From CNN:

The ‘Great Reshuffling’ played a big part in pushing home prices higher 

The pandemic changed the way people lived and, for many, where they lived. Working from home was a significant driver of this “Great Reshuffling” and accounted for more than half of the steep increases in home prices seen during the pandemic, new research has found.

Remote work allowed some people to move to places farther away from their office and prompted others to buy larger homes to accommodate their new lifestyles. The demand for more house and the ability to move to warmer climates played a sizable role in pushing home prices higher, according to a new National Bureau of Economic Research working paper by researchers from the Federal Reserve Bank of San Francisco and the University of California, San Diego.

Home prices grew by 23.8% during the pandemic, according to the researchers’ population-weighted analysis of Zillow’s home price index between December 2019 and November 2021. And the study found that remote work accounted for 15.1% of that growth.

The findings suggest there was more than just speculation behind the turbo-charged growth in home prices during the pandemic, said Johannes Wieland, an associate professor of economics at the University of California, San Diego, and co-author of the study. He added that the evolution of remote work is likely to have a large impact on the future path of home prices and inflation.

“We were pretty shocked remote work had this impact, once we saw the estimates,” Wieland said. “We thought about how people moving to different locations would be important. And it is. But it is the people who are remaining in a metro area — the people who need more space at home if they work at home — that is really pushing up prices. That is the majority of the story.”

This entry was posted in Demographics, Economics, Employment, National Real Estate. Bookmark the permalink.

171 Responses to Blame COVID

  1. dentss dunnigan says:


  2. leftwing says:

    dentss, I think you exist these days to claim the first post banner lol.

    Torque – whichever regular poster you are – thanks for the Peterson share. I’ll need to listen again…it connected, but around 32:00 or so onward I not unironically became very irate listening and applying his standard to current leaders…maybe I’ll just pick up the book.

    Lib, liquidated a lot last week…nothing to read there except each position had gains pretty well through targets…and as the positions usually have some option component June expiries are not that far off so I was being judicious…still have two ‘knife edge’ positions, DIS and VIX, that can cut either way but exposure is minimal and potential returns up there so I’ll let them run. I will look to short oil soon…defined risk trade for sure and obviously won’t time it exactly, but basically a position for the eventual cessation of shooting in Ukraine. I’m 90% cash in my trading account representing position management and not market view so if you have any bones to toss….my PYPL, FB, JBLU, PARA, Z all gone….tried to re-enter Z last week will stay on my radar as well with some of the housing ancillary names I’ve mentioned to you in the past. I have my lines drawn on the others. Not planning on but would love a hard flush.

    3b, what’s our count brother? Getting up there…

    Going to be another scorcher today boys. Stay cool.

  3. Hold my beer says:

    The blackface wearing woke darling of the left is flexing his dictatorship goals again.

    But what can you expect from our ally who has had military exercises with China?

  4. 3b says:

    Left: Our count today is 58 days. Definitely getting up there. Easier than I thought, and gets easier as the days go by. It’s made the blog more enjoyable for everyone else as well. So, good all around.

  5. 3b says:

    Hamptons property owners slashing their rental rates by 30 percent this summer rental season, pulling back on the top end.

  6. grim says:

    Daaahling, haven’t you heard, we summer in San Tropez now.

  7. crushednjmillenial says:

    The article at the top . . .

    I remain mystified that greater geographic flexibility has caused HIGHER housing prices.

    It should cause lower prices, in my opinion, logically. Every person sliding outwards from a Manhattan 600 sq. ft. 2-bedroom apartment to a Emerson 1,800 sq. ft. 3-bedroom house leaves behind a Manhattan vacancy that someone fills. And, since there is greater choice in where remote workers go, they can filter towards markets with low housing prices (INDEED, EVEN markrets wherein HOUSING CAN BE PURCHASED FOR LESS THAN REPLACEMENT VALUE). My point is that there is actually a lot of housing out there in the US, and the pre-covid problem was choose (a) cheap housing-but-no-jobs or (b) expensive housing-but-with-jobs.

    Thus, I still believe, from my armchair economist chair, that the recent price run-up was driving moreso by these three supply-side variables: (1) “for sale” inventory was reduced by people not wanting buyers in their house, for health reasons during covid; (2) supply chain snarled new housing construction and stalled flips; (3) eviction moratorium and foreclosure ejection moratorium reduced that part of the housing supply becoming available. Then, this met higher demand [(1) ppl who kept the manhattan condo leaviing it vacant but also bought a house in FL; (2) higher savings rate due to you cannot spend on vacations and student loan moratorium] and created a mania.

    I truly don’t believe that higher housing prices follow from greater geographic dispersion alone. For example, if it was just a hot business trend to increase WFH, then the effect on housing prices should have been lower. And, note, when I speak of housing prices I am talking either/both purchase and rent, because they are connected.

  8. crushednjmillenial says:

    ^to put some real-world numbers on the above,

    On supply chain snarls – if you are seeking window fabrication for a new construction house, you may still be waiting MONTHS for certain types of windows rather than customary pre-covid weeks

    On eviction moratoriums – low-income NJ tenants are forever protected from eviction for unpaid rent owed through December 31, 2021. If such a tenant in Hudson County failed to pay rent on Jan. 1, 2022, and assume a landlord filed their eviction action on Jan. 15, 2022, that case is not going to trial until August (no guarantee of what will happen when August comes, though, maybe some more delays?). So, the eviction and foreclosure moratoriums are still working their way through the system.

  9. 3b says:

    I would have thought those Hamptons rentals would have been booked months ago.

  10. crushednjmillenial says:

    2008, helicopter money and inflation . . .

    As of 2022, I believe we learned two things about the government interventions in 2008 . . .

    (1) As it turned out, any worrying about $800B in 2008 here or $1T there, around that time causing massive inflation was wrong. It turns out that the US economy and global economy could have handled way more governmetn spending at that time without triggering inflation. 2008 national debt = $10T; 2022 national debt = $30T. Inflation just started slapping in the last year or so. I was wrong – I had long conversations at the time about the possibility that serious inflation might follow from the GFC government intervention.

    (2) Helicopter money- the post-covid government interventions seems to suggest that helicopter money does create some good economic growth. I preferred helicopter money in 2008 rather than government purchase of distressed assets. Basically, I would have rather that the holders of MBS and similar assets took a -90% bath and some financial companies went bankrupt while the economy was being pumped from main street denizens having some govt money in their pockets for spending on what they find utility in. Lots of commentary disparaging helicopter money in 2008, but it seems to have worked as intended in 2020. (And, we could have done helicopter money without also creating a huge percentage of all USD in the last 24 months, simultaneously).

  11. Fast Eddie says:

    Brent crude @ $123.83; gas futures place a gallon @ $4.75 in 10 days. The national average is $4.63 per gallon, a new record. O’Biden quadrupling down and blaming Putin on it all. O’Biden’s plan: “Asking large corporations and the wealthiest Americans to pay their fair share.”

    I wonder when it’ll hit $5 per gallon? But hey, at least we don’t have Trump anymore.

  12. Grim says:

    Sorry but oil doesn’t at all feel demand driven, certainly not staring down a global recession.

    You can break this think with the right jawboning.

  13. Phoenix says:

    It’s long. All worth watching. But he calls it out right here:

  14. Nomad says:


    Lumber off 50%. I suspect by late Sept, building materials market will look different as will gas / diesel.

  15. No One says:

    Greens have been jawboning for less fossil fuel for the last 20 years. And for carbon taxes to make up for unacceptably low costs of fossil fuel. Why aren’t they celebrating and taking credit now that their efforts are finally taking the world in their desired direction of higher-priced, scarcer volumes of fossil fuels? Maybe they can someday achieve their dream of shrinking the human population. As Pulitzer Prize winning NYTimes Stalin apologist journalist said, “you can’t make an omelet without breaking eggs”. So get used to energy poverty, peasants.

  16. 3b says:

    No one: Germany has been trying to get windmill projects going for energy purposes, and environmental groups over there are fighting those efforts as well, adding years of delay. It seems some of these groups are against everything, but offer no solutions or alternatives.

  17. Libturd says:


    Heard from a friend I trust that oil prices are partially (and it’s a large part) out if whack, from energy futures being traded with little regulation (a la Enron). I know nothing more than this and barely understand it. But things do seem out of whack.

  18. Fast Eddie says:

    Germany has been trying to get windmill projects going for energy purposes…

    Let’s assume the world no longer has any fossil fuels. Which source of energy will we be using to create more solar panels, windmills, etc.? That includes the mining of materials, manufacturing and construction.

  19. Phoenix says:

    If you start to run low on energy, or even if you do, create efficiency.

    If you are efficient, you use less resources. In fact, you should always strive for efficiency vs generation and waste of energy.

    Do you walk to the mailbox 10 times with each piece of mail, or do you take it all with you at once?

  20. Phoenix says:

    If you start to run low on energy-create efficiency.

    That’s better.
    Look at all those words I just wasted.

  21. No One says:

    I think oil futures are pretty liquid, and there are a good number of both producers and consumers of oil that are active on it. But there are still plenty of financial speculators on it who aren’t really going to provide or consume the oil. Who knows, we could be in the inverse of the early 2020 plunge where futures went negative because there were a bunch of speculators and consumers who were not prepared to take delivery of oil, and had to pay someone to store it for them. I don’t know if momentum players are going in on an asset that’s up, or if end buyers are just searching for supply, or both. Oil futures tend to overreact both directions from the long term sustainable price. Unless this is the 1970s all over again. I’m pretty sure that the current oil price is well above the top of the global production cost curve.

  22. Libturd says:

    No One,

    It’s impossible to really know, of course. Though I do remember them storing crude in tankers until demand picked up.

    I’m thinking about digging a hole in my backyard to see what I find.

  23. Libturd says:

    All I see today is idiot money moving back into the FAANGS. I’m not surprised. Kramer said the bear was over on Friday. There are an awful lot of Pumpkin types who still listen to him, despite his pretty weak track record.

  24. crushednjmillenial says:

    Germans cut down on nuclear power after Fukushima, so they made Europe more dependent on Russian fossil fuels. Plan was to make it up with wind and solar, now some factions within German society oppose wind turbines. Well, great.

    I haven’t heard of any green-led jurisdictions raising gas taxes into the face of this price hike. Seems that they should support the extra taxation, especially right now – it seems like even higher prices would compel more regular people to purchase more fuel-efficient vehicles or otherwise design their lives to require less gasoline (by, for example, living within walking distance of their jobs). If you were ever going to get people into a mindset of “gasoline is expensive”, now is that time.

  25. Juice Box says:

    All that Russian oil banned from the West is now going to Asia with a $30 a barrel discount. You can thank our politicians for current and future price increases as it will continue to head north perhaps as high as $185 a barrel. The idea that we already have a 20% gap in production requiring a trillion dollar cap ex to get more drilling going means we are going to have high oil prices indefinitely.

    Nothing wrong with green, it just is not there yet. 95 quadrillion British thermal units (Btu) of energy consumed in the USA annually. Petroleum is 35% of that with transportation alone being 25%.

    You cannot replace 24 quadrillion BTUs for cars and trucks with solar and wind power generated electricity to charge cars and truck batteries when we cannot even build our own panels and wind farms cheaply. Right now most panels come from Asia and well even the wind farm being built off the coast of NJ is being run by the Dutch.

    We are screwed if this keeps up it won’t be a recession, it will be straight to depression and don’t forget about the emerging world they are gonna starve.

  26. D-FENS says:

    New (Generation IV) nuclear power plants might be an answer but I don’t see anyone trying to build one in the US. The big difference between them and the previous styles is that they are cooled with liquid salts instead of water. The liquid salts have a far higher boiling point so if the cooling pumps crap out like they did after the Fukishima disaster…you don’t get a meltdown.

    Cheap plentiful energy…that’s what would drive inflation down.

  27. Fastest Eddie says:

    Can anyone here explain the Green product development lifecycle?

  28. Juice Box says:

    Yes they are trying to build them Oklo Power attempt to get a nuclear license this year and was turned down in January.

    Nuclear is the biggest case of environmental disaster waiting to happen too because kick the can politicians. Our existing 93 Nuclear Reactors add 2,000 tons of waste every year to the existing 88,000 tons of spent nuclear fuel, as well as substantial volumes of intermediate and low-level radioactive waste all stored onsite at existing nuke plants now. All because the Democrats don’t like Nuclear either and Obama shut down the Yucca mountain Waste Repository as one of his first acts as President.

    Nuclear is screwed now, no plans for waste and well we may never build another plant, and the ones that remain are slowly closing down a few every year now.

    Just remember we also have lost any edge we had with solar photovoltaic cells over a decade ago. The USA used to produce about 13 percent of global supply of solar, it’s down now less than 1 percent. Our leading solar producer First Solar is only opened ast year ONE plant in Ohio. Just one…most of the anticipated production is sold out already so back to importing panels made mostly in China.

  29. Libturd says:

    I can Gary.

    The Green product development lifecycle goes like this.

    Typically, a well off small to medium sized business owner donates between $250 and $10,000 to a progressive Democrat running for a position on the state level. In NJ, since the Democrat always wins, you are usually given a grant from some relatively unknown committee made up of other campaign contributors, campaign volunteers or relatives of said politician. These grants range anywhere from about $50,000 to about a million dollars. You form an LLC with “green” in the name, issue yourself a salary of $300K to $400K, hire some friends and spend the rest of the money on your marketing campaign. A year later, nothing has been developed, but you repeat the process until your candidate is no longer in office. Occasionally, an unintended consequence reveals a product worth selling. Like fancy, fresh arugula for the rich.

  30. Juice Box says:

    Fiat 500 74 MPG
    Citroen C1 74 MPG
    Toyota Aygo 74 MPG
    Peugeot 108 74 MPG
    Skoda Citigo 71 MPG
    Suzuki Baleno 71 MPG

    None sold in the USA, the Fiat 500 you might see on the road is a 2019 model the last year they were sold here.

  31. Fast Eddie says:


    Silly me. And here I am thinking in terms of project plan -> resources -> QA -> release dates, etc. The chaotic mess that is this current administration has me mired in delirium.

  32. Hold my beer says:

    Anyone know anything about tankless hot water heaters? Looking to replace our two tank hot water heaters in the fall. Any brand recommendations or brands to avoid?

    It looks like the condensation ones are more expensive, more efficient but can connect to modern pvc exhaust. Non condensation ones need metal vents, are cheaper to buy, and not as efficient.

  33. 3b says:

    Any one north Jersey, have an out door, front step railing company they have used?

  34. Fabius Maximus says:

    As expected Sussmann acquitted. Durham is nothing more than a PR exercise.

    Juice Box says:
    October 1, 2021 at 9:10 am
    So Fab do you still think Sussmann’s indictment won’t lead to bigger fish? Perhaps even the biggest fish of all.. Fillet of Hillary fish..

  35. Juice Box says:

    We already got the bigger fish. Robby Mook fessed up to the Russian lie in court and fingered Hillary. That would have never happened if he wasn’t under oath.

  36. JCer says:

    Fab, no it’s actually yet another instance of the left corrupting the courts. A DC court, DC jury, and an Obama appointed judge, just dirty. I don’t care what your political beliefs are what was done in 2016 by the Clinton campaign was criminal, all of these people violated the law. Same as it ever was, when is Hunter going to jail? And don’t tell me the guy hasn’t broken like a 100 laws and that if we broke any one of them as a normal civilian they’d throw us in the klink and throw away the key.

  37. Fabius Maximus says:

    What exactly do you think did Mook Fessed up to? Here’s your problem. The Alfa Bank connection was real, we just don’t know what went over the line. Or the DOJ knows what went over it and haven’t released it yet.

  38. leftwing says:

    “It seems some of these groups are against everything, but offer no solutions or alternatives.”

    Not a flaw. A feature.

    Lib, re: oil, tried to pull up a futures curve on yahoo finance for a link, can’t figure it out quickly enough…anyway, you can, the future is ticker CL followed by the month (N=July, Q=Aug, U=Sep, Z=Dec) followed by the year, ie, CLN22 is the July fute. Curve is in backwardation with those four months above pricing out at 115/112/109/102. I see lines between 60-65 and 85 or so…with the Julys at 115 that’s 30 points to the top of that range or 25%.

    At a price less than 15% down I can set a defined risk trade that if she moves 20% down I net 5x+….not my usual trade for several reasons but it is a binary situation and a manageable stop loss for an extraordinary return on the cessation of the killing which will occur, eventually…

  39. Hughesrep says:

    Hold My Beer

    In full disclosure the company I work for represents one of the major manufacturer’s. I don’t have the line in NJ though, I’ve had to pretend to pay attention to some presentations.

    I’d go condensing. Efficiency will pay for itself eventually, the tankless heaters should last 20+ years if properly maintained, minus the occasional sensor or something electrical that goes sideways.

    The major manufacturers are all pretty similar, Navien, Rinnai, Bosch, Takagi, a few other smaller players. They also make them for the name brand tank type companies, AO Smith, Rheem, Bradford White, etc.

    There are only a couple of manufacturers that make the actual heat exchangers, and then it’s just components that are added on. They’ve worked the kinks out of them over the past 10-15 years in the US, much longer in Europe and Asia. Most problems are installation issues. Get a good plumber who is familiar with them. Some guys specialize in them.

    I have a 199K BTU condensing unit, works very well for my family of four, 2.5 baths. Around here, 199K will get you 4.5 or so gallons of hot water per minute, incoming ground water temp of about 50*. Enough to run a couple of showers at a time. They work off of flow and demand, so it’s not an unlimited source of hot water all at once, but it is continuous.

    Make sure the plumber puts isolation valves on it, and flush the heat exchanger annually. It involves a small pump, a couple of hoses, a five gallon bucket and a gallon of vinegar. Lots of tutorials online, very simple to set up and do. Takes maybe 45 minutes, but it really does need to be done annually and typically can be done yourself.

  40. Fabius Maximus says:

    Always there with the “the Left”, “the laptop”, blah blah blah. I assume that when Hunters charges are dismissed, you’ll post the same garbage. I always find it funny, that you’ll jump on a laptop story whose only authenticity is the word of Rudy Colludy.

    You want to discuss Judiciary, why not start with a real issue. Who bought themselves a SCJ? Who Paid Kavs mortgage, Country Club Fees and Credit Cards. What to do with all of Trumps appointees, who the ABA labeled as unqualified? What was Ginis role in J6? What to do with the plan for GOP Govs who will refuse to certify a Dem winner in 2024?

    Constitutional Crisis straight ahead, but Hey, her emails.

  41. Fabius Maximus says:

    We get a TwoFer

    “It seems some of these groups are against everything, but offer no solutions or alternatives.”

    Not a flaw. A feature.

    “You get the person mental help and you make sure they do not have implements of harm(guns, bombs, etc). The intervene before the breaking point. It cannot happen in the US because it is clearly unconstitutional, which I know means nothing to the people on your side of the aisle but the law should be respected.”

    JCer it good you are acknowledging the need for Red Flag laws, but they need to be consistent across the country. And its not unconstitutional, even in Heller, Scalia acknowledged that.
    In fact, if you can repeal Roe, why not start will revoking Heller and send Gun rights back to the states and they can regulate the Militias. Or why don’t you explain the 21st amendment to me? Was that solution unconstitutional?

    Its not that we cant do anything, its that there are a lot of people out there that wont do anything about it. The GQP could pass GC tomorrow and it would have an impact. They just wont. Would it stop the next one, who knows, but you could go a long way to reducing the lethality. Maybe the next kid doesn’t have to a have a closed casket, because the hollow 556 reduced their face to putty and they need a DNA test to ID.
    Reduce the rate of fire and give the victims a chance. The kid bought 58 magazines and 1600 rounds, that should raise a flag somewhere.

    But hey, do nothing, you have no solutions, but you’ll get by with thoughts and prayers.

  42. Fabius Maximus says:


    While I would defer to your expertise, what about Indirect vs Tankless? For me tankless only makes sense if it is only in use occasionally such as a second home. For your primary where you have a steady daily demand, having that 40 gallons on tap pretty much means you never run out. When the boiler kicks in to replenish, there is a lot of latent heat in the tank so you are not starting cold. A times my boiler will kick on for a few seconds to replenish the tank.

  43. The Great Pumpkin says:

    With the average cost of a beach house ranging from $300,000 to $885,000 or more, many feel as though moving to an idyllic seaside town is a pipedream. But according to a new survey, there are locations where your dream could become reality. recently studied the data of more than 1,300 coastal communities and listed the most affordable ones in America, with the top spot belonging to Atlantic City.

  44. Hughesrep says:

    Indirects are different. I have a line of those as well.

    Indirects are the choice if you already have a boiler. The recovery rate is phenomenal and they have storage, so kind of the best of both worlds. The heat transfer mechanism is also incredibly efficient.

    Beer mentioned he was replacing water heaters. I assumed traditional tank types.

    Gas tankless heaters still makes sense as a whole house everyday option. Unless you have to dump 40-50 gallons of hot water in five minutes (jetted tub maybe, wall of shower sprays?), tankless heaters will meet the demand. Most tub shower faucets are limited to 2.5 GPM, lav and kitchen faucets .5-1.0, modern dishwasher, a few gallons total, etc. How many are on at once? Add it up. Also, no one uses 100% 120* hot water in the shower, it would scald. It probably runs at 1.7 GPM of actual hot water.

    4.5 gallons per minute is the number. If you need more than that for some reason you need a tank. But once that tank is empty, you have to wait for it to warm up. A tankless will give you 4.5 GPM endlessly.

    Wife and I, two teenagers, has not been an issue for the 6 years I’ve had it.

  45. The Great Pumpkin says:

    Could be a HR investment. Eventually the poor are going to get pushed out by the rich. Inevitable, imho.

  46. Ex says:

    ^^capt. obvious here.

  47. Ex says:

    Leaky trans in das Outback being repaired under warranty.
    Not exactly a ringing endorsement for the trans but i do drive the living
    shit out of it. So there’s that. Warranty extension FTW!

  48. joyce says:

    Did you ask if an amendment to the constitution was unconstitutional?

    Fabius Maximus says:
    May 31, 2022 at 6:40 pm

  49. leftwing says:

    Yeah, fabs, also that quote of me in your 6:40p is regarding Greens and renewables but hey your strength never was reading comprehension. Doesn’t matter, no reason not to own the above logic re: firearms I guess…

    Good to see you back. How’s the view orbiting Pluto?

    “58 days Pumpkin-free”

  50. The Great Pumpkin says:

    58 days free of 3b’s mental gymnastics.

    58 days free of lefty’s elitist put downs.

  51. The Great Pumpkin says:

    Rock n roll baby!!


  52. The Great Pumpkin says:

    It is VERY rare for a government official at any level to admit that they were wrong

    .@SecYellen on inflation being transitory: “I was wrong then about the path that inflation would take. As I mentioned, there have been unanticipated and large shocks to the economy […] that I, at the time, didn’t fully understand.”

  53. The Great Pumpkin says:

    If you hate on yellen, you have issues. It takes a lot for someone to admit they are wrong at her level. It happened to me too, yellen. I truly thought it was transitory, till i realized business leaders pulled back production and crashed the global trade market. Talk about losers. Created massive inflation in the face of deflationary headwinds.

  54. The Great Pumpkin says:

    Why is oil high? Human nature. Opec has it on lock. No one wants to cheat because they saw hell with below zero future contracts. You think survivors of that aren’t going to come back hard? Wake the f up!! Lol

    Price is manipulated and always has been. Republicans that back us relying on this controlled source of energy(oil) are pure losers. Yes, let’s keep relying on what they can control.

  55. The Great Pumpkin says:

    Total losers. Quickest economy to renewable energy will get a huge head start to the new economy.

  56. The Great Pumpkin says:

    So I don’t care about fundamentals comparisons unless they show an outcome that doesn’t realize on the middle east or Russia.

  57. The Great Pumpkin says:

    *That doesn’t rely on the middle east to run its’ economy.

  58. Fabius Maximus says:

    “Did you ask if an amendment to the constitution was unconstitutional?”

    Do you understand Rhetoric?

  59. Fabius Maximus says:


    “Doesn’t matter, no reason not to own the above logic re: firearms I guess…”

    Good Job, now lets start hearing some solutions from you. I think we have covered “Thoughts and Prayers” so lets hear your ideas on how we stop having to bury 19 kids?

  60. Fast Eddie says:

    Do you understand Rhetoric?

    Rhetoric: The cornerstone of the democrat party.

  61. leftwing says:

    “Good Job, now lets start hearing some solutions from you. I think we have covered “Thoughts and Prayers” so lets hear your ideas on how we stop having to bury 19 kids?”

    Already done.

    And, just to be clear, I’ve never used the phrase ‘thoughts and prayers’.

    I’ll spare everyone the reposting but it is linked below for you.

    Trigger warning for you coming out of your liberal fugue state…there is no wailing, no amorphous ‘we need to something’ platitudes, no undefined phraseology for political gain…

    Specifically regarding your view my post is unsurprisingly diametrically opposed…Demonstrating ‘gun control’ works is a proof on those advocating it and ‘it’s common sense’ is not a substitute, it challenges on a couple levels those making an argument for gun control on lethality, and it posits given that the failure to enforce existing laws and procedures specifically enabled many of these shootings politicians have no right and actually need to be specifically prohibited from enacting further laws until they can demonstrate the effectiveness and enforcement of current ones.

    Feel free to look back and browse how rationale adults seeking actual solutions approach serious issues. I know it will be initially disorienting coming from your far left echo chamber…

    “leftwing says:
    May 28, 2022 at 3:34 pm
    Glad we’ve started having rational discussions about mass shootings, for the most part, supplanting the shrill ‘just do something!’

    As more than a couple posters have noted getting to the underlying issues is critical. Can’t discern a solution to a problem unless you know what you are trying to solve….”

  62. BRT says:

    If you hate on yellen, you have issues. It takes a lot for someone to admit they are wrong at her level.

    Lol, does it. The BLS has lied about inflation and consistently underreported it. But when it’s running at 10%, it’s kinda hard to keep the lie going. That’s why it took her a full year. What’s pathetic is she tried to convince us it wouldn’t get bad when it obviously would.

  63. Phoenix says:

    The King has spoken:

    ‘Remote work is no longer acceptble’: Elon Musk tells Tesla staff they face being fired unless they do 40 hours in the office before working from home

  64. crushednjmillenial says:

    Student loan forgiveness and UBI . . .

    Regarding student loan forgiveness, it has been interesting to see how pitched the anti-forgiveness arguments have been in the msm. I feel that it has been a disproportionate backlash against spending this $300B compared to the $5T spent on Covid-related spending. (Not saying that student loan forgiveness is a good policy).

    The “anti” argument has pointed out that 12% of the population has student debt, so why should the other 88% pay for their benefit. And, more granular, why should (a) people who scrimped and saved to pay off their own debt; (b) people who didn’t go to college due to cost concerns; or (c) people who work backbreaking physical jobs, etc. pay for someone’s, frankly, useless liberal arts degree. In addition, successful people are grumbling because if you make $150k/annual as a single person, you aren’t getting the $10k forgiveness.

    UBI seems like a better way to do this kind of thing. Everyone gets the same amount – whether you are the richest person in the country or the poorest. Then, each person can spend the money on whatever brings them the best value (utility per dollar). For example, President Biden’s proposed student debt forgivness costs $300B – if we took that amount and simply divided it up for every person in the US, every US Citizen would get something like $1,000 rather than 10% of the people getting $10k.

  65. The Great Pumpkin says:


    Take another L….yea, the corporate guy knows it all, huh?

    The know nothing teacher strikes again on his bold call going against everyone and their mother. Keep laughing at me and putting me down. Working out well.

    59 days free of 3b’s utter nonsense.

    Phoenix says:
    June 1, 2022 at 8:25 am
    The King has spoken:

    ‘Remote work is no longer acceptble’: Elon Musk tells Tesla staff they face being fired unless they do 40 hours in the office before working from home

  66. The Great Pumpkin says:

    She owns it, and I respect that. She’s not claiming to be perfect, but is acknowledging that she is indeed human….she makes mistakes.

    BRT says:
    June 1, 2022 at 8:10 am
    If you hate on yellen, you have issues. It takes a lot for someone to admit they are wrong at her level.

    Lol, does it. The BLS has lied about inflation and consistently underreported it. But when it’s running at 10%, it’s kinda hard to keep the lie going. That’s why it took her a full year. What’s pathetic is she tried to convince us it wouldn’t get bad when it obviously would.

  67. The Great Pumpkin says:

    Oh, what do you know, Musk agrees with me. 3b, hard to argue with a genius who is the most successful business entrepreneur on the planet.

    “Lazy dogs
    Musk himself seemed to telegraph his dim view of WFH last month, when he responded to news that Apple delayed its return to work plan by tweeting a meme that suggested that employees who work from home were in fact just lazy dogs.”

  68. Phoenix says:

    An Ahole with money is still an Ahole.

    Why do people elevate these types on a pedestal?

    Pumpy does he make you moist?

  69. 3b says:

    Phoenix: The king indeed. All the more reason remote work is here to stay and is continuing to grow. Tons of commercial office space available in NYC , and all over north Jersey. My wife’s company s lease is up end of this year, and the owners are throwing all sorts of incentives to get them to stay. Additionally, they have been looking at other space and again all sorts of incentives, including remodel to suit, and new office furniture. Her company was adamantly against WFH, only to change their minds and will now be 2 days a week WFH after the Labor Day holiday. We are 27 months into this, and it’s not going away, in spite of what King Elon says.

    59 days comment free. I highly recommend it, so beneficial in so many ways. I am proof that it can be done.

  70. Fast Eddie says:

    I heard a comedian on XM this morning talking about offensive bar drinks depending on locale:

    India: The Mudslide

    Louisiana: The Katrina – 13 ounces of alcohol in a 12 ounce glass… comes with an upside down umbrella.

    The Barack Obama: A guy orders the most expensive drink on the menu and the guy next to him pays for it.

  71. The Great Pumpkin says:


    My god, are you seriously going to double down on WFH still? Are you seriously insane? Makes sense though, you have been waiting for a real estate crash since 2001.

  72. Juice Box says:

    re: Remote work

    Elon’s Chinese workers sleep on the factory floor between shifts, this was due to the covid lockdown there, but could become a benefit. Less travel from the factory dormitory to the factory floor….

  73. 3b says:

    Yelled admitting she was wrong is the least she can do, not that it matters at this point. There were many out there who warned inflation was not transitory, and we were heading for disaster. Yellen apologizing is like closing the barn door after the horses got out. It was something, but in the end meaningless, the damage is done.

  74. Juice Box says:

    Yellen? She is against the debt ceiling, wants congress to pass a law to abolish it. Hey look congress no budget constraints!!! She also wants a carbon tax, as if we can replace Quadrillions of BTUs generated by natural gas and oil overnight. She did raise rates from ZIRP to 1.5% during her tenure as Fed Chair, but still way below historical averages. The inflation we see now OOPS it’s permanent just like they wanted all along. Tighten your belts is the only thing you can do if you are poor….so suck it up buttercup…

  75. The Great Pumpkin says:

    Gee whiz, why is the most successful business owner in the world against WFH? Gee, I wonder why.

    “Asked whether the leaked email was in fact authentic, Musk confirmed its veracity and made it crystal clear he had zero tolerance for those demanding the right to retain privileges long viewed as a necessity during the pandemic.

    “They should pretend to work somewhere else,” he replied dismissively.”

    I would love for one of these pro WFH employees to put their money where their mouth is and start a remote based company (no office at all). DO IT. I dare ya.

  76. crushednjmillenial says:

    Section 8 and UBI . . .

    I support cutting funding to almost all social programs and re-directing those funds into UBI. The first program that should be cut is Section 8. It’d be better if they didn’t tax and spend it, but they aren’t going to change that.

    Section 8 spends something like $20B to help house approximately 3-4M people in the US. So, we are giving 1% of the population about $6,000 per person per year. It would be better if we used those funds to just give every citizen $60 per year, to spend how they please. US federal discretionary spending is $1.6T – if you trim that by $1T and UBI’d it, that would be $3,300 per person per year in citizens pockets rather than wasted on government programs lining the pockets of shady poverty macks, corrupt, nepostic or other insiders.

    As a housing industry participant, I can tell you that Section 8 is most pernicious. The people receiving the benefit that I have interacted with do not appreciate how generous the government is being to them. Before an Obama administration change, Section 8 paid low rent, so the only place a voucher holder could find an apartment would be the most-rundown places (bascially, the housing provider’s business model was to design toward section 8 which meant you only fix the bare minimum to pass an inspection). Now, since Obama, Section 8 pays a little too much in some geographies – thus Section 8 voucherholders are out-competing people that are paying rent from their own pocket, which likely contributes to driving up rents (and, it is surprising that economists and media pundits are not pointing to this as part of why inflation is rising). Section 8 is arbitrary – you have two apartments which are identical in the same building – one tenant has Section 8 so the government pays most of the rent, the other has a similar-socioeconomic status person toiling and struggling hard to pay their own rent.

    To go from the other direction, for $20B per year, it’s probably just about possible to re-engineer the US housing system to make it much more affordable, environmental and responsive to people’s needs. But, nope, we just muddle along paying the rent for 1% of the population.

  77. The Great Pumpkin says:

    They can’t yell and scream that he is a dinosaur and stuck in the past. They can’t cry that he is an out of touch boomer. Go ahead, tell the world how you know more about running a business than elon musk.

    The Great Pumpkin says:
    June 1, 2022 at 9:01 am
    Gee whiz, why is the most successful business owner in the world against WFH? Gee, I wonder why.

  78. The Great Pumpkin says:

    Picking winners and losers…and the winners don’t even appreciate it. Just like affordable housing…

    “Section 8 is arbitrary – you have two apartments which are identical in the same building – one tenant has Section 8 so the government pays most of the rent, the other has a similar-socioeconomic status person toiling and struggling hard to pay their own rent.”

  79. 3b says:

    Juices: Inflation problem has been building for years and under Yellen as well, as you noted, her increases were minimal, and accomplished nothing. Today we have the Fed who has increased by a total of .75, and we have people screaming for a pause, and then a reverse, and demanding the Fed put. The thought of a 3 FFR is terrifying. Seriously, this robust dynamic economy/ market can’t withstand a 3 FFR? That says it all.

  80. Juice Box says:

    crushed – You want to save $60 in taxes to put millions out onto the streets?

    Lots of elderly people and disabled on those housing programs and vouchers. I don’t know what the percentage but it is probably in the millions of people. The rest are what unwed mothers with young children and no support (daddy in jail, or disappeared) and they themselves have no skills or jobs. Should we send them to the solyent green factory to “work” instead?

  81. 3b says:

    Crushed: Stud loan forgiven is simply unfair for all the reasons you noted. Perhaps, that is simplistic, but in my view it really is that simple. Enough of the crying, and the I did not know nonsense. If the government wanted to do something, drop the rates to 2 percent, or even zero, at least pay back what you borrowed. I read the other day, that the overwhelming majority of people whose loans were paused during the pandemic made zero payments during that time. Some perhaps could not for legitimate reasons, and I am sure many others just did not give a crap.

    As for your send everyone 1,000 bucks I could go along with that, at least everyone gets something, instead of a few getting a big chunk.

  82. Juice Box says:

    3b – She got her reward too by sticking to the beliefs of the Neoclassical model, and keeping rates low for too long really. She took in $7 million from Wall St in speaking fees in only two years after she resigned from Fed because Trump wanted Powell.

    What does this mean in the long run? Well we raised the debt ceiling until after this mid-term election so nobody running for office will even talk about it. But reality is recession means tax receipts for all government agencies will be down considerably. More bailouts will be coming, and well much more inflation with the money printing..That is the plan all along.

  83. Libturd says:

    How many people at a car manufacturer could actually work from home? The numbers have to be tiny. Once again Musk, the master of marketing, brilliantly fooling the fools. It’s no wonder he switched teams.

    Please, when Elon returns to the Left, don’t embrace him like Cleveland did for the return of LeBron.

  84. BidenIsTheGOAT says:

    It’s a two tiered justice system. One for the establishment and one for the peons.

    The Sussman trial was whether he lied to the fbi about the premise of his meeting. It has nothing to do with the validity of his “information.” The lie was proved conclusively. He billed the Clinton campaign for the meeting for gods sake.

    But it’s not called the swamp got nothing.

  85. BRT says:

    She owns it, and I respect that. She’s not claiming to be perfect, but is acknowledging that she is indeed human….she makes mistakes.

    This is akin to me misinterpreting a basic law of physics, going against it, and apologizing later. Unacceptable.

  86. BRT says:

    Musk’s move is probably designed to get all the twitter employees to quit so he doesn’t have to fire them.

  87. 3b says:

    Juice: 7 million in speaking fees in 2 years, wonderful pay day. Now she is back to apologize that she got it wrong.

  88. The Great Pumpkin says:

    Again, there would have been no out of control inflation had business owners not shut down production in their bet that demand would fall. This inflation is not the result of monetary policy by the FED, but the result of broken supply chains. The FED didn’t create an environment on the west coast port where hundreds of container ships were stuck off shore for weeks. Then greedy business owners who were not impacted by the supply chains started to make claims that they were….and had to raise prices. NONE OF THIS HAS TO DO WITH THE FED. None of it.

    BRT says:
    June 1, 2022 at 9:44 am
    She owns it, and I respect that. She’s not claiming to be perfect, but is acknowledging that she is indeed human….she makes mistakes.

    This is akin to me misinterpreting a basic law of physics, going against it, and apologizing later. Unacceptable.

  89. The Great Pumpkin says:

    Best software engineers in the game….yea, it’s just a car manufacturer.

    Libturd says:
    June 1, 2022 at 9:40 am
    How many people at a car manufacturer could actually work from home? The numbers have to be tiny. Once again Musk, the master of marketing, brilliantly fooling the fools. It’s no wonder he switched teams.

  90. leftwing says:

    If I understand correctly Musk’s directive was for execs….sorry fellas, but big boy pants time…if you are an exec at TSLA you are pulling down serious bucks. And, any business (or even business unit) takes on the personality of its founder/manager.

    Musk sleeps on the factory floor himself during production crunches…if this is the guy you decided to join and he’s writing you deep checks there is no debate. Company is in his personality, and neither the company nor the personality is yours. You no likey, GTFO. Many other places will pick you up, likely without a pay cut. Doesn’t matter if return to work is the ‘right’ or ‘wrong’ move. It’s simply not your call.

    crushed, et. al….how about instead of looking for newfangled ways to spend money we don’t have we actually decelerate spending instead? Novel idea, I know, but really shouldn’t be that revolutionary…/s

  91. Juice Box says:

    Tesla’s corporate headquarter in Palo Alto is being moved to Austin. That is thousands of corporate white collar California jobs out of their 100,000 worldwide employees.

    I gather they just don’t want to pay to relocate anyone to Austin… Maybe you can hop on his Jet for a ride, but I doubt it he spends so much time in the air “sleeping and fasting” he does not want the company on his commute.

  92. leftwing says:

    “Musk’s move is probably designed to get all the twitter employees to quit so he doesn’t have to fire them.”

    Equal parts brilliance and deviousness. Sir, I like the way your mind works.

  93. leftwing says:

    Lib, you get the feeling everyone is leaning to one of the boat?

    I’m certainly not going to act on it yet but with CNBC on in the background for at least two weeks now I have yet to hear one guest – even one – take the stance that these rallies are anything but bear market countertrend rallies….

    When this reverses, contrary to history, we may have the express elevator up….

  94. Juice Box says:

    re: “leaning to one of the boat..”

    Yellen sees data before we do…she gave us a nice big warning..June 14 PPI data comes out again….


    I just spoke to a large manufacturer of household products. They are raising prices again even against pushback from the retailers. PPI folks, they cannot hold off anymore. Profit margins from peak have a long way that they can decline for companies.

    Because nobody believes the BLS inflation numbers aren’t gamed I am using my Whole foods English muffin index. They are now $2.99, no shrinkflation either. Three price increases in six months that’s 20% in six months.

  95. The Great Pumpkin says:

    Like I always said years back….now they are on par with high cost blue states. Successful locations always lead to high cost/high tax. You can make it a political issue if you want, but the truth is, politics have nothing to do with it.

    Cheap location-unsuccessful economy.

    Expensive location- successful economy.

    When successful people move to an unsuccessful economy, they eventually make it expensive…the exact thing they were running from. The only way a place remains cheap is with low paying jobs and not a lot of people.

    “Housing, Child Care, Utilities—Nashville Faces Exceptional Inflation Hit From All Sides
    Influx of new residents causes housing prices to soar, pushing out some longtime inhabitants; ‘It’s just too expensive’”

  96. leftwing says:

    Might be worth a look at a pairs trade….short a GIS/KHC and long a private label consumer goods company. I know there is one large repackager, can’t think of the name.

    I noticed the trend even before recognition of inflation became rampant, stores are clearing the shelves of main names and substituting their own ‘branded’ products…

    People gotta eat, stores need margin….loser would seem to be the higher cost products.

  97. The Great Pumpkin says:


    Think about it. Businesses cut production in anticipation of less demand. Demand kept going. Now you had people chasing less products. Inflation was almost impossible to create, fed tried for a decade, but it took a cut in production to do it. Look at oil, they cut it big time in 2020.

    Source of inflation is the cutback of production. It’s just easier to blame the FED. FED was trying to create inflation for how long? How bout Japan? So I stand by my position that business cutbacks in production led to all this…aka broken supply chains.

  98. The Great Pumpkin says:

    “In many ways, the cost of living in Nashville is catching up to what it is elsewhere in the nation, said Dr. Achintya Ray, an economics professor at Tennessee State University. “The South, as an area, used to be a little cheaper than the rest of the country,” he said. “That difference is kind of shrinking right now.””

  99. Juice Box says:

    re: “People gotta eat, stores need margin….loser would seem to be the higher cost products.”

    This one stuck out like a sore thumb the other day while shopping. It will be hard to be brand loyal for the same product but nearly 1/3rd the cost of the house brand.

    Same cows same product really… but nearly 1/3rd the cost…

    kraft-heinz made the news last week on it.

    Philadelphia Cream cheese $3.99 8 oz Shoprite
    Bowl and Basket Cream Cheese $1.49 8 oz Shoprite

    To Lib’s point..switch to Walmart they are one of the few retailers that are keeping prices down. Same Philadelphia Cream cheese purchased at Walmart is $2.24 if you really want to be brand loyal.

  100. The Great Pumpkin says:

    Mental midgets blaming politics for the rise in property taxes….can’t help the stupid. I try, but people just don’t understand.

    “I live in Nashville, well Davidson County to be sure. Which means Nashville and Davidson County are the same political unit; we vote for the mayor, etc.
    Part of the problem is the leadership which includes John Cooper the mayor. Property tax went up 34% in the past year. No real justification outside a lame reason of a budget issues due to covid. Instead of looking to seriously cut fat out of the budget he slammed the homeowners. Now the article highlighted the problems with the price of housing. How many homeowners on a fixed income can continue to absorb the property tax increases until they must sell? There is a get out of tax-free card, however you can only have an income of $31K to qualify. How many homeowners have that?
    Just to let you know Nashville is run by the Dems. I rarely go into the city. And recently have been calling Nashville “Austinville” because like all Dem run cities (Austin, TX) the same pie in the sky politics unfolds.”

  101. No One says:

    Gotta switch from Philadelphia Cream Cheese to Camden Cream Cheese to save money. Some packages have bullet holes though.

  102. No One says:

    Talk about the pot calling the kettle black.
    “can’t help the stupid. I try, but people just don’t understand”

  103. Juice Box says:

    Processed foods charts…. Index value in blue the year-over-year change, in red and month-to-month change in green.

  104. Phoenix says:

    Freedom isn’t free. Pony up, bitchez.

    You can afford it. Biden said so.

    Boomer doesn’t care about the deficit- Boomer ain’t paying it back.

  105. Ex says:

    Boomer did their deals and looked out for #1.

  106. njtowhomer says:

    thanks for sharing the experience on the waterheaters. How about flushing the boiler and also waterheaters (with tanks)? Any advice on how frequent we should clean the sludge/residue from them?

  107. Juice Box says:

    re Tax increase of 34%. Seems like standard big city problems….they have to deal with the NFL. If Nashville wants to keep the Tennessee Titians football team they need to pay for the new stadium.

  108. Bystander says:

    Brand loyalty is for suckers..had a party with 20 plus people. Men all brought top shelf beer. I am stacked for summer, 2 cases. Could not fit another in my beer fridge. I think the beer totals more than the dogs and kabobs etc I made. No one pulling back. Took kids up to Great Wolf in MA for Monday 1 night. Room was $17p total for 4 of us with 50% off ridiculous prices. I have no context for indoor waterparks and never go really. It seemed crowded but not ridiculous, lots lining up for over-priced food. Bar had lots of familties. 20m wait to do raft rides mostly due to slow boarding process and checking little kids height etc. Kids had a blast. Certainly a complete cross-sectional slice of America – tattooed walruses, lots of interracial families, rich white folks in ML-450s. Spent afternoon in Boston on Monday. Absolutely sub-dued. Easy to park, not crowded in Back Fens area. Most took off to Cape cod I imagine. Guess just saying that not seeing pull-back economically yet.

  109. leftwing says:

    Dimon out there today changing his ‘storm clouds on horizon’ assessment to ‘in a hurricane’ and saying that they’ll be conservative with their balance sheet.

    Think I told the story of a friend in January who had $60k of credit card limit cut to $30k…solely as he approached 85% usage (lazy, didn’t pay more than the auto-debit for a couple months). Got a call, they ‘updated’ his profile (no change)…he thought it was the usual ‘can we give you more credit call’ and didn’t realize until well into it that they wanted to dial him back.

    He told them, and did, that he would just pay the entire balance right away. They said fine, but told him they were still dialing him back. LOL. Nothing to see there.

    Someone said Yellen gets first look at data and that was astute. Commercial bankers are next in line. If they’re dialing back their balance sheets (ie, credit)….recession inbound.

  110. Hughesrep says:


    Again, annually, but no one does it.

    Depends on the type of boiler. If it’s an old school cast iron boiler and have no leaks, and no make up water your boiler is a closed system and should in theory be fine forever without doing much of anything. You can pass golf balls through those things. Theory rarely meets reality.

    I will say modern high efficiency boilers have very tiny heat exchangers comparatively. Gunk in the system can clog those up and kill the heat exchanger. They make magnetic filters you can put in line that will clean that up. It’s a good idea especially if you have cast iron radiators or a steel pipe system. For copper systems or pex radiant systems it’s not really necessary.

  111. The Great Pumpkin says:

    Email in the link. What I said over and over, you can’t be innovative with a workforce that is at home knocking off “to do lists.” If your company is WFH, the minute their competitors go “in person,” the high chance this WFH company will get left in the dust.

    “NEWS: @elonmusk sends second email to “be super clear” that remote work is not acceptable at Tesla and working in-person crucial to making “the most exciting and meaningful products of any company on Earth.”

    (Including original email as well)”

  112. The Great Pumpkin says:


    “He cares about the mission of the company. Whatever it takes. Clearly, he has observed some degree of unproductive activity going on for him to send this message”

  113. Fast Eddie says:

    punken haed,

    nO skool agin?

  114. The Great Pumpkin says:

    Enjoying my victory laps. Once again, I was called the village idiot for my position on WFH over the last two years. Said over and over, it’s a short-term trend. Held my conviction even when it seemed like I would be dead wrong, and boom, winner winner ckn dinner! Not bad for dumb teacher who doesn’t work in corporate and therefore should have no opinion. :)

    Fast Eddie says:
    June 1, 2022 at 1:21 pm
    punken haed,

    nO skool agin?

  115. Phoenix says:

    Dramatic picture shows hero border agent storming Uvalde elementary school with borrowed shotgun to save his wife, daughter and 20 other kids while local police failed to act despite 911 calls from kids INSIDE classroom.

    U.S Custom and Border Patrol agent Jacob Albarado was off duty when he borrowed his barber’s shotgun to try and save his wife and daughter.

    Blue lives scatter…

  116. Libturd says:


    Be careful of the expensive product hedge. The wealthy did incredibly well during the pandemic. It might be a little while longer before they cut back. Now if you can find a product or brand that screams middle class (like Subaru), that’s where you will find shorting gold. The middle always gets screwed. But it really took off under Trump/Biden.

    I’ve actually been thinking about the employee shortages everywhere. For instance, on Monday Night, we ran out for ice cream. One person working. It was near 90 degrees on Memorial Day and the best our ice cream place can do is one high school kid. It’s crazy too, because with tips, this kid had to be making $50 an hour or more. The problem MUST BE that no one will work the menial jobs anymore because it’s simply easier not to work and get paid the same amount from the government. Between the phone, the rent free housing (eviction hearings not starting until August so most will still be living for nearly 3 years rent free), the WIC and the welfare check. Why risk making income on the books. You simply have too much to lose.

    I experienced something excellent this morning. Someone passed me on the right on a one lane road (Ridgewood Avenue) to try to run a yellow/red light that I was slowing to a stop for. Well there really wasn’t enough room for the driver to whip in front of me and then stop without blocking half of the major intersection. I slammed on the breaks to avoid him side swiping me just in time. I had the ‘D’ in the car with me, so I turned the car off, got out, locked the doors and walked up to the driver’s window to ask where he was going in such a hurry? As I did this, a cop pulls up and says, “I’ll take it from here.” People today have become complete morons.

  117. Hold my beer says:


    Thanks for the hot water eater info.

  118. Trick says:

    Not bad if they can build them and not catch on fire

    The Detroit automaker cut the price of the Bolt EV to a starting price of $26,595, down $5,900 from the 2022 model year. GM also reduced the price of its larger Bolt EUV by $6,300 to start at $28,195. All pricing includes a mandatory $995 destination charge.

    Question is keep the 4runner and buy one for commuting or sell the current truck and keep the incoming Lighting? Spending almost $400 on gas a month(knowing that it will not last for ever) I have not idea what I’m going to do this fall, but nice to have options.

    Hedging on doing nothing and keeping the runner with 125k on the clock.

  119. Phoenix says:

    Stop Resisting. Cooperate already.

    ‘Such a sorry excuse for man’: Uvalde community’s fury at police chief Pete Arredondo for refusing to cooperate with state probe into school massacre that left 19 kids dead after his cops did NOTHING

  120. Ex says:

    1:57 … you should see the folks out here. Rivals the East Coast for pure insanity.

  121. Ex says:

    1:30 staaaawp

  122. Juice Box says:

    Johnny Depp won his defamation case.

  123. 3b says:

    Juice: Does he get money?

  124. Juice Box says:

    Still being read now…

  125. Juice Box says:

    compensatory damages $10 million

    Punitive Damages $5 Million

  126. Juice Box says:

    Seems Amber Heard won parts of her counter suit as well.

    compensatory damages $2 million

    Punitive Damages $0 Million

  127. grim says:

    What’s a pirates favorite letter?


    Yarr, you might think it beeeee, but a pirates true love is the C.

  128. Trick says:


    Are you taste testing at the distillery?

  129. 3b says:

    Juice: I wonder if she has that kind of cash, to pay ?

  130. Libturd says:

    Dropping a grumpy sure is pricey.

  131. crushednjmillenial says:

    Heard got $7M in her divorce settlement with Depp. Don’t know if that has been squandered or if she still has it.

    I’m really happy about the $5M in punitives – not dischargeable in bankruptcy, so if she can’t pay, then that part of the judgment is always on her shoulders.

  132. Juice Box says:

    3B – If she had invested everything she got over the years as well as what Johnny gave her in the divorce perhaps. Who knows she could be a millions short. The jury did the right thing found both of them guilty of defamation, but gave him more money. It might have been better if both were awarded the same amount and it cancelled out their crazy town life they once had. I mean the drug use alone was bad enough at their own wedding and seemed to be a constant common factor of their lives together, like both needed drugs to even function. I would say both are very destructive people to themselves mostly, hopefully their kids can get over it. Her new baby is reportedly Elon Musk’s kid too, they apparently froze embryos back in 2017 when just dating and she decided to thaw one via a surrogate last year. Just Complete Crazy Town….

  133. 3b says:

    Juice: I am not up on their situation, they sound like a lot of f yuck ed up Hollywood types. I never heard of her until this trial. I saw part of Depps testimony a week or two ago in passing, and noticed Depp can barely speak. It must be all the drugs.

  134. Juice Box says:

    Crushed – The judge just reduced the $5 million punitive damage award for Johnny, because Virginia law caps punitive damages in these cases at $350,000. Amber owes Johnny $8,350,000 based on that.

    It’s possible she has it, but I have a feeling he will never see a Nickle for a long time, appeals will be filed within days to the circuit court and then the perhaps again to the Virginia supreme court and well lawyer’s will eat up whatever money she has left and the amounts awarded could be reduced upon appeal etc etc. I don’t think it’s over by a long shot.

  135. 3b says:

    That doofus Jim Cramer talking up how the summer will be great for stocks. Who pays attention to this guy?

  136. Libturd says:

    The same people who buy Teslas.

    Yesterday, my older son and I drove past an $115,0000 Model X. The LED tailights are half on the trunk and half on the rear body panel of the car. On the left side, the alignment was off by at least five mm. You could clearly see it when four or five car lengths back since about 5 horizontal lines of design align across the trunk cut. It was aligned fine on the passenger side though.

    If I’m paying that kind of money, I would make sure it wasn’t built like a POS.

    I showed my son and he said his friends dad had one of these, he thought the inside looked fake and plasticky and said the leather interior of my Mazda 6 GT was much nicer. He said the steering wheel was a yoke which he thought was gimmicky and having an iPad instead of a dash was not as easy to glance at for readings as a traditional mechanical layout.

    I love this kid!

  137. Fast Eddie says:

    Dropping a grumpy sure is pricey.


  138. 3b says:

    Lib: I have never seen the inside of a Tesla, but have seen Tesla’s zipping around while out and about. They don’t very cutting edge, design wise, and except for the Tesla medallion that identifies it, they look pretty nondescript and dull.

  139. 3b says:

    A recent survey by Partnership for New York City a business group; found that nearly 80 percent of the 160 major major companies in Manhattan said they anticipate moving to a permanently hybrid work schedule. Remote/ hybrid is not going away. Period.

  140. The Great Pumpkin says:

    Not allowing WFH at your company is a beautiful screening process for avoiding the complainers and lazy workers that only care about themselves. These in person companies are going to eat their competition if they choose to go remote. Lmao.

    Makes me feel way more confident when it comes to investing in Tesla. Their boss wants to win.

    Watch and learn…
    3b says:
    June 1, 2022 at 6:22 pm
    A recent survey by Partnership for New York City a business group; found that nearly 80 percent of the 160 major major companies in Manhattan said they anticipate moving to a permanently hybrid work schedule. Remote/ hybrid is not going away. Period.

  141. chicagofinance says:

    Biden to Cancel All Student Debt From Defunct Corinthian Colleges

    Loan forgiveness involving for-profit education company amounts to $5.8 billion, the largest single student-debt cancellation ever by the U.S. government

    By Gabriel T. Rubin
    June 1, 2022

    The Biden administration said Wednesday it would forgive all of the loans outstanding held by students who attended Corinthian Colleges, which at $5.8 billion amounts to the largest single action of debt cancellation ever by the federal government.

    The Education Department estimated that 560,000 student borrowers would be affected by the move involving the defunct, for-profit education company.

    Borrowers who attended Corinthian schools like Everest, Heald and Wyotech, located throughout the country and online, have been pressing the federal government for relief for years, especially following the company’s declaration of bankruptcy in 2015. Around 100,000 former Corinthian students have successfully applied for relief under Education Department rules for defrauded borrowers and students who attend schools that close while they are attending them or shortly afterward.

    Now, the remaining 560,000 borrowers will be eligible for automatic discharges of their remaining Corinthian federal student-loan debt. All remaining federal loans held by anyone who attended a Corinthian school between its founding in 1995 and its 2015 closure are eligible.

    The move is by far the largest single discharge of student debt ever. Prior to Wednesday, the Biden administration’s actions had resulted in around $19 billion in loan forgiveness for more than 750,000 borrowers since President Biden, a Democrat, took office, including more than $2 billion through the borrower defense to repayment program, according to Education Department data. Wednesday’s action will rely on borrower defense authorities.

    “As of today, every student deceived, defrauded and driven into debt by Corinthian Colleges can rest assured that the Biden-Harris administration has their back and will discharge their federal student loans,” said Education Secretary Miguel Cardona in a statement.

    Vice President Kamala Harris, who in 2016 as the state attorney general in California obtained a $1.1 billion judgment against Corinthian, is expected to formally announce the plan at the Education Department on Thursday afternoon.

    The move follows calls from senior Democrats including Senate Judiciary Committee Chairman Dick Durbin of Illinois and Senate Banking Committee Chairman Sherrod Brown of Ohio, among others, for the department to move more quickly to forgive the longstanding debts.

    “We have long urged the Department to use its broad authority to provide borrowers cheated by Corinthian and other institutions found to have engaged in widespread unfair, deceptive, and abusive practices with expeditious relief,” the lawmakers wrote in a letter to Mr. Cardona in March.

    The administration still hasn’t released its plan, expected this spring, to expand forgiveness of student loans under the borrower defense program. An eventual regulatory proposal is expected to make it easier for student borrowers to apply for discharges if they were misled by for-profit schools about their career prospects, or if the schools broke state consumer-protection laws or otherwise harmed them financially.

    The rule, if enacted, would change the current application process in ways that are opposed by for-profit schools, like by extending time limits for submitting claims and making it easier for borrowers to show evidence of fraud. For-profit schools particularly object to a proposal under consideration to create a group-claims process in which borrowers with similar experiences of being misled by a school could team up to allege they were defrauded.

    The Biden administration approach would amount to a reversal of the Republican Trump administration’s tightening of the borrower defense rules it inherited from the Democratic Obama administration. The Obama-era rules were in part drafted to forgive the debt of borrowers who attended schools that the administration accused of deceptive marketing, including Corinthian Colleges.

    Trump officials said the Obama-era rules were too broad and vague and threatened to drive up the taxpayer costs of covering canceled debt. The Trump administration denied more than 100,000 borrower defense claims in 2020, and borrowers whose claims were approved were often granted partial rather than full debt forgiveness.

    As of the end of 2021, 423,000 borrowers had filed claims under the program and around 157,000 applications had either not been processed or borrowers hadn’t yet been told whether their claims were approved. The program applies to both for-profit and nonprofit schools, but there have been no successful claims against the latter group.

    The Trump and now Biden administrations have faced lawsuits over the backlog, and senior Education Department officials have promised to speed up the forgiveness process, especially for borrowers whose claims have already been approved.

    The administration’s efforts come as it plots its way forward on the politically potent issue of student-debt forgiveness ahead of the 2022 midterm elections. Around 40 million borrowers hold $1.6 trillion in federal student debt. Rather than pursue broad-based, student-debt cancellation, as some political allies urge, the administration instead has taken a piecemeal approach using the borrower defense rule, canceling billions in debt held by borrowers with disabilities and revamping the forgiveness process for those who have pursued careers in public service.

    Payments and interest on federal student loans are currently paused until Aug. 31, after a half-dozen extensions of a pandemic-era policy by the Trump and Biden administrations.

  142. Hold my beer says:


    The Kia ev 6 looks very cool. Tesla seems bland to me.

  143. Libturd says:

    The Model 3 screams Mazda 3. That’s the brilliance of Musk. Few who are buying one today would even know the body was pretty much designed by Mazda. Of course, you can buy two Mazda 3s for the price of a single Model 3.

  144. 3b says:

    Hold: I agree, it is a beautiful car, cool but very refined. I also like the Kia Telluride SUV.

  145. chicagofinance says:

    Dodger Stadium tribute to Fletch. The organist is a big DM fan…..

  146. The Great Pumpkin says:

    Chi, that’s disgusting that we have to pay for idiots that signed up for “for-profit” scams. What a f’ing joke. What’s next, canceling gambling debts by degenerates? So many losers out there..

  147. The Great Pumpkin says:

    Why don’t we cancel the debts of the idiots that went all in on arkk at the top….or the idiots that took out loans to buy real estate in overpriced florida?

  148. The Great Pumpkin says:

    “More than a third of Americans earning at least $250,000 annually say they are living paycheck to paycheck, underscoring how inflation is taking a bigger bite out of Americans’ budgets at all ends of the pay spectrum.

    Some 36% of households taking in nearly four times the median US salary devote nearly all of their income to household expenses, according to a survey by industry publication and LendingClub Corp.

    It’s particularly true among millennials, who are now in their mid-20s to early 40s: More than half of top earners in that generation report having little left at the end of the month.”

  149. BRT says:

    the NY bill:

    Makes unlawful the purchase and sale of body vests for anyone who is not engaged in an eligible profession. Eligible professions include law enforcement officers and other professions designated by the Department of State in consultation with other agencies. Also requires that any sale of a body vest be done in person.

    Oh…so the plebes can’t have bullet proof vests?

  150. The Great Pumpkin says:


    Half of the top earners in our age cohort can’t save a dollar. Wow.

  151. Walking says:

    Trick, its a bigger deal not to have an electric catch fire if you are in an accident. There was a recent tesla on the palisades parkway that crashed into a tree. It took the firemen 2 hours to recover the body from the burning vehicle. All that said I may buy one of these bolts though, not having to pump gas while driving up to Boston, winl,
    March 4, 22
    A New Jersey man died in a crash on the Palisades Interstate Parkway in New York during Saturday’s snow when his Tesla slid off the road.

    The crash ignited the car’s lithium battery, requiring several thousand gallons of water to douse the flames.

    New York State Police said the snow was a factor in causing Jyung Hahn, 46, of Cresskill, to go off the northbound lanes around 11 a.m. and into a tree near Exit 10 in Nanuet. The sedan became fully engulfed in flames.
    Read More: Tesla battery fire takes two hours to put out, NJ man dies |

  152. Fabius Maximus says:

    “Rhetoric: The cornerstone of the democrat party.”
    Hypocrisy, the cornerstone of the GOP
    “need to be specifically prohibited from enacting further laws until they can demonstrate the effectiveness and enforcement of current ones.” “Can’t discern a solution to a problem unless you know what you are trying to solve….””
    Left, working my way through that Word Salad, it shows the core of your hypocrisy. It ignores the fact that the GOP basically defunded all research and data gathering back in 2004, so there is no data to quantify anything for the best part of the last 20 years. So any argument made, you claim “you never researched that” while ignoring the fact your party burnt down the library.
    As to some of your other deep insights. I don’t hear ideas, I just hear excuses why we cant do anything.
    “Guns come in last”, no they come in first. If there are no Guns, no issue. We need to look to tightening access and control.
    “banning 5.56 rounds” This is from me, reduce the lethality of what’s out there.
    “well, a shooter could kill only nine rather than 19 – is that the problem we are trying to solve?” That’s 10 people this side of Six Feet Under. If we cant go to zero at this point, I’ll take any reduction I can get.
    “banging out a charge he’ll never pay is going to prevent him?” As we have seen with the FCC and the preppers. You put 10K-30K fines against a lot of people for holding and using illegal items, they give it up and move on. Even Donnie faced with 10K a day fines from the NYAG he caved after 12 days. Ban 556, you have 30days to get rid of what you are holding and its $10/round if you are caught holding it. That will go a long way to solving that issue.
    “it is that no one is looking at it and responding in a timely fashion” A lot of the problems stem from the point that we don’t have red flag laws or consistent gun laws in every state. The Odessa TX sh00ter failed a Federal Background Check, but Abbots lax guns that he passed allowed the purchases to go forward. There is a lot of blood on Abbots hands.
    “a gun owner may forego any treatment out of fear of confiscation ” If they don’t get in the first place or the Red flags work, its a moot point.
    “22 mass killings a year (four or more victims) ” Oh its more that that. I’m looking at the TV and they are reporting the hospital reporting 3 dead and the shooter makes 4, so add another one to the pile. The CT Gov posted that we have had 18 more since TX last week.
    ” we’ll profile first” Enforce mandatory training and let the Instructors make the determination. It works when we try to determine if you are fit to drive. Will it catch all, no, bit the more checks and balances the better.
    “school was a soft target” This is such a disingenuous argument. If anyone that committed one of these atrocites could have tossed a grenade through a window, the would have. But they don’t have access to those. LA was not a school, supermarkets are not schools etc, etc, etc. Schools just heighten the visibility of the underlying issue,
    “government has 100% knowledge of the identity and background of the original owner of each of those 400 million weapons” As I have said before, manufacturers don’t make illegal firearms. States like, VA, CO, IA and others are responsible for that issue.
    You want to do something to address this. Reclaim your party and cleanse it of the NRA money, the wingnuts, the Q and the White Supremacists’.

  153. Fabius Maximus says:


    I drove past that Tesla crash and know a few first responders that were on the call. The Thermal Runaway on the battery, left them with no chance to get out.
    I have two Prius’s and I know the risks of lithium batteries. Mine are located in the Trunk and not under my feet, so I have some chance of getting out.

  154. Juice Box says:

    BRT – teachers will be allowed as well as pizza delivery guys..

    Fun fact of the day.. Detroit Pizza guy who was tired of getting shot while delivering pizza created modern lightweight Kevlar body armor in 1975.

  155. Libturd says:


    The Telluride is the best looking SUV out there right now. Those LED daytime running lights are really sharp and the Telluride lettering on the front and back gives it a Range Rover look. The captain seats kick ass too. I’m like 95% sold on it being my next car.

  156. Fabius Maximus says:

    I bought my first Prius in 2007 and still have it. Here are a few of my issues with the state of the EV industry and my issues with Tesla.

    First Kudos to Tesla for the Battery Range, for me that is the only positive of the company.

    People have pointed out build quality. It is Sh1t. Google it. I have a friend that is a Tesla Tech and a very skilled one. He loves the fact when they send him to Albany from NYC to work on Warranty repairs, they pay him from pick up to drop off. So he is paid for that 4 hrs travel in the car. Why are they sending him in the first place. What’s it like in the rest of the country where you don’t have the density of NYC.

    Charging stations. You have this network of Charging stations which is great. A few that I pass on major highways are full with people waiting. You cant charge non Tesla EVs on them. Yet when I go to my municipal chargers, there is most likely a Tesla sitting on it.

    Self driving. I get the advances in Self Driving, but its still in its infacy. On Saturday, I drove to the local plaza to pick up one of my kids from the cinema. I indicate to turn into an aisle, but I get blocked. There is a THole (Tesla Assh0le) standing at the top of the aisle, showing off to some woman how he can summon his car. As the car pulls up to him, he realizes he is blocking a T Junction with six cars waiting and he sheepishly climbs into his car and reverses it out of the junction and back down the aisle.

    I give the company two years. In the end we will have the charging stations changed over to universal use.

  157. Fabius Maximus says:

    And for you 2A wingnuts, here is a nice breakdown of what the constitution actually says. Take 4 mins out of your life and educate yourself.

  158. Fabius Maximus says:

    While I cant stand Tood, there are a lot of good points made here by the guest!

  159. Phoenix says:

    “Oh…so the plebes can’t have bullet proof vests?”

    Well, I have posted in the past cited law where the police have no duty to protect you.
    They have no duty to investigate for you.

    Obviously can’t protect a group of children in a school.

    Yet the govt legislates anything you do to trying to protect yourself.
    So no vest for you. And if dolt Americans allow legislation to pass disarming themselves they get what they deserve.

  160. Fabius Maximus says:

    Why should the plebes need bullet proof vests?””

  161. Phoenix says:

    The student loan forgiveness amount is a pittance @ 5.8 B
    And it went to Americans. Yeah, My Fellow Americans.
    Better that than one dime to a foreign country for a proxy war.
    China and India are smart buying up all of the cheap Russian oil-it’s lowering their costs and increasing their profit margings, then selling it at top dollar to Americans at inflated profits.
    Freedom isn’t free, Dementia Joe told me so.

    “US aid to Ukraine could hit $53B

    Along with the $13.6 billion passed in March, the combined $53.7 billion is about 81% of Russia’s 2021 defense budget.”

  162. Phoenix says:

    Why should the plebes need bullet proof vests?””

    To protect themselves from gun happy police officers.

    All it takes is one Karen to claim you have a gun and she is fearful for her life and you will look like ventilated swiss cheese.

  163. Phoenix says:

    She could have used one. Same with the girl in the department store trying on her quinceanera dress:

    His assignment was the Burlington clothing store in North Hollywood, where on Thursday an LAPD officer fatally shot a 14-year-old girl, Valentina Orellana-Peralta, who was trying on clothes in a dressing room. The officer was firing on a suspect, and one bullet went through a wall and struck the girl, police said.

    Confused after throwing a deafening and blinding “flashbang” into a home, police mistakenly shot and killed a sleeping seven-year-old girl. Seven-year-old Aiyana Jones was sleeping on the couch next to her grandmother in their Detroit, Michigan home when a SWAT team threw a flashbang through the window, which landed on her blanket.

  164. grim says:

    I got a joke.

    Whats the difference between a battery and a bomb?

    The energy density.

    Ha ha.

    No, in all seriousness, the better we can make batteries (more energy, smaller), the closer they get to being bombs.

  165. grim says:

    Not that it’s any different from gasoline or hydrogen, mind you.

  166. Phoenix says:

    The FBI has entered the chat.

  167. Ex says:

    Electric cars are everywhere out here. Still don’t care.

  168. grim says:

    Ah, new post coming up

  169. Phoenix says:

    “Heard’s supporters – who have been overwhelmingly drowned out by Depp’s devoted fans – called the verdict sexist, racist and an injustice” Here is what Hillary had to say:

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