From Bloomberg:
U.S. Home Prices Fell 2.8% in October From Prior Year, FHFA Says
U.S. home prices fell 2.8 percent in October from a year earlier, the Federal Housing Finance Agency said, as foreclosures continued to depress real estate values.
The slump was led by the regions that include Nevada and Arizona, and California and Washington, which both had a 5.5 percent decrease, the agency said today in a report from Washington. The region that includes Illinois and Ohio had the second-largest decline of 3.9 percent.
…
Home prices in October dropped 0.2 percent from the previous month on a seasonally adjusted basis, according to the FHFA. That was worse than economists’ projection of an increase of 0.2 percent, the average of 16 estimates in a Bloomberg survey.The FHFA’s U.S. House Price Index is 19.2 percent below its April 2007 peak and about the same as the February 2004 level, according to the report.
From Bloomberg:
Decline in U.S. Home Values Smallest in Four Years, Zillow Says
U.S. home values probably will have their smallest decrease in four years in 2011 after the decline in property prices slowed, Zillow Inc. said today.
…
An increase in buyer demand is needed before property values can begin to recover, Zillow said. Low borrowing costs may be helping, with sales of existing homes rising in November to a 10-month high, according to a National Association of Realtors report yesterday.“While homeowners suffered through another year of steep losses, the good news is that homes are losing value at a substantially slower pace as the market works its way towards the bottom,” Stan Humphries, Zillow’s chief economist, said in today’s statement.
While property values declined at a slower pace this year, an oversupply of homes for sale, low consumer confidence and an 8.6 percent unemployment rate will continue to weigh on the market and probably keep it from recovering until late next year or early 2013, Humphries said.
Interesting!
Details from the FHFA:
FHFA House Price Index Falls 0.2 Percent in October
From the WSJ:
New Sky High In Manhattan
Despite sluggish sales in the rest of the Manhattan apartment market, demand for New York’s most-expensive trophy properties has been soaring, drawing multimillionaire buyers from around the world and even some at home.
Brokers say that there is a shortage of trophy apartments—those with unrivaled views and features and international bragging rights—that has driven prices on some properties far above levels seen during the real-estate boom, at least on a per-square-foot basis.
The latest trophy example came this week, when a Russian billionaire, Dmitry Rybolovlev, issued a statement saying his 22-year-old daughter, Ekaterina, a student, was in contract to buy one of the best-known apartments in New York: the sprawling penthouse with a wrap-around terrace at 15 Central Park West.
The apartment was owned by Sanford I. Weill, the former chairman and chief executive of Citigroup Inc., who said he would donate the proceeds to charity.
Mr. Weill decided to list the 6,744-square-foot penthouse on the 20th floor at $88 million last month, a breathtaking price for the New York market, where the previous high sale had been a $53 million townhouse sale back in 2006.
…
So far this year, seven sales have been recorded for $30 million or more, city property records show, with the highest apartment being a $48 million purchase at the Plaza Hotel. The buyer was another Russian, Igor Krutoy, a composer and music promoter, who made a fortune with investments in Russian media.
Not counting the Weill penthouse deal, the number of closed sales at or above $30 million recorded to date is the highest since 2008, when there were 21 such sales, and the third-highest totals on record.
During the boom years, it was news when an apartment hit $6,000 a square foot. By this measure, the trophy market is higher than ever. The Weill sale at the full asking price works out to $13,048 a square foot, topping the previous high sale at $9,940 a square foot in the same building a year earlier.
…
Jonathan Miller, an appraiser and president of Miller Samuel Inc., said the Weill apartment sale was “not a proxy for the New York City housing market.”
“It just means that you’ve got a tremendous amount of wealth moving around right now, and apparently New York is seen as safe,” he said.
From Forbes:
The Most Outrageous Home Sales Of 2011
“I’ve been rich and I’ve been poor. Believe me, honey, rich is better.” –Sophie Tucker
From the Courier Post:
Movin’ on out: More New Jersey residents opting to flee
Many people may be leaving Las Vegas these days, but many more have been exiting New Jersey.
An annual study released Wednesday by United Van Lines — the nation’s largest moving company — shows that Garden Staters are moving out at a high rate. New Jersey and Illinois are tied for the largest outbound migration, with 60.5 percent of those moves involving people heading out.
“This is certainly not the kind of list we want to be at the top of,” said state Senate President Stephen M. Sweeney of Gloucester County.
“It shows a need to not only reduce the cost of living in New Jersey, especially for middle-class families, but to also make the state more attractive to business and folks seeking employment.”
…
“This is a trend that has been going on in New Jersey for years,” said Robert Russon, executive director of the New Jersey Warehousemen and Moving Association.
“What the study means, basically, is that more people are moving out than are moving in,” added Russo. “Why? Taxes are high and unemployment levels are high. Property taxes (in the state) are probably one of the biggest factors in discouraging people from moving here.”
…
Several states in the Northeast saw more people moving out than in, according to the study. New York saw 58.1 percent of movers saying goodbye to the Empire State. New Hampshire bid farewell to 56.7 percent of those who moved, and 55.1 percent of those moving in Connecticut made themselves former residents.
NJ is a f’ing sinkhole. Might not make it here another four years. Youngest can go to HS anywhere; he is a good kid and good student.
Latest Taibbi:
“People like Dimon, and Schwarzman, and John Paulson, and all of the rest of them who think the “imbeciles” on the streets are simply full of reasonless class anger, they don’t get it. Nobody hates them for being successful. And not that this needs repeating, but nobody even minds that they are rich.
What makes people furious is that they have stopped being citizens.
Most of us 99-percenters couldn’t even let our dogs leave a dump on the sidewalk without feeling ashamed before our neighbors. It’s called having a conscience: even though there are plenty of things most of us could get away with doing, we just don’t do them, because, well, we live here. Most of us wouldn’t take a million dollars to swindle the local school system, or put our next door neighbors out on the street with a robosigned foreclosure, or steal the life’s savings of some old pensioner down the block by selling him a bunch of worthless securities.
But our Too-Big-To-Fail banks unhesitatingly take billions in bailout money and then turn right around and finance the export of jobs to new locations in China and India. They defraud the pension funds of state workers into buying billions of their crap mortgage assets. They take zero-interest loans from the state and then lend that same money back to us at interest. Or, like Chase, they bribe the politicians serving countries and states and cities and even school boards to take on crippling debt deals.
Nobody with real skin in the game, who had any kind of stake in our collective future, would do any of those things. Or, if a person did do those things, you’d at least expect him to have enough shame not to whine to a Bloomberg reporter when the rest of us complained about it.”
http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/blogs/taibblog/a-christmas-message-from-americas-rich-20111222#ixzz1hMQOwV2C
Dimon, Schwartzman, Buffet, Blankfein…=Luciano, Capone, Gotti, Schultz…
Just like the local gangster had the local police chief, judges etc on the payroll now the banksters have done the same – a government willing to look the other way while they do their dirty deeds and puts on a worthless dog and pony show when any of it is brought to light with a subsequent slap on the wrist and miniscule fine.
Sometimes I wonder if the events of 9/11 occurred today as opposed to in 2001 if the only people celebrating would still just be a few discontented Muslims out in Patterson.
Transparency . Thats the new word for 2012 .
Good Morning New Jersey
Turns out the NAR only takes in 15% of the nation. The rest is guess work. Nice .
What a world .
“What the study means, basically, is that more people are moving out than are moving in,” added Russo. “Why? Taxes are high and unemployment levels are high. Property taxes in NJ are probably one of the biggest factors in discouraging people from moving here.”
Another 15% to 20% decline in median house prices in NJ by 2014.
MERRY CHRISTMAS!!! There I said it, no Happy Holidays, no seasons greetings. It is Xmas time baby and Santa better bring me a Jets win on Christmas Eve!!
NJ Houses are over priced simply because people don’t want to pay that much. Amazon priced the Kindle Fire at $199 as that is price needed to sell a lot of them. If the priced higher very few would sell and would require lots and lots of marketing.
A POS BC Cape at 599K also does not sell but a POS BC Cape at 199K would sell. Maybe Jeff Bezos should head the NAR as Amazon knows how to price things to sell.
JJ – Buyers love the 3 handle in BC.
Who here said we’d never see a 3-handle again in Ridgewood? Plenty of them, and buyers are eating them up quick. Here is the last 2 months or so.
Ridgewood, Wyckoff, Oakland, Ramsey, Allendale, Mahwah, Midland Park.
100 Glen in Midland – 15 days on market – sold at $281k
37 Pine Hill in Mahwah – 3 days on market – sold at $290k
203 Glen in Midland – 18 days on market – sold at $300k
18 Andover in Glen Rock – 25 days on market – sold at $325k
56 Cottage in Midland – 2 days on market – sold at $327k
188 Hiawatha in Oakland – 19 days on market – sold at $331k
36 Van Schaik in Wyckoff – 27 days on market – sold at $349k
7 Holyoke in Oakland – 11 days on market – sold at $372k
30 Wanamaker in Mahwah – 28 days on market – sold at $380k
221 Van Houten i nWyckoff – 42 days on market – sold at $400k
480 Lincoln in Wyckoff – 46 days on market – sold at $410k
74 Harding in Wyckoff – 26 days on market – sold at $415k
635 Kingsbridge in Ridgewood – 34 days on market – sold at $415k
Some recent solds in Ridgewood, last 3 months. Hardly an “unaffordable” town these days.
699 Midwood – $300k
349 Somerville – $340k
947 Andover – $350k (Sold for $443k in 2003)
421 Van Buren – $359k
512 Jackson – $365k
570 Shelton, $392k (Sold for $405 in 2003)
645 Doris – $399k (Sold for $415k in 2003)
388 N Monroe – $410k
439 Sheffield – $410k
242 Gateway – $415k
635 Kingsbridge – $415k
How about this one?
262 Gateway – $475k (Original list price was $825k in 2006)
grim [15],
That’s house p0rn at its best!!
Odd part is first time home buyers today will be trapped in those homes for life similar to people who bought at the height of RE Market.
Someone buys one of those 400K starters with 20% down on a 30 year mortgage and buys points is getting in at 3.75% interest. Which is only like a 1,200 a month mortgage. Plus they get a chance to grieve taxes as house is most likely assessed higher.
Flash forward ten years when they want to trade up when rates are more like 8% for a 30 year mortgage and taxes double or triple what they are paying now. They will be like the 50 year old couples I see shoe horned into a rent stablized one bedroom apt in manhatten that one of the spouses “inherited’ from grandma. They are paying 700 a month for a one bedroom apartment but to trade up to a non rent stablized two bedroom apt at market rate they would be paying almost 5k a month. So they sit in the shoe box. 30 year mortgages taken out on homes at the time of a all time record low in mortgage rates may set up same thing. This happend in the time period of 70s to around 92. Mortgages taken out in the 50/60s were only at 6% and by 1982 rates were 16%. Good luck trading up.
grim says:
December 23, 2011 at 8:55 am
JJ – Buyers love the 3 handle in BC.
Who here said we’d never see a 3-handle again in Ridgewood? Plenty of them, and buyers are eating them up quick.
JJ – What is the alternative? Similar rentals in Ridgewood are going for $2500 a month. Looking at PITI, cost to rent = cost to buy in some of these cases.
They will be like the 50 year old couples I see shoe horned into a rent stablized one bedroom apt in manhatten that one of the spouses “inherited’ from grandma. They are paying 700 a month for a one bedroom apartment but to trade up to a non rent stablized two bedroom apt at market rate they would be paying almost 5k a month. So they sit in the shoe box.
Boo hoo, poor babies. They could have probably bought a modest house in the mountains or near the shore with the money that the rent control saved them over the past 30 years.
Besides, you’ll have an easier time selling a 50 year old starter in 25 years (as a 75 year old starter), than trying to sell an oversized 00’s BC McMansion (if it’s still even standing in 25 years).
clot: in your honor………
One of Bernhard Goetz’s victims kills self on anniversary of subway shoot
By JOSH SAUL
Exactly 27 years to the day after Bernhard Goetz — famous in New York lore as the “Subway Vigilante’’ — shot four young men he thought were threatening him on a train, one of them killed himself by swallowing prescription pills in a low-rent Bronx motel, authorities said.
James Ramseur, 45, was found dead of an apparent overdose at 11:30 a.m. yesterday at the Paradise Hotel at 2990 Boston Road, law-enforcement sources said last night.
He was in bed and fully clothed.
Ramseur had checked in Tuesday and paid for two nights. He was supposed to check out yesterday morning.
Associated Press
Bernhard Goetz (left) in custody days after the NYPD launched a manhunt for the “Subway Vigilante” who had shot four young muggers, including James Ramseur, on Dec. 22, 1984. Ramseur was found dead yesterday.
When he failed to show up at the front desk, hotel staff went to his room and discovered his body.
In the toilet was the bottle that had contained the pills that apparently killed him.
But Ramseur had scraped the label off so the pills could not be identified, and toxicology tests will take at least a month.
Ramseur had an ID card on him, so he was identified immediately.
No suicide note was found and there were no wounds on the body.
Police believe he had spent the entire time in the hotel alone. They knew of no visitors.
Cops called Ramseur’s sister, and she confirmed his identity and his role in the storied 1984 shooting incident.
Ramseur had gotten out of prison only 17 months ago, after serving 25 years upstate for raping a young woman on a Bronx rooftop.
The shooting took place on Dec. 22, 1984, when Ramseur, 18, and neighborhood pals Darrell Cabey, Barry Allen and Troy Canty, all 19, were riding a downtown No. 2 train.
As it approached Chambers Street, they encountered Goetz, an electronics specialist. What ensued is in dispute.
Goetz told authorities the intimidating youths demanded $5 from him. The teens insisted they were only panhandling.
Goetz fired five shots from his Smith & Wesson, hitting all of them.
Ramseur was wounded in the arm.
Many residents of the city, which was then undergoing an unprecedented era of street crime, hailed him as a hero.
But since the four youths were black, others called him a racist.
He was convicted of illegally possessing a loaded firearm, but cleared of the more serious charges — four counts of attempted murder.
Cabey, who was paralyzed when Goetz shot him at close range, won a $43 million lawsuit. Goetz declared bankruptcy and hasn’t paid a dime.
Cabey, by far the most seriously injured, still is confined to a wheelchair and functions with the intellect of an 8-year-old.
Allen was convicted of robbery in 1991 and released from prison four years later.
Canty racked up a string of petty offenses and once served 18 months in a residential drug- treatment program.
chicagofinance says:
Your comment is awaiting moderation.
December 23, 2011 at 9:17 am
clot: in your honor………
One of Bernhard Goetz’s victims kills self on anniversary of subway shoot
By JOSH SAUL
Exactly 27 years to the day after Bernhard Goetz — famous in New York lore as the “Subway Vigilante’’ — shot four young men he thought were threatening him on a train, one of them killed himself by swallowing prescription pills in a low-rent Bronx motel, authorities said.
James Ramseur, 45, was found dead of an apparent overdose at 11:30 a.m. yesterday at the Paradise Hotel at 2990 Boston Road, law-enforcement sources said last night.
He was in bed and fully clothed.
Ramseur had checked in Tuesday and paid for two nights. He was supposed to check out yesterday morning.
Associated Press
Bernhard Goetz (left) in custody days after the NYPD launched a manhunt for the “Subway Vigilante” who had shot four young muggers, including James Ramseur, on Dec. 22, 1984. Ramseur was found dead yesterday.
When he failed to show up at the front desk, hotel staff went to his room and discovered his body.
In the toilet was the bottle that had contained the pills that apparently killed him.
But Ramseur had scraped the label off so the pills could not be identified, and toxicology tests will take at least a month.
Ramseur had an ID card on him, so he was identified immediately.
No suicide note was found and there were no wounds on the body.
Police believe he had spent the entire time in the hotel alone. They knew of no visitors.
Cops called Ramseur’s sister, and she confirmed his identity and his role in the storied 1984 shooting incident.
Ramseur had gotten out of prison only 17 months ago, after serving 25 years upstate for raping a young woman on a Bronx rooftop.
The shooting took place on Dec. 22, 1984, when Ramseur, 18, and neighborhood pals Darrell Cabey, Barry Allen and Troy Canty, all 19, were riding a downtown No. 2 train.
As it approached Chambers Street, they encountered Goetz, an electronics spec!alist. What ensued is in dispute.
Goetz told authorities the intimidating youths demanded $5 from him. The teens insisted they were only panhandling.
Goetz fired five shots from his Smith & Wesson, hitting all of them.
Ramseur was wounded in the arm.
Many residents of the city, which was then undergoing an unprecedented era of street crime, hailed him as a hero.
But since the four youths were black, others called him a racist.
He was convicted of illegally possessing a loaded firearm, but cleared of the more serious charges — four counts of attempted murder.
Cabey, who was paralyzed when Goetz shot him at close range, won a $43 million lawsuit. Goetz declared bankruptcy and hasn’t paid a dime.
Cabey, by far the most seriously injured, still is confined to a wheelchair and functions with the intellect of an 8-year-old.
Allen was convicted of robbery in 1991 and released from prison four years later.
Canty racked up a string of petty offenses and once served 18 months in a residential drug- treatment program.
chicagofinance says:
Your comment is awaiting moderation.
December 23, 2011 at 9:17 am
clot: in your honor………
One of Bernhard Goetz’s victims kills self on anniversary of subway shoot
By JOSH SAUL
Exactly 27 years to the day after Bernhard Goetz — famous in New York lore as the “Subway Vigilante’’ — shot four young men he thought were threatening him on a train, one of them killed himself by swallowing prescription pills in a low-rent Bronx motel, authorities said.
James Ramseur, 45, was found dead of an apparent overdose at 11:30 a.m. yesterday at the Paradise Hotel at 2990 Boston Road, law-enforcement sources said last night.
He was in bed and fully clothed.
Ramseur had checked in Tuesday and paid for two nights. He was supposed to check out yesterday morning.
When he failed to show up at the front desk, hotel staff went to his room and discovered his body.
In the toilet was the bottle that had contained the pills that apparently killed him.
But Ramseur had scraped the label off so the pills could not be identified, and toxicology tests will take at least a month.
Ramseur had an ID card on him, so he was identified immediately.
No suicide note was found and there were no wounds on the body.
Police believe he had spent the entire time in the hotel alone. They knew of no visitors.
Cops called Ramseur’s sister, and she confirmed his identity and his role in the storied 1984 shooting incident.
Ramseur had gotten out of prison only 17 months ago, after serving 25 years upstate for raping a young woman on a Bronx rooftop.
The shooting took place on Dec. 22, 1984, when Ramseur, 18, and neighborhood pals Darrell Cabey, Barry Allen and Troy Canty, all 19, were riding a downtown No. 2 train.
As it approached Chambers Street, they encountered Goetz, an electronics spe$ialist. What ensued is in dispute.
Goetz told authorities the intimidating youths demanded $5 from him. The teens insisted they were only panhandling.
Goetz fired five shots from his Smith & Wesson, hitting all of them.
Ramseur was wounded in the arm.
Many residents of the city, which was then undergoing an unprecedented era of street crime, hailed him as a hero.
But since the four youths were black, others called him a racist.
He was convicted of illegally possessing a loaded firearm, but cleared of the more serious charges — four counts of attempted murder.
Cabey, who was paralyzed when Goetz shot him at close range, won a $43 million lawsuit. Goetz declared bankruptcy and hasn’t paid a dime.
Cabey, by far the most seriously injured, still is confined to a wheelchair and functions with the intellect of an 8-year-old.
Allen was convicted of robbery in 1991 and released from prison four years later.
Canty racked up a string of petty offenses and once served 18 months in a residential drug- treatment program.
grim please unmod this….
#15 and #16
a -sort of – triumphant return of “comp killers.”
thanks for that.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/12/22/us-foreclosures-idUSTRE7BL0MC20111222
Grim [6];
“Movin’ Out”
Who needs a house out in Hackensack?
Is that all you get for your money?
(6) grim,
No one leaves, or won’t come here, because of taxes and high operating costs. It’s a myth. Ask any liberal.
BoA Settlement:
Now 5-6 years on the other side of the bubble mania, the only thing that Holder can get interested enough in is to squeeze BoA (who didn’t do what they are paying for – they bought the problem in a shotgun wedding) for $335MM as reparations for race discrimination. Because, as everyone knows, the Tan Man Mozillo didn’t put any white people in destined-to-fail loans. Some 200k people stand to get roughly $1,500 each, less after lawyers fees. Maybe enough for one mortgage payment.
This is supposed to be a Justice Department? How fitting that the bag man extraordinare is named “Holder”. Carrying the money; carrying the water; when do we get to see him walking Obama’s dog?
Why rent a house? Today young couples are like child life Elfs who never grow up. They get married wait several years to have kids and then have only one or two. If you have one, get a two bedroom apt, if you have two who are not same sex once they are a few years old maybe rent house, if you have three or more house rental makes sense.
I see so many people at work who live in NJ with no kids, one kid or two kids same sex and they have big houses. Why they don’t need them. My friend just rented a two bedroom apt in Battery Park city. He only has one kid. He sold his place for 1.5 million. Invested that money and rented a place for only 3,500 a month. No cars, no heat, no maint, he walks to work and elementary school downtown is great. He leaves work at six and is home by 6:05. He works in World Financial Center so it is a walk down a path. Apt is automatcially rent stablized so he is protected from rising rents. Home ownership in NJ really makes no sense for a couple with no kids or one kids. When you add it up just a money pit. I lived in city for a few years, much cheaper when you back out no car, no heat, no gas bill. Just electricity and cable. Electricity was $20 bucks a month as in an apt everything is off most of time. The surburban dream is dead.
grim says:
December 23, 2011 at 9:11 am
JJ – What is the alternative? Similar rentals in Ridgewood are going for $2500 a month. Looking at PITI, cost to rent = cost to buy in some of these cases.
I find it highly amusing that the alway tanned and dark Mozillo could descriminate against people of color. Whole concept is stupid. American Express CEO is black, does that mean they can overcharge black people?
Anon E. Moose says:
December 23, 2011 at 9:44 am
BoA Settlement:
Now 5-6 years on the other side of the bubble mania, the only thing that Holder can get interested enough in is to squeeze BoA (who didn’t do what they are paying for – they bought the problem in a shotgun wedding) for $335MM as reparations for race discrimination. Because, as everyone knows, the Tan Man Mozillo didn’t put any white people in destined-to-fail loans. Some 200k people stand to get roughly $1,500 each, less after lawyers fees. Maybe enough for one mortgage payment.
This is supposed to be a Justice Department? How fitting that the bag man extraordinare is named “Holder”. Carrying the money; carrying the water; when do we get to see him walking Obama’s dog?
#26 – why is that a liberal/conservative issue?
262 Gateway – $475k (Original list price was $825k in 2006)
Any questions?
Having thoroughly destroyed this country, retiring Boomers look abroad to find the standard of living to which they’ve become accustomed.
http://blogs.the-american-interest.com/wrm/2011/12/22/the-american-dream-packs-its-bags/
Con’t [32];
Just like Locusts.
Moose rep Allan West called Holder on his use of the race card over Fast and Furious. Holder should go just for that, never mind any other dog walking he is doing.
What’s Ron Paul investing in? According to one analyst: ”This portfolio is a half-step away from a cellar-full of canned goods and nine-millimeter rounds”.
http://blogs.wsj.com/totalreturn/2011/12/21/the-ron-paul-portfolio/
Re: 32 – Had a talk with the two in my family about downsizing, big house in the midwest. He wants another year to look for a job. He is out of work again 2nd time since 2008. Other than the 401k and the house they will be pretty bust soon WE told them that it would be cheaper for us to buy them a house in Michigan near their son than to continue to help them finacially to stay in the house. I don’t think my FIL likes me too much today.
I am pretty sure i will be getting a visit from the ghost of Christmas future tonig ht. This is my 6th trip out in the midwest for Christmas and it may be my last.
That is why I like my European born in-laws they could be millionaires or eating out of trash can, they just don’t discuss money. Have no clue if they have a nickle in bank or what they make.
Why don’t they just rent house if they can’t sell and move in with son. If they are broke how can they afford a house in Mich anyhow. Heat alone in Mich will kill you. Also moving near son does not solve problem a job does, they should move whereever he finds a job and then rent the cheapest hell hole possible while they re-fill their savings and then buy a house in a cheap place when they retire.
My wife claims not having a mortgage or debt is like an anchor off her back. Even though you lose tax advantages. taking money from 401k to pay debt is very risky indeed, if you end up bk anyhow you just wasted your retirement savings. There is a reason the IRS has a catch up provision for people over 50. Money compounds over time plus there is a limit to how much you can put in a 401K or IRA pretty much if by 50 you have not saved for retirement it is game over. 1993-1999 we had a huge run up in stocks that saved many a retiree who retired in 2000. Those lucky folks like my Mom who retired in 1992 were selling stocks every year between 1993 and 2001 and lucked out as they put in when stocks were dirt cheap between the 70s and early 90s and withdrew during bull market, my inlaws were lucky too as they retired in 2003 and at least were selling stocks in 2004, 2005, 2006, 2007 and 2008. But imagine guy who retired Spring 2008 which one million in the 401K and plans to withdrawl 5% a year, for next 20 years in retirement, well say hi to him next time you are in trader joe and ask for paper instead of plastic.
Juice Box says:
December 23, 2011 at 10:20 am
Re: 32 – Had a talk with the two in my family about downsizing, big house in the midwest. He wants another year to look for a job. He is out of work again 2nd time since 2008. Other than the 401k and the house they will be pretty bust soon WE told them that it would be cheaper for us to buy them a house in Michigan near their son than to continue to help them finacially to stay in the house. I don’t think my FIL likes me too much today.
Sounds like defective christmas lights that “accidentially” burn house down while family is at xmas mass may be best gift of all for these people.
Juice Box says:
December 23, 2011 at 10:35 am
I am pretty sure i will be getting a visit from the ghost of Christmas future tonig ht. This is my 6th trip out in the midwest for Christmas and it may be my last.
JJ about 240k in equity all a fire would do is extinguish that. Only two houses sold in this high end development in the last few years, there simply aren’t enough high earners out here anymore. Taxes are 12k allot for this state. If they move MILs home based business pulling in about 40k goes under. They were lectured last night, no more direct tv with all of the packages get rid of the BMW, VETTE AND THE SUV. They need to cut a grand a month in spending ASAP or we won’t help anymore. Being 62 and out of work and having to downsize is a bitter pill to swallow.
Redux [32];
Its OK because cheap flights and Skype let them keep in touch with the decendants they left to tend the ruins.
JJ house in Michigan a different state in a nice suburb runs about 125k and taxes are like 2k. I could pay cash and the upkeep and take their savings, 401K and equity and help them invest so they can make it another three decades. People in this family live to high 80s and women past 100 in good health. Out here the elderly stay in their homes usually till the day they die. We are headed to 99 year old grandmas house she is hosting 20 poeple and doing allot of the cooking. A little change however for them is the hard part, I guess that is why stubborn poeple live longer.
Sell the cars, cut the bills. 62 and out of work with debt and expenses is bad news.
If rather than cut lifestyle now they start hitting 401K and applying for early SS they will be an even bigger problem at 70. That as when you are near broke cant risk money in high yield bonds or stock and there is no safe money way to earn yield. They are screwed. Even if he gets a great job he needs to work five more years and cut back.
Juice Box says:
December 23, 2011 at 11:20 am
JJ about 240k in equity all a fire would do is extinguish that. Only two houses sold in this high end development in the last few years, there simply aren’t enough high earners out here anymore. Taxes are 12k allot for this state. If they move MILs home based business pulling in about 40k goes under. They were lectured last night, no more direct tv with all of the packages get rid of the BMW, VETTE AND THE SUV. They need to cut a grand a month in spending ASAP or we won’t help anymore. Being 62 and out of work and having to downsize is a bitter pill to swallow
[30] seif
“#26 – why is that a liberal/conservative issue?”
Because the left and right made it so.
While the argument that high taxes and other costs deter inmigration and cause outmigration seems ridiculously intuitive, and is often made by those on the right in support of whatever policy, there are deniers (denyers?) of this argument. And I noticed that they uniformly hew to the left.
Curiously, while some on the left deny that it is even an issue, others on the left want to take steps to prevent this nonexistent problem from getting worse. For example, CBPP and TJN often argue that the feds should prevent states from offering up the assymetries (read: incentives) that would exacerbate this (nonexistent?) migration.
Further, some states even will go after outmigrants, claiming that the outmigration was done for tax reasons (google Hyatt v. Calif. Franchise Tax Board for a particularly nasty example, complete with dumpster diving in Nevada by FTB agents). This further vitiates the left’s argument that outmigration is a specious argument contrived by the right. After all, why fight a problem that doesn’t exist?
Personally, I don’t mind that there are deniers, and I hope that they keep right on denying.
Trouble is even people like me this year have no clue what to invest in for people who need safety and on a fixed income. 2011 was munis, 2010/2009 was corporate investment grade and 2006-2008 was treasuries and before that 1992-2005 you could just roll five year cds or do MBS govt backed for yield. All of the above yields nothing now. Junk Bonds, Stocks and non govt MBS have yield but high risk. There is no place to safely invest an older persons money who is in a very low risk tollerance and get a return. And not changing to most likely 2015.
Juice Box says:
December 23, 2011 at 11:20 am
JJ about 240k in equity all a fire would do is extinguish that. Only two houses sold in this high end development in the last few years, there simply aren’t enough high earners out here anymore. Taxes are 12k allot for this state. If they move MILs home based business pulling in about 40k goes under. They were lectured last night, no more direct tv with all of the packages get rid of the BMW, VETTE AND THE SUV. They need to cut a grand a month in spending ASAP or we won’t help anymore. Being 62 and out of work and having to downsize is a bitter pill to swallow
JJ: we rent 2900 sq.ft and it is a total crock……we have no use for the addl 1000 sq ft….I grew up in the 2BR apt in Flushing…plenty of space….when I went to college, did it matter that I had a roommate? No…kids today a spoiled….
JJ says:
December 23, 2011 at 9:46 am
Why rent a house? Today young couples are like child life Elfs who never grow up. They get married wait several years to have kids and then have only one or two. If you have one, get a two bedroom apt, if you have two who are not same sex once they are a few years old maybe rent house, if you have three or more house rental makes sense.
I see so many people at work who live in NJ with no kids, one kid or two kids same sex and they have big houses. Why they don’t need them. My friend just rented a two bedroom apt in Battery Park city. He only has one kid. He sold his place for 1.5 million. Invested that money and rented a place for only 3,500 a month. No cars, no heat, no maint, he walks to work and elementary school downtown is great. He leaves work at six and is home by 6:05. He works in World Financial Center so it is a walk down a path. Apt is automatcially rent stablized so he is protected from rising rents. Home ownership in NJ really makes no sense for a couple with no kids or one kids. When you add it up just a money pit. I lived in city for a few years, much cheaper when you back out no car, no heat, no gas bill. Just electricity and cable. Electricity was $20 bucks a month as in an apt everything is off most of time. The surburban dream is dead.
Just got tickets to see my alma mater’s hockey team in Webster Bank Arena, Bridgeport, CT. On the directions page, in bold:
Parking is a 5 minute walk from the garage to the Arena. Officers will be posted at the intersections to direct you. Please follow the officer’s directions.
Translation — we’ll have sentrys posted; don’t wander through the neighborhood. So f*ed.
JJ got seats on the 5 yrd line row 24 for new years day for 275 a piece, sitting on the Dallas side. if the Giants win this weekend what do you think I can sell those for?
Juice,
Let’s take care of business and beat the Jets first! :)
You lucky dog. If Giants win maybe $400 each. Those tickets have a $130 face.
Juice Box says:
December 23, 2011 at 11:52 am
JJ got seats on the 5 yrd line row 24 for new years day for 275 a piece, sitting on the Dallas side. if the Giants win this weekend what do you think I can sell those for?
Chif, My apt. in city was 200 square feet and I lived like a king. Your 2,800 square foot house is 14 times the size of my old apt. What are you Bill Gates!!
JJ[29], I’m calling BS, you cannot rent a 2 bedroom apartment for that money in BPC, I know people down there paying that for a 1 bedroom. You can’t even rent a good 2 bedroom in Hoboken or Jersey City for that anymore. I won’t even get into the “Automatically Rent Stabilized” bit, that’s not true in Manhattan! A good 2 bedroom is ~5k a month in Manhattan, 3k is a converted 1bd. Not exactly comfortable living.
>Driveway off Cul-de-Sac Street. POOL IS OPEN, COME SEE!<
Danger of a stale listing description. That must have been when it was first listed… in Fall 2010.
Con’t [54];
And that driveway off the cul-de-sac leads to a gragae attached to a house that faces a double-yellow road.
Hoffman at PNC calling the botttom in 2012.
Add it to the list of claims to be ridiculed later.
(52) JJ
200 sq ft and you still got plenty. You are The Ultimate Male.
40 2 bedroom apartments for rent under $3,500. Here is a two bedroom in little italy for $1,642.Web ID# 703665
also Upper East Side under 2k
$1,995 / month (This apartment is just what your looking for. The apartment is over 800 sq ft. One bedroom will fit a king size bed and the other bedroom easily fits a queen size bed. The living room is 15 X 12. The kitchen boasts plenty of counter of space, complete with breakfast bar. The building is just blocks away from the subway. For an immediate viewing … (more)
This apartment is just what your looking for. The apartment is over 800 sq ft. One bedroom will fit a king size bed and the other bedroom easily fits a queen size bed. The living room is 15 X 12. The kitchen boasts plenty of counter of space, complete with breakfast bar. The building is just blocks away from the subway. For an immediate viewing text the number below. (clo
http://www.citi-habitats.com/viewlisting.php?adID=703665&scroll=1
I had choice either move in with buddy in his nice apt for $800 a month or get my own tiny place for $800 a month. My brother had a saying “nobody never got laid cause he had on dirty underware”
Hence two am in a nightclub, hey want to go back to my place? I have my own apt in the city. Once girl says yes and you hope in cab it is a done deal.
However, my apt was its own very special version of Hell. Apt building all had 21 units and all units were 200 square feet. Building had a very weird history. It was just above 23rd street and build in late 1880s. The rich all lived in Gramercy park which is below 23rd street. Building was orginally for horse groomsman. The rich had horses as cars were not yet built. My building was a 23 unit SRO for the horse people, no bathoom, kitchen, electricity. Just 23 rooms. Later they jammed in a bathroom and a tiny tiny kitchen. Oddest thing was at 200 square feet unit had SIX windows. Only means of light and ventolation. Even more weird was it was rent control/rent stabalized. I was paying $7,47 a month in 1997 and my older neighbor was paying something like 200 a month. We had married couples, gay couples, people with roomates, a couple with a kid all in that small building. Saturday night was crazy as you would have 60-90 people in building with a total sqaure foot of 4,600 square feet. I once threw a party and had like 60 people over. I had people on fire escape, door open people in hallway, people on staircase. People would do home repairs paint things etc in hallway or lobby as no room in apt. People used common space in hallway so much you see people in underware with no shirt just cause they felt it was part of their house.
The 10 year old coal converted boiler had a switch on or off. When the landlord flipped it 24 hours a day 7 days a week it ran. Usually he wait as long as possible to flip switch but one day in late october it usually go very cold out and he would flip. I recall during a blizzard watching TV in shorts with six windows open watching steam pour out of unit. Old lady used to say on warm days in winter when heat was blasting after living here in this heat getting used to Hell would be easy. Asked her why doesnt she move, she said you kidding I pay $200 bucks a month rent.
Comrade Nom Deplume says:
December 23, 2011 at 2:15 pm
(52) JJ
200 sq ft and you still got plenty. You are The Ultimate Male.
#16 – 512 Jackson in Ridgewood needed $125,000 in repairs. Being renovated and will be back on the market early next year. My guess at the repaired value is about $575,000.
Way late but re the Taibi, good article but missing the other half of the puzzle. Let’s talk about the ghetto critters that do liter with no shame while also jacking the system. Do they behave like citizens? And of course, the public employee sitting be t to you at the ER, quizatively talking about his five dollar copayment compared to you 100 dollar copayment, also without shame, who refuses to connect the dots or more Likey, dose t give a shit.t It’s he a citizen? commentators like Taiabi continue to pretend that this is only about proportion when in fact it’s about character.
History channel has good program on that is of interest to us Doomers.
Prophets of Doom.
Turns out this has been on before. So no worry about missing it. I like the format because it brings in experts in different areas to advise what they think the triggers and outcomes will be.
So far, the experts all are implicitly supporting the idea of the nompound. They aren’t preppers and don’t go to that level of detail, but the takeaway is that collapse is coming because we won’t take the hard steps to prevent it, and that the ability to insulate from systemic collapse is best, whatever form it takes.
Check out the taps fukoes!!!!
http://alewifequeens.wordpress.com/draught-list/
#58 – 800 sq. ft. for a 2 BR is really no better than a 1 BR converted. That second bedroom will fit that queen bed but not much else. The 800 sq. ft. 2 BR set up works when you have 2 single roommates who share the living room to watch an occasional episode of “Modern Family” together and have separate shelves with labels in the fridge. I think it would be hard to raise a kid and especially two in such a cramped space.
barbara [61]
Please note that the behaviors Taibbi describes as normative and moral, are only such for either middle class members (and upwards), or seriously religious people. The “ghetto critters” are behaving as they do because they don’t have future and/or brakes. You need to respect your neighbors or be fearful of God’s punishment to not leave your dog’s poo on the sidewalk, or for that matter not to rob the passersby. The main trend that eats into these norms is destruction of the middle class; it’s helped by the drop in belief in general, and among the urban poor in particular. Taibbi assigns the responsibility for the middle class destruction mostly correctly; I’d also add the globalization apologists on both left and right to the sh1t list.
Switching the talk to a govt employees enjoying $5 co-pay when you have $100 – well, 20 years ago both of you had $5 or even nothing… The conversation can turn other way around – like you complaining about having zero leverage with your bosses to get a better deal…
Chicago From This Morning: Bernard Goetz Was Indeed A Hero And This ramseure Or Whatever His Name Is, I Would Love To Pee On His Grave With Al Sharpton Watching Me. Any Questions? Tick Tick Tick Tick
Cobbler, there is a hateful kind of elitism at play when you empty three Burger King bags out of your car window while waiting for the light to change…. Your trip down memory lane re deductibles does not address my point. Am I supposed to admire that their goverment worker unions hijacked the right politicians and sent me the bill? There is no parallel.
chi (22)-
Only tragedy there is that Goetz wasn’t a better shot. All four of those cretins should’ve gotten one between the eyes.
barbara [68]
I guess I am not elitist enough to understand the nuance of what you actually meant to say…
On the deductibles – this govt worker didn’t gain anything at your expense. You blew what you’ve had earlier due to the greed of your own (have to get stuff cheap even if your neighbor’s job has to be outsourced to make it cheap) and of your bosses (stable profit is no good, we need growth, rain or shine – so let’s take it from the benefits).
It’s interesting that Brand Name Drugs today are basically only available in Public Employee Health Plans. Most Private Employee Health Plans force you into Generic Drugs or charge you full price for the Brand Name if a generic exists. Using Azithromycin as an example, a Public Employee would simply get the Pfizer Branded Z-Pack at their Pharmacy for a low co pay. The Private employee would be directed at Generic Azithromycin. If they did their research and realized Greenstone Azithromicin is owned by Pfizer and the active ingredients are the same they would get comparable treatment for a higher co-pay. If they however were ignorant and got Generic Azithromycin by Sandoz or Teva they may realize that the active ingredients are different and get hit with various side effects. Assuming the FDA eventually get’s around to resolving the active ingredient/labeling issue filed with them in 2006 on these Generics, issue may be resolved. Private Employee Insurers will usually cover a Branded Drug if you get sick on at least two Generics and can produce a doctors note for such. Public Employees bypass the rat testing by buying the Brand to begin with.
#64 Chi
My favorite place in the city.
http://www.stoutnyc.com/menu.html
If I may but in the 68/70 discussion.
Cobbler – you are correct.
Barbara – what you may consider “a hateful kind of elitism” would be consider “payback”.
Lets be brutally honest if we may. You know very well that connections matter and those “ghetto critters” do not stand chance. While to you and me, a couple of unwarranted traffic tickets by a arrogant, ignorant cop just means a few hundred dollars out pocket – It means possible lose of job and a total economical destabilization for those “ghetto critters” that may take years to recover.
A big example is what NYPD does to minority men in the city. They are constantly stopped and searched. Man of color in NYC know that a squad car can pull over next to them and draw guns and throw them into the ground, and after ID check, not even apologize.
Let me relate two small incidents that I was witness to. I’m hispanic, but look white.
-I was involved in a volunteer first aid squad. In the mid 80’s in a middle of a fire scene where 5 row houses with mostly minorities resident got burned out -one of the captains who mistook me for some one else tells me with a very happy face – “Hey, great fire, look at those f”ing ricans lose everything”
-While in that city – the white relatives of several people got hired into the police and fire force in ways that were not correct bypassing a lot of qualified white and non-whites. The dirty little secret of public employment in NJ, specially in police and fire is that – yes, they have great bennies and pay, but the average non-connected job, does not stand a chance.
So for them is payback for the man.
Been there,
In the town I’ve lived in for 20 years, the city workers are largely minority and their jobs are used to buy loyaty to keep in a corrupt govt year after year. you know we could do this all day until we just admit that human vanity trades at all levels and it’s all part of the problem.
Cobbler,
That’s rhetoric and nothing more. There is no parallel there, just neener neener neener.
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Barbara,
There is a lot of parallels… You just feel that if someone is paid from your taxes he/she should accompany you through your race to the bottom – despite you getting on this trail on your own will, or at least not opposing getting nudged there. In 1994 I paid nothing for my medical, and had zero co-pay; now it is $300/month, and $40 per visit – but I don’t think my kids teacher and the guys who mow grass in the town park are somehow responsible for this… and I think the CEO of my company is largely responsible…
You seem to be in a sour mood though – do something holiday-ish… make a fruitcake?
Cobbler,
The public unions didn’t beat the CEOs, they beat their fellow citizens. Not hard to do considering the consequences of not paying your tax bill. Merry Xmas.
Barbara, if all the companies go back to the medical policies without copay, it will reduce S&P 500 profits by about 10% (if at all; as the disposable income goes up the sales will increase) – and you will have the same coverage as your garbageman. But, I guess, you and I will never agree on this.
>>>There Went Meat says:
December 23, 2011 at 7:16 am
NJ is a f’ing sinkhole. Might not make it here another four years. Youngest can go to HS anywhere; he is a good kid and good student.<<<
You're not going anywhere. You helped create this damn mess with negative talk and now you're going to keep your ass and your mangy dog's ass right here and deal with it just like the rest of us. You helped make this damn bed, so just get comfy and lie in it.
The
Fab: ok..tremendous selection but the clientele is late twentysomething posers…which is fine except I’m over the hill and dont want to shout over slackers…..
Fabius Maximus says:
December 24, 2011 at 7:36 am
#64 Chi
My favorite place in the city.
http://www.stoutnyc.com/menu.html
I have all the best beer. I have all the best wine. I have lots of guns and lots of ammo.
Life is good. Merry Christmas!
Merry christmas to all and to All a good night
Merry Christmas, all.
77.cobbler says:
December 24, 2011 at 2:12 pm
Barbara,
There is a lot of parallels… You just feel that if someone is paid from your taxes he/she should accompany you through your race to the bottom – despite you getting on this trail on your own will, or at least not opposing getting nudged there. In 1994 I paid nothing for my medical, and had zero co-pay; now it is $300/month, and $40 per visit – but I don’t think my kids teacher and the guys who mow grass in the town park are somehow responsible for this… and I think the CEO of my company is largely responsible…
You seem to be in a sour mood though – do something holiday-ish… make a fruitcake?
George Bush created the High Deductible Medical Plans for partnering Government IRS tables with the CEO’s in the Private Sector. Naturally Public Employees were exempt from these plans both by Bush & Obama. The issue in private sector isn’t premium payments and co-pays or even high deductibles, it’s sub standard medical coverage after you satisfy all of the aforementioned, like only covering generic drugs. Considering this crap came from the Public Sector and is not applicable to the Public Sector, there is a definite conflict of interest. I think it should be against the law for Congress to pass any law that doesn’t apply to them first. I have no problem with US Deathcare, if applied equally across the board. I want every Political Person, Police Person, Fire Person, Teacher Person, etc. to be required to take the same Chinese adulterated generic drugs foisted on the Private Sector, or pay for their own non adulterated drugs out of pocket.
confused [84]
Most plans just charge more (or much more) for the brand name than for a generic… they may refuse to pay for the off-label use though usually don’t. There was some talk of “bare-bones” individual plans only paying for the generics, but I am not sure any actually had been set up. For the same medicine, very few generic drugs had ever been suspected of being less (or differently) effective than the brands; as far as I remember, there was an issue with the rate of metabolism for couple of generic psychiatric medications. Are you on one of them?
86.cobbler says:
December 25, 2011 at 1:17 am
Cobbler, the starting issue with the FDA is they “Don’t” require Generic Drugs to be “identical” to Brand Drugs. They also have “No” ability to actually inspect Factory’s like China where a lot of ingredients are manufactured. Regarding Psychiatric Drugs, I view them as modern snake oil. Actually the majority of newer Drugs today are modern snake oil. Look at the “ask a patient” data base to see some of the effects of Big Pharma Greed and FDA Complicity.
Cobbler – Barbara forgets the 1% received more government welfare than every ghetto rat combined since the great depression to the tune of about 13 trillion.
Here is the spreadsheet on the FED secret payouts compiled by Bloomberg and released the other day. Take a look at the 1b company index.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-12-23/fed-s-once-secret-data-compiled-by-bloomberg-released-to-public.html
All I want for Christmas is a Cheshire Cat Perp walk.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-12-23/obama-returns-70-000-in-corzine-donations.html
merry X-mas:
day of cooking in new house: Jambayla and asian style duck that has been brining for 9 hours. Hope it turns out well.
Merry Christmas to all you Christians, and for the rest, have a nice day off tomorrow.
Surprisingly, we Pats Fans have Brandon Jacobs to thank for the next good Jets taunt:
“Time to shut up, fat boy”
Classic.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GsYvgIVEROU
Merry xmas from Bo
Nice informative blog, thanks for sharing.
I’ve enjoyed the last 24 minutes of hoops more than any 24 minutes in the last decade combined. Couple that with the Jets beating themselves before the Giants committed an unrecoverable miscue and Romo playing the bongos on an opponent’s helmet and this Xmas is shaping up nicely.
Whatever it is you happen to celebrate, have a great day.
As what realtors in nj kept on telling to their clients, it is really a good time to invest to properties because of the visible decline. However, this could only be ideal to those who have sufficient funds to sustain their needs.
95: thank you captain obvious!
Merry Christmas all!
By the way GIANTS! Oh the joys of putting it to the Jets.
Happy whatever yo!
And to all a good night.