On the bright side, it’ll be so affordable nobody will want to leave

From the Philly Inquirer:

‘It’s going to make it more expensive to live here’: Why N.J., Pa. might face housing blow under GOP tax bill

Usually, Tom Bracken said, he would do cartwheels over a plan to cut corporate taxes.

Instead, this week the president of the New Jersey Chamber of Commerce blasted the Republican tax plan now nearing the finish line, saying it would harm property values in the Garden State and discourage quality workers from moving there.

“It’s going to make it more expensive to live here,” Bracken said on a media call.

He and other critics, including the New Jersey Business and Industry Association — which also said the plan “will negatively impact property values” — worry about the plan’s ripple effects on housing due to proposed limitations on valuable deductions for mortgage interest and state and local taxes. Those changes, critics argue, could also squeeze local governments that rely on local taxes to fund schools and services.

“New Jersey’s going to feel this pretty significantly,” said Dave Jones, a tax and real estate expert at Temple’s Fox School of Business.

Kevin Gillen, an economist at the Lindy Institute at Drexel University, said homeowners in South Jersey would be more affected than those in Pennsylvania. The Jersey Shore, in particular, could take a hit because the property-tax deduction could be eliminated for second homes, and the Shore has some of the most expensive houses in the region.

“I don’t think it will affect homeownership so much as it will affect home prices,” he said. “You’re not willing to pay as much for a home as you would otherwise.”

Democrats and Realtors said alarm bells should still sound in suburbs outside Philadelphia, where home prices and property taxes can also be high.

“If you have a home in a middle- or upper-middle-class area [around] Philadelphia right now, under this GOP tax plan, you’re at risk of seeing a drop in your home value,” said Rep. Brendan Boyle (D., Pa.), whose district is split between Northeast Philadelphia and suburban Montgomery County.

Jamie Ridge, president of the Suburban Realtors Alliance, which represents Realtors from Montgomery, Chester, Bucks, and Delaware Counties, said his members “are extremely concerned.”

“Most of the time when you’re trying to determine what a family can afford, the mortgage interest deduction and state and local property taxes and state and local income taxes all play into that,” Ridge said.

This entry was posted in Demographics, Economics, New Jersey Real Estate, Philly, Politics. Bookmark the permalink.

95 Responses to On the bright side, it’ll be so affordable nobody will want to leave

  1. grim says:

    So, what’s the point? From Bloomberg:

    GOP’s Taxing Question: Will Middle-Class Folks Notice Their Cut?

    A funny thing happened when Congress approved a tax cut for the middle class eight years ago: Most Americans didn’t notice.

    The 2009 economic-stimulus bill contained a one-year tax break worth $800 for married couples in 95 percent of working households — a little over $15 a week. A February 2010 poll found that just 12 percent said their taxes had been reduced. More than half, 53 percent, said they saw no change. A remarkable 24 percent thought their taxes had increased.

    “Virtually nobody believed they got a tax cut,” said Jared Bernstein, an economist who worked in former President Barack Obama’s White House. He called it a source of frustration at the time.

    That 2009 tax cut contains warning signs for President Donald Trump and congressional Republicans. Their tax plans would deliver about the same level of initial relief to households with incomes between $40,000 and $100,000 — roughly $800 on average — according to data from Congress’s Joint Committee on Taxation. If those numbers hold, and if history’s any guide, Trump’s working-class voters may not feel the tax cut he has repeatedly promised them.

    The numbers are a little more generous in an independent analysis of the Senate bill published last week; it found that the plan would raise average after-tax incomes by $1,200 per household in 2019. But that report by the Urban-Brookings Tax Policy Center found that more benefits go to higher earners, affecting the average. Regardless, that’s just over $23 a week.

    “The changes are going to be too small for people to recognize,” said Bernstein, now a senior fellow at the liberal Center on Budget and Policy Priorities. “Most families won’t see anything from the plan until they file their 2018 taxes in April 2019.”

  2. Mike says:

    Honestly when looking for a home I never factored in the SALT deduction
    Still needed a home to live in regardless.

  3. Mike says:

    Oh Good Morning New Jersey

  4. grim says:

    Honestly when looking for a home I never factored in the SALT deduction
    Still needed a home to live in regardless.

    Agree, the bigger focus was always on what the actual taxes were, what the mortgage rate was, essentially the total PITI. However, hard to say that the deductions aren’t sitting somewhere in the back of your brain in this process.

    I will say, I didn’t realize that NJ property tax deductions were limited to $10k.

  5. yome says:

    If builders refuse to build Affordable Homes due to loss of deduction,Prices will go up.

    This explains affordabilty in housing can get worst under the new tax plan

    http://money.cnn.com/2017/12/09/pf/tax-reform-housing-affordability/index.html?iid=hp-stack-dom

  6. yome says:

    Affordable Homes or Starter Homes are the Backbone for a Starting Family. Shortage of this homes will make prices go up. We need to remember,buyers of this homes will be taking Standard Deduction of $24,000. Taking out SALT will not hurt them as much as the Millionaire that is on a Payroll Income, that will still be taking Long Deductions but can only Deduct to the Limit

    With Congress plan at 12% upto $90,000 taking Standard Deduction , making $150,000, I will be paying $400 more a year with 2 houses.

  7. Yome says:

    Best comparison is renting vs owning. $300k house with $10k property tax with standard deduction is cheaper than renting today, if you can get a low rate at 15 years mortgage. Housing should be more concern with rising interest rates than SALT

  8. ExJersey says:

    Renting doesn’t require a downpayment.

  9. Daddy Deported says:

    After 15 years of owning I am glad to be pocketing $400K of equity from the sale of our 900 square foot condo and renting a $700K home for $2950/month. It seems like my timing was not too bad either.

  10. Daddy Deported says:

    BTW, that’s $2950 furnished, so move in on January 1st last year was a piece of cake.

  11. Daddy Deported says:

    I imagine the Boston RE market will remain OK for a while because our property taxes are low and subsidized by the city for owner-occupiers, plus wealthy people from NY & NJ people keep sending their kids up here with big bags of college money.

  12. Daddy Deported says:

    The dopey bomber didn’t even blow himself up completely (non-life threatening injuries, Bloomberg radio is reporting)

    Terrorist attack at Port Authority, pipe bomb exploded

  13. Daddy Deported says:

    La Maison du Bitcoin:

    https://lamaisondubitcoin.fr/

  14. Daddy Deported says:

    Criminal family, criminal friends. Shocker!

    The Great Pumpkin says:
    December 10, 2017 at 6:02 pm
    More proof that 100k is crap for our area. A friend of mine made 112k this year along with money under the table for side jobs by being an electrician. Money is being made out there people, you can cry about cops amd teachers salaries, or get it and take advantage of this location.

  15. Daddy Deported says:

    BTW, Pumps electrician “friend” is his brother so he gets double points.

  16. Daddy Deported says:

    There’ll probably be so many NFL teams that finish 10-6 this year that only half of them will make it to they playoffs.

  17. Grab them by the puzzy says:

    @MichaelSLinden

    Sorry, which of these is “helping the middle class”?

    * Cutting taxes for the 1%
    * Raising taxes on 83 million families making under $200k
    * Reducing overtime eligibility
    * Letting big banks block people from suing them when they swindle them
    * Letting airlines hide baggage fees

  18. Grab them by the puzzy says:

    @MichaelSLinden

    Here’s some amendments Roy Moore thinks we’re better off without:

    13 – Abolished slavery
    14 – Due process, equal protection
    15 – Right to vote regardless of race
    19 – Right to vote regardless of sex
    24 – No poll taxes
    26 – Voting age to 18

  19. grim says:

    Sounds like we are lucky the isis terrorist this morning was almost completely inept and accidentally blew himself up.

  20. Grab them by the puzzy says:

    guy is a GOP operative

    grim says:
    December 11, 2017 at 9:36 am
    Sounds like we are lucky the isis terrorist this morning was almost completely inept and accidentally blew himself up.

  21. grim says:

    Don’t believe concealed carry applies to pipe bombs.

    Glad he came from Brooklyn and not Jersey.

  22. Phoenix says:

    My question – what is the financial cost to something like this?
    Attorneys, police, trials, psychologists, prison costs?
    Lost productivity from employees trying to get to work, missed deals, missed flights, missed doctor’s appointments, new people needing therapy, new lawsuits, injuries.
    Basically, the butterfly effect from all of this has to be substantial…

  23. leftwing says:

    “I will say, I didn’t realize that NJ property tax deductions were limited to $10k…”

    NJ screws you on cap gains/losses relative to the IRS as well.

    Again, the problem is this State not the Feds or flyover country.

  24. Grab them by the puzzy says:

    @BostonGlobe

    In Boston, the median African-American household net worth is just $8.
    It’s hard to ignore the dramatic contrast with the $247,500 net worth for white households.

    #BlackInBoston #GlobeSpotlight

  25. D-FENS says:

    Hipster Terrorist from Brooklyn.

  26. Libturd, AKA Dr. Howie Feltersnatch says:

    NJ might have the most corrupt, over-regulated and simply the least intelligent government in the nation. How our state, with huge advantages over most states, both in its geographic advantage and with abundant resources, could let it turn to such sh1t, is worthy of study. The amount of government waste that can be witnessed in plain sight is slightly less astonishing than the state’s populace, which is complicit and even continues to support this government largess in the name of our great public schools which are most likely a product of wealthy parents rather than skilled educators. Though I doubt anything will ever change in regards to our fawning over overpaid public workers and our undying support of senators and assemblymen that appear in the papers more for crimes rather than accomplishments. I do hope that property values, perhaps the ever popular topic of Jersey Thanksgiving conversation, will drop so much that the populace wakes up to the fact that their sh1t does indeed stink.

  27. Libturd, AKA Dr. Howie Feltersnatch says:

    “what is the financial cost to something like this?”

    What is the financial cost of the massive train delays that so many commuters suffer from every single day? What is the financial cost of the delays caused by road tolls, which need not exist whatsoever?

  28. Grab them by the puzzy says:

    Blah, blah, blah blah……

    holly cow, so much bandwidth wasted to say nothing

    “NJ might have the most…”

  29. grim says:

    Perhaps governments elsewhere are just much more efficient in their theft and graft?

  30. Daddy Deported says:

    When will everyone agree we need common sense pipe laws?

  31. 3b says:

    I was at two Christmas events this weekend. People have woke up regarding property tax cap and loss of SALT. Or at least these friends of mine have.

  32. Daddy Deported says:

    I know both those famileis, they’re doing just fine. I just paid one of them $200 two weeks ago to rake my leaves.

    In Boston, the median African-American household net worth is just $8.
    It’s hard to ignore the dramatic contrast with the $247,500 net worth for white households.

  33. Xolepa says:

    What!!! Puzzy n Boots actually made a statement using his own opinions. I’m aghast. Shocked, that is.

  34. Sima says:

    Good reading – discusses proposed tax differences in pass through earnings vs employee wages: https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/09/business/economy/tax-plans-may-give-your-co-worker-a-better-deal-than-you.html

  35. Daddy Deported says:

    Don’t 47% of people already have a 100% tax cut? More when you figure in earned income tax credit. Why is it fair that these people either get paid to work or paid not to work and it’s completely up to them?

  36. Fast Eddie says:

    Puzzy n Boots

    LMAO!!

  37. grim says:

    Want to talk about interesting repercussions?

    Imagine the explosion in the gig economy under the new tax plan.

    Discuss.

  38. ExJersey says:

    Gig economy is neither.

  39. Libturd, AKA Dr. Howie Feltersnatch says:

    Grim.,

    As I drove down the GSP at noon on Saturday, I could not help but notice the caravan of plows scraping roads with nothing more than water on them. They weren’t salting or spreading brine. As I drove south, it was literally raining. Still, more caravans of plows. No doubt, everyone of them making double time since it was Saturday. And then the gloriously unnecessary salt shelters and State Police Barracks that we have built all up and down these highways. What the fcuk? These facilities are barely more than break rooms for state troopers. Why the massiveness? Why the need to replace the existing ones.

    People need to open their eyes! These are the new salt shelters they built to replace the perfectly fine salt igloos that worked just fine for as long as I can remember.

    https://tinyurl.com/NJ-shelter

    This is what the rest of the country uses.

    https://tinyurl.com/NY-shelter

    The rest of the world puts a tarp over the salt pile and secures it with old tires and ropes.

  40. ExJersey says:

    10:48. The big barracks i’d think that’d go part and parcel with the further militarization of The PoPo.

  41. Fast Eddie says:

    In Boston, the median African-American household net worth is just $8.

    As long as they keep voting for your kind, it’ll stay that way.

  42. Sima says:

    Grim: Don’t know if white collar business contract workers (laid off former banking and pharma, medical care workers – now typically earning from $60,000 to$120,000 annually in a contract job ) will want to be “self-employed” – they would lose the all-important unemployment insurance (which lasts up to 6 months per year in NJ) which they need to survive when the contract ends. Also can’t get mortgages, bank loans, HELOCs if self-employed for less than 2 years (according to people I know).

    The biggest benefits would be to those making over $100,000 annually.

  43. Libturd, AKA Dr. Howie Feltersnatch says:

    Price of each salt shed in NJ Interchange 1 Salt Shed: 57 million! Price of NY Salt shelter: $10,000.

    You can’t make this sh1t up!

    I found the powerpoint that probably convinced our brain-dead assembly/gubner to approve.

    It’s hardly a convincing argument. Pretty much, let’s spend a few billion dollars since our sh1t is old.

    https://www.ibtta.org/sites/default/files/documents/2015/Oklahoma/Fischer_Robert.pdf

  44. Libturd, AKA Dr. Howie Feltersnatch says:

    Hey Moana,

    How were those Turkey Legs in Hawaii? I imagine you’d get a freebie.

  45. grim says:

    For whatever reason, there are fireworks in every store in NJ this past week. Target, CVS, I don’t know why.

    Wonder if that idiot bought a bunch of fireworks and attempted to make a bomb. Looking at the photos of his body, soot and burns, not quite anything that would indicate a remotely effective pipe bomb. The amount of smoke indicates that a good portion of the explosive burned, and didn’t combust.

  46. grim says:

    Black powder in a black steel pipe, he would have been ripped to shreds. Half his torso would have been splattered on the walls.

  47. D-FENS says:

    A lot of the powder probably didn’t ignite.

  48. Libturd, AKA Dr. Howie Feltersnatch says:
  49. Libturd, AKA Dr. Howie Feltersnatch says:

    On the video, it looks like a run of the mill smoke bomb went off. No sign of shrapnel.

  50. JCer says:

    Stu at least Essex county up through Paramus was well cleared both the Parkway, Rt4, and Rt 17. We went to Westchester on Saturday and both Rockland and Westchester highways/roads were snow covered and there were accidents. As much waste/graft/inefficiencies exist in the NJ State government the biggest issue is the system of progressive taxation coupled with unrealistically generous pensions and then transfer payments to schools in the urban ghettos. Stop sending money to Newark/Camden/Trenton et al and eliminate the pensions going forward and the financial situations will actually look pretty good.

  51. Libturd, AKA Dr. Howie Feltersnatch says:

    OK JCer.

    Really, at 2pm, there was no accumulation on the road whatsoever. Glad they weren’t wasting their time up north.

  52. leftwing says:

    “In Boston, the median African-American household net worth is just $8.
    It’s hard to ignore the dramatic contrast with the $247,500 net worth for white households.”

    I’m confused. Are you arguing FOR racism in places employing higher decision making skills and financial knowledge?

  53. leftwing says:

    Re: NJ waste with $57m salt sheds, plowing rainwater at double OT, etc.

    That shite is invisible to me now. It was an annual Oct/Nov rite for me to come on here for the better part of a decade and note the number of useless or redundant re-paving projects being done to spend budget. Especially since, having worked at a DPW in high school, asphalt will not hold well when laid at temperatures 50 degress and below.

    But since you guys bring up waste, for the record, on the same 14 mile back (county) road drive I have been doing three times a week over a decade they were at it again. Two of the three counties, probably 8 miles total, dropping asphalt in the dead cold. Repaving the same county roads they did four years ago at the same temperature….

    Best arguments ever for zero SALT deduction. You want $57m salt sheds, double OT public worker subsidies, a new police force and school district for every four square miles, then YOU pay for it. Not me.

  54. leftwing says:

    “Stop sending money to Newark/Camden/Trenton et al and eliminate the pensions going forward and the financial situations will actually look pretty good.”

    Silver medalist.

    “Perhaps governments elsewhere are just much more efficient in their theft and graft?”

    Bronze.

  55. grim says:

    Can’t wait to hear people blaming Trump for this terrorist attack in NYC. I haven’t turned on CNN yet though.

  56. Libturd, AKA Dr. Howie Feltersnatch says:

    I’m still not 100% convinced this was an attack!

  57. JCer says:

    leftwing don’t get me wrong I know the government overpays for the work done and then pays to re-do it after it inevitably fails. There is a huge amount of graft and corruption but the phenomenon exits pretty much everywhere and that is why government run anything is usually way less efficient than the private sector. The same sh*t happens in NY, CT, PA, etc it is not unique to Jersey. NJ has high taxes and collects a cr*p ton of money without the big drains the government is more than adequately funded at the current tax rates. With the right reforms the situation could be fixed but it will piss off a lot of people and has zero chance of happening while drop spend Murphy is running the show.

  58. JCer says:

    The places with the most money tend to have the greatest waste. NY and NYC seem to do even a poorer job than NJ. Given the resources things should run great but the MTA is a disaster, the infrastructure looks like something out of the third world, they can’t keep anything clean, can’t effectively plow the roads when it snows, etc. At least because of the size of their tax base they aren’t in financial peril. But if you look your biggest cities are in places that are horribly run IL, CA, NY and the answer is always raise taxes. I think I want to retire to a career as a manager for the MTA 300k+ salary and I can only imagine it’s a 9-5 job.

  59. Juice Box says:

    Supposedly he had another unexploded device when taken into custody.

  60. Daddy Deported says:

    He probably didn’t read the part about the end caps. Also, maybe he didn’t know that you shouldn’t use it as an ash tray.

    Wonder if that idiot bought a bunch of fireworks and attempted to make a bomb. Looking at the photos of his body, soot and burns, not quite anything that would indicate a remotely effective pipe bomb.

  61. Daddy Deported says:

    I’m beginning to think that if you live in NJ and don’t work for the state or local government…

  62. The Original NJ ExPat says:

    I said this 13 months ago and it is still true today. How permanently deranged are the Democrats/Media that they don’t recognize a losing game plan?

    The Original NJ ExPat says:
    November 8, 2017 at 4:41 pm
    I had to laugh during the campaign when anything they threw at Trump the Clinton’s had already done something 1000 times worse, yet in a comparable area (Trump U, Laureate U; Trump Foundation, Clinton Foundation; Puzzy talk, shoving a cigar up an intern’s cunt and jizzing on her dress in the oval office, etc.). Now it just continues but is now consuming the entire Democrat/Entertainment/Media empire.

  63. The Original NJ ExPat says:

    The Original NJ ExPat says:
    June 6, 2016 at 11:49 am
    It’s a little-known giant that tends to stay out of the public eye, even though its honorary chancellor is Bill Clinton and its investors include private equity giant KKR and financier George Soros.

    https://www.buzzfeed.com/mollyhensleyclancy/laureate-lawsuit

  64. The Original NJ ExPat says:

    Here’s an interesting (and gross) experience from this week. My wife, of all people, noticed there was a defective beer can in a case I bought and put in our pantry (Beck’s tall boys, now brewed in St. Louis). I occasionally get some smashed bottles inside a case of beer and occasionally a punctured can. This one looked strange as it was still mostly full of beer, but had some small punctures near the neck of the can, not it the top. I put it aside on the kitchen counter and told my wife to save it, prudent as I am. I haven’t conditioned my hair with beer since my 20’s but I thought I would try it again as my current shampoo gives me 70’s fly-away hair (Ask Lib or Nom how long my hair is ).

    Anyway, the can made it up to my shower but I kept forgetting to use it for a couple weeks. I finally used it this weekend. Since the only defects were these strange pierce marks near the neck, the flip-top was still intact. I popped it and poured it all over my hair, about half the can. I set the can down and figured I’d save it for next time. Then I noticed the smell. I checked the can and it smelled horrible!

    I then decided that I wouldn’t be using this again so, still standing in our 12 jet shower, I rinsed the can out and emptied it down the drain. I sensed that the can wasn’t fully draining, so I righted the can and then it seemed to drain again but not completely. I then noticed something hanging out of the can, the color of beer. It looked like a gel. I figured some of the beer had congealed in the bottom of the can.

    I touched it, and it didn’t feel like a gel. It felt like…fur. I still have the can, sitting outside in the recyclable container. I haven’t cut it open because I really don’t want to try to un-see a dead mouse. I think I will work up the nerve though.

    Can you imagine if what I think is in there is…and the can wasn’t pierced and my wife hadn’t noticed? I would have popped the top and taken a big swig. It’s bad enough that I probably poured mouse fluids all over my head.

  65. Libturd, AKA Dr. Howie Feltersnatch says:

    I imagine it wouldn’t have tasted much worse than placenta.

  66. chicagofinance says:

    I blame Uber….the guy was a failing cabbie……not difficult to figure out why he became disgruntled…..

    grim says:
    December 11, 2017 at 11:37 am
    Can’t wait to hear people blaming Trump for this terrorist attack in NYC. I haven’t turned on CNN yet though.

  67. The Original NJ ExPat says:

    Now I’m jonesing for a placenta bloody Mary like they serve in United First Class.

  68. Libturd, AKA Dr. Howie Feltersnatch says:

    Here’s my dumb experience of the weekend. I decided to try a new OKRA recipe as I purchased a bunch of excellent produce at the Star Bizarre (in Somerset) right next to the Pro-Tech Ponds where my kid had two games. Well it called for some dried chilies which I have since Joe my racist barber grows and dries them and gives them to me each fall. Well to test the spice, I took a little nibble and the heat was perfect. I then ripped the pepper into tiny pieces and tossed the seeds. Then nature called and I took a whiz. I washed my hands returned to the kitchen to finish the recipe. About a minute later, I feel a bit of a tingle on my c0ck. Slowly the tingle starts to grow into a full blown burning. Before you know it, I’m standing over the toilet with my underwear at my knees and my jeans at my ankles since I didn’t have enough time to get my sneakers off. My d1ck? I shoved it into a plastic cup of milk. Immediate relief. And no, I didn’t drink the milk. The dish ended up coming out perfectly.

  69. The Original NJ ExPat says:

    ^^^ You can request smooth or chunky.

  70. The Original NJ ExPat says:

    LOL Stu! That beats me making homemade gravy in my open bathrobe in my 20’s. I used to squeeze the canned tomatoes between two wooden spoons after they cooked for a while when an unplanned eruption landed on my honker!

    BTW, I wish I had a nickel for every time I said this, often in public:

    About a minute later, I feel a bit of a tingle on my c0ck.

  71. The Original NJ ExPat says:

    Any strange looks from the cat as she looked up from her saucer?

    And no, I didn’t drink the milk.

  72. Libturd, AKA Dr. Howie Feltersnatch says:

    No cats. :P

  73. leftwing says:

    LOL, had a similar experience with the fairer sex a while back that included some xhot chicken wings………

    Good to know about the milk.

  74. abeiz says:

    Grim,

    “This increased investment from western companies has helped Poland become the world’s third-largest outsourcing market after China and India — seeing off competition from Brazil and the Philippines”

    I knew there was an influx of finance backops nearshoring in Poland, but had no idea as to the scale.

  75. grim says:

    I’m still not 100% convinced this was an attack!

    New Samsung phone?

  76. Libturd, AKA Dr. Howie Feltersnatch says:

    I think he mixed pop-rocks with soda.

  77. grim says:

    I touched it, and it didn’t feel like a gel. It felt like…fur. I still have the can, sitting outside in the recyclable container. I haven’t cut it open because I really don’t want to try to un-see a dead mouse. I think I will work up the nerve though.

    Google Images for moldy SCOBY.

  78. Fast Eddie says:

    What have I learned today on this blog:

    1) Stick your pecker in a cup of milk (although some would use a larger vessel.. lol)
    2) Wash you hair with decayed mouse

  79. Libturd, AKA Dr. Howie Feltersnatch says:

    Nothing about government waste?

  80. Juice Box says:

    re: What have I learned today on this blog:

    1)wash hands before handling yer johnson

    2) Spring for bottled beer….

  81. grim says:

    Why hasn’t Menendez stepped down yet? Underage hookers in the Dominican are OK if the transaction is consensual?

  82. grim says:

    Trump appeared to be channeling JFK today, when he promised we would put a human on the moon again.

  83. The Original NJ ExPat says:

    Trump appeared to be channeling JFK today, when he promised we would put a human on the moon again for the first time.

  84. The Original NJ ExPat says:

    Nuts

    Trump appeared to be channeling JFK today, when he promised we would put a human on the moon again for the first time.

  85. The Original NJ ExPat says:

    Anybody who is FB friends with me can watch a video I posted of the reveal of what was inside the can of beer.

  86. The Original NJ ExPat says:

    Oh! Let’s go!

    Steve walks warily down the street
    With the brim pulled way down low.
    Ain’t no sound but the sound of his feet,
    Machine guns ready to go.

    Are you ready, hey, are you ready for this?
    Are you hanging on the edge of your seat?
    Out of the doorway the bullets rip
    To the sound of the beat

    Another Dem bites the dust
    Another Dem bites the dust
    And another one gone, and another one gone
    Another Dem bites the dust
    Hey, I’m gonna get you, too
    Another Dem bites the dust

    https://nypost.com/2017/12/11/ryan-lizza-booted-from-the-new-yorker-for-sex-misconduct/

  87. chicagofinance says:

    left: I assume you were on the sales end of this analysis, because I was on the go/no go end, having conducted some of these (following a board authorization) and/or been on the team that evaluated the merits……..I am not disagreeing with you, but at this point, much of what is happening is just a bunch of lemmings being sold a bill or goods by IBankers……. seriously, a stock buyback is supposed to theoretically signal the market that the stock is undervalued, or else companies with large equity programs for employees naturally have a mechanism in place to remove the leakage that creates a bigger float……

    Bottom line, there is scant business purpose to be layering on more buybacks at these levels……..it is a true indictment of the CEO and Board…..show some sac and raise the dividend if there is so much cash floating around……

    leftwing says:
    December 9, 2017 at 2:38 pm
    Smart corporate finance. With rates so low many CFOs should be deemed negligent and fired if they aren’t borrowing at today’s rates to buy back stock, at least before this year’s 29% runup in share prices lol. The math is straightforward, google it and find an investment banking buyback pitch. Easy way to increase EPS in the absence of projects that clear investment hurdles.

    “Companies are now trapped with their commitments for buybacks. It stifles investment in the company R&D and tech spending for example. That also affects compensation and benefits.”

    Very incorrect. Absolutely nothing binds a company to buy back even one share of an announced plan. Look that one up too.

  88. Juice Box says:

    Hmm pipe bomb was made of matches….

  89. The Original NJ ExPat says:

    chi – I admit to being the odd man out when comes to having board room experience on this subject, but…low and steady inflation can lead to EPS expansion way beyond what we currently see in the market. OTOH, imminent inflation or deflation instantly invalidates this premise.

    Bottom line, there is scant business purpose to be layering on more buybacks at these levels……..it is a true indictment of the CEO and Board…..show some sac and raise the dividend if there is so much cash floating around……

  90. grim says:

    Like second page of the anarchist cookbook nonsense?

    Thank god this guy was an idiot.

  91. leftwing says:

    chi, don’t disagree on the dividend if there is extra FCF. Also, I qualified the the levered buyback outside of this year’s 30% runup in share prices. And not so much IB lemmings or a bill of goods since in my experience – noted above – it only appealed to low single digit percentage of clients. Trust me, I did not look forward to the call from ECM saying “hey, let’s get in front of your client with this….”

    My post was in response to an OP who tried to argue buybacks were killing investment, wages, and goodness knows what else at corporates. The OP’s numbers were wrong, there was not ‘trillions’ of note issuance, just a trillion and a lot of that was companies taking advantage of LT paper to refi at sub 4% rates even with a 30 year term, not for buybacks, as I’m sure you’re aware.

    Most importantly, as you also know, the vast majority of issuance was IG. The OP concept that debt if it was taken for buybacks was ‘choking out’ investment is just not valid. That was my point. And that absolutely nothing obligates a company authorizing a buyback and taking down debt to spend for even one share.

    I never liked these transactions for a variety of reasons either (mostly since there was very little comp in it for the coverage group lol). They can work for some clients, though.

  92. chicagofinance says:

    left: I hated taking calls from those fcukers trying to tender for bullet bonds….. WTF? I don’t give a sh!t that you fellated the CEO about EPS future quarter benefit from a tax shield, by definition your POS idea is -NPV……. Tax Shield = LOSSES written off…..

    the Salomon guy was my favorite thought, he was the best….cracked me up……

  93. chicagofinance says:

    Steve Cheeseman? great name

  94. The Original NJ ExPat says:

    My wife used to manage a retail Weight Watchers location in Hasbrouck Heights when we lived in NJ. There was this guy named Sam who was a customer but also used to hit on her. He said the business he was in was “transportation”. One weekend we saw him at Corrado’s on Main Ave (Clifton). He was working there slicing cheese and seemed a little embarrassed that my wife noticed him. From then on we would refer to him as Sam the Cheese Man.

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