From Bloomberg:
US home prices drop for 6th straight month
Home prices dropped in February in most major U.S. cities for a sixth straight month, a sign that modest sales gains haven’t been enough to boost prices.
The Standard & Poor’s/Case-Shiller home-price index shows that prices dropped in February from January in 16 of the 20 cities it tracks.
The steepest declines were in Atlanta, Chicago and Cleveland. Prices rose in Phoenix, San Diego and Miami. They were unchanged in Dallas.
The declines partly reflect typical offseason sales. The month-to-month prices aren’t adjusted for seasonal factors.
Still, prices fell in 15 of the 20 cities in February compared with the same month in 2011. That indicates that the housing market remains far from healthy despite the best winter for sales in five years.
The steady price declines have brought the nationwide index to its late 2002 level. Home prices have fallen 35 percent since the housing bust.
…
Stan Humphries, chief economist for housing website Zillow.com, attributed the declines in part to heavy sales of foreclosed homes, which are usually sold at super-low prices. Foreclosures made up about one-fifth of February’s sales.“We think home sales will continue to trend upward, which ultimately will result in a slower rate of home value depreciation,” Humphries said. “But any housing recovery will be dependent on job growth.”
From the WSJ:
Shiller: America Lacks ‘Success Mood’.
Robert Shiller, Yale economics professor and co-founder of the Case-Shiller Index, dropped in on the Markets Hub this morning to break down the latest Case-Shiller report.
He was frank, and said despite some relatively good signs, the whole notion of home ownership is undergoing a sea change that may last “for many years.”
The basic problem, he said, is one of psychology. “We don’t have that basic story that would lead to a real bounce,” he said. What he doesn’t see in the nation today is a “success mood.”
Adjusted for inflation, and the bubble years long gone, home prices are about where they’ve been for the past century, Shiller said. That said, he doesn’t foresee prices rising “any time soon.”
What’s happening, he said, is people are becoming less enamoured by the proverbial American Dream of a house in the suburbs. Yes, affordability is up and interest rates are down, but that isn’t enticing to people who are more concerned about high gas prices and the stability of their jobs.
“The anxiety outweighs the interest rate,” he said.
Good Morning New Jersey
Case Shiller NY Metro Area YOY Change
Aggregate down 3.0%
Under $269,327 down 5.7%
$269,327 to $425,615 down 4.1%
Over $425,615 down 1.8%
Condos down 0.9%
The most interesting aspect is how clearly price declines have been hitting the low tier and have almost been leaving the high tier untouched. Condos also a bright spot, the best performer in the last year. The headline/aggregate number really fails to capture the dynamic of what is happening in the market.
Take a look at the 2 year change by tier:
Aggregate down 6.9%
Under $269,327 down 12.9%
$269,327 to $425,615 down 9.9%
Over $425,615 down 4.3%
Condos down 2.9%
From Bloomberg:
Home Values in Most Large U.S. Cities Bottoming, Zillow Says
Home values in more than half of major U.S. markets will probably reach a bottom by December as the five-year slide in prices comes to an end, according to a forecast by Zillow Inc. (Z)
Nineteen of 30 large metropolitan areas have already reached a floor or will by late 2012, the Seattle-based property data provider said in a report today. Among the regions that are at the bottom, Phoenix and Miami are poised to have the largest price increases through March 2013, gaining 6.5 percent and 5.6 percent, respectively. Atlanta will have the steepest decline, falling 4.1 percent, the company projected.
The U.S. housing market, bolstered by job growth, has shown some improvement. Home values nationwide climbed 0.5 percent in March from February, the biggest monthly increase since May 2006, according to the seasonally adjusted Zillow Home Value Index. Prices are 25 percent below the May 2007 peak and will be little changed through the end of the year, the company said.
“I remain cautiously optimistic about the full year of 2012, and the first-quarter numbers are very encouraging,” Stan Humphries, Zillow’s chief economist, said in a telephone interview. “The bottom in home values is in sight.”
Any recovery might be threatened if the pickup in employment falters, he said.
Markets that have reached the low point include Los Angeles, Dallas, Philadelphia, Washington, Boston and Denver, according to the report. The New York metro area’s trough will come in the second quarter, followed by Baltimore and Las Vegas in the third quarter, Zillow projected.
And in contrast to Case Shiller, the FHFA data is showing a positive print for February home prices:
FHFA House Price Index Up 0.3 Percent in February (PDF)
U.S. house prices rose 0.3 percent on a seasonally adjusted basis from January to February, according to the Federal Housing Finance Agency’s monthly House Price Index. While prices in January were unchanged according to initial estimates reported in the last HPI release, the January result has been revised downward to reflect a 0.5 percent decrease. For the 12 months ending in February, U.S. prices rose 0.4 percent, the first 12-month increase since the July 2006 – July 2007 interval. The U.S. index remains 19.4 percent below its April 2007 peak and is roughly the same as the January 2004 index level.
YIPPEE! “The crash is over,” Mark Zandi, chief economist for Moody’s Analytics Inc. in West Chester, Pennsylvania, said in a telephone interview yesterday. “Home sales — both new and existing — and housing starts are now off the bottom.”
From Calculated Risk:
Real House Prices and Price-to-Rent Ratio at late ’90s Levels
In real terms, the National index is back to Q4 1998 levels, the Composite 20 index is back to January 2000, and the CoreLogic index back to May 1999.
In real terms, all appreciation in the ’00s is gone.
…
On a price-to-rent basis, the Case-Shiller National index is back to October 1998 levels, the Composite 20 index is back to February 2000 levels, and the CoreLogic index is back to June 1999.
In real terms – and as a price-to-rent ratio – prices are mostly back to late 1990s or early 2000 levels.
http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2012/04/newest_kids_count_report_finds.html
Presented without comment
mike (7)-
The airplane’s engine has just gulped the last of its fuel supply and the engines are roaring. Soon, however, the inevitable plummet-crash-burn will ensue.
Another day in hell.
Meat 10 All the passengers will be drinking flat champagne since the cork has been in out of the bottle God knows how many times
Who cares man? Apple crushed it and that’s 50% of the S&P 500’s value right now. As long as people keep cashing out their 401-k’s, taking out additional student loans, and trade their food stamps for more I-sh*t this economy will keep on growing like gangbusters! Plus the Facebook IPO is coming next month!!! This is Facebook people! F-A-C-E-B-O-O-K!!!
There seems to be a unanimous perception that price to rent ratios will be normalized via rising home prices, but I think there is greater than even chance it comes via lower rents. Flat incomes are not supportive of rising rents or prices, regardless of demand, the money has to come from somewhere.
My son was distraught at the barca loss. I hope bayern trounced Chelsea.
The humpty dumpty housing market is broke. All the Prez’s horses and men ain’t putting it back together again without JOBS and there’s not going to be a return to historically normal employment for decades absent some sort of technological revolution. The powers that be are gimmicked out. The housing/MBS/CMBS circus is proof of that.
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/24/nyregion/the-appraisal-vacancies-even-on-the-upper-east-side.html
Housing Forecast 2009…”Home prices seen bottoming 2009″
Housing Forecast 2010…”Home prices seen bottoming 2010″
Housing Forecast 2011…”Home prices seen bottoming 2011″
Housing Forecast 2012…”Home prices seen bottoming 2012″
I recommend to all Americans, my own personal retirement plan. It has two advantages, one, is that it puts you in a good mood, the other is that it adds value to your home.
Everynight, I go home and drink a few Miller High life or Rolling Rock tall boys. That puts me in a great mood. Then I toss them into the crawlspace through a hole in the wall. In 100 years, my decendants can tear open the wall and sell the collectible cans on ebay. Winning!
In a few months, Bloomberg can cross out “UK” and insert “USA”
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-04-25/u-k-returns-to-recession-in-first-quarter-on-building-slump.html
Dont know whether you are joking or not but in reality many a young person who has seen only RE as a way to lose money puts their money into Apple. Apple is set to rise 10% in the first minute of trading today. Real Estate. Has huge carrying costs and headaches to buy, maintain and sell. Today youth can just on train drinking a coffee click a botton on their IPHONE by some stock, click it again a few day later and make more money than you can in housing in years. I recall people in their 20s in the time period of 1993-1999 who would constantly say housing is for idiots. Sure way to lose money. They were putting money each paycheck into the Magelian Funds or QQQs or S&P 500 fund and magically got 20-40% returns every year for 7 years. Meanwhile people with realestate in that time period like 1987 Coop buyers had a noose around their neck, were underwater and had no fun. My friends who opted into cheap rent controled units or with roommates and 100% in equities had tons of cash. With no work involved. Pre internet I used to put $200 a month into my Chase Vista Fund and we only got statements quarterly. I used to smile every quarter. Only work involved was a one time set up auto deposit from my paycheck.
My wife every time I look at an investment property goes, so much work, expense, tying up money, tennants calling in middle of night, cant you just click some buttons on your computer and buy some stocks or bonds, seems a lot easier. With people thinking like that RE is doomed. We need people to think like 2000-2004 when RE was pure gold.
Dissident HEHEHE says:
April 25, 2012 at 7:46 am
Who cares man? Apple crushed it and that’s 50% of the S&P 500′s value right now. As long as people keep cashing out their 401-k’s, taking out additional student loans, and trade their food stamps for more I-sh*t this economy will keep on growing like gangbusters! Plus the Facebook IPO is coming next month!!! This is Facebook people! F-A-C-E-B-O-O-K!!!
Durable goods orders down 4.2%. Luckily for us iPhone sales are up big in China. I was very happy to hear that Mark Zandi called the 1345th bottom in the housing market.
http://www.marketwatch.com/story/us-orders-for-durable-goods-sink-42-in-march-2012-04-25
some really good posts today. Can’t decide if brian or all hype takes host of the day so far.
Libtard, from yesterday re modern portfolio theory
Yes, modern portfolio theory is wrong, and it’s inventors got Nobel Prize to prove it, right along with Al Gore, Krugman. and Obama for their massive contributions to popular world delusions.
The assumptions underlying modern portfolio theory don’t hold,and the evidence doesn’t match its predictions. Yet it’s taught to every finance student.
I read one of Haugen’s books during my Level 2 CFA readings. That was one of the most significant things that I learned in the program. Currently, I’d recommend Eric Falkenstein’s book “Finding Alpha” but I know you’re cheap. So his free online AV presentations on finance as well as his paper on SSRN are worth investigating instead.
I actually think you’d like these, btw. Anybody who thinks seriously about investing should.
grrr……….thems fighting words…..
A.West says:
April 25, 2012 at 8:49 am
Libtard, from yesterday re modern portfolio theory
Yes, modern portfolio theory is wrong, and it’s inventors got Nobel Prize to prove it,
Apple my ass. Have a plain LG that I can talk, text, take pictures & videos and paid $25.00 on ebay. Oh but it doesn’t change the channel on the TV like the smart phone. That’s what the TV remote is for for dumb asses.
Westy: how do you value cash flows then?
Further to yesterdays discussion, the CNBC crew was discussing the prospects for particularly intense prosecution of WMT for political reasons. The consensus opinion was “duh”.
Still, prices fell in 15 of the 20 cities in February compared with the same month in 2011. That indicates that the housing market remains far from healthy despite the best winter for sales in five years.
No job growth, no income growth, no business expansion, decoupled property taxes… Let me know when you hear the resounding thud of the body hitting the ground.
Below are the 19 metropolitan areas where Zillow expects prices will hit a bottom in 2012:
New York
Los Angeles
Dallas-Ft. Worth, Texas
Philadelphia
Washington, DC
Miami-Fort Lauderdale, Fla.
Boston
26 – Not sure I understand your comparison, you bought an old phone on eBay for cheap, and it works. Basic mobile technology as we know it today is now some 25 or 30 years old, but that isn’t Apple’s competition. Recognize that LG and others make comparable phones these days as well, so even your brand comparison doesn’t hold much water either. Mobile technology, globally, is an incredible force, economically, politically, etc. Is there any better example recently than the incredible power of mobile and social networking behind the Arab Spring demonstrations? These “phones” represent probably the single most important communications and commerce platforms of the next 20 years. These are no longer “telephones” by any stretch, these are mobile/wireless computers that happen to make calls too. The incredible growth of mobile has nothing to do with the ability to make calls. These devices are pushing the cutting edge of battery development, processor/cpu development, mobile communications infrastructure, display technology, etc. Mobile innovation is clearly outpacing just about every other area these days. Traditional computing? Other than “cloud”, what’s really happened in the last 5 years? Nada. Green energy? Electric cars? Slugs.
Look, I think Apple is overpriced (and over-hyped) too, but I’m not about to poo poo mobile tech. Apple isn’t the only game in town anymore, and it really looks like the android steamroller is catching up quickly.
BTW bottoming does not mean anything. Lets say 2012 is bottom and you buy a house for 500K, you pay 4% on mortgage and inflation is 3% and home prices stay flat for next ten years. You are out a lot of money. Lets say home prices rise 1-2% a year for ten years. You are still out money. Homes have to rise at least at the rate of inflation for someone without a mortgage just to break even.
Dont talk to me about you save on renting. The young newlywed couple who bought house next to me for 480K with closing and some repairs cost them like $520 and taxes on that house as it is for some reason overtaxed is 12K. Lets say they put down financed 400K at 4% which is $1,600 a month plus RE taxes of 1k a month for a total of $2,600. Meanwhile a small ranch three blocks away is renting for $1,500. Couple are childless, young and work full time. Renting the small ranch for $1,500 was logical choice. Housing will be flat for a few more years. There is no rush.
JJ – Why not just sell and rent then?
re: # 20 – Spain had a negative print too.
Bottom? These things always over correct. Where is the PANIC selling?
Only because my house is not worth much, I own it mortgage free and have low property taxes. Plus huge transactions costs associated with selling and moving.
Plus owning a house outright is a huge tax break. Some countries actually tax as income for people who own homes outright the rent they save. My home would rent for 2,200 a month. My home has $700 a month in property taxes. I am getting $1,500 tax free benefit each month by not paying rent. The young couple is spending $2,600 a month to get a place they could rent for much less. MY RE taxes are even scheduled to fall a few hundred a year. Next year they are down to $7,700 a year.
However, I am saying for a young couple newly married both working with no kids it is foolish to rush into a home purchase.
grim says:
April 25, 2012 at 9:23 am
JJ – Why not just sell and rent then?
Richard Simmons has also been bottoming out for years.
#21 JJ..that’s 1987 CONDO Buyer to you, not Coop! (Jersey blog not NYC!)
The good news, when we bought a house I just bought a basic Ranch, added on a few times paying cash, now it is paid for and my “rent” is less than $700 a month (RE Tax) for a 4 bedroom on a dead end with a nice backyard, deck and hot tub and full basement. given the numbers it may make sense to stay, daughter starting HS son starting college at a State zchool in the South (want him out of NY Metro area).
Apple better outperform the pensions will go bust otherwise and you will have to pay more taxes to make up for it.
Goldman Sachs’ Bill Shope: Raising price target to $850.
ISI’s Brian Marshall:Raising price target to $750.
J.P. Morgan’s Mark Moskowitz: Price target: $715.
Topeka’s Brian White: Raises price target to $1,111.
Citi’s Richard Gardner: Raising price target to $720.
etc etc
re #36 — JJ you should sell and move around the block to Queens, it will give you another 8k to play with, I believe the Median is around $2k
property taxes that is in Queens.
JJ should just suck it up, move to NJ and buy a house here. We will welcome him as he is a 1%er. Also, as an added benefit, in NJ we provide police escorts for 1%ers like him so that he can race his exotic luxury sports car down the parkway whenever he wants. He can feel free to use the rest of the poor suckers on the parkway as his personal traffic cones.
JJ seriously though. I think you’re overanalyzing it. Maybe you could stop comparing housing to other investments and look at it more like an expensive durable good.
When my uncle bought his summer house in Seaside in the late 70’s it had one added benefit that is difficult to quantify. He has 3 daughters who are all grown up having spent many summers at that house. They all now have children of their own. When your children get older, it gets more difficult to get the family together on a regular basis. That summer home serves as a continual draw for all of his kids and grandkids. I really believe they are a closer family than mine because of it.
31 The model I “stole” on ebay for $25.00 is not outdated in fact it’s still available in stores. My whole point is my phone is doing what it’s suppose to do and the majority of people I know that paid extra for the “I” crap use it to post pictures on Facebook and check emails every two minutes. If it’s that important call from your dumb phone. By the way my $25.00 piece of crap has voice dialing which I can’t be bothered with either.
Mike how are you supposed to drive and social network with an old dinosaur phone?
JJ,
Apple has tremendous customer loyalty, tons o’cash, and decent product line. Problem is where can you go from there? I think you are seeing the stocks peak. It may bounce around here for a year or so but long term they have a ton of competitors, Jobs is gone, and the products that they sell are becoming more and more commoditized which is going to lead to slimmer margins unless they find some planet with cheaper labor than they are getting currently. At some point in a couple years you’ll be reading about the hedge fund genius who made a killing shorting Apple.
Juice 44 Ah forgot to tell you my $25.00 piece of crap has bluetooth which I can’t be bothered with either. Just press the speaker button and voila. Dam I miss my beeper.
re: # 45 – HEHEHE – no worries massive sales in China will make AAPL a $1k stock..
Mike, how are you supposed to tweet about the stuff you ate for lunch if you don’t have a data plan? How are you supposed to take pictures of every other living moment and post them to Facebook if you don’t have a smartphone?
Yeah massive sales in China. Why would a Chinese person pay $100 for an I-phone when they can pay $10 for an I-phong that is a complete blackmarket copy?
From today’s Star Ledger: Rutgers student admits fondling sleeping roommate while FILMING IT ON HIS CELL PHONE http://www.nj.com/newsflash/index.ssf/story/rutgers-student-admits-fondling-sleeping-roommate/c4d4fa45f05045b49db54f6795eeaa83 As Number 31 stated ” These “phones” represent probably the single most important communications and commerce platforms of the next 20 years. These are no longer “telephones” by any stretch, these are mobile/wireless computers that happen to make calls too. “
… because nobody ever did the exact same thing with their circa 1984, shoulder mounted VHS camcorder.
I’m sure JJ has a story about forgetting to cover the blinking red light with a piece of black electrical tape.
Sorry to make light, but the rape would have taken place cell phone or not.
Juice 48 Thankfully I still have my dial up connection
#37/38 Makes sense if the house is paid for, and taxes are reasonable. From what I am seeing however, there are a whole lot of people in their 40’s and 50″s who wont have the mtg paid off by the time they retire. Just saying.
Chifi,
With an appropriate discount rate, but not calculated with a CAPM model.
You might enjoy reading Falkenstein’s work.
Who knows maybe the filming was done for monetary purposes and he was planning to sell the video. There’s a great idea for Brian, put one of those old VHS recorders in that crawl space if there’s room.
I absolutely cannot do without my $50/month data plan on my wireless device. I must be able to check njrereport.com several times a day. Totally worth it.
Ref. to Secret Service scandal David Letterman had best punch line ” I’m hot about this because these are jobs that should have went to American Hookers”
57 –
That Colombian lady was hot but she’s no JWoww.
Mike says:
April 25, 2012 at 9:52 am
31 The model I “stole” on ebay for $25.00 is not outdated in fact it’s still available in stores. My whole point is my phone is doing what it’s suppose to do and the majority of people I know that paid extra for the “I” crap use it to post pictures on Facebook and check emails every two minutes. If it’s that important call from your dumb phone. By the way my $25.00 piece of crap has voice dialing which I can’t be bothered with either.
——————–
Yeah, people with the smartphones do a lot of dumb things with it. Use it to check email while driving. Spend all day posting on facebook and checking up on their friends. But just because a technology is being used inefficiently doesn’t invalidate it. Kids used to spend an hour/hours chatting with friends on the landline telephone, doing “nothing.” Doesn’t make the telephone crap. Phone GPS have made me a lot more efficient, and Yelp can be useful in a pinch. The ability to do a quick google as well.
Speaking of VHS.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/its-been-a-bumpy-20-year-ride-since-the-riots-but-rodney-king-says-hes-happy-with-life-now/2012/04/25/gIQAFgKCgT_story.html
Duck 59 Definetly agree, and the GPS still fascinates me.
Green Shoots: Just got a blast E-mail from vault.com… “How to Make the Most of a Dead-End Job” This is from an outfit that gets paid to place people. Hope and Change!
Moose [62],
The job front in the IT/global financial industry is f*cking dead. Absolutely dead. I have experience in every phase of the development lifecycle spanning the business and technical side and my email and phone are stone cold dead. In 15 years of doing this, I have not seen it so bad and believe me, my resume looks like a f*cking Rembrandt in format and wording.
Could never afford a Video Camera. Those things were extremely expensive in the 1980s and early 1990s. But at office parties, hamptons, happy hours, train fights, bar fights, etc. Lots of stuff I did I would never want on film. Just stupid stuff. But certainly not stuff you want on film. The advent of Apple and everyone having a video camera 24/7 is an invasion of privacy. NY troopers losing jobs over teenagers filming an escort. I see LIRR is planning on limiting alcahol after 12 midnight on Friday and Saturday due to incidents that were filmed and posted on-line. Meanwhile all I see it is a bunch of guys pushing and shoving with ranger shirts on after a game, with beer muscles. Their rights were violated when someone filmed them and posted it online and their jobs are now most likely in jepordy and wives giving them a pain. Heck I won a Dirty Joke telling contest once at Neptune Beach, maybe a thousand people watching. Would I have entered contest or got on stage if I knew everyone had video cameras and it was going to be posted for my boss, family and neighbors to see. No. Would the investment banker girls got on the bar at two am in mini skirts and dirtied danced do it today, no. Todays youth dont know what they gave up to have a smart phone, their youth and freedom. Youtube, Facebook and Smartphones are horrible. Who wants the stupid things you did from 17-30 on line for life? For instance when I was 17 for fun we were lunching bottle rockets from my moving car and even put a shopping cart on my trunk and let it loose at 70 mph. Funny stuff, no one hurt. But what right does someone have to film my stupidity, put it on line and ruin my chance of every having a good job, bring on a board, running for president. Easy to deny like Bill Clinton did, but today someone would film him smoking dope or getting a bj and he would be a nobody.
grim says:
April 25, 2012 at 10:23 am
… because nobody ever did the exact same thing with their circa 1984, shoulder mounted VHS camcorder.
I’m sure JJ has a story about forgetting to cover the blinking red light with a piece of black electrical tape.
Sorry to make light, but the rape would have taken place cell phone or not.
63 –
Your phone is dead because you have a crappy crackberry. You should probably switch to an iPhong with a data plan. Then keep checking your facebook page. You will forget you hate your job.
IT is for people under 40. Looking for an IT job when you are 50 is the equivalent of a 50 year old women looking for a swimsuit model job. A 12 year old girl knows more about IT than a 52 year old man.
gary says:
April 25, 2012 at 11:14 am
Moose [62],
The job front in the IT/global financial industry is f*cking dead. Absolutely dead. I have experience in every phase of the development lifecycle spanning the business and technical side and my email and phone are stone cold dead. In 15 years of doing this, I have not seen it so bad and believe me, my resume looks like a f*cking Rembrandt in format and wording.
[63] gary,
Why do you think I studied to become a vulture? Using the law to help deadbeats and downtrodden alike to escape their obligations and keep what they have is something I saw as a growth industry.
Hey, even vulture’s gotta eat.
Your resume a f*cking Rembrandt to the 24 year old hiring manager. All they see is some old dead white guy, just like Rembrandt.
gary says:
April 25, 2012 at 11:14 am
Moose [62],
The job front in the IT/global financial industry is f*cking dead. Absolutely dead. I have experience in every phase of the development lifecycle spanning the business and technical side and my email and phone are stone cold dead. In 15 years of doing this, I have not seen it so bad and believe me, my resume looks like a f*cking Rembrandt in format and wording.
[64] JJ
Amen to that. I’ve done a lot of crap that would certainly have folks on the web castigating me, but since none of it was ever filmed, I can deny away.
Except for that picture of me with a bottle of vodka that someone posted to FB from 1981. I was 19 and remember getting viciously hammered that night. So does the guy who posted it.
BTW bottoming does not mean anything. Lets say 2012 is bottom and you buy a house for 500K, you pay 4% on mortgage and inflation is 3% and home prices stay flat for next ten years. You are out a lot of money.
Assuming you stay in the home for the long hall and your salary rises with inflation doesn’t that take the most of the bite out of the interest expense.
JJ,
Go f*ck yourself.
Yes but kinda like saying if I put 60% of my money in Apple it adjusts for my 40% bad investments. Trouble is people who buy now your theory might work. People who bought a trade up home at the age of 42 in Spring of 2006 with a 30 year mortgage it will never work. Peak earning years are 40-50 and with home prices falling it just wont every work out. They just have to work till 72 when their 30 year mortgage is paid off.
Gary I am like the black guy in the Sears commercial.
WickedOrange says:
April 25, 2012 at 11:31 am
BTW bottoming does not mean anything. Lets say 2012 is bottom and you buy a house for 500K, you pay 4% on mortgage and inflation is 3% and home prices stay flat for next ten years. You are out a lot of money.
Assuming you stay in the home for the long hall and your salary rises with inflation doesn’t that take the most of the bite out of the interest expense.
My favorite shot I am glad does not exist is me at 15 years of age vomiting out the door of an AMC Pacer after drinking a bottle of Jack Danels with a bottle of Coke. Maybe they could dub that song “International” to my playa moves.
Comrade Nom Deplume says:
April 25, 2012 at 11:25 am
[64] JJ
Amen to that. I’ve done a lot of crap that would certainly have folks on the web castigating me, but since none of it was ever filmed, I can deny away.
Except for that picture of me with a bottle of vodka that someone posted to FB from 1981. I was 19 and remember getting viciously hammered that night. So does the guy who posted it.
We used to film on those old VHS-C camcorders all of our Ski Trips, Spring Breaks, trips to Vegas,Bahamas for the heck of it and even the fake bachelor parties at the VFW that we used to run just to have some fun. I really don’t want any of that stuff being posted online. It still maybe out there in somebody’s garage or attic, some pack rat that is keeping it forever. How life was 20-25 years ago was much different than today the kids really cannot get away with anything, every little thing is posted online now, it is in it’s own way Orwellian.
U.S. sold 5-yr notes today at 0.887%
Did the Treasury and Fed buy back like 90% of it or something? Heck an ING money market pays that much.
64 & 69 After doing shots and beers in the hotel room while in Fort Liquiordale during spring break in the early 80’s went out on the strip and worked my way through a crowd of people watching a street show, grabbed the microphone from the guy and I started singing You Lost That Loving Feeling to everyone. The VHS recorders were all on me. Just waiting for something to pop up on You Tube. The next day people came up to me on the street shaking my hand. Scary
Nom,
You know anybody at Dewey?
Also a lot less security cameras too. I am filmed at least 50 times a day just coming to work. Cell phone has tracking features and between metro cards, ezpass, credit card swipes and black boxes in cars and on-star many people are tracked all day.
The days of taking $100 bucks out of bank on Friday hopping in back of car for a weekend trip with no credit card, atm card or phone are long gone. Heck if my Mom died or my house burned down people would just have to wait till I got home.
Much more fun and exciting to be on spring break in Mexico or even crashing on someones floor you never met. Funny hook-ups were pretty crazy back in day. Recall my brother hoping in the car with a few stewardess, no credit card, no phone, no clue who they were, I did not even catch their names. Ended up taking a bus home at lunch the next day. I used to loose 1-2 people a night all the time, who knows where they ended up. Funniest ever was a guy at Caseys in Westhampton left with some girl and did her in the bushes beside parking lot and passed out and girl left him. We get a call back at summer house at 4:30am. Some wise guy saw him passed out and pissed on him, he woke up in gravel, pants half down covered in Pee. That guy is a Hedge Fund Partner today. Today they would have filmed that stuff when he was 24 and he be a janitor.
Juice Box says:
April 25, 2012 at 11:43 am
We used to film on those old VHS-C camcorders all of our Ski Trips, Spring Breaks, trips to Vegas,Bahamas for the heck of it and even the fake bachelor parties at the VFW that we used to run just to have some fun. I really don’t want any of that stuff being posted online. It still maybe out there in somebody’s garage or attic, some pack rat that is keeping it forever. How life was 20-25 years ago was much different than today the kids really cannot get away with anything, every little thing is posted online now, it is in it’s own way Orwellian.
there used to be a video of my friends and I shooting at each other with live ammo. Well not directly at one another but close enough. We were dumb enough to a) shoot at one another b) caught on film. It is a miracle I made it to 30
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Youvelostthatlovinfeelin.jpg
Nom,
67,
lmao.
$7700 is way too much to pay in property taxes. I am the cheapest of the cheap. I’m going to move if the taxes on my POS go over 5k. I’ll appeal again though just in case.
Depends on school district and services. I have three kids in public schools and three day a week garbage pick up. That alone is worth more than $7.700.
Plus the average person makes at least 200K on this site. It is only 3% of income and tax deductable.
AG says:
April 25, 2012 at 12:24 pm
$7700 is way too much to pay in property taxes. I am the cheapest of the cheap. I’m going to move if the taxes on my POS go over 5k. I’ll appeal again though just in case.
79 – Pain
I don’t even understand how, but one of my friends obtained a semi automatic .22 cal rifle when we were 17. He also mail ordered a bannana clip. A group of us would drive around in the middle of the night shooting out street lights from the sunroof in his accord. That’s probably what they do for fun in like Iowa but I hear they frown upon it in NJ.
Gary –
I totally agree because we’re suffering in a similar manner. Few contract jobs and hundreds of unemployed people fighting for each one. And on top of it the horrible age discrimination. People in their 50s are still middle-aged and too young to retire or collect Social Security, but employers consider them too old for even the most miserable of contract jobs (of course with no benefits and from which they can be thrown out of at a moment’s notice).
So seriously, what are people in their 50s (and 60s) supposed to do? College and graduate degrees are not helping in this situation.
I can visualize massive tent cities forming across the United States…..
A big downward spiral…..
85. Innovate
I dont know if it is age discrimination or high salary discrimination. At 50 the only jobs that are age appropriate are head of Department or higher in the business world. Academic, Federal and State and non-profit is a different story. Each Department only had one Department Head and even fewer officer, C-level jobs.
Now the catch with the Head of Jobs and beyond is generally unemployed people dont get those jobs. Also anyone over 50 who has a good job, office aint quiting anytime soon. The jobs dont open up as often as lower level jobs. And quite frankly many 50 year old managers have three kids at home, a long commute, homes, cars, vacations, kids getting sick, wife getting sick etc. Maybe a 23 year old who is single, live nearby, can work long hours and is hungry to get started in the work world will be the favorite as staff. They work cheap, can work late and can travel. Mix in some old timers to mentor them and you have a team. But like baseball where a few old verterns are nice in club house too many are bad. Plus as and old fart myself I need to know what kids are up to, energy, excitement. You are only full of energy once!! My mind is still a lot sharper than most. But not like when I was 23 on Wall Street.
401K withdrawls start penalty fee at 55 at least My interesting thing is in the last ten years I see older and older first time Dads. Plenty of 50 year old Dads at kindergarten orientation I went to recently. Yep it is great to have kids late. But when I see tons of 50 year old Dads with five year old kids with stay at home wives, mortgages and leased cars I wonder how it will all work out. You see lots of 50 year olds in the work force but rarely rarely anyone over 60.
Sima says:
April 25, 2012 at 12:53 pm
Gary –
I totally agree because we’re suffering in a similar manner. Few contract jobs and hundreds of unemployed people fighting for each one. And on top of it the horrible age discrimination. People in their 50s are still middle-aged and too young to retire or collect Social Security, but employers consider them too old for even the most miserable of contract jobs (of course with no benefits and from which they can be thrown out of at a moment’s notice).
So seriously, what are people in their 50s (and 60s) supposed to do? College and graduate degrees are not helping in this situation.
I can visualize massive tent cities forming across the United States…..
A big downward spiral…..
gary: reposting from the weekend if you did not see it….
chicagofinance says:
April 22, 2012 at 10:14 pm
sorry gary…don’t shoot the messenger….
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-04-22/software-engineers-will-work-one-day-for-english-majors.html
[77] hehehe,
No, I don’t know anyone at Dewey.
But soon, neither will anyone else.
[77] hehehe,
Supposedly dewey is in merger talks with Greenberg Traurig. Ain’t gonna happen.
Other law firms are picking off partners and groups, and the business that goes with them. Greenberg isn’t going to be interested in taking on unproductive associates and partners, and Dewey’s debts.
There won’t be a merger; just an evaporation.
Sima [85],
The really fun part is when the permanent staff has no issue with openly demonstrating the difference in rules for the company employees vs. the “temp” help. I sometimes can’t help but laugh out loud. “The children with the blue eyes, sit here. Those with brown eyes, sit over there.” LOL!
ChiFi,
Yup, I saw it.
West: just so you appreciate that the CAPM is not some monolithic construct; there is a standing open debate in Hyde Park every day of the week……the biggest joke was at my commencement, they had Merton Miller speak and he said “…..if you are asked what is the correct method to discount cash flows?”…..pregnant pause…”….just use 10%”…..big laughs…..
A.West says:
April 25, 2012 at 10:31 am
Chifi,
With an appropriate discount rate, but not calculated with a CAPM model.
You might enjoy reading Falkenstein’s work.
I did a consult gig at Soc Gen years ago and the 40 person dept had three consultants, me being one. I was there six months. They had a pizza party in front of us three as Pizza was only for employees.
gary says:
April 25, 2012 at 1:25 pm
Sima [85],
The really fun part is when the permanent staff has no issue with openly demonstrating the difference in rules for the company employees vs. the “temp” help. I sometimes can’t help but laugh out loud. “The children with the blue eyes, sit here. Those with brown eyes, sit over there.” LOL!
West: Off the top of my head, I think the critical papers are Fama, McBeth (early 1970’s) that says the CAPM does not work very well but it is not statisitcally rejected, and of course Fama French from 1992….
Gary go West. A buddy of mine who is about 50 yrs old is over at FB showing those whipper snappers how to do it.
JJ’s got a point, Gary your competing against offshore workers and H1 people if you are a developer, IT administrator, or network engineer of some kind. Chances are you are being undercut in wage . That being said I think age discrimination is a serious thing and it is compounded by the fact that there are younger cheaper workers. If you’re willing to work for ~100k a developer job can be had in a few weeks.
Re #63
Gary, do you have a web site though which you can be reached?
I play that old song “House Music All Night Long”, I like the part “you in my house now”! for my consultants.
West: thumb through this stuff….he teaches is Analytical Finance course every fall quarter……
http://faculty.chicagobooth.edu/eugene.fama/research/
Yeah the market isn’t great a friend of mine was telling me one of his developers he laid off 1.5 years ago is now working as a security guard. That’s a kick in the b*lls, going from an income of 100k+ to $12 an hour. Now that being said the guy was not a good developer but that had to kill his family finances.
Westjester [98],
No, I don’t have a website. :)
Brian my late teens to early twenties were like that I have stories that sound straight out of Nebraska. I grew up 15 miles from the city.
It’s not about wage, folks. I’m not asking for nor expecting a higher number than the next guy. It’s just a full time opportunity that would be nice… or at least some selection. The problem isn’t so much job discrimination… it’s that the job market totally su.cks.
gary the problem is they assume you will want to be paid what you’re probably worth and they have a smaller number in mind and therefore don’t even offer it.
I know lots of ex-mainframe guys that moved successfully into data center ops. The hardware changed, but the business was the same. In fact, the windows/linux world was seriously lacking the formalized ops that was old hat in the mainframe world. These new whippersnappers are only just now learning about virtualization in the datacenter.
JJ – Speak for yourself if you have no more energy. I don’t know any “tired” people in their 50s – instead they’re out running around doing all sorts of sports.
Once kids are in college employees have energy and time to devote to work. No distractions. And there is wisdom, which young’uns have no clue about.
JCER #97 You’re kidding, right? There are no $100,000 jobs to contract workers in any field unless you’re really, really lucky. Any contract openings are for the CHEAPEST workers who can do it all.
Like I said before, a downward spiral….
Theo #86 Starting your own business is not for everyone, especially when bills are due, and there is no extra money for anything. No startup money and no money for franchises (which by the way, are very expensive)
(Okay, I admit I’m a tad angry….)
Sima – if you could not see your private parts in the shower you would not have energy either.
Nom,
Yeah I know they are going under, was just wondering if you heard anything from the inside.
106 – Grim
For that Gary should look into getting a certification like ITIL. It is a stand approach for Managing IT services. Many Data Center Ops managers look for this certification.
http://www.itil-officialsite.com/
By the way the job market has always sucked for as long as I’ve ever been employed in IT. Thankfully I am anoyingly stubborn and never listen to what those people said.
Grim, it sounds like you were in technology when it was easier to make bank…my friends and I got into it because we were chasing that…we wanted to be gangsta’s makin’ six figures in our early twenties. Sadly we got into it as our wonderful new co-workers in India were also getting their PhD’s at the university of New Dheli in technology. The IT business blew up with the tech bubble crash and no more good salaries/bonuses/company perks etc.
So my boss at my old job used to tell us how we were lucky to have jobs, you have no idea what it’s like out there, you’ll never make it, keep working till ten PM on saturday, and you’re going to miss the best new years parties on the year 2000 so suck it up.
No one has ever told me it’s great in IT so it is totally normal to me. You know what though, I still like my job. I just adapted. I think human beings have thrived on earth because they’re good a that…adapting.
Chifi, (100)
Been there done that re Fama French. In fact, I once wrote a program in R which semi-automatically downloaded data from French’s website and Yahoo, calculated regular and 3-factor betas, (mkt, hml, smb)as well as outlier-resistant versions, and then plotted the factor loadings over time. I submitted that program to Victor Neiderhoffer’s blog anonymously, with a brief explanation of why one would want to look at it, and later that month he sent me a check for $1000, naming it his post of the month. Here it is, though the graphs in the post have now disappeared.
http://www.dailyspeculations.com/editor/award_nov2005.html
That was sort of interesting, but not really that useful. Miller’s advice to use 10% as the discount rate would be much more useful in practice than 95% of academic finance, for most practitioners. I personally would use 8% these days. If you don’t require x% from your investments, you won’t receive at least x%. Tons of people don’t understand the link between required returns and expected future returns.
Take a look at Falkenstein’s videos and his critique of CAPM.
http://www.efalken.com/video/index.html
Kids in college? I got a kid in pre-school and my oldest is in elementary school. I noticed three sets of people, career driven people, people who party and get married later and people only planning on having 1 or two kids so why rush. These three groups all have young kids in their 50s. A 55 year old man, going to school plays, sports events, up at night with sick kids, caring for his own aging parents does not have as much energy as a 25 year old who lives at home with a short commute.
Sima says:
April 25, 2012 at 2:08 pm
JJ – Speak for yourself if you have no more energy. I don’t know any “tired” people in their 50s – instead they’re out running around doing all sorts of sports.
Once kids are in college employees have energy and time to devote to work. No distractions. And there is wisdom, which young’uns have no clue about.
JCER #97 You’re kidding, right? There are no $100,000 jobs to contract workers in any field unless you’re really, really lucky. Any contract openings are for the CHEAPEST workers who can do it all.
Like I said before, a downward spiral….
Theo #86 Starting your own business is not for everyone, especially when bills are due, and there is no extra money for anything. No startup money and no money for franchises (which by the way, are very expensive)
(Okay, I admit I’m a tad angry….)
Sima [107];
Starting your own business is not for everyone, especially when bills are due, and there is no extra money for anything.
In my gut I agree with that. In my head I see deadbeats stiffing the the mortgage holders, service providers and credit card issuers and sticking their thumb in the eye of anyone who dares ask to be paid (or paid back). I’m coming to the conclusion that anyone who wants some of my money will get as much as I care to give them when I am damn good and ready to give it, not a dollar more or a day sooner.
On a certain level I’m looking forward to my opportunity to lay back into the hammock… uh, safety set.
I see a guy who used to work with me years ago working as a secuity guard Aside from meltdowns like 1987 and 2008 most people make their own bed. I had a lazy staff member, thank god I pushed him out door. At 29 already he was whining about commute to city, balancing work life with a newborn and did not have time to do his MBA. He found a job near his house, not on wall street with 9-5 hours. Actually paid a little more. In reality he is now most overpaid worker there, they will can him in a few years. Wall Street wont want him back, he has no grad degree and he severed ties with his network. He will be 40 and unemployed. I see it all the time. Jesus had to roll back a really big rock to rise from the dead, this guy couldnt take it when wifi was not working on his bus. Replaced that 29 year old with a 26 year old. Like the pony express if you want to keep moving quickly you need to keep getting fresh and young ponies. The old tired ponies have to be put out to pasture.
jcer says:
April 25, 2012 at 1:44 pm
Yeah the market isn’t great a friend of mine was telling me one of his developers he laid off 1.5 years ago is now working as a security guard. That’s a kick in the b*lls, going from an income of 100k+ to $12 an hour. Now that being said the guy was not a good developer but that had to kill his family finances.
Occupy Wall Street Group (OWS) will be holding a “National Day of Action Against Student Debt” demonstration/march today at 4:00 PM.
The march will begin at Union Square Park and terminate at Wall Street. NYPD will be present.
“Age and ruthlessness will always beat youth and enthusiasm.”
-Dee Snyder
Brian,
By the way the job market has always sucked for as long as I’ve ever been employed in IT.
Wrong. Disagree. Even in so-called leaner times, I was getting at least one interview per week. And certifications are a dime a dozen. Get one today, absolete tomorrow. I’ve been there, done that with all of it. The bottom line is that upper management will do anything… anything… to cut headcount and salary. The interviews I’ve had recently are looking for ONE person to do level I thru level III duties. It’s beyond pathetic. It has very little to do with age, too. It’s all about who’s willing and capable to do level I internal/external support and then turn around and optimize a f*cking database, create a new trigger and stored procedure and then resart a failed batch job.
Sima, I’m not talking contract, I’m talking full time. Full time base at most banks out of school is now 75k easy sometimes 80-85 plus bonus. Going rate for a developer at most of these shops is right around 100k.
117 BB like pissing in the wind paid mine with nary a complaint but the again I got an actual degree that had the potential to go into muliple carreer disciplines.
this is what happens when everyone gets a pony, now get off my lawn you damn teenagers!
JJ another round of WS layoffs this week. Since 2008 the number of 25 -34 year olds working at investment banks have dropped by about 25%. That is over 100k jobs for the Gen Yers gone kapoof in four years.
Forbes did a write up on housing to complement. I will quote Gary. “Sell? Sell to Whom?”
How Wall Street Layoffs Will Affect The Housing Market (NY Metro)
http://www.forbes.com/sites/morganbrennan/2012/04/24/how-wall-street-layoffs-will-affect-the-housing-market/
As a fellow Long Islander I agree. Trouble is when you run across a young ruthless person.
I actually got my first Full Time job working in Banking/Brokerage at 18. I worked At Barclays Bank from 18-19, MasterCard 19-22 and another bank from 22-23 and when I was in my Management Training program on wall Street at 23 I had five year experience and was on my fourth job in financial services. Back in the golden days of Wall Street pissed off staff would leave at lunch fill out an application at another firm and be gone the next days. Jobs were plentiful and over a few drinks at Harrys you could get one. I joked how the girl got me an interview at GS, well I also got my job at HSBC from a drunk girl I met and I got an interview at MS same way. Jobs were all got at the bar. People needed people and the HR girl or head trader met someone at Seaport, World Financial Center, Harrys etc. seemed high way bright, could hold a conversation. In fact I think I would of had Ben Bernake Jobs but in one of my final interviews I found out before you stick you hand out to shake hands not a good idea if women has one arm. The Fed actually has a one armed bandit and that is one job I could not get. Heck I have turn down more jobs than I took in my time. Several times in 1990s I got multiple offers. Now jobs are tough. Linked in and Monster makes job hunting much harder. Back in day when it was newspapers ads only and you had to apply in person fewer people applied. Since you saw candidates in person if you were a good suit, had a good smile and some BS you were in like Flynn. Now you are just a nameless nobody in a stack of thousands of CVs where the computer search decides.
Brian says:
April 25, 2012 at 2:59 pm
“Age and ruthlessness will always beat youth and enthusiasm.”
-Dee Snyder
Re: Brass Balls “I see a guy who used to work with me years ago working as a secuity guard Aside from meltdowns like 1987 and 2008 most people make their own bed.”
Come on! Think of the massive pharma layoffs in NJ in recent years. Merck took over Schering-Plough and basically laid off everyone (thousands) because they wanted the products, not the people. All these well-educated smart people are now up a creek because there is no more pharma growth in the US. So what other non-pharma fields will take people in their 50s and 60s and give them a chance?
Also, when companies have massive lay-offs they like to lay off “older” workers to reduce their costs.
The “make your own bed” comment is utter BS to make you feel like only those “deserving it” get laid off, to appease your own conscience or to reassure yourself that it won’t happen to you. After all, those still with jobs are because they are perfect and deserving…
I have never been laid off or fired from a job in my lift. I am the Derrick Jetter of Wall Street. I am not supposed to say that out loud. But to be honest this round of lay-offs we had in 2008-2010 was nothing next to 1987 to 1992 on Wall Street. I know so many people that completely left the industry. Something like 8 of the ten largest broker dealers, Drexel, Hutton, Paine Webber, Dean Witter, Kidder Peabody, Pru Bache, Salomon Brothers etc. all went down like Dominos. Wall street was a place in the 1950s, 60s, 70s and even early 80s where no college degree was required. Many a midlevel manager making 70-100K a year back in 1986 iwth a HS degree was fired in crash and never worked again. People forget how much worse it was. My department in 1987 had 300 employees, only 4 had college degrees. Me being one of them. After that lay-off I never saw any of them ever again. I dont fee so sorry for a Bear or Lehman employee with an IVY league degree let go. He hit a bump in road and is doing just fine in 2012. Those folks back then it was all over. That plus housing and stocks collasped and did not really recover till 1993 ment the laid off in 1987 was cooked for good.
Juice Box says:
April 25, 2012 at 3:09 pm
JJ another round of WS layoffs this week. Since 2008 the number of 25 -34 year olds working at investment banks have dropped by about 25%. That is over 100k jobs for the Gen Yers gone kapoof in four years.
Forbes did a write up on housing to complement. I will quote Gary. “Sell? Sell to Whom?”
How Wall Street Layoffs Will Affect The Housing Market (NY Metro)
Who is this Rembrant guy anyway? Does he have a facebook page or is he on linkedin?
Sima [124],
Bingo! I couldn’t agree more.
They made the mistake of entering a single industry firm and staying in it long term. They rolled the dice and made a fortune between 21 and 50. I have neighbors who do that pharma work and it sucks. I even interviewed some Pfizer people recently who want to work on wall st. All moaning patents expring, off shoring, industry consolidation the place is a dead end.
Sima says:
April 25, 2012 at 3:18 pm
Re: Brass Balls “I see a guy who used to work with me years ago working as a secuity guard Aside from meltdowns like 1987 and 2008 most people make their own bed.”
Come on! Think of the massive pharma layoffs in NJ in recent years. Merck took over Schering-Plough and basically laid off everyone (thousands) because they wanted the products, not the people. All these well-educated smart people are now up a creek because there is no more pharma growth in the US. So what other non-pharma fields will take people in their 50s and 60s and give them a chance?
Also, when companies have massive lay-offs they like to lay off “older” workers to reduce their costs.
The “make your own bed” comment is utter BS to make you feel like only those “deserving it” get laid off, to appease your own conscience or to reassure yourself that it won’t happen to you. After all, those still with jobs are because they are perfect and deserving…
brian I think he is a dutch painter or stoner not sure which one ; )
JJ, plenty of people who were good loyal employees who were earning their living got the Ax where I used to work. Yes we got rid of some real dead wood but after the first two rounds they were only cutting down healthy trees.
As for the headcount comments, yes every manager I know was trying to show more output with less spend. On the contrary where I was head count was way up eliminate 10 FTE’s and replace with 15 offshore contractors.
#128 So in other words it’s blame the victim time. Anyone who liked what they did, were good at what they did, and so stayed in one industry, are absolute fools? And it’s their fault they were laid off?
Don’t you get it? People looking for jobs desperately WANT to work. They are not moaners and whiners, – they just can’t believe that after giving their all they were thrown overboard and now can’t get back on the boat no matter how desperately they are swimming and treading water.
Sima – should not look at it as being a victim, it won’t do you any good long term.
Re #102
Gary
I was expecting a little more of a response.
Too bad.
#132 You’re absolutely right. But it is like a nightmare…
I am not a job hopper, but this is my 7th company I have worked for out of school. Once you break year 6 sometimes you get trapped. Other think is what you are good at, what you like to do has no bearing on salary. I have killed lab animals, shined shoes, deliver newspapers, scrubbed toliets, eating chicken sushi raw at client meetings in asia. You pay me I do it. Pharma was nice, it is over, move on. Typewriter repairmen, Y2K progammers, Token Booth Clerks move on. Heck once I was a microfilmer of Checks, a Page in a Libary whose main purpose was I knew Dewey Decimal system and shelved books. Dozens and Dozens of Jobs I have are gone, companies I worked for gone under, I am flexible. You want me in Korea in morning to consult on rice production. I am there tommorow. Korean phrase book and a few internet searchs on rice and I am your man. Pharma is gone. Just like Record Stores.
jcer says:
April 25, 2012 at 3:38 pm
JJ, plenty of people who were good loyal employees who were earning their living got the Ax where I used to work. Yes we got rid of some real dead wood but after the first two rounds they were only cutting down healthy trees.
As for the headcount comments, yes every manager I know was trying to show more output with less spend. On the contrary where I was head count was way up eliminate 10 FTE’s and replace with 15 offshore contractors.
Sima (131):
I would ignore JJ, he is a legend in his own mind. All he does it make up stories 24/7. The only thing JJ is good at is sucking up so he can keep his gubbmint welfare job.
Truth be told, every industry is shrinking. Lots and lots of talented and smart people are losing their jobs. That’s what happens when you are in a modern depression.
Hang in there!
are you really desparate to work? what would you do for money? Absestos abatement, powerline repairman, rotor rotor cesspool cleaner, lab rat for products? Seriously what would you do? Some of the people I interviewed I told them about other jobs and wont even consider sales, travel, long hours, etc. They want the job they had that no longer exists.
Sima says:
April 25, 2012 at 3:43 pm
#128 So in other words it’s blame the victim time. Anyone who liked what they did, were good at what they did, and so stayed in one industry, are absolute fools? And it’s their fault they were laid off?
Don’t you get it? People looking for jobs desperately WANT to work. They are not moaners and whiners, – they just can’t believe that after giving their all they were thrown overboard and now can’t get back on the boat no matter how desperately they are swimming and treading water.
Luckily I am talent, smart and good looking and hung like a donkey. Talented and Smart is not enough.
Actually thinking of some cost cutting measures at work. Does any one have any good things your company did to save cost.
All Hype says:
April 25, 2012 at 4:35 pm
Sima (131):
I would ignore JJ, he is a legend in his own mind. All he does it make up stories 24/7. The only thing JJ is good at is sucking up so he can keep his gubbmint welfare job.
Truth be told, every industry is shrinking. Lots and lots of talented and smart people are losing their jobs. That’s what happens when you are in a modern depression.
Hang in there!
Westjester [134],
I think you asked if I had a website. Correct? I believe linkedin is the closest thing to my own personal website. For obvious reasons, I can’t give it here. What additional information were you expecting?
re# 135 – Sima – toughen up already. You have an internet connection, a roof over your head and a fridge full of food which makes it infinitesimally better than being a goat herder or subsistence farmer from whatever god forsaken corner of the world your ancestors come from. Things aren’t at the point where you have to start selling yourself or stealing. Things are cyclical, you just need to survive for the next evolution.
JJ – talking away the Aeron chairs worked during the dot com days…
Meantime in Westfield: 4br colonial (south side) goes for sale @ 639k. Sells in two (2) days, mult. offers, well above asing. Nicely kept house, a full bathroom in the basement, c’mon, for that $$ I want my master suite
“Luckily I am talent, smart and good looking and hung like a donkey. Talented and Smart is not enough.”
Give me a break. You are probably 5 foot 8 inches tall and weigh 300 pounds. All your stories you make up are just rehashed tales told to you by real men. The popular kids kept you around cause you made them laugh. You probably looked like the fat kid from Super Bad growing up. You probably married the first girl that gave you some.
Sima, situations like pharma’s in NJ are why I am always discouraging youngsters thinking about their college major from going into science. I think only 2 categories should do it – those with desire and ability to go to the medical school or become a patent lawyer , and those whose brilliance makes them stand 2 heads above the competition. Anyone simply smart, curious and thinking that he or she would be allowed to play in the lab and be paid for it for 40 years is up for a rude disappointment. China and India are full of his peers.
All of us here should never forget that the only thing between jj and living out of a grocery cart is a gubmint put underneath his whole industry…and the fact that his industry has also managed to co-opt every branch of the US gubmint.
Financialization has utterly destroyed the US economy. The only thing covering up that fact is a gubmint and media that has been completely locked up with bribes.
139 –
They fired a bunch of overpaid people in management here. Things were fine nobody even skipped a beat.
No comment:
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-201_162-57421337/tsa-screeners-charged-in-la-drug-trafficking-probe/?google_editors_picks=true
JJ’s attitude is likely shared my many execs, completely failing to see the forest through the trees. An American pharmaceutical scientist is equivalent to a “typewriter repair man”?
The reality is, American businesses have been offshoring highly-skilled jobs for many years, in the name of chasing short term “profits” and completely ignoring long term consequences. When the dust settles, and there are no good-paying jobs left in America, these same people will ask “What happened?”
that govt. Cheese sure is tasty. The student loan occupy folks are marching by my office soon, have to go all madman and throw some water ballons on them
There Went Meat says:
April 25, 2012 at 5:06 pm
All of us here should never forget that the only thing between jj and living out of a grocery cart is a gubmint put underneath his whole industry…and the fact that his industry has also managed to co-opt every branch of the US gubmint.
“You probably married the first girl that gave you some.”
You mean I am supposed to be getting some from my wife? Now you tell me. Had I known, we wouldn’t have had to get all those doners involved. Who knew it it would take 100-200 times for a woman to get pregnant each time?
“failing to see the forest through the trees. ”
screw the trees i am out looking for bush.
File this under, “Dude! Don’t bogart the Purell, man.”
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504763_162-57420106-10391704/drinking-hand-sanitizer-sends-calif-teens-to-hospital-drunk-doctors-warn/?tag=re1.channel
John,
Here is a woman for you:
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504763_162-20055694-10391704.html?tag=re1.channel
Too many people have yet to come to grips with the fact that life as they know it is changing rapidly.
401k’s, IRA’s, sovereign bonds, retirement pensions, health benefits, are all instruments of the last 50 years of credit expansion. The bill is now due. The sun has set on NY’s financial monopoly and the Chinese, amongst others. are walking off with everything valuable.
The next crash will make 2008 look like a picnic.
I’m entertained by today’s banter. JJ is on a roll. Never thought that I would see thing as stagnate as they are in today’s market. But also see a lot of people who fail up. Those seemingly worthless individuals who somehow manage to land great jobs after failing in their initial attempts.
Nom;
Diana Moon Glampers, call your office.
http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2012/04/25/only-boy-playing-field-hockey-on-long-island-banned-for-being-too-good/
[158] moose,
Glampers is running for Senate in Massachusetts.
Re #144
Gary
I want to contact you privately about IT employment. I work in IT for a large bank in NYC.
thank you, nice article for sharing.http://www.listadeemail.org
Wonderful internet site, determined several something entirely new! Subscribed RSS for later, aspire to see far more updates exactly like it. 163578