“All else equal, higher mortgage rates do depress housing demand.”

From Forbes:

When Will Rising Mortgage Rates Hurt The Housing Market?

The Longer-Term Impact of Sustained Rate Increases

Even if the immediate impact of mortgage rate spikes is small – aside from the huge effect on refinancing – shouldn’t sustained rate increases should depress housing activity? Again, recent history tells a more complicated story. Since 1999, mortgage purchase applications and all measures of sales activity – NAR pending home sales, NAR existing home sales, and Census new home sales – have actually been higher when mortgage rates were higher. Sales prices were also the same level or higher (depending on the sales price index) when mortgage rates were higher compared to periods of lower rates. Of all the measures of housing activity, only refinancing applications were lower during periods of higher mortgage rates.

Here’s the missing piece of the puzzle: over the past decade and a half, mortgage rates have been higher when the economy was doing better. Since 1999, the correlation between the monthly unemployment rate – a good, if imperfect, measure of how the economy is doing overall – and the 30-year fixed rate was -0.8, making it a very strong relationship.

Furthermore, every measure of housing activity (except refinancing activity) improved when the overall economy did better. That means that a stronger economy is associated with BOTH higher mortgage rates AND more sales, higher home prices, and more home-purchase mortgage applications. That’s why these measures of housing activity go up when mortgage rates are higher.

If we statistically remove the effect of changes in the overall economy (by including the unemployment rate as a control in a simple statistical regression), then we see exactly what we’d expect: mortgage applications, sales, and home prices are all lower when mortgage rates are higher. In other words: all else equal, higher mortgage rates do depress housing demand.

This entry was posted in Economics, Housing Recovery, Mortgages. Bookmark the permalink.

101 Responses to “All else equal, higher mortgage rates do depress housing demand.”

  1. anon (the good one) says:

    @MotherJones: Only 24% of Americans know that retirees receive more from Medicare than they pay in. (41% think they receive less!) http://t.co/18LsJ4R62E

  2. grim says:

    Good day for the Affordable Healthcare Act in NJ..

    AETNA pulls out of the exchange

    Trader Joes to end coverage for part timers

    Barnabas lays off staff – cites ACA

  3. chicagofinance says:

    The End Is Nigh (Boogie Down Day Care Edition):
    A couple was arrested in The Bronx for allegedly overseeing a large narcotics operation out of their day-care center, officials said.

    Johanna Vasquez and her husband Gregorio Hanley, were busted Wednesday when authorities allegedly found cash and drugs worth more than $300,000 at the Fun World Childcare center in Parkchester.

    Authorities raided the center, where they said they seized 300 grams of cocaine hidden in a child’s Hot Wheels lunch bag, $20,000 in cash stashed in a kitchen cabinet, more than a kilo of cocaine and 1,000 oxycodone pills.

    Cops said they also found a loaded 9 mm pistol at a stash location across the street.
    “The scope of the trafficking operation makes it all the more horrifying that it used as cover a fully operational day care center,” said Special Narcotics Prosecutor Bridget Brennan.

    The couple, whose day-care operation was actually licensed, was slapped with charges including selling and possessing a controlled substance and endangering the welfare of a child.

  4. Fast Eddie says:

    Here’s the missing piece of the puzzle: over the past decade and a half, mortgage rates have been higher when the economy was doing better.

    You mean, two part time jobs will not qualify a person to purchase a house in a prestigious town? And of course, 5 digit property taxes are simply a nuisance and don’t really count.

  5. Fast Eddie says:

    grim [2],

    Does anyone really understand the ACA? I’ll admit, it’s one of the most confusing things and I’m really clueless trying to comprehend this monster.

  6. grim says:

    5 – Sure – The lobbyists and industry interests that wrote it probably have a very good understanding of it.

  7. JJ says:

    Jewish lighting strikes Jersey Shore

    You now damm well someone is having a great yom kippur.

    Pure genius. Flood does not cover damage to store, wait almost a year then set it up on fire to collect and even better do it night before yom kippur when all jews are atoned for any sins the prior year. I love it

  8. Anthony's Weiner says:

    7. I’ve been a very bad boy this year.

  9. grim says:

    What are the odds I can get to Wembley for the Pink Floyd show on Saturday?

  10. 30 year realtor says:

    JJ #7 – Is it possible that you are as big an a$$hole in real life as you appear to be on the internet?

  11. JSMC says:


    I dunno…it doesn’t sound too far fetched. The only hang up is that the fire was started underneath a Kohr Bros., which is a chain, so unless the franchisee is responsible for flood insurance, they have no reason to burn it down.

  12. nwnj says:

    Anyone ever eat at this place? It looks pretty cool.


  13. chicagofinance says:

    wait for clot to respond….

    nwnj says:
    September 13, 2013 at 9:43 am
    Anyone ever eat at this place? It looks pretty cool.


  14. chicagofinance says:

    I live down here……more than one person said it, except it was more Mafia lightning….

    30 year realtor says:
    September 13, 2013 at 9:24 am
    JJ #7 – Is it possible that you are as big an a$$hole in real life as you appear to be on the internet?

  15. chicagofinance says:

    Question….now that I am in the market for a car…..I have never bought or leased a new car in my life … EVER….it kills me to even consider it.

    However, I am really hesitating this time because I don’t want to get screwed with a Sandy car…..any opinions? Does “Certified” really buy me any assurance?

  16. Juice Box says:

    Fire Started on the Boardwalk according to this witness. Perhaps a cigarette tossed into a garbage can?


  17. Juice Box says:

    re # 15 – chi do a short lease or trade one in.


  18. anon (the good one) says:

    apparently there are marriage conselors who never been married. and financial counselors who have little real life experience and have difficulty flying domestcally or buying a basic, simple asset.

  19. Essex says:

    Cars are awesome ChiFi. Don’t be skeeered.

  20. Juice Box says:

    Chi – “Certified” is not the same as “Guaranteed”


  21. grim says:

    15 – I’d be comfortable with anything that came with a bumper-to-bumper extended manufacturer warranty as part of the ‘certification’.

    You could always get a carfax and track down where the car came from. My BMW X3 came from Greenwich, CT – even though I bought it through Paul Miller.

  22. Juice Box says:

    X3 is a Chick car.

  23. chicagofinance says:

    You just walk around thinking that everything takes care of itself. You deride all the “capitalists” out there, but it is clear by these comments that you do not think personal responsibility is important. At least you are consistent.

    Has it ever occurred to you that I consider myself intellectually curious? I am asking questions here, because I want to keep current and uncover new solutions. It is the strength of internet communities. I have strong opinions, but I am open minded and am always willing to accept new information.

    Your comments speak volumes about your wisdom, introspection, and frankly, sophistication.

    anon (the good one) says:
    September 13, 2013 at 10:19 am
    apparently there are marriage conselors who never been married. and financial counselors who have little real life experience and have difficulty flying domestcally or buying a basic, simple asset.

  24. chicagofinance says:

    I see this offer up to 75K-80K on cars with 20-50K……

    grim says:
    September 13, 2013 at 10:29 am
    15 – I’d be comfortable with anything that came with a bumper-to-bumper extended manufacturer warranty as part of the ‘certification’.

  25. chicagofinance says:

    I really think this is interesting…….thx

    Juice Box says:
    September 13, 2013 at 10:10 am
    re # 15 – chi do a short lease or trade one in.

  26. joyce says:


    86.Brian says:
    September 12, 2013 at 7:02 pm
    Fcuk you.

    joyce says:
    September 12, 2013 at 6:58 pm
    Heard Christie is on the scene… for a photo op & campainging, I’m sure. Has he visited any other areas where there was a fire?

  27. nwnj says:


    Not to mention, this is a guy who champions a newport smoker with a law degree overhauling an entire healthcare system.

  28. zieba says:


    I have gone the lease trade in route for my last two vehicles. It’s not for everyone, as it is a bit of a hunt/hassle but the savings are there.

    Both times, my experiences have been positive. We’ve just recently gotten into a ’13 truck – okay, CUV – which the fiance wanted to try. Prior owner got into the lease on impulse this past January quoting wanting it “for the snow” (putting a significant amount down).

    Prior to this we had a sports coupe which we’ve gotten from a woman who sold her NJ property to move to the UWS, and did not want to take the car for obvious reasons. These 350 horses cost me about as much as getting into a base Corolla (she low-balled herself).

    You should peruse leasetrader’s listings to see if there is anything suitable to your situation. I would go a step further and suggest that if you’re dealing in cars under warranty backed by a dealer, bypass the middleman and go direct to private party.

    There’s a ’11 Volvo XC60 in Red Bank right now. 24 month term, > 1K miles per month, $400’s. The only caveat, which applies across the board, is that the lease transfer process can be lengthy @ 2-6 weeks.

  29. Painhrtz - Disobey! says:

    chi if you go certified get one with 100K bumper to bumper, and paid for maintenance will not be an issue. My only off lease car was a 95 pathfinder that was an impulse purchase back in the days of no carfax. Traded it a year later but there are enough tools out there now that if you can’t get the history on a car you probably should stay away.

  30. grim says:

    Love my X3 – Have the last year they made the M-Sport package with the stiff suspension (it was sissied up the year after, most owners complained the ride was uncomfortable and rough). At this time I got it, it was the closest think to an M-car available as an SUV. Got a great deal on the purchase, car only had 20k miles and was essentially brand new. Warranty out to 100k miles, and I actually got a chance to use it too.

    The alternative was a Laguna Seca Blue M3 – problem was that it was a convertible, and I didn’t care for the look of the car with the top up. Couldn’t find a decent coupe in good shape anywhere.

  31. 1987 Condo says:

    Cars, got burned by some used cars in 80’s..only have bought new and leased for first time as well. I look to hold for 10-15 years

    2006- TL
    2011- Cruze (lease)

    I leased the cruze (based a lot on 10 airbags and safety at time, used by my son to go to HS) as a hedge to quality and gas prices, in retro, I should have just bought it, I probably will buy afte lease as my daughter start driving and I do not want to buy a new car for that….plus only has 10,000 miles and I know the original owner.

  32. JJ says:

    I try to buy direct from owners a car under full warranty with low mileage and clean carfax and pay cash driveway and get owner to gift it to you.

    Got a jeep once with 4k miles. Auctions have dried up. The internet have beat it up, spreads are lower and dealers are keeping good trade ins.

    I also like orphan cars, like a BMW traded into a toyota dealership etc. For instance I got my Caddie that was traded into a Chevy dealership. Only Caddie on lot. Same Caddie in a Caddie dealer was like 1-2k more. But not many people walk into a Chevy used car lot looking for a caddie with 5k miles as it was priced a good 10-20K higher than any other car on lot.

    Also hot women who flirt get cars for 20% less then men or ugly women. No offense CHIF, hire a spitzer girl to do deal for you. Also she can take care of you after you cut check to relieve stress

  33. JJ says:

    Who leases a cruz? It is so cheap and GM was running zero percent financing for five years back in 2011-2013 plus that car will run a long time longer than a BMW.

    No offense to BMWs but most folk once it breaks 60k the original owner gets stick of maint as it is sky high. For instance my BMW that got flooded need four new tires in a year or two that is like $1,200 bucks. My wifes gm vehicle four tires at Pep boys are like $350 bucks GM is no driving machine. But at higher miles a cruze or malibu is cheap to fixe. A 7 series tune up, oil change, battery and four new tires will bankrupt you My friend got like a 5k bill for that that my old ford got all that done for $500 bucks

  34. 1987 Condo says:

    #33..I had not bought a GM and did not fully trust them, but got a good zero down lease (in theory)…actually a pretty good car, handles great!!!!!!!! 25 mpg around town.

  35. grim says:

    I’m at 120k on my X3 and on my 3rd set of tires and 3rd set of brakes (second set was done under 50k under factory maintenance = free). I drive aggressive rubber, and I think overall wear is good, all things considered. There are no BMW specific tires – tires are tires – good tires cost the same as good tires – regardless of car. My 255/45/18s cost the same whether it’s a BMW, a Ford, a Nissan, etc. A really good set of name brand low profile tires on big rims costs a thousand bucks installed, that’s pretty much going rate.

    New set of tires every year? Sounds like your alignment was off or you were doing 40k a year.

  36. joyce says:

    Whistleblower lawsuit
    16 Major Firms May Have Received Early Data From Thomson Reuters

    Read more: http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/blogs/taibblog/16-major-firms-may-have-received-early-data-from-thomson-reuters-20130905#ixzz2emsU6R72
    Follow us: @rollingstone on Twitter | RollingStone on Facebook

  37. 1987 Condo says:

    #35..I review tires at Tirerack.com….then buy at Costco

  38. zieba says:

    Since I know some of you are car guys:

    The CUV is a loaded ’13 Ford Escape. I have to say that I am completely blown away by the quality of Ford’s global platform. We originally got into it just to see what living with a compact utility is like so I wasn’t expecting much, and like all take-overs its a matter of happenstance. However, the fit, finish and tactile quality of cabin materials are IMO, ahead of the Infiniti I got out of (or the ’09 X3 I have access to from time to time). Soft-touch plastics where you need them, fashionable high gloss accents elsewhere (think prius), and all the tech goodies available on higher tier cars. The parks itself, steals wifi signal and turns self into a hotspot, power hatch, has panoramic glass roof, blindspot detection. I can also report that SYNC makes for a very engaging and intuitive screen interface, which is in stark contrast to the low-res, cumbersome and “dumb” displays of other brands. All this on a “domestic”?! Impressed.

  39. 1987 Condo says:

    #39..Alan Mulally…

  40. zieba says:

    My submission: http://cnj.craigslist.org/cto/4058359115.html

    Offer 395 and push to have it detailed.

    Keep in mind that lease acquisition/disposition fees need to be amortized over the life of the lease. The shorter the lease the larger the impact on your true cost.

  41. Juice Box says:

    Speaking of cars, I was filling my tires this morning and I turned my truck around to fill up the other side and I backed into the air-pump unit. Bonehead move of mine, and I can’t blame the wife on this one. Now I have a nice dent in the hatch.

    Anyone ever use Paintless dent repair?

  42. chicagofinance says:

    That is cool, but I guess you don’t know me. I consider cars a complete waste of time and money. I grew up in the city, would rather walk, and certainly know how to park a car on the streets. I would drive a 3-7 year old Honda Civic if I could, but it creates the wrong impression for a 45 year old financial planner in the suburbs. The whole thing makes me sick……..my biggest car thrill is leaving the car at home and getting home piss drunk, or else finding free street parking knowing that my friends have dropped $20-$40…..

    Juice Box says:
    September 13, 2013 at 11:47 am
    Chi – Short term

  43. HouseWhineWine says:

    7) Really, really offensive. Seriously offensive. Shame on you.

  44. Juice Box says:

    re # 43 – Yet you made the move to the burbs 7 years ago, so deal with it. Since I have moved I do miss all of the free exercise walking everywhere too. I am just getting used to driving everywhere. You may see me wandering around Red Bank this winter, that will be me getting my exercise. Sigh, I may need to get a dog. That will force me to go on long walks. There are lots of parks and woods and walking trails etc around here too. I think I will start walking more once all the bugs and deer ticks die off.

  45. Anon E. Moose says:

    Cyber attacks continue?

    Much weirdness… archives (dot) gov compromised?

  46. chicagofinance says:

    I try to leave my car at work and do all my errands in Red Bank by walking. I’ll even walk to the Dunkin’ Donuts at CR520/NJ35 across the train tracks. I leave coins on the tracks to get flattened and give it to my son….

    Juice Box says:
    September 13, 2013 at 12:08 pm
    I think I will start walking more once all the bugs and deer ticks die off.

  47. JJ says:

    Jewish Lightening happens all the time. My favorite ones is the Scobbee diner in Great Neck a 24 hour a day diner burnt to the ground with no customers inside or watress’s or cooks. Only person inside was an ilegal bus boy that right before fire someone called INS and he was deported before he could be questioned.

    Scobbe had a run down diner in Great Neck and Little Neck. He used money to make one in Little Neck a great diner and he had a car lot waiting to buy his lot in Great neck.
    Other one was a massive steak place in Great Neck right to ground in middle of night. Then a guy in Mafia built a massive place on the plot shortly afterwards which also mysterious changed hands a week after being voted the number one restaurant on LI in Zagats. Other ones I saw a huge bowling alley with stores above this one Italian night before a huge target was finalzing plans to build a store but needed a large lot.

    All the ones in the bronx growing up, they were just lighteing them up. Back in 70s the old Jewish landlords burned more houses that napalm in Vietnam

    So it got the nickname Jewish lightening. So any time a building mysteriously burns we call it that.

    It is funny, burn baby burn disco inferno. The roof the roof the roof is on fire. They were all written by DJ Goldstein.

    Happy Holidays to all my great jewish friends. I am sending out a groupon bens kosher delli coupon in a lttile while.

    BTW I could be jewish you know. I did date a jewish girl once.

    HouseWhineWine says:
    September 13, 2013 at 12:05 pm

    7) Really, really offensive. Seriously offensive. Shame on you.

  48. JJ says:

    You are getting a little fugezzy in your old age. I like my planners eating steaks, driving V8 cars and chomping on cigars. Fruitty moped riding red bank planners who think bent pennies make great gifts do I really want doing my deals.

    I need leg breakers not leg crossers!!!

    chicagofinance says:
    September 13, 2013 at 12:21 pm

    I try to leave my car at work and do all my errands in Red Bank by walking. I’ll even walk to the Dunkin’ Donuts at CR520/NJ35 across the train tracks. I leave coins on the tracks to get flattened and give it to my son….

  49. anon (the good one) says:

    seems like the 10% rule applies to everything

    @reihan: The top 10 percent of drinkers consumes 50 percent of the total alcohol consumed. (http://t.co/9v3GHOFJo5)

  50. chicagofinance says:


    JJ says:
    September 13, 2013 at 12:22 pm
    So it got the nickname Jewish lightening. So any time a building mysteriously burns we call it that.

  51. Firestormik says:

    I found leasetrader is more expensive than to get a new one.
    For example, check this one out and compare with what Juce box sent you

  52. Nomad says:

    Chi – Used auto VIN search:


    I talked to Toyota and Lexus – their claim was their cars could not be certified with a salvage / flood title. Make the dealer put in writing that if any time up to XX months after you buy car you find out it is a salvage / flood title they will buy it back for what you paid including fees, tax …

    Also – if you want to buy new, buy the last day of Sept as they are trying to hit their quarterly sales #s or better yet, wait until last day of year – dealer more likely to sell a car for a few thousand below cost if they are close to hitting annual volume (big mfg rebates). Good deals now on Acura TL – safe, reliable and cheap to maintain with oil changes every 10k. You might not like style but car is bulletproof.

    Edmunds.com has good info.

  53. Firestormik says:

    I’ve got my lease from these guys. Nobody belives I pay $124 a month with 0 down. Yes, it’s a Sentra but it gets me from A to B without a problem

  54. Nomad says:

    Car buying con’t

    If you buy last day of Sept send email to sales mgr or internet sales department 30 min before dealer opens. Include your ph # so they don’t think you are a troll. Send email to several dealers. One always bites.

  55. Anon E. Moose says:

    57 — Maybe I missed something, but I thought we were discussing buying an off-lease used car. If you want to rent a car, call Enterprise.

  56. Libtard in the City says:

    If you guys weren’t aware, you can get a free carfax report online pretty easily. Google it.

    I agree with JJ about BMW maintenance as well. My dad had one and sold it around 60K due to maintenance costs. And this was back in the 80s.

  57. Dissident HEHEHE says:

    Listen to JJ he knows about cars:


  58. Firestormik says:

    Enterprise rent would cost you at least 450 a month

  59. JJ says:

    Certified is a big scam and not worth the money.

    Cars such as BMW and Cadillac all the maint is included anyhow. As long as you know it is a good car with a clean carfax all the certification does is provide an extended warranty.

    You can buy these on-line. Now if you want a factory extended warranty any dealer can sell it even ones on internet and no standard mark up. You can go shopping later on a few months before original expires.

    Also watch out that my BMW for instance that was tagged certified was not certified. BMW of Greenwich when they listed car for sale went into carfax and put in report it was certified. They never filed paper work. In fact when I bought it the car had the huge certified sticker on windshield. They never entered into system which means I did not get extended warranty. Oddly that 100 point check or whatever, it is honor system. Anyone who is a car dealership as long as car meets criteria such as one owner, no accidents under a certain milage and still under original warranty just types into computer it is certified. It is BS

  60. joyce says:

    I’m not in the market, but some of those lease deals seem cheap. Is there a catch? Do the details differ at all from a typical lease?

  61. 1987 Condo says:

    #63..I have read that they rarely actually check and “certify” cars that they sell as Certified…they have dome the math and take a business risk to warranty it and do not feel it is cost justified to actually perform the 100+ point inspections….the “upcharge” covers costs down the line if they come up…

  62. zieba says:

    You must’ve missed something. There was no talk about buying off lease. Reload and reacquire target.

    Setting aside the fact the promotional nature of your posts, you’re missing the very thing which makes take-overs attractive:
    -the very short term monthly nature of leases, which may be suitable for a stop-gap situation
    -the savings realized from the prior owner putting down a chunk of cash or trading in, leaving you to pay only a portion of the depreciation being used

    It’s not something you do long term, but it works very well for its intended purpose.

    The page you linked has a “2013 Nissan Altima” on special. No trim level, no features given. Wouldn’t you want to at least know the trim level? Still further below in small print tax/title/paper/doc fees. This seems no different than the usual come-on to get people in through the door.

  63. grim says:

    What are the costs of trading a lease through leasetrader anyway?

    Say for example, I see a 911 convertible with 4 months left, owner wants out.

    I figure I’ll take over those 4 months and be able to drive around in a $100k car for a few months for a couple of grand.

    At a minimum, I’m paying full registration price, to register the car only for a few months (ding), but am I not also paying sales tax?

  64. grim says:

    I was very satisfied with the BMW CPO program – getting repairs done at Paul Miller was absolutely painless. No worries about whether or not something was covered or not.

    Under warranty (but over 50k miles) they fixed:

    Transfer Case
    Air Conditioning unit in dash
    Coolant Level Sensor

    The third was minor but the first two? Easily 6 grand between the two.

    That said, I absolutely did not pay a $6k premium over market for my car, I got a very good deal.

    If I purchased private party, and purchased an aftermarket warranty, I’d have paid more, and aftermarket warranties suck.

  65. 1987 Condo says:

    #69..oh, I think you are always safe that you are covered financially, some folks may think that they shouldn’t even experience a problem as it should have been caught in the “inspection” process.

  66. grim says:

    70 – Everything breaks.

    I loved dropping the X3 off for service. Both times I got to drive either a brand new 5 series for a week, and the second I got a brand new 3 series coupe. Shit, the loaner cars were nicer than mine, it was like a free car vacation.

  67. JJ says:

    Depends – My BMW was sold originally by BMW of Greenwich. At 30,000 miles a BMW gets a complete check out top to bottom as part of regular maint.

    My car I bought at 32K miles. So BMW of Greenwich felt it was redundant to do the CPO when owner traded it in as they did a complete check a little over two months earlier.

    Then CPO is on the car and a decent fee. They tagged it in Carfax as CPO in case buyers look, then put in ad it is CPO, then splash it across windshield it is CPO. If they sell it and send it to auction etc like my car. It is hard to unring the bell. If I had sold my car and it was not flooded out. It would have appeared in car fax as if it was a CPO with a warranty still on car etc. When in fact it was not.
    I got 6k off my BMW as it was not a CPO and it was backdoor at auction. I got same service at BMW and got lucky with BMW as it had a small repair after warranty expired and BMW has a program for repairs within a short time frame 30-90 days or something they cover it anyhow.

    I still got screwed on car as I paid 32k for it and insurance only paid me 19K for it. I had car almost four years but only drove it 4k miles. So the damm car cost me over 13k to drive a lousy 4k miles.

    Meanwhile my Mercedes that got killed. I paid $7,500 in 1992, had around 10K worth of receipts over 20 years and got the same 19K as my BMW. I got paid $1,500 to own car for 20 years!!!

    Late model BMWs I love. But they hold their value very well hard to get cheap used and still under warranty and the maint is expensive.

    My Caddie for instance gets killed on depreciation. I only paid 26K for a 2011 CTS in 2013 with only 5k miles on it. And I got a free 43K mile warranty bumper to bumper with maint included and all oil changes etc and warranty runs through March 2015.

    BMW majority of cars sold are leases, most leases are 36 months. So you rarely ever see a BMW for sale under 3 years old. Caddies old folks often pay cash and GM does five years 100% financing at zero percent down so people rarely lease.

    My wifes truck she bought after sandy the monthly payment on a three year lease was same as monthly payment on a five year zero loan with a five year warranty . She went with five year as she did not like fact lease was same payment and she did not own car. BMW never offers long term zero down deals, usually lease deals.

    I almost bought at this place Pepe Caddilac up in ritzy super rich Scaresdale NY. That guy had tons cars 3-10 years old with under 10K miles. He said he has old rich folk wo has houses in Palm Beach, AZ and Scarsdale who have cars all over sitting indoors and having six cars for two people they rarely get driven.

    My Caddie was bought new March 2011, Put in heated indoor garage for winter storage then summer 2012 guy traded it in. Guy was crazy rich and old as I saw his address. Screw Lease trader. You just need to find some old rich kook who barely drives and buys new cars all the time. The caddie I got was traded in on a loaded 2013 Camaro SS Convert by an 82 year old man. I guess for his florida house. Anyone wants a used Caddie with super low miles go to Pepe.
    1987 Condo says:
    September 13, 2013 at 1:33 pm

    #63..I have read that they rarely actually check and “certify” cars that they sell as Certified…they have dome the math and take a business risk to warranty it and do not feel it is cost justified to actually perform the 100+ point inspections….the “upcharge” covers costs down the line if they come up…

  68. JJ says:

    Funny how people who got offended by jewish jokes drive german cars.
    grim says:
    September 13, 2013 at 2:25 pm

    70 – Everything breaks.

    I loved dropping the X3 off for service. Both times I got to drive either a brand new 5 series for a week, and the second I got a brand new 3 series coupe. Shit, the loaner cars were nicer than mine, it was like a free car vacation.

  69. JJ says:

    Remember in theshow Entourage, one of the main characters,
    Ari Gold gets called out for driving a BMW when a supporting character, Bob Ryan wouldn’t get into his car and quoted, “I’m not getting into that Nazi sled.”

  70. zieba says:

    re: lease trade costs

    leasetrader fees are roughly $350 to advertise/ $350 to get into advertised lease. Yikes! I sought out my deals on Craigslist.

    -registration. $85?
    -leasing company transfer fees – these vary a good deal. Infiniti wanted $300, Ford is a very fair $75, other premiums are north of the $300 Nissan financial charges.
    -lease disposition fees – from $200 on the budget end of things to $595 for BMW/Merc
    -tax is either calculated up front and rolled into cap cost at the purchase state’s rate, or payable monthly on the portion used in the state driven; NJ is the latter and 7% is tacked on to each remaining payment

    For the kind of toy you can’t drive on a regular basis, probably $1K round trip; even higher if you use leasetrader. Keep in mind contacting the selling party merely opens a channel of communication, personal circumstances may warrant taking a hit on if getting out is a priority.

  71. anon (the good one) says:

    from Barron’s blog

    “SEPTEMBER 13, 2013 2:41 P.M.
    Ed Carney wrote:
    The Iphone 5C is not targeted for China, where phones are saturated and the great race for CHEAP PHONES to the bottom Apple wants NO PART OF. Instead, it is priced to target the fastest growing Mobile segment ALL OVER THE WORLD, that is KIDS 10-18! Look around you, how many kids, very young ones are already using their parents smart phones in restaurant, trains, everywhere, how long do you think they get their own phones in this fast evolving world? Now lets imagine walking into a ATT store in US or China Telecom store in China, the 13 year old girl sees 20 generic and sometimes GIGANTIC Android phones (Add the giant watch too now) and in the corner , she sees a brand new Iphone in 5 colors including PINK. WHICH ONE DO YOU THINK SHE PICKS? Do you think she worries more about the Qualcomm Snap dragon processor or she can get a Pink phone with a Yellow Case? This is Apple’s genius and and everybody completely missed it. There were NEVER interested or never will be interested in the great race to the bottom by competing on Price in China!”

  72. Firestormik says:

    Joyce/ Zebra,
    I’m not in automotive business. I’m in IT so there is no point for me to advertise them
    There is no catch, I believe due to volume they are able to keep cost down.
    Here is what I’ve got in a quote for my Sentra SR without convenience package

    Payment Details
    Term 39
    Base Payment 121.53
    Total Payment 121.53
    Purchase Option 11,469.10
    MSRP 18,310.00
    Est. Miles Per Year 12,000
    Disposition Fee 395.00
    Excess Mileage Charge 0.15

    Amount Due at Signing
    1st Month Payment 121.53
    Acquisition Fee 595.00
    Fees & Insurance 300.00
    Total Inception Fees 1,016.53
    Total Cash Required on Delivery 1,016.53

    Delivered to the door and real difference was 3$ a month (dealer added mats) and I believe $85 documentation fee was also added by the dealer

    I’ve also got a quote for Maxima SV as follow at about the same time
    “$329 with $329 + $350 + tax due at signing for a 2011 Nissan Maxima SV Premium with Tech Package”

  73. Statler Waldorf says:

    I’m fairly certain Apple does not hold the patent for the pink cell phone case.

  74. grim says:

    78 – Juicy doesn’t have the patent on writing on sweatpants asses either – but they seem to be doing pretty good with that.

  75. Anon E. Moose says:

    Grim [79]: FTW!

  76. Anon E. Moose says:

    Single at 50: ‘Men hate me being brainier than them,’ says KATE MULVEY

    Yeah. Right. I’m sure that’s the reason. Especially considering such a winning personality and rugged good looks…

  77. Juice Box says:

    re # 76 – Plenty of Cheap Pink Androids in China.


  78. grim says:

    80 – This is precisely why I’ll never be wealthy.

    It would have never occurred to me that writing provocative shit on a 10 year olds ass would actually be a brilliant marketing move.

  79. chicagofinance says:

    The End Is Nigh (Entire NJREReport Apologize to JJ Edition):

    Jersey Shore boardwalk fire ‘suspicious’
    By Natalie O’Neill and Lia Eustachewich

    A raging fire that gutted more than 30 Jersey Shore boardwalk businesses and took all night to put out looks “suspicious” — and is being investigated by prosecutors, sources said.

    Investigators are eyeing arson because it was a midday fire with no bad weather and no obvious cause or injuries, sources told ABC News.

  80. anon (the good one) says:

    82. go back and re-read yesterdays and todays posts by Grim and me on this topic. u r totally missing the point

  81. Hughesrep says:


    Lit smoke on oily paper towels will start a nice little starter fire next to a wooden structure.

  82. Fabius Maximus says:

    #35 grim

    My cousin had big issues with the tires on his M6. Only Dunlop made a tire for it and they were constantly on back order. Hit a pot hole and the car would sit in the shop for two weeks waiting for a $500 tire.

    My buddy had a Mini and dumped it on the year 4 anniversary when the free maintenance ran out. He wasn’t taking the risk.

  83. chicagofinance says:

    So unlike you….. and yes it is double-entendre

    Fabius Maximus says:
    September 14, 2013 at 12:28 am
    Offered without comment.

  84. Ben says:

    I’m fairly certain Apple does not hold the patent for the pink cell phone case.

    They may not hold the patent for it, but that doesn’t mean that they won’t file a lawsuit to try to get another maker to stop selling it.

  85. Grim says:

    You mean like Samsung infringing on Dyson’s patents?

    Can those guys come up with anything themselves?

  86. Grim says:

    “Samsung has many patent lawyers so I find it hard not to believe that this is a deliberate or utterly reckless infringement of our patent,” James Dyson said in the statement.

  87. Anon E. Moose says:

    Grim [91-92];

    How is it that Apple is getting their @ss handed to them be a vacuum cleaner company? [TIC]

  88. anon (the good one) says:

    @asymco: @duncanwilcox @carltongibson You can be sure of only one thing in life: that Apple does not give a rat’s ass what Wall Street thinks.

  89. anon (the good one) says:

    @asymco: iOS product ramps. http://t.co/TE2yMN4IU1

  90. anon (the good one) says:

    @omarjavaid: IDC: 87% Of Connected Devices By 2017 Will Be Tablets And Smartphones http://t.co/GeSSwEOpPz

  91. anon (the good one) says:

    @UVStaska: There are 42 million iPhones on China Mobile already. All of them stuck on GPRS/EDGE, no 3G http://t.co/eCFEP61l8D

  92. anon (the good one) says:

    @MMFlint: You’re probably worried how the top bankers who destroyed the world’s economy are doing 5 years later. Answer: great! http://t.co/JqCX5KbZke

  93. evildoc says:

    JJ’s hate and envy smell sweet.

    Just sayin’…

  94. Firestormik says:

    With Jobs gone, Apple will be the next BlackBerry in 3-5 years. Innovation is gone no matter what you try to show here

  95. Lauren says:

    Mumps Investigation Continues, D’Jais Reopens

    On Sunday, Sept. 8, County Health Department personnel immunized 32 D’Jais employees with the MMR (measles, mumps and rubella) vaccine; three additional employees were immunized on Sept. 11. On both occasions, several D’Jais employees also submitted immunization records that were evaluated for age appropriate MMR immunization.

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