From APP:
With rent of $1,160 a month in Asbury Park taking up most of her family’s income, Susan Aquino began to search for a new apartment that would give her some breathing room.
The hunt didn’t last very long.
“We were looking for two bedrooms, and they were … $1,500 to $1,700 between October and March,” said Aquino, 43.
Aquino is part of a troublesome story playing out across New Jersey and the U.S. in the 10 years since the housing bubble peaked and then burst in a ruinous crash: As real estate has climbed back, homeowners are thriving while renters are struggling.
For many longtime owners, times are good. They’re enjoying the benefits of growing equity and reduced mortgage payments from ultra-low interest rates.
But for America’s growing class of renters, surging costs, stagnant pay and rising home values have made it next to impossible to save enough to buy.
The possible consequences are bleak for a state already grappling with economic inequality: Whatever wealth most Americans possess mainly comes from home equity. An enlarged renter class means fewer Americans can build that same wealth and financial security.
…
Nearly two-thirds of adults still own homes. And some who rent do so by choice. Yet ownership has become a more distant dream for the many Americans who still regard it as a route to prosperity and pride. The problem has become especially severe in areas that offer the best job prospects as well as those that have been battered by foreclosures.“It doesn’t paint a pretty picture,” said Svenja Gudell, chief economist at Zillow, the online real estate database company. “You’re really blocking out a group of buyers from owning a home. They’re truly living paycheck to paycheck, and that does not put them into a good position to buy.”
…
New Jersey’s homeownership rate has dropped more precipitously – from a peak of 71.3 percent in the first quarter of 2005 to 60.9 percent 11 years later, according to data from Patrick J. O’Keefe, director of economic research for CohnReznick, an accounting firm.That demand has driven up rents, which in turn have prevented or delayed people from buying first homes.
The government says if you spend more than 30 percent of your pretax pay on housing, you are “cost-burdened.” The total number of renters in that category has jumped more than 30 percent in the past decade, to 21.2 million. Half of all renters are now considered cost-burdened, compared with just 24 percent in 1960.
In the New York-Newark-Jersey City metropolitan statistical area, which includes Monmouth and Ocean counties, the trend is the same. Some 51.6 percent of renters are considered cost-burdened, up from 48.5 percent when the Great Recession technically ended in 2009, the AP data shows.
By comparison, 40.1 percent of homeowners are considered cost-burdened, down from 41.1 percent in 2009, according to AP’s data.
Seems like a relatively balanced set of new taxes and elimination of problematic taxes. Certainly quite a few beneficial changes that would keep retirees in state.
From the Star Ledger:
N.J. lawmakers introduce 23 cent increase in gas tax
The details of the legislation, an elaborate blend of tax cuts and hikes, unveiled earlier this month, have changed. But the plan still raises the gas tax in exchange for the elimination of the estate tax, a greater exemption for retirement income, an increase in the Earned Income Tax Credit for low-income workers, and creation a tax deduction for charitable giving.
….
Under one of the bills, the state would levy a 12.5 percent tax on petroleum products that refineries are expected to pass onto the consumer. At current prices, that amounts to nearly 23 cents on every gallon of gas on top of the existing 14.5 cent-per-gallon tax.
The tax wouldn’t be charged against pre-tax gas prices over $3, so the per gallon gas tax would never exceed more than 52 cents per gallon, which is unlikely based on projections for gas prices.
Based on current gas prices, drivers would pay about 37.5 cents per gallon — the seventh highest in the U.S.
It would also impose a 7 percent tax, about 13 cents a gallon, on jet fuel.
The sweeping legislation also cuts hundreds of millions of dollars in taxes paid by wealthy New Jerseyans, retirees and the working poor.
The most controversial of the cuts, the phasing out of the estate tax over three years, would lose the state $540 million a year in revenue once it is fully eliminated. It’s estimated about 4 percent of estates are subject to the estate tax each year.
Residents filing jointly also will not have to pay income taxes on retirement income, including pensions, up to $100,000, up from $20,000. The new limit is $75,000 for individuals and $50,000 for those married by filing separately. The newly revised plan also gives a tax break, though smaller, to residents collecting up to $150,000 a year in retirement income.
Additionally, a popular tax credit for about a half million low-income workers here would increase from 30 percent of the federal credit to 40 percent as proposed by Prieto.
The package incorporates a charitable donations tax deduction hatched by by Republicans to encourage and reward in-state giving.
Oft discussed topic.
Authorship may influence conclusions, but at quick glance the data seems to hold water.
“For more than sixty years, the share of American men between the ages of 25 and 54, or “primeage men,” in the labor force has been declining. This fall in the prime-age male labor force participation rate, from a peak of 98 percent in 1954 to 88 percent today, is particularly troubling since workers at this age are at their most productive; because of this, the long-run decline has outsized implications for individual well-being as well as for broader economic growth.”
https://www.whitehouse.gov/sites/default/files/page/files/20160620_cea_primeage_male_lfp.pdf
Living in his car in Hoboken for 18 months?
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3651241/Authorities-Man-Vegas-rally-said-wanted-kill-Trump.html
1.
Seeing a pretty large middle class squeeze here.
The gas tax that affects everyone – and is most regressive – goes from among the lowest in the nation to 7th highest.
The beneficiaries of the offsets? 4% of the population with large estates. Persons with annual retirement incomes of $100k-$150k. Persons making significant charitable donations. The poor.
Would love to see a bell curve of income distribution in the State with those areas benefited by the tax cuts highlighted. Thinking the fat middle of the curve stays the same color……
The point isn’t to make it easy for the middle class, it’s to stem the outflow of wealthier residents and retirees, no?
Clearly their end-game is trickle down.
I think even the democrats realize that the pension cash outflow will kill us. It’s like sending remittances to every state but here.
The jet fuel tax is a big sneaker though.
I don’t know the exact math, but I’m going to bet it’s going to be close to $100 million in taxes to the airlines.
I suspect that covers about 1/3rd of the estate tax revenue loss.
Nom [57, yesterday];
I foresee no federal charges in his [the man who attempted to kill Trump] future.
How many ways can we say it: “How do you prosecute a guy for doing exactly what the government ordered him to do?“
Estate tax and retirement income taxes hits NJ’s middle class.
The only way it “helps” the wealthy is that they don’t have to execute greater tax avoidance strategies.
Most of NJ’s retiring middle class avoids these taxes by simply moving their corporate headquarters (aka residency) to Florida. You know, like an inversion.
The way they snuck multiple changes in at the last minute tells you everything you need to know. The special interests got their say and the middle class got the shaft.
I agree the state had to address the estate and pension taxes. Whether anyone would admit it before or not, the cumulative effects of losing 50k monied residents and backfilling them with mostly illegals is crippling. That has already taken a toll on budgets throughout the state and will continue.
So, yeah, the whole plan shifts more of the burden to the middle and lower middle working classes while more giveaways for the wealthy, poor and public retirees.
And I do think the repeal of the estate tax will have an inflationary(perhaps slight) effect on housing prices. There will be a slowdown in retirees fleeing which will reduce the housing turnover. I wonder if there will even be a return flow of retirees whose primary reason for leaving was the estate tax, there are MANY who fall into that group.
You have to read it to believe it. Obama and the left are succeeding in killing off the rule of law.
http://www.cnn.com/2016/06/20/politics/sotomayor-supreme-court-dissent-utah-strieff/index.html
I’m waiting for a couple of flyover states to start militia registrations. Then it will be game on.
#11 Comrade – Killing the rule of law? Please explain further. That is an awfully broad interpretation.
What do militias have to do with this case?
Seems counterintuitive – it disproportionately impacts the poor and poor minorities.
In fact, on NPR yesterday I heard a short snippet which made a good argument that this would most likely manifest itself in an increase in arrests/charges for minor drug offenses, as evidence associated with possession would have been previously inadmissible if the stop had no reasonable suspicion.
On Trump attempted assassinator. Has a history of autism and obsessive compulsive disorder, court heard. I’m surprised he didn’t just go to a gun show to get a gun. He had the prerequisites.
He was an illegal alien?
You sure Trump didn’t pay the guy? These talking points are priceless.
I didn’t think I would care, but jeez this blog feels as if the hurricane has finally passed……
Thanks for reminding us when the police unlawfully stop someone… it’s not against the law (Webster’s tears aside) it’s just a mistake.
http://bigstory.ap.org/article/1ef09db1314f4d749a574b3dcb3e5871/supreme-court-rules-police-search-case
WASHINGTON (AP) — A divided Supreme Court bolstered police powers on Monday, ruling that evidence of a crime in some cases may be used against a defendant even if the police did something wrong or illegal in obtaining it.
The 5-3 decision drew heated dissents from liberal justices who warned that the outcome would encourage police to violate people’s rights.
The ruling comes in a case in which a police detective illegally stopped defendant Joseph Edward Strieff on the streets of South Salt Lake City, Utah. A name check revealed an outstanding warrant for him.
Police Detective Doug Fackrell arrested Strieff and routinely searched him, finding that he was carrying methamphetamine.
The case raised the question of whether the valid warrant outweighs the stop, which was illegal because Fackrell lacked any reasonable suspicion that Strieff had been violating the law. It was the court’s latest case that questions whether evidence should be thrown out of court because the police did something wrong or illegal that led to the discovery of the evidence.
Justice Clarence Thomas said for the court that the officer’s actions were not a flagrant violation of the law. “While Officer Fackrell’s decision to initiate the stop was mistaken, his conduct thereafter was lawful,” Thomas wrote.
http://bigstory.ap.org/article/1ef09db1314f4d749a574b3dcb3e5871/supreme-court-rules-police-search-case
I’m curious as well
30 year realtor says:
June 21, 2016 at 9:10 am
#11 Comrade – Killing the rule of law? Please explain further.
5/8.
“Estate tax and retirement income taxes hits NJ’s middle class.”
Not sure on that one. If the estate tax change is affecting the top 4% that by definition is not the middle class? And while I’m less versed on pensions if one takes out the civil servants I have to think to obtain a *pension* of $100k-$150k one lived better than a middle class lifestyle?
“The point isn’t to make it easy for the middle class, it’s to stem the outflow of wealthier residents and retirees, no?”
Why should the government be in the business of having a social engineering ‘point’ at all?
Gas Tax;
Ho hum. Talking about the gas tax in the abstract is pointless. Every state has a tax scheme designed to bleed by a thousand cuts. Imagine Delaware implemented a sales tax — grossly inequitable in the larger scheme of Delaware taxation (Does anyone realize how much they make off of tickets and tolls for ~10 miles of I-95?!?). Not to mention the cottage industry of big box retailers who set up shop just within its borders to take advantage of the arbitrage.
New Jersey has its own mix, with an income tax, high property taxes, but low gas tax. What is the quid pro quo to residents for accepting a gas tax?
re # 9 – “The way they snuck multiple changes in at the last minute”
Err naw it has been discussed for a long while in the news.
http://search.nj.com/estate+tax/
Higher gas tax for eliminating the estate tax. Every penny increased will generate another $50 million in tax revenue, and perhaps the rich won’t flee.
And, it would appear to me the Repugs really got snookered on this one.
For a massive tax increase to fund a need with broad based consensus (Transport Fund) they made an unnecessary deal to exchange estate tax relief that is easily obtained currently with a halfway competent attorney for the ability of the Dems to comp a good part of their power base out of state income taxes in perpetuity.
So the Repugs get support for 4% of their (soon to pass away) base too lazy to estate plan while the Dems get credit from anyone with a municipal pension from now until they drop dead? Yeah, that’s a good trade……
Anyone know where I can join a Statehouse Republican poker night game?
Simply put, Sotomayors position suggests that law must be viewed, interpreted, implemented, and even legislated with a view toward race. This case didn’t involve a minority yet the Justice went off on a Black Lives Matter theme in a situation where it was clearly not called for.
Further (and this will piss off Joyce), I had thought that this area of law was long settled, that the exclusionary rule was to deter police misconduct, not police mistakes. Finally, I disagree with the lower court: there was reasonable suspicion here, which is a very low bar. Let’s review: house under surveillance for drug dealing. Nonresident enters house and later emerges. Right there, you have grounds for a stop.
[21] moose
You don’t know the bypass around the Delaware tolls? Adds several minutes unless tolls are backed up, then there’s no time hit and you save $4 for an extra pint of gas. If that.
re # 24- Nom you are forgetting the check your privilege, it is no longer about the rule of law anymore.
[15] lib
How do we know he didn’t? He might have an adjudication on record. Or a gun shop said “nope, you’re squirrelly”. Or he might be an illegal, which was in the CNN account I read.
[26] juice
That is more or less my point. Had Sotomayor written an opinion like that in the lower court, I’ve no doubt she wouldn’t be hearing cases on 1st Street, NE today.
A higher NJ gas tax means I pay more in tax. To PA and DE. That’s my problem.
NJ thus will see less money from me. And since Delaware will be lower than NJ, all those folks who used to tank up before crossing the state line, won’t. They’ll tank up in DE or MD if driving I95. I’ve no idea how much gas NJ “exports” to out of state drivers who tank up while in state but I’m sure it’s a substantial amount. Whether that results in deadweight loss remains to be seen but you can expect a significant hit to sales, and thus gas and income tax revenues. That’s your problem.
re # 28 – over on the fair and balanced side of the internet they are rejoicing in the jurisprudence of empathy.
#22
Juice, I didn’t remember hearing anything about raising the retirement income exception to 100k for couples until yesterday. That’s supposed to cost the state upwards of $100M.
Working people will have to make up the difference. How long before there is an income tax hike, 2 years? Or will bracket creep close the difference.
In the big picture it doesn’t makes sense to tie all of the increases and reductions together. It’s really about horse trading and picking winners and losers.
If NJ wishes to encourage retirees to stay, it could do what my county does – eliminate the school tax portion of property taxes for those over age 62. It would mean a tremendous loss of revenue for local boards of education but NJ schools cost way too much anyway.
Are you really suggesting that that is the RS standard? That is no standard at all.
Comrade Nom Deplume. Citizen, 2nd Class. says:
June 21, 2016 at 10:23 am
there was reasonable suspicion here, which is a very low bar. Let’s review: house under surveillance for drug dealing. Nonresident enters house and later emerges. Right there, you have grounds for a stop.
1) How do distinguish? 2) Distinction without a difference in the non-govt world
Comrade Nom Deplume. Citizen, 2nd Class. says:
June 21, 2016 at 10:23 am
that the exclusionary rule was to deter police misconduct, not police mistakes.
During the last PA budget impasse there was a movement to eliminate the statewide property tax and offset it with an income tax increase.
How is that for a boomer inspired screw job for the working ages? If you look at the demographics of the winners in this NJ deal, the boomers win again. Not only do they get their income tax reduced or eliminated, but their driving is almost entirely leisure(except for the Dr office I suppose) so they can choose not to do it. Working people have to gas up and go no matte what.
We wouldn’t need a gas tax if they stopped installing those million dollar scoreboards all up and down the GSP and NJTP. Worst of all, they never warn you when lanes are closed ahead, or to take alternative routes to avoid the inevitable 12 mile traffic jam just two miles up the road.
re #31 – It was submitted back in February, they want to keep the old geezers here so they can stuff them in $8,000 a month assisted living centers. I know a guy that owns one down here in Monmouth, they are literally dying to get it. Sen. Jennifer Beck our Senator and others were bhind it.
Bill is here
http://www.njleg.state.nj.us/2016/Bills/S1000/998_I1.PDF
re: # 32 -re”eliminate the school tax portion of property taxes for those over age 62.”
Seniors can already freeze their property taxes in NJ, my mom did years ago and she gets a check back most years from the State.
Property Tax Reimbursement (Senior Freeze)
http://www.state.nj.us/treasury/taxation/ptr/
But removing 2/3rds of the municipal tax bill for those over 62? The Teachers would be up in arms along with the rest of the taxpayers, the system for school funding is all ready a wreck a change like that would never pass.
[33] Joyce
Once again, we’re going to have to agree to disagree. I’ve never the time nor inclination to write a law review article on the subject, and you wouldn’t believe it anyway.
#37
It doesn’t surprise me but again it makes no sense from a coherence policy perspective. Why tie gas taxes which have a very narrow use(are supposed to) to all of these other exceptions?
The answer is of course lobbying and quid pro quo.
re # 40 – quid pro quo? It is not a crime to lobby.
Education is a public good.
Exempting anyone from paying school taxes is idiotic.
re # 42 – Except if there are a disabled veteran or their widow.
I know of one no tax bill at all.
http://www.state.nj.us/treasury/taxation/lpt/lptdisv.shtml
And Sotomayor can go on about race, but the continued evisceration of the 4th amendment continues and those that dissented are correct on that.
You’re right I wouldn’t believe you don’t have the time.
Comrade Nom Deplume. Citizen, 2nd Class. says:
June 21, 2016 at 11:16 am
[33] Joyce
Once again, we’re going to have to agree to disagree. I’ve never the time nor inclination to write a law review article on the subject, and you wouldn’t believe it anyway.
Cumon Joyce you have to admit without the Police Hunches our jails would be nearly empty. How is that good for business?
Exactly
Comrade,
Btw, you’re claiming the police had RS while the supreme court said they did not (albeit it was a mistake, not illegal as the state court said).
Comrade Nom Deplume. Citizen, 2nd Class. says:
June 21, 2016 at 11:16 am
[33] Joyce
Once again, we’re going to have to agree to disagree. I’ve never the time nor inclination to write a law review article on the subject, and you wouldn’t believe it anyway.
It does indeed feel like old times.
These idiots like Oroho also fail to understand the LAffer curve. Currently 1/3 of the gas tax is paid by out of state motorists. How will that ratio change after this massive hike?
Sussex County I think has the longest average commute in the state, so he just dropped the hammer on his constituents. I hope the send this guy packing next election.
Sold for 699K in 05/2005; currently asking 685K:
http://www.trulia.com/property/3233398623-46-Maria-Dr-Hillsdale-NJ-07642#photo-1
I’m gonna be buying my gas wherever it’s the cheapest. I’m in Philly three times a week and this tax will definitely make their prices cheaper than ours which is odd since their gas taxes are higher. Sorry NJ. But you just lost your $50 bucks a month in gas taxes that I’ve been paying for the past three months. And if anyone has noticed the lines that form at the rest areas at the north and south ends of the Turnpike and GSP especially on holiday weekends, well that revenue will be lost as well.
50 – Oroho was in between a rock and a hard place. The majority of his constituents drive to jobs outside their home county to work everyday…they will be hit the hardest.
However much of the aid that goes to towns would also be cutoff…forcing towns to raise property taxes even further. That would have absolutely devastated what is left of the real estate market in the exurbs.
Nobody had the balls or political capital to raise the tax gradually over the years…or try and run things more efficiently later. I still think we need to reform and consolidate all these separate transportation authorities in the state. It’s far too bureaucratic.
Things have to get to crisis mode in this state for anyone to act.
42 how about if you use more you pay more?
I already traded up and got rid of my older car that got 20mpg highway to one that gets 29mpg. The altima still has some life left in it but when I trade up…the new one gets 39mpg.
If you like AWD, there’s a new segment within the auto industry called subcompact SUV’s. Everyone is trying to take a bite out of Subaru’s marketshare. You can get a 4 door subcompact that gets as much as 32mpg highway with AWD…on a plain old (non-hybrid) gasoline motor.
Just buy less gas.
Libturd questioning the gender of Hillary’s Cankle fluid. says:
June 21, 2016 at 12:05 pm
I’m gonna be buying my gas wherever it’s the cheapest. I’m in Philly three times a week and this tax will definitely make their prices cheaper than ours which is odd since their gas taxes are higher. Sorry NJ. But you just lost your $50 bucks a month in gas taxes that I’ve been paying for the past three months. And if anyone has noticed the lines that form at the rest areas at the north and south ends of the Turnpike and GSP especially on holiday weekends, well that revenue will be lost as well.
Nix Farmland assessments and PILOT.
grim says:
June 21, 2016 at 11:23 am
Education is a public good.
Exempting anyone from paying school taxes is idiotic.
49.
LOL, now Joyce has the time to go back to spanking Nom.
http://www.kbb.com/car-news/all-the-latest/2016-subcompact-suv-comparison-intro/2100000514/
#53
If he had any cajones he’d go after the causes(COHA, Abbott, etc.) of escalating cost in the state instead.
D-Fens [55];
Just buy less gas.
The funny thing is that when an individual makes an effort to buy less gas, all they do is reduce demand, making it cheaper for others to NOT buy less gas. That’s why the whole environmental conservation movement on this front is destined to fail. But then again, saving the environment isn’t the real point of it, so its adherents don’t care.
How about buy less government?
61 – What he said
Lib [61];
How about buy less government?
YES! Buy less government; the price of government goes down. Economists call that positive externalities.
But seriously, everyone who complains about money in politics wants to increase the size and influence of government. If government were less powerful, its favors would be worth less, and rational people (businesses) would spend less to curry that favor. Ergo: less money in government!
Joyce,
Whatever. I’m not pumpkin. I do have work to do and am way behind.
The reported facts give textbook reasonable suspicion. Not my problem if some Obama or Clinton appointee decides to reinterpret the law at the trial or circuit level. IMHO, this creates no new law. Rather, I suspect the Court took it to fill in a gap created by a lower court.
[60] moose
That’s why I don’t buy a Pious. I’ll let Fabmax bring down the cost for me. Oh, and I’m all for that hybrid/EV tax that replaces the lost gas taxes.
The other punch in the face to the exurbs with the gas tax increase is that the sierra club fights every mass transit expansion into that area tooth and nail. There aren’t really any alternatives if you live and work in NJ.
What is the consensus about whether the proposed tax changes will actually pass?
I would personally love to stay in NJ when I retire. Soon, I hope!
I love my house and I don’t feel like uprooting myself, at least not for a long time. These tax changes definitely would help convince us to stay.
REVIEW & OUTLOOK
Two Can Play at Climate ‘Fraud’
If Exxon can be sued, why can’t Al Gore for exaggerations that help his investments?
Eric Schneiderman and Sheldon Whitehouse, call your office. The New York Attorney General and Rhode Island Senator who helped to launch the prosecution of dissent on climate change may not like where their project is headed. Thirteen state Attorneys General have sent a letter pointing out that if minimizing the risks of climate change can be prosecuted as “fraud,” then so can statements overstating the dangers of climate change.
That’s the news contained in a letter that the Republican AGs of Alabama, Alaska, Arizona, Arkansas, Louisiana, Michigan, Nebraska, Nevada, Oklahoma, South Carolina, Texas, Utah and Wisconsin dispatched to Mr. Schneiderman and other AGs on June 15.
“We think this effort by our colleagues to police the global warming debate through the power of the subpoena is a grave mistake,” says the letter. “Using law enforcement authority to resolve a public policy debate undermines the trust invested in our offices and threatens free speech.”
It sure does, not least by politicizing fraud prosecutions even more than they already are. Mr. Schneiderman and some 15 other Democratic AGs are targeting only one side of the climate debate—i.e., fossil-fuel companies or think tanks that question climate orthodoxy. Mr. Schneiderman claims that Exxon’s disclosure about the risks of climate change has been inadequate, though the oil company has discussed such risks in its 10-K disclosures filed with the Securities and Exchange Commission, among other places.
But the AGs’ letter points out that, “If Exxon’s disclosure is defic!ent, what of the failure of renewable energy companies to list climate change as a risk?” If climate change turns out to be less serious than advertised, then “‘clean energy’ companies may become less valuable and some may be altogether worthless,” the letter adds.
Think SolarCity, or investments made by the venture-capital firm Kleiner Perkins Caufield & Byers where Al Gore is a senior partner. Mr. Gore showed up at Mr. Schneiderman’s March 29 press conference for AGs United for Clean Power and blamed climate change for the spread of the Zika virus, flooding in the Midwest and Hurricane Sandy. “Every night on the news now it’s like a nature hike through the Book of Revelation,” Mr. Gore said. These unproven claims arguably mislead investors about the value of clean-energy companies.
But to do so you had to buy more car (new payment or at least higher payments).
D-FENS says:
June 21, 2016 at 12:14 pm
I already traded up and got rid of my older car that got 20mpg highway to one that gets 29mpg. The altima still has some life left in it but when I trade up…the new one gets 39mpg.
If you like AWD, there’s a new segment within the auto industry called subcompact SUV’s. Everyone is trying to take a bite out of Subaru’s marketshare. You can get a 4 door subcompact that gets as much as 32mpg highway with AWD…on a plain old (non-hybrid) gasoline motor.
Just buy less gas.
The letter from the 13 Republican AGs asks, “Should these statements justify an invest!gation into all contributions to environmental non-profits by Kleiner Perkins’s partners?” They quickly add that they want to undertake no such action. But they deserve credit for pointing out the pol!tical Pand0ra’s box that left-w!ng AGs have opened by “pol!cing viewpoints” on climate change.
We don’t think anyone should be pros5cuted for engag!ng in polit!cal debate, but progr5ssives have shown (see independent counsels) that they’ll cease their abuses only when the same methods are used against them.
political
re: # 51 – That house probably became part of the watershed during Irene and Sandy.
progessive
progressive
prosecuted
engaging
investigation
policing
help? what sent my post into the X-files?
NJ school districts pay about twice per pupil as districts in other parts of the country and achieve similar results. I guess the reason is the higher cost of living which is, in part, caused by the high salaries and benefits of the teachers. I know of no other profession that requires a BA only, no calculus or other tough courses, pays $52,000 to start and comes with 15 weeks of vacation.
For what it’s worth:
The Utah Supreme Court held the stop/search was unlawful in unanimous decision 5-0. That is unlawful and not a mistake. Justice Thomas Lee authored the opinion who was nominated by a republican governor (governor appointed two others that joined in the opinion). The Chief Justice who joined the opinion was nominated by a different republican governor… and finally, the last of the five who joined in the opinion was nominated by a democratic governor.
Comrade Nom Deplume. Citizen, 2nd Class. says:
June 21, 2016 at 12:37 pm
Joyce,
Whatever. I’m not pumpkin. I do have work to do and am way behind.
The reported facts give textbook reasonable suspicion. Not my problem if some Obama or Clinton appointee decides to reinterpret the law at the trial or circuit level. IMHO, this creates no new law. Rather, I suspect the Court took it to fill in a gap created by a lower court.
72 – I’m on borrowed time as it is. My altima is 10 years old and the paint is peeling off. I had already planned on buying a car in the next year or two…the increase in the gas tax may push me into a sedan rather than a crossover and will make fuel economy a more important factor in the decision.
85
While that’s all true, my response would have been the same as LW in 20
ChiFi – Love it. Dems have never heard “what’s sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander.”
I’m against anything Clarence Thomas is for.
You could pull over a lot of cars with Pennsyltucky plates on 78 and find stuff like this.
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-06-21/3-heavily-armed-people-arrested-holland-tunnel-way-new-york-city
Now he wants to do something about it? What took so long?
http://www.nj.com/education/2016/06/christie_nj_school_funding_announcement.html#incart_2box_nj-homepage-featured
This is Christie’s way of farting, then sneaking out of the room.
Buried over at CNN
http://www.philly.com/philly/news/politics/20160622_Fattah_convicted_of_federal_corruption_charges.html?mobi=true
How long would it take the court to rule on Abbott #14 should this pass?
D-FENS says:
June 21, 2016 at 2:32 pm
Now he wants to do something about it? What took so long?
http://www.nj.com/education/2016/06/christie_nj_school_funding_announcement.html#incart_2box_nj-homepage-featured
Great move by Christie. Basically he’s calling out the Abbotts for mismanaging their town affairs to the detriment of their school districts. Shift the burden to them to make sure they are running their towns “efficiently”. Why should the rest of the state be making massive subsidy payments to Jersey City schools so they can offer tax abatements?
94 because activist liberal judges said the rest of the state must pay for these didtricts! Obviously years later and billions later it is proven that money is not the issue!
83.?? $52k – is this is your idea of a decent salary … ?
On a more serious note –
USA v Argentina tonight. What’s the board’s thoughts on final score. I’ll take Argentina 4-1. 1-1 at HT with Argentina pulling away early in the second half and never looking back.
96 – I will answer that – Yes that is a very decent starting salary. Imagine a married couple, both teachers with 5 years experience each making $62,000 by the time they marry. Combined income of $114,000. That puts them at appx. 150% of the median income with a solid benefits package, 15 weeks vacation and a pension. That is a very nice income range. Sure – It isn’t going to get you a Range Rover or a beach house, but teaching is not the field to enter into if that is your end-goal.
96 if right out of school and no experience then yes it is a decent salary. Very decent!.
“Why should the rest of the state be making massive subsidy payments to Jersey City schools so they can offer tax abatements?”
Jersey City just completed a spanking new $52M K-5 school, per CBS this morning. Although I can’t find this morning’s segment directly on line, while googling it there seems to be another new JC school likewise opening for about the same amount this Fall.
Meanwhile, my blue ribbon district has the Superintendent out on video like a carnival huckster and massive PR by the associated orgs (PTO, etc) to get $11M of capital new funding for six projects such as fixing roofs on existing schools.
Wonder how much of that JC school my town’s taxpayers funded…..unbelievable
SX [96];
$52k – is this is your idea of a decent salary … ?
For someone right out of school with a 4-year degree? Damn straight it is. Married with 2 kids, the health insurance alone is worth $18k. Ask me how I know.
And that is a 9-5 gig. Evening time available to tutor for off-the books cash. Summers open to take additional work.
You are sick! Come work for me if you think that’s good compensation based on the cost of living in nj. 25,000 sound good to you? You really want to destroy education in this state. Let me guess, no kids or kids already graduated. Know your type well.
I worked for 18K a year out of school. Of course that was 1995, but I ate well.
OH FCUK ME!
Camden, for example, currently receives more than $30,000 per pupil in state aid. Under Christie’s proposal, the district would see its aid cut by more than 78 percent.
Well that wasn’t long, blumpy is back.
I keep pounding the table to my wife who is working in the local school district…..she feels undervalued and underutilized, but I keep extolling the value of the health benefits……when she become eligible, our household will pay about $1,000/year for something that would cost us about $25,000 on the outside……the value of her benefits will be greater than her salary……
Anon E. Moose says:
June 21, 2016 at 4:37 pm
SX [96];
$52k – is this is your idea of a decent salary … ?
For someone right out of school with a 4-year degree? Damn straight it is. Married with 2 kids, the health insurance alone is worth $18k. Ask me how I know.
And that is a 9-5 gig. Evening time available to tutor for off-the books cash. Summers open to take additional work.
I’m a fair person. What Christie is proposing is lacking empathy. Now I shall share the Libturd formula for the equitable funding of education in NJ.
Average the truancy rate from the high schools in each town with the graduation rate from the same schools. Fund the schools at whatever percentage this number is x 1.25. If it’s below 100% so be it. Make your bastard kids go to school. For non-urban schools, fund all the schools equally.
NJ RE Report Tales From The Dark Side (jj Edition):
Aside from the barrage of household items sucked into the lower intestines of various men claiming they were straight and “please don’t tell my wife,” one of the most memorable foreign body moments was a woman who came into our ER complaining of pelvic pain. Well, that means you just signed up for a pelvic exam, all of which are performed by a doctor with a nurse also present to assist (me).
The patient assumed the position, Doctor began the exam, run of the mill stuff, then says, “Oh… Nurse, could you hand me a specimen cup?” I had her one, and the doctor asks the patient, “Did you happen to insert anything into your vag!na recently? You have some funny colored discharge and small pebble sized objects I’m removing…” The patient doesn’t miss a beat and says, “Oh, those are just skittles. That’s nothing new, I always put them in there because my boyfriend likes the taste. That whole ‘taste the rainbow’ thing.” She had no idea that her self-inflicted candy-coated vag!na, which she had been doing daily for the last week, was the cause of her discomfort.
1 year out of school I made 27,500, this was 2001. At the time, a teacher’s salary seemed like a helluva step up the income ladder to me. But I wanted to play the long game and roll the dice that I could hack it in corporate America. Around year 5 I was making what my teacher friends made in Yr 1 (with their bennies included). Now at year 15, I have far surpassed them. But over that time, I was laid off/downsized twice, paid for all my own healthcare and retirement, and never once had more than 1 week off during the summer time.
At this point in life – I am finally seeing the benefit of the sacrifice for the first 15 years so you will have to excuse me when I object to someone claiming $52k/yr plus gold plated bennies and a work-free summer as a non-livable wage.
I will answer that – Yes that is a very decent starting salary. Imagine a married couple, both teachers with 5 years experience each making $62,000 by the time they marry. C
You’re numbers are way off.
*your
Ben – Which way? A teacher with 5 years experience makes about how much?
In 2010 the median salary for a NJ teacher was $55,480. So I don’t believe my #’s are “way off” at all. My example said $62k per year, which 6 years after this report was a guess but probably pretty d@mned close.
http://www.manhattan-institute.org/pdf/ib_05.pdf
I made $62k a year in year 5…but I negotiated a higher step and was one notch below PhD on a salary scale. In the town I taught at, teachers with 15 years experience off their bachelors made $62k…and this is one of the richest towns in the state.
Your problem is you just keep adding numbers to their salary since 2010. In 2009, I started out at a “base salary of 57k” and contributed $0 to my health care.
2009: Healthcare contribution of $1500 and a step freeze….-$500
2010: Increased pension contribution of $2000….-$1000
2011: No change
2012: Increased healthcare contributions and a step freeze -$1500
2013: Increased healthcare contributions $-1000
2014: Increased healthcare contributions $-1000
My base salary went from $57k to $62k….yet all of those things offset whatever raise I had. My numbers appear to be $5k larger according to the app teacher database and that’s the number you reference. You ignored all the details you don’t have access to.
The thing is, most teachers don’t have anything beyond a bachelors when they start. Most districts start out at $45k to $48k. It is district specific. For example, my current district you start out at $56k. And in the first 5 years of employment, the union screws over the younger ones by limiting their step increases to about $300 to $600 a year. Everyone assumes them to be $1000. Furthermore, those cadillac benefits are the most overrated thing there is. It ain’t worth $18k to me. In fact, in my district, they offer a stipend to decline the insurance. About $6k. Tons of people take it. In a district where that’s not an option, paying off those benefits is more of a burden to a younger teacher making 48k. Do you think they need to be paying 1/3 of $20k? They are young and healthy and would be perfectly happy purchasing a reduced plan.
Health insurance is completely overrated in general. I encourage you to offer doctor’s cash payments for treatment and see what kind of discount they give you. My father’s a doctor and I used to do the computer side of his billing for him while I was in high school. The answer is….90% discount….easily. That’s what they settle for in collection if they have to take you to court for non-payment.
“Health insurance is completely overrated in general.”
Until you have a kid with a cancerous brain tumor.
Broken (97)-
2-1, ARG. We’ll play a good game, but Messi & co can’t be denied.
No matter how well we play, the fire Klinsmann crowd will be piling on for days.
ChiFi [108];
Anyone still in contact with Jill? As I recall she was an ER doc. She bought a place on the Saddle River (I mean ON the river) circa 2010 and hosted a GTG once she was moved in.
She had some fun ER stories.
Wing (100)-
All this is a deliberate plan to bleed the middle class dry in NJ.
Chi (104)-
Money down the shitter, that.
107- Stu for Governor!
Jill bought the company that makes Skittles.
Splat [116];
I’m hoping for a US win. Then we get absolutely punked in the finals by Columbia, but we’ll be stuck with Klinsman through the world cup — after all, how do you fire a guy who took you to the finals?
Or we get embarrassed, like MEX-CHE.
For a laugh I checked out tix at MetLife for the finals. Can’t even get into the building for less than $500/seat.
Until you have a kid with a cancerous brain tumor.
That’s the fundamental problem in this country. No one can separate catastrophic coverage from their lipitor prescription.
#102 not 3b you know diddly fool! 52k for someone right out of college is an excellent salary for a teacher or most any other profession. You are a moron! What should a teachers starting salary be?? I know your type well. Just another moron.
105 it does sound like pumpkin!
Speaking of subcompact SUVs.
Looking to get rid of my BMW X3 and pick up either a Subaru Crosstrek or a Honda HR-V.
Leaning Crosstrek because I want the auto-braking system, and Honda doesn’t offer it.
115
Libtard,
At the risk of putting words in Ben’s mouth, I bet he’d say that actual health insurance is one thing… and the bastardization of insurance we utilize is another. The equivalent of having car insurance pay for tires and oil changes.
Joyce, in so many words yes. But on top of it, everyone acts like I’m making out like a bandit with my $20k a year healthcare plan. I’ve been to the doctor 3 times in the past 6 years. I much rather would have forked out a grand total of $120, which they would have gladly accepted. Instead, the non-profit Horizon was paid $120k on my behalf. Honestly, if they gave me that $120k and let me put it in a savings account, do you not think I couldn’t find a way to get whatever care I needed?
LOOK AT THE FUNNY FAT MAN MAKE JOKE
http://www.northjersey.com/news/christie-proposes-equal-funding-per-student-1.1619248
How long do you think it would take for local governments to find ways to spend this new found money?
The Subaru AWD is the standard all others are held to. I’m not sure I trust the boxer engine though.
HRV = yawn
If that was a corporate starting salary, we wouldn’t be having this conversation on the grounds that the following year you will actually get a raise. More than likely a considerable one if a professional position.
For a teacher, that starting salary is basically their salary for the next 15 years. You try saving for a down payment, raising a family, and paying off student loans on that salary in NJ. On top of that, they are paying into a pension that has become the piggy bank for the state of nj. What’s so decent about that? Sign me up, Scottie! Def going to recruit the best with this winning formula.
Capisci deficiente?
If you are young and healthy then good for you……I have been bled dry for the past ten years……..just in the last 4 months I have had to go into my pocket for about $5,000 above and beyond my premium payments………kids are expensive…..
Ben says:
June 21, 2016 at 9:49 pm
Joyce, in so many words yes. But on top of it, everyone acts like I’m making out like a bandit with my $20k a year healthcare plan. I’ve been to the doctor 3 times in the past 6 years. I much rather would have forked out a grand total of $120, which they would have gladly accepted. Instead, the non-profit Horizon was paid $120k on my behalf. Honestly, if they gave me that $120k and let me put it in a savings account, do you not think I couldn’t find a way to get whatever care I needed?
Where the fcuk was this 5 years ago? The guy is a gutless (no pun intended) backstabber…….being governor wasn’t good enough for him….
grim says:
June 21, 2016 at 9:58 pm
LOOK AT THE FUNNY FAT MAN MAKE JOKE
http://www.northjersey.com/news/christie-proposes-equal-funding-per-student-1.1619248
What percentage of the private sector is employed by large corporations? If it is small, as-in not representative, should that be used as a barometer?
According to this source, it’s about half. Almost 100% of employers is considered a small business. I think my question is valid.
Small businesses comprise what share of the U.S. economy? Small businesses make up:
99.7 percent of U.S. employer firms,
64 percent of net new private-sector
jobs,
49.2 percent of private-sector
employment,
42.9 percent of private-sector payroll,
46 percent of private-sector output,
43 percent of high-tech employment,
98 percent of firms exporting goods,
and
33 percent of exporting value
https://www.sba.gov/sites/default/files/FAQ_Sept_2012.pdf
Not 3b says:
June 21, 2016 at 11:02 pm
If that was a corporate starting salary, we wouldn’t be having this conversation on the grounds that the following year you will actually get a raise. More than likely a considerable one if a professional position.
Last question… what do you consider a considerable raise in year 2 (and I assume most years beyond that)?
Not 3b says:
June 21, 2016 at 11:02 pm
If that was a corporate starting salary, we wouldn’t be having this conversation on the grounds that the following year you will actually get a raise. More than likely a considerable one if a professional position.
#8 – Ben – Health insurance is not for the healthy. Go ahead and take the stipend if your district offers it and go without coverage. Oh wait you cannot do that Obama care will tax you some day for no insurance.
I don’t know where they can get more effiency but it won’t be single payer, just look
At how much medicare shells out annually.
FRIST
If you are young and healthy then good for you……I have been bled dry for the past ten years……..just in the last 4 months I have had to go into my pocket for about $5,000 above and beyond my premium payments………kids are expensive…..
I don’t know your situation with your kids, but did you even try to negotiate? If you are paying out of pocket, every doctor’s bill is a suggested payment. I remember going through my father’s bill’s in the 90s. 2 million dollars worth of accounts receivable over a 5 year period. If he could have bundled it up and sold it for $20k, it would have made sense.
Why is the exemplification being made between small business and the teaching profession? Being that it’s not, no need to profligate the issue by making this comparison.
Professionals, when hired, are more than likely working for a big business known as a corporation. Being that teachers are professionals with advanced degrees, the original comparison stands true.
The raises should justify and reflect a professional with advanced degrees. Meaning, upper middle class lifestyle. Paint in whatever percentage you want to meet this standard of living. Teachers are managers, and their pay should reflect it, especially when they cannot fire their workers that are unproductive. They are responsible for bringing them up to par. That’s a difficult task, and the pay should reflect it. 60,000 or less after 12 years does not reflect that. It’s an ignominious salary for a professional. Sorry that you can’t distinguish that.
“But what about the children”…(but only the poor children who live in urban districts…fcuk the ones in the suburbs)
http://www.nj.com/opinion/index.ssf/2016/06/christie_starts_political_war_by_going_after_poor.html#comments
132 you are still a moron. Starting salary of 52k is a good salary for a 22 year old right out of school period for any profession. And if you think these kids in the private sector are getting big raises and promotions every year you are even a bigger moron! And they pay for health benefits too. And many don’t get a match on 401k plan. Is that too much for you to digest?? Oh and come up with so
Something better than not 3b
Port Authority fcuks us again…….incompetent bastards……
http://www.wsj.com/articles/as-expanded-panama-canal-prepares-to-open-new-york-isnt-ready-1466587807
“The carriers, their No. 1 concern is the Bayonne Bridge,” said Gerry Wang, chief executive of Seaspan Corp., which owns one of the largest fleets of container ships in the world and leases them to large shipping lines.
The delay in the Bayonne project is “part of the reason why the ship charter market is very sluggish, this uncertainty,” he said.
“The announcement of the delay of the bridge was a surprise to us. It’s a disappointment,” he said. “
#141
Only in a soci@list mind is equal treatment unfair.
They are a finicky bunch, sometimes they want a complete nanny state from cradle to grave with preferential treatment at every turn, other times when it infringes on their ability to act with complete unaccountability they claim they are being discriminated against. Can’t keep those whiners happy.
141 although more than a few suburbs are on the road to becoming much like the urban districts.
re # 139 – We had one health issue this year, one tonsil removal surgery which I am still being billed for, latest bill was $1,200 for anesthesia drugs, bill was received only last month for surgery performed first week of January. $10,000 out of network surgery center bill for Raritan Bay Medical which is in network, but this new “wing” of the Hospital is some LLC the doctors own and it is where the surgery is now only performed and is totally “out of network”. I consider this a total scam, since we checked with our insurance first and they said Raritan Bay was in network. Somehow a patient advocate out of California sent a notice for this bill for $2k to settle that $10k surgery center bill. I consider these all balance bills from the ONT to be egregious for a total visit of 3 hours to this out of network surgery center, not including the additional $250 follow costs for each visit.
I have UnitedHeathcare Choice Plus plan which is supposed to limit this nonsense.
https://www.uhc.com/employer/health-plans/choice-plus
I am refusing to pay any of them, the “coordinator” told us out of pocket would be only $300, not that I believed them but I did not do all the leg work. I was pressured by my better half to schedule the surgery right away after the New Year and so the leg work was not done properly.
This is a game of bait and switch, the Doctors sign up for the Insurance to get the patients, but they seem to have no intention of accepting the terms of their agreements and ONLY use out of network facilities and out of network anesthesiologists all billing via LLCs etc.
I blame our legislature, other states have passed laws to limit this nonsense but not New Jersey the Soprano state.
(Not) pumpkin,
I brought up the possible distinction between large and small because you brought up “corporate”.
First, you’re right and working in a public school is not the same as working in the private sector for a small or large business. Working in the public sector should never be compared to the private; being that it’s not the same there’s no need to profligate the issue by making this comparison… and I’m sorry if you can’t distinguish that.
Second, not all degrees (let alone an advanced ones) are equal. After graduating, take your PHD in philosophy to a corporation and see how far it gets you. Make sure to remind everyone you see that you’re a ‘professional.’
Not Joyce says:
June 22, 2016 at 8:27 am
Why is the exemplification being made between small business and the teaching profession? Being that it’s not, no need to profligate the issue by making this comparison.
Professionals, when hired, are more than likely working for a big business known as a corporation. Being that teachers are professionals with advanced degrees, the original comparison stands true.
The raises should justify and reflect a professional with advanced degrees. Meaning, upper middle class lifestyle. Paint in whatever percentage you want to meet this standard of living. Teachers are managers, and their pay should reflect it, especially when they cannot fire their workers that are unproductive. They are responsible for bringing them up to par. That’s a difficult task, and the pay should reflect it. 60,000 or less after 12 years does not reflect that. It’s an ignominious salary for a professional. Sorry that you can’t distinguish that.
140. Not Joyce
I think you meant comparison, not exemplification, and conflate, not profligate.
Last time I checked, teachers chose their profession, not the other way around. Hopefully they did so with some awareness of the inherent compensation structure. If they didn’t, then this is a good signal that perhaps they lack the type of foresight and personal accountability that are essential for success in the corporate world.
If teachers have a change of heart based on the financial implications of their choice, then they retain their free will and so may freely pursue a less “ignominious” salary at any time. But for them to try to outsource the very knowable implications of their own decisions onto others is unseemly. Do teachers think private sector workers aren’t nickle-and-dimed by their own employers? Do they understand that business owners have to make these choices in order to remain competitive? Do they understand how competitive, political, and brutal climbing the corporate ladder can be? (Just ask JJ, if you can find him.)
As an aside, one of my biggest pet peeves about public workers is their near universal belief that had they chosen to work in the private sector, they’d be sitting in the C-suite and be awash in stock options.
147 – it’s criminal – any other business, the owners would be in jail for fraud.
Grim, what’s up with the blacklist today? Trying to write back to Ben about health insurance, and can’t get past the filter.
Exactly. NJ median household income (in 2014 dollars), 2010-2014 … $72,062
https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/table/INC110214/34
clotluva says:
June 22, 2016 at 9:48 am
140. Not Joyce
As an aside, one of my biggest pet peeves about public workers is their near universal belief that had they chosen to work in the private sector, they’d be sitting in the C-suite and be awash in stock options.
Not sure haven’t checked – stuck on Stu’s set of tracks trying to get to NY Penn after the Main/Bergen line was all shitted up this morning.
Owned two subarus – both had superior traction in snow than my AWD BMW X3.
The wheels/tires on the x3 are large/wide – especially the rear (they are wider in the rear) – which makes the car seriously prone to hydro planing. Even with those fancy anti-plane tires, the car could probably get sideways in an inch of water.
The comparisons between the hr-v and crosstrek have the Subaru as winner by a large margin.
Not Joyce says: “The raises should justify and reflect a professional with advanced degrees. Meaning, upper middle class lifestyle.”
This sentence is a perfect example of the victim mentality of some public employees. I have a degree so I deserve an upper-middle class lifestyle. Let’s say that is the defined as the 75th percentile of earnings. You really think the fact that you some sort of degree entitles you to a wage and lifestyle that is greater than 75% of the rest of the nation? This type of thinking would have you sliced to ribbons in the corporate world you reference.
I have two advanced degrees and 15 years of experience and an ability to bring positive P&L to my employer every year. You know what that entitles me to in the corporate world? I get to compete for my job every single day, there is no safety, no summer off, no pension waiting for me when I retire. If I am lucky, I avoid the corporate cost-cutting lay-off ax (which I mentioned happened to me twice already).
Your assertion that the public employee deserves an upper middle class life just for having a degree is a f!cking fairy tale.
I’ve always said to pay the teachers a bit more, but make their benefits match what is common in private sector.
Big shift we are seeing in the last year is a move to a shared-risk contractual model, which makes third parties absorb a big portion of performance based risk.
If we don’t make the numbers, which includes year over year cost reductions and broad improvements in performance metrics, we get penalties and/or lose the business.
I’d love to see the public sector attempt to operate in this way. Shock and awe. Not only do you have to hit a high bar, but the bar is set higher every year, and you need to do it at less cost than the year prior. If you don’t make the bar, you have to GIVE BACK your pay.
Why the hell does anyone think the private sector has anything to do with Scrooge McDuck swimming in a pool of money?
For anyone interested Yellen is in front of the House now.
Hensarling, Committee Chairman, just gave her a hard b!tchslapping. Appears part of the governing law is that payment on excess reserves (currently 50bps) can’t exceed market rates (FF, 38bps).
“Madame Chairperson, is it your view that you have the legal authority to pay a 35% premium on funds to the largest banks in the world?” And he’s a Republican LOL
And in real estate news, May sales +1.8%, highest median sales price on record. $1m+ properties heating up.
http://www.vox.com/2016/6/20/11953254/guns-terror-watch-list
Manchin: Due process is ‘killing us right now’ in gun debate
http://www.politico.com/story/2016/06/joe-manchin-gun-control-224425#ixzz4CJthDOVD
Look at who is playing the victim. Look at who is crying about their career choice. Why did you join the corporate ranks if you can’t handle it?
As for the teachers. They are professionals, they are managers as well as teachers. They are highly accountable. If we are going to belittle the profession, why require the certifications and advanced degrees?
Please do not disrespect the teaching profession by claiming their degrees are worthless or the easy road to a degree. No degree is easy. Time and money were put forth to receive those degrees. So if you want to pay teachers the equivalent of an auto zone manager; take away the degree, certification, test requirements and the pay will be justified (God bless the children they are teaching if we go this route). Don’t make teachers jump through flaming hoops to get the job, and then spit on the strenuous effort it took to get there by claiming they are overpaid babysitters. Not helping out the state of education at all. Just slamming the dedicated individuals trying their best to fix it.
I know plenty of professionals not making $52k now. Visit any college or university administration office. Most positions are 50k or under…forever. Of course, all positions require a degree though.
163 so how much should the starting salary be for a teacher right out of school? 100k? How much should there raises be every couple of years 5k 10k?
Sorry above post is to 162 not 163
Subarus can climb a hill with loss of traction on 3 wheels. Not many AWD cars/suv’s can do that…
grim says:
June 22, 2016 at 10:29 am
The comparisons between the hr-v and crosstrek have the Subaru as winner by a large margin.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nKnxM9Ymw-c
I’d love to see the public sector attempt to operate in this way. Shock and awe. Not only do you have to hit a high bar, but the bar is set higher every year, and you need to do it at less cost than the year prior. If you don’t make the bar, you have to GIVE BACK your pay.
The amount of students who get a 5 on the AP exam has fluctuated between 40 and 60% each year. That’s anywhere from 4 to 10 times the national average each year. I also had a 100% passing rate three years in a row. There’s a limit to how well your students can perform and I hit it long ago. There’s no more improvement to be had.
Notme – I wasn’t complaining in my post and after re-reading it, I still don’t get that vibe of complaint, it was a statement of fact.
The bottom line for me is that a teacher that makes $52k/year for 180 days of work is the equivalent of $75,111 per year if they worked 52 weeks vs 36. Plus the benefits package, pension and the fact that once tenured they have a job for life means that teaching offers a pretty nice quality of life. Yet given all this – there is a much higher complaint rate coming from the teacher world about their pay and how sh!tty their life is because of the corporate fat cats they envision is keeping them down. I rarely hear of a case where lawyers, doctors, university professors, chefs, you name the private sector employee that so loudly and frequently b!tch and moan about their pay and who is to blame. If you are a teacher and you aren’t paid enough then quit and go to any other job in the world that you are qualified for. I am fatigued having to hear teachers complain about their lot in life while they search for Gov. X or President Y to blame. Get off your a$$ and do something about it.
To view it another way – it is supply and demand. It is near impossible to get teaching job in a good NJ school district. Why is that? Simple economics tells me that when demand for a job is so high the pay will be lower. Yet hundreds of kids out of college would love the chance to teach in Blue Ribbon School X, yet Mr. 40 years of tenure gym teacher won’t retire. He instead b!tches about how bad his pay is while he works 30 hours/week for 36 weeks per year. The pay is so bad he will work there until they literally force him to retire or he dies watching a bunch of 16 year old girls play flag football on a sunny May afternoon.
Mazda cx-3 looks interesting. A bit small though.
Hey, all of you stop copying my lazy ways. I started the “Not” thing because of lazyness.
It takes creativity to find names here.
Some from my past, that I remember, hitting senility early – Lloyd Blankfein evil left / right eyebrow. Jamie Dimon Left /Right T3sticl3. United Chipmunks of the Bronx Zoo for Trump, etc…
interesting
The Great Pumpkin says:
June 17, 2016 at 10:03 am
“As Enron was imploding, Arnold played a footnote role, helping himself to an $8 million bonus while the company’s pension fund was vaporizing. He and other executives were later rebuked by a bankruptcy judge for looting their own company along with other executives. Public pension funds nationwide, reportedly, lost more than $1.5 billion thanks to their investments in Enron.
In 2002, Arnold started a hedge fund and over the course of the next few years made roughly a $3 billion fortune as the world’s most successful natural-gas trader. But after suffering losses in 2010, Arnold bowed out of hedge-funding to pursue “other interests.” He had created the Arnold Foundation, an organization dedicated, among other things, to reforming the pension system, hiring a Republican lobbyist and former chief of staff to Dick Armey named Denis Calabrese, as well as Dan Liljenquist, a Utah state senator and future Tea Party challenger to Orrin Hatch.
Soon enough, the Arnold Foundation released a curious study on pensions. On the one hand, it admitted that many states had been undercontributing to their pension funds for years. But instead of proposing that states correct the practice, the report concluded that “the way to create a sound, sustainable and fair retirement-savings program is to stop promising a [defined] benefit.”
Re: [172];
No, they’re not troll/socks of one another. O_o
The Tesla – Solar City deal is so repulsive, it defies description……
Privatize schools and provide some vouchers and we can find out how much teachers are worth to their customers in a semi-free market.
chifi – yes.
A guy I know shared this:
In a doubly blindingly obvious deal announced this morning, Elon Musk’s Tesla has agreed to acquire SpaceX in a $100B deal. Tremendous synergies are expected as Solar City, Tesla and SpaceX technicians make one trip to customers homes to deliver and instal solar panels made in China and subsidized by US tax code and state and local subsidies extracted from low income electricity users unable to afford solar panels for their manufactured homes and section 8 apartments, to charge the Tesla automobiles made at state of CA and US Fed subsidized factory in Fremont, CA; and the SpaceX battery powered rocket engines funded by NASA and USAF multi-billion dollar contracts. The technicians will also install the 3,000 cubic space battery pack manufactured at the state of Nevada subsidized “Gigafactory.” Musk said: Everyone is entitled to the efficiencies of their own local (200 miles or less) battery powered personal transportation and government subsidized, renewable energy powered low earth orbit space travel for trips over 200 miles in distance. The new company will be renamed Taxla Sucka. A bearish analyst on Tesla stock stated the mega merger creates an environmentally hazardous great sucking sound as capital from many generations of American industrial productivity is bled dry to fund this mega merger of vampire squid companies. This just in … In an ironic twist, Goldman Sachs, who had need lead advisor for this mega-merger transaction, has received an offer to be acquired by Tesla
174. Can’t believe it when it crossed. First thought in my mind is which professionals would sign off on the fairness opinion. If I held Tesla I’d be ripsh!t. On the other hand, hope it trades down to 180 where I may nibble, especially on the thought that the deal may bust.
147, Juice, re: hidden “out of network” charges.
Emergency life sustaining care is always supposed to be covered. Nonetheless I was contemplating the other day getting a medical bracelet along the lines of “you are not authorized to take extraordinary lifesaving efforts unless you are covered under my plan and if you do otherwise it is for your own account”. That way, when I get the $250k uncovered ER bill I can try to argue, FU, while I was flat on my back you were specifically noticed not to save me unless you were covered.
I don’t know what the exact compensation should be, but it shouldn’t be 60,000 after 12 years of teaching. That’s a spit in the face. No other career that is considered “professional” is stuck making the same salary as when they started 12 years ago.
I also think they should be making a 100,000 after 15 years of teaching. Otherwise, how are you going to attract some of the best and brightest? The best and brightest will laugh at anything under a 100,000 at the top.
Well get rid of the union scale. Then let the towns compete to get the best and see how fast those wages blow pass 100,000. You do realize that the union does the public a service by holding down costs, right? They deliberately hold down wages with their artificial wage scale, and you complain about the teachers union. The same applies to sports, the union holds down wages when a salary cap is placed on the cost of labor. Go be Christie’s lapdog, and bust down the evil union holding down teachers wages, not increasing them. People are lost.
Not homeboken says:
June 22, 2016 at 3:05 pm
Well get rid of the union scale.
I am 100% in favor of this idea.
not 3b, you do realize they are only working 180 days, many in 1st, 2nd, 3rd etc grades. How hard is it to teach 3rd grade? I have many engineers with 25 years not cracking 100k, through in a few recessions and many of them get knocked down to $70k pretty quick.
throw in a few recessions
On the school funding thing Christie is actually right, for once. $6500 in aid per student is fairly significant, if one thinks about it Hudson Catholic in jersey city is 9k per year, vouchers look very efficient compared to funding failing schools. Some how jersey city public schools can get no results but at 9k per student the catholics get pretty decent results out of the same mostly minority students. It strikes me the cost per student to educate a student in NJ is between 15-20K per student, so state aid could cover 30-40% of the cost for most districts. Your large poor urban cities have a far more diverse tax base than the average suburban district(office buildings, industrial, retail, etc) and based on the size of the districts they should be able to leverage shared administration costs across many schools and be at the low end of the spending spectrum. There is no reason the urban districts can’t get per student cost down to 15k per student, also I’d argue for vouchers and increased charter schools as public schools in the urban areas are not nearly as effective dollar for dollar as a means to reduce cost. The cities in NJ need to spur development to pick themselves up with redevelopment.
Careful what you ask for.
For example, you have loads of athletes in the minor’s that will do it cheaper, but if you want the best, get ready to pay.
Apply it to lawyers. Legions of lawyers out there, but if you want the best, get ready to pay up.
You sure you want towns competiting over the best teachers with no Union scale to cap costs? It could get ugly. People like Ben are going to be making a lot of money.
Walking bye, I would argue that being a 3rd grade teacher is a much tougher job than being on an engineering team. You know how difficult it is to teach kids how to read, write, and do arithmetic? Hope you don’t get annoyed with kids saying “I don’t get it”, without putting in the effort to “get it.” Then have the administration and their parents blaming you for why this child did so poorly on their standardized test, or why they are not performing on grade level.
Btw, a good teacher workers almost 365 days a year. Constant reflection and improvement, but you don’t know about that part, do you? Your work ends with the work day, so you assume the same for the teaching profession. Smh.
Pure truth……if you have the requisite skills to be an engineer (a huge caveat obviously) the rest of the job is a cakewalk…….the teacher sh!t is brutal with the endless performance and constant need to be prepared…….that said, there are a great number of teachers who suck and administrators that need to be cut…….I see tons of former teachers with bad backs and bad knees…….
Not homeboken says:
June 22, 2016 at 3:32 pm
Walking bye, I would argue that being a 3rd grade teacher is a much tougher job than being on an engineering team. You know how difficult it is to teach kids how to read, write, and do arithmetic? Hope you don’t get annoyed with kids saying “I don’t get it”, without putting in the effort to “get it.” Then have the administration and their parents blaming you for why this child did so poorly on their standardized test, or why they are not performing on grade level.
Pumps is definitely back. Posting under at least 2 new handles.
How much of the state education money is being redirected to maintain(nepotism, etc.) the Democratic machines in these Abbott bastions versus making it to the classroom?
I suspect a lot(most possibly) is redirected which then in turns promotes Democratic politicians and creates a feedback loop. This is apparently one of the causes of how the state got here today. If this deal were to be passed it would be a dagger in the Democratic party statewide.
Now we’re hearing Sweeney etc. suggest [I]how[/I] the money is spent is the problem and not [I]how much[/I] money is being spent, which is a predictable switch in tactics.
Speaking of Subarus, my FB feed lit up over some guy in a Subaru with NJ plate A84 GGW who threw a live kitten out of a car at an intersection somewhere in NJ (Monmouth Cty probably).
As someone who went from science/engineering to the teaching profession…many of the people you hold in high esteem as workers could not hack it in the teaching profession.
You say you feel sorry for them getting bumped down to 70k. Most of them would be fired by year 2 if they tried to become a teacher. I had to fight this stigma for 3 years because I entered the profession as an outsider. If you think the job’s a cakewalk, I dare you to try it for fun as a retirement job one year.
Capt you can’t blame the Subaru driver
https://youtu.be/V-Hhi7gPiW0
Odds on Brexit anyone? I would say no. About 10 % of their population live abroad, Cheap flights, open borders and the need to find work is more important.
“The best and brightest” Can’t be if that’s your chosen profession.
184 – Nothomeboken (aka Pumpkin) – I say again, I am 100% in favor of removing unions and letting free markets decide teacher pay. I can’t believe you suggested it.
If it turns out the best teachers get paid a boat load of money, so be it, let’s give the free market a chance. I don’t mind 1 iota if I pay the most to get the best. Why would I?
If you think removing the union would result in far higher pay with lower quality then you don’t understand how markets work.
191 juice: cousins in England say leave has slight edge as of this morning. They are all professionals and all voting leave. Also say the media is portraying any one who is voting leave is a soccer hooligan basically. They claim lots of polite people plan to vote leave.
189 Ben I ask in all seriousness. What do you think is a good salary for a teacher right out of school?
re # 194 – Well the The UK would still have to apply EU rules to retain access to the EU single market, they aren’t going to be able to negotiate directly with France for trade rights etc, and the Expats well with a BREXIT there is no guarantee that expats could work and stay in the EU. That would be worrisome for allot of families, like I said before allot of them work outside the EU.
More concern about what happens to all the continentals working in uk then the other way around. If they stay it will be cllose. And no way uk ever voted for political integration. I think ultimately the e u is a failure and breaks up.
one of the greatest pages of the entire internet
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=social%20justice
I’m not bashing on teachers, or insinuating that non-teachers could necessarily make a successful transition.
I am bashing individuals who:
(1) undertook a profession without an understanding of their industry’s dynamic (this could apply just as equally to doctors, lawyers, IT, banking professionals, etc.) and
(2) have come to grips with the dynamic, yet don’t do anything to change their circumstances (and instead point fingers at others).
Look at clot. He had an ambivalence to the RE industry after he saw things deteriorating (both in terms of credibility and opportunity), and voted with his feet (and brain).
But teaching, in the US, has had the same exact dynamics for the past 100 years. If you didn’t know what you were getting into (tenure-based pay scales, unions, arbitrary standards, politically motivated boards and administrators, blame-shifting parents, underachieving students, etc.), then you were willfully ignorant. To me, this is no different than if you chose to go to law school at some 3rd tier diploma mill and then start whining when you don’t land a clerkship or an associate position at a white shoe firm after graduating. Well, duh.
You really ARE clotluva!
clotluva says:
June 22, 2016 at 5:09 pm
Look at clot. He had an ambivalence to the RE industry after he saw things deteriorating (both in terms of credibility and opportunity), and voted with his feet (and brain).
I always though that this performance would be clot’s idea of attending “Tanglewood” in the summer……
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ao-Sahfy7Hg&feature=youtu.be&t=3m18s
That’s exactly why the profession is filled with a lot of hacks. If you do the job right, it’s one of the most difficult jobs out there. Based on the lousy compensation, how many of the best and brightest are going to throw away their earning potential to get caught up in that mess? So the schools are left with whatever they can get as opposed to the best. Some towns are lucky and get a Ben to join their ranks. But not enough bens to go around due to the pathetic compensation.
200 – Except i’ve never agreed with his, BC Bob’s, or make money’s infatuation with precious metals. May as well be like the Steve Martin bit where he decides to invest in cardboard (and hold the physical!!!)
Some footage of clot’s visit with his son to Pingry several years ago…….
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kuoFiIFkdAA
Someone like youself should be a teacher, but that’s never going to happen based on the gist of your post. You see the writing on the wall, and have the foresight to avoid the mess. Unfortunately, the children need bright minds like yourself, but that’s not going to happen until major reforms hit the profession. Only suckers go to college for jobs in nj that top out at 90,000-100,000 after a long period of getting paid nothing.
205 lots of corporate jobs top out at 90 to 100k. You truly have no clue.
Grim – Can you confirm for me that all of the “NotXXX” folks from above 1. are the same person (isn’t multiple handle posting not allowed and 2. the same Not guy is also Great Pumpkin?
207 it’s got to be pumps! He could not last a full week away!! Too much of a coincidence . He is supposedly gone then all these not posts. Or maybe he has pumkinettes that post for him!!
[201] chifi
No guns? Can’t be clot then
Are we talking hacks or best and brightest? If you are in a professional corporate position and top out at 90,000 to 100,000 in nyc job market, you aren’t trying hard enough. More than likely you are a hack taking the easy road as opposed to the difficult one.
Enough with the pumps talk. I’m starting to get annoyed to the point I won’t respond.
same thing with those who freely chose to settle in nj and bithc non-stop as to how expensive is the cost of living, etc, etc. willful ignorance
clotluva says:
June 22, 2016 at 5:09 pm
I’m not bashing on teachers, or insinuating that non-teachers could necessarily make a successful transition.
I am bashing individuals who:
(1) undertook a profession without an understanding of their industry’s dynamic (this could apply just as equally to doctors, lawyers, IT, banking professionals, etc.) and
(2) have come to grips with the dynamic, yet don’t do anything to change their circumstances (and instead point fingers at others).
……you were willfully ignorant.
How many underperforming teachers are laid off every year?
P
listen to this if you are a right winger who can’t afford NJ
clotluva says:
June 22, 2016 at 5:09 pm
(2) have come to grips with the dynamic, yet don’t do anything to change their circumstances (and instead point fingers at others).
I’m not bashing on teachers, or insinuating that non-teachers could necessarily make a successful transition.
I am bashing individuals who:
(1) undertook a profession without an understanding of their industry’s dynamic (this could apply just as equally to doctors, lawyers, IT, banking professionals, etc.) and
(2) have come to grips with the dynamic, yet don’t do anything to change their circumstances (and instead point fingers at others).
I think you really overstate the amount of gripe teachers are involved in. We are well aware that our raises are going no where, especially in an environment of 2% cap. And…for the most part, we wish you and everyone else would leave us alone and do our jobs.
I’d wager 80% of us hate the NJEA more than you do…yet we are consistently vilified for their actions and statements.
Ben I ask in all seriousness. What do you think is a good salary for a teacher right out of school?
I think it should be subject specific. Math and science teachers should be making $65k out of the gate minimum. Others, I think $50k would be a good start. You might think that’s high, but I would have high hopes that those salaries attract real good talent to the classroom. You know why Physics is littered with awful teachers? You get paid half of what you would in industry.
People that can’t stand the quality of teachers have to realize, you get what you pay for. I’m always amazed that people so in tune with the market and its mechanics think that there would be good education while suppressing salaries. It’s just not going to happen.
Pumpkin,
No we’re talking median or average as we should be. Why would we compare best to worst or worst best or anything in between? Furthermore, why are we still comparing public to private?
Not 3b says:
June 22, 2016 at 6:37 pm
Are we talking hacks or best and brightest? If you are in a professional corporate position and top out at 90,000 to 100,000 in nyc job market, you aren’t trying hard enough. More than likely you are a hack taking the easy road as opposed to the difficult one.
Enough with the pumps talk. I’m starting to get annoyed to the point I won’t respond.
210 gotcha! It’s pumps!!
How many underperforming teachers are laid off every year?
Quite a bit. Admin are happy to fire incompetent teachers. They are so easy to spot and it makes it look like they are doing their job. Usually, the ones that survive to get tenure, they sneak through once a supervisor gets a promotion and quits doing his/her job. And the new supervisor that would come in, would leave them alone because they’ve been here a few years. They mostly just look to fire 1st/2nd year teachers.
Just to give you an idea, at my current school, I’m like the 6th physics teacher in 4 years. I know another district that went through 9 physics teachers in 3 years.
Re# -Teachers and tenure, back when I was taking Calclus some time in the last century our teacher was fine if you had him in the AM, but by PM he was on the sauce and became belligerent. Mid-50s close to retirement nobody messed with him.
Another anecdotal story a family member who is a principal told me recently of one who had been drinking hand sanitizer.
This is no longer tolerated in the private sector, things have changed much more than in the public sector especially Union jobs, heck even my cousin in the carpenters Union in NYC told me fight club is over no more liquid lunch then fight, too many eyes and cameras.
Not to say many teachers take the last few hours of their day to booze it but I have heard a few stories recently.
If I had to do it all over again, I would have become a School Business Administrator. Alas,…
Ben, I’d argue that the pay isn’t an issue. I don’t think teachers in this state are overpaid or underpaid for that matter I think the salaries are reasonable. A teacher should make a living wage and in NJ for an experienced professional that is somewhere around 100K +/-. Now I’d argue like all government run operations the benefits package should be more like the private sector. Now the other thing which you clearly can speak to the best teachers aren’t working for the pay, they truly love what they do and find a lot of satisfaction in teaching the young. Honestly private schools pay poorly and still manage to attract some decent teachers. If I have distain for anybody it is the legions of school administrators, not only do these clowns make big salaries, but they generally are a bunch of clowns who do not contribute anything positive to the system.
jcer that’s true. Ironically, as Christie and his DOE had upped the “observation” requirement for tenured teachers, that has only led to districts hiring an army of administrators to perform them all and get through all the paperwork.
Everybody is an expert on education. Everybody.
Private schools like the one my kid attends ($40k a year)
are selective. Public schools are not. Classes do not compare.
Get it? You thick-headed imbeciles. Yeah you.
This blog is an echo chamber…a circle jerk…most of you sound like mouth breathers.
223
Are you an expert on education?
224
Been drinking again? Your mood swings are something else.
joyce…i actually forgot more about education than you’ve probably ever learned.
Not a drinker Joyce, i just hate people….
Essex,
Selective in the sense that they are looking for people with 40k a year to spend. Schools (take away any violence or ESL overwhelming it) private or public, are generally what the child and parents make of it. My BIL went to St. Albans in DC and has not worked steadily for 15 years besides some flash pan startups. Better to know your child before spending that kind of dough.