From HousingWire:
Foreclosure filings down 1%, bank repos up 4%
Property foreclosure filings — default notices, scheduled auctions and bank repossessions — were reported on 115,830 properties in April, a 1% decline from the previous month and down 20% from April 2013.
RealtyTrac’s U.S. Foreclosure Market Report shows one in every 1,137 U.S. housing units with a foreclosure filing in April.
However, bank repossessions in April increased 4% from the previous month, although they were still down 14% from a year ago. There were a total of 30,056 bank repossessions nationwide in April.
Bank repossessions increased from the previous month in 26 states and were up from a year ago in 16 states, including New York (142% increase), Oregon (91% increase), New Jersey (58% increase), Illinois (55% increase), Indiana (52% increase), Maryland (45% increase), Connecticut (44% increase), California (27% increase), and Nevada (15% increase).
“The rise in bank repossessions in many states is a sign that those markets are working through the final remnants of foreclosures left over from the recent housing crisis,” said Daren Blomquist, vice president at RealtyTrac. “Many of these bank-owned homes are bottom-of-the-barrel properties in terms of location or condition, but they will provide some much-wanted inventory of homes for sale in some markets in the coming months. Investors and other buyers willing to do more extensive rehab will likely be best-suited for these incoming REOs.”
Final doom is imminent.
I mentioned this yesterday: What about the number of houses that had little to no equity to begin with and then were used as an ATM through refinancing? Hearing that woman on the train yesterday completely reminded me of not only the number of closings during the bubble, but the number of those cashing out for frivolous spending.
It may be true that the NJ foreclosures are concentrated in urban areas but below the surface, there are scores of suburban muppets hanging on with no other option but to come to the closing table with a check. I can’t imagine what it feels like to make a mortgage payment every month knowing that you are paying for a seriously depressed asset.
400K, 2bd/1.5bth. It really has no practical purpose. You can’t put a young family in it. Empty nesters? Someone’s going to move from a nice 4/2.5 and downsize to this? If you’re entering retirement, I’d go to a new carriage house in South Jersey before moving into this garage. This place needs a 30% discount and the sellers should thank G0d if someone bites.
http://www.trulia.com/property/1042817806-125-Bellair-Rd-Ridgewood-NJ-07450
Its OK though, the institutional investors and wealthy have secured their investment properties, now lending standards will be loosened and the average Joe can enter at an artificially inflated market.
This one sold for 560K in 2008; currently asking 559K. So, when it sells, the only question is: how much money did the current owners lose YOY? Ridgewood is bleeding wealth. Right? That’s what a realtor told me.
http://www.trulia.com/property/1055912843-944-Barnes-Dr-Ridgewood-NJ-07450
Do not project your white guilt on to me.
Michael says:
May 14, 2014 at 1:58 pm
So why are you jealous of government workers and people on welfare? Sorry, it was ripe for the taking. lol
Street Justice says:
May 14, 2014 at 8:48 am
Envy remains one of the most dangerous of the anti-social passions infecting the West
funnelcloud [4],
Rinse and repeat. The muppets are like a free cash machine. A casino where the “house” never loses. Confiscate their money and hand them a dead asset. It’s the best money laundering scheme ever invented. And it’s all legal… technically. Amazing, isn’t it?
grim,
unmod me.
Sold for 510K in 2008; currently asking 499.9K. When it sells, another loss. But it’s Ridgewood and prices only go up there. Right? Right? I said, right?
http://www.trulia.com/property/3118461340-672-Spring-Ave-Ridgewood-NJ-07450
Sold for 294K in 1997; current ask? 900K. Long term appreciation would have it in the low to mid 500s. Sure, they lined the walls in gold, right? Taxes are only $21,000. Prestige has a price.
http://www.trulia.com/property/3119310335-454-Stevens-Ave-Ridgewood-NJ-07450
Harvard’s Kennedy School of Government is now requiring all first year students to undergo a course titled “checking your privilege” as part of their orientation.
More proof that liberalism is a social disease:
http://townhall.com/columnists/ashleypratte/2014/05/15/check-your-privilege-at-the-doorharvards-new-orientation-requirement-n1838080
My privilege has checked out perfectly fine.
Sold for 732.5K in 2005; current ask is 695K. Keep dreaming, my pudgy muppets.
http://www.trulia.com/property/3070799008-237-Steilen-Ave-Ridgewood-NJ-07450
grim,
Apologize for your privilege!!
In an interview at the Peter G. Peterson Foundation Fiscal Summit on Wednesday afternoon, Governor Chris Christie (R-NJ) answered for the significant budget problems in New Jersey that continue to worsen on his watch.
Moderator Bob Schieffer of CBS News wasted no time questioning Christie’s strategy to combat the dismal economic reports coming out of the Garden State in recent weeks. “The news is not so good about New Jersey,” Schieffer said. “You’re facing a shortfall in your budget of $807 million, credit rating was recently downgraded again, there’s concern the state will be unable to make its pension payments, you’ve got low job growth when compared to some other states—so I guess I’ll just begin with a general question, where do you start? Can you fix this and can you do all of it at once?”
Recall that in 2012, Governor Christie told voters that he would change New Jersey’s economy and return it to a path of prosperity, but the facts point to more stagnation than progress. From March 2013 to March 2014, New Jersey ranked last in national job growth; it is currently the country’sfifth worst state economy; and for the sixth time during Christie’s tenure in office, Moody’s Investor Service has downgraded the state’s credit rating.
Christie defended the actions his administration has taken thus far, remarking that “the comeback we’ve made has been exceptional but not complete.”
The governor went on to blame—well, anyone but himself. “I’m trying in the last five years to fix problems that we’ve accumulated over the last 20,” Christie said.
14 -No, really, the doctor stuck his finger up my ass and said my privilege was absolutely perfect, nothing to worry about.
10 – Whats with all the refrigerators and freezers? Chest freezer in the dining room? That’s a new one.
Whats with all the refrigerators and freezers?
Body parts?
This house is nice. It looks like they used good materials in the rehab.
Fast Eddie says:
May 15, 2014 at 8:12 am
Sold for 294K in 1997; current ask? 900K. Long term appreciation would have it in the low to mid 500s. Sure, they lined the walls in gold, right? Taxes are only $21,000. Prestige has a price.
http://www.trulia.com/property/3119310335-454-Stevens-Ave-Ridgewood-NJ-07450
No one has ever told me to check my privilege and if one does, my response will be “why don’t you check it for me? I’ll just unzip my fly and you can check all you like.”
Of course, being a white guy, there isn’t that much privilege there. I’m not JJ.
Michael,
900K and I’m sticking AC units in the windows? Nice. (cough….) We don’t want the neighbors thinking we’re not prestigious, do we?
Here’s a great European vacation property for sale. If anyone is interested, I have contacts in the country.
http://www.cnbc.com/id/101674519
Parsippany, folks. Sold in 2007 for 325K; current ask is 279.9K. This one will go for less. No one is exempt. Multiply by 50,000 and that’s the number of d.ead asset payments being made month over month.
http://www.trulia.com/property/1042741631-15-Allentown-Rd-Parsippany-NJ-07054
These people are liberals in name only…..what they really are is fascists…..
Fast Eddie says:
May 15, 2014 at 8:21 am
Harvard’s Kennedy School of Government is now requiring all first year students to undergo a course titled “checking your privilege” as part of their orientation.
More proof that liberalism is a social disease:
http://townhall.com/columnists/ashleypratte/2014/05/15/check-your-privilege-at-the-doorharvards-new-orientation-requirement-n1838080
I do feel for these people. Regardless of whether they bought these houses during the frenzy due to misplaced judgment, bad timing or coercement, they are f.cuked either way. Most feel they have no other choice but to keep making payments and I understand their thinking. Whether they have no other assets, I get it; they have a sense of responsibility. I’m sure, though, they thought about walking away and mailing in the keys.
Gary, Some homes purchased during the bubble have been renovated or expanded and justify prices that you deem unrealistic. Not everyone is a fat muppet, just most of them.
30 year,
I understand that. I know that some are renovated. :) But yes, most or chubby muppets. lol!
23 – Purchaser of that house wasn’t strapped, the mortgage at time of purchase was only $200k – which means he put down $125k on a $325k purchase. No Helocs.
Sure, he got burned, but he bought in 2007, when we were screaming not to. He won’t be bringing cash to closing.
“1. The truth is that top Republicans have so little regard for ordinary workers that they can’t even manage to pretend otherwise. Case in point: on the last Labor Day, Eric Cantor declared,
Today, we celebrate those who have taken a risk, worked hard, built a business and earned their own success.
Yep: even on Labor Day, Cantor had nothing positive to say about workers, just praise for their bosses.
2. Consider a working couple with two children, earning the current minimum wage. How much federal income tax do they pay? If I’m doing the math right, the answer is, none — they get a refund. (They pay plenty of payroll taxes, sales taxes, etc., but that isn’t supposed to count). In the minds of Republicans, this makes them lucky duckies, members of the 47 percent, part of what’s wrong with America. The GOP just can’t credibly claim to suddenly be deeply concerned about their job prospects.
Maybe once upon a time, when Republicans were less intellectually inbred, they could have pulled off the stunt of seeming to care about the people supposedly hurt by a higher minimum wage. But I really don’t think they’re up to it at this point.”
28 – Sure, he won’t be bringing cash to the closing but that’s a lot of money to lose for someone making a 325K purchase. This seller is on par to lose 20% over 7 years. That’s painful.
not sure why you care. you don’t seriously expect any of your offspring have a chance in hell to be accepted at Harvard
Fast Eddie says:
May 15, 2014 at 8:21 am
Harvard’s Kennedy School of Government is now requiring all first year students to undergo a course titled “checking your privilege” as part of their orientation.
28 – more…
That was someone’s life savings. Why didn’t they just put 20% down, or less? They took every penny and tried to make the payments as low as possible. Result? They’re going to get burned badly. Someone should have advised them. Someone should have explained other logical options. This is what irks me and this what sends me into a f.ucking tailspin. They needed sound advice and now they’re primed to lose a huge chunk of wood.
Why I support a woman’s right to choose:
A: “When working, are you supposed to look like you just played a 90 minute soccer match? Dripping in sweat from working so hard? That’s the way to run yourself into the ground. There is no need to work like a maniac, you will end up putting yourself out of a job anyway.”
B: “ad hoc efforts are a joke. a formal and structured Reparations program must be put in place. it will never happen because we deny Slavery”
anon (the good one) [31],
Based on that story, I wouldn’t dare send them to that f.ucking place.
#29, Point 2, while the EITC is perhaps the better way to address income disparity, why would 2 folks earning minimum wage have 2 kids? That would be showing a lack of planning and forethought, like taking an infant on a small boat around the world….oh..nevermind….
Legislative ethics hearing targets serial flip-flop artist Steve Sweeney
http://www.politickernj.com/73135/legislative-ethics-hearing-targets-serial-flip-flop-artist-steve-sweeney#.U3S6D8G_gb5.twitter
The complaint alleges that Sweeney is maintaining an inappropriate conflict of interest by acting as a paid lobbyist for an iron workers’ union and seeking to influence legislative activity that would directly benefit his union and its members while also serving as the state’s most powerful legislator.
The ethically-challenged Sweeney will be the focus of a hearing on Tuesday, May 20 at 11:00 a.m. in Committee Room 7 on the second floor of the State House Annex in Trenton.
Sweeney is an official with the International Association of Bridge, Structural, Ornamental and Reinforcing Iron Workers Union, for which he receives a base salary of around $165,000 plus expenses totaling $206,092. He also receives another $21,351 in allowances for serving as a district union official.
Gary (34):
Mrs. Hype works in the marketing/editing/financial field. She hates Harvard grads more than any other because they are flat out the laziest workers. All she does is berate them for their shoddy work, late deadlines and an inablility to work in a team environment. It is pretty funny listening to her go off on Harvard grads.
most tea party people here want their kids in the most liberal northeast schools they can get them. isn’t xolepa one of them
Fast Eddie says:
May 15, 2014 at 9:49 am
anon (the good one) [31],
Based on that story, I wouldn’t dare send them to that f.ucking place.
‘Black Mass’ on Harvard Campus Canceled
Maya Rhodan @m_rhodan May 12, 2014
Critics of the re-enactment that was planned as an educational demonstration of a historical “black mass,” a ritual that mocks the Roman Catholic Church, included the university’s president and Roman Catholic Archbishop of Boston, who called the idea “repugnant”
http://time.com/96785/black-mass-harvard-campus-cancelled/
Couldn’t have said it better myself. Why is the worker treated like a disease? I don’t get it.
anon (the good one) says:
May 15, 2014 at 9:36 am
“1. The truth is that top Republicans have so little regard for ordinary workers that they can’t even manage to pretend otherwise. Case in point: on the last Labor Day, Eric Cantor declared,
Today, we celebrate those who have taken a risk, worked hard, built a business and earned their own success.
Yep: even on Labor Day, Cantor had nothing positive to say about workers, just praise for their bosses.
2. Consider a working couple with two children, earning the current minimum wage. How much federal income tax do they pay? If I’m doing the math right, the answer is, none — they get a refund. (They pay plenty of payroll taxes, sales taxes, etc., but that isn’t supposed to count). In the minds of Republicans, this makes them lucky duckies, members of the 47 percent, part of what’s wrong with America. The GOP just can’t credibly claim to suddenly be deeply concerned about their job prospects.
Maybe once upon a time, when Republicans were less intellectually inbred, they could have pulled off the stunt of seeming to care about the people supposedly hurt by a higher minimum wage. But I really don’t think they’re up to it at this point.”
Hype [37],
Interesting. It makes you wonder how the he11 they graduated with that type of attitude? Do they feel that they “paid their dues” and are entitled to just show up? Did they check their privilege? ;)
Since when does academic performance correlate with real-world aptitude or success?
It’s as ironic as a degree in “entrepreneurship”, I guarantee you 99.9% of those graduates will fail as entrepreneurs. It’s not something that can be learned.
No different from business school graduates tending to be shitty business people.
Other than medicine/dentistry – the vast majority of millionaires I know barely graduated high school.
Higher education goes a long way in ensuring you probably won’t be poor, but it does very little towards increasing your chances of being rich.
Since when does academic performance correlate with real-world aptitude or success?
That’s true. Just take a look at the sock muppet called our (cough…) president. Then again, his transcripts are sealed so who knows how painful it is to decipher that mess.
Ten year alomost at 2.5%. That is taxable income. That is crazy
Foreclosures in the hood, while defaults go unnoticed, not acted on, nor reported on in the suburbs. I point to Morris County because the clerk’s site as well as the Sheriff’s sites are easy to use. Lots and lots of defaults, just no foreclosures.
It may be true that the NJ foreclosures are concentrated in urban areas
This one is for Eddie; she is even on an Obamaphone.
http://www.mrconservative.com/2014/05/41117-outrage-hearing-this-welfare-queen-will-make-your-blood-boil/
Hey anon, maybe she’s available!!!!
^^^^And guess what? No inventory either. People who live rent free don’t move too often.
It scares the heck out of me to conclude it, but the more tax/econ/political/social science research I do, and the more hard and anecdotal evidence I collect, the more I have to agree with Clot. We are all well and truly fcuked.
[33] libturd
“Why I support a woman’s right to choose:
A: “When working, are you supposed to look like you just played a 90 minute soccer match? Dripping in sweat from working so hard? That’s the way to run yourself into the ground. There is no need to work like a maniac, you will end up putting yourself out of a job anyway.”
B: “ad hoc efforts are a joke. a formal and structured Reparations program must be put in place. it will never happen because we deny Slavery”
LMFAO. I wonder if we can make his Mom’s choice retroactive?
The only thing difficult about a Harvard education is getting in. Once you get there, you basically do what you want and they will hand you a diploma – with distinction. (Something like 90% of H grads are at least “Cum Laude”.)
Most graduate with a sense that “the world is yours” and are encouraged to “create your own rules”. This isn’t necessarily a bad attitude to have, but for many, learning that the “real world” has norms that they can’t alter – and that in many practical contexts, they aren’t truly “exceptional” – is a serious wake up call.
Unfortunately, many have a difficult time accepting this, and spend the rest of their life in a delusional state (you can pick them out because they are the ones that try to drop their college pedigree into daily conversations 10, 20, 30, 40 years after graduation, rather than talk about things that they’ve actually accomplished).
(Source: I completed a policy fellowship in DC that was saturated with Harvard grads and postdocs.)
[31] anon
“not sure why you care. you don’t seriously expect any of your offspring have a chance in hell to be accepted at Harvard”
I wouldn’t let them set their sights that low. Not if I wanted them to actually learn something worthwhile.
I was born in 02138; I took classes at Harvard (some of my best grades and I have the transcripts to prove it); and I have known plenty of HU and HLS students and grads. And I can tell you provable stories that suggest some of them to be as bright as a bag of hammers.
Hardest thing about Harvard is getting in.
[37] all hype
I used to work at the same firm as Bob Bennett, the well-known criminal defense attorney. He famously sought out HLS grads, and they famously cratered as fast as he could find them.
Around about when I was going to leave this firm, the email in the link went viral in a day. I showed it to some people who thought it was something I was going to send and I had to disabuse them of that idea by pointing out that I wasn’t so stupid as to commit career suicide (besides, I was leaving for grad school).
http://patterico.com/2004/05/28/best-resignation-letter-ever/
The author of this missive turned missile was a Harvard Law grad. Real bright.
At least Harvard dodged this bullet but only after she made international news as being the role model for Rachel Canning.
http://www.thecrimson.com/article/2003/7/11/harvard-takes-back-hornstine-admission-offer/
I’ll tell you one thing about Princeton students, especially the wealthy ones that belong to the eating clubs, jesus they can drink, like prolific drink, I don’t know how they make it through undergrad having any live liver tissue left. I’ll put up a female princeton undergrad against any party school fratboy any day.
But my personal fave was when I was on a due diligence with a litigation associate many years ago.
We were in the data room, going through documents, and he says to me “Nom, there’s a banking term here I don’t understand.”
I said “what is it?”
He said “What does HVAC mean?”
I replied “Heating, Ventilation and Air Conditioning.” The accountants down the other end of the table did a decent job covering up their snickering.
Said litigator is a Harvard undergrad and Harvard Law grad. And he is now a partner.
re # 38 – tea party vs what the communist party?
you agree with him? as opposed to have never, ever disagreed on anything w any of the teatards? it is all non-stop fellating among yourselves
Comrade Nom Deplume, a.k.a. Captain Justice says:
May 15, 2014 at 10:17 am
It scares the heck out of me to conclude it, but the more tax/econ/political/social science research I do, and the more hard and anecdotal evidence I collect, the more I have to agree with Clot. We are all well and truly fcuked.
Nom [46],
I love that woman! Now, that’s what I call success!
And finally, I leave you with this most recent gem, which can only be subtitled “Free speech for me but not for thee.”
http://www.thecrimson.com/article/2014/5/12/faust-black-mass-free-speech/
re # 43- We had a Princeton law grad in our shore house in Sea Girt once. Bitch sent us a letter threatening to sue us at the end of the summer asking for her rent back because we partied too much and she wanted to relax. Screening for summer shares from then on because a very rigorous process of approval starting in the winter with drink fests in Hoboken and NYC.
Eddie [23];
Parsippany schools suck; that’s all there is to it. I saw one listing that called itself “Mountain Lakes” but zoned Par-Troy — BZZT!
Besides, I know that road. It’s a busy cut-through street to a more busy double-yellow road, you can see how steep the side-grade is. Not very desirable.
re # 57 – Anon as we draw closer to the mid terms and you up your angry leftist rhetoric can you at least try and keep it clean? Nobody accused you of going down on Bill Maher after all.
anon (the good one) [57],
I agree as well. When the main topic of discussion pertaining to issues facing our country include the words “g.ay, pot and redistribution,” then the light at the end of the tunnel symbolizing end of times becomes visible.
I do have one more funny story involving HLS. We were interviewing summer associate candidates and they typically ended with lunch at a swanky restaurant. I got asked to fill in for someone who could not go with the group.
The candidate was an HLS student. She seemed just fine and as we conversed, she impressed me by having the foresight to check where I went to law school even though I was a last minute add to the lunch group. This was before smartphones so she clearly thought quick.
This came up in the context of a conversation in which she mentioned being on a trial team at Harvard. I replied “wait, I thought Harvard didn’t have trial teams?” She said “we didn’t but we started them up last year. In fact, we just competed against your alma mater.”
I said “And you lost badly, didn’t you?” She replied “Yeah, you mopped the floor with us.”
I liked her and recommended she be hired. Don’t know if she ever accepted.
Juice [60];
http://www.lettersofnote.com/2011/11/dear-princeton-law-school.html
Princeton Law grad? The above still holds.
[62] juice
“Nobody accused you of going down on Bill Maher after all.”
Not that there’s anything wrong with that.
Nom and Gary:
My neighbor teaches high level math in a Bergen County high school. Lots of his students get into Harvard, Princeton, MIT, etc. He made a point to say that these students are pushed very hard by their parents to get accepted into these schools. They are smart but most are just a clueless as the rest of the 21-22 year olds coming out of college. He has some parents who do not like to be told that little Graydon is not getting into Harvard no matter how many extra-curricular activities they have or how well they play the harp/clarinet/violin and how many languaes they speak. Some parents have even sent their kids to prep school for a year and tried to apply again. Still the same result, no soup for them…
Anon – what do you think of the Gallup organization? Their latest poll says voters will become more negative on incumbents and we draw closer to the election. Does this mean a tea party candidate might win a senate seat or two?
http://www.gallup.com/poll/168998/ahead-midterms-anti-incumbent-sentiment-strong.aspx?utm_source=WWW&utm_medium=csm&utm_campaign=syndication
[65] moose
I am STILL LMFAO.
Moose – never cared much for lawyers, whatever grad school they went to this one touted Princeton and then touted law. I was half in the bag most of my 20s and did not care to check what schools have law and what did not, and I still don’t care much for lawyers even though I deal with them every day, and no present company is not excluded.
One more thing about getting into an ivy league school:
No ethnic group is more discriminated against getting into an ivy league school than asians. Imagine trying to get into Harvard and going against other ethnic groups and a whole lotta other asians who generally are way smarter than everyone else who is applying. I had a former co-worker who used to give his daughter math tutoring all summer so she could get a perfect score on her SATs to better her chance to get into a top tier school.
Bill Maher annoys the heck out of me. I’m not a fan of infidelity, especially with black hookers, but apparently that’s the kind of thing that makes one an ultra liberal.
Hype [67],
My brother went to a small Catholic College and graduated with a BA in Business. He started out in a sh1t job in sales and 25 years later, is semi-retired. His last role was as an Executive VP in charge of global sales. He was No. 2 on the ladder behind the CEO. His last sale before semi-retirement? He solidified the sale of the company to IBM priced in the billions. His key to success? Be humble, grateful, use common sense and treat everyone like they’re someone – from the janitor to the corporate suits. No Harvard or Princeton degree required.
“Be humble, grateful, use common sense and treat everyone like they’re someone – from the janitor to the corporate suits.”
That’s me to the ‘T’.
Libturd,
Amen! :)
Harvard, it’ s the Michigan of the east!
re: # 71 – Hype 6.0% of the U.S. population is Asian Merican yet 20% of the students this year at Harvard are Asian Merican. One could say check your privilege already.
Juice (77):
“One could say check your privilege already”
You might be correct. Thanks for the info. I will forward that stat to my neighbor.
http://www.northjersey.com/news/business/nj-jobless-rate-falls-to-lowest-level-since-2008-1.1016927
NJ jobless rate falls to lowest level since 2008
MAY 15, 2014 LAST UPDATED: THURSDAY, MAY 15, 2014, 10:36 AM
BY HUGH R. MORLEY AND KATHLEEN LYNN
STAFF WRITERS
THE RECORD
New Jersey’s unemployment rate dropped to 6.9 percent in April – the lowest since fall 2008 – as employers added 4,500 jobs, state labor officials said this morning.
The state added 3,300 jobs in the private sector and 1,200 in government, according to the monthly employment report by the New Jersey Department of Labor and Workforce Development.
Regarding Fast Eddie’s 2 Ridgewood examples that are being sold close to or equal to their purchase price in 2007/8.
I think those examples do more to refute your premise than endorse it. In those examples you have 2 families that purchased their properties at the height or near height of the worst bubble in recent RE history and they are selling 6-7 years later virtually unscathed.
If you look at it as an investment purely it was obviously not the best thing to do with their money. But it is not purely an investment. It was a home in a good neighborhood/town with a good school district. They live there. To rent a similar home in the same school district would have been difficult (in terms of limited availability) and if they found something most likely their rental costs would be very similar to their PITI for their current property. On top of that, they would have the tax benefits that come with owning instead of renting.
The move up properties are probably being sold for around the same price as they would have been sold in 2007/8 so they are not really losing anything as they make their move.
I live in the next town over from Ridgewood and have seen many families in my neighborhood sell in the past 18 months at about the price they paid between 2006-8 and move up to nicer, larger, more expensive properties in the same town. I think getting their 20% down payment back along with the principal that they paid down, the money have saved and their increased incomes compared to 2006 have allowed them to move up. I think the worst thing that happened to these families was they may have needed to stay in their starter homes longer than they wanted.
Obviously it would be a better situation had their first property appreciated by 10-20% over that time, but then so would their move up property so I am no so sure how much that really matters.
I agree your examples show they did not kill it in the real estate market, but it doesn’t strike me as this terrible, devastating financial disaster you like to present it as.
I also think you right that alot of people can’t move but not so much because of what they owe on their home or how much their PITI is, its more because they can’t afford to move up. If they put 0-5% down in 2006-8, they will sell without any money coming out for the next down payment. So they can’t afford to move up to a bigger more expensive home and their sons share a room instead of having a larger home. This is not the end of the world. I think they can make their monthly payment, they just can’t move up yet and may find it difficult at any time in the future to do so. They could probably make the monthly payment on the more expensive home to, but coming up with 20% down is the hard part without appreciation of their first home. But, if that’s the worst thing that happens to this family, I think they will be ok. I think this is a large part of the reason inventory remains compressed, more so than people just hanging on for their lives with each monthly payment.
#73 Fast Eddie
And from the same gene pool, did he overachieve or did you underachieve…….. just saying!
I had same thing, after we filled her car with garbage and dumped it in the swamp she reconsidered
60.Juice Box says:
May 15, 2014 at 10:51 am
re # 43- We had a Princeton law grad in our shore house in Sea Girt once. Bitch sent us a letter threatening to sue us at the end of the summer asking for her rent back because we partied too much and she wanted to relax. Screening for summer shares from then on because a very rigorous process of approval starting in the winter with drink fests in Hoboken and NYC.
I treat everyone the same like sh1t
73.Fast Eddie says:
May 15, 2014 at 11:11 am
Hype [67],
My brother went to a small Catholic College and graduated with a BA in Business. He started out in a sh1t job in sales and 25 years later, is semi-retired. His last role was as an Executive VP in charge of global sales. He was No. 2 on the ladder behind the CEO. His last sale before semi-retirement? He solidified the sale of the company to IBM priced in the billions. His key to success? Be humble, grateful, use common sense and treat everyone like they’re someone – from the janitor to the corporate suits. No Harvard or Princeton degree required.
I would say 99.99% of Asians has better grades than me and went to better schools than me.
But oddly I have never worked for an Asian. Yet over the course of my career I had maybe 20-30 work for me.
How many Asian CEOs are there of American Fortune 500 Companies? There are some for sure but considering IVY schools are jam packed with them very little make it to the top
A fun website. At 4 feet, the Jets and the Giants need a new stadium and Newark airport becomes an extension of the port of Newark.
http://ss2.climatecentral.org/#13/40.8133/-74.0151?level=10&pois=show&show=satellite
Bill Maher’s schtick is absolutely hilarious during presidential races especially when Palin, Rick Perry and Michelle Bachman are offered for fodder. He did a turncoat on Ron Paul which irritated me. Outside of that, I find his show pretty boring. I don’t know why anyone listens to Maddow, Limbaugh, Hannity either. Just blabbering egotists.
Cookie [80],
Both successful, secure. Don’t see your point. Are you talking monetary? No problem there. You’re fishing… but thanks for playing, “cookie.”
Bill Maher is not guilty of “infidelity” … the guy has never been married. Free to bang who we wants.
[87] ccb223
fair point. Not that I care who he schtups.
looks like there is some support for anon’s condescending tone after all. He’s just trying to get us to buy into his socioeconomic thinking and using time-tested techniques to do it.
http://money.cnn.com/2014/05/15/news/companies/luxury-shopping-rude/index.html
My bad on the infidelity tip. Apparently, he likes to rob the cradle as well.
Ugh. Long project nearing completion, several more on deck. Guess I had better stop fcuking around and get to work. It’s not like I’ll be watching any hockey.
ccb223 [87];
Once you get past the fact that he paid them for it, that is. Or is it more like gun crimes in DC, we don’t need to care if the “right” kind of liberal does it? Equality under the law? What’s that?
Nom [91];
Let not your heart be troubled; Rangers will take care of the Habs for you.
I was waiting for you to mention the Bruins Nom.
Cookie…best part of that map is seeing where NJ Transit built their largest yard in NJ.
This is my
granddaughterfiance.http://tinyurl.com/robthecradle
@billmaher: Economy added 288,000 jobs, unemployment lowest since ’08. With those numbers, Obama might have created a job for Hillary
You guys throw around stereotypes like it’s your job. Since when are asians so much smarter than everyone else? What great country is located in Asia? India? What a crap hole. You are almost guaranteed to be poor and illiterate if you live there. China? Smart huh? I guess polluting your environment to the point where you can’t even see 5 ft in front you and you have wear a mask is really smart. Building new ghost cities is also very smart. Japan? Where would they be without America?
People stereotype Asians in America because they fail to realize that the smart ones come here. I think India has a 20% literacy rate in their country.
All Hype says:
May 15, 2014 at 11:09 am
One more thing about getting into an ivy league school:
No ethnic group is more discriminated against getting into an ivy league school than asians. Imagine trying to get into Harvard and going against other ethnic groups and a whole lotta other asians who generally are way smarter than everyone else who is applying. I had a former co-worker who used to give his daughter math tutoring all summer so she could get a perfect score on her SATs to better her chance to get into a top tier school.
@billmaher: March Madness really is a stirring reminder of what America was founded on: making tons of money off the labor of unpaid black people
“You guys throw around stereotypes like it’s your job. Since when are asians so much smarter than everyone else?”
Not smarter, they are pushed harder by their parents and more are expected of them as compared to other ethnic groups. The asian kids here in the USA are very well prepared for college.
As for asians who come over here to study, please look up the students in the PhD programs in the sciences. Almost all of the grad students are asian. They may not speak the best English but they know how to conduct hard core scientific research (and make the professors look good and get research $$$).
As far as living and working in places like India, I have some bad news for you. They have a ever increasing middle class. As far a pharma is concerned, this is the land of opportunity for the next 30 years. You will start seeing USA people going over to asia more and more over the next 10 years.
No stereotyping, just the way it is..
Please unmod
When I was in AP Pascal, rather than try to learn that archaic programming language, I figured out how to hack into the directory where other students kept their files so I could change a few strings and call them mine. At the time, I was the only non-Asian in the course. Those guys really were no fun at all, but were excellent programmers.
Market Post: Intermediate and Long Munis Rally
by Hillary Flynn and Maria Bonello
MAY 15, 2014 10:53am ET
.Municipal bonds in the intermediate and long parts of the curve continued to rally on Thursday morning, as their yields declined for the third straight day.
One last chance for local govt to refinance and call bonds to help budget before rates shoot back up
Wish people acted like this. World would be a better place. Too bad most people treat low wage workers like they are some kind of disease. People on welfare, treated even worst by most. Just look at the rhetoric on this board. They beat these people down on a regular basis. Anyone that kicks someone when they are down is a loser. I feel bad for people that are second or third generation welfare. Those people have no chance whatsoever. You can say it’s their own fault, but I repeat, under our economic system someone has to be poor. Meaning, there are not enough jobs to go around. If there were enough jobs to go around, we wouldn’t need unions to help stabilize workers wages from going into a downward spiral. If there were enough jobs to go around, there would be no need for a minimum wage. Too bad people don’t get it.
Libturd in the City says:
May 15, 2014 at 11:12 am
“Be humble, grateful, use common sense and treat everyone like they’re someone – from the janitor to the corporate suits.”
That’s me to the ‘T’.
I would never stereotype a gook
C’s get Degrees!
Dude you are not humble and you do not treat everyone like they are someone.
Fast Eddie says:
May 15, 2014 at 11:11 am
Hype [67],
My brother went to a small Catholic College and graduated with a BA in Business. He started out in a sh1t job in sales and 25 years later, is semi-retired. His last role was as an Executive VP in charge of global sales. He was No. 2 on the ladder behind the CEO. His last sale before semi-retirement? He solidified the sale of the company to IBM priced in the billions. His key to success? Be humble, grateful, use common sense and treat everyone like they’re someone – from the janitor to the corporate suits. No Harvard or Princeton degree required.
Dude the smartest asians are coming to america. That’s why you think they are so smart. The other asians are too poor to get over here. If all the smart polish people started immigrating to the u.s., then you would stereotype polish people as smart and hardworking.
Don’t tell me Americans are going to be rushing to go live in asia. You are crazy. India is a mess. Growing middle class? What about the growing poor class? That place is probably one of the worst places to live in the world. China is not much better. Japan is a radioactive island. South Korea is next to North Korea. F the middle east and their constant turmoil. Where are American’s going in Asia?
All Hype says:
May 15, 2014 at 1:02 pm
“You guys throw around stereotypes like it’s your job. Since when are asians so much smarter than everyone else?”
Not smarter, they are pushed harder by their parents and more are expected of them as compared to other ethnic groups. The asian kids here in the USA are very well prepared for college.
As for asians who come over here to study, please look up the students in the PhD programs in the sciences. Almost all of the grad students are asian. They may not speak the best English but they know how to conduct hard core scientific research (and make the professors look good and get research $$$).
As far as living and working in places like India, I have some bad news for you. They have a ever increasing middle class. As far a pharma is concerned, this is the land of opportunity for the next 30 years. You will start seeing USA people going over to asia more and more over the next 10 years.
No stereotyping, just the way it is..
Also, due to the way Asians are raised here in America, it’s hard to find one with a personality that knows how to have fun. Their parents sucked the life out of them with the way they raised them. But hey, they will score high on their sat’s and get into a good school. Then they will raise little robots of their own who excel at being a hardworking student.
My philosophy is the opposite. You have one life to live. You are only a kid once. So have fun when you are a child.
T as in turd?
Libturd in the City says:
May 15, 2014 at 11:12 am
“Be humble, grateful, use common sense and treat everyone like they’re someone – from the janitor to the corporate suits.”
That’s me to the ‘T’.
can’t wait for the blowback
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/05/15/opinion/kristof-its-now-the-canadian-dream.html?src=me&ref=general&_r=0
Ξ BLACK REPUBLICAN Ξ @blackrepublican 8m
Allen West: I am considering a run for president http://wp.me/pqwpd-pyR
@billmaher: Fukc that Karl Rove, Hillary does not have brain damage, unlike his old client. Which is not to say she’s never had a problem with head.
Libturd in the City says:
May 15, 2014 at 12:49 pm
@billmaher: March Madness really is a stirring reminder of what America was founded on: making tons of money off the labor of unpaid black people
Question for you Real Estate Experts?
Why is it called a building if it is already built?
Do those tweets really entertain you?
I would much prefer Adam West run.
@piersmorgan: Booze & guns = great idea! > RT @washingtonpost Louisiana gun owners could soon be allowed to pack heat in bars http://t.co/1ETCxPTN5c
This quote says it all. You people ask me why I’m attacking the 99%. I’m not, they are attacking 99% of America. I’m just fighting back. They are more of a threat to the American citizen than the taliban.
“Consider that the American economy has, overall, grown more quickly than France’s. But so much of the growth has gone to the top 1% that the bottom 99% of French people have done better than the bottom 99% of Americans.”
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/05/15/opinion/kristof-its-now-the-canadian-dream.html?src=me&ref=general&_r=0
*why I’m attacking the 1%
107. Wow. Can I linkedin you?
these are all facts, but right wing fundamentalist are unwilling to acknowledge it
Michael says:
May 15, 2014 at 2:15 pm
This quote says it all. You people ask me why I’m attacking the 99%. I’m not, they are attacking 99% of America. I’m just fighting back. They are more of a threat to the American citizen than the taliban.
“Consider that the American economy has, overall, grown more quickly than France’s. But so much of the growth has gone to the top 1% that the bottom 99% of French people have done better than the bottom 99% of Americans.”
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/05/15/opinion/kristof-its-now-the-canadian-dream.html?src=me&ref=general&_r=0
Politicians are like turds.
I loved some of the stories today especially Comrade. This all made me smile.
118- Go to the comments on that article. Hit the tab for NYT picks, and enjoy. Highly intelligent comments on the subject. It’s only a matter of time before this becomes mainstream. I’m guessing end of this year or next year. It should be the main focus of the election. This country can’t keep going backwards.
Inequality and Climate Change are 2014’s pine nuts.
@BarackObama:
“Nothing can ever break us. Nothing can change who we are as Americans.”
—President Obama
http://www.thespec.com/news-story/4393286-canadian-dream-dims-for-immigrants/
118,
Growth in incomes for the bottom 99% of population by wealth in both the US and France have been very weak from 1976 to 2007, according to the paper. Under 1% annualized growth. And wealth growth among the top 1% of each country’s populations have been higher. But that information alone says nothing about the cause of the problem or its solution.
I think some of it is the exposure of developed country labor to increasing competition from developing countries. Effectively, new supply came into the global labor market when China, India and Eastern Europe abandoned full economic isolationism, and started producing goods and services to global buyers.
David Stockman, for example, has argued that the break from gold and the rise of the central bank-driven crony state, with cheap money, and artificial pumping of asset markets, has been the key problem, and that anyone who hopes to fix the economy for middle-income earners, needs to end the central bank-treasury-banker-property-government axis of destruction. Some of the wealth of the 1% has been due to falling interest rates and the corresponding pushing up of asset prices, some of it has been from the skim that bankers take while facilitating the government’s policy desires.
I would argue that loose money and central bank manipulation of markets is the biggest example of a failed “trickle down” economic policy. But you don’t need to blame the 1%. Blame the failed government policy and those who advocate and implement it. Greenspan, Summers, Clinton, Bush, Henry Paulson, Geithner, Krugman, Bernanke, Yellen, every major investment bank head.
But don’t blame Elon Musk or Mark Zuckerberg for the financial bubbles that may double (or more) the assessed value of their billions. They and many others invent and create valuable new products and services, helping to support what little real economic progress the US does manage to squeeze out.
It’s simply amazing how they turn a blind eye and defend this bs. I have to think they are mentally challenged.
anon (the good one) says:
May 15, 2014 at 2:25 pm
these are all facts, but right wing fundamentalist are unwilling to acknowledge it
Michael says:
May 15, 2014 at 2:15 pm
This quote says it all. You people ask me why I’m attacking the 99%. I’m not, they are attacking 99% of America. I’m just fighting back. They are more of a threat to the American citizen than the taliban.
“Consider that the American economy has, overall, grown more quickly than France’s. But so much of the growth has gone to the top 1% that the bottom 99% of French people have done better than the bottom 99% of Americans.”
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/05/15/opinion/kristof-its-now-the-canadian-dream.html?src=me&ref=general&_r=0
128- Rags, you make up all these excuses and dance around the fact. If the american economy grew at a faster rate than the French economy, how is it, that 99% of the French people are doing better than 99% of the American people?
You are dancing around, trying to find an excuse, to cover up what you know is the truth. The top is taking more and more. The stats say so. I don’t give a crap about your treasure hunt to find an excuse that will cover up the truth. Don’t blame fiat currency for the reason why all the money is going to the top 1%.
unmod
Go try to find a job in France where unemployment is over 10%. Plus, they don’t even clean up after their dogs. Only an ultraliberal would consider France (sinkers of the Greenpeace Rainbow Warrior btw) superior. Mr. Adolf…please don’t ruin our fancy art. Here, have our Jews instead. Just don’t mess with that church over there. Would you like a snail?
128
Ragnar,
Remember Mikey is the only one here who really knows whan inflation is, really knows how the financial/banking system works. Remember that when your eyes roll in reading his response to your post.
Re: [121];
Because we ignore slavery, DUH! See, Moose can non sequitir with the best of them!
Troll sock [126];
What about “fundamentally transforming the United States of America”? What a messiah, he’s two presidents in one.
Michael,
I wasn’t writing for your sake, but rather for the other participants here who are rational. You’re fully insulated from reason and reality, and I’m sorry to say, I don’t think you have developed the kind of structured thinking methods required to ever grasp reality.
So instead of writing nonsense, maybe you can watch this movie instead:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qPHrVUUs9aU
Grim [106];
Used to be after law school,
the A students become judges;
the B students become law professors;
the C students become rich.
Rags is a fundamentalist aynrand-thumping as much as the taliban is with their hateful non-sense. do you really think he’s in the right state of mind?
Michael says:
May 15, 2014 at 2:53 pm
128- Rags, you make up all these excuses and dance around the fact. If the american economy grew at a faster rate than the French economy, how is it, that 99% of the French people are doing better than 99% of the American people?
You are dancing around, trying to find an excuse, to cover up what you know is the truth. The top is taking more and more. The stats say so. I don’t give a crap about your treasure hunt to find an excuse that will cover up the truth. Don’t blame fiat currency for the reason why all the money is going to the top 1%.
(38) picked up on the forum late in the day. You are right. And it’s hilarious what goes on at these colleges. My daughter, the true conservative of my brood, texts me all the time on these subject matters. She even switched out of courses she deemed to politically correct. Funny thing, the majority of the students are conservative. They have no say in the politics there and are deathly afraid of opening their mouths in counterpoint. Sad situation, but the professors and administrators are to blame for this.
Freedom of expression at its finest
30yr mortgage down to 4.2
While we’re at it – When did Canadians get to be so pissy and nasty?
No body learns much anymore as folks too concerned bout grades.
Once took a class with a cool prof who said opening day everyone in the Class is getting an A. All you have to do is attend every class and be active in the discussion and do the home work.
It was great. I learned a lot, no need to cheat, plays games. Of course one chinese girl in broken english said unfair all get As what if I study more, I feel better about my A if no everyone get A.
OLE Hillary is looking worse by the day. If her fat ass gets any saggier she is going to need a wagon to haul it around. I’m not looking at that medusa for 4 years. No f_ckin way. I demand good looking corrupt people to rule over me.
Then how come their 99% are doing better than the American 99%? I mean they have a higher unemployment rate for god’s sake. You guys just dance around the facts.
Libturd in the City says:
May 15, 2014 at 2:58 pm
Go try to find a job in France where unemployment is over 10%. Plus, they don’t even clean up after their dogs. Only an ultraliberal would consider France (sinkers of the Greenpeace Rainbow Warrior btw) superior. Mr. Adolf…please don’t ruin our fancy art. Here, have our Jews instead. Just don’t mess with that church over there. Would you like a snail?
Again you take away blame from the 1% and blame it on govt. Who the hell dictates govt policy? Yes, the people that can afford an army of lobbyists. You are so blind, it’s annoying. If you claim to be so smart, why can’t you understand what is happening to our country. We are a got damn oligarchy. That is why the 99% are suffering here and the 1% are killing it. We are never different than Russia now in the way our govt and economy are run.
“I would argue that loose money and central bank manipulation of markets is the biggest example of a failed “trickle down” economic policy. But you don’t need to blame the 1%. Blame the failed government policy and those who advocate and implement it. Greenspan, Summers, Clinton, Bush, Henry Paulson, Geithner, Krugman, Bernanke, Yellen, every major investment bank head.”
I don’t know where never came from in that last line. Substitute never for no.
I hate to get nasty, but you are an idiot.
joyce says:
May 15, 2014 at 3:02 pm
128
Ragnar,
Remember Mikey is the only one here who really knows whan inflation is, really knows how the financial/banking system works. Remember that when your eyes roll in reading his response to your post.
People have to see this. An unbelievably accurate and honest assessment from Bill Clinton on taxation. He says precisely, in his first sentence, what I have been saying about tax policy and does so in a far pithier way than I ever did. Finally, the naked truth from a democrat and the only time I have ever heard a democrat even attempt to justify progressive taxation.
http://www.bloomberg.com/video/clinton-wealthy-should-pay-lion-s-share-of-taxes-v0Kkpz2kT~eHGlmpEzH22Q.html
[148] redux,
To be fair, there is one other justification for progressive tax policy that holds water, and that is pure, naked redistribution.
http://economics.mit.edu/files/6820
Funny, I think the same thing about you. Do you understand it is a disease to accrue a billion dollars and still want more. You must have the same disease, because clearly, you see nothing wrong with it. Anyone that accrues 500 million and still wants more is beyond sick. Greed has over taken them. The desire for power has overcome their thoughts. There is no logical reason someone would continue to accrue wealth at that point. What is it going to do for you?
Here is good way of looking at it. We are back in time, during the hunting and gathering stage of human history. You have a group of hunters. One of the hunters, who is the best hunter of the group, is overcome with the disease of greed. He decides to hunt beyond what he really needed to survive. He starts to kill at a rapid pace. At the end of the season, the group of hunters has grown smaller. Most have died, because they were unable to capture a meal. There wasn’t much left, the elite hunter had taken it all.
Ragnar says:
May 15, 2014 at 3:20 pm
Michael,
I wasn’t writing for your sake, but rather for the other participants here who are rational. You’re fully insulated from reason and reality, and I’m sorry to say, I don’t think you have developed the kind of structured thinking methods required to ever grasp reality.
So instead of writing nonsense, maybe you can watch this movie instead:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qPHrVUUs9aU
Thanks for the share. You might not agree with him, but he is right. What kind of logic was used when deciding to lower the taxes on the richest Americans and raising it on the other 99% in the past 30 years? What is the logic behind this? Trickle down?
Comrade Nom Deplume, a.k.a. Captain Justice says:
May 15, 2014 at 4:40 pm
People have to see this. An unbelievably accurate and honest assessment from Bill Clinton on taxation. He says precisely, in his first sentence, what I have been saying about tax policy and does so in a far pithier way than I ever did. Finally, the naked truth from a democrat and the only time I have ever heard a democrat even attempt to justify progressive taxation.
http://www.bloomberg.com/video/clinton-wealthy-should-pay-lion-s-share-of-taxes-v0Kkpz2kT~eHGlmpEzH22Q.html
So it lives in posterity, the words of Bill Clinton:
“People like me, people in the upper income groups should pay the lion’s share of taxes for the same reason Willie Sutton robbed banks. That’s where the money is.”
That, my friends, is the reason it is “fair” to tax the wealthy more heavily. Whether that comports with your defintion of “fairness”, I will leave to posterity. But whenever you hear someone say the rich must pay their “fair share”, the reason it is a “fair share” is because it exists.
All the cant about marginal utility is a justification for acting. It is not, nor was it ever, a social norm that arose independent of the need to create it.
I cannot understand the verbal diarrhea that you’re writing, Michael.
I consider the creation of useful goods, services, and wealth to be a benefit to almost everyone, because economic activity isn’t a zero sum game, like your faulty analogy.
Michael not sick, a function of being human. They have conducted sociological experiments… people want to win, want the money, it is ingrained and evolutionary behavior. Money represents more than the ability to buy things.
[151] michael,
By that logic, I am fully justified in hitting you over the head and taking your wallet. After all, that is where the money is.
Don’t agree? Let’s try this. The Occupy type who famously said “We need more, you have more” as a justification for occupying a churchyard can also justify it when the Bronx youth jacks you up at knifepoint. If he has less, he clearly needs the money more than you do. Thus, it is fair for him to rob you.
By your logic, the taking of another’s property simply because they have it and you have the means to take it generates its own justification. It is, in effect, self-justifying. But to me, it is the law of the jungle, and I seem to recall some world leaders who employed that same “justification” for marching into other countries.
I’d rather have that system, it’s more fair than the current system. You are comparing apples to oranges. You leave out the parts where these individuals rob us in the current system. How come all the gains go to the 1% in our country? Why?
Comrade Nom Deplume, a.k.a. Captain Justice says:
May 15, 2014 at 5:09 pm
[151] michael,
By that logic, I am fully justified in hitting you over the head and taking your wallet. After all, that is where the money is.
On taxes and redistribution, I found this really interesting paper doing a deep dive into the taxing and spending by income group.
http://taxfoundation.org/sites/taxfoundation.org/files/docs/wp9_sr211_Redistribution_Working_Paper_2013_0.pdf
VII. Conclusion
This study provided an in-depth discussion of the distribution of U.S. tax and spending policies across various subgroups of the population, most notably income groups, from 2000-2012. The study concluded that governments in the United States mostly redistribute from the top 20 percent of the income distribution to the bottom 60 percent. The fourth quintile (60-80th percentiles) essentially nets out at zero redistribution. Approximately half of the redistribution from the top quintile comes from the top 1 percent, and approximately half of the redistribution to the bottom three quintiles goes to the bottom quintile.
The amount of redistribution between these income groups depends on what one assumes about the distribution of government spending. Under the benefit principle approach, which distributes spending in accordance with an estimate of each family’s willingness to pay for a government spending program, this study concluded that the amount of redistribution from the top 20 percent to the bottom 60 percent was $1.18 trillion in 2012. Under the cost-of-services approach, which distributes spending to each family based on each family’s cost of providing the service and thereby distributes spending more evenly than the benefit principle approach, the aggregate amount of redistribution from the top 20 percent to the bottom 60 percent was $1.91 trillion in 2012.
The primary results presented in this study assumed a methodological adjustment to close budget deficits by proportionally increasing taxes and decreasing spending. When budget deficits are instead treated as redistribution from the future, net redistribution to each group increases. Although budget deficits increased from 2000 to 2007, the effect of this methodological decision is most significant from 2008-2012 when federal budget deficits climbed sharply following the financial crisis and ensuing recession. Therefore, comparisons of how redistribution has changed from 2000 through 2012 should keep this methodological issue of how to treat budget deficits in mind.
Finally, this study also presented results along other dimensions besides income groups. The study showed that a significant amount of redistribution occurs between the elderly and non-elderly. This study also showed, however, that when Social Security and Medicare are excluded, the net redistribution to the elderly is actually negative. Along the dimension of marital status net redistribution among non-elderly married couples is highly negative, mostly due to the fact that marital status is highly correlated with income. Similarly, there is net redistribution from the college educated to the non-college educated, from homeowners to renters, and from urban families to rural families, due mostly to the correlation between these demographics and income.
I never heard of this, but it does make sense.
jcer says:
May 15, 2014 at 5:09 pm
Michael not sick, a function of being human. They have conducted sociological experiments… people want to win, want the money, it is ingrained and evolutionary behavior. Money represents more than the ability to buy things.
Grim, pls unmod if you have a moment. Thnx.
Cliff Notes Vesion: Michael, you probably don’t even know that you told the “Tragedy of the Commons” tale in [150]. It is archetypical anti-communist, yet you used it to justify communism. Well done.
People who have wealth in the billions, at least in the US, are mostly people who started companies and enjoy growing that business. Usually, their great wealth is tied up in the unsold stock of that business. If the business fails, their wealth goes down.
Michael clearly wants to see lots of US businesses fail and stocks plunge, so that these “sick” people can stop stealing all of the wealth. Mike’s the one with the outdated mentality, who thinks that most businesses are scams, that there’s a fixed amount of wealth to grab and redistribute, that physical property is the main trustworthy asset, that people who found new profitable companies are “robber barons”.
What is interesting to me is that I think there are an increasing number of people who see the world this way. With economic growth slowing in the developed world, and a rising dependence on government programs, there are more people who see the economic world as zero sum, and fall for primitive, collectivist, statist programs as if that was their best chance. Many of them don’t even value wealth for themselves – hipsters flaunt their cheapness and anti-materialism. Yet they hate and want to destroy anyone who does jump out of that zero-sum mindset and make good money.
Ultimately these people are zombies – they cannot live, so they want to eat the living.
Communism? Where did I say to give up ownership? I was showing what happens when someone accrues too much of the pie in our economic system.
Anon E. Moose says:
May 15, 2014 at 5:27 pm
Cliff Notes Vesion: Michael, you probably don’t even know that you told the “Tragedy of the Commons” tale in [150]. It is archetypical anti-communist, yet you used it to justify communism. Well done.
Yes, I’m confused. How is there not a fixed amount of wealth? It can only grow through inflation. This fixed amount is tied to inflation. Please explain to me what I’m missing.
Ragnar says:
May 15, 2014 at 5:36 pm
People who have wealth in the billions, at least in the US, are mostly people who started companies and enjoy growing that business. Usually, their great wealth is tied up in the unsold stock of that business. If the business fails, their wealth goes down.
Michael clearly wants to see lots of US businesses fail and stocks plunge, so that these “sick” people can stop stealing all of the wealth. Mike’s the one with the outdated mentality, who thinks that most businesses are scams, that there’s a fixed amount of wealth to grab and redistribute, that physical property is the main trustworthy asset, that people who found new profitable companies are “robber barons”.
What is interesting to me is that I think there are an increasing number of people who see the world this way. With economic growth slowing in the developed world, and a rising dependence on government programs, there are more people who see the economic world as zero sum, and fall for primitive, collectivist, statist programs as if that was their best chance. Many of them don’t even value wealth for themselves – hipsters flaunt their cheapness and anti-materialism. Yet they hate and want to destroy anyone who does jump out of that zero-sum mindset and make good money.
Ultimately these people are zombies – they cannot live, so they want to eat the living.
My bro-in-law’s response to that article.
“We are under paid , over worked and under-fuc!ed in this country. When those dry beer loving Canadians are passing you things have eroded.”
Re: [162];
Call me when you have a proposal that DOESN’T begin with me giving up my money to people like you to hand out to other people who you want to like you, and I might listen.
Jesus, you take it to extremes.
Anon E. Moose says:
May 15, 2014 at 6:01 pm
Re: [162];
Call me when you have a proposal that DOESN’T begin with me giving up my money to people like you to hand out to other people who you want to like you, and I might listen.
but that’s the point: these are EXTREME right wingers, no rational middle ground for them
Michael says:
May 15, 2014 at 6:13 pm
Jesus, you take it to extremes.
Anon E. Moose says:
May 15, 2014 at 6:01 pm
Re: [162];
Call me when you have a proposal that DOESN’T begin with me giving up my money to people like you to hand out to other people who you want to like you, and I might listen.
@NewsBreaker: This Ronald McDonald isn’t happy: Fast food workers strike in 150 cities worldwide
http://t.co/LoxSA6wihC – @Circa http://t.co/QeW46ffc7o
I knew posting that article would be like kicking a hornet’s nest around here.
Ragnar – on your points in 128. I agree that artificial pumping of asset markets/financial repression has helped widen the income inequality gap as those with wealth (e.g., those with exposure to the stock market) have disproportionately benefited in this crazy bull run since 2009 (vs. the poor/middle class who had much less or nothing in the market).
However, it had to be done because the alternative was way worse for everyone, especially the lower class.
I would like everyone to think back to early 2009…the entire country was at a massive inflection point, the news was going from bad to worse everyday, people talking about nationalizing the banks (think about that…that’s stuff that happens in Venezuela, not the good old USA), unemployment rates skyrocketing (especially people in finance in NYC, tons of my friends got laid off as did I)…we were a couple of bad decisions away from being Will Smith in “I am Legend” and hunting for deer of the streets of 5th avenue a few years down the line. I am not exaggerating…it was real, real bad. Which is why GW Bush and then Obama had to…and I repeat, HAD TO intervene and pump all that money into the economy to stabilize and kickstart things. Bernanke being a Great Depression historian knew this…government cash injection was needed. Look at what happened when they let Lehman fail….all hell broke loose, if that would have happened to the rest of the banks forget about it…time to grab your bow and arrows.
So fast forward to today and everybody has short memories and is blaming everything on these policies which actually saved us…the tricky part is getting off the tiger…which so far seems to be going ok…but we’ll see how this story ends.
“but that’s the point: these are EXTREME right wingers, no rational middle ground for them”
Haha!! You think we are extreme right wing then you need to see the old timer blue collar workers from South River. You would think they were Nazis!
“hipsters flaunt their cheapness and anti-materialism. Yet they hate and want to destroy anyone who does jump out of that zero-sum mindset and make good money.”
Some hipsters have trust funds or rich parents that pay for their lifestyles. Other ones loaf around Williamsburg and beg for change. I had a co-worker almost punch one out after an argument over the hipster’s lack of career motivation. Not smart to pick a fight with a former Army Ranger.
Idiot,
Ragnar did a great job explaing most of the reason(s) very succicntly. And I did quite a good job of tying your own previous comments to your immediate response to Ragnar today … to show how helpless you are.
Michael says:
May 15, 2014 at 5:15 pm
How come all the gains go to the 1% in our country? Why?
I think it is a complete distortion to say without a doubt that NOT doing what was done would have made things worse. Especially without a qualifying statement including a timeline (i.e. worse immediately, worse 6 months from now, worse 6 years from now??).
Also, I think you are extremely biased (if not blinded) by the fact that you work in the area which would have been most affected.
ccb223 says:
May 15, 2014 at 7:18 pm
I knew posting that article would be like kicking a hornet’s nest around here.
Ragnar – on your points in 128. I agree that artificial pumping of asset markets/financial repression has helped widen the income inequality gap as those with wealth (e.g., those with exposure to the stock market) have disproportionately benefited in this crazy bull run since 2009 (vs. the poor/middle class who had much less or nothing in the market).
However, it had to be done because the alternative was way worse for everyone, especially the lower class.
I would like everyone to think back to early 2009…the entire country was at a massive inflection point, the news was going from bad to worse everyday, people talking about nationalizing the banks (think about that…that’s stuff that happens in Venezuela, not the good old USA), unemployment rates skyrocketing (especially people in finance in NYC, tons of my friends got laid off as did I)…we were a couple of bad decisions away from being Will Smith in “I am Legend” and hunting for deer of the streets of 5th avenue a few years down the line. I am not exaggerating…it was real, real bad. Which is why GW Bush and then Obama had to…and I repeat, HAD TO intervene and pump all that money into the economy to stabilize and kickstart things. Bernanke being a Great Depression historian knew this…government cash injection was needed. Look at what happened when they let Lehman fail….all hell broke loose, if that would have happened to the rest of the banks forget about it…time to grab your bow and arrows.
So fast forward to today and everybody has short memories and is blaming everything on these policies which actually saved us…the tricky part is getting off the tiger…which so far seems to be going ok…but we’ll see how this story ends.
Post WW1 Recession/Depression:
Some economists and historians argue that the 1921 recession was a necessary market correction, required to engineer the massive realignments required of private business and industry following the end of the War. Historian Thomas Woods argues that President Harding’s laissez-faire economic policies during the 1920-21 recession, combined with a coordinated aggressive policy of rapid government downsizing, had a direct influence (mostly through intentional non-influence) on the rapid and widespread private-sector recovery. Woods argued that, as there existed massive distortions in private markets due to government economic influence related to World War I, an equally massive “correction” to the distortions needed to occur as quickly as possible to realign investment and consumption with the new peace-time economic environment.
Joyce, rags- I’m the idiot. I don’t see anything with fiat currency in the following quote on causes of income inequality. I don’t see anything Ragner mentioned in this article.
“Causes
One of the reasons is because, as countries industrialise and urbanise, they grow more quickly. Those who move into industry and cities earn more than those who don’t. So, income inequality tends to rise with economic development.
However, countries can bring down income inequality through redistributive policies.
Without the social welfare system, inequality would be much higher in the UK and the rest of Europe. Not having such a system contributes to China’s high levels of inequality.
For developed countries though, there is a lively debate over the causes of the increase in inequality over recent decades.
Without the social welfare system, inequality would be much higher in the UK and the rest of Europe. Not having such a system contributes to China’s high levels of inequality”
Mr Piketty believes that returns (r) to capital and their owners are greater than the growth rate (g) of an economy, so r > g is a reason why a rise in inequality is to be expected.
This has been a subject of contention as to whether the owners of capital such as property, companies and stocks will earn more than the growth in the average income of a country over time.
Inherited wealth is another explanation, though the evidence largely shows that earned income has been a more important driver. And as Paul Krugman points out, six of the 10 wealthiest Americans inherited their wealth so the trend isn’t promising.
For France and Britain, the value of private capital as a share of income has skyrocketed to over 500% since the 1970s, while for the US that ratio has come down somewhat even though it is still a hefty 400%. As this wealth is passed along, the gap between the rich and the rest grows.
High levels of executive pay and a slew of other factors also play a part. For instance, the chief executive of a company listed on the S&P 500 earns an average of 204 times that of a worker in the same company, rising 20% just since 2009.”
http://www.bbc.com/news/business-27419853
Joyce – so you think I am guilty of a “complete distortion” because my lengthy post didn’t provide an exact Armageddon date?
I didn’t say “without a doubt” – clearly it is just my opinion, even if this particular opinion I happen to feel very strongly about. Unfortunately I can’t prove a negative.
Maybe I did feel it a little more than the guy working at the mall but I also had a lot more in the bank than that guy. Even a blind person (I would hope) can deduce that if the market continued to drop (it was already down over 50%), and if all the big banks went under, it would eventually get bad for everybody. Lets remember what banks do (lend money) and what the capital markets are for (to help companies raise money so they can grow) and lets imagine a US economy with all failed big banks. Add in the psychological impact of such events and eventually there is no mall. There is your real trickle down economy.
Bill Gates owns 90% of Microsoft (for the sake of simplicity). 10% is the float in the market. The people out there bid up the price of Microsoft from $10 to $20. Gates has not done anything….his wealth doubled (on a mark to market basis)…….there is now twice as much asset value in Microsoft even though a very small fraction of the shares changed hands to get the price from $10 to $20.
Michael says:
May 15, 2014 at 5:44 pm
Yes, I’m confused. How is there not a fixed amount of wealth? It can only grow through inflation. This fixed amount is tied to inflation. Please explain to me what I’m missing.
I can clarify a little bit. You said, “however it had to be done, the alternative was worse” That seemed pretty definitive to me. My comment regarding a timeline was not to say when armageddon will/would arrive… I meant that if we did not inject limitless “liquidity” to the banks (and still to this day), IF it did get worse, when would it turn for the better? The 1920/21 depression, while hardly apples to apples, is an example however of severe non-intervention in which there was a quick sharp rebound in economic activity.
Yes, I added ‘without a doubt’ that you did not say. And yes, I was referring to the inability of anyone to prove a negative… but said inability doesn’t stop anyone, especially the talking heads on tv, from claiming alternative-negative scenarios as a given continuously.
In response to your last paragraph: If we let the banks fail and liquidation of bad debt (with the accompanying & necessary re-alignment, that we still desperately need), maybe the economy the reemerges wouldn’t be reliant on borrowing for it’s temporary/fake prosperity. Your comments regarding what the capital markets are what the text books say but not what happens in real life (ditto for your comments about the banks). Lastly, your comment about the mall not existing … this is akin to the hysterical nonsensical fear regarding deflation that makes the rounds when needed. If a downward spiral were to actually take hold, a price floor would immediately be found for the essentials (food, housing, energy, etc). The fear that people will put off purchasing goods cause they can get them cheaper later doesn’t hold water when it comes to food. When a price floor emerges in certain sectors, that will begin the rebalancing without govt/FED intervention.
To be clear……Gates can use these shares as collateral for many things…..this wealth has a multiplier effect…….
Ccb223 – we all laughed about getting out TARP funded bonuses in 09.
It was a real laugh fest, especially that guy from AIG the cowboy from a shadow bank who was counter party to rest of the world in CDS. Heck he was getting over a million a month to stick around after the implosion.
Not all contracts needed to be honored with taxpayer money during the crisis.
ccb (176)-
Imagine it? Are you serious? All the banks are dead. The whole necronomy is dead. QE-to-infinity, TARP, Clunkers for Fiat, ZIRP…these are just fancy ways of making the dead banking and credit extension mechanisms into a massive Weekend at Bernie’s redux.
We will all die in a blizzard of worthless green paper. All to “save” a thing that is dead and rotting.
“Lets remember what banks do (lend money) and what the capital markets are for (to help companies raise money so they can grow) and lets imagine a US economy with all failed big banks. Add in the psychological impact of such events and eventually there is no mall. There is your real trickle down economy.”
ccb, are you Timmay Geethner? ‘Cause you write like you’re covered in flop sweat.
One more point about 09, a point Bill Black has made many times.
A now retired SEC lawyer recently shed some more light on the crisis, and just one more reason I don’t care much for most officers of the court. The banks would have been fine after the numerous bailouts, their executives did not need a pass after all of the capital infusions. There is no Ferdinand Pecora anymore, banks have captured the regulators.
Heck the public needed confidence, prosecutions would have gone a long way to instilling confidence in the markets so how about a new law on revolving doors?
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-04-08/sec-goldman-lawyer-says-agency-too-timid-on-wall-street-misdeeds.html
Chi – if the rich gave them all of the paper tomorrow tax free there still would not be enough to make them happy. Heck if I knew a windfall was coming my way why would I bother working anymore?
Michael – I am glad you are sticking around, and breathing new life to this long lived blog that GRIM has been kind enough to host for a long time as he takes over the world. Not to say you will change direction but you may learn a bit more here than you would on the huff po now that you are the 2% meaning you are cash positive. Things may heat up in the next 365 days so stick around.
Yes, you and the author are idiots.
Michael says:
May 15, 2014 at 10:02 pm
Joyce, rags- I’m the idiot. I don’t see anything with fiat currency in the following quote on causes of income inequality. I don’t see anything Ragner mentioned in this article.
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