Friday Open Discussion and Legal Review

From Bloomberg:

Eminent Domain Is Bad Ploy for Underwater Mortgages

Officials in San Bernardino County, California, believe they have figured out a clever way to solve the county’s, and possibly the nation’s, housing problems.

Detailed by a Cornell University professor, and pitched by influential San Francisco investors who stand to make a fortune from it, this new idea is based on one of the oldest concepts: the taking of other people’s property.

County officials, joined by the cities of Ontario and Fontana, are considering using an expansive interpretation of eminent domain — typically used to acquire real property to build public works — to seize the mortgages, not the real property, of those homeowners who owe more than their homes are worth.

The funds would be provided by private investors, who would pay the holders of the mortgages “fair market value” and then write new ones for the homeowners based on much lower principal amounts, reflecting the new depressed values of the homes. The firm behind this complex plan, Mortgage Resolution Partners, may be in the running to acquire vast numbers of mortgages at discounted rates. Local officials would have, theoretically, solved their local housing problems. Homeowners would stay in their homes and have much lower mortgages.

Advocates tout it as a win-win solution, but the holders of the mortgages must give up their assets and accept whatever value the governmental authority assigns to their notes.

The “fair market value” probably wouldn’t be based on an expected sales price of the home, but on a wholesale value that would be at least 20 percent lower than that, said Mark Dowling, the chief executive officer of the Inland Valleys Association of Realtors. (The value would probably be based on the fair market value of the mortgage — the home price minus many transaction costs — and thus far lower than the fair market value of the home itself.)

There would surely be unintended consequences. Grabbing private mortgages could lead to a widespread reluctance by private firms to lend money in the county — or at least an increase in the cost of lending in that area. That would be a particular problem given that an obstacle to a revived housing market, especially in low-income, high-unemployment areas, is the inability of homebuyers to qualify for mortgages.

As Gideon Kanner, professor emeritus at Loyola Law School, argues, “If you make a reduction in loan balance available, whether by eminent domain or otherwise, these people will be provided with a powerful incentive to stop making payments on their mortgages, hoping to get bailed out by the government.”

However it shakes out, the plan would create perverse incentives. Mainly, it seems like a way for big players to muscle out the smaller investors who now are competing for short sales and foreclosures.

This entry was posted in Economics, Foreclosures, Housing Recovery, Mortgages, Politics. Bookmark the permalink.

204 Responses to Friday Open Discussion and Legal Review

  1. Mike says:

    Good Morning New Jersey

  2. grim says:


    ‘Fake farmers’ bill OK’d by state Senate

    Large landowners who are not active farmers would lose the ability to take advantage of a significant break in property taxes under a bill passed by the state Senate on Monday.

    The measure was prompted by an Asbury Park Press investigation into the state’s farmland assessment program. The bill would boost the threshold of sales needed to qualify for the program from $500 to $1,000. Participants in the program would need to submit evidence to the state Department of Agriculture and be subject to review every three years.

    The bill also demands that tax assessors take training in farmland assessment policies as a condition of their licenses.

    “In this bill, the State Board of Agriculture and the Division of Taxation will issue guidelines to help tax assessors to define legitimate farming activity that qualifies for the assessment,” said Sen. Jennifer Beck, R-Monmouth. “And those participating in the program will have to submit evidence of agricultural sales and income to their tax assessor.”

    An Asbury Park Press probe showed the program suffered from a lack of oversight and inspection. The 2010 report also showed there was minimal penalty for violating the provisions of the law. The investigation found that local governments were losing out on as much as $82 million in property tax revenue because of the way the law is structured.

    Under Sweeney’s and Beck’s bill, those who improperly take advantage of the program face a $5,000 fine in addition to repayment of back taxes.

    “This bill modernizes the law to better ensure that only those who actively work the land receive the 98 percent property tax break on their property,” Beck said. “I strongly urge my colleagues in the state Assembly move this legislation and send it to the governor’s desk.”

  3. Fast Eddie says:

    Here’s a zillion dollar question for the board: You lose your job today. Your employer will give cover your medical insurance for the next 60 days and then you and the family are on your own.

    Question: Where in the Peoples Republic of NJ do you find medical coverage that’s not going to financially kill you but give your family at least some coverage from catastrophe?

  4. grim says:

    Switch coverage over to your spouse’s employer?

  5. Fast Eddie says:


    Let’s assume the spouse doesn’t work and/or doesn’t have coverage.

  6. grim says:

    I guess I’d be hoping 2014 gets here quicker.

  7. Fast Eddie says:


    You mean in 2014, there’s going to be an affordable alternative in NJ?

  8. Fast Eddie says:

    freedy [7],

    They’re telling us what we already know.

  9. grim says:

    What’s the option today? About $1,500/mo. minimum for family coverage?

  10. Fabius Maximus says:

    #5 Fast Eddie

    “Welcome to Walmart, how may I help you.” Part of the reason people work there and the likes of Home Depot is that you can work part time and qualify for their medical plan. Granted you are writing a check as your wages may not match the premium. HD has lots of contractors wives working. As hubby is self employed, its the cheapest way to cover the family.

    NJ, cheapest family policy I found was $800/month

  11. Essex says:

    7. Wiping Justice Robert’s man juice from his face.

  12. Fabius Maximus says:

    This is a good thing for NJ. The state can move all the state workers into the Federal exchanges and people here can stop b1tching that public sector bene’s are better.


  13. funnelcloud says:

    Morning NJ Good morning Mike
    Grim #11 Another option
    Hit a cop, politician, or commit a petty crime and go to jail, Medical is covered in addition 3 hots and a cot, Its going to be the only option for alot of seriously ill people in the future.

  14. Anyone still think the gubmint has not declared open war on us?

    They won’t start until they’ve stripped every penny of wealth from each and every one of us.

  15. Bagholder Brian says:

    Man, it’s already turning into around here. I guess it’s just too big an issue to ignore.

    So, I was listening to the radio this morning, and somebody brought up a good point, now that the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act’s individual mandate is actually a “tax”, the Senate could actually repeal the individual mandate with a simple majority (51 votes) rather than 2/3 majority. This puts the ability to cripple the act and repeal the individual mandate within reach…..

    The Republican recipe for repeal

    Maybe Roberts knew what he was doing?

  16. grim says:

    We are already screwed.

    Last year my health insurance no longer allowed my wife to stay on my policy, since she was eligible for coverage at work (Working spouse provisions, if you don’t have one today, you’ll have it tomorrow). So instead of being able to stay in the Associate + Spouse option, we needed to both go into the individual coverage.

    Wallet $200 lighter per month (thanks Obama!)

    Now, if I’ve got a kid on the way, it means that I’ve got to go all the way up into the Family plan to get coverage for the kid (surprisingly, there is no “Associate + 1” option). So now I’ve got to pay the highest premium rate for “Family”, but that still doesn’t include my spouse.

    Wallet lighter by another $200+ a month (thanks Obama!)

    Essentially paying close to $5,000 more a year for exactly the same coverage I’d have gotten a year ago.

    And you guys are pissed off about property taxes?

  17. Fast Eddie says:

    Fabius [12],

    I’m sure Walmart and HD have a “few” applications in the pile. Either way, major sacrifice needed just to have a blanket.

  18. Cue Mike Krieger’s usual Friday dose of truth:

    “Nothing exemplifies the ghetto status of the U.S. economy more than the success of Wal-Mart in the face of the ongoing destruction of what was once a vibrant and strong middle class. In case you missed it, Marion Nestle, Professor in the Department of Nutrition, Food Studies, and Public Health at NYU, came out with some interesting tidbits regarding the food stamp program. One of them is extraordinarily disturbing. She shows that Wal-Mart’s gets as much as 25% to 40% of revenue at some stores from food stamp dollars. This says it all folks. Food stamps are or course the perfect business for Wal-Mart and JP Morgan, which as I pointed out previously makes a lot of money running the program and keeping the populace in perpetual serfdom. Meanwhile, guess what another of the best performing stocks this year is? Corrections Corp of America, ticker CXW, up 41% YTD! Guess what they do? Yep, you guessed it. They lock up the serfs that get out of line.”

  19. Fast Eddie says:


    Knock! Knock! Hey! Did you take your meds today?

  20. Fast Eddie says:

    Meat [22],

    It’s a ruse of perfection, isn’t it? :)

  21. Bagholder Brian says:

    Hey, where’s the guy who used to post stuff like this:

    Although our friend writes with the subtlety of a flying mallet, he’s probably one of many recent homebuyers who has realized that- despite the nonstop predictions of disaster around here- the sun keeps coming up every morning.

    He is also dead-on in his assessment of the plethora of arbitrage and relentless minutiae-crunching within many threads here. It’s like a pack of vultures picking at a dead rabbit…not much meat there. And what a way to assess owner-occupied RE! Call me stuck in the ’50s, but I contend “home” is supposed to be about family, comfort and good times. The market goes sour? Stay in your home thru the down cycle. Nobody just wakes up one day and suddenly realizes NJ is expensive. And, even though there are thousands of the proverbial “500K POS Capes” out there, there are affordable, nice places to live all over NJ…if one is willing to compromise just a tad. RE is a game of compromise, because not even millionaires can “have it all”…there’s always a tradeoff among the three factors of price, location and amenities of homes buyers consider (I contend the best anyone can do is get 2 out of 3 of those factors…the third factor will be out of the buyer’s control and must be accepted). No matter how bad things get in NJ, a 450K 4 BR Colonial in a top school district on the Midtown Direct line ain’t in the cards. Sorry; location DOES matter.

    I have tried to grasp the merit in the idea of renting, hoarding cash and waiting for the big market crash in order to swoop in and obtain maximum value. However, I can’t help but think that the element of putting your life on hold that this strategy requires also has significant costs. Renting- in and of itself- implies transience, impermanence and absence of commitment (please don’t read this as an accusation of renters being shiftless drones who have 400 FICO scores, leased Escalades and closets full of $300 jeans). You can be in a beautiful place…great landlord…below-market rent…but you are essentially “on hold”.

    And on hold for what? It seems that for many here, the only x-factor left is when to call the bottom of the market. All but the blind agree it’s down; the only question is how much further it will fall. 5%? 10%? 20%? Is the benefit of catching the absolute bottom worth the wait and uncertainty? And, what if the bottom is in…and you’re missing it now? Are you so invested in the “big crash” theory that you can’t pull the trigger in a rising tide?

    Cost/benefit analysis requires an evenhanded assessment of both sides of a proposition. I, for one, see a lot of attention here to the cost side…while the benefit side of the ledger gets lip service (or worse). This blog doesn’t get the attention that comes its way because homeownership isn’t highly desired and valuable.

  22. Bagholder Brian says:

    Krauthammer: Roberts opinion shows ‘ultimate finesse’
    By ALEXANDER BURNS | 6/29/12 6:25 AM EDT

    With the important stipulation that Chief Justice John Roberts’s opinion is “not how I would have ruled,” conservative opinion leader Charles Krauthammer pens a fairly sympathetic take on the Court’s Obamacare decision, casting Roberts as a jurist caught between his legal principles and the need to protect the Supreme Court from Bush v. Gore-level backlash:

    National health care has been a liberal dream for a hundred years. It is clearly the most significant piece of social legislation in decades. Roberts’s concern was that the court do everything it could to avoid being seen, rightly or wrongly, as high-handedly overturning sweeping legislation passed by both houses of Congress and signed by the president.

    How to reconcile the two imperatives — one philosophical and the other institutional? Assign yourself the task of writing the majority opinion. Find the ultimate finesse that manages to uphold the law, but only on the most narrow of grounds — interpreting the individual mandate as merely a tax, something generally within the power of Congress.

    Result? The law stands, thus obviating any charge that a partisan court overturned duly passed legislation. And yet at the same time the commerce clause is reined in. By denying that it could justify the imposition of an individual mandate, Roberts draws the line against the inexorable decades-old expansion of congressional power under the commerce clause fig leaf.

    Law upheld, Supreme Court’s reputation for neutrality maintained. Commerce clause contained, constitutional principle of enumerated powers reaffirmed.

    There’s a message in Roberts’s decision for proponents of health care repeal, Krauthammer concludes: “Your job, not mine. I won’t make it easy for you.” And despite the ire directed at Roberts in some quarters, that does seem to be the message most Republicans heard out of the Court yesterday.

  23. JJ says:

    Some guys here live in their own little world. Last night I was down on Stone Street, place was packed, every bar restaurant was mobbed people were ordering like there was no tommorrow. I did not see that at all in 2009. Then in Penn this morning, huge amount of young people all dressed in trendy beach ware, lining up at starbucks with bags for weekend to catch 7:49 am train to the Hamptons.

    Wow big recession.

  24. JJ says:

    Obamas wife is a stay at home mom, just have your wife stay home. My friend did that, he ordered his wife to quit a few weeks before the marriage. Liked coming home to a relaxed, tanned, in shape wife with dinner ready. Working women are grump and get a little sloppy and fat. Obama has your best interests at heart.

    grim says:
    June 29, 2012 at 7:44 am

    We are already screwed.

    Last year my health insurance no longer allowed my wife to stay on my policy, since she was eligible for coverage at work (Working spouse provisions, if you don’t have one today, you’ll have it tomorrow). So instead of being able to stay in the Associate + Spouse option, we needed to both go into the individual coverage.

  25. Fast Eddie says:

    Brian [26],

    After the dust settles, it’s a somewhat sound and logical explanation. It’s as reasonable an explanation as two conflicting sides could find. Let the people decide in November which direction is equitable and then deal with it.

  26. Mike says:

    Fabius 12 On that cheapest family policy for $800, were you allowed t get xrays & MRI’s?

  27. Fast Eddie says:

    Freedy, lol! I love this:

    Let’s review what we do know about the NAR:

    -In the 2000s, they overstated Existing Home Sales by 14%;
    -Their Housing Affordability Index is worthless;
    -They make absurd marketing claims (i.e., its always a good time to Buy or Sell a house).

  28. Shore Guy says:


    I think that $800/mo. plan allows one to have x-rays, the problem is they have to be done in a metal fabrication shop by a guy who usually works with a tig welder .

  29. Fast Eddie says:

    From ZeroHedge:

    Earlier, we presented a slightly more idealistic, slightly less gray, slightly less mathematically challenged version of the president talking to ABC’s George Stephanopolous on the topic of whether or not the Affordable Care Act should be treated as tax. Obama said “I absolutely reject that notion”.

    The Supreme Court, however, whether with a last minute change of heart by Chief Justice Roberts for whatever reasons, or not, disagreed in what ended up being a shocking hail mary effort, and essentially said that Obama’s entire spin campaign of Obamacare as ‘not a tax’ is wrong, in the process making Obamacare constitutional but also making it the largest tax increase in the history of the US. We are eagerly looking for the CBO’s scoring of how the ACA will impact the parabolic charts of projected future US deficit and debt.

    In the meantime, once again looking back in time, we present an even younger version of the president, all the way back in 2008, sharing his thoughts on the now so very crucial topic of mandates. To wit: “If a mandate was the solution, we could try that to solve homelessness by mandating everybody buy a house. The reason they don’t have a house is they don’t have the money.” He is right. Hopefully, this rather insightful allegory into cause and effect from 4 years ago is not a preamble into what the SCOTUS may have just unleashed with the imminent arrival of the Affordable Housing Act.

  30. grim says:

    Last time I was in a hospital, I saw them wheeling around an xray machine that appeared to be from 1972.

    What, exactly, is the issue with covering an x-ray? Surely it can’t cost more than a dollar or two.

    What I’d like to do, is to open an “Informational Diagnostics” store-front, where customers can come in and get an purely informational assessment of their general health or overall medical condition (Please sign this disclaimer sir). They would interview with “Dr.” Apu Nahasapeemapetalon via videoconference, and an on-site “technician” would perform any required testing, including MRI or otherwise. At the end of the session, the customers would be given an assessment of the types of prescriptions that might be useful for the situation, along with the URL of a Canadian pharmacy.

    I’m sure I could provide this service at a tenth of the cost of a hospital, with almost identical levels of successful outcomes.

    Surprised Walmart hasn’t already done it. Instead of mandating everyone have medical coverage, how about offering non-medical diagnosis and treatment alternatives for those who would waive rights towards huge malpractice lawsuits.

  31. njescapee says:

    grim, baptist hospital uses a similar model

  32. Fast Eddie says:

    grim [35],

    What you’re proposing is an entrepreneurial spirit which is poo-pooed in the newly formed United Socialist States of America. :)

    Can I add something to your model? How about a small sample of blood taken to be quickly scanned by a software that identifies any warning signs? Just a thought.

  33. grim says:

    Last time I walked into one of those urgent care places on the weekend (shame on me, but the doctor was out playing golf, and his office is booked up for the next 3 months), I was seen by a barely compentent nurse practitioner and walked out with an Rx for Zithromax, in roughly about 15 minutes. I spent more time at the cashier paying.

    Even better, was away on vacation a year back and came down with something. Called the “hotel doctor”, that was a hoot. $75 bucks billed to my room (they don’t take insurance), and the Rx was waiting at the corner pharmacy for me (the concierge even offered to go pick it up).

  34. seif says:

    This is upsetting…Shiller is now touting mortgage reductions:

  35. All Hype says:

    I would like to personally thank the EU for the awesome end of quarter ramp job in the markets. Those Euro PIIGS really are the world champions of bullshitt!ng. They love to have meetings and make stuff up and announce it like it is going to happen.

    Thank you Euro bureacrats!

  36. Juice Box says:

    Grim – Apu like many of his realtives working in the tech field have fake degrees.

  37. Juice Box says:

    Re: 38 – if they crammed down the mortgages back in 08 the market would h.ave cleared by now, INSTEAD we have 2 million plus sitting in homes that haven’t made a payment in over a year

  38. Libtard in Union says:


    I agree with your discount medicine model and am surprised there aren’t practitioners on it already. Probably the fear of malpractice suits is stifling it. I’m guessing there will be a very successful black market for medicine in not too long. The tough part will be finding the legitimate help and avoiding the shysters.

  39. seif says:

    Closed in The ‘Fly….24% off original inflated listing price:

    Last LP: $998,000 ML#: 1128645
    Addr: 7 S PARK DR
    Twn: TENAFLY Zip: 07670

    Orig LP: $1,125,000
    Sold: $850,000
    Taxes: $20,967
    SD: 6/28/2012 UCD: 5/29/2012 DOM: 314

  40. A.West says:

    The US desperately needs wal-mart like actors in both healthcare and education. It might not be fancy, but gets the job done cheaply for most people and products. Instead, we like to pretend that everyone in America can and should go to Harvard and the Mayo Clinic, at no great expense.

    Just saw an in house industry review on healthcare – represents 17% of GDP in the US, far more than most countries. Only a small slice goes to the unpopular Pharma and Insurance Co profits. It’s mostly going to physicians and hospitals.

  41. Jill says:

    #3: Don’t get sick, ,and if you get sick, die quickly.

    Or you could vote for Mittens and use the $1000 coupon he’ll give you to try to buy coverage for your family.

  42. Shore Guy says:

    I am shocked, shocked to find out that such a socialist plan originated in the Peoples’ Republic of Ithaca.

  43. Mikeinwaiting says:

    Check the futures gentlemen up 200 at last look. Yes all is well in Europe they have a plan now! LOLROF

  44. Shore Guy says:

    As people who do not buy houses tend to be able to move to avoid increasing property taxes or to flee declining education quality and this movement can cost their towns and neighbors money, it is time for the Affordable Housing Act, which will mandate that people buy a house. No worries, though, if one ops out, one can just pay an extra 50% income tax. All us well.

  45. JJ says:

    S&P Futures are up 24+pts with Dow Futures up 195 pts.

  46. A.West says:

    Libtard, Grim,
    I suspect there’s a big underground medical economy for cash payers. Some are probably ok, and some are scammers (witch doctors, homeopaths, etc). All are almost certainly breaking the law. There are huge regulatory barriers protecting the current mainstream healthcare system from competition, in terms of licensing and permits.

    Soon, we’ll be wishing we had a free market in human healthcare as good as freer-market veterinary care:

  47. Shore Guy says:

    The future’s so bright I gotta wear shades.

  48. JJ says:

    The market way up on last day of June is good or bad. Lots of bond holders are moving to dividend paying stocks and prefs. We have a mountain load of cash being paid out July 1st and 15th. Anyhow. it is good news for 401K statements and retail investors 2Q statements. We are all going to be opening them up next Monday and Tuesday so July 4th will be great. I was buying with both fists all week as I kinda figured we would get good news before weekend and with mountain load of cash being paid out monday it has to help stocks and bonds.

    25 Billion munis and 20 Billion Bank Trups being paid out on July 1st and 15 alone. To majority of retail investors.

  49. grim says:

    My wife works at a large scale veterinary practice.

    Their service and technology far exceeds most of the hospitals I’ve seen.

    Neurosurgery, Oncology including chemo and radiotherapy, advanced orthopedics and cardiology. Brand new MRI and digital xray machines, etc etc.

  50. 3B says:

    #49 All on Europe, and all on the latest temporary fix.

  51. Jesus says:

    People of earth…when my dad flooded New Orleans all my devout righteous followers “knew” that we did it because that place is full of sin – sex, drugs, drinking, perversion, the devil’s music…all the stuff that makes up JJ’s average stay at home Monday evening. Now we are scorching the earth of Colorado Springs – a hotbed of our most devout and extreme followers…well, except for those time when they are in cheap motel rooms doing meth and s*cking the ding dongs of hired gay prostitutes…but I digress. The reason we flooded sin city south is obvious but can anyone guess why we would burn down extreme christian colorado springs?

  52. Libtard in Union says:

    Yet very few pet owners have medical insurance for their pets.

    Hmmm, I think we found the solution. And while we’re at it, can we make euthanasia legal for humans too?

  53. seif says:

    “The market way up on last day of June is good or bad. ”

    thanks for the insight! let me get my broker on the phone.

  54. JJ says:

    Just dont let her work on horses, every girl I ever knew who owned a horse and washed them no longer was happy with men. Well maybe Johns Holmes or the HedgeHog would be ok.

    grim says:
    June 29, 2012 at 9:22 am

    My wife works at a large scale veterinary practice.

    Their service and technology far exceeds most of the hospitals I’ve seen.

    Neurosurgery, Oncology including chemo and radiotherapy, advanced orthopedics and cardiology. Brand new MRI and digital xray machines, etc etc

  55. Bagholder Brian says:

    Sweet. you mean i may have actually done something right for a change? I put money into a fund that buys US Blue Chip stocks that have a consistently rising dividend. Also bought Global equity fund that has significant positions in Northern Europe……

    52.JJ says:
    June 29, 2012 at 9:22 am
    The market way up on last day of June is good or bad. Lots of bond holders are moving to dividend paying stocks and prefs. We have a mountain load of cash being paid out July 1st and 15th. Anyhow. it is good news for 401K statements and retail investors 2Q statements. We are all going to be opening them up next Monday and Tuesday so July 4th will be great. I was buying with both fists all week as I kinda figured we would get good news before weekend and with mountain load of cash being paid out monday it has to help stocks and bonds.

    25 Billion munis and 20 Billion Bank Trups being paid out on July 1st and 15 alone. To majority of retail investors.

  56. JJ says:

    It is good if you “jumped ahead” like I did and used Wed and Thursday to reinvest 7/1 interest/maturities as with T+3 by settlement date I already will have the cash in my account. It is bad if you waited till Monday to get your interest/maturities and by then stocks are up and you have a ton of cash chasing yield along with you in a mkt with extreme limited new issuance due to 7/4 holiday.

    Dang I did not get in on Service Now IPO today, symbol NOW. I bet a huge bounce.

    seif says:
    June 29, 2012 at 9:24 am

    “The market way up on last day of June is good or bad. ”

    thanks for the insight! let me get my broker on the phone.

  57. A.West says:

    Having access to veterinary care may well become the next underground economy boom (for people).
    When service providers and customers have direct interaction for payment, there are a lot of good incentives. When they don’t, well look at public schools, and increasingly, healthcare.

  58. Mikeinwaiting says:

    JJ 52, yesterday you said they were going to buy houses with all that money. I am trying to follow your sage calls but they keep changing.

  59. seif says:

    55 – they probably weren’t praying hard enough!

  60. JJ says:

    STD now SAN Banco Standander is up like a bullet. Off to races. DBOEF also jumped. as well as italian and spanish financials

  61. Painhrtz - Oooh a Donut! says:

    Lib I’m all for carousel

  62. Mikeinwaiting says:

    Pain “Logan’s Run” now that takes me back.

  63. chicagofinance says:

    This posted in the old thread…..

    Toucan Tom says:
    June 29, 2012 at 8:57 am

    So I went to my very large credit union (HQ’d in Somerset County) the other day and inquired about its REO.

    I was advised by the branch manager that at a meeting the day before, attendees were advised that the credit union doesn’t have much REO.

    I asked as to her observations on recent events, and she confirmed my thoughts:
    1) Realtors are (in collusion w/) over-pricing b/c:
    1.a) Anyone who wants to buy will be forced to pay more, especially as rates go down. This puts the floor in place.
    1.b) Very limited quality is on the market. Again, the lesser properties are putting in the floor for the neighborhoods, and anyone wanting better will be forced to pay.
    1.c) Houses are staying on the market longer and longer, mostly due to sellers not being in a bind to sell (yet) and nothing at all to do with the $5k price drop (seriously, do the math on $5k on top of a 30-yr, and yes, “it’s a matter of principal(S)”.

    1) Prices too high
    2) Prices being kept high
    3) Quality is very poor
    4) Nobody qualified to borrow 80%, 70% or even 60%?!!!
    5) It’s the heart of closure season and nobody is buying!!!!
    6) As Metro NY and NJ go (selling prices down 3.8% y-o-y), so goes the whole I-95 corridor north of Philly (forget DC).


    So, why are prices being held up in the face of continued unemployment/job losses/economic contraction?

    Mississipi Trading Company
    East India Tea Company
    Dutch Tulips
    and on and on….

  64. chicagofinance says:

    Is this your offhand way of disclosing that Jayne is pregnant? Congrats!!!!!!!

    grim says:
    June 29, 2012 at 7:44 am
    We are already screwed.

    Last year my health insurance no longer allowed my wife to stay on my policy, since she was eligible for coverage at work (Working spouse provisions, if you don’t have one today, you’ll have it tomorrow). So instead of being able to stay in the Associate + Spouse option, we needed to both go into the individual coverage.

    Wallet $200 lighter per month (thanks Obama!)

    Now, if I’ve got a kid on the way, it means that I’ve got to go all the way up into the Family plan to get coverage for the kid (surprisingly, there is no “Associate + 1″ option). So now I’ve got to pay the highest premium rate for “Family”, but that still doesn’t include my spouse.

    Wallet lighter by another $200+ a month (thanks Obama!)

    Essentially paying close to $5,000 more a year for exactly the same coverage I’d have gotten a year ago.

    And you guys are pissed off about property taxes?

  65. chicagofinance says:

    FabMax: I don’t know whether you enjoy spewing rhetoric for effect or you actually believe the stuff you post…….in a closed system your elitist and socialist Western European views make sense, but we don’t live in a closed system and our money is running out……you can just subscribe to an ideology and follow it to the end….we are in a lot of trouble and need to make some responsible decisions……you belong on a university campus, not in corporate America….

  66. JJ says:

    The reason I was buying houses and now still investing is my streak is still on. From June 2007 to June 2012 in my down payment account I have annualized returns of 21.7% a year. I am getting to the end of my rope in finding yield and stocks are almost fully recovered. The days of me getting 21.7% every year is getting hard. I almost threw in Towel and bought a place in Feb 2012 then came Europe, higher yields on munis in April and chances to buy higher yielding financials in June and what the heck I went back in. Made another 5% in June. Funny part is deal that fell threw was cause bank did not have clean title and bank will relist home in a few months. By then the 200K I would have spent on home I could have turned into 220k trading. Which gives me a discount of 20K on home. People forget the huge opportunity cost of owning homes. However as Chifi knows the easy free money in Trups is now over. Wow was that great. Risk free 12% a year every retiree was buying Trups last three years. Sad to see it goes, Retirees will eat dog food I guess when their 8.25% bonds are called Monday and end up in a money market at 000001%

    YTD +11.31% 3 Year +16.48% 5 Year +21.70%

  67. seif says:

    Hatemonger Michael Savage turns on Justice Roberts:

    “Let’s talk about Roberts,” Savage said. “I’m going to tell you something that you’re not gonna hear anywhere else, that you must pay attention to. It’s well known that Roberts, unfortunately for him, has suffered from epileptic seizures. Therefore he has been on medication. Therefore neurologists will tell you that medication used for seizure disorders, such as epilepsy, can introduce mental slowing, forgetfulness and other cognitive problems. And if you look at Roberts’ writings you can see the cognitive disassociation (sic) in what he is saying…”

  68. Bagholder Brian says:

    67 –
    Chi, “very large credit union (HQ’d in Somerset County)”……..

    Is that Affinity Federal Credit Union?

    If so, take what they say with a grain of salt. Their crystal ball was way off in 2006. I mean way off. They own Cumanet who I hear has been a revolving door of CEO’s in the past few years too. Also they purchased the building they occupied from during the real estate boom cuz, you know, real estate always goes up in value. There are some other brilliant moves including getting mixed up with a used car dealer and loaning them millions to purchase an old Saab dealership only to find out…ooops the town has an ordinance forbiding used car dealerships……

  69. JJ says:

    SHHHHH Jayne and I have not told him yet.

    chicagofinance says:
    June 29, 2012 at 9:40 am

    Is this your offhand way of disclosing that Jayne is pregnant? Congrats!!!!!!!

  70. Libtard in Union says:

    Sounds a lot like Reagan.

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  72. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [73] JJ

    JJ is on his game today

  73. Anon E. Moose says:

    Grim [19];

    And you guys are pissed off about property taxes?

    But… but… everyone keeps saying ‘It doesn’t matter who you elect!’ Unsaid is ‘… so stay home and let ACORN and illegals cast your vote for you.’

  74. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    Greetings from Seattle where I will spend another half day giving IRS free advice before catching the red eye to Newark.

    Not much to report except that one stock is up 16% on the day and 60% on the year, apparently due to advance sales in anticipation of Obama’s reelection: Smith and Wesson.

  75. Anon E. Moose says:

    Fast Eddie [29];

    Let the people decide in November which direction is equitable and then deal with it.

    Because the Constitution exists to limit the accumulation of power and create counter-majoritarian barriers to pure direct democracy (aka, mob rule). If it were up to a direct democracy, we’d have Jim crow and segregated lunch counters. More currently, gay marriage has failed at the ballot box everywhere its been tried, and very few states have even bothered to pass the measure through democratically elected legislature — MA, VT, CA, etc. relied on the courts to do so.

    Here’s the takeaway from teh Obamacare decision: There is effectively no limit on federal govenrment power to compel citizens to take any action, if the penalty for not doing so is a tax. Would it have been different if the penalty for not doing so was jail? If one do not pay the tax, do they not go to jail? Distinction without a difference.

    The only limit the court found on government power was that they didn’t have the power to cut off the trough of medicaid funds to the states. We’re f—ed.

  76. Mikeinwaiting says:

    Nom 78 Smith and Wesson, now there is a Tell if I ever saw one, Cue Meat.

  77. freedy says:

    under the radar another solar company closes the doors. Taxpayers lose only another 68million in loans. Oh, well no problem lets see who else we can give away money to

  78. Essex says:

    Anyone live in Smokerise? I know we looked (here on the board) at a modern home there some time ago. Sweet crib. Curious if that one went and for what. Seems like the “club” there is neat for the kiddos….any one?

  79. Essex says:

    22. Yes…;-)

  80. seif says:

    Senator Marc Rubio gets more foolish looking by the day. First with immigration, now this…

    Sen. Marco Rubio (R-FL) on why the mandate is a tax at the federal level from President Obama but not at the state level from Gov. Romney …

    Romney “supported it on the state level. Which means if you didn’t like it in Massachusetts, you could move to another state,” Rubio said on Bloomberg Television. “What are people supposed to do? Leave the United States now because of Barack Obama’s brilliant idea to stick the IRS on millions of people? More importantly, the state of Massachusetts doesn’t have the IRS. The IRS will follow you. Do people understand what this means?”

  81. Anon E. Moose says:

    Re; “Wal-Mart” health care (or education);

    Although Wal-Mart is know for cheap prices (or cheap goods), anybody can sell cheap sh!t if they choose to. That’s focusing on the outcome, rather than the cause.

    What Wal-Mart did differently that makes them profitable is manage their distribution chain to get those goods to the stores cheaply, so even if they charge low prices, they can make money regardless.

    To do that for healthcare (or education), it would be necessary to limit the cost of the inputs. For higher education: resort-like B&M facilities; six-figure tenured professors who produce little, six-figure admins who produce even less.

  82. Bebo says:

    What no mention of Holder other than bag holder and bond holder today?

    I would think we are headed into new legal territory on this one. Perhaps Congress will reopen the Congressional jail? It wasn’t that long ago that the left was threatening Rove with it. Pelosi even ranted about it last week. Will the United States attorney in Washington, D.C. resign or bring the charges in front of a Grand Jury? Are we headed into Nixonian territory?

  83. seif says:

    84 – I do agree with Rubio on one point about Romneycare being different than Obamacare.

    FACT: Romney care pays for free abortions, Obamacare does not.

  84. Essex says:


  85. Painhrtz - Oooh a Donut! says:

    Seif I don’t think you understand that the USA is a republic and as a whole Rubio is right. Like a broken clock right, but right none the less.

  86. chicagofinance says:

    Bebo: your politics suddenly shifted right….

  87. Libtard in Union says:

    seif = Bebo?

  88. JJ says:

    Chifi some people like to curse the darkness, you and I just turn on a light. Sometimes it is really that simple.

    chicagofinance says:
    June 29, 2012 at 11:00 am

    Bebo: your politics suddenly shifted right….

  89. The Original NJ Expat says:

    [11] grim – Yep, that’s about the number. I was paying that for COBRA for 18 months in 2008-9, then I found a $1300 private policy and just as that was about to go up to $1700 in Summer 2010 I dove under the corporate umbrella.

    What’s the option today? About $1,500/mo. minimum for family coverage?

  90. Shore Guy says:

    Tell me our educational system is not in deep trouble. I stopped in for a snack. The total came to $ 4.03 and I gave the cashier $5.05. Now class, how much change did I get back? Oh, and don’t dare say $1.02, as the screaming cashier and two coworkers — who were also insistent — assured me that was incorrect.

  91. Painhrtz - Oooh a Donut! says:

    Shore how dare you not give them either exact amount or one that is easy for their feeble minds to wrap around.

    Had a bill for 11.01 at a local starbucks, handed the dolt behind the counter 21.01 idiot counted out 99 cents a 5 and 4 singles then handed me my penny and single back. I was too dumbfounded and fascinated to even respond

  92. The Original NJ Expat says:

    [24] Brian – Stokes Forest. Bring a tent.

    there are affordable, nice places to live all over NJ…

  93. Grim says:

    I didn’t think they were permitted to do math as part of their job.

    Starbucks POS terminals show “cashiers” graphical representations of currency, which they select based on what the customer provided.

    He clicked the picture of the 20, and the register told him what to do. It was probably faster just to hand you the change back than to undo the transaction.

    I wouldn’t be surprised if the POS inventories currency by denomination for quality and
    accuracy reasons (big brother doesn’t trust their math either), and to automatically force the clerk to do drops of specific counts by bill.

  94. The Original NJ Expat says:

    [95] Shore – I can remember the first time I inadvertently played the “When I was your age…” card. I was only about 30 and I stopped into the Micky D’s just south of Route 3 on the GSP late one night. I ordered a cheeseburger and a drink. The one register jock started complaining to the other one, “I hate this register! The cheeseburger key never works!”. I replied, “When I was your age I worked at McDonald’s and we had to memorize all the prices and then do sales tax in our head at the end of the order (true, btw)”. They just stared at me like I was the guy on his way to old and grumpy that I surely was.

    The total came to $ 4.03 and I gave the cashier $5.05.

  95. Painhrtz - Oooh a Donut! says:

    grim which is a truly frightening prospect maybe we are better off just having big brother or IQ tests for voting rights

  96. Fast Eddie says:

    One better: went through a drive through for McD’s coffee recently; handed the guy (kid) three half dollars. His response? “I don’t think we take these.”

  97. Juice Box says:

    Down by the sea
    I found your hidden treasure
    Just you and me,
    We overdosed on pleasure

    Anyone going to the Jersey Shore this weekend? I will be riding my bike by DJ’s in the evening to check out the talent…

  98. Bagholder Brian says:

    Are you familiar with that post? I was surprised when I learned who wrote it.

    97.The Original NJ Expat says:
    June 29, 2012 at 11:25 am
    [24] Brian – Stokes Forest. Bring a tent.

    there are affordable, nice places to live all over NJ…

  99. Painhrtz - Oooh a Donut! says:

    juice make sure you spray yourself with Lysol first

  100. ODB Juice Box says:

    Pain – I won’t be partaking just adjusting to my new role in life as a ODB, and it’s OL’ not OLD.

  101. JJ says:

    I played the when I was your age card in first grade when I told a kindergartener back when I was in kindergaten I would have kicked the snot out of you and took your milk money.

  102. reinvestor101 says:

    I’m still steaming over that damn turncoat Roberts. He’s a stinking RINO and I hate him with all my heart. The government needs to shrink and it’s high damn time we got rid of the damn supreme court. What the hell good are these 9 dirtbags who sit the hell around well past their damn usefulness. That punk Roberts is young and that means we have to suffer under this stinking RINO for decades. That bullspit. Disband the damn supreme court. We don’t need a bunch of octogenarian punks jamming shlt down my damn throat.

    Also, I noticed some damn dirtbag got on here yesterday with an handle reinvestor102.7 trying to steal my damn thunder. Whoever you are, stick a pipe in it and cut that crap the hell out. Get your own damn schtick and leave my name out of it. Punk.

  103. The Original NJ Expat says:

    [103] Vintage Meat. It used to confuse the hell out of me when I first started reading this blog a couple years ago. Kind of like a code language where monikers are changed but regular readers know who’s who and refer to each other by first names, previous names, etc. I guess it’s just the price of admission.

    Are you familiar with that post? I was surprised when I learned who wrote it.

  104. the not orginal expat jj says:

    I dont see what is confusing at all

  105. Mikeinwaiting says:

    Expat 108 yes many here have gone through many names over the years, it does sometimes get confusing. Where you around for the Jersey Shore name additions it was pretty funny we had a good time with it. I however have stayed MIW (aka Bicep for JS fun) throughout.

  106. Mikeinwaiting says:

    All of “Meats/Clots” monikers over the years for 500 Alex.

  107. Mikeinwaiting says:

    Wow markets are on fire Italy up almost a 1000.

  108. Painhrtz - JJ Still Kettle Booyah says:

    Ex it is sad that most of us know who is who by the tone of their posts

  109. freedy says:

    in other local NJ news Patterson rehires cops. Let the good times roll .

  110. seif says:

    Meat wrote that post when?

    It is a great post, btw.

  111. The Original NJ Expat says:

    [111] I think I jumped on board during the “Final Doom” clot days, early 2010? I spent the first couple weeks saying to myself “Who the frick is clot?”. Finally went back to the beginning and figured most of it out.

    All of “Meats/Clots” monikers over the years for 500 Alex.

  112. The Original NJ Expat says:

    [115] 2006

  113. seif says:

    it is a great post, written by a fine jedi warrior…before “to the darkside went he.”

  114. Mikeinwaiting says:

    Pain 113 Kettle doing fine at last contact BTW , we keep in touch & GTG once in a while.

  115. Bagholder Brian says:

    Is reinvestor101 General Patton reincarnated as a real estate investor or something?

  116. Libtard in Union says:

    I think I’ve only two names here. Stu and Libtard (which Qwerty so aptly named me).

  117. reinvestor101 says:

    >>>Bagholder Brian says:
    June 29, 2012 at 12:50 pm

    Is reinvestor101 General Patton reincarnated as a real estate investor or something?<<<

    Son, do I know you? Whether I know you or not, show some damn respect. Let's get another thing damn straight. If you're a rocked ribbed red blooded American conservative, we'll get along just fine, but if you're a lilly livered liberal/RINO invertebrate, get ready to catch hell. Which is it boy?

  118. chicagofinance says:

    Fascinating or scary…but not unexpected….

    Wall Street Journal
    Your E-Book Is Reading You

    Digital-book publishers and retailers now know more about their readers than ever before. How that’s changing the experience of reading..


    It takes the average reader just seven hours to read the final book in Suzanne Collins’s “Hunger Games” trilogy on the Kobo e-reader—about 57 pages an hour. Nearly 18,000 Kindle readers have highlighted the same line from the second book in the series: “Because sometimes things happen to people and they’re not equipped to deal with them.” And on Barnes & Noble’s Nook, the first thing that most readers do upon finishing the first “Hunger Games” book is to download the next one.

    In the past, publishers and authors had no way of knowing what happens when a reader sits down with a book. Does the reader quit after three pages, or finish it in a single sitting? Do most readers skip over the introduction, or read it closely, underlining passages and scrawling notes in the margins? Now, e-books are providing a glimpse into the story behind the sales figures, revealing not only how many people buy particular books, but how intensely they read them.

    For centuries, reading has largely been a solitary and private act, an intimate exchange between the reader and the words on the page. But the rise of digital books has prompted a profound shift in the way we read, transforming the activity into something measurable and quasi-public.

    The major new players in e-book publishing—Amazon, Apple and Google—can easily track how far readers are getting in books, how long they spend reading them and which search terms they use to find books. Book apps for tablets like the iPad, Kindle Fire and Nook record how many times readers open the app and how much time they spend reading. Retailers and some publishers are beginning to sift through the data, gaining unprecedented insight into how people engage with books.

    Publishing has lagged far behind the rest of the entertainment industry when it comes to measuring consumers’ tastes and habits. TV producers relentlessly test new shows through focus groups; movie studios run films through a battery of tests and retool them based on viewers’ reactions. But in publishing, reader satisfaction has largely been gauged by sales data and reviews—metrics that offer a postmortem measure of success but can’t shape or predict a hit. That’s beginning to change as publishers and booksellers start to embrace big data, and more tech companies turn their sights on publishing.

    Barnes & Noble, which accounts for 25% to 30% of the e-book market through its Nook e-reader, has recently started studying customers’ digital reading behavior. Data collected from Nooks reveals, for example, how far readers get in particular books, how quickly they read and how readers of particular genres engage with books. Jim Hilt, the company’s vice president of e-books, says the company is starting to share their insights with publishers to help them create books that better hold people’s attention.
    The stakes are high for the company as it seeks a greater share of the e-book market. Sales of Nook devices rose 45% this past fiscal year, and e-book sales for the Nook rose 119%. Overall, Nook devices and e-books generated $1.3 billion, compared to $880 million the previous year. Microsoft recently invested $300 million for a 17.6% stake of the Nook.

    Mr. Hilt says that the company is still in “the earliest stages of deep analytics” and is sifting through “more data than we can use.” But the data—which focuses on groups of readers, not individuals—has already yielded some useful insights into how people read particular genres. Some of the findings confirm what retailers already know by glancing at the best-seller lists. For example, Nook users who buy the first book in a popular series like “Fifty Shades of Grey” or “Divergent,” a young-adult series by Veronica Roth, tend to tear through all the books in the series, almost as if they were reading a single novel.

    Barnes & Noble has determined, through analyzing Nook data, that nonfiction books tend to be read in fits and starts, while novels are generally read straight through, and that nonfiction books, particularly long ones, tend to get dropped earlier. Science-fiction, romance and crime-fiction fans often read more books more quickly than readers of literary fiction do, and finish most of the books they start. Readers of literary fiction quit books more often and tend skip around between books.

    Those insights are already shaping the types of books that Barnes & Noble sells on its Nook. Mr. Hilt says that when the data showed that Nook readers routinely quit long works of nonfiction, the company began looking for ways to engage readers in nonfiction and long-form journalism. They decided to launch “Nook Snaps,” short works on topics ranging from weight loss and religion to the Occupy Wall Street movement.

    Pinpointing the moment when readers get bored could also help publishers create splashier digital editions by adding a video, a Web link or other multimedia features, Mr. Hilt says. Publishers might be able to determine when interest in a fiction series is flagging if readers who bought and finished the first two books quickly suddenly slow down or quit reading later books in the series.

    “The bigger trend we’re trying to unearth is where are those drop-offs in certain kinds of books, and what can we do with publishers to prevent that?” Mr. Hilt says. “If we can help authors create even better books than they create today, it’s a win for everybody.”

    Some authors welcome the prospect. Novelist Scott Turow says he’s long been frustrated by the industry’s failure to study its customer base. “I once had an argument with one of my publishers when I said, ‘I’ve been publishing with you for a long time and you still don’t know who buys my books,’ and he said, ‘Well, nobody in publishing knows that,’ ” says Mr. Turow, president of the Authors Guild. “If you can find out that a book is too long and you’ve got to be more rigorous in cutting, personally I’d love to get the information.”

    Others worry that a data-driven approach could hinder the kinds of creative risks that produce great literature. “The thing about a book is that it can be eccentric, it can be the length it needs to be, and that is something the reader shouldn’t have anything to do with,” says Jonathan Galassi, president and publisher of Farrar, Straus & Giroux. “We’re not going to shorten ‘War and Peace’ because someone didn’t finish it.”

    Publishers are only just beginning to mull over the potential uses for e-reading data. Many are skeptical that analytics can aid in the industry’s ongoing battle to woo consumers who are increasingly distracted by games and social media. But at a time when traditional publishers are losing ground to tech giants like Amazon and Apple, better analytics seem to offer tantalizing possibilities.

    Amazon, in particular, has an advantage in this field—it’s both a retailer and a publisher, which puts the company in a unique position to use the data it gathers on its customers’ reading habits. It’s no secret that Amazon and other digital book retailers track and store consumer information detailing what books are purchased and read. Kindle users sign an agreement granting the company permission to store information from the device—including the last page you’ve read, plus your bookmarks, highlights, notes and annotations—in its data servers.

    Amazon can identify which passages of digital books are popular with readers, and shares some of this data publicly on its website through features such as its “most highlighted passages” list. Readers digitally “highlight” selections using a button on the Kindle; they can also opt to see the lines commonly highlighted by other readers as they read a book. Amazon aggregates these selections to see what gets underlined the most. Topping the list is the line from the “Hunger Games” trilogy. It is followed by the opening sentence of “Pride and Prejudice.”

    “We think of it as the collective intelligence of all the people reading on Kindle,” says Amazon spokeswoman Kinley Pearsall.

    Some privacy watchdogs argue that e-book users should be protected from having their digital reading habits recorded. “There’s a societal ideal that what you read is nobody else’s business,” says Cindy Cohn, legal director for the Electronic Frontier Foundation, a nonprofit group that advocates for consumer rights and privacy. “Right now, there’s no way for you to tell Amazon, I want to buy your books, but I don’t want you to track what I’m reading.”

    Amazon declined to comment on how it analyzes and uses the Kindle data it gathers.

    EFF has pressed for legislation to prevent digital book retailers from handing over information about individuals’ reading habits as evidence to law enforcement agencies without a court’s approval. Earlier this year, California instituted the “reader privacy act,” which makes it more difficult for law-enforcement groups to gain access to consumers’ digital reading records. Under the new law, agencies must get a court order before they can require digital booksellers to turn over information revealing which books their customers have browsed, purchased, read and underlined. The American Civil Liberties Union and EFF, which partnered with Google and other organizations to push for the legislation, are now seeking to enact similar laws in other states.

    Bruce Schneier, a cyber-security expert and author, worries that readers may steer clear of digital books on sensitive subjects such as health, sexuality and security—including his own works—out of fear that their reading is being tracked. “There are a gazillion things that we read that we want to read in private,” Mr. Schneier says.

    There are some 40 million e-readers and 65 million tablets in use in the U.S., according to analysts at Forrester Research. In the first quarter of 2012, e-books generated $282 million in sales, compared to $230 million for print, the Association of American Publishers recently found.

    Meanwhile, the shift to digital books has fueled an arms race among digital start-ups seeking to cash in on the massive pool of data collected by e-reading devices and reading apps. New e-reading services, which allow readers to purchase and store books in a digital library and read them on different devices, have some of the most sophisticated reader tracking software. The digital reading platform Copia, which has 50,000 subscribers, collects detailed demographic and reading data—including the age, gender and school affiliation of people who bought particular titles, as well as how many times the books were downloaded, opened and read—and shares its findings with publishers. Copia aggregates the data, so that individual users aren’t identifiable, and shares that information with publishers that request it.

    Kobo, which makes digital reading devices and operates an e-reading service that stocks 2.5 million books and has more than eight million users, has recently started looking at how readers as a whole engage with particular books and genres. The company tracks how many hours readers spend on particular titles and how far they get. Kobo recently found, for example, that most readers who started George R.R. Martin’s fantasy novel “A Dance With Dragons” finished the book, and spent an average of 20 hours reading it, a relatively fast read for a 1,040-page novel.

    Some publishers are already beginning to market test books digitally, before releasing a print edition. Earlier this year, Sourcebooks, which publishes 250 titles a year, began experimenting with a new model of serial, online publishing. Sourcebooks has released early online editions for half a dozen titles, ranging from romance to young adult to nonfiction books, and has solicited questions and suggestions from readers. Eventually, readers’ feedback will be incorporated into the print version.

    Scholastic, which publishes popular young-adult fiction such as Harry Potter and “The Hunger Games,” created online message boards and interactive games connected to its popular series “39 Clues.” The online game and message board, which has 1.9 million registered users, allows the publisher to track which story lines and characters are resonating with young readers. David Levithan, Scholastic’s publisher and editorial director, says the online feedback has shaped the ongoing “39 Clues” series and helped to turn it into a global franchise with more than 15 million copies in print.

    “You very rarely get a glimpse into the reader’s mind,” he says. “With a printed book, there’s no such thing as an analytic. You can’t tell which pages are dog-eared.”

    Few publishers have taken the experiment as far as Coliloquy, a digital publishing company that was created earlier this year by Waynn Lue, a computer scientist and former Google engineer, and Lisa Rutherford, a venture capitalist and former president of Twofish, a gaming-analytics firm.

    Coliloquy’s digital books, which are available on Kindle, Nook and Android e-readers, have a “choose-your-own-adventure”-style format, allowing readers to customize characters and plot lines. The company’s engineers aggregate and pool the data gleaned from readers’ selections and send it to the authors, who can adjust story lines in their next books to reflect popular choices.

    “Data and analytics, we’ve seen how it revolutionized certain industries like mobile apps and gaming,” says Mr. Lue. “With reading, we don’t yet have that engagement data, and we wanted to provide a feedback mechanism that didn’t exist before between authors and readers.”

    Coliloquy developed its software through Amazon’s Kindle data developer program, which allows outside companies to create interactive content for Kindle. Their proprietary data platform draws on complex algorithms, similar to gaming software, that lets readers choose from different narrative pathways.

    The company hired six editors and five technology and product developers and began recruiting authors from a range of genres, including romance, nonfiction, young adult fantasy and erotica. Since launching this past January, the company has released eight titles, and is expanding into crime fiction, legal thrillers and experimental fiction. Mr. Lue and Ms. Rutherford declined to provide sales figures for Coliloquy’s titles, citing a nondisclosure agreement with Amazon. But they say more than 90% of readers who buy Colloquy’s books, which range from $2.99 to $7.99, finish reading them, and 67% reread the books.

    In “Parish Mail,” Kira Snyder’s young adult mystery series set in New Orleans, readers can decide whether the teenage protagonist solves crimes by using magic or by teaming up with a police detective’s cute teenage son. Readers of “Great Escapes,” an erotic romance series co-written by Linda Wisdom and Lynda K. Scott, can customize the hero’s appearance and the intensity of the love scenes. A recent report from Coliloquy showed that the ideal hero for “Great Escapes” readers is tall with black hair and green eyes, a rugged, burly build and a moderately but not overly hairy chest.

    In Tawna Fenske’s romantic caper “Getting Dumped”—which centers on a young woman who finds work at a landfill after getting laid off from her high-profile job at the county’s public relations office—readers can choose which of three suitors they want the heroine to pursue. The most recent batch of statistics showed that 53.3% chose Collin, a Hugh Grant type; 16.8% chose Pete, the handsome but unavailable co-worker; and 29.7% of readers liked Daniel, the heroine’s emotionally distant boyfriend.

    Ms. Fenske originally planned to get rid of Daniel by sending him to prison and writing him out of the series. Then she saw the statistics. She decided 29.7 % was too big a chunk of her audience to ignore.

    “So much of the time, it’s an editor and agent and publisher telling you, ‘This is what readers want,’ but this is hands-on reader data,” says Ms. Fenske, 37, who lives in Bend, Ore. “I’ve always wondered, did that person buy it and stop after the first three pages? Now I can see they bought it and read it in the first week.”

  119. Essex says:

    124. I don’t even have to look and see “who” posted the above novel.

  120. ODB Juice Box says:

    Essex he was doing you a favor since you don’t have a subscription.

  121. The Original NJ Expat says:

    From :

    (Lib-Tard) 1) Combination of the words Liberal and retard (see also: Libterd, libturd, libnerd, libsurd, libdiot, libored) 2) The result when a tree hugger successfully mates with a tree and the offspring is born with an extra chromosome. 3) Any helpless society that must always be liberated by the blood and sweat of others yet are too arrogant and stupid to realize that they owe their entire existance to others.(see also: French-tard, French-Tarded, Retarded-Frenchmen).
    1) Hillary clinton and her husband, you know what’s his face. You know that libtard that got impeached for going down on that fat chick in the beret that looked like Rosie Odonnel.
    2) Look at that tall mongoloid with the vote Kerry T-shirt. Must be one of them libtards.
    3) Screw you Frenchie! You freakin’ Libtard.

  122. POS cape says:


    Interesting, I own a Kindle. What I don’t inderstand is how Amazon is able to do this. Since I download my ebooks to my PC first, then download them from the PC to the Kindle via USB cable, and the wifi is never on, how would they know what I highlight or bookmark?

  123. Libtard in Union says:

    I guess I shouldn’t have downloaded Mein Kampf to my Fire.

  124. Bagholder Brian says:

    Neither. Right leaning centrist…..please don’t shoot…..

    123.reinvestor101 says:
    June 29, 2012 at 1:04 pm

    Son, do I know you? Whether I know you or not, show some damn respect. Let’s get another thing damn straight. If you’re a rocked ribbed red blooded American conservative, we’ll get along just fine, but if you’re a lilly livered liberal/RINO invertebrate, get ready to catch hell. Which is it boy?

  125. Libtard in Union says:

    I used to be rock-ribbed. Now I just eat too many ribs.

  126. A.West says:

    I don’t think you’re particularly liberal (in the modern political usage of the term) or retarded. A liberal would never question the decisions of the philosopher kings ruling Montclair. Cap’n Cheapo makes more sense. Was it your inner drive to economize that moved you further away from the left?

  127. chicagofinance says:

    No, it’s a little retired benefits administrator spitfire reincarnated as a real estate investor or something…..

    Bagholder Brian says:
    June 29, 2012 at 12:50 pm
    Is reinvestor101 General Patton reincarnated as a real estate investor or something?

  128. chicagofinance says:

    I love the poster handle “Left Wing”…but it is a hockey reference….

    A.West says:
    June 29, 2012 at 1:31 pm
    I don’t think you’re particularly liberal (in the modern political usage of the term) or retarded. A liberal would never question the decisions of the philosopher kings ruling Montclair. Cap’n Cheapo makes more sense. Was it your inner drive to economize that moved you further away from the left?

  129. zieba says:


    Re: Post 96,
    My mind has been blown for today.

    “Had a bill for 11.01 at a local starbucks, handed the dolt behind the counter 21.01 idiot counted out 99 cents a 5 and 4 singles then handed me my penny and single back. I was too dumbfounded and fascinated to even respond”


  130. raging bull jj says:

    At least for today, dang it I did not get in on Service Now.

    Best June in 13 years for stocks. Meanwhile Housing is bragging the price decreases are declining.

    Think about how hard it is to build wealth in RE. In an investment property between all the work, interest, property tax, and phase out of deductions at higher income levels. Your real profit comes 30 years down road when tenant has paid off your mortgage.

    Meanwhile some rich bozo broker called him yesterday and said you want in on Service Now IPO and he made 30% over night.

    Even the Trups Chifi and me were talking about 2 years ago, for $7 dollar commission you could buy the bond in one minute one line. Bond called next money and you are up 24%.

    Stocks are way out of favor but always come back as only way to build real wealth over time.

    Most mansions in hamptons are bought from people who cashed out of stocks to buy the mansion, they did not get rich buying mansions.

  131. yo says:

    To more important news brief:

    Tom Cruise and Katie Holmes divorcing after 5 years

  132. ODB Juice Box says:

    Who uses cash still?

  133. Ten Swamps says:

    Tenafly Comp Killer

    7 S Park Dr, Tenafly NJ
    East Hill, 0.34 acres
    All-brick slate-roof colonial, 4br, 2,496 sqft
    NJMLS #1128645

    Original list price: $1,125,000 (7/2011)
    Last list price: $998,000
    Sale price: $850,000 (6/28/2012)

    Tax assessment: $929,400 (2011)

  134. Anon E. Moose says:

    Juice [138];

    If you knew half of what the CC companies do with the data they are privy to, you’d not only use case, but burn the plastic and and wrap your wallet in tin foil. Besides, its a little insidious that that get to skim 2-3% off the entire economy.

    That said, I use cash wherever the merchant kicks in the appropriate cash discount; else I’ll grab the cash back that the CC company offers — bill paid in full every month.

  135. Jill says:

    re #107: Did you feel this way when they handed the presidency to GWB?

  136. Fast Eddie says:

    Jill [141],

    Here’s hoping Romney has a landslide victory in November. I’d hate to see it come down to a Roberts decision. ;)

  137. Fiddy Cents on the Dollar says:

    Re : Amazon/Google Axis of Evil —

    There’s definitely something going on there. Last week, I was searching for information on the mosquito-repelling plants like citronella and lemongrass, etc. This week, I start getting emails from “Amazon Local Deals” for, you guessed it……..Mosquito-repelling plants.

    That’s not the kind of thing I chalk up to co-incidence.

    I’m going to test my little theory by Googlin’ the term “Hookers and Blow”. I’ll report back on my findings !!

  138. Libtard in Union says:

    I was dubbed libtard because Qwerty was convinced I was just another TPM/MSNBC drone because I called him on every Drudge report retread he posted here. Right now I am a registered Repub, but I tend to vote fairly left when I do vote. For the most part, it’s a true waste of time. You get much more bang for your voting buck by influencing local politics anyhow, which I did to no avail. To answer why I moved, mainly to escape Montclair’s astounding debt. Depending on who you ask and what temperature it is outside, it’s anywhere from 230 million to 300 million. Keep in mind, there are only 37,000 residents in Montclair. Already, 1 of every 5 tax dollar collected goes to pay for servicing this debt. I could get a better school system and significantly better government services two houses down my block and still enjoy the diversity and great restaurants and culture in Montclair. Only now I don’t pay for it. And GR has almost zero capital debt. It’s funny, we attend various block party functions on our block which only has four Glen Ridge families on it. The other 30 or so families reside in Montclair. It’s fun to brag about how great our services are down the block, when the topic of conversation turns to Montclairs sh1tty refuse collection or parking rules or school issues. Plus, our schools in Glen Ridge still have librarians and foreign language teachers in the elementary schools. Quite honestly, it was a no-brainer.

  139. Libtard in Union says:

    In other news, Montclair does not want to negotiate with us over our multi’s property taxes this year. It looks like we have to go to hearing. This does not bode well for our tenants who will have to make up whatever increase we face. Last time we went to hearing with the county, they screwed us, even though we presented 6 or 7 compelling and honest comps and they couldn’t come up with more than one which was almost a mile away in a completely different neighborhood. We’ll see what happens this time. Worst case scenario, we blew $25 for the entertainment value of watching a day of tax hearings.

  140. Libtard in Union says:

    Look a the market go. What else can Obama reform? Wah wah.

  141. Waiting in Rent says:

    Hey Fast Freddy,
    Check out Horizon Basic EPO. I haven’t looked recently, but it was reasonable.

  142. Mitt Romney says:

    Don’t worry Fast Eddie, I am going to rescue you. People like you are my top priority.

  143. reinvestor101 says:

    >>>Bagholder Brian says:
    June 29, 2012 at 1:28 pm

    Neither. Right leaning centrist…..please don’t shoot…..<<<

    Boy, that don't sound right. Either you're a red meat eating rock ribbed American or you're one of these damn limp wrist RINO's/stinking liberals. There's no damn in between–you're either one or the damn other and it sounds like you a part of the damn other.

    Tell you what boy, I'm gonna be nice today since it's July 4th weekend and give you a chance to change your damn answer. Now answer the question–are you a true American or are you one of these damn wusses like Justice Roberts? Don't muck up the answer boy cause you ain't getting a third chance to get it right.

  144. llort says:

    #95 Shore guy

    Instead of using singles, try mixing in some Presidential $1 coins. It’s amazing how many cashiers don’t know what they are and have to call over the manager.

    Although I’m not sure how JJ would use those coins at his favorite, umm, dancing hall.

  145. Mike says:

    95 & 150 try giving them some old silver certificates which I brought to a Wachovia about 3 years ago because I didn’t want the hassle of spending somewhere, the little cocky 20 year old who wanted to make a name for himself thought they were counterfiet

  146. Shore Guy says:

    “Did you feel this way when they handed the presidency to GWB?”

    Bush v. Gore was improperly decided. From where I sit, the issue was political, not legal and SCOTUS should have tossed the election to the House. It would have resulted in the same outcome but, at least it would have been a nakedly-political decision.

  147. Shore Guy says:


    You should see what happens when one tries to use a $2 bill. I once had a cashier tell me, “Sorry. We only take American money.”

  148. raging bull jj says:

    I never knew strippers had cashiers.

    Shore Guy says:
    June 29, 2012 at 4:43 pm


    You should see what happens when one tries to use a $2 bill. I once had a cashier tell me, “Sorry. We only take American money.”

  149. Jason says:

    What Montclair did to itself over the years is sad. Property taxes rose higher and higher with nary a peep from its residents. Now average property tax bill is 16 grand. And what do they get for it? Cuts in services, library on life support, s0-so schools and an ongoing decline in property values.

  150. llort says:

    #154 JAson,

    All of Montclair’s problems would be solved with bike paths.

  151. llort says:

    #152 Shore Guy

    $2 bills. Wow, I can’t remember the last time I saw one of those in circulation.

  152. Richard says:

    Montclair is expensive, but looking around taxes seem higher in Bergen, Westchester, LI.

    Or am I wrong?

  153. Commanderbobnj says:

    “Did you feel this way when they handed the presidency to GWB?”

    “…Bush v. Gore was improperly decided. From where I sit, the issue was political, not legal and SCOTUS should have tossed the election to the House. It would have resulted in the same…”
    Commanderbob sez: Concerning the Bush -vs- Gore election :
    I totally disagree with posters on this blog that the Supreme Court was wrong in deciding that Presidental Election,,,,, The democrats and their left-wing cronies would have kept up the counting of those “chads” for weeks or months and the final total of votes for Bush would have been about the same. This Nation COULD NOT afford to have an UNDECIDED presidental election go on and on ……

    BUT, If Gore would have been declared the WINNER, the mess that the liberals and left-wingers in general would have created for the next four Gore years would have finished-off their party for many years hence…….Besides, they could not have BLAMED BUSH as they have been doing up-to-now and for probably for a few more years IF Obama-Baggs wins in November ….
    Bush was a mistake. I agree with most of you here.—— So-called “neo-cons”, Rinos and the like have no-place in the Republican Party. The party works very well with a TRUE right-wing Conservative base. ———- With Bush and those rinos in charge “WE” got snagged with that cesspool of a spot called the Middle East in which the Bama administration just doesn’t have the brains to cut ours losses NOW in Afganistan
    and bring home our troops in 60-to-90 days !!!!!

    Stay Well All,

  154. Richard says:

    I’ll have to ask again next week re Montclair taxes

  155. Statler Waldorf says:

    Study of Disputed Florida Ballots Finds Justices Did Not Cast the Deciding Vote


    November 12, 2001

    Acomprehensive review of the uncounted Florida ballots from last year’s presidential election reveals that George W. Bush would have won even if the United States Supreme Court had allowed the statewide manual recount of the votes that the Florida Supreme Court had ordered to go forward.

    Contrary to what many partisans of former Vice President Al Gore have charged, the United States Supreme Court did not award an election to Mr. Bush that otherwise would have been won by Mr. Gore. A close examination of the ballots found that Mr. Bush would have retained a slender margin over Mr. Gore if the Florida court’s order to recount more than 43,000 ballots had not been reversed by the United States Supreme Court.

    Even under the strategy that Mr. Gore pursued at the beginning of the Florida standoff — filing suit to force hand recounts in four predominantly Democratic counties — Mr. Bush would have kept his lead, according to the ballot review conducted for a consortium of news organizations.

  156. NJCoast says:

    For all the old folks here . Crosby, Stills, and Nash at the Count Basie Theatre just finished Our House, harmonies as great as ever. Nice guys, especially David and Graham.

  157. Pete says:


    Is this reinvestor101 satire? Which is satire to begin with I MIGHT add,,,,

    Very timely article. Thanks. I’m on board.

  158. Brian (24)-

    That was me, pre-Lehman. On September 15, 2008, the financial version of ebola was set loose on the world, and the world will not recover until the whole stinking mf’er is burned to the ground and the reset button is hit.

  159. Burn the mf’er to the ground, and shoot every single officeholder in DC, Trenton and every other state capital.

    I used to make Pol Pot jokes, but that dude was onto something. The only way to real change is just to shoot massive amounts of useless people.

  160. Put Eric Cantor and rictus-face Pelosi together against a wall, and bust a cap on both of them.

    Two parties, two bankrupt ideologies, both of them just disgusting in their own special ways.

  161. Fabius Maximus says:

    #19 Grim
    Well lets start with the fact that Working Spousal Coverage issue started well before O, this comes straight down to your employer..
    To have any chance with this you need to get to the black and white text of the plan document. Some plans will actually cover you, but the administrators interpretation is that you cannot get the coverage. Getting the base plan document is very hard to get to with a lot of companies. Most of the time you are dealing with the provider your company subcontarcted too. One line to push with this, is provide a letter from your spouses employer stating that they are not covered under the ir plan or they will no longer be covered under the plan. They may cover uner that circumstance. At then end of the day most of these people just need you to provide them with a hard paper trail to agree to the coverage.
    This is not my area of expertise, so I will defer to the masses.

  162. Guess Pol Pot was wrong in just shooting pretty much everybody. His heart was in the right place, though.

  163. Fabius Maximus says:


    I would have to dig out the details, but it had very high deductibles

  164. Fabius Maximus says:

    #37 grim
    I walked into a pharmacy in Portugal last year. My kids had swimmers ear. We got ear drops over the counter (would have been perscription over here) and a set of batteries for my friends hearing aids for about $3. No prescriptions, no hassle.

  165. Fabius Maximus says:

    #44 A West

    “The US desperately needs wal-mart like actors in both healthcare ”

    We already have it, Walmart will fill generics for $0. Now thats a lost leader. I got my last vision test there as well.

  166. Fabius Maximus says:

    #50 A West

    In NYC it’s called Brighton Beach.

  167. I don’t shop at NJ WalMarts. They don’t have guns and ammo.

  168. Fabius Maximus says:

    I don’t post things I don’t believe in, or can’t back up. I have been in her for the last 7 years saying that th biggest issue this country faces is health costs and coverage. Its not a “western socailist” view. It is my hard look at a system that is broken in so many layers. I am so fed up with the BS arguments and attacks you throw up against me so you know what, I will just give you the sources and you can rail against them. Nice piece from 2009

  169. Fabius Maximus says:

    #117 ExPat

    I remember when Freedy was just a little Pesche!

  170. Fabius Maximus says:

    #124 Chi

    My big problem is that, Mrs Fabius has seconded my Kinde DX, for book lending under Amazon Prime.
    So now my regular Amazon recomendations are all RomCom inspired!

  171. Fabius Maximus says:

    #131 Lib
    ” I used to be rock-ribbed. Now I just eat too many ribs.”

    That could be post of the year, but for me it does not compete with Chi’s ;

  172. Fabius Maximus says:

    #142 Eddie

    You forgot your

  173. Fabius Maximus says:

    #158 Commander Bob

    Great to see you back. We need our NENJ GTG to catch up.
    I have to disagree with your here. Scotus ruled in the most part in that they could not see away of resolving the issue within the Title 3 deadlines so they threw it back down to let the state/ Sec of State make the call. I see this as one of the many flaws of the Elcetoral College system. My own (socialist European) view is that in a race that tight the electoral college should have been split down the middle. While I understand that would have give Gore the win, it would have been the best result.

  174. Fabius Maximus says:


    Terrible tourny, even with theHun going out.

    Italy for the steal!

  175. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    Back in NJ. Lousy flight. Now I know why spouse won’t fly UAL.

  176. glute (178)-

    This year’s Euro is a great argument for creating some sort of off-season for players. These guys play year-round, non-stop, and the wear and tear is beginning to show.

  177. chicagofinance says:

    FabMax: what about this? MONEY! I rocked….

    chicagofinance says:
    December 31, 2011 at 3:32 pm
    Markets…..keep all your money at home. Do not invest internationally at all. You should have been positioned for this since the end of the summer once it was clear that Europe was a intractible sh1t storm.

  178. llort says:

    2nd last

  179. Libtard at home says:

    Good afternoon NJ.

  180. Anon E. Moose says:

    Hi Lib. I kind of like that you kept the moniker, if only to mock the inanity of whoever gave it to you. When dealing with real libtards in my own circle I find that even mild derision elicits the most entertaining responses. They simply MUST be smartest person in the room, and receive due homage for the same. Anything less creates quite a show.

  181. Brian says:

    Hey, they serve goose island IPA and hoegarden at yankee stadium! Sweet who knew? Go yankees!

  182. Fabius Maximus says:

    #183 Chi

    The problem with that call is that, it was wrong. Not all markets are in the toilet. AsiaPac is on a tear. There is a very simple play which is watch the Japanese companies diversify/replace their supply chain after the earthquake. Places like Thailand have their manufacturing plants runing full capacity.

    Also bringing everything domestic gives you a diversity issue. But hey, that doesn’t mater because your making money.

  183. Fabius Maximus says:

    #187 Moose

    That describes a lot of people in here that don’t nescessarily lean left, yourself included.

  184. Anon E. Moose says:

    Fab [189];

    So what are you doing today? Business or pleasure?

  185. Commanderbobnj says:

    RE: Max:”. says :..#158 Commander Bob

    “…Great to see you back. We need our NENJ GTG to catch up.
    I have to disagree with your here. Scotus ruled in the most part in that they could not see away of resolving the issue within the Title 3 deadlines so they threw it back down to let the state/ Sec of State make the call. I see this as one of the many flaws of the Elcetoral College system. My own (socialist European) view is that in a race that tight the electoral college should have been split down the middle. While I understand that would have give Gore the win, it would have been the best result…”

    CommanderBob sez:
    Thank you for the Greetings Max, As I have indicated on a prior occasion, I am usually lurking in the background— I would truly like to attend whenever Grim decides to have a GTG this year … also would love to see and talk to Gary, ‘Clot’, the ‘libtard family’, Scribe and all the rest of the Old Crowd.—- The GTG could be maybe arranged down in Hoboken again…. Two of my children & their families live there now so I visit occasionally anyway….

    Concerning what you said above, IMHO, that Gore/Bush election was a fluke in U.S. history anyway …… Gave the Electorial College a good test …. probably will never happen again for a hundred years (Assuming if this country is still around !!) Besides, almost everyone has a different opinion on the arguments and the results of that time —- It doesn’t matter anymore —getting our armed forces forever out of that Middle east hellhole area NOW is most important !
    ——–Both the on-going financial and the unnecessary literal & actual bleeding of our Nation is at stake

    PS: /GRIM: Either last year or the year before, you had offered to trade a little of your extra Tomato crop for something that you may want. I Have an early copy (Ex Cond/Hardcopy/w pap.cover) of who you call “The Boss” that I have no practical use of …. Interested ?

  186. Brian says:

    I thought they said it was supposed to be hot today.

  187. Fabius Maximus says:

    #191 Moose

    Bit of both but mainly hiding from the heat.

  188. Anon E. Moose says:

    Fab [193];

    You’re incorrect. I tend to like the W.C. Fields motto: “Never smarten up a sucker or wisen up a chump.” Plus the truism that ‘you can shear a sheep several times, but skin him only once’ makes me want to profit, again and again, for example from the type of person who needs a picture of a $10 bill on the register to make change.

  189. Bebo says:

    Hoegaarden smells like old gym socks.

  190. reinvestor101 says:

    >>>Pete says:
    June 29, 2012 at 11:01 pm

    Is this reinvestor101 satire? Which is satire to begin with I MIGHT add,,,,<<<

    Why in the HELL are you asking someone else about ME?? I have a short enough fuse as it is and this is the sort of thing that pisses me off. It reminds me of a liberal/RINO/wuss punk tactic. NEVER ASK SOMEONE ELSE ABOUT ME. If you want to know something, go to the damn source like a man.

  191. Essex says:

    196. OK, aren’t you a housefrau from Pennsyvania ?

  192. yo says:

    I was going to stay for the weekend in my 2nd home in Atlantic County.Came home at 12 am last night from Revel.At 1 am,a tornado like storm hit my town.What an experience,house was shaking,rain pouring.This morning down trees and down power lines all over.They don’t expect power to come back for days.I bailed out and came back North.My heart goes to the people affected by this storm

  193. seif says:

    for Gary/Fast Eddie

    BTW: If your “emergency debt crisis” plan includes huge tax breaks for the rich, at least offer me a pony.

  194. Brian says:

    You’re a knuclehead meat you know that?

    Bebo says:
    June 30, 2012 at 3:26 pm
    Hoegaarden smells like old gym socks.

  195. reinvestor101 says:

    >>>Essex says:
    June 30, 2012 at 6:16 pm

    196. OK, aren’t you a housefrau from Pennsyvania ?<<<

    People like you make me want to cuss. You're damn lucky that there's a filter on this damn board. I got your housefrau wuss.

Comments are closed.