Doesn’t make it any easier to swallow

From Time/Money:

8 Reasons Your Property Taxes Are So Damn High

A Monmouth University survey released last fall showed that more than half of New Jersey residents want to leave at some point, with 26% saying that it’s “very likely” they’ll move away from the Garden State. The most popular reasons cited for were the costs of housing and property taxes—the high cost of property taxes in particular. “The chief culprit among these costs is the New Jersey’s property tax burden,” Patrick Murray, director of the Monmouth University Polling Institute, explained.

New Jersey isn’t the only state at risk of losing residents to Florida, Pennsylvania, or another state with lower taxes. Stories pop up regularly speculating about the likelihood of homeowners jumping ship from high-tax states like New York and Connecticut as well.

The community has good schools. Or at least extremely well-funded ones. According to Zillow, the median residential property tax bill in New York’s Westchester County is $13,842, highest in the nation. A Westchester Magazine feature focused on why the leafy, desirable county holds this dubious distinction. The piece draws a comparison to Virginia’s Fairfax County, which is similar in many ways to Westchester: They’re both suburbs of big cities (New York and Washington, D.C.), they have similarly high home values, and they educate about the same number of students in public schools, which in both places have a good reputation.

State workers make good money too. By most measures, New Jersey homeowners have the country’s highest property taxes. Tax Foundation data shows that the Garden State has the highest effective property tax rate (percentage of home value) and the highest property taxes per capita. The average property tax bill in the state hit $8,161 in 2014, also tops in the U.S. In fact, one study indicates that less than 1% of American homeowners pay more than $8,000 annually in property taxes.

Your state relies heavily on property taxes. The above-referenced editorial also points out that 48% of state and local revenues collected in N.J. come from property taxes, which is off-the-charts high: “No other state derives more than 41 percent of its revenue from that source; the U.S. average is 33.1 percent.”

This state of affairs would be more acceptable to locals if the tradeoff for high property taxes is low taxation in other areas. Indeed, New Jersey has one of the country’s lowest gas taxes, and it’s in the middle of the pack in terms of taxes on wine, spirits, and beer. Unlike many other states, people in New Jersey don’t pay any vehicle property taxes either. Then again, New Jerseyans do pay the second highest state sales tax rate (7%, only California is higher).

Little or no tourism. A recent WalletHub study named Hawaii as the state with the lowest property taxes. New Jersey property taxes are eight times higher than their counterparts in the Aloha State. And a big reason why homeowners get off (relatively) easy in Hawaii is that the state collects so much from outsiders, thanks to high taxes on hotels and other tourism expenses. Likewise, taxes paid by casinos and tourists in Nevada are often credited as a reason why state property taxes aren’t high.

Little or no industry. The more that industrial and commercial businesses pay in taxes in a state or town, the less it’s necessary for homeowners to cover the government’s tab. According to the Wyoming Taxpayer Association, 69% of property taxes in the state are paid by mineral production businesses. Therefore, residential property taxes can remain low—the state has no income tax either. The city of Marlborough, Mass., recently estimated that it were it not for local commercial taxpayers, the average homeowner would see his property tax bill (now averaging $4,791) shoot up by $1,164 per year.

Your property is worth a bundle. Your property tax bill is based on multiplying the local tax rate times the assessed value of your home. So, generally speaking, the owners of more valuable homes pay more in property taxes. Marin County has the most expensive real estate in California, on average, so it should come as no surprise that it has the highest (or among the highest) average property taxes too. In New Jersey, the 10 towns with the highest property tax bills all averaged over $18,000 per year, and five out of the ten had average residential property values over $1 million.

This entry was posted in Economics, New Jersey Real Estate, Property Taxes. Bookmark the permalink.

144 Responses to Doesn’t make it any easier to swallow

  1. Fabius Maximus says:

    Friskies

  2. grim says:

    Your state relies heavily on property taxes. The above-referenced editorial also points out that 48% of state and local revenues collected in N.J. come from property taxes, which is off-the-charts high: “No other state derives more than 41 percent of its revenue from that source; the U.S. average is 33.1 percent.”

    Thought this was the most interesting portion of the article.

  3. Comrade Nom Deplume, the loan snark says:

    Article on CNN today about how George Lucas’s neighbors wouldn’t allow him to expand a studio on his ranch. So instead, he is building a massive affordable housing complex in there.

    The article’s headline was how Lucas got “payback” on his neighbors. I think CNN is going to get some grief from the left for that. After all, it’s “racist”.

  4. Liquor Luge says:

    This is how you crater out a state’s middle class, leaving nothing but the ultra-rich and gubmint teat-suckling losers.

  5. Comrade Nom Deplume, the loan snark says:

    I know that it’s clickbait but I couldn’t help myself and checked out a story on Bankrate.com today about the worst home renovations you can make in terms of return on investment. One of the renovations listed among the worst was “upscale master suite addition”.

    The very next article was on the best renovations to make for return on investment. One of the renovations listed among the best was “upscale master suite addition”.

  6. grim says:

    Best renovation ROI is a new front door.

  7. Comrade Nom Deplume, the loan snark says:

    [7] grim

    House came with a nice new steel doors and new Baldwin locks for all (all with matching cylinders). So new that 2 of 3 of the three exterior sets hadn’t been installed when we bought it. Not a hard job but Baldwins require more time and effort than Schlage or Kwikset.

    If I have security issues, it isn’t with the doors.

  8. anon (the good one) says:

    in here, everybody’s front door is above average

  9. dentss dunnigan says:

    ” less than 1% of American homeowners pay more than $8,000 annually in property taxes.” …….We are all 1% ers !

  10. 1987 Condo says:

    Fiberglass or steel best for front door?

  11. dentss dunnigan says:

    1987 Condo …will the front door be exposed to the elements if so fiberglass .other wise steel

  12. Liquor Luge says:

    Need bulletproof materials for front door, 3″ thick lead liners to repel gamma ray tractor beams. Also need some sort of slit or dispenser door that outsiders can’t inject flammables through. Crack houses & bulletproof liquor stores have the best.

  13. Liquor Luge says:

    Can machine gun fire crack a cast iron front door?

  14. Liquor Luge says:

    …don’t forget to lay a gauntlet of claymores between street & front door…also, never a bad idea to have a turret with 360-degree view.

  15. Libturd in Union says:

    dentss,

    Was going to post the same thing.

  16. 1987 Condo says:

    I have a storm door currently, thinking of taking that off, so door will be in elements but not facing sun

  17. nwnj says:

    Speaking of dents, that’s a great reason to get a fiberglass door, much more durable. They look much nicer too.

  18. FKA 2010 Buyer says:

    Little or no industry. The more that industrial and commercial businesses pay in taxes in a state or town, the less it’s necessary for homeowners to cover the government’s tab.

    Good thing NJ is thriving with commercial business.

  19. The Great Pumpkin says:

    “”So if taxes are the solution, then everyone needs an incredible increase in taxes to just balance the rate at which we are losing money, not to mention start paying off the debt.”

    But we’re not losing money–we only lose money if we cut spending (and thus “paying off the debt,” which again, we owe mostly to ourselves) and remove money from the economy. I don’t see why this is so hard to understand.

    And, again, I want to raise taxes on the rich because they’re unlikely to spend money past a certain point, whereas the poor and middle class are. Raising taxes on the poor and middle class would actually depress tax revenues, and thus the economy.

    “Taxing will not fix the problem, because the problem is spending, not the rich.”

    Never once did I say the rich are the problem–wealth inequality and campaign finance which perpetuates terrible policy, like the ones you’re advocating for, is a problem–but the rich are merely the facilitators of those terrible policy.

    For the upteenth time, spending is not the problem. Debt is a *symptom* of the problem. I don’t know how many languages I need to say this in for you to grasp it.

    “And if we keep increasing taxes for the rich, they will eventually up and leave and then their money will go with them.”

    Keep increasing them? No, they’re pretty low relative to historic levels. We haven’t had a tax hike since January 2013–and even that was nothing more than a sunset provision–and corporations are still able to offshore their operations to dodge taxes or hoard money overseas to dodge taxes. That’s a result of, again, terrible policy. The notion that corporations will take their ball and run if we raise taxes is ludicrous. Why aren’t they doing business in Somalia? Because people can’t afford their goods, nor are the costs of relocating worth the benefit of doing so. Moreover, many jobs–minimum wage jobs in particular–are non-exportable. Rates would need to be much, much higher for that to even be a consideration.”

    http://www.debate.org/debates/The-rich-should-be-taxed-heavier/1/comments/1/

  20. Thomas says:

    From the article, “The community has good schools. Or at least extremely well-funded ones.”

    That qualifying second sentence nailed it.

  21. The Great Pumpkin says:

    20- Exactly!!

    “The notion that corporations will take their ball and run if we raise taxes is ludicrous. Why aren’t they doing business in Somalia? Because people can’t afford their goods, nor are the costs of relocating worth the benefit of doing so. Moreover, many jobs–minimum wage jobs in particular–are non-exportable. Rates would need to be much, much higher for that to even be a consideration”

  22. grim says:

    Shitty fiberglass doors have been known to twist and delaminate. They look gorgeous, but suck as doors. High quality fiberglass doors are as expensive, if not more expensive, than good quality hardwood doors.

  23. The Great Pumpkin says:

    Agreed.

    “”They can bear a heavier burden yes, but when they clearly can prosper somewhere other than the United States, they will choose to leave, being that is the most economical choice.”

    Yes and they’ll do better in a booming economy, which they would have if we were to raise their taxes and fund essential services in order to lift the economy. But we’ll continue to follow your policies, and be stuck with perpetual lower trend growth.

    ” Taxing cannot keep up with our spending. ”

    No, the problem isn’t spending–it’s a lack of tax revenue due to a poor economy. And, again, any extra spending is necessary *because* the economy is in such bad shape.

    “Reducing the amount of taxes the government needs to consume is the solution, and that is done by cutting spending.”

    And cutting spending depresses the economy. We already cut spending significantly in sequestration and the like, and it undeniably decelerated the pace of the recovery. It would’ve been much worse had the Fed not intervened.

    “Ok, so raising taxes and not reducing spending will somehow help the debt to be dissolved?”

    As I explained earlier, we’re not “dissolving” the debt because we owe much of it to ourselves.

    Second, it will at the very least prevent us from escalating the debt-to-GDP ratio, as was the case in Greece, by not cutting spending and thus making the economy even worse so it’s harder to even carry the debt burdens that we currently have.

    “Not only taking more money out of investments of the rich, but not cutting back on spending, will fix a problem that has grown, in spite of already increased taxes?”

    First of all, we’re not “cutting out of investments of the rich.” The rich would do better in a booming economy, and are already enjoying negative real interest rates and $2 trillion in cash hoardings. So spare me the “if only the rich just had even MORE money!” narrative, because it’s facile and fact-free.

    Again, we’ve cut spending more than we’ve raised taxes.

    And, again (again), the problem is the weak economy, not the debt. The deficit has fallen and the economy has been improving (in fact, it’s been falling because the economy has been improving), so the actual problem, rather than your imaginary problem, actually has been improving.”

    http://www.debate.org/debates/The-rich-should-be-taxed-heavier/1/comments/1/

  24. Essex says:

    1. For some….

  25. Essex says:

    7. Good to know as that is what we are doing to the manse pre-listing .

  26. The Great Pumpkin says:

    Exactly what I try to explain to the individuals on this board, but get blasted by the rags and fast eddie types for attacking the rich. Not attacking the rich at all, attacking the problem with the economy. If you think it’s an attack on the rich, you clearly are in capable of understanding this issue.

    “”But I’m kinda done with this discussion anyways. Guess you win by default. Guess the debt is an imaginary problem that can only be solved by taxing the rich.”

    I never said anything of the sort, and that this is your takeaway from this discussion is a testament to how much faith I ought to have in your reasoning and comprehension skills. Your bogus claim that I in some way strawmanned or misquoted you is positively asinine, and not grounded in fact, but in frustration that I duly and thoroughly refuted every point you put forward, where you could do nothing more than callously repeat yourself, without making a single substantive argument. If you read what I wrote, you would know that I said *repeatedly* that solving the rich is a means to an end, not an end in itself, and that it’s only a single means to that end–but that the main problem, at least for right now, is the weak economy, whereas the debt is a symptom. Perhaps one day you’ll look back on this conversation and realize how utterly foolish you look. I feel as though I spent the last hour or so talking to a wall.”

  27. anon (the good one) says:

    @stiglitzian:
    It’s the slow growth caused by austerity that caused the debt not the other way around as a large number of econometric studies demonstrated

    “It’s hard to argue against new ideas in general,” Krugman writes. “In recent years, however, innovative economic ideas, far from helping to provide a solution, have been part of the problem. We would have been far better off if we had stuck to that old-time macroeconomics, which is looking better than ever.”

    Krugman writes that right-wing European politicians especially buried their heads in the sand, seeking justification from economics for the horrible political and ideological agendas they wished to impose. The exciting new research all proved grounded in phony assumptions.

    The old-school Keynesians were right. The ideologues refused to listen.”

  28. FKA 2010 Buyer says:

    Four Ways Rich People Can Still Hide Their Money

    Wealthy Americans are running out of ways to hide their money. The IRS has been relentless in prying open the secret Swiss bank account—dozens of Swiss banks are cooperating with the agency. Just last month, a settlement with the private bank BSI revealed bankers used coded language and nameless credit cards to help Americans avoid taxes. Credit Suisse and UBS, Switzerland’s largest banks, have already paid fines for similar shenanigans.

    The rest of the world is also getting less hospitable to American tax dodgers. A 2010 federal law, the Foreign Account Tax Compliance Act, requires all foreign banks to report to the IRS on their American customers. It’s working so well that Americans abroad say they’re having trouble opening bank accounts even for legitimate purposes. Banks don’t want the regulatory and paperwork hassle.

    (1) Go overseas, (2) Hide inside a shell, (3)Use a trust , (4)Hire an expert

    http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-04-15/four-ways-rich-people-can-still-hide-their-money

  29. The Great Pumpkin says:

    Figured I would add the start of that debate, since some many provide the same reasons for not taxing the rich at present time.

    “”Taxing the rich takes more money away from the rich. Meaning that they will not be able to afford as many employees. That is not hard to understand. Also, what happens when the rich get tired of being the bull’s eye of everyone else’s problems? The government is the one spending the money irresponsibly. What is the solution? Tax the rich of course… They have money, right? Well, what happens when the rich leave the United States and live somewhere else? If we keep putting all the load on those who have worked with their money and been prosperous for it, they will eventually get sick of it and leave. However, would you disagree that the rich should not take the load of our governments spending issues?”

    I would, because I don’t think the government has much of a “spending issue,” and historically speaking, it has spent and continues to spend around 20 percent of GDP, yet tax revenue, which usually averages 19 percent of GDP, is much lower than it’s been historically.

    Moreover, the sources of tax revenue have changed considerably overtime, as the affluent and corporations have been able to shift the sources of their income and access a multiplicity of tax breaks and offshore tax havens, resulting in a decline in the share of both income and corporate taxes to overall revenue and uptick in the percentage from regressive payroll taxes.

    Now, you may say that you don’t want to over-tax the poor and middle class, either, for whom payroll taxes consume a much larger percentage of their overall income, and that’s a fair point, but the money nevertheless needs to come from somewhere: either we raise taxes, cut spending, or continue to run deficits. I’m partial to the first and third options, and not too crazy about the second, at least for right now, though down the road reducing the deficit will undeniably become a paramount concern.

    So, as a short answer to your question: yes, I would disagree. I think the rich owe a debt to the society that allowed them to flourish as they did, and only they are properly situated to ultimately bear the burden of rebuilding and maintaining society. To me, only that makes moral and economic sense.”

  30. JJ says:

    A large bush can hide an ugly front door. I know a few girls who it worked out for.

  31. D-FENS says:

    24 – only the poor and middle class pay taxes. The rich move themselves and their money when governments ask for more.

  32. 1987 Condo says:

    #23..so you recommend steel door? Or should I just retain my current 1959 wood door and upgrade hardware? Thanks all!

  33. Fast Eddie says:

    There are just a lot of unmotivated, poorly educated, don’t-give-a-damn workers out there who couldn’t care less about increasing productivity or being nice to customers.

    It’s the real reason for the so-called income inequality. It’s so easy to lift yourself to another status rung that it’s laughable. Unless you’re disabled, there’s zero excuse for not reaching higher and being responsible for yourself. The income inequality mantra is nothing more than a sales tactic used but the left to take advantage of those justifying their laziness and by those looking to massage their narcissistic egos disguised as compassion.

    http://www.dallasnews.com/business/columnists/will-deener/20150419-a-slack-supply-of-capable-workers-dragging-down-the-economy.ece

  34. The Great Pumpkin says:

    If this isn’t enough evidence to claim that the rich don’t pay their fair share for the costs of running society, I don’t know what will. They are hiding money, meaning they are not paying what they are supposed to. Simple as that. Call it “fair share” or whatever you want.

    FKA 2010 Buyer says:
    April 20, 2015 at 10:39 am
    Four Ways Rich People Can Still Hide Their Money

    Wealthy Americans are running out of ways to hide their money. The IRS has been relentless in prying open the secret Swiss bank account—dozens of Swiss banks are cooperating with the agency. Just last month, a settlement with the private bank BSI revealed bankers used coded language and nameless credit cards to help Americans avoid taxes. Credit Suisse and UBS, Switzerland’s largest banks, have already paid fines for similar shenanigans.

    The rest of the world is also getting less hospitable to American tax dodgers. A 2010 federal law, the Foreign Account Tax Compliance Act, requires all foreign banks to report to the IRS on their American customers. It’s working so well that Americans abroad say they’re having trouble opening bank accounts even for legitimate purposes. Banks don’t want the regulatory and paperwork hassle.

    (1) Go overseas, (2) Hide inside a shell, (3)Use a trust , (4)Hire an expert

    http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-04-15/four-ways-rich-people-can-still-hide-their-money

  35. FKA 2010 Buyer says:

    I only saw my home on the weekends before buying. Went by at night, on the weekend to see how the neighborhood looked. Everything checked out perfectly, nice neighbors, quiet street,etc. NOTHING could have prepared me for the morning traffic on this stretch of the highway.

    Home buyers’ top five regrets

    There are few things in life as exciting as being handed the keys to your new home. That moment is usually the culmination of years of saving and months of searching for the right property.

    But that feeling of elation can sometimes devolve into feelings of regret. One in four homeowners had buyer’s remorse about their current home, according to a Redfin national survey conducted in 2014 by Harris Poll.

    With a decision as big as buying a home, it’s no surprise that regrets are common. But you don’t have to end up among that 25 percent. Most buyer’s remorse stems from one of the following issues, so keep these in mind as you tour properties.

    1)Neighborhood
    2. Parking and transportation issues
    3. Renovation ambitions
    4. Price
    5. Lender

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/where-we-live/wp/2015/01/27/home-buyers-top-five-regrets/

  36. Fast Eddie says:

    I think the rich owe a debt to the society that allowed them to flourish as they did…

    What’s stopping anyone in this country from not wanting to reach higher? Read this sentence. Why do the “rich” owe a debt to society? Cut your own path. Being rich isn’t the same thing as being successful. Just f.ucking work! You don’t like making minimum wage, then do the things necessary to get a better job. Holy sh1t, how hard is this concept!

  37. The Great Pumpkin says:

    You are confused. You are telling me that if everyone worked hard, there would be no losers in a capitalist system? Why do you make statements like this, when they are totally wrong?

    It’s laughable that you don’t realize that someone has to be poor, no matter how hard they work. So wouldn’t you think that they would be stupid to keep working hard when it’s more than likely they will not get anything out of the hard work? They are stuck at the bottom of society and it’s not easy to get motivated to pick yourself up out of that kind of situation. Only a minority of that population makes it out of that dreaded position in the economy, not a majority. If the majority were able to move up on hard work alone, don’t you think that the majority would be working hard?

    Fast Eddie says:
    April 20, 2015 at 10:44 am
    There are just a lot of unmotivated, poorly educated, don’t-give-a-damn workers out there who couldn’t care less about increasing productivity or being nice to customers.

    It’s the real reason for the so-called income inequality. It’s so easy to lift yourself to another status rung that it’s laughable. Unless you’re disabled, there’s zero excuse for not reaching higher and being responsible for yourself. The income inequality mantra is nothing more than a sales tactic used but the left to take advantage of those justifying their laziness and by those looking to massage their narcissistic egos disguised as compassion.

    http://www.dallasnews.com/business/columnists/will-deener/20150419-a-slack-supply-of-capable-workers-dragging-down-the-economy.ece

  38. The Great Pumpkin says:

    Name one individual that became wealthy without the help of everyone else? They use all the services that the taxpayer provides to increase their wealth, buddy. No one ever became rich on their own, NO ONE EVER.

    Fast Eddie says:
    April 20, 2015 at 10:53 am
    I think the rich owe a debt to the society that allowed them to flourish as they did…

    What’s stopping anyone in this country from not wanting to reach higher? Read this sentence. Why do the “rich” owe a debt to society? Cut your own path. Being rich isn’t the same thing as being successful. Just f.ucking work! You don’t like making minimum wage, then do the things necessary to get a better job. Holy sh1t, how hard is this concept!

  39. chicagofinance says:

    “Shitty fiberglass doors”
    Is that one of the Sammy Hagar solo songs after he split with Van Halen?

    grim says:
    April 20, 2015 at 10:21 am
    Shitty fiberglass doors have been known to twist and delaminate. They look gorgeous, but suck as doors. High quality fiberglass doors are as expensive, if not more expensive, than good quality hardwood doors.

  40. Fast Eddie says:

    …it’s not easy to get motivated to pick yourself up out of that kind of situation.

    Then don’t dare ask anyone else for help. And that’s what that article is saying. I see help wanted signs everywhere for these manufacturing companies in Cedar Grove and Totowa corporate parks. Your arguments are laced with bullsh1t and excuses. Who f.ucking cares how rich the guy up the street is, I could care less. It’s not easy to get motivated? What a crock of sh1t.

  41. The Great Pumpkin says:

    Fast eddie, if you owned a business, would you hire someone from the bad streets in Paterson? Why, or why not? Listen, I’m not trying to make excuses for these individuals, but you have to understand why they are the way they are. I would never ever want to live in their shoes.

    Fast Eddie says:
    April 20, 2015 at 11:02 am
    …it’s not easy to get motivated to pick yourself up out of that kind of situation.

    Then don’t dare ask anyone else for help. And that’s what that article is saying. I see help wanted signs everywhere for these manufacturing companies in Cedar Grove and Totowa corporate parks. Your arguments are laced with bullsh1t and excuses. Who f.ucking cares how rich the guy up the street is, I could care less. It’s not easy to get motivated? What a crock of sh1t.

  42. Comrade Nom Deplume, who needs to stop screwing around and get back to work says:

    [20] punkin,

    Right as usual . . .

    Year Company New country Revenue

    1983 McDermott International Engineering Panama $2.7 billion
    1994 Helen of Troy Consumer Products Bermuda $1.3 billion (FY 2014)
    1996 Triton Energy Oil and Gas Cayman Islands Acq by Hess in ’01
    1996 Chicago Bridge & Iron (CBI) Engineering Netherlands $11.1 billion
    1997 Tyco International Diversified Manufacturer Bermuda $10.6 billion
    1997 Santa Fe International Oil and Gas Cayman Islands Acq by Transocean in ’07
    1998 Fruit of the Loom Apparel Manufacturer Cayman Islands private company
    1998 Gold Reserve Mining Bermuda N/A
    1998 Playstar Corp. Toys Antigua Acq by Premier Mobile in ’06
    1999 Transocean Offshore Drilling Cayman Islands $9.4 billion
    1999 White Mountain Insurance Insurance Bermuda $2.3 billion
    1999 Xoma Corp. Biotech Bermuda $35.5 million
    1999 PXRE Group Insurance Bermuda Acq by Argonaut Group in ’07
    1999 Trenwick Group Insurance Bermuda Acq by LaSalle Re Holdings in ’00
    2000 Applied Power Engineering Bermuda Now called Actuant $494 million
    2000 Everest Reinsurance Insurance Bermuda $5.6 billion
    2000 Seagate Technology Data Storage Cayman Islands $14.4 billion
    2000 R&B Falcon Drilling Cayman Islands Acq by Transocean in ’00
    2001 Global Santa Fe Corp. Offshore Drilling Cayman Islands Acq by Transocean in ’07
    2001 Foster Wheeler Engineering Bermuda $559 million
    2001 Accenture Consulting Bermuda $28.6 billion (FY 2013)
    2001 Global Marine Engineering Cayman Islands Acq by Bridgehouse Capital in ’04
    2002 Noble Corp. Offshore Drilling Cayman Islands $4.2 billion
    2002 Cooper Industries Electrical Products Bermuda Acq by Eaton in ’12
    2002 Nabor Industries Oil and Gas Bermuda $1.6 billion
    2002 Weatherford International Oil and Gas Bermuda $15.2 billion
    2002 Ingersoll-Rand Industrial Manufacturer Bermuda $12.3 billion
    2002 PricewaterhouseCoopers Consulting Consulting Bermuda N/A
    2002 Herbalife International Nutrition Cayman Islands $4.8 billion (sales)
    2005 Luna Gold Corp Mining Canada $85.3 million
    2007 Lincoln Gold Group Mining N/A
    2007 Western Goldfields Mining N/A Acq by New Gold in ’09
    2007 Star Maritime Acquisition Grp Shipping N/A Now Star Bulk $69 million
    2007 Argonaut Group Insurance Bermuda $1.4 billion
    2007 Fluid Media Networks Music Distribution
    2008 Tyco Electronics Industrial Manufacturer Switzerland Now TE Connectivity $3.4 billion (FY ’13)
    2008 Foster Wheeler Engineering Bermuda $3.3 billion
    2008 Covidien Healthcare Ireland $10.2 billion
    2008 Patch International Inc Oil and Gas Canada
    2008 Arcade Acquisition Group Financial
    2008 Energy Infrastructure Acquisition Group Energy
    2008 Ascend Acquisition Group Electronics N/A Acq by Kitara Media in ’13
    2008 ENSCO International Oil and Gas United Kingdom $4.9 billion
    2009 Tim Hortons Inc Restaurant Chain Canada $3.2 billion
    2009 Hungarian Telephone & Cable Corp. Telecommunications Denmark $219 million
    2009 Alpha Security Group Security N/A
    2009 Alyst Acquisition Group Financial N/A Acq by China Networks Media in ’09
    2009 2020 ChinaCap Acquirco Financial N/A Acq by Exceed Co. in ’09
    2009 Ideation Acquisition Grp Private Equity N/A Acq by SearchMedia in ’09
    2009 InterAmerican Acquisition Grp Business Management N/A Acq by Sing Kung Ltd in ’09
    2009 Vantage Energy Services Offshore Drilling Cayman Islands $732 million
    2009 Plastinum Polymer Tech Corp. Industrial Manufacturer
    2010 Valient Biovail Pharmaceuticals Canada $5.7 billion
    2010 Pride International Offshore Drilling United Kindom Acq by Ensco in ’11
    2010 Global Indemnity Insurance Ireland $319 billion
    2011 Alkermes, Inc. Biopharmaceutical Ireland $575 million
    2011 TE Connectivity Industrial Manufacturer Switzerland $13.3 billion
    2011 Pentair Water Filtration Switzerland $7.5 billion
    2012 Rowan Companies Oil Well Drilling United Kindom $1.5 billion
    2012 AON Insurance United Kindom $11.8 billion
    2012 Tronox Inc Chemical Australia $1.9 billion
    2012 Jazz Pharmaceuticals / Azur Pharma Pharmaceuticals Ireland $872 million
    2012 D.E. Master Blenders Coffee Netherlands $3.5 billion
    2012 Stratasys Printer Manufacturer Israel $486.7 million
    2012 Eaton/Cooper Power Management Ireland $22 billion
    2012 Endo Health Solutions Pharmaceuticals Ireland $2.6 billion
    2013 Liberty Global PLC Cable Company United Kindom $17.3 billion
    2013 Actavis / Warner Chilcott Pharmaceuticals Ireland $8.7 billion
    2013 Perrigo/Elan Pharmaceuticals Ireland $3.5 billion (FY 2013)
    2013 Cadence Pharmaceuticals Pharmaceuticals Ireland $110 million
    2014 Mallinckrodt Pharmaceuticals Pharmaceuticals Ireland $2.2 billion
    2014 Chiquita Brands Produce Ireland $3 billion
    2014 Medtronic Pharmaceuticals Ireland $16.5 billion

  43. anon (the good one) says:

    @stiglitzian: “Countries that cut back most suffered the greatest reduction in output & the hope for improvements in fiscal positions have not occurred.”

    @stiglitzian:
    Stiglitz:
    “The notion that it’s debt and deficits that are at the root of the problem have, I thought, been already thoroughly debunked…”

  44. Comrade Nom Deplume, who needs to stop screwing around and get back to work says:

    [43] redux

    And this list is by no means exhaustive in that inversions have been occurring for a long time. But one thing I found interesting is that as many companies (roughly) left the US under 6 years of Obama as did under 23 years of Reagan/Bush I/Clinton/Bush II, and that isn’t even factoring in the 2008 inversions, some of which could be seen as a reaction to the election and the desire to get out before the Obamunists took over (I posit this because inversions spiked in 2008 but there were no appreciable tax law changes that would have precipitated that diaspora).

  45. The Great Pumpkin says:

    43- If we had politicians that weren’t bought out by these same businesses looking for ways to not pay their taxes, do you think our govt would allow for this backwards policy?? I know if the middle class had access to these same tax advantages, the policy would be changed over night so that the middle class couldn’t get away it. I wonder why the big boys get away with it? All you have to do is change the policy, I wonder why they won’t change it?

  46. Essex says:

    37. I love how folks born on 2nd or 3rd base congratulate themselves for hitting a home run.

  47. The Great Pumpkin says:

    Exactly, certain individuals refuse to acknowledge this. It’s simply amazing that some people can’t understand this. Just go and cut everything, that will fix it all.
    anon (the good one) says:
    April 20, 2015 at 11:18 am
    @stiglitzian: “Countries that cut back most suffered the greatest reduction in output & the hope for improvements in fiscal positions have not occurred.”

    @stiglitzian:
    Stiglitz:
    “The notion that it’s debt and deficits that are at the root of the problem have, I thought, been already thoroughly debunked…”

  48. jcer says:

    38. You have it all wrong, hard work is the differentiation. You only have a few options to rise up out of crummy jobs. Either you’re smart, you work harder, or can convince employers you are better otherwise you are going nowhere. My father was dirt poor, his father lost his business to the tax man(after having to pay a certain criminal element protection money), he started with nothing but he has made a small fortune. This is a common story you’ll hear, especially with immigrants, they are smart and find a way to rise above.

  49. The Great Pumpkin says:

    This is coming from the guy complaining a few years back that there were no good jobs available. Just work hard, buddy!!

    Fast Eddie says:
    April 20, 2015 at 10:53 am
    I think the rich owe a debt to the society that allowed them to flourish as they did…

    What’s stopping anyone in this country from not wanting to reach higher? Read this sentence. Why do the “rich” owe a debt to society? Cut your own path. Being rich isn’t the same thing as being successful. Just f.ucking work! You don’t like making minimum wage, then do the things necessary to get a better job. Holy sh1t, how hard is this concept!

  50. Comrade Nom Deplume, who needs to stop screwing around and get back to work says:

    [46] punkin,

    ” If we had politicians that weren’t bought out by these same businesses looking for ways to not pay their taxes, do you think our govt would allow for this backwards policy??”

    What do you propose, short of ring-fencing the country with capital controls and abrogating all of our tax treaties?

  51. The Great Pumpkin says:

    Being born into poverty in America is much different than being an immigrant coming to a new country looking for opportunity. I have the same background. Grandparents came over from Europe looking for opportunity. I’m much different than the white trash born in West Virginia with almost no hope of improving their lot.

    jcer says:
    April 20, 2015 at 11:25 am

    38. You have it all wrong, hard work is the differentiation. You only have a few options to rise up out of crummy jobs. Either you’re smart, you work harder, or can convince employers you are better otherwise you are going nowhere. My father was dirt poor, his father lost his business to the tax man(after having to pay a certain criminal element protection money), he started with nothing but he has made a small fortune. This is a common story you’ll hear, especially with immigrants, they are smart and find a way to rise above.

  52. The Great Pumpkin says:

    I expect them to do the right thing and help the American society in which they conduct their business. Help, not rip off the community that gives them money.

    Comrade Nom Deplume, who needs to stop screwing around and get back to work says:
    April 20, 2015 at 11:28 am
    [46] punkin,

    ” If we had politicians that weren’t bought out by these same businesses looking for ways to not pay their taxes, do you think our govt would allow for this backwards policy??”

    What do you propose, short of ring-fencing the country with capital controls and abrogating all of our tax treaties?

  53. anon (the good one) says:

    that was back in the day. not anymore

    jcer says:
    April 20, 2015 at 11:25 am
    38. You have it all wrong, hard work is the differentiation.

  54. anon (the good one) says:

    @BillMoyersHQ:
    Staggering Stat:
    Btwn ’08-13, US corps held $2.1 trillion in profits overseas skipping out on $500 billion in taxes

  55. The Great Pumpkin says:

    That’s 10 billion for each state. Right there, our pension problem is solved.

    anon (the good one) says:
    April 20, 2015 at 11:41 am
    @BillMoyersHQ:
    Staggering Stat:
    Btwn ’08-13, US corps held $2.1 trillion in profits overseas skipping out on $500 billion in taxes

  56. Anon E. Moose says:

    Tool [54];

    that was back in the day. not anymore

    You should try doing some hard work before you pass judgment. Pro Tip: Surfing Twitter and Cut-and-Paste is never hard work.

  57. D-FENS says:

    Certainly. You are far more r@cist and judgemental.

    The Great Pumpkin says:
    April 20, 2015 at 11:29 am
    Being born into poverty in America is much different than being an immigrant coming to a new country looking for opportunity. I have the same background. Grandparents came over from Europe looking for opportunity. I’m much different than the white trash born in West Virginia with almost no hope of improving their lot.

  58. Fast Eddie says:

    This is coming from the guy complaining a few years back that there were no good jobs available. Just work hard, buddy!!

    There weren’t. And I did. Changed my resume, took a few additonal courses and adjusted; did contracts and kept pushing. Now, I have to defend myself?

  59. JJ says:

    It is the cut of your jib that gets you ahead

  60. The Great Pumpkin says:

    Racist and judgemental? Why, because I stated “white trash”? Who do you exactly think lives in the Appalachian towns? These people are beyond fuc$ed!!! Who is going to teach them how to improve their lot? No one!

    “In Appalachia the country is beautiful and the society is broken. Owsley County, Ky. — There are lots of diversions in the Big White Ghetto, the vast moribund matrix of Wonder Bread–hued Appalachian towns and villages stretching from northern Mississippi to southern New York, a slowly dissipating nebula of poverty and misery with its heart in eastern Kentucky, the last redoubt of the Scots-Irish working class that picked up where African slave labor left off, mining and cropping and sawing the raw materials for a modern American economy that would soon run out of profitable uses for the class of people who 500 years ago would have been known, without any derogation, as peasants. Thinking about the future here and its bleak prospects is not much fun at all, so instead of too much black-minded introspection you have the pills and the dope, the morning beers, the endless scratch-off lotto cards, healing meetings up on the hill, the federally funded ritual of trading cases of food-stamp Pepsi for packs of Kentucky’s Best cigarettes and good old hard currency, tall piles of gas-station nachos, the occasional blast of meth, Narcotics Anonymous meetings, petty crime, the draw, the recreational making and surgical unmaking of teenaged mothers, and death: Life expectancies are short — the typical man here dies well over a decade earlier than does a man in Fairfax County, Va. — and they are getting shorter, women’s life expectancy having declined by nearly 1.1 percent from 1987 to 2007. If the people here weren’t 98.5 percent white, we’d call it a reservation.”

    Read more at: http://www.nationalreview.com/article/367903/white-ghetto-kevin-d-williamson

    D-FENS says:
    April 20, 2015 at 11:49 am
    Certainly. You are far more r@cist and judgemental.

    The Great Pumpkin says:
    April 20, 2015 at 11:29 am
    Being born into poverty in America is much different than being an immigrant coming to a new country looking for opportunity. I have the same background. Grandparents came over from Europe looking for opportunity. I’m much different than the white trash born in West Virginia with almost no hope of improving their lo

  61. The Great Pumpkin says:

    Why were you complaining back then. You should have taken your own advice and stopped complaining and worked harder. Don’t tell me there were no jobs available, that’s the exact same thing I stating about these people, and you are brushing it off. You can’t use it the excuse for yourself and at the same time blow it off for others. That’s a hypocrite.

    Fast Eddie says:
    April 20, 2015 at 11:54 am
    This is coming from the guy complaining a few years back that there were no good jobs available. Just work hard, buddy!!

    There weren’t. And I did. Changed my resume, took a few additonal courses and adjusted; did contracts and kept pushing. Now, I have to defend myself?

  62. D-FENS says:

    Anybody have any idea what happened at Picatinny Arsenal on Friday? The Feds don’t seem to be telling the local reporters exactly what went on.

  63. D-FENS says:

    61 – I also recall many of your comments about “those poor people” who inhabit the urban areas in NJ.

  64. Fast Eddie says:

    You should have taken your own advice and stopped complaining and worked harder.

    I did. And still do.

  65. The Great Pumpkin says:

    Fast eddie, this is exactly why poor people are screwed. The one’s that can get out, do. The one’s that are left behind are screwed beyond belief. You think it’s just a matter of working hard, and this my friend, is why you are completely lost.

    “There is here a strain of fervid and sometimes apocalyptic Christianity, and visions of the Rapture must have a certain appeal for people who already have been left behind. Like its black urban counterparts, the Big White Ghetto suffers from a whole trainload of social problems, but the most significant among them may be adverse selection: Those who have the required work skills, the academic ability, or the simple desperate native enterprising grit to do so get the hell out as fast as they can, and they have been doing that for decades. As they go, businesses disappear, institutions fall into decline, social networks erode, and there is little or nothing left over for those who remain. It’s a classic economic death spiral: The quality of the available jobs is not enough to keep good workers, and the quality of the available workers is not enough to attract good jobs. These little towns located at remote wide spots in helical mountain roads are hard enough to get to if you have a good reason to be here. If you don’t have a good reason, you aren’t going to think of one.”

    Read more at: http://www.nationalreview.com/article/367903/white-ghetto-kevin-d-williamson

  66. D-FENS says:

    66 – sounds like Jersey.

  67. A Home Buyer says:

    63 –

    http://www.nj.com/morris/index.ssf/2015/04/arraignment_monday_for_driver_that_caused_picatinn.html

    Based on what I’m hearing and reading, someone tried to enter who shouldn’t have been there. Security saw “something” in the backseat and presumed it to be a device of MD. Locked down evacuated the facility and Route 15 as a precaution.

    They were not certain it was a W of MD, but enacted the protocols for it and brought in EOD. They determined it was safe, gave the call clear, and are bringing up the individual on trespassing , attempting to breach a restricted area, and similar charges.

    All of this is hearsay though.

  68. jcer says:

    Everyone know the opportunities are fewer today but it is about value and using your head. The poorest Americans have a problem and it’s that they live poor … my parents made me work sh*t jobs as a kid and there was a clear difference between me and the other employees, I generally tried to be the best at what I was doing where as other employees were just trying to not get fired. If you look clean, do what is asked of you and are reliable you will likely get promoted and even in a menial job it is a pathway to better things. Again I’ll go to the immigrants my dad uses a Polish contractor for a lot of the projects they do…now even the Poles have outsourced to Central Americans for labor as Poles are now too expensive for most construction work. But they have a guy who is about 30, came from Guatemala, an incredibly poor country, poorer than anyone in the US, and with a history of brutal violence. Started as a laborer, but was reliable, learned very good English and even some Polish, and was very clean cut…. now he’s a foreman and is directing the migrant labor, making more money not busting his butt as much as was required before, someday I’d bet he’ll own his own construction company. That is the American dream and you see it with immigrants every day…..why should Americans not be able to do the same? Why do these people stay in an area with no opportunity….why do they not plan there way out. If someone can come thousands of miles from countries with extreme violence and sneak into this country, get a job nobody wants to do and start to build a life for themselves with nothing from nothing. Than people in the Ghetto or West Virginia should be able to do the same. Middle and Upper Middle class Americans like Eddie complain because the GOOD jobs that they had have gone away…..once you’ve moved past crummy jobs you don’t want to have to go backwards. I don’t see why being a poor immigrant vs. a poor american is any different unless you want to take into account desire to succeed, drive and innate ability. Oh and on top of this it is frequently much easier for poor Americans who are eligible for all kinds of assistance and can legally work.

  69. Comrade Nom Deplume, who needs to stop screwing around and get back to work says:

    [53] punkin,

    That’s an exhortation, not a policy.

    I reiterate. What do you propose?

  70. FKA 2010 Buyer says:

    [61] Pumpkin

    The vast majority of the people in the Appalachian area are some of the largest users of Section 8 and know nothing about preventive health care. There are plenty of towns where there are no job opportunities and its pretty bleak there. At least the scenery is better than it is in the urban areas. It’s actually sad to see with your own eyes. The interesting thing is that they are solidly Republican.

    See the show Justified which does a good job of portraying the area.

  71. FKA 2010 Buyer says:

    [69] jcer

    I was speaking with a friend who came to America after he graduated from HS in Russia. He spent his first year in college learning English before graduated 4 years later. Plenty of fun times in little Odessa. Reminds me I have to reach out to my lil friend from back in the day.

    Anyway, also had many very good conversations and one particular question which I couldn’t answer has always stuck with me….why are there so many Americans who can get a free HS education, do not take advantage of it. He saw education as an opportunity to get ahead. I’ve always found it interesting to get a recent immigrants view of the US.

  72. The Great Pumpkin says:

    Listen, the guy that escapes guatamala and becomes a foreman in America is not your avg human being. He is clearly above avg, and had he been born in America to an upper class family, he would probably be a ceo of a fortune 500 company.

    I’m talking about avg human beings. People that are not geniuses and capable of learning how to be successful on their own. Most humans model other individuals and do what they do to survive. Is it really a shocker when someone who is born of avg intelligence into the ghetto never makes it out? Who are they going to model? The drug dealers? Those are the only successful people in their community. Welfare becomes a way of life.

    You had the benefit of having parents that taught you lessons about life. The only people teaching ghetto youth about lessons in life are their teachers and the street. Obviously, they have no respect for teachers and look at education as a waste of time because no one taught them to respect education. You can’t blame them, if you didn’t have parents pushing you to do your hw, would you have cared about school? Imagine having no penalty for doing bad in school, what is to motivate you to do well? This is why parents are so important when it comes to education. A teacher can’t do it all.

    jcer says:
    April 20, 2015 at 12:28 pm
    Everyone know the opportunities are fewer today but it is about value and using your head. The poorest Americans have a problem and it’s that they live poor … my parents made me work sh*t jobs as a kid and there was a clear difference between me and the other employees, I generally tried to be the best at what I was doing where as other employees were just trying to not get fired. If you look clean, do what is asked of you and are reliable you will likely get promoted and even in a menial job it is a pathway to better things. Again I’ll go to the immigrants my dad uses a Polish contractor for a lot of the projects they do…now even the Poles have outsourced to Central Americans for labor as Poles are now too expensive for most construction work. But they have a guy who is about 30, came from Guatemala, an incredibly poor country, poorer than anyone in the US, and with a history of brutal violence. Started as a laborer, but was reliable, learned very good English and even some Polish, and was very clean cut…. now he’s a foreman and is directing the migrant labor, making more money not busting his butt as much as was required before, someday I’d bet he’ll own his own construction company. That is the American dream and you see it with immigrants every day…..why should Americans not be able to do the same? Why do these people stay in an area with no opportunity….why do they not plan there way out. If someone can come thousands of miles from countries with extreme violence and sneak into this country, get a job nobody wants to do and start to build a life for themselves with nothing from nothing. Than people in the Ghetto or West Virginia should be able to do the same. Middle and Upper Middle class Americans like Eddie complain because the GOOD jobs that they had have gone away…..once you’ve moved past crummy jobs you don’t want to have to go backwards. I don’t see why being a poor immigrant vs. a poor american is any different unless you want to take into account desire to succeed, drive and innate ability. Oh and on top of this it is frequently much easier for poor Americans who are eligible for all kinds of assistance and can legally work.

  73. anon (the good one) says:

    more than their own poverty, they truly hate Newark residents.
    the only way to get at them is by voting republican

    FKA 2010 Buyer says:
    April 20, 2015 at 12:43 pm
    [61] Pumpkin

    The vast majority of the people in the Appalachian…..are solidly Republican.

  74. Libturd in Union says:

    That’s because back in the day, the government didn’t make it so easy on the lazy. Heck, today you need not even learn the national language and you can go to schools where English isn’t even taught. And I must add, all on Tio Sam’s dime. I would think not knowing how to speak the native language would be a detriment to employment. Of course back in the day, the Democrats might have been more interested in helping those less fortunate, rather than only being concerned with obtaining/maintaining their vote. Baa!

    A none says:
    that was back in the day. not anymore

    jcer says:
    April 20, 2015 at 11:25 am
    38. You have it all wrong, hard work is the differentiation.

  75. Ragnar says:

    Looks like a good day to repost this, given all the BS I’m skimming over today.
    http://www.dklevine.com/general/illusion.5.htm

  76. Ragnar says:

    I fear that Libturd is one of a dying breed. An everyman who believes that hard work, discipline, and education can lead to success, and a lack of those self-controllable efforts leads to failure.

    No doubt most schools and politicians have been decrying this worldview for decades as small-minded and prejudiced, but I think the preachers of John Rawls have increasingly won the cultural propaganda wars, especially amongst the intellectuals and pseudo-intellectuals.

  77. The Great Pumpkin says:

    Doing the right thing and taking care of the community that makes you money has to be enforced by policy? Not asking for much here, just asking to stop hiding the tax money. Just pay what you are supposed to pay by law. What’s so hard about that? If the little guy has to pay, why doesn’t the big guy have to? Stop making excuses for their greedy behavior. They are taking advantage of you, I don’t care if you are in the low end of the 1%, you are paying for their greedy maneuvers to avoid their full tax bill. Someone has to pay for it and unfortunately it is you and I.

    Comrade Nom Deplume, who needs to stop screwing around and get back to work says:
    April 20, 2015 at 12:42 pm
    [53] punkin,

    That’s an exhortation, not a policy.

    I reiterate. What do you propose?

  78. Comrade Nom Deplume, who needs to stop screwing around and get back to work says:

    [76] ragnar,

    LOL, that’s how I feel. Reading these comments is like listening to an argument over how to arrange the deck chairs on the Titanic. Not exactly the best comparison but just as pointless.

  79. The Great Pumpkin says:

    Hope I provided some insight to the question you present in your second paragraph. Check out post 73 as to why it is this way.

    They truly don’t know any better. They were not brought up with the foundation to value education. No one taught them that. They see education as a jail, where they are forced to learn things that they will never use. Living in the ghetto, you have absolutely no use for education. I know it doesn’t make sense, since they could use education to get out, but they just were never taught to use education as a means to improve one’s lot in life. It’s of no use to them based on how they view the world.

    FKA 2010 Buyer says:
    April 20, 2015 at 12:53 pm
    [69] jcer

    I was speaking with a friend who came to America after he graduated from HS in Russia. He spent his first year in college learning English before graduated 4 years later. Plenty of fun times in little Odessa. Reminds me I have to reach out to my lil friend from back in the day.

    Anyway, also had many very good conversations and one particular question which I couldn’t answer has always stuck with me….why are there so many Americans who can get a free HS education, do not take advantage of it. He saw education as an opportunity to get ahead. I’ve always found it interesting to get a recent immigrants view of the US.

  80. A Home Buyer says:

    75 – Lib

    http://www.nbcnews.com/news/latino/lack-english-fluency-disability-n340611

    “Over the past few years, more than 200 residents of Puerto Rico were granted federal disability benefits because they don’t speak English fluently, according to an audit report by the Social Security Administration’s inspector general.”

  81. Comrade Nom Deplume, who needs to stop screwing around and get back to work says:

    [78] punkin’

    “Doing the right thing and taking care of the community that makes you money has to be enforced by policy?”

    If what you want done isn’t in the company’s best interests, then yes. Corporations are amoral entities, whose mission is to maximize return. If right and return coincide, all is good. When they don’t, you need policy.

    “Not asking for much here, just asking to stop hiding the tax money. Just pay what you are supposed to pay by law.”

    When a corporation’s foreign subsidiary doesn’t repatriate earnings to the parent in order to avoid taxation, that is not illegal. So what exactly are they supposed to pay by law?

    Your witness, counselor.

  82. Comrade Nom Deplume, who needs to stop screwing around and get back to work says:

    [81] buyer

    ““Over the past few years, more than 200 residents of Puerto Rico were granted federal disability benefits because they don’t speak English fluently, according to an audit report by the Social Security Administration’s inspector general.”

    No hablo ingles.

  83. The Great Pumpkin says:

    80- Another problem, if all these poor people magically rallied around education as a means for improving their lot in life, the end result will be a poor class that is highly educated. Being educated, they will not be content with living on food stamps and eating the crumbs left by the big guys. They will rise up and fight if they are educated and can not find a job. They will realize real quick how they are being taken advantage of in life.

  84. anon (the good one) says:

    @neiltyson:

    I dream of a world where the truth is what shapes people’s politics, rather than politics shaping what people think is true.

  85. The Great Pumpkin says:

    Unfortunately, all this article proves is that the author doesn’t understand modern economics and where it is heading. He is still stuck on 1800 economic theories and thinks that is the only way to run an economy. It has to be hybrid, that can adjust to whatever problem is facing, and you can’t understand that. You think it can only be one way. You refuse to open your mind and allow it to look at the economy in a different way. You will never ever understand what these modern economists are trying to explain.

    Please watch this video and instead of fighting it, try to understand what he is saying.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YnyDRwSqp2E

    Ragnar says:
    April 20, 2015 at 1:11 pm
    Looks like a good day to repost this, given all the BS I’m skimming over today.
    http://www.dklevine.com/general/illusion.5.htm

  86. The Great Pumpkin says:

    Please, anyone that laughs at my economic thoughts, please watch this video. The video in the above post explains it if you understand economics already. The language is more complex.

    This video is as simple of a version that is possible. You can’t explain it easier than this. Please watch it and understand how the debt works that you are so afraid of.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4bXpOUYrr1c

  87. Fast Eddie says:

    …the end result will be a poor class that is highly educated.

    Lol! That’s classic! Is that some sort of bizarro world? Is that like a gifted pianist who can’t find a keyboard?

  88. Xolepa says:

    You can be stupid and highly educated at the same time.

  89. jcer says:

    84, there will always be the poor, that’s not the issue. The issue is that they really can escape through hard work and trying. Back to the Guatemalan foreman or his Polish boss who followed a very similar path. Many of their coworkers never rose above laborer, why? Well you have drinking, drugs, being unreliable, showing up to work all disheveled, tattoos, piercings, smoking, etc. If you work hard and do the right things eventually you will get ahead, is it harder than if you started out better, absolutely. The average person doesn’t need half of the stuff society pushes on them. The average person needs a full belly, a good roof over their heads, a good safe school to send their kids to, healthcare, and the piece of mind that they are not a heartbeat away from living on the streets. The average person wants too much stuff and doesn’t realize that stuff isn’t what’s important in life. The difference between the immigrant and the ghetto comes down to how satisfied the person, some immigrants never move past being laborers because once they get out of the dire situation they came from they are satisfied, others have a burning desire to better their situation and the situation of future generations.

    There will always be stratification. There are those who want to succeed badly enough, those born with greater ability, and those who just don’t have it. The world needs ditch diggers too, note I didn’t say McBurger flippers. I refuse to believe that so few are capable and I would rather chock it up to bad policy and laziness.

  90. anon (the good one) says:

    @AmandaBecker: #SandersAtBrookings:

    top 25 hedge fund managers made $24 billion in 2013, same as 425,000 public school teachers.

  91. The Great Pumpkin says:

    If you understand economics, you would not be laughing. You would understand. There is an unemployment rate, that means there are not enough jobs for everyone no matter what type of education you have.

    Fast Eddie says:
    April 20, 2015 at 1:50 pm
    …the end result will be a poor class that is highly educated.

    Lol! That’s classic! Is that some sort of bizarro world? Is that like a gifted pianist who can’t find a keyboard?

  92. anon (the good one) says:

    i bet that, as an example, you at least have a Masters

    Xolepa says:
    April 20, 2015 at 1:57 pm
    You can be stupid and highly educated at the same time.

  93. Xolepa says:

    It amazes me, the resiliency of some people on this forum. If I was bashed constantly due to either lack of subject knowledge, or just ideological adherence, I would have crawled into a hole and escaped from the abuse.

    Remember Poor Richard?

  94. The Great Pumpkin says:

    92- The basic premise of capitalism is that someone must be poor in order for someone to be rich. It’s a competition and eventually the competition gets so one sided, no one can compete. Adam Smith, in his manifesto, understood this. He wrote that there must be checks in the free market system to prevent the system from collapsing due to greed. This is the father of the free market system and he understood that the system is not perfect. Hopefully you can understand too.

  95. Fast Eddie says:

    top 25 hedge fund managers made $24 billion in 2013, same as 425,000 public school teachers.

    In 2014, George Soros was number one on the list.

  96. Fast Eddie says:

    Correction: He is tied for No. 2 in 2014 and was numero uno in 2013.

  97. Libturd in Union says:

    Home Buyer (81),

    My grandmother was given a handicapped licensed plate from the State of New York due to the fact she was legally blind. I am not lying.

  98. Anon E. Moose says:

    Tool [84];

    more than their own poverty, they truly hate Newark residents.
    the only way to get at them is by voting republican

    Because relentlessly voting Democrat surely has lifted Newark’s poor out of their situation, and made theirs the shining city on the hill.

  99. Anon E. Moose says:

    X [89];

    You can be stupid and highly educated at the same time.

    Government payroll are packed with those types, mostly because they offer pay increased for worthless credentials, regardless of how little the degree or their holders add to productivity.

  100. D-FENS says:

    Definitely registering to vote as a Democrat this year.

  101. Libturd in Union says:

    “top 25 hedge fund managers made $24 billion in 2013, same as 425,000 public school teachers.”

    Wow…the dullard is now so unsatisfied that rather than just posting tweets, he’s resorted to repeating tweets.

    http://tinyurl.com/anone-image

  102. Anon E. Moose says:

    Blue on Blue! [93]

    anon (the good one) says:

    April 20, 2015 at 2:00 pm

    i bet that, as an example, you at least have a Masters

    Xolepa says:
    April 20, 2015 at 1:57 pm
    You can be stupid and highly educated at the same time.

  103. JJ says:

    I am retiring to Puerto Rico and going on disability cause my Spanish stinks

    A Home Buyer says:
    April 20, 2015 at 1:24 pm
    75 – Lib

    http://www.nbcnews.com/news/latino/lack-english-fluency-disability-n340611

    “Over the past few years, more than 200 residents of Puerto Rico were granted federal disability benefits because they don’t speak English fluently, according to an audit report by the Social Security Administration’s inspector general.”

  104. The Great Pumpkin says:

    Please watch this video. It truly is a simple way to understand why modern economists are stating that the govt debt doesn’t matter in the united states. We are not Greece, so please don’t compare the U.S. to Greece. If you don’t want to watch the whole thing, at least watch for 3 minutes at the 9:35 mark of the video. Rags, please watch this entire video, so that you can understand why the debt doesn’t matter in the sense that you worry about it. Please, just give yourself a chance and open your mind to a new way of thinking about the economy. I’m seriously begging.

    The Great Pumpkin says:
    April 20, 2015 at 1:34 pm
    Unfortunately, all this article proves is that the author doesn’t understand modern economics and where it is heading. He is still stuck on 1800 economic theories and thinks that is the only way to run an economy. It has to be hybrid, that can adjust to whatever problem is facing, and you can’t understand that. You think it can only be one way. You refuse to open your mind and allow it to look at the economy in a different way. You will never ever understand what these modern economists are trying to explain.

    Please watch this video and instead of fighting it, try to understand what he is saying.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YnyDRwSqp2E

  105. The Great Pumpkin says:

    Who cares about Soros.

    Fast Eddie says:
    April 20, 2015 at 2:06 pm
    top 25 hedge fund managers made $24 billion in 2013, same as 425,000 public school teachers.

    In 2014, George Soros was number one on the list.

  106. NJGator says:

    Why are realtors allowed to post this way on the GSMLS. Listed under Glen Ridge. The Brookdale section of Bloomfield is not desirable if you are looking in Glen Ridge.

    3213828 219 STONEHOUSE RD

    Remarks: Glen Ridge Mailing Address with Bloomfield Taxes! Bloomfield Schools. Welcome home to this charming and tastefully maintained 3 bedroom, 1 bath Colonial Home in the sought after Brookdale

  107. Fast Eddie says:

    Who cares about Soros.

    He’s rich, he needs to pay more taxes.

  108. 1987 Condo says:

    hard to believe that Bloomfield taxes are what they are highlighting!

  109. Comrade Nom Deplume, who needs to stop screwing around and get back to work says:

    [85] a none,

    “I dream of a world where the truth is what shapes people’s politics, rather than politics shaping what people think is true.”

    OMG, I nearly choked on my coffee after reading this from you.

    Everyone, help me out: I can’t decide if this is irony, projection or both.

  110. grim says:

    That’s been the story on Stonehouse for years now.

  111. grim says:

    Wasn’t their a stone front center hall colonial on stonehouse that was for sale for almost 10 years?

  112. NJGator says:

    109 – $14,238 in 2014 for Bloomfield schools.

  113. NJGator says:

    Grim 112 – Wasn’t that the one that was short because the owners raided all the equity in the house to buy their next house on Forest Ave?

  114. grim says:

    NJ Transit hiking fares by 9%? Also heard that fares only cover about 20% of NJT operating costs.

    So when I take a round trip express bus from Wayne Park and Ride to Port Authority – which costs $15 plus $1-2 for parking – the cost of that bus ride is actually $85.00?

    Seems it would make more sense to entirely disband NJT and subsidize Uber instead.

  115. anon (the good one) says:

    @CNBC: The secret to becoming a billionaire has been revealed

    @platoon184: @CNBC

    CHEAP LABOR

  116. Ragnar says:

    PumperKins,
    listening to some Australian economist repeat the same general demand side BS that I’ve been inundated with for the last 30 years of my life isn’t going to convince me that we can borrow and spend ourselves rich.

    You are just the perfect example of the Dunning Kreuger effect.
    My only use for you is to be a barometer to convey the popular stupidity of semi-educated left-leaning racists in NJ. Beyond that, you’re worthless to me. But keep up the good work.

  117. FKA 2010 Buyer says:

    I know it’s 4/20 but Yun must have been smoking because this doesn’t sound like a typical NAR stance.

    Few who lost homes in US will buy again soon amid tight credit

    Only about one in four former homeowners who lost property during the housing crash will soon become buyers again as tight credit keeps many out of the U.S. real estate market, according to a National Association of Realtors study.

    Of the 9.3 million owners who went through foreclosure or were forced to sell at a loss, about 950,000 already have bought again and 1.5 million more are likely to make a purchase in the next five years, the trade group said today.

    “They won’t be a significant factor to the housing market going forward,” Lawrence Yun, chief economist at the National Association of Realtors, said in a telephone interview. “The majority of the 9.3 million won’t be coming back.”

    http://www.northjersey.com/news/business/few-who-lost-homes-in-us-will-buy-again-soon-amid-tight-credit-1.1313151

  118. Fast Eddie says:

    NJ Transit hiking fares by 9%?

    One of the few things I truly feel where I’m getting a real value. I’ll gladly pay the extra 9%. The convenience and timliness of taking a train is worth every penny of it.

  119. anon (the good one) says:

    best newspaper in the nation

    @nytimes:

    Breaking News:

    Pulitzer; 3 Awards for New York Times

  120. The Great Pumpkin says:

    Did you even watch the second video for dummies? I think not. That video is loaded with graphs to help you understand why U.S. debt is not the same as your personal debt. Two completely different debts. If you did watch it, then stop attacking me and attack the economics. Tell me again why modern monetary theory doesn’t work presenting facts. Don’t tell me that we can’t borrow and spend our way to rich. You clearly don’t understand an ounce of the economics if you are coming back with ‘we can’t borrow and spend our way to rich”. You clearly don’t understand.

    Ragnar says:
    April 20, 2015 at 3:24 pm
    PumperKins,
    listening to some Australian economist repeat the same general demand side BS that I’ve been inundated with for the last 30 years of my life isn’t going to convince me that we can borrow and spend ourselves rich.

    You are just the perfect example of the Dunning Kreuger effect.
    My only use for you is to be a barometer to convey the popular stupidity of semi-educated left-leaning racists in NJ. Beyond that, you’re worthless to me. But keep up the good work.

  121. Fast Eddie says:

    best newspaper in the nation

    Wall Street Journal. I used to marvel at some of the editorials back when I had time to read it cover to cover. That, and the advice on individual investing techniques and tips for the little guys.

  122. Libturd in Union says:

    When two people can drive in to the city from Essex County for less than taking train, including paying for tolls (which should be labeled extortion booths), parking in Midtown, wear and tear on the car as well as gas. There is definitely something wrong. I can also get in and out in half of the time.

  123. Libturd in Union says:

    “Pulitzer; 3 Awards for New York Times”

    Ooh. I just squirted in my Tommy Johns.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/25/opinion/25fri1.html?ex=&_r=0

  124. Statler Waldorf says:

    Ha, flawless name selection D-FENS.

    http://www.google.com/search?q=D-FENS

  125. The Great Pumpkin says:

    121- Can we all “save” our way to rich? Can we, rags? Tell me exactly what happens to our economy when everyone decides to save and not spend? Please tell me, genius?

    Our economy is based on spending, but you refuse to acknowledge that. You think it’s acceptable to have less than 1% of our population control 90% of the wealth in the economy in a consumer based economy? Is this okay, please explain to me how this is good for a consumer based economy to have 90% of the wealth in less than 1% of the hands. But they earned it, so let them have it all, right? When the economy grinds to a halt, you will understand why.

    “richest 1 percent in the United States now own more wealth than the bottom 90 percent”.[4]

    http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wealth_inequality_in_the_United_States

  126. The Great Pumpkin says:

    Sorry, the video link was for the other video. This is the easy to understand one. Just please tell me what is wrong with the economics if you do not agree. No need to attack each other.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4bXpOUYrr1c

    The Great Pumpkin says:
    April 20, 2015 at 2:39 pm
    Please watch this video. It truly is a simple way to understand why modern economists are stating that the govt debt doesn’t matter in the united states. We are not Greece, so please don’t compare the U.S. to Greece. If you don’t want to watch the whole thing, at least watch for 3 minutes at the 9:35 mark of the video. Rags, please watch this entire video, so that you can understand why the debt doesn’t matter in the sense that you worry about it. Please, just give yourself a chance and open your mind to a new way of thinking about the economy. I’m seriously begging.

    The Great Pumpkin says:
    April 20, 2015 at 1:34 pm
    Unfortunately, all this article proves is that the author doesn’t understand modern economics and where it is heading. He is still stuck on 1800 economic theories and thinks that is the only way to run an economy. It has to be hybrid, that can adjust to whatever problem is facing, and you can’t understand that. You think it can only be one way. You refuse to open your mind and allow it to look at the economy in a different way. You will never ever understand what these modern economists are trying to explain.

    Please watch this video and instead of fighting it, try to understand what he is saying.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YnyDRwSqp2E

  127. Painhrtz - Disobey! says:

    Defens

    Fake bomb at picatinny according to some people I know.

  128. Thomas says:

    91-anon(little-man twit)

    Can you calculate how many teachers could be hired with the billions in endowments these bastions of liberalism Ivy league colleges maintain?

  129. Essex says:

    129. Liberal Arts does not equate to Liberlism. It’s a mistake a lot of people make.

  130. Thomas says:

    130-Are you questioning the Ivy leagues liberal leaning tendancies?

  131. Ragnar says:

    https://mises.org/sites/default/files/Failure%20of%20the%20New%20Economics_3.pdf

    Pumpkin,
    If your lips get tired, you can spread your reading out over multiple sessions.

  132. AG says:

    30k a year to educate a car jacker in Newark. Thank God for the rich. Staying close to the rich is the only reason to live in NJ. Pumpkin go visit your local Walmart. Your g-v keeps those morons alive. The rules of nature would have had them die off years ago.

  133. HouseWhineWine says:

    wages aside, there are plenty of low end, service jobs where the employee works his/her butt off and comes home exhausted. Just because you out earn others, doesn’t mean the “others” aren’t putting in long hours and trying their best. And I see too many white collar workers whose job duties don’t seem too taxing . Almost every job I have had, seems there are always staff who skate by, earn a pretty good living, and don’t do much except surf the internet.

  134. Wily Millenial says:

    > My grandmother was given a handicapped licensed plate from the State of New York due to the fact she was legally blind. I am not lying.

    Blind people can’t ride in the passenger seat? She still needs to walk from the car to the building, right?

    > Can you calculate how many teachers could be hired with the billions in endowments these bastions of liberalism Ivy league colleges maintain?

    I am pretty sure hiring teachers is one of the main things you do with an endowment, they’re just called “professors”.

    .

    Just blowing minds left and right today.

  135. Thomas says:

    136-A sliver of their massive endowments gets spent, where are the calls for them to “spread the wealth”?

  136. Libturd at home says:

    Grandmother lived alone, but that’s fine. Grandpa died before I was born. Was a commercial fisherman.

  137. Essex says:

    131. i wouldn’t really know. I know my cousin is a big Charter School supporter. That is where the lines blur between liberals and conservatives. At some level we are all conservative. If you look at the way we sit up straight in our chairs and count our blessings.

  138. Fabius Maximus says:

    Hard to think that’s its five years already.

    http://350.org/37982/

  139. The Great Pumpkin says:

    132- rags, check this debate out.

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=cUTLCDBONok

  140. Essex says:

    APRIL 20, 2015
    A glassy new tower in New York City attracted an outcry for featuring one entrance for condominium owners and another for low-income tenants.

    But having to walk through a so-called poor door has not deterred those seeking an affordable place to live. As of Monday, the deadline for applying, more than 88,000 people had put their name in for the 55 low-priced units, the developer said.

    “I guess people like it,” said Gary Barnett, founder and president of Extell Development Company, the tower’s developer. “It shows that there’s a tremendous demand for high-quality affordable housing in beautiful neighborhoods.”

  141. Comrade Nom Deplume, the loan snark says:
  142. Punkin’ – rather, a distinction without a difference in your case.

    “I’m much different than the white trash born in West Virginia”

Comments are closed.