Time for the middle?

From the NY Times:

Coastal Cities Priced Out Low-Wage Workers. Now College Graduates Are Leaving, Too.

The college graduates who fill white-collar jobs in the San Francisco area began to leave in growing numbers about a decade ago. More and more have moved to other parts of the country — an accelerating outflow of educated workers that, in a poorer part of America, might be thought of as brain drain.

A chart showing net domestic migration of college-educated working-age adults in the Washington, D.C., metro area, going from a peak annual gain of over 20,000 people in 2011 to a loss of roughly 15,000 people in 2021.

This pattern, visible in an Upshot analysis of census microdata, is startling in retrospect. Major coastal metros have been hubs of the kind of educated workers coveted most by high-powered employers and economic development officials. Economists have lamented the growing coastal concentration of their wealth. A politics of resentment in America has fed on it, too. These urban centers have become a class of their own — “superstar cities” — with outsize impact on the American economy fueled by the clustering of workers with degrees.

But it appears in domestic migration data that, years after lower-wage residents have been priced out of expensive coastal metros, higher-paid workers are now turning away from them, too.

Working-age Americans with a degree are still flowing into these regions from other parts of the country, often in large numbers. But as the pool leaving grows faster, that educational advantage is eroding. Boston’s pull with college graduates has weakened. Seattle’s edge vanished during the pandemic. And the analysis shows San Francisco, San Jose, Los Angeles and Washington all crossing a significant threshold: More college-educated workers left than moved in.

For most of this century, large metros with a million residents or more have received all of the net gains from college-educated workers migrating around the country, at the expense of smaller places. But among those large urban areas, the dozen metros with the highest living costs — nearly all of them coastal — have had a uniquely bifurcated migration pattern: As they saw net gains from college graduates, they lost large numbers of workers without degrees.

At least, that was true until recently. Now, large, expensive metros are shedding both kinds of workers.

This entry was posted in Demographics, Economics, Employment, National Real Estate. Bookmark the permalink.

103 Responses to Time for the middle?

  1. dentss dunnigan says:

    first

  2. Jim says:

    Second?

  3. Fast Eddie says:

    For most of this century, large metros with a million residents or more have received all of the net gains from college-educated workers migrating around the country, at the expense of smaller places. But among those large urban areas, the dozen metros with the highest living costs — nearly all of them coastal — have had a uniquely bifurcated migration pattern: As they saw net gains from college graduates, they lost large numbers of workers without degrees.

    At least, that was true until recently. Now, large, expensive metros are shedding both kinds of workers.

    They’re all moving to NASCAR country and reconnecting with an authentic America.

  4. Hughesrep says:

    I spent 25 years in NASCAR country. Hard pass.

  5. 3b says:

    I saw this article the other day. It’s not surprising.

  6. Juice Box says:

    Ed there are not that many NASCAR Tracks. Plenty of States don’t have one, and most of the ones that do only have one track, attendance is only 3.5 million a year. For comparison NFL in person attendance is about 19 million.

    Average NASCAR fan is 58 year old male who drinks domestic beer and eats fast food. Not exactly the authentic anything.

    BTW – I have been to Sonoma Raceway. That is not exactly red neck country. Perhaps one of the richest areas of the country, the raceway does wine tasting events with the local winerys too.

  7. Bystander says:

    Honestly, I am thinking of leaving the area sooner than later. I would say 70% of jobs have multiple locations offered yet appear to have no CoL adjustment for NYC area. On top of that, why take 150K in NYC when I see 150K remote roles offered in places like Idaho City. I am not sure if legit but I see a common theme – the salary difference between cheaper areas of country and NYC has shrunk to almost no difference. I had remote role for Northern Trust (Chicago) for 90/hr while Citi is trying to fill roles at 70/hr with 3 days in office. I almost never see over $100/hr in NYC. How can that be? I am not even considering contract work but sure seems like NYC is headed towards a bad place.

  8. Phoenix says:

    For those that value this mans opinion:

    Tesla CEO Elon Musk last night condemned working from home as ‘morally wrong’, saying the practice is unfair for service workers who still have to show up.

  9. The Great Pumpkin says:

    It’s all a cycle, 3b. That’s all it is. Capitalism going to work. Drive up pricing in one location and then the less desirable location (lower price) eventually becomes desirable due to pricing. Then the price rises eventually in these less desirable locations making the more expensive location a bargain in pricing again….this has happened over and over in your life. How many times has poconos become desirable and undesirable in your lifetime. Same with NYC. Obviously, each time is different as the sprawl gets larger and larger with each cycle.

    3b says:
    May 17, 2023 at 8:09 am
    I saw this article the other day. It’s not surprising.

  10. Phoenix says:

    Bystander,

    Where I work they are still using Windows 7.

  11. Bystander says:

    I get it, Phoenix. Also morally wrong – why is it ok to source engineers, developers, QA, business analysts, PM, scrum masters, tech support, software architects from every third world country and bring them here…or taking our tax money then use it to create more jobs in Bangalore? I did not ask to show up at an office to then be on calls all day with India and Poland. Why can’t portfolio management and trading be done in India? Save clients millions? The rules are not fair all around.

  12. Phoenix says:

    Bystander,
    It’s because America is based on capitalism, not nationalism or patriotism.

    Those two things are actually the bull shite that America sells, along with justice, all things that are secondary to money.

    The decline is only beginning. NYT had another article on that pathologic software called Pegasus and it’s rabid stepchild called Landmark.

    No election will be legit in the future. Dirt on anyone the “elite” deem beneath them will be either unearthed or “falsely created,” installed on their cellphones, and advertised as the truth.

    Article on BI about Chinese cars coming to America, I will certainly buy one if the price is right, America boxes you into a financial corner- Look at Russia, it’s not losing a physical war, it’s losing a financial one. Can’t buy materials, can’t build weapons- America controls the world with money, it controls it’s citizens with money.

    If China wants to defeat America, it has to do it by eliminating the dollar as a standard. Not an easy task. America has the watch, China has the time.

  13. Fast Eddie says:

    Hughesrep — Lol. ;)

    Juice — I know all the stats. :)

  14. Juice Box says:

    ‘morally wrong’ says the car salesman and fossil fuel burning king who has no single office and probably spends more than 100 hours a month flying in his private jets. His whole life is working remotely and hybrid etc.

    Just in the last two days Elon took a 12hr flight after partying in Cabo, Mexico on Sunday night to Paris France to meet with President Macron on Monday for a few hours and was already on his way back later on Monday on a flight to Texas for the TESLA shareholder meeting yesterday.

  15. Phoenix says:

    “Average NASCAR fan is 58 year old male who drinks domestic beer and eats fast food. Not exactly the authentic anything.”

    And fixes your car, your toilet, and your roof. Tills the soil so you have food to eat. Drives a truck so you can get your dry aged steak at your fancy restaurant. Donates his weekends at the local fire department so his neighbors can feel save.

    I guess a guy with an Armani suit that eats at Mari’s and outsources American jobs, or runs one of the American banking cartels is a much more upstanding citizen.

  16. Boomer Remover says:

    [EXPLETIVE]… Musk is so full of shi….

    Just said he sees twenty billion Tesla robots living amongst us, in the very near future, something he’s fairly confident of. Just ramblings filled with um’s and ahh’s… how do people in the audience eat this sht up with a straight face?

  17. Phoenix says:

    Feel safe.

  18. Juice Box says:

    Ed, my point is authentic what? Dukes of Hazzard or something? West Virginia does not even have a NASCAR track anymore they did not even invest in the racing area from where it originated. Appalachia is where stock car racing has it’s roots in whiskey running.

    Have you been to the hall of fame?

    https://www.nascarhall.com/blog/moonshine

  19. Phoenix says:

    NASCAR has nothing on this:

    https://youtu.be/6QJnm_evy-s?t=2

  20. Phoenix says:

    Elon Musk has a vision for your future. Don’t you dare second guess him.

    He has money. Lots and lots of money. You will do what he says.

  21. Juice Box says:

    Phoenix- Robots are coming for many more farm jobs. John Deer has an electric robotic tractor coming to market. Robots and AI can already pick fruit and veggies 24 x 7 rain or shine.

    Would it surprise you to know the CEO of the failed SVB bank was the son of an Indiana farmer who went to a farming college? No Armani suit there, but perhaps he spent too much time relying on the B school consultants and riding his road bicycle in 100 mile road races while vacationing in Hawaii.

    Heck one of the biggest contributors to farming I can think of if the last 30 years farming was a farmer named Wendell Murphy. He computerized small family farms organized the entire supply chain for those small mom and pop feeder farms for pigs. It a Great American Story, he cashed out way back in the 1990s, sold to Smithfield Foods which was then sold to the Chinese.

    https://www.agriculture.com/livestock/pork-powerhouses/meet-the-man-who-built-the-modern-pig-business

  22. Fast Eddie says:

    Juice,

    Have you been to the hall of fame?

    This summer will attend. Bootleggers were running from coast to coast but the birth of NASCAR was basically rooted in Wilkes County. It’s an interesting history and the sport itself is not nearly as mainstream as football or baseball. I love the aura around it and the people who love it. Simple as that. I love the sea of American flags, the invocation, the military guards standing there during the National Anthem, the flyover, the sound of those engines and the aroma of gas and rubber. Oh well, silly me. :)

  23. Juice Box says:

    Tesla robots – So far they are about as smart as the average weightlifter they can pick things up and put them down.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XiQkeWOFwmk&t=1s

  24. Phoenix says:

    Didn’t take long for them to dox this one. She should probably dye her hair and move to Europe.

    This is how you get justice in America without paying for a 500 dollar an hour attorney that is worthless.

    https://twitter.com/ComputeBlu/status/1658093186902810626?s=20

  25. Juice Box says:

    Ed- It’s entertainment, you like what you like. As far as the military the Air Force is now the only sponsor of a car. The other branches like the National Guard no longer sponsor a car because they have found NASCAR to be an ineffective recruitment tool.

    10 years ago the National Guard spent 130 million over five year’s deal sponsoring Dale Earnhardt Jr.’s National Guard car. However that sponsorship was only credited with attracting only 20 qualified candidates, none of whom actually ended up joining the military.

    There is no need for 58 year old men today or back then 48 year old men in the armed services as recruits.

    I for one don’t want to see the military sponsoring even a pickleball tournament or even a e-sports team. But they are. They now spend 10 of millions to streamers these days to recruit. NASCAR not so much anymore….vroom vroom could be a dying sport anyway who wants to watch and electric car driven by a robot?

  26. Phoenix says:

    TikTok and YouTube have the most genuine, grass roots type of entertainment for a price even Cap’n Cheapo can’t argue with.

    There is no longer a need to go to a zoo to see the animals, Americans are the animals, they film themselves, and stream the entertainment directly to you on your cellphone.

    It really can’t get much better than this!

  27. Juice Box says:

    Lots of video’s like this one coming out of Florida. No workers on site.

    https://twitter.com/FilmThePoliceLA/status/1658595975047573504

    Florida is home to at least 800,000 undocumented workers.

    https://www.vox.com/2023/5/17/23725952/ron-desantis-immigration-law-florida

  28. Phoenix says:

    Musk impressed me.

    Was on CNBC, basically told the muppet reporter who was trying to box him in ” I will say what I want and if it costs me money so be it.”

    Maybe not the exact quote, but close.

    Good for him.

  29. Libturd says:

    Boomer,

    The first time I actually heard Musk speak was on SNL. That was when he used his spotlight to promote Dogecoin. That’s all I needed to hear. Just another uber riche asshole using his wealth to take advantage of a situation which you and I can not. I liken it to when you have a huge chip lead on the poker table. You can afford to go in on 7,8 off suit. The other five guys all have a face card, but their second cards are all too low to risk what few chips they have left. Even though I’m only a 40%er to win, I push them all out while having the worst cards on the table. This is the greed of Elon Musk.

    I watched a few minutes of the Tesla earnings show after the market closed yesterday. He uses the same formula that made Steve Jobs a legend. He dresses down, but in all black. The room is dark, but the stage is lit by spotlight mainly. And he speaks of Tesla as “us” as if everyone in the room were on the executive board. For whatever reason, the Pumps’ of the world eat this shit up. No real projections are made. Mainly just platitudes are shared.

    I hated Musk from the day I heard he launched a car into space. Like KW, he’s just another marketing genius who will not get out before he wrecks it all. Then again, it’s hard to make money when not relying on massive government subsidies.

  30. P says:

    So,
    You (American Contractor) hire undocumented worker (cheap labor, borderline slave.)

    So why do this? No American workers showed up for the jobs at the pay rate you listed?

    You have a problem. You need to be rich, your wife wants a 2 million dollar home in order to be happy. You don’t do it she will poison you with fentanyl, write a book called “Are You with Me”, buy the house after your death, and throw a party. What choice do you have?

    Ron DeSantis the blood of the dead contractors is now on your hands.

    Ron DeSantis these contractor’s

  31. Juice Box says:

    Phoenix – It’s this kind of social media crap that gets people hurt. That woman was sitting on the bicycle he wasn’t that means he lost whatever race occurred to claim it first. Sure it’s not clear what happened a few seconds before filming started, but she was on the bike, either way the other young man should have been commended since her offered the other bicycle to her and mentioned it did not matter since there were other bikes available, he had more common since than the young man wearing a shirt with “childish” as a logo. If you watch it again you can see she was also visibly shaking at 1:05, that is not acting.

  32. ExEx says:

    NASCAR is testing racing with electric cars.

  33. Phoenix says:

    Capitalism promotes greed. America is capitalism.

    And water is wet.

    If you are a capitalist, Musk is textbook. He is the gold standard of capitalism.

    “This is the greed of Elon Musk.”

    Greed is good, best made with passive income if you are Americans, cause Americans prefer the money they make without working for it to the money they actually have to get off their fat azzes to make.

    Free passive money makes an American as moist as a Duncan Hines cake.

  34. Phoenix says:

    Juice,

    He had registered the bike electronically. It’s not who is sitting on it, it is who has paid for it.
    There were plenty of witnesses. And her “shake”- that is the reality setting in that she is not getting her way.

    I have experienced this type of behavior first hand. Used to be blind to it-but now I can spot the manipulation easily. No different than Central Park Karen.

  35. 1987 Condo says:

    Gary, NASCAR HOF, you have to do the race simulation, GREAT!

    Musk: question about what he says costing “who” money? Some think it costs the shareholders money, not just him.

  36. Juice Box says:

    Musk is all bluster…this has been going on with the SEC now for over five years. Courts just ruled again and told him he still cannot say what he wants about Tesla without a lawyer approving it. This is due to a settlement in 2018 with the SEC that Musk needs to have a minder if he says anything anything material about Tesla or its shareholders. If he goes against the SEC again he could face concept of court, they filed a motion for contempt back in 2019 and Elon backed down. Even one of the world richest men won’t risk jail time or worse being removed from controlling TESLA.

  37. The Great Pumpkin says:

    Eat this chit up? Name another individual that has accomplished more in the past 100 years. Do you see how many companies he successfully started? Yea, sounds like a con artist…right. More like sounds like a person that gets chit done. NASA was dead and he single handedly brought it back to life. I don’t know why people hate him so much.

    “I watched a few minutes of the Tesla earnings show after the market closed yesterday. He uses the same formula that made Steve Jobs a legend. He dresses down, but in all black. The room is dark, but the stage is lit by spotlight mainly. And he speaks of Tesla as “us” as if everyone in the room were on the executive board. For whatever reason, the Pumps’ of the world eat this shit up. No real projections are made. Mainly just platitudes are shared.”

  38. Juice Box says:

    Phoenix – That kid is full of shit and fooled you too. That bike did not have a green light, meaning it was not rented, and it was still locked in place to the rack.

  39. ExEx says:

    He’s a schmuck!??

  40. The Great Pumpkin says:

    He doesn’t really spend money on lavish things. He doesn’t live like a king. All he does with his money is create jobs and economic growth….economic growth that is focused on solving problems facing the human species. Yea, stone that greedy man.

    He has done more for freedom of speech in America than any other human being since our founding fathers.

    Phoenix says:
    May 17, 2023 at 10:46 am
    Capitalism promotes greed. America is capitalism.

    And water is wet.

    If you are a capitalist, Musk is textbook. He is the gold standard of capitalism.

    “This is the greed of Elon Musk.”

  41. The Great Pumpkin says:

    If another country had Elon, we would be f/ed. He is basically putting the American economy on his back and carrying it. Anyone else care to step up?

  42. Phoenix says:

    Juice,

    Sounds reasonable. Let’s wait and see what unfolds in the investigation. If what you said is true that should be very easy to figure out.

  43. ExEx says:

    Musk pretending he’s a man of the people is truly grating.

  44. ExEx says:

    “Musk’s companies together had received at least $4.9 billion in government funds and support by 2015, according to an investigation from the Los Angeles Times published that year, suggesting that his company’s may also qualify to receive the label.

  45. Juice Box says:

    Phoenix – what investigation? Evidence today is skin color. The mob has spoken burn the witch…

  46. Fast Eddie says:

    I’m aware of the electric car testing in NASCAR. It’s inevitable. Listen, if the sport dies in it’s current form, then that’s what it is. Nothing you can about it. Until then, I’ll enjoy the atmosphere and experience.

  47. ExEx says:

    It looks like Elon Musk needs to put his — or the taxpayer’s — money where his mouth is when it comes to “government-funded” enterprises.
    The Twitter owner’s controversial decision to slap a “government-funded media” label on NPR’s account led to the independent public broadcaster’s exit from the social network.
    Many saw the move as hypocritical, Gizmodo reports, since several of Musk’s ventures, including SpaceX and Tesla rely far more on government funding.
    While NPR does receive public grants, they only account for one percent of its revenue, the nonprofit news service claims. Those grants were only one percent of the organization’s $309 million revenue last year, though that percentage doesn’t include the government grants some of NPR’s local affiliates use to pay their licensing fees.
    Space Subsidies
    Compared to the amount of money Musk’s ventures have received from the government over the years, that’s chump change.
    SpaceX alone got a whopping $2.8 billion in government contracts last year, according to The Information, and has gotten a total of $15.3 billion from the government since 2003.
    While Gizmodo notes that Musk insists contract awards are not the same as the sort of subsidies that NPR gets, the news site is arguing that were it not for NASA taking a chance on SpaceX, the company would not exist today

  48. BRT says:

    I might consider twitter spending his money

  49. Phoenix says:

    Juice Box says:
    May 17, 2023 at 11:12 am
    Phoenix – what investigation? Evidence today is skin color. The mob has spoken burn the witch…

    Her employer will investigate. If they fire her without cause……

  50. Juice Box says:

    BRZT – that is a vanity spend too like botox and hair plugs.

  51. The Great Pumpkin says:

    Anyone can have access to this govt money. Start a company. It’s not like he wasted money. That money was tax payer money that was well spent in growing the economy and jobs. It made an American company the leader in the electric vehicle race. That’s good for all of us, no?

  52. Phoenix says:

    Former aide alleges Giuliani:
    • Made her work naked
    • Made her perform oral sex

    Umm, how about just say no? How exactly did he “make her?”

    My boss asks me to suck it, I’d be like, well, time to find a new job.
    But you wouldn’t find me down on my knees that’s for sure.

    Can’t wrap my head around that thought process.

  53. Phoenix says:

    That’s good for all of us, no?

    No.

  54. Phoenix says:

    Chinese electric cars will kick Tesla’s butt except for one thing:

    Tariffs.

    America will tariff them-to make them too expensive for W2 middle class workers who can’t afford a Tesla or a house to charge it in.

  55. The Great Pumpkin says:

    These people are insane. The company would not exist today? How about NASA would not exist today…he single handedly saved NASA. Put it on his back and improved rocket technology. He helped scale it and bring down costs, but let’s blast him because I hate him from a political perspective. The right did it to him for years for simply “wanting to bring an electric vehicle to market.” The left hate him now because of his position on freedom of speech…they don’t like him calling them out. Left and right can both suck it…get a life.

    “While Gizmodo notes that Musk insists contract awards are not the same as the sort of subsidies that NPR gets, the news site is arguing that were it not for NASA taking a chance on SpaceX, the company would not exist today”

  56. Juice Box says:

    re: NASA taking a chance on SpaceX

    Lol! We had gotten so bad at Space flight that the Air Force was were using RD-180 rocket engines produced in Russia of all places! Plus our own NASA had to rely on Russia for all Space Station launches of people and cargo.

    DoD pays for the flights mostly expensive satellite launches anyway. Musk has won the space race for now. 61 launches last year more than China with 35 and Russia with 21 last year.

    There are plenty of other startups even one with deep pockets like Bezos trying to take some of Space X’s DoD business. None are as of yet in the running.

  57. Bystander says:

    Phoenix,

    We have reached a new level of greed. Blue collar America does not want to do the low-paying jobs that Mexicans will do. White collar America now does not want to do the low-paying jobs that Indians want them to do. It is straight absurdity regarding number of Indian recruiting spammers who send crap jobs on behalf on India outsource providers, on American soil.

  58. Juice Box says:

    Phoenix – re: Her employer will investigate.

    Where is the video footage of who made it to mount the bike first? Poor woman is in hiding now they had that roaming reporter from ABC news knocking on her Apartment door last night. She may have already fled the country….

  59. Phoenix says:

    Juice,
    You made an observation about the light. I have looked through many comments, no mention of the light. Only lights I could find about those bikes don’t look like that- and I have no knowledge on these bikes.

    People on reddit Citibike forums believe he had it rented, I’m sure there is some record of that. They stated it was unlocked, not undocked. They stated she tried to steal his cell phone. They noted that in the end she just walked away. Users of these things would notice this.

    If I had paid for that bike, it was registered to me, I would have just called the police. I would be liable for that bike, right??

    There will be an investigation. Way too many people involved in this to let it drop.

    Time will tell. Let the facts come out. If I were in the right I would be the first to speak with a reporter.

    I have been accused of worse. I didn’t hide, lie, or obfuscate. If she is in the clear she needs to speak up LOUD and CLEAR.

    If not, she best put her tail between her legs and saunter off quietly.

  60. Phoenix says:

    “Blue collar America does not want to do the low-paying jobs that Mexicans will do.”

    Capitalism dictates the supply demand concept.

    Can’t get a worker, raise rate until worker shows up. Too many workers show up, cut rate.

    Hmm, but you can make more money by exploiting someone and paying less, therefore more profit. Wife gets 2M house, you don’t get a fentanyl laced Moscow Mule.

    It always comes down to money and greed. That is way before baseball, apple pie, Chevrolet.

    Money is the favorite lube of America, it eases things in better than K-Y jelly.

  61. Bystander says:

    We live in crazy times. The Irish tree service comes in 800-1k less than two MX tree services. Maybe people think they will always get a deal.

  62. Libturd says:

    Happy times in the market again as the Boomers try the end around the debt ceiling instead of reducing spending.

  63. Phoenix says:

    One more gas station scene. Funny except that there is an infant in the car. A dope deal, bunch of guys trying to video just a little too close, etc:

    America was always best in the entertainment industry:

    https://youtu.be/X_5f_alO5i0?t=148

  64. Phoenix says:

    Lib

    Boomer is going to dump the debt on Gen Z by the tandem load.

  65. Bystander says:

    Lib, even the Lauren Bobbleheads know where their grandkids fluff sandwiches are made. There was zero chance of default. Pure gamesmanship by Rs still trying to prove they care about debt but only when D in office.

  66. Phoenix says:

    Juice,
    Who drives car #12 Grey Poupon? You know, the driver that crashed into Chanel #5?

    I have been to Sonoma Raceway. That is not exactly red neck country. Perhaps one of the richest areas of the country, the raceway does wine tasting events with the local winerys too.

  67. joyce says:

    “You’re hurting my fetus” 0:26 in the video

  68. Phoenix says:

    Look what it did to us, of course we don’t support it.

    Lauren Boebert has said that she and her husband have similar views on the role of government in citizens’ lives because they both grew up on the welfare system.

  69. ExEx says:

    2:00 NorCal …. hippies with guns.

  70. ExEx says:

    You know the Daily Mail demographic is a UK housewife in her 30s.

  71. Phoenix says:

    It’s always about the money isn’t it. How dare you touch her 400 dollar shirt…

    General Hospital’ star Haley Pullos arrested for DUI after gruesome car crash.

    According to a report seen by the news site, Pullos was unable to exit her car and when firefighters did manage to rescue her she became aggressive, striking one and shouting: ‘This is a $400 f****** shirt.’

    It is alleged that while in hospital she was aggressive and fought hospital staff, before she had to be sedated.

  72. No One says:

    Musk is a visionary thinker, dreams big, and pushes his people to accomplish things. He also is probably the biggest bullshitter in the corporate world. There is a good and bad side to him.
    There are plenty of things Elon Musk thinks that he won’t say. He’ll never say truths that will get his Chinese car plant shut down, for sure. He can talk shit about US politics because that’s protected. It’s interesting that now that he owns twitter and trying to convince companies to advertise, now he’s starting to think buying ads for Tesla might be a good idea. Related party transactions anyone?
    There are definitely people who have created bigger & more profitable businesses than Musk. Fred Smith of Fedex comes to mind. Andy Grove at Intel. Sam Walton. Morris Chang at TSMC. Michael O’Leary of Ryanair, Europe’s largest airline. Google’s co-founders. Amazon’s Bezos. Jack Ma of Alibaba. I’m sure there have been some geniuses in Pharma who I don’t know. Musk reminds me more of Howard Hughes.

  73. No One says:

    NASA hurt itself by committing itself to the Space Shuttle which was a flawed concept from the beginning. But it looked cool and you could fly lots of PR missions with teachers on TV. For getting satellites up in the sky, it was doomed to inefficiency, and going down that failed path was 30 years down a dead end alley.
    The reason I remember it was in high school in 1986, and I wrote a paper for American History class on the topic, citing some science magazine articles. I was supposed to do a presentation on the paper, but in between writing it and doing the presentation, the Challenger exploded, and the teacher didn’t make me do the presentation lest it upset my classmates. (My school was about 55 miles from the space center, and we could watch shuttle launches from outside). Anyway, even before that disaster, which upped costs even more, many scientists wrote about the shuttle being an inefficient way of reaching space, and criticized it as more of a political/PR driven approach rather than a hard-headed decision.

  74. Phoenix says:

    No One,

    I don’t think he really is fully motivated by money- more like its a tool to get things done, and when you want bigger things done you need more money.

    I’d also say he is on the spectrum.

    He also knows how to manipulate the government into making his ventures profitable for him-giving him more fuel for a larger fire.

    Paypal was a government give away. He sold people out for money. He has littered the edges of space with his thousands of satellites. It’s not all good.

    But he is not even close to a Trump, Biden, McConnell or Pelosi in terms of evil.

    He is like a boy in a man’s body growing up and having the money to make his fantasies come true. Like Tom Hanks in Big.

  75. Bystander says:

    Get the kleenex, uhh, ready??

    “Martha Stewart, 81, lands the cover of the Sports Illustrated Swimsuit Edition’

  76. Juice Box says:

    Elon is on the spectrum, and has said so publicly on Saturday Night Live I believe.

    Anyway as far as space competition the closest here is the United Launch Alliance (ULA) formed by Boeing and Lockheed, they said they would go out of business if Elon’s Space X was successful since Boeing and Lockheed’s ULA can no longer charge premium prices for launches. Lots over politics over it during the last decade, basically trying to cancel Elon.

    Even now in 2023 ULA is still charging a 21% premium over Space X for a DoD launch but they still get the business. ULA still uses older technology RL10 engines designed in the 1950s with hydrogen/oxygen powered over kerosene/oxygen like Space X uses. ULA rockets are also not reusable, they don’t land on drone ships.

    Space X has the leg up on everyone so far with DoD launches. As far as NASA’s needs nobody else can even come close in servicing the Space Station’s for launching and retrieval of astronauts if the Russians decide to pull out. Space X has a few spare crew dragon capsules and supply ships built and could do a mission perhaps in a few weeks if needed to rescue astronauts etc. I would not want to be an astronaut up there with no chance of coming home or having to rely on Russia. You would think the sanctions are affecting Russia’s ability for any kind of launch readiness.

  77. Juice Box says:

    Phoenix – Bike Karen lady was seated. Unless there is video otherwise she had it first, you cannot reserve these it is first come first serve.

    Who snapped the QR code to activate the bike and unlock it from the rack? You would have to ask Lyft as it is their e-bike and so far they are not talking. The color codes are on the lock Yellow, Green, Red etc, we don’t see that in the video only the pink Lyft headlight which I believe flashed like it was activated or something.

  78. chicagofinance says:

    left: did you see this?

    You learned a lot at Cornell. And the years since, much from further study, work, and life. But the college application process has changed since we were in high school.

    For an inside perspective on the application process today, join us xxx Cornell’s Office of Undergraduate Admissions will present “College Admissions Today”. This workshop will feature a look into how college applications are reviewed and include tips on completing a strong application. Q & A included. Insights guaranteed!

    This event is free and open to all Cornell alumni of the ‘90s who are related to a current high school student.

  79. Phoenix says:

    Juice,
    Can’t debate what I don’t know.

    I’ll take what you said under advisement. Changing my vote to unknown.

    Let’s see what unfolds. Should be interesting either way.

  80. Phoenix says:

    I’d suggest she starts with providing a sonogram. Then we will know at least that part isn’t a lie and would go far with her credibility.

  81. Juice Box says:

    Phoenix – Didn’t you hear that the media has moved on. The British frog prince and his American princess bride were chased for nearly two hours last night on the streets of Manhattan!!

    Did you hear that a 2 hour car chase in Manhattan! The might had made it from west 54th street to their apartment a couple blocks away!!!

    The Horror!!! It’s like Princess Diana and the paparazzi all over again!!

    https://www.cnn.com/2023/05/17/americas/harry-meghan-car-crash-intl/index.html

  82. ExEx says:

    They’re tedious, Harry and Megham

  83. 1987 Condo says:

    Woops:
    From NJ.com:

    N.J. tax revenues plummet billions below Murphy budget estimate. Are the good times over?

    After an unprecedented two-year surge in state tax revenue, New Jersey’s gravy train is coming to an end.

    The New Jersey Treasury Department says it now expects to collect $1.2 billion less for the fiscal year that ends June 30 than it estimated in February, and its forecast for the new fiscal year is now $1 billion lower than original estimates.

    “Unfortunately, while we expected a decline in April revenues this year when compared to 2022, the returns of April 2023 are necessitating the need to adjust our revenue forecasts downward,” New Jersey Treasurer Elizabeth Muoio said during a state Assembly Budget Committee hearing on Wednesday.

    State tax collections took a nosedive in April, falling more than 14% from last year’s historically high levels, and collections for the current fiscal year came in more than 1% lower when compared with the previous year.

    The reversal was driven by a whopping $1.4 billion decline in gross income tax collections, a major source of revenue for the state that is largely reliant on high-income earners who experienced losses on investments amid a turbulent stock market in 2022.

    “Historically, stock declines have foreshadowed a down year for net gains, and this contributed to the year over year declines in April final payments forecast in the governor’s budget message,” Muoio said.

    Revenue projections from the state’s nonpartisan Office of Legislative Services came in even lower. It now expects New Jersey to collect about $2 billion less over the next two years than it estimated back in March.

  84. Bystander says:

    Anyone know what a stealth derivatives start up is? Theoretically I understand but what is the angle? I have recruiter asking if I am interested in hearing about it.

  85. Juice Box says:

    Bystander.. Stealth startup or stealth derivatives?

    Either sounds like they want to remain hidden from public view. Perhaps for that they want to build some kind of black box to trade derivatives using AI. That I read is hot now.

    But then again still loads of FTX type decentralized crypto derivatives exchange startups around. I would ask if it were crypto for any kind of work.

    There is lots of AI being pitched, for every use under the sun. I had an inquire this week from a recruiter about AI. I laughed and said does watching Watson on Jeopardy count, as that means I have 10 years experience!

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WFR3lOm_xhE

    Anecdotal an IBM friend of mine worked on the Watson project for years as a PM. They probably can write their own ticket these days if they salt in TensorFlow, JAX, SageMaker etc.

  86. The Great Pumpkin says:

    Yup, govt revenue is about to take a bat to the head in every single state.

    1987 Condo says:
    May 17, 2023 at 5:00 pm
    Woops:
    From NJ.com

  87. The Great Pumpkin says:

    Elon Musk: Working from home is ‘morally wrong’ when service workers still have to show up

    KEY POINTS
    Elon Musk called Silicon Valley engineers a part of “laptop classes living in la-la land” and said they should get off “their moral high horse work-from-home bulls***.”

    Musk made the comments in an interview with CNBC’s David Faber, and said that his objections went beyond productivity concerns and extended to “moral” issues.

  88. The Great Pumpkin says:

    I love this guy!! Calls it how it is!!

  89. The Great Pumpkin says:

    So, when is the FED pivot? This summer or next year?

  90. The Great Pumpkin says:

    People like me are buying companies like DNA for a swing at generational wealth.

    “Wealth isn’t born in a Bull Market, it’s forged in the fire of a Bear Market.”

  91. Bystander says:

    Thanks Juice. I posted exactly what recruiter stated. He mentioned Interest rates experience but did not follow up bc unclear on arrangement. May inquire

  92. BRT says:

    Why would they pivot or even pause? The market has rallied and inflation is still too high. You have no justification to lower interest rates right now. Market? No. Inflation at or near 2%? No. Unemployment? No.

  93. BRT says:

    lol, thieves hit up Short Hills Mall. They better be careful. The politicians usually draw the line when you start to hit the neighborhoods of their friends.

  94. Juice Box says:

    Bystander – Keep in mind crypto folks still think they are tied to interest rates too like futures on CME. If it is crypto a hard choice, sentiment is however negative on crypto.

    If it is AI it’s well sentiment is really red red hot….JAX ext get to know it and tell em you are studying, pick up a dummies book etc there is nobody really with experience.

    Meanwhile remember my advice is worthless as I won’t pay your bills, so set your own path.

  95. Juice Box says:

    BRT – So go long mall companies? Will there be another reboot of mall rats?

  96. Phoenix says:

    A bit of history I never knew.

    Thanks to a few snobs whose “MarconiGrams” were more important than a message about icebergs, the Titanic hit one and sank. Karma I guess.

    Well, just like the guys on Pearl Harbor, the other radio operator just said F it, I’m going to bed. Oh well.

    “By late afternoon, the SS Californian had sent messages regarding “much heavy pack ice and great number large icebergs.” Alas, Captain Smith never received those later messages, apparently because an overworked Phillips was frantically trying to catch up on passenger marconigrams after a breakdown of the equipment the day before. In fact, Phillips’ response to the Californian’s final warning was a frustrated, “Shut up! Shut up! I’m working Cape Race!” (referring to the relay station at Cape Race, Newfoundland). The Californian’s radio operator then shut the system down for the night and retired to quarters.”

  97. Phoenix says:

    When Willie Sutton was asked “why do you rob banks,” he replied, because that is where the money is..

    BRT says:
    May 17, 2023 at 10:12 pm
    lol, thieves hit up Short Hills Mall. They better be careful. The politicians usually draw the line when you start to hit the neighborhoods of their friends.

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