Few bargains buying, fewer bargains renting

From HousingWire:

Zillow: Renting is twice as expensive as buying

It’s more affordable to buy a home now in most U.S. metros than it was 15 years ago, even for millennials putting down less money on a home, according to a Zillow analysis of third-quarter income and home value data.

Renters, however, continue to pay an increasing share of their income to their landlords as rents soar and incomes remain flat.

On average, homebuyers making the nation’s median income and purchasing the typical U.S. home spend 15.3% of their income on their monthly house payment, down from the historical norm of 22.1% during the pre-bubble period from 1985 to 1999.

In contrast, renters spent 29.9% of their monthly income on rent in the third quarter of 2014, up from 24.9% historically.

Younger buyers, earning less money in many areas and making smaller down payments on a home, should expect to spend slightly more of their income on mortgage payments – 17.4%.

Homes for younger buyers remain affordable thanks to continued low mortgage interest rates and their tendency to shop for less expensive homes.

Continuously rising rents across the country could drive more people into the home-buying market, but they also make it more difficult for first-time buyers to save for a down payment. Washington, D.C., renters can expect to spend 27.1% of their income on rent, up from 16.2% historically. In Miami, rent as a percentage of income has risen from 26.5% before the bubble to 44.5% currently.

This entry was posted in Demographics, Economics, National Real Estate. Bookmark the permalink.

108 Responses to Few bargains buying, fewer bargains renting

  1. grim says:

    From the Courier News:

    Lawmakers consider barring foreclosures on Sandy homes

    Homes damaged by Superstorm Sandy couldn’t be foreclosed on for three years if a plan endorsed Monday by a Senate committee becomes law.

    The financial breathing room faces more hurdles in Trenton before it could take effect, but the impact would stretch into 2018 if it’s ultimately enacted.

    The bill, S2577, was advanced unanimously by the Senate Community and Urban Affairs Committee, though Sen. Jennifer Beck, R-Monmouth, raised questions about including second homes and possibly delaying local redevelopment.

    “We have so many in this state that don’t even have one home, let alone two homes, and so a benefit that we’re providing should really be for the place in which a family is raising their kids and sheltering themselves and that the second home is in many ways a vacation house or a luxury house,” said Beck, who noted federally funded recovery programs have been limited to primary residences.

    Sen. Jeff Van Drew, D-Cape May, the bill’s sponsor, said he’ll consider amending the idea to limit it to primary homes but is inclined to keep second residences eligible.

    “These second homes profoundly affect the economy of the communities in which they exist, and their difficulties in remediating their problem have been equally difficult. They’ve had some really tough times as well,” Van Drew said.

    “The assistance from the federal government to those in their primary homes is essentially that there’s a limited amount of money, so you want to prioritize those people that are going to be displaced from a home and not have a place to live,” said Sen. Chris Connors, R-Ocean. “I’m not so sure it’s the same criteria with regard to foreclosure efforts.”

  2. Liquor Luge says:

    One day closer to doom.

  3. I guess Boston isn’t part of “most U.S. metros”. Fifteen years ago, 1999, the height of the internet boom/bubble, I was hiring people at salaries some of them are not making right now. Oh…and homes AND taxes were a hell of a lot cheaper, as was healthcare. Health insurance was cheaper by a factor of 8.

    It’s more affordable to buy a home now in most U.S. metros than it was 15 years ago, even for millennials putting down less money on a home, according to a Zillow analysis of third-quarter income and home value data.

  4. grim says:

    And you run and you run to catch up with the sun but it’s sinking
    Racing around to come up behind you again
    The sun is the same in a relative way, but you’re older
    Shorter of breath and one day closer to death

  5. Maybe Boston is the outlier, but homes have never been this expensively priced before. Add in taxes, healthcare, etc. and the only conclusion is that it has never been this expensive to own a home here.

    http://www.zillow.com/boston-ma/home-values/
    Market Temperature:HOT

    The median home value in Boston is $439,100. Boston home values have gone up 6.3% over the past year and Zillow predicts they will rise 1.2% within the next year. The median list price per square foot in Boston is $460, which is higher than the Boston Metro average of $225. The median price of homes currently listed in Boston is $495,000 while the median price of homes that sold is $489,950. The median rent price in Boston is $2,350, which is higher than the Boston Metro median of $2,195.

  6. ^^^^ Re-reading, maybe I “kind of get it”, as they are talking about US metros. If they say the NY metro is the “most affordable it’s been in 15 years”, it doesn’t mean Manhattan is. I still call BS for the areas we care about on this site.

  7. grim says:

    We’ve talked about this before, the overall distribution, character, and structure of cities, suburbs, and exurbs varies so widely that even a simple comparison between two areas becomes nearly impossible. Comparing the NY or Boston Metro with anything in Texas, for example, would be ludicrous.

    The city of Austin is 271.8 square miles in size. Boston is 48 square miles. To even come close you would need to include nearly everything to and including Quincy, Waltham, Wakefield.

  8. Here’s the cherry on top of this story. So not only does this white unarmed veteran get taken down in a hail of police gunfire in his back, The cops who did it were Latino. It’s no wonder it doesn’t get any national airplay. BTW, who knew there was a “Fox News Latino”?

    http://latino.foxnews.com/latino/news/2014/12/04/three-latino-cops-in-la-punished-for-shooting-man-in-corvette-following-hour/

    The Original NJ ExPat says:
    December 8, 2014 at 2:45 pm
    This is interesting. This guy actually did have his hands up before he turned to run and he got 15 cop rounds in the back, dead on the scene. He was white, so nobody cares. His family watched the chase and the shooting on TV in real time. They got $5 million from the City of Los Angeles. See? It pays not to loot.

    The chase (crash is at 20:35, killing 30 seconds later):
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ug5KXzpbf9M

    The payout:
    http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-la-to-pay-5-million-to-corvette-drive-killed-by-lapd-officers-20140820-story.html

  9. I think Fox News Latino is Fox’s version of The Onion. I can’t find a story that doesn’t make me chuckle. It’s as if Air America had spoof radio show called “CEO Corner”.

    http://latino.foxnews.com/index.html

  10. Ottoman says:

    “I still call BS for the areas we care about on this site.” AKA white enclaves

  11. JJ says:

    One flaw in Sandy home foreclosure thing is condos where damaged units are not paying any maint and condo is waiting for bank to foreclose so a new owner starts paying maint. In this case you are hurting sandy victims by extending the date these folks can be foreclosed on as the other owners impacted by Sandy will get stuck with bill.

    Also hurting folks with attached homes who fixed their side or folks where houses are on top of each other and dont want to live next to abandoned home for two or three years.

  12. Ottoman says:

    Latino cops get punished, white cops do not. Thanks for further identifying white privilege in America.

    “Here’s the cherry on top of this story. So not only does this white unarmed veteran get taken down in a hail of police gunfire in his back, The cops who did it were Latino. It’s no wonder it doesn’t get any national airplay. BTW, who knew there was a “Fox News Latino”?”

  13. clotluva says:

    Homes for younger buyers remain affordable thanks to continued low mortgage interest rates and their tendency to shop for less expensive homes.

    Nice circular logic and misinterpretation of facts there.

    What percentage of Zillow’s members earn commissions based on rental fees vs sales?

  14. clotluva says:

    Also, to spare Fast Eddie from having to say it, “What about taxes?”

  15. NJT says:

    Bought my first house/home in 1992 in an ‘average’ suburban Morris County town – Rockaway Twp. 7% fixed 30 year with 20% down.

    That house would now sell for 3X (easy) what I paid (it was not a bargain or ‘fixer upper’ – wouldn’t have known how to anyway, back then) with the taxes and insurance 3X higher.

    Lending rules where stricter and interest rates higher but property taxes, insurance and the cost of everything else were much lower but have increased dramatically (far over inflation) since then.

    Salaries (for an average Joe) when adjusted for inflation have not increased anywhere near being able to match the cost of everything else.

    Back then health insurance at most jobs was free or available for a nominal fee. You could pay for college by working part-time during school and full-time over the summer. If you didn’t have a degree many companies would pay for you to get it!Promotions, raises and bonus’ were regular occurrences and not based (so much as now) on racial or gender quotas. Also, there was no competition from offshored or inshored (H1-B) labor.

    I feel sorry for the millennials. The only advantage they have is the ability to qualify for a mortgage with little down at a low interest rate but that’s IF they have a decent paying, full-time job at a stable company (Not many of those for ‘Joe average’ anymore).

    The life we knew is nothing like what confronts them. All we had to do was get a degree, get a job, work hard (in some cases hardly), stay out of trouble and the American dream was ours. Not anymore.

    I don’t see the housing market (‘regular’ suburbs, anywhere) returning to anything resembling what it used to be for a long time, maybe never.

    First time buyers while the bottom of the food chain are the most important link. Without them (as a significant number of those buying) the ecosystem fails, eventually.

  16. Toxic Crayons says:

    NYPD shoots and kills synagogue Stabber

    12/9/2014

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MDahQM6XeI0&feature=youtu.be

  17. Fast Eddie says:

    Maybe Boston is the outlier, but homes have never been this expensively priced before. Add in taxes, healthcare, etc. and the only conclusion is that it has never been this expensive to own a home here.

    It goes for this area as well. It’s stunning. There’s a house on Lawson Ct. in Hillsdale right now that is listed in the mid 500s. It is an “as is” listing and I believe it is an auction sale. It’s a wreck as are most of the listings. The selection/asking price ratio is more f.ucked up than in my lifetime. It is true and I agree, you first time buyers are royally f.ucked beyond belief.

  18. Ragnar says:

    NJT (15)
    To paraphrase Homer Simson
    To debt – the cause of – and solution to- all of life’s problems.

    Seems to be the mantra at the national and household level around the world. Need “aggregate demand”? Borrow and spend. Need a house, car, and electronic gear? Borrow and spend. Running out of money? Borrow more.

    The day of reckoning was postponed, but will come someday, and more suddenly than expected.

    “How did you go bankrupt?”
    Two ways. Gradually, then suddenly.”
    ― Ernest Hemingway, The Sun Also Rises

  19. Fast Eddie says:

    Fifteen years ago, 1999, the height of the internet boom/bubble, I was hiring people at salaries some of them are not making right now. Oh…and homes AND taxes were a hell of a lot cheaper, as was healthcare.

    Any questions?

  20. Liquor Luge says:

    jj (11)-

    In my experience, banks will pick up the HOA payments on condos where the owner is in default. They just tack on whatever they pay to the insurance, taxes, legal fees, interest and penalties. Amazingly, you will also see homeowners who default on everything else, yet somehow decide it’s smart to keep paying their HOA fees. Weird, but a common practice. Maybe they think it will keep their problems from becoming known within the community.

    I’ve also seen situations in which banks don’t pick up the HOA fees, so the condo management company will initiate a foreclosure. That gets the bank’s attention, and they will usually bring the HOA fees current.

  21. grim says:

    Any questions?

    I agree completely, but where we diverge is that I don’t see any reason for anything to get cheaper, or more affordable. The way a reduced quality of life manifests itself isn’t in things becoming less expensive, but *more* expensive.

  22. jj says:

    Banks in NY dont make condo maint pmts until they own unit. NY is not a super lien state so all back maint is wiped out. In addition they drag their feet on foreclsosure as association is picking up slack. Real problem. We have folks who have paid their mortgage or maint in years. Banks couldnt care less.

    Superlien states where condo maint can come ahead of mortgage in condo foreclosure first gets banks rushing or paying back maint.

    Liquor Luge says:

    December 9, 2014 at 9:55 am

    jj (11)-

    In my experience, banks will pick up the HOA payments on condos where the owner is in default. They just tack on whatever they pay to the insurance, taxes, legal fees, interest and penalties. Amazingly, you will also see homeowners who default on everything else, yet somehow decide it’s smart to keep paying their HOA fees. Weird, but a common practice. Maybe they think it will keep their problems from becoming known within the community.

    I’ve also seen situations in which banks don’t pick up the HOA fees, so the condo management company will initiate a foreclosure. That gets the bank’s attention, and they will usually bring the HOA fees current.

  23. Liquor Luge says:

    grim, I think the next deflationary credit collapse should drop prices back to Civil War levels, eventually lead to the reintroduction of the Gold Standard/use of gold and sliver as money and create a social climate that combines the worst elements of Mad Max and the Dark Ages.

  24. [15] NJT – I concur.

    I feel sorry for the millennials. The only advantage they have is the ability to qualify for a mortgage with little down at a low interest rate but that’s IF they have a decent paying, full-time job at a stable company (Not many of those for ‘Joe average’ anymore).

    The life we knew is nothing like what confronts them. All we had to do was get a degree, get a job, work hard (in some cases hardly), stay out of trouble and the American dream was ours. Not anymore.

    I don’t see the housing market (‘regular’ suburbs, anywhere) returning to anything resembling what it used to be for a long time, maybe never.

  25. 30 year realtor says:

    When condos are sold at sheriff sale in NJ the successful bidder is responsible for 6 months HOA fees.

  26. [16] Knives up, Don’t Shoot!
    Knives up, Don’t Shoot!
    Knives up, Don’t Shoot!

  27. Liquor Luge says:

    jj (23)-

    Any lienholder in a situation where the debt relates to real estate can file a lis pendens and attempt to foreclose. The only problem is that when senior lienholders become aware those down the foodchain are trying to FK, they do whatever is necessary to protect their interests, including filing their own FK motions, which turn the junior lienholders into defendants.

    Disclaimer: I am not an attorney, and I openly advocate that attorneys be regularly beaten over the head with sticks and verbally harangued. Except for Plume.

  28. clotluva says:

    The way a reduced quality of life manifests itself isn’t in things becoming less expensive, but *more* expensive.

    I don’t know about that…during the great depression, things were dirt cheap for people who had any sort of assets to trade. The problem this time around is that EVERYBODY has an asset to trade in the form of easy debt.

    Good credit? No credit? Bad credit? NO PROBLEM!!!! Just sign here and this car/education/hospital stay/house is yours!

  29. 30 year realtor says:

    Heard yesterday that FNMA will now be doing 97% LTV mortgages and permit seller concession for closing costs up to 3%.

  30. Liquor Luge says:

    30 year (30)-

    Everything that dies, someday comes back.

    Should all be great good fun, until some gristle gets caught in the sausage grinder.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8qWFhDvURLg

  31. Liquor Luge says:

    My daughter is graduating college this spring with a minimum of debt in her name. She looks at the annual amount she’s borrowed as the equivalent of buying a new Ford Fiesta once a year for four years. She figures her education will be more valuable at graduation than owning four financed Fiestas. In addition, she hopes her education will increase her value in the job market, whereas Fiestas depreciate by the second.

  32. Liquor Luge says:

    100% FNMA financing…available to all 12 people in the US who qualify and actually want to purchase real estate.

  33. Liquor Luge says:

    Wait until 103% financing comes back, then go all in.

  34. clotluva says:

    (30)

    Do they at least check for a pulse and SS # before extending credit?

  35. jcer says:

    +1 on the JJ post about condo maintenance. Some banks might pay, most especially if it is high maintenance do not. I personally bought a condo that had almost 40k in unpaid condo fees, the “Owner” was intending to flip new construction and he basically never made a mortgage or HOA payment. Wells never foreclosed, I bought it as a short sale, bank came up with 12 months maintenance, owner did the same but the association still go the shaft as the fees hadn’t been paid in 4 years. The only thing the banks always pay are the taxes because they know the government always gets their money.

  36. I want to refinance with a negative interest mortgage. How much will a bank pay me to monthly to stay? They just get the money free from the Fed anyway, they should spread the wealth.

  37. [35]I’m sure an ITIN # will work just as well. I think they are handing them out gratis at the borders right now.

    Do they at least check for a pulse and SS # before extending credit?

  38. clotluva says:

    38.

    Remember before “lay-a-way” plans in department stores back in the 70’s? People used to actually have to save for stuff. Sometimes, it helped them distinguish “wants” from “needs”.

  39. Libturd in the City says:

    Otto,

    Punch any cops lately?

  40. Toxic Crayons says:

    Irony alert…..

    Karl Mondon @karlmondon
    Follow
    “It’s the MLK building, you idiots”, sez bystander as #berkeleyprotests hurls chair thru City Hall window.

  41. grim says:

    Wasn’t layaway a huge scam to take money from people?

    I always thought there were strict provisions on paydown periods and penalties that would impact potential refunds.

    Also thought that companies reflected these sales as revenues early, which from an accounting perspective was a bit stinky.

    Even so, why would you allow for a company to take your cash without providing goods, why loan them the money with no interest?

    Ooooh the good old days.

  42. Libturd in the City says:

    Layaway (and Christmas clubs for that matter) were sucker plays.

  43. clotluva says:

    why would you allow for a company to take your cash without providing goods, why loan them the money with no interest?

    Because credit cards were still somewhat rare and we weren’t yet an economy fully based on maximizing consumer debt.

    I’m not saying it was a financially savvy move, I’m just saying there was a very different mindset from consumers – ergo, they lacked the entitlement mentality that pervades society today. “I don’t deserve this until I can actually afford to buy it.”

  44. nwnj says:

    #41

    Never understood burning down your own neighborhood as a protest either.

  45. 1987 condo says:

    As an employee in Newark, nj circa 1979, layaways were a method of forced savings, like Christmas clubs. Also, the folks I worked with had no chance to get a credit card. They needed to give the bank it store the money each week, they also could not afford a bank account.

  46. Ragnar says:

    I think there may have been another motivation for layaway.
    It was more popular when inflation was higher. I assume by putting down some portion of the total price, one could lock in today’s price, rather than a higher price later. Presumably this also applied to “sale” prices, so someone could put down a deposit to lock in the discounted price, and actually get it when they could afford the whole thing (perhaps at a lower price point vs. when they could afford to pay the rest)

  47. JJ says:

    In New York the only thing a condo can do is attempt to foreclose ahead of bank and then try to rent it out until bank forecloses and hope rent is greater than maint owed.

    The bank can then still foreclose as their lien is senior to condo even after condo foreclosed.

    Some states like Hawaii a condo association can beat bank to courthouse steps but not NY.

    Only in a short sale can condo association get some past due maint. A BK all past due maint is wiped out.

    We have two units with maint arrears piling up. If owner sells pre-BK new owner gets past due maint. So owner plays games and see how long before they get nailed. One guy transferred title to his Dad who was terminal right before he died weeks before condo was going to foreclose hence putting it into a long drawn out probate process. then condo sued him directly and shortly before he did a legal name change to make condo refile and then he sold condo with liens to an unknown person who is not going to rent it out and pocket the money till association can figure out who owns unit.

    In long beach I once saw a house transferred into the names of 12 different indian people many who lived in India in an attempt to make it difficult for condo to foreclose.
    Condo Associatons in NY often eat 5-10% of maint with these folks.

    Liquor Luge says:
    December 9, 2014 at 10:10 am
    jj (23)-

    Any lienholder in a situation where the debt relates to real estate can file a lis pendens and attempt to foreclose. The only problem is that when senior lienholders become aware those down the foodchain are trying to FK, they do whatever is necessary to protect their interests, including filing their own FK motions, which turn the junior lienholders into defendants.

    Disclaimer: I am not an attorney, and I openly advocate that attorneys be regularly beaten over the head with sticks and verbally harangued. Except for Plume.

  48. 1987 condo says:

    I doubt the newarkers I worked with had the wherewithal to strategize about their finances

  49. Just like Christmas Club accounts at banks. The funny thing is if they still existed they would be the highest yielding FDIC insured instrument today. I think you started them in January, deposited the same amount weekly until the the end of October and bank “made the last payment for you” and you had access to the cash on November 1st.

    Wasn’t layaway a huge scam to take money from people?

  50. grim says:

    I’m not saying it was a financially savvy move, I’m just saying there was a very different mindset from consumers – ergo, they lacked the entitlement mentality that pervades society today. “I don’t deserve this until I can actually afford to buy it.”

    Sorry, I don’t buy it, err, pun intended I guess.

    You use this an an example of savings, but it’s absolutely not an example of that at all, in fact, the opposite.

    In the good old days, people saved the money before buying it, not as a result of buying it.

    Turns out though, in reality, that lending and debt existed since day 1.

  51. clotluva says:

    51. Not sure how I used it as an example of savings. They did not borrow to finance the asset and they did not take delivery until the asset was paid for.

  52. Exactly right, Rags. I did that in 1975 with an expensive bicycle. I bought a Raleigh Competition on layaway in the fall for $265 because I read in Bicycling magazine that Raleigh, which manufactured in the UK back then, was going to have a substantial price rise. On January 1st the price for identical 1976 models went up to $290. On March 1st the price went up to $329. Somewhere around the beginning of April I finished paying off the bike which would have costed 24% more if purchased on that date.

    I think there may have been another motivation for layaway.
    It was more popular when inflation was higher. I assume by putting down some portion of the total price, one could lock in today’s price, rather than a higher price later. Presumably this also applied to “sale” prices, so someone could put down a deposit to lock in the discounted price, and actually get it when they could afford the whole thing (perhaps at a lower price point vs. when they could afford to pay the rest)

  53. grim says:

    52 – They made a commitment to purchase an item without having the funds to pay for it. Thus, layaway.

  54. clotluva says:

    In another 20-30 years, people will be asking themselves why first time home buyers in the 2010’s took out 97% LTV mortgages and will recognize it as a “suckers play”.

    Why not treat mortgage debt the same way as student loan debt and make it non-dischargeable in bankruptcy? That will prevent the outsourcing of default risk.

    The fact that c@sin0s have tighter risk controls than the mortgage industry says a lot.

    Mortgage originator need a biscuit?!

  55. Anon E. Moose says:

    Grim [51];

    I suppose the one redeeming thing about layaway vs. credit is that with layaway, unlike credit, you don’t get the ‘stuff’ until its paid for.

  56. FKA 2010 Buyer says:

    Or ride the middle…..furniture stores, Home Depot, etc offering 0% financing on purchases over a certain amount if you pay it off in the next 12 months.

  57. Libturd in the City says:

    Anyone want to buy my Montclair multi on layaway?

  58. Libturd in the City says:

    That 0% financing is often a trap. Often, when you make additional purchases, you will incur interest on the whole shebang if you don’t fully pay off the additional purchase at the end of the month. Read the fine print.

  59. Libturd in the City says:

    Same with the 0% balance transfer offers on CCs. The moment you make your first purchase on the card, that 0% changes to the regular rate of the card. Buyer be warned.

    With that said, I finally paid off the last of my 0% transfers which I started taking advantage of over a decade ago. In a low rate environment, it’s simply not worth the float.

  60. clotluva says:

    (57) Yes. Also, I imagine the layaway mentality also dampened demand. “I can’t afford it now, I’m not going to be able to use it now, am I still going to want it in a year? Let’s just hold off and come back later.”

  61. chicagofinance says:

    At least you cannot accuse DeBlasio of being discriminatory…..

    Mayor Bill de Blasio has an opening on his personal security detail — and the candidate has to be black, The Post has learned.

    The head of Hizzoner’s protection unit — staffed by a racially diverse group — has been calling other commanders asking for recommendations, law enforcement sources said.

    “A boss on his security detail is looking to recruit a new sergeant but they have to be the right racial makeup. He is looking for a sergeant but the sergeant has to be black,” a source told The Post.

    “We all know where [the order is] coming from,” the source said, suggesting the security head was acting at the mayor’s behest.

    De Blasio has infuriated the NYPD with his race-based criticism in the wake of a grand jury’s decision to not indict a white police officer in the death of Eric Garner, a black man who died July 17 while resisting arrest on Staten Island.

    The mayor said he and his wife have taught their mixed-race son, Dante, about the “dangers” posed to young black men by biased cops.

  62. chicagofinance says:

    As an aside……imagine if word leaked that Bloomberg demanded a white Jewish cop for his detail?

  63. grim says:

    I’m sorry, but layaway was entirely about consumer deception. You are all brainwashed if you see anything positive about it. You guys have rewritten history in your own minds.

    Let’s look back at the history of layway.

    Monthly fees – In many cases the monthly layaway fee represented a double digit “interest rate” on the “borrowing” that didn’t actually exist. Even today Walmart charges $5 per month layway fee, do the math on putting a $300 TV on Layway for 12 months (I’ll do the math, it’s 20% per year).

    Forfeiture of deposit – In many cases layaway policies provided for a full or partial forfeiture of deposit if payment times were missed or if the buyer changed their mind. This was borderline criminal and many states needed to pass laws to make this illegal.

    Required monthly payments – This required the “customer” to make a physical appearance every month to make their payment. While it didn’t guarantee that the customer would spend additional money, it strongly increased the possibility of additional sales.

    Bankruptcy – Buyers often found themselves with no money and no goods when stores would go out of business.

  64. grim says:

    Nearly every state with a “Deceptive Trade Practices” law has a section on layaway.

    It got this way because it was out of the goodness of everyone’s heart, right?

    Crazy talk, the lot of you.

  65. Anon E. Moose says:

    Lib [60];

    When I’ve had use for them, the balance transfer ‘cards’ themselves never even get activated, much less put in my wallet. The trick is finding one that will waive the bal. transfer fee (usually 3%, floor/no cap). Last one I had was Chase, 16 mos. 0%, no bal. transfer fee. Even if you get 18 mos. for 3% fee its like 2% rate, which isn’t terrible (one good thing is that they roll the fee it into the balance at 0% for the promo period).

    You have to make minimum payments while the 0% runs. Auto-draft is good for this, because if you miss a payment you default on the offer and the will jack the rate up immediately.

    I’ve run the numbers and found it a little too much trouble to be worth trying to arbitrage $10k or so for 18 mos. at current deposit interest rates; with a transfer fee its a sure loser on that front.

    The store credit 0% offers are a little different. If you don’t pay off the balance (I wouldn’t know about new purchases; I used it once for a new computer at CompUSA (HSBC card) about 10 years ago and, again, stored the physical card never to be seen until the account was paid and closed), or if you miss a payment (auto-draft works again!), they hit you with back interest for the entire promo period. It’s usually pretty heinous, like 22% or some such. That’s Vinny the leg-breaker territory.

  66. chicagofinance says:

    Here’s some free legal advice: Don’t hire a lawyer with a degree from Columbia. Those great minds may have high LSAT scores and pass the bar with flying colors.

    But when it comes to an actual trial, they’ll probably crack under the pressure.

    After all, the non-indictments of police officers in the deaths of Michael Brown and Eric Garner have so traumatized some Columbia Law students that they want to postpone their final exams.

    In an e-mail, school administrators announced, “Students who feel that their performance on examinations will be sufficiently impaired due to the effects of these recent events may petition [the dean] to have an examination rescheduled.”

    The school has also brought in a trauma spec!alist to counsel students, and professors are adding office hours for students “who would like support and/or would like to talk about the implications of the Brown and Garner non-indictments.”

    These young men and women are training to be lawyers. What would happen if they were actually involved in one of these cases?

    No indictment? Sorry, I need to spend the day trembling with rage and sorrow in my office.

    Can’t take any calls today. I’m meeting with my shrink.

    Do these proto-lawyers pay attention to any other current events? How did they make it to class after they found out about ethnic cleansing in Syria?

    Were they too unstable to edit the Law Review when they read about the more than 600,000 deaths from malaria in 2012?

    Did they stop reading case studies when they saw the news that 6,800 blacks were murdered in the United States last year? (Even though the vast majority weren’t killed by white people, let alone police officers?)

    Of course, these students and their administrative enablers are being selective about which stories cause them trauma. But their hypersensitivity is no news.

    “Kids raised on a culture of ‘We’re not going to keep score in the game because we don’t want anybody to lose’ ” can’t even listen to a comedian without crying foul, Chris Rock told New York magazine. Which is why he stopped performing on college campuses several years ago.

    College kids take offense at everything; Rock explained that you can’t even say, “the black kid over there,” anymore. You have to say, “the guy with the red shoes.”

    Rather than expose students to other points of view or foster civil disagreements, colleges shelter students from ideas that might upset them. Faculty serve as glorified therapists and protest leaders.

    To see the educational aftermath of these two cases, check out the Chronicle of Higher Education. One Washington University professor excitedly reveals how she’ll teach her history of political thought course: “We’ll ask what it is about governance and the exercise of power in Ferguson that seems illegitimate.

    “Two-thirds of the population is African-American, but the mayor, the entire school board and all but one member of the City Council are white.

    It raises the question: Does this body of elected officials share the perspectives of their constituency? How are local elections structured, and how might that contribute to the imbalance?”

    Doesn’t exactly sound like she’ll welcome students who think there is nothing illegitimate about the governance of Ferguson.

    Meanwhile, a St. Louis Community College prof plans to use “diagrams” to show “how the life and death of [Michael Brown] will lead to social change.”

    She explains, “My colleagues and I have spent time with the protesters in Ferguson. . . We want students to start thinking critically about how the events relate to each other and about possible solutions.”

    Presumably, her students will get credit for joining Al Sharpton at his next march.

    Thinking critically is just about the last thing today’s professors want students to do. The ones who do think critically will probably just anger the ones who don’t.

    Marcia Chatelain, a Georgetown history professor, coined the hashtag #FergusonCurriculum over the summer.

    Her curriculum? She tweeted that she “Had students finish statements in pairs: When I heard the news from the grand jury/When I think of Michael Brown’s parents.” Or “When I talk to my friends about Ferguson/What scares me the most.”

    College students educated in this support-group environment won’t have the knowledge or the intellectual fortitude to understand or fix any injustice in the world today.

    That’s what scares me the most.

  67. clotluva says:

    I don’t hear anyone claiming it was a benevolent concept. But because it involved delayed gratification, it likely did give people a second thought before making a purchase. In that sense, it was better than the fast and loose credit based system we have today.

  68. Anon E. Moose says:

    Grim [64];

    I’m kind of with [68], not “good” per se, just a little bit better. For example, how does WalMart layaway (40% markup) compare to a typical rent-to-own? I was under the impression that they were getting >100% markup over retail price on durable home goods.

  69. grim says:

    69 – Both predatory against low-income “buyers”. Rent-a-Center is criminal.

  70. Comrade Nom Deplume, who needs to stop screwing around and get back to work says:

    [67] chifi

    “In an e-mail, school administrators announced, “Students who feel that their performance on examinations will be sufficiently impaired due to the effects of these recent events may petition [the dean] to have an examination rescheduled.”

    The school has also brought in a trauma spec!alist to counsel students, and professors are adding office hours for students “who would like support and/or would like to talk about the implications of the Brown and Garner non-indictments.”

    AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA . . .

  71. Libturd in the City says:

    “imagine if word leaked that Bloomberg demanded a white Jewish cop for his detail?”

    Bloomberg might first have to hire an investigative bureau just to find one. Might be easier to find a white running back.

  72. A Home Buyer says:

    69 –

    There was also that 5-7% markup that was thrown into all goods from the fee associated with just using the card (directly passed onto the consumer), on top of the interest to be paid by carrying the balance.

    While it may not be a fiscally efficient move, the potential damage to yourself is significantly limited to a few months of pain from lost funds.

    Where as with a credit cards, it is entirely possible to buy a Corvette with of goods in a single evening with no real ability to pay them off anytime in the near future. If you manage the payments, no harm no foul, but if you cant, you end up in 2008.

  73. Comrade Nom Deplume, who needs to stop screwing around and get back to work says:

    Because you knew someone was gonna . . . .

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g0MX4qDsaoY

  74. Libturd in the City says:

    I can’t believe the lefties are touting Michael Brown as a hero. I guess we shouldn’t be surprised though. After all, if you had anything bad to say about Obama, you were labeled a racist. I see my UNH is up again. It’s funny how the insurance providers are profiting through ACA when it was supposed to control costs and make healthcare cheaper for the rest of us.

  75. Libturd in the City says:

    Moose…you are preaching to the converted on the 0% tip. I do the exact thing with my cards too. Though sometimes if you don’t activate them, they follow up with you to make sure card wasn’t stolen.

    By the way, some of my BOA cards have been offering great perks from certain retailers. You need not purchase through their portal either.

  76. Liquor Luge says:

    chi (62)-

    Maybe DeBlasio can hit up his best bud, Sharpton, for some muscle for his security detail. God, this idiot can screw up a peanut butter sandwich.

    “Mayor Bill de Blasio has an opening on his personal security detail — and the candidate has to be black, The Post has learned.”

  77. Liquor Luge says:

    chi (67)-

    Law students at Georgetown and Harvard are also asking for finals to be postponed to “recover” from their traumas.

  78. Liquor Luge says:

    grim (70)-

    I have a very adept and physically strong cousin who did appliance repos for Rent-a-Center while he was in college. The stories are so funny, you’d be crying and rolling on the floor.

  79. Toxic Crayons says:

    67 –

    Chi – They were just out rioting er…I mean protesting…instead of studying for their exams. It’s just a delay tactic.

    Heck if they argued in favor of, and convinced Administrators at Columbia to delay their exams, maybe they really will make good lawyers.

  80. Liquor Luge says:

    These Columbia students are the same ones who welcome gen0cidal maniacs like Ahmadinejad with open arms.

    Somebody should open up a suitcase nuke on that godforsaken blight in Morningside.

  81. Liquor Luge says:

    I’ll be goddamned if my kid sets foot on one of these Ivy campuses. Bunch of closet anti-Semites, collectivists and intellectual jetsam and flotsam. Only thing you can learn at most Ivies is how to destroy the world.

  82. [60] Lib – But it only changes to the regular rate for the new purchases. The problem is even if you buy a $1.50 double cheeseburger it accrues interest “behind” the 0% debt and the only way to pay off the cheeseburger is to pay off all the 0% debt first. The worst deal is, Best Buy, I think? They’ll sell you something at 0% but only if you make every payment and if you don’t pay off the remaining balance when the 0% runs out, you accrue like two years of back interest. I did that deal once back in 2002 for a HD TV, when it got down to the last 3 months I paid it off and it was a relief.

    Same with the 0% balance transfer offers on CCs. The moment you make your first purchase on the card, that 0% changes to the regular rate of the card. Buyer be warned.

  83. Moose – yep. I had a special drawer for them. Back when they had the really big free ones I took $18,000 cash from the bank at 0% and no fees with those silly checks. I just made them out to Charles Schwab, which is how you make deposits to a cash management account anyway.

    When I’ve had use for them, the balance transfer ‘cards’ themselves never even get activated, much less put in my wallet.

  84. Anon E. Moose says:

    Luge [77];

    Maybe DeBlasio can hit up his best bud, Sharpton, for some muscle for his security detail. God, this idiot can screw up a peanut butter sandwich.

    Isn’t that how DiBlasio’s wife ended up with her (now former) ‘chief of staff’?

  85. Anon E. Moose says:

    Luge [82];

    I wonder how many of them would head for the fainting couch if they learned Columbia’s history as “King’s College”. How far they think they’ve come… how far they haven’t.

  86. chicagofinance says:

    The real deal was when you could buy up to $15,000 of US Savings Bonds with a CC and there was only a 6 month holding period……get freq flyer points, balance transfer to a 0% card and earn 5% carry, although you forfeited 3 months to the USG

    The Original NJ ExPat – Bow Down to the King says:
    December 9, 2014 at 2:20 pm
    Moose – yep. I had a special drawer for them. Back when they had the really big free ones I took $18,000 cash from the bank at 0% and no fees with those silly checks. I just made them out to Charles Schwab, which is how you make deposits to a cash management account anyway.

    When I’ve had use for them, the balance transfer ‘cards’ themselves never even get activated, much less put in my wallet.

  87. Anon E. Moose says:

    Lib [75];

    Health care is cheaper… for the select few who get OPM to pay for it.

  88. Ragnar says:

    DiBlasio’s wife is still open to attractive women. Don’t know if she prefers them to be “of color” or not.
    What percent of New Yorkers currently realize they hired a group of circus freaks to run their town?

  89. jj says:

    When she goes south of the mouth all she can see is pink.

    Remember in American a Pink Man can live in a Pink House, a Yellow Man can live in a Yellow House but only a Black Man can live in a White House

    Ragnar says:

    December 9, 2014 at 2:46 pm

    DiBlasio’s wife is still open to attractive women. Don’t know if she prefers them to be “of color” or not.
    What percent of New Yorkers currently realize they hired a group of circus freaks to run their town?

  90. jj says:

    Even better my buddies knew a loan shark in Brooklyn, they would give him their Amex Cards and he would take turns at the ATM down by Fulton Street around 25 years ago using various cards. He then would pay off your credit card double what he took so you would get a credit. Around 200 folks were doing this. Even cops, CPAs and Firemen. I recall they would hit the strip clubs or go crazy buying stuff when their turn would hit. Cool set up as no-one ever met the loanshark. You just ordered a card or gave a card to guy who gave it to him. He also never gave cash back just double card payment. Amex if you sent in a double payment it was an automatic credit.

    Amex figured something was up and the guy shut it down. He later came up with round two with Visa/Mastercard where he had a list of stores with no cameras that did not check ID. He would buy stuff out of state on other folks cards in person and sell the stuff and split profit with the 100-200 cardholders. Once again lots of cops. By mid 90s when stuff got automated it ended.

    chicagofinance says:

    December 9, 2014 at 2:41 pm

    The real deal was when you could buy up to $15,000 of US Savings Bonds with a CC and there was only a 6 month holding period……get freq flyer points, balance transfer to a 0% card and earn 5% carry, although you forfeited 3 months to the USG

  91. Happy Renter says:

    For anyone wondering what happened to REinvestor101, it appears he is working at the admissions office at Leverett College:

    http://www.theonion.com/articles/minority-students-perspective-better-be-pretty-god,37630/

  92. anon (the good one) says:

    @pourmecoffee:
    Dick Cheney angrily reading torture report, breathing labored, “Bring me six newborn babies and a lamb, and close the door to my chamber.”

  93. chi in the Starbucks on Nassau Street in Prineton says:

    I ordered a boxed salad and an espresso, and my Starbucks card was $0.65 short. So the guy asked whether I wanted to reload my card. I said no and handed him $20. He gave me a stone-faced stare and said “check your priviledge.”

  94. chi in the Starbucks on Nassau Street in Princeton says:

    Everyone over the age of 30 in here talks like an NPR announcer.

  95. chi in the Starbucks on Nassau Street in Princeton says:

    FWIW The fire alarm system of The Nassau Inn was activated. As the employees were directing people out, three obviously annoyed professorial types questioned the employees’ “fire emergency assistance training.”

    As a loyal NJ RE Report reporter, I duly authorize clot to machine gun everyone within earshot.

  96. chifi – You’re kidding, right? I haven’t re-charged my Starbucks card in a year or so, and I had a gold card, or gold ranking or whatever since 2006. When they stopped sending me those postcards for free drinks every so many purchases I was done with them. Also I work in Waltham which is a Starbucks-free zone. Somebody must have pull with the city council and own a lot of Dunkin’ Donuts franchises; Starbucks appear to be literally outlawed in Waltham. If you do a search for the closest Starbucks to Waltham you get a map with a perfect circle of stores right outside the perimeter.

    I ordered a boxed salad and an espresso, and my Starbucks card was $0.65 short. So the guy asked whether I wanted to reload my card. I said no and handed him $20. He gave me a stone-faced stare and said “check your priviledge.”

  97. Grim says:

    Princeton?

    I wouldn’t risk the Ebola and dorm gang rape personally, but more power to you.

  98. Grim says:

    Oh wait that’s the Tiger Inn, my mistake.

  99. NJT says:

    Advice I give to ‘kids’ (20 somthings) on the job (hey, they ask);

    Buy a two family that needs some renovation (nothing too major). Learn how to repair/ improve via youtube.com (videos and advice are excellent and free!) Rent one side/up stairs, downstairs unit out). The rent will pay your mortgage. In five years or less rent the whole place out and buy your home.

    Most are too lazy… a few though are far ahead of those living in boomers basements with maxed out credit cards saying “I need another vacation and the newest phone”.

  100. joyce says:

    CONWAY, S.C. — A 21-year-old Conway man was ordered to serve 25 years in prison for shooting at police after he ran from a state trooper who tried to stop him in 2013 for a seat belt violation.
    http://www.myrtlebeachonline.com/2014/12/08/4657461/conway-man-sentenced-to-25-years.html?sp=/99/134

    [[[ So the bar has been set… let’s see if this guy gets the same, more, or less ]]]

    In the video, Jones can be seen getting out of his car when Groubert pulled up and asked for his license. Jones can be seen reaching into his car for his license, and as he does, Groubert begins yelling at Jones and fires several shots.
    http://www.wltx.com/story/news/local/2014/09/24/video-released-released-of-trooper-involved-shooting/16187305/

  101. Hughesrep says:

    102

    You don’t have cops in your friends or and family, do you?

    I do. It’s worse than you think. They do not care, and everyone involved is comfortable with it.

    As an upside, I’m hosting Xmas dinner.

    Thoughts for apps Clot?

  102. Grim says:

    VS fashion show restores my faith in humanity.

  103. Ultra Fabius says:

    #94 Chi
    Sei così cosmopolita!
    Egli rende un buon punto!

  104. Comrade Nom Deplume, at Peace With The Trolls says:

    [105] Fabian

    Parli Italiano? Io sono impressionato y sorpreso.

  105. Comrade Nom Deplume, at Peace With The Trolls says:

    [98] expat,

    “search for the closest Starbucks to Waltham you get a map with a perfect circle of stores right outside the perimeter.”

    Sadly, Waltham wants to keep that working class mentality and not become gentrified. To which Arlington, Newton, Lexington, etc. say “fine with us”

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