Why Trump’s tax plan will make housing even more unaffordable

There appears to be some thought that home prices on the coasts are elevated or subsidized through the use of the Mortgage Interest deduction (MID) and State and Local Tax (SaLT) deductions. These two deductions, either alone or together, artificially increase the price of homes making them less affordable. Without the “subsidies”, prices would fall, increasing affordability, which is better for everyone (except the people that currently own the homes).

I would argue that this would not be the case, that eliminating SALT and MID would cause the opposite. Not because removing the deductions wouldn’t cause prices to fall, they would. But because removing SALT and MID right now, would cause a seize up in the housing market, further removing inventory from the market, reducing supply. This would likely be the unexpected consequence of eliminating those deductions. With home prices remaining at current levels, or even increasing as supply is restricted, along with the elimination of deductions – housing is now even less affordable.


If prices fell, owners would continue to sit on properties until values recovered. We are seeing this phenomenon across many real estate markets in the US. This shouldn’t be a surprise, we’ve only been talking about it for the past 5 years. Because values have not recovered, sellers either financially can’t sell the properties (under water, near negative equity, not enough equity to move), or psychologically (I’ll never sell it for less than it’s worth). In many regions we’re finally starting to see markets start to move again as values recover. Should prices stall, or fall, this impact of restricted supply will continue to impact the market for many more years (until prices recover).

For-purchase supply may also transition to for-rent supply as investors purchase more homes, due to the fact that corporate tax structure would favor corporate ownership of housing over individual ownership of housing. As investors purchase these homes and convert them to rentals, you further constrain housing inventory, pushing prices up as supply dwindles.

This would also create a strain on move-up buyers, causing them to remain in place as they now find that the marginal increase in housing costs to upgrade is no longer affordable or realistic, so now you have a large portion of owners who would have previously moved-up staying in place. You might also see a follow-on trend of expansion and renovation of existing housing stock in lieu of moving to a larger house. This has the overall negative effect of increasing the average cost of local housing stock (through renovation you turn a less expensive house into a more expensive house, that less expensive house is forever gone).

In places like NJ, where a very large portion of older/retired owners no longer have a mortgage and don’t claim the MID, these individuals would see no significant increase in housing costs that would cause them to sell their homes and downsize. This means a big chunk of current inventory does not see any precipitating factor to put their homes on the market. In fact, if the standard deduction increases, retirees might find it less expensive to remain in place, further amplifying the impact of reduced inventory.

We may also see an impact to increased rental prices as renters who don’t currently itemize see benefits of the increased standard deduction, this may manifest as increasing rental rates in areas with high rental demand. So, both sides of the affordability picture are impacted.

So there you have it, eliminate the MID and SALT, and housing becomes even more unaffordable. Believe me, the unintended consequence will prevail here. You cannot evaluate these types of scenarios as an either-or situation, even though logically you might want to. The problem is, the cat is already out of the bag, the deductions exist. You are not comparing two hypothetical situations, one with the deduction and one without, you are looking as a third situation, one where it existed, and now no longer exists – the outcome here will be very different than if it had never existed at all.

Elimination of these deductions without major short-term impacts would require removal of these at a slow, measured pace – for example, a 10 year phase-out based on income, with the income-based limits falling every year. I completely don’t understand why we have discussions involving broad changes rapid one-time events when we know that implementing these kinds of changes in a measured pace results in significantly easier to manage situations, without the risk of unintended consequence.

But hey, what do I know?

This entry was posted in Economics, National Real Estate, Politics, Property Taxes. Bookmark the permalink.

125 Responses to Why Trump’s tax plan will make housing even more unaffordable

  1. Juice Box says:

    Happy Friday everyone!

  2. Juice Box says:

    It’s all in the math would the new higher standard deduction be greater than itemizing? Itemize most likley not even be an option for like 80% of tax filers under this new tax plan.

  3. grim says:

    Roughly 41% of NJ residents currently itemize.

  4. grim says:

    Like I said in the other thread, if we’re going to lose the MID and SALT, I would personally like to see the deduction for charitable contributions eliminated, and keep the estate tax in place. If it’s going to hurt, make it hurt for everyone. No shell games with the deficit either.

  5. Grab them by the puzzy says:


    The first real numbers on Trump’s tax plan:

    Multi-millionaires get more than $700,000 back.

    The poorest fifth gets $60.

  6. Grab them by the puzzy says:


    When wealthy destroyed economy by 2008, their incomes went up. Middle class lost jobs, got wrecked. Now the wealthy need tax cuts. Jesus.

  7. grim says:

    So you must be ecstatic over Murphy, who can’t wait to increase NJ’s regressive property taxes. I can’t imagine what happens to places like the Oranges, or the multi families in Newark.

    NJ’s property taxes have contributed to our foreclosure crisis in our urban areas as bad as adjustable rate mortgages and shit mortgages have, but nobody is talking about that.

  8. Grab them by the puzzy says:

    GOP tax plan actually raises taxes on millions of middle-class families by repealing the state and local tax deduction, a real Trump Tax.

    In 2015, 41% of New Jerseyans took the State and Local Tax Deduction,
    and the average deduction was $17,850

  9. grim says:

    Trump’s tax plan is going nowhere anyway. He’ll try to pass it 2 or 3 times then move on to the next pussy to grab. He doesn’t have enough republican support at this time, and no way he’s getting it now.

  10. Juice Box says:

    Murphy’s plan to leverage the fractional Reserve System is the perfect New Jersey style solution to Kick the Can down the road another generation. Vote Murphy he’s not the politician we want he’s the politician we need!

  11. Grab them by the puzzy says:


    Unlike the Trump Administration, Sec. Mnuchin & Gary Cohn’s former employer @GoldmanSachs says the #TrumpTax plan would cost >$2.5 Trillion.

  12. Juice Box says:

    Re: roughly 41% of NJ residents currently itemize.

    The idea is to eliminate the complexities of the tax code and increase the standard deduction so under the new plan that percentage would drop significantly.

  13. grim says:

    So how many hundreds of pages of tax code are getting eliminated? Any? I think none are.

    This doesn’t eliminate any complexities of the tax code.

    I don’t personally think shifting from 7 brackets to 3 brackets is any real simplification, it’s just fewer brackets.

  14. grim says:

    When HR Block and Intuit go out of business, then I’ll agree that the tax code is simplified.

  15. Yo! says:

    Most NJ households don’t have mortgages so mortgage interest deduction means nothing to them. About 40% of NJ homebuyers don’t bother with mortgages they just pay cash (easy in NJ where homebuyers tend to be millionaires).

    On politics, Chris had more potential than any NJ governor in past 50 years. Tough, smart, pragmatic, knows how NJ system works. But he squandered it on national ambitions that went nowhere. Murphy and Guagdano are both losers – NJ will be worse 4 years from now.

  16. grim says:

    Most NJ households don’t have mortgages so mortgage interest deduction means nothing to them.

    Realistically it’s closer to 1/3rd.

  17. grim says:

    Not to mention that typical first time buyer in the State of NJ would be impacted by this.

    So cool, boomers f*cking over the millennials AGAIN.

    $400k loan and $10k annual tax bill, here’s your $24k standard deduction. It doesn’t take much to get there, $360k mortgage and $11k in taxes.

    And why exactly should the same family in Arkansas deserve a monstrous giveaway $24k standard deduction anyway? The point of the deductions is partly to avoid double taxation, paying tax on that same dollar twice. They aren’t paying taxes on that dollar, why get the benefit of the deduction at all?

    Why are we not discussing the negative revenue impact of the standard deduction in low-tax/low-cost states? Most of these states already get back more in federal spending than they pay in taxes, and they’ll get MORE?

  18. chicagofinance says:

    I would never short this stock. Instant death.

    Grab them by the puzzy says:
    October 12, 2017 at 5:57 pm
    stop complaining and covert your short

    chicagofinance says:
    October 12, 2017 at 12:29 pm
    The level of unchecked cash burn DEMANDS that he be a publicly traded company…….he comes to market each year to raise more money in secondaries…….how this action fails to set off warning alarms is beyond me…..those so diluted should be pissed….

    Blue Ribbon Teacher says:
    October 12, 2017 at 10:00 am
    If you didn’t want to be open to that type of analysis, they should have never made it a publicly traded company.

  19. STEAMturd questioning the gender of Hillary's Cankle fluid. says:

    Well said Yo. Christie was fantastic for NJ his first two years. Then he got popular after Sandy and had to go to the Republican playbook. On the bright side, he did get some control over property taxes with the leaky cap and binding arbitration for police salary negotiations. Unfortunately, it will all be erased come January when Drop-Kick Murphy takes over.

  20. Blue Ribbon Teacher says:

    I would never short this stock. Instant death.

    Right now, probably. I’m waiting for the S&P 500 PE ratio to go to ridiculous levels. Probably mid 2018. At that point, I’m going to put a decent amount of put options. I think once the broader market turns, you’ll see Tesla do the major drop it should.

  21. grim says:

    Unless he figures out how to make cars, and then you’re f*cked.

  22. 3b says:

    Boomers want it all! 400k for crap shacks 10 to 15k for taxes. Said yes to every spending referendum cause it makes their crap shack worth more. I truly feel bad for the millenials. Eventually they will be coming with pitch forks for the boomers.

  23. D-FENS says:

    What percentage of them itemize more than $24k.?

    Are most of these people in NE NJ?

    grim says:
    October 13, 2017 at 7:21 am
    Roughly 41% of NJ residents currently itemize.

  24. grim says:

    Not to mention Trump’s tax plan eliminates the dependent exemption of $4,050 per dependent.

    So if those first time buyers above have a kid, or two, that situation is even worse, you are f*cked.

  25. grim says:

    I don’t know, it’s pretty easy to get there.

    $15k mortgage interest
    $12k property taxes
    $8k 2 kids.
    $35k in deductions, exemptions – and that’s without anything else that you are now permitted to itemize, including state income tax and sales tax.

    now you go to $24k, a loss of $11k in deductions, in reality even higher.

    I don’t think you realize how much NJ is about to get f*cked.

  26. D-FENS says:

    The Tesla brand is valuable. People are fanatical about the company.

    Personally, I think they should have stuck to making high end electric vehicles. Like becoming the Ferrari of EV.

    With the model 3 they risk being trail blazers…then the larger automakers will gobble up their marketshare by cranking out cheaper alternative EV’s.

  27. D-FENS says:

    I get that there are a lot of people who will lose deductions…but I think there are just as many middle income people in NJ who will benefit and don’t have $24k in deductions today.

    Also, isn’t the rate going to be lower?

    grim says:
    October 13, 2017 at 9:05 am
    I don’t know, it’s pretty easy to get there.

    $15k mortgage interest
    $12k property taxes
    $8k 2 kids.
    $35k in deductions

    now you go to $24k, a loss of $11k in deductions.

  28. grim says:

    Also, isn’t the rate going to be lower?

    Not materially.

    $38k-$92k – 25% today, will be 25% under new plan

    $92k-$192k – 28% today, will drop to 25% under new plan.

    If you are unlucky enough to be at $193k, you move up from 33% to 35%.

    Just for shits and giggles, at a joint income of $140k.

    First $92k – $23.0k in taxes
    Next $48k – $13.4k in taxes (28%)
    $36.4k total

    First $92k – $23.0k in taxes
    Next $48k – $12.0k in taxes (25%)
    $35.0k total

    Savings of $1,400

    In the example above, the $11k loss in deductions would have been worth more than $3,000. Add two kids and it’s closer to $5k.

    So, net, $3,500 more in taxes in just this simple example. Also consider IM NOT EVEN INCLUDING LOSS OF STATE INCOME TAX DEDUCTION.

    Pretty easy to concoct numerous scenarios with a young family with 2 kids in a house paying closer to $5,000 more a year in taxes.

    That’s $400 less a month out of the monthly budget. If you can afford to pay that and not have it impact your household, god bless you.

  29. The Great Pumpkin says:


    It’s obvious you support this tax reform plan. Why are you for screwing your own state? I don’t get it.

  30. STEAMturd questioning the gender of Hillary's Cankle fluid. says:

    D is probably in the sweet spot. >400K income.


  31. D-FENS says:

    That’s kind of the way I feel about people who plan on voting for Phil Murphy.

  32. grim says:

    Meanwhile Cletus in Klan County, Arkansas sees $200 more in his pocket every month. Fuck that.

  33. The Great Pumpkin says:


    You want to help middle America at our expense? We already give enough to them. We already produce so much more in this economy, so why should we give more to the unproductive? They aren’t getting crumbs, they are eating the main course.

  34. D-FENS says:

    What do you produce?

  35. The Great Pumpkin says:

    My problem with him is what has he done for the business community? Wtf? What was his mission the past 8 years with being innovative and creating a plan for new redevelopment for business in the 21st century. He just handed out huge tax breaks to corporations for pretty much nothing in return. What he did with Exxon was criminal. How he let trump off the hook for the 30 million in taxes is criminal. So he was able to keep property taxes down in his term because he was just kicking the can down the road. He just wanted to look good in front of the national republican base…..I beat up the big bad teachers union and I kept the highest property taxes in the nation in check. Boy, did it work at first, till bridgegate came out and reminded everyone why you should never trust a fat politician that bullies his competition instead of working with them on a solid plan.

    STEAMturd questioning the gender of Hillary’s Cankle fluid. says:
    October 13, 2017 at 8:48 am
    Well said Yo. Christie was fantastic for NJ his first two years. Then he got popular after Sandy and had to go to the Republican playbook. On the bright side, he did get some control over property taxes with the leaky cap and binding arbitration for police salary negotiations. Unfortunately, it will all be erased come January when Drop-Kick Murphy takes over.

  36. The Great Pumpkin says:

    Based on property taxes alone, more than you? Do you pay 30,000 to the state of nj in property taxes?

    D-FENS says:
    October 13, 2017 at 9:31 am
    What do you produce?

  37. The Great Pumpkin says:

    And that shows you what type of individuals run for team red. They were embracing a bully governor who belittled and put down people for not agreeing with him. Would you allow a teacher to talk to your kids like that, so why did you support a governor that did it to the tax paying citizens of this state? Wrong in every possible way.

    That’s why trump supporters are messed up too. How do they support this guy based on what he has said and his actions. You would allow a teacher to talk like trump does to your child? So why do you allow the president to do this crap? It’s disgusting to have leaders who are supposed to be role models behaving like this and watching their party support them to no end.

  38. The Great Pumpkin says:

    Glad some Republicans have some balls to say Trump is wrong and refuse to support this type of behavior.

  39. nwnj says:

    grim, the answer to many of your questions lies in the election heat maps. It’s no different with Trump.

  40. grim says:

    NJ republicans are about to turn into democrats.

  41. nwnj says:

    Nothing more heart warming than watching progressive liberals turn against each other. Maybe if these starlets hadn’t been seduced by the phony intrigues of hollywood they wouldn’t have been prone to these predators.

    Just in the past few months we’ve seen the progressive civic groups turning on each other, now the left wing celebrity factions are breaking down. It’s a glorious time.

    The next thing I’d like to see implode is the fake news industry. NBC and NYTimes both sat on this Weinstien story. Are they going to be held accountable for enabling him?

  42. STEAMturd questioning the gender of Hillary's Cankle fluid. says:

    Yup! Same as it always was in NJ.

    As for the bullying? That’s was more of a lefty narrative.

    Name one single Murphy accomplishment? Just one. You can’t, because there aren’t any. He bought his endorsements. Believe me, bend over and pass the Astro Glide.

  43. grim says:

    How Keith Richards hasn’t been handcuffed now is beyond me. All those impressionable young fans…

  44. grim says:

    Or, how rap music even exists right now.

  45. grim says:

    Especially white rappers..

    The sheriff’s after me for what I did to his daughter
    I did it like this, I did it like that
    I did it with a whiffleball bat

  46. STEAMturd questioning the gender of Hillary's Cankle fluid. says:

    “NBC and NYTimes both sat on this Weinstien story. Are they going to be held accountable for enabling him?”

    The answer is no! The left ignores all news stories that don’t fit the narrative. When progressives like Weinstein or a Weiner are revealed as sexual deviants, it’s a case of a couple of bad apples or one-offs. It’s as if it never happens. When a Republican SAYS, “Grab ’em by the puzzy.” You will never hear the end of it. It will show up on billboards, be reported in history books, repeated weekly on SNL until it becomes annoying. Even to the wonkiest lefty.

    A few days ago, I posted the article that I posted here about that miscreant black man in Charlotte having been brought up on assault charges, who got his ass absolutely kicked by the white supremacists after swinging a club at them, to the Discuss Montclair forum. I also posted the video that was removed from youtube, though it’s still widely available from other sources. This board is unmoderated and is really great because people can talk about issues like race openly. Guess how many comments the story garnered? Three. A week ago, an article with the headline, “The White Privilege of the “Lone Wolf” Shooter,” had hundreds of comments.

    If it doesn’t fit the narrative, progressives don’t even attempt to justify it. They simply ignore it.

  47. Juice Box says:

    re: “I don’t think you realize how much NJ is about to get f*cked.”

    Elections have consequences and in-order for Trump to win mid-terms and the next presidential election they are already campaigning for they needs yes I said “needs” to give Cletus an extra month $200 a month.

    The fact is we are uppity northerners who did not vote for Trump and that goes for Californian sling-blade mother*fu*c*ker*s too!

  48. grim says:

    Someone a few days back posted a tweet, something like Weinstein gets fired, but Trump gets elected.

    Seems they forgot about Clinton, who sexually assaulted a woman IN THE F*CKING OVAL OFFICE.

  49. grim says:

    And sorry, but given the position of authority, there is no such thing as consent in that situation, it does not exist, there is no scenario where anything was even remotely consensual, even if there was no objection, even with positive affirmation, it is not consensual.

  50. Juice Box says:

    Grim – it was consensual….

  51. The Great Pumpkin says:

    Didn’t you vote for a president that was caught red handed stating “grab her by the pu$$y?” You see how this works, you don’t care when it’s your team, but care when the other team is associated with it.

    “The next thing I’d like to see implode is the fake news industry. NBC and NYTimes both sat on this Weinstien story. Are they going to be held accountable for enabling him?”

  52. The Great Pumpkin says:

    My point is not defend either side. If we care about respecting the flag during the national anthem, shouldn’t we respect our country by putting down people that treat other human beings like garbage.

    Bottom line, both sides are wrong here. Both choose to support their team to no end. This is what’s wrong with America right now. Puppets everywhere doing the bid of corrupt rich powerful men.

  53. STEAMturd questioning the gender of Hillary's Cankle fluid. says:

    Wrong. I didn’t vote. Never will pull a lever when the candidates suck. Second, he did SAY it. Doesn’t mean he DID it. Clinton DID it. Over and over and over again! Not that I speak that way about my sexual proclivities, but in the context that Trump said it? It’s hardly damning. I think when DNC operatives sign an email, “No Homo.” The damage should be much worse. But when someone from YOUR party says it? Feh.

  54. Juice Box says:

    Pumps – you don’t strike me as a locker room kind of guy, but I will give you the benefit of the doubt that you are masculine. Did you ever say any dirty words about female anatomy in your life?

  55. The Great Pumpkin says:

    I agree, but America had their chance to do something about Clinton and Trump. It says a lot about the character of our nation that we turn a blind eye to this behavior. Just remember, it could be your daughter next that is subject to men that behave like this.

  56. Juice Box says:

    I hear the SJWs now want to eliminate punctuation especially the dreadful period they are triggered by a . apparently. . . . . . . . …….. …. …. … …. …. ………… ….. ……………. ……

  57. STEAMturd questioning the gender of Hillary's Cankle fluid. says:

    The statement, grab them by the pussy, doesn’t really even make sense.

  58. STEAMturd questioning the gender of Hillary's Cankle fluid. says:

    The statement, grab them by the puzzy, doesn’t really even make sense.

  59. D-FENS says:


    FBI agents in Puerto Rico have been receiving calls from “across the island” with residents complaining local officials are “withholding” or “mishandling” critical FEMA supplies — with one island official even accused of stuffing his own car full of goods meant for the suffering populace.

    The accusations come in the aftermath of deadly Hurricane Maria, which devastated the U.S. territory last month.
    “The complaints we’re hearing is that mayors of local municipalities, or people associated with their offices, are giving their political supporters special treatment, goods they’re not giving to other people who need them,” FBI Special Agent Carlos Osorio told Fox News.

    Osorio, an agent with the FBI in San Juan, said the bureau was investigating the allegations.

    “The U.S. attorney has made it clear if anyone is caught mishandling FEMA supplies, they will be prosecuted and could end up facing anywhere from five to 20 years in prison,” Osorio said.

    Some of the claims have come by phone and others have poured in over social media, but the allegations stretch across the island.

    Osorio told of one allegation where a party official is accused of pulling his own car around the back of a government building and driving off after loading it full of FEMA supplies.

    “We’re going out and investigating these claims,” Osorio said. “We don’t know yet if they’re accurate or not…but yes we have received many similar allegations from people in many different parts of the island.”

  60. grim says:

    The statement, grab them by the puzzy, doesn’t really even make sense.

    It does if your a 13 year old in the gym class locker room, bragging about imagined conquests.

  61. grim says:

    Puerto Rico politicians corrupt? No, can’t be.

  62. grim says:

    Consumer sentiment at a 13 year high, at least we won’t be pushing apple carts.

  63. exjersey says:

    We’ll wreck soon enough….c-c-crash

  64. exjersey says:

    10:35. I’ve adopted the phrase and enacted it’s tenets to mixed reviews….

  65. STEAMturd questioning the gender of Hillary's Cankle fluid. says:

    I tried it with Gator. It didn’t work. I lack the kung-fu grip.

  66. No One says:

    Yep, Trump’s clumsy statement actually suggested to me that he isn’t expert in the act of sexual conquest. Though he may have tried a few times and got slapped down.
    HW seems like a guy constantly harassing and failing and disgusting people. For decades, yet overlooked because he donated to lefty causes and gave people big paydays.

  67. exjersey says:

    11:35. Overlooked because he was not POTUS ya dumbazz

  68. The Great Pumpkin says:

    World is changing quickly right before our eyes. I don’t know if this is a good thing or bad thing….

    “She continued to press the point, as it relates directly to the Bank of England and the Federal Reserve.

    “How would monetary policy be set in this context? Today’s central banks typically affect asset prices through primary dealers, or big banks, to which they provide liquidity at fixed prices — so-called open-market operations. But if these banks were to become less relevant in the new financial world, and demand for central bank balances were to diminish, could monetary policy transmission remain as effective?”

    She put a question mark after that last sentence, but she might as well have made the statement: Monetary policy cannot be effective in this world. In fact, it is worse. It might not matter at all.

    It’s an astonishing thing to consider. For more than a century, academics, regulators, captains of finance and high-level government officials have worked to find the perfect monetary policy to stabilize the macroeconomy, provide liquidity for growth without inflation and otherwise become masters of economic planning.

    But this entire machinery is premised on two important conditions. First, the government must have the monopoly on money. It has held this for more than a century. Government prints the money, controls its supply, imposes legal tender and regulates against the enforcement of contracts denominated in unofficial currency. And second, most of this money has to be held in some way in the banking system. If you take away both of those, the cause of central banking has a serious problem pursuing any form of monetary planning at all.

    That is indeed a very different world. And it is no wonder that the ruling class is concerned.”


  69. D-FENS says:

    No. Overlooked?? …more like people were scared of him because he aligned himself with powerful politicians and controlled much of the film industry. As well as his DNC fundraising efforts.

    He could also smear you in the press.

    “The tactics the Weinstein apparatus allegedly employed are wide-ranging. “Harvey could spin — or suppress — anything; there were so many journalists on his payroll,” Traister wrote, “working as consultants on movie projects, or as screenwriters, or for his magazine.”

    “They buy journalists, they threaten journalists, they do whatever they have to,” a veteran entertainment reporter told HuffPost of the Weinstein team. The apparatus surrounding Weinstein could be relentless. The veteran reporter said that his news outlet would try to hide reporters’ names from the Weinstein team while they worked on stories about him, out of fear that Weinstein would interfere with ongoing investigations.

    Journalists have whispered about lucrative book deals or other paid gigs offered to their peers in what some saw as quid pro quo deals to secure future positive press. Occasionally there were more than whispers. “Where’s my script?” Weinstein reportedly once yelled at a Page Six reporter during a party.”


  70. Comrade Nom Deplorable, surfacing for air says:

    ” STEAMturd questioning the gender of Hillary’s Cankle fluid. says:
    October 13, 2017 at 11:20 am

    I tried it with Gator. It didn’t work. I lack the kung-fu grip.”

    I think you’re sleeping on the couch this week.

  71. Comrade Nom Deplorable, surfacing for air says:

    Puzzy, how are you able to post so much? I thought you were in rehab in Arizona?

  72. The Great Pumpkin says:

    What are the dangers of this crypto based currency? I have to say hackers. What’s to stop them from figuring out a way to steal it? Knowing human nature, they will find a way to break in and steal.

  73. grim says:

    I tried it with Gator. It didn’t work. I lack the kung-fu grip.

    I imagined it more like grabbing the ear of a bratty kid than, you know, bowling.

    Grab you by the balls is much more self-explanatory.

  74. Yo! says:

    Grim 8:15 – Census data shows 36% of NJ households rent, 19% own without a mortgage, 45% own with a mortgage. I stand by my statement that most NJ households don’t have mortgages.

  75. Comrade Nom Deplorable, surfacing for air says:

    Puzzy-stein also used a trick often employed by the wealthy in anticipation of divorce proceedings: he hired attorneys who might be thorns in his side someday, thereby conflicting them out. And hiring Lisa Bloom is a likely twofer.


  76. grim says:

    Eliminating property tax deductions will likely result in direct rent increases, especially in mom-pop renter scenarios that are common in NJ.

  77. grim says:

    Census data shows 36% of NJ households rent, 19% own without a mortgage, 45% own with a mortgage.

    Doesn’t jive – what about rental units that are mortgaged? The numbers should not add up to 100%.

  78. STEAMturd questioning the gender of Hillary's Cankle fluid. says:

    My rent roll is directly based on how much my taxes cost me. I’ve never raised my rent on a current tenant by more than my tax increase. There’s gonna be a big increase this year if you can’t write off the property taxes on investment properties.

  79. Blue Ribbon Teacher says:

    Wow, bitcoin touched $5700 today.

  80. The Great Pumpkin says:

    Bitcoin is like a penny stock with huge amounts of players. Ride it while it’s hot, but don’t be caught if bad news comes….you will lose everything within minutes. Honestly though, it’s looking like it’s here to stay. Heard institutions are now getting involved.

    I just don’t see how they can protect themselves from hackers. There’s always a way in no matter how complicated the system is.

  81. PumpkinFace says:

    Your tenants pay half, idiot.

    The Great Pumpkin says:
    October 13, 2017 at 9:37 am
    Based on property taxes alone, more than you? Do you pay 30,000 to the state of nj in property taxes?

  82. STEAMturd questioning the gender of Hillary's Cankle fluid. says:

    ha, ha, ha, ha.

  83. The Great Pumpkin says:

    If you want to think like that….then my tenants also help pay for the taxes on my single family home. Profit is profit, right?

    Bottom line, who signs the check to the state of NJ? Who is being productive? I took money, invested in real estate, and I am now producing a profit off my initial investment which helps pay taxes to support our society.

  84. D-FENS says:

    Murphy – Weinstein Fundraiser cancelled.
    Murphy – HRC Fundraser now on…

  85. The Great Pumpkin says:

    How do you contribute to our society? Do you help put a roof over someone’s head? I didn’t think so.

  86. The Great Pumpkin says:

    All this Weinstein talk…you are telling me that there is not a republican donor right now doing the same thing?

  87. STEAMturd questioning the gender of Hillary's Cankle fluid. says:

    Is this guy for real?

    “Bottom line, both sides are wrong here. Both choose to support their team to no end. This is what’s wrong with America right now.”

    “All this Weinstein talk…you are telling me that there is not a republican donor right now doing the same thing?”

    It’s 2 EZ

  88. The Great Pumpkin says:

    Yes, you just summed up my point. So I am for real. I’m simply pointing out that some Republican donor is probably doing the same thing. Would you give the same attention if Weinstein was Republican donor? That’s my point.

  89. STEAMturd questioning the gender of Hillary's Cankle fluid. says:

    I would. I really haven’t found many clean politicians whatsoever. Well Bernie is a relatively straight shooter, but he’s not a member of one of the two corrupt parties. Hmmm.

  90. D-FENS says:

    The security guard who was shot shortly before the Las Vegas mass shooting has gone missing:


    Where in the world is Jesus Campos?

    The Mandalay Bay security guard shot by Stephen Paddock in the moments leading up to the worst mass shooting in modern U.S. history was set to break his silence Thursday night with five television interviews, including one on Fox News, Campos’ union president said.

    Except when the cameras were about to roll, and media gathered in the building to talk to him, Campos reportedly bolted, and, as of early Friday morning, it wasn’t immediately clear where he was.

    Stephanie Wash ✔ @WashNews
    Media scrum tonight as we learn security officer shot in Vegas attack, Jesus Campos’ whereabouts are unknown.

    “We were in a room and we came out and he was gone,” Campos’ union president told reporters, according to ABC News’ Stephanie Wash.

  91. The Great Pumpkin says:

    “US capitalism is again careening down blind alleys. Earlier it had crashed into the Great Depression from 1929 to 1933 before lurching into the New Deal. After 1945 it concentrated on rolling back the New Deal until it turned sharply to neoliberalism and “globalism” in the 1970s. That provided the comforting illusion of a few decades of “prosperous normalcy.””


  92. grim says:

    Well shit, first they called the guy a hero for stopping the attack.

    Now it seems perhaps he precipitated it.

    Shooter was not shooting out the window until after he shot Campos. The big question to me is now, was the window broken before, or after, Campos was shot.

    If the window was broken immediately afterwards, well…

    Not that you are going to blame Campos for what happened, not what I’m saying.

    Campos earlier stated that the shooter was drilling a hole in the wall for a camera when he wandered over. If the shooter was at the window, he would have never seen Campos in the hall. So it’s clear, if there was prep going on, it was interrupted, but the shooting did not happen yet.

    Seems plausible that the shooter panicked after shooting Campos. If he was in the midst of some kind of psychotic paranoid delusion (they are out to get me, they are on to me, they are coming for me), who knows?

  93. 3b says:

    On a more mundane note anyone know if PHilips TV’s are good?

  94. 3b says:


  95. Juice Box says:

    British TV like British car?

  96. Juice Box says:

    Is there some kind of new driving Trend where people drive 40 miles an hour in the fast lane with their emergency blinkers on while wearing earbuds?

  97. 3b says:

    Juice every consumer reports review said garbage. 100 bucks more I will go for s Samsung.

  98. 3b says:

    Juice those people are special that’s why

  99. Anon E. Moose, Ghost of JJ says:


    Great post. Steeped in experience.

  100. Juice Box says:

    3B Pro tip Sony’s warranties are usually 18 months. And they do honor them I got them to replace my 4K TV after developing a line on the screen about 14 months.

  101. Anon E. Moose, Ghost of JJ says:


    Don’t you ever tire of spitting out what the Democratic party put in your mouth? Get a life.

  102. The Great Pumpkin says:

    “In fact, I think we’re about to enter the greatest bull market we’ve seen in decades.

    If that seems like a bold claim, just consider the signs staring us in the face…

    The market is already up 20% since the election.

    The Dow Jones crossed 20,000 for the first time in history.

    The Federal Reserve has finally decided to raise interest rates – an action that many investors see a ringing endorsement for the strength of the U.S. economy..

    Trump has already claimed to save thousands of jobs by publicly shaming massive companies like Ford and Carrier for opening factories in Mexico.

    Wall Street investors are abandoning bonds and piling into stocks.

    The value of the U.S. dollar hit a 14-year high, surging to its highest level since 2002.

    The list of promising signs goes on and on. Add it all together and it looks like we could be sitting on a powder keg of market potential that’s unlike anything we’ve seen in a recent memory.”

  103. Blue Ribbon Teacher says:

    I wouldn’t call bitcoin a penny stock anymore when it’s market cap exceeds Goldman Sachs. It’s here to stay. It’s true value, nobody knows.

  104. Juice Box says:

    Blue – bitcoins are finite FIAT is not.

  105. exjersey says:

    Hasn’t bitcoin crashed a couple of times already??

  106. Juice Box says:

    About 25% of the coins are lost. Forgotten passwords, crashed computers etc.

  107. Juice Box says:

    Bored so I’ll spout..

    re: “We’ll wreck soon enough….c-c-crash”

    Yeah dude I know you know that I know that you know that we know that the next bubble has to be bigger than the last…

    I was at Google yesterday, no not for the food but for the fun, and I missed it by one day dammit. I cannot even the describe 1.0 bust anymore now 2.0? All those smiling faces yesterday all the happiness, and all the flowing wine etc…


  108. abeiz says:

    Philips TV’s are inferior. I believe they also produce Insignia/Magnavox sets for WalMart outlet type places.

    Please, please do yourself a favor and purchase an OLED set. These are becoming more common and prices have decreased drastically (10K, 8K, 4K, 3K and now 2-2.5K). In a regular LED set all pixels are assigned a color and then lit from behind by a luminous panel, this is why when you are watching in a pitch black room you can see blacks as greys. In an organic LED set, each pixel is “powered” individually. The result is stunning, jaw dropping intense color and perfect black (when a pixel is called to display black, it simply doesn’t light up). Our eyes interpret contrast as the range between the darkest and the brightest pixel and OLED’s ability to span the gamut from full black to brightly lit pixels makes the image appear intensely vivid. When my wife and I watch at night we cannot tell where the TV ends and the wall begins…this is not an exaggeration. Characters in dark scenes with no defined edges just seemingly float in mid air.

    LG makes great affordable OLED’s. I don’t know if this is for the in-law suite
    or the main room but well worth considering.

    Disclaimer, I am not a couch potato, we don’t even have cable or anything, but this technology is just some jaw dropping sh!t.

    Here’s a Costco model (3 year warranty and if u swipe the right credit card can add an extra year): https://slickdeals.net/f/10632780-costco-lg-oled-55-b7p-with-extra-3-year-warranty-and-6-months-sling-for-1799?src=catpagev2

  109. The Great Pumpkin says:

    Enjoy the good times, when this huge boom coming peaks and falls off a cliff sometime in the late 2020’s…..not going to lie, the thought sends chills through my body. But just remember, life finds a way and will go on.

    “I was at Google yesterday, no not for the food but for the fun, and I missed it by one day dammit. I cannot even the describe 1.0 bust anymore now 2.0? All those smiling faces yesterday all the happiness, and all the flowing wine etc…”

  110. chicagofinance says:

    late 2020’s? Dude….there is a lot of living to happen between now and then…..

  111. The Great Pumpkin says:

    Yes, lots of good times ahead, just have to remember that good times don’t last forever. Always a price to pay.

    That’s the sad truth they never tell the general public…..the bigger the boom, the bigger the bust.

  112. dentss dunnigan says:

    Any loss of deductability of taxes and MI will be offset by housing price drops …..stands to reason affordability is the name of the game

  113. chicagofinance says:

    More lewd references……. really? Sat AM?

    The Great Pumpkin says:
    October 14, 2017 at 8:58 am
    …..the bigger the boom, the bigger the bust.

  114. Grab them by the puzzy says:

    The “Businessman” some people thought could run government,
    is cheering on falling stock prices.


    Health Insurance stocks, which have gone through the roof during the ObamaCare years, plunged yesterday after I ended their Dems windfall!

  115. Grab them by the puzzy says:


    So wait.

    Stocks go up: Trump is awesome.
    Stocks go down: Trump is awesome.

    I like this job.

  116. abeiz says:

    “Any loss of deductability of taxes and MI will be offset by housing price drops …..stands to reason affordability is the name of the game”

    Having witnessed the dysfunction in RE markets over the last few years, this will not proliferate through as fast as you think it will. In fact, and even though I share your opinion of what (should happen), I think we’ll see more sideways stalemate bulsh!t.

  117. 3b says:

    Abeiiz thanks on the tv information.

  118. The Great Pumpkin says:

    “Hawks on Capitol Hill and in the US military routinely justify increases in the Defense Department’s already munificent budget by arguing that yet more money is needed to “support the troops.” If you’re already nodding in agreement, let me explain just where a huge chunk of the Pentagon budget—hundreds of billions of dollars—really goes. Keep in mind that it’s your money we’re talking about.

    The answer couldn’t be more straightforward: It goes directly to private corporations and much of it is then wasted on useless overhead, fat executive salaries, and startling (yet commonplace) cost overruns on weapons systems and other military hardware that, in the end, won’t even perform as promised. Too often the result is weapons that aren’t needed at prices we can’t afford. If anyone truly wanted to help the troops, loosening the corporate grip on the Pentagon budget would be an excellent place to start.”


  119. The Great Pumpkin says:

    Good old private sector never gets the blame. Instead it’s welfare kids and govt employees to blame. What a joke.

  120. The Great Pumpkin says:

    Good read.

    “1. It is impossible for the US to be forced to default on the debt–period. That’s not an opinion or a forecast, it’s a fact. Our debt is not in pesos or euros or yen, it’s in a currency we are allowed to print–dollars. Printing dollars may have other consequences (although in an economy at less-than-full employment, it likely would not), but it also means that we can never run short of them. Bottom line: the US being forced to default on the debt is a logical impossibility. It should be completely off the table as a topic for discussion and anyone who believes otherwise simply doesn’t understand the underlying economics. (For more, see, for example It Is Impossible For The US To Default.)

    2. The private sector needs government spending (Why the Private Sector NEEDS the Government to Spend Money). The primary driver of the economy is physical investment spending, or the expenditures firms undertake to add to their capacity (see for example Why Do Recessions Happen?). Unfortunately, investment is very unstable and thus we often find ourselves struggling to reach the level of GDP that will create enough jobs to employ everyone who would like to work. This is especially true when trying to recover from a recession since those who could spend in the private sector are rightly too scared to do so. That leaves a gap that only one entity can fill: the government. Unlike a business, the government doesn’t have to generate a profit. In fact, we don’t want it to, because when they have a profit it means that we must have a loss! It is an irrefutable fact of accounting that if one entity earns more than it spends, then others must have spent more than they earned. When the US federal government is in deficit, the rest of us are in surplus. And when the federal government reduces its deficit, as so many are arguing it should, our surplus shrinks along with it.

    3. We don’t have to look far in terms of recent experience to see that this has already occurred. The National Bureau of Economic Research dated the end of the recession caused by the Financial Crisis as second quarter 2009. That was twenty two quarters ago. Since then, growth has been sluggish, with an average annual increase in GDP (adjusted for inflation) of 2.37%. Generally speaking, we figure the economy needs to grow about 2.5% to 3% just to stay in the same place in terms of employment and incomes.

    Now see below how changes in government spending affected this performance. Not only was our average rate of growth significantly higher when it increased, but it fell in every single one of our four worst quarters.”


  121. The Great Pumpkin says:

    The part people miss with this, nj has one of the highest avg incomes in the country. So yes, you might pay a higher percentage of your salary, but isn’t that a good thing if it’s based off a higher total. Meaning, you want a 10% tax rate in a location that averages 50,000, or would rather pay 12% and avg 78,000?

    “New Jersey residents spend an average of 12.2 percent of their income on taxes, according to Kiplinger. “

  122. The Great Pumpkin says:

    Hey expat, some neighbors on my street are starting a coalition to lower the speed limit on my street to 25 mph on the basis that it’s a residential neighborhood. They will be addressing it to the town council this week. They seem pretty hellbent, and highly organized. Hope they get what they want so maybe you will finally stfu about my home.

  123. abeiz says:

    Sure thing 3b.

    Also, OLED panels are, oh I don’t know about 3-5mm’s thick. They’ve already begun to separate the panel from the processing unit on the Bravia’s I believe, thus allowing the 3mm screen to be hung like a painting. Completely flexible screens are next.

    I read the new iPhone X – which also uses OLED technology – is able to go edge to edge because the screen actually curves under itself, thus tucking the controller neatly under the screen and not under the non-existent bezel.

    Drove home through the ghettos of 1-9 this evening. Saw one giant 70″ screen after another. Amateurs buy decontented 70″ at WalMart and watch them from six feet out.

    It is a premium over the big box special, but well worth it.

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