From Barrons:
Home Buyers Are Looking for Price Cuts. Realtors Say Sellers Aren’t Budging.
The coronavirus pandemic has dampened the spring homebuying season by nearly every measure—but buyers still might not find the discounts they’re looking for.
Of the nearly 3,000 agents surveyed by the National Association of Realtors (NAR) between April 19 and 20, 64% said buyers expect a decline in home prices, with the largest share of those predicting a drop between 5% and 10%.
The majority of home sellers aren’t budging, according to the realtors who work with them. According to the NAR survey, 74% of agents currently working with sellers said none have reduced the price to attract buyers. Of those agents whose clients have reduced their prices, the majority reported price reductions of less than 5%.
This dissonance between buyer and seller expectations is not necessarily surprising, says NAR chief economist Lawrence Yun. “Buyers—even in a normal market—they want to get a little discount,” Yun says. Sellers, meanwhile, “anticipate that once the economy reopens, given the housing shortage, that there is not a need to lower the prices.”
Got my sars-cov-2 antibody test this morning.
CNN deletes Larry King episode from catalogue where accuser’s mother supposedly called in about Biden.
How much did it cost grim?
NJ numbers continue unabated despite masks and distance everywhere. Remove everything, open everything, schedule the baseball games, return to concerts and plays and let fate decide.
“CNN deletes Larry King episode from catalogue where accuser’s mother supposedly called in about Biden.”
Unbelievable, but not really. Hope it’s been uploaded somewhere. POSs.
Yeah, it’s up here. Definitely an Orwelian type move on CNN’s part.
https://www.bizpacreview.com/2020/04/26/cnn-removes-larry-king-live-episode-with-tara-reades-mom-from-catalog-archives-colluding-with-campaign-913231
I would argue sellers in many cases will blink before buyers, for a host of reasons. I can’t believe anyone thinks once we reopen that buyers will go back to paying over inflated prices for houses. It makes no sense.
Blue Ribbon – why don’t you read up on all the genuine fraud stories of all the goons in this administration instead of chasing conspiracy theories. Since you are a so-called teacher you can start with Betsy Devos.
Bizpac Review – who even reads such tabloids! Geez. Get a life!
Conspiracy? I stated a fact that CNN removed a clip. And FYI, if you check my post, I say “supposedly”. But don’t let your own biases against me and your own political leanings stop you from trying to paint me as a right winger. I’ll gladly vote democrat if you put a better candidate up. And FYI, I voted for Phil Murphy.
And as far as Devos is concerned, I’m all for completely eliminating the DOE and firing her. They do nothing and have zero effect on what I do in the classroom. Patronage pit…that’s all it is.
Also, I do not read the publication I linked to. The video is contained on the link and is the first search result from DuckDuckgo
Blue That’s how it’s going now in this country, if you don’t follow the party line, then you are suspect and must be a closet Trump supporter, right winger. Next stop re-education camps.
The economy is in shambles. Unemployment through the roof. America is being laughed at around the world. A megalomaniac as president destroying everything and who will take down everything with him.
You have one light at the end of the tunnel – Joe Biden, whether you like it or not.
And what do you do? Go out of your way to try and destroy his credibility chasing rumors.
Listen, I voted for Trump as well for 2 reasons. Deregulation and Tariffs. I’m on record on this site dating back to 2010 saying that tariffs are necessary. Joe Biden has no credibility at this point. He’s on camera sniffing girls and children. He’s got a sexual assault allegation on him that actually seems to have some sort of evidence dating back to the time of the allegation. He’s literally fumbling around interviews and speeches to the point where you don’t know how senile he is. And you want me to vote for him?
Any number of reasonable people who’s views I don’t 100% align with considered running. The DNC and the leftists media chased them all away. When Howard Schultz was toying with a run, the leftist media went after him. When Bloomberg considered running, the entire gang did nothing but gang up on him in debates. Now Bloomberg sucks at public debating, but he wasn’t awful at governance. Then what do they do after they all gang up on him? Drop out.
CNN deleted the video? You tell me why.
Rent: You are right, and that’s the sad part, in these unprecedented scary times, the savior offered by the Democrats is Joe Biden? Does he inspire hope, and confidence, does he have any track record, any accomplishments? No, he is just not Trump. Anyone can fit that bill. We need a real leader, someone vigorous and confident, that’s respected, that will make the hard decisions , that will stand up to the Chinese, that will restore at least some real manufacturing capabilities back to this country. That will address the health care issues, decline of the middle class and all the other issues this country faces. Instead we get Joe Biden who has been complicit in the decline of this country.
Gentleman,
The light that you see at the end of the tunnel is not Biden the Savor, but the 4:55 Karmic WhoopA55 Express Train running late and making up on speed.
I always thought the “Fourth Turning” generational theory was hocus pocus. But frankly, I’m in awe of it right now. Nothing will change, no one riding a white horse will come.
What will happen is we either wait out their death, or someone hunts down all the corporate and governmental morally and intellectually bankrupt locust boomer power brokers.
Once gone, a new generation with a set of ideas, morals, and internal fortitude hopefully will have to do the hard work to get back to the top of the mountain that we slid off slowly for the last 40 yrs. That is all.
More anti-body test results
https://www.miamiherald.com/news/coronavirus/article242260406.html
12:05 just not Trump works for me. Get rid of the red state Senate too. Winnnning!
“For a woman to come forward in the glaring lights of focus, nationally, you’ve got to start off with the presumption that at least the essence of what she’s talking about is real.”
-Joe Biden, discussing Blasey-Ford during the Kavannaugh confirmation.
So the DNC runs the same Hillary Clinton campagin, except the candidate is riddled with dementia and now has, what appears to be, a credible sexual assault allegation against him.
And according to RentLord – We are grasping at straws to discredit him.
How about this for a solution – You don’t want me to vote for Trump. That’s cool with me, I am searching for a reason to support Biden. I can’t find anything. Get the poor guy to step down and give me someone that has a real chance. I am begging for it.
Also – What about Warren, Sanders, Klobuchar, Mayor Pete – All are 100% on the side of protecting women’s rights, all have endorsed Biden.
Zero of them have even brought up that this should be looked into.
Just know that #Metoo is going to die and it will be killed by it’s own creators.
Yes Essex and we can be back to the glory days of hope and change, which in reality was just more of the same.
Let’s hire 20 million people to do contact tracing.
Guys, Joe Biden knows how to run the government. He’s been in it for a while and he has worked with people on both sides.
Is he a saint? Hell no. But he’s not surrounded by leeches. I just want a functioning government and let checks and balances take care of the rest.
Unless Mark Cuban says he’s running, just shut up and give Joe Biden your vote.
But he’s not surrounded by leeches.
lmao.
Eddie – I expected you to come to your dear leader’s defense.
This: https://youtu.be/uFAIocFPfFo
“Hope it’s been uploaded somewhere”
It required some arduous internet sleuthing but I was able to uncover the video clip in question by simply opening the link BRT sent where ironically they link a CNN!! site which shows the video and transcribes the entirety of it and also contains a discussion around the whole thing.
These are some piss poor conspirators.
Cue the “release the long form video” nutjobs.
12:58 …. more of the same circa Obama/Biden sounds great about now.
People Were Leaving New York City Before the Coronavirus. Now What?
Exodus would shrink tax revenue, which would hurt vital services
Ross Sapir’s customers are clear when they call to hire a moving van: They are leaving New York City because of the coronavirus crisis and they aren’t sure when, or if, they are returning.
Mr. Sapir, president of Roadway Moving, said his storage business is booming as people with the motivation and means flee the epicenter of the pandemic, which had killed nearly 11,000 in New York City as of Saturday.
More at: https://www.wsj.com/articles/people-were-leaving-new-york-city-before-the-coronavirus-now-what-11587916800?mod=mhp
“And what do you do? Go out of your way to try and destroy his credibility chasing rumors.”
Among Biden’s many incompetencies most certainly credibility destruction is not one. He is fully capable of crushing his claims to credibility entirely on his own and needs no outside help.
“Now Bloomberg sucks at public debating, but he wasn’t awful at governance.”
I have two not insignificant issues with Bloomberg but if he were the Democratic nominee I would have voted for him this cycle.
Unfortunately, now, back to another protest vote using the orange moron. His nomination was a b1tch slap to the Republican Party that they couldn’t continue to serve up warmed over cat vomit and expect their masses to acquiesce. His election over HRC should have been a bazooka blast to the head of Dems with the same message, but instead they seem intent on doubling down with aged political hack lifers.
So, ironically, voting Trump is a pathway to getting better future governance. Perhaps if he steamrolls Biden the Dems will finally legitimately open the field to newcomers and to some of their more dynamic party outsiders (Cuomo anyone?). Too bad they are intent on bringing in 50 year political operatives because they’ve “waited for their turn” like good soldiers.
You know my background and philosophies. Literally, you could have seen me pull the D lever this cycle. That’s saying something. Too bad.
“You have one light at the end of the tunnel – Joe Biden, whether you like it or not.”
“Unless Mark Cuban says he’s running, just shut up and give Joe Biden your vote.”
I will never take ultimatums like the above. In any facet of life. As a matter of fact I will actively oppose them on principle to the extent of going against my own self interest.
Yet another example of how the established Left simply does not understand Middle America, or why they lost the last election to someone any third grader could have beaten, and why they will lose this election.
And Mark Cuban? Really? Is that a joke? LOL. You hitting SX’s stash with that recommendation?
Wow the hypocrisy is astounding. I’ll still vote for Donnie as there is a “credible” allegation against Joe.
Have a scroll through 25 credible against Donnie.
https://www.businessinsider.com/women-accused-trump-sexual-misconduct-list-2017-12
>> So, ironically, voting Trump is a pathway to getting better future governance.
Governance and Trump don’t go together, even less in the same sentence.
What a country we live in! We don’t even learn from our mistakes.
Leftwing
“His nomination was a b1tch slap to the Republican Party” That’s where you have to go to resolve your issue. Funny that always gets lost in these discussions. Instead of fixing their own party, they want to cuckoo the Dem nomination.
Again its not up to the Dems to give moderate republicans a candidate tailored to them.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzDhm808oU4
Jordan Klepper vs. Trump Supporters
Again its not up to the Dems to give moderate republicans a candidate tailored to them.
It pretty much is…because the Dems are going to lose the election if they don’t.
>> It pretty much is…because the Dems are going to lose the election if they don’t.
What?!
How long does a blood test take to get results back for Covid?
So the Democrats are not responsible to provide a candidate that moderate. Republicans can vote for, so are we saying Biden is a progressive, a radical? Do Democrats actually believe that?
“Again its not up to the Dems to give moderate republicans a candidate tailored to them.”
First off, I am NOT a moderate Republican. I despise them. Since I was in high school. They are the party of Dole, Romney, Bush, McCain, and their ilk. Do not insult me by grouping me with politicians like them.
Secondly, DJT is not a Republican. He hijacked the Party from the aforementioned Cosa Nostra families. The Republican Party (establishment) understands very clearly what they need to offer going forward given the freak that beat their “best established” candidate last cycle.
Lastly, again, I’m not looking for the Dem Party nominee to “save” anyone, even typing those words is hilarious. I am reiterating the point above as it relates to the Dems:
The Dem Party will be not win by offering up the “best established” candidate. Until the idiot party insiders open the nomination to your younger best and brightest there will be disinterest. I’m not offering that up for my benefit for you to give me a candidate….I’m offering that up for the benefit of the Dem Party….keep serving up warm cat puke and people will keep taking a pass.
Just a cursory review of Biden’s time in D.C. illustrates that he is a corporate hack and has always put the interests of big business and Wall Street over the middle class he claims to love. It’s up to the Democratic Party now, to decide how they move forward, because at some point the young people are going to take it over and tear it down.
Left wing & 3b no one cares about whatever convoluted logic drives your gears.
Ex Same for you and your self absorbed gibberish and rankings. Keep searching for that piece that seems to be missing.
If there are credible rape accuasat against Trump, then I am 100% in favor of this being investigated. Weird though that in the last 4 years of microscopic media scrutiny, nothing more has come of those Trump accussers.
But let’s make a deal, Tara Reade gets her claims investigated and I will also support Trump’s accuser. What do you think?
Aiming for perfection in 2020? lol
Let’s get the country operational first.
I’m talking to other business owners who applied for PPP. Who gets the loan and how much they get – if at all, is totally messed up. No oversight on what loan amounts are given and to who. The robbery of the middle class to give to the rich has never been done at a bigger scale.
“Left wing & 3b no one cares about whatever convoluted logic drives your gears.”
I’ll bookmark this page and remind you of it the night of November 3….
For the record, again, IMO DJT is a freakshow. But he will be re-elected.
OH, WI, MI, FL, NC, PA. Nothing else matters. Take whatever view on my opinion you want but realize…these are my peeps, I know them, and THEIR opinion is the only one that matters.
Joe is allegedly a creepy womanizer and assaulter while the Orange clown is on record saying he grabs women and he would date his daughter..ok. lots of logic here today. Just vote guy. You were always going to anyway but don’t say it is bc Biden is amoral candidate…my god.
Left-wing – Nov 3 is the only day that matters but I see tricks on the horizon well before then.
How about this – I want to wager someone that Biden never even steps on the debate stage with Trump. There will be some excuse and plenty of media cover for Joe bit there is no chance the DNC let’s him and Trump go toe-to-toe for 2 hours.
My bet may sound like conspiracy buy I’m will to wager on it. Takers?
Joe Biden is our savior? Lmao. I’ve heard it all now. Like Jon corzine was a financial genius. Rip the bandaid off and let fate decide. The fat bastards and the weak will have to die.
Remember. It’s just a Dream fat boy!
Not into conspiracies really but you have to wonder about this Covid-19 thing and the timing, etc.
Extrapolate much AG?
Raise your hand if you want a functioning government. It will be boring, but we need it more than ever. Biden may not be a genius, but it is beyond him to be a bully. Let there be a government in the true sense of the word.
There is simply no reason for any W2 employee to vote for Trump, except of course stupidity.
Eddie, it was a long time coming… totally expected. We just happen to have the worst President ever.
Rent,
I was making more money on my investments than ever, got a promotion, bigger raises and bonuses at work, had other offers all under the Trump administration. Everyone I know was doing well until this plague hit. He’s the worst in your eyes because you hate him and because he doesn’t speak like a politician or he doesn’t cater to your needs. Dems did nothing but impeach, impeach, impeach for the last three years.
Fast – he got lucky as long as he could. So did I – I made money in my business. But that does not cloud my logic.
Financially, his tenure before this crisis was all about robbing future generations and putting it in the pockets of few. Some of it trickled down to you and me.
Education – you know what was happening with Betsy Devos leading.
Morally – we were as bankrupt as ever.
Soft power around the world – China, Russia and the Sheikhs have Donnie by the balls, and so to our country’s policies.
Research – I know quite a few scientists who left the country to setup labs elsewhere. NIH, CDC funding – at it’s lowest.
I can go on.. there are facts to prove it. But I know you have your mind made up. Every country deserves the leader it deserves – said someone famous. Maybe it’s true.
Bystander That is why there is a 3rd way.
Don’t vote. A powerful message could be sent if America stayed home on Election Day.
The “Don’t vote” guys are the strongest closet Trump supporters.
Rent Lord :No surprise you would say that. It’s reflective of those who cannot respect that there are people who will take a principled stand and say no to both parties. We have to be secret Trump supporters; it has to be black or white. Will you be advocating for us to be interned in re-education camps?
More details of the biggest robbery ever –
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/04/26/small-business-loans-public-companies-took-855-million.html
26, 2020
byCommon Dreams
Out of 13 Hours of Trump Covid-19 Briefings, Just 4.5 Minutes of Empathy for Victims: Analysis
“During his briefings, Trump spent 10 minutes praising himself for every 1 minute he spent expressing condolences for the 50,000 Americans who died.”
Imagine the next pandemic.
Let’s imagine the virus needs very dry air and heat to spread. Areas like Las Vegas and Phoenix get crushed. NYC in the other hand has relatively mild cases, some death but a fraction of what they have in the desert.
Do you think NYC would shut down for 1 minute? Not a chance.
WASHINGTON — President Trump’s erratic handling of the coronavirus outbreak, the worsening economy and a cascade of ominous public and private polling have Republicans increasingly nervous that they are at risk of losing the presidency and the Senate if Mr. Trump does not put the nation on a radically improved course.
The scale of the G.O.P.’s challenge has crystallized in the last week. With 26 million Americans now having filed for unemployment benefits, Mr. Trump’s standing in states that he carried in 2016 looks increasingly wobbly: New surveys show him trailing significantly in battleground states like Michigan and Pennsylvania, and he is even narrowly behind in must-win Florida.
Democrats raised substantially more money than Republicans did in the first quarter in the most pivotal congressional races, according to recent campaign finance reports. And while Mr. Trump is well ahead in money compared with the presumptive Democratic nominee, Joseph R. Biden Jr., Democratic donors are only beginning to focus on the general election, and several super PACs plan to spend heavily on behalf of him and the party.
Perhaps most significantly, Mr. Trump’s single best advantage as an incumbent — his access to the bully pulpit — has effectively become a platform for self-sabotage.
His daily news briefings on the coronavirus outbreak are inflicting grave damage on his political standing, Republicans believe, and his recent remarks about combating the virus with sunlight and disinfectant were a breaking point for a number of senior party officials.
On Friday evening, Mr. Trump conducted only a short briefing and took no questions, a format that a senior administration official said was being discussed as the best option for the president going forward.
Glen Bolger, a longtime Republican pollster, said the landscape for his party had become far grimmer compared with the pre-virus plan to run almost singularly around the country’s prosperity.
“With the economy in free-fall, Republicans face a very challenging environment and it’s a total shift from where we were a few months ago,” Mr. Bolger said. “Democrats are angry, and now we have the foundation of the campaign yanked out from underneath us.”
Mr. Trump’s advisers and allies have often blamed external events for his most self-destructive acts, such as his repeated outbursts during the two-year investigation into his campaign’s dealings with Russia. Now, there is no such explanation — and, so far, there have been exceedingly few successful interventions regarding Mr. Trump’s behavior at the podium.
Representative Tom Cole, Republican of Oklahoma, said the president had to change his tone and offer more than a campaign of grievance.
“You got to have some hope to sell people,” Mr. Cole said. “But Trump usually sells anger, division and ‘we’re the victim.’”
There are still more than six months until the election, and many Republicans are hoping that the dynamics of the race will shift once Mr. Biden is thrust back into the campaign spotlight. At that point, they believe, the race will not simply be the up-or-down referendum on the president it is now, and Mr. Trump will be able to more effectively sell himself as the person to rebuild the economy.
Homeboken – so you want pissing on only one part of the swimming pool and assume it’s clean everywhere else? What is your point?
Here is the issue, there is no way I would ever vote for Teump. But another point is that I would never be caught voting for a fcukhead like Biden. So WTF am I supposed to do?
RentL0rd says:
April 26, 2020 at 5:32 pm
The “Don’t vote” guys are the strongest closet Trump supporters.
Chgo It’s obvious you are a secret Trump supporter. That appears to be the narrative for many.
Chi – There is this proverbial puzzle you may want to answer first. Not the best analogy, but close enough –
There’s a fast moving train with a 1000 people that’s going to run off a cliff. Everyone onboard are gonna die. If there was a guy near the tracks that you could push in front of the train – killing him, but saving the 1000 aboard, would you?
The point is – it’s not about you or what you believe in, but the final outcome is what matters.
Imagine the next pandemic.
Let’s imagine the virus needs very dry air and heat to spread. Areas like Las Vegas and Phoenix get crushed. NYC in the other hand has relatively mild cases, some death but a fraction of what they have in the desert.
Do you think NYC would shut down for 1 minute? Not a chance
You are going to see this playout in the fall. Some states will have to shut down while others refuse to. NJ is not in a good place. Major budgetary issues are going to be showing their head due to lack of revenue and Mitch McConnell has already said he doesn’t want to help. Just remember Texas voting us down on Sandy aid and then begging two years later when Texas was ravaged by a hurricane. It’s not going to be pretty.
I have a feeling the fed is going to be looking to bail everyone out.
Rent – your analogy doesn’t ring clear to me, I don’t get your point. My point is, if I’m forced to swim in a piss pool, I’d like to get the guys pissing in it to leave the water. I don’t care what their political affiliation is, I want people to swim in my pool that understand not to piss in it (or rape anyone or wear blackface, etc)
8:17 Thanks for shining a light on that behavior.
Frankly, as members of the States that givith’ the most,
To those that literally hate us, unless they decide to relocate to the coast.
Then they become us. Blue wave.
‘boken – the point is that the whole country should open up or be shut down together. There’s no solution piece-meal. This pandemic or the next. Obviously dear leader does not get it. So, let’s vote him out and be prepared for the next pandemic.
The ends do not justify the means.
RentL0rd says:
April 26, 2020 at 7:56 pm
Chi – There is this proverbial puzzle you may want to answer first. Not the best analogy, but close enough –
There’s a fast moving train with a 1000 people that’s going to run off a cliff. Everyone onboard are gonna die. If there was a guy near the tracks that you could push in front of the train – killing him, but saving the 1000 aboard, would you?
The point is – it’s not about you or what you believe in, but the final outcome is what matters.
I don’t understand. What is the outcome to which you refer?
Because bottom line it is not clear which candidate is going to be better for the country.
Biden is not ready to be in charge.
The only way you can argue that Biden is a good choice is if he never is inaugurated and instead hands the office off to someone else
RentL0rd says:
April 26, 2020 at 7:56 pm
Chi –
The point is – it’s not about you or what you believe in, but the final outcome is what matters.
Patients at N.J. hospitals drops to 3-week low
https://www.nj.com/coronavirus/2020/04/coronavirus-updates-unemployment-website-problems-patients-at-nj-hospitals-drops-to-3-week-low-what-you-need-to-know-april-26-2020.html
The curve is sufficiently bent.
There ought to be a cliffhanger movie where one man’s vote will decide if 50,000 people live or die.
Stanley: How can you justify all this?
Gabriel: You’re not looking at the big picture Stan. Here’s a scenario. You have the power to cure all the world’s diseases but the price for this is that you must kill a single innocent child, could you kill that child Stanley?
Stanley: No.
Gabriel: You disappoint me, it’s the greatest good.
Stanley: Well how about 10 innocents?
Gabriel: Now you’re gettin’ it, how about a hundred – how about a THOUSAND? Not to save the world but to preserve our way of life.
Stanley: No man has the right to make that decision; you’re no different from any other terrorist.
Gabriel: No, you’re wrong Stanley. Thousands die every day for no reason at all, where’s your bleeding heart for them? You give your twenty dollars to Greenpeace every year thinking you’re changing the world?
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0244244/quotes/?tab=qt&ref_=tt_trv_qu
Joyce, life is nothing more than choices. The choices eventually describe who you are as a person. For some, the right choice is to kill that one child for the greater good. For others, the right choice is to try and save each and every life when presented with the choice.
Which choice would you make?
I wouldn’t kill the innocent child.
(Only posted that because RentLord said there should be a movie, etc… not exactly what they asked for but it made me think of that scene)
Anyone want to guess what gas taxes will be in NJ since the gas tax is ratcheted to use to make sure the state doesn’t lose revenue regardless of gas prices?
$5, $10, $15/gallon?
“Got my sars-cov-2 antibody test this morning.”
Why? I thought Yerba Santa was the antidote?
Not hearing too much about the aquarium cleaner cure. What happened?
And in some cases, that can mean letting minor infractions — like tinted windows or a broken taillight — go.
https://www.nj.com/coronavirus/2020/03/yes-police-are-still-giving-tickets-amid-coronavirus-outbreak.html
As if we needed more evidence that there’s a ton of laws on the books that we don’t need (and non essential government employees, too).
Lib,
You can raise gas taxes to 50%. Doesn’t matter because the Russian mafia collects and doesn’t remit those taxes. Only sheep like us pay taxes and get vaccines.
Regardless,
This isn’t going back to normal. This virus kills the frail and the unlucky but there will be another one coming in the future that will kill millions.
The thing about liberals that irritates me is that they cant deal with reality. Their decision making is like a childs. Tell me one thing. Why is Bill Gates so into vaccines?
I love his business model. Create the problem and profit off the cure then distribute money to global organizations serving his agenda under the umbrella of philanthropy.
Follow the money and you will find the truth. In the meantime stop believing in unicorns sh_tting skittles out of the sky.
I received an $85 ticket for parking in the wrong parking lot in Palisades Interstate Park during the early days when things were open. Apparently, I parked in the cars with boats only dock on an overcast and quiet Wednesday afternoon.
“The curve is sufficiently bent.”
Take off the masks and go back to spitting on everyone else.
When you pass that test then I agree with you. Masks, even simple ones, help quite a bit.
We shall see.
I am still alive, and I am still taking my herbal pills, as is my dad, and a decent number of my friends and relatives. I read the study, I understand the science. The risk is infinitesimally small, the cost absurdly low, and even if it’s a long shot, the outcome in that case is enormous. The probability weighted outcome makes it a great hedge for me. Nobody is going to take the time to do conformational studies on a herbal product at this point, maybe not now, maybe never. By the way, the study I referenced is now being cited in other studies, it’s not bullshit science (Potential Treatments for COVID-19 – https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7085862/ ), and was previously studied as an antiviral (it belongs to a class of antiviral flavanoids – https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4373826/ ) Keep in mind… It’s not actually a cure, the best it would do is reduce active viral load. There are studies that show chloroquine reduces active viral load. For example, lets be a-political and take something from years ago, far before this (2006 – from the very respected Lancet – https://www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-3099(06)70361-9/fulltext ) The question isn’t whether it is effective, the question is whether it is effective enough, and effective if used late. I think what we’re going to find is that for the later case, there is no cure.
It’s the same story with a number of drugs that were discussed. Are they curative? Hard to answer, I suppose it depends. If my elderly loved one was in the hospital, I’d demand the fish tank drug be given as early as possible, regardless or not whether it came out of Trump’s mouth. Sure, dispensing medical advice like pez is a dangerous game to play, but so is the politicization of a drug. Why? Because the probability weighted return is astronomical. Look, Trump should have kept his dumb mouth shut from the start. Why he thinks anyone is expecting him to come up with a cure is beyond me, yet he thinks it’s somehow his responsibility. However, God forbid Trump names a cure, because America might prefer to die out of spite.
Saw similar ridicule out of the DHS study on UV light as a potential disinfectant for outdoor surfaces – which is a hugely positive if confirmed. This is the kind of information that is critical to understand if we can safely open parks, playgrounds, without huge fear of having to disinfect huge areas all day long. So Trump twists the study into something it’s not, but then the media, instead of correcting this, twists it even so much further from reality, that now it’s moot. If sars-cov-2 on surfaces outdoors is inactivated in as fast as 3 minutes, it no longer matters, the fact has been made toxic. Is this a cure for people with covid-19? No, f$ck no, but it means I don’t have to worry about the f*cking slide, or the bench, or the railing.
We are our worst enemy.
Please let me know when the media will be outraged by this gem. Let’s invite asymptomatic carriers right into our poorly staffed and protected assisted care facilities. What could go wrong?
https://www.nj.com/coronavirus/2020/04/nj-coronavirus-patients-with-developmental-disabilities-must-be-allowed-a-visitor-at-hospital-state-says.html
The health commissioner’s latest order ensures patients with developmental and intellectual disabilities can have a family member, personal care provider or a service provider at their bedside.
…
A second support person may be permitted if the hospital has enough personal protective equipment and determines another individual is necessary, the guidance says.
“Take off the masks and go back to spitting on everyone else. When you pass that test then I agree with you. Masks, even simple ones, help quite a bit. We shall see.”
Interesting empirical statement given only two of 50 states require public masks. Even more interesting empirically since the best authority (Fauci) states that it cannot yet be determined if contracting the virus confers immunity, ie. if it doesn’t the tests don’t matter.
“We are our worst enemy.”
The genesis of my statement over five weeks ago that I will gladly use my common sense and logic applied to the latest knowledge and data to best navigate this situation.
Not really sure which source I would trust the least…MSM or a politician.
If contracting the virus doesn’t confer immunity, the hope for a vaccine plummets dramatically, if not entirely. Pray tell, by what mechanism does a vaccine work if antibodies are not effective?
I don’t understand how anyone could hold those two views simultaneously, they are incompatible.
You either have hope: Antibodies confer immunity, and by leveraging that antibody immunity, we can develop a vaccine.
or
You have no hope: Antibodies do not confer immunity, thus a vaccine can not be developed.
Yes, yes, yes, I understand how science works. But we’re not talking about peer reviewed studies and methodological debate, we’re talking about communication with the American public. “We don’t have evidence” is very different from “it doesn’t work” – but somehow though media interpretation – these are becoming the same thing.
World Health Organization still doesn’t recommend wearing masks, what am I missing? They didn’t before, they don’t now.
They are very clear, there is no evidence that wearing masks has any benefit.
“Such immunity is often short-lived, requires frequent boosting and may not prevent re-infection, all factors complicating CoV vaccine design.
Unfortunately, despite long-term efforts, effective vaccines to prevent enteric CoV infections remain elusive.”
Not going to be an easy vaccine to make. But who knows. Controlling the symptoms and effects may be the answer. Or antibodies. Time will tell.
So the curve is bent. Why? Was it the social distancing and the masks, or did this virus just run it’s course? Take off the masks and go back to normal, you will find out soon enough. Bottom line is that it has an affinity for overweight older males.
It would be nice if the parks would open back up.
Agree with everything you say grim. Only footnote I would add – noting I am in the deep end of the pool scientifically now – is that there may be similarity to the flu vaccine with some but limited efficacy.
Fauci had one (of his usual) very good conferences where he addressed these issues. He stated they have identified two strains through sequencing the virus genome. Further said they do not know whether one is more aggressive than another although they intend to study the strains v. outcomes to try to determine.
Don’t have time to google which presser but Scott Gottlieb (another qualified neutral source) addressed same on CBS Sunday Morning yesterday.
Bottom line I am assuming and preparing that this will be with us for a long time. Key question for me is the degree to which it can be effectively contained or treated (eg, HIV v flu/common cold)
“They are very clear, there is no evidence that wearing masks has any benefit.”
probably because most people touch their faces with dirty hands when applying/removing their masks – thus actually increasing transfer of viral particles to their faces, plus they are reused again and again without proper disinfection.
All it takes is one break in technique to become infected, it’s operator error. So the WHO is probably right.
Yeah, but the WHO and CDC both admitted they made the statements to limit purchases and hoarding of masks by the public, not because they aren’t effective, or have been shown to be effective in other outbreaks in the past.
And if masks don’t work against germs and viruses, then wearing them around TB patients and using them for surgical procedures is a waste of time as well.
We know they are effective, we know they work, they likely have substantial benefit even if misused. There is plenty science and fact based reasoning for this. I would go even further and say that by wearing a mask, even if the mask itself is ineffective, you put the person into a more aware psychological state, where they pay more attention to their actions, etc. So you have this kind of placebo benefit. Y’all tell me, if you go into a retail store, and put on that mask, you are telling me your mindset isn’t completely changed? Pretty sure it is.
Point I’m making is that it’s pretty clear that it’s not just politicians who are playing scientists, there are plenty of scientists playing politics now too.
So when the WHO says that there is no evidence that having covid makes someone immune. Are they playing scientist or politics, because it’s not so clear anymore.
“All it takes is one break in technique to become infected, it’s operator error.”
“And if masks don’t work…using them for surgical procedures is a waste of time as well.”
Correct on both counts which leads me to the conclusion that widespread use is counterproductive.
Masks work in a surgical setting exactly because all sterile procedures are followed. Absolutely impossible for the public.
Perfect world procedure doesn’t always carry over to real world execution. Usually doesn’t.
“All it takes is one break in technique to become infected, it’s operator error.”
The effectiveness of this statement has not been proven. We have no evidence that clearly points to the number of sars-cov-2 particles necessary to infect an individual.
WTF? We need Spock at the end of Wrath of Khan….
Choices says:
April 26, 2020 at 11:13 pm
Joyce, life is nothing more than choices. The choices eventually describe who you are as a person. For some, the right choice is to kill that one child for the greater good. For others, the right choice is to try and save each and every life when presented with the choice.
Which choice would you make?
Re: politics and science….watch as I do everyday Cuomo and Murphy pressers.
Very interesting their hard U-Turn over the weekend….Both now looking at May 15 dates for certain openings from ‘indefinite’, both much more pliable to concerns over work/virus balance.
Meanwhile, absolutely zero changed in breakthrough news or trends in those 48 hours….Well, there must have been some good scientific basis…Surely their decisions couldn’t have been influenced by news reels of hundreds of Californians – laid back Californians! – flipping Newsom the bird and heading to the beach. Or the thousands – yes, thousands – converging on the Capitol in Madison WI (which is effectively the Greenwich Village of the Midwest)….
Nahhhh…..It’s all about our well being guys….LOLOLOL.
BTW as I type this Murphy on CNBC in response to a direct question specifically says he is not looking for Fed assistance on pre-existing conditions like the pension shortfalls there when he took office.
Like I said 100x.
Governors are currently facing a choice.
Laying off tens of thousands of teachers or reopening the economy.
Which do you think a politician is going to choose? All that science mumbo jumbo goes out the window when public opinion is at stake.
I personally think that Cuomo jumped the gun had his Sunday presser because NJ was pushing back.
What happened to the coordinated, multistate response to opening?
We already know that Murphy is clear that NJ will take the most conservative approach possible. I bet NY/NJ were butting heads on this.
Let’s see how much of a divergence Murphy’s plan is from Cuomo’s, and you’ll have your evidence.
“Like I said 100x.”
I agree with you brother. At 8:35a as well.
Just can’t stop SMH on all those “we need our politicians to lead us” types.
Like I’ve said previously, the equivalent of giving a drunk the keys to my convertible. No thanks, I’ll drive myself.
“Like I said 100x.
Governors are currently facing a choice.
Laying off tens of thousands of teachers or reopening the economy.
Which do you think a politician is going to choose? All that science mumbo jumbo goes out the window when public opinion is at stake.”
Agreed. It’s the economy, stupid.
“Even more interesting empirically since the best authority (Fauci) states that it cannot yet be determined if contracting the virus confers immunity, ie. if it doesn’t the tests don’t matter.”
I think this kind of gets to Grim’s point here. Fauci cant state with 100% certainty that it confers immunity but he, along with many others are confident it does. The verbiage they use is a hedge because it’s always more nuanced than black and white.
https://www.newsweek.com/fauci-really-confident-people-recover-coronavirus-become-immune-infection-1494612
“So it’s never 100 percent, but I’d be willing to bet anything that people who recover are really protected against re-infection.””
Its the same thing I see about discussions around warmer climates. Articles I see always have a headline along the lines of “warmer temperatures will not kill coronavirus”. But when you read a little about it its true that warmer temperature will not kill it completely but all evidence points to a positive effect on reducing transmission. Since the exact effect cant be stated people hedge on their pronouncements.
“All it takes is one break in technique to become infected, it’s operator error.”
“The effectiveness of this statement has not been proven. We have no evidence that clearly points to the number of sars-cov-2 particles necessary to infect an individual.”
I stand by my statement. One break in technique at the wrong time and one could get a very large dose of pathogens quite easily.
If you have enough virus particles on the mask to infect you, you are probably already infected.
Think about it.
What happened to grim this morning?
He posted at almost a Pumpkinian velocity.
The main contrast is that I had to read all of it
Booya. Boycott open houses.
“Correct on both counts which leads me to the conclusion that widespread use is counterproductive.”
Maybe. But if someone is going to walk around a supermarket coughing on everything I would prefer they have a mask on..
Grim is right. My wife has the N95 mask and I have an MSA filter respirator. I look like Darth Vader or Bain walking through the store. I’ve noticed people are willing to keep a further distance from me when I wear that, than when I wear an N95 mask. It is psychological and more symbolic of people practicing social distancing.
There is the flipside, when you see the ahole that has the mask on but it’s only covering their mouth, not their nose, you know they don’t give a shit and make sure you stay away from them. Same goes for the ahole that walks into a store without a mask for takeout.
re: Vaccine. The first Human test subjects are 45 healthy adults age 18 to 55 years out in Seattle. Moderna mRNA-1273, Neat stuff they are trying to mimic what our bodies do naturally in our cell’s which is make spike proteins. I don’t think it has ever worked however. Results should be out soon.
China just released a study using old fashioned inactivated virus in monkeys. Seems to have worked. I bet they will move to Human Trials relatively quickly.
Not hearing too much about the aquarium cleaner cure. What happened?
You won’t hear about it anymore. The media has moved on to new manufactured outrage. The last I heard, they pointed to a study where they claimed people receiving the chlorine had a higher fatality rate. But when you looked at the study, they clearly administered the drug to a group that was more sick. I guess double blind studies are only necessary to draw conclusions when convenient.
As I said before, we don’t know the effectiveness of the drugs and we won’t for a while. In the meantime, they are a low risk option and it is completely unscientific to doubt that a drug that attacks viral replication mechanisms in general is worth trying.
Mask and Gloves? Estimates are there are millions of recovered in the NY Metro area. That means lots of carriers too.
Every-time you go to the store you bring home all kinds of Bacteria and Viruses including Covid19, it cannot be avoided, maybe if you hit everything with Bleach and UV lights, and that is a Maybe.
Your only hope is low viral load at this point, and herd immunity.
These docs from Kern County California are a good watch.
https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1254495050228260865
Grim
Are you still taking elderberry and oil of oregano?
I’m taking elderberry and medicinal mushrooms. Lots of studies on antiviral benefits of some mushroom types.
Also taking turmeric with bioprene.
Much hyperbole and conjecture on this forum… I want answers!! ;)
Do you take elderberry every day?
Blue – confirmation bias on both sides of the debate. There will be for a long time. The NY doctor at Kiras Joel who started this whole thing Dr. Vladimir Zelenko has said the study was done only on people on deaths door that were intubated. Have to catch it early etc.
I was able to score some Yerba Santa from a distributor in Florida. It’s not easy to find these days.
Bad news, seems Remdesivir does not work!
https://www.statnews.com/2020/04/23/data-on-gileads-remdesivir-released-by-accident-show-no-benefit-for-coronavirus-patients/
A ticket from a stereotypical NJ agency that shouldn’t exist (PIP PD).
BoomerRemover says:
April 27, 2020 at 1:50 am
I received an $85 ticket for parking in the wrong parking lot in Palisades Interstate Park during the early days when things were open. Apparently, I parked in the cars with boats only dock on an overcast and quiet Wednesday afternoon.
Judging from the traffic right now, NJ has already decided on reopening.
Juice,
There is a new drug that has been tested and actually works called Provasic. There is going to be a podcast on it today by Dr Richard Kimble.
Elizabeth Holmes, who led the testing along with her researcher Annie Dookan will explain their results.
Turing pharmaceuticals is the manufacturer of the drug, Martin Shkreli will discuss this as well and his pricing scheme.
Our fugitives name…is Doctor Richard Kimble
Phoenix – I am going to go with Chris Cuomo’s wife’s treatment plan, PEMF therapy, vitamin drip (doctor administered),and clorox baths.
Disney Execs must be smoking crack, they sent me an email EXTRA $5 OFF select tickets for 2 DAYS!! Ohhhhhh so now a 2 day Covid19 excursion park hopper ticket now cost $281.56….
Where do I sign up!
I would like to point out a bunch of opinionated crap, so have at it.
First, so much bias is clouding clear thought. I am not surprised as this always seems to be the case whenever a tragedy strikes. Though, this may be the worst I have ever witnessed it.
We all want a cure for Covid-19. One has to be borderline psychopathic if you really believe that the Dems want all of these non-proven, hope-laden ideas echoed by our infantile POTUS to fail. Perhaps Trump should ratchet down his endless stream of unproven solutions, misinterpreted as hope and sarcasm by his supporters and outright lies by his detractors. It helps absolutely NOBODY to continue to over promise and under deliver. I swear he has the mentality of a second grader. I can just see him uttering something like, “You know Joey, I bet that if we swung really hard on these swings and then let go at just the right time, we could probably fly all the way to the moon!”
On these supposed cures. There is no doubt that every medical professional, witnessing all of this death and risking their own lives many working weekly 60 to 80 hour shifts on the front lines wants to solve Covid-19 for their own safety and for the better of society. So it should come as no surprise that when a medical practitioner sees a patient recover after giving them Remdesivir, Chloroquine, Ritonavir, a Z-pack, plasma with antibodies, UV light, bleach or mother fukcin chicken soup, correlation can easily be mistaken for causation. Once again, hope (and probably a lack of proper sleep) is mistaken for science.
Sure, if there are no side effects, why not? I completely get that. But the likelihood of any of these overly obvious cures, be it from the list above, or even the less likely candidates, such as the Santa Yerbas, oregano oils, elderberry extract, etc., actually working is a pipe dream. Hate to be the only one keeping it real, but way too few do. This is why I respect the sh1t out of Joyce, even when our opinions differ.
So on reopening the country. This is obviously more political than economic at this point. I do agree that we will need to eventually adjust to living with Covid-19 as a constant enemy among us and am the last person to want to see our economy ruined. But I do expect this experiment to be a huge failure and just another case where the POTUS lacks any kind of leadership. I’ll explain why I feel this way. Let me start with an example. When D was in the hospital for much of 2015 and 2016 fighting brain cancer, we were properly trained in the use of PPE. D went through three rounds of the most toxic sh1t you could ever imagine. Then we were moved to the Bone Marrow Transplant wing for his final three rounds of stem-cell recovery chemotherapy where we essentially watched them kill nearly every living cell (good or bad) in his entire body three times. A single cough by someone with the common cold had a 1 in 4 chance of killing him during the tougher days of these rounds. You don’t really know isolation. Trust me on this one. No one should ever have to go through this. Thankfully, D got very lucky (sort of). The silver lining of all this being that we learned enough to become RNs and can better decipher the many lies floating around in regards to PPE and how best to protect oneself from the virus. So listening to all of the differing opinions shared here in regards to masks has been infuriating. But not as infuriating as watching our leaders both at the federal level and state level either continue with their intentional deception about their proper use, or lack of attempt of learning about their proper use. Both, obviously unacceptable. Yet these so-called leaders are now sending us out into the public to surely be infected to save the economy. Make no mistake, without educating the public to the proper use of masks nor providing the public with any PPE itself, we are about to witness a complete disaster that will be short-lived and will most likely have a negative impact on our economy. Just the costs alone for businesses to try to operate with the terrible guidelines created will cost much more than any revenue they will bring in as they will just be shutting down completely three weeks from now as the number begin exploding upwards again.
Now I know what most of you are thinking. We can’t shelter in place forever. I agree wholeheartedly. The government should be issuing gloves and masks. Instead of spending an hour a day on television eulogizing the dead campaign financiers (Murphy), exaggerating the poorness of the federal response (Cuomo), making a complete ass of themselves (De Blasio), or promising false hope (Trump). This time should be spent educating the public on the proper use of masks, gloves and hygiene. This is really not rocket science. This is kindergarten level stuff. How many hours of bullsh1t has been wasted with these LOOK AT ME, I’M ON CAMERA TO IMPROVE MY RATINGS press conferences.
Once you properly educate and equip the populace and make logical science-based modifications to businesses and public places so that we don’t all infect each other and overload our health care system. Then, you reopen the economy.
From my perch, it appears that states that are opening are doing it for future short-term political favor at the expense of the safety of their residents. This is deplorable. Perhaps HRC got it right? I kid.
Have at me.
Grim, you are losing my respect. Why don’t you just sit back and let the virology experts come up with researched recommendations instead of conjuring things up?
You know there are people who study viruses for a living, don’t you?
I’ll say this about your comment on immunity. Do you get immunity from the common cold virus?
Disclaimer: I’m no scientist, but married to one.
About the media – if one cannot give a coherent press conference, then they have no reason to blame the media. Stop it with blaming the media already. They are just doing their job.
So here is my take on treatments, I’ve been pretty consistent early on with my hypothesis. We will see if it plays out. The treatments using drugs that are effectively antivirals only work relatively early on, the immune system response is the big problem. Yes breathing is impacted, O2 levels fall and there is a big strain on the cardiovascular system and negatively impacts your vital organs. So what if you are healthy and do not have cardiovascular disease you will recover. All those who were in good health yet were severely sickened was the result of their own immune systems, their immune systems caused extensive lung damage and irregular clotting which has caused strokes and heart attacks even in people without severe symptoms. Once the horse has left the barn so to speak suppressants(Actemra?) and antivirals should be administered, I’m confident it will save lives.
The other issue I see is from animal sciences we have some understanding of corona virus treatments. For some reason it isn’t being taken seriously, we know for a fact that a deadly poultry corona virus, Avian IBV is inhibited by elderberry and that sh*t has no side effects(also interestingly enough vaccines are not totally effective, despite being around for a while). We also know that CCoV, the canine coronavirus(also has a vaccine that isn’t 100% effective) can effectively be treated using indomethacin and invitro it appears effective against SARS and SARS-CoV2. Why we would not try that as well, for cripes sake it’s an NSAID, unless you have contraindicators take that instead of Tylenol or Advil. We don’t know if this stuff works but there is some indication that it is at least worth a look, given that we have nothing in the arsenal right now.
We shoot shit about every day shit here, and once in a while we talk about real estate.
And generally, we’re contrarians that rarely believe experts.
Here are all of the different treatment trials being conducted. Worldwide China has the most.
https://www.covid-trials.org/
Just another way to pass the time. We are all living between hope and fear now. In the end, humankind will overcome this challenge too – but we will pay the piper..
When is NJ going to conduct an antibody study?
Home Depot’s system is incredibly stupid right now. They have all their outside plants. But if you want to buy them, you have to take them, wait in a long line to get inside, bring them inside to pay. Just use the outside register for outdoor purchases. This isn’t rocket science.
Gov Phil is punting….stay at home order in effect until further notice.
Gov Phil – NJ won’t double testing until end of May.
Gov Phil – Must have contact tracing first! Recruit and deploy army of contract tracers. Local Health Depts to run with it? 15-81 workers per 100,000 residents? 1300-7000 full time contract tracing workers needed?
Gov Phil- safe and free place for those that test positive to isolate?
Looks like school won’t be back.
Time for layoffs Gov Phil! all non-essential government workers need to get the pink slip now.
Rentlord, here is the deal on immunity and vaccines with Corona viruses it seems. Between mutation and the bodies response any immunity doesn’t seem to be long lasting. No on e has even identified all of the different viral strains causing the common cold it’s a big constantly evolving target. It would not surprise me to find out that a year or 2 after having COVID you no longer have antibodies and who knows if the latest strain even triggers the same antibody response.
Here’s my thought on if you’ve previously had it. If you had a severe case, I’d worry about contracting it again otherwise if you were sick and recovered I expect the subsequent case to be the same or even less pronounced. I’m pretty certain I had it, it was not fun but it lasted something like 11 days with only 3 days of extreme discomfort. Getting it again vs. staying locked in like this is a no brainer.
Proves my point, he wouldn’t go along with Cuomo.
Watching this, it’s 100% clear.
I may or may not have information about a large contact tracing program done for a non-US country.
Based on the size of that program, first pass US contact tracing program might need 10,000 employees, that’s preliminary, starting point.
That’s based on high level automation that may or may not be executed with Apple/Google.
Experts told us to follow a low fat high carb diet. Diabetes and obesity rates have since tripled.
We were also told the air was safe to breathe at ground zero
We were told in Feb of this year to go to Chinatown and the risks of CCP virus in this country were very low.
They are now telling us to shelter in place, social distance, and wear masks after telling us masks are ineffective and the virus isn’t airborne.
Instead of telling us to eat certain foods and take supplements that have proven studies that show they can boost the immune system and prevent or at least lower the severity of diseases the experts are focusing on vaccines and trying out existing drugs on seriously ill patients. Why? Probably because big Pharma and big medicine can’t make much money off of multivitamins and supplements and slinging Swiss chard and cara cara oranges to the masses.
So what do you think the infection numbers are going to do in the states that are reopening? Just curious what everyone thinks? I will provide four options.
1) They will go higher than the former (initial) peak.
2) They will return to the former peak.
3) They will increase but not as strongly as the former peak.
4) They will continue to go down at the current rate.
Just curious to know where people stand in their trade-off between the economy and infection rate?
I’ll go first. I’m firmly in camp 1. New highs. Due to inadequate preparation. With it, then number 3.
3
What statistic will we use for peak?
cumulative positive tests (they can only go up)
cumulative deaths (same)
shortage of hospital or ICU beds?
daily or 3 day average of net hospitalizations?
Interesting stats for NJ. 253 deaths under the age of 50.
Check out the Demographics tab.
https://covid19.nj.gov/#live-updates
3, but using hospitalizations.
infection rate (diagnosis) is not comparable over time due to different testing rates and populations
3 but death rate will continue downward trend as treatment continues to improve.
Option 0.
Given the correct time line. We all gonna die.
Should also mention, as an out of stater in a less populated state, we are nooooooo way anyyyyyy where near the numbers originally predicted for my state.
More people were killed by stupidity in the outdoors then this disease had claimed so far. I’ve got to say option 4 at this point for my region.
hold my beer, bingo when there is no money to be made they aren’t interested. They also do not seem to want to entertain any kind of early treatment. The issue with experts is they do not acknowledge how little they truly know and they blindly follow a religion of science/statistical math. Which granted is a very valuable tool but there is more than a little leeway on most drug studies, you can design studies that appear rigorous but actually are designed to favor a certain outcome…..
Don’t hold your breath for the vaccine…
“From my perch, it appears that states that are opening are doing it for future short-term political favor at the expense of the safety of their residents.”
Residents informed of risk don’t need a nanny state making decisions for them in any aspect of their lives.
We do it every day by ourselves.
38,000 people will die and over two million will be injured in over 5 million automobile crashes in an average year.
Yet, as a society, we accept that death:economic tradeoff because making all the cars “stay at home” has too high an economic cost.
As individuals, we each decide for ourselves the level of incremental risk we are willing to take. Many people won’t drive in the snow. Some not at night in the rain. Some people won’t go into central park after dusk. Varies by individuals. They are fully capable of assessing their own risk.
I truly do not need anyone evaluating what is ‘best’ for me…least of all some political hack.
And, before you answer, keep in mind….in the history of epidemics this is the first time a society has quarantined the HEALTHY population with demonstrable immunity rather than quarantining the diseased and at-risk population.
Joyce,
I would use the daily number of new cases (ignoring outliers). For example, NJ peaked at around 4,000 per day. New York State peaked around 10,000 cases.
Georgia peaked around 1,000. Colorado around 500, though the recent 1,000 numbers are looking less like an anomaly.
Yeah, I should have been more clear.
The problem is that 6,000 people is very few…… what is the endgame? 25,000? That is still very few. Especially when these people represent some of the least productive people in society…….. I have no ax to grind. I’m pretty neutral to any outcome.
It’s a harsh statement to make, and for that I apologize. We should channel our rage again the Chinese Government, not each other.
If I were 45 and under, and being fcuked yet again by the locusts, I would think that this decision is a no brainer…….. how about a trade for millennials…. every day you social distance we take $250 off your student loans…..
leftwing,
Disregarding what I believe to be a false equivalency in your argument. Where are you headed out to first?
And point of clarification. No one had immunity. Just different abilities to survive it.
Nothing personal Leftwing, but you claim, “Residents informed of risk don’t need a nanny state making decisions for them in any aspect of their lives.”
So we should be able to drive without car insurance, not pay social security, choose not be educated and walk around buck naked?
Assuming testing capacity increases and states expand/encourage testing of asymptotic people, option 3 definitely but could easily be 2 or 1. Not trying to cop out from answering, but take NJ … a few thousand new cases a day the last several days, net hospitalization is decreasing and fewer daily deaths.
I just watched Murphy highly risk contaminating himself. He took off his mask with his bare (unsanitized) hands touching both the inside and the outside simultaneously. Then he reached into his pocket and put his glasses on. Next he straightened his pocket square. Sad really.
“Disregarding what I believe to be a false equivalency in your argument. Where are you headed out to first?”
Ahh, the last refuge of the nanny state vs. facts, claims of false equivalency…No false equivalency here. Every single day, multiple times, each citizen makes an implicit risk:reward decision for many activities. Ever run a yellow changing to red light? Run across a busy street against the light? Yes, drive in inclement weather? Hit 85 mph on a highway? Please explain why a decision to go out during this virus is immune from the same individual risk:reward framework? Hell, the authorities acknowledge the framework implicitly, by implementing and ultimately removing lockdowns. Risk:reward. Individual and it matters.
“And point of clarification. No one had immunity. Just different abilities to survive it.”
Point taken, I misstated and should have said this is first time in epidemic history that demonstrably low-risk HEALTHY cohorts have been quarantined rather than quarantining the diseased or at-risk population from healthy individuals.
lib I’m continually amazed at how people are acting in public with the masks. They need to put out some remedial videos. Wash or sanitize before removing and after removing. Don’t take your highly contaminated hands and put them by your face, not only ignorance but no common sense either. But that’s consistent of what we know about bucktooth murphy…..how he made 100 million I’ll never understand.
Joyce,
So you feel that our efforts to socially separate aren’t doing much? Or do you have faith in the public to correctly use PPE to keep infection rates down enough to match the effects of shelter in place?
Though perhaps 1/5th of the population has antibodies, I doubt this combined with going from physically separating, to hardly separating at all will be strong enough to stop the curve from increasing less than before.
If our hospital system could hardly handle the impact in New York with physical separation. How is a hospital built for the Georgian population not going to be overwhelmed when nearly no social separation is occurring?
I just don’t see it. I do hope I’m wrong.
1:58 you just described most red state residents.
1:53 I have to return some video tapes:
https://youtu.be/vzN3qO-qc8U
JCER, I ask myself that every time he speaks. Then again, I’ve never met a hedge fund manager (and I have met probably 20 of them now) that I felt was terribly intelligent. Aggressive, direct and opinionated, yes. Smart, never. Yet somehow, lots of rich guys pit a lot faith in them.
There was this one guy who joined my investment club. We did a three year stock picking contest. He came in last place. Now he runs a hedge fund. I wish I knew, but I have no clue how he is doing.
Left,
Okay, not a false equivalency. Just a terrible assessment of benefit vs. risk on your part. :P
Some people choose to skydive off buildings for kicks.
“So we should be able to drive without car insurance, not pay social security, choose not be educated and walk around buck naked?”
Car insurance: NYS had during my time the ability to self insure. Insurance through a commercial entity was not required.
Social Security: Relatively new concept historically speaking. Previously, yes, if you were not responsible to save for yourself (drumroll….) you went hungry. i personally don’t have an issue with that.
Education: Really, with the student loan crisis you really want to take the stance that more education is better for everyone? Shall we re-open the discussion from the last crisis about the merits of getting every US resident into homeownership?
Naked. If we are talking societal norms, yeah, there are few people in town I’d want to see unclothed. But, if we are assuming it is socially acceptable looking at it purely from a risk:reward perspective then, yes, I ought to be able to decide if it is worth no tan lines vs. a crow mistaking my little Irish wanker for dinner for the chicklings.
Lib, LOL, love ya buddy.
No deaths under 18 in nj(tri state?) is both astonishing and miraculous. That fact should frame all decision making going forward.
Never in history of the have the young and healthy been sacrificed for the old and sick. Keeping parks closed is asinine. How many geriatrics you see out there jogging?
It also raises the question I would like answered. How many of the deaths would have happened without covid?
Ohio announces reopening in phases, May 1-May 12. Starts with dental, etc last is retail.
Some people choose to skydive off buildings for kicks.
87% of people who perform this sport live in blue states.
I’ll say it again: An algorithm of BMI and IQ needs to be calculated. If you fall below a certain threshold, it’s quarantine for you until further notice.
So you are in for the rest of the year?
And when we reopen are all the ignorant shits going to continue to throw their used gloves on the street, on people’s front lawns etc?
Stole this from somewhere else…
There are two main reasons for the affects of COVID-19:
1) The population is too dense
2) The population is too dense
So you are in for the rest of the year?
At bare minimum… maybe two!
I might as well sell my cars.
Now Main Street’s whitewashed windows and vacant stores
Seems like there ain’t nobody wants to come down here no more
They’re closing down the textile mill across the railroad tracks
Foreman says these jobs are going boys and they ain’t coming back to your hometown
Chi,
You should target your anger towards the US federal and state government. The Chinese warned CDC about an unknown pneumonia on 1/3. They published the genome on 1/11. They locked down Wuhan on 1/23. Most people in our area got the virus from European connections not from Chinatown.
Essex beat me to it
“Fat Fast Eddie says:
So you are in for the rest of the year?
At bare minimum… maybe two!”
LOL
Rage, the chinese were busy telling us it was nothing major and they weren’t even sure it was transmittable person to person. Was this before or after arresting/killing/disappearing the whistle blowers? How about in Wuhan the fact that they didn’t suspend travel and had 5m people traveling from during this outbreak(think about that for a second, that’s a lot of people many of whom were exposed)? Do you know where Italy got it? How about the silent outbreak in January in NYC and NNJ did that come from Italy?
Did state and federal governments majorly bungle the response, yes but again the cat was already out of the bag before they realized what they were dealing with. I’m not sure a better response would have had the huge impact on fatalities, again even in places where appropriate measures were taken(Italy) it took carnage for people to actually obey the orders. Here it has not been terribly different some still flaunt the order.
Also there is still the possibility that this was a lab accident, they do research on bats at the Wuhan Institute of Virology. Then consider if it did come from the wet market, why has China not reformed these place to adhere to modern levels of sanitary operation?
TX releasing details of their reopening currently, many businesses May 1
Rage You need to check your time line, outlined nicely in both the Wall Street Journal and Washington Post. The Chinese government is lying sack of shit!
Interesting stats for NJ. 253 deaths under the age of 50.
How many of the 253 under 50 were in long term care or hospice? Given the fact that 48% of NJ covid deaths were in long-term care facilities, I’d wager a guess at it being far north of 50%.
They always have been, but you gotta figure we have a spy or two there.
Speaking of spies, did anyone else watch the series finale to Homeland? It was pretty good. Sorry to see the show go.
The China apologists need to wake up. Their government is toxic. The last major government to round up a religious minority numbering in the millions was 1930’s Germany. At that time they too had lots of apologists. I’m not a big fan of Islam but I recognize what they are doing to those people is incredibly wrong. So please spare me, China lied about the virus and people died as a result, people like Bill Gates extolling what a wonderful job China did in containing the virus are disgusting. Some of the research done by Chinese scientists and doctors has been tremendously helpful and the sacrifice born by individual chinese doctors has been impressive but the government response of manipulating numbers and trying to bury what happened has not.
The sooner China can liberate itself from it’s current regime the better.
Sterile technique for PPE usage?
In what universe?
Are you really being serious? I fear you massively overestimate the ability of the average human.
Guess Red state governors actually do read the NYT opinion pages….
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/24/opinion/coronavirus-lockdown.html
Texas is giving permission. reopening malls, restaurants, retail stores, and movie theaters, libraries at 25% occupancy starting May 1st. If no spike in corona cases other businesses can reopen and occupancy can be increased to 50%.
Governor says it is permission, not a requirement that they reopen.
https://www.wfaa.com/article/news/health/coronavirus/phase-1-of-reopening-texas-begins-friday-governor-says/287-45ff1dcd-dd78-4419-af21-0d9edfd558d4
That’s no spike of cases in two weeks than more businesses can reopen and occupancy can be increased to 50%
“Governor says it is permission, not a requirement that they reopen.”
Agree, I presume that is the same in all states. Can’t imagine the government has the right to force someone to open a private place of business. At least not yet.
I really feel bad for the Chinese doctors. They have been on the front lines and tried to warn everyone. What do they get for it? Death or a jail cell. I feel for the Chinese people. They tried to rise up and demand democracy. Their government ran through them with tanks.
Btw…it should be noted that Taiwan was under a totalitarian regime as well. They chose to peacefully convert to democracy and flourished.
Time to head to Whole Foods, running low on fresh veggies and well booze! I won’t be able to count on both hands and maybe even both feet how many 65+ seniors are toying with the grim reaper while they are lazily feeling up the fruits and veggies. I may even head over to the dreaded Shoprite that was plague filled even before Covid19.
Repeat after me. I am not going to touch myself. I am not going to touch myself. I am not going to touch myself! Boo-ya!
leftwing, I question the government’s ability to legally do what it has already done. If we were dealing with MERS or something incredibly lethal maybe but given the current virus it is hard to justify government closures of all types of things without real data to back it up.
Go ahead and name any major war in history..
Young people don’t benefit from war, but old people with power do.
FakeNewsHoaxes says:
April 27, 2020 at 2:46 pm
No deaths under 18 in nj(tri state?) is both astonishing and miraculous. That fact should frame all decision making going forward.
Never in history of the have the young and healthy been sacrificed for the old and sick. Keeping parks closed is asinine. How many geriatrics you see out there jogging?
It also raises the question I would like answered. How many of the deaths would have happened without covid?
Democrats won’t criticize China, but scream about Russian interference in our election and it’s a brutal dictatorship etc.
Juice what I think is hilarious is I’ve been going out weekly. Younger folks are cautious the elderly don’t give a f*ck. They walk too close to people, they are taking their masks off to adjust, etc. It’s almost as if they don’t care and if the virus takes them out they are ok with it, or they live under a rock!
I think I will start venturing out a bit next week. Will get takeout fried chicken from Raising Cain’s chicken fingers. All they make is chicken fingers, French fries, toast, and coleslaw (don’t know anyone who likes the coleslaw) and they only have one sauce. Will still avoid going to Walmart and western grocery stores. I will go to Asian grocery stores though. They tend to be less crowded on weekdays compared to Walmart and half of the workers and some of the customers were wearing masks before Corona so I won’t run into any corona truthers.
3b I’d feel safer living in Russia than in China but I’d rather not live in either. USA, Canada, UK, Western Europe, Japan, South Korea are fine. I feel like the government in Russia becomes a bigger problem the more money you have for regular folks it is probably not as intrusive. China I feel has a more effective surveillance state.
Regarding masks, the purpose is to protect you from me infecting you via droplets. To catch my sneeze or cough and prevent spread. This is not about me wearing a mask to prevent you from infecting me. It is designed to create a culture in which we all wear masks and it is normal. This is why a modified tee shirt or a bandanna is sufficient. It is only to catch droplets.
In the states with the aggressive opening policies, I am curious how they will deal with the likely surge in infections, hospital admissions and deaths. Will they return to stay at home orders and social distancing? Will they just keep going and ignore the impact? How will the population react despite what the government chooses?
The likelihood of covid-19 just disappearing looks like a longshot!
Jersey shore is going to be locals only with social distancing. Opening Memorial Day. Sucks to be in north jersey!
Link on the shore for summer 2020? Can only find current closures in search
Juice – if you want to be real safe, go early in the morning. Be the first to run in… and out.
Here’s my protocol:
Wear a mask and latex gloves and weather proof jacket. Follow typical lab protocols with gloves.. disposing them off without ever touching the outside. Hand sanitizer ON the gloves is not a bad idea as well.
Set up a table in the garage for wipe down before stuff gets indoors.
Jackets, shoes come off in the garage and stay there overnight.
And jump into the shower without loitering downstairs.
Good luck with the adventure
-Mr. Paranoid
Zero faith in the majority of people to correctly use PPE the majority of time – myself included. I do not think the social separation is doing that much. The major vectors are LTC and hospitals – where the most vulnerable and/or sick people continue to go.
Libturd says:
April 27, 2020 at 2:16 pm
Joyce,
So you feel that our efforts to socially separate aren’t doing much? Or do you have faith in the public to correctly use PPE to keep infection rates down enough to match the effects of shelter in place?
Just another bubble..
Almost entire market has dumped into stocks that it thinks will be fine through this crisis. The stock market is one big psychological/emotional roller coaster that will almost never be rational in its approach. Too many people chasing the same damn thing…endless bubbles that pop, and re-inflate.
“The Stock Market Hasn’t Been This Concentrated Since the Tech Bubble. What That Means.
One fifth of the S&P 500’s market cap is accounted for by five big tech companies, marking the highest level of concentration for the index since the 2000 tech bubble, when equity market concentration stood at 18%, Goldman Sachs says.”
Jcer I don’t believe Russia is built on world domination as is China. China as in the government wants to be the dominant player in all spheres world wide, and will do whatever it takes to accomplish that. I know there are many on the left who cheer the decline of the USA. But they will be sorry if it happens. I would love if the Democrats has the courage to address this, but they won’t. Too busy coming up with divisive bs to distract the real external threat facing this country.
BRT,
Taiwan is probably the best majority ethnic Chinese country in the world to live in. Good education levels, reasonable political system, free press, free speech, lots of technology jobs, good food. It’s not perfect but it’s done very well from a rough start. Now they have first world problems.
Which is why the PRC is obsessed with making sure other countries pretend that Taiwan isn’t really a country. It clashes with their narrative that Chinese people must be controlled by an authoritarian government, and that any ruler but the CCP will lead to chaos and decline.
Supercomputer model of a cough spreading Covid19 in a supermarket.
https://www.hpcwire.com/2020/04/08/supercomputer-modeling-tests-how-covid-19-spreads-in-grocery-stores/
Juice, that graphic was specifically discredited by one of Gottlieb, Fauci, or LaPook as missing scientific basis for its assumptions. Specifically recall the segment on TV, did a quick search but it’s returning garbage, i’ll see if I can find it later.
was there from 10:15-11:15 this morning…. pretty fully stocked; no wait to get in; was especially pleased with all of the fresh meat available…..
the Costco in Marlboro had no chicken at all, and mostly cuts of steak and seafood only….. it was a bit concerning…..
$1.51/gas
Once inside the Costco….. it is pretty relaxed, in fact the checkout is better than normal due to their special protocols….
Juice Box says:
April 27, 2020 at 4:53 pm
Time to head to Whole Foods, running low on fresh veggies and well booze! I won’t be able to count on both hands and maybe even both feet how many 65+ seniors are toying with the grim reaper while they are lazily feeling up the fruits and veggies. I may even head over to the dreaded Shoprite that was plague filled even before Covid19.
Repeat after me. I am not going to touch myself. I am not going to touch myself. I am not going to touch myself! Boo-ya!
I will say the Middletown/Red Bank Whole Foods is possibly one of the best ones in the entire region……. one important new factor is none of those Prime automatons walking around looting the store….. Chapel Hill retains that genteel quarantined feel….
I believe this reporting….
Chicago says:
April 22, 2020 at 9:51 pm
This has led some to speculate that, having resigned himself to an uncontainable epidemic, Mr. Xi sought to make sure other countries weren’t spared so China wouldn’t be uniquely disadvantaged. Your arrival in the world must have been recent if you think politicians not capable of such cynicism, especially when operating under an authoritarian, communist, one-party political system.
https://thediplomat.com/2020/04/did-xi-jinping-deliberately-sicken-the-world/
So will this be the end result of the Reopen Rallies?
https://twitter.com/watertigernyc/status/1251547728414457857
The truth is somewhere in between.
Cause of Death in NY Mid-March – Mid-April
2019 vs 2020
https://twitter.com/MugarianJohn/status/1254421284659908608/photo/1
Where is the backup for the shore being locals only this summer? Seems like a death sentence for every seasonal business.
Yeah fu*ck no
Texting Customers Is No Longer Taboo When Everyone Is at Home
Companies are scrambling to enhance relationships with customers amid the coronavirus pandemic—and firms say they are using texting as a way to build an intimate connection.
Attentive Mobile Inc., a mobile messaging platform, said the average daily number of people signing up for texts from Attentive clients from March 30 through April 12 was 53% higher than the average for both January and February.
Some are using texting to spread positive messages or advice during the pandemic, rather than to make sales pitches.
SwimOutlet, a retailer of swim-related products, recently switched its strategy to create a different relationship with its customers. Previously, SwimOutlet used texting as a sales channel to send promotions to customers. On April 9 the company began to use text messages to deliver audio and video messages from Olympic athletes such as Ryan Murphy, a three-time Olympic gold medalist in swimming.
The goal is to lift customers’ spirits during a hard time, said Alexander Sienkiewicz, chief marketing officer for SwimOutlet. “Swim meets have been canceled, pools have been closed,” he said.
Texting Customers Is No Longer Taboo When Everyone Is at Home
homeboken – shore being locals? Are they going to boot just renters?
Really depends on the town, a place like LBI swells to about 200,000 from 10,000 in winter. Some are renters and well in places like LoveLadies are mostly 2nd home owners.
Good luck restricting the shore to locals only without violence erupting
Nursing home deaths rise to 49% of NJ covid deaths.
The fake ID business may be a good one to reopen.
left,
about the beaches
https://patch.com/new-jersey/pointpleasant/point-pleasant-beach-mayor-suggests-possible-beach-reopen-plan
Hoboken,
Yes most of the family owned businesses here are done and never coming back. Last restaurant by me that was “essential” just shuttered yesterday. Great places too but they cant make ends meet. People are underestimating the massive destruction this is doing to the economy. This isn’t going to be a V shaped recovery.
If I can hold onto my cash without bleeding out too much I there will be some serious opportunities here assuming a positive outcome. Unfortunately I think Texas has a better shot than NJ. We will see.
Food for thought. Massive layoffs, furloughs and cancelled contracts means our guest workers grace period of 60 days is running out, meaning a one way flight back home. We cut allot of these folks. They are all on borrowed time now, perhaps as little as 3-4 weeks. .Just wondering how big business is going to lobby like hell to get them all extensions. Watch for the legislation….
Grim,
There are already tons of NY license plates here in their 2nd homes. Its their home they have the right to be there. I should clarify that the limitation is intended to prevent short term (1 week renters) from coming here. That’s the municipal discussion. Its going to be a far different summer than what we are used to.
re: family owned businesses
I have been ordering 2 pizzas loaded with toppings and freezing one for weekday lunch as the the kids and I are always hungry for pizza.
Just spoke to the local plumber tonight, gas line for pool is ready to go he just needs a few days notice and said no permits in most towns as they won’t inspect, call when the landscaper digs trench and he will be right over. I did not have to argue about the plumbers price it was cheaper than the landscaper. Never happens folks, call now if you need something done!
The locals (who don’t work for Fortune 500) will run out of money like everyone else if this keeps up, local support can only go so far.
re: “Its their home they have the right to be there”
That is until the Sheriff is on the bridge checking IDs. Anyone still remember Hurricane Sandy?
If I were a place like point pleasant, I would be putting together wooden picnic tables galore separated by 20 ft on the first 100 feet of the sand that no one sits on. That entire boardwalk won’t be able to sell food and adhere to whatever restrictions they are talking about.
Blue Angels are poised to fly over my home tomorrow. I can’t wait. Considering I have to teach sound now to my students, I’m hoping to get a video of the approaching planes.
That was different. The place was wide open to looters
Juice Box says:
April 27, 2020 at 8:54 pm
re: “Its their home they have the right to be there”
That is until the Sheriff is on the bridge checking IDs. Anyone still remember Hurricane Sandy?
Blue Angels are the besssst: https://news.usni.org/2018/08/14/35796
re: That was different.
Sure thing,goodnight all, thanks for the engagement bored is killer too!
Libturd,
This guy release his plan yet?
Libturd says:
April 17, 2020 at 12:36 pm
What do you guys think of Dr. Michael Osterholm’s take on the virus?
https://www.msnbc.com/morning-joe/watch/this-isn-t-a-red-state-vs-blue-state-issue-cautions-doctor-81967173580