Updated Vaccination by Age Range for NJ:
Morning of 4/22 vs Morning of 4/27
At Least 1 Dose
Total Pop: 8.9m (Not adjusted for new census data)
Total 1st Doses: 4.1m – 46% of total pop (Up from 44%) – Bloomberg reporting 49%
16-17 – 230k population – 41k dosed – 18% 1 dose (Up from 17%)
18-29 – 1.4m population – 451k dosed – 32% 1 Dose (Up from 28%)
30-49 – 2.3m population – 1.1m dosed – 48% 1 Dose (Up from 46%)
50-64 – 1.9m population – 1.2m dosed – 63% 1 Dose (Up from 60%)
65-79 – 1.1m population – 1.0m dosed – 91% 1 Dose (Up from 89%)
80+ – 400k population – 328k dosed – 82% 1 Dose (Up from 78%)
We’re now hitting the 50% “tipping point” that marked the fall off in cases in UK and Israel.
Chicago says:
April 26, 2021 at 11:19 pm
I didn’t know that grim added a blacklist link to the site. When?
Not intentionally, it popped up after one of the WordPress upgrades.
Gottlieb said we need to start removing restrictions and he predicts no additional waves. He said remove masks outdoors.
“Right now, the declines that we’re seeing, we can take to the bank,” he said.
“I think we could feel more assured because they’re being driven by vaccinations and greater levels of population-wide immunity, not just from vaccination, but also from prior infection. There’s been a lot of Americans who’ve had this infection and have a level of immunity from their prior disease.”
Osterholm’s category 4 hurricane prediction never materialized here.
Jcer,
“The quality of the personnel leaves something to be desired, there is a lot of willingness but technical skill is sorely lacking.”
Boy is that the truth..we had one Postgres candidate decline. He had two years experience and wanted to be paid like 8-10 years. He ended up getting it somewhere. We are under such pressure to hire that we are taking lower quality people, paying them gobs and still not sure they will join in the end.
The biggest cause of the population slowdown is the declining birthrate. Today, the average American adult of child-rearing age has 17 percent fewer children than in 1990 — and about 50 percent fewer than in 1960. The U.S. still has a higher fertility rate than Japan and Germany, but it is in the same range as Britain and Sweden and below France and Ireland. There are now more Americans 80 and older than 2 or younger.
The second factor behind the slow population growth is a decline in legal immigration during Donald Trump’s presidency. (Illegal immigration does not appear to have changed significantly.)
The upsides of less growth
There are some advantages to slower population growth. A lower birthrate can expand the economic opportunities for women, especially because the U.S. has relatively flimsy child care programs. Historically, birthrates have declined as societies become more educated and wealthier.
Lower levels of immigration can also have upsides. The big wage gains for American workers during the mid-20th century had many causes, including strong labor unions, rising educational attainment and high tax rates on top incomes. But the tight immigration restrictions of that period also played a role.
“Immigration restriction, by making unskilled labor more scarce, tended to shore up wage rates,” the labor historian Irving Bernstein wrote in a 1960 book. The economists Peter Lindert and Jeffrey Williamson have noted that economic inequality declined more during the mid-20th century in countries with slower labor force growth.
And the big downsides
Over all, though, the slowdown in population growth is probably a net negative for the U.S. — as both conservatives (like Ross Douthat) and liberals (like Michelle Goldberg) have argued.
For one thing, polls show that many Americans want more children than they are having, as The Times’s Claire Cain Miller has noted. But the slow-growing incomes and a shortage of good child care options have led some people to decide that they cannot afford to have as many children as they would like. The decline in the birthrate, in other words, is partly a reflection of American society’s failure to support families.
(President Biden wants to address these problems by expanding child care and pre-K programs and extending a child tax credit in the recent Covid-19 relief bill. Those proposals will be part of his speech to Congress tomorrow night.)
A second problem with slow population growth involves global affairs. The U.S. now faces the most serious challenge to its supremacy since the Cold War — from China. The future path of the two countries’ economic growth will help determine their relative strength. And population growth, in turn, helps determine economic growth, especially in an advanced economy. To have any hope of keeping up with China and its vastly larger population, the U.S. will probably need bigger population increases than it has recently had.
Viewed in these terms, the population slowdown is a threat to national security. “I don’t know of a precedent for a dynamic country that has basically stopped growing,” The Atlantic’s Derek Thompson has written.
In Matthew Yglesias’s recent book “One Billion Americans,” he argues that the U.S. should rapidly increase legal immigration to lift economic output. “America should aspire to be the greatest nation on earth,” Yglesias, the author of a Substack newsletter, writes. The only realistic alternative for that role is China, an authoritarian country that is jailing critics and committing egregious human rights abuses.
Higher levels of immigration also have a direct benefit: More of the millions of people around the world who want to move to the U.S. get the chance to do so.
At the current vaccination pace the US will reach 70% by July 10th and 80% by August 6th. At that point we have to start vaccinating children under 16 to go any higher to 90% etc.
Should be interesting to see the push to get the vaccine hesitant people inoculated. How many Billions in contracts are going to get doled out to advertise vaccine safety to them?
We’re going to struggle to hit 70%, even with the inclusion of children 12 and up (pending Pfizer approval).
Israel has completely hit a wall at 60% of total population. They are sub-10k doses per day at this point, which is essentially running out dose 2 to the current pop, and not expanding further. That’s 100 days for the next *million* doses, and that doesn’t even get them to 70%.
They need the 12+ approval to fire up the machine again and make any real progress. Realistically, it’s going to take 5-6 and up to get them to 80%.
President Biden’s #AmericanFamilyPlan will likely include a large increase in the top federal tax rate on long-term capital gains and qualified dividends, from 23.8% today to 39.6% for higher earners.
When including the net investment income tax, the top federal rate on capital gains would be 43.4%. Rates would be even higher in many U.S. states due to state and local capital gains taxes, leading to a combined average rate of 48% compared to about 29% under current law.
Under President Biden’s tax plan, 13 states and D.C. would have a top combined capital gains tax rate at or above 50%: 56.7% CA 54.3% NY 54.2% NJ 53.3% OR 53.3% MN 52.4% DC 52.2% VT 50.7% HI 50.6% ME 50.4% CT 50.3% ID 50.2% NE 50.2% MT 50.0% DE (58.2% NYC) (57.3% Portland, OR)
https://mishtalk.com/economics/net-capital-gains-tax-will-approach-a-whopping-60-under-bidens-proposal
This is investment income. Not income derived from labor. It’s completely fair and lots of the rich are supporting it, at least publicly. Trump’s cuts did not trickle down (they never do). They only expand the gap between the rich and the poor. Fear not though, CEOs now make 300X the average worker in their employ up from 30-40X back in the 80s. I think a greater tax on their investment income is extremely fair. Might as well do something with all of that excess wealth doing nothing but enriching themselves infinitely further anyway.
JFK quote:
“The tax on capital gains directly affects investment decisions, the mobility and flow of risk capital from static to more dynamic situations, the ease or difficulty experienced by new ventures in obtaining capital, and thereby the strength and potential for growth of the economy.”
Fast,
60 years ago, Ed? Now we have financial demons and succubi simply sucking off trading algos. This is not financial reinvestment in anything other than a computer. If we want to step a little further, here is main problem. Eisenhower Farewell 1960.
Until the latest of our world conflicts, the United States had no armaments industry. American makers of plowshares could, with time and as required, make swords as well. But we can no longer risk emergency improvisation of national defense. We have been compelled to create a permanent armaments industry of vast proportions. Added to this, three and a half million men and women are directly engaged in the defense establishment. We annually spend on military security alone more than the net income of all United States corporations.
Now this conjunction of an immense military establishment and a large arms industry is new in the American experience. The total influence—economic, political, even spiritual—is felt in every city, every Statehouse, every office of the Federal government. We recognize the imperative need for this development. Yet, we must not fail to comprehend its grave implications. Our toil, resources, and livelihood are all involved. So is the very structure of our society.
In the councils of government, we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the military-industrial complex. The potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists and will persist. We must never let the weight of this combination endanger our liberties or democratic processes. We should take nothing for granted. Only an alert and knowledgeable citizenry can compel the proper meshing of the huge industrial and military machinery of defense with our peaceful methods and goals, so that security and liberty may prosper together.
Pumpkin, why no one is having kids is easy. The answer is in your post. The government pays for the 80 y/o diapers, diaper changes, and everything so it can make it to 81. The government pays $0 (except for Tax credits) for the the 2 y/o diapers, diapers changes, and everything else so he makes it to 3 y/o. It is the rule of this great country that the old have more value than the young.
“There are now more Americans 80 and older than 2 or younger.”
Walking, come on. You either become part of the oligopolies HackMer/RWJ Barn/ Atlantic or go VA or across the river, especially NYC HHC – pension and deferred 401k/457b – 19.5k in each deferral , they got better and more cookies. Also you mean you can’t open a Vanguard i401k deduct money in there, and deduct all your expenses against a 1099 income, which passes thru at 20%+ vs higher % with W-2, and that is without incorporating.
Walking says:
April 26, 2021 at 8:38 pm
Bystander if it makes you feel better doc salary for er hospital in bergen county pays $92 an hour , you bring your own malpractice and get paid a 1099. Malpractice alone will take $20 to $25 of that so you are looking at $72 an hour with no benefits and a larger tax bite.
When JFK made this quote, corporations paid tax rates of 52%. Today, the largest corporations don’t pay taxes. Hmmmm. Oh yeah, top income tax rates were 70%. Let’s return to those levels and then we can cut investment income down to whatever you’d like.
You are arguing a tax narrative that is devoid of truth. As usual, the pundits leave out the pertinent information.
When you think for yourself, you realize how silly all of these narratives are.
Let me know when Carson Tucker donates a bridge, park, museum or tunnel.
Carson Tucker?? Is he even playing?
https://www.baseball-reference.com/register/player.fcgi?id=tucker003car
The question is which one appears to have been hit in the head with more baseballs..I’ll go with Carlson,Tucker.
The progressives are screaming for the rich to pay their fair share and it’s the tech oligarchy who vote overwhelming for progressives. It makes you wonder who’s really gonna pay for the tax increases. :o
Here’s an old article when the first Bush was in office. This shows how old this narrative is. The formula for these dumb narratives are simple. X = Popular president from opposing party. Y = policy that looks identical on the surface to supporting party. Z = All of the missing information that makes Y entirely different than policy supporting party is pushing.
X + Y = CNN/FOX/MSNBC, AKA manipulative bullsh1t
Z = The boring truth which does not excite the Pavlovian viewer, but proves a modicum of intelligence.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/opinions/1989/07/30/jfk-wouldnt-favor-a-capital-gains-tax-cut/050a6dc4-2190-45cc-975b-a8848903cad1/
This is from 1989!
“This is investment income. Not income derived from labor.”
Who cares. Why the fcuk does that even matter? If it does, shouldn’t we start differentiating income even further by source? Pizza guy or truck driver, who should pay higher taxes? Corporate drone or real estate agent?
“Trump’s cuts did not trickle down (they never do). They only expand the gap between the rich and the poor.”
The true fallacy of the left, and it hurts coming from you Lib especially when below you espouse facts and slam propaganda. The ‘rich’ earning more does not push the ‘poor’ further into poverty. Simply doesn’t, two independent variables. Not a zero sum game. And, by definition, in times of rapid economic expansion the wealthy will also see a greater rate of increase in comp and wealth. It is impossible for the math to work otherwise.
“CEOs now make 300X the average worker in their employ up from 30-40X back in the 80s.”
Thank your tinkering liberal fool friends for that one, similar to the reason healthcare in the US is mated to employment. A decade or so ago to ‘limit’ executive pay (again, why does that even matter) the Left instituted an ‘excess compensation tax’ on salaries and bonuses paid to executives. Companies responded by handing out options instead…markets go up and, presto change-o, exec comp goes through the roof, much more so than if they were comped under old methods. So yeah, let’s let the Left tinker more. LOL, if history is any guide it will benefit the execs, again. Fools. God, it is impossible to believe the Left can actually be this stupid, there has to be another agenda.
Junkie eddie
My point
$180k minus 60k for malpractice brings you to $120k a year. Throw another $15k for health insurance and even with the write-offs it’s not so great. But yes the oligorchs are the way to go. Though patient care when working for the oligarchs is equal to the 90 point inspection you get with your $20 car oil service. Seems to be some obvious health issues that the big guys check off as fine.
In Matthew Yglesias’s recent book “One Billion Americans,” he argues that the U.S. should rapidly increase legal immigration to lift economic output.
10 years ago, the same moron who was just a kid out of college at that point was touting the economic growth of Argentina. Krugman loved it and went along with it. Now they pretend it never happened.
left / turd: believe it or not, I am going to fall more toward the turd side….. I think taxation is too low at the highest income ranges at the Federal level, especially in light of what was done in 2018. That said, what NY, CA and eventually NJ will propose is wholly unacceptable and self-defeating.
Also, statutory federal estate tax exemptions need to be frozen in place, or else reduced. We cannot have inter-generational legacies of unmotivated morons based on the genetic lottery. It is the wealthy version of universal basic income.
That said, much of the propaganda around the rich and corporations avoiding taxes is relatively easy to rebut, whether it is municipal tax-free bonds, use of IRA’s, deferred tax or tax-exempt accounts, or GAAAP accounting. They make it sound like a conspiracy, when the vast majority could be done with TurboTax.
That said, there are scumbags such as Trump, real estate people, cash based businesses who are out there.
Raise federal taxes on uber rich….. there is no real reason not to….. a good deal of it could result from an Estate Tax revamp.
Clawback language came Sarbanes-Oxley in 2002 under Bush. Is there anything you won’t try to blame on left? Exec compensation is always heads I win, tails you lose for employee. I remember when they “punished” the execs at CS by making bonus in stock options. They immediately repealed granting options to VP level which had been the case for years. They knew the Fed bailouts which push stocks into stratosphere. This is the wealthy ahead of the pre-determined outcome, not right or left causing it.
“I think taxation is too low at the highest income ranges at the Federal level…That said, much of the propaganda around the rich and corporations avoiding taxes is relatively easy to rebut…”
We’re in agreement. I offered no opinion as to the ‘correct’ level of tax rate, takes a fair level of hubris to do so.
My target was as you state the ‘arguments’ being put forth to raise taxes are propaganda, illogical, and ignorant of history and data.
“Clawback language came Sarbanes-Oxley in 2002 under Bush. Is there anything you won’t try to blame on left?”
If the shoe fits…..not talking clawback, there was a new corporate tax instituted on companies if they paid execs more cash than a fixed amount. Don’t have time to search it, but remember it well I was there. Big dustup at SEC as to how to report in proxies, whether options counted and how to value. The explosion in options which is what drives total income to senior execs is directly due to the strict Fed limit on cash comp or suffer a tax penalty.
“Exec compensation is always heads I win, tails you lose for employee.”
Don’t even know where to start here….so wrong…..
The basis for most people’s compensation:
Direct value added of your skill set to the market rate for the job: 75%
S0ft skills in executing that j0b (team player, etc): 15%
Everything else, except what your CEO was paid: 10%
What your CEO was paid: 0%
Want more comp? It’s about you, not everyone else.
Frankly, the one target that all the tax talk miss and I think on purpose is to take away the special Real Estate privileges given with the 1031 exchange and amortization.
There is a reasons that about half of the billionaires come from Real Estate. Those mother frs have never paid up on the accrue capital gains from the beggining.
Eddie, I heard your orange back to live the summer in Bedminster, I guess that club is losing money hand over fist and he need his supporters to book some hotel rooms, and spend some dough in the Somerset Hills of NJ.
So my question, are you going to book some event there or go spend a day there to support your dear leader? If you are really Q Anon believing, you noticed that he has lost a lot of weight, sort of cancerish loosing of weight like. Of course Memorial Sloan Kettering has a clinic nearby in Basking Ridge area.
Eddie, you got to go and spend at least 10K supporting your dear leader, otherwise I going to lose any respect I have for you.
I was talking about bonus portion of compensation. I was also taking about specific changes to bonus compensation structure which go to benefit of execs. That is true. If your post above is about bonus compensation then times have changed. You know where I work. It works nothing like that anymore. In fact we assign people to a rating prior their own YE feedback. It comes down from execs on numbers of high performers they will accept that year. We need to fit our people into those buckets even before I have my performance discussion with my reports. I then have to retrofit my feedback to justify my rating even in cases where person operated much higher. It is a sham, a false narrative that you control own comp. You have no voice or option.
Eddie, you got to go and spend at least 10K supporting your dear leader, otherwise I going to lose any respect I have for you.
What percentage of your gross salary above your alloted federal taxable rate do you give to the government to offset the rac1st inequality perpetuated upon the poor and destitute?
Fast Eddie,
My percentage is 0%. I use the same accountant as your dear leader, Kochs and Murdock
Walking,
NJ is always a 2nd/3rd tier, cross the river. I did for my previous and present careers and never look back, except this past spring with crisis pay.
Only reason to stay if you are part of a group that has a scheme running like CarePoint with its McCabe Ambulance and Hudson Regional (aka Meadowlands) with its ambulance fleet bringing people to their ER and jacking them with all out of network and take everyone to court for their last cent.
Direct value added of your skill set to the market rate for the job…
There it is in a nut shell. You get paid based on your ability to produce goods or services of value. It’s why liberals are so angry, depressed and const1pated. They’ve been waiting 60 years for government to show them the way, give them something or deliver something and they’re at the same point now as they were then.
Liberals want and need to be cared for, to be relieved of responsibilities… more so now as adults which adds to their frustration. Why hasn’t it worked? Why doesn’t it work? Why does my ideology not deliver intrinsic value? Over and over they ask themselves. As I’ve said, they don’t know what they don’t know and trying to explain it is futile. Thus, they hate success and achievement on an individual basis.
Their child to parent dependency was bliss… their adult to state attachment results in failure after failure. Leadership is not demonstrated at the top because the so-called leaders are dependent on other peoples achievements. It’s the reason the liberal leadership doesn’t know any better when and how to spend other people’s money, no wonder their minions feel even worse!! It’s the blind leading the blind.
And if one “child” receives more than the other “child” then it results in rage and protest!! Equality!! We need equality!!
Leftwing,
I’m not even coming at this from a left vs. right angle. Nor do I think you really are. Your position appears to be the classic, even if you took all of the highly compensated compensation to zero and divided it among the less fortunate (or as you call it, those who didn’t work hard enough to give enough value to the company) it wouldn’t amount to a hill of beans. I’m less concerned about the hill of beans though I think it will help them live a better life, even it wouldn’t turn them into the uber wealthy. But that’s still a minor point. The larger point is fairness and how a company values all of it’s employees. Imagine the company with 10,000 employees. 9,750 of them unionize and demand the top 250 take a 50% paycut. Of course, the top 250 will simply fire the bottom 9,750 since they are all replaceable. But I feel a company would be better off replacing the top 250. Why? Because they simply are not as valuable as they think they are. I’ve worked the majority of my adult life with these executives. They make foolish decision after foolish decision, often negatively impacting the bottom 9,750 and rarely impacting the top 250. Yet take 50% of their salary, share it among the 9,750 and you will get a huge bump in production from increased moral, a less tired workforce who doesn’t have to work a second job to get by or who may be able to afford to pay someone to help their kids with their schoolwork instead of doing it themselves. You know, like the top 250 do. And how does this relate to investment income? Well, the 9,750 doesn’t have much in the way of investment income. They barely have discretionary dollars to spend. Since we are not willing to improve the corporate pay structure, then I’m completely cool with doing it through taxation (especially considering the endless loopholes they exploit, which you also have no issue with). To me, it’s a matter of fairness. I’ve witnessed the impact of what a 3K bonus for everyone in the company can do. It works miracles.
Let’s play with math. That top 250 (minus the big 4 at the top) at 400K per year on average cost 100 million. Those top 4 easily add 50 million more in cost. So that’s 150 million. To give the bottom 9,750 a 3K bonus, costs 29 million. Do you really believe cutting that 150 million down to 121 million in compensation will have nearly as adverse of an impact on the performance of the corporation as giving the 9,750 a 3K bump in pay? I actually think it’s detrimental to have such a gap. The lesser the gap, the more fairly everyone feels they are treated and the better the workplace will be as everyone will want to work there. Not just the executive class. But what do I know. I only live it.
Remember, I was being groomed for the executive track, but chose not to pursue it to many of our executives chagrin. About five years ago, I watched them promote someone for the role which they wanted me to take. No amount of money was going to see me dedicate my life to the corporation at the detriment of my relationship to my family. I know what kind of life you have when you put in 60 to 80 hour work weeks as I had done it for about ten years already. The guy they promoted is great and has a lot of my qualities. And in a strange way, the execs who are still with us think they are getting one over on me as I am still with the company, sharing my wisdom and expertise with so many, yet being grossly undercompensated for it. But when I’m home eating dinner with my family, they are on the phone well into the night still working as they always do. There’s one particular exec who completely gets it and regrets the path he took. But it’s too late for him. His kids already have their own families. Now, he’s got nothing better to do than work. This guy is our head of compliance.
Lefty, it’s really not about Left or Right, even though the I take the more left position. I really see it as an issue of fairness. When the fulcrum moves too far in one direction, don’t be surprised when the huge group holding you up jumps off the seesaw all at once.
Ed,
But you yourself are not a business owner or exec leader, right? Never did catch what you did.
Eddie’s scribe is once again, pure narrative. The right talks a huge game and then does exactly the same as the left. Sure, switch it around. It’s all the same. They are ALL the same. The real fools are the one who believe politicians care about them and are not in it for themselves. Take the money out of politics. Then, you’ll get people who care about you doing the job.
Remove “you” from that last sentence.
Eddie, this is just hitting the news – from the New Yorker. They have the video on their site.
After the mass shooting at Sandy Hook Elementary School, in 2012, Wayne LaPierre, the head of the National Rifle Association, told Americans agitating for new gun regulations, “The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun.” Less than a year later, LaPierre and his wife, Susan, travelled to Botswana’s Okavango Delta, where they hoped to show N.R.A. members that they had the grit to take on a different adversary: African bush elephants, the largest land mammals on Earth. The trip was filmed by a crew from “Under Wild Skies,” an N.R.A.-sponsored television series that was meant to boost the organization’s profile among hunters—a key element of its donor base. But the program never aired, according to sources and records, because of concerns that it could turn into a public-relations fiasco.
The Trace and The New Yorker obtained a copy of the footage, which has been hidden from public view for eight years. It shows that when guides tracked down an elephant for LaPierre, the N.R.A. chief proved to be a poor marksman. After LaPierre’s first shot wounded the elephant, guides brought him a short distance from the animal, which was lying on its side, immobilized. Firing from point-blank range, LaPierre shot the animal three times in the wrong place. Finally, a guide had the host of “Under Wild Skies” fire the shot that killed the elephant. Later that day, Susan LaPierre showed herself to be a better shot than her husband. After guides tracked down an elephant for her, Susan killed it, cut off its tail, and held it in the air. “Victory!” she shouted, laughing. “That’s my elephant tail. Way cool.”
For three decades, LaPierre has led the N.R.A.’s fund-raising efforts by railing against out-of-touch “élites” and selling himself as an authentic champion of American self-reliance and the unfettered right to protect oneself with a gun. But the footage, as well as newly uncovered legal records, suggest that behind his carefully constructed Everyman image, LaPierre is a coddled executive who is clumsy with a firearm, and fearful of the violent political climate he has helped to create. The N.R.A. did not respond to requests for comment.
“I was talking about bonus portion of compensation. I was also taking about specific changes to bonus compensation structure which go to benefit of execs.”
Bystander, so am I. Here is your answer, compliments of Eddie….
“Direct value added of your skill set to the market rate for the job…There it is in a nut shell. You get paid based on your ability to produce goods or services of value.”
There is a reason a janitor gets $15/hr. That is the market clearing rate for the job. Guy could have a PhD, if he’s being hired as a janitor he’s getting $15. The CEO could be bonused $100m, $10m, $1m, or zero that year. The janitor gets $15.
I’m looking at total comp. Variability in bonuses year-to-year exist obviously base on annual results, it’s part of what determines the market rate for the job.
Point is….anyone who ever said in any year “man I got wildly fcuked on my comp because the CEO was paid $20m” is so misinformed as to not deserve to have his job unless he is, in fact, the janitor.
The major determinant of comp by far is how well one’s skill set matches the market clearing rate for one’s job. If it’s not working, get a new job or acquire better skills. But for one’s own benefit don’t sit around and blame CEO comp or put the fault like the Bernanistas do on one of America’s 634 billionaires…..One’s sucky comp literally has zero to do with either of them.
3:16 You sound delusional.
Lib, as usual I think our areas of overlap are more than our areas of disagreement.
I do take issue with “fairness” as a measure since it is highly subjective and intensely personal. Hard to keep measure when the markings on each yardstick are different….
Other than that your bonus redistribution example is informative…my response, if doing so would actually be more beneficial for everyone involved – for all employees and the corporate entity – then it would happen as it’s in everyone’s self interest. And it is happening. The intersection of work-life balance and compensation for this upcoming generation is very fluid and many corporations have adjusted. If these companies are right they will be more successful than others. If not, then the experiment is disproved and the company blows up. But it either happens, or doesn’t, based on the market clearing rate for a job (comp and quality of life, as you yourself have demonstrated). No need to tax or legislate “fairness”.
And back to the original point, being it was government legislation to try to engineer a “fair” outcome by limiting the deductibility of cash compensation over a certain random threshold that opened the door to the wildly higher amounts of comp execs received by way of option packages.
Let the market work. It’s actually really efficient if people just stop trying to control it and rather respond to it.
Separately, my Raspberry Pi just arrived. Need to get setup and start teaching myself coding……
RasPi is really cool. Though, it will also frustrate the crap out of you. The closest comparison I have was when I used to screw around with my TRS-80.
listening to 1015, they said NJ gained over 400k people this year?
No one knows their value to org until you get that check. In fact I never really know my value. I create my value in my head. I do know my employees value to the major work assigned to them. I don’t like that I am told ahead of time that I can have no fours, one 3.5 and three 3s because I know that is dictated by predetermined calc to back into bonus pool..which was flat..on one of IBs best years of last decade…but 4.5B was set aside for stock buybacks to bump execs pay..yet it had no impact on pool below that was flat..as we added no value..got it..geez
BRT,
All hail Murphy.
New Jersey’s population grew from 8,791,894 in 2010 to 9,288,994 in 2020, according to the Census Bureau, an increase of 5.7%.
“The Census results we received today are a testament to what we’ve known all along: that New Jersey is the best state in the nation to live, work, and raise a family,” Gov. Phil Murphy said in a statement Monday night.
Anyone else happy the Jets are finally going to have an elite qb? Wilson to the moon🚀
We should be thanking DeBlasio.
Gorgeous yard, but wife won’t bite. Entire house was updated and pretty much brand new. Bedrooms weren’t big enough, wife won’t give up the house. Happy wife, happy life.
I had no problem saving money with going from a CHC to a split level, but wife won’t do it.
Taxes would have been 15,000 instead of 19,000
Can you remove Pumps from the current thread?
Libturd says:
April 27, 2021 at 3:36 pm
Remove “you” from that last sentence.
By: I am not trying to be a prick….. you are a cost center.
Bystander says:
April 27, 2021 at 6:31 pm
No one knows their value to org until you get that check. In fact I never really know my value. I create my value in my head. I do know my employees value to the major work assigned to them. I don’t like that I am told ahead of time that I can have no fours, one 3.5 and three 3s because I know that is dictated by predetermined calc to back into bonus pool..which was flat..on one of IBs best years of last decade…but 4.5B was set aside for stock buybacks to bump execs pay..yet it had no impact on pool below that was flat..as we added no value..got it..geez
When I was at AT&T, we ran a dog and pony show to pick co-leads for several transactions in 1999. Hand of G-d (CEO) comes down and tells us to use XYZ at last minute. We were thinking WTF is this? Of course, CEO and IB group head were roommates in college. So basically a whole slew of associates, analysts, IT people, cafeteria people, cleaning people, people at Turd’s printer get coin because of ONE rainmaker. This reason is why these pricks get the big money.
That said, they don’t make the rain, they are out on their a%%.
Funny about that population change number that Murphy is proud of. The entire United States grew by 6.3%. NJ grew by 5.7%. It must have been this brilliance with math that made him such a darling at Goldman Sachs.
Bystander, not tweaking or trolling you, you’re a contributor here and I appreciate your postings…
I never said you and your team didn’t add value.
I did say the compensation assigned that value is the market clearing rate. And the market clearing rate for your contributions is set by offshoring and H1Bs.
When your landscaper gives you a quote you don’t go out and shop for a higher quote for the same services. Neither, obviously, do employers.
It all loops back to the original point….get the government out of the “fairness allocation” business and you will have cleaner incentives and actual fairness.
The way for your team to increase compensation under current conditions is to somehow add materially more value than you do now, which value cannot be added by offshore/H1B personnel….
Lack of compensation for your team has nothing to do with a $4.5B share buyback or a $20m CEO package and everything to do with our government encouraging the market clearing rate for your services to be priced in countries where their entire populations earn less than $40k annually.
Fcuking around with US personal income taxes, CEO comp, or capital distributions will not change anything regarding your team’s comp, because they are not the source of the problem.
Left,
One place we are in complete agreement is on eliminating government intervention into free markets. Let me ask you one last question before I head off to dreamland after watching the Mets 1st and 3rd base coaches cost the Mets the ballgame. Were you in support of our Government bailing out Goldman Sachs (and others) in 2008?
Thanks for reminder.
Do you have the time to listen to me whine?
chicagofinance says:
April 27, 2021 at 7:58 pm
Can you remove Pumps from the current thread?
“Were you in support of our Government bailing out Goldman Sachs (and others) in 2008?”
Absolutely not. Go back to the blog and look. I was ripshit, and never bought the apologists who argued “it would have brought the whole system down to everyone’s detriment”.
No, it would have brought down levels of senior management who screwed the pooch and deserved and needed to be cleaned out. New people and/or organizations that weren’t part of the debacle would and should have taken their place. Criminal that they were bailed out.
Cool. I thought so.
Chi, Bystander works at literally the worst bank. Literally the CEO for the Americas region thinks technology has zero value and treats it accordingly. Cost center or not at one point at least a handful of the Ibanks understood the value of technology as a strategic advantage. For all intents and purposes his firm has given up and is just trying to keep the lights on at the lowest possible cost.
There is no competing with H1B visa holders or offshore personnel. Organizations that have adopted that strategy are incapable of operating in a way that fully takes advantage of onshore local high skill teams. They tend to implement a ton of bureaucracy and process that really hinders an agile development process. If you are not a people leader or a thought leader in an organization aligned that way you are standing on train tracks waiting for the train to come hit you.
I’m going to reiterate what I’ve said before show me the problem and I can almost assuredly demonstrate why the government isn’t the answer. The example of Switzerland was thrown out days ago, they have no minimum wage, they do not have socialized medicine, they do not have capital gains taxes….what they do have is regulations that protect markets, they restrict the numbers of workers, they force markets to work for the people instead of trying to upend them. Capital gains taxes at the lower rates have worked, it was one of the huge unexpected successes of Bill Clinton’s tax policy, it’s good tax policy. Monkeying with the rates is fine, the top income tax rate can go up but the issue we have is that no one reinstated the Clinton tax increases. Obama brought them back in the higher brackets, but if you want to raise revenue the tax increase needs to be broad. I can tell you right now we already are paying a lot of taxes, the rich never pay, the upper middle class(doctors, lawyers, accountants, engineers, etc) always get stuck with the bill.
And there you have it, why everyone, including children, should be vaccinated – and it’s not reducing personal risk.
One dose of a Covid vaccine can almost halve transmission, study finds
A single dose of a coronavirus vaccine can reduce transmission within a household by up to half, a study by Public Health England has found.
People who do become infected with the coronavirus three weeks after receiving a single dose of the Pfizer-BioNTech or AstraZeneca-University of Oxford vaccine were between 38% and 49% less likely to pass the virus on to their household contacts than those who were unvaccinated, the PHE study found.
Protection was seen from around 14 days after vaccination, with similar levels of protection regardless of age of cases or contacts.
This protection is on top of the reduced risk of a vaccinated person developing symptomatic infection in the first place, which is around 60% to 65% – four weeks after one dose of either vaccine, PHE noted. Having both doses of a coronavirus vaccine (the delay between doses is up to 12 weeks in the U.K.) confers an even higher level of protection against Covid infection.
The U.K.’s Health Secretary Matt Hancock hailed the study’s findings as “terrific news.” “We already know vaccines save lives and this study is the most comprehensive real-world data showing they also cut transmission of this deadly virus.”
“It further reinforces that vaccines are the best way out of this pandemic as they protect you and they may prevent you from unknowingly infecting someone in your household.”
Keep in mind, this is IN A HOUSEHOLD – meaning prolonged indoor contact. If it’s that effective under those circumstances, imagine what the implications are for incidental contact in public?
So, I made a bunch of dummy accounts on the states registration site when it first came up. I made a bunch of profiles for educators with prexisting conditions. The female ones got the email almost right away. The male 40 year old educator with 3 pre-existing conditions just got the email last night (wtf?).
I have a feeling someone programmed the responses to be “equitable”.
I see no rush in giving perfectly healthy children, with basically zero risk from COVID, an EUA vaccine. Give these companies time to get this right, get the longer term studies done.
There are some pretty stark inequities in the NJ Vax data.
County by County data is a big standout, there are some massive differences that are curious.
Male/Female breakdown is pretty stark as well, with 700k more doses going to Females vs. Males. 55/45 split.
Racial – Black and Hispanic/Latinx significantly underrepresented. Asian slightly overrepresented. Though – it’s arguable that there are some racial/age mix composition differences that can explain this, especially look at racial composition of of 50+.
I see no rush in giving perfectly healthy children, with basically zero risk from COVID, an EUA vaccine.
You are an idiot.
I think a 1st vaccine is justified just to crush this and essentially transmission it off the US map ASAP to justify full reopening immediately. Whether it becomes endemic long term, subsequent “boosters” are going to likely be pointless for children, as most of them are a headache at best, and nobody a year from now is going to be rushing their kid to get tested for COVID when they get sick.
What a joke my kids were supposedly again in close contact with a positive covid-19 case. will be home “quaratine” now until May 12th. This is the fourth time since the beginning of the year. They are in different grades so it must be on of the kids on the Bus. Every kid on that Bus including the driver should be in quarantine.
Juice, they define close contact as 15 minutes within 6 feet. A lot of teachers are lazy and just list everyone because they didn’t keep track. I would try to ask them where, how close, all these things and if they can’t answer, argue that a negative test should allow them back in. I’ve seen it done successfully.
It’s for the children (clot Edition):
She may be getting a long timeout.
A kindergarten teacher in Virginia has been arrested while her students were at recess after a substance suspected to be cocaine was found in her desk, authorities said.
Cybil Billie, 46, of Chesterfield County, was taken into custody last week at Lakeview Elementary School after an administrator contacted a school resource officer about possible drugs, news station WWBT reported.
The officer spoke with Billie and found what appeared to be cocaine in her classroom desk, news station WRIC reported.
Division Superintendent William D. Sroufe said the students were at recess when she was taken into the custody and the arrest was handled “tactfully.”
My kids have not taken the bus one single time this entire year. It has fcuking killed me, but there are way too many clowns out there, and I am not playing Russian Roulette with my kids’ freedom.
Juice Box says:
April 28, 2021 at 8:32 am
What a joke my kids were supposedly again in close contact with a positive covid-19 case. will be home “quaratine” now until May 12th. This is the fourth time since the beginning of the year. They are in different grades so it must be on of the kids on the Bus. Every kid on that Bus including the driver should be in quarantine.
My kids aren’t even on the bus for 15 minutes. It’s all arbitrary bullshit from the school nurse who does her own contact tracing, who did you sit near etc, their customer rule supposedly is 6 ft. for a period of at least 10 minutes with or without a mask. We messaged most of the parents of kids who rode the bus this morning, so far only a handful had to be quarantined.
This is the fourth time they have had to quarantine, we did negative tests each time with doctors notes that they are not infected, they toss out their arbitrary playbook for close contact they came up with that is different from the CDC guidelines.
CDC guidelines for quarantine say after 5 days of quarantine, if there is a negative test and they should be able to go back to school. They won’t accept it.
I just want to make to the end of the school year, get my kids vaccinated ASAP over the summer once approved and let the governor crack down on them as he has said he would, with no remote options in the fall but then again it’s an election year.
grim, your pro-vax for children stance is not based in science, it’s every bit as emotionally driven as the anti-vax stance. When your response is “idiot”, it means you do not have an articulate argument. There is a very real reason children under 12 do not get hit with the virus as hard, do not spread the virus as easily, etc. SARS-CoV2 depends on the ACE2 receptor to infect, children express a much lower amount of ACE2 in their respiratory tracts, as a general rule they will have lower viral loads, are less likely to be infected and will have milder symptoms and will be less likely to transmit the disease as they express less viral load for a shorter duration. It would be reckless and unethical to VAX a bunch of young children with an EUA vaccine that has not been properly studied in children, we are doing it in adults because there is a known risk and it has killed 2m people. Furthermore it is much more important based on risk, infection rates and the biology of the virus to vaccinate the 12-18 yr old cohort. We do not need to VAX 100% to slow the spread even 60% might be enough for herd immunity, given their likely exposure many children have already had it and never noticed as they did not have any symptoms, lower viral loads and a better TCell response as a result of lots more commons colds etc means they silently had it and are now immune. I haven’t seen any research indicating children as a vector of transmission, also anecdotally I and many other people we know have had their toddlers in daycare during the majority of this pandemic and how many cases of COVID have we heard of in these daycare centers?
I’m all for Vaxing the adults, we’ve given millions of doses of these vaccines and there have been very few issues. COVID presents a serious risk to adults and the vaccine while also reducing the spread also offers some level of protection for the person who has taken it, potentially upwards of 90%(Moderna, Pfizer, AZ and Sputnik V) and that just covers symptomatic COVID not the potential attenuating effects on an actual infection it may have. If we can vaccinate 90% of adults over 16 we will end the pandemic provided mutant strains don’t surface that render the vaccine ineffective. Keep the focus on the most important cohorts we won’t be ready to vaccinate kids until the fall anyway. We can do adequate due diligence and begin with older children ages 12-16 first and move younger from there if needed.
https://www.americanactionforum.org/insight/tracker-the-federal-reserves-balance-sheet/
If it took 4 trillion to save Wall Street and nearly 4 trillion and counting to get us through the pandemic with it all still sitting on the FEDs balance sheet. How the heck are they going to shut off the spigot without crashing the market?
We are back to the same two choices that plagued us in 2008. Either pull the bandage off slowly, which really equates to continuing to purchase assets to keep this artificial rally afloat at an enormous cost to future generations. Or rip the bandage off all at once, suffering some short-term pain, but not acting like the asshole “greatest generation,” before us.
The decision is easy (thanks to JJ). Race to the bottom. Yippee kayee motherfukcers! Get ready for the greatest rally ever. To be shortly followed by the Great Depression II. Remember to take some off the table this Summer, Fall and Winter folks.
Of course, then there’s THIS chart, https://fredblog.stlouisfed.org/2017/02/two-tales-of-federal-debt
Though remember, that second chart on the bottom only looks this way due to the decrease in interest rates. If interest rates go the other way (and I don’t know how or why they wouldn’t over time), it’s game over for the reserve currency (or at least it’s high bond rating).
https://www.jhinvestments.com/ready-for-rising-rates
By the way, the dollar is down 11% as the reserve currency since March of last year. If course, the next conundrum becomes, who gets to be the next reserve currency. Japan(Yen) is stable but too small. Euro is the 2nd largest currency used for global exchange, but their banks are a fragmented mess. That leave the Renminbi (China), though it’s government controlled and manipulated.
Hope you all enjoyed your macro economic current events class.
CHi -re: “My kids have not taken the bus one single time this entire year.”
Yes my mistake. They get to play around in the morning while waiting for the bus. The boys were tossing around a football this morning, and the girls were playing a game too, just being kids. Few parents do play dates now, so the few minutes of playing and socializing with the other kids in our development is good for them.
I will perhaps drop them off that for the rest of the this year, if I can get a negative test on Sunday and convince the nurse to accept it next week, having them home until May 12th is not going to be fun that is for sure. My wife already wants to kill me and them….
Juice, I feel for you. My son and daughter missed a month of school because of covid quarantine nonsense (considering they’ve only been back since late Jan), it was essentially 25% of the in person year. Meanwhile, when my son was tested, he was already fully recovered from symptoms. Daughter never had symptoms and tested negative 3 times.
We literally pulled them out of the virtual classroom, asked the teachers to send home work, and we went through it with them on our own. Much easier than having our kids sit behind a screen for 5 hours getting depressed.
Grim,
Economics lesson in moderation. Probably due to multiple links. I think it’s interesting. If you do too, unmod please.
Harvard says:
Are kids any more or less likely than adults to spread coronavirus?
Most children who become infected with the COVID-19 virus have no symptoms, or they have milder symptoms such as low-grade fever, fatigue, and cough. Early studies suggested that children do not contribute much to the spread of coronavirus. But more recent studies raise concerns that children could be capable of spreading the infection.
Though the recent studies varied in their methods, their findings were similar: infected children had as much, or more, coronavirus in their upper respiratory tracts as infected adults.
The amount of virus found in children — their viral load — was not correlated with the severity of their symptoms. In other words, more virus did not mean more severe symptoms.
Finding high amounts of viral genetic material — these studies measured viral RNA, not live virus — in kids does not prove that children are infectious. However, the presence of high viral loads in infected children does increase the concern that children, even those without symptoms, could readily spread the infection to others.
—————————————–
Personally, I don’t think these vaccines are unsafe. I also don’t think you’ll get 90% of the adult population to get them. Not based on an informal survey of the blue collars I spoke with at work. It gets worse with blacks. They all think this is Tuskegee Two.
My opinion is that these vaccines have been tested plenty. These are vaccines. For fukcs sake, half the population drink’s Red Bull and pops Airborne pills and could care less what sh1t they put into their body. Anyone who has raised a kid knows we inoculate for tons of sh1t already and the track record for safety has been virtually 100%.
Look at this list. https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/schedules/hcp/imz/child-adolescent.html
Let’s just get this thing done. These vaccines were rigidly tested. Why the assumption that they weren’t? The increased demand only served to speed up the testing timeline. With the variants we are seeing, thank god they did.
https://www.nj.com/education/2021/04/another-nj-college-to-require-students-to-get-covid-vaccine-before-returning-for-fall-semester.html
A seventh New Jersey college — Drew University — says students must be fully vaccinated against the coronavirus by the time time the fall semester begins.
Students who take online only courses are exempt, with the private school in Madison to consider other medical and religious exceptions, it said in a statement. Drew officials are still considering whether or not vaccines will be required from faculty and staff members.
re: “mutant strains” – So far evidence suggests it has not mutated to defeat the immunity created by the mRNA vaccines. Right now the mRNA vaccines are the safest most effective vaccines because they only target only the specific spike protein that creates the receptor recognition, viral attachment, and entry into host cells.
But if infections continue it will mutate. The higher the proportion of a population vaccinated, the lower the number of susceptible individuals, and the fewer opportunities SARS-CoV-2 will have to mutate. Moderna and Pfizer are working on it to quickly reformulate if needed if any evidence emerges that particular variants do appear to influence vaccine efficacy. They say it is is possible to quickly reformulate the vaccines so that they better match the circulating strains.
We can defeat this virus but it will need to include children getting vaccinated ASAP as well so any infection does not have a chance to evolve with a resistance to immunity induced by the mRNA spike protein vaccines. We also need to lead here and get the rest of the world vaccinated. What maters most is to not give this virus any more time to mutate.
There was a meeting on Monday with Biden’s import Czar and the vaccine makers. There is a war going on because some say Biden via executive order should create a waiver of Intellectual Property rights to allow mass production of more vaccine around the world anywhere anyhow etc.
Problem is while this war wages over Intellectual Property rights there is a good chance countries like Brazil and India who now have unchecked infection rates could have an economic collapse, mass deaths, and political dysfunction that could accelerate global disorder without the vaccines that actually work. This vaccine dilemma could also give the virus enough infected hosts and time to mutate into something more lethal that cannot be stopped by existing vaccines and treatments.
The rich of course are against any waiver for Intellectual Property rights for the vaccines. Bill Gates says other countries cannot make the vaccines safely for example.
https://truthout.org/articles/billionaire-bill-gates-says-no-to-sharing-vaccine-recipes-with-poor-countries/
Tick Tock, it’s only going to get worse it seems..
grim, your pro-vax for children stance is not based in science, it’s every bit as emotionally driven as the anti-vax stance. When your response is “idiot”, it means you do not have an articulate argument.
Why on earth would I waste the time making an articulate argument on this topic? It’s basically religion for people now.
Yes, some people selfishly think the vaccine is (potentially) more dangerous than the risk of being infected by Covid-19. These people can enjoy their freedom with all of their like minded fellow humans on Moron Island.
The emergency use authorization is a hollow argument, we’re talking about a set of vaccines that might be the most studied and most scrutinized in the history of vaccine development. You generally hear this paired with “long-term studies”, because doing so creates an almost indefensible anti-vax position in their eyes. Ha Ha – See how brilliant I am in crafting the argument, you can’t possibly defend unless you have a time machine.
How much time is enough time to make you comfortable? They can’t ever answer that question.
This argument is almost always paired with a downplay of COVID, driven by denialism. Covid is not so bad, media manipulation, government overreach, blah blah blah. Why rush a vaccine if the virus isn’t really bad as we thought? Meanwhile, we’re now burning piles of bodies in India in a scene reminiscent of the Plague.
EUA is nonsense anyway. Phase 1, 2 and 3 are complete. We are in Phase 4, it just does not have the rubber stamp of approval from the bureaucrats which will take several more years. Even licensed vaccines that were studied for many years have been pulled because of adverse effects that have been found later on in the data. The whole idea here is post-licensure is to monitor and we do that better than anybody. Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System (or VAERS) and other data they collect on all vaccines. They very reason there was a quick pause on the J&J Vaccine is due to the real time monitoring. Some bureaucrat saw a blip in the data and they quickly stopped administering the J&J vaccine. Astra Zeneca is on hold probably do the adverse events in Europe and not here.
Nothing in medicine is 100% foolproof. Nature will see to it that we all meet our maker earlier than we might like whether it is a disease, cancer, or an exploding aorta. We are going to have to take it one shot at a time anyway, we are long past animal testing. Only way to find out now is the vaccine game of chance that is life. The Pfizer vaccine for kids 12-16 should be approved soon, phase three is complete. If you don’t want the vaccine for you and yours then stay home and quarantine and let the rest of us risk takers get on with life.
Worth noting, we are going to need widespread vaccination to fix the widespread mental health crisis we’ve created.
The widespread mental health crisis is fixable.
Just read up on the 1949 Nobel Prize for Medicine, “discovery of the therapeutic value of leucotomy in certain psychoses”.
I hear as a bonus it also fixes the “Karen” issue too.
“And there you have it, why everyone, including children, should be vaccinated – and it’s not reducing personal risk…”
It is always about personal risk when you are putting a foreign substance into someone’s body. The entire FDA approval process – both the EUA and PMA – explicitly weighs benefit vs. risk. Risk is literally integral to the process.
“People who do become infected with the coronavirus three weeks after receiving a single dose…were between 38% and 49% less likely to pass the virus on to their household contacts than those who were unvaccinated…”
So in other words for a anyone under the age of 29 vaccination provided no change in household transmission rates in up to 62% of the cases?
“The emergency use authorization is a hollow argument, we’re talking about a set of vaccines that might be the most studied and most scrutinized in the history of vaccine development.”
Absolutely not true. Flat out incorrect. If they warranted a PMA they would have received one. They haven’t, there simply is not enough data. Moreover, the EUA allows for much higher risk tolerance for fewer benefits than a PMA. Read the FDA regs, I know a little about this topic. LOL, real world example, EUA allows manufacturers to have GMP (good manufacturing processes) waived. Remind me, how many JNJ vials were tossed in the bin because a third party manufacturer with no GMP and multiple violations crossed production lines? EUA and PMA are entirely different animals.
“You are an idiot.”
Never witnessed closed minded alarmism and ad hominem insults from you in the 10+ years I’ve been on here. Not a good color on you…..
Is this why ice picks keep coming up on my Amazon recommendations?
The days of the “Jonas Salk” type of oligarch are long gone.
“The rich of course are against any waiver for Intellectual Property rights for the vaccines. Bill Gates says other countries cannot make the vaccines safely for example.”
Kids shouldn’t be forced to get it in order to get into college until boomers are forced to get it in order to collect social security, Medicare, and public pensions.
What’s good for the goose…
Leftwing – your fly is open.
BLA to the FDA for vaccines. Biologics License Application (BLA).
In this case to bypass the BLA process they went to the VRBPAC for EUA approval. Vaccines and Related Biological Products Advisory Committee (VRBPAC).
Ok, so PFE is planning to submit for the BLA this year, suspect Moderna will be quickly following. So once the BLA is in place, are you good with adding it to the childhood vaccination requirements?
Have to give this guy credit for supporting his wife. Of course, it’s going down in flames Jersey style with Soprano accents.
A thanks to all of the engineers and scientists who develop these cameras so we can see what humans are really like.
It might be cheaper to keep her, but you would need a good accountant to figure that out.
https://www.reddit.com/r/PublicFreakout/comments/mzrx3y/nj_vice_principal_tossed_beer_at_diners_after/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3
“Let’s just get this thing done. These vaccines were rigidly tested. Why the assumption that they weren’t?”
Lib, you literally make this comment in a post with a study telling us about six basic items unknown about the virus and this vaccine in children.
The posts in between yours and this one all discuss the constantly changing CDC guidelines…they are adjusting on the fly. Fine, if we’re talking about a kid missing five (or is it ten, or fifteen) days of school. Different story if you want to inject something in my kid’s arm when he has a 0.000018 chance of an adverse outcome otherwise.
And see my post above, this vaccine has not been evaluated with anywhere near the rigor of other existing vaccines or approved therapeutics on the market.
The acting on this one is superb. Too bad it’s not a movie.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_wnQFE5-x7g&t=39s
BTW – Quick read through the FDA guidance for the BLA for vaccine production and “marketing” of a Covid-19 vaccine. At first glance it would seem our pharmaceutical companies meet most of the rigorous requirements. Example would be the quality control testing and monitoring that the J&J vaccine failed, same one that Leftwing mentioned.
We are all in the long term study now for the official BLA, all of us that got vaccinated anyway.
Bill Gates has a point about the third world making vaccines, they don’t have the FDA to do quality control monitoring and inspections. But the FDA only approves it for the USA, not India for example.
I would say Biden might pull the trigger on an Executive Order if India gets worse, we need them as an ally as China in now trying to tempt them to their side. No different really politically than supplying Egypt with money and arms every year since the Camp David peace accords in 1978. Before that Egypt used to get that military hardware and support from Russia.
If you are bored…..read this.
https://www.fda.gov/media/139638/download
And see my post above, this vaccine has not been evaluated with anywhere near the rigor of other existing vaccines or approved therapeutics on the market.
Pretty sure you aren’t going to change your mind when approvals are granted later this year.
“Leftwing – your fly is open.”
JCer, thanks for that correction. But I would argue your statement below is inverted…
“If you don’t want the vaccine for you and yours then stay home and quarantine and let the rest of us risk takers get on with life.”
If one is vulnerable (or so fearful) they need to take the vaccine with 90%+ efficacy or stay home. Let everyone else get on with life. That’s the way it should have been since last year.
Grim,
Are you so sure that there won’t be long term effects from this vaccine?
And why is it right that a youth entering college forced to take it, when a Boomer, one COLLECTING Medicare benefits, does not?
Kid gets sick, he pays his own bills. Boomer gets sick, we pay their bills.
I’d force boomers to take it before anyone under 30.
If the stuff turns out defective, well, the old goats have lived a long life already.
Phoenix,
That beer-tossing video is classic! lol! Yo! Hey!! Getthefukattahere!! Even better was this comment:
British Narrator Voice:
“Now witness the primal reaction from the native new jersian”.
“Notice the drawn out inflection on “outta here” ”. “A strong warning to STAY AWAY!”
I can hear David Attenborough doing the narration!! Lol
Lol, as it turns out following the guidance has been the riskiest path to take. I can’t argue there.
The pols and bureaucrats have gotten a lot of people killed in this pandemic with their guesswork and misinformation.
The great leadership in this state has led to the highest per capita deaths anywhere but you don’t hear much of that from the propaganda industry
I’ll continue to selectively follow which includes passing on the current vaccine for children.
Phoenix – Looked him up Vice Principal in Neptune making $120,000. Pension system says he is only 14 years in joined in 2007. That is not enough I gather to take an early retirement. So the wife’s drunken big mouth and his own beer tossing might mean bread lines all because there was a shlong in the woman’s rest room.
Leftwing,
No amount of math/science can account for the risks of a variant occuring that will make much of our efforts up to this point moot. Let’s talk probability and then common sesnse, since that’s your defense. And nothing’s personal, of course, but you already know that. This is just a healthy discussion.
If kids can infect adults and adults can choose not to be vaccinated, then what the hell are your options here?
Weighing risks, do you honestly believe there is likely to be some kind of health issue that will arise in kids 12-15 that has not yet shown up in kids aged 16-18? Over 1,000,000,000 doses have been administered in the world already. And from what bullsh1t vaccine injuries lawyers have somehow conjured up a living out of making believe occurred. They have nearly all been immediate.
So my common sense, which is my strongest trait IMO tells me the risk of a mutation forcing me back into seclusion for another year or two (or decade if we are not so lucky this time around finding a vaccine) is two great compared to inoculating younger humans. Perhaps not yet the 0-5 cohort since perhaps we’ll get herd immunity without them and more time might be needed to see how the vaccine impacts the massively developing brain organs. But certainly, humans post puberty should be fine based on what we know so far.
You know it’s funny. First the freechoicers told old people and fat people to stay inside until there is a vaccine. It didn’t work too well for the old people, but the fat people who generally listened survived. Now we are telling the fat people to go back inside since “I” shouldn’t be told what to do and if I don’t want the vaccine, then I’m not going to get it. Fat people and surviving old people be damned! Though there is less than zero evidence that the vaccine is dangerous and the history of vaccines makes it entirely unlikely that this vaccine is, my science denying free choice is more important than eradicating a plague.
It just doesn’t make sense on any level. It’s why Grim, and myself to less of an extent, think your opinion is not well reasoned. Especially if it is based on balancing the risks.
At
“Ok, so PFE is planning to submit for the BLA this year, suspect Moderna will be quickly following. So once the BLA is in place, are you good with adding it to the childhood vaccination requirements? Pretty sure you aren’t going to change your mind when approvals are granted later this year.”
I live my life a certain way with a firm set of morals and philosophies. Always have. On full display here, most simply classified as libertarian.
I firmly believe that the vast majority of items in life should be personal choice, paired with personal responsibility for the outcomes (both positive and negative). The data behind this virus, vaccine, and outcomes as it relates to children show me no reason whatsoever to have my healthy child vaccinated. I continue to maintain that ought to be my (their) choice.
Having said that, I recognize the State has the right to impose certain limits to one’s freedoms through laws and regulations.
So, an answer to your direct question “am I good with adding these vaccines to childhood vaccination requirements?”
It is the same answer as to why I pay alimony…..
There is no moral, ethical, or religious basis to either and both are affronts to personal freedoms and are ‘takings’ in the most basic sense, however, the State has the power to do so and if I want to continue to participate in wider society compliance would be mandatory.
So strap me down and take my money, and strap my kid down and inject something in his arm. USA, USA, USA!!!
Hey, what can I say. I married the wrong one too. The difference is I would not have supported her if she did something this stupid, which is what I didn’t do when I was married.
Then she went all bat sh iii te crazy using the authorities as a weapon. It’s pretty effective let me tell you, cause a few, not all, in my town are like the guy in the video I posted above.
He should have just put his arm around her, said she had a bit much to drink, apologized for the Karen he made the misfortune of marrying, and left with his career intact and some money for his attorneys.
Now he will pay for them with his unemployment funds.
LW I agree.
They are only forcing the youth, but not the adults. Where I work the vaccine is optional.
But some stupid college is demanding they take it.
Hey, we are almost at the anniversary of Kent state. Time for another protest over what the government wants to force the youth to do when the old goats of America are not participating themselves.
Do you know what’s really sad too. That the CDC is relaxing mask wearing and separation requirements for those vaccinated, probably less because one is less likely to spread Covid once vaccinated. But mainly to try and convince the members of society who lack common sense and care for their human brethren to take what is the best path to eradicate Covid.
Boy I’d love to know how they got these videos, cause when I tried I was greeted by about 7 of them asking me why I wanted them, then told they didn’t have them anymore.
I should have pressed the issue.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2021/04/27/karen-garner-video-loveland-officers-mocking/
Are the Jets getting an elite QB? Are they signing Brady from Tampa?
Coming off the back of my 2nd Moderna. Honestly the first hit me harder. I think the hydration helped as I made sure I was pounding water.
What is interesting as we live this experiment called life it what is now occurring in Israel. They are now firmly stuck at 62% vaccinated for covid-19. There have plenty of vaccine so it seems to imply that anti-vaxxers are beyond the reach of community engagement activities.
The idea here is that the vaccine is recommended and not required might have to change and be enforced. Scientists say we need to be 70%,or 80% or 90% to eradiate this virus. So how far will the state go to vaccinate? Pay people as an incentive? Ban them from all activities? Send in squads of goons with batons, tasers and needles? Lock them up?
There could even be increased anti-vax activities as the government attempts to reach this idea of herd immunity. Could there even be armed confrontations down the road here and elsewhere in the world over this vaccine. Who will the casualties be besides personal liberty? Will children go without an education? Will communities of antivaxxers form in the real world and not just online?
Don’t worry, the boomers are itching to sail around the world with their stimmy money, incubate a new strain, then cry on the ship that they want to go home and seed the stuff all over America cause it’s all about them and their needs.
This vid was funny to all of the youth that watched it cause they know it’s true.
” I’ve got 5 houses, good for me.”
https://youtu.be/2hekDuCBxCc
Good reply Lib.
Only thing I would note is that your argument is premised on the potential of a variant, and that the variant “shuts” us down again for an extended period of time.
Given I see the responses to the original virus as an entire shitshow, especially the shutdown, that is where we differ.
I go back to the premise I had in March, 2020 and have maintained since then. For this virus, or anything quite frankly.
Make an assessment of your personal risk. Act accordingly, and be prepared to live with the consequences.
Pretty simple, but maybe I’m just simpleminded.
Phoenix – re: “I’d love to know how they got these videos”
Politicians and those that aspire to higher office of course.
New Jersey Attorney General dropped some videos this week of an unarmed white man in South Jersey getting whacked by the cops earlier this month.
https://www.courierpostonline.com/story/news/2021/04/27/buena-vista-franklin-police-shooting-jernegan-jackel/4861744001/
No word from any famous civil rights attorneys yet.
Juice,
Guess I didn’t have the right connections. But one thing was for sure, they wanted me out of that building.
When you ask for a video and 7 armed men show up, you get the message.
Separately, not liking the price action in some big stocks today…..MSFT, AAPL.
AAPL reports tonight. Not feeling good about the market in general if it dumps.
Sell in May to the day, lol?
To date:
277 children aged 17 and under have died of COVID
1,200 aged 15 and under die annually as passengers in vehicles
74 million people are under the age of 17
Your child is 5x more likely (at least) to die as a passenger in a motor vehicle accident than from COVID.
If adults declining to vaccinate their child reside on “Moron Island”, where do people who drive their children around reside?
Please forward a home address, DYFS wants to know given the risk to which you are subjecting your child.
And for those without a calculator the raw numbers are worth repeating…
Since COVID began, 277 children under the age of 17 have passed away. Total.
277 out of 74,000,000.
That is a death rate of 0.000003.
Literally most activities of daily life have a higher death rate. More people certainly die in crosswalks, on bicycles, etc.
But, hey, strap the kids down and inject them. Why not?
Ha. That’s a lame argument. When you drive your kid in your car, you are not putting the entire population of the world at risk.
Moron Island is pretty nice this time of the year. At least that’s what Phoenix’ ex-wife told me.
Leftwing,
It’s not about saving them from dying. It’s about stopping them from being carriers to end a plague.
It’s really that simple.
I think you are having a mental block with this one.
“When you drive your kid in your car, you are not putting the entire population of the world at risk.”
Drama queen much? :)
Guess an unvaccinated six year old will replace our nuclear arsenal as the first line of defense against Russia…..
But keep lying to yourself…facts suck, I know:
When a child is buckled into the back seat of his parent’s care he 5x as likely to die than if he were forego vaccination.
Sorry, missing a verb or two…
When a child is buckled into the back seat of his parent’s care he is 5x as likely to die than if he were to forego vaccination.
Without herd immunity, the entire population of the world is at risk. Really not that dramatical.
So your position is, we should live with Covid for the rest of our lives and those with comorbidities or those who are immunocompromised should just lock themselves in solitary confinement for the rest of their lives.
Sounds fair to me.
“It’s not about saving them from dying. It’s about stopping them from being carriers to end a plague. It’s really that simple. I think you are having a mental block with this one.”
Not really. The study you posted earlier states the science is still out on children as carriers.
Moreover, where the science is clear is that you need prolonged contact for transmission and the vaccines are 95% effective for those who take them.
As I’ve always maintained, it is in the control of any individual how exposed they choose to be to the virus. A vaccinated adult has effectively zero chance of an adverse outcome after casual contact with an unvaccinated child.
For those who like to take the exception to prove a point to be clear, no, I am not advocating sending an unvaccinated kindergarten class to perform a two hour Christmas show in the dining room of a long term care facility…..
Lol, as it turns out following the guidance has been the riskiest path to take. I can’t argue there.
The pols and bureaucrats have gotten a lot of people killed in this pandemic with their guesswork and misinformation.
Don’t conflate the drug makers with the government. If the CDC developed the vaccine, I wouldn’t take it either.
Left,
Please run for president.
I beg you.
Phoenix,
You go back the next morning when its quiet, smile and ask politely to file an OPRA request with the front desk. Have the paperwork ready. Answer all questions with a smile. You are happy to pay, whenever you get to it, I would be grateful if you could check to confirm.
Smile and wave.
https://njopra.com/how-to-file-an-opra-request/
The idea here is that the vaccine is recommended and not required might have to change and be enforced. Scientists say we need to be 70%,or 80% or 90% to eradiate this virus. So how far will the state go to vaccinate? Pay people as an incentive? Ban them from all activities? Send in squads of goons with batons, tasers and needles? Lock them up?
Even more interesting, will Israel vaccinate her enemies?
277 children aged 17 and under have died of COVID
1,200 aged 15 and under die annually as passengers in vehicles
74 million people are under the age of 17
Your child is 5x more likely (at least) to die as a passenger in a motor vehicle accident than from COVID.
You can’t challenge the new mindset with this kind of logic. Health issues are rarely looked at in a rational light. Stu is right, eradication is the only solution at this point, and anything that gets us there faster should be the strategy.
I don’t agree with the CDC recommendation, even though I know it’s entirely logical. Why? Because it means “no masks required anymore anywhere” for millions of people. It’s not that the rationale and logic are wrong, it’s that the unexpected consequences are larger than they realize.
“Without herd immunity, the entire population of the world is at risk. Really not that dramatical. So your position is, we should live with Covid for the rest of our lives and those with comorbidities or those who are immunocompromised should just lock themselves in solitary confinement for the rest of their lives.”
One last post because we seem to be at a crossroads…
The entire population of earth is not at risk because of COVID. That is just flat out ridiculous. C’mon man….
A very small part of the population has died due to COVID, overwhelmingly concentrated among certain readily identifiable groups. Mostly the elderly with co-morbidities.
Moreover, the vaccine is 95% effective at preventing SYMPTOMS. Higher at preventing hospitalizations and deaths.
When you cross the normal probabilities associated with COVID and overlay the protections afforded by the vaccine the risk is so infinitesimal to the population of Earth so as to be nearly immeasurable.
The already highly vulnerable population? No, they don’t have to become hermits but any population of this sort is living on borrowed time. Just a fact, and they may need to make some lifestyle adjustments.
Just like if you have a BMI of 35 with an LAD obstruction it would be advisable to avoid shoveling after a snow storm unless you want to be one of the 10,000 annually making a trip to the ER…same difference.
Anyone know if there are any negative long term side effects of MRNA vaccines?
If they claim they do they are lying.
Comparing long term side effects among the Pfizer and Moderna trials has become hampered because upon approval, intentional or not, they gave the vaccine to the members of the placebo group.
So these vaccines could well end this pandemic.
They could also lead to the biggest healthcare debacle in history.
Why not wait a few years before jabbing our kids with it until there’s more certainty?
There’s little to be gained from it because they are practically immune from Covid to start and the vast majority of scientific literature shows they aren’t a source of spread.
I’d like things to go back to normal as much as the next person but giving these to kids in this circumstance seems like some Dr. Mengele type shit.
When is this finally going to end? That’s the question on many minds after a year of living through the COVID-19 pandemic.
But public health experts say we do have an answer, and you’re not going to like it: COVID-19 is never going to end. It now seems poised to become an endemic disease — one that is always a part of our environment, no matter what we do.
“We’ve been told that this virus will disappear. But it will not,” Dr. William Schaffner, a professor at the Vanderbilt University School of Medicine and medical director of the National Foundation For Infectious Diseases, tells CBS News.
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/covid-19-endemic-disease-never-going-away/
“Left, Please run for president.”
Phoenix, dude, I thought you liked me? I wouldn’t wish that upon my worst enemy lol.
Liburd at 12:59 . . .
“entire population of the world is at risk.”
I don’t know if you’re aware of this, but I’ve had multiple friends go to the party cities of the South (Nashville, Florida, etc.) the last few months. 20% of people at grocery stores are wearing masks down there. You’ll get funny looks for wearing a mask. Young people are packing into the bars and dancing on tables like before covid and they have been at it like this for months. I’ve seen the videos. All the NJ people are shocked at first when they see this in-person with their own eyes, then they just start getting aggravated at all the restrictions we’ve been living with.
Based on what I’ve seen on instagram and such, you would expect an India-style bodyburning insanity down in TN, FL, Carolinas, but . . . it didn’t happen.
Something is very weird with covid, because it seems like all the masking and restrictions didn’t actually help. It will be interesting when the facts come out after more scientific study and whatnot.
There’s little to be gained from it because they are practically immune from Covid to start and the vast majority of scientific literature shows they aren’t a source of spread.
We shut down the schools, stopped going on vacations, shut down sports, hampered them from playing outdoors or with neighborhoods. We scared the hell out of society with stories about children contracting COVID and having serious negative outcomes.
Just the same, we have no placebo group here either, so how are you so confident to make this assumption without data? What kind of Mengele shit went on to knowingly expose kids to COVID to get this data?
Fab,
Way too much time has past. It’s a done deal now. But I’d bet those stormtroopers all watched the video and saw how my ex played their colleague. She is good at using the victim card. The second cop had his head hanging down cause unlike the first one he actually looked at my email-he knew his buddy was played trying to be a hero to the “damsel in distress.”
Or maybe he wanted to hook up with her later, who knows?
And how he did this in front of my child-she is not forgetting. The kid is smart.
So Grim,
Why not force Medicare patients to take it before forcing college students?
1. They are most likely to get sick or die, so most at risk.
2. Unlike college kids, who pay their own health insurance, a boomer that refuses is costing everyone money. You want the free benefits, roll up your sleeve. No problem telling welfare people they should get jobs, so why not this? A bit hypocritical is it not?
3. A young person, should they get it, is more likely to need much less costly treatment.
And women vs men- more women in healthcare by a longshot, so that skews the numbers a bit.
Plus there are more old women to vaccinate, as they live longer.
Of the 28.7 million aged 65 to 74, 15.3 mil- lion were female while 13.4 million were male. There were about 2 million more females (8.1 million) than males (6.2 million) among the 75 to 84 age group. Nearly twice as many females (4.1 million) as males (2.2 million) were 85 and older.
And the old joke, why do women live longer than men?
Plenty of reasons.
We shut down the schools, stopped going on vacations, shut down sports, hampered them from playing outdoors or with neighborhoods. We scared the hell out of society with stories about children contracting COVID and having serious negative outcomes.
Mommies did all of this- well, at least most of it.
I’ve learned first hand on what it’s like when the government, in “Superior” court, makes decisions on what is “best for the child.”
The only thing you need to know about government intervention/intrusion into your life is that you best avoid it every chance you have.
Kids are humans.
Covid disease results from exposure of humans to the Covid virus.
Despite best efforts there’s no way to prevent exposure of humans to coronavirus.
Essentially there’s no active decision in the matter or control.
Directly administering a vaccine to children is both an active decision and completely within societal control.
Choosing to administer to children while not knowing the long term side effect profile of the vaccine smacks of something Dr Mengele would do.
Something is very weird with covid, because it seems like all the masking and restrictions didn’t actually help. It will be interesting when the facts come out after more scientific study and whatnot.
Our entire lockdown ended up being completely pointless the instant they thought of the great idea to send positive patients back into nursing homes. We were the grocery workers building a tower of oranges and Murph is the moron who goes and pulls one from the bottom.
Hehehe,
Why is it different with children than with adults?
Oh, if you call could have seen the sh1t we pumped through my kid’s body. Stuff so toxic that you could not even allow him to wear clothes for the point of contact would cause burns and potential infection. I understand the numbers. I had to make decisions that traded off serious loss in IQ to increase his survivability by somewhere between ten and twenty percent. I watched a three-year old cough up softball sized mucous balls of blood. Between bouts of vomit without even opening his eyes or letting out a whimper. Perhaps the morphine he was on had something to do with it, but it changes one’s perspective on what is risky and what is not.
Now, when I see a new mother high hurdle two picnic tables because her toddler is about to eat an uncircumsized grape or godforbid, a peanut. I can’t help but laugh.
This is how I feel about a vaccine that is extremely unlikely to pose any harm.
We can agree to disagree. Just know where I am coming from.
“entire population of the world is at risk….you would expect an India-style bodyburning insanity down in TN, FL, Carolinas, but . . . it didn’t happen.”
It didn’t happen because even before a even vaccine existed and with no therapeutics the death rate was below 1%…..Seriously, how can you even type the above with a straight face?
C’mon, you are both smart and educated, stop undercutting yourself. I mean statements like that are just downright embarrassing.
And can we please leave the politics out.
60 people died yesterday in NJ from covid. Less than 2 died in car accidents. Covid is fukcing real and not everyone who is dying is living in a nursing home or has a BMI over 30.
And if you thinks masks don’t work and the lockdowns did not achieve anything, then go volunteer at the ICU in Hackensack. Otherwise, just shut the hell up with your Trumpy delusions. Sheesh. You would think after he destroyed the Republican Party, people might wise up just a little. Then again, the population of Moron Island continues to astound me.
If any of you had to extrapolate, when do we go back to a point where everything appears normal again? When do we walk into Target or Shop Rite without a mask and when do those plexiglass barriers get removed from the check out lanes? Six months from now? One year?
Why not force Medicare patients to take it before forcing college students?
I agree, we should have mandatory vaccinations for adults, with no religious exemption.
The challenge is, we have no mechanism for it. We do it for kids, using school entry as the excuse/gatekeeper.
Perhaps we should do it as a pre-requisite for entry into Medicare/Medicaid, that’s a brilliant idea.
Without a gate, there is no mechanism to enforce it. School isn’t the reason for the vaccines, it’s the enforcement mechanism.
Travel becomes another possible gatekeeper. Mandatory covid vaccinations for international travel. Not to protect you, but to prevent you from bringing it back.
Lockdowns made sense for about a 2 month period max. If you wanted to go 3 into May last year for additional safety….fine. Made no sense after that. After that, reopening should have been phased in. What surely doesn’t make sense is the authoritarian desire to continue restrictions now and what’s even more scary is the authoritarian desire to keep restrictions in place well into the future.
leftwing at 2:11 . . .
I suppose what I typed might have mis-communicated a bit. I was just shooting out a post without writing carefully.
My point above was, based on my personal viewing of social media posts from people in the South and visiting the South, over this spring, masking and social distancing is NOT being practiced on a mass scale in the American South. Despite this, the infection rates pretty much tracked NJ, where masking and social distancing is being practiced. I would have expected infection rates in teh Southern States to be much-different than NJ/NY/PA, etc., but the infection rates were not taht different. The only time that NJ diverged from the South was during the South’s July 2020 wave. Since then, it’s been very similar even though the populace in NJ is masking and such and our government continues to keep restrctions in place, while in the South it is different.
If any of you had to extrapolate, when do we go back to a point where everything appears normal again? When do we walk into Target or Shop Rite without a mask and when do those plexiglass barriers get removed from the check out lanes? Six months from now? One year?
With continued/expanded vaccination, 2 more years. Masks however, it’s likely that you’ll see them forever, especially in situations like Airports.
Mandatory covid vaccinations for international travel. Not to protect you, but to prevent you from bringing it back.
And similar to schools, this is already in place for some destinations.
“60 people died yesterday in NJ from covid.”
Population: 9.3 million
COVID Death rate: 0.000006 of the population.
Newsflash: People die. At a rate of 205 a day in NJ during 2019.
More relevant, any details around those expired? Age, co-morbidities, vaccinated?
Odds on favorite bet is that zero were young (55 under), healthy, and vaccinated.
It may be scary to some but……YOU are in control of YOUR own destiny regarding this virus. Assess your personal risk, act appropriately.
No one told me about Covid when I ate that third slice of pizza!
left – it’s a done deal, the statistics are irrelevant, nobody is going to change their mind because somehow someone presented the facts slightly differently.
The only hope of a return to any kind of normalcy is complete eradication.
You don’t think 5 deaths a day will keep the same restrictions in place? I bet you money, as long as the death rate is equal or greater than 1, the drum beating will continue. Hell, why would Murphy ever stop?
The impact we’ve made to American psychology is monumental, and the impact is greater than the virus, and the duration will be far longer than the virus.
Phoenix
Another awesome video. Bennies rumbling down in the pine barrens. “Take a waulllk”.
Don’t hear accents like that in DFW too often.
And for the record, I’ve been on record for a while now about opening things up way more than they are where it makes most sense.
I am also in support of ending this debacle as quickly as possible. Anyone want to bet me 10:100 that the MRNa vaccines will be safe for kids? $10 if I’m right. $100 if you are.
I’d also be willing to bet that the long-term impact of having had Covid will prove to be way more damaging than any future side effects from the current vaccines.
Libturd,
Sincerely sorry about your child
Doesn’t have anything to do with what I posted.
1) Masks do little to prevent the spread of Covid. I wish they did but they don’t. It’s born out by the case counts in every jurisdiction that’s instituted a mask mandate. Seriously you’d see the case counts plummet if they worked. They don’t even budge. They might be useful in a crowded subway or elevator. Still don’t get people walking outdoors with a mask on.
2) The age stratified and other data put out by the CDC, WHO, every single state and country in the world show Covid deaths are primarily all above 75 yoa and/or those younger who are obese and/or suffering from the diseases that coincide with being obese (diabetes, heart disease, asthma etc)
Those are just statistical facts that have nothing to do with politics.
Even Bill Maher points it out:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Qp3gy_CLXho
It’s quite comical how politicized Covid and the response to it has become.
It’s a public health issue that while not the flu is certainly closer to that end of the spectrum than the smallpox or plague which is the way the CDC and some of these governors are treating it.
crushed, sorry, multi-tasking between here and trading earnings and compromising both, lol.
Totally agree with your FL/TN and NJ data and conclusions. Remember, I bugged out of here when the lockdown was announced early last year, went to FL for 3-4 weeks, and then bumped up to a sibling’s house in TN for a week.
I can verify first person there were little if any of the ‘precautions’ down there I experienced upon return to NJ.
Matter of fact, I distinctly remember posting on here when DeSantis, under incredible misguided pressure from the Left, shut the beaches and how it did nothing but move all the people widely separated outdoors in the sun to ‘outdoor’ bars packed shoulder to shoulder. Zero masks at the time.
Same TN. Getting there after Easter last year it was the same level of activity as times I visited pre-COVID. If what we were being told were true those places should have exploded with infections and deaths relative to the NorthEast. They didn’t. But, hey, mask up and stay home.
I’ve seen first hand a kid go through covid. I’ve also seen first hand a healthy kid get a seizure linked to a vaccine. Unless something changes I’ll pass on the vaccine.
I’d also be willing to bet that the long-term impact of having had Covid will prove to be way more damaging than any future side effects from the current vaccines.
Bingo
“It’s born out by the case counts in every jurisdiction that’s instituted a mask mandate.”
I wholeheartedly disagree with this statement. This is not science. This is politics. Mandates can not be used for scientific measurement. But they sure make for great political statements.
And masks do work. When they are worn properly and are surgical grade instead of a piece of underwear with elastic strings attached.
I am open to talk science. I am not going to argue politics.
There is a reason Covid is not spreading in schools. It’s due to masks. But the moment these kids get together without them, clusters of infection form. But tell me more about mandates. I will be the first to admit that the disease was highly politicised. It still is and it is becoming painfully difficult to watch Dems continue to use fearmongering with it, but was no less painful watching Trump do every single thing he shouldn’t have as POTUS both before and especially during his infection. But let’s leave try really hard to leave politics aside and think for ourselves.
Covid has killed 573,000 people in the US and is still killing nearly 1,000 per day. Personally, I don’t feel those with underlying conditions or those over 75 deserve to die. Sorry for caring for everyone.
It’s the attitudes on display here that explain why a country like Australia can have 1/4th the death rate of the United States.
There’s a reason we are the laughing stock of the developed world.
“I’ve also seen first hand a healthy kid get a seizure linked to a vaccine. ”
Bullsh1t!
Fever is a common symptom of many natural infections, including bacteria such as diphtheria, pertussis, meningococcus and pneumococcus, and viruses such as hepatitis A, hepatitis B, influenza, measles mumps, rubella, polio, rotavirus and varicella. Fever is associated with febrile seizures in infants. Thus, many vaccines prevent fever and febrile seizures by protecting against natural infections. However, all vaccines that cause fever in young children also have a small inherent risk of causing febrile seizures. The first dose of measles-containing vaccines can rarely cause febrile seizures in infants and young children 7-10 days after vaccination, at an estimated rate of 26.4 per 1000 person-years after MMR and 84.6 per 1,000 person-years after MMRV (ProQuad®). Influenza and pneumococcal conjugate vaccines when administered separately can very rarely cause febrile seizures in infants and young children in the 24 hours after vaccination, at an estimated rate of 5 events per 100,000 doses in the U.S. The risk of febrile seizures is increased when influenza and pneumococcal conjugate vaccines are given simultaneously, to an estimated rate of 17.5 per 100,000 doses. The DTaP-IPV-Hib combination vaccine in use in Denmark can very rarely cause febrile seizures in infants and young children, at an estimated rate of less than 4 per 100,000 doses. Whole-cell DTP vaccine did cause febrile seizures, but is no longer used in the United States. Vaccines currently routinely recommended to the general population in the U.S. have not been shown to cause persistent epilepsy or infantile spasms. Febrile seizures are a common and typically benign childhood condition, occurring in 2-5% of children at some point during their first five years of life. Febrile seizures have an estimated background incidence of 240–480 per 100,000 person-years in children under five years, although this varies considerably by age, genetics, co-morbidities and environmental risk factors. There are no long-term effects of simple febrile seizures, with the possible exception of an increased risk of recurrence. Considering the benign nature of simple febrile seizures, the rarity of vaccine-induced febrile seizures and the relative frequency of fever related to natural infection particularly among young children, the benefits of vaccination greatly outweigh the minimal risk of vaccine complications.
Right, and you know everything. Look up febrile seizures and the mmr vax. Never heard of the seizure link until the nurse at Morristown told us.
There have been billions upon billions of vaccinations performed around the world. The incidence of injury is near zero. And in nearly every case where injury was claimed, there was an underlying factor that most likely would have occurred anway. Vaccines are unbelievably safe. You are a moron for believing otherwise. But go support an anti-vaxer author whose only purpose in life is to profit off of weak-minded individuals like your own. How many books did you buy?
“Considering the benign nature of simple febrile seizures, the rarity of vaccine-induced febrile seizures and the relative frequency of fever related to natural infection particularly among young children, the benefits of vaccination greatly outweigh the minimal risk of vaccine complications.”
All politics all the time!
Keep in mind that lots of what was done around mask mandates were intended to destroy social stigma of mask wearing at the time. There were plenty of people that knew masks were beneficial, but didn’t wear them because it was embarrassing.
Elsewhere in the world, this stigma didn’t exist (travel cross-Asia for example). However, mask wearing was a huge stigma here. In fact, many polled on this said they didn’t wear masks, because they didn’t want people to think they were sick. Huh?
In that respect, the mandates were helpful in breaking this down. Though still today there are plenty of folks who would rather be dead than face the embarrassment of being a tough guy that needed to wear a mask.
I think some of the CDC’s flexibility around cloth masks was associated with this as well, by allowing them to be fashionable, familiar, it became easier to break down the stigma, even though they were less effective.
All that said, destroying the social stigma of mask wearing is probably one of the biggest long term health benefits of covid. I won’t fly without one anymore, maybe ever.
It’s funny. I’ve spent over a year of my life in hospitals with some of the highest educated and respected experts in their fields. From brain surgeons to Be it MSK or CHOP or PENN or COLUMBIA or Morristown or RWJ or HUM, the list is endless. In all of these visits with all of these experts, not a one was anti-vax. Not a one. As a matter of fact, it’s simply amazing how many times the topic of anti-vaxers would come up in conversation. I suppose I should trust Dr. Oz and the like. After all, they are on TV.
Choosing not to stick someone who is not in a risk group with an experimental vaccine doesn’t make you anti vaccine. That’s a straw man.
“Experimental”
“There is a reason Covid is not spreading in schools. It’s due to masks.”
It’s because it’s not being diagnosed.
Two of my boys in their 20s discussed vaccination with me.
Turns out the younger was (thankfully) tested before getting jabbed, he tested positive for antibodies. Had COVID at some point in time, doesn’t know when. Would not have been diagnosed had he not gone in ahead of intending to get inoculated.
Older one passed on the vaccine. I remind him as frequently as I can without being a PITA that he ought to get tested as when his work opens they may want a positive diagnosis or vaccine, and to confirm an antigen positive he’ll need a PCR so there is some lead time. I’ll make odds he’s already had it as well.
“I’d also be willing to bet that the long-term impact of having had Covid will prove to be way more damaging than any future side effects from the current vaccines.” “Bingo”
Maybe, maybe not. Nobody knows. But that risk is MY CHOICE.
“But that risk is MY CHOICE”
Yes, your selfish choice. Even though I still love ya.
So much talk since I last looked.
“Fair share of taxes” It’s not your money. If one guy chooses to work 80 hours a week to make as much money as possible, and another one wants to be a junior hockey coach and make less, those are choices. By what right does the government take from the first and give it to the second? Maybe the first guy doesn’t speak Spanish so cannot count on free services in Costa Rica, and thus needs to make and save money for his future while he can. Everyone would be ashamed to go over to a neighbor’s house and steal his Porsche and his wife’s jewelry, but people have no problem sending the IRS to steal it pre-emptively.
Vaccinations. Go for it. I’m pro-vaccine. And these are all “free”. Kids, sure give them the shots, and monitor how it goes. Biden and Murphy probably want the kids in Camden to get the shots first, so they better hope it works out, otherwise it’s just more “genocide”. Considering how much costly misery governments have inflicted via closures, I’d suggest they should have spent far more to reward the pharma companies to make even more vaccine capacity, much more than we would ever need. Think of the diplomatic goodwill the US could have gained giving away half a billion shots to India right now. Or offered the Chicoms a dramatically better shot than their “great leader” and team produced. Demand that every bottle get labeled with a US flag. The US government wastes so much money on all sorts of crap, yet spent a relatively small amount on incentivizing excess vax production. I think it’s because professional enviers were worried that Pharma companies might “get rich” literally saving the world.
Not much talk about the Academy Awards, I guess like me almost nobody watched or cared which crappy “diverse” depressing movie won what, or what dumb speech someone in CA made. I only watched one award winner from last year (Tenet, visual effects winner). I nominate Tenet the most difficult to understand action movie, but it’s a good movie with which to show off a home theater with subwoofer. And Elizabeth Debicki has become expert at reprising the role of “tall skinny young girl who cheats on rich old criminal boyfriend” (see “The Night Manager”).
“It’s the attitudes on display here that explain why a country like Australia can have 1/4th the death rate of the United States.”
Occam’s Razor.
I’ll bet it is more due to Australia implementing testing of all Chinese inbound travelers on Jan 23 and closing their ISLAND borders on March 20….but hey, blame our attitude if it works for you.
“There have been billions upon billions of vaccinations performed around the world. The incidence of injury is near zero.”
There tens upon tens of millions of under-17s in the US. The incidence rate is statistically zero.
Care to comment on how these datasets differ?
An FBI raid on Rudy Giuliani. An FBI raid on Victoria Toensing. Looks like its Rudys turn in the barrel.
https://twitter.com/SethAbramson/status/1387504208136527874
“Keep in mind that lots of what was done around mask mandates were intended to destroy social stigma of mask wearing at the time.”
I see, so our political leaders and the CDC were actually all knowing, not bumbling through their analyses, but had to continually make material changes to what you guys assert are LIFE AND DEATH decisions so that they could break down social stigmas to protect us from even more deaths from the projected behavior they were able to divine we would exhibit at some future date.
Brilliant. How did I miss that.
Any chance they can shed light on what AMZN’s earnings will be for a fella? Or do their Superman supervision powers only extend to prospective virus behavior.
Seriously, you guys accuse people here of being closed minded on vaccines while I have never seen more logical contortions coming from your side to support – somewhere, somehow, anyway – what you personally feel is correct behavior by someone else.
FACTS:
277 out of 74 million children under 17 have died from COVID since it began
Your child is 5x more likely to die as a passenger in your car than from COVID.
Keep your ideas out of my kids’ arms.
One again Leftwing, the kids can spread it to the vulnerable. My life is upside down due to this. We can’t go anywhere since D’s organs are all already half-screwed. We can’t afford to bring it home. So the fact that the three adults in our home and soon our 15 year old in June will be vaccinated in June hardly makes a difference. We still can’t risk bringing it home. My 15 year old is still remote. D is in an isolated class room with isolated teachers who have all been vaccinated.
I have a feeling that there are plenty of other families with similar issues.
Left, what is your stat on how many kids have infected adults?
What is your stat on how much longer we must continue to essentially quarantine due to our personal situational since it will take forever to reach herd immunity if we choose not to inoculate kids.
And with that said, all of my investment club investments are having blockbuster earnings. From Sherwin Williams, and Molina Healthcare, to Facebook and Google. Even Audiocodes earnings were insane. I’m so glad we are not in any of those disruptors! I have a feeling Amazon is going to be mad crazy good.
Just got my 2nd jab. Touche!
Eddie’s a Soc1alist!
“Choosing not to stick someone who is not in a risk group with an experimental vaccine doesn’t make you anti vaccine.”
I’ll go you one better, it is actually unethical to do so. One needs to show benefit to the patient.
Will be interesting to see how the FDA handles big pharma’s trials of younger kids.
Endpoints on the adult studies were symptomatic contraction, hospitalizations, and deaths.
No matter how large the two study groups it will be almost impossible to find a statistical benefit to administering in this age cohort…For example, even if the trial cohort were an outrageous number like 74,000 participants total one would expect only 0.277 of a person dying. Not even one death.
It is literally going to be impossible to show statistical benefit based on death as an endpoint in a clinical trial. Just basic math.
I’ll look for hospitalizations by age tonight.
The End Is Nigh (Timothy Leary Edition):
https://nypost.com/2021/04/28/co-founder-of-2b-startup-says-he-was-fired-for-taking-lsd-at-work/
Thank God for the O’Biden vaccine!
Lib, I can’t imagine what you are going through with your D. I’m truly sorry. I do know how hard daily activities can be, a child in my (close) extended family has CF and underwent a double lung transplant. Life is never the same….
Question: Murphy comes out tomorrow and says everyone in NJ has been vaccinated. Every last person and he has the vax cards to prove it.
You going to revert to normal as before with D?
Your child, and by extension your family, got dealt something no one should ever have to experience.
I think your life – yet again – has changed permanently with this virus. Regardless if everyone is vaccinated tomorrow or not. You just can’t take a chance…..
My point is, I understand the greater good. But end of the day my kid getting antibodies naturally or through mRNA is going to have zero difference in how you need to handle your family’s life going forward. You can’t afford to have that 0.001% chance occur, and no State inoculation plan is going to get you to the level of zero tolerance you need.
Once again Leftwing,
It’s not just about the individual. It’s about the impact on society for all. It is not fair to sentence a formidable portion of the population into confinement if the vaccines are safe.
No matter how large the two study groups it will be almost impossible to find a statistical benefit to administering in this age cohort…For example, even if the trial cohort were an outrageous number like 74,000 participants total one would expect only 0.277 of a person dying. Not even one death.
It is literally going to be impossible to show statistical benefit based on death as an endpoint in a clinical trial. Just basic math.
The focus will be on safety, exclusively. They don’t need to show benefit by age cohort, the benefit is already established and accepted.
AAPL a big relief for me.
Considered FB but passed because of all the chatter over the Apple App Store conflict. Fcuking A, of course that’s up 20 points…..Gotta turn off CNBC. Pollutes my mind.
Cent and Build continue to do well. Though, chances are, you can double the indexes by putting 50% of your portfolio into Amazon and Apple with very little risk.
“The focus will be on safety, exclusively. They don’t need to show benefit by age cohort, the benefit is already established and accepted.”
I used to be balls deep in the FDA approval processes and it’s been a while but I believe that is not correct…..Safety and efficacy, cornerstones of approval. For every patient group.
I cannot possibly imagine the FDA clearing anything for use based solely on safety….that’s a Phase 1 study….at the very least there needs to be dosing studies….how can you dose properly without an endpoint? And labeling is everything…on the PFE vaccine there was a sixth dose in each vial and health systems tossed them even though vaccines were in serious shortage until FDA changed the labeling…..Providers regularly turned away patients for their second dose on Day 20 because the label said two shots 21 days apart.
This is not horseshoes. Especially when they know already the benefit in the target group is going to be difficult to demonstrate and the target group is sympathetic, ie. children.
JCer seems more up to speed on FDA affairs, any thoughts whether a child’s vaccine flies through with just a Phase 1?
I am having a seizure from reading this thread. I am joking but I was so pissed off today about the school forcing only few kids on the bus to stay home for a covid quarantine I decided to go out get some vitamin D and open my pool. Spent a few hours cleaning it and getting the pumps up and running. Heater will be on this weekend for sure. I am going to burn 100 dollar bills, so f*uc*k the environment!
Story now is a 3rd grader in the next neighborhood where the bus stops right before school tested positive on Friday with the rapid test, subsequent regular PCR test then sent to lab. Meanwhile parents send kid ANWAY to school Monday and Tuesday. PCR test comes back positive this morning and it’s a mad dash by the school nurse to do her own personal version of contact tracing and send ONLY a few kids who were on the bus home for the 14 day quarantine but not all.
I feel like the nurse is targeting my kids, as neither are in the 3rd grade and don’t even know that kid by first name don’t sit by that kid on then bus.
REPEAT AFTER ME SCHOOL YEAR IS OVER in 40 days, and f*u*ck you sh*itt*y parents who send their sick kid to school with a positive rapid covid test. I am lighting my fire pit tonight too and burning wood…cords of it if I can…I may even light off fireworks….I have got a bottle of homemade hooch I have been to scared to try because the guy that brewed it swears it has mind altering properties…That might make an appearance as it would be good for my new hobby, fire breathing…..
It’s “experimental” in that MRNA has not widely been used as a vaccine, the FDA only granted emergency use, and there’s not a complete picture regarding any long-term health risks.
That’s the reality.
We may agree that the observed short term side effects compared to Covid risk warrant its being available to the public.
Beyond that it should really be up to adults to decide for themselves while consulting with their doctor whether or not they should take it.
The tail risk exists whether you want to accept it or minimize it.
You don’t have to be one of the conspiratorial “they want to depopulate the planet types” to be concerned about that risk.
There have been plenty of health fiascos that have occurred in the past that started out with the best of intentions.
If one refuses to take the vaccine, is it OK for their health insurer not to cover costs if person gets COVID? When they show up to hospital, because they are not covered, can hospital request $100k retainer? Taking it another step further, if one has a BMI above 30, should the health insurance premium go up accordingly or should they pay the same amount as someone who has a healthy body weight. Years ago, Kaiser brought up the idea of indexing health insurance premiums based on weight and other factors, it did not go over well. Remote healthcare and on body sensing may bring the subject back for discussion. Great discussions from all participants today, Covid is complex. Any worries if things in India allow it to mutate into something that cannot be controlled, that would be my concern but I have virtually no scientific background.
Side note, lumber prices expected to go up even more. Are we about to see a whole new set of materials and building methods be implemented to deal with skyrocketing raw material prices? Concrete prices apparently stable. Poured walls and pex.
Juice, they are selecting your kids to make it look like they kept track of who was in contact with who. And yes, those parents are scum of the earth.
That’s happened half a dozen times here as well.
Look at the mechanics of COVID infection and the biological differences between adults and adolescents. One BIG problem with these studies of children is they tend to include children older than 10 years old. Whether through vaccination of having had the virus the children will have immunity. I’ll be real honest my 2 young children got a rash around the time I had COVID when they weren’t testing for it. I’m almost certain it was covid, besides a little lethargy the kids had zero symptoms besides a rash. I wouldn’t be surprised to find a lot of small children have already been infected and due to the mechanics of the virus they did not readily spread it and it went totally undetected.
Next the horrors of COVID are related to genetic mutations, besides the old and unfit COVID mainly kills those with a defect in their immune system. When a 40 year old get violently ill with COVID to the point it brings them near death, they likely were afflicted with this defect to their immune system. We can isolate this actually determine who is at risk.
Next think of the hypocrisy here, somehow using off label Choroquine or other drugs was decried as dangerous meanwhile it’s totally normal and safe to inject oneself with genetically modified mRNA that hasn’t been fully evaluated? My friend was running one of the trials on Pfizer vaccine, he told me Trump was nuts there was no chance in hell that we’d have a vaccine before the end of the year. If you don’t think short cuts weren’t taken I have a bridge to sell you. Personally I think the vaccines are safe I’ve taken them but I’m not fooling myself. Also to Left’s point I know how sick you can get from Covid so benefit vs. risk is present.
Say it left and Goat..”My Body, My choice. My Body, My choice”..hah
MRNA and PFE both running Ph2/3 studies. Only glanced at the docs, need to get some work done and stop screwing around here, ha. Looks at least PFE are measuring efficacy endpoint as not contracting COVID.
https://www.pfizer.com/news/press-release/press-release-detail/pfizer-biontech-announce-positive-topline-results-pivotal
https://www.yalemedicine.org/news/covid-19-vaccine-trial-in-children
”My Body, My choice. My Body, My choice”
+100%!
Now you get it, lol.
My apologies, I forgot to translate languages from Libertarian to Modern Liberal!
Interesting about Giuliani, there is divinely a political angle. The current US Attorney of S.D.N.Y. is a holdover who did not resign when Biden took office, she was temporary and apparently was Chucky Schumer’s favorite as he ran the vetting so she got the nod.
The current US attorney of the Southern District of NY Strauss served with Giuliani for a bit. She was apparently Assistant U.S. Attorney for seven years in the S.D.N.Y. from 1976 to 1983. She was an assistant along with Rudy back then for two years before Regan appointed him, she left when he was appointed in 1983.
I have 100% confidence in the safety of adenovirus vaccines. It’s a standard blueprint with “insert genetic material here” design. Some scientists had it made by day 2 after the sequence was published. There was a guy at Harvard who made one and all the staff took it because they reasoned it was better to take that than risk infection.
After the mRNA vaccine, I have full confidence it works. It worked for me and my SIL (who only had 1 shot at the time). I think the mRNA doses are too high which leads to more side effects. But, logistically, if you are going to get it out in two shots, it’s a compromise we have to make. I think, in the future, you are going to see smaller doses over more shots.
The establishment was on a mission to try to jail anyone associated with Trump the past 4 years. They are going to continue to do that as long as he threatens a run in 2024. In the past decade, we’ve witnessed the FBI, justice department, and the IRS all turned into political pawns.
BRT – A sitting grand jury and a subpoena to Giuliani’s assistant. Indicted ham sandwich they will have. Not to say he did anything wrong than perhaps going after the crack head son of the current president during an election.
Did he lobby for Ukraine? Seems sure as Rudy had his hands out everywhere, and really did not not try a hide that.
When does Hunter get his slap on the wrist from the IRS for his failings in his tax filings and payments for what a million + in income?
BRT – Yet we have many reports of the adenovirus vaccines causing deadly blood clots and an almost insatiable desire for bananas.
I’ll skip the genetically modified chimp virus and take the harmless mRNA any day of the week.
Good discussions today. Anyone want to guess what was missing?
Juice, mRNA has proven to be phenomenal result wise. I’m not going to argue that. And I do think that’s the future. There’s a reason adenovirus has only been 60 to 70% effective.
Lib I’ll guess. A supernatural figure that is a real estate guru and especially good a renting to deadbeats. If memory serves me he used to take balls on the chin while teaching tennis to the real housewives of Ridgewood. Will the next mayor or RT 23 make an appearance tonight? I would love to hear any story about his days of teaching tennis. You can bet there was one or two housewives that tipped him excessively.
Biden wants us to buy American. Oh the irony!!
It’s amazing what a downer that dipstick is. I don’t even look at his posts. Just skip right past them.
I really can’t disagree more. Without intending to sound hyperbolic, we are literally the greatest nation in recorded Earth history. As an aside, our companies have created the three most successful vaccines, and we have managed to inoculate the population at a clip that is the envy of the world (except Israel). Many in Asia, South America and Africa are desperate for our solutions. Do they want Sputnik or the Chinese versions? Maybe, but given the choice, NFW.
The game our enemies and competitors want us to play is self immolation…… don’t fall for the trap…..
Libturd says:
April 28, 2021 at 3:41 pm
It’s the attitudes on display here that explain why a country like Australia can have 1/4th the death rate of the United States.
There’s a reason we are the laughing stock of the developed world.
Australia and New Zealand were in very fortunate situations. They had covid people actively flying in just like everyone else. But it was summer there, so it couldn’t really get going. Nice to be an island nation in the summer. Now, don’t get me wrong, they get an A+, but we are literally a continent. There was no stopping this.
If you want to envy a response, Taiwan and Singapore had the best anticipation and plans in place. And they don’t need to lock down their populations. That being said, at the end of the day, Chi is right. Both Australia and New Zealand are relying on the work we did in our country to bail them out.
One of the benefits of having a for profit health care system is endless innovation. The rest of the world piggy backs on that.
It’s “experimental” in that MRNA has not widely been used as a vaccine, the FDA only granted emergency use, and there’s not a complete picture regarding any long-term health risks.
I believe the first MRNA vaccine trials, using similar technology, were conducted in humans starting in 2011. That means we have nearly 10 years of long-term safety data.
BRT – mRNA has a very interesting history, it was know as the holy grail for 50 years the idea of “programming” the body’s own cells churn out proteins to fight disease. Teams at NIH and Moderna actually designed their Covid vaccine without access to the actual virus, this was all done 48 hours after Chinese put the sequence online back in Jan 2020. The Moderna vaccine is the exact same atom for atom vaccine they designed back then no difference today all done in 2 days and approved 11 months later by the FDA.
If you did not know Moderna was seed funded by Bill Gates. The tech is amazing and will have cures for many diseases. Pfizer says it’s simpler to make and will be used for influenza, so no more chicken eggs. Moderna is working on HIV and BioNTech is working cancer treatments that can target specific tumors.
Nothing like this before has been done, sure we have folks working on more complex DNA engineering but this approach is much much more simpler and according to most results so far very very effective.
The trial enrolled 2,260 adolescents 12 to 15 years of age in the United States. In the trial, 18 cases of COVID-19 were observed in the placebo group (n=1,129) versus none in the vaccinated group (n=1,131). Vaccination with BNT162b2 elicited SARS-CoV-2–neutralizing antibody geometric mean titers (GMTs) of 1,239.5, demonstrating strong immunogenicity in a subset of adolescents one month after the second dose. This compares well (was non-inferior) to GMTs elicited by participants aged 16 to 25 years old (705.1 GMTs) in an earlier analysis. Further, BNT162b2 administration was well tolerated, with side effects generally consistent with those observed in participants 16 to 25 years of age.
Why would we expect to see a different impact in the next age cohort, 5-11?
New Zealand locked down earlier than really anyone on February 2nd. They were early early early and closed borders completely a month later. It was easier than anywhere else. They are not a hub or a layover for really anywhere other than perhaps some south pacific Islands.
I would attribute that to them being a member of the Five Eyes (FVEY) …….They had access to the intelligence, a little county of only 4.9 Million knew more than perhaps Germany, Italy or France. Same signal noise Trump was getting, no doubt we probably paid for and wrote the report for them.
Grim – perhaps rephrase that to “Why would we expect to see a different impact with OUR KIDS?”
What we do know is this stuff is all tested elsewhere before any US trials with US residents. This time around you can bet there were shortcuts but long after some low- and middle-income countries got a taste of the previous versions that did not work so well.
I wanted to close our borders in February too. But knew our country wouldn’t allow it. I saw some crazy videos from Wuhan Province. The one that stood out in my mind the most was one where a mother was not allowed back into the province to see her family. She drove her car through a border gate only to be apprehended. As I was running around like a turkey trying to make everyone aware of what was coming, I had multiple friends unfriend me due to what they called doomcasting. I said if we were lucky, one hundred thousand would die, though the back of the envelope math said 250K. Then again, I really didn’t think Trump was going to mainly ignore the pandemic and bring Mr. Pillow to the capital to help eradicate it. Oh man, when he pulled that flowchart out, I almost died laughing.
Some good ball busting today, I enjoyed it thoroughly.
Brazil saying the Russian vaccine is carrying viable adenovirus, possibly infecting people.
Cool.
Grim – Please bounce this thread into the bin and give us something new to kvetch about tomorrow!
Been and enjoyable day as I have the beginnings of a tan! Going to immolate my liver now.
BRT the only Adenovirus based vaccine with ~70% efficacy is the Janssen vaccine. That has nothing to do with the the fact that it is viral vector based and everything to do with being a single dose. The sputnik vaccine is over 90% effective as is the AZ/Oxford vaccine. Both are doing the same thing which is basically producing the spike protein to elicit an immune response. Whether a genetically engineered virus infects cells and instructs them to produce the spike or a lipid nanoparticle is injected and absorbed by dendritic cells that produce the spike protein, the end result is similar and is totally controlled by dosage. Your experience with the mRNA vaccine I believe is largely due to having been infected in the past, those who weren’t describe the side effects as if they worked out hard in the gym or had too much to drink. Everyone I’ve talked to who had covid and took any of the vaccines experienced strong symptoms very similar to the infection and lasting for days. Every vaccine we have except the Chinese vaccine(I think Sinovac) that does not actually work(efficacy is less than 50%) is based on sequencing of the spike and not the actual virus.
Grim yes they tested mRNA vaccines a decade ago, the tests failed, the vaccines were ineffective and there were severe side effects, side effects so severe many companies abandoned the technology. Conceptually it’s a simple idea but in reality the execution has been difficult, both BioNTech and Moderna licensed the same patents and this is the first time it has been used with any success. Earlier attempts ended with a strong immune response but not the desired immunity and the earliest attempts in animals had such severe side effects the animal subjects mostly died. Quite literally what you are seeing is the first 2 effective vaccines based on mRNA, there has never been another that has actually worked. The viral vector approach has actually delivered working vaccines in the past. Both Moderna and BioNTech were basically Hail Mary passes, a very aggressive attempt to get something out using very new and untested technology.
Now on to why adolescents are different. The immune systems of young children react differently than children after puberty. How can we be certain that the response from prepubescent immune doesn’t trigger cytokine storms or other undesirable responses causing lasting permanent damage? Until it is really tested and studied we won’t know, immune responses are unpredictable. The blood clotting issue with the AZ vaccine is a perfect example and they don’t understand why it happens but when you introduce outside genetic material you cannot be sure what all bodies will do. Do I want to use my child as a test bed before we have data? What is the risk of COVID vs the risk organ failure from an overactive immune response? Until we see some tests from that age cohort which are diverse and numerous I would view it as not worth the risk at this point.
My expectation with all of the vaccines is that any side effect will start to rear it’s head within a month of being dosed. The wing nuts who think it’s changing their DNA are just that wing nuts. In general your body wants to expel foreign genetic material, it’s RNA not DNA that is being injected and there is a very limited ability to process the nanolipid particles which are used and then discarded. Much like the virus itself, it is your immune system that creates the biggest problems.