From the NYT:
2018: A Tough Year for First-Time Buyers
Dr. Davis and brokers will likely tell you that what your decision should come down to is not so much whether you will make money off your home, or how much of a tax break you will or won’t get, but where you want to be — and for how long.
“A first-time home buyer is taking a bet on a metro area, and the first thing I’d ask the first-time home buyer is: Are you willing to commit to this metro area and this school district for the next 10 years,” Dr. Davis said, assuming you have or plan to have children. If the answer is yes, he added, “they shouldn’t really worry about whether prices are three percent higher than they should be.”
That is what pushed Cornelius Graubner and Lucian Leung-Graubner, who rent in Williamsburg, to start looking at homes in areas within an hour’s commute of New York City. “Thinking about long term, we want a place that we can really stretch and grow,” said Ms. Leung-Graubner, 32, a program manager at a community-based organization in adult education. She means that in a very real sense of the word: She wants a “garden in my backyard beyond growing little herbs.”
Mr. Graubner grew up in rural Germany; Ms. Leung-Graubner in Jackson Heights. While they are factoring property taxes and potentially higher interest rates into their decision — Mr. Graubner, 39, a product manager for a risk analytics company, has it all modeled on a spreadsheet — their goal to have more space, in a more permanent spot, in a community they like is more important.
“We’ve always said we wouldn’t mind waking up in the morning and not seeing the neighbor first thing,” Mr. Graubner said.
Good Morning New Jersey
‘morning Mike.
Right move.
The Original NJ ExPat says:
March 22, 2018 at 4:04 pm
Not sure if I’m right on this one, but I sold a large recent position in TLT for a 1.25 point profit. I even received a dividend in between opening and closing the position.
3b
Cling wrap works great, I use it to protect my perm from humidity
Yes, do you really want to raise your family in a dorm room?
“Dr. Davis and brokers will likely tell you that what your decision should come down to is not so much whether you will make money off your home, or how much of a tax break you will or won’t get, but where you want to be — and for how long.”
Do you really want to raise your family on a highway?
Yes, do you really want to raise your family in a dorm room?
No, and who would? Do they build houses on highways in northern nj?
The Original NJ ExPat says:
March 23, 2018 at 7:59 am
Do you really want to raise your family on a highway?
Went fishing last evening. Clear skies with temps in the low 70s. Was trying out the action on a topwater I picked up over the weekend. Didn’t catch anything but got a few strikes from bass. Was surprised since the water is probably still too cold for topwater for another week or two
And look at these first time home buyers ages. She is 32 and he is almost 40. Going to take a long time to get that massive move of millennial s to the suburbs that some are expecting.
Libturd
You would have been proud of me. I was in Walmart checking out it’s clearance section and found lots of fishing lures and hooks marked down 20-50% off. Scanned a few items and discovered everything was coming up 75% off the clearance price. I bought every bass hook, 10 jigs, every jighead and pack of fishing line in clearance even found a $7 crank bait for $1. . For $70 I got about $400 worth of stuff at Walmart regular prices. Would have been around $500 at a big name sporting good store. Most was name brand stuff too.
And your friend in Hoboken youngish at 35 proves my point. I never said none of the millenials would move to the suburbs I said there will not be a massive move of millennial s to the suburbs and the ones that do will go to urban areas like Montclair.
Does anyone else find it comical that a wh0re who sleeps with married men wants to make amends and then sells her story to a national(fake) news network to do it? Really crdible story.
If someone is dumb enough to buy one there will always be someone smart enough to build one.
No, and who would? Do they build houses on highways in northern nj?
Mr. Graubner does not know that the Mrs. is putting the pill into the the toilet each night. When women say “a place to grow and sttretch” and “I want a backyard for a garden”, you best get the car seats ready. She is not messing around. He better know by 40 if wants kids. They are coming.
Someboday at corporate figured if they’re coming for the guns now, it’s just a matter of time before they come for the fishing equipment next.
You would have been proud of me. I was in Walmart checking out it’s clearance section and found lots of fishing lures and hooks marked down 20-50% off. Scanned a few items and discovered everything was coming up 75% off the clearance price. I bought every bass hook, 10 jigs, every jighead and pack of fishing line in clearance even found a $7 crank bait for $1. . For $70 I got about $400 worth of stuff at Walmart regular prices. Would have been around $500 at a big name sporting good store. Most was name brand stuff too.
Divorce is strongly correlated to highway house purchases.
Nice work HMB. But now you gotta catch some fish. I haven’t fresh water fished in about 30 years. Back when I did it, spoons were all the rage. I also had a bunch of fake flies. My punk rock sister used to wear them as earrings in the early 80s.
Wife wants safety for children, husband wants wage inflation…easy math from there.
Divorce is strongly correlated to highway house purchases.
@realDonaldTrump
I am considering a VETO of the Omnibus Spending Bill based on the fact that the 800,000 plus DACA recipients have been totally abandoned by the Democrats (not even mentioned in Bill) and the BORDER WALL, which is desperately needed for our National Defense, is not fully funded.
Expat
YouTube is already doing that. It is de monetizing every video that has guns and hunting in it. The youtubers who are 90% fishing 10% hunting or target shooting think all fishing is next. But some of those outdoor youtubers make a lot more money from their own sponsors and merchandising so the ad revenue from YouTube isn’t as important to them.
Expat,
How was it raising kids in a dorm room?
Btw, a 1 mile highway runs through Wayne? Care to explain some more? And a highway is 35 mph?
Democrat party checked which way the wind was blowing and turned their backs on DACAs.
I was thinking about it, nj has strong gun laws and no shootings have happened in this state. I prob just jinxed it.
Libturd
Caught me two large mouth bass on trout worms last week. My kid caught a bluegill last night. Bass are preseason now and starting to move into the shallows. Planning on going bass fishing this weekend. In Texas you are allowed to catch presspawn bass. It is illegal in jersey and Pennsylvania to target bass during the spawn season.
I got so much good stuff on clearance I can throw some cash at the higher end lures now.
I hope they are worth it. When I was younger, there was little correlation between lure price and effectiveness.
Guess what franchise just opened up in our backyard (Bloomfield, edge of Glen Ridge and Montclair)?
Bury the Hatchet.
https://burythehatchet.com/
What does this say about our society?
And there are 6 of them now.
This was our childhood hangout. Fished, skated, swam and camped there. Even got stranded on an island there once and had to be rescued by a fire department. It was a very “Stand By Me-ish” story. Man, how times have changed.
Such an easy and fun toy to wind up.
Btw, a 1 mile highway runs through Wayne? Care to explain some more? And a highway is 35 mph?
2017 population stats out for counties. In NJ, Hudson, Bergen, and Ocean growing fastest.
Atlantic, Cape May, Cumberland, Monmouth, Salem, Sussex, Warren all shrinking.
We had some discussion on the ETrade commercials a while back. Generally agreed they were annoying but had a gem or two…”The Dumbest Kid in HS Buys a Boat”…
Need to check out “I’m 85 and I wanna Go Home”….Probably saw it 30+ times, still LMAO each time.
….dropping six beats they call me DJ Nana………
They’re all moving to Wayne.
Atlantic, Cape May, Cumberland, Monmouth, Salem, Sussex, Warren all shrinking.
DJ Nana. That’s Pumps grandmother.
Need to check out “I’m 85 and I wanna Go Home”….Probably saw it 30+ times, still LMAO each time.
Give it some time. Yes, new generations are starting families much later due to a host of issues that have impacted their generation.
3b says:
March 23, 2018 at 8:41 am
And look at these first time home buyers ages. She is 32 and he is almost 40. Going to take a long time to get that massive move of millennial s to the suburbs that some are expecting.
Which pop stats? ACS?
It’s been nearly 20 years for my age cohort. Kids are near grown and we still live in the city, as do all of our friends. Of course I had a car stereo when people were still listening to AM.
Give it some time. Yes, new generations are starting families much later due to a host of issues that have impacted their generation.
Which means they will be coming to the suburbs those that do come much later and they will want more urban walkable suburbs like Montclair not the traditional strip mall drive everywhere suburb. And they won’t need a big Mc mansion either. And many appear to be staying in the urban areas. I see it everyday in lower Manhattan Jersey city and Harrison. Babies to high school age kids.
Median age in Wayne is 43.2. Pretty soon they’ll only need a one room schoolhouse.
Suburbs – where people who already live there wait to die.
http://www.nj.com/data/2018/03/youngest_towns_nj_oldest_towns_nj_real_estate_in_nj.html
For me higher end is $5-$10. We got some rapala and yo-zuri lures last week. They are supposed to be very good.
I bought a bunch of stuff from Johnson fishing around Christmas last year. Some of their patterns were on sale for 75% off so I loaded up and bought the ones on sale
Also splurged and bought a few lures from another place that look like bats and ducklings. They are usually $20-$25 and I got them for $8-$9
I try to only buy fishing stuff on sale. So easy to get a snag or fray a line and lose the lure.
Hebrew national hotdogs on a #6 or 8 hook work great for sunfish and small bass in the summer. The cheap pork and chicken hot dogs are nowhere near as effective. Maybe Texas fish keep kosher.
Atlantic, Cape May, Cumberland, Monmouth, Salem, Sussex, Warren all shrinking.
Monmouth County is one of the prettiest in the state, from the beaches inland. I can’t figure how Monmouth is shrinking.
Data is from US Census but isn’t from ACS.
Monmouth is shrinking due to weak local economy, difficult commute to Manhattan, and lack of immigration.
Kids leave, parents stay.
Monmouth County is one of the prettiest in the state, from the beaches inland. I can’t figure how Monmouth is shrinking.
ExPat.
You may have hit on something a few days ago. As I drove through JC a couple of weeks ago, I was thinking about this. With the onset of glass (smart phones), living in urban areas makes more sense. Though downtown JC is completely gentrified, I didn’t see a single soul outside on a Sunday afternoon until I got near Hamilton Park/Square. There, there were at least one hundred families in the tiny square. As long as kids don’t need to play outside (thank you Fortnight, Clash Royale, etc.), then why not live close to work and take advantage of mass transportation. Most families can get away with one car too. Why plant a garden when you can go to a farmer’s market. Space? You take it away from the kitchen and dining room since you won’t be entertaining anyway since no one can come to visit at holidays since there is no place to park and take out is cheap and plentiful. It does make sense for some, and will only get more common as the offspring of the current generation doesn’t know of anything else.
My great grandparents, and their children lived in tenements. It took till the third generation to move out to Lynbrook (long Island). And the property in that house had to be 1/5th of an acre (but it had a front and backyard). I wouldn’t be surprised at all to see the burbs sort of frozen at their current state.
Now urban living is not for me. I’m too much of an outside lover. Smoking meats, growing a garden, woodworking in the garage. But I do see less and less people with similar interests. Heck, the next generation is really good at one thing. Apps!
You are basically describing what most of northeast nj is. Driving 5 min to go shopping is a problem? True suburbs that you speak of take a 20 min drive to the nearest store. That applies almost nowhere in northeast nj.
3b says:
March 23, 2018 at 9:44 am
Which means they will be coming to the suburbs those that do come much later and they will want more urban walkable suburbs like Montclair not the traditional strip mall drive everywhere suburb. And they won’t need a big Mc mansion either. And many appear to be staying in the urban areas. I see it everyday in lower Manhattan Jersey city and Harrison. Babies to high school age kids.
Give it some time. Yes, new generations are starting families much later due to a host of issues that have impacted their generation.
The people waiting for age 40 to have kids are too preoccupied with craft breweries and traveling to be bothered by having kids. I believe there is a biological reason that we are able to stay up all night in our 20s. Most likely, to tend to our newborns. Instead, they spend it taking selfies until 5 am.
Lib with 2 income families now the norm not the exception I don’t people will want to do the 1. 5 hr or more commute to the suburbs than have to pick up the child from day care. Dinner bath homework etc than up again the next day. And what’s the point if for many it’s one and done. I have a 40 minute train ride to Hoboken than switch for path than walk to office. I also walk to the train. I leave my house at 7:00 I am at my desk by 8:20 assuming no delays. Coming home leave at 5:00 home by 6:20. Now throw in 2 people doing this plus picking up from day care. Dinner bath homework etc. It is a tough way to live in my opinion.
If you think about it, sleep deprivation never mattered much to anyone in their 20s. Go out, in bed by 4 am, back at work at 8:30. No problem. By the time you are in your mid 30s, it’s not even possible more 95% of the population. When people have their first kid at 35, they are blown away by the amount of sleep deprivation and how it negatively affects everything they do. Meanwhile, I’m pretty sure if I had my kids at age 23, I would have brushed off the sleep deprivation like it was nothing.
Lib with 2 income families now the norm not the exception I don’t people will want to do the 1. 5 hr or more commute to the suburbs than have to pick up the child from day care. Dinner bath homework etc than up again the next day. And what’s the point if for many it’s one and done. I have a 40 minute train ride to Hoboken than switch for path than walk to office. I also walk to the train. I leave my house at 7:00 I am at my desk by 8:20 assuming no delays. Coming home leave at 5:00 home by 6:20. Now throw in 2 people doing this plus picking up from day care. Dinner bath homework etc. It is a tough way to live in my opinion.
I don’t get the 2 income couples that both get home from work at 6:30, eat or bring home prepared food from wegmans, put their kids to sleep, and repeat. The family never sees each other. If I were pressed with that option, I’d prefer to be a single income household living in a much cheaper suburb. Family is more important.
You can walk to 7/11 dunk in donuts and some nail salons in my town that’s it. Everywhere else is a drive. It’s not what these millennial s are looking for.
Not everyone loves living on top of people. Who wants to share everything? That’s what city life does. Nice day at the park, good luck finding a spot to relax in the park. Want to host a family/friend event at your home? Forget about it, you have to rent out a space at a local bar or restaurant to keep it private. F that. Let your kids go play in the yard, good luck!
I like taking care of my lawn/yard. I like driving my car. My commute is refreshing. Put on some music, relax, and enjoy the ride. I like going outside in my yard and having complete privacy.
Just like suburbs are not for everyone, the same applies to cities. I don’t mind working and playing in the city, but I need a break from it. Do not want to raise my family in that type of environment. Just not for me.
The Original NJ ExPat says:
March 23, 2018 at 9:41 am
It’s been nearly 20 years for my age cohort. Kids are near grown and we still live in the city, as do all of our friends. Of course I had a car stereo when people were still listening to AM.
Blue good point. The risk is that the single income family looses their job than what. Let’s say the mom is out of work for 5 years or more than she has to try to get back in the work force, not easy. Much more economic insecurity today in my opinion than 25 or 30 years ago.
Lots of these apartment complex s today have party rooms that are available as well as picnic areas bbq s etc.
HMB,
“Hebrew national hotdogs/Maybe Texas fish keep kosher.”
Here’s a funny story. Down at the Duhernal Dam, there were always these gargantuan Carp. I mean absolutely huge 40 pounders probably. We spent forever trying to catch them to no avail. There were huge channel cats (and pretty scary sized Snapper Turtles) we would often fish for and eat in the basin, but those carp seemed like they would forever elude us. Well to catch the catfish, we almost always melted our own cheeseballs and bacon concoction which worked quite beautifully. One day, we ran out of bacon so my brother chopped up some chicken Franks and those seemed to work even better. In our continued experimenting, we tried straight ball park franks and these were like mana to the catfish and unfortunately to the turtles too, but those carp wouldn’t touch it. We weren’t supposed to use the Hebrew National dogs since those were the only ones that my dad would eat and they were pretty expensive, but we used them one day anyway. The catfish didn’t seem to like all beef hotdogs. Lo and behold, the carp actually bit.
Most don’t eat carp in this country, but Jews still use some carp in gefilte fish, a traditional Passover food. So we figured, it only made sense that they would only answer to the Higher Authority.
We of course released the bad boy, but my brother has some pretty incredible pictures and for a short time, was the hero of Duhernal. Sadly, we never caught another one so our theory ended up being a fluke. But man, that fish was huge! We caught a couple of 15″ cats too. The bass there are plentiful, but too small. Lots of pike and pickerel.
https://tinyurl.com/duhernal-dam
Backyards are great we have had some epic family get togethers over the years. But if today both parents are working the kid or kids are in day care than after school care until 6 or 6 30 than backyards are empty all week. My wife is amazed when on a beautiful day she might be in the mall or we are both in Costco and the parents and kids are there too. They should be outside not farting around in the mall.
Lib – We know several families, likes us, who stayed in Boston but didn’t move to a house until the kids were teenage/near teenage. We happen to be the only ones who decided to rent after owning, but I can see that as a possible trend too. Buy a small place, make it work until the kids are bigger, then sell the place for a huge profit and use that to rent.
When I was fresh out of college I noticed an interesting demographic preference. Working at very large aerospace firm in Passaic County we hired hundreds of engineers right out of college every year, which was very cool because it was like a continuation of college, with a new “class” being hired every year. We also had a large percentage of each “class” commuting in from the 5 boros. It seemed to me that every kid who grew up in an apartment wanted to buy their own SFH but all the kids who grew up in the suburbs, like me, wanted nothing but condos. I think we spent so much time cutting grass, painting, helping our Dads with all kinds of outdoor chores that we only wanted the kind of living that we could manage from our checkbooks.
While my wife and I did rent a house for one year in Long Island circa 1997, other than that this is the first time I’ve lived in a SFH since before college. I love it, especially the outdoor grilling at will and being able to crank up electric guitar and also the driveway (haven’t had offstreet parking since 2002), but I had not been missing it a bit through my 20’s, 30’s, 40’s and early 50’s. We got by with one car at home (have two more fun cars in a rented garage elsewhere) from 2002-2011, did two cars from 2011-2013, and one everyday car again since then. We have only four more years that we have to stay in Boston, so who knows what we’ll do then. Maybe a shore house?
Now urban living is not for me. I’m too much of an outside lover. Smoking meats, growing a garden, woodworking in the garage. But I do see less and less people with similar interests. Heck, the next generation is really good at one thing. Apps!
Make your choice in life. Have a family day everyday and have no money, or save family days for the weekend, and have child focused on school and other activities during the week. Nature of the beast.
Btw, my wife enjoys working. It gives her purpose. She does not want to sit home. She is a driven individual. It’s all on the individual. Not many people can just sit home everyday and only focus on family.
“I don’t get the 2 income couples that both get home from work at 6:30, eat or bring home prepared food from wegmans, put their kids to sleep, and repeat. The family never sees each other. If I were pressed with that option, I’d prefer to be a single income household living in a much cheaper suburb. Family is more important.”
“Maybe a shore house?”
Pura Vida baby. I’ll have you down.
So blame society for forcing families to require two working parents to have a decent life. Maybe if they payed workers more instead of taking so much profit, this would not be a problem.
3b says:
March 23, 2018 at 10:22 am
Backyards are great we have had some epic family get togethers over the years. But if today both parents are working the kid or kids are in day care than after school care until 6 or 6 30 than backyards are empty all week. My wife is amazed when on a beautiful day she might be in the mall or we are both in Costco and the parents and kids are there too. They should be outside not farting around in the mall.
“Maybe if they”
Who is this “they,” you speak of?
THEY is US, Pumps!
When you finally see this, it will be a great revelation.
Everytime you vote for a Dem or Repub. You are supporting the current plan of making the income gap larger. Defend HRC, yup, you are supporting it. Same with Trump or really any of them. It’s all one big cartel of rich people and those who would sell their soul to join them.
Pumps true. And maybe if people like you and realtors and others stopped the b.s. “of oh this is the way it should be and high prices and taxes are perfectly fine And it’s the price you pay to live in this very special area and all the rest.
Ex sfh living is great. But the cost that this generation has to pay to get it is not. When I was in my 20s we were all able to buy houses. I am not saying it was easy at first but it was doable. We did not have to pay day care. When I got home we had dinner as a family we could play in the backyard etc in the evening. There was a real quality of life. We had pizza night at the town pool Thursday’s in the summer. Pool stayed opened until 9:00. You used to have to wait 5 years for full time membership and when you got it you knew you were now officially part of the town. Now the pool club is struggling for members. Nobody home and no new families with kid’s or why pay the membership when nobody is home. It would be nice if this generation had that same opportunity if they wanted it but they don’t. I think it’s sad.
Libturd
Cool story on the carp. I have seen carp but never caught one. Went trout fishing a few times this year and didn’t catch any.
City living is just like every other topic to Pumps. Zero education on the subject, lots of claimed expertise. At your next class reunion why don’t you ask your classmates how many of them…oh…that’s right. I forgot.
Hahahahahahahahahahahaahhaahahaha
Not everyone loves living on top of people. Who wants to share everything? That’s what city life does. Nice day at the park, good luck finding a spot to relax in the park. Want to host a family/friend event at your home? Forget about it, you have to rent out a space at a local bar or restaurant to keep it private. F that. Let your kids go play in the yard, good luck!
Most Dual income households likely require both incomes. If one loses their job then what? Do you really think they could survive on one salary anyway?
3b says:
March 23, 2018 at 10:14 am
Blue good point. The risk is that the single income family looses their job than what. Let’s say the mom is out of work for 5 years or more than she has to try to get back in the work force, not easy. Much more economic insecurity today in my opinion than 25 or 30 years ago.
Carp are impossible! Which might explain why they get so big?
Dfens that is exactly my point. I believe it is suicide today not to have that second income in the event one gets laid off much more economic insecurity today in my opinion. Plus if you want the house in the suburbs today you have no choice you need that second income 25 years ago that was not the case.
We invented them.
https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/story-first-mass-murder-us-history-180956927/
The Great Pumpkin says:
March 23, 2018 at 9:16 am
I was thinking about it, nj has strong gun laws and no shootings have happened in this state. I prob just jinxed it.
There is a marina in Grand Prairie that has hundreds of massive carp. You can buy fish food there to toss at the carp and the whole surface just becomes massive carp trying to inhale the pellets or bread that people toss.
The Japanese gardens in Fort Worth have huge koi in their ponds that also swarm to the surface for those fish food pellets. Amazing to watch them.
10:43 One of my wife’s favorite Summer hangouts is the local pool. She works in a public school, she’s off whenever our kids are off. Her and her friends bring all of the kids and they set up shop on the shady side. Nice pool, completely free. From our old place she could walk, but never does because they have “resident sticker” parking right there, and being residents we have a sticker. Also, our old place overlooks Chestnut Hill reservoir, so even though our place was very small, we always had a beautiful shaded “back yard” for barbecuing, etc. (BBQ and picnic table belonged to the condo association). We didn’t really give up anything except square footage for our 15 years of “true” city living. The other thing is we never missed a moment of our kids when they were growing up. Now that we have a house the kids grab their iDevices and run to some room of the house where parents aren’t. It is nice that they can have many of their friends over for sleepovers (both inside and in our big tent I set up for them out back). The nice thing about technically still being in the city of Boston is that the kids can take public transportation everywhere themselves for free. That’s how they get back and forth from school too, so we really don’t have to drive them anywhere.
It is really, really, great, though, to have my own grill and flood lights just steps away from the kitchen now. Also, great to have just a single step up from our driveway to the kitchen-adjacent mudroom when it comes to grocery shopping. I mentioned last Summer the joys of Central A/C. Never had it before, don’t think I’ll ever be without it again.
One of the better days reading your comments guys :)
Expat, you made a great point about the way one generation tends to trend in the opposite lifestyle of their parents. Kids from suburbs want condos, kids from apartments/condos want sfh. I think that sort of thing will continue anyway. It almost seemed evident in your friends being the most liberal of your group with a staunch conservative son.
Just the way kids and parents turn out a lot of times.
Ex…that was a good one.
The two-income thing is a REAL issue. We just went a little over a year on a single income which spent down our rainy day fund. Now we choose to live in an affluent community. We could have easily moved 10 miles in nearly any direction and could made it on my salary alone. But the schools and town services (and charity) most likely wouldn’t have been the same.
Which begs the question. “What is making it?”
When I was single, I always shared a rental with no less than two other roommates. I recall paying rent from $375 up to about $750 in both NJ and CA. I could afford a car, pretty much had the cash to catch a sporting event or concert about once a week and still managed to sock away about 15% into my 401K. Would you say I was making it?
I got married, rent went up to about $1,000 month, but the second income came into play. So both of us were still able to save nicely. And then came the first kid.
I would argue that how much you spend on your kid is the difference between making it and not making it. I’ve always heard the average cost per year for a kid is between 15 and 20K. I wholly disagree. Of course, I didn’t buy baby monitors with video monitors and breathing detectors. I also did not buy a butt-wipe warmer, which was all the rage at the time. Crib? Used. Car seat? Hand me down. We sprang for the Bugaboo, but only because we were able to sell it for $150 less than we purchased it for. We also rarely used baby sitters. I mean like four times a year rarely. Heck, our biggest expense was vacations and even them we took mainly on credit card points.
I suppose, the point I’m trying to make is that there is a whole spectrum of “making it.” Even without Gator’s income, we could still make it. But we would not be keeping up with the Joneses. Heck, we never strived to. Now it’s just easier.
Ex you have the best of both worlds city living but now with a house as well. The suburbs don’t offer that. If we were 4o today and having one child and done we would not but a house in the suburbs, what’s the point? If both spouse’s are working today and the kids are in day care and or after school care what is the point? You can stay in the city hopefully one spouse gets home at a reasonable time and have an overall better quality of life than schlepping back and forth to the suburbs.
Thanks Lib. Ever since you told me the merits of CR I rarely go a day without thinking about it. I was actually thinking about CR when I wrote “shore house”.
“Maybe a shore house?”
Pura Vida baby. I’ll have you down.
Both of my daughters have Spanish as their choice at Boston Latin. Latin class is mandatory, but 4 years of another foreign language is also mandatory. Also, you only get one chance at picking your non-Latin foreign language. As soon as you choose it you are automatically in for 4 years of it.
Lib those are good points as well and there are those who will always want to keep up with the Jones.
From what I’ve been reading, you need to be a bit outdoorsy to really appreciate living in CR. You also need patience. Things move slowly and power outages are common. But if you can deal with a lifestyle where you can pretty much afford to pay for anything you could ever want and not run out of money, it’s a great gig.
You know what would be pretty funny? If our whole gang of fruitcakes chose to retire down there together. Well, besides Pumps and Moana. Could you imagine Nom, Grim, ExPat, 3B, Joyce, Lurks, D-Fens, Fab, Blue Ribbon, Gary and ChiFi. All just relaxing on an empty beach under a giant palapa while a local runs us Imperials and casados. Just shooting the sh1t and not having a care in life. Real estate, politics, and your own social security don’t really matter any more do they? Just who serves next at the volleyball field.
You’re being dramatic. My wife stays home with the kids. Nothing wrong with that.
3b says:
March 23, 2018 at 10:50 am
Dfens that is exactly my point. I believe it is suicide today not to have that second income in the event one gets laid off much more economic insecurity today in my opinion. Plus if you want the house in the suburbs today you have no choice you need that second income 25 years ago that was not the case.
Friggin’ paradise.
Lib It would be fun!! And enjoyable! The conversations would go on through the wee hours and then sleep until 2:00 the next day!!
Didn’t pumpy used to rail about people who lived for money and now he espouses it? What an absolute moron.
Our kids were born in 2002 and 2004. I’ve always been a quality of life guy.
2002 – 2006 – I stayed home and didn’t work. It’s just happenstance it worked out that way. I lost my job while my wife was out on maternity leave. She was going to go back and quit her job and we were going to buy a condo near my work, in fact I was due to sign the contract the day after I lost my job. We had a 40% down payment saved up. Instead we bought a place in Boston walking distance from her job in Boston. Her job was strictly 9-5, but I would take the kid(s) down to have lunch with her in the stroller.
2005 – My wife lost her job. We were still financially in good enough shape that I still didn’t go back to work. We spent an entire year with no jobs, just enjoyed the last year before our oldest started school at age 3.
2006-2008 – I worked from home. So from 2002-2008 our kids at least one parent home full-time and two parents home from 2006-2008.
2008-2016 – wife home full time, I worked 9-5 close by. I’ve never taken a business trip or been away from home because of business.
2016-present – Wife works part time at a school, always off when the kids are. I work from home again, so it’s never a problem one of our girls needs to stay home sick or taken to the doctor, dentist, etc.
I think the reason our kids run away from us at home in the big house now is because they’ve never had that opportunity before. They’ve been under the watch of full-time parents their entire lives.
I’m even entertaining the idea of taking a job that actually requires travel now, and I’ll do it guilt-free.
You can stay in the city hopefully one spouse gets home at a reasonable time and have an overall better quality of life than schlepping back and forth to the suburbs.
D fens I think you are missing my point. My wife stayed home too while my guys were young. And I am all for it at least through school age whether it’s the mother or father that does it. However I think the risk is far greater today with a single income than it was in my day. And I don’t know if I would advise my own kids to do it now.
I don’t even need to go to the office. Most tech jobs you can work from home. Most server hardware is going away and being replaced by cloud services.
^^^correction – two parents home from 2005-2008.
I’ve easily foregone at least a million dollars in lost earnings over my life. I still wouldn’t do it any other way. You can’t buy back your kids pre-school years when they are 16.
Correct.
I don’t even need to go to the office. Most tech jobs you can work from home. Most server hardware is going away and being replaced by cloud services.
I was thinking about it, nj has strong gun laws and no shootings have happened in this state. I prob just jinxed it.
Newark, Camden, and Trenton would disagree
also, we stopped a kid plotting a massacre in Bridgewater a few years back
D-Fens,
This is true. I work remotely 3 days a week and I can work whatever hours I want over three shifts. This should make a huge dent in the nanny cost when Gator returns to work. Unfortunately, finding a good part time nanny is going to be the tricky part. But the cloud based infrastructure is fully in place and working relatively well. This needs to be factored into the need for dual income argument. Family time is important. I choose to wake up every morning with my older son to eat breakfast with him and to drive him to school. It’s also great to be home when he is doing his homework after school. In exchange, I’m plugged in from 8am to 7pm every day if not longer. But I’m probably not working, working for much more than 8 hours.
Maybe on rainy days we could let Pumps Skype in from his highway house, just for fun!
Lib It would be fun!! And enjoyable! The conversations would go on through the wee hours and then sleep until 2:00 the next day!!
Ex we gave up a huge amount of income over the years that my wife was home. And since she returned full time she rose quickly. Its nice having that second income now especially after paying in full our kids college tuitions. We don’t regret it one but our kids still talk about all the fun things we did when they were little. I don’t criticize anyone s choices as for both spouses working or not. I do criticize the fact that many do not have that choice today like we did.
Do you realize the suburbs are the cheap alternative to the city? Do you know how much it costs to live in good locations? For me, the city is not really an option when raising a family. Everything costs so much money. You will still be working late as someone has to pay the high bills that come with living in the city. Don’t get me wrong, you can make city living affordable by living in buildings run by slum lords, but no thanks. I can save a ton of money too by living in slum locations in the burbs, but choose not to for obvious reasons.
3b says:
March 23, 2018 at 11:10 am
Ex you have the best of both worlds city living but now with a house as well. The suburbs don’t offer that. If we were 4o today and having one child and done we would not but a house in the suburbs, what’s the point? If both spouse’s are working today and the kids are in day care and or after school care what is the point? You can stay in the city hopefully one spouse gets home at a reasonable time and have an overall better quality of life than schlepping back and forth to the suburbs.
Lib I work remotely as well 2 days a week. It’s nice although I end up working more it’s nice not having the schlep home.
Yep.
I probably wasn’t alive in “your day”…so I don’t know it any other way.
When I do go to the office…which is still most of the time…I’m gone before the sun comes up. But my wife and I always make a point to make dinner together and sit together with our kids at dinner time.
We choose to do this…and frankly so can everyone else.
Growing up I watched my father work in manhattan, then drive a truck, then start his own business, then sell the business and go to work for a Bank. He then retired comfortably in Florida. Losing your job sucks but it’s not the end of the world.
3b says:
March 23, 2018 at 11:37 am
D fens I think you are missing my point. My wife stayed home too while my guys were young. And I am all for it at least through school age whether it’s the mother or father that does it. However I think the risk is far greater today with a single income than it was in my day. And I don’t know if I would advise my own kids to do it now.
Dfens You probably were alive. I am not as old as you might think. I am referring back to the mid to late 80s when we got jobs and married and kids and houses.
By “a family” do you mean “a child”?
“For me, the city is not really an option when raising a family.”
Lib – reminds me of the best and worst from my work life. About 4 years ago, when my oldest daughter started at Boston Latin, she used to take a “special” bus, it’s actually called a supplementary bus. Since most kids use public transportation to get to school they have some city buses that look like regular buses, but they show up empty at a particular stop where Boston Latin kids are waiting. Even though it’s a “regular” bus stop, they only allow students on that bus. It then becomes a regular bus and other passengers can get on, but I guess the idea is it gives the kids both a seat and safety in numbers. Anyway, this “special” bus left from about a mile from our old condo at 6:40AM every day. Since it was on the way to my work, I would drive my daughter to the stop, leaving at 6:25AM each day and then I would be at my desk a little before 7AM. It was a great couple years, I had never had such routine in my life before. The plus side is I would leave work about 3:10PM every day, leaving for home every day in DAYLIGHT! It was a great feeling to be done with work (unless an emergency popped up) and be home with no traffic and in DAYLIGHT! After the first two years, both of my daughters went to school together and they took the train from right outside our front door. In the new place they take the bus from the end of our block, to the train, then to another bus unless my wife drives them to another one of those “special” buses about a mile from here in our new neighborhood. I just can’t tell you how great it was to get home without traffic and in daylight every day (office was just outside of Boston, 9 miles from our doorstep).
The worst part was when I actually did work full-time from home. I worked with 5 other team members, all of us worked from home and we provided database services to 50 global companies. I never worked so many 60-70 hour weeks! I even had four weeks vacation and it still sucked! When I got back to an office in late 2007 (after not having worked in an office for almost 5 full years), it seemed like the best thing ever. Adults to talk to. People who ask you to go to lunch (and actually remind you to take lunch!). Coffee breaks. The best part of being back in an office after such a long layoff was when I would close and lock my office door as I was leaving, knowing I wasn’t going to do any more work until the following day.
Family time is important. I choose to wake up every morning with my older son to eat breakfast with him and to drive him to school. It’s also great to be home when he is doing his homework after school. In exchange, I’m plugged in from 8am to 7pm every day if not longer. But I’m probably not working, working for much more than 8 hours.
My dad had a factory in Williamsburg. We lived in East Brunswick.
Every day (sometimes 6 days per week) he would wake up at 5:30am and be on the road by 5:45am. At 6:10am, he would stop in a deli to get a coffee and a buttered roll and would pick up his business partner in Perth Amboy before crossing the Outerbridge. On a good day, he’d pull into the office around 7:15am. He would leave the factory around 4pm. On a good day, he’d be home at 5:30, but frequently 6pm as well. The entire family wouldn’t eat dinner until he got home. And remember, we were a family of nine. Dinner time was sharing time. We wouldn’t have it any other way. I wouldn’t still.
Pumps There you go again. Making broad assumptions and trying to convince me you are right and I am wrong. There is no right or wrong just what the realities are today.
But if both work in the city and one or both work late they still have to get to daycare whether it’s in the city and I see that as well or whether they have to get home to the suburbs and get to daycare in time. If both work in the city and work until 630 or 7:00 then they have the 1.5 hour commute or more home. They both have to pay path and monthly train ticket plus parking they will need at least one car perhaps two. And so on. There is no middle ground with you it’s your choice is the suburbs or live in a slum. It’s a pity you cat have an intelligent conversation without it always referencing back to your choices and decisions. So in your mind were you to acknowledge that perhaps I and others could be right and that city living is becoming a viable choice for many than that in turn means your house may in the future not be worth more or even less than you paid for it. That’s how you appear to view the world.
Working remotely is nice one or two days a week, but I do not ever want to work at home all week. I don’t want my home becoming my place of work. Feel like it would ruin that work/life balance, and make me go crazy.
#MeToo I didn’t get married in my 20’s, but almost everyone I worked with bought some kind of RE within a couple years of starting work. Some bought property alone, some bought it with gfs, some bought with friends, some bought with wives (but they were the minority in my group of friends). Two big things back then. No student debt, and there were options available that were 2.5-3 times a single salary.
Dfens You probably were alive. I am not as old as you might think. I am referring back to the mid to late 80s when we got jobs and married and kids and houses.
oh THEN you’d be crazy…
There was a lot of, buy with the gf, then get engaged some time after closing, then get married. Pre-1986 tax law you could write off everything under the Sun if it was an income property.
I’m simply pointing out what I see wrong in your assessment. City life doesn’t give you more time with your kids unless you are extremely wealthy. It actually makes your life very difficult due to the cost and space. People raising families in the city are either extremely wealthy or poor.
3b says:
March 23, 2018 at 12:15 pm
Pumps There you go again. Making broad assumptions and trying to convince me you are right and I am wrong. There is no right or wrong just what the realities are today.
For once you are right Pumps. The real problem working from home is:
A. Your work is probably never done.
B. You always find yourself passing by your desk, even when you aren’t working.
C. You sit down for “just a few minutes” to look at something or do something.
D. The next thing you know 4 more hours are gone from your life.
Working remotely is nice one or two days a week, but I do not ever want to work at home all week. I don’t want my home becoming my place of work. Feel like it would ruin that work/life balance, and make me go crazy.
” D. The next thing you know 4 more hours are gone from your life.”
Especially at 8pm!
@kurteichenwald
1. We have a lunatic, immature liar as president.
2. We have a lying warmongering arrogant fool as nat security advisor.
The only saving grace in the Trump administration now:
3. Mattis is sec def. Sane guy, smart guy. And Trump wont fire him because he likes his nickname.
This is vintage Pumps – it just shows how uneducated he is. Nobody moves out of the city to have more time, no matter how you claim the exact opposite.
1. Zero home maintenance to be done.
2. Combine your exercise with shopping.
3. Spend quality time with your kids on the way to and from places, either walking or on the train.
4. Teenagers get themselves to school and all events by themselves.
5. Enjoy yourself during every commute, reading, watching, or listening to whatever you want.
6. Endless new things to do.
There is nobody who says, “I just don’t know what to do with all of my extra free time now that I no longer live footsteps away from everything I need.”
The suburbs cost less because they are less.
I’m simply pointing out what I see wrong in your assessment. City life doesn’t give you more time with your kids unless you are extremely wealthy. It actually makes your life very difficult due to the cost and space. People raising families in the city are either extremely wealthy or poor.
@kurteichenwald
High spending.
Pro-tariff
Pro-Russia
Pro deficit
Pro debt.
This is the modern @GOP.
It is the ultimate proof that most Republicans have no idea what the party is supposed to be, and merely votes for the (R).
The party stands for nothing anymore.
Hey Pumps, can you put your daughter in a stroller and take her to have lunch with Mommy 5 days a week, plus spend quality time outside with Daddy on the way there and back?
DMV just asked me if I was registered to vote, it is bad enough they want my organs but now they want my vote too…
Strollers were like sports cars to me. Nothing beats a UK built McLaren stroller, single or double. Sadly, they are all made in China now.
@augieray
Now, let’s be fair.
I’m sure if Obama had cheated on his third wife for ten months with a Playboy model, evangelicals & conservatives would have been full of immediate and unconditional forgiveness.
You’re missing the point Juice, they want your vote if you’re illegal. It’s how they are getting new poor voters onto the rolls because the old poor voters aren’t voting as correctly as they used to.
DMV just asked me if I was registered to vote, it is bad enough they want my organs but now they want my vote too…
@paulkrugman
Trump is a symptom, not a cause, Part LXIX: the GOP spent decades stirring up white resentment in the service of tax cuts for the rich, and now finds that its base stands firmly behind the man who serves it up raw
Pumps just proved my point. Back to ignoring you.
Ex my house was a 170k and 1800.00 in property taxes!
@ezraklein
Donald Trump
has brought no evident business or real estate expertise to the White House.
But he really has brought a lot of reality show expertise to the job.
This is why New Jersey sucks ass. I am driving down to Garden State Parkway to go to the Atlantic City pure music festival and they decide to fill potholes in the express lane‘s in the middle of the day. Now that would be such an issue, if they put on one of those million dollar overhead signs that currently say click it or ticket, that you will be slow down and cost a half an hour of time if you take the express over the local. Let’s all give big raises to the cops and the public-sector workers. They deserve it.
Hey really don’t care about you. Why should you care about them?
Lib – I grew up in a family of 7 (5 kids). We too did not eat until my father got home and it was later than the other kids in my neighborhood, usually 6 or 6:30PM. I used to hate this because most of my friends had to go home to eat around 5PM for dinner leaving me with an hour to kill and no friends to kill it with. My friends, particularly in the Summer, would be out playing again by the time we ate dinner. We weren’t allowed out after dinner. The worst part would be being already in bed by 8PM or earlier, it would still be light out, and I could hear my friends out on the street still playing.
@pdacosta
Banana republicans.
DMV just asked me if I was registered to vote, it is bad enough they want my organs but now they want my vote too…
Organ donation should be opt-out, not opt-in.
It’s not that the Republican Party doesn’t stand for anything but what it stands for has changed under trump. It’s America first, citizens first and increasingly for the working man.
Democrat party is now the elite, open border globalists, free loaders and the socially progressives
Russia is a boogeyman that both parties use to advance their agenda.
same as voting registration
grim says:
March 23, 2018 at 1:35 pm
Organ donation should be opt-out, not opt-in.
NSFW (language) – I don’t know, I kind of like this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=th41B1JIYY0
Expensive & no corporate jobs
Fast Eddie says:
March 23, 2018 at 9:52 am
Atlantic, Cape May, Cumberland, Monmouth, Salem, Sussex, Warren all shrinking.
Monmouth County is one of the prettiest in the state, from the beaches inland. I can’t figure how Monmouth is shrinking.
@TheRealMcKeever
Follow Follow @TheRealMcKeever
More Chris McKeever Retweeted Paul Cruickshank
Can’t help but compare this bravery & resourcefulness to the Broward County Sheriff’s Department…
@CruickshankPaul
Follow Follow @CruickshankPaul
More
Early info: A LT Colonel in the French police swapped places with one of hostages and and then placed his phone on a table allowing security forces to understand what going on & take out the ISIS inspired terrorist. Police officer now seriously wounded:
It’s great if you are already wealthy, but if you are not wealthy, you are stuck paying 1 million for a closet. Never mind the costs of everything else that are also much higher. What you claim as free time is now spent trying to make up the new added costs of city living. Hence, you are either wealthy or poor if you choose to live in the city and try to raise a family. Single and unmarried, it’s easy, but bring family into that equation and it’s tough.
The Original NJ ExPat says:
March 23, 2018 at 12:49 pm
This is vintage Pumps – it just shows how uneducated he is. Nobody moves out of the city to have more time, no matter how you claim the exact opposite.
1. Zero home maintenance to be done.
2. Combine your exercise with shopping.
3. Spend quality time with your kids on the way to and from places, either walking or on the train.
4. Teenagers get themselves to school and all events by themselves.
5. Enjoy yourself during every commute, reading, watching, or listening to whatever you want.
6. Endless new things to do.
Zero maintenance? Your maintenance costs are more than a homeowner if living in a building not run by slum lords.
Good post….seems about right.
nwnj says:
March 23, 2018 at 1:35 pm
It’s not that the Republican Party doesn’t stand for anything but what it stands for has changed under trump. It’s America first, citizens first and increasingly for the working man.
Democrat party is now the elite, open border globalists, free loaders and the socially progressives
Yep all those people with kid’s I see in Jersey City and Harrison are either all wealthy or all poor. No middle ground ever with the pumps.
Yes, those people raising families in jc and Hoboken are beyond loaded. Same with Brooklyn. Trust fund babies, dude.
3b says:
March 23, 2018 at 2:28 pm
Yep all those people with kid’s I see in Jersey City and Harrison are either all wealthy or all poor. No middle ground ever with the pumps.
You can take the dope out of Passaic County but you can’t take the Passaic County out of the dope.
Yeah ok they are all trust fund babies. You are delusional!! Back to ignoring you.
Dickheadski – The response was to your sh1t thinking that you have less TIME (not money) if you live in the city. If you don’t understand how writing a check for your Condo’s monthly maintenance fee takes less TIME than maintaining your suburban highway house then you are as dumbski as you soundski.
Zero maintenance? Your maintenance costs are more than a homeowner if living in a building not run by slum lords.
Expat is right Pumpkin. The trade-offs are there and its all about the person’s choices. One isn’t “better” than the other. People just value certain things over others and they’re not wrong.
I have a friend from Nigeria. He’s a smart engineer, but he had no experience with anything in the USA and believed things that he probably heard at church from other Nigerians. One of his beliefs was that School buses make kids sick because they transport kids from different schools at the same time. I had to explain to him that school buses generally don’t transport kids from different schools at the same time. They pick up kids going to the same school and then drop them off at that school. It was hard for him to accept because he thought his information was accurate. I think his belief was that children from different schools have different diseases that, if kept in segregation with only their classmates, they had a unique immunity from their native (village?) diseases. But….when you mix kids from different schools in the confines of yellow steel boxes with windows, the diseases combine into new super-diseases that infect all of the children.
His premise was false so his hypothesis was automatically false. The difference between my friend and Pumps is that my friend understood quickly that his false premise invalidated any further evaluation of his (probably also false) hypothesis. He just needed to know that all the kids on the bus were going to the same school to realize his thinking was wrong from the start.
Pumps will never advance to that level, I’m afraid.
Not as long as the only person who is not allowed to profit is the donor/donor’s family.
grim says:
March 23, 2018 at 1:35 pm
DMV just asked me if I was registered to vote, it is bad enough they want my organs but now they want my vote too…
Organ donation should be opt-out, not opt-in.
Who do you exactly think lives in these expensive apartments? You think two bedroom is cheap? Yes, they are not all trust fund rich, but they are damn wealthy. You are fooling yourself if you think these are regular people raising families in jc, Hoboken, or the city.
3b says:
March 23, 2018 at 2:36 pm
Yeah ok they are all trust fund babies. You are delusional!! Back to ignoring you.
How much does that cost? If you own a home and take care of the maintenance yourself, you save a ton of money. So yes, they don’t have to do it themselves, but paying out the a$$ for someone else to.
The Original NJ ExPat says:
March 23, 2018 at 2:39 pm
Dickheadski – The response was to your sh1t thinking that you have less TIME (not money) if you live in the city. If you don’t understand how writing a check for your Condo’s monthly maintenance fee takes less TIME than maintaining your suburban highway house then you are as dumbski as you soundski.
Zero maintenance? Your maintenance costs are more than a homeowner if living in a building not run by slum lords.
Pumps might as well live in Appalachia for how ignorant he his about city living.
Why do you think suburbs exist? It’s a much cheaper alternative to raising a family. There is no comparison in cost per sq ft between the two locations.
Yes, there is no right or wrong answer, but what kind of choice are most millennials making when it comes to raising a family. My position is that they pick up and leave for the suburbs. They call me crazy for stating this.
LurksMcGee says:
March 23, 2018 at 2:44 pm
Expat is right Pumpkin. The trade-offs are there and its all about the person’s choices. One isn’t “better” than the other. People just value certain things over others and they’re not wrong.
Fooling myself ? No I am not. I know a few that are doing it. And I know others who know people who are doing it. They are not trust fund or ultra wealthy they do have good jobs. They could live in the suburbs they choose not to. Is it that difficult to understand? It’s not all about you and your house in Wayne.
Yes, sure…. so city living is cheap? And I stress, I do not want to live in slum lord run building where all the poor lives and nothing works. So please tell me where I can find a cheap place in the city?
The Original NJ ExPat says:
March 23, 2018 at 3:37 pm
Pumps might as well live in Appalachia for how ignorant he his about city living.
And once again, these are the people that are well off. They would be living in the nice town and million dollar house. Show me how a normal family on a 100,000 income lives in the city.
3b says:
March 23, 2018 at 3:43 pm
Fooling myself ? No I am not. I know a few that are doing it. And I know others who know people who are doing it. They are not trust fund or ultra wealthy they do have good jobs. They could live in the suburbs they choose not to. Is it that difficult to understand? It’s not all about you and your house in Wayne.
Pumps No that is not your position. Your position is that all or most will pick up and move to the suburbs like so many myself included did in the 80s. People getting married later and having kids later etc we have been through this all before yet you discount all of it. Keep waiting for the hordes of millennials to come you will be waiting for a long time today. Cities urban areas are a viable alternative for many today they were not back in the 80s.
Yes, suburbs cost less on a sqft level. But if you MIGHT be increasing your commute. That alone is enough of a trade-off to consider.
Monthly cost for housing might be different. You might have a yard and privacy etc, but you might lose 2 -4 hours out of your day to do it. For some people its worth it when the mom stays home. For some people its not when they have two high demand/long hour jobs.
All about the life choices and style people choose. Some people even home school. Its all about choice.
3b,
You claim millennials cant afford a house, and you expect them to be able to afford to raise a family in the city. The burbs are not dying, dude! You are seeing well off millennials living in the city and then act as if the rest can do the same.
Pumps, Pumps, Pumps – How much off your meds are you today? The comment was in response to your ridiculous assertion that suburban living saves you so much TIME over city living. Every one of my points was to illustrate how much more TIME efficient city living is. Everybody gets this except you. What do you care how much money it costs if you’ve already decided that it is a waste of time and money?
Try reading the list of TIME saving benefits of the city one more time and see if it clicks this TIME:
1. Zero home maintenance to be done. Saves TIME
2. Combine your exercise with shopping. Saves TIME
3. Spend quality time with your kids on the way to and from places, either walking or on the train. Saves TIME
4. Teenagers get themselves to school and all events by themselves. Saves TIME
5. Enjoy yourself during every commute, reading, watching, or listening to whatever you want. Saves TIME
6. Endless new things to do. Saves TIME
BTW, Have you ever had the TIME to even visit a city?
How much does that cost? If you own a home and take care of the maintenance yourself, you save a ton of money. So yes, they don’t have to do it themselves, but paying out the a$$ for someone else to.
To 3b’s point, most times the barrier to affording a home in the suburbs is the down payment. If they can swing the payment but don’t have the upfront cash for the down-payment, renting in the city is an alternative.
3b – think again!
It’s not all about you and your house in Wayne.
And the point that flew completely over your head was that this added time costs money. That means you have to work more, does this make sense to slow individuals like yourself? Why do you think I brought the cost of living into the debate?
The Original NJ ExPat says:
March 23, 2018 at 3:49 pm
Pumps, Pumps, Pumps – How much off your meds are you today? The comment was in response to your ridiculous assertion that suburban living saves you so much TIME over city living. Every one of my points was to illustrate how much more TIME efficient city living is. Everybody gets this except you. What do you care how much money it costs if you’ve already decided that it is a waste of time and money?
“Lurks” and some can handle the down payment and choose not to they would rather live in the city. Perhaps you can explain that to your friend.
So they are either rich and don’t care, or they are complete idiots pissing money away that they don’t have. Rent in the city is expensive.
LurksMcGee says:
March 23, 2018 at 3:52 pm
To 3b’s point, most times the barrier to affording a home in the suburbs is the down payment. If they can swing the payment but don’t have the upfront cash for the down-payment, renting in the city is an alternative.
If you make 200k whether living in the city or the suburbs that’s what you make period. Since most have exempt positions as in no over time you work until the work gets done. You both finish at 7:00 the guy in the city can be home 15 minutes to a half hour with a path or ferry ride. The guy in the burbs has an hour to 2 hour commute home. And more expensive vs the guy that just has to take path. Is that clear enough??
Are you slow like your friend expat?
If I could afford to raise my daughter in good conditions in the city…I would. Who the hell can afford that? What does 650,000 (price of my home)get me in the city besides a major headache? F that! Not living like the poor to say “I live in the city.” Not putting my daughter through that, she can experience dorm living in college (or whatever shi!!y dwelling college kids live in).
3b says:
March 23, 2018 at 4:04 pm
“Lurks” and some can handle the down payment and choose not to they would rather live in the city. Perhaps you can explain that to your friend.
Some if they don’t do what you think they should do they are idiots as it could mean the value of your house could be negatively impacted. Proof yet again!!
Pumps – If you live in the city they don’t make individuals pay for sewer repairs in the street. The city is more of a community that shares costs. You definitely wouldn’t like it.
3b – Judging by the quotes, you must think I’m still Pumpkin’s alter ego lol.
But to 3b’s last example (and taking your time=money view) the person with a 2 hour commute home technically loses money. Now I’m going to do the math, but maybe the equity that the suburban person has in their home might off-set that cost of time. Let’s just say their equal. So in the grand scheme, they could just as easily have an equal outcome except their lifestyle is simply different based on the choices. Pick apart if you want, but it still boils down to choice.
Perhaps you need to meet some of these people that are doing it like I have. They are leading perfectly fine lives and are happy whether they are renting or owning. What you can’t handle is that for many city living is a viable alternative. That in your mind could negatively impact your house value. You have a desperate desire to convince people that surburban living is the only alternative. Or more accurately to convince yourself. You
Lurks I know you claim not to be him perhaps you are not but you pop up too conveniently at times.
You all are sounding like Elizabeth Warren on the collapse of the middle class. She has been making these points long before she got into politics.
1.Though household incomes have increased over the last thirty-five years, median incomes for males have actually dropped by $800. (Women make less still.) Household incomes have only increased because both partners are working.
2. Household savings have gone from 11% of take-home pay to -0.8%, while the contemporary family has negative savings: revolving debt has risen from 1.4% of annual incomes to 15%. From saving 11% of annual income to indebtedness of 15% of income!
3. However, contemporary households actually spend less on consumer goods than they once did: 35% less on clothing, 18% less on food (including eating out,) 52% less on appliances, 24% less on automotive expenses per car. This revolving debt is not the result of consumer society, despite what everyone would have you believe.
4. Comparing households from 1970 with households in 2006, Warren adjusts for family size by asking questions about the two parent/two child household.
5. Mortgage payments are up 76%: real estate costs are way up, but it’s not really a matter of size. Median home size has gone 5.8 rooms to 6.1 rooms, basically an extra bathroom. However, new construction is aimed at the top 20% of families.
6. Health insurance and health costs are up 74%.
7. Since more families need two cars, the lower per car cost still leads to 52% increases in automotive costs for the two-income household.
8. Child care is up 100%, but that’s just because the average two couple household had no child care costs thirty-five years ago.
9. The median family is paying 25% more taxes than thirty-five years ago.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=akVL7QY0S8A
You are getting killed. You are building equity with the home as opposed to paying some of the highest rent in the country. Yes, no right or wrong choice, but in my opinion there is a smart choice and a dumb choice.
If you have no intentions of building wealth, do whatever, but if you are intent on building wealth….writing is on the wall.
LurksMcGee says:
March 23, 2018 at 4:15 pm
3b – Judging by the quotes, you must think I’m still Pumpkin’s alter ego lol.
But to 3b’s last example (and taking your time=money view) the person with a 2 hour commute home technically loses money. Now I’m going to do the math, but maybe the equity that the suburban person has in their home might off-set that cost of time. Let’s just say their equal. So in the grand scheme, they could just as easily have an equal outcome except their lifestyle is simply different based on the choices. Pick apart if you want, but it still boils down to choice.
The only slow one here is you. It’s quite sad how you behave and refuse to acknowledge your whole reason for being here is to cheer lead for your house value and how great living in the suburbs is and anyone who disagrees is wrong.
ExPAT
“Nobody moves out of the city to have more time, no matter how you claim the exact opposite.”
What you seem to miss in all this pontificating you are doing on marriage and living is “Your Mileage May Vary!” What works for you may not work for anyone else even if the situations are identical.
From High School sweethearts with a kid born as they are starting college, through Divorcees remarrying with a new baby and a blended family. Every situation is unique and people will look at what works for them.
You like city living, no problem, I hated it.
If you don’t buy it’s a dumb choice because I say so. Just discount all the positives of city living today in many peoples view because you say so.
I don’t care if the house doesn’t appreciate a dollar. You are simply forcing yourself to save money as opposed to spending it. That’s the beauty of buying vs renting. It forces people that can’t even afford a down payment to start saving money.
Lots of ways to create wealth without paying thousands in interest and property taxes.
Fab in all fairness your comments should be directed at pumps not ex pat. He acknowledged the positives of city living while also acknowledging the benefits of living in a s f h. Pumps on the other hand is of course one dimensional.
House came on in my town last sold in 2004. Asking price 25k lower than sold price. Blue ribbon train town etc.
So the answer is paying rent that always goes up?
Renting makes sense in bubbles, but it’s completely foolish at any other points of the cycle.
3b says:
March 23, 2018 at 4:28 pm
Lots of ways to create wealth without paying thousands in interest and property taxes.
But even the idea that you’re pissing away the money could be false. There are some people that forgo wealth building through a home. The alternative for them could be taking say 5% downpayment (if they couldn’t afford 20%) and invest that amount and rent. PITI could be the same as renting and instead they’ve chosen to invest that amount. There’s no smart or dumb decision. Its only smart or dumb when you factor in all the options a couple/single person has.
“writing a check for your Condo’s monthly maintenance fee”
You can have Condo Assocs in the suburbs, you also have the joy of HOA’s as well. My last condo assoc spent more time discussing furniture for the common areas than the rotting decking on the roof. They were worse than Ben Carsons wife.
In my own home I can write a check for any and every service I need. I even get my shirts picked up and returned while I am at work.
And I will always take a commute in my own car vs cramming onto public transport. It doesn’t smell and I’m guaranteed a seat.
Don’t put words in my mouth pumps. Only you speak in absolutes.
If you have to purchase a home with PITI, that’s more the reason you should buy instead of renting. You clearly can’t control your spending and this mortgage payment will be forced savings.
Unfortunately, most people don’t have the self control to save. They put themselves in such a bad position that they are forced to rent their entire life. Never escaping their current economic condition of spending everything they have.
For the few that are very good in the stock market and have self control to invest the money saved from the down payment, renting makes sense if it suits their needs. For most, they are better off buying if they have put themselves in the financial position to purchase.
LurksMcGee says:
March 23, 2018 at 4:47 pm
But even the idea that you’re pissing away the money could be false. There are some people that forgo wealth building through a home. The alternative for them could be taking say 5% downpayment (if they couldn’t afford 20%) and invest that amount and rent. PITI could be the same as renting and instead they’ve chosen to invest that amount. There’s no smart or dumb decision. Its only smart or dumb when you factor in all the options a couple/single person has.
Time in the city. Your kids soccer game is at Chelsea Piers, Cross town, Uptown.
Don’t have a car, its a pain to get around. Finding a cab in the rain. Sitting in traffic even on the weekend. Weekend bus schedule, Subway line down for maintenance.
Have a car, getting it out of the garage as they buried it at the back. Alternate side parking. Circling to find a new spot. Hauling all your gear to the spot you finally found at 1AM, six blocks away.
What are your thoughts on how much should be spent/invested on public transportation?
Fabius Maximus says:
March 23, 2018 at 5:02 pm
“writing a check for your Condo’s monthly maintenance fee”
You can have Condo Assocs in the suburbs, you also have the joy of HOA’s as well. My last condo assoc spent more time discussing furniture for the common areas than the rotting decking on the roof. They were worse than Ben Carsons wife.
In my own home I can write a check for any and every service I need. I even get my shirts picked up and returned while I am at work.
And I will always take a commute in my own car vs cramming onto public transport. It doesn’t smell and I’m guaranteed a seat.
3b,
The patronizing and bullying attitude aside, he makes a bad argument.
Some guy almost died in the swamps of Elizabeth New Jersey…
https://www.google.com/amp/s/articles.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2018/03/watch.amp
True. I watched this video a long time ago-it was spot on then and spot on now. It’s going to impact our children in future.
“You all are sounding like Elizabeth Warren on the collapse of the middle class. She has been making these points long before she got into politics.”
Joyce, if I though you wanted a serious discussion, I would give you an answer.
So I’ll just pass.
Can’t say I agree with this one. I don’t feel that if I or a loved one dies that someone automatically gets to take my organs in any way. It is actually a subject that I am well versed in.
“Organ donation should be opt-out, not opt-in.”
Elizabeth Warren is the on beacon of unwavering common sense. I hope she runs in 2020.
Fab I don’t know who you are referencing as for the bullying. But I think pumps was the bully today. We were all having a nice conversation back and forth regarding suburbs vs city living. There are pros and cons to both. My point is for many it works today even with the drawbacks and for many it is a viable alternative. Himself came in and hijacked the conversation as he does so many times. Why do that? To be the center of attention to justify his decisions I don’t know. It’s tiresome.
Pumps,
You forget many things. The other day you mentioned marriage and getting old.
You are currently married. How do you know you will be married next year? Ask me how I know. And if you are male and have children-good luck with the court system. You could end up like me.
A house is like an anchor- if you have some equity and the market is good less so, and also when married with 2 incomes less of a risk. With one income, all it takes is one illness, one job loss and you can lose a small fortune.
The best things to have are your drive, your skills, and your education. Your wife could disown you, your job could let you go, your children could hate you- but if you have drive, skills, and smarts you can survive.
Someone with great financial ability, renting a room for 300 per month, a laptop, an internet connection, and an account with UBER has the capability to make more money than someone spending it in a house with a 10k tax bill and a 500k mortgage. There are a couple of guys on this forum that if it were a contest I would be betting on them to be capable of just what I stated.
“You are getting killed. You are building equity with the home as opposed to paying some of the highest rent in the country.
If anyone tries to disrupt the flow of money in this country the way the powers that be want it, they might just get a dose of Novichok in their car vent. I don’t believe presidents are able to be protected from these types of people. They have billions, want more, and plan to keep it all for themselves. Obama had the bankers ready to be shot like fish in a barrel-they all walked.. Why?? Was he one of them, or were they going to ace his entire family? Ross Perot’s family was threatened during his election attempt.
Things go on that most of us will never know, but those levels of money buy more power than even our government- and many of those officials are corrupt and would go along with it.
“Elizabeth Warren is the on beacon of unwavering common sense. I hope she runs in 2020.”
Key: marry someone with more to lose than you. A man with nothing to lose is truly a force to be reckoned with.
https://re-nj.com/hoboken-toll-bros-project-includes-125000-sq-ft-spec-office-component/
Toll Bros launch office building development in Hoboken. Will be interesting to see what companies sign up for office space. Office rents in Hoboken running quadruple the NJ suburbs after adjusting for incentives (free rent periods).
Toll has killed it north Hoboken. Say getting $1,100 for condos there.
Another well done “no comment” comment of yours
Fabius Maximus says:
March 23, 2018 at 5:39 pm
Joyce, if I though you wanted a serious discussion, I would give you an answer.
So I’ll just pass.
Juice box,
That guy is an idiot.
re: “If anyone tries to disrupt the flow of money in this country”
The always connected world we live in sometimes gives us short memories. OWS occurred nearly 7 years agoooooooo. Even the President Obama expressed his feelings on their feelings….NOT that his DOJ sent anyone to jail over it.
“October 6 news conference, President Barack Obama said, “I think it expresses the frustrations the American people feel, that we had the biggest financial crisis since the Great Depression, huge collateral damage all throughout the country … and yet you’re still seeing some of the same folks who acted irresponsibly trying to fight efforts to crack down on the abusive practices that got us into this in the first place.”
Grim,
I think automatically opting people in to an organ donor plan would be illegal. Donating organ is most likely against a few religions guiding principles.
People are definitely moving into the suburbs, in their young to mid 30s.
I know people who have recently bought in:
Rutherford, Lyndhurst, Clifton, Bloomfield, Nutley, Belleville
re: opt out. You cannot specify which organ and tissues you want to donate at the DMV.
I really do not want my brain stored in a jar for eternity at some Medical College.
lol I love this.
Controversial ‘free-range parenting’ is now legal in Utah — here’s what that mean. Someone wrote, “Free range kids won’t be living in mommy’s basement at age 30.”
https://www.yahoo.com/news/controversial-free-range-parenting-now-legal-utah-heres-means-203114763.html
The state of Utah has legalized a controversial childrearing method called “free-range parenting.”
On Friday, Gov. Gary Herbert signed bill SB65 that would allow kids the freedom to walk to and from school, wait in parked cars (while their parents run errands in a store, for example), and visit playgrounds solo, according to a story published Monday by the Associated Press. The bill, which doesn’t specify an age limit for the above activities, will go into effect May 8.
“I feel strongly about the issue because we have become so over-the-top when ‘protecting’ children that we are refusing to let them learn the lessons of self-reliance and problem-solving that they will need to be successful as adults,” Sen. Lincoln Fillmore, who sponsored the bill, tells Yahoo Lifestyle.
As outlined in the bill, the following situations would not qualify as neglect: traveling to and from school or recreational facilities by walking, running, or biking, playing outside, or sitting in a car unattended, provided the child is at least 9 years old and in reasonably safe conditions.
Free-range parenting allows children to grow up with limited parental supervision with the goal of instilling independence. It also utilizes a “common sense” approach to when kids should be left alone.
https://twitter.com/joshmblackman/status/977324111264444421
J. Scalia dissent in Clinton v. Jones laid out roadmap to conditionally enact line-item veto: “Had the Line Item Veto Act authorized the President to “decline to spend” any item of spending, there is not the slightest doubt that authorization would have been constitutional.”
During my free range childhood we roamed in packs with firecrackers, B.B. guns, and gasoline. I learned a lot of self reliance.
Blue – still a bunch of pussies in the mountains of Utah.
“provided the child is at least 9 years old”
Pluueze I was in “our gang” at five years old…
re: firecrackers, B.B. guns, and gasoline’
Check, Check and Check!
Plus the occasional reel to reel “movie” some dad had left around to be found so we would project it a garage. I still have a burn mark from changing one of those hot bulbs..
“Another well done “no comment” comment of yours”
Exactly why I’ll pass.
If you want, we can assume I made a comment. You can misinterpret it and say ” you had a position seven years ago that was opposite!” You can have another snarky comment to close and I can continue to ignore you.
Will that make you feel better?
Mike s all city like suburbs. Just saying.
Fab- you are out of touch…
Your comment “I even get my shirts picked up and returned while I am at work.”
Daft are you? I can get a dead hooker delivered to you home in 30 minutes or less….(play on Amazon’s latest drone promise) (No I do not have dead to deliver! Wait@ trademark!!!)
Home delivery don’t sell it short…
You have to at least admire them for tackling the issue. 2 separate times at Disney I gave my just turned 3 year old daughter garbage to Chuck and immediately and adult swooped in and asked if she was lost. 15 seconds in with me watching her from 20 ft away. Society has become ridiculous and Utah is taking a step in the right direction
D-FENS, the comments on that are funny.
“Has @realDonaldTrump been reading his Scalia? Scalia seems to have spoke to many of the questions arising under Trump’s Administration (and usually in dissent).”
Asking if Donnie has read Scalia, is like that question to Sister Sarah on what newspapers she reads. To be fair, Donnie shouldn’t have to have that depth of knowledge. First, he should be rubber stamping what ever the GOP House and Senate have just sent him. Second the talent around him should be able to deal with that level of legislative and legal knowledge. But given what we are seeing with the legal talent in the WH, I wouldn’t trust them not to cut themselves with Safety Scissors.
Juice, that’s my point. There is no service in the city that I can’t get in the burbs.
3b I swear to god there’s on of you guys in every bar. Stop being such a worry wart. I just don’t have time to even care.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=x-64CaD8GXw
Pumps is actually right. The suburbs are cheaper, it is why we moved we wanted space and 3 bedrooms for 1.5m is simply not practical and everything costs more in a city. The people with kids in JC or Hob bought significantly long enough or are rich or are on the welfare rolls. If you don’t own a suitable home there you cannot buy one now at a reasonable price. Small 2 bedrooms are pushing 750-1m, what Pump’s comfortable highway house cost buys you a nice 1 bedroom oh and maintenance will cost 35-40 cents a foot in a no service building and 85-100 cents a foot in a full service doorman building. Did I mention the schools aren’t worth a damn outside of some charter schools and the magnet schools which you most probably won’t get into. NYC is even more stratospheric in terms of cost and the public schools are no great shakes either. My wife and I both work in Jersey anyway we gave up our 10 minute commutes and now suffer through a 45m-1hr commute. On the other hand we can drive to all conveniences where there is parking and I can drive to Jersey City or Hoboken in less than a half hour outside of commuting times(most times it’s like 20 minutes), restaurants are good and considerably cheaper than the hipster joints in JC. If NJTransit was such a sh*tshow the commute to penn would be very fast if need be.
We were at a playdate in JC this past weekend and the parents had a small 3 bedroom house 2 kids and you could see space was a bit tight, they bought some years ago and put in a lot of sweat equity. They are considering moving when the kids are school age because private school isn’t cheap and they likely could flip a crammed home for a big 5 bedroom house in Montclair or Maplewood with a pool, etc….a million buys a lot in the suburbs.
So pumps is right we all love living in a city but at the end of the day you have no space, oh yeah you need to pay for school, and parking yeah thats another 300 a month if you can find it. A large number of my older relatives grew up in tenements and they’d be the first to tell you they missed living in a city but the standard of living in their large suburban homes is infinitely higher. The average person has to live like a schlub to live in a city, you either need to be young, old, or rich. Regular families cannot afford city living in most US cities.
Dfens I am not worrying. Don’t know what I said that appears to have ticked you off, but whatever as the kids say today.
D-FENS,
That’s funny, I have some friends arranging for a load of us to head down to the Stone Pony to see them.
https://asburypark.eventticketscenter.com/dropkick-murphys-asbury-park-tickets/358547/e?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIr7H_34KE2gIV0lqGCh2vbwNEEAAYAyAAEgIVmfD_BwE
I even have some friends that may come over to see Flogging Molly who are on the bill.
I would actually be interested in Eddie Rays views on this, as he sits in his PA Nompound polishing his AR-15.
http://abcnews.go.com/US/england-patriots-lend-team-plane-parkland-students-families/story?id=53966708
@kurteichenwald
The GOP tab:
$1.1 trillion: Non-adjusted for inflation, $ flushed down the toilet for the Strategic Defense Initiative.
$1 trill: Adjusted, $ flushed away for S&L dereg.
$1 trill and counting: Unadjusted. $ flushed away on Iraq.
$3.1 trillion. And we didn’t even get a t-shirt.
Thanks for tip on Dropkicks tour. I checked a few weeks ago and then these shows weren’t announced. Just bought tickets to Asbury Park and Forest Hills shows. So will be in shrinking Monmouth and booming Queens in June.
Could ‘granny flats’ be the solution to America’s affordable-housing crisis? – MarketWatch
https://apple.news/ASuWJSwXJQj6W4VaEbImQEA
Jcer gets it!
California housing problems are spilling across its borders – My San Antonio
https://apple.news/A2I3wqe4jRE2Z8zKG7QE8qg
Exactly what I said would happen to the low cost places people go to escape the costs of places like Cali and jersey. They become exactly like the place they were leaving, but a much less desirable location.
People have to realize it’s impossible to hold down prices in locations that build up. Only way a location stays cheap is if no one comes there.
“A growing homelessness crisis. Complaints about traffic congestion. Worries that the economy is becoming dominated by a wealthy elite.
Those sound like California’s problems in a nutshell. But now they are also among California’s leading exports.”
Hold my beer,
Always told you that your area will pay the price for rapid population growth and unchecked development gone wild. Their problems will be worse than jersey in time.
“On a recent evening, Chance Reading, an electrician who has lived in the area for 15 years, went to the City Council chambers to speak against a proposed development near his home in Verdi, on Reno’s outskirts. He was part of a standing-room crowd that lined the back wall and spilled into the lobby. Neighbor after neighbor walked to the microphone to complain about clogged roads, overcrowded schools and a creeping sense that local residents were being overwhelmed by development.
“Our big message tonight is really about the pace of growth and trying to have a sustainable growth pattern versus a cycle of boom and bust,” Reading said before the meeting.
And it’s not just happening in Reno. Austin, Texas; Boise, Idaho; Denver; Phoenix; Portland, Oregon; and Seattle have all seen a huge influx of homebuyers from California, according to the real estate website Zillow. A common thread is that each of these cities faces a growing housing crisis that, while not as severe as California’s, is setting off many of the same debates.”