Fighting against the “look” of urbanism

It’s ok, it’s less ‘urban’ if we make it look like a completely fake “farm”. From the Record:

Montvale Planning Board members call plans for Mercedes-Benz site ‘too urban’

The housing and shopping center design for the former Mercedes-Benz headquarters is “too urban” for the farmlike look of the area, Planning Board members said.

They said they want the housing and shopping center, being called Triboro Square, to have buildings with a country-like feel and architecture to match the structures and landscaping of The Shoppes at DePiero Farm across the street.

Planning Board Chairman John DePinto said there needs to be more “conductivity between the two sites.”

“I think it’s important that the developments rely on each other in part for their success,” DePinto said.

The area, traditionally home to large office campuses including Mercedes-Benz and Sony, may eventually be Montvale’s new downtown.

The Shoppes at DePiero Farm in recent years replaced DePiero’s Country Farm, a family-owned farm store in Montvale for almost a century. The center proposed for the former Mercedes-Benz corporate offices is just the next step on the road to more changes for the area, officials said.

Richard Preiss, planner for applicant SHG Montvale, said roof styles and some building aesthetics proposed for Triboro Square are similar to existing structures at The Shoppes at DePiero Farm. He said there are also differences.

Preiss said the proposed design does fit in with the current look of the area, during his testimony in response to Planning Board members’ concerns.

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49 Responses to Fighting against the “look” of urbanism

  1. Yo! says:

    Montvale, approve the apartments. Best wishes to the developer on leasing the office and retail space. I like the name Triboro better than Shoppes.

  2. 1987 Condo says:

    There was also concern about “bailout” to Fannie and Freddie…results:

    “Eventually the handout turned into a handsome profit for the U.S. government. So far, Fannie Mae has paid $167.3 billion and Freddie Mac has paid $112.4 billion. Add it up, and the two drew $191.4 billion but paid $279.7 billion, a net profit of $88.3 billion — and they continue to pay.”

  3. joyce says:

    What would the ROI have been if the bailout money was invested elsewhere? What are the unseen results?

    1987 Condo says:
    September 6, 2018 at 8:23 am
    There was also concern about “bailout” to Fannie and Freddie…results:

    “Eventually the handout turned into a handsome profit for the U.S. government. So far, Fannie Mae has paid $167.3 billion and Freddie Mac has paid $112.4 billion. Add it up, and the two drew $191.4 billion but paid $279.7 billion, a net profit of $88.3 billion — and they continue to pay.”

  4. No One says:

    Good point joyce. For more elaboration on that which is seen and that which is not:

  5. The Original NJ ExPat says:

    I often wonder how long a tape measure I would need to be joyce’s tailor. I agree, it is a great waste of my intellect.

  6. Juice Box says:

    Nobody is streaming into New Jersey.

    “ICSC Florida: They’re coming and they’re building

    On the first day of the Florida Deal-Making Show in Orlando this week, I sat down next to a general contractor at lunch and asked him how was business. “The biggest problem we have right now is finding enough competent sub-contractors to do all the work we have lined up,” he replied.

    What’s going on in Florida is the reverse of the famous quote from the movie Field of Dreams. People are streaming into the Sunshine State in droves. The economy’s booming. Jobs are plentiful. The weather’s great, as usual. So new residents are coming, developers are building, and retailers are using the state as a platform for expansion. USA Today ranked Florida the fourth fastest-growing state with a population growth rate of 1.8% compared to a national average of 0.7%.”

  7. Juice Box says:

    re: 1987Condo – This guy is literally sitting on the beach flying kites waiting for Fannie and Freddie to be returned to shareholders.

  8. Yo! says:

    People are streaming into Hudson County at the fastest pace in 100 years. The population, which had been declining for decades, just blasted through the 1930s peak to a new record.

    Many parts of New Jersey, unfortunately, are suffering population decreases. One example is Monmouth County where the population is declining for the first time since reliable records have been collected dating to the 1700s. The Monmouth population decline could be the first since humans began settling there thousands of years ago.

  9. Juice Box says:

    Yo!- Sure Hudson is growing. It is growing into an extension of NYC with high rises and high rents.

    Thousands of years? What kinda strawman are you constructing here? Monmouth was a rural county and still mostly is, there is a farm at my exit with cows and goats etc. I can buy fresh eggs nearby.

    The population in Monmouth has stabilized. People aren’t having large families anymore. The population grew by 40% in the 1950s and then again 48% in the 1960s as the farms were converted to housing tracts. The population has stabilized, it is not declining more than a few hundred people a year. (which was around 160,000 in the 1940s). There will be no more large-scale developments, for now, they just cannot get financed. The closest large scale one was in Sayreville the old paint plant just over the bridge that now looks to be stalled again completely. I hope it stays this way, I love living here.

  10. The Original NJ ExPat says:

    My wife manages a cafeteria at a school. My children attend school, mainly, because they are children. Now begins the season where it is very, very, very quiet until about 3:20PM at home where I work. My season. I could be Pumps… except I’m not.

  11. The Original NJ ExPat says:

    BTW, joyce is a really, really, really fat chick. If you rolled her in 1000 lbs of flour, you still would n0t find a wet spot.

  12. Libturd...look me up in Costa Rica says:

    Meant to tell you guys about a fantastic pizza place we found in Pt. Pleasant. It’s definitely going to become a hipster haunt, so get there before it is ruined. Menu is so simple it fits on a bookmark. Even so, the meatball was incredible (up there with Rao’s in my opinion). They have a round and a square pie and you just choose your toppings. Everything is the highest quality. Buffalo Mozz, real nice dough, olive oily/winy homemade sauce made from fresh tomatoes. Even the one arrugula salad on the menu was gargantuan, but delicious. I think they also make a calzone. That’s it. Best of all, the soda fountain is open to all and the table service is limited so smaller tip OK.

    It’s called Rosie’s and it’s in the downtown away from the beach, so easy parking.

  13. grim says:

    If suburbs do not add additional housing units, they can expect population declines, even though every housing unit still contains a family.

    Household size (number of kids) has shrunk.

    Poof – magic – it’s how you can easily show significant population declines while there is still a car in every single driveway.

    The only way to combat this is to add more lower cost housing units, something that many municipalities will not permit. See today’s headline story about nonsense farm-y looking buildings being OK.

    Read into that, they aren’t saying we want to preserve farms and agriculture, they are saying they want their urbanization and corresponding development to look like they were, maybe, at some point, something like a farm.

  14. Yo! says:

    Only in NJ bubble is Monmouth County considered to be rural. It is top 100 US County by population. Monmouth density is >1,000 per square mile, above Nj average (NJ most populated state.

    Best way to describe Monmouth is suburbs past peak and in decline.

  15. The Great Pumpkin says:

    Told you I wasn’t making that up when I posted the text from good friend that is a general contractor. Employment market is all messed up and I blame income inequality. Focusing on profits with short term glasses created this mess.

    “On the first day of the Florida Deal-Making Show in Orlando this week, I sat down next to a general contractor at lunch and asked him how was business. “The biggest problem we have right now is finding enough competent sub-contractors to do all the work we have lined up,” he replied.”

  16. Fast Eddie says:

    I’d move to Monmouth before I go to Hudson and I was born and raised in Hudson County. Monmouth County is beautiful. It would seem quite obvious that Hudson is growing because of job availability. Duh. Why else would the plebs want to be fleeced of their rent money? The prices are absurd beyond belief.

    As for the building plans in Montvale, it will remove the quiet and bucolic area of Northern Bergen and turn it into Queens soon enough. More people living on top of each other. Wonderful. I’m sure the crowd from Monsey and Airmont will infiltrate soon enough as well. I thought I would live in North Jersey forever but when it becomes sh1thole, I’ll have no choice.

  17. The Great Pumpkin says:

    When you take a big crap on hard skilled labor for over 20 years in the name of profit, you get what you deserve. Too bad we end up paying for it.

  18. chicagofinance says:

    Think what you want. If you spend no time down here, then your credibility on this subject is really low. As usual, statistics and numbers belie the substance of the daily experience down here.

    For people of means, the lack of density, the convenience of what is offered locally in goods and services, the beach, and the also how quickly one can travel to points south are strong selling points. The land locked, polluted, and dense area north and west are strikingly unattractive, and offer no better convenience to NYC or points in New England.

    Yo! says:
    September 6, 2018 at 11:42 am
    Only in NJ bubble is Monmouth County considered to be rural. It is top 100 US County by population. Monmouth density is >1,000 per square mile, above Nj average (NJ most populated state.

    Best way to describe Monmouth is suburbs past peak and in decline.

  19. Bruiser says:

    When every little jerkwater town sees itself in direct competition with every other town and city in the state in terms of drawing large corporations, getting a walkable downtown completed, getting new high-density housing installed, etc, and little-to-no planning is done regionally or on a statewide basis, you get…this New Jersey sprawl. Yet those same jerkwater towns want to keep their agricultural roots. It’s like nu-suburban hipsterism.

  20. Juice Box says:

    Yo! Hudson County have Monmouth have almost the same size population. The main difference is 62 sq miles vs 665 sq miles.

    I’ll take my elbow room any day. This is an ex-New Yawker, born and raised in the Bronx, and ex-Manhattanite, as well as ex-Hoboken resident.

    If I want to go to NYC for work of pleasure I’ll jump on the ferry and bypass that landfill that is known as Hudson County.

    F*UC*K!-Hudson County!

  21. Yo! says:

    One reason for separation between growing Hudson and shrinking Monmouth is the abilility of local officials to issue residential building permits. Local officials in Monmouth struggle to allow housing to be built. Look at Monmouth Mall. Eatontown’s officials can’t figure out how to issue building permits to the owners, Kushner and Brookfield, both real estate heavyweights.

    If Monmouth is so delightful, why is population shrinking today after growing non stop centuries?

  22. Fast Eddie says:

    Jersey City and Hoboken were great back in the day, when it had its identity and moxie. Unless any of you guys grew up here, you have no idea. Those of us who ate at Tippy’s or the real Biggies or Pippy’s or Jules or Illvento’s or Ocean Eddies or Brazicki’s or Gimbert’s or knew Rosen’s furniture or Brummer’s or Dolph’s men’s clothes or Silver’s toys or Jupiter’s or the endless other places know what I’m talking about. You can also imagine what the old Bergenline Avenue was like when the Cuban’s owned these beautiful shops. Today? No thanks.

  23. Yo! says:

    I used to spend a lot of time in Monmouth. Then my friends who lived there moved away to be closer to Manhattan jobs or relocate to Sunbelt.

  24. No One says:

    Corey Booker – what an ass he is, and a little peacock. How about just throw him off the Judiciary Committee? As for what Booker leaked, it looks like a lawyer actually putting rational thought into a debate on the legalities of race, and generally saying that government should be color-blind. Which a race-baiter like Booker is against.

    from the WSJ
    “Sen. Cory Booker, a New Jersey Democrat and a rising star with the party who is believed to have ambitions to run for higher office, opened the third day of the hearings by announcing he was making public material that the Senate Judiciary Committee had obtained under the promise of confidentiality.

    Mr. Booker released four documents totaling 12 pages from Judge Kavanaugh’s time in the George W. Bush administration related to legal analysis of racial profiling and racial preferences. Other Democrats on the Senate Judiciary Committee joined him in his protest, saying they either planned to release confidential documents themselves or reserved the right do so in the future.

    “I’m knowingly violating the rules,” Mr. Booker said, adding that he would accept whatever consequences resulted from his act, including possible expulsion from the Senate. “I’m releasing committee confidential documents.”

    “This is about the closest I’ll ever come in my life to having an ‘I am Spartacus’ moment’,” Mr. Booker said. When Republicans on the committee said he was in violation of the standing rules of the Senate, he said: “Apply the rule. Bring the charges.”

  25. 3b says:

    Fast Bergen co is fast turning into Queens and has been for the last 15 years or so. You are new to the area so perhaps not aware of it. And as far as that penetration it’s already happening in Montvale and Mahwah. Bergen co ain’t what it used to be.

  26. Trick says:

    We were just down there last weekend, stayed in a hotel in Eatontown and went to the beach in Long Branch.
    Some of those house on ocean ave are ridiculous. The larger houses had driveways full of $100+ cars, all with NY plates. Kids and I played guess the tax’s when we got back to the room, largest we found was $52,000 on 9mil house.

  27. Fast Eddie says:

    And as far as that penetration it’s already happening in Montvale and Mahwah.

    I’m aware of it. I just had a friend sell in Toms River four years after buying because it’s turning into Lakewood.

    As for Bergen Cty. in general, I had relatives in River Vale, Washington Twp. and Fair Lawn going back to the 60s so it’s not foreign land to me. I know it changed, just like everything else seems to be changing… not for the better.

  28. Gobsmacked says:

    Re: Grim at 11:38. Turning the old Mercedes Benz facility into a “farmhouse” style shops/apartment deal reminds me of when my mother used to take an old shoe box and cover it in faux wood contact paper. This place will never look country enough to hide its origins.

  29. Juice Box says:

    Yo – The shrink you point out is a blip, fact is we don’t want high density and the problems that come with it, we like our mature stable county.

    Hoboken for example is the poster child of bad planning. They issued way too many residential building permits now they are suffering do to the overdevelopment, case in point the clean water problems that plague the city weekly, the 100 year flooding every few years and lack of good public schools. All are symptoms of the bigger problem wich is overdevelopment and bad planning by the local officials issuing too many residential building permits, nevermind the idotic rezoning of flood zones from commercial to residential.

  30. Fast Eddie says:


  31. Fast Eddie says:

    On a separate note, every news story on every news outlet it seems is a Trump bashing feast. It doesn’t surprise me since 90% of the media is run by liberal puss1es. They can’t report about any domestic or foreign issues because there are none. 4% plus GDP growth, more jobs than people to fill them, record low unemployment, not a peep about ISIS, Syria nor any other ground-breaking strife.

    Even the Russian collusion seems to have gone away. Remember that story? News is now Colin Kapershit and his endorsement by the feckless cunts parading as men at N1ke. I had two shirts, a cap and sneakers with the N1ke logo. I suspect they’re sitting somewhere in Kearny about now. I pray for a 2nd American Civil War.

  32. 3b says:

    Fast no not for the better. I can’t believe how run down and shabby once formerly nice looking towns are becoming. Very ironic for a Bronx boy like myself.

  33. ExEssex says:

    11:38 A “homeless Petting Zoo” real live cuddly homeless in their little tents ready and waiting for your tender touches. Come on kids see these people in their real environment before the MAGA business wave sweeps them into jobs in retail management.

  34. ExEssex says:

    1:46 perhaps or possibly there is a sense of alarm that this dimwit is going to ignite some sort of WW3 scenario with the stroke of Stupid.

  35. Fast Eddie says:

    2:47 – Right, all by himself. Who’s the dimwit? I think the anger is because the weepy left would rather discuss funding to make everyone a hermaphrodite so that they can go f.uck themselves.

  36. chicagofinance says:

    The Students Are Coming! Boston Copes With Back- to-School Invasion The city of 700,000 scrambles to absorb a tribe of some 150,000 college students.

    By Jennifer Levitz and Douglas Belkin

    BOSTON–Residents here will welcome back nearly 150,000 college students this week by pulling their cars off the street, yanking potted plants off sidewalks and warning young drivers not to smash into bridges with their rented moving trucks.

    The city’s annual scramble to cram in a tribe of adolescents equal to about a fifth of the permanent population is an end-of-summer rite. Many students exhibit straight-A behavior during what can be a stressful time. But while Boston enjoys huge economic and intellectual benefits from its hyper concentration of students, it doesn’t come without headaches.“The next coming couple of weeks are going to be terrible,” says Boston restaurateur Jorge Mendoza, owner of Vinoteca di Monica in the North End, Boston’s Little Italy. He is girding for the annual onslaught of students urinating near the entrance to his establishment, pulling flowers out of pots along his storefront and vomiting on his private property.

    “It’s pathetic; it’s mayhem; it’s not funny,” he says of some students’ conduct. “Maybe we should do what their parents don’t do anymore and give them a nice spank.”
    Boston is home to nearly 700,000 residents but come September, the students, attending 35 colleges, reshuffle the pecking order. Traffic backs up, sidewalks are ruled by undergraduates walking four across, a cup of coffee takes twice as long to buy.Thousands will drive in this week from out of state in moving vans. If history is a guide, at least one will ignore the blinking warnings signs on Storrow Drive and steer a 12-foot tall vehicle under a 11-foot bridge. The bridge will win. The ensuing mess will take hours to clean up and back up Boston’s serpentine traffic for miles.The accidents are so predictable they have a name—getting “Storrowed.” And a hashtag, #Storrowed. The agency in charge of the roadway, which winds alongside the Charles River, sent out a warning on Monday. “College students: When we say we hope your school year starts with a bang, we don’t mean your truck’s roof hitting the bottom of a bridge.”

    Collegiate renters take over more than 10,000 buildings across the city and pretty much everything comes to a standstill when their armada of moving trucks arrives. Because the rental market is so tight, summer-term students are often moving out the same week their replacements are moving in. In the exchange, hundreds of pieces of unwanted furniture are left on sidewalks.In the neighborhood of Allston, where Boston College and Boston University students congregate, the unpacking has become a boon for locals who peruse the streets in search of good furniture for themselves.

    “We call it Allston Christmas,” says City Councilor Mark Ciommo. “You can furnish your own apartment with what’s left behind.”

    If you don’t get your car wrecked first.

    “You’ve got 20-year-old kids driving giant U-Hauls, tearing off mirrors,” said Rick Holahan, a 37-year-old banker who lives in nearby Brighton, another student hub. “Everybody is angry, hot, sweaty and fighting for parking.”

    Mr. Holahan’s strategy? “I escaped,” he says of his departure to Cape Cod through Labor Day. “It is the weekend to get the hell out of Boston.”

    Sabra Mayfield, 68, who lives in Brookline, a town bordering Boston, says the annual influx of college students is “not a pretty picture.”

    “It’s a nightmare from now right up until Labor Day,” says Ms. Mayfield.Her condominium complex fills up with student renters who don’t seem to know how to use their indoor voices or walk softly when they come home at 2 a.m., she says, making it feel like a dorm. “I learned that on Thursday nights, you put on the earplugs—Thursday, Friday and Saturday.”

    Emily Brandvold, a 21-year-old senior who attends Boston University, offers hope, saying many students calm down as they “age up.” She sometimes nudges younger schoolmates to tone it down, particularly if she sees them being noisy in residential areas. “I’m like, ‘Shhhh, heads up guys, people are sleeping. Let’s not shout.’ ”

    Of course, residents themselves may be handfuls. In some cases, they have called police to report disturbances only to have officers arrive and find outrages like a “couple students playing Frisbee,” or “2 roommates outside having a smoke and very quiet” conversation, according to records of complaints to area police.

    Some shopkeepers enjoy the student business. “It’s awesome—we’re very happy to have them back in town,” says Rose Capone, owner of Al Capone, a Boston pizza and sub eatery named for her father-in- law, not the legendary gangster.

    Yoga studios in Brookline offer limited-time discounts to new customers, and say some bargain-hunters go from one special to another. “We definitely see that there are people who do the ‘new-student-special hop,’ ” says Sylvie Manning, a manager at Coolidge Yoga. Still, she says she enjoys the youthful “vibe” college students bring.
    In 2014, Kim Costa, who grew up in Medford, home to Tufts University just outside of Boston, turned on the local television news and watched the mayor of Boston “gently advise” college students moving into town to behave. Ms. Costa had worked as a waitress on and off for 30 years and said she was regularly stiffed by college students who left messes and paid with their parents’ credit cards. She felt most of them were disrespectful so she fired off a 55-second video that went viral.

    “Real quick reminder to all the college students that are coming back to Boston to further their higher education,” she said. “This is really important. This is something you are going to carry with you through your entire academic career in the 617 area code: Nobody likes you, you’re a visitor here; an interloper. All right, so I want you to keep that in mind while you’re strutting through the crosswalk in Harvard Square with your pink popped collar.”

    Take a Look at Other Recent A-Heds‘The Classy Way of Doing a Beer Bong.’ Restaurants Push Upscale Shots The Secret to Surviving Military Service: Moisturizer, Foam Cleanser, Cucumber Face Mask No Cats, No Sleepovers: Boomers Become Housemates Ms. Costa says it is the attitudes that anger her. She has nothing against higher education; in fact, she was in her car on the way to a college class when she filmed the video.Mr. Mendoza, the North End restaurateur, says he spends Saturday mornings cleaning his doorway so it “doesn’t smell like a barn.”

    “If you get to that point, puke behind a tree. Puke in a park,” he says, exasperated. “Why do you have to puke on people’s private property?”

  37. chicagofinance says:

    Too expensive for people’s kids….. most people that move back from Hoboken/JC/NYC are late 30’s / early 40’s….. demographics….

    Note these enrollment trends for my local school district…..
    Note how few kids there are between K-4th grade (i.e. born 2009-2013)……. hmmmmm….. WTF could have been happening then?

    FYI – enrollment trend is reversing…… 120 new kids added to school district (PreK-8) for 2018-2019. Peak was 1500. Trough was 970. Current is 1090.

    Yo! says:
    September 6, 2018 at 1:04 pm
    If Monmouth is so delightful, why is population shrinking today after growing non stop centuries?

  38. ExEssex says:

    3:10 i’m Pretty sure that’s covered by Medicare.

    But seriously Trump is a very messed up moron.

  39. MAGA2020 says:

    Right on Esx. Let’s rely on unelected unaccountable deep state hacks and fake news to drive policy. That’s real democracy.

  40. Comrade Nom Deplume, who isn't Spartacus says:

    I read the emails that Booker “bravely” posted online.

    What a f#@King nothingburger. Because they had the words “racial profiling”in the headers, they were supposed to be explosive.

    I want those three minutes of my life back. I wonder if I can send Booker a bill for analyzing the emails and determining that they are worthless shiite.

  41. Comrade Nom Deplume, professional rabble rouser says:


    I am all in favor of states passing single payer and mandating payment for any procedure that they want.

    The results will be fun to watch.

  42. Libturd...look me up in Costa Rica says:

    Booker’s been hanging with that dyke Maddow apparently.

  43. 1987 Condo says:

    Grim, your 1:34 pm that not what was posted at 8:23, or was yours the “PM” edition?

  44. The Great Pumpkin says:

    Lmao…That’s great! Start the class action lawsuit! Count me in.

    “I want those three minutes of my life back. I wonder if I can send Booker a bill for analyzing the emails and determining that they are worthless shiite.”

  45. The Great Pumpkin says:

    After 25,000 Stores in 78 Countries, Starbucks Turns to Italy – The Wall Street Journal

  46. Blue Ribbon Teacher says:

    Booker has always been an attention whore.

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