Irene hits Jersey residents a second time

From the Record:

Tax hikes, service cuts likely as Irene costs towns $61M

Hurricane or not, Irene is on track to becoming one of the most expensive natural disasters in North Jersey’s history, with preliminary estimates from the region’s municipal governments totaling in the tens of millions of dollars, public records show.

With damage yet to be tallied in many of the hardest-hit towns, Bergen County’s public agencies had reported more than $19.3 million in damaged public buildings, buckled roadways, garbage pickup and other government expenses by late last week, according to numbers compiled by The Record. And those costs will be at least partly passed onto residents and taxpayers in the form of higher property taxes, service cuts or loss of use to public facilities that are not immediately repaired, officials in several towns said.

The estimated damage amounted to nearly $42 million in Passaic County — where half of the costs were in Paterson and tallies were almost certain to rise because they had been calculated while many roadways were underwater, Passaic County officials said.

Those costs are in addition to the $199.8 million in damage to business and private properties reported so far in Bergen and Passaic counties. All costs will likely change as Federal Emergency Management Agency officials visit local governments to compile official tallies starting this week.

“This is a catastrophic loss for all the government agencies in the county, and the citizens as well,” said Sgt. Barry Leventhal of the Bergen County Office of Emergency Management. He added that state and federal officials would work with municipalities to minimize the impact to taxpayers and private homeowners.

State and federal officials said they were doing everything they could to help local governments recover, but some officials said they were skeptical of receiving enough money to completely buffer taxpayers from the burden of paying for the storm.

Local officials said the state’s committed contribution fell far below the help they received after Floyd in 1999.

That year, the state contributed $20 million in aid for residents and businesses, $20 million for counties and $10 million for programs to reduce the possibility of future floods.

Without that kind of help, officials in some of the hardest hit towns said they would have no choice but to prioritize repairs, consider sharp cutbacks on spending or turn to property owners to make up the difference.

“It’s going to mean higher taxes,” said Rochelle Park Mayor Joseph Scarpa, whose town has reported more than $800,000 in municipal damage from Irene, a figure that did not include debris removal.

“If we’re not getting the money from insurance or FEMA where else are we going to get the money from?” Scarpa said.

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125 Responses to Irene hits Jersey residents a second time

  1. grim says:

    From USA Today:

    States slow to tap $7.6B fund to help jobless pay mortgages

    A $7.6 billion federal program to help homeowners avoid foreclosures had distributed about 1% of its money to distressed owners 16 months after its creation, government reports show.

    The Obama administration awarded the funds last year to 18 states most affected by unemployment and fallen home prices. The states developed their own foreclosure-prevention programs targeting assistance to lower-income jobless and underemployed homeowners.

    By June 30, 17 states had used the funds to help about 7,500 homeowners, show reports states filed to the Treasury Department. New Jersey, which began its program in May, started making loans only this month.

    Funds are flowing more rapidly now, state officials say. All the states have launched their programs. The last was Illinois last week.

    Overall, the Hardest Hit Fund is expected to help several hundred thousand homeowners. States have until 2017 to use their alloted funds.

    “We are ramping up quickly now,” says Di Richardson, head of the California program. Its program began in January; by June 30, it had funded 1,022 homeowners. That’s now up to more than 2,000, and an additional 5,000 are close to getting aid, Richardson says.

    Since President Obama announced the program in February 2010, banks have repossessed more than 1.5 million homes, says market researcher RealtyTrac.

    Officials in many states say it took longer than expected to develop systems for states to transfer funds and borrower data to mortgage servicers, who manage loans.

    “That was more complicated than we thought it would be,” says Cynthia Flaherty, head of Ohio’s program, which includes 200 servicers. Ohio is now adding 500 borrowers to its program monthly, Flaherty says. Ten were added in December, its first month.

  2. funnelcloud says:

    Good morning New Jersey

  3. grim says:

    From the Philly Burbs:

    New Jersey: Garden State or flooded state?

    If New Jersey is the Garden State, our garden is watered by plentiful rivers, springs, streams and creeks flowing from corner to corner. Many waterways are out of sight and out of mind until they overflow their banks, as they did during Hurricane Irene and subsequent storms.

    Given the cost in dollars and human suffering, there’s no question we must act to prevent future flooding. So what can we do?

    How about starting with the causes of the problem … and it’s safe to say sprawl development is a big one.

    First and foremost, flooding is a legacy of too much pavement, concrete, parking lots and rooftops. When land is paved or compacted, it can’t absorb water. Rainwater from storms, or stormwater, runs into rivers and streams, which ultimately overflow their banks and flood homes, neighborhoods, towns and cities. The more pavement and rooftops, known as “impervious cover,” there are, the more stormwater — and the more flooding.

    Second, compounding the problem, we have a history of building — and rebuilding — in the wrong places: flood plains, wetlands, wetlands buffers and the edges of waterways. A current example is a new auto parts store under construction 20 feet from the bank of the Passaic River in Paterson, a spot so flood-prone that news reporters routinely head over there every time it floods. And there’s already an auto parts store across the street!

    Third, our human reaction is to continually rebuild our homes and businesses in floodplains and wetlands after each storm. After all, they are our homes. This is understandable but not sustainable.

    Fourth, the way we manage stormwater runoff is outdated and ineffective. For example, stormwater structures recently installed in the tiny Rose Brook watershed in Hunterdon County have turned the brook into a highly erosive stream that’s impacting the Delaware and Raritan Canal water supply, dropping wetland water tables and possibly drying up wells.

    What would it take to truly solve New Jersey’s flood problem?

  4. grim says:

    Could Greenspan have popped the housing bubble on the way up? Maybe not…

    From Bloomberg:

    China Home Prices Rise in All Cities, Defying State Curbs

    hina’s August new-home prices rose in all 70 cities monitored for the first time this year, undercutting government efforts to cool the market through higher down-payments and mortgage rates.

    Prices in Beijing advanced 1.9 percent from a year ago, while those in Shanghai, the nation’s financial center, increased 2.8 percent, the statistics bureau said on its website yesterday. New home prices climbed in 67 out of 70 cities in the first half this year and were up in all but two in July.

    China’s measures to control its property market are at a critical stage and the nation needs to focus efforts on curbing price increases in less affluent cities after limiting home purchases by each family in metropolitan areas including Beijing and Shanghai, Premier Wen Jiabao said on Sept. 1. Only two cities responded to the government’s July call for added restrictions on housing purchases, as local governments rely on land sales to pay mounting debt.

    “It’s hard to tell where the turning point of China’s housing prices is as the country is so big,” Yao said ahead of yesterday’s release. “For sure home prices will fall first in cities that imposed the strictest measures.”

    Existing home prices in Beijing last month rose 1.9 percent from a year earlier, while prices in Shanghai rose 3.7 percent, according to the statistics bureau.

    “Buyers are watching how much prices the developers will cut and more and more people are waiting,” said Jinsong Du, a Hong Kong-based property analyst for Credit Suisse Group AG. “This will first drag down the transaction volume.”

    China’s property prices may retreat in the next 12 to 18 months as banks curb loans to developers, Hong Kong billionaire developer Vincent Lo said earlier this month in an interview.

  5. It’s all going to end in tears.

    Don the gasmasks. Even Bloomberg knows the stench of death is upon us.

  6. 3b says:

    Where is everybody?? The numbers here seem to be dwindling.

  7. JJ - AKA Two Hands says:

    Laughing today, saw the 150 kids who looked like stoners march by wall street today. Cops were like wtf.

  8. grim says:

    Everyone is at grims working on the landscaping

  9. Painhrtz - Salmon of Doubt says:

    I’m starting a new job, so I’m winding down the old one

  10. gary says:

    What would it take to truly solve New Jersey’s flood problem?

    We need more Unicorns… they drink a lot of water.

  11. Morpheus says:

    well, it is up to me to increase the traffic on this blog.

    Took the su-16CA to the range two weekends ago. 180 rounds thru it. no problems. rear sights suck. Just purchased a tool to adjust the front sights, so be back at the range soon. all in all, a lot of fun to shoot. just need to adjust the front sights, which are similar to an AR-15

    Tried to purchase a mossberg maverick 88 security shotgun, but they are on back order. fine little entry level home defense shotgun. Only problem is that the cherry ridge range does not allow you to fire buckshot: only slugs and birdshot, so i will have to extrapolate patterning from birdshot to apply to #2 buckshot.

  12. grim says:

    Anyone interested in a Sig custom shop Equinox, compact .40? Sale would be through a local shop, so you’ve got to have your paperwork in order.

  13. gary says:

    3b [6],

    The numbers are dwindling because the real estate industry is hiding out in the hills of Bora Bora, the sellers are slowly conceding defeat and the Ivory Tower Charlatans have realized academia does not translate into reality.

  14. Juice Box says:

    3b – “The numbers here seem to be dwindling.” I think all of the realtors went back to hairdressing.

  15. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    OT alert

    DSK gives interview and admits the sex. As a lawyer, my thought was “WTF was he thinking????” That story was dying and he just zapped the corpse with the defib paddles.

  16. jamil says:

    15 I thought he only admitted to moral failure and did not directly comment about s.ex.

  17. Juice Box says:

    3b – They all went here

  18. Juice Box says:

    re: # 15 – He is the French version of OJ after his acquittal, nobody will be seen with him and he is no longer invited to the party. I would think his lawyers told him not to do this contrived softball interview on French TV but I gather his ego got the better of him.

  19. Libtard in Union says:

    I’m still lurking for the most part. There’s too much Jamil and his BS conservative regurgitating and not enough housing-related material. It probably doesn’t help that many of us bought homes recently as well.

    I honestly think the political BS drives a lot of people away. It scares the sheep I suppose.

  20. Anon E. Moose says:

    Nom [15];

    It was to a French news outlet; hardly a blip here. The maid’s lawyer says the interviewer was a personal friend, so DSK might have been giving that person a nice “get”. Also, DSK is running for French prez against Sarkozy, so he needs to get back into the press. Chirac had a mistress, too, so such things are hardly disquallifying for that office.

  21. Anon E. Moose says:

    Gary [13];

    the sellers are slowly conceding defeat

    Slowly being the operative word.

  22. JJ says:

    In france what DSK did was the American equivalent of putting mustard on a hamburger instead of ketchup

  23. cobbler says:

    grim [4, Chinese RE prices]

    The key difference between the Chinese RE bubble and ours is that theirs is an equivalent to gold bullion buying here (rather than something of any utility, like jewelry). Most of the condos bought in Beijing, Shanghai, etc. are sold unfinished and stay unfinished with nobody living there; also, as they are mostly sold for cash, bank rate changes have very little effect on the buyers’ behavior. Moreover, prices are out of reach for an average Chinese worker way more than it’s ever been a case over here. Rich Chinese don’t want to hold RMB cash because of the inflation, they don’t want to spend more than they are used to (savers by nature), and don’t trust stocks… so RE and commodities is what’s left.

  24. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    (16) jamil

    You’re parsing. That doesn’t fly in the court of public opinion.


    He says he isn’t running. And he still has legal liability here, so if I were his lawyer, I’d tell him to keep his fccking yap shut.

  25. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    (18) juice

    Bingo. You guessed the DSK word of the day—hubris.

  26. fka 2010 Buyer says:

    There really isn’t anything good news to read here. 4 years ago we talked about the pending doom. Now that its here, we talk nothing but the stench.

    Having said that, here’s some good news…….

    It’s been said that “where there is a brave man, in the thickest of the fight, there is the post of honor.” Today, we pay tribute to an American who placed himself in the thick of the fight — again and again and again. In so doing, he has earned our nation’s highest military decoration, the Medal of Honor. And we are extraordinarily proud of Sergeant Dakota Meyer.

  27. A.West says:

    I’m hearing that inventories are starting to pile up in Chinese real estate. Wife just told me that both lenders and borrowers in the grey financial market just started to disappear in numbers. Grey market borrowing rate is in the 30% range, historically a good bit of that went into property speculation.

    Contrary to popular belief in the US, the Chinese economy doesn’t revolve around exports, except in a few regions. The past 5 years it’s been about a construction and investment boom, led by government and property. Who thinks that will end well?

  28. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    (27) juice,

    Thanks but I was just making an observation on DSKs hubris and why it was a stupid thing to do.

    Of course, as a lawyer, I encourage stupid behavior. So maybe I shouldn’t criticize.

  29. Juice Box says:

    re: China – In case you hadn’t noticed, China is beginning to play hardball with the rest of the world. They are refusing to bail out Europe and have openly talked about dumping UST. They want to take their 3 trillion in reserves and buy up prime chunks of European and US assets.

    They question is should we allow them? They are after all still communists.

    Should we allow them to buy up prime US companies like, Exxon, Boeing and Intel?
    How about European companies like DAIMLER, Royal Dutch Shell, Siemens or Nokia?

  30. Anon E. Moose says:

    Nom [24, 29];

    I’d tell him to keep his fccking yap shut.

    Can’t argue with that. It’s just that I’m not his lawyer, I have no hope or aspiration to be his lawyer, and I don’t mind a little scandal/spectacle as much as the next J6P.

    On the bright side, O has just signed something that I might consider a jobs initiative that may show some life after all.

  31. chicagofinance says:

    The End is Nigh (Russian Billionaire Edition):!

  32. chicagofinance says:

    3b says:
    September 19, 2011 at 8:55 am
    Where is everybody?? The numbers here seem to be dwindling.

    I was too busy watching the FUKING JETS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  33. Libtard in Union says:

    I have to agree. The Jets look for real. Could you imagine if they had a real quarterback too?

  34. Morpheus says:

    why can’t we have our usual discussion about guns. This subject makes the partners at work so nervous. makes me dislike liberals: they believe that they are smarter than I, therefore, they can make decisions for me. However, conservatives also piss me off: since they are more moral than I, they can make decisions for me.

    I rather make my own decisions and not waive the party banner.

  35. Barbara says:

    Re: The deafening silence. After moving in at the beginning of the month, Fios informed us we would not be getting service until the 22nd even though they confirmed earlier the 2nd. I have been eating data plan and just doing without. Its been all 1993 up in here. Fios blamed Irene, I blame the strike.

  36. NJGator says:

    Barbara – It’s totally the strike. New tenants asked us if they could install satellite dish so they could keep DirectTV because Verizon told them it would take 60 days to get FIOS install…even though the house was already wired for it.

  37. Juice Box says:

    Did someone mention Elizabeth NJ schools?

    The president of the Elizabeth Board of Education was arrested at her home early this morning on state charges of lying to obtain free federally subsidized lunches for her two children.

  38. Juice Box says:

    from # 38 – No more free lunch?

    “About 19,000 Elizabeth students, or some 88 percent of the school population, qualified for the free or reduced-cost lunch program last year, with the district receiving received $7.6 million in assistance.”

  39. Barbara says:

    Gator, hubs won’t get directtv because Comcast blocks out the Phillies. I like DirectTv so I’m annoyed. Comcast has a bad rep so we went with Fios. I hate boys and their sports.
    On another note, got to be a braggart for a sec. This Wolf oven range is amazing. I had a Jenn Air for years and planned on upgrading after the move but really never fully appreciated what those extra BTUs can do. It sears like no other. Of course I’d love to be the wildly talented cook who can make amazing food on a 20dollar habachi, but this is thing is making my mediocre skills look good, as in delicious.

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  41. young buck aka Eastwick Pioneer says:

    Oh Sh!t. Nice.

    Juice Box says:
    September 19, 2011 at 1:07 pm
    Did someone mention Elizabeth NJ schools?

    The president of the Elizabeth Board of Education was arrested at her home early this morning on state charges of lying to obtain free federally subsidized lunches for her two children.

  42. NJGator says:

    Juice – Friend says they all should have made sure their noses were clean before going after Ray Lesniak. Karma’s a b*tch.

  43. Another called shot by Reggie Middleton:

    “I did theorize that the triumvirate, the global economic powers three, the US/China/EU were simply kicking the can down the road until one of the others simply blew up or imploded. Such an event would force capital flight from that economic machine into the other two, enabling the kick the can down the road game to go on much farther. Well, it appears that I may have been on to something, for Greece is nearly universally accepted as a default waiting to happen with yields reaching 150%, and now all of the periphery is on life support from the ECB, not one state, some states, but all of them! This has served to drive US treasury yields straight down, flirting with negative rates again… Yields have plummeted towards negative territory despite an explicit downgrade from one of the major ratings agencies. As I said, the capital flight of fright trade that basically throws the middle finger up at the ratings agencies and their opinions. The US is in bad shape. The EU is in a worse predicament for the near to medium term, and China is an inflationary fireball teetering on a deflationary collapse (once the massive NPAs garnered from bank lending and fraud run amok get recognized). The US may end up on top simply by being the best of a triumvirate of very bad situations!”

  44. Barbara says:

    Gary looking forward to that drop so I can buy more rentals. Profit margins should look good at 1999 prices. I would be able to hedge any losses on this one within a couple years and be banking monthly income there after.

  45. On bitch in jail over scammed free lunches isn’t nearly enough. Burn the whole mf’ing gubmint bureaucracy to the ground, and start over.

  46. babs (46)-

    Too bad the entire US gubmint is lined up against you on that thingy. They will eventually ruin us all in order to artificially prop up housing prices ad infinitum.

  47. Anon E. Moose says:

    Juice [38];

    The president of the Elizabeth Board of Education

    Last house I bid on was a corporate relo — the former owner is the outgoing president of the local school board. House was listed close to market, too (not close enough for my taste, but it caught plenty of buyer attention). Nice to know that the public education industry is seemingly immune from the downturn and has no qualms about taking a financial hit on real estate to move the people they want. That used to be the providnce of the private sector. When I moved to DC for my public sector job my relo budget was enough to rent a U-haul.

  48. Barbara says:

    ….did I mention I’m getting Elfa closets installed tomorrow!? *flees*

  49. Barbara says:

    There went, which is kind of why I ignore the charts, negotiated well, borrowed the max put down the least and will take my ball and play elsewhere. We will see 1299 before we see 1999.

  50. The Original NJ Expat says:

    How much did NJ real estate go for in 1299?

  51. 3b says:

    #46 Barbara: 1999 may not be a pipe dream, I am starting to see 2002 asking prices here and there. The wind is kind of out of my sails (and I am happy about it), because my wife says she is in no rush to buy, if we see something that makes sense than we buy. Oh and the landlord in my place changed his mind, said we can stay as long as we want (after I told him yet again we don’t want to buy it). There just is no pressing need for us right now, and prices will continued to go down before they ever go up. And the sort of reverse of that of course is property taxes will never go down, and always go up.

  52. Barbara says:

    3G I hope you are right. I was a bubble sitter back before anyone recognized the bubble. I would love to get back in but I see nothing but a rigged game. Kudos to the early gold bugs, they are the only winners. I wish I was smarter and could find something to do with my money.

  53. Barbara says:

    Expat ,
    Not sure as they were on a bead and scalp currency.

  54. JJ says:

    Pay off all debts, pay your RE taxes and Estimated Income taxes get three months living in bank, sell all your non dividend paying losers for tax write off and then go aggresive into stocks and non treasury bonds. This market is going to turn eventually and rates are going up. Treasuries and Gold will be crushed at some point. Blue Chip Dividend Payers and highly rated non financial junk bonds and well as financial investment grade bonds will do ok going forward. RE is also good if income producing bargain with low RE taxes and low maint pops up. But that rarely happens. I have seen short sales and BKs where with 10% down you still lose money each month.

    Barbara says:
    September 19, 2011 at 2:06 pm
    3G I hope you are right. I was a bubble sitter back before anyone recognized the bubble. I would love to get back in but I see nothing but a rigged game. Kudos to the early gold bugs, they are the only winners. I wish I was smarter and could find something to do with my money.

  55. danxp says:


    went to an open house in river edge on eastbrook… lists for $404 w/12k taxes… everything needs to be updated…

    any issue with flooding in that part of town?

  56. Juice Box says:

    Let’s have a bit of fun. Pick a costume/mask that you think one of the posters here should wear for Halloween when trick or treating with their kids this year.

    I will pick one for ChiFi

  57. 3b says:

    #58danxP: I saw the pictures for that house; talk about time warp!!!. That is a nice area, and although there is a brook near by, a friend lives there, and I do not believe they have had flood issues. Depending on where it is you might have issue with mall lights form neighboring Paramus.

    That 404K asking price is not bad considering all the homes on that street are much newer, and it would have gone north of 500K in the bubble, The taxes of course are ugly, and just FYI the north part of town has always been considered more desirable.

  58. JJ says:

    Grim can wear a scuba diver costume to prepare for him being underwater.

  59. JC says:

    My sister reads this blog sometimes, but she’d never flog her own blog here. So I will, because she’s 100% right:

  60. 3b says:

    #55 Barbara: The land of the Unicorns has lots of listings sitting and rotting, and many in the low 300’s these would all have been 400K and up. even in the lush rolling fields of towns like Wyckoff and Franklin Lakes and other upp Haughty ville towns (as gar call them, there are prices with 4 handles now; simply unheard of.

  61. young buck aka Eastwick Pioneer says:

    Where’s the governor with his 2 cents on this?

    Not sure if people realize it, but the governor is in bed with Elizabeth BOE. They were one of the few school districts that supported him during his campaign, and he’s been repaying the favor ever since.

    – appointed Superintendent of Schools Pablo Munoz to his Education transition team
    – appointed Former Board member (and true Mob boss behind the EBOE) Rafael Fajardo to his Education Effectiveness Task Force
    – appointed another EBOE insider Tony Montiero to the Red Tape Review Commission
    – approved the school budget after it was voted down, and City Council recommended various cuts
    – no mention of Pablo’s $260,000+ salary during the governor’s crusade against overpaid Superintendents
    – also rumored to have given Fajardo’s daughter a job in his administration

    NJGator says:
    September 19, 2011 at 1:46 pm
    Juice – Friend says they all should have made sure their noses were clean before going after Ray Lesniak. Karma’s a b*tch.

  62. 3b says:

    #58danxp: There is a listing on Woodland, all redone price just dropped to 399K;13k in taxes!! North end of town.

  63. danxp says:

    thanks 3b…

    my search is still ongoing and i’m getting more and more discouraged… seems all the decent properties are getting snapped up pretty quickly… i’ve been hawking the “desirable” towns in the under $600k range for the better part of 4yrs now and call me crazy, but i think there’s some kind of mini-boom happening right now… is it because of the interest rates? i thought the spring/summer selling season is over? wtf?!

    am i about to be priced out forever? i’ve still got time on my side but the government’s not cooperating with all their stimulus and other crap…

  64. JJ says:

    Lynn is a big fat hypocryte, pushing homes on unsuspecting couples while behind the scenes saying housing is a bad investment.

    JC says:
    September 19, 2011 at 2:32 pm
    My sister reads this blog sometimes, but she’d never flog her own blog here. So I will, because she’s 100% right:

  65. Painhrtz - Salmon of Doubt says:

    epat 1299 a couple of beads and a squaw probably would have done the trick for the northern part of the state

  66. danxp says:

    66 3b…

    yeah i noticed that one on woodland… hate the color and it’s got one of those driveways that i absolutely hate where you can’t park a car side-by-side… i live in one of those driveways in my rental right now and hate it with a passion…

  67. Barbara says:

    Great properties that are fairly priced are selling. Thing is, nj housing stock is pretty bad so this truth isn’t making a big dent in the charts. Sh*tty home depot renos are not cutting it anymore whereas during the bubble, people expected a 60k return on their 7 k tacky kitchen. I was involved in a fixer lowball where the greedy grubbers got all insulted and out in a lousy kitchen fit 7 k. They finally sold in 9 months later at a loss despite the reno not to mention the 9 months if prop taxes. Ok I’m taking a break, I hate typing on this thing. Hope I helped the board.

  68. B says:

    #70 dan: Understand, although I do think it is a better deal than Eastbrook. The flipper who bought I believe is going tot take a hit on it. It closed in December 2010 at 310; he has been trying to sell it for months. Seems like you are destined to becoming a Unicornian.

  69. B says:

    #67 dan: gary can comment better on the upper haughty towns, but from what I understand form him there have been bid drops in those towns too. I have not heard of any bidding wars, and the Realtor that I know (who has been honest regarding the state of the market) tells me things are dead basically all around. With these low rates houses all else being equal (which it is not,and which may explain alot) should be flying off the shelf. In teh land of Unicorns I can tell a big part of teh problem is teh obscene property taxes.

    I have noticed bid drops in Oradell too, on very nice blocks. Also I would not rule out Washington Township good schools (no train), and the housing stock appears newer, and asking prices appear very competitive. And the property taxes are very attractive.

  70. danxp says:


    i always liked river edge… the taxes were just a huge turnoff… but it shouldn’t necessarily ding the home prices that much should it?

    i’d say a house in river edge that pays 12k in taxes will probably be around 10k in neighboring oradell, but the difference in closed price is gonna be at least 40k… that gap would take 20 years to close… and who knows what the landscape will be like then?

    still looking in lots of bergen towns… i can wait…

  71. 3B says:

    #74 75 Where did my 3 go??? There, 3b, now that is better.

  72. Barbara says:

    JJ thanks for that . At least going forward I’m no longer in downpayment limbo so no reason to let it sit around in index.

  73. chicagofinance says:

    That BOE bitch from Elizabeth picked the wrong county…if she had been in Hudson, she would have got off scot-free…..

    Former Union City Mayor Rudy Garcia charged with driving under influence in Hoboken: cops
    By Summer Dawn Hortillosa / The Jersey Journal

    Thursday night at 10:49 p.m., Garcia, also a former state assemblyman, was arrested in front of 58 Paterson Ave. driving his gray Mercedes Benz under the influence, reports said.

    Sources close to the investigation who are not authorized to speak said that Garcia crashed his car into a utility pole on Paterson Avenue. Hoboken police did not provide any other details of his arrest.

    Garcia could not be reached immediately for comment.

    He is currently a partner at MBI GluckShaw, a lobbying firm in Trenton. Garcia served as an assemblyman from 1993 to 2000 and as mayor of Union City from 1998 to 2000, after then-Mayor Bruce Walter’s death.

    As mayor of Union City Garcia was blamed for the city’s fiscal problems and he was also criticized when he took $25,000 from the Union City Democratic Organization and donated it to the campaign of a Dominican Republic presidential candidate.

    Joe Shine photoThe utility pole at Jackson Street Paterson Avenue in Hoboken that police say Rudy Garcia struck Thursday night.

    He resigned in October 2000 after a recall petition garnered support and fellow Union City commissioners stripped him of virtually all his mayoral power.

    In 2008 Garcia was charged in connection with $500 million sports betting ring but a grand jury chose not to indict him.
    “I’m ready to move on and I just hope that people realize that sometimes politicians or former politicians, they get a lot of bad press, but sometimes it’s not deserved,” Garcia told The Jersey Journal at the time. “I’m happy and my family and I are just moving on with our lives. It brought me a lot closer to my church, gave me a greater sense of hope and closeness to God and my family.”

    Garcia had been charged with racketeering, conspiracy to commit money laundering, conspiracy and promoting gambling. At the time he admitted that he had placed some bets, but he said he never placed bets for others or accepted bets from anyone else.

  74. chicagofinance says:

    This fcuking thing won’t quit….
    MAKO Surgical Corp. (NasdaqGS: MAKO )
    Real Time 39.85 3.58 (9.87%) 3:08PM EDT

  75. danxp says:

    saw a house recently that came on the market in paramus…

    354 maplewood $589k – in atty review after first week on the market
    – 352 maplewood sold for $460 (reo) in 2010… there’s no way it should be 100k more than that…

  76. The Original NJ Expat says:

    69 pain – epat 1299 a couple of beads and a squaw probably would have done the trick for the northern part of the state

    Sounds like a hard currency that JJ would be/go down with.

  77. NJGator says:

    dan 76 – But your taxes will grow exponentially. That 2k difference today will be a $2,500 difference in only 5 year…and that’s if taxes in both towns grow at the same rate. Chances are the 12k town will see higher tax increases each year, because that’s how the taxes got higher in the first place. You can lock the payment on your purchase price for the term of your mortgage, you can’t lock the tax bill.

  78. 3B says:

    #81 I would say that is the excpetion, certainly not the rule in this environment.

  79. Painhrtz - Salmon of Doubt says:

    expat I didn’t say they were an*l beads,

    Had a long discussion with the wife about schools and said that is why I was adamant about certain towns. I knew I was going to lose the kids argument eventually, when we were done I asked her if she liked being priced in forever. Learned a valuable lesson never anger a woman pregnant with twins

  80. JJ says:

    Key is on anyhouse you bid on find the assessed value. If you are purchasing home for more than assessed value and it already has high taxes run away. If you are purchasing a home with high taxes at a price well below the assessed value you have a good shot at greiving your home price and getting lower taxes

    NJGator says:
    September 19, 2011 at 3:16 pm
    dan 76 – But your taxes will grow exponentially. That 2k difference today will be a $2,500 difference in only 5 year…and that’s if taxes in both towns grow at the same rate. Chances are the 12k town will see higher tax increases each year, because that’s how the taxes got higher in the first place. You can lock the payment on your purchase price for the term of your mortgage, you can’t lock the tax bill.

  81. 3B says:

    #76 Form what I have been told (Realtor) it is definitely dinging the town. One can harp on all they want about the schools, but at then end of the day 12k on a starter home in this dismal environment is a problem. The taxes in Oradell are lower, and starting on a lower base, the taxes in RE are higher, with no end in sight.

    I believe Oradell is a better run town, hands down. And the school funding fight is not over, and when it is resolved, RE will be on the losing end. Oradell will not IMO get what they want which is per pupil funding, but more of the burden will be shifted onto to RE IMO.

    Also I am finally starting to see some real downward shift in asking prices in the nicer areas of Oradell, that I believe will only continue.

    If you get to he point where you have to chose between RE or Oradell, you take Oradell hands down.

  82. 3B says:

    #85 The schools are over rated in ALL the towns.

  83. Libtard in the City says:

    I found the perfect costume for Jamil…

  84. danxp says:


    so in that eastbrook property (404k ask, 481k assessed)… you’d say there’s a good chance of getting the tax bill lowered in unicornland? even with all the appeals that are bound to happen there?

  85. chicagofinance says:

    That’s how Al Gore described the science of climate change this week, by which we suppose he meant it’s elementary and unchallengeable. Well, Mr. Vice President, meet Ivar Giaever, a 1973 physics Nobel Laureate who resigned last week from the American Physical Society in protest over the group’s insistence that evidence of man-made global warming is “incontrovertible.”

    In an email to the society, Mr. Giaever—who works at Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute—wrote that “The claim (how can you measure the average temperature of the whole earth for a whole year?) is that the temperature has changed from ~288.0 to ~288.8 degree Kelvin in about 150 years, which (if true) means to me . . . that the temperature has been amazingly stable, and both human health and happiness have definitely improved in this ‘warming’ period.”

    Mr. Giaever was an American Physical Society fellow, an honor bestowed on “only half of one percent” of the members, according to a spokesman. He follows in the footsteps of University of California at Santa Barbara Emeritus Professor of Physics Harold Lewis, a former APS fellow who resigned in 2010, calling global warming “the greatest and most successful pseudoscientific fraud I have seen in my long life as a physicist.”

    Other dissenters include Stanford University physicist and Nobelist Robert B. Laughlin, deceased green revolution icon and Nobelist Norman Borlaug, Princeton physicist William Happer and World Federation of Scientists President Antonino Zichichi. Our point is not that all of these men agree on climate change, much less mankind’s contribution to it, only that to one degree or another they maintain an open mind about warming or what to do about it.

    One of the least savory traits of climate-change advocates is how they’ve tried to bully anyone who keeps an open mind. This is true of many political projects, but it is or ought to be anathema to the scientific method. With the cap-and-trade movement stymied, Mr. Gore and the climate clan have become even more arch in their dismissals of anyone who disagrees. Readers can decide who they’d rather study physics with—Professor Giaever, or Mr. Gore’s list of politically certified instructors.

  86. Barbara says:

    JJ depends on how the town asesses . Gator will know more about it than me but many towns in nj use a % of market value and then play with the rates. The end result is a similar tax bill as your neighbor in the town over but the listed asessments will be very different.

  87. NJGator says:

    danxp 90 – In a usable sale, yes. But isn’t RE considering a reval? If they revalue, they will likely lower the assessments below current market. If this house did not drop more than houses in town did generally, you likely would wind up with the same tax bill and a lower assessment in that scenario.

  88. Libtard in the City says:

    JJ (86): “If you are purchasing a home with high taxes at a price well below the assessed value you have a good shot at greiving your home price and getting lower taxes ”

    This is exactly what WE did!

    I’m also on board with JJ with his financial plan. Inflation may have already started gaining momentum and businesses are going to turn in hurry. If you start reading about the economic recovery, then you have probably already missed half of it.

    We close on our refi in the next 7 days. We’ll let you all know how it goes. I owe Bernanke a thank you for taking 10 years off of my loan. He the man (this week).

  89. Juice Box says:

    3B what amazes me the most about haughty Bergen is towns like Paramus where they have huge commercial rateable and still high high taxes on this.

    This beauty has 22k in taxes.{scid=hdp-site-map-bubble-address}

  90. Juice Box says:

    Freedy – giving them $84 million from the state of New Jersey to move 700 jobs to Hoboken from Upper Saddle River????

  91. JJ says:

    I did that too. However, Billy Joel is the best greiver every. When he bought his LI house he claimed immediately after buying it was worth 1/2 what he paid for it as he has a long history of bad deals and overpaying for things. The courts agreed.

    Libtard in the City says:
    September 19, 2011 at 3:51 pm
    JJ (86): “If you are purchasing a home with high taxes at a price well below the assessed value you have a good shot at greiving your home price and getting lower taxes ”

    This is exactly what WE did!

  92. 3B says:

    #97 Juice: You would think that hypothetically at least in a town like Paramus, property taxes for residential properties would be almost zero, considering all the malls. That thing you posted is one of the ugliest I have seen in a while. Oh and not to correct you Paramus is not considered Upper Haughtyville, they would be appalled to have Paramus grouped with them.

  93. 3B says:

    #90 RE wants to do a reval due to the over whelming amount of tax appeals they have received over the last 2 years. It is going to cost the town 240K to conduct this, but they feel it will ultimately save the town money. By the way, they have to the borrow the money to do it, because we are broke; not a dime left in the surplus account.

  94. 3B says:

    #96 Lib: Inflation is definitely gaining momentum, but that wont lead to business hiring, just stagflation.

  95. 3B says:

    #90 Our search (when we do buy) will be limited to Hillsdale, Oradell, and Washington Township. We are just not rushing it. But of course our situation may be different than yours etc.

  96. JJ says:

    Read about the 10 jobs with the highest levels of employee unhappiness. The results may surprise you.

    1. Director of Information Technology
    For all the press that teachers and nurses get for their long hours, low pay and thankless tasks, it may be surprising to see the most hated job was that of information technology director, according to CareerBliss. After all, the salary’s pretty good and with information technology such a prevalent part of everyday business, an IT director can hold almost as much sway over the fate of some companies as a chief executive.

    Still, IT directors reported the highest level of dissatisfaction with their jobs, far surpassing that of any waitress, janitor, or bellhop. Of those who responded to the survey, one simple, five-word response summed up the antipathy very well: “Nepotism, cronyism, disrespect for workers.”

    2. Director of Sales and Marketing
    A director of sales and marketing plans implements efforts to promote companies and generate business. Responsibilities often include budget management, public relations, and employee training.

    Sales and marketing directors reported the second-highest level of job dissatisfaction of all survey respondents. The majority who responded negatively cited a lack of direction from upper management and an absence of room for growth as the main sources of their ire.

    3. Product Manager
    “Product manager” is a wide-ranging job title that takes on many meanings, depending on the company and its sector. In some cases, the job requires simply evaluating what products are best suited to a company’s business model, and in others marketing, resource management, and scheduling are involved.

    The level of job dissatisfaction was very high for this position. One respondent complained that it restricted growth, saying that it was “very hard to grow up the ranks.” Another was less polite and said “the work is boring and there’s a lot of clerical work still at my level.”

    4. Senior Web Developer
    Senior web developers design, maintain, and develop applications for the Internet. With every business expected to have some kind of Internet presence these days, developers are found working in every type of company, in a full-time, part-time, or freelance capacity.

    A senior developer is expected to be fluent in client-side and server-side contexts, and know his or her way around Python, Ruby, or whatever other arcane technology requires taming. Senior developers reported a high degree of unhappiness in their jobs, attributable to a perception their employers are unable to communicate coherently, and lack an understanding of the technology.

    [Click here to find an online degree program]

    5. Technical Specialist
    A technical specialist “leads the analysis, definition, design, construction, testing, installation, and modification of medium to large infrastructures,” according to CareerBliss. This means that if a company wants to design a project, the technical specialist evaluates it to see what’s possible and what isn’t.

    The job is a lead position that requires intimate knowledge of engineering; familiarity with Linux helps, too. However, technical specialists reported that for all their expertise, they were treated with a palpable level of disrespect. They cited a “lack of communication from upper management” and felt their “input was not taken seriously.”

    6. Electronics Technician
    Electronics technicians maintain, troubleshoot and collect monthly measurement data for electronic systems. They work in every sector and can be employed with the phone company, a chain of fast-food restaurants, or the U.S. Navy. Whatever the case, technicians work on-site and off-site, have constant contact with clients, and must have an ability to quickly solve complex technical problems under intense pressure.

    Employee dissatisfaction in this job is attributable to several factors. One respondent complained of having “too little control,” while another had a litany of complaints: “Work schedule, lack of accomplishment, no real opportunity for growth, peers have no motivation to work hard, no say in how things are done, hostility from peers towards other employees.”

    7. Law Clerk
    Clerkships are among the most highly sought-after positions in the legal profession. A law clerk assists judges as they write opinions, and the ones who get the job are almost always near the top of their class at law school. Six justices of the U.S. Supreme Court, including Elena Kagan and current Chief Justice John Roberts, were all law clerks early in their careers.

    The job clearly beefs up a resume. Yet law clerks still report high levels of dissatisfaction. The hours are long and grueling, and the clerk is subject to the whims of sometimes mercurial personalities. The Bureau of Labor Statistics also reported the job brings in a median salary of $39,780 a year—not exactly striking it rich—and those looking for advancement within the position simply will not find it.

    8. Technical Support Analyst
    Technical support analysts help people with their computer issues. This typically amounts to calmly communicating technical advice to panicked individuals, often over the phone, and then going on site to find the client simply hadn’t turned the printer on.

    Technical support analysts often work in a variety of environments, and they may be required to travel at a moment’s notice, sometimes on holidays or weekends. After all, there’s no telling when a client’s computer-whiz nephew might make a minor tweak to his machine, with disastrous results.

    In the words of one of the respondents, “You can do better, really.”

    9. CNC Machinist
    CNC machinists operate computer numerical control machines. For the uninitiated, this is a machine that operates a lathe or a mill. On the upside, it renders obsolete processes that used to be performed by hand, at a slow pace and with high risk to the operator’s life and limb.

    Now that the CNC operator has had most of the physical hazards of manufacturing replaced by a machine, there’s not a lot to do but push buttons and perform equipment inspections to make sure the coolant is at a safe level. Since it’s a specialized skill, the job offers no room for advancement, which caused respondents to report a high degree of dissatisfaction.

    10. Marketing Manager
    A marketing manager is responsible for overseeing advertising and promotion. This involves developing strategies to meet sales objectives, based on the study of such factors as customer surveys and market behavior.

    According to CareerBliss, respondents in this position most often cited a lack of direction as the primary reason for job dissatisfaction. The most optimistic respondent described it as “tolerable,” and gave it the faintest praise possible by saying, “It’s a job.” (In this labor market, that’s not such a bad thing.)

  97. 3B says:

    danxp: Here is a nice house in Oradell a little dated, but appears to be well taken care of, 75×100 lot. Realy nice street too. On the market a little over 2 months, one price reduction. Now listed at 494K, taxes are under 11k. Same house in RE taxes would be 14k or more. Oh and it sold in 2005 for 645k!!!

  98. The Original NJ Expat says:

    I did that too. However, Billy Joel is the best greiver every. When he bought his LI house he claimed immediately after buying it was worth 1/2 what he paid for it as he has a long history of bad deals and overpaying for things. The courts agreed. His Hamptons house or his “starter” home on Lloyd Harbor Road in Huntington?

  99. Happy Renter says:

    Super helpful information for sellers from MSN:

    “Home odors that will scare off buyers”

    Outside sniffers – The best way to find out whether a house smells OK is to “ask someone who doesn’t live there to come inside and give an opinion,” Gupta says.

    Clot maybe there is money to be made going from house-to-house and identifying the Stench of Death . . .

  100. danxp says:


    not terrible… i might be interested if the price were closer to 400…

  101. NJGator says:

    The end is nigh. Nancy Grace on Dancing with the Stars tonight. I think the fat lady has officially sung.

  102. 3b says:

    #108 It may get closer to that price than you might think.

  103. 3b (72)-

    Seems to me the only people getting blackmailed are the JQPs in Germany, who will end up eating all of Greece’s shit paper.

  104. freedy says:

    Nancy Grace on Dancing. Who’s next The Clinton woman. Good grief what has it come to ?

  105. gator (109)-

    Dancing would be a lot better show if the losers every week faced a firing squad.

  106. NJGator says:

    Doom – who would you eliminate first on your DWTS Survivor Pool – Nancy or Chaz Bono?

  107. Juice Box says:

    S&P Downgrades Italy, might be time to book another trip. Anyone here ever spend Christmas in the Italian Alps?

  108. Gator (114)-

    Tie them together, and feed them to piranhas.

  109. NJGator says:

    In other news today, Jerry Fried released his strategic vision for Montclair. Let’s just say we are doomed…

  110. Just Toast says:

    Fios Question – is it possible to just have the name on the account switched over to the new tenant to avoid the service disruption and is the poor service starting new Fios service limited to specific areas of NJ.

    Meat – try Boarding Pass Shiraz at your place – decent stuff with a fun label around $4 for a 175ml bottle.

  111. toast (122)-

    Thanks for the tip, but I loathe Australian wine. I have tried and tried; it is just a personal failing of mine.

  112. gator (121)-

    Nice to see that Mayor Fraud’s only real problem is that he is a certifiable imbecile.

  113. “Hurricane or not, Irene is on track to becoming one of the most expensive natural disasters in North Jersey’s history, with preliminary estimates from the region’s municipal governments totaling in the tens of millions of dollars, public records show.”- This is the worst thing after a disaster is the aftermath of it. I hope New Jersey will recover very soon.

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