Pay Up Sucker

From the Star Ledger:

Live in N.J.? You’ll pay more in taxes over a lifetime than anywhere else, study says

Live in New Jersey? It will cost you.

New Jerseyans will pay an average of $931,698 in taxes over their lifetimes, more than residents of any other state, according to a study by Self, a financial technology company. That’s almost half of a taxpayer’s lifetime earnings of $1.9 million.

Much of that is due to New Jersey’s property taxes, which at an average of more than $9,000 are the highest in the country. New Jersey ranked third in taxes on earnings, 18th in sales taxes and 43rd in levies on motor vehicles.

West Virginians shouldered the country’s smallest tax burden, $321,023. or one-quarter of their average income of $1.3 million.

The high taxes in New Jersey and elsewhere illustrate why those states were hardest hit by the Republican tax law’s $10,000 cap on deducting state and local taxes, known as SALT.

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281 Responses to Pay Up Sucker

  1. Chicago says:


  2. leftwing says:

    chi, thanks for that clip yesterday, lol. good laugh from that one.

  3. Juice Box says:

    Goona be a hot summer of shootings. Gov Murphy is supposed to be down in South Jersey today, where the mass shooting occured over the weekend occurred. What is her going to announce? That illegal guns are banned?

  4. leftwing says:

    “New Jerseyans will pay an average of $931,698 in taxes over their lifetimes…”

    Hey, back off….I do get my garbage taken from behind the house so I don’t have to wheel it to the curb. Likewise my leaves, curbside pickup saves me a trip to the compost every week.

    Well worth it if you ask me.

  5. tripstar385 says:

    Even with the highest net tax rate in the country NJ still has unfunded future liabilities that exceed 75% of the income earned by states residents.

    Even a 4 year old will understand the math here but we will continue to raise the tax on residents – the concept is that each tax increase buys a few extra years before the system implodes.

    My thesis is that we have passed the tipping point – Every dollar of increased taxes now has a negative net impact to funding our future liabilities. Meaning, new tax increase generates net out flow of tax paying residents. So the house of cards is now falling and will implode with exponentially increasing speed.

    If you are a public employee and are counting on receiving your full pension in 10 years, you should abandon that hope and start making a back-up plan immediately.

  6. Libturd says:


    Just wait until the stock market implodes. This unparalleled bull market is the only reason the system hasn’t collapsed. These pension fund managers are in riskier and riskier investments than in the past. If the market corrects by more than 20% and stay there for any length of time, the IOUs will be written.

  7. Fast Eddie says:

    If you are a public employee and are counting on receiving your full pension in 10 years, you should abandon that hope and start making a back-up plan immediately.

    I’ve said this in the past: House prices will reduce as the tax burden rises to fund liabilities. It will get to the point where houses will be sold ala Detroit style and the only requirement is to pay the taxes. An example would be a cape in Elmwood Park with a tax bill of $36,000 per year. This is about 15 years away.

  8. SmallGovConservative says:

    Has anyone else noticed how rapidly things have unraveled since Joe took over? It didn’t take the bad guys very long to figure out that the free world is led by an empty-headed putz. Imagine the outrage if Putin and his cronies had hijacked a passenger plane while T was prez. And if you’re a jew in NYC, London or any other western capital, be prepared to enjoy some spittle as part of your outdoor dining experience this summer. Thanks Joe.

  9. Juice Box says:

    Lib: re: “If the market corrects by more than 20% and stay there for any length of time, the IOUs will be written.”

    Ever hear of the Tokyo whale?

    Central banks around the globe have introduced huge asset-buying programs in this century that includes stocks. Bank of Japan has been actively been buying up ETFs since 2010.

    You can bet the FED will do the same, last year they bought billions in ETFs from May thru July just enough to convince Wall Street that they would be the buyer of last resort….

  10. Trippie says:

    So when does everyone start moving to West Virginia? Cheap taxes in them hills.

    “West Virginians shouldered the country’s smallest tax burden, $321,023. or one-quarter of their average income of $1.3 million.”

  11. Libturd says:

    You need to get your news from elsewhere. Honestly.

    Everywhere I look, people are partying like it’s 1999. Heck, every year we look to rent a beach house in the Outer Banks for late August, after the locals return to school. It’s an amazing deal. So much so, that you can get an oceanfront (not oceanside, but direct beach access from your deck) home that would cost $5,000 a week in LBI for around $2,000. We go with another family, so it works out to $200 per person for a week. We usually book the place in the late Winter early Spring. We tried to do it this year and there was not a single oceanfront place left for preseason, peak or postseason. So we started looking at beach communities all up and down the east coast from the OB up to NJ. Not a place was to be had. Like zero. We ended up booking a damn studio in Rehoboth on a beach block for $1,700. For that, I can normally get a whole home with a hot tub on a deck, outdoor shower, etc. This year, I got a single room.

    The roads are completely packed with cars again. My daily drive to D’s school is back to 45 minutes each way from 25 minutes.

    Even the other night, we tried to order in from our favorite Italian place on Saturday night. It was 7pm. They said they were too busy to take any more take-out orders.

    Last week, I needed to rent a lawn roller to grade my backyard for my intex pool. I had to wait 45 minutes at Home Depot as the line for tool rentals was seven people deep. I’ve never ever had to wait for more than one person.

    I also heard there was a chlorine tablet shortage since everyone is gearing up for a Summer of non-stop partying and no one wants a dirty pool.

    I suppose the world is falling apart due to Joe Biden. No available beach houses, can’t order take out. Chlorine shortages. Lines for tool rentals. Thanks a lot Joe.

    We should start the impeachment proceedings. Things were way better when Trump trapped us in our homes.

  12. BRT says:

    I’d hardly give credit to Joe for the party atmosphere that is rapidly evolving. It was about 8 weeks ago they were arguing about whether states should be locking down like Europe again and he was condemning those states that opened up. No one is listening to him. The public deserves the credit for finally gaining the courage to stop caring because the emergency is over.

  13. 3b says:

    BRT: I agree it has nothing to do with Biden, nor Trump has he been re-elected.

  14. JCer says:

    yes lib it’s crazy, I’m not sure where people are getting this money. 2020 was a sh*t year for income, yes on paper the assets went up in value but actual income is way down. I probably brought in 100k less so despite being locked up for a year we didn’t really save any additional money. Everything was down, corporate compensation, rents from investment properties, dividends, interest, etc almost every source of income took a hit yet people seem to be spending with reckless abandon?

  15. 3b says:

    Jcer: I don’t think people give a crap any more. Consumer borrowing is increasing as well. I think people feel wealthier perhaps with home values having increased so much and 401k balances for those who have them. Although I must say I am surprised at how few companies offer them and include a match, and how even those who do have access to them , I am surprised how few take advantage of them; at least according to the numbers. I don’t know why, but people are indeed partying like it’s 1999.

  16. Libturd says:

    My post on the world ending under Biden was meant to be firmly tongue in cheek.

    I don’t think anyone’s life is really any different. Republican wonks are clutching at straws.

    Sure, the pent up demand from four years of anti immigration policies caused a large influx. But how has this impacted any of you? I will say this. There are a lot less protesting going on and our cities are much less scary, albeit the subway in NYC where the homeless and clearly mentally ill among them have taken residence. But this was due to Covid, not presidential policy.

    One might argue, the increase in the Israel/Palestine conflict occurred because covid ended and people are not afraid to venture outside anymore. This all could have happened a year ago. And the truth is, I highly doubt Trump has or had anything to do with it.

    So what else has unraveled? Smalls? Or are you still living in the Qanon world?

  17. leftwing says:

    “I suppose the world is falling apart due to Joe Biden. No available beach houses, can’t order take out. Chlorine shortages. Lines for tool rentals.”

    I know you were tweaking someone for a political post…but this is not the sign of a healthy, functioning economy. The volatility is off the charts….of course this type of response is expected given the lockdown.

    The pendulum is undulating wildly…everywhere…..not just RE rentals, RE sales, stock markets, altcoins, etc.

    Everywhere. Not good. Times of high volatility rarely end well for average citizens.

  18. 3b says:

    Leftwing: Well said.

  19. 3b says:

    Murphy lifting indoor mask mandates on Friday.

  20. Libturd says:



    Not sure what the president has to do with all of this, though if the sh1t hits the fan during Biden’s watch, I wouldn’t blame much of it on Trump.

  21. leftwing says:

    Agree. you know a pet peeve of mine is when people define a President, any one of them, with what occurs between Jan 20 of one year and Jan 20 of four years later….

  22. BRT says:

    If you go to six flags, all the people from the inner cities have purchased flash pass for $100. They obviously have money to burn. The last time I observed this at six flags was about 2006/2007.

  23. The Great Pumpkin says:

    Prices are down, but outflows have been modest

     Yet a curious thing has happened — outflows have been relatively modest. 
    Jay Jacobs, head of research for GlobalX, which runs some of the most popular thematic ETFs, said that on average, outflows from his thematic tech funds have been “zero to 5%,” small considering all have seen double-digit price declines since February.

     This is true even for Wood’s flagship ARK Innovation Fund, off 34% from its historic high in February, but with only modest outflows of about $1 billion, which is about 5% of the fund.

    Why many investors are sticking with tech

    Many retail investors, who tend to have a short-term focus based on momentum, did indeed bail when prices started dropping. But Jacobs insists the core holders of his fund — and many other thematic tech funds — are not retail investors with weak hands.

    “The hands seem to be stronger than the market may suggest,” he told me. “Over 50% of the flows last year [in our funds] came from financial intermediaries, like advisors managing money for clients, 15% from institutions like pensions or endowments, and only one-third from retail. … So it’s not true that the only people buying these are retail investors with weak hands. People still believe in the long-term thesis and are not pulling money out.”

    Kim Arthur, president and CEO of Main Management, which specializes in ETF holdings, agrees that there are more “strong hands” in these funds than investors realize. 
    He runs the Thematic Innovation ETF (TMAT), a collection of thematic ETFs that mixes several themes, including clean energy, genomic research, fintech and online retail. 
    “Ninety-nine percent of the Thematic Innovation ETF is owned by professionals, we have virtually no retail,” he said. “We have seen no outflows.” 

    The difference between retail and professional 

    Kim explained that professionals own these stocks for entirely different reasons than the momentum-driven short-term retail investors: “The professionals who bought this bought it for the future and are willing to wait it out.”

    Nicholas Colas, who runs DataTrek, a quantitative driven stock research firm, agreed, and explains why that investor base is so patient.

     “This investor base is sophisticated,” he said.

  24. joyce says:


    “But unvaccinated people are still encouraged to social distance and wear masks, Murphy said.”

  25. Fast Eddie says:

    Follow the (political) science says the democrats!! Btw, I was upstate NY on Saturday to see a friend’s band and also walked into various stores without a mask. It’s nice to still believe I live in a free society. Yesterday, I went over the border into Rockland County to do more of the same. Most stores had signs that said optional if you’re indoctrinated… I mean vaccinated. Well, I entered with a naked face. At one point, the spouse wanted a Starbucks (I hate the f.ucking company and their f.ucking woke politics. In fact, I would urge anyone to consider the place a bathroom stop and nothing more). So, the majority of the SJWs in Starbucks still wore the mask because they follow the science (puke).

  26. JCer says:

    Yes totally not a “normal” economy asset values are way up, on paper I’m richer than I’ve ever been before. But in a real sense income is down, so the assets are producing less income and the buying power of said assets is reduced in real terms. Yes the president had zero impact on this, this is loose monetary policy and bipartisan stupidity combined with a pandemic and irrational human behavior.

    Also as for the shore it seems like people are going all in on the driving vacations so accordingly those destinations have insane demand because there isn’t an alternative really. Basically people have been cooped up and the vacation options are still really a road trip, most aren’t going to go to Europe and cruises to alaska, europe and New England are basically out. It is essentially like the 1950’s or 60’s you can got to a lake or the woods in NY or VT or the coast. Also since no one took their trips to the islands in the winter they are sitting on excess vacation they will use it to go to the shore.

  27. 3b says:

    Jcer: Love the shore but it’s overpriced even away from the pandemic demand etc. working on Bar Harbor for August. June and July are booked solid from what I can see.

  28. The Great Pumpkin says:

    He noted that many tech investors invest based on a J-curve, which means they are expecting losses for the first several years, followed by expectations of significant gains. 

     “So they are expecting losses in the first three or so years, but then there are profits in years 4-10. You have to buy in during year one, and put up with the volatility for the next few years,” Colas said.

  29. Bystander says:


    Same boat. Looking up in downeast Maine and there is nothing in July on VRBO. Perhaps they can try to sucker people to pay $500/night but it won’t be me. Lots of people trying to recoup last year’s losses. I think this is a ‘wait and see’ summer. There will be lots of cancellations so need to be flexible at last minute.

  30. 3b says:

    Bystander: I don’t mind paying up somewhat, but certainly not 500 bucks a night, ain’t happening. Agree on wait and see summer.

  31. Juice Box says:

    re: Jersey Shore.

    Yeah sure drop $2,800 a night to stay in Seaside Heights.

  32. 3b says:

    Juice: Someone might pay it !!

  33. No One says:

    Lots of pant up demand out there.

  34. The Great Pumpkin says:

    Left-wing website website Vox has been caught stealth editing an old article from March 2020 “debunking” the lab origin of COVID following numerous prominent officials now saying the lab origin is a distinct possibility.

  35. chicagofinance says:

    I have a client who owns a substantial shore lodging beachfront. Bookings are totally blown out. Having all kinds of problems hiring people; no one wants to work on the books.

  36. chicagofinance says:

    Another sighting of Murphy’s dipsh!t kid. Shows up with mutton chops looking like an clown, and starts walking around my friend’s backyard (daughter having a party). Has a full bottle of vodka, and my friend gets right in his grill and says you bring this to my house, and start walking around my pool. I have three dogs and we walk barefoot around here. WTF is wrong with you? Straighten up or I will kick you out of here…..

  37. Fabius Maximus says:

    Interesting day.

    “So Flynn lied about talking sanctions with Russia, Manafort lied about sharing polling data with a Russian agent, and Stone lied about coordinating Hillary email dumps with WikiLeaks—but it’s Mueller’s fault for not proving collusion, even though he proved all three were lying?”

  38. Chicago says:

    Flab: not a single comment on the Middle East all month. Come on. We all know you are fulminating. Give us your best shot.

  39. BRT says:

    Trump should have had Nikolai Volkoff start off his rallies

  40. Fast Eddie says:

    All I want to know is when the next phase of the erect1on is going to occur? And is an obedience mask required during the siege?

  41. The Great Pumpkin says:

    And you think govt workers are a waste of money…

    “Doing the Work at Work
    What are companies desperate for diversity consultants actually buying?”

  42. Juice Box says:

    Shusshhh don’t tell Pumps.

    WFH forever..if you are a government employee.

    “As the Biden administration contemplates how to return the massive federal workforce to the office, government officials are moving to make a pandemic experiment permanent by allowing more employees than ever to work from home — a sweeping cultural change that would have been unthinkable a year ago.

    The shift across the government, whose details are still being finalized, comes after the risk-averse federal bureaucracy had fallen behind private companies when it came to embracing telework — a posture driven by a perception that employees would slack off unless they were tethered to their office cubicles. That position hardened during the Trump administration, which dialed back work-from-home programs that had slowly expanded during the Obama era.

    But the coronavirus crisis — and a new president eager to rebuild the trust of federal workers who had been attacked by former president Donald Trump as “the swamp” — has convinced the country’s largest employer that in many departments, employees can serve the public just as well from home, officials said.

    Notice of the change is expected in June, when the administration is set to release long-awaited guidance to agencies about when and how many federal employees can return to the office — likely in hybrid workplaces that combine in-person and at-home options, according to officials and memos obtained by The Washington Post. The bulletin is expected to address remote work policies in the immediate and long term.”

  43. The Great Pumpkin says:

    My god, this is going to end badly. Talk about no show jobs…the end is nigh. Coronavirus might have serious lasting damage.

    Juice Box says:
    May 25, 2021 at 10:31 am
    Shusshhh don’t tell Pumps.

    WFH forever..if you are a government employee.

  44. The Great Pumpkin says:

    Coronavirus = no one wants to work. This country is becoming lazier by the day.

  45. JCer says:

    I want one of those remote fed govt jobs! The biggest requirement for a fed govt job is showing up, now that is necessary you can basically be retired get full benefits and probably a pension along with whatever pittance the govt is paying. Actually you probably could have multiple no show jobs, it’s like being politically connected in NJ!

  46. The Great Pumpkin says:

    All those people that don’t want to work…be careful. Be very careful. Just don’t cry you can’t find a job later..

    “Paranoid Android
    The robots are coming to labor-strapped North American warehouses. Growing numbers of self-driving machines are shuttling clothing and sports equipment down warehouse aisles, pulling bins of groceries, cosmetics and industrial parts from high stacks and handing off goods to human workers to help deliver orders faster. Some logistics operators are testing forklifts that can be operated from remote locations, allowing employers in tight labor markets to draw from a geographically broader pool of workers. The push toward automation comes as businesses say they can’t hire warehouse workers fast enough to meet surging online demand for everything from furniture to frozen food in pandemic-disrupted supply chains. The crunch is accelerating the adoption of robots and other technology in a sector that still largely relies on workers pulling carts, Jennifer Smith reports.”

  47. Bystander says:

    I am taking a good stream of contacts now that I learned in/outs of LinkedIn recruiting. Lesson #1 – update your profile everyday. Just add or remove a period but that refresh puts you to front of the line for some reason. I get one or two recruiters emailing me now. I was refereshing once a month previously. Lesson #2 – employment is royally f-ed up for future. You have a weird mixuture of lowball offers, still trying to think $65/hr in NYC is good. You have pure remote where trying to pay even less. You then have desperate companies who want you to return to office FT and probably getting smacked down. There has been no bend yet. Personally I will just ride my sh%tty IB out as at least getting same pay and WFH. Trying to pay lower wages to commute to NYC..good freaking luck.

  48. The Great Pumpkin says:

    Just imagine how dirty some people were during this pandemic. I can only imagine. Some people are filthy pigs.

    “So Fresh, So Clean
    Americans are cleaning up nicely. As vaccination rates climb and restrictions on human interaction ease, shopping carts are filling up with items designed to facilitate people’s re-entry into civilization. Instead of toilet paper and baking flour, it’s deodorant, teeth whitener and condoms that are in high demand. Sales of perfume, nail polish, swimsuits, sunscreen, tuxedos, luggage and alarm clocks are climbing fast, according to companies that make these products and large retailers. The surge in grooming products and travel gear is smaller than pandemic-driven rushes on hand sanitizer and disinfectant wipes. Last year some brands had sales double or triple as Americans stayed home and ramped up their cleaning routines. In some cases store shelves were emptied of those items for weeks. Fortunately, there’s an ample supply of deodorant and mouthwash, Sarah Nassauer and Sharon Terlep report.”

  49. JCer says:

    pumps I for one welcome the robots, real efficiency gains are very important. The issue we have seen in the past is not one of efficiency, actually what we see are high cost workers being replaced by less efficient workers.

    Here is the issue, e-commerce warehouse work is a terrible job, it doesn’t pay well. There is a shortage of workers because it doesn’t pay well enough and it is dehumanizing. It is far worse than traditional warehouse work in distribution centers where basically trucks are loaded and unloaded. It’s just like the companies complaining they could not find tech talent but want to hire experienced engineers for 100k a year, yeah there is a shortage at that price. I’m sure if they were paying 30 and hour they could fill the warehouse jobs.

  50. Fast Eddie says:

    “As the Biden administration contemplates how to return the massive federal workforce to the office, government officials are moving to make a pandemic experiment permanent by allowing more employees than ever to work from home — a sweeping cultural change that would have been unthinkable a year ago.

    Omg. Most government jobs require very little effort as it is… now they can WFH and collect a salary for doing nothing. The only thing Ayn Rand got wrong was realizing the magnitude of the grift, waste and non-production of this bloated and useless class.

    And by the way, have you ever seen a lazier president and vice president than the cadaver and his cackling side kick? The energy and drive of these two perfectly illustrates politicians at their very worst… or is it their very best?

  51. JCer says:

    bystander $65 and hour is Janitor money in NYC, it’s what a secretary is paid at an I-Bank. That just shows what the disastrous immigration policy has done, when these companies are trying to hire tech PM’s, developers, infrastructure engineers for what they pay personal assistants or college hires. The H1B and offshoring has crushed wages in the tech sector. Also it has given us faulty software and even resulted in a plane or 2 falling from the sky(I’m sure Boeing thinks it was worth it to save money on those engineers!It’s been great for the stock price).

  52. JCer says:

    Don’t worry eddie, you can work 16 hours a day to make sure you can pay the increased taxes for now entirely no show government jobs! Don’t worry once they pass their new infrastructure bill they will have a fully weaponized IRS and will audit you over the $250 you made on a bet. Welcome to Joe Biden’s America, there isn’t a bad policy the “Big Guy” doesn’t like. gotta keep the government gravy flowing in order to have something to grift.

  53. The Great Pumpkin says:

    I’m investing in it. I just hope these individuals don’t cry when robots take most of the low skilled jobs off the plate.

    JCer says:
    May 25, 2021 at 12:15 pm

  54. The Great Pumpkin says:

    Lmao…it’s comical how they thought this would make the company more efficient and profitable. But…but…it’s cheaper, therefore is optimum.

    “Also it has given us faulty software and even resulted in a plane or 2 falling from the sky(I’m sure Boeing thinks it was worth it to save money on those engineers!It’s been great for the stock price).”

  55. D-FENS says:

    Could be impending doom…or it could just be that people have been cooped up in their homes for a year and excited about finally having a summer without or with reduced masks and social distancing.

    Libturd says:
    May 24, 2021 at 10:23 am
    You need to get your news from elsewhere. Honestly.

    Everywhere I look, people are partying like it’s 1999. Heck, every year we look to rent a beach house in the Outer Banks for late August, after the locals return to school. It’s an amazing deal. So much so, that you can get an oceanfront (not oceanside, but direct beach access from your deck) home that would cost $5,000 a week in LBI for around $2,000. We go with another family, so it works out to $200 per person for a week. We usually book the place in the late Winter early Spring. We tried to do it this year and there was not a single oceanfront place left for preseason, peak or postseason. So we started looking at beach communities all up and down the east coast from the OB up to NJ.

  56. D-FENS says:

    On the RE front…every open house near me in outer NWNJ Exurbs are packed. Lots of NY plates parked up and down the street. Anecdotal evidence that RE looking like it will have a good summer.

  57. Ez says:

    Remember W VA apparently has the highest misery index, whatever that means .

  58. leftwing says:

    It’s crazy. Went out to my first dinner at a restaurant with a large group of friends the other night…..everyone is selling, everyone is buying…..nutty stories on waived inspections, breaking contracts, etc. Fcuking wild west out there……

  59. Ez says:

    Zestimate on my place went to $930k … up $33k in the last 3o days
    Yeah there’s no bubble…..riiiight.

  60. leftwing says:

    I posted that a week or so Lib….not just for the chart but for the first line of the caption…

    “The Federal Reserve balance sheet has expanded and contracted over time”.

    Guess I missed the downslope…..LOL

    Would be funny except it is going to leave a lot of people hanging out dry……

  61. No One says:

    Vox and hundreds of other online media sources are the equivalent of the People’s Daily World. Even online video game “journalism” is just crammed with embedded propaganda. They don’t tell you whether the game is fun but they write long essays on how a game portrays “problematic” stereotypes of male heroes, or complaints about how a game doesn’t offer an equal number of trans love interests in the plot, or that the head of a game studio had pressured workers to finish the game in time for Christmas shopping season. Being a SJW has no boundaries for subject matter. All aspects of society must be a part of the revolution.

  62. leftwing says:

    Had about a dozen guys….nine have second homes, shore or FL. Three of them have sold/under contract on NNJ house recently, all earlier than they otherwise would have absent this runup. Two have taken rental apartments as they extract themselves fully from up here….

    A fourth was likely convinced Fri night to do same based on experience of the others….

    It’s nuts out there….I don’t recall this kind of action even last decade…..

  63. leftwing says:

    “Vox and hundreds of other online media sources are the equivalent of the People’s Daily World…”

    I’m assuming they have a blue check mark though?

    Twitter needs to be burnt to the ground by activist politicians…

    Probably can count on just my fingers the number of times over my life I’ve advocated government intervention in private business….

  64. Juice Box says:

    Zilch for sale in my hood.

    However the flipper who purchased a knock down across from the cemetery on the 40 mph very busy road just listed it for $900K…They paid $310K in July and then blew up the house, it was about 1200 sq ft on an acre now it’s 2500 sq ft. Bonus for the flipper is they have divided the corner so potential for another one going up soon I would think.

    The house on the opposite corner built in 1933 is trying to cash in too. Owner paid $156k in 2009. House now listed for $565k with no updates, still looks and feels like 1933.

  65. Fabius Maximus says:

    That just shows what the disastrous immigration policy has done.

    Its not an Immigration issue, its an outsourcing issue. Always has been and always will be.

    If a H1B is on your firms books as an employee, they are on the same pay scale as you.
    If a H1B is working for WiPro, Cognizant, Tata at your firm that is an outsourcing issue.
    If you are fighting against off shore resources, again its an outsourcing issue.

  66. JCer says:

    lib very scary chart, this will not end well. Fed balance sheet is greater than the depths of the crisis

  67. Juice Box says:

    Fab- you would be wrong about this —-> “If a H1B is on your firms books as an employee, they are on the same pay scale as you”.

    Very very easy to game it with titles and roles, the department of labor’s “certified positions” allows for this on the LCA application. Most H-1B jobs are classified as entry level or just above, something like 65% of all the roles currently in the H-1B program. Those don’t come close to wages especially in high cost areas of the country.

  68. Juice Box says:

    One thing about the workers in H1-B program. They are to other discrimination besides wages sometimes caste system once they get here too. All kinds of lawsuits over it now.

    Funny about the program and how it is full of discrimination against American workers is simply the amount of denials in the H-1B application process. Again companies have to certify there is a bonaifed job and role they cannot fill locally and then submit the applications and those then get denied about 20% of all applications. The worst firms have sometimes 50% of their applications denied. A company like Amazon about 7%.

    Reality is the jobs never existed and they don’t have thousands of role to fill. They want entry level cheap labor and quiet workers who won’t push for raises or promotions, because they are content on just being here as opposed to over there.

    We do need labor, skilled labor but it should not be at the expense of every other worker here.

  69. BRT says:

    lol, John Cena apparently apologizing in Chinese for calling Taiwan a country? This is

  70. JCer says:

    Fab without H1B there is no outsourcing, H1B on the firms books does not make the same salary under most scenarios, simple economics dictate a visa holder is worth less, they are subject to USCIS whims, you need to sponsor the visa and they are captive hires(if fired they will be deported unless they can find someone else to sponsor them). They work for a discount and have little leverage to tell their employer no, or demand a raise/bonus.

    The H1B makes the modern outsourcing company possible without it there is no legion of willing to work for less. Wipro/Cognizant/etc can supply on shore resources for less than what an employee cost that is what makes the model work. Offshoring is one thing but again without the outsourcing companies most companies simply do not have the scale to effectively run offshore centers especially for technology.

  71. BRT says:

    Remember in 2008, Krugman, Stiglitz and Roubini talked about how there is no way out of the liquidity trap? I guess the fed found a way.

  72. JCer says:

    I saw one of my bosses literally have an H1B developer deported, I’ve seen it first hand any kind of push back from the employee and an example is made of that person. The outsourcing companies are even more ruthless in the way they treat their people. The H1B folks typically are trying to stay long enough to qualify for citizenship. I have friends who came on H1B visa, they know it’s a scam, and refer to the people hiring/sponsoring the visa as “Pimps”. A lot of employers do not want H1B, unless you really cannot find the skill or are intending to take advantage of the situation the H1B process if a pain for most employers.

  73. Ez says:

    In NJ the best job is to be a police officer.
    Average salaries exceeded $95K in 2020, according to pension data. In two communities, the average officer took in more than $150K.

  74. Bystander says:


    H1B is actually more dangerous to your wages in this area. I sent this Pew study many times but something like 60% of all H1b end up between DC, Philly, NJ, NYC, CT, Boston. The concentration of 350k people competing at any time has overwhelmed the overall local market. Avg salary is 80k for NYC area H1b. It is lies. They have these people doing all kinds of work under guise of IT or engineering. I see it all the time. They work 13 hours a day doing multiple business tasks – uploads of data, recons, support. That allows businesses to hire less ops folks. It is about slack…crushing, crushing labor slack.


    One of my direct reports is H1B in CT. Really oustanding resource. We could not do any system change work without his detail/ownership. He is constantly freaking out about approval timelines and lack of progress for GC. It takes 18 months minimum to get approval once process starts. I have to hit my manager to push stuff along or this guy will be throw out before approval happens. He has 16 months left on final year of H1B. His friend had to leave country while GC process was happening so he did not go over visa stay limits while process was going on. It is absolute sh&t show with this stuff.

  75. The Great Pumpkin says:

    True story.

    You also left out the part where their pension isn’t being robbed blind. Above the law baby!

    Ez says:
    May 25, 2021 at 3:17 pm
    In NJ the best job is to be a police officer.
    Average salaries exceeded $95K in 2020, according to pension data. In two communities, the average officer took in more than $150K.

  76. Fast Eddie says:

    In NJ the best job is to be a police officer.

    I’d say teachers would have the best job… summers off, basically 8 to 4 job, tenure deluxe, throw in a pandemic and you get to stay home a year:

    Northern Valley Regional, Bergen $113,869
    Passaic County Vocational, Passaic $99,152
    Carlstadt-East Rutherford, Bergen $97,400
    Margate City, Atlantic $96,600
    Edison Twp, Middlesex $96,455
    Brigantine City, Atlantic $95,669
    East Rutherford Boro, Bergen $95,635
    Pascack Valley Regional, Bergen $95,500
    Wallkill Valley Regional, Sussex $94,889
    Millburn Twp, Essex $94,375
    River Vale Twp, Bergen $93,175
    High Point Regional, Sussex $93,031
    Ocean City, Cape May $91,865
    Kittatinny Regional, Sussex $91,445
    Freehold Regional, Monmouth $91,415
    Ventnor City, Atlantic $90,950
    Ridgewood Village, Bergen $90,735
    Hackensack City, Bergen $90,606
    Ramsey Boro, Bergen $90,355
    West Orange Town, Essex $90,172
    Mainland Regional, Atlantic $89,561
    Morris Hills Regional, Morris $89,415
    Lower Cape May Regional, Cape May $89,392
    Pemberton Twp, Burlington $89,143
    Atlantic City, Atlantic $88,575
    Mountain Lakes Boro, Morris $88,130
    Gloucester Twp, Camden $88,119
    Bergen County Vocational, Bergen $87,887
    Lenape Regional, Burlington $87,536
    Jersey City, Hudson $87,130
    East Orange, Essex $86,944
    Eastern Camden County Reg, Camden $86,936
    Tenafly Boro, Bergen $86,754
    Atlantic Co Special Serv, Atlantic $86,426
    Princeton Public Schools, Mercer $86,156
    South Brunswick Twp, Middlesex $86,120
    Closter Boro, Bergen $85,935
    Hopewell Valley Regional, Mercer $85,743
    Old Tappan Boro, Bergen $85,708
    Vernon Twp, Sussex $85,695
    Northern Highlands Reg, Bergen $85,600
    Cresskill Boro, Bergen $84,240
    River Dell Regional, Bergen $84,151
    Elizabeth City, Union $83,929
    Pompton Lakes Boro, Passaic $83,855
    Kinnelon Boro, Morris $83,760
    Hopatcong, Sussex $83,535
    Tewksbury Twp, Hunterdon $83,468
    Southern Regional, Ocean $83,400
    Livingston Twp, Essex $83,355

  77. joyce says:

    The job protections, union/legal, for a police officer dwarf tenure and they can retire after 20 years (reduced pension no healthcare) or 25 years with pension and HC for life.

  78. JCer says:

    Yes Bystander what you see is very consistent, if he gets the green card he’ll probably also get a new job. Many of these folks are good but way underpaid and overworked, they are captive. 80k in NYC is a secretary not an engineer, if your number is correct the situation is worse than I realized even. Most of my folks coming from India want at least 100k, that’s the “magic” number. They also realize they will not get any appreciable raise on top of that. Only 13 hours a day? the big push is to get them to do all kinds of activities on Saturday and Sunday.

  79. Fast Eddie says:


    While perhaps true, I figure at the least, a teacher may not get killed at 3:oo AM in an alley. Anyway, for those who wish to peruse:

  80. 3b says:

    Fast I wonder how many were sitting in their underwear behind a computer screen doing the nasty?

  81. 3b says:

    I read somewhat NJ has more police than any other state per capita.

  82. 3b says:

    Fast: Most towns in Bergen Co , cops have it easy. Englewood and Hackensack the exception.

  83. Libturd says:

    Hey Left,

    Since I mentioned SSTK, Nasdaq has been down slightly and SSTK is up about 5%.

    Who said value investing is dead?

  84. Fast Eddie says:


    Agree. I can’t see a cop in Rockleigh or Old Tappan wondering too much if (S)he will see their kids in the morning. I think that gun in their holster may need some WD-40 to remove it.

  85. BRT says:

    I read somewhat NJ has more police than any other state per capita.

    You’ll really notice this if you drive up to Maine. You’ll pass about 15 cops on your way out of NJ. Then, as you go through NY, CT, RI, MA, NH, and into ME, you might see 1.

    Same thing happened when I drove back from Virginia.

  86. Bystander says:

    Here you go JCer. Their markets are not consolidated so Trenton would not be part of NYC region. I would also consider Easton PA as NYC. Add those together and looks like 424K in the corridor, primarily in NYC-NJ. For me, 1200 in Milford CT stood out. That is a pretty small town 15m away from me. They have one dominant employer – Subway Franchise HQ. You can’t hide that one. Avg pay is 80k in NYC as I said. Looks like CT H1b living large at 100k.

  87. Bystander says:

    Grim, mod please.

  88. Bystander says:


    Absolutely. I have never seen a cop on the Merritt..seriously never, unless accident. There is no shoulder so can’t pull them over. It is the freaking Autobahn. I get passed doing 80 like I was not moving. Plenty of folks doing 100Mph plus. It is common. I hardly even notice anymore.

  89. joyce says:

    The number of cops feloniously killed is very very small, each a tragedy, of course. Last year of FBI stats says it was 48, zero in NJ.

    Fast Eddie says:
    May 25, 2021 at 4:01 pm

    While perhaps true, I figure at the least, a teacher may not get killed at 3:oo AM in an alley.

  90. 3b says:

    BRT: Agreed, also in PA.

  91. No One says:

    I thought the big risk for cops and sheriffs in NJ is getting caught propositioning young ladies.

  92. No One says:

    Meanwhile over the past few months I’ve found the government employees of Sarasota, FL very pleasant, efficient, and helpful. Despite being busy taking care of lots of people getting their Florida drivers’ license, license plates, and registering their new domicile in Florida.

  93. Fabius Maximus says:

    I had one of my team dumped out of the country in two weeks as the US lawyers messed up the paperwork. H1Bs in firms are usually inter company transfers, it is rare for a company to hire a H1B away from another firm and most dont want the hassle.

    On the other side, most firms don’t care who the outsourcer hires. While a Tata might have a lot of H1B in the states, KPMG, Accenture, etc etc etc. will have Americans here facing off against the client and all the work done in another country. I have worked with a firm where one half of the team was in Colorado and the other half in Krakow. No H1Bs in the picture, but all the work outsourced.

  94. No One says:

    BRT I hear from my wife that people in China on WeChat are going to town hating on this guy for calling Taiwan Taiwan. Hollywood is so whipped by China, it’s disgusting. For all their claims of caring about social justice and ideals, they grovel before a fascist country for money.

  95. Bystander says:

    hah, what a laugh..

    ‘I don’t do what Wall Street wants,’ Fed’s Bostic says, touting job creation

  96. Bystander says:


    Could not post link but here are number. Actually 424,000 H1B approvals from 2010-2016 in DC-NYC-Boston corridor. Bulk in NJ obviously. Avg pay is 80K. Insane.

    Metropolitan area H-1B visa approvals H-1B visa approvals per 100 workers Average salary for H-1B visa approvals
    New York-Newark-Jersey City, NY-NJ-PA 247,900 2.501 $80,000
    Washington-Arlington-Alexandria, DC-VA-MD-WV 64,800 2 $73,900
    Boston-Cambridge-Newton, MA-NH 38,300 1.482 $88,100
    Philadelphia-Camden-Wilmington, PA-NJ-DE-MD 34,300 1.125 $84,800
    Trenton, NJ 9,500 4.857 $83,300
    Baltimore-Columbia-Towson, MD 7,400 0.505 $77,100
    Bridgeport-Stamford-Norwalk, CT 6,300 1.35 $100,200
    Hartford-West Hartford-East Hartford, CT 4,900 0.785 $81,500
    Worcester, MA-CT 4,800 1.403 $79,100
    Providence-Warwick, RI-MA 3,400 0.492 $90,100
    Allentown-Bethlehem-Easton, PA-NJ 1,300 0.312 $75,400
    New Haven-Milford, CT 1,200 0.362 $79,800

  97. Bystander says:


    Here is link. Actually 424,000 H1B approvals from 2010-2016 in DC-NYC-Boston corridor. Bulk in NJ obviously. Avg pay is 80K. Insane.

  98. 3b says:

    No One: Not a peep out of anyone over China’s treatment of the ethnic Uighur minority. People in concentrated camps, their culture being destroyed etc Not a word, if it was the Russians it would be a whole different story.

  99. BRT says:

    So the media is silent on the fact that someone was shot today at George Floyd’s memorial where he died. Not a big story I guess?

  100. BRT says:

    BRT I hear from my wife that people in China on WeChat are going to town hating on this guy for calling Taiwan Taiwan. Hollywood is so whipped by China, it’s disgusting. For all their claims of caring about social justice and ideals, they grovel before a fascist country for money.

    That’s why Ricky Gervaise and his monologue was epic calling them out on their BS. It was pathetic to watch the entire NBA do the same thing when the Houston Rockets GM tweeted about Hong Kong. What a lot of people don’t realize is that Hollywood is, at the behest of the CCP, putting China into our movies for positive PR. They did it in the Martian where China saves us with their rocket. They did it in that Independence Day sequel. There’s a scene inserted into Iron Man in the foreign versions where he goes to China for a special surgery.

    That’s why I respect Trey Parker and Matt Stone. They told Xi to go f himself.

    Like the NBA, we welcome the Chinese censors into our homes and into our hearts. We too love money more than freedom and democracy. Xi doesn’t look just like Winnie the Pooh at all! Tune into our 300th episode this Wednesday at 10! Long live the Great Communist Party of China! May this autumn’s sorghum harvest be bountiful! We good now China?

  101. The Great Pumpkin says:

    House across the street sold. 1.35 million.

  102. 3b says:

    BRT; Good one!!

  103. 3b says:

    Every spy movie, bad guy movie now are Russians. Never China.

  104. 3b says:

    Big mistake demonizing Russia , and ignoring China.

  105. Bystander says:

    I saw the 1.3m recent sale, Blumpy. Looks like Asian neighbors. New owner:

    Pong, Ping

  106. The Great Pumpkin says:

    Asians moving into north jersey hard….honestly, they are probably going to take over north jersey. Jewish orthodox community also growing by the day.

  107. The Great Pumpkin says:

    It’s funny…the ping pong palace would have increased my value…Asians love it. Glad the woods made it to see another day. So much wildlife is supported by it. Saw a bear last week running through it. Second time in two years.

  108. The Great Pumpkin says:

    I haven’t seen turkey in about 2 years. Wonder what’s up with that.

    Saw a pack of maybe 30 turkey back in 2014. Like 20 babies. It was so cute. That pack was thinned out by the next time I saw them.

  109. The Great Pumpkin says:

    I remember helping a huge mother snapping turtle cross the street. My daughter learned a lot that day. Later on that summer, we found baby snappers (shell about the size of a quarter) in my yard. That species was prob around since the dinosaurs. Props to any species that has made it that long.

  110. LurksMcGee says:

    @6:23; seems they tried to get a lot more in 2012 AND 2017, idk how indicative that particular case is.

  111. Ez says:

    Truth be told WFH has been the best year of my professional life.
    Bar none. Zero distractions. Very little interaction with cretins.

  112. The Great Pumpkin says:


    I feel bad for anyone getting priced out of this market. I tried to tell people, but they didn’t listen. Worst part, they think this is a bubble, and prices will be much lower ina year or two. Sad…

  113. The Great Pumpkin says:


    It has been amazing. Maybe the worker finally gets a bone thrown their direction. The logical part of my brain says no way. Dealing with human nature here. These bosses will get the upper hand. All they have to do is offer more money for “in person” and the market will go to work.

  114. leftwing says:

    “Not a peep out of anyone over China’s treatment of the ethnic Uighur minority. People in concentrated camps, their culture being destroyed…”

    “So the media is silent on the fact that someone was shot today at George Floyd’s memorial where he died…”

    Your reality is what the blue check marks determine it to be.

    Comply, or be cancelled.

  115. leftwing says:

    Lib, I’m dying here…got nothing for you….

    I’ve lightened some positions in my investment account, with no good alternatives apparent I’ve moved funds into the trading account…playing earnings, the retailers now…to the downside were easy, JWN ought to pay tomorrow….Time consuming for the return, feel like and am getting compensated like a cheap (well, moderately hot) whore….

    I don’t need a bear, just give me a crack in something that I feel good about jumping into longer term right now with new money….

  116. The Great Pumpkin says:

    Think about it. Do you think the creative manpower needed to make the American economy go can be found in the homes of individual workers on zoom…I just don’t buy it. The creative need to feed off each other in person. I don’t know if it’s the body chemistry, but something happens when you bring brilliant minds together in person to think. They just feed off each other like a wild pack of hyenas’ feasting on a meal.

  117. The Great Pumpkin says:

    Can we agree that housing is the biggest supply/demand bottleneck in the economy? Next, can we agree it will take this decade to unwind?
    Next, should we sell end of this decade or mid decade (to reduce risk while demand is still going hard)?

  118. prtraders2000 says:

    From the South Jersey shooting. 14 shot, 2 dead. My argument for less guns, others for more.


    “Gouldtown is where people move to,” said the young man who survived the shooting. He lives in Bridgeton, and said many city residents frequently cross the border to visit the town, as many party-goers did last night.

    The man said the shooting was likely sparked by a beef among people from Bridgeton.

    He said young people from the city have long picked up guns over petty squabbles, like stepping on someone’s sneakers or talking to someone’s girlfriend.

    “It’s pointless s**t,” said the man, “but when you live so close to a motherf***er and all you got going for you is your respect, you know, you want to see who got the juice.”

  119. Libturd says:

    I know it seems silly to post a 5% gain in two weeks. But this is the way.

    Honestly, besides patience (better known as discipline), realizing the importance of keeping score too avoid confirmation bias is probably the second most important lesson I’ve learned in investing.

    I forgot who told this to me, but the difference between being the league MVP in baseball and being sent down to AAA is having one more hit every ten at bats. That’s the difference between hitting .250 and .350!

    For my first five or so years of investing, I would always look for homeruns, 4 baggers and secret systems and patterns. I never kept careful track of my performance as eventually I would find the equity that would quadruple. Unfortunately, they wouldn’t come frequently enough to overcome the number of times I was left holding the bag. It wasn’t until I joined an Investment Club, when I lived in Los Angeles, that I was taught the importance of benchmarking. Likewise, it was equally as important to track the performance of the equities you have sold to determine if your decision to sell was sound. Buying stocks at the right time is many times easier than selling them at the right time. I think gambling has taught me a ton about discipline as well. The difference between winning and losing in a session has more to do with luck than skill. But the difference between a winning year and a losing year gambling has nothing to do with luck and everything to do with skill. How so? Well, you can play a game where you have the advantage and still lose over a short period of time. But over a longer period of time, if the odds are in your favor, you will come out ahead. The key being, only gambling where and when the odds are in your favor. Trust me, the margins are tiny and will completely be erased through lack of discipline. No drinking, no playing when you are tired and making sure you have proper play down pat. For example, I often play a game which has a 99.6% return. The cas1no gives me back 1/3rd of my losses in comp/cash back/gift cards and other items that I can convert back into cash. I will not play if I can’t turn the game into a 100.2% return. Well the cas1no often offers me a 5X multiplier on their comp rate. Well I am already getting .125% back, but multiplied by 5, that’s .625%. 99.6% +.625% = 100.225%. For the record, I occasionally am offered 10, 15, 20 and 25X multipliers. The problem though, is that if you only play when you have multipliers, they will cut you off and you will make 0% back. So you must play enough times without the multiplier to balance out play with the multipliers. This is just one example of how advantage play works. The reason I share this is because tiny margins are all you need to succeed. In investing, a 5% gain over 12 trading days is a monster return. I am only looking to make slightly more than 1% a month. Yet 95% of retail investors snicker at that 5% gain I posted. Over that time period, the Nasdaq lost .7%.

    In my 401K which is my largest non-real estate investment, I am up 7.68% on the year. Annualized, that’s well over 15%. This meets my expectations, but I am well behind the total stock market index, the DJIA as well as the S&P500. Last year I decimated nearly all of the indexes. I am behind this year because I am too heavily weighted in large cap growth, which is too heavily weighted in those overvalued FAANG stocks which appear close to returning to fair value. I share this because it shows the importance of keeping score. There is tremendous value in understanding why you are winning or losing. If you are not benchmarking, then you have no clue how you are really doing. Keeping score is the ONLY WAY to know how you are doing. Sadly, very, very few do it. They just look at their return at the end of the year and leave it in the hands of their money managers. Meanwhile, these so-called experts are losing to their benchmarks close to 80% of the time.

    I hope some of you learned something from all of this. Free tuition. Am I right Leftwing?

  120. The Great Pumpkin says:

    Lib, if only you would listen to me with ark funds over next 5 year or more.

  121. Libturd says:


    VEEV reports after the market close on Thursday. They are still too richly valued for my blood, but if they blow out earnings, their P/E will end up making them fairly priced. Their low P/E has averaged 67.8 for the past five years and has even got into the 50s last year and the year before. I’d be a buyer on Friday morning if the EPS is anywhere above .85

    For the rest of you, buy ARKK.

  122. Ez says:

    This was a place I liked and never got the chance to live (Lake Valhalla)

    This is my kind of place miss those basements

  123. Phoenix says:

    “For the rest of you, buy ARKK.”

    Gee thanks.

  124. leftwing says:

    Lib, really good writeup. I’ll look at VEEV, TY.

    Funny, I’ve lived many of your points the hard way decades ago, yeah, tuition lol.

    Couple things I do regarding investing as well…on your discipline/confirmation bias point…Not surprisingly I’m a data freak…I have a spreadsheet of every trade measuring key data points, including post-exit performance…I have a spreadsheet on recommendations (including my own and others) and outcomes for positions I didn’t enter so I know what I should prioritize and how/why I missed disasters or opportunities. I have screenshots of key elements of the investment at the time it was done with a quick writeup of what I was thinking at the time I did it….These items have been invaluable in fine tuning my returns.

    Humans are creatures of habit. Especially in times of decisions or stress we run to our personal spaces. In investing you need to know your safe spaces, and whether they are conducive to good returns. Break the habits that aren’t, emphasize the ones that are.

    As a small personal example my investing analyses over time showed me that, risk adjusted, I was leaving significant returns on the table by exiting winners too early. I still fight that urge today but I have the data and backup to let my winners run to a better price. It should not have come as a surprise to me – I’m a risk adverse individual generally – so when I went to make a meaningful financial decision decision where did I think my internal biases were going to take me….

    Two other points….know what you are buying, it is very often not what is exactly in the company or fund….also, plan your trade and trade your plan.

    On the last points recent example I was on here asking about AT&T on the Warner announcement a few days ago….I bought T for undervalued assets in Warner, the value recognition was to come from their release…I disliked the DISC deal, I could find 16 ways to argue and analyze that I should continue to hold T…bottom line, I had a plan, it was triggered no matter how badly, so get out…that was in the 32s, stock is in the 29s…..knowledge, preparation, and discipline takes you from .250 to .350….

    Funny, on the options trading….given all the permutations and a hard expiry the math and analyses behind the trade is phenomenal….it’s why I referenced your poker playing a while back….I can tell you which trade is going to produce which ranges of returns for certain outcomes to the decimal point, risk adjusted. I mention options to people and they think some free-wheeling pants on fire Trading Places pit scene with wild swings…it is 100% the opposite…exponential Moneyball. Taking something with wide variances that appear random and packaging it in a way where I am going to regularly skew the results to get that extra hit…on occasion (March, 2020) there are runners are on base in the seventh game bottom of the ninth with the score tied…..

    Anyway, too long a post….TY on the stock, I’ll look…FWIW I think we go higher I just have a nagging voice that says how deep do I want to be in right now…like yesterday when I mentioned I didn’t recall this level of mania around very successful people on real estate, I can’t remember the last time I’ve screened for nearly everything out there for a stock opportunity and keep coming up empty on places for new money….

    GL brother.

  125. A Home Buyer says:

    Is anyone else a bit surprised to see so many people softening / walking back the hardline stance that the Corona Virus “was not” manufactured (and then accidentally released) by the Level 4 Lab right next to the first known epicenter that coincidentally specialized in Corona Virus research… in bats?

    Its gone from “center of coronavirus conspiracies” to “prominent scientists are calling for a deeper probe and clearer answers from Beijing”.

    Question: If the Chinese Government actually created the thing, is it still wrong to call it the Chinese Virus?

  126. BRT says:

    The whole dismissal of it as a conspiracy theory was the media’s doing. Complete lack of logic and due diligence based in their need for all things Trump ever said need to be 100% wrong.

    The fact is, the NIH did fund either directly or indirectly, gain of function research. Fauci tried to lie or be clever with his words when grilled by Rand Paul on this issue. The problem is, these things are published in journals and there is a paper trail of who funded it and when. I think they figured, well, we can just say it’s been “debunked” and everyone will accept it and move on. Didn’t happen.

    The facts haven’t suddenly changed.
    1. There is no record of precursors to this virus found in any species to date
    2. This virus, which supposedly comes from bats, doesn’t seem to infect bats in any meaningful way
    3. Several virologists did express concerns about the certain genetic characteristics found in the viral machinery that typically, are evolutionarily stable. This appears to be a deviation from that
    4. The Wuhan viral institute actually had 4 or 5 accidents involving the original SARS virus in subsequent years which resulted in worker infection. So they have a history of screwing up.
    5. This virus outbreak happened to happen in the same city as the Wuhan Viral Institute
    6. There is credible evidence that the workers there were infected.
    7. Satellite images show the hospital’s parking lot in Wuhan being exceedingly full
    even in months prior to the official date of the outbreak.
    8. China basically spread disinformation on the virus and tried to cover up a lot of things with respect to it. Still to this day, there is no transparency.

    Are we really supposed to believe in that many coincidences? The intentions of the gain of function research may have been good and the release of the virus was likely accidental. But seriously, do you think having a country that pollutes the earth, dumps plastic into the ocean, destroys their own environment, really should be trusted with due diligence in handling potentially deadly viruses?

  127. leftwing says:

    “Gee thanks.”

    She’s really pretty….for you ;)

  128. Bystander says:

    Why not thank the Chinese for making everyone rich, right? All cash buyers driving homes to new highs, cheapest rates ever, dogecoin millionaires, and 401k balances through roof. What am I missing?

  129. 3b says:

    BRT: I said from the beginning the Chinese government could not be trusted. CNN, The NY Times and all the rest, vilified anyone that said the virus could have been created in the Wuhan lab, and it got out. Now it’s a credible theory, and it appears that is in fact what may have happened.

  130. leftwing says:

    BRT, points taken….not going to engage because I agree but also I don’t personally want the smell of political napalm all this morning permeating my office by getting sucked into this topic today….

    As I’ve mentioned before the best spokesperson on this virus is Gottlieb and he is very accessible…CNBC interview a few days ago on this topic his main point on origin was regarding an intermediate host…I’m paraphrasing – probably poorly since this isn’t really a hot button topic for me so I had half an ear on it – but for this virus to go from bat to human in the manner it did there needed to be another animal species in between. He says that has not been found and the more importantly was emphatic stating “and we’ve looked hard”.

    Basically he concluded that while those facts were not a smoking gun they were a “double negative” leading only to an affirmative conclusion…

    He also had a good quote regarding genetic samples of the virus from three lab workers originally infected when asked if that would establish origin….”of course, but those samples and records ceased to exist long ago”.

  131. Phoenix says:

    “Why not thank the Chinese for making everyone rich, right? All cash buyers driving homes to new highs, cheapest rates ever, dogecoin millionaires, and 401k balances through roof. What am I missing?”

    What are you missing? How many are so happy that since grandma died they have finally inherited all that money they were waiting would come for so long.

    But then those pesky hospital bills came in..

  132. Phoenix says:

    BRT: I said from the beginning the Chinese government could not be trusted.

    Well, I know from personal experience that the American government can’t be trusted, so why should the Chinese one be any different?

  133. Phoenix says:

    This channel brings in 2 million dollars/year destroying things.

    I went into the wrong industry.

    The channel has over 2 million subscribers as of 2021 and has accumulated over 600 million views so far. It is able to get an average of 1.2 million views per day from different sources. This should generate an estimated revenue of $6,000 per day ($2.2 million a year) from the ads that appear on the videos

  134. 3b says:

    Phoenix: They won’t pay the bills.

  135. leftwing says:

    So youtube advertisers pay half a penny per view for videos?

    Presume that varies by content, ie. consumer goods advertisers pay more per view than less competitive sectors?

  136. Phoenix says:

    I should start a show on why it’s wrong to stick your d*** in crazy.

  137. BRT says:

    I taught a kid who was earning 2 million a year by freshman year of college doing youtube videos on Minecraft. He dropped out because he didn’t have the time for school. You should see Mr Beast. The dumbest channel on the planet but every little kid thinks it’s great. He pulls in 30 million a year.

  138. Libturd says:


    How is that a win? First, it has not been proven that it escaped from a lab. Only a moron of a person would immediately promote it as a truth before it is proven. It’s twice as bad when that person is a former POTUS. Of course, the lack of facts have never stopped Trump from lying (voter fraud among the thousands of other lies).
    Nonetheless, if it is proven to be the case, so what? How does this change anything? No one definitely said this came from a wet market. As to that Zero Hedge article. What persuasive tabloid crap are you reading? Yes, occasionally they are right. Mostly their bullsh1t tends to play out as, well, bullsh1t.

  139. 3b says:

    Lib: Agreed not a win, but it does change things. It’ is s credible possibility now, as before it was totally dismissed.

  140. BRT says:

    Lib, the primary issue here is that the media purposely shaped the narrative for their own reasons. There’s a major credibility issue here with nearly 100% of the journalism market and this is just the most recent in a long line of them spoon feeding the public absolute garbage.

    Yes, only a moron would promote it as truth before it’s been proven. But only a moron would also write it off before it’s been proven as well. Actually plenty of people said it definitively came from that market, whether they walked that back, is another story. But moreover, they tried to ram it down people’s throats that this was of natural origin. As of now, almost none of the evidence even points in that direction, and it’s not like those facts magically came to light the past week. So, why the sudden 180?

  141. Walking says:

    Libtard – I thought that because covid 19 had what’s known as a cleavage site was the smoking gun that the virus was man made. Inserting this process for the last 20 was done in labs to make a virus more ahem, receptive to infecting humans.

  142. leftwing says:

    “So, why the sudden 180?”

    January 20, 2021….

    I’m with 3b/BRT…the Orange Idiot is an orange idiot…well known.

    The real sadness is by rolling around in the mud with him the MSM sullied themselves forever….CBS/NYT will never be respected as before again, and their inability to just ignore the fool did nothing but bring them down and push more people into personal silos….

  143. BRT says:

    When Robert Redfield expressed his opinion just 8 weeks ago that he thought it was man made.

    Redfield said the virus’s strength, in how easily it spreads, suggests it was developed in a lab. If it had come from animals, it would have likely taken more time to adapt to spreading between humans, he said.

    “I do not believe this somehow came from a bat to a human — and, at that moment in time, the virus came to the human, became one of the most infectious viruses that we know in humanity for human-to-human transmission,” Redfield said. “It takes a while for it to figure out how to become more and more efficient in human-to-human transmission. I just don’t think this makes biological sense.”

    He was asked whether he believes the lab was working to specifically make the virus more efficient. “Let’s just say, I have a coronavirus, and I’m working on it — most of us in the lab are trying to grow virus,” he said. “We try to make it grow better and better and better and better, so we can do experiments and figure out about it. That’s the way I put it together.”

    The most likely origin “was from a laboratory — you know, escaped,” said Redfield, who served during former President Donald Trump’s administration. “Other people don’t believe that. That’s fine. Science will eventually figure it out.”

    Redfield added that he was “not implying any intentionality,” or accusing China of purposefully releasing the virus, and that he guesses it “started transmitting somewhere in September, October, in Wuhan.”

    Here’s Bloomberg’s “fact check” to immediately cast doubt. Note, they don’t address any evidence or scientific arguments, they merely quote their god, Fauci saying that his opinion doesn’t make “biological sense”.

  144. Bystander says:


    That is truth. I held off watching Fareneheit 11/9 but caught some of it the other day. Michael Moore spends alot of time blaming MSM media particuarly CNN, MSNBC, CBS. He shows them waiting 30m for Trump to show up at podium during 2016 campaign. It was embarassing..but Les Moonves said it “he is making us tons of money”

  145. BidenIsTheGOAT says:

    When I said that Obama and Fauci ‘s NIH were funding studies at the Wuhan lab it was called a conspiracy theory by some. “Suddenly” it becomes credible.

    Of course Fauci is compromised and involved in a cover up. Huge scandal. Bigger than Obama using intelligence agency’s to attempt to destroy the trump administration.

    Why anyone would listen to anything Fauci says is a mystery. He’s a fraud through and through.

  146. leftwing says:

    Interesting video BRT….not only does Bloomberg ‘fact check’ incorrectly they acknowledge in there that the required intermediate host animal for transmission from bats is not identified….same argument Gottlieb makes to support lab origin….

    I don’t ascribe any malice to Fauci…he’s just weak and that weakness has been used by both Administrations to their own ends….MSM is irreparably sullied for blatantly jettisoning fundamental tenets and standards of journalism and instead picking sides….

  147. Libturd says:

    Here’s what I think. It has nothing to do with politics or cover up.

    This probably was generated in a lab in which we helped fund. Still, not really a smoking gun, though in the grand scheme of things, worth looking at who and why we fund these organizations and certainly who is responsible.

    Is there press bias? Absolutely. This is a problem too. But I would argue that what few government sponsored news sources that existed were defunded by Trump. The truth is, there is left and right networks and news sources. The popular vote continues to be won by the left. Hence, the major networks are going to continue to cater to the larger group. It’s not like there aren’t places for the right to get THEIR news from, though, their outlets are all turning into tabloid opinion mills instead of reporting news.

    Too many wonks here and I really should just ignore their ignorant comments. I have faith that the vast majority here can see through all of the bullsh1t.

  148. Fast Eddie says:

    It’s not like there aren’t places for the right to get THEIR news from, though, their outlets are all turning into tabloid opinion mills instead of reporting news.

    You mean like this fine, unbiased form of reporting?

  149. JCer says:

    Here is the issue with the virus being naturally released. It comes from bats, which come from over 1300 miles away, so unless they came as food it would not naturally occur in Wuhan. Next is the issue of the intermediate host, there is an infinitesimally small chance this virus jumped from bats to humans and if it did they would have isolated it in bats by now, basically it is impossible for this virus to have jumped without an intermediate host. Where is the host? Do we even have a hypothesis? We should have seen the earliest incidents of sickness in the handlers of the animal host, there would be a pattern of infection to follow, there should be data that points towards the origin. Given the lack of information the logical conclusion is that they have nothing to share that would not incriminate them. Also the disappearance of lab workers, intelligence reports, and the purge of samples and data from WIV, indicates to me the Chinese believe the virus might have escaped as a result of a lab accident. The virus’ well adapted ability to infect humans is atypical for a zoonotic infection. Early Chinese misinformation was criminal and it is very suspicious that the Chinese war gamed this scenario as part of their Biological Warfare program.

  150. Fast Eddie says:

    Early Chinese misinformation was criminal and it is very suspicious that the Chinese war gamed this scenario as part of their Biological Warfare program.

    I said this more than once that this was a test run.

  151. Libturd says:


    Technically DeSantis is crazy. But I will be the first to admit that there are cheerleaders on both sides. It’s what sells. It also goes a long way to explain how the Apprentice’s supervisor was elected in the first place.

  152. JCer says:

    The world needs to play hardball with the Chinese. The US and EU should sanction the Chinese over the virus, China willingly infected the west while locking down internally, telling us it didn’t spread Human to Human. That is damn near an act of war, 500k american, how many Europeans died as a result and the economic impact.

    The Chinese steal with impunity, treat minorities within their borders poorly(to say the least) and are openly militaristic and antagonistic toward their neighbors. The west has facilitated this by conducting business with the Chinese, they need our markets. If we could close the US, EU and UK markets to Chinese goods we could cripple them. We would need to basically tariff and tie it to things like environment, worker safety, government subsidies, etc under the guise of ensuring goods sold in our markets are produced in accordance with our values, basically free trade on a somewhat equal playing field.

  153. Libturd says:


    You are right. Good luck. The Chinese have the same dollars our lobbyists have.

  154. 3b says:

    Jcer: It won’t happen. Big business loves China.

  155. Juice Box says:

    Check out the press from Rutgers professor Richard Ebright. He has been out there since the before this pandemic warning of the dangers of these BSL-4 research labs and their experiments. Seems there is a bit of an arms race going on. The US, EU and China have been opening several new labs to perform this kind of research. China is now building three new labs to experiment on monkeys and viruses.

    The original pause on gain of function research during the Obama administration on modifying viruses in these BSL-4 labs in ways that could make them more risky to humans back was set to resume just before this pandemic began, this was 2019 again in the USA on H1N5 avian flu, to do actual gain of function research here on US soil. Who said that it could not escape from a US based lab? There are no certainties for sure. This was funded again by National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases run by Dr. Fauci, avain flu gain of function research.

    They very idea of creating a chimeric virus in a lab like this ahead of what mother nature itself would or even could do to me just so we can study it and create cure for it ahead of a natural pandemic is in itself problematic.

    It to me looks to be a sneaky way around the 1972 Biological Weapons Convention treaty. A majority of the modern world realized at the time of this treaty that this type of research was inherently evil and could not really end up having a peaceful purpose. Developing medicines and vaccines to counter natural outbreaks sure. But for a deliberate diseases created by man? There is a fine line here and we may have crossed it with this type of research here at home and around the world.

  156. BRT says:

    I know Dr. Ebright from my Rutgers days. He was a brilliant researcher.

  157. JCer says:

    Lib/3B I know it won’t happen. We have allowed corporations to sell us out for cheap goods. Even worse the people did not really get the benefit of the cheap goods, the corps were able to buy impossibly cheap goods and fatten their margins.

    Corporations in Europe and the US would not be willing to bear the economic hardships and people would be up in arms about not being able to buy trinkets.

    We basically have been enriching our enemy who is assembling a military to destroy our pacific fleet. Why because the rich and powerful have a vested interest and demand it be so, they manipulate the media on the behalf of the CCCP. We are repeating the same mistakes we made with the Nazi’s, the behavior pattern is the same, the disappearing of minority groups members, re-education camps, slave labor camps, human organ harvesting, torture, etc are all things that would be very much at home in Nazi Germany. Our media and politicians ignore it at the behest of our corporations, China declares it internal business that should not concern the rest of the world. Everyone should be very afraid of a world where the CCCP is worlds leading power and exerts total control over asia-pac and africa.

  158. Libturd says:


    It’s definitely worth investigating, but it needs to be depoliticized to be both successful and credible. I like that Ebright is coming at it strictly from a scientific point-of-view. Will be interesting to see what comes from all of this. I hope we have some intelligence over there.

  159. JCer says:

    JB the only purpose of Gain of Function research is weapon development saying anything else is just positioning to claim you are not engaged in biological warfare. Why we’d be helping China with this type of research is insane, they totally are working on biological weapons and are directly taking their findings from this civilian research and giving it to the PLA.

    As for US labs, their safety record is worlds better than labs in China. So in all likelihood it would not have escaped from a US lab. China has been playing catch up to the west and Japan and has taken loads of shortcuts, engages in risky behavior, and outright steals intellectual property.

  160. No One says:

    South Park already figured out how the virus jumped from bats to humans
    (watch from about 2:20)

  161. Phoenix says:

    “The world needs to play hardball with the Chinese.”

    Wonder how that will turn out. My guess is not well.

    Would have been a lot easier had we not given our corporations free reign.

    Can’t blame Gen Z for that.

  162. Libturd says:

    NoOne. South Park is brilliant. Should be required viewing.

  163. dollarbill says:

    TSLA transitioning from radar to cameras:
    This is noteworthy because one of the reasons for TSLA’s valuation was that the massive history of data collected during testing of semi-automated driving gave it a leg up on competitors. With the switch to cameras, all of the collected radar-based data is useless. An unfortunate consequence of the way Deep Learning works.

  164. 3b says:

    Phoenix: Blame the Boomers.

  165. The Great Pumpkin says:

    Tesla bows to Beijing once again, unveils Shanghai data centre to meet cybersecurity requirements
    All data generated from cars sold in mainland China will be stored within the country, company says in Weibo post
    Strengthened rules a result of government’s national security concerns, need to safeguard consumer interests, analyst says

  166. BRT says:

    That’s bullish for Tesla. They are not only an energy company, now they are surveillance as well.

  167. Phoenix says:

    Every one of their cars is spying 24-7.

  168. JCer says:

    Phoenix, realistically money and greed is the only thing keeping China afloat. They have no natural allies, even the Russians fear them. Everywhere from Munich to Manilla the people, have animosity towards the CCCP, for Germans it’s the fact that they are stealing their intellectual property and dumping cheap goods killing German jobs and in places like the Philippines China is an existential threat and economically has suppressed them. The issue is people are ignorant so very few realize the threat, the media and our governments are complicit in this at the behest of moneyed interests.

    Pumps all corps bow to China, it’s a sad state of affairs for all the woke bs, they literally tiptoe around a government who operates slave labor camps……. What’s more pertinent microaggressions or literal actual SLAVE labor in the 21st century with a side of ethnic cleansing.

    It makes you wonder if we had more of an economic interest in Serbia would we have looked the other way on Milosevic? I mean at this point the probable body count in China’s eastern region probably exceeds what was done by the Serbs.

  169. 3b says:

    Jcer: Good points all around. I just don’t understand why the Left won’t criticize China.

  170. Fast Eddie says:

    I just don’t understand why the Left won’t criticize China.

    The left envies their oppressive, onerous and tyrannical ways. Academia and progressive politicians pine for a national people’s congress of their very own.

  171. Ez says:

    3:36 oh Lord

  172. leftwing says:

    “That’s bullish for Tesla. They are not only an energy company, now they are surveillance as well.”

    LOL, post of the day….

    Fcuked up thing, it’s true. Shares up 17 bucks!

  173. JCer says:

    3b, simple, the left makes no comment because they have ties to the Chinese and are supported by the moneyed interests. Secondly there is no political value, where as they use the woke BS to keep certain groups captive to their political party.

  174. Phoenix says:

    3Just follow the money. Your government is bribed by corporations, who have no national interest, just money, just profit.

    Boomers enjoyed the lifestyle and profited from it, stock market gains, offshoring profits, outsourcing profits.

    Don’t blame the Chinese. They sold the dope and the boomers bought it.

    Except for the Govt workers, Police and Teachers. They kept their unions, job protection, and profits, plus the benefits they gained by good American jobs being outsourced / cheap imported goods.

    Those pensions will help them sail off into the sunset with grace.

  175. 3b says:

    Phoenix: Boomers destroyers the country and I am a tail end boomer. Public sector unions milking the non union work force. And they still moan it’s not enough.

  176. 3b says:

    JCer: My biggest complaint with the self identifying Liberals, is their hypocrisy. Russia evil , China they ignore.

  177. 3b says:

    Biden and Putin to meet in June. That should be interesting. I expect Putin
    to enter the room bare chested on horse back.

  178. Libturd says:


    The sad truth is that you are correct once again. A populist will always wrongfully blame all of the ills of society on the most convenient scapegoat, be it China or the Jews, or the immigrants (or whichever group is ripe for the tavern talk). A cancel culture driven progressive is careful not to scapegoat. Their base is too focused on identity politics to make a big deal out of China’s desire to dominate.

    At the end of the day, both issues are important to the cultural and economic success of our country. But, remember what is most important to our politicians. Enriching themselves at the expense of their zombie voters. That’s all that really matters.

    For example, I thought the infrastructure bill was pretty good. It was relatively cheap. Fixed a lot of long-term structural issues and wasn’t THAT loaded with pork, surprisingly. Not a single vote of Republican support. Is it any wonder that the Left wouldn’t throw the right a bone over China, even though a China Bill was next in line for major issues the administration plans to tackle? What’s it been? 4 months?

    Fear not, the Dems will just enrich themselves nonetheless. So will the remaining Republicans. Same as it ever was. Blue collar workers and collapsing bridges and tunnels be damned.

  179. No One says:

    The left occasionally criticizes China, when they have to for political purposes. But yea, leftist are generally collectivist and anti-individualism. And China is now the number 1 collectivist country in the world. All of their propaganda to their own people combine collectivism and nationalism. One party, no debate or deviation from the party line allowed. They control all media and social media in a way that we in the west can only begin to imagine lately (thanks to progressive thought police taking over US social media companies, after people had abandoned the almost unanimously leftist mainstream media for them). But China has been doing it for decades and they now have a couple of generations who actually believe the propaganda, who have been taught to hate the west, who have been taught that it was the U.S. and Europe and Japan who were to blame for China’s problems of the last 150 years, and who now all hunger to give the rest of the world the comeuppance they deserve. A family friend in China working for a state owned company says they are now required to spend about 50% of their working day reading and writing essays on “Xi Jinping Though” besides doing their normal work. What % of the day were Chinese required to study Mao Zedong thought in the 1960s? What % of the day were Germans required to study Hitler thought in the 1930s?

  180. Phoenix says:

    It’s not left vs right.
    It’s corporate vs the rest of us. And as much as left is “collectivist,” the right is corporatist.

    Greed is good, right?

  181. Phoenix says:

    How many Americans have sold their real estate, corporations, or other items to the Chinese?

    Americans have been and continue to be their own worst enemies.

  182. Phoenix says:

    ‘All white people are racist’: Brandeis University assistant dean defends critical race theory and says she hates ‘whiteness’

    Brandeis University Assistant Dean Kate Slater took to Instagram on the anniversary of George Floyd’s murder to rail against ‘whiteness’
    Slater, who is white, claimed that ‘all white people are racist’ because they have been ‘conditioned in a society’ where ‘whiteness in the norm’
    Slater, who has worked at Brandeis for six months, defended critical race theory: a concept that says race is a social construct that leads to inequality

  183. The Great Pumpkin says:

    Straight out of an episode of “The Twilight Zone.” How does one become so crazy?

    “Brandeis University Assistant Dean Kate Slater took to Instagram on the anniversary of George Floyd’s murder to rail against ‘whiteness’
    Slater, who is white, claimed that ‘all white people are racist’ because they have been ‘conditioned in a society’ where ‘whiteness in the norm’
    Slater, who has worked at Brandeis for six months, defended critical race theory: a concept that says race is a social construct that leads to inequality”

  184. The Great Pumpkin says:

    I think a lot of it has to do with the “fairness” movement. They taught a generation to obsesses over fairness in a world that is not fair. Madness.

  185. Ez says:

    Echo Park, booted 200 homeless folks, won’t let them back in. Scoured the place.
    Amazing to hear the displaced whine about how they aren’t welcome to be displaced in Echo Park.

  186. leftwing says:

    “One party, no debate or deviation from the party line allowed. They [the Chinese] control all media and social media in a way that we in the west can only begin to imagine…”

    The US is doing very well in the censorship department, thank you very much.

    Today is the first day one won’t get banned from facebook for questioning if the virus originated in the Wuhan lab.


    Sure glad we’re the land of the free…..

  187. leftwing says:

    “It’s not left vs right.”

    See my post above….

    No, it is most certainly left v. right.

  188. Ez says:

    Celebrate victim hood.

  189. The Great Pumpkin says:

    “Everyone has a plan, till they get punched in the mouth.” -Mike Tyson

  190. Juice Box says:

    If you are interested in the TESLA camera tech it has come a long way.

  191. Ez says:

    BRANCHBURG, N.J. —Bill Paliouras dreamed of a backyard Eden. Not your garden-variety deck with stackable plastic chairs and a kettle charcoal grill — why settle for that? — but a loaded, supersize, decked-out deck with an outdoor living room, dining area, 54-inch grill, full kitchen, bar, two-draft kegerator, oversize island, massive weatherproof television, elaborate sound system and semicircular fire lounge.

    “I’m Greek. I love being outside. I wanted to extend my outdoor living during the winter,” says the 45-year-old dentist. His deck kitchen is only a few steps from the family’s sublime indoor one.

    What else? A second dining area, a pizza oven and a mammoth rotisserie grill from Greece. To control climate and mood, a louvered roof, infrared heaters, ceiling fans and Vegas-level lighting. Leading to the pool area, Paliouras desired twin curved staircases because — and this is a common exterior design request — “I wanted to replicate the inside part of my house outside.”

    Sean McAleer completed the dream deck in June for $350,000; Paliouras’s entire outdoor extravaganza including landscaping, pool, waterfall, slide, hot tub and grotto, totaled $550,000. “Why would you want to go to the beach when you can hang out on a beautiful deck with a TV, day beds and refrigerator?” asks McAleer, owner of Deck Remodelers. “It’s all there.”

  192. grim says:

    Payback on resale is probably less than 20%. You could spend weeks in Maui every year for less money. Beach shack at the shore is a better deal with far better payback.

    Used to tell clients all the time, when assessing the value of a home, value the pool at zero or negative. In the grand scheme of covid, that’s probably shifted to being a positive, however, it will swing back (it always does). We’re already seeing it, people are sick of being home, staying local. Staycation is a bad word now. If you haven’t booked your vacations for the next 3 years already, you should.

  193. grim says:

    NJ on the cusp of 60% total population with at least 1 shot, passes 70% of adults with at least 1 shot. Given the widespread covid cases in NJ, we’ve got to be solidly in herd territory now.

  194. Juice Box says:

    I have a nice pool and yard, but no way no how would I ever put in all that other crap.
    We only eat physically outside a few times a year, and I have a nice teak furniture set for that. Even with a full outdoor covered kitchen it would hardly be used. I grill all the time but don’t need a kitchen for it, heck who would want to clean two kitchens after making dinner?

    This is New Jersey you get at best 6 months of pool time and that is if you toss $100 bills into the pool heater in the cooler spring and fall weeks.

  195. Juice Box says:

    Had blood drawn yesterday for my annual physical. Technician did not get the covid vaccine shot and believes once the masks are gone covid will come surging back next month. I was not about to argue with a guy about to stick a needle in my arm so I nodded and said nothing as the needle went in nice and easy….. Next time instead I will just mention how nice the weather is….

    I have asked a few younger people in their 20s if they got the shot so far a good deal have not. Perhaps the Governor should do some kind of give a way. Perhaps host a summer party for all of them week at Island Beach State park.

  196. grim says:

    Haughty NJ is killing it – rich going to get richer, because the rich are goin to work.

    Millburn – 100% adult vaccinated 1 dose
    Livingston – 100% adult vaccinated 1 dose
    Summit – 85% adult vaccinated 1 dose
    Glen Ridge – 95% adult vaccinated 1 dose
    Far Hills – 92% adult vaccinated 1 dose
    Ridgewood – 83% adult vaccinated 1 dose
    Bernards – 87% adult vaccinated 1 dose
    Mountain Lakes – 87% adult vaccinated 1 dose
    Paramus – 94% adult vaccinated 1 dose
    Mantoloking – 91% adult vaccinated 1 dose

  197. grim says:

    These other places, not so much.

    Passaic – 52%
    Garfield – 48%
    Newark – 48%
    Irvington – 37%
    East Orange – 40%

    The whole of Burlington County (wherever the hell that is), is doing pretty shitty as well.

  198. grim says:

    Trenton – 28%

    Way to go NJ State Capital.

  199. The Great Pumpkin says:

    Stop thinking life is “fair,” because it’s not.

    And we think 300k sick payouts are bad with police chiefs…this guy takes down a company and gets 245 million to get out of the way.

    “Former WeWork Chief’s Gargantuan Exit Package Gets New Sweetener

    WeWork gave ex-CEO Neumann $245 million stock deal to clear way for listing, filings show”

  200. The Great Pumpkin says:


    550k on upgrading the yard? NJ is swimming in money. Taxes don’t seem to be holding them back.

  201. BRT says:

    Juice, you clean the outdoor kitchen with the leaf blower, come on.

  202. Fast Eddie says:

    By the looks of those vax numbers above, it’s apparent that the vax favors the more affluent or “privileged” folks. By the way, I picked up a prescription yesterday at CVS and spoke with the lonely, bored technician sitting there waiting for someone to step in the makeshift cubicle for a jab. I spoke with him briefly. My point is that any of those towns above that fall well under 50% for the vax can simply walk into just about any place and get a jab. I wonder why some towns are better than 80% vaxed and others are in the opposite range. It’s a bit of a rhetorical question as I have a personal theory.

  203. leftwing says:

    Asymmetric risk…..NOT A RECOMMENDATION

    PACX (SPAC) announces merger with Acorn, well known millennial pseudo-fintech company.

    Effective floor on the price 120 days out or so of 10.00 as shares can be put back to the SPAC at that amount (tail risk here if the transaction fails, low probability but present).

    Pre-market shares at 10.08 right now. Went as high as 10.60. Closed yesterday at 9.75.


    Shares should have strong YOLOer demand most of whom don’t have access to pre-market. So looking for a slight pop on market open. Company CEO on CNBC at 11A hour show. Could be another pump there. Price paid for Acorn is speculative but not horrible relative to other similar deals.

    Risks are the usual no earnings for three years so deal will get slammed on that. Institutions in at 10 at IPO may sell just to get out even so there may be a huge share overhang at 10 or so putting a ceiling on price. Plus the sector is absolutely hated right now.


    Hit and run, less than a day trade. Pick your stop loss and set your profit requirement…looking for a quick quarter or half buck. Lotto ticket if it actually pops. If you’re not hit by the time the 11A show interview occurs GTFO. Personally, I find it hard to think this thing closes substantially beneath yesterday’s close today plus you have the 10 put if you get really jammed up so you are risking 0.08 for whatever upside target you choose, with the tail risk caveat above.

    YMMV. Do your own diligence and trade, do not rely on anything I’ve written, I’m a retired HS janitor with no financial certifications whatsoever who loses a lot of money on many trades. In other words, don’t be stupid.

  204. Juice Box says:

    BRT – Not the one that guy built.

    He is killing himself to pay for a 1/2 millon dollar backyard he will hardly use. How many root canals do you need to perform to net 1/2 million dollars for the yard?

    “With the pandemic subsiding, Paliouras looks forward to entertaining more guests. But he practices at seven offices across New Jersey, performing root canals six days a week. He often leaves before dawn. His wife, Irene, and their two daughters look forward to a time when Saturday is a day off and enjoyed outside.

    Paliouras takes it in stride. He has his dream deck, his outdoor Xanadu. “You know,” he says, “it takes a lot of root canals to pay for ‘The Resort.’ ”

  205. Libturd says:

    Left, did you look at Veev?

  206. Juice Box says:

    re: PACX (SPAC)

    ACORNs. “Financial Wellness System” It has been around a decade. Subscription fees and fractional shares geared towards “savings”. So when you purchase something via the application it will allow you to ” round up purchases and automatically invest the change”

    How is owning fractional shares savings? Presentation below.

    BTW – Jlo and Arod put money in this one.

  207. Juice Box says:

    Pumps – Wework is about saving face now for SoftBank out of Japan. It imploded two years ago, failed IPO and because of the pandemic came back to life. It still loses tons of money, and the founder Adam was a PITA they had to get rod of him at any cost. His original package prepandemic was near a billion dollars. They are actually saving money and saving face in this settlement if you can believe it.

  208. Juice Box says:

    Here comes the real sauce for me with F and GM in my portfolio as of early this year.

    Green new deal folks….


    Party line vote 14-14 still advances. This bill takes tax credits from fossil fuel companies and give it to the electric car companies.

    The U.S. Senate Finance Committee advanced legislation on Wednesday that would boost electric vehicle tax credits to as much as $12,500 for EVs that are assembled by union workers in the United States. The bill would limit tax credits to vehicles with a retail price below $80,000 to qualify for the tax credits.

  209. Phoenix says:

    Sounds great. I’ll be in the market soon for a new car.

    Only question I have is where am I supposed to plug it in?

  210. leftwing says:

    Lightening up some of my Ford right now…..crazy run….

    The pop this week was yesterday’s Capital Markets Day….not sure what the next catalyst is so figure I’ll take some off table….

  211. Fast Eddie says:

    Electric cars: a) How are the materials extracted/mined to make the batteries; b) What is the manufacturing process to make them; c) What source is used to make the electricity so that you can charge your car; d) How are these batteries discarded; e) Is all of the above more friendly to the environment than the combustion engine?

  212. BRT says:

    and guess what, Exxon is now transitioning to masquerading as a green company.

  213. BRT says:

    Funny thing, he’s trying to recreate the backyard they would have in Greece. It would probably have cost him $5k there.

  214. 3b says:

    BRT: Exactly what I was thinking. At 500k he could buy a small Greek isle!!

  215. No One says:

    Homeowner question alert!
    What grill should I buy?
    In my new Florida home, on my lanai next to the pool there is a natural gas pipe hookup to feed a gas grill. It’s currently hooked up to a rusted-out Weber gas grill with a broken ignitor. So I’m thinking of replacing it. I’ve never been a big bbq guy, especially after I discovered that cast iron pans on the stove and broiler makes 1 or 2 great steaks quickly. I don’t think I have the patience to smoke brisket for 20 hours. I might occasionally use it to cook dinner, say a salmon fillet, or a roast, or host a party with burgers and sausages. Where the gas hookup is located, it will not be sheltered from sun and rain.

  216. Juice Box says:

    You want a permanent inground post mounted natural gas gas grill? They aren’t cheap like the propane ones at Home Depot. I would go shopping and see them first hand, but for a permanent installation stainless steel is the way to go.

  217. No One says:

    EV subsidies. Not just made in America, but made by union workers in America. Not all comrades are equal. Next year, the law will be restricted to subsidies for cars made by LBQTXYZ workers of color.

    Pumpkin, the word they use now isn’t “fairness” it’s “equity,” and “equity” means whatever they want it to mean. Because the concepts of individual rights and equality before the law has been deemed “problematic” and white supremacist thinking, according to the new intellectual Red Guards.

  218. LurksMcGee says:


    Just purchased a Weber Spirit 2 E-310 this week. Had the same use case as you (home came with a natural gas grill with broken ignitor and the bottom finally rusted a bit.) Its outside on our deck and put in the same spot it was in before. Exposed to the rain/sun (in NJ) but we just have a nice cover for it.

    Took about 30 minutes to put together. I don’t smoke brisket and mainly just want it for steaks, burgers, sausages and occasionally salmon. The only thing is whether you’d find the wheels to be a deterrent. Other than that, I’m satisfied.

  219. No One says:

    I don’t think I would do post mounted. It will be standing on tiles near the pool and it would be nice to be able to move it a few feet occasionally. I see the current Weber has rollers to facilitate that. The natural gas hookup comes via flexible hose. A high-btu side burner might be nice if could stir-fry at high temperature with a wok on it.

  220. BRT says:

    The Blackstone griddle is a great outdoor cooking apparatus. On the big one, it’s like you are operating a street cart.

  221. BRT says:

    btw, No One, the blackstone is one big cast iron griddle over 4 burners that you can set the output on.

  222. Libturd says:

    No one. Just buy a basic Weber and have a plumber install it. Buy a cover and always use it. Grills rust out when they are not covered. They will last forever if you simply cover them. There are other brands, but they are not nearly as reliable nor is it easy to replace parts. Ignore features since you will use it so rarely. A small 3 burner will do it for you. If they offer one with a side burner for a pot of corn or baked beans, I use mine a lot to keep from heating the home on a hot Summer day. The best grill for the money is the Spirit II E310. $520. No sideburner. I don’t think they offer it on that model. It’s SS where it needs to be. No nonsense.

  223. LurksMcGee says:

    Seconding what Libturd said. You probably don’t even need a plumber depending on existing gas line. I re-did it myself just from some youtube research.

  224. JCer says:

    10:40 you want something that will last for many years(20 or more), there aren’t too many units built to that sort of standard Lynx is certainly one, my sister has one that is 16 years old and besides the igniters(newer lynx have a better system) it sill looks great and works well, probably needs new burners but other than that very little in the way of parts that needed replacement. They are expensive though, I’ve heard good things about Blaze, bull and Lion grills but they are made in China. The most important thing is all 304 or 316 stainless(also the weight of steel used) and the availability of consumable parts, just assume you’ll need to periodically replace igniters, burners, flame dispersing materials(shields, trays, ceramics) anything in close proximity to the flames because even stainless cannot stand up to the high heat. I have an Altima grill which is no longer made, it came with my house and is at least 15 years old, it has held up quite well and works nicely(it’s fully firebrick lined but you cannot get all the parts for it which is quite annoying so buying from smaller brands isn’t necessarily advisable.

  225. No One says:

    Lurks, your grill is the one currently sitting there. But it doesn’t appear to have had a cover on it. A quarter mile from the ocean and in the air and rain, I’m not surprised it’s rusted, but I don’t know how long it’s been out there.

    That looks like an interesting concept, but I imagine the food tastes more like it’s from a diner than from a BBQ. Have you used it? Flat surface like that wouldn’t work for wok stir-fries I think. I also hear that BBQ purists hate gas grills anyway, lacking the taste of the real thing. But hauling new and used charcoal briquets across my pool area isn’t going to happen.

  226. Libturd says:


    I have the

    It’s cast-iron and weighs 40 pounds. A real beaut.

    Gator wanted a pizza oven and there was no way I was spending a fortune on it. Did some research and got the Camp Chef double burner (60,000 btu) for $60 on sale at Dick’s, plus the $110 pizza oven attachment and it makes absolutely incredible pies. We are saving so much over pizza shops it’s incredible. I got the griddle attachment, which I haven’t yet used, for $80. All in got the griddle, stove, pizza oven and cover for under $250. I can get the pizza oven to 750 degrees in 5 minutes. I’ve cooked about 15 pies so far and am on still on the first tank of propane (if you get them refilled, they hold a lot more than when you do an exchange). Cheaper too.

  227. JCer says:

    To all the Weber fans, yes they hold up very well and have great parts availability. At the lower end I’d recommend it(especially compared to Chinese junk like Nexgrill ) but once you start climbing in price they simply do not compare to some of the better units and they too are made in China. Cooking performance is also not even close, the weber generates nice even heat but does not get to the same temperatures as a Lynx nor can it generate the same kind of sear and it’s flame-tamers are not nearly as good as the ceramic briquette trays in a lynx let alone the ceramic roller upgrade in a Lion. Napoleon grills are another brand to look at, some of their units are made in Canada and they are quite similar to the weber in price/performance.

  228. Libturd says:

    No One,

    Perfect. Buy a new one and keep the old one for parts. Throw out the outtards, but keep the innards. Put a bungee cord over the cover to hold it in place when the winds blow before the daily thunderstorm. Forget charcoal. The difference in flavor is not worth the level of maintenance.

  229. leftwing says:

    Out of this PACX shit….there’s $3200 I’ll not get back… equivalent of a discussion with Pumps…God this CEO is as weak as I’ve seen….

  230. leftwing says:

    I’ll have to dig in to VEEV Lib….I’m green for the day in my trading account thanks to BBY and DG but need some more gains, that fcuking SPAC really pisses me off.

  231. Juice Box says:

    Portable Wok?

    You can get a WOK ring for a grill side burner…The gas grill gets more than hot enough you just need a Wok rings, aka “wok stand” or “wok stand ring”

    There are a million versions from cheap to expensive.

  232. Bystander says:

    Gee, all these fine US companies using their bailout money to employee more people in India, despite COVID. Meanwhile, we have 3 resignations in Pune in one week with many more expected fron vendor. On a call yesterday where entire group vented that losing people and need to open up purse strings to keep people. It was crickets from management. The arrogance is off-charts. They think their name guarantees people will jump. Two offer declines this week as well. Back to square one for hiring. 7 more out there and doubt any will join. Closer they get to notice end, the more offers come to candidates

    IBM- 100K employees
    Oracle- 40K
    JPM – 35K

    “India’s back office business faces a reckoning from Covid-19”

    One advantage could outweigh all others: people
    For all the upheaval, executives say they believe India’s biggest long-term advantage is likely to outlive any pandemic: its workforce.

    With fierce competition around the world for programmers and software engineers, they argue that nowhere else can companies find so many workers at the right price.

    Both JPMorgan and Credit Suisse, which already have sizeable operations in the country, announced plans this month to hire 4,000 and 1,000 more India employees respectively in 2021 to boost their technology.

    “Companies will go where the talent is,” said Sangeeta Gupta, senior vice-president at Nasscom.

  233. JCer says:

    Lib, I have a wood pizza oven, it was like $750, stainless steel and I’ve gotten it to 1200 degrees, you cannot cook pizza at those temps :), any dome temps above 900 are troublesome. Not sure why people spend what they spend on outdoor ovens, if you are just making pizza you can easily go stainless, otherwise you can get a Portuguese wood oven for a few grand, people spending 10-12 grand on an exterior oven are nuts.

    You can consistently make pretty good pizza with a steel and the broiler in your oven, you heat the oven to 500 or as high as it goes for 20-30 minutes, than go to the broiler, heat the steel with the broiler for 5 minutes, turn the oven to bake, after a minute broil the pizza for 30 seconds. With my old wolf stove(totally analog with a knob) in my apartment I could make pretty authentic Neapolitan Pizza with a floor temp of 600 degrees and a dome temp of 800-900 when the broiler is running.

    My current electric oven doesn’t work quite as well but still makes a very good pizza, it just doesn’t get that hot, heat the oven as high as it goes, once the steel is heated turn the boiler on, it maintains about 500 degrees floor temp and maybe 600 above the pizza with the broiler on. This how I make my pizza when the weather doesn’t cooperate.

  234. Fast Eddie says:


    It’s one thing I fiercely agree with you on… the f.ucking outsourcing. I secretly wish the XCOMs of all these companies get a pink slip. Maybe I’ll p1ss to give them a drink if I’m in the mood.

  235. Phoenix says:

    Outsourcing is Anti-American. Borderline treason.

  236. Fast Eddie says:

    And it’s like a revolving door… a few leave and then a few more need to be hired, all needing to be onboarded and brought up to speed only to leave. Rinse and repeat. Management keeps shooting themselves in the head, wasting more money on the revolving door rather than hiring local talent that not only will will stay, BUT UNDERSTANDS THE BUSINESS CULTURE IN THIS PART OF THE WORLD!! F.uck em all.

  237. Libturd says:

    To By and Eddie,

    A great big yup.

  238. Libturd says:


    My pizza oven is essentially a stone with a sheet of SS arched over it and closed in the back.

    It’s $100. It works amazingly well. In 6 to 8 minutes, you get that perfect pizza oven char on the bottom with the browning of the bubbly cheese on top. You still taste the yeast in the dough, but it cracks as you bite into it. You can also absolutely load it with toppings/sauce and not have to worry about dough getting soggy. The 60K BTUs on the stone cause the dough to essentially sear. I do my first 180 rotation between 90 and 120 seconds since the open side of the oven is cooler than the back side and want the pizza to cook evenly. We are still experimenting with flours. Have some really good artisan style doughs (puffier). But haven’t yet nailed a thin crust variety that has the right gluten stretch to it so it doesn’t rip.

  239. 3b says:

    Bystander: It would have been nice if Congress grilled the financial titans when they came to give their BS testimony/ talk the other day. But of course that would never happen! Corporate America destroyed America, and when they screw up they get bailed out , and a good scolding! It is all BS!!

  240. Bystander says:


    I am only giving the unfiltered, ground level reality of working in tech with a heavily outsoured IB. India workforce is absolute chaos on every level imaginable. Covid and turnover are wreaking havoc on teams across board. Vendors can’t supply profiles and when they do asking insane rates for weaker candidates. We just took someone who used their side work during college as working experience yet got highest rate. It is absolute desperation time. My intial thought was that chaos may help drive rates up here. No H1b can come into country and covid taking out lots of people..but I think banks will ride it out until cheaper resources available. It is all the appearance of leveraging cheaper labor. It looks great for stock purposes. Reality is that projectsthat could be done in 6-8 months with US resources now take 2 years. Management just does not care and we will simply move releases to 2022. It is funny how we want infrastructure to goose blue collar jobs but some new outsourcing tax or banking reg would b%tchslap the Dimon’s of the world to opening up purse strings for US tech. Time is the enemy here. Banks feel no heat to spend

  241. JCer says:

    Bystander, the offshore talent is typically very weak, there best want to come here and earn 3-4x an Indian salary as well as live in a country with functioning infrastructure and institutions. If you have a real conversation with an Indian national who is really being honest they will openly tell you of the struggles in India, it is very much a third world country with third world issues. Very few of the most qualified really want to be in India, those who do usually want to come abroad and then go back as a manager with an elevated title and pay scale.

    In my experience if you find talent in India it either wants to migrate or does not stay with you for long, as the market is hot and your firm isn’t going to give them the 30% raise they can very easily get on the open market. Ops people and even BA’s are easier to source in India than technical people, with tech people forget about it. I cannot even believe some of the conversations I have with my developers, what would take 2 days with my US team takes 2 weeks. Technically the majority are deficient as compared to the US based staff and there grasp of our business and functionally what is needed could be an even bigger challenge.

  242. BidenIsTheGOAT says:

    Funny thing about gov investigating itself.

    It never finds any wrongdoing. And people implicated in the scandal are put in charge of the investigation.

    Obama and the intelligence illegally spying on trump using fraudulent FISA applications is a recent example. The FBI of course Birkenstock’s no laws after investigating itself.

    And now Fauci is going to get to the bottom of what happened in Wuhan. Sure.

  243. Fabius Maximus says:

    The Webber Sprit with the cover is the correct choice for that set up. Just be ready to replace the bars every few years as the salt and the humidity eats the soft steel.

    I run a Genesis NG with a side burner as my workhorse. I have a Bullet and a Lil Smokey if I am camping or feel the need for Charcoal. At some point I will build an Oven to run coal or wood. For most people that “Charcoal Taste” is the acrid oil left over from their last flare up.

    Camp Chefs are great up to the point you have to clean them. My next project will be the DIY Salamander for steak.

  244. Fabius Maximus says:

    On a Webinar and the guy just said that it used to take 8 people to generate 1 million of revenue on Wall St, that number is down to 2.5.

    My question is can the lemon be squeezed any further.

  245. Nomad says:

    Nothing on the Big Green Egg?

    BBQ Dragon blower connects to charcoal chimney and gets it white hot in a couple of minutes. No starter fluid. A couple sheets of newspaper.

  246. Bystander says:


    Agree but I manage my team’s BA headcount and probably conducted 50+ interviews over last 6 months for 3 open roles. While you get profiles, lots of India BAs are limited scope, payments processing or website maintenance where items are easily understood, mostly provided for them on template. A good BA that can drive requirements globally, understands Agile, stakeholder management, tech skills and great documentation and hard as any tech hire. They are gold and basically make or break a project. I found one and offered guy..I highly doubt he makes it here. He will get higher offer, I know it.

  247. leftwing says:

    “I am only giving the unfiltered, ground level reality of working in tech with a heavily outsoured IB.”

    The work product must be absolute shit. Two platforms I use are merging, I can easily see both going to hell because the work to integrate, if possible or desirable, would be monumental or they effectively maintain both…..

    “And now Fauci is going to get to the bottom of what happened in Wuhan. Sure.”

    Not sure Fauci could find the bottom of a hole if he fell into it.

  248. LurksMcGee says:

    The epitome of being a Karen. Down to asking for a manager of an airport.

  249. JCer says:

    Nomad, the big green egg/kamado style grills are awesome for certain things, for general purpose cooking anything with thermal mass and insulation outperforms a gas grill. The gas grill that came with my house is fire brick lined and it really does allow for almost an oven effect and multiple modes of cooking. You can do many different styles of cooking with it and if you weren’t already wedded to gas I’d suggest it, you can bake, roast, grill, etc it is very versatile, what keeps people away is having to deal with charcoal. I have an old weber kettle I use from time to time and have thought about replacing it with a kamado grill. I usually cook on the weber with dry small strips of oak log started with kindling and maybe a few sheets of paper, it’s not too hard to cook with wood fire.

  250. leftwing says:

    “On a Webinar and the guy just said that it used to take 8 people to generate 1 million of revenue on Wall St, that number is down to 2.5.”

    Order of magnitude of change sounds too large. IB revenue producing areas were always incredibly efficient….maybe there has been a change but doubtful to that degree….

    Also depends how one defines “Wall Street” and which “people” are counted….revenue producing business group profiles are very different – trading desk vs. banker – as are the support areas for each group.

  251. leftwing says:

    Lib, glanced at VEEV since it has earnings reporting….neat company, no opinion, if I were to go into it LT there are people I would ask with informed opinions…kind of deep end of pool for you, no, don’t see your usual value play?

  252. Fast Eddie says:


    Based on the video above, I posit that she tried desperately for years to get la1d without any success, turned to lesb1an1sm, was rejected there and is at wits end. All will pay now for her misery.

  253. JCer says:

    Bystander your issue is you lean on the BA’s because the development staff lacks the requisite skills and knowledge. Realistically in an agile team everyone has the requisite knowledge, the BA is embedded and is really there to document and report on the process. The most productive teams I’ve been on, that worked on the most complicated subject matter had essentially zero traditional BA’s. The systems and products were driven by the technical folks(I’d describe as techno-functional experts) and the users directly(with very little in the way of documentation or reporting). I’ve done enhancements for your employer in 8 weeks that their internal development teams wanted 2 years to do in order to retain business, speaking directly with their customer to define a roll out of the features, we are talking brain surgery on old systems. Why you might ask, it’s because the users don’t understand what they really need but rather “know” what they “want” and most BA’s don’t understand systems enough to understand what is easily done vs. what is difficult. System design is walking that line and if it not done by techno-functional experts(that can be developers dabbling in BA work or BA’s with more than a cursory understanding of systems/data) things can get really ugly fast.

    I deal with Indian BA’s and yes there is a knowledge gap(the youngest hire no basically nothing) but they also are not as mobile as developers, it isn’t so hard to retain BA’s so you can develop talent and skills. We do a much better job retaining Indian BA’s over developers but you cannot be as cheap as your employer, as you train that BA you need to ensure you can keep them. With developers you need to give big increases often and an untenable salary to keep someone in the long term, most management teams balk at this. The only thing to do to keep that person is to get them a visa and bring them state side, easier to do that than to explain to management that you need to give an immediate 60% salary boost.

    I know your firm really well and would not want to have to depend on any of their “technology solutions” for my revenue generating activities. Seriously your systems are cr@p, and I don’t think you’ll disagree with me, they haven’t made a meaningful investment in nearly 2 decades and in fact have made things worse by giving the maintenance over to a bunch of offshore vendors who have just mucked things up.

  254. 3b says:

    In my GA trading and sales days we generated far more individually, and that’s going back a while.

  255. 3b says:

    Should have said GS days.

  256. 3b says:

    Fast: Or she is just a miserable human being!!

  257. Bystander says:


    I have to comments to our employee survey because management really cares about us. Can I copy and paste your post? ;>)

  258. The Great Pumpkin says:

    Older generation moves on to suburbs. New generation moves in.


    “Younger New Yorkers Prop Up Lagging Rental Market
    Real-estate data shows median age of New York City renters has fallen from 28.6 years to 23.5 years between January and May“

  259. The Great Pumpkin says:

    Cathie Wood’s Bad Spring Is Only a Blip When the Future Is So Magnificent
    Her flagship fund ARKK, which had a dramatic breakout during the pandemic, is way off its peak as bold bets on Tesla and Bitcoin have faltered. But for the superstar portfolio manager, there’s always five years from now.

  260. The Great Pumpkin says:

    Wood may survive being wrong about the little things if she’s right about the big stuff. She and her clients may still make money if we really are at the beginning of a new economy that looks nothing like our pre-pandemic reality. With fears of inflation running rampant, she predicts the opposite, a sort of golden age for companies, workers, and investors. The economy can grow rapidly without triggering inflation, according to Wood, because these new technologies—batteries, DNA sequencing, robots, and others, all plunging in price—can make companies and workers so much more efficient.
    An economy transforming this rapidly will have plenty of victims. An ARK “Bad Ideas” report published in October listed several: physical stores and bank branches, linear TV, freight rail and other forms of traditional transportation. Almost half of the S&P 500 is threatened, Wood has said. The hardest hit will be those who spent the past decade juicing earnings rather than investing in the future. “The other side of disruptive innovation is creative destruction.”
    Workers don’t face the same threat, says Wood, who has predicted a coming labor shortage. Technology will create vast categories of jobs that “we cannot imagine today,” she has said. Meanwhile, people will outsource tasks such as driving, grocery shopping, and food preparation to others, both robotic and human. “The more repetitive jobs are going to succumb to mechanization, and the more interesting jobs will go to human beings who will be helped by robots.”
    Even assuming the future she envisions does come true, she also has to be right on the timing. Epic breakthroughs can be costly and slow to deploy in the real world. “This is something that plays out over a period of decades, not months or years,” says Erik Brynjolfsson, a Stanford professor specializing in technological change. For example, it took a generation after the invention of electric motors before they became incorporated in assembly lines. And with any technological change, “it’s a lot easier to identify the companies that are vulnerable than the companies that are going to come out ahead,” Brynjolfsson says. “The winners, a lot of them, are going to come out of left field.” Meanwhile, history is full of hot investors whose luck eventually ran out.

  261. The Great Pumpkin says:

    To make money on the “five-year time horizon” that she mentions at every opportunity, Wood must somehow glean what technologies, supply chains, regulations, competitive dynamics, and the broader economy will look like years into the future. But operating in the future has its advantages. Hope springs eternal. No matter what’s happening in the present—a global pandemic, for example—there’s always five years from now. Listening to her, it’s clear that technological change represents something more to Wood than an investment strategy. It’s an open question whether making money is even her primary goal. ARK, especially given its substantial startup costs, has not made her fabulously wealthy, certainly not at the scale of billionaire hedge fund managers who are far less famous.
    The dawning of a high-tech future is central to Wood’s life philosophy, closely connected to her religious and political views. In starting ARK, her goal was “encouraging the new creation, God’s new creation,” she said on a Christian podcast last year, by investing in “transformative technologies that were going to change the world.” The triumph of innovation also fits well with her free-market views. To a younger generation tempted by social!sm, she’s hoping to show that capitalism can still work its magic.
    As stocks dropped and Bitcoin suffered a 30% crash on the morning of May 19, its worst decline in seven years, Wood said it “pains me more than anything” to think clients might be panicking and selling at the wrong time. Even when her funds were doing well, she said at a recent Bloomberg Businessweek event, she had tried to “stay humble,” warning colleagues that a severe correction might be ahead. Now that it had arrived, “we’re looking at this and saying innovation is on sale,” she said. “I know it’s been hard for our clients in recent months. Keep the faith.” She still expected the stocks in her portfolios to more than triple in the next five years, she assured viewers. And Bitcoin, which almost fell to $30,000 that morning? She still believed her favorite cryptocurrency could someday hit $500,000.

  262. The Great Pumpkin says:

    Cathie fighting socia!ism with capitalism. You gotta love her.

    She knows what beats social!sm, pure capitalistic innovation. Nothing makes life better for everyone like innovation.

  263. leftwing says:

    Jcer, what’s a BA?

  264. The Great Pumpkin says:

    Terrible advice.

    “When will the real estate market cool off?
    Experts predict that the real estate market won’t slow down until late autumn, and even then home prices will remain high, according to Dr. Lawrence Yun, chief economist at the National Association of Realtors. By then, more new construction homes will be coming onto the market, evening out supply.
    “For those who are willing to wait, more choices will be available, but home prices and mortgage rates are likely to be higher,””

  265. Fabius Maximus says:

    Left there are a few drivers for that number. You may not see it in the IB behemoths, but the street as a whole will.

    First Revenues are up. The Bull has been running for a long time. Even through Covid, everyone has pivoted from brick to click without skipping a beat. A lot of roles that you would have thought were always desk bound, can be done remote.

    RIFs have been done. Reducing workforce while delivering revenue will drive the ratio down.

    Outsourcing. Again moving the work out to a third party, will for the most part keep costs down. It is usually cheaper to have someone else provide the service taht do it in house. As my boss keeps trying to tell me “We are not in the X business!” Overall it has kept me in a job for 25 years.

    Technology changes. It is not just technologies such as cloud, AI or ML. Ten years ago I was paying around $350/Gb per year for storage. That is now down to around a buck. Where I used to count every MB used, I now buy storage and memory in Terabytes. The physical machines these days now run virtual payloads. We are in an unbelievable Golden Era of commuting. Its a pity they rest of the industry and countries are in the toilet.

    I remember the first time I looked into Cross Continent fiber that runs the Internet backbone, this is the logical extension of that.

  266. JCer says:

    BA is Business Analyst, they tend to write the requirements/User Stories for systems.

    Bystander, I still cannot figure out why companies give those surveys, I’m fairly certain the results are forwarded to /dev/null. At this point I’ve given up, I have teams in India trying to solve relatively simple problems and it takes weeks, it should take hours but it takes weeks. The only thing worse than my dev team and the product they produce is the data your firm sends to us. The other issue you have in India is a very poor reputation as an employer, after the crash your firm unloaded the India operations to Cognizant which I think didn’t sit well with the employees over there. You aren’t GS and don’t have the cachet or reputation in India and I think if you are directly hiring in India don’t really understand the labor market and the typical business process over there which makes it a lot more difficult to hire. The sad thing is you are looking for these folks in India and you are shedding them in CT, we keep picking up the people you are eliminating, then again we take all the cast offs from the big banks.

  267. JCer says:

    Fab it’s not just that it’s also consolidation in the industry, so fewer platforms and yes buy instead of build or just make do with older systems.

    Yes operational costs are way down, when I started in the industry I remember developing apps on a new IBM P690 with 32 CPUs and 256GB of RAM, this system cost 2 million dollars at the time plus the annual extortion for IBM support which was hundreds of thousands of dollars every year, than add in the cost of the EMC fibrechannel SAN storage, add Oracle and multiply it times 2 for the hot replica. Today most banks have moved to commodity hardware running linux and have even moved to open source databases and have ditched ludicrous application servers like WebLogic/Websphere and if you moved the the cloud I can buy way more capability for less than the IBM annual extortion fees. If you look at the budgeting annual infra cost was millions considering depreciating the machines, software support/licenses today it’s probably less than 50k. I remember too IBM would not support these systems for more than 6-7 years so you’d literally need to upgrade the production stack every 4-5 years to the tune of 5-7 million dollars and this was for a relatively insignificant app, critical tier 1 apps had hardware budgets that would make you choke. Some firms still waste money on proprietary cr@p like most of what CA sells but I think most have raided their infrastructure budgets for savings.

  268. No One says:

    Those Weber side burners only put out 12,000 BTU. Indoor stovetops typically max out at 18,000. Specialized burners can output as much as 100,000 to 200,000. Which leads to much better stir-fry potential. But too much for most indoor vents to handle. I should probably just replace the Spirit.

  269. grim says:

    Some firms still waste money on proprietary cr@p like most of what CA sells but I think most have raided their infrastructure budgets for savings.

    My IBM mainframe buddy in Delaware is still incredibly busy, we’re talking greenscreen cics and cobol here.

  270. grim says:

    If you want to look at investments over the next 5-10 years, you are far better off listening to people like Amy Webb instead of Cathie Wood. 1000x better unfiltered insight.

    Amy and FTI have been knocking it out of the park in terms of identifying meaningful trends – however – you still need to connect the dots to the companies the can effectively capitalize on them.

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