March 2019? Yeah, right.

From the Record:

American Dream Meadowlands finalizes $2.8B in construction financing; work resumes

A complex $2.8 billion closing on construction financing for American Dream Meadowlands was completed on Thursday, locking in the funds developers say they need to finish the long-delayed project.

The financing includes a combination of private funds and a $1.1 billion bond sale.

“We’re finally at the point where we don’t have to say ‘when’ – we can say, ‘It is happening’ – and that’s why we’re celebrating,” said New Jersey Sports and Exposition Authority President Wayne Hasenbalg.

Also celebrating Thursday was East Rutherford Mayor James Cassella, whose borough received a check from project developer Triple Five for $21.5 million upon the final closing Thursday morning.

That payment was part of a financial agreement that includes an annual payment in lieu of taxes deal for the project, which sits on state-owned land at the Meadowlands Sports Complex. It is scheduled to open in March 2019.

The bulk of the funds will go to paying off the annual debt service on a new police and court building complex that the borough built in 2010.

Cassella, who already was mayor when the project was first approved by the state in 2003, said it was a relief to see the deal close “after 14 years, three developers, nearly a dozen agreement drafts, and innumerable hours of negotiations.”

This entry was posted in New Development, New Jersey Real Estate. Bookmark the permalink.

90 Responses to March 2019? Yeah, right.

  1. Yo! says:

    Not impossible to deliver the retail component of the project by 2019. The infrastructure and building are complete so what needs to be done is the buildout of the stores.

    I was surprised investors bought the $1 billion in bonds last week. But now Triple Five has the $$$. I read the prospectus and the assumptions are aggressive ($28 million annual profit from parking?!) so I’m not saying that it will be a financial success as Jersey Gardens has been, but I’m confident the project will open.

  2. D-FENS says:

    I’m surprised their hasn’t been a “natural disaster” or a “fire” that destroyed the complex yet.

  3. 3b says:

    Institutional investors bought the deal. Only available to accredited investors. I would not touch them.

  4. grim says:

    And with a 6 handle too. That’s all you get for this risk? Casino in AC sounds like a better investment.

  5. grim says:

    What if the point was that it was never intended to be finished, just a vehicle to bilk investors out of money? This might be the longest running gag in commercial.

    I mean, look at the site, they never finish anything they start, but they keep expanding. They keep on adding nonsensical new entertainment features. Cranes go up, come down, go up, come down. Rearranging deck chairs. It looks like more of an attempt to look busy.

    When are they going to start tearing down parts of the project? Is that ski slope even still standing?

  6. LurksMcGee says:

    You might be on to something Grim.

  7. JJ fanboy says:

    Non recourse also.

  8. No One says:

    But with such close proximity to Wayne, how can it fail?

  9. LurksMcGee says:

    As much as you guys don’t like Pumps, you sure say Candyman in the mirror quite a bit.

  10. JJ fanboy says:

    Did duckie ever sell his 840k house and move on up to alpine?

  11. JJ fanboy says:

    Read my lips. Are those bag holders still enjoying eating ramen off their granite countertops every night?

    Boooooyaaaaaa

  12. Fast Eddie says:

    But with such close proximity to Wayne, how can it fail?

    LOL!

  13. Fast Eddie says:

    Friskies!! Boooooyyaaa!!!!

  14. JJ fanboy says:

    Go water your friskies garden you greedy grubbers.

    Boooooyaaaaaa

  15. 3b says:

    Grim and they had to get a conduit out of state issuer to issue the bonds. N J agencies would not touch it.

  16. grim says:

    But with such close proximity to Wayne, how can it fail?

    Post of the day

  17. Fast Eddie says:

    Xanadu is a money laundering operation. You guys just realized it now? Wanna buy a bridge?

  18. grim says:

    How much of the bond offering is going to pay the management team salaries?

  19. leftwing says:

    More a function of the yield curve and product than an endorsement of the project.

    If my arse had a six handle tattooed on it I could raise nine figures before lifting it off the can.

  20. JJ fanboy says:

    Anyone else see the NYPost story that suburban and rural outlet malls are not looking strong and there is a new trend to build outlet malls in or on the edge of cities?

  21. chicagofinance says:

    Targeting the Outlet Mall customer is always going to breed adverse selection. In an environment of full price transparency due to the Internet, the outlet customer is always going to give primacy to price over quality and/or value. Servicing that customer will always be a race to the bottom………..it is hard when Craigslist can be considered a substitute/competitor……

  22. nwnj3 says:

    NJ state threatening a shutdown? No one cared last time around, it looks the same way this time.

  23. grim says:

    Remember talking with the David’s Bridal guys out in PA a few years back.

    Who are your biggest competitors?

    Ebay and Craigslist.

  24. Wessex says:

    Amazon is taking over the world, and it has one secret weapon making its conquest possible.

    The online retailer blows its competition out of the water when it comes to customer loyalty. In a recent survey from RBC Capital Markets, 93% of the 2,200 Americans surveyed said they use Amazon more than any other online retailer over the past year. That’s quite the market penetration.

  25. leftwing says:

    I swear psilocybin is a productive mechanism. Never had adderal or such but I imagine the two to be similar.

  26. leftwing says:

    At low doses :)

  27. The Great Pumpkin says:

    No one, still think capitalism and the free market is perfect? I stand by my position that the game always ends the same way. Unless some sort of authority (govt?) steps in and saves the system, it consolidates and crashes from lack of economic activity as almost all the capital is in the hands of the few.

    ““Getting big fast is more important than it used to be,” says Prof. Ritter. So the venture-capital funds backing many startups protect their investments by merging with or selling to other companies rather than taking them public.

    In the 1990s, IPOs regularly accounted for more than half of all “exits,” or sales, by venture-capital firms; from 2001 onward, they haven’t accounted for more than 20% in a single year, calculates Prof. Ritter.

    The losers here are small investors who can’t invest in VC firms, says Brian Buenneke, a partner at Pantheon Ventures in San Francisco, which manages about $36 billion in venture-capital and private-equity funds. “Individual investors have access to fewer companies and slower growth. They’re really getting shut out.”

    The earliest and biggest gains are increasingly being captured by a wealthy, closed and connected investing clique. If that continues, it could even jeopardize popular support for free-market policies.”

    Small Companies Are Gone, but Should They be Forgotten? – The Wall Street Journal
    https://apple.news/A3GextyYmSjyyJHGS25o9GQ

  28. The Great Pumpkin says:

    Left Miami this morning and now in Key west. Stayed at the W in Miami and now in Casa Marina in Key West. If you haven’t been to Miami in a while, it’s a free for all on condos. Entire coastline from Boca to South Beach is being overtaken by giant condos. Interior of Florida is still a sh!t hole, and the coast line filthy rich, prob more so now than even 5 years ago.

  29. The Great Pumpkin says:

    When I was in college, kids would take addreral on a regular basis to boost their productivity. Never tried it, so can’t personally confirm, but that’s what they would swear by.

    leftwing says:
    June 30, 2017 at 3:55 pm
    I swear psilocybin is a productive mechanism. Never had adderal or such but I imagine the two to be similar.

  30. The Great Pumpkin says:

    That’s what pisses me off about cheapos. Get enough of them together and they destroy good products, forcing the business to focus on price instead of value. So when I hear cheap old timers complaining about the sh!t products today, I tell them thank you for being so got damn cheap and always going with the cheapest product. You got what you asked for.

    chicagofinance says:
    June 30, 2017 at 12:52 pm
    Targeting the Outlet Mall customer is always going to breed adverse selection. In an environment of full price transparency due to the Internet, the outlet customer is always going to give primacy to price over quality and/or value. Servicing that customer will always be a race to the bottom………..it is hard when Craigslist can be considered a substitute/competitor……

  31. chicagofinance says:

    I’m not joking…..why do you think he died of pancreatic cancer? LSD doesn’t just fry your brain…….

    D-FENS says:
    June 30, 2017 at 1:26 pm
    Steve Jobs did LSD?

    http://reason.com/reasontv/2017/06/26/why-i-microdose-lsd-silicon-valley

  32. Comrade Nom Deplume, surfacing briefly for air says:

    What strikes me about this map aren’t the numbers. It’s the fact that this isn’t exclusively a Blue State problem. Which increases the likelihood of some form of federal bailout.

    http://www.msn.com/en-us/money/retirement/america%e2%80%99s-pension-bomb-illinois-is-just-the-start/ar-BBDvFH7?li=BBnbfcL&ocid=UE07DHP

  33. Blue Ribbon Teacher says:

    Steve Jobs did LSD?

    http://reason.com/reasontv/2017/06/26/why-i-microdose-lsd-silicon-valley

    I don’t know about Steve Jobs but the loon they profiled in that article claims to be able to tailor people’s diets to their genetic makeup.

  34. grim says:

    …clearly requiring LSD to do that job.

  35. grim says:

    Foreign aid will be cut to fund the pension shortfalls. You heard it here first.

  36. JJ fanboy says:

    Foreign aid will be cut to give congressmen a 5k a month housing allowance.

  37. The Great Pumpkin says:

    “We Americans have a new enemy, and it is ourselves. Half of Democrats and Republicans now see members of the opposing party as not just ill-informed but actually frightening, according to the Pew Research Center. In experiments with thousands of Americans, researchers have found that partisan animosity can now exceed racial hostility: When awarding hypothetical scholarships and cash, we are more likely to discriminate based on politics than race. As of 2010, a third of Democrats and half of Republicans said that they would be upset if their children married someone from the other party—up from about 5% from each group in 1960.
    Why do we hate each other so? One reason is that Americans are more politically segregated than in the past. We are less likely to have neighbors who belong to another party than we were 20 years ago. And one thing we know about human behavior is that it is easier to hate people you don’t know.”

    America, Meet America: Getting Past Our Toxic Partisanship – The Wall Street Journal
    https://apple.news/AFS2skv0yQQyBznFGmR01lQ

  38. The Great Pumpkin says:

    Time for the country to come together. Enough with falling for the divide and conquer tactic by the powers that be. They are playing us against each other to distract us. It’s becoming more clear to me everyday. The more income inequality has increased, the more divisive our politics has become…hmm, wonder why?

    Throw out issues that have no right or wrong answer, just opinion based, and watch the people fight each other. Throw out issues like abortion or gun laws and watch the people forget about the real and only issue….economics. What kind of standard of living are you providing people living in the richest nation in human history.

  39. The Great Pumpkin says:

    The standard of living should not be going down based on the amount of money in circulation, and the amount of resources at hand. Absolutely criminal.

  40. The Great Pumpkin says:

    No more fighting each other. Instead demand better jobs and better quality of life. Our infrastructure shouldn’t be so shitty. Wtf

  41. The Great Pumpkin says:

    I see Fatman strikes again. What a cancer to this state.

    Enjoy the holiday weekend everyone. Hope I opened some minds today to whoever read my posts. Hope the message spreads through the population. Yes, people can have different opinions, that’s normal, but stop with the divisiveness.

    Going to enjoy this beautiful day with my family now.

  42. chicagofinance says:

    Was at Costco Marlboro last night……..these were delivered at 7PM last night…… $99
    https://brookeesblog.wordpress.com/2011/06/30/costco-4th-of-july-in-hawaii-more-bang-for-your-buck/

  43. Clotpoll says:

    i’d like to see what a gang of crusty, old hard money lenders could do with xanadu.

    and the first thing they’d do is laugh off any deal under 1,000 bps.

  44. Clotpoll says:

    ribbony 8:41-

    i work with lots of people who microdose. it’s not that different than eating @dderall every day.

  45. Blue Ribbon Teacher says:

    I took Ritalin daily from age 14 to age 31 for my ADD. I could accomplish the work of 10 people in a day. I literally am able to read an 800 page textbook and absorb it on that crap. I stopped taking it because I don’t need it to work through my daily tasks anymore. If I want to get that way again, 2 cups of coffee is easily an suitable substitute.

    I have no doubt that taking something like LSD enhances creativity. I’ve watched countless numbers of musicians make the greatest music while taking god knows what. Meanwhile, whenever they go clean, their music somehow falls off a cliff. As far as the idiot they profiled, he definitely needs to take LSD to come up with a more creative line a bullsh1t for all his customers. I guarantee you he just keeps tweaking their diet and they feel great due to the placebo effect.

  46. Fabius Maximus says:

    Just back from a week in Montauk, and the locals have a new bumper sticker.
    “Make Montauk Not great again!”

    Had a great week, but a few days it was too rough to swim in the ocean.

    Latest sign of the apocalypse, two Marianne Faithful wannabes riding Resto modded Triumphs or Enfields into Ditch Plains carpark.

  47. The Original NJ ExPat says:

    Student Charlie cards are the bomb! We don’t have to take our girls anywhere this Summer. They just walk 5 houses down the block, grab the bus and get themselves to their own (free) Summer programs (Tennis, Theatre, etcc). Sweet.

    Sure, it might be a good investment to buy a house in Wayne, pay those taxes, just so you can be 10 miles away from the newest mall, but still?

    Hahahahahahhahahaha

  48. grim says:

    Latest sign of the apocalypse, two Marianne Faithful wannabes riding Resto modded Triumphs or Enfields into Ditch Plains carpark.

    Apocalypse? This gives me some hope for the world.

  49. grim says:

    They just walk 5 houses down the block, grab the bus and get themselves to their own (free) Summer programs (Tennis, Theatre, etcc). Sweet.

    Sad for kids these days, eh? What ever happened to making bike ramps with milk crates and “be home by the time the streetlights come on.”

    Now we send our kids to theatre camp in summer? Tennis camp? I’m pretty sure you’ve made fun of Tennis camp on here before. God help us.

  50. leftwing says:

    So the state shuts down for the 4th weekend, brilliant. Includes island beach state park.

    The governors office has a summer house in IBSP. Christie and his family are there now.

    Can’t make this stuff up.

  51. leftwing says:

    Clot, cmon, there’s always a Nordic bank stuffee to take that paper in the single digits.

    Oops, blew up your central bank, pensions, and exchange rate? Our bad, sorry!

  52. grim says:

    Where was Prieto yesterday?

  53. grim says:

    Senate passed the bills with bipartisan support, why won’t the Assembly?

  54. grim says:

    Governor compromised with Democrats on school funding and pension and is poised to sign the budget – why doesn’t Prieto call a vote?

  55. grim says:

    Democrat Vince Prieto shut down the state, not Christie. It is the role of the legislature to deliver the budget to the governors desk to be signed by July 1st, the start of the fiscal year. Without the budget sppropriations, the state is not permitted to spend, necessitating the shut down. It is nonsensical to blame Christie for this – he doesn’t make the budget. He is not permitted to spend without the budget. The state parks are not considered essential services.

    The legislature can pass a bill permitting the parks to be open, just like the law was changed to permit casinos to continue operating in lieu of a state shutdown (this was not the case previously). But, since the Prieto refuses to call a vote on the budget, doubt he’ll call a vote on a new bill to keep the parks open.

    Is the Assembly in session today? Where is Prieto?

  56. leftwing says:

    Not taking sides in the shut down. Actually been out of state all week want aware of it until reading a times article last night.

    Mentioned Christie because part of the times article had an exchange between NJSP and a bmw at their IBSP roadblock where the driver identifies herself as christies daughter and the cop lets her thru.

    Regardless of fault, probably not good optics to go on holiday on the states tab to the place that was just shut down to everyone else because the state has no money, lol.

  57. The Great Pumpkin says:

    Stated simply. This is a republican governor who cries that he won’t raise taxes, but is advocating for a SPECIAL TAX ON HORIZON CUSTOMERS TO HOOK UP HIS BUDDIES. Ahh, the irony. This is why we need to blowup the two party system and add a third option that is moderate and not extreme. Right now, two party system has turned to extremes on both sides of the aisle and why govt is the mess it is today.

    Also, Christie’s response to a reporter yesterday stating “if you don’t like it become governor and you can do the same” highlights that politicians believe they are above the citizens. Guy should be impeached.

  58. The Great Pumpkin says:

    Ahh, another Christie like hypocrite. Heard you complain about socia!ism on here many times before, but here you are applauding socia!ist programs. See, socia!ism isn’t all that bad, now is it?

    We are a species that became the most powerful on this planet by working together and sharing. It’s not such a bad thing unless you take socia!ism to the extreme. In moderate form, it’s a good thing for society.

    The Original NJ ExPat says:
    July 1, 2017 at 11:31 pm
    Student Charlie cards are the bomb! We don’t have to take our girls anywhere this Summer. They just walk 5 houses down the block, grab the bus and get themselves to their own (free) Summer programs (Tennis, Theatre, etcc). Sweet.

    Sure, it might be a good investment to buy a house in Wayne, pay those taxes, just so you can be 10 miles away from the newest mall, but still?

    Hahahahahahhahahaha

  59. The Great Pumpkin says:

    Highly recommend Lattitudes in key west. Fabulous views paired with excellent food.

  60. grim says:

    What special tax?

    The Horizon bill is mainly about providing oversight to the states largest nonprofit who would otherwise be paying hundreds of millions in taxes, instead forcing them to live up to their mandate of being a charitable organization. Horizon execs routinely receive double digit million bonuses.

    The $300 million is saying to them, if you can’t live up to being a nonprofit charity, we will do it for you.

  61. Grab them by the puzzy says:

    @AoDespair
    These aszholes are now channeling Pol Pot.

    @JenAshleyWright
    The head of the NRA said: “academic elites, political elites, and media elites. These are America’s greatest domestic threats”

  62. The Great Pumpkin says:

    Then return the money to the customer, it’s as simple as that. Taking that money and giving it to select groups is outright theft.

    grim says:
    July 2, 2017 at 10:02 am
    What special tax?

    The Horizon bill is mainly about providing oversight to the states largest nonprofit who would otherwise be paying hundreds of millions in taxes, instead forcing them to live up to their mandate of being a charitable organization. Horizon execs routinely receive double digit million bonuses.

    The $300 million is saying to them, if you can’t live up to being a nonprofit charity, we will do it for you.

  63. The Great Pumpkin says:

    And I hate the insurance industry. Not advocating for them, they def need to stop paying executives millions and then claiming non-profit. Biggest scam in the game, claiming non-profit and paying employees millions. It’s obvious you will fall under non-profit and dump the money in insurance executives hands.

  64. grim says:

    Horizon BCBS was created by an act of the NJ legislature, and that legislation, which permits them to be non-profit, requires them to be a charitable and benevolent organization.

    You realize that Horizon is the only non-profit insurer in the state of NJ, correct? They don’t pay taxes, like all the other insurers. This gives them a quasi-monopolistic status, which is why they control 55% of the insurance market in NJ.

  65. The Great Pumpkin says:

    *It’s obvious you will fall under non-profit when you dump the money (excess profit) in insurance executives hands.

  66. The Great Pumpkin says:

    Grim, all I’m saying is to stop robbing the customer in the form of higher payments going to god knows where. The customer pays high enough rates, they should not be robbed and forced to pay for the charity of others.

  67. grim says:

    NJ Republicans had a budget compromise with NJ Democrats – Republicans would back the school budget changes proposed by the Democrats, to the tune of $350 million in new spending. In exchange, $300 million from the Horizon trust fund would be used to support health initiatives in NJ. In addition, the pension shortfall would be made up by giving the lottery to the pension, which alone is an EPIC concession, basically deeding a huge state asset and ongoing revenues to the pension. Keep in mind, giving the lottery to the pension means lots of good NJ programs go unfunded, included those revenues that go to helping the disabled.

    Prieto, reneged on the deal, and won’t pass the Horizon bill. He also won’t call a vote on the budget, because Christie will just use line item veto to strip the Democratic school budget changes.

    So he tried to call a stalemate, hoping the Governor would back down, by holding the state hostage.

  68. The Great Pumpkin says:

    If charity is what we are advocating for; make one state insurer where everyone participates in the cost of charity, not a select group of citizens.

  69. grim says:

    Prieto, by the way, supported similar legislation in the past.

  70. grim says:

    Answer is easy.

    Audit Horizon.

    You’ll find they aren’t a non-profit.

    And they’ll pay taxes.

    Then, they can do whatever they want with their excess revenues, and the state can do whatever it wants with the tax dollars.

    Problem solved.

  71. The Great Pumpkin says:

    Grim, exactly, robbing peter to pay Paul. So the customer’s of horizon will have their premiums jacked up to pay for the cost of the 350 million in new education spending. Have some balls and raise taxes on everyone, not a few.

    grim says:
    July 2, 2017 at 2:08 pm
    NJ Republicans had a budget compromise with NJ Democrats – Republicans would back the school budget changes proposed by the Democrats, to the tune of $350 million in new spending. In exchange, $300 million from the Horizon trust fund would be used to support health initiatives in NJ. In addition, the pension shortfall would be made up by giving the lottery to the pension, which alone is an EPIC concession, basically deeding a huge state asset and ongoing revenues to the pension. Keep in mind, giving the lottery to the pension means lots of good NJ programs go unfunded, included those revenues that go to helping the disabled.

    Prieto, reneged on the deal, and won’t pass the Horizon bill.

    He won’t call a vote on the budget, because Christie will just use line item veto to strip the Democratic school budget changes.

  72. grim says:

    Reserve fund has nothing to do with premiums. If this is the case, plow the reserve fund towards reducing premiums. They could have done this for decades, but they have not.

    Instead, they use the reserve fund to make financial investments and operate like a hedge fund.

    Seems we struck a cord, so let me guess, they do business with your company.

  73. The Great Pumpkin says:

    That’s exactly what should be done. The games need to stop in this state.

  74. grim says:

    If Horizon is so pious, open up the financial statements, what do they have to hide?

  75. The Great Pumpkin says:

    So sick of the elite playing games with everyone. That’s exactly what this is. Christie is no good guy, he’s going to take that money and reward all his friends. I think the money already designated to go to Kushners brother who owns an insurance company trying to get back in this state. I read the money is going to that and I think Amerihealth.

    Elite just rob the common folk everyday lobbying the govt to hurt the very people they represent.

  76. The Great Pumpkin says:

    You think Christie gives a damn about heroine addicts, uninsured, or charity. You have to dig deeper. What is Christie getting out of this for himself.

  77. grim says:

    Has bipartisan support in the senate. The same idea was floated years ago by democrats.

    Christie said he’d sign a budget without the Horizon bill, as long as democrats didn’t spend money they didn’t have available to spend. So pass a budget without the $350 million in new school spending, and we’re done.

  78. Blue Ribbon Teacher says:

    Horizon is dirty too and I’ve stated this plenty of times on the forum the past 2 years. They keep jacking up their rates thousands of dollars a year bleeding districts and taxpayers while they run this mega-surplus.

  79. The Original NJ ExPat says:

    I have teenage girls spraying each other with a hose in my backyard right now. Is that the real reason people buy houses in the suburbs?

  80. The Original NJ ExPat says:

    Earlier this year I posited it had something to do with snow throwers, lawn mowers and alcohol. The last bastion of internal combustion fun while drinking that is still unregulated.

  81. The Original NJ ExPat says:

    I love surprising an audience. I rode out to the store on one of my bicycles today, a very serious Gary Fisher MTB. We live in a weird area where you can get to stores a “flat way” or a “short way” especially if you are not in a car. I told my wife I was thinking about bombing the hill which is part of the “short way”. If you are walking, you would take a less steep way on the last section of the “short way”, but I wanted to try the steep descent. As I approached the dead end where the steep and the very steep ways start from there was a guy in the middle of the street talking to a neighbor. I decided I had to leave them thinking so I went right for the “very steep” way, where no one goes. Anybody who has done any serious mountain biking (I did the Porcupine Rim) know s a simple maxim, “The slower you go, the faster things happen”. I even discussed this with my wife before I left and she urged my not to try it yet. Civilians can understand it this way: an obstacle that can stop you or flip you at low speeds can be flown over at high speeds. Anyway, because the situation was perfect I just went right down the mini-cliff. Going down I realized that it was steeper at the bottom than the top and the maxim applied. Brakes off I flattened out and flew over the curb into the pavement of the condo complex that is at the bottom. Slower speeds would have sent me over the handlebars.

    When I got back home I told my wife about the experience and she asked me if I would do it again. My answer was predictable, if you know me. “It scared me, so I’ll definitely be doing it again.”

    I still wonder if that old guy looked over the cliff to see what happened to the other old guy who rode right by him and down the bank.

  82. Bagholder says:

    Shuts down the beaches, goes to the closed beach, gets photographed on the beach, lies about it.

    Seems silly. Just own it.

  83. The Original NJ ExPat says:

    Something I say to my wife almost every other day for the last few weeks:

    “How and why did we spend the best years of our life without Central A/C?”

  84. The Original NJ ExPat says:

    I love Island Beach State Park. I used to bring the hottest, low rent chicks there for a cheap date. Stick a fishing pole in the sand and you could f.uck them there for free too.

  85. Njescapee says:

    Pumpkin, enjoy your stay in Key West. We have our grandson staying with us down here for the 4th. Fireworks are right next to the Casa Marina on the pier. It’s always a big draw. Can’t compare with big city stuff though. We enjoy Latitudes for birthdays and special occasions.

  86. californicator says:

    Still laugh about paying to visit beaches. F’ NJ

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