend and corrected later Sunday evening.

    Several drivers stopped to take pictures of the sign.”


  105. I would be happy if they replaced O with Lamar Odom.

    Seriously, the guy would be great…simply because he’s incapable of doing as much damage as O.

  106. Barbara says:

    I don’t even get it. Are you sure you have the right town? Its high school is tops, has been for over 30 years.

  107. Shore Guy says:

    This is the best move the congress can make, extend the debt limit but link it to spending cuts and a constitutionl amendment requiring us to balance our budgets.

    BO is threatening to veto it. Go ahead! If he does he owns the default. What is he frightened if? Does he not trust yhe wisdom of the state legislatures?


  108. Kettle1^2 says:


    I would love to see what a satellite radiograph of the storm passing over fukushima would look like. Given that fukushima is still actively emitting substantial amounts of radiation and that storm is such up moisture as it moves…….. This storm will have literal fallout.

  109. Kettle1^2 says:

    I’m sure this wont hurt the RE mess in Florida….. I bet the banks REALLY hope this decision doesn’t spread.

    A Bar staff opinion held it makes no difference whether the case was open or closed or what stage an open case is at in terms of the lawyer’s duty. The opinion said that under Rule 4-3.3 (Candor Toward the Tribunal), the improperly prepared affidavits constitute false evidence, and the lawyer has a duty to disclose that to the courts.

    Other rules must also be considered, the opinion said, including Rule 4-1.2(d) which prohibits assisting a client in criminal or fraudulent conduct, Rule 4-3.4(b) which prohibits a lawyer from fabricating evidence or assisting a witness who offers false testimony, Rule 4-8.4(a) which prohibits violating the Rules of Professional Conduct or assisting another to do so, Rule 4-8.4(c) which bars an attorney from conduct that constitutes dishonesty, fraud, deceit, or misrepresentation, and Rule 4-8.4(d) which prohibits a lawyer from conduct that is prejudicial to the administration of justice.

    The staff opinion concluded that, “the inquiring attorney first should attempt to have the client correct the improperly verified and notarized affidavits. The inquiring attorney should advise the client that if the client fails to correct the affidavits, then the inquiring attorney will have to withdraw and will have to reveal the truth to the court. If the client refuses to take the required corrective action, the inquiring attorney will have to reveal the fact that there has been an improperly verified and notarized affidavit filed in each of these cases, whether they are pending or already closed. The inquiring attorney also will have to move to withdraw from further representation of the client in pending cases, where the client refuses to correct the affidavits, while making as minimal a disclosure as necessary when doing so.”


  110. chicagofinance says:

    The end is nigh (Borders Sux Edition):

  111. Al Mossberg says:

    There are a lot of nice towns in Southern Jersey. If you have driven the county roads out to Maguire AFB there are numerous nice farms etc. Makes you feel like you are driving through another state. Some other nice ones I visited.

    Somers Point
    Cape May
    Long Port

  112. babs (107)-

    Just having some fun with you.

  113. Barbara says:

    no problem, I’m a little slow. At first I thought “sod ranch” meant a place where sod is grown and sold. Der.

  114. Neanderthal Economist says:

    “At first I thought “sod ranch” meant a place where sod is grown and sold. Der.”
    Yes I think he does mean that, ripping on south jersey stagnant economy babs…

  115. Barbara says:

    Yes, but there isn’t a farm in sight for 20 miles in any direction. However, there ARE ranches…..with a lot of sod….

  116. Juice Box says:

    Babs – congrats and ignore the snarks especially the jackon white ones like clot who will be huckstering ripple for the rest of his days.

  117. Lots of puppy mills in South Jersey, too.

  118. Barbara says:

    I thought the puppy mills were in PA, out in Lancaster. Those souless Amish with their plain closes and wall eyes.

  119. Barbara says:

    clothes even

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