Nothing but fantastic journalism from the APP, kudos to Paul D’Ambrosio – This is fantastic…
New Jersey’s regressive property tax system has long drained the wallets of workers and retirees.
As the experience of the Stevenses shows, this ballooning levy has crossed a terrible threshold, one that is pushing homeowners out of state and changing the way we live.
When Gannett New Jersey media examined this issue in 2009 and 2010 in a ground-breaking investigation, it found the tax burden was nearly intolerable, especially since the nation was enthralled in a deep recession, with falling wages, rampant foreclosures and job losses not seen since the Great Depression. Yet, in New Jersey, property taxes actually rose as people lost their jobs.
What’s more, as the national economy improved by 2014, New Jersey lagged in most economic indicators. The state continues to hemorrhage jobs — and residents — to fast-growing southern and western states. Those fleeing are taking billions of dollars with them – money that isn’t being replaced – leaving less capital for the state’s long-stalled economy, and a tax burden resting more heavily on remaining residents.
The loss goes deeper than dollars and cents.
Property taxes are tearing apart the very fabric of communities: Families. Security. Peace of mind.
…
The property tax is New Jersey’s sword of Damocles – archaic, destructive and an intractable harbinger of doom that hangs over the head of each homeowner. The law cares not a whit about your ability to pay, even if you just lost your job.As much maligned as the property tax is, it remains the government’s single most important source for life. It funds schools, police, road repairs, trash collection and a multitude of other government functions.
Five years ago, at the height of the recession, which claimed tens of thousands of jobs and forced sizable salary cuts, the tax drained $25 billion from households. It cost an average of $7,281 per home.
…
Now, half of all tax revenue comes from this levy – $27 billion in 2014 – to fuel 565 towns, 586 school districts and dozens of local agencies with nearly boundless powers to hit your wallet. That’s an average of $8,161 per home.By 2020, at its current pace, the tax will top nearly $30 billion.
That will be an average statewide property tax of $9,000 per home.
Today, tens of thousands of homeowners would cheer a $9,000 bill. The average property tax has already topped $10,000 in three of 21 counties and 127 towns. It is more than $15,000 in 25 towns.
With New Jersey ranking among the bottom in the nation for economic growth, incomes are not about to skyrocket to pay for the escalating local tax costs. In fact, the average household income has gone backward since the recession, when inflation is factored in.
I can’t believe I’m making statements that effectively support Trump.
In his interview with CBS last weekend he had a great line about how people are tired of sending Republican majorities to Congress and continuously losing to the Administration. He continued with the weakness of the leadership and how they get their butts handed to them at every turn.
CBS This Morning has a segment on how the *Republicans* are culpable over Benghazi regarding the investigative committee.
So let me get this straight. A Secretary of State leaves a vulnerable embassy at risk during a heightened period of terrorist activity with enough of a paper trail to indicate that even if she didn’t know better she may have even been forewarned and now somehow the Red team is in trouble?
Ditto on the server. She uses the phrase “trying to be transparent” a hundred and fifty times and gets a pass? Forget the details. Can’t we just go big picture with the ultimate stup1dity of leaving any valuable information on a home computer? Want millennials? Think they’ll understand that concept. Forget your bank account number getting ripped off, she had tens of thousands of State emails flowing through her basement.
It is so easy to make it about trusting her judgment on both issues, which plays into her stratospheric poll negatives about trustworthiness. Instead the Red team gropes around in the dark now getting the *blame* on these issues.
Unbelievable. Can these clowns please stop proving Trump right? Stop snatching defeat from the jaws of victory? Red team leadership is nothing more than a bunch of fearful, low grade, paper shuffling functionaries. Time for a change.
I’m beginning to think that the Trump supporters would back Carson if Trump backed out, for exactly the reasons you mention. To some extent, the other direction, but likely less. That said, if either Trump or Carson back out, it’s over for the rest of the field.
…So I guess, no matter what happens, it’s over for the rest of the field. It’s Trump vs Carson, everyone else is noise.
Grim, great article on property taxes. It’s the main reason New Jersey cannot get off the mat. These high property taxes are crippling for so many residents.
The other hidden tax is the aggressive ticketing by the police. I can drive from Virginia to South Carolina and see maybe one police car doing speed enforcement. This summer I thought for sure I was nailed doing 80mph on a 70 mph road only to be passed by an officer, The guy in front of me with NY plates doing 85 was so sure he even pulled off onto the exit ramp. But the officer passed him too. Typical NY driver decides to put in reverse and back it down the highway ramp to get back on the highway.
The article identifies a problem that is a symptom not a cause. NJ’s fundamental problem is that government spends an unsustainable amount of money per productive resident. Would it really matter if this overspending was funded through higher sales taxes, higher income taxes, or spiraling borrowing, instead of higher property taxes? In the long run, not much. Different funding methods might spread the pain a bit differently, and allow the collapse to happen in a different way, but in the end, the ever-growing welfare/pensioner state is unsustainable, and the only way to reverse the decline is to cut government spending dramatically.
Despite Pumpkin’s self loathing hatred of his country and capitalism…it has brought great strides in human progress and well being…
Angus Deaton Awarded Nobel Prize in Economic Sciences
Professor of Economics and International Affairs at Princeton University wins for his analysis of consumption, poverty, and welfare
http://www.wsj.com/articles/angus-deaton-awarded-nobel-prize-in-economic-sciences-1444649456
Although his chosen profession was famously labelled “the dismal science” by the Victorian historian Thomas Carlyle, Mr. Deaton provided an upbeat assessment of human progress over the last 250 years in his 2013 book, “The Great Escape: Health, Wealth, and the Origins of Inequality.”
“Life is better now than at almost any time in history,” he wrote. “More people are richer and fewer people live in dire poverty. Lives are longer and parents no longer routinely watch a quarter of their children die.”
Across its 370 pages, Mr. Deacon sought to explain why the world is a better place than it used to be, with substantial increases in wealth, health and longevity, but also why there are vast inequalities between and within nations.
He concluded that international aid had little to do with that progress, and suggested that free trade and new incentives for drug companies would make a larger contribution in the future.
His attack on international aid efforts was itself criticized by Bill Gates.
Property Taxes….
If Chris Christie couldn’t do anything about it in his two terms…there’s little hope for the future.
With the possibility of someone like Steve Fulop…the sh1thead hypocrite who himself pays $7000 on a property in JC that should pay 3 times that, I wouldn’t bet on him equitably distributing school aid across the state.
With school funding …by far…the largest portion of your property tax bill, why are we still sending vast sums of school aid to cities like JC and Hoboken? They are no longer poor districts and they aid distribution now favors the rich.
Where is the reform? A $100 million check from Zuckerberg completely evaporated in Newark. An article recently made the point that it only reinforced bad habits in that city by feeding the failing bureaucracy.
Grim, it’s a great article. The solution is to increase sales and income taxes while consolidating the 560 plus townships in order to share services.
Your future Governor
http://www.nj.com/hudson/index.ssf/2015/07/star-ledger_columnist_puts_spotlight_on_fulops_tax.html
In his column today, Star-Ledger scribe Paul Mulshine highlights a Warren County Republican’s complaint that Jersey City Mayor Steve Fulop is only paying $7,700 in property taxes a year on the $739,000 Jersey City Heights home the mayor recently purchased.
“If that house was in my district, he would be paying $25,000 a year,” fumes state Sen. Mike Doherty, by way of making his point that the state is over-subsidizing urban towns such as Newark and Jersey City, particularly when it comes to paying for schools. “We’re paying (the suburban and rural towns are paying) a lot more in and what are we getting from it?”
Mulshine agrees.
Jersey Journal editorial board meeting with Mayor Steve Fulop, July 31, 2014
Jersey City Mayor Steve Fulop sits down for an editorial board meeting with The Jersey Journal on Thursday, July 31, 2014. Reena Rose Sibayan | The Jersey Journal
Reena Rose Sibayan
“Ever since the first income tax was passed in 1976, the big-city politicians have managed to grab a disproportionate amount of state school aid, the primary form of tax relief,” he writes.
Asked for a response, Fulop’s office writes in an email to Mulshine: “…it’s a little creepy that Sen. Doherty would pry closely into the Mayor’s personal life in order to grandstand … If Doherty solved problems in Trenton instead of stalking Mayor Fulop, I’m sure his constituents would actually realize a benefit.”
Mulshine states that Doherty has been trying to cut back on the amount of money going to the urban towns, but he’s met resistance from Gov. Christie, whom he refers to as “the big city’s mayor,” referring to Fulop, “best friend.”
Where is the reform? A $100 million check from Zuckerberg completely evaporated in Newark. An article recently made the point that it only reinforced bad habits in that city by feeding the failing bureaucracy.
It wasn’t enough. They needed another $200 million. :o
re # 7 – Any idea where Fulop now lives? He has a ringside seat to the thug life overlooking the wonderful Hoboken Housing Authority. I don’t care if he is paying 7k taxes, if there were zero taxes I still would still not live there. Fulop is unmarried and has no skin in the game, no kids to raise in Jersey City etc. His next move will be to to the Govenor’s Office once he gets the nod from the party for solidifying and delivering the voting block in Jersey City. Meanwhile the Housing Authority will still be there long after we are all dead.
Zuckerberg apparently didn’t read Angus Deaton’s work explaining that free trade (even in education) and incentives are massively more effective than direct aid.
Sending $100m to Newark public schools is about as effective as sending $100m to Zimbabwe.
Slowly, but surely, in my part of the state, all the parents of our children’s friends are ready to flee Dodge. One’s going to Va., one to Delaware, one to Pa. so on and so on. The parents did their job: raised kids in solid safe neighborhoods with decent school systems. The kids grew up, graduated college, got decent jobs, are on their feet. NO ONE wants to stick around, even though this area is gorgeous. Ever drive on Rte 523 in Delaware township in the fall and see the vistas? New England is right here.
Even the doctors living around the street corner are packing shop. It’s a shame. I will be following them as soon as I can stick it to NJ
Moving to PA makes no sense at all, they are on the same track as NJ, only a few years behind.
When did the Northwest corner of Hoboken get so nice? Jesus, it’s the nicest section of town now, it used to be a complete dump of burned out industrial shells.
Speaking of Hoboken and JC, it’s about time those two towns thought about standing on their own feet. No more abatement, no more Abbott..
(14) Bucks, Northampton and areas north maybe. But these people have gone much further.
And I don’t think Lancaster is dancing NJ’s tango.
re: 15 – “no more Abbott”
How is Jersey City going to replace 1/2 a billion a year in their school budget? Answer is the NJ Supreme Court says never.
We will all be dead folks before it ever changes, give it up already.
Why complain about Fulop and the tax he pays.
Yesterday I posted something where the Koch’s took a tax break to make a steel mill.
The same Koch’s that are against the same tax breaks, or so they say.
This was the response to that:
“I’m fine with that.
Lobby for a change, take the opportunity until it changes.”
So Mr Fulop, lobby for an increase in your taxes. But take the opportunity until it changes……..
14 – PA is a good place to retire if you’re a pensioner.
I agree with getting rid of special breaks for steel mills. Just as we should get rid of mandates forcing utilities to buy solar power, get rid of tax breaks and mandates that push consumption of ethanol, windmills, etc. For every story of crony support for Koch, there are tens of thousands of stories that could be written about the green business lobby, extending from GE to Solyndra, to Tesla. Except journalists assume that’s “good” cronyism, because it’s supporting their friends and causes.
The solution is to get the government out of the economy, beyond protecting property rights, and the government then gets out of the business of subsidizing and punishing one business enterprise over the other.
re # 15 – Almost three years ago it was a soupy mess of sewage and flood water with hundreds of destroyed cars were floating in it, and all 1st floor businesses in that are were wiped out. All those new apartment buildings on the west side of town are built on marshland, that place will always flood. Anyone who buys there is a fool.
Example for shore town in Delaware:
http://www.realtor.com/realestateandhomes-detail/33110-Wandering-Ln_Lewes_DE_19958_M62116-06776
go to Zillow and check out the annual property taxes
[14] grim
Certain areas, absolutely. My property taxes in sylvan ChesCo aren’t significantly lower than the Brig, probably only 30% lower. And since the bulk is school tax, not a lot of wiggle room there
I love this.
http://insider.foxnews.com/2015/10/12/video-kia-ad-dad-changes-football-participation-trophy-writes-champs
Massive debt with ludricous double dipping, cost of living increase pension plans free medical for life, six digit payoffs for unused sick time, 140k to be a secretary on wheels taking an accident report. Like the shared services suggestion Gary
All that unheard of in the private sector unless you’re a CEO of course
re: 26 – Shared Services.
Family member was part of the push under Corzine reign to get the ball rolling, the ball never even bounced once. There is no carrot or stick to make this happen, towns won’t even share a snow shovel since it is someones job to push that shovel. Just take a look at the 20 plus years legal and political battle to combine the Sheriff and County Police in Bergen County. Unless mandated down in Trenton it will never happen.
Totally agree with the article, and I too see many people fleeing as soon as they hit retirement.
One part of the answer is to consolidate towns or services.
For example, why aren’t 2 small towns such as Verona and Cedar Grove merging schools, police forces, etc? Teachers would keep their jobs, but many of the high-paying administrative jobs would be eliminated.
Currently our town Board of Ed has made zero efforts to keep down costs – holding special elections (rather than merging them with town elections or normal school elections) at the drop of a hat, borrowing money constantly for special projects, etc, etc.
And having large police forces for tiny towns throughout the state is definitely overkill. Why not merge?
18 – Pass a law that says when you offer abatement or PILOT to a corporation in order to boost local development, you cannot make up the lost revenue by taking it from the school budget. It must use money from the county or municipal portion of the tax budget to make up the shortage.
Either that or pass a law that just outright says you can’t abate the school portion of the property tax.
Essentially, suburban and exurban residents are subsidizing corporations and wealthy professionals in the city. The school funding formula was never designed for that.
Why not install speed cameras like they do in other countries and eliminate half the police force.
Even if you double the price of a ticket it would still cost you less than having too many officers on the force…
Zuck was buying himself a few politicians, he couldn’t care less about Newark schools. I’m sure he still considers it money well spent.
And the gravy train sure is crowded. Article this weekend, Roxbury pd has two open officer spots, 400 people have applied and completed the pt test. Not as ridiculous as the 900 in Princeton for no open jobs.
23
xolepa,
How far is that property from the beach?
32. Rather work for the Roxbury PD than the Koch brothers……
To the lucky guy who gets the job at the Roxbury PD,
All you need to do in order to not feel guilty about your paycheck/benefits is to lobby against them (or at least tell yourself that you are)
Then it will be ok with the public…..
“I’m fine with that.
Lobby for a change, take the opportunity until it changes.”
32 – I think the number was more like 200 applicants for 2 spots, but the point is still made.
In my job, private sector, if I post a job for a financial analyst, starting salary 50,000 and I get 200 applicants. My first reaction is that I am offering too much. Drop the starting salary offer to 40,000 and recompute. Think the Roxbury PD will offer that? Also – I love the quote from the Daily Record Article:
“There are 42 officers in the Roxbury Police Department, and new officers are only hired when one leaves the department, and that is almost always through retirement. Two will retire at the end of this year, with a potential third also eligible to retire, so Palanchi is looking for two or three to fill the impending vacancies.
Palanchi said there likely won’t be any additional open positions for four years.
“We hired 17 people in the past four years. We hit a wave, but now we’re young,” Palanchi said. “And guys don’t leave here; they want to come here.””
Guys don’t want to leave. I wonder why? Imagine a job where every employee is so happy that they never contemplate leaving the current job for greener pastures. Let’s get honest please – These cops are EXTREMLY well paid and comped via benefits for the work they do. No where in the private sector does a situation like this exist.
Massive debt with ludicrous double dipping, cost of living increase pension plans free medical for life, six digit payoffs for unused sick time, 140k to be a secretary on wheels taking an accident report.
In other words, a bunch of muppets.
Vigoda > EMC
sadly…these comments are spot on….for many people corruption is tolerated, or even preferred, for causes that people have been brainwashed to think are morally superior……
Ragnar says:
October 12, 2015 at 11:44 am
I agree with getting rid of special breaks for steel mills. Just as we should get rid of mandates forcing utilities to buy solar power, get rid of tax breaks and mandates that push consumption of ethanol, windmills, etc. For every story of crony support for Koch, there are tens of thousands of stories that could be written about the green business lobby, extending from GE to Solyndra, to Tesla. Except journalists assume that’s “good” cronyism, because it’s supporting their friends and causes.
The solution is to get the government out of the economy, beyond protecting property rights, and the government then gets out of the business of subsidizing and punishing one business enterprise over the other.
That is the first time I’ve heard of someone moving to California to lower their taxes. Sure he is paying 10k/yr lower property taxes, but he didn’t include the part about paying more income & sales tax which would likely make up the difference. (Of course he should probably just moved out of Montclair). I didn’t realize how high California income taxes were before I checked just now – I’d definitely be more heavily taxed in SF on the same salary.
Perhaps that is a good answer though, raise gas, sales, income taxes and cut property taxes. It would make me feel a lot better about possibly losing my job and not having to get smacked with property taxes.
And yes towns should go, there should be single Police Force/School Board/Services for the whole county or even State.
What is it called when you’re forced to pay a dollar amount on a regular basis or face confiscation?
I thought the same thing. Am I supposed to take this guy’s opinion seriously?
“That is the first time I’ve heard of someone moving to California to lower their taxes. Sure he is paying 10k/yr lower property taxes, but he didn’t include the part about paying more income & sales tax which would likely make up the difference. (Of course he should probably just moved out of Montclair). I didn’t realize how high California income taxes were before I checked just now – I’d definitely be more heavily taxed in SF on the same salary.”
I think this is exactly what we should do. This is what the other states do, so why don’t we? One of the few states that relies on property taxes for the majority of its’ funding and has a million little kingdoms with each having their own little king.
You make a good point about losing your job and not losing your home to property taxes.
“Perhaps that is a good answer though, raise gas, sales, income taxes and cut property taxes. It would make me feel a lot better about possibly losing my job and not having to get smacked with property taxes.
And yes towns should go, there should be single Police Force/School Board/Services for the whole county or even State.”
In other news, rather than concentrate on property taxes, NJ Senate president Stephen Sweeney promises to send state troopers to find absent Republican Lawmakers if they do not show up to vote on an override of Chris Christie’s veto of his gun control bill.
http://www.nj.com/politics/index.ssf/2015/10/sweeney_vows_to_send_nj_state_police_to_find_senat.html#incart_river_home
PRINCETON — Senate President Stephen Sweeney Monday announced there will be another attempt to override Gov. Chris Christie’s veto of a gun control bill next week, and warned his colleagues who dare to be absent: We’ll come find you.
Standing among two dozen elected officials and gun-control advocates, Sweeney said he would “put the house on call” and would use his authority to send State Police to find any of the other 39 senators who are no-shows for the Oct. 22 voting session.
“We’ll go get ’em,” said Sweeney (D-Gloucester). “You’re not going to hide on this one.”
How can we talk about perpetual Abbott and school board consolidation (or opposition thereto) in the same sentences without seeing the connection? My taxes are higher than they otherwise would have been because I picked a town where I wouldn’t have to send my kids to private schools.
Right now Abbott money is state money (“60% of New Jersey’s education aid goes to the Abbotts”); if school boards consolidated statewide, Trenton gets an entirely new (and much larger) pot of money to misappropriate. F&(^ that.
This is the better link…
Christie would shoot down Russian planes- Putin, sit down and shut up!!!
http://www.nj.com/politics/index.ssf/2015/10/christie_on_syria_id_shoot_down_russian_jets_commi.html#incart_most-read_politics_article
43
I wonder if the police who are sent to locate them will be carrying guns.
If you’re paying 12k taxes for a decent town in NNJ, how much of that money goes to Abbotts?
47 – None of it. It goes to your local school.
and now…..for our next trick….
http://php.app.com/taxpain/2015/10/12/windfall-for-tax-assessors/
The whole Jersey City/Hoboken things is such claptrap. No person with any kind of real income is sending there child to the public school there, pretty much every child in the schools is exceedingly poor. If the taxes were not low/abated no one is buying property there and the value for tax dollars paid is bad even with the tax abatements. The end result is the same, the state will be paying for the schools, in one case there is economic activity in these urban areas and construction jobs….in the other case ghettos stay ghettos. Juice FYI where his house is is pretty nice, good views, quite a few hipsters, right by the elevator to the flood zone Grim was talking about how it was now the nicest part of the Boken. Without the abatements/low taxes it would be really affordable private schools and high taxes!
https://www.change.org/p/chris-christie-stephen-sweeney-vincent-prieto-cut-new-jersey-s-property-taxes-now?recruiter=11604897&utm_source=share_petition&utm_medium=copylink
The whole Jersey City/Hoboken things is such claptrap. No person with any kind of real income is sending there child to the public school there, pretty much every child in the schools is exceedingly poor.
Point not taken. The residents have the ability to support their school system, and they should. And Jersey City has McNair.
Ben, McNair is a good school but not necessarily easy to get into even for good students. The same goes for some of the charter schools. But even though that is a good school 51% of kids get supplemental nutrition/free lunch. So the truth is it is an overwhelmingly poor district for the time being and that will only change through the economic incentives to do the redevelopment.
Ben, McNair is a good school but not necessarily easy to get into even for good students. The same goes for some of the charter schools. But even though that is a good school 51% of kids get supplemental nutrition/free lunch. So the truth is it is an overwhelmingly poor district for the time being and that will only change through the economic incentives to do the redevelopment.
You missed the point. There are plenty of wealthy residents and businesses in Jersey City to support their school system. The middle class suburbs should no longer have to do it. I wouldn’t be going by supplemental lunch applications to classify schools. Recent events have more than shown how admin and parents game the system.
re # 50 -That elevator on 9th street is actually known as the Mugger Mover™
By the way, there is always a run around. In CA with prop 13. RE is held by a corporation. Shares of the corporation are what is sold. This way ownership away from the corporation never changes and property taxes say the same. $10 Million Malibu home = 10,000 yr.
54. You are missing my point. The rich here never signed up to pay to support a failing school system that is full of corruption, they will leave, capital goes to where it is treated best. That is the whole point of the PILOT, these people are buying now with the expectation that 20 years from now JC will be rich and the taxes will be more in line with someplace normal. If you add real property tax into the mix JC is at a competitive disadvantage with NYC. You wouldn’t have those residents or businesses without the tax breaks, so no they shouldn’t carry the burden of the public schools. The middle class isn’t shouldering the burden, the entire state does through income tax, which is where the school aid comes from. If you haven’t looked JC or Hoboken for that matter don’t exactly have low property taxes, hence the need for abatements. If you looked at what would happen if they attempt to change this it is clear the poor will be asked to pay for it and it would have negative effects on the revitalization of Jersey City.
55. the Mugger Mover? is that so the project dwellers from Hoboken can rob the illegals who live up in the Heights? The crime rate in JC heights isn’t bad considering it is mostly poor immigrants. I thought that was the sole purpose of the Light Rail it moves the criminals from MLK to downtown JC/Hob, why else would Hoboken’s stops be near the projects.
#29….why would Cedar grove merge with Verona, Verona’s tax rate is 20% higher and has a higher debt load and cost structure.
#21 Well said, your correct. Bravo!
Even more interesting than the main article was the one on Monmouth County and all involved in the reassessment of the County. Now if that’s not corruption, I mean holy crap. Its just a real head scratcher.
Come on do you really think towns are going to share police and major services enough to make a difference? I mean ok, yes they will share lets say a section of recycling so maybe one public job goes bye bye, but these people are not going to let themselves and their family and friends lose jobs. Its like the Fox in charge of the hen house. Nothing will change on that front.
61 – Marilyn, you are correct. Even if the facts are not disputed and the case presented perfectly and logically, there is zero chance that a cop, fireman, trashman, city councilman, etc etc etc will agree to legislate themselves out of existence.
Instead – We sit here and watch the organism feed by eating itself.
Not Juice [56];
If they didn’t see that coming, either they are piss poor incompetent drafters, or were well paid off to leave the loophole in place. I don’t rule out both.
Easiest work around would have been to limit the property tax cap to “natural persons”. Don’t have to chase down every unlisted stock transfer, then. You want to hold your property in a corporation or trust? There’s a price for that protection. (This is not to endorse this approach — I think it sucks. But even someone opposed can see how to implement it better than the way you point out.
Richard [47];
If you’re paying 12k taxes for a decent town in NNJ, how much of that money goes to Abbotts?
D-FENS [48] is right, Abbott money is state money. Your local school taxes go to the school board to fund its operations. That’s how the localities keep control, and they aren’t about to give it up, whether for good reasons or bad ones.
Well my friends just let me know when you think its time to dump Vanguards NJ tax free bond fund. I really need to clear out of Nj 100 percent now. Im afraid i will be in BBQ coma in Raleigh and not notice im screwed, Having gas and heart burn from all this Southern stuff really can brain damage you. Time to start looking for a new investment.
One last thing , the only things I miss about Nj is how bad it was. You get used to that quality that is hard to replicate somewhere else. No seriously, I am always lurking here and I love all of you. Yes even the ones that I dont agree with. Now I am making a trip back soon, The disability case who bought my house is finally closing on his house. Only in NJ can a man of disability own 2 houses, a Harley and new p/u.
Man of disability, 2 houses, Harley and new pick up.
Did he look like this guy?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KyRHAvfA6Eg
67 HAHA!!!1!!1 More like butthead!!!!
Call someplace paradise, kiss it goodbye.
66. my trips to NC have always marveled at how “green” it is there and how absolutely similar every other strip mall looks. I think a place like that — at least after living here — would be somewhat boring.
I think what people miss about public education is that schools generally take who is around and teach them. It’s a necessary evil and turning it over to some private firm is absolutely no guarantee that they’ll be run better. In fact my guess is that any stability that some schools enjoy now would be blown away by “school choice”…..
19/35 phoenix
Got a little under your skin there huh?
There is a big difference between Koch Bros and the Roxbury PD or Fulop situations.
Koch actually does lobby against the government subsidies available. Roxbury PD or Fulop lobby FOR the benefits they get from the govt teet…….
Isn’t that one of the selling points?
Essex says:
October 12, 2015 at 5:21 pm
my guess is that any stability that some schools enjoy now would be blown away by “school choice”…..
You are missing my point. The rich here never signed up to pay to support a failing school system that is full of corruption, they will leave, capital goes to where it is treated best. That is the whole point of the PILOT, these people are buying now with the expectation that 20 years from now JC will be rich and the taxes will be more in line with someplace normal. If you add real property tax into the mix JC is at a competitive disadvantage with NYC. You wouldn’t have those residents or businesses without the tax breaks, so no they shouldn’t carry the burden of the public schools. The middle class isn’t shouldering the burden, the entire state does through income tax, which is where the school aid comes from. If you haven’t looked JC or Hoboken for that matter don’t exactly have low property taxes, hence the need for abatements. If you looked at what would happen if they attempt to change this it is clear the poor will be asked to pay for it and it would have negative effects on the revitalization of Jersey City.
I know, they signed up to be the beneficiaries of welfare provided to them by the suburbs. With the way real estate prices have moved in NYC, I seriously doubt forcing JC to pay reasonable property taxes comparable to non-abbot towns is going to put them at a competitive disadvantage. Bottom line, the continued classification of JC or Hoboken as an Abbott is unfair. They are no longer in the same financial position as a city like Elizabeth. The sooner JC starts paying for their own school system, the sooner they will be forced to spend an appropriate amount. Right now, they are on the Abbott gravy train and spending way too much and none of it makes it into the classroom. The spigot turning off would be a good thing all around.
We need another Zuckerberg to make things right for JC
74. Again they are abbott because the students are dirt poor. The rich yuppies aren’t getting a great deal, they pay 12-15k in PILOT payments for a 2 bedroom apartment which includes nothing, they get no garbage, they get no policing, they have private security, and their own infrastructure. As a result of the existing PILOTs taking the aid will only result in non abated properties paying far more in taxes. In Hoboken because the vast majority of the town has been gentrified one could make the argument that the aid should end and I suspect on it’s own it will. Jersey City has a horrible ghetto, that is not gentrifying that is a massive drain on the cities finances. Even with all of the state aid JC has an effective tax rate of 2%, just ask the people who bought abated condos in porte liberty in the 1980’s how much the property taxes sting. Yes if downtown jersey city was it’s own city they would have low taxes and could afford to pay for their schools but the rest of it is not disneyland. The aid will end eventually once the gentrification is complete.
#70 Ohh I can see that point definitely. However living in the inner belt in Raleigh is like old Englewood Cliffs. There is an old charm to the inner belt in Raleigh. However its not any cheaper than NJ. I personally love it here. I love it for so many reasons. But I could see where one could get bored. I was bored in NW NJ. To me this is wonderful. I love having a great house, huge, low property tax , conservative thinking and yes a very religious bible belt quality. For me this is so much better than wacked out libs stealing my hard earned money to give to Paco. Great house, great people , more money in my pocket and mild winter. NO brainer.
read the article and you tell me how many will love NJ when they are broke paying for Paco and Guido on the force.
NJ is like drug addiction, a lot of denial going on.
Life can be boring, its what you make of it. With more money in my pocket, life gets less boring because I can do things,not just sit in my house in NJ and pay thru the ass. Im not bored. Heading all over w/ all the extra dough. Greenville, TN, Wilmington soon, Charleston soon, moutains of va, tn , sc along w/ NC mountains. Bored, no way. Money cures that problem. In NJ I was too broke.
South Carolina gets $7.87 for every $1 it collects in Federal tax and you are complaining giving to Guido in NJ. I forgot it is better to be a taker.
Im not giving it to Guido, you are now. Im in NC not SC. Ohh well thanks for your comment