Case Shiller too laggy to be useful any more?

From Business Insider:

Deutsche Bank Hammers Another Nail Into The Case-Shiller Coffin

Tuesday morning, we get the April Case-Shiller home price index. Economists estimate that the 20-city index climbed 0.4 percent month-over-month. But prices are also expected be down by 2.3 percent year-over-year.

However, we’ve heard a number of experts question the quality of the index.

Kevin Caron, strategist for Stifel Nicolaus, told Business Insider that the lag in home price data may be much greater than advertised:

The data doesn’t hit the database until the public filing after closing. But the closing may be months after the agreement between buyer and seller (and the banks that provide financing). Ultimately, the lag can be a long time (maybe six months) between when a price is agreed upon, the mortgage is secured, the closing occurs, and the sale is recorded and available for public use.

Bill McBride of Calculated Risk estimates that the lag could be as high as seven months.

According to a new note to clients, Deutsche Bank Chief U.S. Economist Joe LaVorgna fully expects tomorrow’s Case-Shiller number to give an inaccurate read on U.S. home prices.

“[W]e believe C-S is understating recent home price appreciation, as a broad array of other home price metrics is showing a more significant improvement in pricing behavior,” wrote LaVorgna.

He cites four competing home price measures that all show home prices increasing year-over-year, which conflicts with the decline in the Case-Shiller number. For example, the CoreLogic home price series, arguably the broadest measure of home prices in the US, has increased four months in a row at a +11.8% annualized rate. This is the fastest rate since the four months ending November 2005 (+11.7%). Over the past year, the CoreLogic series is up +1.1% (See chart below). Importantly, the FHFA home price figures have shown similar price appreciation; the series is up three months in a row at a +11.3% annualized pace. Over the last 12 months, FHFA prices have increased +3.0%.

Additionally, the improvement in the year-over-year growth rates is corroborated by both the median existing and new home price data, where the gains are +7.9% and +5.6%, respectively. Hence, we have four different home price metrics that are showing much more substantial home prices improvement than C-S, leading us to downplay the significance of the latter.

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132 Responses to Case Shiller too laggy to be useful any more?

  1. The Original NJ Expat says:


  2. grim says:

    From the AP:

    NJ foreclosures could become affordable housing

    Lawmakers have sent to Gov. Chris Christie a bill that would allow New Jersey towns to buy foreclosed homes and turn them into affordable housing.

    The measure would temporarily create the New Jersey Foreclose Relief Corporation for five years.

    Towns would have 45 days to decide whether to buy the home. If not, the corporation could buy it and restrict it as affordable housing for 30 years.

  3. The Original NJ Expat says:

    On a whim, I just Googled white flight “back to the cities”. Top hit:

  4. The Original NJ Expat says:

    [3] from the article:

    “Once upon a time, a newcomer to the big city was most likely a country bumpkin obliged to make his way among the sophisticates. But the in-migration today is coming from the suburbs, whose denizens are relatively well-off and capable of wielding cultural power in their new neighborhoods.

    Whatever is making them leave the suburbs(Expat: Taxes?, Declining services and schools? Bag-holder new neighbors?), they appear to be bringing their suburban tastes with them, and remaking the city in their image. Demographers find that these urban newcomers are split between suburban-raised upwardly mobile professionals and empty-nesters.”

  5. Mike says:

    Good Morning New Jersey

  6. Mike says:

    North Jersey Number 1 In The Country Even Beats Out California

  7. The Original NJ Expat says:

    Maybe Deutsche Bank wants to discount Case-Shiller so nobody pays attention when statements like this are made by the author of a now defunct model:

    “Robert Shiller of the Standard & Poor’s/Case-Shiller Home Price Index made the dramatic statement that, with our growing shift to renting and city living, suburban home prices may never rebound in our lifetime.”

  8. JJ says:

    Housing is no longer that important. Housing used to be ones main source of wealth and way of growing wealth. Many people lost homes, are underwater or are renters. Folks like me who actually own their home have seen the value on paper fly all over the place up and down. It is about as useful in terms of wealth as the value of ones Hummels and Beanie Babies.

    Going forward one will grow wealth via income, bond interest, stock dividends and capital gains and paying down debt. One can also grow wealth through income properties bought at discounted prices. The primary residence as a wealth builder ended in Spring 2006.

  9. Fast Eddie says:

    A close commute to New York City and home to some of the top-rated schools in the state, northern New Jersey’s desirable real estate remains out-of-reach for many house hunters. Last year, median-income households would have needed a 24% raise to afford purchasing a single-family home, according to the latest metro data by the NAR. Nationally, median households had nearly double the money they needed to buy a home.

    Residents pay $529 extra in mortgage payments on average than they do in rent, according to Marcus & Millichap, a real-estate investment brokerage firm. Owners also pay high property taxes: Bergen and Essex counties, both in north N.J., are among the most expensive areas for property taxes in the U.S., charging a median $8,200 to nearly $9,000, according to 2009 data (the latest available) from the Tax Foundation. (National median property taxes were $1,917.)

    In some cases, sellers who are trying to unload their homes are also offering them for rent at a cheaper cost. In Ho Ho Kus, N.J., a nearly 11,000-square-foot home is on sale for $754,000, but it’s also up for rent at $3,700 a month. A buyer who makes a 10% down payment and signs up for a 30-year mortgage at a 3.7% rate would pay $3,123 a month on the loan in addition to nearly $11,000 in property taxes for a total of about $4,020 a month.

    In Englewood Cliffs, about a 15-minute drive from Manhattan, a four-bedroom, three-bath single-family home is listed for sale at $699,000 and for rent at $3,000 a month. Under the same terms, an owner would pay about $3,410 a month on the mortgage payment and property taxes.

    It makes my blood f*cking boil just thinking about it. I’ve been saying this over and over and over. You will never see the words “property tax” from the house pushing shills in our area. The affordibility model is blown to smithereens when the tax coefficient is plugged in. Again, anyone who is even THINKING about making a bid on a house better circle the property tax with a big red marker and a note stating that this is the reason for the “adjusted” offer.

    If that doesn’t convince the fat f*ck sellers, maybe the multiple rejection letters from mortgage loan applications will convince them, due to the fact that the f*cking monthly tax payment will exceed the f*cking mortgage and no one can afford to fund the fat f*cking muppets pension (extortation) obligations. So, what do think is going to crack? You’re correct… the price. It has been and will continue to fall. We’ll be down close to 40% from peak by 2014.

    Like I said the other day; we went to an open house in Woodcliff Lake this past Sunday. We were there 30 minutes and no else showed up. Sure… they’re just banging down the doors with multiple offers. F*ck me? No, f*ck you.

  10. freedy says:

    Most of the conversations I have with homeowners and potential homeowners drops off when the tax issues come up. Most just don’t get it . After all living in NNJ is special.

    All towns have the best schools ,downtowns,etc. It’s even worst when you discuss it
    with those who have been born here and have never seen how other parts of the country are . It’s sometimes strange when you ask if they have ever been to St. Louis.

  11. Fast Eddie says:

    Going forward one will grow wealth via income, bond interest, stock dividends and capital gains and paying down debt.

    I couldn’t agree more, but the diabetic muppets are too lazy and too impatient to formulate a long term plan and stick to it. I’ve been doing it for close to 20 years now which is why I go ballistic when I have f*cking Barbie telling me, “this town is bleeding wealth” or “take out a HELOC on your home to buy another but lie to the bank on the reason you want the loan.”

  12. Fast Eddie says:


    Let’s ask these people if living in NNJ is special:

  13. JJ says:

    My property tax on my little dumpy POS tiny split is less than the interest income I will earn next week. People buy more house than they need.

    Think about this. A home with 12K property tax may sound high, but you get police, fire, garbage pick-up, parks, library, schools, EMT, snow removal all in that 12k. This issue may not be the 12k, the issue is the real estate bubble. If Real Estate never shot to the moon and banks never lowered lending standards there would be less complaints about RE taxes. Think about it. My idiot new neighbor paid 480K for a house with 11K taxes. That house is really only worth 300K, if banks kept their standards up and required 25% down as they did in 1991 at most he could have a 225k loan. Instead today you can still put down 10%, at 480K he could have a 432,000 loan. That extra $207,000 mortgage is the killer.

    Case in point I bought my old coop at bottom of market in 1991 for 27K with $550 a month maint, my mortgage was $160 a month for a grand total of $710 a month. I never complaint about maint, maint on a coop includes RE tax and interest on underlying mortgage too.

    Flash forward today, ran into a women who lives in same building and she was complaining the maint was high. I ask her what is she paying on her one bedrrom, she says 579 a month. I am like 20 years ago I paid 550 a month how is 579 high. She then goes well those one bedrooms now sell for 227K. My favorite course of all time I took with this guy named Bershooti, it was a nickname. Bershooti was named after and extremely long Italian Susage. Anyhow I took this law class where guy said final can be cumalitive and attendence dont count. Well Bershoot told me he had a secret way for us to pass, told me Slybus has final date and dont worry come final week I will give you secret. Well Bershoot had all the ladies and never studied and I am 18 so what the heck. So 16 weeks later I go test is tommorow. He goes swing by my room. Tells me key is this, all the other guys will look like crap from studying all night. We should shave, put some aftershave on, blowdry the hair, iron our clothes and dress to impress and get at least eight hours sleep, told me get up in morning do all this and meet him for a good breakfast. Mind you I have not attended a single class and I am taken a cumaltive law final. I try to study anyhow by borrowing the book but give up. Anyhow we have a great breakfast we go to test and I think he is banging TA or something, he then tells me his secret is we find two ugly girls sitting one seat apart you sit aside one ugly girl you sit next to another ugly girl and who every gets answers fist shares. Well does this work I go, he goes it always works. Anyhow we must have got two lesbos as neither shared and were covering paper, I am like JC, Bershot was smooth as silk. Two hours and 50 minutes into test I got nothing, anyhow there was an ugly girl in front she comes walking up aisle after dropping off test, looks at me and Bershoot goes you guys are pathetic, hits me on heat with rolled up piece of paper and storms out. I look around and as soon as people look away I get paper, it is test answers, I jot them down with three minutes to spare, toss them to Bershoot, clog up teachers so Bershoot can finish up his scrantron sheet we hand them in and Bershoot goes see it always works. And look how good we look next to the rest of the guys. Bet we even get laid tonight. AHHH the lessons learned. People putting 10% down have a 200K mortgage plus a 579k maint. We are fighting as the maint puts us over the edge. It aint the maint puttting you over the edge it is fact I took out a 20K mortgage and you took out a 200K mortgage.

  14. JJ says:

    Re 12, Karen was poor long before she lost her job. Supporting a condo, mortgage payments, a car, a kid and paying for a childs college on 75K a year is impossible. Additionally, she got a divorce which is a wealth destroyer. Most Paralegals also do not have a full four year college degree.

    Karen’s issue started when she did not graduate with a sold four year degree in a major that pays well, she then married poorly resulting in divorce, she then over leveraged herself by buying the condo and agreeing to help pay for school for her kid. The straw that broke the camels back was losing her 75K job.

    Karen Levi doesn’t think of herself as being poor.
    Karen Levi of Mahwah has a decade of experience in marketing and publishing, and is a certified paralegal, yet she had not had a full-time job in three years.

    After all, she has a condo in Mahwah, 10 years’ experience in marketing and publishing and, before the recession struck, she was making $75,000 a year.

  15. Fast Eddie says:

    Rick Santelli can gut a fish without a knife. He asked the question: How are we going to save the Euro today? Lol!! He said we’ll be talking about it three years from now after the umpteenth version of rescue is in place!

  16. Mikeinwaiting says:

    Gary 9
    Wife looking at RE on GSMLS across from me on her computer this morn, “look at this house” first words out of my mouth “what are the taxes?”. Saw one ( she may be on to something) better location 10k cheaper & a bit larger than the one I am buying. Oh sh*t did I “F” up, honey get off the pictures & go to the details (numbers, never goes there!), I turn from my PC just shy of double of mine! No I didn’t “F”up. I not in love with my pending purchase I am in love with the numbers and the boss likes it, so……….

  17. Mikeinwaiting says:

    And folks keep buying: ICSC Retail Store Sales: 2.0% W/W, vs. 0.0% last week. +2.7% Y/Y, vs. +3.6% last week.
    And the band keep playing on the Titanic .

  18. JJ says:

    Isnt it possible to look up homes current assessed value vs. what you can get it for.

    If home purchase is less than assessed value you got a good chance of getting taxes lowered, if home assessed value equals or is greater than selling price with high taxes I would say run.

    Idiot people next door bought a house at 480K that has highest taxes on the block and it is assessed at 452K. They will have great difficulty grieving those taxes. However, if they were able to get the home for 405K it might be a better deal as although they would be stuck with high taxes still for 1-2 years they have a good shot at lowering it, in their case they may end up actually getting their taxes raised when they already have highest taxed home on block.

    Mikeinwaiting says:
    June 26, 2012 at 8:40 am

    Gary 9
    Wife looking at RE on GSMLS across from me on her computer this morn, “look at this house” first words out of my mouth “what are the taxes?”. Saw one ( she may be on to something) better location 10k cheaper & a bit larger than the one I am buying. Oh sh*t did I “F” up, honey get off the pictures & go to the details (numbers, never goes there!), I turn from my PC just shy of double of mine! No I didn’t “F”up. I not in love with my pending purchase I am in love with the numbers and the boss likes it, so……

  19. Mikeinwaiting says:

    keep/kept, more coffee.

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  21. JJ says:

    Retail sales should be way up, I was in Best Buy on Saturday buying stuff and laptops and stuff are flying off shelf. If people are no longer buying housing, stocks or bonds and have been paying down debt since 2009 as long as they still have a job their cash keeps piling up. Talk is now more about what do I do with all my cash as opposed to 2009 when it was what do I do with all my bills.

  22. 3B says:

    10 Fast: The article can say whatever it wants to say, but prices certainly are not increasing in north Jersey. And yet another school funding battle Hillsdale River Vale vs. Montvale Woodcliff Lake.

    The state takes all the money and gives it to the Abbot districts, meanwhile the towns that get nothing fight among themselves.

  23. Mikeinwaiting says:

    JJ I plan on getting mine lowered so the spread would pretty much stay the same.

  24. seif says:

    Just closed in The ‘Fly:

    Last LP: $799,000 ML#: 1207738
    Addr: 43 LAWRENCE PKWY
    Twn: TENAFLY Zip: 07670

    Orig LP: $799,000
    Sold: $812,000
    SD: 6/22/2012 UCD: 5/10/2012 DOM: 70

    I am very surprised that this one went over list. I have been in the house; great block but a very odd, prefab kind of house with lots of wasted space. It was listed for a but a year and went nowhere, then re-listed and went after 70 days.

  25. Mikeinwaiting says:

    It is not about the number I can afford this monthly crap for sheep, it is about getting the lowest taxes I can find. I fully expect them to double in the next 10 years then I can say “I can afford this monthly”! Gotta pay for those pensions with Cadillac medical for life for 50 year old retires don’t you know.

  26. Bagholder Brian says:

    JJ, I agree with you if we are talking about building individual wealth but don’t you think housing plays a bigger role in the U.S. economy? People that buy houses require domestic labor generating jobs and require raw materials to build houses. People who buy used SFH’s require new roofs, kitchens, baths all sorts of durable goods and crap at home depot etc generating more economic activity.

    Of course, the primary residence as an individual wealth builder was never a good idea. The case/shiller graphs show that it’s just too volatile. Haven’t we beaten that horse to death here though?

    However, the macroeconomic effects of swings in the housing market seem quite severe and would affect how you decide to build your wealth wouldn’t it? So, is it really not important?

    8.JJ says:
    June 26, 2012 at 8:05 am
    Housing is no longer that important. Housing used to be ones main source of wealth and way of growing wealth. Many people lost homes, are underwater or are renters. Folks like me who actually own their home have seen the value on paper fly all over the place up and down. It is about as useful in terms of wealth as the value of ones Hummels and Beanie Babies.

    Going forward one will grow wealth via income, bond interest, stock dividends and capital gains and paying down debt. One can also grow wealth through income properties bought at discounted prices. The primary residence as a wealth builder ended in Spring 2006.

  27. Mikeinwaiting says:

    Apr S&P Case-Shiller Home Price Index: 0.7%M/M vs. 0.4 expected, 0.1% prior. -1.9% Y/Y vs. -2.3% expected, -2.6% prior

  28. Sima says:

    Everybody focus on the national median property taxes from the # 6 article:
    “Owners also pay high property taxes: Bergen and Essex counties, both in north N.J., are among the most expensive areas for property taxes in the U.S., charging a median $8,200 to nearly $9,000, according to 2009 data (the latest available) from the Tax Foundation. (National median property taxes were $1,917.) ”
    National median: $1917. !!!

  29. AG says:

    Time for neighborhoods to form their own LLC’s to protect them from both the Fed and the state.


    Sounds like a business opportunity.

  30. The Original NJ Expat says:

    [26] Brian – Roofs and durable goods yes, kitchens & baths no. If there was a law on the books such that your kids got free college tuition if your bath and kitchen was at least 20 years old there wouldn’t be much of a market for granite counters and I don’t think lifestyles would be much damaged either. Our toilet and tub are originals from 1926, BTW. I bet our bowl has never clogged, certainly hasn’t in the 10 years we’ve owned it. I guess 8 gallons/flush helps.

    People who buy used SFH’s require new roofs, kitchens, baths all sorts of durable goods and crap

  31. Fast Eddie says:

    Sima [28],

    It’s a product of one of the greatest heists ever designed. It’s akin to feeding the junkie slowly so they don’t even realize how hooked they really are.

  32. Pete says:

    JJ #17,

    I think you are right and it could be a good tactic to focus on purchasing a house where the taxes are too high. Since the taxes are baked in to the purchase price, you would actually be getting a discount on the purchase. Then you appeal taxes, they come down, and your house’s value instantly goes up.

    I say I like this approach but would actually be too chicken to employ it due to what I’ve read here about the fickle nature of some tax appeals.

  33. Bagholder Brian says:

    Expat the town water company here is not supported by any tax revenue. They are very expensive. Best thing I ever did was replace the toilet installed circa 1949 with a toto 1.2 gal flush. Old “standard” toilet used at least 6 gallons per flush. Immediately lowered my water bills and the toilet practically paid for itself. It works great too. It had no problem swallowing my 3 1/2 year old’s t-shirt and underpants a short time ago.

    If I could do it again though, I think I would install the American Standard. Plumber put a new 1.2 gal flush Am std upstairs and it works just as good as the toto but cost much less.

    “Our toilet and tub are originals from 1926, BTW. I bet our bowl has never clogged, certainly hasn’t in the 10 years we’ve owned it. I guess 8 gallons/flush helps.”

  34. The Original NJ Expat says:

    [30] And our 1979 Kitchen has Almond appliances, formica counters and a bright red tile backsplash, but everything still works, including the ’79 Convection oven and ’79 Frost-free fridge. The fridge costs me $500/year in electricity which is crazy, but it’s an odd size that they only make really cheap models now that would fit the space. Somehow I know if I replace that fridge it’ll cost me $30,000 if my wife’s remodel light get’s switched on.

  35. Painhrtz - Oooh a Donut! says:

    3B yet the morons in those towns don’t get why their taxes are so high. We get a financial statement from randolph every year detailing expeditures. From 2010 to 2011 we have 4 less cops. Crime suspiciously went down. town saves a 7% surplus. Municipal costs account for something like 23% of all expenditures. School system a whopping 69%! Town probably sends a ridiculous amount of income taxes to the state every year for schools and gets crap back. Now even if we got back even half of what we sent in income back from the state my 7K property taxes would probably be 4K. I don’t even claim to live in a blue ribbony town, and like you I took the town financial health into account before we moved.

    F*cking abbott districts will be the end of us all.

  36. The Original NJ Expat says:

    [35] Pain –

    In 2008, a Fairleigh Dickinson University PublicMind poll surveyed New Jersey residents about their awareness of and attitudes towards the Abbott decisions; 57% of voters reported that they had heard or read “nothing at all” about the Abbott decisions. Only 12% of voters responded that they had read or heard “a great deal” about the Abbott decisions.[13] The survey also found that, despite a seeming lack of knowledge about the Abbott decisions, voters in New Jersey largely approved of the court decisions with 55% of the public approving and 28% disapproving.[13] Dr. Peter Woolley, Executive Director of the PublicMind Poll, explained the results by stating, “voters don’t know the details but they agree with the principles.”

  37. The Original NJ Expat says:

    The following 31 school districts are currently identified as Abbott districts:

    Asbury Park Public Schools (Asbury Park)
    Bridgeton Public Schools (Bridgeton)
    The City Of Burlington Public School District (Burlington City)
    Camden City Public Schools (Camden)
    East Orange School District (East Orange)
    Elizabeth Public Schools (Elizabeth)
    Garfield Public Schools (Garfield)
    Gloucester City Public Schools (Gloucester City)
    Harrison Public Schools (Harrison)
    Hoboken Public Schools (Hoboken)
    Irvington Public Schools (Irvington)
    Jersey City Public Schools (Jersey City)
    Keansburg School District (Keansburg)
    Long Branch Public Schools (Long Branch)
    Millville Public Schools (Millville)
    Neptune Township Schools (Neptune Township)
    New Brunswick Public Schools (New Brunswick)
    Newark Public Schools (Newark)
    Orange Board of Education (Orange)
    Passaic City School District (Passaic)
    Paterson Public Schools (Paterson)
    Pemberton Township School District (Pemberton Township)
    Perth Amboy Public Schools (Perth Amboy)
    Phillipsburg School District (K-12 from Phillipsburg, 9-12 from Alpha, Bloomsbury (in Hunterdon County), Greenwich Township, Lopatcong Township and Pohatcong Township)
    Plainfield Public School District (Plainfield)
    Pleasantville Public Schools (K-12 from Pleasantville, 9-12 from Absecon)
    Salem City School District (Salem, New Jersey)
    Trenton Public Schools (Trenton)
    Union City Board of Education (Union City)
    Vineland Public Schools (Vineland)
    West New York School District (West New York)

  38. 1987 Condo buyer says:

    #35 Yep, I took an Urban Planning class at Rutgers/MBA back in the late 80’s and that decision was targeted as “changing everythin” in the state….a huge percentage of the State Income tax goes to just those 30 or so districts. If you just gave every student in the state the pro rata amount we’d see all our school taxes drop fairly dramaticaly..I am sure someone here will do the math for us!

  39. jcer says:

    1979 almond appliances, lets rename this the NNJ Cheapskate blog. Probably should replace that kitchen, I’ll admit they don’t make appliances like they used to, 10-20 year old fridges were the norm, my $2500 GE Profile fridge is 4 years old and I think it won’t be long now until it stops working, what a piece.

  40. Painhrtz - Oooh a Donut! says:

    Expat – Since I grew up in Garfield I can tell you all about the graft, patronage and waste in the school system. I’m pretty sure the other 30 districts are models of efficiency and put the taxpayers dollars to use gaining a thorough and efficient education as mandated by the state constitution.

  41. The Original NJ Expat says:

    [39] A friend of mine built new 10 years ago. Every appliance in his kitchen has failed since then.

  42. The Original NJ Expat says:

    [4o] Pain – Holy crap! I had no idea per pupil costs are easily topping $20K in Abbot districts. I figured every place was $13-$16K or so.

    I don’t know why Stu doesn’t sell his GR house and move to Irvington. They spend $23K per student and in GR it’s only $15K. I think the taxes are way lower in Irvington too.

  43. 1987 Condo buyer says:

    #42, yes, in the attempt to “equalize” all student quality of education we defaulted to using money spent as the yardstick, and then decided that we would spend 50% to 100% more per student than we do in the “Blue Ribbon” towns….

  44. Mikeinwaiting says:

    Pain 40 Try N. Bergen in Hudson County we wrote the book patronage , graft & waste.
    The school system in one big politically controlled machine for over 40 years.

  45. The Original NJ Expat says:

    [43] ’87 Condo – And how exactly is that supposed to get their parents off crack, meth, or horse? Seriously, they should just take all the money from the free lunch program and use it to send big sacks of beans, rice, a couple bushels of apples, and 30 lbs of govt cheese to the homes each month. If the kids aren’t coming to school with the lunch their parents packed for them then where is the real problem, at home or at school? You can’t fix a problem at point A by pumping money into point B. That would be like if we just gave free money to the banks expecting…oh… wait a minute.

    #42, yes, in the attempt to “equalize” all student quality of education we defaulted to using money spent as the yardstick, and then decided that we would spend 50% to 100% more per student than we do in the “Blue Ribbon” towns….

  46. Painhrtz - Oooh a Donut! says:

    mike those of us who grew up in Abbott districts probably can all testify to the efficient use of taxpayer dollars to feather the nests of the local gentry, teaching kids not so much.

    condo – but it is racist if you state the reasons. One set of schools has parents who are involved, interested and care about their kids future. The other have been on the government teet, their kids will be on the government teet, unstable homes, no value in education or even being functional members of society.

    Liberals measure the success of their ideas based on the grandness of their intentions not the actual results.

    Money is never going to fix the broken culture that causes these kids not to be successful students. Unfortunately for all of us, nobody elected has the backbone to actually state it.

  47. Anon E. Moose says:

    Pain [46];

    I’m remembering a recent discussion about the obstacles to a partent actaully getting involved with helping teach their kids (unorthodox cirricula, teaching methods, etc.). The idea is that the parents aren’t SUPPOSED to get involved — if the parents got involved, then who would be the teachers’ go-to scapegoat? It couldn’t possibly be the teachers’ fault!

  48. Libtard in Union says:

    This is the stove we have in our multi. Only ours has an analog clock where the corkboard is.

    Stove is in near mint condition. Everything comes apart for easy cleaning. Even the handles come off the doors. Haven’t had a repair on it in the the 12 years in which we rented/owned it. It’s even on wheels so it can be rolled in and out to sweep underneath it. The timer still works, but the clock doesn’t. It looks cool as hell when the flourescent bulb is on. The oven bakes better and more evenly than anything you can buy today at any price, which is why we choose not to replace it. Our 8-year tenants loved it. The replacement tenants love it too.

  49. JJ says:

    Will Smith once said Parents Just Don’t Understand. Word to the Motha

    Anon E. Moose says:
    June 26, 2012 at 10:32 am

    Pain [46];

    I’m remembering a recent discussion about the obstacles to a partent actaully getting involved with helping teach their kids (unorthodox cirricula, teaching methods, etc.). The idea is that the parents aren’t SUPPOSED to get involved — if the parents got involved, then who would be the teachers’ go-to scapegoat? It couldn’t possibly be the teachers’ fault!

  50. Juice Box says:

    Condo – Abbot districts get more because they have more staff. As far as the parents involvment I used to live right next to an Abbott middle school in Hoboken and the parents were involved, for example every morning one caring parent would walk her kid to school and share a nice cigarette or two with her kid before she kissed him and sent him off to school. Most parents in the burbs don’t do that when they get to middle school, they don’t walk them there and they don’t even kiss em goodbye.

  51. Painhrtz - Oooh a Donut! says:

    Juice but the good ones will throw them a few smokes ; )

    moose knowing the amount of teachers that I do thanks to my wife I totally get where this statement comes from. Some of them I wouldn’t trust with a deceased parrot let alone a child. On the other hand hearing the ridiculous edicts, mandates and politics that goes on in local school districts from them has convinced both my wife and I that maybe we should home school the twins. How much worse could we possibly be than them?

  52. Libtard in Union says:


    I used to rent a brownstone in Jersey City in the mid 90s. The family next door was section 8. Every day, when I left for work, their youngest kid (had to be 3 or four) was out on the stoop causing havoc. His name was Bebo. The kid really only new three words of english. They were, “Have a quarter?” He also called our piano “a pinano”. We actually dubbed our apartment the Pinano Republic. Well I asked his folks why Bebo wasn’t in the free full-day head start program. They even pick the kids up and drop them off right at the door. Both parents didn’t work so it really was a no-brainer. What he said to me was shocking. He said, “I didn’t graduate and look how well I’m doing.” That was the first time in my life that I realized why throwing money at urban kids or families was a problem. At the time, the attendance rate at the main JC high school (Dickerson?) was under 60%. No amount of money was going to change things there. I moved out a couple of years later when Bebo burned his house down playing with matches and ignited his mattress. When I asked the family if they’d be OK, they said, “We’re getting a brand new apartment!” Sure enough, I drove by about a year later and Bebo was back out on the porch of their beautifully remodeled apartment. The moral of the story here is that handouts never ever work with able-bodied potential workers. Now if you want to compensate low paid workers through workfare, I’m absolutely for it. Those people will be paying taxes and contributing to society (albeit flipping my burger). But to give someone a home and a salary for breathing? All you are doing is exacerbating the problem.

  53. Libtard in Union says:

    Pain…problem with home schooling is that your kids will not be properly socialized. Even if the mandates are schitty, they still have music and art and a real playground. As home schooling gains in popularity, so does the population of social retards who can quote Shakespeare, but could never succeed in with lab partners in college-level science classes, or worse yet, in the ‘real’ professional world.

  54. Painhrtz - Oooh a Donut! says:

    Stu and that is why you are the only sane liberal I have ever had the pleasure to converse with by the way how are the power skating lessons going?

  55. Juice Box says:

    Pain – Hoboken is ground zero for Education reform in NJ, it is an Abbott District and is now on it’s way to having over 25% of the students attend Charter Schools. Naturally the School Board, Superintendent and teachers don’t want the Charter Schools, since less students means less $$ and control for them. The wacist cry has gone out over and over calling it segregation. The reality however is quite different since Abbott is run by a lottery system and it it is actually more diverse than people will admit, only real difference is if you kid is a failure your kid is out and that enrages the far left in town.

  56. Libtard in Union says:

    Pain…Gator Jr. is doing well. He’s in hockey camp all week and is loving it. 4 hours a day on the ice…I don’t know how these kids do it.

  57. The Original NJ Expat says:

    Seconding Stu on not home schooling, for the same reason, socializing your kids. I think it’s a thought that we bourgeois elite all consider these days when our kids are very young and then realize later, as we observe them develop playground skills with other kids, that it would be a mistake.

  58. chicagofinance says:

    Painhrtz – Oooh a Donut! says:
    June 26, 2012 at 10:23 am
    condo – but it is racist if you state the reasons. One set of schools has parents who are involved, interested and care about their kids future. The other have been on the government teet, their kids will be on the government teet, unstable homes, no value in education or even being functional members of society.

    Liberals measure the success of their ideas based on the grandness of their intentions not the actual results.

    Money is never going to fix the broken culture that causes these kids not to be successful students. Unfortunately for all of us, nobody elected has the backbone to actually state it.

    PAIN: check this out…..

    High school students were thrown out the September 11 Memorial site in New York after tossing garbage and baseballs into the reflecting pools.

    The students, from JHS 292 in East New York, hurled several items including plastic soda bottles and baseballs into the memorial pools, reported.

    The NYPD launched an investigation after one junior high student was caught trying to bring ammunition through a metal detector.

    Schools Chancellor Dennis Walcott said it was not clear why the student had bullets.

  59. JJ says:

    people who home school are usually religious nuts then they send them off to some brain washing “christian college like “Bob Jones” University where they graduate to take a job at another zealots kooky business and preach all day while earning peanuts.

    I would not hire one of those nuts. Only bright side is they will all burn in hell

  60. Juice Box says:

    re: # 52 – Tard – re: Bebo and his three words of English. My dad used to comment on how their families have been here five generations and still could not speak or write English fluently, he could just never understand it. You pretty much answered it, they don’t avail themselves of the services like free Pre-K, and they treat the Bebos of the world like babies way too long, way past the critical learning years and Bebo enters school with a lifetime disadvantage.

  61. Fast Eddie says:

    Lib [52],

    It’s Dickinson HS and it looks like the State Penitentiary.

  62. Painhrtz - Oooh a Donut! says:

    I know about the whole socialization part that is the one roadblock to going that route for us. We were thinking supplemental education in the summers when they get old enough. Learn a language then at the end of the summer go on a vacation top a place that speaks it. Weird crap like that. Maybe some summer reading. i refuse to not let them have childhoods though so there will be lots of fun stuff mixed in.

    Chi fi – duh the other kids had the gun parts and it was to be assembled when they were inside. Have to practice getting stuff by the school metal detectors.

    Stu – neither do I, some of the guys I play with bring their kids to skate with us after two hours I’m spent. those kids are just getting warmed up.

  63. Fast Eddie aka Bebo says:

    I just changed the name of my dog to Bebo. Here, Bebo! Fetch! Arf! Arf! LOL!!!

  64. Juice Box says:

    re #61 – Yup Dickinson HS, the one on the hill as you are approaching the Holland tunnel on Route 78. They managed to fix and clean the entire exterior of building removing all graffiti a few years ago. The graffiti was back before the next semester was over. It is really one of the few places that has allot of graffiti like it was all over NY back in the 1970s.

  65. Anon E. Moose says:

    Juice [55];

    The wacist cry has gone out over and over…

    R.acism is like ketchup. It can be put on anything. –T. Sowell

  66. Fast Eddie says:

    BTW, the democrats need the Abbott districts. Dependency is the foundation of their existence. It’s the human form of money laundering. They need the prop to execute the ruse.

  67. Libtard in Union says:

    Fast Eddie,

    Just as the Republicans need the old people and the religious nuts. It’s all the same.

  68. Fast Eddie says:


    I grew up about 10 blocks north of Dickinson. At the time, it was 50-50 on the demographics scale. Now? It looks like Mogadishu.

  69. Fast Eddie says:


    I’m nuts but not old yet nor am I using the rosary beads on a daily basis! :)

  70. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [29] AG,

    One of my more hare-brained ideas was for a group of close friends (can’t be family) to get together and form an LLC, then contribute their homes to the LLC in return for membership shares based on appraised value when contributed. There must be at least 11, and preferably more, members.

    Then, members rent their former homes from the LLC: Rent is roughly correlated to value and is net of taxes (not sure if renters that pay re taxes can deduct but think that they can). The LLC never actually makes any money because of depreciation, upkeep expenses, taxes, etc. Members that move are cashed out and new ones admitted.

    The LLC should throw off losses for members to use on their taxes, and if the properties sell for less than value, the member takes a loss on their membership units. This is advantageous because losses on primary residences cannot be used to offset cap gains or income.

    Downside is that house could actually appreciate, thus creating capital gain if member not “cashed out” by taking LLC property in exchange for units. I seem to recall IRS is hip to this and would require time of transfer value be used. Other downsides are costs, logistics, and just plain dealing with the herding-cats problem.

    Like I said, it was kinda hare-brained.

  71. Anon E. Moose says:

    Pain [62];

    If I was seriously considering home schooling my house-hunting process would have been very different. I trade property taxes for private tuition. Sellers are doing the same (“Congratulations Graduate!” sign right next to “House for Sale”).

  72. Libtard in Union says:

    “I grew up about 10 blocks north of Dickinson.”

    How do you like that ice rink they built there over by Persing Field? What an utter waste of tax dollars.

  73. chicagofinance says:

    12 Reasons College Costs Keep Rising
    By RICHARD VEDDER, Minding the Campus June 18, 2012

    University presidents and economists like David Feldman and Robert Archibald often cite the Baumol Effect (named after a Princeton economist) as a key reason college costs keep rising. They argue that higher education is a service industry where it is inherently difficult to raise productivity by substituting machines for humans. Teaching is like theater: it takes as many actors today to produce King Lear as it did when Shakespeare wrote it 400 years ago. While there is some truth to the argument, in reality technology does allow a single teacher to reach ever bigger audiences (using everything from microphones to streaming video). Moreover, a majority of college costs today are not for instruction –the number of administrators, broadly defined, often exceeds the number of faculty.

    The second explanation comes from former Education Secretary Bill Bennett: rapidly expanding federal student financial assistance programs have pushed up college prices, so the gains from student aid accrue less to students than to the colleges themselves, financing an academic arms race. Recent studies support the Bennett Hypothesis. Student aid has fueled the demand for higher education. In the market economy, increased demand for a product made by one company (say the iPhone) quickly spurs competition (other smart phones), so prices do not rise. That fails to happen in higher education, as many providers restrict supply to enhance prestige. Harvard has an Admissions Committee, McDonald’s does not.

    Here are 12 expressions that help explain the college cost explosion:

    1. Third party payments. When someone other than the consumer is paying some of the bills, the customer is not very sensitive to prices. Health care prices have soared for that reason, and it is contributing to the college price explosion as well.

    2. Lack of information. For markets to work effectively, buyers and sellers need lots of information. Yet colleges (in the information business) and their customers, are remarkably ignorant about key aspects of higher education. Do seniors know more or think better than freshmen? Does the senior year add as much value to a student’s knowledge, sense of right or wrong, leadership or critical thinking skills, etc., as the sophomore year? How much do students apply themselves? Do they like their school? What do they earn five years after graduation? Does a sociology degree have the same vocational relevance as a degree in accounting or mechanical engineering? Answers to these and many other questions would help students and academic administrators make intelligent resource allocation decisions – yet no answers are available.

    3. Most higher education is not for profit. While most academics view that as a great virtue, I don’t. The lack of a profit motive reduces incentives to cut costs, improve product quality, and other things necessary to make profits and enhance wealth in the private market economy.

    4. Closely related is the term bottom line. General Motors and Wal-Mart have well defined bottom lines –the stock price and profits. What is the bottom line for Harvard or Slippery Rock State? Who knows? How can you achieve goals if you don’t know, in a well defined sense, what they are? How can you get “more productive” when you cannot even measure your outputs well?

    5. Resource rigidities are a problem. Tenure makes it hard to move faculty resources from areas of low demand to those of higher demand. Faculty with lifetime appointments can fight innovation and change with relatively few adverse consequences, stifling innovation. Universities own large buildings that are often underutilized, particularly after changing consumer demand renders some of them obsolete.

    6. There are problems with barriers to entry and restrictions on competition. Both accreditation agencies and regulators make it difficult for small but innovative new institutions to begin. For example, proposals to require “state authorization” of on-line instruction in every state in which an institution operates forces smaller on-line companies out of the market in some states.

    7. The public nature of support and control of schools containing most students means that higher education is now, in some sense, politicized. Universities have to conform to rules in order to get government grants or allow students to receive student loans, and these rules do not always make sense, having a “one size fits all” dimension to them.

    8. Universities try to charge what the traffic will bear, engaging in massive price discrimination, favoring some students (poorer ones, extremely bright ones, students of color) more than others (more affluent, less bright kids, white students.)

    9. Universities engage in rent-seeking – receiving more payments than necessary to provide services. Workers sometimes receive inflated salaries not justified by market conditions or merit. Salaries are higher for those who get research grants for time off from teaching to do research, compared with those who continue to teach full loads.

    10. Many schools, especially large research universities engage in massive cross-subsidization, showering vast resources on some activities, such as graduate education, while providing little for, say, undergraduate instruction. Lower teaching loads to promote research are subsidized by tuition fees ostensibly paid to provide for student instruction. This increases tuition sticker prices.

    11. Ownership of universities is murky. Many groups think they own “their” school –the faculty, the trustees (the legal owners usually), the alumni, state government officials, sometimes even students. This leads to turf wars and unproductive wastes of resources; for example, the chemistry department might forbid others from using “their” building, even though it might be wiser to use some of the space for other needs.

    12. There are often massive governance problems. Who runs the schools? There are several who claim that right, leading to murky decision-making, often by committees (“shared governance”) of a non-innovative nature to appease all powerful claimants.

    What to do? The key to change is found in three “I” words – information, incentives, and innovation. Information is key to making intelligent decision-making, yet often the incentives are lacking to do the cost-cutting, innovative things necessary. If good information and incentive systems are in place, innovation will take place automatically: necessity is the mother of invention.

    This piece originally ran on Minding the Campus.

    Richard Vedder directs the Center for College Affordability and Productivity, teaches economics at Ohio University, and is adjunct scholar at the American Enterprise Institute. He is the author of Going Broke by Degree.

  74. Libtard in Union says:

    Same with the ice rink in Newark. You know, the Prudential Center.

  75. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [48] stu,

    wow, that brings back memories. That’s the stove we had in my house growing up.

  76. Libtard in Union says:


    For $1995 a month plus utilities, you can have that stove again! :P

  77. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    I will be out of touch (no jokes please) for a few days whilst I travel to Seattle on govvie bidness. That should please caljn. Try not to kill each other, and don’t let Meat have any sharp objects.

  78. JJ says:

    chicagofinance I am still in mourning over my TRUPs, however I have an actionable trading idea for you. I love that word.

    USD Hartford Financial Services Group Inc
    It is a pref stock trading near 52 week low with a yield of 9.95%. I know we have an activist shareholder in mix and annuity sales are down. But with almost a 10% yield and a pref instead of common you have a lot of reward vs. risk.

    What do you think?

  79. Juice Box says:

    re # 68 – Eddie latest batch of immigrants north of there in Jersey City up to 495 in Union City seem to all be Tlaxcalan Amerindian from Mexico and Quechuas from Peru. Lots and lots of very short people. Once you put them on an american diet they become short and rotund.

  80. Richard says:

    JJ have you looked at the Prefs of stronger European banks eg DUA, ISF. They’re relatively safe and yield is good.

    Also RBS is a bit more of a gamble – some have divs suspended, but its a government owned, well capitalized bank so probably all will pay next year. RBS-E is susupended, is trading half of par.

  81. Painhrtz - Oooh a Donut! says:

    Nom bring an umbrella love that town hate all the rain

    juice we used to call them mini buffalos all round up top with short spindly legs.

  82. JJ says:

    Richard says:
    June 26, 2012 at 12:33 pm

    JJ have you looked at the Prefs of stronger European banks eg DUA, ISF. They’re relatively safe and yield is good.

    Also RBS is a bit more of a gamble – some have divs suspended, but its a government owned, well capitalized bank so probably all will pay next year. RBS-E is susupended, is trading half of par.
    thx, will start to research.

  83. young buck says:

    With No Vote, Taxpayers Stuck With Tab on Bonds

    Published: June 25, 2012

    Surprised local taxpayers from Stockton, Calif., to Scranton, Pa., are finding themselves obligated for parking garages, hockey arenas and other enterprises that can no longer pay their debts.

    Officials have signed them up unknowingly to backstop the bonds of independent authorities, the special bodies of government that run projects like toll roads and power plants.

    The practice, meant to save governments money, has been gaining popularity without attracting much notice, and is creating problems for a small but growing number of cities.

    Data from Thomson Reuters suggests that local taxpayers are backing so-called enterprise debt at five times the rate they did 10 years ago. The resulting municipal bonds are sometimes called “double barreled,” because they are backed by both the future revenue of a project and some sort of taxpayer backstop. The exact wording and mechanics can vary.

    With many cities now preoccupied with other crushing costs — pension obligations, retiree health care, accumulated unpaid bills — a sudden call to honor a long-forgotten bond guarantee can be a bolt from the blue, precipitating a crisis. The obligations mostly lurk in the dark. State laws requiring voter pre-approval of bonds don’t generally apply to guarantees. Local governments typically don’t include them in their own financial statements or set aside reserves to honor them.

    In a number of communities, especially in New Jersey, Michigan and Washington State, local officials have recently scrambled to work out fiscal emergencies caused by guarantees and similar promises. Hoboken dodged a bullet last year, for instance, when a buyer was found for a bankrupt hospital whose debt the city had guaranteed. Buena Vista, Va., narrowly missed a creditor foreclosure of its city hall and police building, after a park authority failed to repay the bonds for a golf course.

    Moody’s Investors Service issued a report this year on taxpayer bond guarantees in New Jersey, after noticing a big upswing there since 2008. The firm is making a broad review of places that it rated in the past, where circumstances may now be changed. In New Jersey, it said, some cities and counties had evidently discovered that by working with independent authorities, they could bypass legal limits on their own indebtedness.

    Moody’s cut several communities’ own credit ratings to junk, briefly making New Jersey the nation’s leader in junk-rated municipalities. (Now Michigan has that distinction.) The gritty town of Harrison, just across the Passaic River from Newark, had its rating cut a rare eight notches in a single year, when it couldn’t honor a promise to pay debts connected with construction of the Red Bull soccer stadium.

    Harrison had to borrow from Hudson County to get through the crisis, but that in turn raised doubts about whether the county’s taxpayers would honor their guarantee of yet another project’s debts — $85 million for a faltering waste-disposal system.

  84. Bebo says:

    Me Bebo. Me take your order now.

  85. Bebo says:

    Me Bebo. Me went to Dickinson & penitentiary. Penitentiary nicer. Better chicken fingers.

  86. Libtard in Union says:

    That guy looks like him. I just emailed him to ask if he lived on 6th Street. Will let you all know if he responds. His timeline reveals that his english hasn’t improved much since he was 4.

  87. Libtard in Union says:

    Here’s an example:


  88. Libtard in Union says:

    “Jacob Sebastiano Reyes better known as Dj Bebo was born in Jersey City, New Jersey and raised in Bronx, New York.
    At the age of 7 he moved to the Bronx. Since he can remember he always had a passion for Music.
    Through out his years he has met many people who haved helped him get where he stands today.
    Dj Bebo is looking into pursuing this career, He is a Full-Time Dj and the best.
    The best thing about Dj Bebo is he is open minded for Music and his Diverse Music selection. Dj Bebo plays the right music for the right occasion.”

    Intresting in Bookings contact me

    Saturday & Sunday Office is Closed.

  89. Juice Box says:

    Asbury park is now “Classy”

    ASBURY PARK — If you step off the beach in Asbury Park and slide into a bar wearing a Speedo or string bikini, you’re technically breaking the law. And a former city councilwoman is trying to make sure you know it.

    For decades, there has been a little-known ordinance in the Monmouth County city banning bathing suits on the boardwalk. “No person clad in bathing attire shall be on the boardwalk or the public walks adjacent thereto,” it reads.

    Louise Murray, chairwoman of the local Republican party, said she no longer sees the law enforced and is worried skimpy attire at the boardwalk’s bars and restaurants is threatening to wipe away Asbury Park’s image as a “classy” Jersey Shore town. So she brought the issue to the city council and lobbied members to crack down on offenders.

  90. The Original NJ Expat says:

    Me Bebo,
    Me play joke,
    Me put pee-pee in your Coke.

  91. JJ says:

    Bebo likes to play the roof the roof the roof is on fire

  92. Painhrtz - Oooh a Donut! says:

    You stay classy Asbury Park

    Lib maybe your pinano inspired him

  93. Anon E. Moose says:

    Scored tix to Chelsea v. PSG at Yankee Stadium. Busy weekend, but I might go. Contemplating whether I should wear Blue, Red, or pinstipes.

  94. BklynHawk says:

    I thought this might appeal to the humor of commenters here…
    Police: Teaneck man pulled gun on neighbor for farting

    TEANECK — An elderly man was arrested Monday night after a neighbor’s fart allegedly drove him to threaten him with a gun, police said.

    Daniel Collins, 72, had been involved in an ongoing dispute with the unidentified neighbor for some time, according to Det. Lt. Andrew McGurr. The neighbor told officers that Collins pointed a revolver at him in the vestibule of their apartment building at 694 Cedar Lane at around 9:25 p.m.

  95. The Original NJ Expat says:

    [96] From the headline I first assumed the passer of gas was sitting on his own porch upwind. My second though was that the properties probably don’t have much frontage.

    JJ – Any methane wars in your ‘hood?

  96. Bagholder Brian says:

    96 –
    My wife and family have threatened me with violence after a night of drinking cheap light beer.

  97. Bagholder Brian says:
  98. seif says:

    We get it, Grandpa, You’re Hip to Springsteen

    “…but it is so much sillier when khaki’d old Ivy League grad suburban Maryland mega-mansion-owners get real about their magical, personal connection to a man whose career is in part a celebration of the exact opposite of them.”

  99. The Original NJ Expat says:

    [99] And Obama did his economic magic all with no budget. He’s a genius.

  100. Anon E. Moose says:

    Brian [99];

    The story is Democrats rank higher than Republicans according to a made-up indicator? Slow news day?

    I think the more salient conclusion drawn from other studies is that divided government is better for the economy (Exhibit A: GWB 43, who’s “Compassionate Conservatism” hampered him finding the veto pen with his own party controlling Congress; Exhibit B: 111th Congress (’09-’10) w/ His O-ness at 1600 Penn). Reagan battled Tip O’Neil, and Clinton had Newt in the Speaker’s office.

  101. Bebo says:

    Me Bebo. I’m gone git you mofos.

  102. AG says:

    Eric Holder is one ugly SOB. How did a brother get a nose like that? The cheese d_ck mustache isn’t doing a dam thing to hide it either.

  103. Anon E. Moose says:

    Wow, this is quick. They must be writing to recently mited bagholders with short memories.

    Underwater? Can’t Sell? Can’t Refi? UPGRADE!

    5 kitchen renovations under $25,000

  104. Shore Guy says:

    Everyone gets a pony, and a do-over, in Europe. While this might be nice, from the employees’ perspective, this is just nuts as a matter of policy and law:

    BRUSSELS — For most Europeans, almost nothing is more prized than their four to six weeks of guaranteed annual vacation leave. But it was not clear just how sacrosanct that time off was until Thursday, when Europe’s highest court ruled that workers who happened to get sick on vacation were legally entitled to take another vacation.

    “The purpose of entitlement to paid annual leave is to enable the worker to rest and enjoy a period of relaxation and leisure,” the Court of Justice of the European Union, based in Luxembourg, ruled in a case involving department store workers in Spain. “The purpose of entitlement to sick leave is different, since it enables a worker to recover from an illness that has caused him to be unfit for work.”


  105. JJ says:

    I worked at a place that was union back in the early 90s. The clerks were allowed per their contract to call in sick while on vacation. I had one or two staff do that. I thought it was funny. But in a way you take one weeks vacation and get food poisoning why not call in sick. Mgt was allowed to do it too, but nobody did it as our raises and bonuses were not guaranteed. Clerks in union raises and bonuses were manadatory, so you got away with what you got away with.

  106. NJGator says:

    Roche Nutley facility will be closed by end of next year…

  107. Painhrtz - Oooh a Donut! says:

    Gator not unexpected place has been on life support for years since the Genentech folks were driving the bus

  108. blackhat says:

    Hi my loved one! I want to say that this article is amazing, great written and come with almost all important infos. I would like to peer more posts like this .

  109. NJGator says:

    Pain (109) I know. But now there’s an official time frame for closure. There’s still a fair amount of people working there that will be out of work. My friend’s been waiting for her severance package for years.

  110. The Original NJ ExPat says:

    [108] That’s sad. My (yet to be) wife and I lived about 6 houses down Bloomfield Ave (the Nutley one) from the main entrance for a few years in the mid 90’s. I used to take the bus into NY from the corner right across the street. I had a first, then a 2nd interview for a job there and I was already planning on roller blading to work and being there in about 19 seconds, but didn’t get the offer. Oh well, I hope something good for the community comes of the property.

    Roche Nutley facility will be closed by end of next year…

  111. chicagofinance says:

    This column is specious and immature. To use the style of the author “We get it, Poser Hipster, You use profanity because you can’t persuade people with your arguments”……….what is wrong with you?

    seif says:
    June 26, 2012 at 3:39 pm
    We get it, Grandpa, You’re Hip to Springsteen

  112. Fast Eddie says:

    ChiFi [113],

    Launched in 1995, is one of the pioneering news and commentary sites on the web. In recent years, it has been eclipsed by larger and better financed sites such as The Atlantic and Washington Post (NYSE: WPO)-owned Slate. Of course, today there are thousands of websites that comment on the news each day. Some of these, like The Blaze, which is owned by Glenn Beck, are well funded.

    In a sign that Salon is very close to being shuttered, the company “lost” its CEO and CFO recently. Chief technology officer, Cynthia Jeffers, was put in charge. But Salon will need a great deal more than new management. At the end of the final quarter of 2011, Salon had $149,000 in the bank against short-term liabilities that included $12.7 million in loans. During the same quarter, Salon lost $997,000 on revenue of $1.03 million. Rumors are that John Warnock, the cofounder of Adobe Systems (NASDAQ: ADBE), and investment banker Bill Hambrecht fund the company. But as it falls apart at the seams, more money is unlikely to be forthcoming.

  113. freedy says:

    How many fast food joints can they get on that Nutley campus. Perhaps we could get
    a Hamburger College or something like that to retrain the work force .

  114. All Hype says:

    Dear All:

    I work for Roche and will be affected by the site closing. Not the worst thing in the world. I really feel for the admins, support staff and basic science. They will have an extremely hard time finding new jobs. My resume is already out and about. I will give you guys more details tomorrow about the reasons why the place is closing.

    Have a good night everyone!
    All Hype

  115. caljn says:

    77 Comrade

    I’m honored, though you evidently mis-interpreted my post of yesterday…I enjoy the lively albeit one sided discussions on this blog. However, your multiple posts of your pending departure from the great Garden State grow tiresome. Some of us are quite happy here. Some of us even left 30 years ago then came back when realizing you cannot erase where your from and the tug from home never quite stops.
    If you wish to leave and write about, go ahead once, maybe twice. Then stop and move on to other topics.
    Interesting how many ex New Jerseyans read and post here. They were so happy to go but can’t quite cut the cord…

  116. Fabius Maximus says:

    #102 Moose

    “Exhibit B: 111th Congress (’09-’10)”
    That would be the one with the Fillibuster and 40 + Joe Liberman

  117. Nutley should put the bulldozers to Roche once it closes. It will give the people operating them practice for all the houses they will end up bulldozing.

  118. Bebo says:

    Me Bebo. Me want to tear down buildings.

  119. njescapee says:

    90% of Boomers Help Support Adult Children

    To start, more than nine out of 10 baby boomers – 95% of men and 92% of women – say they have provided financial support to their adult children. But boomer fathers appear to be more likely than boomer mothers to write a check

  120. Anon E. Moose says:

    FABulous [118];

    That would be the one with the Fillibuster and 40 + Joe Liberman

    WAHH! We were in charge but it was the Rethuglicans Fault! WAHH! Re-elect Obama because its STILL all Bush’s fault!

  121. The Original NJ ExPat says:

    [117] caljn – Maybe you should start a new blog, seems to be an available domain name. Call out for a “Switch hands!” if it becomes tiresome.

  122. Shore Guy says:


    Here is your lede for Wednesday:

    Insight: Evidence suggests anti-foreclosure laws may backfire

    (Reuters) – State and federal laws enacted to protect homeowners from eviction in the wake of the 2008 housing crash may be extending the slump, according to a growing number of economists and industry experts.

    Foreclosures have all but ground to a halt in Nevada, which passed one of the stiffest borrower-protection laws in the country last year. Yet the housing market is further than ever from recovery, local real estate agents say, with a lack of inventory feeding a “mini-bubble” in prices that few believe is sustainable.

    A recent U.S. Federal Reserve study found that in states requiring a judicial review for foreclosure, delays associated with the process had no measurable long-term benefits and often prolonged the problems with the housing market.

    Data from housing market researchers points to similar conclusions.

    “Many state laws that stretch out the period for legitimate foreclosures result in no added benefit for the homeowner and produce harm to the housing finance system and to neighborhoods,” said Alfred Pollard, general counsel to the Federal Housing Finance Agency, at a House of Representatives oversight hearing in March.

    Some people who have been able to stay in their homes despite failing to pay their mortgages may disagree, but it may be a different matter for the neighborhoods where they live.

    An overhang of properties that the banks want to foreclose, but have not dared to, not only can hold back a sustainable recovery in prices but also might encourage blight as the defaulting borrower has less incentive to keep the property in good condition.


  123. Jill says:

    Hype #116: What area of research are you in?

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